Mark Leonard - Deposition of 28FEB2013

Page 1 UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON
In Re: MITCHAEL BOGDEN, Debtor, __________________________ MARK LEONARD AND TYTAN INTERNATIONAL INC., Plaintiffs. Vs. MITCHAEL J. BOGDEN, Defendants.
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Case No. 11-00883-FLK7 ADV NO. 11-80075-FLK
DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF MARK LEONARD
February 28, 2013 Yakima, Washington
TAKEN AT THE INSTANCE OF THE DEBTOR/DEFENDANT REPORTED BY: JORI L. MOORE, CCR, RPR COURT REPORTING SERVICE (509)457-6741 (800)317-6741 SOUTH SECOND STREET, 413 LARSON BLDG., YAKIMA, WA
Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ALSO PRESENT: 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mitchael Bogden APPEARANCES: FOR THE DEBTOR/DEFENDANT: MR. DON BOYD Carlson Boyd Attorneys at Law 230 South Second Street, Suite 202 Yakima, Washington 98901 509.834.6611 Dboyd@cbblawfirm.com FOR THE PLAINTIFF: MR. JEFFREY R. SIMPSON Talbott Simpson Attorneys at Law 308 North Second Street Yakima, Washington 98901 509.575.7501 Jsimpson@talbottlaw.com
COURT REPORTING SERVICE (509)457-6741 (800)317-6741 SOUTH SECOND STREET, 413 LARSON BLDG., YAKIMA, WA
Page 3 1 2 3 4 5 T E S T I M O N Y 6 MARK LEONARD 7 Examination by Mr. Boyd 8 Examination by Mr. Simpson 9 10 11 1 12 13 2 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Tytan Holdings, Inc. Annual Report and Disclosure Statement Tytan Holdings, Inc. Quarterly Report Tytan Holdings, Inc. Quarterly Report Tytan Holdings, Inc. 2010 Annual Report Penny Stock Blog documents Penny Stock Blog documents Penny Stock Gurus Blog documents Marketwire document E-mail chain starting 12-17-07 E-mail chain starting 12-18-07 E-mail chain starting 12-21-07 E-mail chain starting 12-21-07 COURT REPORTING SERVICE (509)457-6741 (800)317-6741 SOUTH SECOND STREET, 413 LARSON BLDG., YAKIMA, WA 47 52 57 59 61 62 65 67 71 74 74 76 Tytan Holdings, Inc. Consolidated Supplementary Information Years Ended December 31, 2009 and 2008 45 E X H I B I T S 139 6, 142 PAGE NO. I N D E X In Re: Bogden, Leonard vs. Bogden Case No. 11-00883-FLK7 ADV No. 11-80075-FLK February 28, 2013
Page 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 E X H I B I T S (Cont'd) E-mail chain starting 12-23-07 E-mail chain starting 12-23-07 E-mail chain starting 12-26-07 E-mail chain starting 12-26-07 E-mail chain starting 8-25-07 E-mail chain starting 12-27-07 E-mail chain starting 12-27-07 Letter from M. Leonard to M. Bogden E-mail chain starting 1-6-08 E-mail chain starting 1-7-08 E-mail chain starting 1-7-08 E-mail chain starting 1-8-08 E-mail chain starting 1-28-08 E-mail chain starting 1-28-08 E-mail chain starting 2-9-08 Letter 1-7-10 to P. McDonald from M. Leonard E-mail chain starting 1-12-09 E-mail chain starting 1-18-10 TYM Tractors document TYM Tractors document TYM Tractors document TYM Tractors document TYM Tractors document Stock ad 9-10-10 77 79 81 84 86 86 87 89 91 92 94 95 96 98 98 110 112 114 115 121 124 128 131 132
Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 38 39 E X H I B I T S (Cont'd) Tytan stock growth chart E-mail chain starting 3-24-08 135 138
Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. BY MR. BOYD: Good morning, Mr. Leonard. met before. My name is Don Boyd. We've And MARK LEONARD, being first duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, testified as follows: EXAMINATION BE IT REMEMBERED that on Thursday, February 28, 2013, commencing 9:00 a.m. at 230 South Second Street, Yakima, Washington, the deposition of MARK LEONARD was taken before Jori L. Moore, Certified Court Reporter. The following proceedings took place:
I'm the attorney for Mitch Bogden.
you're here because we've subpoenaed you for deposition. Yes. And for the record -- let's see. Before we get
started, if -- I ask you questions, you don't understand the question, please ask me to restate it and I'll try to restate the question. Please answer
yes or no because the court reporter can't pick up shakes of the head or, you know, less than yes or no answers or verbal answers. Let's see. For the record, could you state your full
Page 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. name? Mark Anthony Leonard. Okay. And where do you currently live?
In Kalama, Washington. What's your address there? 5225 Meeker Drive. How long have you lived there? Oh, I don't know. that. What's your current age? 63. Do you take any medications that would in any way affect what you're able to understand or say here today? Probably. What are they? I take some medicine -- I don't know the exact names, but I take some medicines for drowsiness. Okay. Do you think you're going to be able to go Five -- seven years, something like
through the deposition today properly? Hope so. Okay. If you have any issues about that, please let Okay?
us know. Uh-huh.
What's your current occupation?
Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Tractor sales. Could you kind of be more explicit about what you actually -- what's your title or -- are you an employee? I'm just about everything. retailer. Do you own a company? Yes. What company is that? I own a portion of it. Okay. Tytan International. But tractor distributor,
What's your position with that company?
President. Are you also the speaking agent for that company? Yes. And basically, you're here today individually but also on behalf of the company? Yes. Could you tell me what your educational background was, just generally? Went to the University of Washington, economics degree. When did you graduate? 1970. Did you take any additional schooling after that post --
Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Just school of hard knocks. Okay. Do you belong to any professional
organizations? No. Have you ever belonged to any professional organizations? No. After you graduated from the University of Washington, what did you do after that? I was a factory rep in the hunting, fishing, camping business. For what company? I represented 30 different lines of guns and fishing equipment. Were you an employee for a particular company? Independent commission rep. Okay. Exclusive rep. In what area were you the rep for? Northwest -- well, Northwest at first and then the entire 13 Western states. And when did you start with that? '71 or '2. How long were you working at that field? About 12 years, I think. 12, 14 years, something like
Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. that. So what did you do after that? Well, kind of overlapping, I started a boat trailer distributorship. When did you start that? 1981. And could you describe what that entailed? We had the exclusive agreement to distribute ShoreLand'r boat trailers throughout the Northwest. In the Northwest. What do you ascribe that to be?
Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Alaska, Hawaii. Was that a company that you started? Trailer World, yes. And did you have any other employees in that company? Several employees. Were you the owner? Yes. Were you -- was there any other owners in that company? No. Do you still do that? No. When did you quit doing that? Sold it in '92. And who did you sell that to?
Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A fellow named Orrin Lundy. Is that business still active? Yes. So after you stopped being the rep for the sports company or the sports group -- let's call it that -was your sole job, then, as the boat -No. -- boat and trailer thing? Started a company about '84 that distributed the Buzz Bomb fishing lure. Did you create a company to do that? Yes. What company was that? PRN Sales, Inc. And called it a Buzz Bomb fishing lure -Yeah. The same rep -- the same company as my rep
group was. But you were now just focused on fishing lures? Yes. It overlapped a little bit with the -- my having
the rep firm, but I sold the rep firm and just did that. So you -- so you sold the rep firm. that to? Employees. After you sold it, were you still active in that Who did you sell
Page 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. sports rep thing? No. So from '84 to '92 you overlapped between the boat trailer work and the PRN Sales? Yes. Did you have any other business activity during that time? Yes. I also designed and imported a line of
fishing -- hip and chest waders. Was that a separate company? PRN Sales. So it was fishing lures and then the waders, all within PRN Sales? Uh-huh. Other than PRN Sales from '84 to '92, and the Trailer World, did you have any other business -No. -- activities? I'm sorry. me there. The time that you sold Trailer World, which I believe you said was '92? Yes. Yeah, I started my tractor -- Rhino tractor I didn't pick up that last date you gave
business in '88. And was that a corporate entity that you created?
Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And was it a corporation? Yes. Were you the sole shareholder? Rhino International Incorporated, yes. Okay. So the official name of the company is Rhino
International? Yes. And you were the sole shareholder? Yeah. And that was started in 1988. International do? They imported tractors from China. What -- any particular brand of tractors? Rhino. How many employees did you have? At the end, 26. And where did you sell those tractors? All over the United States. How? Did you have stores? What did Rhino
Dealerships. So you would contract with dealers to sell them tractors and they would sell to customers? That's correct. And how long did you own Rhino tractor -- or Rhino
Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. International? Until mid-'95. And what happened at that point? It was purchased by the Alamo Group. And did you sell the stock of the company versus the assets of the company? No. They basically bought the assets, which was the
agreements we had and inventory. Do you know what the sale price was? Round numbers, it was about -- inventory was about 3 million. They assumed that, paid me the difference.
And the so-called blue sky was about 4 million. Is Rhino -- is the Alamo Group still selling Rhino tractors? No. Do you know when they stopped? They did it for about three years until they ran into a conflict of interest with John Deere. Are Rhino tractors still sold in the US? Well, if you're talking about the brand, only used are being sold. If your talking about the actual same
products being sold, yes. So the Rhino manufacturing company changed the name of their tractors at some point? No. Alamo -- John Deere represented 50 percent of
Page 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Alamo's business, and so they were creating a product using those tractors that conflicted with their arrangement with John Deere. Okay. So they had to drop Rhino period or lose 50 percent of their business. Do you know if Alamo sold the Rhino line to somebody else? No. I said they dropped it. They just had to get out
of it because they had a very serious conflict. So you don't know if they sold their inventory to some third party or anything? Well, they sold their inventory out to cut the dealerships that were out there. I believe your testimony was that the Rhino name tractor isn't sold anymore as new tractors? It is only sold under the Chinese brands that made up Rhino. And I guess I'm unclear here as when you were buying these tractors, Rhino tractors, did they have a Rhino name on them? No. Okay. That was my trademark. So they were actually some other tractor that
came over and you would sell them as Rhino tractors? They were made with our -- you know, it's like
Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. ordering a car. You get a big list of do you want And they were made, basically,
this, this and this. to our orders. Okay.
Who did you buy your tractors from?
Basically, five different factories. Did they have brand names or were these just tractors that didn't have brand names, and you would just buy the tractor? Well, they had Chinese brand names. companies in the world. And you would rename them as Rhino tractors? Oh, I had them built for Rhino. So then in 1995 you sold Rhino tractor. what did you do? I had a noncompete clause for three or four years. What did that limit you from doing? Being in competition with Alamo. So you couldn't sell Chinese -Tractors. Any tractors? Yeah, that's right. When did that end? Three or four years after 1995. What did you do at that time? Pardon? After '95, Largest tractor
Page 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. employees. BY MR. BOYD: For a particular manufacturer of tractors? Yes. What was the company name? Benye tractor. Anybody else? Yes. What was the name of that company? Jinma tractor. Anybody else? No. Benye and Jinma were the two companies that contacted you to sell Chinese tractors? Q. A. Q. A. After the noncompete expired, what did you do? Then I was contacted by Chinese, people told me that there was some opportunities to get back in it. Who were they? That's confidential. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: out my contacts. MR. SIMPSON: describe them. THE WITNESS: They were Chinese factory No, no. Just generically Were they manufacturers? Well, I'm not going to give
Page 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. That's correct. And what did you do with that? Checked out their leads, what they were talking about. And did you take any positive action to pursue that line? I went and met with a few manufacturers that had come up. Were there any others than the two you've already mentioned? Any others -- you're -Any other manufacturers than the two you've already mentioned, Jinma and Benye? What I said was that I met with a couple employees that gave me some insights from those two factories. Okay. Then what did you do with that? Did you take
any affirmative steps to pursue that line -Yeah, I just answered that. I said I had looked into
those leads that I'd been given. My next question was: Did you look into any other
leads other than those two companies? Yeah. I didn't have leads at those companies, they
gave me leads elsewhere. And what companies did you investigate? That's confidential. Why is it confidential?
Page 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Because you got a guy right here that's going to take any of my leads and do all kinds of damage to me. MR. SIMPSON: Plus it's not really relevant
to this lawsuit what the name of these entities are. It's just who do you order tractors from? China, manufacturers. You don't -- it's not relevant to get names, addresses. MR. BOYD: investigated in -THE WITNESS: I'm on a first-name basis with I'm just asking what companies he People in
every tractor company in China that's significant, and I talk to all of them. BY MR. BOYD: And that's what you did back in 19 -- or when your termination -- your noncompete terminated? I talked to the ones that I was most interested in. And I'm not asking for particular names of individuals, just tractor companies. MR. SIMPSON: Again, that's -- it gets into
his business relationships, and we don't -- clearly don't want them interfered with. It -if you -- why
don't you just ask him, "Did you order tractors from these people? Did you order your own specification?"
I mean, what difference does it make?
Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. names. MR. BOYD: Yes. And he does not want to you. MR. BOYD: So you're instructing your client MR. BOYD: I don't know the names of the That's why
companies so I can't ask that question.
I'm asking the question of what companies he contacted. THE WITNESS: I'm not going to give it to
not to answer that question? MR. SIMPSON: I'm requesting that you modify
it simply saying, "Did you order tractors from a manufacturer in China? will get you there. MR. BOYD: of any individuals. MR. SIMPSON: No, you're asking company If so, what did order?" That
You don't need their names. Again, I'm not asking the names
MR. SIMPSON:
disclose that information. Is that correct, Mark? THE WITNESS: BY MR. BOYD: Okay. So you're refusing to answer that question? Want to give me your family They're trade secrets.
It's a trade secret. member names?
Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. BY MR. BOYD: Q. Did you set up a company to start purchasing Chinese tractors? Yes. Okay. When was that? At the end, I think. important. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: Well, don't -- Mark -- Mark -It's trade secrets. It's not
It's my business. MR. SIMPSON: Don't banter back and forth.
About 2003. Okay.
And what company was that?
Tytan International. And is that entity a corporation? Yes. Which state is it incorporated in? Washington. Are you the sole shareholder of that company? Well, it's owned by Tytan Holdings. So Tytan Holdings, is that also a corporation? Yes. And when was Tytan Holdings formed? I'm not sure the exact date. It was at the time that
the company was put on the stock market, about 2000 -I think the end of 2010. Okay.
Page 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I'm not sure of the exact date. So between 2003, when you formed Tytan International, and when the stock of Tytan International was purchased by Tytan Holdings, who were shareholders of Tytan International? Myself. And what was the business of Tytan International from 2003 on? Importing and selling and servicing of tractors. Did you have a store? Yes. Who did you sell your tractors to? International sell it's tractors to? Retailer, customers and wholesale customers. Did it have dealer agreements with other dealers? Had no dealer agreements other than Mr. Bogden. So how -I had no written dealer agreements. You had a store. Kalama. Did you have stores anywhere else? No. You said you sold retail to -- retail consumers and then also wholesale; is that correct? Yes. Where was that located? Who did Tytan
Page 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. How were the wholesale transactions accomplished? I don't know what -- that's pretty broad. know what you're talking about there. Did Tytan International advertise that it had tractors for sale in any publications? No. Okay. We targeted certain customers . And -I don't
And some customers came to us. How did you contact those? And I presume we're
talking about wholesale customers here. That's what you said. Okay. Just -- rather than retail, this line of How did
question deals with just wholesale customers.
Tytan International contact those wholesale customers? Well, we could contact them through every communication means there is. phone, fax, e-mail.
How did -- were you the decision maker for Tytan International at that point? Which point? From 2003 on. Yes. Did anybody else make business decisions for Tytan International? At -- different types, yes. What other people would make decisions?
Page 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Well, if we had a person -- a service manager, they would make the decisions for that category. had a person on parts, same thing. was the same person. And if we
A lot of times it
If we had a person that's
collecting monies owed, they'd make that one. Okay. But the overall business strategy of Tytan
International, who made that decision? Myself. In deciding who to contact of these wholesale dealers, that was your responsibility? I had some people helping. Who made the final decision? Which decision? On who to contact. I had people that were soliciting. We had different
dealer lists of dealers that they would solicit. Who -Potential dealers. Who would -- was the person responsible for coming up with that dealer list? The fellows that I had hired. Did you approve them making those contacts, or did they just go off on their own to call whoever they decided? We discussed -- it was a little bit of both.
