Transcript of Hungary Hearing

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 1 of 42
[Page 1] UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ---------------------------------------------ROSALIE SIMON, et al Plaintiffs, vs. THE REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY, MAGYARALLAMVASUTAK Art, and RAIL CARGO HUNGARIA Zrt Defendants. Case No: 1:10-cv--01770-BAH ----------------------------------------------------Hearing of Laszlo Csatary Hearing in Hungarian conducted through the Interpreter At the: Buda Kozponti Keruleti Birosag Budakeszi ut 51/B 1021 Budapest Hungary on: Tuesday, 4th June, 2013, at 9:00 a.m.
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[Page 2] APPEARANCES: For Plaintiffs: Mr. Charles S. Fax with Mr. Andras Hanak Rifkind, Livingston, Levitan & Silver 7879 Old Georgetown Road, Suite 400 Bethesda, Maryland 20814 (301) 951-0150 cfax@rlls.com
For the Defendants: Mr. Konrad Lee Cailteux Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP 767 Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10153-0119 (212) 310-8904 konrad.cailteux@weil.com Laszlo Istvan Nagy Amber Christina Wessels Laszlo Nanyista Virag Heinzellmann Aniko Fazekas - Legal Advisor, Ministry of Development
Also Present: Maria Mesterhazy-Kostic - Interpreter Kay Hendrick - Court Reporter
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(9:00 a.m. Tuesday, 4th June 2013) The proeedings were conducted through the Interpreter Maria Mesterhazy Kosticne
JUDGE KERI:
The lady is present here on
behalf of the Court in the US, so it is just -- the situation is just like the one we have in Hungary when a recorder of the Hungarian court records the proceeding of the hearing we are hearing. Once we are
talking about the recording of voice and pictures, let me say that according to the rules effective in Hungarian courts, it is only the members of the court who can be recorded in pictures and voice. Recording
about the rest of the people present here can be done only if they give their approval to it. Is there
anyone who wouldn't like -- who would like to challenge the case, to challenge recording of voice and pictures in any way? So do all present -- do all
those who are present here approve of that? (Agreement by all present) And the answer has been positive. The Judge
records it now for the purposes of the minutes so that all people present here approve of being recorded, of being their voices and pictures recorded.
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Could I have the ID cards and passports of one person on both sides, please, and then the Judge will inform you about the contents of a document about the health status of the person to be heard. On the basis of the Hungarian prosecutor law witnesses normally don't turn up when accompanied by their legal representative because witnesses are asked about their experiences, what they themselves have seen or experienced or lived through. However, with
the Treaty of the Hague, on the basis of which this hearing is taking place, it is possible that the witness should have a legal representative as well. The legal representative is the gentleman who is present here and he is authorized to give any statement in this regard with the exception of the statement to be given by the witness, because obviously he was not present when the events asked about took place. The first question raised to this gentleman was exactly the question that you have asked before: "Couldn't you have informed us about this somewhat earlier please?" Medical documentation contains personal data and information. However, we may say that on 27th May
he was admitted to the hospital and this may be stated
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without violating any personal rights. hospital? MR HORVATH:
Is he in the
No, he is not there any more. From the medical
He is staying at home right now.
certificate you can see that it was not just having a cold. JUDGE KERI: Can't you see any possibility
or opportunity for hearing him? MR HORVATH: Well, today I am afraid -It was negative.
THE INTERPRETER: MR HORVATH:
People who are nursing him sent
this document to me this morning and they said that he was not -- his health status was not up to it. condition was not proper for a hearing. JUDGE KERI: If the hearing took place in His
his home there wouldn't be so many people present. Four people could just go there. MR HORVATH: minute for it, please? (Mr Horvath left the courtroom) MR FAX: Your Honor, may I ask a question? The language of this hearing is I can ask him, but can I have a
JUDGE KERI:
Hungarian, so please, I understand what you ask but please use the Interpreter. MR FAX: I would like to ask if the attorney
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could identify himself on-the record with his name and his address and telephone number and e-mail. JUDGE KERI: His ID card is right here so
could I ask for your kind patience for a minute and right away I will record his particulars. (Pause) Dr
Gabor Horvath is the name of his legal representative, his lawyer. (Mr Horvath returned to the courtroom) MR HORVATH: For the time being they say
that he is not in the condition which would be adequate, neither from the physical aspect and from the intellectual aspect either. MR FAX: few questions? JUDGE KERI: MR FAX: You can ask. Your Honor, may I ask the witness a
I would like to ask, if I may, the
witness a few questions? THE INTERPRETER: Representative you mean? MR FAX: Yes. I am afraid I will not be able To the Legal
MR HORVATH: to answer. MR FAX: today. MR HORVATH:
No, no, about the circumstances
Right.
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MR FAX:
Did he say "yes"? "Right", he said. Yes.
MR HORVATH:
Mr Gabor Horvath Examined by Mr Fax MR FAX: Am I correct that the witness,
Mr Laszlo Csatary, is under custody of the police? MR HORVATH: his home. MR FAX: home? MR HORVATH: week. MR FAX: When he went to the hospital on No, he is checked once in a Is there a police guard at the Now he is forbidden to leave
May 27th did the police go with him? MR HORVATH: MR FAX: No.
Were the police notified? As far as I know he informed
MR HORVATH: the police, yes. MR FAX:
He personally informed the police
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or the police were informed by somebody else? MR HORVATH: I don't know about that. It
was not me who informed them for sure. MR FAX: To the best of his understanding
was that done on May 27th? MR HORVATH: MR FAX: I don't know.
Were the police informed, to the
attorneys knowledge, when Mr Csatary went back from the hospital to his home? MR HORVATH: Court. MR FAX: The police was notified -The police was informed or The police was notified by the
THE INTERPRETER:
notified by the Court, he said. MR FAX: By the Court of what? The Central District Court of
MR HORVATH:
Buda, the Judge responsible for the investigation. JUDGE KERI: Because there is also a penal
procedure that he is the subject of. MR FAX: Right. So the Court was notified
that Mr Csatary was in the hospital and then had been released from the hospital? MR HORVATH: No, there is no need for
permission to be issued by the Judge to do that. MR FAX: Right. I am just asking whether
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the Court was notified, was told? MR HORVATH: MR FAX: No, it is not necessary.
But the police were told? Yes, of course they were,
MR HORVATH:
because the police checks him once in a week so they have to be informed. MR FAX: So when did Mr Csatary go back from
