James Tenney

Phone conversation:
Hello?
Is this JIM TENNEY?
Yes.
This is WALTER ZIMMERMANN.
Hi!
Do you think I can ask you some questions about
you music?
Sure
The thin! is" I#m $ust ta%in!" ya" an& 'e
shou(& ta(k a (itt(e bit (ou&e than usua(. Do
you un&estan& me?
Yes.
)kay. *nti( +,-. you 'ee concene& 'ith
com%ute music. Then you s'itche& to
instumenta( music. /o' &o you inte!ate you
e0%eiences 'ith com%ute music into the ne'
%ieces?
Let me first correct a date there. I was working
with computer music from !" to !"!. #hen I
went $%&' to writing instrumental music( since I
had written instrumental music )efore !". %nd
I found that the kinds of compositional
procedures that I had learned and developed
using the computer could )e applied in
instrumental music( too..... formal ideas( and
wa*s of achieving certain kinds of te+tures( and
so forth.
Like in 1RY2TAL 1AN)N. What I kno' is" they ae
(ike 3ey so%histicate& constuctions o4 canonic
&ummin!. I see that as a kin& o4 4eti(i5ation
4om the com%ute e0%eiences.
,ertili-ation?
Ya" 4om the com%ute e0%eiences.
&ertainl*( the* have influenced m* instrumental
writing.
Di& you a%%(y e0%eiences 'ith e0%an&e& time an&
hamonic sca(es" on ne' techniques o4
instumentation? Do you un&estan& the
question?
.ell( since I/ve )een working with instrumental
music again( I don/t know that I/ve done
an*thing ver* e+perimental with instrumentation(
as such. I/ve )een using mostl* standard
instruments( in prett* standard wa*s. $ut m*
concern these last two or three *ears with the
harmonic series as a )asis for pitch
organi-ation pro)a)l* derives from m* work in
acoustics( as well as a ver* long0standing
involvement with tim)re as a formative parameter
in music. %side from that( I think it is
mostl* the formal aspects of these instrumental
pieces that have )een influenced )* the computer
work.
An& some %ieces ae 'itten in sim%(est %ossib(e
stuctues an& notation. I ta(ke& to one o4 you
4ome stu&ents" MI1/AEL 6YR)N" an& he ca((e&
it 7)2T 1ARD M*2I1.
Yes( I went through a period of a)out a *ear
1!23 when I found that a num)er of m* musical
ideas were easil* notated on one page or in one
ver* small space. It occured to me that these
might nicel* make postcards( or 4Score &ards4(
and I called the series P5S#%L PI6&6S. I am not
doing that kind of thing an*more( although there
are certain things a)out some of those pieces
that I am still interested in..... a piece like
'5%7 for 8iolin( for e+ample. 9o *ou know that
one?
Is it %inte& in one o4 the issues o4
2)*NDIN82?
7o. #his has onl* appeared in the post card
form.
Then I &on#t kno' it.
In '5%7 and some of the other P5S#%L PI6&6S the
form of the piece is so simple and linear that
it will )ecome utterl* predicta)le to a listener
after a ver* short time. :* feeling is that( as
soon as that happens( the listener then )ecomes
free to concentrate on more detailed aspects of
the sound( )ecause he knows that he is not going
to )e surprised )* an* formal or 4dramatic4
turns here or there.
I see.
%ll there is to listen to the microacoustical
details.
An& the (istene con4onts himse(4 much moe
'ith the music.
;ight. I reali-ed( in writing these pieces( that
this was one wa* to avoid drama. Haha..... which
I/m still tr*ing to find wa*s to avoid.
7ieces I kno' 4om scoes" (ike 9*INTE:T" 'hee
each %iece is 'itten as a !estue 4o anothe
com%ose; <ELDMAN" :ENA=I2" R*88LE2" >ARE2E"
7ALE2TINE. Aen#t they &e&ications in the best
sense" because they !as% the s%eci4ic %esona(
%e4ume?
Personal what?
7e4ume. They ae &e&ications in its !enuine
stuctue" (ike you $ust ty to 4ee( in the 'ok
o4 <ELDMAN.
.ell( the onl* pro)lem with that is that in most
cases it worked the other wa* around. #hat is(
the dedication didn/t come )efore the
composition of the piece( rather afterwards or
during the course of writing. $ut I wanted them
all to )e dedicator*. ,re<uentl* these
relations were ver*..... how can I sa*.....
trivial ones. Like the &H5I; 5, %7=L6S ,5; &%;L
;>==L6S. You know( the music is totall* unlike
;>==L6S/ music( )ut the initial chord has the
same interval structure as the initial chord
of his piece called %7=6LS. #hat was deli)erate(
and that/s something that occurred 9>;I7= the
composition of the piece.
