ID fan stall problem.

One ID fan exceed the accumulate time operation in stall zone of a coal power plant. The recommendation of the fan vendor is to replace the fan blades. If problem with the spare parts time supply is present I appreciate your comments to: 1. Some particular recommendations to inspect the blades to found fatigue initiation to permit continue in operation? 2. Similar experience and how you control and monitoring the blade failure risk until the blade supply arrive to the power plant? Thank for any recommendation, experience and tips. Regards. 1 day ago

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LaurieUnfollow Follow Laurie Laurie Thompson Hi. We have large axial flow ID's that used to go into stall fairly easily in the earlier days of the Stations life. We had re-designed blades installed, and that largely removed the problem. However, as part of the solution, we installed ID Fan suction pressure limit alarms at -6 KPa, which is before stall occurs. Also, we installed ID Fan cutback control which, if the fan approaches stall, winds back the unit required output ( RO ) signal to take the Unit out of the stall danger zone. Works very well. As far as blade inspection is concerned, it would depend on the design of the fan, but I would be

doing mag particle inspection of the blade roots, looking for crack initiation, and around any blade stiffening lacing / shrouds that are fitted. Thanks. 17 hours ago

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SergiosUnfollow Follow Sergios Sergios Goudanis We did not take any chances with operation beyond the manufacturer recomendation. It is a great risk for the plant and the ID fan should close until new blades arrive. More over, it is recommended to install a monitoring system for the fan operation, in order to avoid stall region and alert the operator that fan is too close to the stall line: by continuous measuring the fan DeltaP and flow
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alokUnfollow Follow alok alok bhattacharya @ Alfredo, Is your fan blades physically worn out? Most importantly you must check vibration level of fan, if it is within permissible limit, you may continue with fan till new set arrives. Fan's bearing & lubrication system, damper movement needs to be look at. Stalling originates due to fan blades instability creating vibration. At time boiler load variation brings down vibration but that is temporary arrangement. Blade balancing is other alternative but for that you need a person who knows how to do it. Meanwhile keep in touch with vendor.

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HalUnfollow Follow Hal Hal Stephens First have you found evidence of blade cracking so far? If so is the an obvious stress area? Point is the wheel should be inspected based on suspected failure mechanisms. Areas of concern are shaft transition points, wheel attachment points, blade ends, and attachment points. Yes inspection of any or all these points is warranted after excessive operation over design limits. It does not automatically mean wholesale parts replacement is needed. Inspection techniques include dye penetrant (used mostly on cleaned blades) and ultrasonic Shear Wave NDE exams.(shaft mostly) some parts may need to be X-rayed but not likely. Point is there are ways to qualify rotor condition and operable level for remaining life. Also based on extent of damage most times many failures can be repaired. Also by all means install a vibration monitoring system on the fans. Any large rotating equipment critical to operation should be continually monitored. A set inspection routine should also be maintained. Cheers!.
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HectorUnfollow Follow Hector Hector Riquelme It is very strange any recommendation to change a fan by operating time. A fan is changed just before obvious signs of damage or wear. In one outage all fan should be reviewed in their welds, abrasive wear on their blades (which would indicate another problem).

The first sign of a failure fan would manifest in vibrations increased. You need to carry a monthly measurement of motor and fan vibrations ID. Another element to inspect in each outage plant, is the state of the damper blinds. Es muy extrao que se recomiende cambiar por tiempo de operacin un ventilador. Un ventilador se cambia solo ante signos evidentes de dao o desgaste. En una parada de planta se debe revisar un ventilador en sus soldaduras, desgaste por abrasin en sus aspas o alabes (que indicara otro problema). La primera seal de falla de un ventilador se manifestaria en un aumento de sus vibraciones. Es necesario llevar una medicin mensual de vibraciones de motor y ventilador IDF. Otro elemento a inspeccionar en cada parado de planta, es el estado de las persianas del damper. Regards,
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SergiosUnfollow Follow Sergios Sergios Goudanis Please check also the cause of stalling. If this occurs unexpectedly due to changes in the fuel, or blockage of the flue gas path, then maybe a good idea is to operate in 80% of max. load in order to surely avoid the stall region of the fan. Propagation of cracks due to fatigue is not linear at all: blades can be separated from the hub and damage the flue gas ducts sudenly and fan vibrations can also damage fan housing and base. So if the repair is to be delayed and the operation necessary, at least make sure that stall will not happen again up to the blade replacement.
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ChittatoshUnfollow Follow Chittatosh Chittatosh Bhattacharya Stalling is a phenomena caused by system resistance created during flow into the fan impeller or that caused by flow through impleller. The statement suggests that there may be a failure of blades of impeller. If the fan RPM is low below 500 the problem may be limited by fan loading minimization but for high RPM fans safe limit of vibration will determine the running load as already pointed out.
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BruceUnfollow Follow Bruce Bruce Hartsock Can you first clarify your indications of the "stall"? Are you saying the fan stalled (wouldn't start or siezed while running) and the motor breaker tripped on OC? Fan degredation would result in degraded motor performance but also you may be experiencing motor and/or power problems (e.g., single-phasing). Meggar the lines to validate cable integrity. If the fan can still be operated, get a set of run currents and compare phase difference
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ByronUnfollow Follow Byron Byron Wooldridge Is the fan in question an axial flow fan? I am assuming it is due to your statement that it ran in the stall zone and the manufacturer is suggesting you change the blades. I would advise you remove the blades, clean them, and dye penetrant or magnaflux them. Also clean and inspect with dye penetrant or magnaflux the fan rotor, especially the blade seats. Make very meticulously dimensional checks of the blade fits to check for excessive wear. If you do not find fatigue cracks on the blades or rotor, and do not find excessive wear in the blade fits, you should be good to continue operation with the existing hardware.
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ChittatoshUnfollow Follow Chittatosh Chittatosh Bhattacharya No fan with an unmatched blade profile in the direction of flow is safe to operate. The stalling is a signal of criticality which once I faced with a huge catastroph with a 1450 RPM overhung PA Fan. Shift the load at maximum permissible limit to the other running ID fan. Cracks in a rotary equipments are dagerous and propagate very rapidly to put the equipment in unsafe vibration zone. For axial flow fan unmatched blade pitch control calibration may create surge loading and initiate stalling effects too.
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Ian Myers I know this might sound like a stupid question, but have you inspected the blades and determined whether you should replace the tiles and then rebalance the fan? If so, the Differential pressure across the ID Damper would identify the performance issue. Over time the position would change for the same displacement. Also, consider performance controller for this function only. A stern control would sacrifice efficiency for safety, there are systems out there that actually meet both requirements, for example: GE, Woodward, CCC, SKF, ect. All I'm saying is that you should do your homework before you replace a fan or motor or both and then lose capital on the investment over time.
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J. DarrenUnfollow Follow J. Darren J. Darren Cash Would you consider coating the blades before installation. It could help you save significant money and downtime ?
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Laurie Thompson Hi. We have large axial flow ID's that used to go into stall fairly easily in the earlier days of the Stations life. We had re-designed blades installed, and that largely removed the problem. However, as part of the solution, we installed ID Fan suction pressure limit alarms at -6 KPa, which is before stall occurs. Also, we installed ID Fan cutback control which, if the fan approaches stall, winds back the unit required output ( RO ) signal to take the Unit out of the stall danger zone. Works very well. As far as blade inspection is concerned, it would depend on the design of the fan, but I would be doing mag particle inspection of the blade roots, looking for crack initiation, and around any blade stiffening lacing / shrouds that are fitted. Thanks.
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SyedUnfollow Follow Syed Syed Ahmed Nadeem Here are some suggestions , NDT of Fan blades as per MPD ( Maintenance Planning document of manufacturer. Critical inspection areas include dove tail roots , leading and training edges MPI or FPI depending on fan blade material . The second level III assessments can be replicas for microstructure examination .
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SyedUnfollow Follow Syed Syed Ahmed Nadeem Here are some suggestions , NDT of Fan blades as per MPD ( Maintenance Planning document of manufacturer. Critical inspection areas include dove tail