Page 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. My question is: Who had final authority if one of
these people came and said, "I want to go to this one dealer," who made the final decision as to whether to approve or deny that? Well, we discussed -- it depends what informations were provided that might influence that decision. a credit person said, "Hey, that credits no good," that's pretty much a final decision. several pieces to the puzzle. Was there anybody but yourself that had override authority to make a final decision on that? Like I said, we had people in charge of service. had people in charge of financial monies owed -credit, rather. Different things. We So there's If
Did you have somebody who was responsible for the financial information of Tytan International? Repeat that. Was there somebody in charge of preparing financial information for Tytan International? Yeah, we had a few people. Who were they? I had Doris Chalco (phonetic) was a bookkeeper originally. What did she do? Did financials.
Page 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. moment. (A short recess was taken.) MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD: Anybody else? Jerry Leslie. Okay. Anybody else? We're getting quite a ways Go back on the record. Sorry. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Did she prepare tax returns? Yes. Did she prepare financial statements? Yes. Anybody else who did those things? Later we had a fellow named Jerry Leslie. We had an
in-house gal named Saskia (phonetic), another one Anita. And Saskia, do you know what her last name is? I'm not good on last names right now. it to you if you want it. Yeah, please. Uh-huh. Do you know her last name? Baldwin. MR. SIMPSON: Let's go off the record one And then Anita? I can provide
Repeat the question again. from it.
I want to make sure I'm answering it.
Page 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Who was responsible for preparing financial information for Tytan International? Yes. Okay. We also had an accounting firm out of
Nevada, De Joya Griffith. Is there anybody else? That's all I can think of right now. And you've named four or five different people. they all still working for Tytan International? In one manner or another, yeah. I'm not using De Joya Are
Griffith so much anymore, but that's only maybe a temporary situation. So all of those individuals that you had talked about still are employees of Tytan International? I didn't say employees. contractors. But they're still working for Tytan International? They perform certain works for Tytan. Who was primarily responsible for preparing financial statements, year-end financial statements, quarterly financial statements for Tytan International? When? Starting with 2003. Initially it was -- I want to say Doris Chalco, and then it was Jerry Leslie, pretty much. And how long did Doris have that primary A lot of them are independent
Page 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. responsibility. I don't know. A couple -- two or three years into it.
And then Jerry Leslie took over -Yeah. -- doing that? Yes. And who took -- is he still the one primarily responsible? Then Saskia. How long did Jerry Leslie do it? Oh, couple years, maybe. And Saskia took over and she's still the primary person responsible for that? Yes. Uh-huh.
Who are the officers of Tytan International? Well, I'm president. And I'm not sure if I'm
secretary or treasurer, but I haven't looked at that stuff. And then I have my daughter as one. I'm the treasurer. I think
she's a secretary. reversed.
It could be
And your daughter's name? Heather. How long has she been an officer? A couple years. Who -- are there directors for Tytan International?
Page 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. None right now. Has there ever been directors for Tytan International? I can't answer that one. on that one. I presume Tytan International files its annual report with Washington State? Yeah. And that would be listed on those annual reports? Yes. Tytan Holdings, what state is that entity formed in? Colorado. And that was formed in what year? I'd say 2010 -- late 2010 or early 2011, I'm not sure which. Who are the officers of that company? I'm the president, Steve Amdahl or whatever was the secretary. Is he still the secretary? No. Just retired. I don't have a clear memory
Did anybody take over that position for him? I don't know if I have put somebody in there or if it's been changed yet. Usually it gets changed the
year-end deal when they ask for all your new stuff. Are there any directors for Tytan Holdings? No.
Page 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Are you familiar with a company called Ault? Yes. What is Ault? It was a company that previously was Tytan Holdings. Ault Glazer company, is that what your talking about? Yeah. Glazer company. Okay. When did Ault Glazer
cease being or -- when did it change its name? I just don't have the exact dates on those things. I'd just not rather not speculate. Would it have been about the time that Tytan Holdings came into existence? Been prior to that. What was your question again?
I think your testimony was that Ault Glazer used to be -- or became Tytan Holdings? understanding that correctly? It was the same corporation, yes. So Ault Glazer just changed its name to Tytan Holdings? Well, I'm not a corporate expert on the terminology on whether changing the name is the right way to put it or what, so I'm not going to be the expert on that. Okay. What -- what is -- what was Ault Glazer's Am I reading --
business? I really don't know much about them. I don't -I
know that they had pretty much -- didn't have any
Page 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. activity to speak of, a whole lot of activity. Okay. I'd like you to describe what you know about
how -- what Ault Glazer -- how it became Tytan Holdings. You know, I think we can probably just supply you with the documents of what transpired better than I can explain it. I'd like to hear your explanation of your understanding of how Ault Glazer became -I just don't want to speculate with the wrong terminology. When you get into the stock deal, you
have to use the right things or they have different meanings. I'd just as soon not be a conduit of wrong
information, wrong wording. I'm just asking your understanding of how Ault Glazer became Tytan Holdings, not to give us any legal opinions as to how that transpired. I don't know exactly what your asking. a name -- it was a transfer of name. I mean, it was The Ault name
was dropped and then it was changed for a very brief time to an another name. It was handled by our
accountant, Jerry Leslie, so I don't really have a real clear focus on the -- on the information on that. Was Ault Glazer a publically traded company -Yes.
Page 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. -- at the time it was purchased? Yes. What stock exchanges was it traded on? It was called the OTC penny stock market. Do you know how long Ault Glazer had been traded publically? I don't. What was -- do you know what the stock price was at the time of -- changed over to Tytan Holdings? I don't. It was very, very, very low.
In roughly 2009, 2010, I believe you said Tytan Holdings came into existence. Pardon? I believe your testimony was that somewhere between 2009, 2010, Tytan Holdings came into existence, was formed as an entity? MR. SIMPSON: was late 2010. BY MR. BOYD: Okay. Late 2010. I thought the answer was it
The answer was I wasn't sure exactly of the date, but again, I can provide you that information in paper form if you'd like it. And that's -- whenever it was. We'll just say 2010
for the sake of this, not holding anybody to a
Page 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. specific date. Was there any business being conducted
before the company was formed? MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: By whom?
By anybody. All --
MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD:
Was it a sole proprietorship?
Was -- you know, was
there any business that -- that you decided to form into this company? I'd already said that the Ault company -- or Ault Glazer, whatever the exact name Ault Glazer was, is what's -- was already in business. And it was maybe
not so substantial a business that I took a whole lot of notice in it, but I can't really answer the exact question because I don't have that exact knowledge. So you don't know what business Ault Glazer was doing when it -- when Tytan Holdings bought it? Yeah, I don't have a whole -- an exact fix on their business adventures. My next question, was Tytan Holdings doing any business before it came into existence? anything? Was it doing
Was there any sole proprietorship or
partnership or anything that was doing any business before it became Tytan Holdings? It had started some environmental-type work.
Page 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Could you describe that work? It was looking into the -- like solar power and different things like. And when did that start? Propane. When did that business --
When Tytan Holdings started. Prior to that, there was Tytan Holdings -- there was no prior business -- my question is: Was there a
prior business that became Tytan Holdings before Tytan Holdings got formed? Are you asking if there was a private business before it became a corporation? Yes. No. What -when it -- Tytan Holdings, Inc., became a
corporation, what assets did it own? Again, there's an answer that I'd have to give it to you on paper rather than -- I couldn't be accurate on that information. I'd have to give you the paperwork
on that and you can -- it spells it out. MR. BOYD: I'll ask for that specific
listing of what assets Tytan Holdings purchased. MR. SIMPSON: Don, just so it is clear, you
want a list of the assets of Tytan Holdings at the inception? MR. BOYD: Yeah.
Page 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. THE WITNESS: MR. SIMPSON: Inc. So Tytan Holdings, Inc., list
of assets at beginning, inception? MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD: So you've testified that Tytan Holdings, at its inception, was looking into some environmental work, solar panels, that type of stuff. it doing any other business? You know, there again, I'm just going to refer you to the paperwork of creation. That's got it all listed. Anything else? Was Yeah.
I just don't want to be not accurate on it, and that's the best way. There's a lot of documentation, and I
don't want to be saying something that isn't exactly correct. I could say environmental when it's something a tad bit different. And I don't want to speculate, so
I'll just give you a list of exactly what was going on at that time. Okay. Does Tytan Holdings -- at the time of
inception, did it own any other subsidiary entities? Yeah. There was a corporate company that had been
picked up that was sold by the accountant, Jerry Leslie, I believe. I'm not sure of the exact time -So that
time slot of how it -- when it was, though.
Page 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. paint? THE WITNESS: MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD: How long did Tytan Holdings own that company? Still do. Okay. I just -I can get you that information. Yeah. Not code, C-o-d-e. A. Q. again I could give you. MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD: Do you know what business that other entity was engaged in? It had a coatings company. that he had a trademark on. MR. SIMPSON: Is that coatings as in -- like It was a coatings thing Okay. Ask for that.
Were there any other subsidiaries that Tytan
Holdings owned or -- when it started? Pardon? Were there any other subsidiaries that Tytan Holdings owned when it started? Well, I'm going to have to give you those documents because I'm not sure the time order of what happened exactly when there's just a lot of transactions that have happened. This is quite awhile back. I'm not
sure if we had the cart before the horse or the horse before the cart or -- I don't want to be unaccurate
Page 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. also. BY MR. BOYD: Do you own any other companies or have stock in any other companies or any ownership in any other companies at this time? A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. about it. With regard to these various entities that Tytan Holdings, Inc., owned at one time or another, were individual financial statements made for each one of these entities? Yes, I believe so. Were people, other than the ones you've mentioned previously, involved in preparing those financial statements? Yes. Jerry Leslie was.
Would there be anybody else? Maybe De Joya Griffith. That's the company down in -Nevada. Nevada. Okay.
And I presume you have all the financial statements for all these subsidiary companies? I should have the documents relating to any of those companies, yeah. MR. BOYD: I'll ask for copies of those,
Page 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Active companies? Okay. No. Actually, two. One active corporation that I have.
What are the names of those companies? One is called the Trooper Corp. And what state's that incorporated in? Nevada. And what does it do? It handles the bonding situations with my products that come in. Could you describe that for me -When you import into the United States you have to have a bond. And that company provides the bonds? It holds the bond. Does it have any active business other than just holdings those bonds? It deals with paperwork related to that, yeah. So it's part of the import/export arrangement? Yeah. Is there any other shareholder in that company other than yourself? Yes, my kids. And you had a second company, you said, that was active, also?
Page 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. What's the name of that company? Dual Tracks. And what state is that -- is that a corporation? Nevada. What does it do? It has several patents. Briefly describe -I should say patents or designs. For manufacturing things? Yes. What are the shareholders -- who are the shareholders of that company? Myself and kids. And the -- when was that corporation formed? Oh, these are probably about 2001, maybe, or 2003. Somewhere in there. Let's see. Have you ever -- have you personally been
involved as a party in a lawsuit before? Yes. How many times? I don't know. Have you been a defendant in a lawsuit before? What was your first question again? Have you personally been involved in lawsuits before
Page 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 record. (A short recess was taken.) Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. as a party? Yeah, because you're asking if I'm a defendant or -- I was thinking, well, maybe you asked if it was a plaintiff. No. So make sure I get that distinction. The first was just generally, have you been in lawsuits? Yeah. Okay. The second one was?
Have you been a defendant in lawsuits before, personally? Yes. Are you currently a defendant in any lawsuits? Yes. What lawsuits? Got a lawsuit with FDIC. MR. SIMPSON: Off the record for a moment.
(A short recess was taken.) BY MR. BOYD: Any others than that? I'm getting dry mouth here. Okay. There's water over there. MR. BOYD: There's coffee, pop. Off the
Let's take a break.
Page 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD: I think when we ended, we were talking about the fact that you're a defendant in a current case with the FDIC. What's that case about? Are you saying me personally or are you Go back on the record.
Hold it.
saying Tytan? I was saying you personally. That's the line we were
on, was that you're personally involved as a defendant. Personally, no, I'm not in a lawsuit personally with the FDIC. Okay. But -MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: Go ahead and explain it. The FDIC has a judgment But
against me personally as a guarantor on a loan.
the day before the bank I was dealing with went down, the bank filed on Tytan. And then the next day they
got taken over by the FDIC, so that lawsuit sat out there for over a year. And in December, the Court
told them they're going to throw it out, told the FDIC they're throwing out Cowlitz Bank's suit unless they did something on it. kept it alive. So they did a cut and paste and
Page 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. BY MR. BOYD: Has a judgment been entered in that case? Nothing's been done. Have you personally been involved in any other lawsuits as a defendant? How far back? Last ten years. Yes. I was involved in one in Spokane.
What was that case about? I had -- I was developing a commercial building over there, an old historic brewery building, and had an agreement with the bank for full financing. And got
halfway -- more than halfway done and was on to get the rest of the financing and then they bailed on me, and so we went to court on that. Was a judgment entered in that case? Yeah. Okay. But then I won after the case was over. Please describe how you won. You'll like this one. The -- I had a judgment loss on I lost.
that for $5 million, which was basically the loan plus interest plus attorneys' fees. And then I realized
the bank president who really caused the whole thing wasn't in such a hot relationship with the owner of
Page 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 or -THE WITNESS: MR. BOYD: family law. What was that word -Not including Q. A. Q. A. Q. the -- the owner of the bank, the Bancorp Corporation president. So I wrote the Bancorp president and said, You probably heard
"Hey, you guys just won this case. about it.
You probably don't know the details of it."
But I gave them about 25 pages of stuff plus video deps of his guys saying they had no environmental schooling and a whole bunch of things that were obviously untrue testimony. And I said, This thing's not getting swept under the table. I said, I want the judgment released. He gave me them all back, I
want all my assets back. released the judgment.
And that's filed in public record? Huh? That's filed in public record? Public record. Any other lawsuits that you've been involved in? MR. SIMPSON: Lawsuits, are you including
dissolution of marriage or non-family law stuff? MR. BOYD: Non-family law stuff. So have you ever been divorced
MR. SIMPSON:
Non-family law.
Page 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD: Personal injury. Criminal. Got to ask. Business stuff.
I'm sure there is, but I don't have them on the top of my head right now over ten years. Okay. Might have been -- I also don't really remember if they were corporate or personal, so I'm going to take my vitamin B12. Get my memory brought up, I guess.
With regard to Tytan Holdings, Inc., does it publically file with any agency or annual financial reports, things like that? Yes. With who? It's current. Its status is current.
With what agency? We file with, I believe, Federal and SEC and OTC. Okay. And it's done that since its inception,
whenever -There might be a couple more agencies. Who prepares those filings? We have had those people I mentioned prior do them. Anybody else other than those people? No. Do you review those filings?
Page 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. I haven't. I'm not an expert on everything. I have
to delegate things, and accounting is one area I delegate. I'm going to start handing some exhibits out here. MR. BOYD: This will be Exhibit 1.