The (ast %iece o4 9*INTE:T is &e&icate& to
1/ARLEMA8NE 7ALE2TINE.
Yes. He was a graduate student at &al %rts when
I was teaching there. He was doing ver*
interesting things with the voice and in piano
improvisations( and this was a kind of personal
gesture to him. 6ven though his work was ver*
different from m* own( we were )oth concerned
with tim)re and the harmonic series.
I see. anothe %iece concene& 'ith hamonic
e0%ansion is 27E1TRAL 1AN)N 4o 1)NL)N
NAN1ARR)W" 'itten 4o a %(aye %iano 'hich is
tune& to the hamonic seies. I ha3e $ust seen
the scoe" but the %iece must soun& 4antastic.
Was it %e4ome&?
I have not *et heard it either( )ecause it has
taken a long time to get the piano roll
punched. I went to visit 7%7&%;;5. a couple of
months ago( and I )rought the roll with me
)ecause he has a special machine for punching.
.e started to punch it while I was there( )ut I
couldn/t sta* long enough to finish it( so he
kept it( and finished punching it for me. It is
in the mail on the wa* here now( so I hope to )e
a)le to hear it soon. So far( though( 7%7&%;;5.
is the onl* one who has actuall* heard the
piece.
I hea& he is (i3in! in Me0ico?
#hat/s right.
/e is Ameican" an& $ust &oin! 7(aye 7iano
%ieces.
Yes( the* are a)solutel* fantastic!
2o 4a I ha3en#t hea& any %ieces by him.
He is one of the reall* great composers living
toda*.
/o' o(& is he?
He was )orn in !?( so he/s "@ *ears old.
You kno'" 'e shou(& kno' much moe about these
com%oses on the West 1oast" because Euo%e
&oesn#t kno' too much about them.
9o *ou know the maga-ine 7>:>S .6S#?
Yes.
#hat is one source where *ou can get such
information.
Then" I kno' the atic(es you 'ote in the
issue o4 2)*NDIN82 about I>E2" R*88LE2 an&
>ARE2E. Do you see a ne' 3a(uation o4 these
com%oses?
I have alwa*s )een interested in those
composers( )ut do *ou mean in the sense of a
larger pu)lic?
No" I mean i4 they ae ins%iin! ne' music.
#he* were ver* important to :6. In fact( ;>==L6S
and 8%;6S6 were teachers of mine. I actuall*
knew them. I was closer with ;>==L6S than
8%;6S6( )ut I considered them )oth as teachers.
1ou(& you $ust &escibe the e0%eience you ha&
'ith R*88LE2" because I hea& he 'as 3ey
stict in his com%osin! an& teachin!.
I met him when I was a student at $ennington
&ollege in 8ermont( and he lived in the little
town of %rlington( which was Aust fifteen miles
awa*. I got to know him( and we )ecame reall*
close over a period of several *ears. .e used to
have long talks a)out things that I pla*ed for
him on the piano. Later I pla*ed for him tapes
of m* own electronic music( and we would talk
a)out those. I don/t think of him as 4strict4 at
all( although in his own music he worked with a
fantasticall* refined techni<ue..... and a
fantasticall* refined 6%;. %lwa*s searching for
the 4perfect4 sound in a given place in a piece.
An& he 'oke& 3ey (on! on %ieces" (ike ten
yeas on one.
;ight. $ut ;>==L6S developed a kind of dissonant
pol*phon* unlike an* other music( and this was
done without an* sort of s*stem( which might
have facilitated his compositional process( )ut
simpl* 4)* ear4( one might sa*.
Do you think it is actua((y moe his technique
o4 com%osin! 'hich is ins%iin!" o &o you think
it is his music too?
$oth. His music is ver* )eautiful!
Ya? Like 7/ILI7 1)RNER 2ai& that his sty(e has
become 'atee& &o'n by the mo3ie music
com%oses.
It seems to me that movie music is coming more
from S&H567$6;= than from ;>==L6S. .hat PHIL is
talking a)out( I guess( is what ;>==L6S and
S&H567$6;= had in common..... sonorities )ased
on 2ths and !ths( and a certain kind of post0
romantic or neo0romantic gesture in the melodic
lines( and so forth. $ut *ou know( even movie
music composers can/t destro* ;6%L :>SI&.
The othe one you stu&ie& 'ith is E8RARD >ARE2E.
You &e&icate& to him the 1RY2TAL 1AN)N.
I dedicated several pieces in m* life to
8%;6S6. #he first one was a piece of computer
music called PH%S6S( in !"@( and then later
one of the pieces in B>I7#6C#( 4Para)olas and
H*per)olas.....4
I think that >ARE2E is sti(( ins%iin! because
o4 his o%enin! u% o4 instumenta( music to ne'
sonoities taken 4om the en3ionment. An& I
$ust 'ant to kno' ho' &o you ea(i5e this as%ect
in you %esent %o$ects.