the hospital to his home? MR HORVATH: this precisely. MR FAX: days? MR HORVATH: home for a day or two. MR FAX: Has the attorney personally visited As far as I know he has been at Has he been there at home for a few I don't know. I don't know
him at home since Mr Csatary went home from the hospital? MR HORVATH: MR FAX: No, I didn't.
So how did the attorney get a
notice from the nurse that Mr Csatary was unable to be here today? MR HORVATH: Last night they gave me a ring
on the phone and this morning they forwarded these documents. MR FAX: I see. By facsimile?
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MR HORVATH: MR FAX: this note? MR HORVATH: certification? MR FAX:
No, they brought in person.
And this is a nurse who has written
You mean the medical
Yes. I am afraid I have no idea. I
MR HORVATH:
didn't look into it in quite some details. it may be the doctor who attends to him. JUDGE KERI:
I presume
Let me interrupt for a second. This has been
There is a medical certification.
completed by the hospital, and a document which has been submitted. This was signed by Mr Csatary
himself, and in this document there is a statement in writing. In this one he refers to the subject areas I haven't been
that are covered by the questions.
able to read it through myself either, but according to my initial perception these are references to some events that happened in 1944. Right now we have this
single copy but we can give copies of this document to the parties concerned. MR FAX: May I ask what his medical
condition is that prevents him from being here this morning? JUDGE KERI: Would the Legal Representative
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provide us with some accurate answers to this? MR HORVATH: I don't know anything more than
the contents which are figured there in writing. JUDGE KERI: Because he has been referred to A weakness
the hospital by the following statement:
of the extremities and uncertain -- unsure -uncertain ability to walk. I think these are the
phenomenona that we could avoid if we heard him in his home. MR FAX: I mean that would certainly be
agreeable to us, your Honor. JUDGE KERI: question: Then let me ask the following
Those who are here and do not come from
Hungary, how long do you stay here still, how many days do you spend here? MR FAX: I have a return flight tomorrow
morning but I could change it. MR CAILTEUX: tomorrow morning. JUDGE KERI: I think the costs have been We also have a return flight
quite enough on both sides so if we could go there and hear him the day after tomorrow. MR HORVATH: Well, I was told that it will
be possible in the second half of the week. JUDGE KERI: But the Legal Representative is
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uncertain about it. THE INTERPRETER: As far as I am concerned I
am open to the idea of going there, says the Judge. JUDGE KERI: Nevertheless, irrespective of
this, we may even be faced with the situation that either on Thursday or Friday the witness may feel sick. MR FAX: Perhaps -- apparently the witness
has given us a written statement, if we could have a chance once it is copied to review the statement that may give us a better basis on which to make an evaluation. JUDGE KERI: generated. In a minute a copy will be Then I think Do
The paper is in Hungarian.
we do not have any more questions to be raised. you, Mr Legal Representative? MR HORVATH: Should I by all means
communicate that providing still in this week? JUDGE KERI: MR FAX: Well, let's wait for a while.
I just have one more question, if I Without asking the contents of
may to the attorney.
any conversation, since Mr Csatary went into the hospital until now has the attorney spoken directly to Mr Csatary? MR HORVATH: No, I didn't. I communicated,
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or I spoke only with his nurses, nurses and people who provide care for him or look after him. MR FAX: If I may ask before he went into
the hospital when was the last time that you were able to speak to Mr Csatary? MR HORVATH: Well, when we were at a hearing
at the Office of Prosecution responsible for investigations when we had the last -- when we had a hearing there I met him. MR FAX: And when was that? It was some time in the middle
MR HORVATH:
of May but I am afraid I cannot tell you the precise date right now. MR FAX: In the middle of May? In the middle of May. The
MR HORVATH:
documents were presented this week at the Office of Prosecution responsible for investigations. Yesterday
they began to do it but he couldn't turn up there either. JUDGE KERI: And would he have any
obligation to be present at an event of a similar kind related to the case, to the penal case that he is the subject of? MR FAX: Sorry, I misunderstood. Mr Csatary
is obligated to be at the hearing or not?
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MR HORVATH:
You mean at the hearing where
he is a suspect, where a suspect is heard? MR FAX: Yes. Yes, of course. It's natural.
MR HORVATH: JUDGE KERI:
This is why I have asked
whether perhaps it would be possible that we joined in either before or after the hearing? MR FAX: Which is scheduled when? Well, I am afraid what happens
MR HORVATH:
this week will be the presentation of documents, that is the contents of some documents will be presented and on that occasion he is not obliged to be present. JUDGE KERI: Could I have the following
proposal, because I have the perception that Mr Csatary's health condition is rather uncertain, so let me ask if we tried to find or identify a new date it is natural, everyone has the right to use legal representation from abroad, but then it is clear that substantial costs which may not be necessary could come up if legal representatives come here, so everybody to send his Hungarian representative to be present and then we would shorten the option that has been stated by the Treaty of the Hague, because it happens in such a manner that the Ministry is the central legal authority and they mediate, the Ministry
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mediates between the two parties -- sorry, excuse me -- between the two courts. This means that only once in a month, that is monthly, we can identify a new date, this is the minimum, so that the notifications in the US should take place, should happen as well, and if Mr Csatary indicated that his health status is adequate then right away we could go there within a shorter deadline involving the representatives who can be mobilized in Hungary. This has been a proposal. It is natural
that if you adhered or stick to the idea then we would identify a new date which then can be the beginning of July at the earliest or in September. to decide about this right now. MR FAX: We don't have
You can consider it.
First of all I want to thank the I
Court very much for your efforts and your ideas.
would like to read his statement which probably will help guide us in our decision. JUDGE KERI: Right. And on the side of the
defence, the Defendants' side? MR CAILTEUX: I think we also would like to
read the statement but then perhaps if you could take a short break in the proceedings to be able to do that. JUDGE KERI: In a minute. We will wait for
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the colleague to return to have the copies. MR CAILTEUX: Thank you. We would also like
to thank the Court for the assistance that it has given. I think, at least momentarily, your suggestion
about trying to set up a new date mobilizing, at least the Hungarian attorneys that we have present here, may well be acceptable to us. JUDGE KERI: Right. Then we will wait for