(Deposition Exhibit Number 1 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I'll ask you to take a look at this document. (Witness complies.) Do you recognize that document? Yes. What is this document? Looks like a financial years-end of December 31st, 2008, and '9. And if you look on the back page of that document, do you see a signature there? Yes, I do. Is that your signature? Yes, it is. What's the date of this document? 3-25-2010. Do you know if this document was filed with any governmental agency? Yes.
Page 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. With whom? I don't know the answer to that. If you'd look on page -- the fifth page in. Counting five pages in? Counting five pages in, yes. Is that the one labeled -Yes, that is it. What is this page? Consolidated This is
statement of income and retained earnings.
for years-end of December 31, 2009, and 2008? That's what it says, yeah. And there's two columns; one headed 2009, one headed 2008. At the top on the far left it says "income,"
and there's -- the first line is sales, second line is total sales. What do these numbers reflect? I see a cluster
What was the first one that you said? of goods. Is that what you're asking? It's income.
It's up above that.
The top row it says
"income," then "sales" and "total sales." Okay. asking? Uh-huh. Then underneath that it says "sales"? One's income column. Is that what you're
Sales, yeah. What's that row reflect? Sales. And for the years 2009 and 2008?
Page 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Thank you. MR. BOYD: This will be 2.
(Deposition Exhibit Number 2 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I'll ask you to take a look at this document. (Witness complies.) Can you tell me what this document is? Annual report and disclosure statement. And for what company? Tytan Holdings. For what year? Looks like '09. I don't know.
Ask if you'll look on the last page of this document, is that your signature? Yes, it is. And what date was this document signed? 2010. May 19? Yes. Was this document filed with any governmental agencies? I'm sure it was. (Inaudible) on the bottom of Page 3. The bottom of
Page 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. these actually are numbered, so if you'd look at Page 3? MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: Is it numbered?
I they have little -- I'm sorry. The third page in. Including the cover page?
Made copies of this one. MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD:
Yeah, including the cover page. At the very top it says
MR. SIMPSON: December 31, '08? MR. BOYD: midway through. BY MR. BOYD:
That's it, yeah.
It has Part C
If you look at the second paragraph under Part C, it says "Business Development." That first paragraph
generally described what Tytan Holdings was at its formation? What, are you asking me or telling me? I'm asking you if this is a correct description of Tytan Holdings as it came to be and its predecessor entities? This -- this was written by the accountant, Jerry Leslie, who I believe was a stockholder in these previous companies, so I'm assuming that's accurate. Okay. Then if you'd look to the next page. And this
first full paragraph there, it starts, "Tytan
Page 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Yes. Do you believe that was a correct statement at that time? You know, you're kind of asking the wrong guy on all this. The person you should have is the accountant Holdings, Inc., is not in default at the time of the -- in default of the terms of any note, loan, lease, etc." And halfway -- I think it's the third sentence in there, it says, "There are no current, past, pending, or threatened legal proceedings or administrative actions either by or against the company that could have a material effect on the assurer's business, financial condition, or operation." Do you see that?
because he's in charge -- this is his expertise here, and he's the one with the most knowledge. Okay. it? Pardon? Did you review this document before you signed it? I reviewed it, but it's not an area of my expertise that I -- I use a certified accountant to... And that would be Mr. Leslie? Yes. Did you review this document before you signed
Page 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. Let's see. Unfortunately I'm going to have to ask you
about -- go to the 13th page, which is -- actually, at the top of it, it looks like this (indicating). got some quarterly statements. not being numbered. It's
I apologize for those
I thought they were. 13, Don?
MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD:
Yeah.
And at the bottom it has, "Management's decisions and operations," a section started -- entitled that? Uh-huh. And it states, "Tytan International, a wholly owned subsidiary of Tytan Holdings has seen a significant revenue growth through 2009 and early 2010, and is currently estimating about a 43% gain year over year." Do you see that? Uh-huh. Do you know what information that statement was based upon? You know, this was all already covered in the lawsuit arbitration, where Mr. Leslie testified as well as Mr. Jules (phonetic), the attorney there. I'm asking you what -- do you know what information that was based on? I don't have -- it's been a long time ago. I don't
Page 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. really have the exact information in my head. Okay. I'll ask you to take a look at the -- I think
it's -- two, three, four -- sixth from the last page. It looks like this (indicating). MR. SIMPSON: figures, sales? MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD: And basically it's the same question I've asked you on the previous one. It appears to be the consolidated Yes. At the top those same income
statement of income and retained earnings for the year ended December 31, 2009; is that correct? That's what it looks like, yeah. And under the sales information for 2009, it states that there was a 1,518,642 in sales; is correct? Yeah. Okay. It looks like that page we looked at before. Then two pages after that -- take a look and it
should say, "Tytan Holdings Note A is a summary of significant accounting policies and" -Are you looking at that yellow part? I will be, yeah. short-term note. Asking you to take a look at Note B, It says, "Note payable to Cowlitz
Bank under a 650,000 line of credit that expired October 31, and is up for renewal." Is -- was that a statement that you approved with
Page 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. 2009? MR. BOYD: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's -- I regard to this report? MR. SIMPSON: You mean for those years,
THE WITNESS:
approved that that was the record, yeah. BY MR. BOYD: I'm going to hand you what will be marked as Exhibit 3. (Deposition Exhibit Number 3 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: And ask if you recognize this document? It's a quarterly report. For what company? Tytan Holdings. And what period of time? 2010. Is it for -- if you look on the third page, it appears to indicate a three-month quarterly report ending June 30, 2010; is that correct? Yeah. Do you know who prepared this report? Jerry Leslie. If you look on the last page, is that your signature?
Page 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. What's the date? August 5th, 2010. Is that your handwriting for that date? Yes. Do you know if this report was filed or submitted to any governmental agencies? I think so. Okay. I don't know exactly what -- if it's governmental agency or -- you know, I know it was filed. When I
say governmental agency, State of Colorado is a governmental agency to me. clear. With regard to these, were these reports that we're talking about submitted for compliance with reporting obligations of Tytan Holdings? There's obligations that I think they were with the OTC, yes. And do you know if these reports were submitted to comply with those reporting obligations? Well, I don't think they necessarily had obligations. I think to be rated at a certain rating you file to get that rating, and so I think they were filed under that presumption. So I want to make that
Page 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. too. BY MR. BOYD: Is the OTC a governmental agency of any state or federal government? I think it's certainly run by the government. Federal government? I think so. I think they're ones that legislate Q. A. Q. I'd ask you to take a look at the seventh page in here. MR. SIMPSON: Don, for the record, would you I don't know what
please define the term OTC. you're -MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD: Could you define the term --
I'll ask Mr. Leonard.
-- penny (inaudible) stock market. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: Is that the name of it, penny? Pink sheets, they call it,
everything about it, so they seem to run it. Okay. So we're looking at the page that -MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: Page 6?
7, I believe. 7?
MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD:
Yeah, the seventh page in. The one that's 314,000?
MR. SIMPSON:
Page 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD: And could you tell me what this page is? Consolidated statement of income and retained earnings. That's for the three months ending July -- or June 30, 2010? Yes. And in 2009 it would have the same period of time? Yes. For that column? On the top column there, it has sales under income. Yes. And for 2010 it reports sales of $314,418; is that correct? Uh-huh. It doesn't report any income for 2009. I think we saw that on a previous filing (inaudible). And what -We did the 2008 and 2009 previously. Okay. I'm wondering if you have any knowledge as to Do you see that? Yeah.
why there would be no income statement -No, I don't. MR. SIMPSON: That's for the quarter in
Page 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. Do you know at this time of August 5th, 2010, whether Cowlitz County Bank had filed a lawsuit in regards to this matter, to that loan? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. 2009. MR. BOYD: Okay. Yeah. And that's -- I'm
just asking if he has any understanding as to why there would be nothing listed there. THE WITNESS: BY MR. BOYD: Three pages beyond that would be the tenth page. Looks -- top of it is consolidated notes on that page. It says, "Consolidated notes to financial statements for the three months ended June 30, 2010"? there? Where are you looking? On that page -Note B? Up here (indicating)? If you could take a look at Note B at Are you No.
Yeah, Note B. the bottom. Okay. Note B.
Okay.
And for this time frame it states, "Note payable to Cowlitz County Bank under a 700,000 line of credit that expired October 30, 2009, and is up for renewal." Did you approve that statement?
Page 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Yes. In signing this document, did you approve that statement? Yeah, this is that same thing we just covered a minute ago that was covered in arbitration. (Deposition Exhibit Number 4 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: Let me hand you what's been marked as Number 4. you recognize this document? Quarterly report. And for what company? Do A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I'm not sure of the date, no. And ask you to turn to the second to last page at the top. (Witness complies. The top of that page, it has Item IV, Roman numeral IV, plan of operation? Uh-huh. The first sentence says, "Tytan International, a wholly owned subsidiary of Tytan Holdings, Inc., has seen a significant revenue growth through 2009 and early 2010. It's currently estimating about a Are you there?
43 percent gain year over year." You see that statement?
Page 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And this -- the top column here it says, "Sales 2010, $299,001." Yes. And then for 2009 it has a zero entry there, no entry at all. Yes. Do you know why there's no entry for 2009 in that -I don't know the accounting practices. Who prepared the accounting information for this? Jerry Leslie. And if you look at the back page here, is that your signature? Yes. What date did you sign this? You see that? You see that? A. Q. A. Q. Tytan Holdings. And looking on the third page, is this for the period of months ending September 30, 2010? Yeah. And 2009? And I'll ask you to take a look at the sixth page in this. And it's the -- titled "Consolidated
financial statements for three months ended September 30, 2010, and '9." Do you see that?
Page 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. December 8th, 2010. And did you review this document before you signed it? Yes. (Deposition Exhibit Number 5 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'll hand you what will be marked as Exhibit 5. Luckily, these actually do have numbers on the pages. Do you recognize this document? Annual report for Tytan Holdings. It says it's a revised annual report for December 31, 2010. Uh-huh. Was there a prior report that was submitted? That's what it sounds like. Do you know why this was revised? I don't remember. Ask you to take a look at Page 15, and the pages are on the bottom right. Okay. And this is a consolidated statement on income and retained earnings. It says sales for 2010 were
585,077; is that correct? That's what it says, yeah. And for 2009, a million 515,642?
Page 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. on? MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD: The first item talks about the recession and apparently the difficulty of financing by buyers. That's the first entry there; is that correct? Yes. And the second entry is EPA emission requirements that have changed. Yes. Then the third entry is this lawsuit with Mr. Bogden; is that correct? Yes. I'm going to ask you to take a look at Page 45. you recognize this document? Do Is that the second entry? Page 32. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. That's what it says. Do you know who prepared the financial information? Jerry Leslie. And ask you to take a look at Page 32. (Witness complies. In the middle of the page under Item 16, the bottom of that first paragraph it says, "There are three main things that negatively affected the company's bottom line." And it recites three items. MR. SIMPSON: I'm sorry. What page are we
Page 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. And what is this document? This is an appeal, I guess, where they went after the guarantor, the bank did. And so this appeal -- on the first large paragraph there, the last sentence states that on October 29, 2009, Cowlitz Bank declared Tytan in default of the loan? Yes. Is that a true, correct statement? That's what they declared. Is this the lawsuit you were talking about that's still ongoing? I'm not sure the dates whether -- I assume it is, but I don't know for sure. Okay. Thank you.
(Deposition Exhibit Number 6 marked for Identification) BY MR. BOYD: Q. I'm going to hand you what's going to be marked as Number 6. Do you recognize this document?
I think I've seen it. What is this? Some stock guy's opinion or something. In this penny stock, are there a lot of internet sites
Page 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. date. BY MR. BOYD: Okay. It's November 10, 2009, is actually when it was A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. that talk about penny stocks? Yes. And do you have any idea how many? No. More than this Penny Stock Guru? Well, we just said there was many of them, so. If you look at this, this is dated apparently January 12th, 2010; is that correct? Yes. And in reading this -Did you say 2010? 2010. Oh, I see. I see. MR. SIMPSON: If you look up here, you see a On the bottom?
written. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Okay. And this report generally seems to be a
positive report regarding Tytan Holdings; is that correct? I don't know. I really haven't read it.
(Deposition Exhibit Number 7 marked for identification.)
Page 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. BY MR. BOYD: I'll hand you what's going to be marked as 7, I believe. No. Is this same -- appears to be the same Penny Stock Guru -Yeah. Okay. The date here is April 21, 2010; is that Ask you if you've ever seen this document?
correct? Appears to be. Second paragraph there, it starts, "For those of you unfamiliar with TYTN." TYTN, is that your Tytan
International or Tytan Holdings, is that its trade designation? Stock designation, yes. It says here, following on, "It was a shell stock until late last year." It says, "Do a search for TYTN
on this blog and you will find a few posts I did last year." And then it says, "Tytan International, Inc., You see that?
was brought into the shell." Uh-huh.
Do you know who writes this Penny Stock Guru blog? Don't know a thing about it. Okay. Down below there, it has a box that has some
italicized writing next to it starting with, "Tytan
Page 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Holdings, Inc., entered into a letter of intent in regards," etc., etc. Yes. And going on to the next page. Do you know who -- it Do you see that?
says that this is a quick snippet from the company overview. language? No. Do you know whether that language was on your company website? I'm not sure. Again, in reading this, does it appear to be a positive comment about Tytan Holdings? I haven't read it. If you want to take a minute, why don't you go ahead and read it. (Witness complies.) MR. SIMPSON: Don, if you go to Page 3 at Do you know who prepared that italicized
the -- not the very top but where says, "posted by Robert Wilcox." MR. BOYD: Uh-huh. Okay.
THE WITNESS: BY MR. BOYD:
And on the second page, the second full paragraph from the bottom says, "It gets better. The company's
Page 65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. expecting a 43 percent growth in revenue for 2010. And that is on top of already growing numbers in 2009." Do you see that?
Where are you looking? This -Oh, down here at the bottom? On the bottom. Yeah, that's the same deal again that we were referring to that was covered in the arbitration. But that information is taken from your company official filings with the governmental agencies? Like I said, I don't really know exactly, when you use governmental agencies, who we filed anything with. know we just file with the OTC. I don't know -- and I
we file some stuff with the State, but I don't know exactly what. But that's the same comment that was taken from your filings with the OTC that we had in Exhibits 1 through 5; is that correct? I assume so. I don't -- I have seen that 43 percent,
but I don't know where we sent anything out to governmental agencies with that on it other than the reports that you were talking about. (Deposition Exhibit Number 8 marked for identification.)
Page 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. BY MR. BOYD: Okay. I'll hand you what's going to be marked as Do you recognize this document?
Number 8. No.
Do you know what Marketwire is? Oh, yeah. things. This is dated March 4, 2010; is that correct? Yes. What is Marketwire? They put announcements up there, things that are happening. Is that an internet site? Yes. What's the site intended to do? Make a announcements. Okay. What's the target audience for Marketwire? That's the one that gets promotional
Stock people. It says, "Tytan CEO sees revenues up, predicts further growth." Yes. Did you talk to somebody at Marketwire? No. Do you know how they got this information? I'm not exactly sure, no. It might have been through Do you see that?