roots , leading and training edges MPI or FPI depending on fan blade material . The second level III assessments can be replicas for microstructure examination .
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JayUnfollow Follow Jay Jay Pomeroy We have experienced false stall indications caused by errors in flow measurement. What type of flow instrument is measuring fan flow? We used DP transmitters measuring the DP across the elbow of the ductwork on the inlet to the fan. Initially pizolli rings were use on each side of the elbow. Each ring had 4 taps into the duct work to sense pressure. The thought was that this would equalize the pressure in the ring and give a more accurate reading of pressure. The rings blocked up frequently giving inaccurate flow reading and they were abandoned. Individual taps were used and transmitters were added. The lowest DP was selected to calculate flow. Blockage was still a problem but not as bad as with the rings.
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hannesUnfollow Follow hannes hannes hedquist I recently experienced ID fan total failure at plant in Turkey. Within seconds at first a screeching sound was heard , then the whole fan-runner (blading exploded send big, mortally fatal pieces of metal in all radial dirtecyoins all exiting tha fan casing and external insulation. Luckily noone was hurt. Unofficial explanaition also agreed by myself after visially inspecting the surfaces of

craacking/breakage was either of, or a combination of: - Design fault - Metal fatigue - Poor welding and QC. - Poor choice of materials. Only way I can see to have avoided this was by regular preventitive maintenance, i.e. dismantle, vislual check measuring of clearances and NDT, i.e DPT and or MPT. Best Regards. Hannes Hedquist
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sinnaduraiUnfollow Follow sinnadurai sinnadurai sripadmanaban Do you have facilities to check balancing after replacing blades?.
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hannesUnfollow Follow hannes hannes hedquist Normally permanent vibration measuring equipment is installed including constant measuring/logging with both H (Alarm) and HH (trip) levels in DCS at both driven and non-driven end of ID fan.

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alokUnfollow Follow alok alok bhattacharya @ Hannes, If your I/D fan is old means it served well before accident, it indicates more on metal fatigue and poor workmanship. Moreover if it is a newly installed fan, it indicates design faults & poor fabrication. How will you do regular checkup when fan is supposed to run round the clock. However vibration is one factor which indicates fan's health and one must take round in shifts to check it. I have observed, usually staff hesitate or avoid to go to stack area to keep away from dirt and consider everything will be O.K. Kindly revert when you get the cause of accident. Thanks.
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LaurieUnfollow Follow Laurie Laurie Thompson Can we go back to basics for a few minutes ? Why was the fan allowed to operate in stall for any length of time to start with? An investigation into the whole flue gas path may well be warranted, to see where the flow restrictions are. Such things as : * high unmetered air getting into the furnace / gas pass * Air heater basket blockages due to ineffective sootblowing, or tired baskets * Insufficient Fabric Filter cells in service ( if fitted to Plant ) * High flue gas O2 settings * Continual running at peak overload in hot weather

* Gas pass damper limits set incorrectly, where open indication is not true. * Both ID Fans not sharing load evenly, due to incorrect equalisation bias settings * Incorrect setting of inlet vane guide ring. ie. all inlet vanes not set to same position * Insufficient computer monitoring / alarming of ID Fan suction pressure, compared to known Fan stall suction pressure ( establish a safe margin of operation ) Just a few things that may well be worth investigating, to help reduce the likelihood of further ID Fan stall problems. Thanks.
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