my colleague to deliver the copies and during the break you can study its contents. MR FAX: Thank you. It will be in Hungarian so you
JUDGE KERI:
will need to use the assistance of your colleagues. It can be explained when referring to this document that he denies these events, he denies stated facts. I don't know whether the Legal Representative has read the questions? MR HORVATH: JUDGE KERI: persons. Yes. The first 19 refer to these
I don't think he denies his position. MR HORVATH: As far as his position is
concerned it is also a subject of a debate in the penal procedure. JUDGE KERI: You should be given a copy.
There are three defendants so the three of you who are
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sitting here would like to have copies. THE INTERPRETER: The gentleman refers to
the four names who represent the Defendant of the first instance and that of the second instance, some representative state and Magyar, the Hungarian railway company. And Rail Cargo Hungaria, a closed joint
stock company is also represented, they represent the Defendant of the third instance. JUDGE KERI: For the purposes of the minutes
we have all the names on the list and if you wish you can have a copy of those. MR FAX: In terms of the Plaintiffs'
judgment regarding another hearing I will probably have to consult with my co-counsel, so I may or may not be able to provide an answer right now after looking at the -JUDGE KERI: Yes, it is natural. Besides
the question of when you can come again the most important question is whether Mr Csatary will be in a condition which is adequate for a hearing. He can not
refuse the hearing, but he could by a medical certification he could prove or he could make his answer effective. MR FAX: Do I understand that the written
statement that is being photocopied now was written by
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Mr Csatary? JUDGE KERI: This is a document which was It was -- the text was
generated by a computer.
entered in a computer and has been signed by Mr Csatary. MR FAX: Ah, thank you. As far as the questions are
JUDGE KERI:
concerned I presume that the defence have also studied the questions. There is an error in the translation
because the list of questions was referred to in the text as questions of the person charged, or for the person charged who is not charged yet because this is not a penal procedure right now. THE INTERPRETER: procedure, she said. But this is not a penal
This is a procedure being
conducted according to the civil code, civilian. MR HANAK: If I may, the are not criminal
defendants, they are defendants in a civil procedure. JUDGE KERI: break now? Thank you. Shall we have a
How long should it be? MR FAX: 10 minutes. Is that enough for the
JUDGE KERI: translation? MR CAILTEUX: MR FAX:
15. I'm with Konrad.
Fifteen is fine.
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JUDGE KERI: o'clock.
We shall carry on at 10.00
THE INTERPRETER:
The Legal Representative
is asking whether he is needed any more, and the Judge is asking whether anyone would have any more questions raised to him. MR FAX: I don't think so, your Honor. The Judge records that
THE INTERPRETER:
there are no further questions to be raised to the Legal Representative of the witness and his presence at the -- in the proceedings is not needed any more now. MR FAX: Thank you. If there is a new date shall we
MR HORVATH:
receive a new notification? JUDGE KERI: MR HANAK: Yes, of course. Right at the very beginning a
very narrow circle of people could go to see him even today, so this would be the third option. JUDGE KERI: there today. MR FAX: Yes. The only question is whether It seems all concerned could go
JUDGE KERI:
Mr Csatary can receive us. MR HORVATH: He spoke with the person
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looking after him now and he said, this person said that for the time being he is not in a suitable position for this, a suitable condition --sorry, a suitable condition. MR FAX: copy of this? Fax) Excuse me, could I get one more (Handed to Mr
Are you out of copies?
Thank you. JUDGE KERI: Does he consider tomorrow as a
suitable date or time for the hearing? MR HORVATH: No, they said that they were
going to examine this afternoon as well and then they will see. JUDGE KERI: But in this way it seems to be
quite certain, so that now we are not able to identify a new date. MR FAX: Will counsel report back to the
Court after the examination this afternoon, because I don't understand what happens? JUDGE KERI: No, he doesn't have to. When a
witness has excused himself with a medical document then he can not be sanctioned. MR FAX: No, I didn't ask about sanctions. I have asked this question only
JUDGE KERI:
because if he were in a better condition right now maybe this afternoon he could be seen.
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MR FAX:
I understand.
So my question is
will we get information about that later? MR HORVATH: This afternoon if it is late I
cannot inform the Court any more today, but tomorrow morning I can give them a ring. JUDGE KERI: This would mean that if in the
near future there would be a hearing it could take place in his home. MR HORVATH: another minute. JUDGE KERI: Yes, please do. I think we Excuse me, then I sit for
will have some information about this tomorrow morning at the earliest. This means we can not overlook the
order of procedure which is prescribed to us by the Treaty of the Hague. But then could I ask the lady
who is present here on behalf of the court in the US how long are you staying here? COURT REPORTER: 5.15. JUDGE KERI: So I don't see some very great My flight is tomorrow at
chances for having another proceedings like this. MR FAX: I have one question, if I may, I am told that on page 1, number
about the statement.
1, it's the second page but page 1, in bold letters above the date 1942 I understand that Mr Csatary
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states in Hungarian that he does not wish to testify and that this is going to be his only statement -- and that this is going to be his only statement. THE INTERPRETER: MR FAX: what he is saying. THE INTERPRETER: JUDGE KERI: says. MR FAX: And that is what it says? That he doesn't intend to give I understand. You are asking?
I am stating, I am paraphrasing
This is what the Hungarian text
JUDGE KERI: an oral statement. MR FAX: statement? MR NAGY: MR FAX:
And that this is his only
That is not there. What does it say? "It is not my intention to
THE INTERPRETER:
give an oral statement and I give the statement below." MR FAX: Okay. Fine. Thank you. My
question to counsel is, is that his understanding regarding his client's position? JUDGE KERI: If you can communicate about
this with your client because then you could tell us whether this was his intention.
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MR FAX:
In other words, what I am really
getting at is assuming that we were to reconvene, we are all together, Mr Csatary appears, would we get any more information than he has already provided? MR HORVATH: I spoke with a person looking
after him and he said that he interpreted this in the following way, he has obligation to be present but he is not obliged to give a statement. JUDGE KERI: His presence when he turns up
this is voluntary, this is what the duty of the Hague says. It is also a fact that the procedure has to
take place according to the Hungarian law, but the Hungarian process of law has to be observed and used in this procedure. This means that the witness can be