Page 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. our accountant. It could have been through a PR guy.
I don't know which way, but this was covered in the arbitration. And the people testified that -- gave
satisfactory answers on this thing. The second paragraph in there, it says, "When asked about what guides his growth plans for Tytan, CEO Mark Leonard said" -- there's a quote. Is that your quote?
That's pretty much my feeling about service. You don't recall ever talking to somebody from Marketwire, though? I don't know. It's been a long time. I very well
could have and I -- nobody ever asked me about using a quote of mine, but it certainly reflects our strategy of having good service. (Deposition Exhibit Number 9 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm going to hand you what's being marked as Exhibit 9. Do you recognize this document?
Is this a Marketwire? Yes. It appears the date here is January 9, 2012.
Uh-huh. First paragraph says, "Tytan Holdings is pleased to announce back in late December of 2011, the company acquired Tytan Leasing"; is that correct?
Page 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Yes. And basically, what is Tytan Leasing, Inc.? It was a company that we were going to -well,
actually, we purchased to do dealer and retail financing. Is it still an active company? It's not quite developed yet in some respects. we're working on it. Is it actively doing any business right now? I'm not sure. Has it ever actively done any business? Initially we had -- I don't think I can make an accurate statement on that. I don't really -- I don't And
have any separate records that I could use off of that right now. It probably would be coming up here in the
next financials. Okay. Who's the owners -- who are the shareholders of
Tytan Leasing, Inc.? Tytan Holdings. Sole ownership in Tytan Holdings? Yes. Who's the officer of Tytan Leasing, Inc. -- officers? Excuse me. That would be Tytan Holdings. If they own it, it
would be the same as Tytan Holdings.
Page 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Does it have an individual who is the president of Tytan Leasing? Yeah. I believe I am.
Are there any other officers? I'm not sure. What corporation -- or what state is Tytan Leasing incorporated in? This company was purchased from Jerry Leslie and Paul Stringer, two stockholders. Did they purchase the stock or the assets? They -Tytan Holdings, did it purchase the stock of the company or the assets of the company, of Tytan Leasing or -It was -- I believe it was the assets, but I -- I haven't looked at the documents on that for quite a while either. In the second paragraph it starts, "Tytan Leasing will also make its programs available to Tytan dealers." The next sentence, "This purchase was made possible in part by the first release of funds from the Bogden bankruptcy case." Do you see that?
Do you know who provided that information to the person who wrote this? I'm pretty sure probably my account.
Page 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And who would that be? Huh? Who would that be, your accountant? Jerry Leslie. Income statements, we looked at Exhibits 1 through 5. They say they're consolidated. What does that mean?
You know, you're going to have to talk to the accountants on that stuff. I'm not a terminology
expert when it comes to accounting. Do you know what other businesses Tytan Holdings was doing in 2009 and 2010 to earn income other than Tytan tractor -- or Tytan International? We already answered that once already. through this. We did at the beginning, we -I said I would provide you the information so you get the right time and the right company names and everything. Okay. So -MR. SIMPSON: We previously talked -- well, We went right
basically from 2003 on apparently is when we need is I guess 2009, 2010, 2011. Whatever Tytan Holdings MR. BOYD: Well, we -- basically from 2003
on, apparently, is what we need is that -- I guess 2009, 2010, 2011, whatever Tytan Holdings --
Page 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. sources. MR. SIMPSON: '9 and '10? MR. BOYD: For -- yeah. Okay. And you want those for 2008, MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: I've got a list of assets.
Well, but also income, yeah,
MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD: Okay.
You at some point -- or Tytan International at
some point entered into a dealer agreement, you said, with Mitch Bogden. That was the only dealer agreement
you ever entered -- Tytan International's ever entered into? Yes. Obviously, things did not go well at some point and there were some problems in 2007, 2008, with certain tractors that were sold by Mitch Bogden that were Tytan tractors; is that correct? That is what Mr. Bogden claimed. Do you recall a gentleman by the name of Jake Conner? Vaguely. Some guy in Cashmere he sold a tractor to
and then swapped one out with and different things. (Deposition Exhibit Number 10 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD:
Page 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. I'm going hand you what's marked -- which we marked as 10. Do you recognize this document? MR. SIMPSON: Don, just for the record,
while he can identify the document, it's obviously hearsay. BY MR. BOYD: Do you recognize this document? Vaguely. Okay. The first page at the top appears to be an
e-mail from Mitch Bogden to you; is that correct? Yes. Do you recall receiving this e-mail? Yes. And this e-mail sounds like it relates to a complaint from Mr. Conner. It says, "E-mail is below." Do you
recall seeing that e-mail from Mr. Conner? It's not real fresh on my memory, but I remember this situation. It was also brought up in the arbitration. It appears to
You looking at the second page there?
be your reply later December -- or actually, your reply on December 15, a couple days prior to that with regard to this matter. e-mail? Yes. Actually, it's Mr. Conner's e-mail to Mitch that talks Do you recall writing that
Page 73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. about the issues. It's the second page. Is that the one with "I'm sure
MR. SIMPSON:
the 334 problem is simple"? MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD: And this -- this is your statement to Mitch on December 15th; is that correct? Yeah. And on the first page, that is Mr. Conner's comment about the fact that there's a transmission problem; is that correct? MR. SIMPSON: I didn't follow. BY MR. BOYD: On the first page, these -- the e-mail from Jake Conner on the bottom, Saturday, December 15, 2007, 1:50 PM. That's to Mitch, which was forwarded to Don, would you ask that again? Yeah.
Mr. Leonard. Okay. Explains -What's your question? Does that explain Mr. Conner's claim that the transmission actually broke; it's not a shifting problem? Well, it might have been his explanation, but the
Page 74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. problem with this whole thing is we never really were able to see the problem, nor was it properly identified to make an evaluation of it. (Deposition Exhibit Number 11 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm going to hand you what will be marked as 11. you recognize this document? Yes. Is this an e-mail from you to Mitch Bogden? Yes. Dated December 18, 2007? Uh-huh. In here, the first sentence you're -- is that your statement? "Hi, Mitch, I'm planning to swap the Do
tractor tomorrow or Friday with the Cashmere guy"? Yes. We were anxious to find out what the problem was
and this was a way to do it. (Deposition Exhibit Number 12 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm going to hand you what we'll mark as 12. recognize this document? Yes. And it's an e-mail from -- at the bottom, from you to Do you
Page 75 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Mitch, December 20th, and then his reply to you the 21st of December, 2007; is that correct? Yes. And this point, you're commenting to Mitch that you're looking for weather reports? I presume this was to
get up to Cashmere; is that correct? Yes. And then Mitch coming on -- or commenting back to you that the weather was not looking good for that day and that Mitch at that point was then taking a replacement tractor to this -- to Mr. Conner; is that correct? What was that again now? That -- the second paragraph of Mitch's reply at the top. Yeah. He is taking the customer a replacement today. He lent him some other customer's tractor, if I
remember this correct. And at the bottom paragraph -- or the bottom sentence, I guess there are two sentences of Mitch's e-mail. On
the top it says, "With the snow coming, this customer would have lost his patience and started complaining to the bank, so I better get him taken care of." that -- do you recall that -- receiving that from Mitch? That's the job of a dealer that sells a tractor. And this was three days after you said you were Is
Page 76 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. planning to swap Mr. Conner a tractor? Well, we were having trouble analyzing what the problem was. We were getting different stories and
weren't getting anything clear exactly what was wrong with it. There was also some phone calls in between
all of this, so that's what the situation was. And we only had a two-wheel drive truck at the time, so our mode of getting up there was either going up through Goldendale or going over White Pass, and neither looked good for our truck. (Deposition Exhibit Number 13 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'll hand you what will be marked as 13. recognize this? Yes. What is this document? Yeah, it looks like -- I think this is just more discussion of the same thing. Okay. That is the same -- it's the same exact letter you showed me before here from here on down (indicating). The top one, is that your e-mail to Mitch? Yeah. Part of the problem here was that we just had Do you
let everybody go over Christmas.
Page 77 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. From the 21st through the 26th? I don't remember exact time duration, but it was -definitely included those days. (Deposition Exhibit Number 14 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm handing you what's been marked as 14. recognize this document? Yes. Is this your e-mail to Mitch on December 23, 2007? Yes. And you wrote this? Yes. And this deals with Mr. Conner and his tractor issue? Yes. In this you say that you were -- you would have run up there, but giving loaners always kills sales? No. Your drawing a conclusion. I said loaners killed Do you
sales.
The answer is to fix -- get the tractor back. And I said,
He couldn't get the tractor back himself. "Hey, get the tractor back, fix it." dealer obligations are.
That's what the
Giving loaners back --
especially when he's giving another customer's tractor to this guy. situations. That's what he'd done on numerous He's got somebody else's tractor in for
Page 78 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. service and gives it to the guy. to -I mean, basically this is December 23. This is five Well, that's no way
days after you told Mitch that you were going to pick up the tractor. Yeah, we -And then the second paragraph there you state that "I got a phone message from this guy griping about not being over there," correct? Yeah. "I told him we would get there as soon the weather cleared up and we are able to schedule it." We had several things that were working here at one time. Number one, we were looking at Christmas We're looking at
vacation with key people gone.
weather, and we're looking at a lot different things. And we're looking to do Mr. Bogden's work for him. And I was -- I had told him on a phone call to just pick the thing up and it -- because Cashmere's way out of the way, but -Midway through that paragraph it says, "He wasn't patient and said on our answering machine I promised -- I had promised him." Yeah. Okay.
Page 79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Yeah. Don. MR. BOYD: Okay. I must have skipped over one. Sorry. 2007. THE WITNESS: MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: on the same document? MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: You're on 106. Let's see. We're 23rd, you mean? 23rd. Are we A. Q. Q. (Deposition Exhibit Number 15 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: On the bottom it's an e-mail from you to Mitch Bogden December 24th; is that correct? Which one now? The bottom of Page 1. MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: It's in the large font, Mitch. What date, Don?
It looks like it's December 24th,
Talk about -- let's see.
No, no.
talking about different documents. MR. SIMPSON: That's the one you gave me,
I skipped over one.
BY MR. BOYD: December 23rd. Okay. What do you want?
This is Mitch's e-mail to you on December 23rd; is
Page 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. that correct? Yes. And at this point, Mitch is stating that he is going to talk to Mr. Conner about intent to swap tractors; is that correct? Right. And indicating that Mr. Conner's already sent a demand letter for the refund of his down payment. the second paragraph. Yes. And at the end of that third paragraph, Mr. Bogden is commenting about the warranty issues and that -- that there's issues that the customer may raise with regard to -- you know, if there are mechanical flaws, that they could make all sorts of claims; is that correct? Your sentence doesn't make sense -Basically, it's -- at the end he's saying -- last -second to last -- "Even if you can't call it a mechanical flaw, they can claim it is a design flaw"; is that correct? I can read that's what it says. So Mr. Bogden was notifying you that, you know, with a -- with problems like this, customers, if they weren't taken care of, could start raising other additional legal issues; is that correct? That's in
Page 81 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. They could. Then if you'd look at Page 129, it's -- I guess at the bottom of page -- couple numbers here. TCO Number 129? Okay. And this is -- at the bottom it's an e-mail from J. Conner to Mitch. At the top it appears that that was And Mr. Conner, then, is
then forwarded on to you.
also raising the issue that the three-point hitch lift arm broke; is that correct? Where are you at now? It's the bottom -- it's from J -Yes. And so that's another problem with one of the tractors? Well, yes. But this is also what this -- we have all
kinds of continuing information coming up where -- and when this one came through, the guy -- Mitch is telling me that the guy's going in reverse with a blade on the back and broke the three-point arms. That tells me -- I've never had three-point arms break, and that tells me the guy hit something. then we go on to discuss that. So it -- then it And
starts looking like it's not a warranty issue. (Deposition Exhibit Number 16 marked for
Page 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. identification.) BY MR. BOYD: Hand you what's going to be marked as 16. recognize this document? Yes. At the bottom here it's your e-mail to Mitch on December 24th at 8:38 in the morning; is that correct? Yes. And on this you're saying that -- the second or third sentence -- I guess fourth sentence, the third line down, "We will go to Cashmere at the earliest best weather time." Is that your statement? Do you
I said it would also help if the customer could keep us up on the aspect of the weather. And this is eight days after your e-mail of December 18th saying that you were going to go up there to swap the tractor tomorrow or Friday; is that correct. We'd been pressured by Mr. Bogden to help him out and we tried to, but we just couldn't make it work at that time. But then information was changing on what the And then it started looking
problem was continually.
like it was not a warranty issue whatsoever. Do you have any e-mails stating that -- that it wasn't a warranty issue, that it wasn't the transmission's
Page 83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. reverse idle gear that had failed? I don't recall anything about any details would have happened down the line with this guy's particular tractor. Or any e-mails that say that the weld on the hitch weren't -Just a minute here. -- wasn't faulty? The rule we have on our warranty is that we have to have the items back so we can inspect them. We've
never had anything back from your client to inspect. Whether it's this guy -- and that's always the problem that we've had, and that's a condition of our warranty. And we would like to have helped this guy,
but then all of the sudden we had a problem with the weather. Then we started hearing other things that --
going in reverse with a snow blade means if -- if you're going to break something, it's because you've hit something. That's the most logical conclusion.
Did you or any of your employees ever go up to Mr. Conner's property? No, we did not. Okay. Thank you. That's why he was asking us
And Mitch didn't either. to.
Page 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. (Deposition Exhibit Number 17 marked for identification.) Look -- I'm going to hand you what's going to be marked as 17. (A short recess was taken.) BY MR. BOYD: I think we were looking at Exhibit 17. recognize this document? Yes. It appears to be an e-mail you sent to Mitch Bogden on December 26, 2007, at 11:52 AM; is that correct? Yes. First sentence there you say, "We have a tractor here anytime if you want to pick one up and drop the other off. We talked with him this AM and weather is bad." Do you
I presume "him" in that second sentence means Mr. Conner? I'm not sure about that. But I know the first
sentence is relating to getting Mitch a tractor for the guy. Okay. Well, yeah, the next sentence shows it's -- it is showing that White Pass thing. Actually, the next one is two pages further along in the same e-mail, Page 3 of 6, or TCO Number 149. Do
Page 85 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. you recognize this? Yes. Looking at the top. It's an e-mail from Mitch to you
on December 24th, which is a couple days earlier. Mitch says, "I guess I'm confused at this point. are no longer going to send someone to bring up a replacement tractor to the customer and take back the tractor with a broken transmission?" You asking me something? Yeah. Is that -- do you recall receiving that You
document, that e-mail? Yeah. I don't really see -- it looks like an excerpt I didn't
of something because where's the rest of it? sign off "Mark" like I always do. wondering. Well, I'm talking about the top part. e-mail to you. Yeah. That's why I say. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: BY MR. BOYD:
That's why I'm
That's Mitch's
That looks like an excerpt. It's from Mitch to Mark. Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah.
And then below that was your e-mail to him the day before, on the 23rd. That second sentence is, "We
never had a bad one so we're curious"? Uh-huh.
Page 86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. You've never had that problem with your tractor -- one of your tractors? Not like that. Okay. Yeah, we're getting a lot of these things on these different exhibits to look like the same things being put in here all at different orders. (Deposition Exhibit Number 18 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: Let's see. Handing you what's been marked as 18. Do
you recognize this document? Yes. What is this document? Well, first part's talking about Jinma, one of the competitive lines that was visiting my facility. Is this your e-mail to Mark -- or to Mitch? Yes. This was dated August 25th, 2007? Yes. (Deposition Exhibit Number 19 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: 19. Do you recognize this document?