#his awareness of environmental sounds will
alwa*s )e important to me( even when I/m not
actuall* incorporating such sounds in a
particular piece. #he lessons to )e learned from
the music of 8%;6S6 are unforgetta)le( )ut of
course man* of the same 4lessons4 are implicit
in the music of &H%;L6S I86S and D5H7 &%=6( too.
Let/s not forget that!
Ae you !oin! back to com%ute music?
I/ve actuall* used a small computer for certain
things in several recent pieces( and I e+pect
to do more work with the computer ver* soon( )ut
right now I am working with instruments and
still finding an e+citing area of things that
can )e done with traditional instruments. Some
of these are related to m* e+periences with
computer music( some are not.
1ou(& you &escibe the %iece you ae 'okin! on
no'?
Yes( right now I am working on a piece for
strings and percussion in which I am attempting
to simulate speech. #his o)viousl* involved the
same kind of acoustical thinking which one
might use in electronic or computer music( )ut
it fascinates me to do this with traditional
instruments. #he piece will )e called #H;66
I79I=675>S S57=S for &ham)er 5rchestra( and will
involve 4settings4 of a .HI#:%7 poem( an
%merindian te+t( and an earl* %fro0%merican
$lues song. #hat is what I am working on right
now. I don/t have an* specific plans after that.
1ou(& you !i3e me some moe in4omation about
the music scene on the West
1oast.....ten&encies" c(ustes o4 inteest an&
so on?
.ell( it/s ver* e+tensive and varia)le. 5ne
would have to include ;5$6;# %SHL6Y and &H%;L6S
%:I;'%7I%7 in the San ,rancisco $a* region( L5>
H%;;IS57( =5;957 :>::% and m*self here in the
Santa &ru- area( 9%7 L67#E in Santa $ar)ara(
H%;5L9 $>99 in Los %ngeles( $%;76Y &HIL9S at
;ed0lands( 9%76 ;>9HY%; in 6scondido( P%>LI76
5LI86;5S( ;5=6; ;6Y75L9S( '67 =%$>;5( ;5$6;#
6;I&'S57( and of course( until his death a few
*ears ago( H%;;Y P%;#&H..... all in the San
9iego area.
%nd then <uite a num)er of our former students
at &al %rts have )een doing some ver*
interesting work..... though man* of them are
no longer in &alifornia..... like &H%;L6:%=76
P%L6S#I76( I7=;%: :%;SH%LL( 9%8I9 :%HL6;(
D5H7 %9%:S( :I&H%6L $Y;57( P6#6; =%;L%79 and
man* more. #he musical concerns range all the
wa* from theater and live electronics 1%SHL6Y(
:>::%( L67#E( ;6Y75L9S3 to the use of new 1or
ver* old3 instruments andFor tuning s*stems
1P%;#&H( H%;;IS57( m*self3( new vocal
techni<ues and 4te+t sound4 1=%$>;5( :%;SH%LL(
P%L6S#I763( 4sonic meditation4 15LI86;5S3( and
4gradual process4 1$Y;573( to a kind of neo0
primitivism arising out of a search for deeper
roots in pre0&olum)ian cultures 1=%;L%793.
I see.
#hese are some of the more interesting things
that are happening now.
2tu&yin! the AZTE12 an& /?7I2..... Who is 3ey
concene& 'ith this at the %esent time.?
I am thinking of P6#6; =%;L%79( though he is
no longer in &alifornia.
Whee is he no'?
;ight now he is in =uatemala.
)h" ha. Di& you %esona((y kno' /ARRY 7ART1/?
Yes. I worked with him for a while when I was
at the >niversit* of Illinois in !G!0".
Is thee someone 'ho is %ese3in! his
instuments?
Yes( a former student of his( who remained
with him as an assistant. His name is 9%7L66
:I#&H6LL( and he is still in San 9iego.
2o thee is ho%e that his music 'i(( be
%e4ome& in the 4utue?
Yes( it/s alread* happening( in fact.
It#s ea((y a %ity that on(y a 4e' in Euo%e
kno' about 7ART1/" /ARRI2)N" NAN1ARR)W"
etc..... Like RI1/ARD TEITEL6A*M. I met him
in Toonto" an& he to(& me that you &on#t
%ush you caee an& that you shou(& &e4inite(y
!o to Euo%e an& te(( a(( these %eo%(e about the
music o4 these ma3e(ous com%oses o4 the
!eneation o4 7ART1/. Di& you think about this?
I think I would like that( )ut I alwa*s
seem to have too much music to write. If the
opportunit* arises( however( I/m sure I would
enAo* doing it!