sanctioned if he doesn't come, with the exception if he supports his reason for not turning up with a medical document, with a medical certification which reflects that he couldn't come. MR FAX: So is it the attorney's
understanding that if we were to reconvene and Mr Csatary were well enough to appear, and he did appear, nevertheless, he would not testify beyond the written statement that he has already provided? MR HORVATH: I don't know this, but it is
highly probable that he would state or explain the
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contents which figure here in writing. JUDGE KERI: Mr Legal Representative, do you
also represent Mr Csatary in the penal procedure? MR HORVATH: Yes, I do. I am his Legal
Representative ordered to do that by the Hungarian State. The document of the case covers several
thousand pages. JUDGE KERI: Couldn't we replace the hearing
by the following, that the Court in the penal proceedings would make available quite some parts of the documentation of the case which we already have in writing. I also have some information in person about
the fact that he was heard very many times in the scope of the penal proceedings. The Judge knows in
person that he was heard several times in the scope of the penal proceedings and the investigation has been concluded. MR FAX: Are those documents that are
publicly available, are they available to us? JUDGE KERI: No, they aren't. It can be
made available upon the action taken by the Court in the US acting in the scope of this case, in the scope of legal aid. That is if the Court asked for legal
assistance or a legal aid then in the scope of this legal aid or assistance it can be made available. The
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claimants themselves cannot look into it but -- sorry, the claimants themselves cannot do this, excuse me, but if the Court in the US applies for it, this in the scope of legal assistance or legal aid they can do that. MR FAX: Meaning that the court in Hungary
will release the documents to the court in the United States? JUDGE KERI: I cannot give you a firm answer
to this question right now because I am not a judge in penal proceedings, but I know that in the legal civilian procedures these functions among countries of the European Union and among other countries beyond that as well. MR FAX: Pursuant to the Hague Convention? Yes, given the fact that in
MR HORVATH:
relation to the US it is only the Treaty of the Hague that can be effective in this context. MR FAX: That may work. Yes.
It may.
JUDGE KERI: patience for a minute? MR FAX:
Could I ask for your kind
Of course. I think it would be more
JUDGE KERI: expedient. MR HORVATH:
Let me note that right now the
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documents stay with the Office of Prosecution and will remain there for 60 days. JUDGE KERI: wrong information. 6-0.
I wouldn't like you to have the
Legal aid in commercial and
civilian and commercial cases, this is also the title of the Treaty of the Hague. We can think of the
option regarding penal cases there is a Treaty as well, but right now I cannot give a statement regarding this, I mean regarding whether there is one or there isn't. According to the opinion of Mr Legal
Representative, but in relation to Canada as well, such an agreement was used but this is also contained in the documents of the Prosecution Office. MR NAGY: Can the court see any chance for
the civilian court contacting the penal court on this matter, because if there is a parallel penal procedure there may be an option for acquiring some documents from the penal court. civilian court. JUDGE KERI: The minutes are about the This could be done by the
hearing of Mr Csatary as a suspect in the penal procedure, so the document would be about his hearing as a suspect because there he was a suspect which took place in the penal procedure. This was suggested,
this was raised -- this idea was raised by the Legal
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Representative of the Defendant. We can also think of the option that I contact the authority acting in this case. They will
look for the documents and then involving the Ministry as well. This could be mailed to the Court in the US
and then the parties would read those and then after that they could decide whether there is any more information that seems to be missing still. Then you
can have some further requests as well but, indeed, there have been quite a number of hearings and it is also possible that these aspects have already been revealed. Mr Legal Representative has also said that his position, his post at that time was also a topic in the penal process. One of the key points of that
penal procedure is that he was in command, whether he was a commander there or whether he was just a simple officer in position. MR HORVATH: And I think regarding questions
of this kind there are some exhaustive answers in the minutes of the hearing which took place there. JUDGE KERI: 15 to 20 pages each. By hearing, the minutes cover Can we please have a break so we
can read the paper because those speaking English may not have the chance to look into it properly, it is 10
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past 10 right now? MR NAGY: We will need 20 minutes for sure
so shall we meet at half past? JUDGE KERI: MR FAX: Fine.
Sure. On the ground floor you can
JUDGE KERI:
have a glass of water or a cup of coffee perhaps. MR FAX: Thank you. (Short Recess) JUDGE KERI: the list available. I have made copies available of This is a list of names who
represent which party, but we will make corrections in it. THE INTERPRETER: some corrections. JUDGE KERI: a question. Proceeding forward I would have The lady has indicated
Unfortunately Mr Legal Representative is
not present any more but it is possible that the parties present have also noticed this just like I did. Mr Csatary's name is spelt in a special manner
because one time it ends in a "Y" and another time it ends in an "I". Under his signature which figures at
the end of his statement it is spelt with an "I" but in his own signature we can find a "Y" at the end of his name, because at this court there is also a penal
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process which is conducted against him, but within my own scope of authorization I can also check the right spelling of his name as well. And from now on I would be pleased to hear your response to my suggestion, because you initiated the hearing of the witness. So this kind of
information provided via the documents, would you consider this sufficient -- could I please request for your kind patience for a second because the lady here has just indicated to me that because of the loud voice in the back it cannot be heard well. MR FAX: Thank you, your Honor, again for
your consideration and for your diligence and work in this matter. During the break defence counsel had the
opportunity to read the statement, translated into English, and we also on behalf of the Plaintiffs reviewed the statement translated into English. After
each side had read the statement I met with defence counsel, Mr Cailteux representing defendants Hungary and MAV, and Miss Wessels, representing Defendant Rail Cargo Hungaria, and we discussed the next steps. agreed that from a practical standpoint it seemed highly unlikely that Mr Csatary would appear tomorrow and so we agreed to indicate to the Court that we are comfortable suspending this proceeding after today's We