Looks like something that went between us for sure.
Page 87 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. And this also talks about Jinma? Yes. And this is Mitch's e-mail to you about the Jinma line of tractors? Yes. MR. BOYD: Let's take a break for a second.
(A short recess was taken.) (Deposition Exhibit Number 20 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: Do you recognize this document? Well, I don't recognize it, but I do recognize the numbers at the bottom. I guess it's been registered
in the previous case -- arbitration. And it appears that this is an e-mail from Mitch to you again discussing Jinma tractors? On that first
page, the second to the last full paragraph starts with "anyway," do you see that? Uh-huh. Midway through that comment, it says, "I do not mind paying more for the tractors if they perform." see that sentence? I don't see that second sentence you just mentioned, the one about paying more. MR. SIMPSON: It's right -Do you
Page 88 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. THE WITNESS: BY MR. BOYD: You see at the end where he's -- Mitch is commenting about that there have been problems with the Chinese tractors? I presume that's the Tytan tractors he's Oh, down there. Okay.
talking about? I wouldn't know. Chinese tractors. Do you have any reason to believe it wasn't talking -referring to you that these -- (inaudible) were you selling him other Chinese tractors other than the Tytan's? I'll just tell you a little slogan that we go with. A He carried a lot of different
problem is not a problem unless you can't take care of it. Well, were you selling him any other -I didn't have any problem -- I never have had any major problems. Were you selling him any other Chinese tractors other than Tytan's? Oh, he was looking at an Ibex line that we were going to carry possibly. Did you sell him any other tractors other than Tytan tractors? No.
Page 89 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. The last paragraph there, it says, "Tomorrow I'm going to take time away from the office to make sure the Cashmere tractor gets fixed. And at the same time,
going to take one of my other 334s as a loaner to a customer who has a broken Yanmar in the hopes they upgrade." Uh-huh. At this point in December, he was doing what he could to take care of Mr. Conner and also provide your tractor to somebody else in the hope that they would upgrade? Well, I think he's talking about the same customer there if you read the previous stuff. Conner a Yanmar as well. Did Mr. Conner originally have a Tytan? Originally. Then he was given a Yanmar and then he He loaned You see that?
was given a Bellingham guy's Tytan -- customer's Tytan. Swapping tractors is only because you can't do The quickest and easiest thing to
the service work. do is fix it.
(Deposition Exhibit Number 21 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: Going to hand you what's going to be marked as Exhibit 21.
Page 90 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: Was this one 20 (indicating)?
That was 20. You already got this one in
THE WITNESS: here, by the way. BY MR. BOYD: Okay.
It will be marked as its own, I guess.
Maybe
that's where the copy went. Do you recognize this document? I don't particularly recognize it. of my letters, though. Do you believe Mitch there is Mitch Bogden? Yes. On the third paragraph from the bottom it says -starts with "The axel"? Yes. Do you see that? Tytan tractors? Yes. It says, "Happy New Year." Not a date here, but do Is that your comments about axles on It looks like one
you believe that would have been probably New Year of 2008? I'm not sure. MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: Don, what date did you ask?
January 2008. This is Number 19.
MR. SIMPSON:
Page 91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. next year. (Deposition Exhibit Number 22 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: Okay. Handing you what will be marked as 22. Do you (Inaudible) started as. which is 81 down here. MR. BOYD: Then we go to the next page, Then the "Hi, Mitch."
Okay. That's the date, then -- the
THE WITNESS:
date looks like it's December 27, 2007. MR. BOYD: Okay. So -- okay.
MR. SIMPSON:
Which is close to January the
recognize this document? Yes. Is this -- the top is your e-mail to Mitch, January 6, 2008? Yeah. And there you say that you've shipped tons of tractors and not one transmission problem; is that correct? Not this particular transmission problem like this, no. Then below that, Mitch's e-mail to you. The first
sentence there -- or first paragraph there he says he's -- the customer in Cashmere had the second tractor, lost the transmission?
Page 92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Uh-huh. Then at the very bottom paragraph, it says -- now this is interesting -- comments that the other guy in Cashmere who lost his Yanmar now wants an older style Tytan; is that correct? Yeah. Okay. So it sounds like there's two different people And that
involved here, it's not Mr. Conner for both.
looks like Mitch is attempting to resolve the issue by giving him the Tytan tractor; is that correct? That's what it looks like. that's right. Looks like he -- yeah,
This is where he swapped another
customer's tractor out to that guy. And he's providing another tractor to the other guy to -- a new one to make up for the gentleman in Bellingham's problem; is that correct? I'm not sure. (Deposition Exhibit Number 23 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: 23? And do you recognize this document?
Yeah, I know this one. In the third line -- this is Mitch's e-mail to you January 7, 2008. Third line, it says, "You offered to Then
send a mechanic and replace the tractor before."
Page 93 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. there was the issue of snow on the pass. Do you
dispute that you offered to send a mechanic and replacement tractor to Mitch? At one time -- I'm just recalling that situation. think -- but then we also started getting different things that broke along with it. And, you know, we're We're I
not seeing any tractors getting repaired here.
just seeing him swapping everything in sight, and that's not the job of a dealer, to fix it. And we are not getting -- you know, we had previously asked to see the tractors brought down to our place, I believe. And we just finally offered to
go up and pick the thing up before Christmas, but that just didn't work out. Ultimately, wasn't it determined that there was faulty parts in at least 16 of these tractors? No. We got 16 tractors -- well, there was 16 tractors
in with idler gear problems, that was the wrong part put in. The other dealers and myself, we all Instantly didn't
exchanged them out and fixed them. have anymore problems.
And that occurred after this period of time; is that correct? Well, we -- no. We did not know until March exactly We had no idea for
what this idler gear problem was.
Page 94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. ourselves, even about the 16 tractors, because we couldn't get this thing back to look at it. All we do
is get e-mails and e-mails and e-mails and no repair, no pictures, nothing. The last paragraph of Mitch's e-mail to you here, it starts with, "If this particular situation does not get resolved quickly, in effect, we'll have significant problems. capable." This customer's credible and
Do you recall Mitch sending that
information to you? I recall it. But when you have that exclusive dealer
in that area, who's going to be responsible for significant problems to get repaired? (Deposition Exhibit Number 24 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm going to hand you what's going to be marked as 24. Do you recognize this document? Yeah, I do. And this is your e-mail to Mitch on January 7, 2008? Right. In this you're discussing that you -- you and your guys discussed what was done with Mr. Conner's tractors? Yeah.
Page 95 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. At that point, had you had anybody go up there to take a look at it? It's not our job to go up there. We had offered to
help him before Christmas, but that's the job of the dealer that handles that exclusive area. And despite your prior statements that you were going to go up there; is that correct? We tried to -- we tried to get him to come pick them up and he wouldn't or didn't have a trailer or something, so we tried to get him to go to his place. And there was a mix up. And then we tried to go over
to Cashmere and the weather wasn't permitting, and that was Christmas and everything else. (Deposition Exhibit Number 25 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: 25. Yes. It looks like it says -- series of documents the -starting with the bottom is your e-mail that we just talked about in 24. And then the next -- the middle You recognize this document?
of the page is Mitch's reply to you about that, and his comment. That probably is the largest flaw in the
below argument is the three point is clearly a flawed casting from the factory. I have it here when you
Page 96 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. want to see it. The flaw is right" -- is, I think
it's supposed to be "in" or "is right" is done twice -- "the weakest part of the linkage." Then your comment above that is to Mitch. three point may not have a good weld," etc. "The
Was that
your comment to him about the problem with this -But by the way, the accident had to happen and what happened are still a giveaway to me. and I'll swap it as we want to see it. job. We want to see the stuff. You got a whole pile of stuff here and that's exactly what we don't want. We want to get the thing Took us till It's all Bring one down That's our
fixed, want to see what the problem is. March to finally find out what was wrong. speculative other than that. But you never had anybody go up there?
It's not our job to do that when we give a guy a dealership. It's not our job. We tried to help him
before Christmas.
It didn't work out.
You never had anybody go up there at any time? No, I didn't. (Deposition Exhibit Number 26 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: 26. Do you recognize document?
Page 97 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. And this is Mitch's e-mail to you on January 21, 2008? Uh-huh. I don't see 21 on here. Sent January 21, 2008. Right --
Up at the top.
What I'm looking at is January 28th. MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: I'm looking at 28th, too. Let me take a look.
Okay.
MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD: So 26 is January 28th.
It's TCO Number 201, Don.
Series of e-mails between you
and Mitch; is that correct? Yes. And basically at that point -- I guess the bottom one is the first one and the top one is your reply two days later. So the first line is a January 26 e-mail
from Mitch to you, and this talks about him bringing the two tractors to swap; is that correct? Yes. And so as of January 28th, you hadn't sent anybody up to see the tractors or been able to see the tractors; is that correct? No. We'd asked to see what was wrong with those
tractors and he wouldn't provide that information. And then thinking -- and swapping tractors? Pardon?
Page 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And then at the bottom he's -- Mitch's e-mail on the 26th says, "Please get back to me to confirm and I will plan a visit midweek"; is that correct? Yes. (Deposition Exhibit Number 27 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: Then I'm going to hand you what's 27. recognize this document? I don't recall the first top part there at all. Do you dispute you ever received that e-mail? I don't know. I'm starting to wonder about a lot of Do you
these right now. (Deposition Exhibit Number 28 marked for identification.) MR. SIMPSON: Last one was 27? Yeah.
THE COURT REPORTER: BY MR. BOYD: Do you recognize this document? Yes. Is this your e-mail to Mitch? Yes. Dated February 9, 2008? Yes.
And at the top, it says, "We cannot" -- or the first
Page 99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. sentence, "We cannot take back. essentially now used"? Yes. Okay. And this would be in response, apparently, to The two tractors are
either Mitch's e-mails on January 28th about swapping the two tractors? Where is that? The prior exhibits, 27 and 26. It says here in that January 28th that you're pointing to, my note to Mitch says, "I will want to see those two tractors soon to diagnosis the problem." I'm asking is your -- Exhibit 27 is your reply to Mitch and his prior e-mails? We've got months of that tractor being up there with problems, and I don't know if -- with all sorts of input as to what caused things. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: Take a look at Page 2. Yeah. And Mitch wasn't All this time had And even after
really -- that's another thing.
been gone by with this one customer.
the weather did clear up, he never took care of it. You know, that was his original thing, is he couldn't get up there in the weather and apparently he didn't have a trailer that would work good in that weather. And so we were going to go help him, but then he
Page 100 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. got -- sent us this e-mail here and said, "Hey, that's -- it's on the back burner." BY MR. BOYD: He'd already -- isn't it true that he'd already taken up a replacement, one tractor? Yeah, but that's not solving the problem of the tractors. That's what we talking about. We don't I --
care about Yanmar tractors.
We're talking about the
tractors that we have to have some kind of -- even if he'd sent us pictures. That's what in our agreement.
You got to provide pictures, provide the actual product back, something so we can see if its a warranty issue. And furthermore, what we found out in the arbitration is the tractors that we -- that -- for example, the one that he used as his prime example, the one and only tractor that broke on the front axel deal, the other two were preventative medicine, he said. The only one to break was Steve Olsen's. He
sold that -- we found out that tractor was sold as is. It had been sold prior. Here's a list of all the
prior sales of his tractors. So, you know, we're not really dealing with a square deck here. Wasn't it true that mid-December you had promised or
Page 101 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. told Mr. Conner that you would go up there and have somebody go up there? Mitch had called me up to go up there, and I -- we were totally willing to help him out until the weather and the Christmas all -- nothing seemed to work. Then
the weather was cleared up and it really was no reason he couldn't take care of it. And as of February, the weather had cleared up and you hadn't gone up there either; is that true? It's not my job to go up there. Mr. Conner states that you had promised that you would; is that correct? I -- I don't know about what Mr. Conner -- he made a statement in there that he thought he was -- we were coming up at that one time, but doesn't mean that that was all we could do. Do you know a person by the name of Eddie Monk (phonetic)? Yes, I do. How do you know him? Eddie Monk bought a tractor from us and -- well, no. Eddie Monk did not buy a tractor from us, his sister in Oregon bought a tractor from us down in southern Oregon. And he was going to deliver it down there.
Well, in reality, after a while we found out that
Page 102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. that was not the case. He bought the tractor to avoid And then we also
not paying Washington State taxes.
found out he was using that tractor for commercial purposes, which is void of our warranty. helped him out at every point. Did he sue you? He sued us. Do you know a company called Cowlitz Tractor? Who? Cowlitz Tractor? Yes. And how do you know them? They were making some untrue statements. Did they sue you? Yes. Well, they didn't sue; we sued. We still
What was that suit about? Defamation. How was that resolved? We won. Okay. Is that a public record judgment? I don't recall. It was -- we won. That's
I imagine. all I know.
Do you know a gentleman by the name of Richard Belanger? MR. SIMPSON: Would you spell the last name.
Page 103 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. MR. BOYD: B-E-L-A-N-G-E-R. Yeah, I think I do. I think
THE WITNESS:
he's a guy from Montana that was a customer of Hoaglund Equipment. BY MR. BOYD: And do you know if there was any lawsuit involved there? Not that I know. Do you know people by the name of Tanya and Kurt Browning? I know that Mr. Bogden sued them and lost. I know. Do you know, was that a tractor that you direct shipped -It was a tractor he swapped out again. Tractor that -- same stuff. Didn't fix it. That's all
Didn't do the service.
Do you know a person by the name of Rick Cox? Yes, I do . Was there any problems? Did he buy a tractor?
Yeah, Rick Cox bought a tractor from Mitch Bogden, and the tractor was a used tractor. to legal blows. And they almost went
We talked to the guy and we sent a Mr. Bogden
guy down to Arizona and took care of him.
knew the tractors had a problem before he shipped them.
Page 104 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And what was the problem? He surmised they had a problem, but he didn't know. Did Mr. Cox claim that there was a front steering bracket that broke? I don't know anything about the front steering bracket. Were there problems with steering brackets on some of these tractors that were Tytan tractors? No. No? Well, which ones are you talking about? specific. Any. Did you -- did Tytan tractors have any Let's talk
complaints from people? You mentioned that -- that gal that he sued, I never talked to her. You mentioned Eddie Monk, he didn't He never had a steering bracket He had a 24 set That's
buy a 334 or a 324. problem.
You mentioned Mr. Cox.
roller pin out in his clutch. all.
That come out.
Same things that was wrong with Fred Kramer's tractor. tractor. issues. What about the sparks? Same thing that was wrong with Harvey's It's just a -- they were small, small
Page 105 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. A. Sparks? Sparks, I don't recall exactly what his deal
was, but I know that he was lifting a stump that was extremely heavy. The tires were depressed, which is a And I know that he had
symbol that it's overloaded. used it very abruptly.
And I know also that he had
bent his tie rod several times. How do you know this? Because there's some correspondence on his tie rods, and we sold him tie rods. How do you know that the tires were depressed and that he was -Mr. Bogden's got a written up synopsis of the tires being depressed. While this -While with the stump. MR. SIMPSON: Don, do you want a copy? I'll There's also a picture of it.
get a copy of that picture. MR. BOYD: Yeah, sure. Yeah. Because that picture was in
THE WITNESS: MR. SIMPSON: his pre statement proof. Wasn't it. THE WITNESS: MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD:
Yeah. The arbitration.
Page 106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Do you know a company called Spring Valley Equipment? Yes, I do. Did they ever have any problems with tractors that they -- Tytan tractors that they had sold? He had some kind of problem with a pump or something like that. I don't remember exactly what it was.
Do you know a gentleman named Steve Rebrovich (phonetic)? Yes, I do. Did he have any problems with a Tytan tractor that he'd purchased? Rebrovich called up to buy some parts. We packed the
order, shipped it, asked for the credit card. Wouldn't supply a credit card. them back in stock. again. We took the goods, put
He went through the same routine
It was a lot of small, little parts, and he We don't do that. It was
wanted the items itemized.
an assembly that we were selling and we're not going to break the items down. We gave him a dealer in Idaho to -- that would break the parts down for him and he declined buying from him. And from there on, your client has revved
the guy up to be a real Rebrovich. And Steve Olsen? Yeah, you should read the letter that was introduced
Page 107 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. in the arbitration. Steve Olsen -- Steve Olsen was
the one example of the broken steering bracket that -that he presented to court -- to the Consumer Protection Agency, rather, that he had replaced the brackets on. And it was a warranty issue and dug --
he dug parts from us, on all these guys for free parts that we supplied gladly to try to help him out. He --
when Judge Peterson cornered him and said, "Listen, how many brackets did you actually replace?" "Three." He says, "All the" -- the judge says, "All three broke?" He says, "No, only one broke. The other two There He says,
were just preventative medicine."
One broke.
is no 33 percent failure rate on those things. Then we get Mr. Olsen's tractor in and the whole thing is modified. It's made into a tank. That's
what he went to the Consumer Protection guys with. Then we look at his sale -- bill of sale. sale says "as is." His bill of
Then we look at the items in here And he's
and the tractor had been sold before. claiming warranty on us?
And he's claiming all these
things that are -- he's doing all this stuff to the -So you're saying that once a tractor is sold, there is no more warranty on it after, you know -Warranty is with the original owner.
Page 108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. So you're not going to stand up for a tractor that -Not -- we're not a tractor -- that's the other thing. There was no warranty card sent in. thing your client never adhered to. That's another He wouldn't send
the warranty cards in, because what he was doing was selling them over and over and over, getting warranty stuff out of us. MR. SIMPSON: Now, when you were making a
reference to "he," who is he? THE WITNESS: Mitch Bogden.
You should take a look at the final letter of Mr. Olsen, what he wrote up and was the final letter introduced in court by us as to his relationship with your client. BY MR. BOYD: Do you know of a company called Sunset Distributing? Yes. What are they? A dealer of Tytan tractors? They
We never gave them a territory or anything else. bought a few tractors off of us. every heard of them.
That's the last we
Did they have any problems with any of their tractors? We've shipped them a few little parts but nothing major. And he just called the other day for some
parts we shipped to him.
Page 109 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And do you just ship parts because there's no problems with tractors or -He bought them. He bought the parts? Yeah. To, I presume, replace other parts? That's what we carry parts for. We sell parts.
Do you know a gentleman by the name of Dave Harris? Yeah. And -Dave Harris had hardly any problems, and Mitch wrote him a letter. You ought to have a copy of it. The
letter, he's misleading the guy in to -- these guys all have Mitch's number. (indicating). you. No, that's fine. Okay. Thanks. Did Mr. Harris have any problems with any of I'll ask the questions here. Here it is, right here I'll read it for
There's your letter.
the Tytan tractors? No. He had a problem with a -- well, I don't know if I don't remember any problems.
he had any problems.
He might have had a problem, but I don't -- he really hadn't bought hardly any parts from us. problem with a log splitter. He had a
Page 110 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. (Deposition Exhibit Number 29 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm going to hand you what's 29. this document? Yes. Is this the order -- did you sign this letter? Yes, I did. And this was submitted to Pamela McDonald of the US Consumer Protection Safety Commission? Yes. And this relates to Mr. Belanger? Yeah. And apparently Mr. Belanger filed some sort of complaint, I presume, with the US Consumer Protection Safety Commission? I don't know. I don't remember. I don't know. I Do you recognize
think it was one that was brought up by Mitch to them. Was Mitch -- did Mitch sell Mr. Belanger the tractor? Huh? It says it -- you know -Yeah, I don't know. This -- who this -- it says -- I
don't know who this -- my memory is too foggy to really make a comment on this. Too long ago. This
Belanger or whatever his name is, I thought was a
Page 111 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 customer of -- I thought he was from Montana, but I don't know. It says Sunset. Too long ago for me to Okay.
be accurate on my memory. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
What's it say? It says, "Mr. Belanger
purchased a tractor from Sunset Distributing in Sante Fe, New Mexico. His tractor was sold to him with a This type of warranty is used in
parts-only warranty.
cases where the purchaser are too far away from the dealership for the dealer to actively do labor work. In other words, they must find their own local mechanic. "Mr. Belanger called here several times for help and parts. We assisted him several times. We told None
him numerous times to get a qualified mechanic.
of his complaints ever involved what we consider a major or minor warranty issue. easy fixes. They were extremely
Mr. Belanger has continued to use the
tractor and so he obviously has wear issues that do not require service and adjustments." He -- as I said, so he obviously has continued to use the tractor and so he obviously has wear issues that do not require service -MR. SIMPSON: That do what? You reading "not" in there.
Page 112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. THE WITNESS: "Mr. Belanger has continued to
use the tractor, and so he obviously has wear issues that do require service and adjustments," yeah. BY MR. BOYD: And Mr. Belanger hired an attorney with regard to the matter of this tractor? Is that -- down below.
Mr. Belanger decided to hire an attorney. Yeah. And -I wrote -- yeah. I do recall this. I think I wrote
him back and wrote his attorney a letter back and told him that if he wanted to give his customer good advice, is to take it to a qualified mechanic rather than pay attorney's fees. Do you recall what the problems were with regards to Mr. Belanger's tractor? Not right now. It was -- I do think I remember it was It
a different -- it was not a 324 or 334, either. was a smaller tractor. Do you recall a gentleman by the name of Deiter Jaegers? Yes. That's the Montana guy I was thinking of. (Deposition Exhibit Number 30 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD:
Page 113 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. I remember this one now.
Did you receive this e-mail from Mr. Jaegers? Yes, I did. In this e-mail he apparently is complaining about the three-point hitch breaking in number 3. Okay. And generally stating that he'd made efforts with Yellowstone Tractor, apparently, to get things resolved but had to eventually come to you; is that correct? Pardon? Eventually he was writing to you; is that correct? Yeah. What happened on this deal, myself and two You see that?
mechanics drove over to Belgrade, Montana specifically to oversee fixing this guy's tractor. show. And he didn't
And then he didn't bring -- wouldn't bring the And so then the dealer also sent him
tractor in.
letters to bring the tractor in and he'd fix it himself. He didn't bring it, never brought it in.
End of story. So you went to Montana to take care of this guy's issue, but you couldn't make it up to Cashmere, Washington to take care of Mr. Conner; is that correct? I took -- this particular situation, I was already
Page 114 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. going over to -- on a sales trip to that dealer, so that's why I went over there. (Deposition Exhibit Number 31 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm going to hand you what will be marked as 31. This
is an e-mail from John Sparks to Mitch Bogden dated January 18, 2010. The second paragraph there, it
starts with "Two different people at Tytan told me they knew the bracket was bad and had to be redesigned because many had broken on other tractors." think that's a false statement? We had been asked by one of our customers that was in the steel business if we would get some made that were heavier duty. is bent. The problem is caused when the tie rod Do you
When somebody bends the tie rod, it has to If
be in perfect alignment with the power cylinder.
you bend a tie rod, then the throw of the cylinder is off, and then you'll fatigue a part to death. happens on all tractors with similar design. So Mr. Sparks' tractor, he had rewelded -- he had broke -What I'm asking is, did you -- do you think that his statement that he had talked to two people at Tytan and they said that the bracket was bad is a false It
Page 115 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. statement? Well, yes. We've had the parts tested by PSI and they
met -- they come out to three to four times the -What I'm asking you is, do you think that Mr. Sparks is lying when he said he talked to two people at Tytan and they told him that the bracket was bad? I think that's his interpretation of what they said. Thank you. (Deposition Exhibit Number 32 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: That's 32. Yes. What is this document? It looks like a page out of Mitch's website. Okay. Is there anything in this that you state is Do you recognize this document?
false, actually? It's all exactly what Judge Peterson ruled about your client. Is this -Deceptive. Is this -Deceptive. That means false. "Before you
Let's take a look at the first sentence.
consider the purchase of a Tytan tractor, you should
Page 116 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. come and compare a model 334 side by side with one of our high-quality TYM tractors." Is that false? Yeah, it is, because he left a couple of our tractors, those two he was too lazy to repair. Left them out in And so you
the rain to rust and then compared them.
go up there and it's an ugly, ugly looking situation. It's deceptive. "We also invite you to take a look at the transmission parts from the last four tractors we have in stock." Is there anything false about that? transmissions failed? I had people that visited the place and turned around and bought tractors from me, if that answers the question. No. I mean, is that false? Is that sentence false? Had
Did the transmissions fail? MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: All four? The question is, Mr. Bogden
got his parts on March 10th to replace three idler gears. He didn't do it. Instead, he shipped the And Tytan has fixed
tractors off to somebody else. everyone of his.
We have had to fix every tractor Every one we have
that he didn't do any service on. had to do that on.
He did no service work.
Page 117 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that, Don? BY MR. BOYD: Q. A. A. BY MR. BOYD: Q. We have -- next sentence. "We have several Tytan issues? yeah. Q. A. BY MR. BOYD: I'd like to see the documents for all that. Yeah. I'll give you the name of the customers. You
can call them.
And while you're at it, why don't you
look at the 80 video deals on each of them, all of our customers giving their responses. MR. SIMPSON: Don, just for clarification.
Documents on fixing Tytan -MR. BOYD: Apparently the tractors that --
For the problems that were raised here, I guess
the transmission problems. MR. SIMPSON: The one with the bearing
The wrong bearing? MR. BOYD: The wrong bearing.
buyers who would be happy to answer your questions regarding their experience." Yeah. Is that false? Isn't that
Not one of them showed up in court. He told them --
something?
Is that false? That's false. MR. SIMPSON: What about the sentence before
Page 118 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. "All four had the same problem and Tytan International has yet to issue a recall or service bulletin as of 1-9-10." Had Tytan issued a recall -On what do -- service bulletin on what? Apparently, the transmission issue. Why should we order a service bulletin when all the dealers got the parts to replace them and it should have been repaired? them had a problem. a problem. But -MR. SIMPSON: about that? MR. BOYD: I'm not asking, Jeff. That's exactly what he found. What did the arbitrator find The other dealers, not one of Not one of the other dealers had
Your guy wouldn't repair it.
THE WITNESS: BY MR. BOYD:
Were there potential customers that would not have been able to go through a dealer that you would have been able to notify that there was this problem with the transmission? There is no problem with the transmission. quite understand, do you? part put in. And that's not a problem with the transmission? You don't
16 tractors had the wrong
Page 119 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. That is not a problem with the transmission design or anything else. is be replaced. It's a wrong part. All they had to do
There's no problem with the design of
that transmission. I'm not asking about a design problem. I'm asking
is -- was that a problem with the operation of the tractor while it was operating -Shouldn't have been. Not if you had -- if a dealer Shouldn't
had the parts to replace ahead of time. have been a problem in the world.
And when the dealer Shouldn't have
had been notified and sent the parts? been.
Your client writes in one of his letters, he supposed there really was a problem there. But he
went ahead and shipped it, even though it was a life-threatening situation, according to what he claimed. And that was with the steering bracket? Yeah. Okay. I think we're talking about transmission issues
right now. Yeah. 16 -- who are we going to issue a notice to How
when the dealers already got the problem fixed? do we know he didn't fix the three that he got -three or four that he got?
Page 120 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And how were you -- how do you know that you solved all of the problems? Do you think Ford does that if they catch the something before it leaves, gets to the dealers or after it gets to the dealer before any of them been shipped? You think they issued a recall?
Well, wasn't this problem raised first by Mitch and Mr. Conner because of that -We didn't know what the problem was. We sat there for
four months while he -- you read some more of your letters and you're going to see he wouldn't work. That's the prolem. it. He wasn't even going to look at
That's why he's not a dealer of ours.
Weren't you the one who also promised Mitch and Mr. Conner that you would go up there and take a look at this after he had -We tried to do it during that one time. But when the
weather got better, we were going aide him because he couldn't get there. But he didn't have the trailer to
do it with or something like that, and so we were going to try to help him. But after the weather got
good, there's no reason that he couldn't go get it. Isn't this true that Mr. Conner and Mr. Bogden brought this issue to your attention at four months after the problem was brought to your attention, then you
Page 121 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. investigated the problem? No, that's not true. We never had a conversation with He took care
Mr. Conner four months after the deal.
of Mr. Conner with trades and swaps and everything else back in January or something. And after Mr. Bogden through Mr. Conner's problems with the tractor, it became -- you became aware and Tytan became aware that it had at least 16 tractors that had this problem; is that correct? We found in early March that we had what the problem was. That was the first one that we had seen.
(Deposition Exhibit Number 33 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm going to hand you what's going to be marked as 33. You recognize this document? Yeah. Is there anything untrue in this document? Yeah. What? Well, I don't know about untrue. This guy over in I
Cashmere said that we had promised to be there.
don't ever promise to be anywhere because we had too many variables. there. I will do my best to try to get over
And that's where -- what I'm saying in this
Page 122 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. deal in the first item there. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: Go back to the first page. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is
untrue here on the -- right underneath the picture. It says, "We have had multiple failures of this part on Tytan tractors." BY MR. BOYD: What -He had one. What is this part? Steering bracket. Okay. So Mr. Olsen didn't have a right front -- or a Well, he had one. That's untrue.
front steering bracket problem? We don't know what the situation is. part back from Mr. Bogden. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: BY MR. BOYD: Well -- and so Mr. Cox didn't have a front steering bracket problem? I don't know if he did or didn't. Sparks didn't have a front steering bracket problem? He may have. I -- something -- I don't know if I He's not talking about Olsen. Yeah. We never got one
shipped him a tie rod or a steering bracket, but it's caused by them bending the tie rod. And we have
Page 123 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. pictures of Mr. Sparks' tractor with welded tie rods, by the way. But there were -- arguably, Mitch had three customers who had front steering bracket problems? No. He testified in front of Judge Peterson he only
had one, and that was a customer -- tractor that had been sold as is and been sold several times, had no warranty. But as you've stated in your e-mails that it doesn't matter what a customer may or may not have, you can still get sued; isn't that not correct? I don't know what you're referring to. You dispute making that statement, that we are in a society now where anything goes with consumers? Where are you at? Second page, middle of the middle paragraph. Oh, okay. I don't see anything about being sued in
that middle paragraph. Doesn't that insinuate that we're in a society -Where are you seeing this? THE WITNESS: MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD: 34 -No, no. It's just -- all I'm saying here is we have Do you see it? We are in a society...
Page 124 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yeah. A. Q. Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. check-off sheets that show if things are working and not working and how it's handed over to the customer and what's -- what shortages there could be or not could be, and you got to have your paperwork done. What does the statement "We are now in a society where anything goes with consumers" mean? Pardon? What does that sentence mean, we are now in a society where anything goes with consumers? That means they're not claiming a part from you that wasn't shipped with it or they might claim that -different things and you have to make sure that you have your paperwork done. for that. Nothing to do with the lawsuits? It could. Could be a lawsuit. We have check-off sheets