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hearing. I indicated to each lawyer that from the Plaintiffs standpoint I do not want to totally surrender the opportunity to examine Mr Csatary in this court, so as a procedural matter I would like to reserve the right, if deemed appropriate at a later point, to request that we reconvene. However, as a
practical matter all three of us agreed that the discussion that the Court conducted before the break concerning the possibility of obtaining access to the record of the criminal examinations might be the most effective way to complete this process. I understood that the Court indicated that you might be prepared to request the documentation from the criminal authorities and then release it to us or, perhaps, make it available to us on a confidential basis, and all counsel are in agreement that this process sounds reasonable, it sounds like what we should do, and in order to assist you in that process if you would like I could issue another letter rogatory through the Federal Judge in Washington? THE INTERPRETER: Washington? MR FAX: To the Court in Washington. And in To or on behalf of
the letters rogatory ask the Court to ask you for
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production of those documents on one basis or another. Would that be an acceptable procedure? JUDGE KERI: Yes, I think that this would be
the most sensible -- most sensible mode of procedure, and it is important to clarify that parties cannot have such a request. It is only the Court initiating
the procedure which can make this step. MR FAX: Yes. Mr Counsel has just mentioned
JUDGE KERI:
that you have reconciled but let me, nevertheless, ask the Defendants side do you agree with this procedure, proposal? MR CAILTEUX: On behalf of MAV and Hungary
we have no objection to the procedure. MS WESSELS: On behalf of Rail Cargo
Hungaria we have no objections. JUDGE KERI: I would have one more question.
First we would acquire, collect the documents and in the meantime, if my understanding is right, let us not notify Mr Csatary again because we can also think of the option that the documents would be sufficient enough, or would you ask it right away now, that is to say to identify a new date? MR FAX: no. I do not think that's necessary,
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JUDGE KERI:
Right.
I, too, believe that it
is more reasonable, more sensible to study it first and in case you asked for it, nevertheless, then the order of the procedure will have to be followed and observed still, so via the court initiating the process because also the Court has the opportunity to send anyone who should be present at these proceedings, in other words it will not be avoided. Then I think this is the agreement between the parties, and the next step will be made at the time when we receive notification or a request to establish contact from the Court in the United States. MR FAX: Yes. Thank you very much. Is there
JUDGE KERI:
anyone who would like to present something, say or raise something? MR CAILTEUX: If I may, your Honor, I would
just like to thank you for taking the time to hear us. If only the courts in the United States was as efficient as you. THE INTERPRETER: part. MR CAILTEUX: I wanted to thank her and say I did not hear the last
if only courts in the United States were as efficient as her.
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JUDGE KERI: very sufficient. MR CAILTEUX:
Unfortunately we have not been
It is "efficient". We have not been very
THE INTERPRETER: efficient.
Accept my apologies, please. JUDGE KERI: Because we cannot just stand
up, gather together and go over to Mr Csatary's place and hear him there, so unfortunately today we have not been able to hear him. The minutes will be mailed by The
the Ministry to all parties concerned as well. proceedings have been recorded in the minutes
comprehensively so I sincerely hope that nothing has been missed. Irrespective of this according to the
order of procedures in Hungarian court proceedings the parties still have the right to suggest some corrections or give some remarks regarding the contents. Thank you very much for being here. MR FAX: Thank you, your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.
MR CAILTEUX:
(Off the record at 11:00 a.m.) ------ooo------
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CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER
I, KAY HENDRICK, a Real-time Reporter of London, England, hereby certify that the testimony of the
witness LASZLO CSATARY in the foregoing transcript, taken on Tuesday, June 4th 2013, was
recorded by me in machine shorthand and was thereafter transcribed by me; and that the foregoing
transcript is a true and accurate verbatim record of the said testimony.
7 8
I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, counsel or financially involved with any
of the parties to the within cause, nor am I an employee or relative of any counsel for the parties,
10
nor am I in any way interested in the outcome of the within cause.
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Signed:
........................ KAY HENDRICK
Dated:
June 10th 2013
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A a.m 1:21 3:2 33:21 ability 11:7 able 6:21 10:17 13:4 15:23 17:15 20:14 33:9 abroad 14:18 Accept 33:5 acceptable 16:7 31:2 access 30:10 accompanied 4:6 accurate 11:1 34:6 acquire 31:18 acquiring 26:17 acting 24:22 27:3 action 24:21 address 6:2 adequate 6:11 15:7 17:20 adhered 15:11 admitted 4:25 Advisor 2:16 afraid 5:9 6:21 10:7 13:12 14:9 afternoon 20:11,17,25 21:3 agree 31:11 agreeable 11:11 agreed 29:22,24 30:8 agreement 3:21 26:12 30:17 32:9 Ah 18:6 aid 24:23,24,25 25:4 26:4 al 1:3 Amber 2:14 Andras 2:3 Aniko 2:16 answer 3:22 6:22 17:15,23 25:9 answers 11:1 27:20 apologies 33:5 apparently 12:8 appear 23:21,22 29:23 APPEARANCES 2:1 appears 23:3 applies 25:3 appropriate 30:6 approval 3:16 approve 3:20,24 areas 10:15 Art 1:6 asked 4:7,17,20 14:5 20:23 24:23 32:3 asking 8:25 12:21 19:4,5 22:4 aspect 6:11,12 aspects 27:11 assist 30:19 assistance 16:3,13 24:24,25 25:4 assuming 23:2 attends 10:9 attorney 5:25 9:15,19 12:21 12:23 attorney's 23:19 attorneys 8:8 16:6 authorities 30:15 authority 14:25 27:3 authorization 29:2 authorized 4:14 available 24:10,19,19,21,25 28:10,11 30:16 Avenue 2:11 avoid 11:8 avoided 32:8 Canada 26:11 card 6:3 cards 4:1 care 13:2 Cargo 1:7 17:6 29:21 31:15 carry 19:1 case 1:8 3:18 13:22,22 24:6 24:11,22 27:3 32:3 cases 26:5,7 cause 34:9,10 central 8:16 14:25 certain 20:14 certainly 11:10 certificate 5:5 34:1 certification 10:5,11 17:22 23:17 certify 34:3,8 cfax@rlls.com 2:6 challenge 3:18,18 chance 12:10 26:14 27:25 chances 21:21 change 11:17 charged 18:11,12,12 Charles 2:3 B check 29:2 back 8:8 9:7 20:16 29:11 checked 7:17 basis 4:5,10 12:11 30:17 31:1 checks 9:5 began 13:18 Christina 2:14 beginning 15:12 19:17 circle 19:18 behalf 3:7 21:16 29:16 30:22 circumstances 6:23 31:13,15 civil 18:16,18 believe 32:1 civilian 18:16 25:12 26:5,15 best 8:4 26:19 Bethesda 2:5 claimants 25:1,2 better 12:11 20:24 clarify 31:5 beyond 23:22 25:13 clear 14:18 Birosag 1:16 client 22:24 bold 21:24 client's 22:22 break 15:23 16:10 18:20 closed 17:6 27:23 29:14 30:9 co-counsel 17:14 brought 10:1 code 18:16 Buda 1:15 8:17 coffee 28:7 Budakeszi 1:17 cold 5:6 Budapest 1:18 colleague 16:1,9 colleagues 16:13 C collect 31:18 Cailteux 2:10 11:18 15:21 COLUMBIA 1:1 16:2 18:24 29:19 31:13 come 11:13 14:20,20 17:18 32:17,23 33:3,20 23:15,18