(Deposition Exhibit Number 34 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm going to give you 34. document? I think so. I've seen something like it. Do you recognize this
Give you a minute to review it. Anything wrong with -- untrue in this document? It says faulty reverse idler gear. There was
Page 125 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. nothing faulty. It was a wrong part put in there.
Anything else wrong or false in this statement or this document? Yeah. Mr. Hoagland did come and testified, and that's
exactly what Judge Peterson ruled on. Is there anything false in this? Yeah. About Mr. Hoagland being foolish.
Was that -That's pretty dang -That's an opinion, isn't it? It's not --
Yeah, but this is a public document, that this guy's trying to smear these people, smear a witness. And Mr. Hoagland never had -- Tytan never sent Mr. Hoagland parts to repair -There's another --- tractors? There's more here. Wait a second. It says, Mr. --
So you're saying Tytan -- Tytan never
sent repair parts -- idler gear parts to Mr. Hoagland's? No, we sent them to Hoagland. Okay. He fixed them immediately. Page 2, it says, "In fact,
Mr. Leonard appears to have acted as a witness in Mr. Nelson's lawsuit with Alamo." Well, Mr. Nelson
Page 126 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. Q. A. never had a lawsuit with Alamo. with him. Leonard's." He's best friends
It says "Mr. Nelson is an old buddy of Mark Never knew him at Tytan. He came at I never knew him
Alamo's time when they owned Rhino. before. Here's another untruth. on these. You're --
Let's just keeping going
When you say "old buddy," where does it say? "Mr. Nelson is an old buddy of Mark Leonard's at Tytan." MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD: And so that was as of 2010. know Mr. Nelson? MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD: So you didn't know Mr. Nelson at this time at all? Never met him? I didn't know him until I started Tytan, but he -see, he's using the time zone right here in the next line. "In fact, Mr. Leonard appears to have acted as Well, That's This would be 2008, Don. When did you first get to Second line, Don.
a witness in Mr. Nelson's lawsuit with Alamo." I never even knew him when he was with Alamo. all a bunch of untruths. deceptive.
This is all part of the word
Page 127 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. And another one here. one page to the other. That sentence goes from
"Within a year of so Alamo Mark's buddy Tim, got As I
Group dumped the Rhino company.
a big discount on the Rhino parts inventory.
understand the parts business for Rhino tractors should be brisk. return a favor." Anybody that knows that guy, he was an engineer at Eastman Kodak with 162 engineers underneath him. He is anything but what's been described here. is a declaration -MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: No. HUH? No doubt this -"No doubt this posting Yeah. He's just Below Now it is time for Mr. Nelson to
will be an embarrassment for him."
trying to discredit the witnesses and make them get scared. That's what this was all about.
And Alamo Group did not sell Rhino within a year. BY MR. BOYD: How long was it? Three and a half years. or dump it. They did not sell it either
They just dissolved their contracts
because they had a conflict with John Deere. So they -John Deere took over those factories. Alamo, bluffed them out of it. They outfoxed
Page 128 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 3, 4. MR. SIMPSON: May we then just address this one. MR. BOYD: I think Page 3 is different. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. So John Deere then started manufacturing Rhino tractors? Yes. They still do.
Rhino tractors? Same tractor under John Deere's name, obviously. Okay. Hard to believe, huh? So the Rhino company, though, was gone within three years after purchase rather than one year? That's right. (Deposition Exhibit Number 35 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: This is 35. (A short recess was taken.) BY MR. BOYD: Do you recognize this document? Yeah. This is one of Mitch's big deals on his
internet. And is there anything untrue in this document? MR. SIMPSON: Don, we've already reviewed
Page 129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. untrue. Page 3? MR. BOYD: Yeah. I just want to make sure
we have the complete things so that... THE WITNESS: Yeah. There's something
Here he is putting this in here saying he has He testified
four failures on the steering bracket. that he had one. BY MR. BOYD: Okay. Anything else?
Yeah, another one here.
"In accordance with the US
Consumer Protection Act, TractorCo has issued a report of potential Class A hazard." Well, the consumer
protection people ran their own engineers on the issue and declared the products were -- more than met any kind of quality needed to be in those things. Do you have their report? No, I just got it verbal over the phone. From whom? Tanya. Who's Tanya? She's the lead gal that Mr. Bogden had sent the stuff to. MR. SIMPSON: in your exhibits, Don. MR. BOYD: Okay. You've got a letter to Tanya
Page 130 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. BY MR. BOYD: So you're saying that Mr. Bogden didn't have the right to issue a report with regard to these tractors listed here? No, he didn't have a right to them. Didn't have a right to notify his customers with regard to issues that he thought potentially were safety -It just shows that he doesn't know anything about the tractors. If he knew about the guys breaking their
tie rod -- it never dawned on him that guys were -that were bending their tie rods were shorting the stroke of the cylinder and then fatiguing their tie rod. That's the problem. Guys driving over stumps.
Anything else that you think is false in this document? Yeah. hazard. And the other thing is it's not a Class A The judge ruled on that. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: part and -MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: No, no. Read it. Next sentence. Yeah. Tytan issued an upgrade
"Tytan has manufactured an
upgraded replacement part and issued it to the consumers upon request."
Page 131 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. Wrong. BY MR. BOYD: Did it obtain a upgrade part? We had a customer -- and he's got a declaration in there -- that wanted to have a -- he wanted to make his tie rod stronger and he wanted to make his brackets stronger. And he did just that. And we told Tytan never manufactured anything.
him that we would go ahead and order them right out of the factory so that they met all the factory measurements and stuff. And did Tytan offer that to other customers, too, upon request? We did until we did the tests on the original equipment at PSI and found out that they were more than adequate. (Deposition Exhibit Number 36 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: I'm handing you what's going to be marked as 36. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: this thing. How is this different, Don? I haven't finished answering
He submitted a complete table here of
Tytan failure issues here and the judge totally ruled against him on all of that. And these items are just And keep in
totally not failure items, a lot of them.
Page 132 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. mind, when you issue a deal of all these failures, don't you think when it's in the contract, that he should support it with proving it with the actual parts? We never have seen one part. MR. SIMPSON: Not one.
It's continuing to be
published knowing it's untrue. THE WITNESS: MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: Yeah. Say it. That was -- this stuff has
been continually put on the internet various ways. BY MR. BOYD: So you're saying this has been out there on the internet after the arbitration ruling? Yeah. It's been spread around to people in talk
forums and all sorts of things. MR. SIMPSON: Don, if you take a look, for
example, at your Number 33, that was printed on the 24th of February, 2013 -- oh, 2010. (Deposition Exhibit Number 37 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: 37. Yes. What is this document? It looks like it's a deal to Investor's Hub where he's Do you recognize that document?
Page 133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 then. MR. SIMPSON: You got two Tytans. Make Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. trying to say that there's a breach of commercial security. Is that true? On Exhibit 37 Susan Bond, who Mitch Bogden has admitted is his alias, says, "I'm seriously considering this stock as an investment, Tytan Holdings, TYTN." Is that true? That's true. I don't know the answer to breach of All it was is the bank was going
commercial security.
downhill and they wanted to call their loans in to get as much cash raised as they could. renew anybody. So they didn't
So they tried to foreclose on us.
And that lawsuit had been filed as of that time? Well, no. This is untrue as well. The only thing
that was -- that was foreclosed on was Mark Leonard, not Tytan. Tytan still has no foreclosure on it. It
has not been foreclosed on. Why had the lawsuit been started? Lawsuit was started the day before Cowlitz Bank went down to foreclose. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: Against whom? Against Tytan International
Page 134 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. certain you're talking about the right one. BY MR. BOYD: Tytan Holdings, what other substantial assets does it own other than Tytan International? I told you earlier I'll get you all the paper documentation. You'll have it more accurate than I
can give it to you. Off the top of your head, how much does Tytan International comprise of Tytan Holdings? A high percentage. The date here on the top, it says, apparently, Friday, September 10, 2010. Yeah. As far as you know, that that was the date this was posted? Probably. Do you know of any other prior postings by Susan Bond, double-oh 7 with regard to Tytan? Only about a thousand of them. Prior to this date? Prior to that date? that date. Do you know what the stock value of Tytan was as of that date? MR. SIMPSON: Which one? I'm not sure exactly prior to Do you see that?
Page 135 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. BY MR. BOYD: My own -- my understanding -- is there a difference? Is Tytan International publically traded? Tytan Holdings is publically traded. And Tytan International is solely owned by Tytan Holdings? Yes. So the Tytan International stock value, do you know what that value was as of that date? I don't have that kind of memory. it. MR. BOYD: We'll take a break for just a few You can research
minutes, and then try to get it wrapped up. (A short recess was taken.) (Deposition Exhibit Number 38 marked for identification.) BY MR. BOYD: The next is 38. Yes. Do you know who prepared this document? Yeah, I think I did. Who's Sean? A stock guy that we had. Where did this come from? I Me and Sean did. Do you recognize this document?
don't see a court document on it. case or something?
Was this out of the
Page 136 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. it, Don. THE WITNESS: He didn't supply it and it A. Q. I think this is something that Mr. Simpson has provided us in discovery. I don't think so. MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: I don't think so.
It was part of -- yeah. He didn't supply this. It's the first time I've seen
THE WITNESS: MR. SIMPSON:
wasn't in the court case. BY MR. BOYD: So you and Sean prepared this. document show? Huh? What does -- what's this graph here? The spiky graph, What does this
is that -- is that the actual stock price of Tytan International? The one --
It's just jumping from the peaks to the peaks. MR. SIMPSON: THE WITNESS: BY MR. BOYD: Tytan International? Tytan Holdings. Holdings. Okay. And as far as you know, this is a What company is it? Tytan.
correct reflection of the stock price of Tytan
Page 137 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Holdings during this period of time shown down on the graph, from 2009 through apparently October -mid-October -- November 22, 2010, apparently is the last date? Well, that's what it is, a print off off the internet. Okay. As far as you know, that's a true and correct
stock prices on that graph? Yeah. I don't know, you know, how accurate -- I mean,
you can't get real accurate with it, but you can get somewhat accurate. But within the range that it shows here on the right-hand side, from $.002 to $.009? you can tell, relatively accurate? Uh-huh. Thank you. Yes, I do. Who is Mr. Garten? He was a fellow that bought a 50-horsepower tractor from us initially, and very happy with it. Put it on Do you know a guy named Gabriel Garten? It's, as far as
the internet, put it all over the stock places, and then he decided he wanted to -- after about a year or so, he wanted a 85 horse. Okay. Uh-huh. Is he a member of your board? And that's what he's got now?
Page 138 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. No. Is he a stockholder of Tytan? I don't know. Was he ever a member of the board? We had him as a consultant, you know, because he was out using the tractor and had some good input. So you don't know whether he's a stockholder or not? Don't have any idea. MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD: Do you ever talk to Mr. Garten about buying stock in the company of Tytan Holdings? I don't discuss stock with people. product. Do you know if Mr. Garten has posted any things about Tytan Holdings on the web, on the internet? I don't look on the internet. MR. BOYD: have anything more. I think at this point I don't There may be some questions that I only talk Of Tytan Holdings?
Of Tytan Holdings, Inc., yeah.
come up with regard to the documents that we talked about. MR. SIMPSON: Thanks.
Would you mark that? (Deposition Exhibit Number 39 marked for
Page 139 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. BY MR. SIMPSON: Mark, I've got just a few clarifications for you. What's been marked as Number 6, that was submitted for the arbitration proceeding, wasn't it? Yes. As well as all of these exhibits that are marked with TCO-00 and then a number? arbitration proceeding? Yes. You, at one point in trying to respond to Don -Mr. Boyd, indicated -- you indicated that OTC may be a government agency? Well, it's regulated at least by the government. It's real name Pink OTC, Inc.? Pink sheets? No. It's OTC pink sheets. the time. Bear with me. I'm trying to find Number 5. This was And That's how you get it most of Those were all in the identification.) EXAMINATION
marked as Number 5, was a revised annual report. on Page 15 to that, there's something called an extraordinary item? Yes.
Page 140 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. Q. A. What is that? That's the arbitration judgment that Judge Peterson awarded from TractorCo, Mitch Bogden. So that's just -- would that be one of the reasons you would have revised this, is to add the arbitration award on this? Yes. Let me show you Number 28. At the top it's a letter
from you to Mr. Bogden, and then on the bottom -- or the next page, it has Mr. Bogden's response to you; is that correct? Yes. Would you please read the first sentence of that. "I have hit -- set this issue on the back burner as I have been too busy to deal with it and the snow on the passes has been unrelenting. I have asked you before, I would
however, and still need a definitive answer. like to confirm that when I bring the two 334
tractors, I can return them with two replacements." Thank you. In that e-mail, do you indicate that it
was Mitch's at least intent, that he was going to go over and deliver the tractors to -- to your company over in western Washington? It says that he was going to bring them back to us. Right. So he was going to be traveling over the pass?
Page 141 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And why couldn't he travel over the pass? Because the snow was unrelenting. Next we're going to turn to Exhibit Number 34. actually going to go to Number 29. No. I'm
I'm handing you what's been marked as Number 37. This is the Susan Bond posting on the -September 10th, 2010? On -- what's the website that's on? It's on Investor's Hub. What stock is it referring to? TYTN, which is Tytan Holdings. And the second line, the paragraph -- well, let's go to the first line. whole thing. "Tytan foreclosure. I'm seriously considering this This is from Susan Bond, "Seems like there's a lot I do, however, like to Would you read -- just read the
stock as an investment." double-oh 7, Mitch Bogden.
of confidence in this company. do my homework. courts.
I did a search on Tytan in the
I was surprised to drag up this listing."
Would you read that? "Court. Cowlitz Superior Court, Case Number Foreclosure, breach of commercial
10-2-01361-1. security.
It appears to be the main commercial loan
Page 142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. indicated in the second quarter report for around 700,000. Does anyone know more about this? Am I
mistaken here?" Was that a lawsuit against Tytan Holdings? No, it was not. What's the subject matter of this post? It's -- was a lawsuit against the guarantor -No, no. Oh, it's the -What company is he dealing with? This is Investor's Hub. But what company is she talking about? TYTN. Which is? Which is Tytan Holdings. Was Tytan Holdings being sued? No. By anyone? No. So is that statement, when it was published, true? No. Thank you. MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: That's it.
Got one last question.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION
Page 143 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. BY MR. BOYD: Going back to the Exhibit 37. Did Tytan Holdings,
Inc., make references in its OTC filings about the Cowlitz Bank loan? It made reference to the loan, yes. And that was in Tytan Holdings, Inc., reportings that were filed with the OTC? Yes. MR. BOYD: Thank you. That's all I've got.
MR. SIMPSON:
Thank you.
(Deposition concluded at 1:30 p.m.) (Signature reserved.)
Page 144 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I have read the original or a copy of the above-described transcript and my answers contained therein are correct with the above-noted changes. SIGNATURE OF DEPONENT DATE OF SIGNATURE Page Line Suggested Changes Deposition of MARK LEONARD February 28, 2013 In re: Bogden, Leonard vs. Bogden Case No. 11-00883FLK7 ADV NO. 11-80075-FLK CERTIFICATE OF SIGNATURE
Page 145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERT/LIC NO. Notary Public in and for the State of Washington, residing at Yakima STATE OF WASHINGTON) ) ss. COUNTY OF YAKIMA ) THIS IS TO CERTIFY that I, JORI MOORE, Certified Court Reporter in and for the State of Washington residing at Yakima, reported the within and foregoing deposition; said deposition being taken before me as a Notary Public on the date herein set forth; that the deponent was first by me duly sworn; that said examination was taken by me in shorthand and thereafter under my supervision transcribed, and that same is a full, true and correct record of the testimony of said deponent, including all questions, answers and objections, if any, of counsel. Further certify that I am not a relative or employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I financially interested in the outcome of the cause. IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my official seal this 2013. day of , C E R T I F I C A T E