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comfortable 29:25 command 27:16 commander 27:17 commercial 26:4,5 communicate 12:18 22:23 communicated 12:25 company 17:6,7 complete 30:12 completed 10:12 comprehensively 33:12 computer 18:3,4 concerned 10:21 12:2 16:22 18:8 19:20 33:10 concerning 30:10 concluded 24:17 condition 5:14 6:10 10:23 14:15 17:20 20:3,4,24 conducted 1:12 3:3 18:16 29:1 30:9 confidential 30:17 consider 15:14 20:8 29:8 consideration 29:13 consult 17:14 contact 27:3 32:12 contacting 26:15 contained 26:12 contains 4:23 contents 4:3 11:3 12:21 14:11 16:10 24:1 33:17 context 25:18 Convention 25:15 conversation 12:22 copied 12:10 copies 10:20 16:1,9 17:1 20:6 28:10 copy 10:20 12:13 16:24 17:11 20:6 correct 7:11 corrections 28:12,15 33:16 costs 11:20 14:19 counsel 20:16 22:21 29:14,19 30:17 31:9 34:8,9 countries 25:12,13 course 9:4 14:4 19:16 25:22 court 1:1 2:20 3:7,9,13 8:11 8:14,15,16,20 9:1 15:16 16:3 20:17 21:4,16,18 24:9 24:21,23 25:3,6,7 26:14,15 26:15,18,19 27:5 28:25 29:24 30:5,9,13,24,25 31:6 32:5,6,12 33:14 34:1 courtroom 5:20 6:8 courts 3:13 15:2 32:19,24 cover 27:22 covered 10:16 covers 24:6 criminal 18:17 30:11,15 Csatary 1:11 7:12 8:8,21 9:7 9:16,20 10:13 12:22,24 13:5 13:24 15:6 17:19 18:1,5 19:24 21:25 23:3,21 24:3 26:21 29:23 30:4 31:20 34:4 Csatary's 14:15 28:20 33:7 cup 28:7 custody 7:12 D data 4:23 date 13:13 14:16 15:4,12 16:5 19:14 20:9,15 21:25 31:23 Dated 34:17 day 9:14 11:22 days 9:12 11:15 26:2 deadline 15:8 debate 16:22 decide 15:14 27:7 decision 15:18 deemed 30:6 defence 15:20 18:8 29:14,18 Defendant 17:3,8 27:1 29:20 defendants 1:7 2:9 15:20 16:25 18:18,18 29:19 31:11 deliver 16:9 denies 16:15,15,20 details 10:8 Development 2:16 diligence 29:13 directly 12:23 discussed 29:21 discussion 30:9 District 1:1,1 8:16 doctor 10:9 document 4:3 5:12 10:12,14 10:20 16:14 18:2 20:20 23:17 24:6 26:22 documentation 4:23 24:11 30:14 documents 9:24 13:16 14:10 14:11 24:18 25:7 26:1,13,17 27:4 29:7 31:1,18,21 Dr 6:5 duty 23:10 E e-mail 6:2 earlier 4:22 earliest 15:13 21:13 effective 3:12 17:23 25:18 30:12 efficient 32:20,24 33:3,5 efforts 15:16 either 6:12 10:17 12:6 13:19 14:7 employee 34:8,9 ends 28:21,22 England 34:3 English 27:24 29:16,17 entered 18:4 error 18:9 establish 32:11 et 1:3 European 25:13 evaluation 12:12 event 13:21 events 4:17 10:19 16:15 everybody 14:21 exactly 4:20 examination 20:17 examinations 30:11 examine 20:11 30:4 Examined 7:10 exception 4:15 23:15 excuse 15:1 20:5 21:9 25:2 excused 20:20 exhaustive 27:20 expedient 25:24 experienced 4:9 experiences 4:8 explain 23:25 explained 16:14 extremities 11:6 F faced 12:5 facsimile 9:25
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fact 23:11 24:13 25:16 facts 16:15 far 7:23 9:13 12:2 16:21 18:7 Fax 2:3 5:21,25 6:13,16,20,23 7:1,10,11,15,19,22,25 8:4,7 8:12,15,20,25 9:3,7,11,15 9:19,25 10:2,6,22 11:10,16 12:8,20 13:3,10,14,24 14:3 14:8 15:15 16:11 17:12,24 18:6,21,25 19:7,13,22 20:5 20:7,16,22 21:1,22 22:5,10 22:13,16,20 23:1,19 24:18 25:6,15,19,22 28:5,8 29:12 30:24 31:8,24 32:13 33:19 Fazekas 2:16 Federal 30:21 feel 12:6 Fifteen 18:25 Fifth 2:11 figure 24:1 figured 11:3 figures 28:22 financially 34:8 find 14:16 28:24 fine 18:25 22:20 28:4 firm 25:9 first 4:19 15:15 16:19 17:4 31:18 32:2 flight 11:16,18 21:18 floor 28:6 followed 32:4 following 11:5,12 14:13 23:7 24:9 forbidden 7:13 foregoing 34:4,5 forward 28:16 forwarded 9:23 four 5:17 17:3 Friday 12:6 functions 25:12 further 19:9 27:9 34:8 future 21:7 G Gabor 6:6 7:9 gather 33:7 generated 12:14 18:3 gentleman 4:13,19 17:2 Georgetown 2:5 getting 23:2 give 3:16 4:14 10:20 12:11 21:5 22:11,18,18 23:8 25:9 26:8 33:16 given 4:16 12:9 16:4,24 25:16 glass 28:7 go 5:17 7:20 9:7 11:21 15:8 19:18,20 33:7 going 12:3 20:11 22:2,3 Gotshal 2:11 great 21:20 ground 28:6 guard 7:15 guide 15:18 H Hague 4:10 14:23 21:15 23:10 25:15,17 26:6 half 11:24 28:3 Hanak 2:3 18:17 19:17 Handed 20:6 happen 15:6 happened 10:19 happens 14:9,24 20:18 health 4:4 5:13 14:15 15:7 hear 11:22 29:4 32:18,21 33:8,9 heard 4:4 11:8 14:2 24:13,15 29:11 hearing 1:11,12 3:10,10 4:11 5:8,14,15,22 13:6,9,25 14:1 14:7 17:13,20,21 20:9 21:7 24:8 26:21,22 27:21,22 29:6 30:1 hearings 27:10 Heinzellmann 2:15 help 15:18 Hendrick 2:20 34:3,16 highly 23:25 29:23 home 5:4,16 7:14,16 8:9 9:8 9:11,14,16,16 11:9 21:8 Honor 5:21 6:13 11:11 19:7 29:12 32:17 33:19,20 hope 33:12 Horvath 5:3,9,11,18,20 6:6,8 6:9,21,25 7:2,9,13,17,21,23 8:2,6,10,16,23 9:2,4,9,13,18 9:22 10:1,4,7 11:2,23 12:17 12:25 13:6,11,15 14:1,4,9 16:18,21 19:14,25 20:10 21:3,9 23:5,24 24:4 25:16 25:25 27:19 hospital 4:25 5:2 7:19 8:9,21 8:22 9:8,17 10:12 11:5 12:23 13:4 Hungaria 1:7 17:6 29:21 31:16 Hungarian 1:12 3:9,13 4:5 5:23 12:14 14:21 16:6,12 17:5 22:1,8 23:12,13 24:5 33:14 Hungary 1:6,18 3:8 11:14 15:10 25:6 29:19 31:13 I ID 4:1 6:3 idea 10:7 12:3 15:11 26:25 ideas 15:16 identify 6:1 14:16 15:4,12 20:14 31:23 important 17:19 31:5 indicate 29:24 indicated 15:7 28:14 29:10 30:2,13 inform 4:3 21:4 information 4:24 21:2,12 23:4 24:12 26:4 27:8 29:7 informed 4:21 7:23,25 8:1,3 8:7,13 9:6 initial 10:18 initiated 29:5 initiating 31:6 32:5 instance 17:4,4,8 intellectual 6:12 intend 22:11 intention 22:17,25 interested 34:10 interpreted 23:6 Interpreter 1:12 2:20 3:3 5:10,24 6:18 8:13 12:2 17:2 18:14 19:3,8 22:4,7,17 28:14 30:22 32:21 33:4 interrupt 10:10 investigation 8:17 24:16 investigations 13:8,17 involved 34:8 involving 15:9 27:4 irrespective 12:4 33:13
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lady 3:6 21:15 28:14 29:9 language 5:22 Laszlo 1:11 2:14,15 7:12 34:4 late 21:3 J law 4:5 23:12,13 joined 14:6 lawyer 6:7 30:2 joint 17:6 leave 7:13 judge 3:6,22 4:2 5:7,15,22 Lee 2:10 6:3,15 8:17,18,24 10:10,25 left 5:20 11:4,12,20,25 12:3,4,13,19 legal 2:16 4:7,12,13 6:6,18 13:20 14:5,13 15:19,25 16:8 10:25 11:25 12:16 14:17,20 16:12,19,24 17:9,17 18:2,7 14:25 16:16 19:3,10 24:2,4 18:19,22 19:1,4,8,16,20,23 24:23,23,24,25 25:4,4,11 20:8,13,19,23 21:6,11,20 26:4,10,25 27:13 28:17 22:8,11,23 23:9 24:2,8,14 let's 12:19 24:20 25:9,10,20,23 26:3,20 letter 30:20 27:22 28:4,6,10,16 30:21 letters 21:24 30:25 31:3,9,17 32:1,14 33:1,6 Levitan 2:4 judgment 17:13 list 17:10 18:10 28:11,11 July 15:13 lived 4:9 June 1:21 3:2 34:4,17 Livingston 2:4 LLP 2:11 K London 34:3 Kay 2:20 34:3,16 long 11:14 18:20 21:17 KERI 3:6 5:7,15,22 6:3,15 look 10:8 13:2 25:1 27:4,25 8:18 10:10,25 11:4,12,20,25 looking 17:16 20:1 23:5 12:4,13,19 13:20 14:5,13 loud 29:10 15:19,25 16:8,12,19,24 17:9 17:17 18:2,7,19,22 19:1,16 M 19:20,23 20:8,13,19,23 21:6 machine 34:5 21:11,20 22:8,11,23 23:9 Magyar 17:5 24:2,8,20 25:9,20,23 26:3 MAGYARALLAMVASU... 26:20 27:22 28:4,6,10,16 1:6 31:3,9,17 32:1,14 33:1,6 mailed 27:5 33:9 Keruleti 1:16 Manges 2:11 key 27:15 manner 14:24 28:20 kind 6:4 13:21 25:20 27:20 Maria 2:20 3:4 29:6,9 Maryland 2:5 know 7:23 8:2,6 9:9,9,13 matter 26:16 29:14 30:5,8 11:2 16:16 23:24 25:11 MAV 29:20 31:13 knowledge 8:8 mean 6:19 10:4 11:10 14:1 knows 24:14 21:6 26:9 Konrad 2:10 18:25 Meaning 25:6 konrad.cailteux@weil.com means 12:17 15:3 21:13 2:13 23:14 Kosticne 3:4 mediate 14:25 Kozponti 1:15 mediates 15:1 medical 4:23 5:4 10:4,11,22 L 17:21 20:20 23:17,17 issue 30:20 issued 8:24 Istvan 2:14 meet 28:3 members 3:13 mentioned 31:9 Mesterhazy 3:4 Mesterhazy-Kostic 2:20 met 13:9 29:18 middle 13:11,14,15 minimum 15:5 Ministry 2:16 14:24,25 27:4 33:10 minute 5:19 6:4 12:13 15:25 21:10 25:21 minutes 3:23 17:9 18:21 26:20 27:21,22 28:2 33:9,11 missed 33:13 missing 27:8 misunderstood 13:24 mobilized 15:9 mobilizing 16:5 mode 31:4 momentarily 16:4 month 15:3 monthly 15:4 morning 5:12 9:23 10:24 11:17,19 21:5,12 N Nagy 2:14 22:15 26:14 28:2 name 6:1,6 28:20,25 29:3 names 17:3,10 28:11 Nanyista 2:15 narrow 19:18 natural 14:4,17 15:10 17:17 near 21:7 necessary 9:2 14:19 31:24 need 8:23 16:13 28:2 needed 19:4,11 negative 5:10 neither 6:11 nevertheless 12:4 23:22 31:10 32:3 new 2:12 14:16 15:4,12 16:5 19:14,15 20:15 31:23 night 9:22 normally 4:6 note 10:3 25:25 notice 9:20 noticed 28:19 notification 19:15 32:11
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31:5 32:10 33:10,15 34:9,9 parts 24:10 party 28:12 passports 4:1 patience 6:4 25:21 29:9 Pause 6:5 penal 8:18 13:22 16:23 18:13 18:14 24:3,9,14,16 25:11 26:7,15,16,18,21,24 27:15 27:16 28:25 O people 3:15,24 5:11,16,17 o'clock 19:2 13:1 19:18 objection 31:14 perception 10:18 14:14 objections 31:16 permission 8:24 obligated 13:25 person 4:2,4 10:1 18:11,12 obligation 13:21 23:7 19:25 20:1 23:5 24:12,15 obliged 14:12 23:8 personal 4:23 5:1 observed 23:13 32:5 personally 7:25 9:15 obtaining 30:10 persons 16:20 obviously 4:17 phenomenona 11:8 occasion 14:12 phone 9:23 Office 13:7,16 26:1,13 photocopied 17:25 officer 27:18 physical 6:11 Okay 22:20 pictures 3:11,14,19,25 Old 2:5 place 4:11,18 5:15 15:6 21:8 on-the 6:1 23:12 26:24 27:21 33:7 once 3:10 7:17 9:5 12:10 15:3 Plaintiffs 1:3 2:2 17:12 29:16 ooo 33:22 30:3 open 12:3 please 4:2,22 5:19,23,24 opinion 26:10 21:11 27:23 29:8 33:5 opportunity 5:8 29:15 30:4 pleased 29:4 32:6 point 30:7 option 14:22 19:19 26:7,17 points 27:15 27:2 31:21 police 7:12,15,20,22,24,25 oral 22:12,18 8:1,7,10,12,13 9:3,5 order 21:14 30:19 32:4 33:14 position 16:20,21 20:3 22:22 ordered 24:5 27:14,18 outcome 34:10 positive 3:22 overlook 21:13 possibility 5:7 30:10 possible 4:11 11:24 14:6 P 27:11 28:18 page 21:23,24,24 post 27:14 pages 24:7 27:23 practical 29:22 30:8 paper 12:14 27:24 precise 13:12 parallel 26:16 precisely 9:10 paraphrasing 22:5 prepared 30:14 part 32:22 prescribed 21:14 particulars 6:5 presence 19:10 23:9 parties 10:21 15:1 27:6 28:19 present 2:19 3:6,15,19,20,21 notifications 15:5 notified 7:22 8:10,12,14,20 9:1 notify 31:20 number 6:2 21:23 27:10 nurse 9:20 10:2 nurses 13:1,1 nursing 5:11 NY 2:12 3:24 4:14,17 5:16 13:21 14:12,22 16:6 21:16 23:7 28:18,19 32:7,15 presentation 14:10 presented 13:16 14:11 presume 10:8 18:8 prevents 10:23 probable 23:25 probably 15:17 17:13 procedural 30:5 procedure 8:19 16:23 18:13 18:15,15,18 21:14 23:11,14 24:3 26:16,22,24 27:16 31:2 31:4,7,11,14 32:4 procedures 25:12 33:14 proceeding 3:10 28:16 29:25 proceedings 15:23 19:11 21:21 24:10,14,16 25:11 32:8 33:11,14 process 23:13 27:15 29:1 30:12,18,20 32:6 production 31:1 proeedings 3:3 proper 5:14 properly 27:25 proposal 14:14 15:10 31:12 Prosecution 13:7,17 26:1,13 prosecutor 4:5 prove 17:22 provide 11:1 13:2 17:15 provided 23:4,23 29:7 providing 12:18 publicly 24:19 purposes 3:23 17:9 Pursuant 25:15 Q question 4:19,20 5:21 11:13 12:20 17:18,19 19:23 20:23 21:1,22 22:21 25:10 28:17 31:17 questions 6:14,17 10:16 12:15 16:17 18:7,9,10,11 19:5,9 27:19 quite 10:8 11:21 20:14 24:10 27:10 R Rail 1:7 17:6 29:20 31:15
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railway 17:5 raise 32:16 raised 4:19 12:15 19:6,9 26:25,25 read 10:17 15:17,22 16:16 27:6,24 29:15,18 Real-time 34:3 really 23:1 reason 23:16 reasonable 30:18 32:2 receive 19:15,24 32:11 Recess 28:9 reconciled 31:10 reconvene 23:2,20 30:7 record 6:1,5 30:11 33:21 34:6 recorded 3:14,24,25 33:11 34:5 recorder 3:9 recording 3:11,14,18 records 3:9,23 19:8 refer 16:19 references 10:18 referred 11:4 18:10 referring 16:14 refers 10:15 17:2 reflects 23:18 refuse 17:21 regard 4:15 regarding 17:13 22:22 26:7,9 26:9 27:19 33:16 related 13:22 relation 25:17 26:11 relative 34:8,9 release 25:7 30:15 released 8:22 remain 26:2 remarks 33:16 replace 24:8 report 20:16 Reporter 2:20 21:18 34:1,3 represent 17:3,7 24:3 28:12 representation 14:18 representative 4:7,12,13 6:6 6:19 10:25 11:25 12:16 14:21 16:16 17:5 19:3,10 24:2,5 26:11 27:1,13 28:17 representatives 14:20 15:9 represented 17:7 representing 29:19,20 REPUBLIC 1:6 request 29:8 30:7,14 31:6 32:11 requests 27:9 reserve 30:6 response 29:5 responsible 8:17 13:7,17 rest 3:15 return 11:16,18 16:1 returned 6:8 revealed 27:12 review 12:10 reviewed 29:17 Rifkind 2:4 right 5:4 6:3,5,25 7:2 8:20,25 10:19 13:13 14:17 15:8,14 15:19 16:8 17:15 18:13 19:17 20:24 25:10,25 26:8 28:1 29:2 30:6 31:19,22 32:1 33:15 rights 5:1 ring 9:22 21:5 Road 2:5 rogatory 30:21,25 ROSALIE 1:3 rules 3:12 S S 2:3 sanctioned 20:21 23:15 sanctions 20:22 saying 22:6 says 12:3 22:9,10 23:11 scheduled 14:8 scope 24:14,15,22,22,24 25:4 29:2 second 10:10 11:24 17:4 21:24 29:9 see 5:5,7 9:25 19:18 20:12 21:20 26:14 seen 4:9 20:25 send 14:21 32:7 sensible 31:4,4 32:2 sent 5:11 September 15:13 set 16:5 short 15:23 28:9 shorten 14:22 shorter 15:8 shorthand 34:5 sick 12:7 side 15:19,20 29:18 31:11 sides 4:2 11:21 signature 28:22,24 signed 10:13 18:4 34:15 Silver 2:4 similar 13:21 SIMON 1:3 simple 27:17 sincerely 33:12 single 10:20 sit 21:9 sitting 17:1 situation 3:8 12:5 somebody 8:1 somewhat 4:22 sorry 13:24 15:1 20:3 25:1 sounds 30:18,18 speak 13:5 speaking 27:24 special 28:20 spelling 29:3 spelt 28:20,23 spend 11:15 spoke 13:1 19:25 23:5 spoken 12:23 stand 33:6 standpoint 29:22 30:3 state 17:5 23:25 24:6 stated 4:25 14:23 16:15 statement 4:15,16 10:14 11:5 12:9,10 15:17,22 17:25 21:23 22:2,3,12,14,18,18 23:8,23 26:8 28:23 29:15,17 29:18 states 1:1 22:1 25:8 32:12,19 32:24 stating 22:5 status 4:4 5:13 15:7 stay 11:14 26:1 staying 5:4 21:17 step 31:7 32:10 steps 29:21 stick 15:11 stock 17:7 studied 18:8 study 16:10 32:2 subject 8:19 10:15 13:23
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16:22 submitted 10:13 substantial 14:19 sufficient 29:8 31:21 33:2 suggest 33:15 suggested 26:24 suggestion 16:4 29:5 suitable 20:2,3,4,9 Suite 2:5 supports 23:16 sure 8:3 28:2,5 surrender 30:4 suspect 14:2,2 26:21,23,23 suspending 29:25 T take 15:6,22 21:7 23:12 taken 24:21 34:4 talking 3:11 telephone 6:2 tell 13:12 22:24 terms 17:12 testify 22:1 23:22 testimony 34:3,6 text 18:3,11 22:8 thank 15:15 16:2,3,11 18:6 18:19 19:13 20:7 22:20 28:8 29:12 32:14,18,23 33:18,19,20 think 11:7,20 12:14 15:21 16:4,20 19:7 21:11 25:23 26:6 27:2,19 31:3,20,24 32:9 third 17:8 19:19 thousand 24:7 three 16:25,25 30:8 Thursday 12:6 time 6:9 13:4,11 20:2,9 27:14 28:21,21 32:10,18 times 24:13,15 title 26:5 today 5:9 6:24 9:21 19:19,21 21:4 33:8 today's 29:25 told 9:1,3 11:23 21:23 tomorrow 11:16,19,22 20:8 21:4,12,18 29:23 topic 27:14 totally 30:3 transcribed 34:5 transcript 34:4,6 translated 29:15,17 translation 18:9,23 Treaty 4:10 14:23 21:15 25:17 26:6,7 tried 14:16 true 34:6 trying 16:5 Tuesday 1:21 3:2 34:4 turn 4:6 13:18 turning 23:16 turns 23:9 two 9:14 15:1,2 weakness 11:5 week 7:18 9:5 11:24 12:18 13:16 14:10 Weil 2:11 went 7:19 8:8 9:16 12:22 13:3 Wessels 2:14 29:20 31:15 wish 17:10 22:1 witness 4:12,16 6:13,17 7:11 12:6,8 19:10 20:20 23:14 29:6 34:4 witnesses 4:6,7 words 23:1 32:8 work 25:19 29:13 wouldn't 3:17 5:16 26:3 U writing 10:15 11:3 24:1,12 unable 9:20 written 10:2 12:9 17:24,25 uncertain 11:6,7 12:1 14:15 23:23 understand 5:23 17:24 20:18 wrong 26:4 21:1,25 22:7 X understanding 8:4 22:21 23:20 31:19 Y understood 30:13 Y 28:21,24 unfortunately 28:17 33:1,8 Yesterday 13:17 Union 25:13 United 1:1 25:7 32:12,19,24 York 2:12 unsure 11:6 Z use 5:24 14:17 16:13 Zrt 1:7 ut 1:17 V verbatim 34:6 violating 5:1 Virag 2:15 visited 9:15 voice 3:11,14,18 29:11 voices 3:25 voluntary 23:10 vs 1:4 W wait 12:19 15:25 16:8 walk 11:7 want 15:15 30:3 wanted 32:23 Washington 30:21,23,24 water 28:7 way 3:19 20:13 23:7 30:12 34:10 0 01770-BAH 1:8 1 1 21:23,24,24 1:10-cv 1:8 10 18:21 27:25 28:1 10.00 19:1 10153-0119 2:12 1021 1:18 10th 34:17 11:00 33:21 15 18:24 27:23 19 16:19 1942 21:25 1944 10:19 2 20 27:23 28:2 2013 1:21 3:2 34:4,17
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877-479-2484