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Mark Leonard - Deposition of 28FEB2013

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Page 1 UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON

Case No. 11-00883-FLK7 ADV NO. 11-80075-FLK

DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF MARK LEONARD

February 28, 2013 Yakima, Washington

I'm the attorney for Mitch Bogden.

What's your current occupation?

What's your position with that company?

this, this and this. to our orders. Okay.

Who did you buy your tractors from?

I mean, what difference does it make?

companies so I can't ask that question.

It's a trade secret. member names?

It's my business. MR. SIMPSON: Don't banter back and forth.

About 2003. Okay.

And what company was that?

question deals with just wholesale customers.

If we had a person that's

Page 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. My question is: Who had final authority if one of

Repeat the question again. from it.

I want to make sure I'm answering it.

she's a secretary. reversed.

business? I really don't know much about them. I don't -I

know that they had pretty much -- didn't have any

for the sake of this, not holding anybody to a

Page 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. specific date. Was there any business being conducted

MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD:

Was it a sole proprietorship?

Was -- you know, was

Was there any sole proprietorship or

time slot of how it -- when it was, though.

Were there any other subsidiaries that Tytan

Let's take a break.

against me personally as a guarantor on a loan.

"Hey, you guys just won this case. about it.

You probably don't know the details of it."

want all my assets back. released the judgment.

Page 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. I haven't. I'm not an expert on everything. I have

statement of income and retained earnings.

It's up above that.

The top row it says

Page 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Thank you. MR. BOYD: This will be 2.

Made copies of this one. MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD:

Yeah, including the cover page. At the very top it says

That's it, yeah.

first full paragraph there, it starts, "Tytan

Page 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. Let's see. Unfortunately I'm going to have to ask you

I apologize for those

I thought they were. 13, Don?

MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD: BY MR. BOYD:

I'll ask Mr. Leonard.

MR. SIMPSON: MR. BOYD:

Yeah, the seventh page in. The one that's 314,000?

Yeah, Note B. the bottom. Okay. Note B.

43 percent gain year over year." You see that statement?

(Deposition Exhibit Number 7 marked for identification.)

was brought into the shell." Uh-huh.

italicized writing next to it starting with, "Tytan

THE WITNESS: BY MR. BOYD:

Page 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. our accountant. It could have been through a PR guy.

Is this a Marketwire? Yes. It appears the date here is January 9, 2012.

would be the same as Tytan Holdings.

Well, but also income, yeah,

MR. SIMPSON: BY MR. BOYD: Okay.

You at some point -- or Tytan International at