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Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 1 of 42

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 2 of 42

Also Present: Maria Mesterhazy-Kostic - Interpreter Kay Hendrick - Court Reporter

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 3 of 42

The lady is present here on

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 4 of 42

he was admitted to the hospital and this may be stated

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 5 of 42

without violating any personal rights. hospital? MR HORVATH:

No, he is not there any more. From the medical

He is staying at home right now.

THE INTERPRETER: MR HORVATH:

People who are nursing him sent

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 6 of 42

I would like to ask, if I may, the

MR HORVATH: to answer. MR FAX: today. MR HORVATH:

No, no, about the circumstances

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 7 of 42

Did he say "yes"? "Right", he said. Yes.

Mr Gabor Horvath Examined by Mr Fax MR FAX: Am I correct that the witness,

Were the police notified? As far as I know he informed

MR HORVATH: the police, yes. MR FAX:

He personally informed the police

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 8 of 42

was that done on May 27th? MR HORVATH: MR FAX: I don't know.

Were the police informed, to the

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 9 of 42

But the police were told? Yes, of course they were,

So how did the attorney get a

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 10 of 42

MR HORVATH: MR FAX: this note? MR HORVATH: certification? MR FAX:

No, they brought in person.

And this is a nurse who has written

You mean the medical

Yes. I am afraid I have no idea. I

Let me interrupt for a second. This has been

There is a medical certification.

that are covered by the questions.

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Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 11 of 42

the hospital by the following statement:

Those who are here and do not come from

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Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 12 of 42

uncertain about it. THE INTERPRETER: As far as I am concerned I

The paper is in Hungarian.

I just have one more question, if I Without asking the contents of

may to the attorney.

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 13 of 42

is obligated to be at the hearing or not?

U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.

Case 1:10-cv-01770-BAH Document 95-1 Filed 06/11/13 Page 14 of 42

You mean at the hearing where

MR HORVATH: JUDGE KERI: