White Womans Tears

white womens tears | Abagond
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/white-womens-tears/
Abagond
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white womens tears

Fri 11 Jun 2010 by abagond
White womens tears is one of the main ways White American women have of derailing any talk of racism, particularly their own racism. It is part of a more general pattern of white people making their feelings matter more than the truth something you see too in the tone argument, for example. White womens tears can come about in different ways, but here is the classic scene: 1. A white woman says something racist. 2. A black woman points it out. (It could be any person of colour but it works best against black women
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3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
for reasons given below.) The white woman says she is not racist and starts crying. For added effect the white woman can run out of the room. Other whites, particularly white men, come to the aid and comfort not of the wronged black woman but of the racist white woman! The black woman, the wronged party, is made to seem like the mean one in the eyes of whites. The white woman continues to believe she is not racist.
Tables turned! It works so well that it is hard not to see the tears as a cheap trick. This is more than just a woman using tears to get her way. It is built on a set of White American ideas about race, listed here in no particular order: It works best when these two stereotypes can be applied: The Sapphire stereotype - black women as mean, angry and disagreeable The Pure White Woman stereotype - white women as these special, delicate creatures who need to be protected at all costs. It is what drives the Missing White Woman Syndrome and, in the old days, lynchings. The r-word: to be called a racist, however gently and indirectly, is a terrible, upsetting thing for white people far worse than, you know, being a racist. White people and their feelings are the centre of the known universe. Hearts of stone: meanwhile whites seem to have a very, very hard time putting themselves in the shoes of people of colour. Moral blindness: white people think they are Basically Good, therefore if someone points out something bad about them it must be out of hatred. White solidarity: whites are afraid to stand up against racism, particularly when they are with other whites. Also, they do not like it when you call other whites racists they seem to take it personally for some reason. All these things work together to help create the scene laid out above. It is why it works best for young, good-looking white women and why black womens tears have nowhere the same effect in a white setting. In my own experience White American women are by far the hardest to talk to about racism. Even if you get past all their defences and they believe what you are saying, they act like they are going to cry. So you either stop or you push on and are made to look mean and heartless.
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(http://abagond.files.wordpress.com /2010/06/lynching2.jpg) White women, the delicate creatures that they are, attend a lynching in Indiana, 1930. See also: Stuff White People Do: Rush to the aid of crying white instigators of racism, instead of the victims (http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2010/06/rush-to-aid-of-crying-white-instigators.html) step 5 above The feelings of white people (../2009/11/17/the-feelings-of-white-people/) The Sapphire stereotype (../2008/03/07/the-sapphire-stereotype/) The pure white woman stereotype (../2008/05/06/the-pure-white-woman/) The Missing White Woman Syndrome (../2007/12/27/the-missing-white-woman-syndrome/) the r-word (../2009/02/24/the-r-word/) The hearts of white people: the science (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/the-heartsof-white-people-the-science/) Derailing for Dummies (../2009/04/08/derailing-for-dummies/) Posted in stuff | 654 Comments
654 Responses
Menelik Charles on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 06:44:55 As Ive written before, Abagond, the cornerstone of white supremacy IS the white female. White womens tears are effectively a call to arms to noble white men to put some uppity Negro in his place, or to comfort them from the masculine wrath of the angry Black female.
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Jesus, has your country got some issues to work through or what???? Menelik Charles London England
SW6 on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 06:58:01 the photo of the lynching is so surreal to me. its so hard for me to accept that its a photograph of an actual moment that REALLY happened. the people all look so chill, so relaxed. they have utterly no concern that they are being photographed! my poor brothers to end up strange fruit. God rest their souls.
J Never heard of this term before but I get the point nonetheless.
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 07:08:59
I think part of the issue is possibly related to how teh world is constructed. Its a mans world as James Brown sung. So when you read the history books you are in essence reading White countries, societies, men, but not White women per se in the role of racism/White Supremacy etc. Some of the more Black radical scholars and also People of Colour feminists too would suggest that even without doubt that the White female is oppressed. Her fight is in essence to gain equality with her White male counterpart in the system of White Supremacy, rather than to tear that system, with the White males therein, to allow iin males who have been designated as Non-White, and also other females who are designated as Non-White So it is in this respect the White women has not been blamed specifically for any of the atrocities of the 500 years, and I am sure that some do not see themselves as part of that since history is a male construct. So in some senses it is natural some White females may have certain defence mechanism when dealing with this issue. Hope this makes sense typed whilst in a rush
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MerriMay on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 08:03:16 Great post!! They are far from these delicate creatures theyre made out to be. White womens tears are a more cunning way of garnering support that has nothing whatsoever to do with being hurt, or being the wronged party. Its attention seeking and self centred and panders to a gullible world that laps it up. Frankly Im sick of it, worth mentioning that this is a phenomenon that isnt limited to racism. Ive seen the water works come out over something as small as jumping a queue. Best to let the poor lass get served first than listen to her sniffling at the back because you see, being told to do the right thing is mean and hurts her feelings! Pathetic. SMDH
Menelik Charles @ J,
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 08:04:57
you know, you really should visit this site and see the alleged extent to which white women are oppressed. the facts will, hopefully, open your eyes! http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/ Thanks Menelik Charles London England
Mira on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 10:19:45 You know what? I always thought white men are the most racist as a group, but now I am not so sure. White women might be worse, simply because of the fact they see themselves as oppressed* and its harder for them to realize they have privilege. *Im not saying women (or all colours) arent oppressed. Sexism is still going strong in the world, but that doesnt excuse anyones racism. As for tears, I do believe many women learned to get what they want using sympathy (and, more than anything, males feeling uncomfortable) by crying. On the other hand, crying is healthy and I dont think people should try not to cry. But. If you are doing bad things, princess, expect others to criticize you and point where you did wrong, or even *gasp* get angry with you. That is ok. We all know youre taught to always smile and be polite and nice, but princess, politeness is not a priority- being a decent human being is! I know its more lovely to be polite than rude- but politeness is just a shell, it hides your true feelings, which can be really ugly and rotten and well, basically wrong. It is your fault- not others, princess- if they dont play by these rules, if they dont cover their true feelings under the shell of smiling and politeness. And yes, I know you believe we should all get along, and I know you believe youd listen what they have to say Only if they say it more nicely. But guess what, girl? Youre not making these rules, and other people dont exist just so you can have your precious feelings intact and in short, you are not the center of the world, or a race discussion. Its not about you girl and whether you felt hurt and insulted by someone pointing at your mistakes.
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PS-All being said, I must admit I did cry a few times when it comes to racism. Some images on Jim Crow museum and some posts here did make me cry.
leigh204 @SW6:
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 11:04:49
the photo of the lynching is so surreal to me. its so hard for me to accept that its a photograph of an actual moment that REALLY happened. the people all look so chill, so relaxed. they have utterly no concern that they are being photographed! The picture of the people especially the two women with their slight smiles watching the displayed bodies of those murdered young men is sickening. my poor brothers to end up strange fruit. God rest their souls. Its very sad. RIP.
leigh204 @ Mira:
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 11:19:25
PS-All being said, I must admit I did cry a few times when it comes to racism. Some images on Jim Crow museum and some posts here did make me cry. I was a young child when the movie Roots came out. My parents were immigrants and while they knew basic English, they actually learned English by watching tv. So many scenes stood out in my mind which made me cry: the brutal whipping of the main character, the forced separation of the main character from his daughter, the rape of his daughter, and the horrible mistreatment of the slaves. My young self didnt know what was going on, but I knew what happened in that movie was wrong.
leigh204 on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 11:55:38 I posted my story on here about this young girl (she happened to be white) who called my full lips the N-word in the Women with the most beautiful lips post. I have full lips and Ive been told it was my best feature. I was one of the few visible minorities in my school and I was teased because of my lips and mostly my eyes. In hs, I had one particularly nasty girl, a classmate, insult my lips when I applied lipstick in front of a mirror. She used the N-word when referring to my lips. I was so offended that I spit into her face. And as a result, I had detention for a whole week. It was so worth it! lol!
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Did the white girl get detention? How was she dealt with? Abagond: The white girl also received detention, but for only three days while I had a whole week. Apparently, spitting in someones face was considered more grievous than making a racial remark about ones lips. One thing, though, during my detention with that girl, I asked for permission to use the girls washroom. As I slowly made my way past her desk, I dropped a note. She read it and we exchanged looks and there was this understanding. I wrote that the next time she made a comment about me, Id do more than simply spitting. From that moment on, she stayed away from me. I forgot to add that this girl cried when the teachers/principal confronted her about her racial remark regarding my lips. She cried so much so that Im certain her detention was downgraded from a week to three days because of it.
FG on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 14:29:00 I had neither witnessed nor heard of the tears of white women phenomenon before I read this post.
SW6 @leigh204
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 14:53:35
ugh! Leigh! What a goddamn rotten to the core thing you had to endure with that creep girl and the dumb high school administrators. The nerve of this girl, behaving as though she is shellshocked??!? But, you really shined through the whole thing and put this cretin girl in her place. Simply awesome!
Jade on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 14:55:24 I have seen this phenomenon before but the black man was immediately seen as the wronged party.
Jade on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 14:57:14 * made a mistake, I meant the black man was immediately seen as the bad guy.
leigh204 @SW6
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 15:17:46
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@leigh204 ugh! Leigh! What a goddamn rotten to the core thing you had to endure with that creep girl and the dumb high school administrators. The nerve of this girl, behaving as though she is shellshocked??!? She cried the entire time she was being questioned. At the end of it, one teacher handed her a tissue to wipe her tears and even gave her a light pat on the back to console her! I couldnt believe it! The faces of the teachers and principal involved said it all. But, you really shined through the whole thing and put this cretin girl in her place. Simply awesome! Thanks. Im not a violent person, but this girl made me see red and I nearly hit her on the spot.
Ankhesen Mi BRILLIANT post, Abagond. As always (getting linkedas always).
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 15:53:31
Ive seen WWT so many times it makes me hesitant whenever a white chick tries to befriend me. Leigh204 big ups. Youre my hero of the day, and may all jealous bitches fall before your bomb lips. *nods* Is got a pair of my ownI can understand. Spit away!
dedgurlcingztheblooze on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 15:55:43 This is more than just a woman using tears to get her way. It is built on a set of White American ideas about race, Shouldnt the word sex also be attached to this? Although a black womans tears do not have the same effect when a white woman is the opposition (of course Ive never seen this scenario), I can personally attest to my tears having an effect on men (both black and white). Additionally if the white woman were a white man who cried, not as many people would come to the rescue. My less than five foot sister actually made a big six foot, three hundred pound white guy cry, while she was at work. Apparently he wanted to go off on someone about something that happened to his car and he choose her. He couldnt, however, intimidate her, and burst into tears. The other men on the premises, the majority of which were white, chewed him out for crying. I can say that when I get into arguments I sometimes start to cry out of anger and or frustration. It is the equivalent of a guy raising his voice. My voice, which is pretty low naturally, gets quieter and quieter when I am pissed, likely because I try to harness my anger instead of blowing up. I can honestly say, however, I have never cried during a conversation when I was in the wrong, but I am more willing to take responsibility for my actions than most. It might take me a minute to own up, but I do eventually.
dedgurlcingztheblooze @Leigh204
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I hope my intentions arent misunderstood when I ask what was the root for your offense when the class mate used the N word to describe your lips. Was it the actual slur, or the slur in reference to your physical features?
laromana on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 17:25:21 abagond, Thanks for posting this very important, insightful topic. My sister and I have been discussing the NEGATIVE role that White female privilege has played in our relationship lives. Its been interesting to note how BW in American are/have been HISTORICALLY mistreated as a result of, not just slavery, but White female privilege/White womens tears. In American society the WW has ALWAYS been placed at the top of the beauty hierarchy while the BW has ALWAYS been placed at the bottom. This is the MAIN reason that White womens tears are/continue to be such an effective TOOL of MANIPULATION against BW, in particular. From the very beginning, BW in America have been made to feel like EVERYTHING about us is WRONG (our nose, lips, bodies, hair, etc.) because they dont conform to White female features. Today when many WW try to mimic (via lip, butt, breast implants) physical features that are naturally associated with BW, and they are PRAISED/ADMIRED for them even though BW have ALWAYS been PUT DOWN for these same features. The most obvious NEGATIVE consequence of White female privilege/White womens tears relates to how BW are/have been treated in the relationship realm. In my life I have seen BW suffer the TRASHING of their HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY by men of ALL RACES, while WW are treated as if theyre the UNIVERSAL prize for men of ALL RACES. American WM/NON-BM have been taught that loving/dating/marrying BW is akin to a CRIME, while loving/dating/marrying WW is perceived as being ACCEPTABLE/COMMENDABLE. This is an important, OVERLOOKED CONTRIBUTOR to the UNACCEPTABLY high singleness rate among BW (in comparison to WW and other NON-BW). I think its especially OFFENSIVE to see MANY BM helping to reinforce the WARPED/SICK thinking behind White female supremacy/White womens tears by ATTACKING the HUMANITY/DIGNITY /FEMININITY (and NOT DEFENDING the HONOR) of the women that most resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS/SISTERS. Given the prevalence of White female supremacy/White womens tears, its not surprising that WW in America believe they are better than BW SOLELY because they are White.
Oyan on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 17:39:37 Oh my goodness, how many temp jobs have I been let go from because of a white womans tears! 1st ex.: young white female asks, do you really like your hair like that? (braids;early 90s) I reply yes; she wrinkles up face and states that braids are disgusting, me, (stupidly and innocently), write her a note that my hair is not her business, stop asking me about my hair etc. The next morning, she is sitting in her car with her husband/boyfriend crying; I go into office, am told my services are no longer needed, because we dont do that here. Am told that I frightened her and
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to leave the premises immediately. 2nd ex.: young college coed asks to meet with me to discuss her grade; I say sure, when do you want to meet, she snaps at me, tomorrow. I say ok, puzzled at her attitude. I get call from Dean, that said student, wants to meet with both the Dean and I because, students is afraid to meet with me alone! This after being in my class for 21/2 months with no visible problem. The hell.. She comes to meeting, teary-eyed. huh? I tell her that her current behavior is disengenuous, troubling and dishonest. The Dean looks like, are YOU crazy! lol! 3rd ex: during the final days of the Bush administration, (W), I make comments how I look forward to another administration, as this one was troubling. Female student, begins to cry, out loud in class, that I shouldnt say things about the president. I probably should not have as politics in the classroom can be troublesome. However, this was a speech course, and a student had just given their speech on something related (I forget what). Anyway, this white female cried her eyes out. The whole class was like yikes!. A young black female student, asked her what in the world was her problem; I asked to crying girl to leave the class room and compose herself. She gathers her things, and flees. ah, yes, the tears of the white female.
laromana on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 17:51:51 Oyan, Thanks for your excellent examples of how WWs tears lead/have led to RACIST, ANTI-BW treatment in the work and academic worlds. I hope that as more people are made aware of this phenomenon, WW who engage in this DISGUSTING, MANIPULATIVE behavior will be called on it. Im happy to see that the Italians didnt allow Amy Knox to use the White womens tears MANIPULATION to get away with murder. She will have to use LEGITIMATE means to PROVE her innocence (and MAYBE shorten/eliminate her sentence) rather than this overused American trick.
dalaran on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 17:52:02 Great post as usual Abagond, after reading the post at SWPD on the same topic, its nice for you to post this here. I have encountered this several times in my life. It wasnt until now when I read these articles that I notice that this is almost seems to be a part of normal WW upbringing. Disgusting.
JuJuBe on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 18:15:03 I recently read a book called Trojan Horse: Death of a Dark Nation and one of the chapters was about the Dead White Womens Club, which spoke about how the attractive white woman/girl gets so much attention from the press, while the disappearances/murders of non-white women and children are barely spoken of.
leigh204
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@dedgurlcingztheblooze: @Leigh204 I hope my intentions arent misunderstood when I ask what was the root for your offense when the class mate used the N word to describe your lips. Hey, its all good. Was it the actual slur, or the slur in reference to your physical features? It was the actual slur that set me off. What she said was very wrong. When I was a couple of years younger, I had white children making fun of my eyes. They called me every Asian ethnic slur they could think of while pulling their damn eyes. I didnt know what to do back then especially defend myself. Now that I was older, I wasnt going to let these folks get away with their sh!t. That girl knew full well what she had intended.
J Menelik, Cheers for the link
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 19:16:33
Will One name comes to mind: Elisabeth Hasslebeck.
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 19:50:03
camille on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 19:57:11 abagond- Great analysis of white womens tears. Have you written post about missing white women syndrome? lynn+oyan- Its sickening that you had to experience that. Maybe this why I have always rolled my eyes whenever I read or discussed the so-called oppression of ww. laramona- great points as usual jujube- that sounds like a great book
Titan on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 19:59:54 I love your blog..but it has highlighted something very important and worrisome to meI am a 30 year old married African woman with a beautiful son and two degrees working on a third. I have lived in the UK now for 7 yearsI have no white friends. None. I work with thembut are not friends with themto make matters worse, for a long time, while I was single, I never saw white menI literally could not tell you if a white guy who just walked past me is cute or not because I simply did not see him. I even schooled with them and yet. Yes. I am now very worried that I might be the worst kind of racist and not even realise it.
leigh204 @Will: One name comes to mind: Elisabeth Hasslebeck.

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on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 21:03:48
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Yes, if I recall she teared up during a debate with Whoopi Goldberg over the use of the N-word.
dalaran @Leigh OH GOD THAT THE VIEW EPISODE
on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 21:11:31
Also reminds me of when they were discussing the Blindside and if it had to do with the whole White Savior meme. They basically shushed the black woman up.
JuJuBe on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 21:44:14 See, now I can understand crying tears of frustration or sadness when you witness an injustice. I have shed tears myself after reading stories about racist incidents that happen (all too often) in this country. But, I do not understand the concept of crying when you ARE CLEARLY IN THE WRONG!!! And as for Elizabeth, she seems to be trying to act as if the word (used by Black people) upsets her so much it brings her to tears, but what she really seems to be crying about it the fact that SHE is not allowed to use that word!
JuJuBe on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 21:47:54 Dalaran- I had to check out the video you mentioned. Here it is . notice how Vanessa Williams concerns are TOTALLY brushed off, as if she has NO IDEA what she is talking about, and how one of the women HAS TO make the point that the kid in the movie was being treated poorly by OTHER BLACK KIDS, NOT WHITE KIDS! THAT IS WHAT THE MOVIE CHOOSES TO SHOW!!! That movie was MADE so white people can sit around and pat themselves on the back for being so generous to Black people!
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dalaran on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 22:11:24 Yeah, its disgusting. I believe there was an article and heated discussion about this on SWPD, but I cannot seem to find it atm. :\
Aiyo on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 22:29:46 Thanks for this post if I had 1 for everytime this has happend to me or my friends I would be one rich girl. I was 7 at the time and a white girl cut me and my friends hair off mine was a a little bit but you could see the uneveness but my friend was missing half a big twist and of course the girl who cut her hair started crying after we were yelling at her and we had made a half assed apology and we had to apologise for yelling at her WTF!!! If anyone should be crying it should be me you said something racist yet you are crying that I called you out on you crap saying I didnt mean it like that.
peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 00:03:56 ive seen this happen before myself. I don;t know why some white women think they are exempt from racist thinking and I get tired of some white women acting like theyre on par with bp when it comes to oppression and discrimination. Some of them think just because they are women that they can identify w/ the plight of blacks (usually black men only) and somehow that makes them exempt from racist thoughtsit doesnt. White women get the benfits of white privilege too and on top of that, I can quote a story about a lynching when I find it, basically the ww turned on her black lover to save face and the guy gets lynched after seeing eachother for a prolonged, consensual relationship.
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Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 00:08:29 yeah ofcourse vanessa williams gets brushed offi see that alot too, no one cares about bws opinion that is why
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 00:09:36 also i disagree w/ barbara walters, if it can happen w/ black and white families, why choose a black family to make look bad?
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 00:24:52 in terms of the view debate on the N-wordsighs. I get really tired of some wp crying over not being able to use the n-word or having an issue w/ bp using it amongst eachother. I personally do not use the word, but would i be more offended if it came from a wp than a bphell yes. I dont understand what are some wp losing by not being able to use the n-word, while its more accepted amongst blackswhat would these type of wp be losing? That is why i get irritated w/ the if i cant say it, you cant say it either, mentality. Personally, i wasnt raised to use the word and I cant even recall when i have refered to other blacks as n*ggas, but if a bp says its, i get it and can tolerate it moreso than a wp because history has not been equal. the history of the word being used from other blacks vs. whites is not equal. thats all there is to it. Also, i get so sick of hearing crash, used as a reference everytime someone talks about racism. that movie sucked. People think just cause they watched a damn movie crash, they have some special insight into racismwhatever.
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 00:29:59 the only time ive ever heard of a non-bp using the word without getting the sh*t slapped out of them is when there is a sense of familiarity or identity in the struggle between the two groups.
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 00:43:02 another thing that offends me as bp. I was not raised to use the word, i generally do not refer to other blacks that wayas a matter of fact, its a rare occurence for me to use it at all. So I am offended by the fact that SOME wp think because its used in hiphop then somehow all bp must use it in that context and that is not true for me and most of the other black women and men i associate with. Its rare i have NEVER NEVER heard my father call another bp a niggai have never heard him greet another bm and say wassup my nigga. never. so i take offense to that assumption being made. i dont even really hear my contemporaries (my brothers/cousins) use it as often as some WP would make it seem we use itso i dont like that.
leigh204 @peanut:
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 01:04:00
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White women get the benfits of white privilege too and on top of that, I can quote a story about a lynching when I find it, basically the ww turned on her black lover to save face and the guy gets lynched after seeing eachother for a prolonged, consensual relationship. What a coldhearted, cowardly, evil b*tch. How horrible for that poor man.
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 01:30:06 i also get irritated with the entitlement complex that some white women have. I remember when I was at college, we have to take the bus to get to the nearest market and its in a predominately black area. I went there to get my grocercies and our bus that comes from school was a little late. There were alot of bw,bm and black children around. These two white girls from the school were waiting too and they kept talking about how bad an area this way. one of them said if I had my carthis would be the type of area where I need to club-lock it. They were huddled together, holding on to eachother for dear life. They were acting as if people were shooting eachother up or something. Mind you, there was no nonsense going on. Just some everyday average people shopping around christmas time with their kids. But because they were black and it was a lowerincome area, I guess in these particular girls minds that made the area dangerous Besides the fact that they were stereotyping and acting racist (in my opinion) i was irritated by the fact that when our bus finally camethey run over to it shouting OUR BUS IS HERE, as if the calvary was swooping in to rescue them from some hell or someone was coming on a white horse to come rescue the poor,defenseless, white women from the rough, hard, world of the black. Got on my damn nervessome people are so used to being on pedestal and having walls and walls of protection it just gets annoying and ridiculous. A wwgoes missing you can rest assured there will be a nationwide search to rescue her. The wws black husband cheats on her, she can rest assured society will turn against the bm and come to resuce her from that black brute. A bw goes missing, were damn lucky to get a minute or so of press attention, no matter how upstanding and innocent-acting she was. A bw gets cheated on by her husband people blame her and her attitude for him cheating on herha! it kills me!
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 01:31:13 leigh, it was an excerpt from a book by Ida. B Wells that I read in my afro-american lit class. WHen I find it i will give a direct quote.
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 01:45:03 i also would add to the post abagond, how bm are defensless from the tears of ww as well. if a wm says or does something racist, atleast a bm has the option of calling him out, when it was ww you cant really do that. I remember my brother was away at college and these two drunken white girls (the gf and her friend of his roomate) came into the apartment and one called my brother a nigger in her drunken state. My brother couldnt do anything because he was in an area where if he had stepped out of line even just a little bit, she could have called the cops and Im sure charges would be pressed and it made into some big thing. Its just ridiculous, and she basically got away with saying that and no one will ever be able to call her on her racismbecause shes a white woman
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Ames on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 01:57:16 The man in the center of that photo looks like a skeletal version of Adolf Hitler.
leigh204 @Peanut:
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 02:00:10
The tears of white women reminded me of the case of a woman named Susan Smith. In 1994, she murdered her two little boys by leaving them strapped in their carseats and letting the car roll into a lake. Before the authorities found her childrens bodies, she cried (crocodile tears, mind you) on tv that a BM had carjacked her while her children were sleeping in the back. I studied her face and I knew she was lying from the getgo. How would it be possible for a BM to drive around with two white kids in the back of the car without being noticed? Oh, I remember how the white public ate it up. They believed her because of her fake, tearful pleas. The police were searching for a BM suspect when they had the murderer right under their nose all along.
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 02:05:17 the photo of the lynching is so surreal to me. its so hard for me to accept that its a photograph of an actual moment that REALLY happened. even worst, they frequently took these pictures and made them into actual postcards that got mailed around the US like some kind of sick jokes. Yesa picture of a lynched human being was made into a damn postcard http://www.withoutsanctuary.org/
leigh204 on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 02:15:13 Those picturesugh. How awful. I could only view a couple without getting sick to my stomach.
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 02:22:30 great example leigh. I have another example: I hate to bring this b.s. up again but, Taylor Swift. Damn, I got irritated everybody was up in arms acting like Kanye West jumped up on the stage, exposed himself and then attacked Taylor or something. Was it that serious that it warranted commentary from the president of the united states??? Are you serious?? Who the f*ck cares? Kanye is always an azz with everyone, but because of the pure white woman stereotype I have to hear about that bull sh*t non-stop for weeks and she got sent flowers from Janet Jackson and some nonsense. There are hundreds of bw being raped and mutilated daily in the DRC and the media spends more time talking about taylor swift and the president comments on it??? Psshi bet if you took a survey more people would know more about the Taylor Swift incident than the war in DRCpathetic
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 02:33:26 i hate to bring yet another personal example up. But, a time when I had to deal w/ the tears of a ww was on a school trip. My friends and I had an argument and my two girlfriends who
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happen to be white ganged up on me (for some stupid reason) and stopped talking to me. Im walking around by myself after dinner, tears dripping down. People just stare, no one gives a damn. Two days later my friend decides to try and grab my attention because she finally wants to talk to me. I told her to let go of my arm and I walked away. She goes off and starts crying. Later, someone comes up to me and tells me shes crying, I should talk to her blah blah blah. I ended up going over and talking and she DID apologize after that. But I cant help but notice the different response and sympathy her tears received and mine didnt. Now shes my friend, but I did get irritated by the fact that she doesnt even realize her privilege and Im sure she doesnt realize the response she received versus mine. Im not personally blaming her, but its true our tears do NOT have the same value and im sure shell never understand that unfortunately.
SW6 peanut said:
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 02:35:36
even worst, they frequently took these pictures and made them into actual postcards that got mailed around the US like some kind of sick jokes. Yesa picture of a lynched human being was made into a damn postcard @Leigh and Peanut WTF!! Unreal. I never knew about these postcards. I NEVER KNEW THAT! I FEEL LIKE IVE BEEN MADE A DAMN FOOL OF! These peoplewe go to their schools. THEY design the curriculum. No one ever gets tired of telling you that the Nazis made lampshades out of skin (which yes i think is horrendous) but no one ever educated me about these macabre postcards. Man, the Nazis were just one upping the inspiration they DREW ON FROM America.-DISGUSTING! A query: Im guessing the bulk of these postcards circulated in The South, not so much The North. Do you know Peanut?
Peanut on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 03:07:03 from what i understand they were mailed all over the USi think they were manufactured in the south
leigh204 on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 03:23:41 A person would have to sick in the head to enjoy these postcards. My gosh.
Y Wow this thread took off..but let me play a little catch up. @ Mira
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 04:09:28
You know what? I always thought white men are the most racist as a group, but now I am not sosure. White women might be worse, simply because of the fact they see themselves as oppressed* and its harder for them to realize they have privilege.
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I thought so to but this isnt the case. What you have said is spot on. There are racist white men, of course, but the fact that they(as a group) are in the spotlight and the poster children for who is racist people often assume this, when they should be looking behind white men, looking at his women. Like Menelik Charles said one of the primary driving forces of white supremacy and the violence that comes of it is protection of white women from non-white men, particularly black men. Things are changing now. I dont see as many young white men white knighting to protect the sanctity of the white womanhood. Whats sad is desptie all of this I hear black men say white women are less racist than white men, on average. Which is curious to me because racist parents dont teach prejudice to their sons and allow their daughters to be colorblind. Not only that but numerous studies have shown us that women tend to have stronger racial preferences than men when it comes to relationships AND white women are the most endogamous group in the United States. @ Will One name comes to mind: Elisabeth Hasslebeck. Absolutely. Whoopi was only speaking truth when that clown started boo-hooing about Why cant my child say the N word, we are all the same. Whoopi youre wrong. We all live in the same country! I just about threw up. Thanks for the post Abagond.
Paisley on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 04:34:49 According to eyewitness accounts of the aftermath of some of the lynchings, spectators (including those delicate flowers of white womanhood in attendance) were virtually knocking each other down to get a body parts from the murdered Black man as grisly keepsakes. Slightly off topic but I also recall reading that when some of the (white) people involved in the Donner party fiasco became stranded with no food in the Sierra Nevada that, though they ate the whites among them who had died natural deaths, they outright murdered their two Native American guides so they could chow down on them. The are other similar incidents that also come to mind. In the tiny minds of these kinds of whites, their victims are not human not realllly human, anyway, so its easy for them to commit such acts of depravity and still sleep well at night.
Alexandra Lynch on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 06:54:49 I normally dont reply much to posts and use them to interrogate my own privilege, but I did want to say that at least among many women I know, black and white, women who are white whose response to being called out for being less than civilized is to weep and say, look at you meanie you made me cry are considered to be underhanded manipulators, which makes them untrustworthy in all spheres of their lives.
leigh204
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on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 11:40:10
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^ The crying reminds me of little children throwing tantrums to get what they want.
Oyan on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 13:43:20 I remember during the 2008 campaign, when then Senator Hillary Clinton wept, and almost changed the outcome of her bid for president. This is not necessarily the same as the white female use of tears after an un-politically correct racial comment, but I distinctly remember the reports surrounding her crying on the campaign trail. Not that her tears were not genuine, but I remember feeling like this was manipulation.
Aiyo @Leigh204
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 13:46:27
Yeah I heard of Susan Smith South Park did an episode on the whole blame the POC thing but they said it was some puerto rican guy LOL There was a recent one of a white woman Bonnie Sweeten who said she and her daughter were trapped in the trunk of a car and were kidnapped by some black guys who had a cadilac when she really just went to Disneyland I knew that story was a lie as soon as I heard the word cadillac what next they had big afros and called her a jive turkey?
Thaddeus Now for the big question: can white womens tears be bottled?
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 14:29:28
Ankhesen Mi on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 15:18:21 WowI remember this one white girl I hung out with in college. And whenever she partied too much and flunked a class or overdrew on her checking account and had to call her dad, she would start the tears FIRST, cry her way THROUGH the phone call, hang up, and then suddenly the waterworks would magically end. *shudder*
FG on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 17:29:31 Im not sure whether men or women are more racist, but something I have noticed is that there are some gender differences in the form that racism takes. Racism among men tends to revolve around such issues as labor market competition, crime, and immigration. Women may also manifest racist tendencies with respect to these issues. However, many women seem to practice a type of racism that men generally dont. For evolutionary and/or cultural reasons, a large fraction of females are concerned with being considered more physically attractive than other females. This competition can take place on an interpersonal, intraracial level, such as two white girls in the same sorority vying for the affections of an ultra-popular fraternity dude. However, competition in many cases is percieved to take place on a group (racial) level as well. Thus some white women want white females in general to be considered more attractive than women of other races. Most of my experiences have been with white women, but I dont think sense of racial competition over
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beauty perception is limited to them though. In any case, this competitive frame of mind will lead some females to disparage the physical features of women of other races in order to bolster the claim of their group to being the most attractive.
Herneith on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 18:52:02 What I would like to know is why they take such umbrage, enough to turn the water works on, when called out for racist behaviour. A woman at work told me she was called a racist. She asked me if I thought she was one. I responded by telling her, that I didnt know her well enough to make that call, I was trying to be diplomatic that is. All the while she was looking at me with her eyes tearing up. What I really wanted to say to her was; why the h@ll are you asking me? I also noticed that she didnt approach any white folk with her concern. If she was looking to me to validate her lack of racist feeling, she came to the wrong person. It was not the first time she has been accused of racism, probably wont be the last. I find such behaviour irritating to say the least.
Nicole on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 19:24:30 Another anti-white post by affirmative action baby Abagond. The extremists and black racists who frequent this blog are hypocrites, and have nothing better to do but belittle white women but then get upset if any bw are disrespected. Black women are so insanely jealous of white women. I find it sad. White women dont even give black women a second thought, yet you people are obsessed with us.
abagond Nicole:
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 19:35:27
Either go by the name you used in all of your other comments Andrew or get lost. I do not allow sock puppets.
leigh204 LOL! Nice going Nicole, er, I mean, Andrew.
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 19:39:39
JuJuBe on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 19:39:49 Nicole if I am truthful with you and say your comment is extremely racist, are you going to run off and cry and expect everyone to comfort and embrace you??? LOL And by the way, Nicole, if white women dont give Black women as second thought, why are you, and almost every other white woman I know, always SWEARING up and down that Black women are jealous?? And, Nicole, I am a white woman and I do not feel the slightest bit belittled by this post. The only reason to even THINK that this post is belittling is if you see yourself in the description and do not want to admit it.
G-Ball JuJuBe -
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 20:19:38
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Man I dont ever want you to put me in my place!!!! I bet Nicole or whomever is crying now, if not, she probably wants to cry!
Will on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 21:45:38 Susan Smith, Bonnie Sweeten and other cases of phantom black men show that whether theyre true or not this society runs quick to help the privileged white person and slow to help the POC who deserve help. I call this one case of white immoral morality.
MerriMay Nicole/Andrew
on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 23:39:10
Get over yourself, there is absolutely nothing to be jealous of. If it helps you or your ilk to sleep better at night, hey knock yourself out! LOL
Danila on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 01:24:47 Are racist white women less likely to be race conscious than racist white men? Does this lack of race consciousness contribute to the tears?
Herneith on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 02:16:08 White women dont even give black women a second thought, yet you people are obsessed with us. Yes, so much so, that a white woman like you, comes to this blog to remind all us hypocrites and black racists of this fact. If its any consolation to you, Nicole/Andrew, I dont give white women a second thought unless they start with the water works as a form of manipulation in order to garner sympathy. It puts me in mind of that song; Cry Me a River. I much rather listen to that song than some white woman caterwauling in order to get out of a situation in which she is the offending party. Does this lack of race consciousness contribute to the tears? No, it means that some dumb schmuck will come to their rescue, especially if a black person is the offended party.
Peanut on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 05:48:12 White women dont even give black women a second thought, yet you people are obsessed with us. *sighs* another derailing tactic i see
Y http://www.wisevid.com/play?v=4Abgfdud55u9
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 06:10:04
LMAO season premier of my favorite show watch from 8:40 to 9:30
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Natasha W peanut,
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 13:53:57
I dont know why some white women think they are exempt from racist thinking and I get tired of some white women acting like theyre on par with bp when it comes to oppression and discrimination. Some of them think just because they are women that they can identify w/ the plight of blacks (usually black men only) and somehow that makes them exempt from racist thoughtsit doesnt. Amen. A quick visit to feminist blogs will show several comments comparing sexism to racism. One commenter went on a black females blog and said No matter how bad racism is, it will never be as bad as sexism. O RLY? Y, Like Menelik Charles said one of the primary driving forces of white supremacy and the violence that comes of it is protection of white women from non-white men, particularly black men. Things are changing now. I dont see as many young white men white knighting to protect the sanctity of the white womanhood. Whats sad is despite all of this I hear black men say white women are less racist than white men, on average. Im glad you said it. One thing that makes me wonder is when black men go on and on about white racism (i.e. white males racism), then turn around and defend white women. So white men are racist, but white women are not?? They grew up in the same households, in the same country, under the same influences; get real. Ive seen white womens tears work effectively but a few times and in two out of three of those instances it was black men who ran to their defense (in the other it was fellow white women).
Mira on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 14:32:48 Hmmmm I think the difference often goes because, well, black men are men, and white women are women. So if you are attracted to a woman (even subconsciously- you are a straight guy and of course youll prefer women to men), it can make you give her a pass where you wouldnt for a white man. Also, it is more likely for men to discuss certain issues, and women to discuss other. Im not saying male-female friendship or conversations are non-existent, but I do believe its more likely for a guy to discuss certain issues with a guy and learn about his racist views. (Im not saying this is a general rule: after all, the author of this blog is a straight man who claims white wo0men are the most difficult to talk with about racism).
Natasha W on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 14:39:29 Hmmmm I think the difference often goes because, well, black men are men, and white women are women. So if you are attracted to a woman (even subconsciously- you are a straight guy and of course youll prefer women to men), it can make you give her a pass
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where you wouldnt for a white man. Then why dont black women get a pass from white men?
Mira on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 14:48:43 You mean, why dont white men get a pass from black women? I dont know: do they? When I said get a pass, I didnt mean that black men really think white women are not racist. But if many of them do think white men are more racist than white women, it could be because of attraction or the fact black men dont know/dont talk often with white women, or they talk about different, neutral things.
Natasha W Mira,
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:05:25
You mean, why dont white men get a pass from black women? I dont know: do they? No, you said that attraction to the opposite sex is what causes black men to be blind/ignore/excuse the racism of white women. So I wonder why white men dont give black women a pass (i.e. they dont ignore any wrongdoings of black women, dont defend them, etc). But to answer your question, no, I dont think white men get a pass from black women, on average. When I said get a pass, I didnt mean that black men really think white women are not racist. But if many of them do think white men are more racist than white women, it could be because of attraction or the fact black men dont know/dont talk often with white women, or they talk about different, neutral things. I dont think the latter case is true black men do interact with white women. Ive noticed that many black men have white female friends; I first recognized this in college and its continued to be true since then. Actually, white friends in general. My SO noticed it too. Hes said that, if a white person (especially a female) interacts with and is familiar with black people at all, it is more likely that these people are males.
Mira So I wonder why white men dont give black women a pass Because they are racists?
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:18:35
I thought we were talking about black people here, what they think whos more racist: white men, or white women. Now, in theory, we should discuss what people of any race think whos more racist, but the sad fact is that whites dont think they are racist at all, so its hard to make them measure racism of their own group. All in all, it was just a theory that seemed logical to me. It looks like its not the case in reality, so I really dont know.
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Mira on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:21:46 And its interesting about white women and black men. I always assumed most of the people have more friends of the same gender. Of course, its not a rule, but (white) females often complain about not having male friends, and discuss whether male-female friendship is even possible, blah blah blah. So I dont know. I guess I just assumed most of the interracial friendships are same gender ones (I guess I was wrong here too).
Natasha W Because they are racists? Lol.
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:36:51
I thought we were talking about black people here, what they think whos more racist: white men, or white women. Well, you introduced gender as a possible reason why black men defend white women. So I wondered if gender/attraction is really the determining factor in the way one views another (in regards to racism or otherwise), then why doesnt the same apply when the races are switched?
J With regard to the dialogue between Natasha W & Mira Forgive me for interrupting here.
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:39:10
Personally, I think there are a lot of other variables which needs to be taken into the account, heres a few: 1. The role of White women as pro-active participants rather than just waiting for Black males to approach them. 2. attraction/sexual stereotype and the perception of Black males as the different attractive/sexual other 3. Male privilege Certain types of males can go out on their own and meet ladies, where usually ladies do not go out on their own 4. Self-hate 5. White males in an inter-racial relationship will defend the cause of their partner, rather than those who are not in such a relationship.
Natasha W on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:40:16 Correct White men are more racist than white women and black men. I beg to differ. Not that there exists a scale of to gauge how racist a person is, but my experiences have told me racism knows no gender.
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Y on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 16:08:27 I agree with Natasha W if attraction to the opposite sex is the reason black men will fall for the white womans tears and let racism form white women slide, while being offended and angered by white male racism why doesnt it work in the reverse. If this is a matter of gender white men would be white knighting for black women and other non-white women, but this isnt the case. White men dont give passes to black women the way black men give pass to white women.
Natasha W on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 16:10:28 ^To add more to the above: Anyone thinking (some) white women are not as racist as (some) white men, needs to spend more time around white women. Simply because their racism takes a different form than that of white males doesnt make them any less so.
Y on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 16:15:47 White men arent more racist. Its the same but manifests itself in different ways. How can to groups that have the same experience in this country come out differently. The same conditioning and racist training that racist whites give thier sons is also given to their daughters. A white male will be told to not associate, date or hire non-whites, and make no apologies about it. Whereas a white female will be told all of the above but traditional femininity allows her to hide it better. Being female means she cant be seen as angry, overtly aggressive ect. Because of this she can be racist but still has to smile and act cordial. Anyone who has been to or lived in the South knows what I am talking about. The same thoughts are behind the racism ts just more acceptable for a man to be visible racist/aggressive than a woman. Hope that made sense
Y on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 16:18:45 exactly Natasha W. I think people are mistaking being soft-spoken with being nice/not racist. The guys attend private Klan meetings and the guys that attend the public rallies have the same thought process and are equally racist, just the latter is more bold in his actions
JuJuBe on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 16:44:09 Y- I think women are also given an out, in that, being a woman, they are seen as being under the influence of the men in their lives. so instead of their racism being seen as their racism, it is seen as a reflection of the men in their lives. So, patriarchy benefits white women, in that it gives them an excuse to be racist.
JuJuBe on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 16:55:39 Ah, but leavumthinking, do not confuse women not committing as many acts of violence in the name of racism as not acting on it Women, in general, tend to participate less in
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violence then men in general BUT that does not mean they are not sitting on the sidelines, cheering it on, encouraging it, and manipulating it. Personally, I find the more subtle activities of racists to be far more detrimental than the overt actions of a few. When a Black man is attacked because a white woman CLAIMS that he violated her in some way, she is just as guilty if he is harmed because of her lies, even if her male counterparts are the ones to actually carry out the attack.
Natasha W leaveum,
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 17:01:17
The difference between black men and white men is that black men see all women regardless of race as women. So when a white women cries a black man will come to her rescue as they would for any woman of any race. No, this is just not true, IME. There are very few instances Ive seen where black men run to the rescue when black women are being castigated, and these instances are etched in my brain. I used to think I was just imagining things, but Ive seen it over and over. The two most common responses by black men are (a) silence/doing nothing and (b) agreeing with the person/s doing the castigating, especially if it is another black male. Case in point, the Toure post on this blog. Everyone knows that white women are racist also but white men take it one step futher by acting on it. example dragging blacks from the back of pick up trucks, burning down black churches, the hangings, etc. Many people are racist towards blacks but nobody has acted out on it the way white men has past and present. And the white women who [falsely] accused black men and women of wrongdoings which were the direct cause of them being lynched, and watched these lynches with enjoyment were what? Not acting out their racism? Youd be surprised what white women say/do once they feel they are in safe territory. In any case, Id rather someone be open about their racism (making it easier to confront) rather than pull strings behind the scenes.
Natasha W JuJuBe,
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 17:03:07
Ah, but leavumthinking, do not confuse women not committing as many acts of violence in the name of racism as not acting on it Women, in general, tend to participate less in violence then men in general BUT that does not mean they are not sitting on the sidelines, cheering it on, encouraging it, and manipulating it. Personally, I find the more subtle activities of racists to be far more detrimental than the overt actions of a few. When a Black man is attacked because a white woman CLAIMS that he violated her in some way, she is just as guilty if he is harmed because of her lies, even if her male counterparts are the ones to actually carry out the attack. Great minds!
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JuJuBe on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 17:22:47 leaveumthinking are you a man or a woman??? because if you are a man, it would make sense that you have had more altercations with white men women tend to lash out at other women (or just talk about you behind your back) men tend to lash out at other men
Natasha W on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 17:32:18 leaveumthinking is a woman, Im pretty sure (as sure as one can be on the internet). Ive had clashes with white men too. Actually, Ive had more clashes with men in general than Ive had with women.
Danila on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 17:34:38 I agree with Natasha wrt black men, they dont see all women as women any more than anyone else. Black men not standing by black women is one of the saddest realities of our times. Black men rush to the aid of white women because of racism, and because without doing the hard anti-racist work to destroy racist beliefs, they believe white women are somehow better.
laromana leaveumthinking says No, this is just not true, IME.
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 17:37:28
There are very few instances Ive seen where black men run to the rescue when black women are being castigated, and these instances are etched in my brain. I used to think I was just imagining things, but Ive seen it over and over. The two most common responses by black men are (a) silence/doing nothing and (b) agreeing with the person/s doing the castigating, especially if it is another black male. Case in point, the Toure post on this blog. laromana says, leaveumthinking , thanks for stating this very important FACT about how MOST BM mistreat/contribute to the mistreatment of BW. Because MOST BM REFUSE to DEFEND HONOR/DIGNITY of BW, they CONTINUE to be the UNIVERSAL PUNCHING BAG of the world.
Natasha W ^Uh, it was me who said that.
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 17:38:12
Danila on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 17:39:20 And anyone who thinks white women arent just as complicit as white men in racism needs to read At the hands of persons unknown, the definitive work on the lynchings of Black Americans. The lynching culture was driven by the need to protect white women from black beasts. Not only were the white women the catalysts behind many lynchings, they were also right there egging the mobs on and serving up watermelon and ice cream.
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Natasha W Damila,
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 17:51:37
Black men not standing by black women is one of the saddest realities of our times. Emphasis on our times because I dont think it was always this way. It seems like a phenomenon of the past 25 years or so.
Alan BStard M P on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 18:20:33 perhaps white women should stop running out on white men for blacks Works both ways
J With regard to:
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 19:57:31
The two most common responses by black men are (a) silence/doing nothing and (b) agreeing with the person/s doing the castigating, especially if it is another black male. Case in point, the Toure post on this blog. Personally, I think you are on the wrong blog, if you are seeking this type of response. This is not the kind of blog to bring forward that level of consciousness. Rather, what one sees here is Black male diatribe, black female diatribe etc which really is rooted in self-hate, but very few would be brave to admit it. Sorry Abagond!!
Natasha W on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 20:06:36 J, that response can be found anywhere. This blog is no exception, as the aforementioned post shows quite clearly.
J on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 20:19:24 It still does not change what I said about the commentators on this blog Perhaps the other blogs are also of the same ilk. Would you like to say what these blogs are? If I had to hazard a guess can I would say they will not be race conscious and/or radical.
J Should read:
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 20:20:16
If I had to hazard a guess I would say they will not be race conscious and/or radical.
laromana CORRECTION:
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on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 20:33:33
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Natasha says, No, this is just not true, IME. There are very few instances Ive seen where black men run to the rescue when black women are being castigated, and these instances are etched in my brain. I used to think I was just imagining things, but Ive seen it over and over. The two most common responses by black men are (a) silence/doing nothing and (b) agreeing with the person/s doing the castigating, especially if it is another black male. Case in point, the Toure post on this blog. laromana says, Natasha , thanks for stating this very important FACT about how MOST BM mistreat/contribute to the mistreatment of BW. Because MOST BM REFUSE to DEFEND the HONOR/DIGNITY of BW, they CONTINUE to be the UNIVERSAL PUNCHING BAG of the world.
J With regard to:
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 20:54:39
Because MOST BM REFUSE to DEFEND the HONOR/DIGNITY of BW, they CONTINUE to be the UNIVERSAL PUNCHING BAG of the world. Personally, I know its difficult but ideally the best situation would be if Black women could make a stand for themselves and not even necessarily seeking or needing protection by men The problem here is that most Black men, and I presume we are referring to the US, etc do NOT have the wherewithal to even stand up for their own honour, and/or their community, let alone Black women. This is why some radicals not all though believe that if you target the males in how the world is presently (con-)structured, you will destroy a race ultimately. And these radicals believe this is what talking place. If this is the case, then it will have to be the women not the men who will ultimately save the race. When you study African history you will often see women literally fighting on the battlefield.
Aiyo @J
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 22:22:22
Personally, I know its difficult but ideally the best situation would be if Black women could make a stand for themselves and not even necessarily seeking or needing protection by men Yeah that whole black women do not need protection because they are strong to defend themselves against these attack they are strong black women after all.
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Natasha W on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 22:34:55 Personally, I know its difficult but ideally the best situation would be if Black women could make a stand for themselves and not even necessarily seeking or needing protection by men And black men should not call for the help of black women and others the next time the police is using a black males body as a pinata and throwing 1/3 of black males in prison. Deal?
laromana on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 22:41:52 J, EVERYONE can see the MANY ACHIEVEMENTS of BW and the FACT that MOST BM have had NO PART in MOST BWs success. The MAIN thing BW need is for ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER BM to LEARN to SHUT their MOUTHS and STOP ATTACKING/GOING ALONG WITH ATTACKS on the HUMANITY/DIGNTIY/FEMININITY of BW. Today I was reminded of the challenge that BW are facing/continue to face when it comes to ANTI-BW BM when I heard that yet another LOWLIFE BM (Slim Thug) is spreading ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in the American media world. BM ONLY EXIST because a BW CHOSE to BIRTH them period! BM have NO BUSINESS being ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS. I dont know of ANY NON-BM who make it their JOB to go around TRASHING the women who MOST resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS/SISTERS because they know this is the same as TRASHING themselves. MANY BM are such SELF HATING/COWARDS that they dont understand this BASIC concept. BW DESERVE to have their HUMANITY/DIGNITY RESPECTED by EVERYONE and there should be a HEAVY PRICE to PAY for ANYONE who chooses to ATTACK them.
MerriMay good points Aiyo and Natasha. @J
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 22:43:11
And how would you propose they make that stand mm? I mean where does one start? lol Whose ears do I bend to get enough of an audience that actually gives a crap enough to listen?!
SW6 on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 22:53:48 Personally, I know its difficult but ideally the best situation would be if Black women could make a stand for themselves and not even necessarily seeking or needing protection by men *vomit* The problem here is that most Black men, and I presume we are referring to the US, etc do NOThave
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the wherewithal to even stand up for their own honour, and/or their community, let alone Black women. *projectile vomit*
MerriMay Co-sign Laromana
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 23:10:18
I read that on a blog somewhere, lol, you have to laugh at these clowns. Im not sure where all this vitriol heaped on black women comes from. To be mules, not only carry our problems on our shoulders but theirs too. In real life its as bad. Im reminded of an incident just yesterday, on my lunchbreak. Got a quick sandwich and coffee. Theres a white woman in front of me, a black man at the counter taking orders. After exchanging some cheerful banter with this lady, my turn comes up and its all he could do to give me friendly service and damn near threw my money at me. There was that resentment Im increasingly feeling with young black males. White female professional is only natural, service with a smile,but hell be damned if hell give a black female counterpart the same courtesy.
J Natasha W, Unfortunately, I find your response indicative
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 23:27:11
Be that as it may if you cannot see that for women to be free, that they must in essence find their own destiny. Then I am seriously lost for words
J Merrimay, With regard to the question, And how would YOU propose they make that stand
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 23:29:39
It is for the likes of you to work out that path as a woman, not for me, or any other male to decide for you.
Natasha W laromana,
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 23:32:53
Today I was reminded of the challenge that BW are facing/continue to face when it comes to ANTI-BW BM when I heard that yet another LOWLIFE BM (Slim Thug) is spreading ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in the American media world.
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I saw that too. And I think its relevant to this post as it is a perfect example of how many black men have fallen into the trap of uplifting white women while disparaging the only people whove ever given a damn about them, black women: http://vibe.com/posts/slim-thug-black-women-need-stand-their-man-more?sms_ss=wordpress [Im still shaking my head that Vibe published this semiliterate, racist, sexist obliviousness from a D list rapper, but what can I expect; its Vibe.] EVERYONE can see the MANY ACHIEVEMENTS of BW and the FACT that MOST BM have had NO PART in MOST BWs success. Seriously. Black women should make a stand for themselves? What have they been doing all along? Its pretty clear that no one else is standing for them. But alas, I am reminded why I havent written off black men as a whole; black men with sense still exist. A response to Slim Thug from Columbia U professor and author, Marc Lamont Hill: http://www.marclamonthill.com/an-open-letter-to-slim-thug-7713
Natasha W J, Unfortunately, I find your response indicative
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 23:37:03
Be that as it may if you cannot see that for women to be free, that they must in essence find their own destiny. Then I am seriously lost for words In other words, you have no response. Sokay I wouldnt have one either if I had made such an inane assertion.
J Cheers Laromana,
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 23:52:53
What you have said does not minimise the point that I have said in fact I am not sure you addressed the political theory that posits to destroy a race in todays world, you would have to target the male. And heres another question to think about, What if racism is too strong to overcome, and many do become its victims, be they Black males and/or lower class Blacks (males and females). Where are you going to apportion the blame?? Because for a surety these same individuals who become its victims will also come back to haunt you in one way or another.
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J Natasha W,
on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 23:58:19
I will say it again, if you cannot understand that women need to take their own destinies into their own hand. Then its pointless having a conversation. I thought this would be so obvious I guess not
MerriMay on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:10:48 Short of taking to the streets with placards that assert the were in charge of our lives spiel, Im not sure how bigger a stand black women can take that they havent already all these years. Unless taking a stand has taken on a different form lately then Id concur.
J Merrimay,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:16:28
Not wishing to demean your experience but you see this type of treatment in UK quite regularly. To what extent was the treatment you received based on race as opposed to sex ie Black female?? And how would you know that if there was a Black male behind you, he would not receive the same treatment from the employee?? Cheers!!
J Merrimay,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:22:01
There are different type of stands ie like raising a family etc and there are those that are more overt and I am not referring to marching. My point I still think is valid if the men are failing then the women will have to take a stand, whether that be how they start to raise their male children to be non-sexist or fighting for better schooling, to even more overt political action. Personally I cannot see why this point should even become an issue??
Natasha W on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:25:53 J, once again, absolves black men of all responsibility/criticism while heaping all responsibility/criticism on black women. People, Im not making this stuff up you have a live show right here.
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FG on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:28:05 Personally, I know its difficult but ideally the best situation would be if Black women could make a stand for themselves and not even necessarily seeking or needing protection by men The problem here is that most Black men, and I presume we are referring to the US, etc do NOT have the wherewithal to even stand up for their own honour, and/or their community, let alone Black women. This is why some radicals not all though believe that if you target the males in how the world is presently (con-)structured, you will destroy a race ultimately. And these radicals believe this is what talking place. If this is the case, then it will have to be the women not the men who will ultimately save the race. When you study African history you will often see women literally fighting on the battlefield. A single gender cannot save a race. In order for a social group to prosper, the men and the women who belong to it must have amicable relations so that they can cooperate, build stable households, and rear children properly. Thats why the many angry statements about the percieved failures of BM left on this blog are an indication of deep trouble within the US black community.
J Well if it as you say.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:31:02
Then can you kindly answer this question you have avoided for the longest time Sorry but I am afraid you still have failed to give an answer to whether you hold African countries for the state they are in. At least in the US Black males do not control resources, economics etc. In African countries, you have Blacks who form government, laws, etc and yet we see poverty, famine disease etc. What I want to here from you is whether you blame the Africans for this??
FG @J, Who is your question directed to?
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:36:16
J on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:36:22 A single gender cannot save a race. In order for a social group to prosper, the men and the women who belong to it must have amicable relations so that they can cooperate, build stable households, and rear children properly. Thats why the many angry statements about the percieved failures of BM left on this blog are an indication of deep trouble within the US black
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community Wow!! Is this from the same person who I said defended all things White?? Be that as it may. With regard to: A single gender cannot save a race who knows but what we do know is that they can lead by example and inspire those who had lost hope, whether it be male or female. And this is the essence of my point women coming to the fore to take up the challenge where men have apparently not been succesful, on their own merits. However, and surprisingly this view has been contested which does not make any real sense in my humble opinion
J FG,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:38:44
This question is directed at Natasha W, and it is the second time now I have asked it. The first was on the Incarceration of Black Men but did not get a response
Natasha W on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:42:39 J, I honestly thought that question was directed towards FG. Ill maybe answer your question, as ridiculous as it is, tomorrow, since I have to go. But skimming it, I have to say is that resources have nothing to do with standing up for others. One only needs a mouth (or fingers, as it may be) to do that. Thus your comparison is, as usual, completely off-base.
Natasha W Also, I avoid nothing and no one (nice try!). On the contrary.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:44:07
J Wel, I would like to take the time to wish you a goodnight then.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 00:46:37
Thaddeus on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 01:24:57 J, once again, absolves black men of all responsibility/criticism while heaping all responsibility/criticism on black women. Interesting to see J get hit with the identity card for a change.
La Reyna on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 02:06:49 Heres a poem on white pedestaled womanhood by Beah Robinson:
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A BLACK WOMEN SPEAKS OF WHITE WOMANHOOD OF WHITE SUPREMACY OF PEACE A poem by BEAULA RICHARDSON Read by Beaula Richardson at the Womens Workshop at the American Peoples Peace Congress held in Chicago on June 29, 30 and July 1, 1951 bringing a standing ovation from all 500 women attending. It is right that I a woman black, should speak of white womanhood. my fathers my brothers my husbands my sons die for it: because of it. and their blood chilled in electric chairs, stopped by hangmans noose, cooked by lynch mobs fire, spilled by white supremacist mad desire to kill give me that right I would that I could speak of white womanhood as it will and should be when it stands tall in full equality. but then, womanhood will be womanhood. Void of color and of class, And all necessity for my speaking thus will be past. Gladly past. But now, since tis deemed a thing apart Supreme, I must in searching honesty report How it seems to me. White womanhood stands in bloodied skirt and willing slavery reaching out adulterous hand killing mine and crushing me. What then is the superior thing That in order to be sustained must needs feed upon my flesh? Lets look to history. They said, the white supremacist said that you were better than me, that your fair brow would never know the sweat of slavery. They lied
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White womanhood to is enslaved, The difference is degree. They brought me here in chains. They brought you here willing slaves to man. You, shiploads of women each filled with hope That she might win with ruby lip and saucy curl And bright and flashing eyes Him to wife who had the largest tender. Remember? And they sold you here even as they sold me. My sisters, there is no room for mockery. If they counted my teeth They did appraise your thigh And sold you to the highest bidder The same as I. And you did not fight for your right to choose Whom you would wed But for whatever bartered price That was the legal tender You were sold to a strangers bed In a stranger land Remember? And you did not fight. Mind you, I speak not mockingly But I fought for freedom, Im fighting now for our unity. We are women all. And what wrongs you murders me And eventually marks your grave So we share a mutual death at the hand of tyranny. They trapped me with the chain and gun. They trapped you with lying tongue. For, less you see that fault That male villainy That robbed you of name, voice and authority, That murderous greed that wasted you and me, He, the white supremacist, fixed your minds with poisonous thought: white skin is supreme. And there with bought that monstrous change exiling you to things. Changed all that nature had in you wrought of gentle usefulness, abolishing your spring. Tore out your heart, set your good apart from all that you could say, think, feel,
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know to be right. And you did not fight, but set your minds fast on my slavery the better to endure your own. Tis true my pearls were beads of sweat wrung from weary bodies pain, instead of rings upon my hands I wore swollen, bursting veins. My ornaments were the wipe-lashs scar my diamond, perhaps, a tear. Instead of paint and powder on my face I wore a solid mask of fear to see my blood so spilled. And you, women seeing spoke no protest but cuddled down in your pink slavery and thought somehow my wasted blood confirmed your superiority. Because your necklace was of gold you did not notice that it throttled speech. Because diamond rings bedecked your hands you did not regret their dictated idleness. Nor could you see that the platinum bracelets which graced your wrists were chains binding you fast to economic slavery And though you claimed your husbands name still could not command his fidelity. You bore him sons. I bore him sons. No, not willingly. He purchase you. He raped me, I fought! But you fought neither for yourselves nor me. Sat trapped in your superiority and spoke no reproach. Consoled your outrage with an added diamond brooch. Oh, God, how great is a womans fear who for a stone, a cold, cold stone would not defend honor, love or dignity! Your bore the damning mockery of your marriage and heaped your hate on me, a woman too, a slave more so. And when your husband disowned his seed that was my son
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and sold him apart from me you felt avenged. Understand: I was not your enemy in this, I was not the source of your distress. I was your friend, I fought. But you would not help me fight thinking you helped only me. Your deceived eyes seeing only my slavery aided your own decay. Yes, they condemned me to death and they condemned you to decay. Your heart whisked away, consumed in hate, used up in idleness playing yet the ladys part estranged to vanity. It is justice to you to say your fear equaled your tyranny. You were afraid to nurse your young lest fallen breast offend your masters sight and he should flee to firmer loveliness. And so you passed them, your children, on to me. Flesh that was your flesh and blood that was your blood drank the sustenance of life from me. And as I gave suckle I knew I nursed my own childs enemy. I could have lied, told you your child was fed till it was dead of hunger. But I could not find the heart to kill orphaned innocence. For as it fed, it smiled and burped and gurgled with content and as for color knew no difference. Yes, in that first while I kept your sons and daughters alive. But when they grew strong in blood and bone that was of my milk you taught them to hate me. PUt your decay in their hearts and upon their lips so that strength that was of myself turned and spat upon me, despoiled my daughters, and killed my sons. You know I speak true. Though this is not true for all of you When I bestirred myself for freedom and brave Harriet led the way some of you found heart and played a part in aiding my escape.
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And when I made my big push for freedom your sons fought at my sons side. Your husbands and brothers too fell in that battle when Crispus Attucks died. Its unfortunate that you acted not in the way of justice but to preserve the Union and for dear sweet pitys sake; Else how came it to be with me as it is today? You abhorred slavery yet loathed equality. I would that the poor among you could have seen through the scheme and joined hands with me. Then, we being the majority, could long ago have recued our wasted lives. But no. The rich, becoming richer, could be content while yet the poor had only the pretense of superiority and sought through murderous brutality to convince themselves that what was false was true. So with KKK and fiery cross and bloodied appetites set about to prove that white is right forgetting their poverty. Thus the white supremacist used your skins to perpetuate slavery. And woe to me. Woe to Willie McGee. Woe to the seven men of Martinsville. And woe to you. It was no mistake that your naked body on an Esquire calendar announced the date, May Eighth. This is your fate if you do not wake to fight. They will use your naked bodies to sell their wares though it be hate, Coca Cola or rape. When a white mother disdained to teach her children this doctrine of hate, but taught them instead of peace and respect for all mens dignity the courts of law did legislate that they be taken from her and sent to another state. To make a Troy Hawkins of the little girl and a killer of the little boy! No, it was not for the womanhood of this mother
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that Willie McBee died but for the depraved, enslaved, adulterous woman whose lustful demands denied, lied and killed what she could not possess. Only three months before another such woman lied and seven black men shuddered and gave up their lives. These women were upheld in these bloody deeds by the president of this nation, thus putting the official seal on the fate of white womanhood with in these United States. This is what they plan for you. This is the depravity they would reduce you to. Death for me and worse than death for you. What will you do? Will you fight with me? White supremacy is your enemy and mine. So be careful when you talk with me. Remind me not of my slavery, I know it will but rather tell me of your own. Remember, you have never known me. Youve been busy seeing me as white supremacist would have me be, and I will be myself. Free! My aim is full equality. I would usurp their plan! Justice peace and plenty for every man, woman and child who walks the earth. This is my fight! If you will fight with me then take my hand and the hand of Rosa Ingram, and Rosalee McGee, and as we set about our plan let our Wholehearted fight be: PEACE IN A WORLD WHERE THERE IS EQUALITY. _______________________________________ Please read this poem. Thanks. La Reyna
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Alan BStard M P on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 02:10:48 great poem, although the first few lines reflect the negros lust for white women seriously folks, you gotta stop blaming the white man for all your ills
leigh204 @La Reyna:
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 02:18:49
What a stirring poem! Profound and meaningful. Thank you for posting this.
La Reyna @Leigh204,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 02:36:13
Youre welcome. I hope this poem open peoples eyes about the oppression of POC by whites of both genders. La Reyna
Alan BStard M P on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 02:39:36 certainly a talented poet. I believe whites are innocent of most of these charges against them Whats a white anyway? With blacks here we are dealing with one race, the Negro, with whites there a a few races with different values and beliefs
leigh204 @La Reyna: @Leigh204,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 03:26:53
Youre welcome. I hope this poem open peoples eyes about the oppression of POC by whites of both genders. La Reyna This poem has certainly touched me. Its unfortunate that the person above me has gained neither insight nor understanding from such a moving poem.
laromana on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 05:05:22 J says, My point I still think is valid if the men are failing then the women will have to take a stand, whether that be how they start to raise their male children to be non-sexist or fighting for better schooling, to even more overt political action. Personally I cannot see why this point should even become an issue?? laromana says, J, your REFUSAL to see/accept the TRUTH about MOST BM and their OBVIOUS
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IRRESPONSIBILITY as it relates to PROTECTING/DEFENDING the HONOR/DIGNITY of the women of their race, is APPALLING/DISGUSTING. How dare you suggest that BW need to do MORE than they already do to MAKE UP for the MANY BM who arent fulfilling their PROPER ROLES/RESPONSIBILITIES towards BW/the BC. Also, why dont you stop MAKING EXCUSES for the WRONG actions/attitudes of MANY BM who DISRESPECT/DISHONOR BW (eg. your question to Merrimay-To what extent was the treatment you received based on race as opposed to sex ie Black female?? or your claim- most Black men, and I presume we are referring to the US, etc do NOT have the wherewithal to even stand up for their own honour, and/or their community, let alone Black women.). There is NO EXCUSE for those BM who CHOOSE to be IRRESPONSIBLE towards BW/the BC. BW have/continue to receive MORE DISCRIMINATORY treatment (RACISM/SEXISM) than BM do/have but manage to achieve MAJOR success in many arenas, despite the MANY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS (including MANY BM) who have come/continue to come against them.
Danila on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 05:06:07 Yes to that poem. White women continue to trap themselves with their tears. If you need to be rescued every time you do wrong then you will always be seen as inferior. White supremacy is ultimately white male supremacy.
Alan BStard M P why do white women have tears?
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 07:15:54
how do you mean white supremecy? I see. We are isolating the white male are we? Why? Simple question..why?
Alan BStard M P quote
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 07:21:42
Youre welcome. I hope this poem open peoples eyes about the oppression of POC by whites of both genders. La Reyna This poem has certainly touched me. Its unfortunate that the person above me has gained neither insight nor understanding from such a moving poem. Thats very opinonated of you. I appreciated the poem. You are a good wordssmith, but that poem is not build on truth of substance, merely political opinion Its true what i said before Whats a white anyway? With blacks here we are dealing with one race, the Negro, with whites there a a few races with different values and beliefs
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MerriMay J said:
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 09:48:37
Not wishing to demean your experience but you see this type of treatment in UK quite regularly. To what extent was the treatment you received based on race as opposed to sex ie Black female?? And how would you know that if there was a Black male behind you, he would not receive the same treatment from the employee?? _______________________________________________ On one hand there is an admission on your part that this sort of thing happens, might I assume that its something you have observed to be written off as happening regularly then?! Then again youre illustrating someones point earlier, of a black males readiness to defend the white female, and heap blame on the black woman. Notice how you dismissed the black male treatment of the white female, stellar as it was. My experience cant be valid unless it happened to and backed up by the phantom black man behind me? How can I make a stand when you think to do so there needs to be that black man behind me?? And here you are J wanting black women to take a stand. I said before if we cant even get people to believe that its happenng to us, were met with skepticism, disbelief, its downright demeaning J, you doing exactly what you sought not to do, or so you said! Since Im the lone black female in that company then Ill pose the same question: To what extent was the treatment she received based on race as opposed to sex ie white female?? And how would you know that if there was a white male behind her, he would not receive the same treatment from the employee?? Ill let you off on receiving good service because shes of the fairer sex( fair I am not, lol) ie female, by that token I should receive the same, no? but naivete comes into play here when you presume my color had nothing to do with it. I must have imagined it, because there wasnt a black man behind me to disprove it, but right here in front of me, as he was, dishing it out. SMDH
J Laromana, Merrimay
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 10:53:57
Personally what I see here is individuals specifically females, who have a self-hate for being Black and that manifests itself in a hatred toward Black males. This is how the nature of oppression works, blame everything and everyone else but not the perpertrators. It is easier to direct that self-hate toward Black males because it is easier to be complicit with a White racism, and/or it is in fact harder to blame the racist society/White global supremacy. This may explain the reluctance of the women who a reluctant to take a stand against racism etc.
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Perhaps its because such a stand would in fact mean these individuals fighting against the things which they love.
J Merrimay, With regard to your example I was not demeaning your experience. I do concede what you say could be true.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 11:51:18
However, the truth of what I suggested may also have some merits. I receive all sorts of treatment as a Black male in shops from the different races, nationalities etc in the UK. Even from my own experences, some times its hard to work out: 1. Are you the victim of racism?? 2. Are you the victim of ethnocentricism?? 3. Is it based on different cultural traditions that I do not understand?? 4. Is it based on self-hate?? and the list goes on That you chose to see and accept it as a Black male dis-respecting you because you are a Black female. Then that it is ultimately your choice, and I respect your right to make that choice I was merely seeking clarification, which I think I have the right to do on a chatboard
MerriMay J,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 12:43:50
Yours is a sweeping statement, youd have to clarify who exactly has self hate issues. Again I see youve exhibited a so-called trait particular to black females that you exempt black males from. Classic! Come on, you have to do better than those types of double standards! Id like you to outline those self hate issues that youve concluded I have. The topic at hand White Womens tears led us to how even (black) males can be complicit in this type of manipulation by white females. I gave my own example, you concurred that it happens, but contradict yourself that only if theres someone to back it up, afterall my word alone isnt enough. You want black females to take a stand, Ive put it to you how to start when were met with, accusations to the contrary. Ive made clear my feelings on white supremacy, to be accused of being complicit with the perpetrators( white females in this instance) boggles my mind. How pray tell have you come to that conclusion??
MerriMay You went further:
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 12:58:49
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I do concede what you say could be true. However, the truth of what I suggested may also have some merits. I receive all sorts of treatment as a Black male in shops from the different races, nationalities etc in the UK. Thats true, in this instance a lone black female in an all white English environment, give or take a smattering of European nationalities and an Asian. All things being equal, were all subject to the same treatment/service no?. I didnt bring it up to castigate black males, lest you think Im self hating, thats absurd! More to back up a rather puzzling phenomenon of the types of treatment were subject to as black females, whether the perpetrator is black or white. White females get a pass that we as black females arent privy to.
J Merrimay, I am not sure how best to put thsi.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 13:02:29
I am trying to find out whether this is a stereotype that you have and so in a scenario where you see a Black male behaving accordingly then it supports your world-view, without you having the necessary facts to the objective situation If you do not have all the necessary facts, like a knowledge of the Black male employee politics, does he serve this White woman everyday? Have I noticed that he has also treated other Black females in a similar way, and hence it cannot be personal Then this is would ultimately lead to a self-fulfilling prophesy. From the account you gve, unless I mis-read it, seems to note only a few limited variables 1. The behaviour of the Black male 2. His reaction to the White woman 3. His reaction to you as a Black female (but NOT as an individual/person) = Another instance of a Black male dis-respecting a Black woman in favour of a White woman
Natasha W J,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 14:51:14
Then can you kindly answer this question you have avoided for the longest time Again, I dont avoid questions. Never have, never will. Its pretty disingenuous of you to say this. Sorry but I am afraid you still have failed to give an answer to whether you hold African countries for the state they are in. At least in the US Black males do not control resources, economics etc.
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I just want to say I commend you for bringing up the topic of Africa! For sure, this topic has never been broached by blacks in the diaspora wishing to find excuses for themselves! This is when Im supposed to say you are right, because *gasp* you brought up Africa/sarcasm Cheap tactic even from you, J. Here is my position on both of these issues: (1) Colonialism has left much of Africa in a state of disarray. However, colonialism and white supremacy are not the only culprits. Corruption by goverment officials and others that are supposed to be working in the interest of the people, have held back progress even further. Ive seen with my own eyes, the severe corruption. So, my answer to the first question is yes and no. (2) Racism has left much of black America in a state of disarray. I dont think Ive ever said otherwise; obviously I wouldnt visit this blog if I disagreed with that. However, I do believe that blacks much work to do outside of racism in order to move forward (There is no need to list the plethora of work that needs to be done). Racism is a stumbling block, but it can be overcome. So you see J, unlike you, I dont play favorites. Everyone has a responsibility to themselves.
J Cheers Natasha W. for the carefully crafted response.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 15:19:00
However, I do note what I perceive as subtle difference in response to the position of Black males in the U.S (a la the post on incarceration) and Blacks in Africa. Personally this is the answer I expected you to give. Why do I say so? If you had denounced Africans unequivocally then in essence you are denouncing the whole race. Well I think you should also apply the same reason to Black males in US also if you have not done so already.
Natasha W on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 15:21:19 ^However, I do note what I perceive as subtle difference in response to the position of Black males in the U.S (a la the post on incarceration) and Blacks in Africa. Your perception is off.
J Maybemaybe not
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 15:22:55
J on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 15:27:42 And now that I think about ityou did not even respond to my allegations. This is the first time you
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have made any comments So by a process of logic what I said stands viz your comment here is different to the other post, where there was no such comment.
Alan BStard M P wrong
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 15:31:49
The British at least gave the African parlimentary democracy, British style before independence. Africans ruined it The US even gave blacks their own State in Africa, the capitol Monrovia named after Preident Monroe. They ruined that! South Africa is at a state now that blacks want whitey back rinning it, Same in Zimbabwe
Natasha W on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 15:33:43 J, what on earth are you talking about? I answered your question. Now youre just babbling.
Alan BStard M P on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 15:34:18 you dont see white males making music video referring to bitches & hos
Herneith on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:11:34 J, you are nickling and dimeing MerriMay. I have seen this on numerous occasions, but with both genders. I will give you one such anecdotal occasion. My family and I were at an art show. We went to purchase some lunch. The two servers were black females. There was also some white people waiting in line. We were first in line. Who do you think they served first? The white folk! My brother in law, said politely that we had been in line first. The woman ignored him and proceeded to serve the white people first. All the while with an obsequious demeanor, enough to tun ones stomach. When our turn came to be served, her whole demeanor changed. She became cold and efficient. I refused to buy food from this vendor, but my brother in law and sister were starving so bit the bullet and bought a sandwich and drink. My brother in law asked her why she served the others before us. She was unable to give any plausible response. It was obvious to me that she had, has a disdain for her fellow blacks. I do-not have to sit and observe her treatment of other blacks to come to this conclusion. As my brother in law said later, she has a slave mentality. He said other things that cant be reiterated here, however, not within her earshot. This happens frequently enough for me to notice this type of behaviour. The reason this stood out in my mind was because it was so blatant. As for the clown grinning up in the white womans face, in MerriMays situation, there was nothing to interpret or dissect, that man was a white behind kissing fool. MerriMay, I hope you didnt tip him!
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Mira on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:15:59 you dont see white males making music video referring to bitches & hos And? That doesnt mean they dont have the same mentality. Many white men see women as sluts anyway. Whether they make videos and lyrics about it is irrelevant.
J Cheers Herneith, What you say here establish my very point. When you go on to say, I have seen this on numerous occasions, but with both genders But it is not clear to me how can you say:
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:22:53
As for the clown grinning up in the white womans face, in MerriMays situation, there was nothing to interpret or dissect, that man was a white behind kissing Where is the evidence for this and how do we know it is not Black female hating the Black male stereotype, out of self-hatred for self??
Alan BStard M P Mira, i wont let you get away with that. The African male is well known for his beligerence and chauvanism a lot more than white males, well Anglo males. Spanish males can be a bit chauvanistic It is a constant theme on TV. There are freqwnt real live complaints about their attitude to women There sia problem here that black women complain about, so I wonder how wide spread it is
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:27:56
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abagond Alan BStard M P said: It is a constant theme on TV
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:37:28
And I am supposed to believe that the white men who make up most of the screen writers and news editors behind what you see on television are going to put black and white men in an equally fair light? You are using the racism of white men to prove that their racism is true. I see that I got to do a post on how The Color Purple made it all the way to Hollywood.
Natasha W on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:37:46 ^True, black males (American and non-American) can be very chauvinistic and downright misogynistic at times. But to say they are moreso than white males is just false, and only a person with a warped perspective would buy into that idea. Ever heard of Pick-Up Artist (PUA)? Who do you think founded and perpetuates this incredible bastion of misogny and sexism? You got it white males.
dani @ Herneith
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:38:10
Black people who internalized racism are not doing themselves any justice but setting themselves up for failure. What did she get in return? a big fat tip from those nice White people? I think not
Natasha W ^(To Alan)
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:38:12
dani Alan BStard M P,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:39:33
Have you heard of White male patriarchy capatilism? That effects us all
Alan BStard M P on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:47:16 Abagond. i am not referring to fiction, I refer to shows that talk about real life situations Natasha i cant speak for Spanish males or Italians, but Anglo males are pretty well behaved culturally. Please no individual examples, it means nothing Also stop using the term white, as it encompasses different races with different beliefs and cultures. Black refers here to negro one particular race
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Alan BStard M P dani, no, what is this patriarchy capitolism?
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:49:08
Mira Alan BStard M P,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:56:19
Also stop using the term white, as it encompasses different races with different beliefs and cultures. Black refers here to negro one particular race All races are cultural constructs and are not biological facts. So you can make them up whatever you want. Still, what is considered a race today is ALWAYS a mix of different cultures. Maybe to you all Africans are the same, but that is your problem, not their. By the way, what are different races within white race, if I may to ask?
Natasha W Alan,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 16:59:16
i cant speak for Spanish males or Italians, but Anglo males are pretty well behavedculturally. Please no individual examples, it means nothing I disagree that Anglo males are more well-behaved. My (very vast) experience tells me differently. Also stop using the term white, as it encompasses different races with different beliefs andcultures. Black refers here to negro one particular race No, I will continue to use the word white. Maybe you should tell those at Stormfront to stop using it. And white people created the construct of race, so it makes sense that they see whites as diverse and blacks as monolithic. I hardly think this is the case in reality.
Natasha W Mira,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:03:36
Still, what is considered a race today is ALWAYS a mix of different cultures. Right. Im not African-American, but I am black (at least to Americans). By the way, what are different races within white race, if I may to ask? Oh, dont get him started on that. I am not in the mood for Teutonic, Mediterranean crap being thrown around right now.
Alan BStard M P on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:11:24 Mira that is errant rubbish! Multicultural societies fail due to different racially and cultural groups clashing
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Race is biological, although their cultural oulook may change after a couple of generations living among a different people
Mira on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:12:12 Oh, dont get him started on that. I am not in the mood for Teutonic, Mediterranean crap being thrown around right now. Sorry! What is interesting here is that the descendants of peoples who the most civilized Europeans (Romans and Greeks) saw as barbarians- who more or less adapted their cultures in order to be civilized- are today seen as the most pure, intelligent, civilized, etc among Europeans- and NOT descendants of Greeks and Romans.
Alan BStard M P on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:14:56 natasha, you cant crawl out of this by using the name of a site I dont frequent. Get used to the fact people do disagree. I suppose you are whats called a Liberal in the U.S? You may not be in the mood for the various races, but you can hardly conduct this argument by lumoing in vastly different races and cultures into one description
Natasha W Race is biological This ones a goner.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:14:56
Mira Race is biological.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:15:18
No, its not. Trust me, many people tried to prove it as a biological fact and they all failed miserably. Multicultural societies fail due to different racially and cultural groups clashing What does this have anything to do with the discussion? All continents are mix of different cultures that sometimes clash.
Herneith on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:17:24 Where is the evidence for this and how do we know it is not Black female hating the Black male stereotype, out of self-hatred for self?? The evidence was blatant in that the woman served the white people first, and took a cold dismissive attitude towards my brother in law, who was with his wife, daughter, and sister in law(me). It was quite obvious to me that this woman had disdain, at least in this instance, towards her fellow blacks. As for stereotypes, we were at an art show! Perhaps she thought we shouldnt have been there? As
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for this womans self-hatred, I can only go by her behaviour which was blatant. As for MerriMay, what did she do to elicit this behaviour from this man? Did she say; Give me a fcking cup of coffee and a sandwich and be quick about it? I dont think so. This is the only reason that I could see this man treating her the way he did whilst shucking and jiving for the white woman. Perhaps it was he who has a negative stereotype of black women, hence his behaviour towards MerriMay.
Alan BStard M P Ancient Greeks and Romans civilized HAHA!
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:17:38
tacitus stated the barbarians were more civilzed than his own romans. They didnt throw people to the lions As for Greece, democracy was only for the political class
Natasha W Alan,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:20:20
natasha, you cant crawl out of this by using the name of a site I dont frequent. Crawl out of what? I was serious. Maybe if whites stopped perpetuating the idea of whiteness, it would no longer exist. So the onus is on them. Get used to the fact people do disagree. Seems like someone should take their own advice! I suppose you are whats called a Liberal in the U.S? No, actually. Depending on where I am Ive been called conservative, moderate, and liberal. Most self-identified liberals wouldnt call me a liberal. You may not be in the mood for the various races, but you can hardly conduct this argument by lumoing in vastly different races and cultures into one description Like you did by saying all blacks are Negroes?
Alan BStard M P on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:20:46 Natasha, if race is not biological what is it! The anthropologists in the universities around the world would disagree
Mira on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:22:30 Like it or not, the rest of the Europe took much of their culture and now claim it as their own.
Alan BStard M P Mira says race is biological.

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on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:24:23
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No, its not. Trust me, many people tried to prove it as a biological fact and they all failed miserably. i doubt that. Sounds like something from the Arts faculty Tell the doctors and the pharmaceutical companies developing genetics drugs for the various races that. Anyway back on topic. Why all this blaming the white man for your troubles
Mira Natasha, if race is not biological what is it! A cultural construct.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:25:02
The anthropologists in the universities around the world would disagree They do disagree on race being a biological fact. Unless youre talking about 19th century anthropologists. As far as I know, none of them is currently teachin in an university.
Mira on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:26:27 Anyway back on topic. Why all this blaming the white man for your troubles. The topic is not about white men, but white women. And no, I am not blaming the white man for my troubles.
Alan BStard M P ah yes you are correct, white women.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:28:52
i like all women. What is the problem with white gals. i dont subscribe to the allegedly typical scenario a white woman says something to a black woman and its racist
Natasha W Alan Natasha, if race is not biological what is it! You tell me!
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:31:17
The anthropologists in the universities around the world would disagree with the idea of race as a biological entity. I attended and still attend plenty of universities, not one anthropologist would ever make the assertions you are making here. Tell the doctors and the pharmaceutical companies developing genetics drugs for the various races that. Actually, they are developing these drugs based on geographical origin and susceptilities thereof. So,
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for example, an African-American is not the same as a West African which is not the same as a South African.
Herneith on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:32:06 you dont see white males making music video referring to bitches & hos They dont have to, they live and breath it in there every day life. Thats why they are the biggest consumers of rap. They can sit back and let someone else take the blame for saying these things. They can continue to carry on the pretense of being civilized while enjoying the vicarious thrills of this sort of name calling. It is a constant theme on TV. There are freqwnt real live I watch Bugs Bunny/Road Runner. I suppose I should believe that when an anvil falls on Wiley E Coyote, from a cliff, or if Wiley gets blown up by an Acme bomb, that he really can get up and walk away unscathed and intact. tacitus stated the barbarians were more civilzed than his own romans. Tacitus was having a bad day when he wrote that. Too bad he wasnt on television! i cant speak for Spanish males or Italians, but Anglo males are pretty well behaved culturally. Please no individual examples, it means nothing Thank God for small mercies!
Alan BStard M P lol:D where did you dig that one up?
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:32:58
Mira on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:33:24 i dont subscribe to the allegedly typical scenario a white woman says something to a black woman and its racist It depends on what she says, doesnt it?
biz on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:34:29 The Sapphire stereotype black women as mean, angry and disagreeable Seems like its not a stereotype, rather its a pretty good description.
Alan BStard M P there seems to be generalizing about white women being racist.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:35:57
plenty of whites, including women from the west in Africa trying to help blacks there
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I dont see any western raised blacks in Africa doing their bit
Natasha W on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:41:09 biz, I defenitely become mean, angry, and disagreeable when people make hasty generalizations.
Natasha W *definitely Alan, there seems to be generalizing about white women being racist.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:41:52
plenty of whites, including women from the west in Africa trying to help blacks there Coming to clean up the mess that white colonialism caused; how nice of them! I dont see any western raised blacks in Africa doing their bit Im confused as to who this refers to. Black Americans or Africans raised in America and other Western socities?
Herneith I dont see any western raised blacks in Africa doing their bit Thats because they arent on t.v.!
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:45:35
MerriMay J,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:47:53
Am really puzzled here, how you, without all the facts, can go on about stereotypes on my part. Im scratching my head over here. I hate black males? self hate? projection perhaps?? What other black female stereotypes are you going to throw my way next? dare I ask. * smh* You contradict yourself, for someone vying for my stance on stereotyping black males(Im not, but conveniently supports your point), the irony here seems lost on you, the fact is, you sir, are accusing me of something you seem to be engaging in. Goodness, any critiquing(sp?) of any black male(god forbid) which happens to validly support the topic at hand is instantly dismissed as hating black men or self hate. Both genders do engage in that type of behavior, but when you single out a member of your race(the only one in the room) for shoddy service, sorry, that speaks volumes! gotta rush..will respond more tmrw
Alan BStard M P on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 17:54:33 The British colonies faired well, What happened with the belgians and grogs you can ask them, but the British left blacks democracy and they buggered it up right royally
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There are whites from western nations helping blacks, but no blacks from western nations helping African blacks
Natasha W The British colonies faired well
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:00:06
Um yeah, this is false. I dont even need to go into details to explain why. There are whites from western nations helping blacks, but no blacks from western nations helping African blacks This is also false. Just because they arent advertised like those oh-so-philanthropic whites (Oprah would be an exception to this), doesnt mean they dont exist.
Natasha W MerriMay
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:01:08
Am really puzzled here, how you, without all the facts, can go on about stereotypes on my part. Im scratching my head over here. I hate black males? self hate? Thats what J does! You contradict yourself, for someone vying for my stance on stereotyping black males(Im not, but conveniently supports your point), the irony here seems lost on you, the fact is, you sir, are accusing me of something you seem to be engaging in. Right. If I were to compile all of Js comments on this topic and related topics, I could make a right good case of him stereotyping and hating black women. Goodness, any critiquing(sp?) of any black male(god forbid) which happens to validly support the topic at hand is instantly dismissed as hating black men or self hate. Basically. Amongst blacks, criticism of black men is automatically dismissed and the person chastised. Similarly to how whites dismiss racism and blame blacks.
biz on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:13:51 Natasha W biz, I defenitely become mean, angry, and disagreeable when people make hasty generalizations. _____________ Like the way the majority of this board makes hasty generalizations about all whites, be they men or women?
laromana on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:16:54 J says, Personally what I see here is individuals specifically females, who have a self-hate for being Black
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and that manifests itself in a hatred toward Black males. This is how the nature of oppression works, blame everything and everyone else but not the perpertrators. It is easier to direct that self-hate toward Black males because it is easier to be complicit with a White racism, and/or it is in fact harder to blame the racist society/White global supremacy. This may explain the reluctance of the women who a reluctant to take a stand against racism etc. Perhaps its because such a stand would in fact mean these individuals fighting against the things which they love. laromana says, J, Try to PAY ATTENTION to what I and other BW on this post have ACTUALLY written instead of DENYING and drawing IRRELEVANT, ABSURD conclusions about the FACTS in our discussion. My comments regarding the MISTREATMENT of BW by BM has NOTHING to do with BWs self hate and neither I/any other BW NEEDS a BMs APPROVAL to validate the ANTI-BW/RACIST experiences weve encountered from people of ALL RACES in our lives. It would be refreshing if you would exercise some INTELLECTUAL HONESTY about the topic at hand-WWs tears/how WWs tears promote White supremacy/White privilege.
Alan BStard M P natasha, what would you know about British colonial Africa?
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:17:19
Oh I see, its naughty white racists that stop black volunteers from being noticed LOL!
Natasha W biz,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:19:53
Like the way the majority of this board makes hasty generalizations about all whites, be they men or women? I knew that would be your comeback! Were going to be friends if you stick around. The adjective SOME is almost always said or at least implied. I dont do think ALL whites are racist, but I do think SOME are (abagonds views are not always the views of his commenters). However, I feel it is unnecessary to keep saying SOME (see how annoying it is?).
Natasha W Alan, natasha, what would you know about British colonial Africa?
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:22:34
Uh, my relatives who were born and raised there and my several visits there? What do you know?
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Oh I see, its naughty white racists that stop black volunteers from being noticed Its not that Whites just tend to not pay much attention to the good that blacks do (the same could be said about blacks in relation to whites).
Alan BStard M P on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:33:43 so are you old enough to have lived under british rule? Or have you been to Africa to see the mess they locals made of it i come from a nation of britiah origins, as seen in its flag its people. culture and outlook and our relationship with Africa the British colonies that is. I remember the independence of Rhodesia ( bad move ) and the end of aparthied in South Africa ( another bad move in you believe comments by some blacks ) The locals destroyed Rhodesia,as it was then. mandela ruined SA, it;s abasket case with a crook in charge now Since the British left, theyve gone downhill
biz Natasha,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:36:29
What do you think have been hip hops contributions to race/sex relations? And ae they positive or negative? I would appreciate honest input on this that doesnt come from a white male. Thanks.
J Herneith, I was not speaking about your example. I was speaking with Merrimay
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:41:00
It could well be that his behaviour toward Merrimay was motivated by his hatred of Black women, and his love for all things White. I am asking for the evidence that confirm that his behaviour was deliberately designed to put down a Black woman and in essence ALL Black womEn in favour of a White woman and hence all White womEn. From the words which were typed on this screen before us. You cannot reach that conclusion.
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J Natasha W, Forgive me here, what is that I do??
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:44:40
J Cheers Laromana,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:52:06
Personally I think there is a diametric correlation between racial consciousness and understanding when and where to provide constructive criticism, in this instance regarding Black males and by the way NOT all Black males either. And conversely, also the same with regard to womens role vis-a-vis feminism, as illustrated by Natasha W on the other thread. Also there is a difference between understanding how all the factors of race, class and sex, unfolds in a White supremacy system and blaming the victim syndrome. Herein is where our difference lies, as far as I am concerned.
Alan BStard M P what white supremacy? What are you all victims of?
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 18:56:26
Natasha W biz,
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 19:01:23
What do you think have been hip hops contributions to race/sex relations? And ae they positive or negative? I would appreciate honest input on this that doesnt come from a white male. Thanks. Im not an expert on hip-hop, sorry. My overall impression of it isnt very high, but I dont really listen to it, save a few artists.
Natasha W Alan, so are you old enough to have lived under british rule?
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 19:10:54
I have immediate relatives that lived under British rule. And I have immediate relatives who are British. I was born and raised in the U.S., I guess you could call that living under British rule. Or have you been to Africa to see the mess they locals made of it Theyve only made as much a mess as colonialism has.
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i come from a nation of britiah origins I couldve guessed that.
J Herneith, And here is Merrimays comment
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 19:15:34
Im reminded of an incident just yesterday, on my lunchbreak. Got a quick sandwich and coffee. Theres a white woman in front of me, a black man at the counter taking orders. After exchanging some cheerful banter with this lady, my turn comes up and its all he could do to give me friendly service and damn near threw my money at me. THERE WAS THAT RESENTMENT IM INCREASINGLY FEELING WITH YOUNG BLACK MALES White female professional is only natural, service with a smile, but hell be damned if hell give a black female counterpart the same courtesy. And again how do we know whether this same attitude would not have been applied to Black males and an elderly one also (since we are told its a young male employee)?? Or is his behaviour exclusively reserved for Black women only??
Color O Luv @J
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 19:35:20
I think you hit the nail on the head with your analysis. I would simply like to add that we are all guilty of some form of prejudice. One bad experience here, one bad person there, one two three etc Its what is called False Cause Fallacy. Ex: Everytime I have a flat tire, its raining; therefore, I shouldnt drive my car if it is going to rain because inevitably Ill get a flat tire. This may be an oversimplification, but it can be applied to almost any situation. Do you sense the hypocrisy here or is it me? Dont judge me on the color of my skin, but by the content of my character. But, in this case if youre a black male, then the content of your character must have a correlation to the color of your skin; therfore. False Cause Fallacy http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/cause.html
Color O Luv on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 19:36:37 @ J by the way, Im watching Brasil play N. Korea in the World Cup right now and Im thoroughly disappointed. I dont expect an answer from you until the game is over. Double C H E E R S to you ! ! !
J Me too ColorofLuv.
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on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 19:39:44
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I will be honest Socrates is right when he critiqued Dungas style. Dunga is very effective, but he has taken the flair from the Brazilian side, like 1970 and 1982 teams, the latter causing personal trauma and heartache in Brazil. However, along with the Dutch 1974 team, Brazil 1982 is the best side never to have won the tournament
J There you go 1-0 lucky though
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 19:41:02
J Yes your analysis is spot on Colorof Luv. I would also add that you could apply the term self-fulfilling prophesy.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 19:44:46
And strangely enough this is how ALL stereotypes including the racial ones work in the real world. Back to the terrible game ha ha ha
laromana Color O Luv says, @J
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 20:06:43
I think you hit the nail on the head with your analysis. I would simply like to add that we are all guilty of some form of prejudice. One bad experience here, one bad person there, one two three etc Its what is called False Cause Fallacy. Ex: Everytime I have a flat tire, its raining; therefore, I shouldnt drive my car if it is going to rain because inevitably Ill get a flat tire. This may be an oversimplification, but it can be applied to almost any situation. Do you sense the hypocrisy here or is it me? Dont judge me on the color of my skin, but by the content of my character. But, in this case if youre a black male, then the content of your character must have a correlation to the color of your skin; therfore. False Cause Fallacy http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/cause.html laromana says, Color O Luv, if the experiences of MISTREATMENT/DISRESPECT from BM that I/other BW have shared were ISOLATED incidences that had NOTHING to do with the OPENLY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE that MANY BW direct at BW, I could agree with your content of character vs. color of skin analysis, but this is DEFINITELY NOT the case. Dont let J DECEIVE you about the TRUE nature of the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that is INCREASINGLY behind the attitudes/attitudes of MANY BM towards BW.
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J 2-1 mate And dont let me deceive you either ha ha ha ha
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 20:14:54
Color O Luv @ Laromana
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 20:47:40
I cant speak for J, but from my personal perspective, Id say there are a lot of judgements made by ALL individuals regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, etc I find the same flaw on all fronts stereotyping groups or individuals based on any given categorization. As human beings, we are all guilty of this behavior as it is human nature. It is unfortunate that the hypocrisy often times is not recognized when one is looking in the mirror. (analogy: I cant see the forest. Why? Theres too many trees in the way.) lol I think you and J have a lot more in common than not. In particular on this subject. You want respect, he wants respect. You feel victimized as a BW by BM. He feels victimized as a BM by BW. Ill leave it there. Forgive me if Im overstepping my boundaries, but I simply wanted to say something about the irony in the earlier statement. That is all. If I have misunderstood, my apologies. As J says, CHEERS!!!
Color O Luv on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 20:52:21 @ J I guess I can go for 2-1 Brazil over N. Korea. Probably should have been more like 4-1 !!! Gotta grab a beer afterwork now to celebrate. Cheers & double CHEERS
laromana on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 21:06:28 Color O Luv, You feel victimized as a BW by BM. He feels victimized as a BM by BW. Ill leave it there. Forgive me if Im overstepping my boundaries, but I simply wanted to say something about the irony in the earlier statement. That is all. If I have misunderstood, my apologies. As J says, CHEERS!!! laromana says, Color O Luv, I appreciate your attempt at trying to understand the BW/BM dynamic and the cultural problems that exist. The comments Ive made regarding the DISRESPECT/MISTREATMENT of BW by BM are not intended to show BW as victims but to demonstrate the UNIQUE FACTS regarding the position of BW when it comes to dealing with ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE from persons of ALL RACES from the outside culture (American media/society) and from the so called BC where MOST BM CHOOSE NOT to DEFEND the HONOR/DIGNITY of BW against ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE. I also wanted to point out the FACT that MOST BM are the ONLY group of men who CHOOSES to ATTACK the women that most resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS/SISTERS.
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I dont know of ANY NON-BM who do this. Again, stating FACTS about the circumstances of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE to which BW are subjected isnt the same as looking for victim status or making baseless judegement/stereotyping groups or individuals.
Color O Luv on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 21:17:52 Point taken Laromana. Thanks for the clarification on your perspective. I appreciate it.
Herneith on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 21:21:46 I am asking for the evidence that confirm that his behaviour was deliberately designed to put down a Black woman and in essence ALL Black womEn in favour of a White woman and hence all White womEn. If you want evidence, call Perry Mason. Two customers come in to get something to eat. One is treated as if her s**t dont stink. One is treated as a piece of s(*t. One is black the other white. The white one is given the ol shuck and jive routine. The black one is treated like trash. What would one infers from this? 1) That in the very least, the man was an ignorant sob. 2) He has a problem with his fellow blacks or in particular black women as his behaviour illustrates. From what I gather, MerriMay went in there to simply get lunch and was given the kerchief head treatment. He wouldnt have dared done that to a white women to start, else he would be out pounding the pavement. I have experienced similar situations when I was given similar treatment so I can relate to and understand MerriMays situation. As I said before, this is a common occurrence, not one off situations. Taken in their totality, there is some credence. Self hatred at its best, and it wasnt on MerriMays part. MerriMay just went in for a sandwich.
J on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 21:28:52 I am sorry Herneith I can only conclude you are agreeing with Merrimay on the basis of camaraderie rather than the factual evidence before us excuse the Perry Mason pun Something which you are more than entitled to do, but if this in essence is what you are doing, then it serves no purpose having a dialogue because we are merely speaking about how we wish things to be in your mind vis-a-vis the objective world.
Aiyo
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 21:46:36
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This video showstwo black women getting abused by the police, what was their crime Jaywalking didnt know that was a arrestable offence the pig even punches one of them in the face.
Herneith You are right, it serves no purpose.
on Tue 15 Jun 2010 at 22:00:17
Oyan So ultimately, what is being said, and/or absolute?:
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 01:47:40
1. that ww get better treatment in the global village, because they are white/euro 2. that blk women get less decent treatment in the global village, because they are black 3. that society, signs off on this/complicit, even black men 4. nothing can be/or is going to change 5. acknowledging it, does what? I dont think anyone can deny that the treatment (generally) white females receive in the US/worlwide represents white privilege/supremacy, and that wwt is a mechanism to ensure that everyone understands their role in this dynamic
J Oyan,
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 02:17:05
I hope you do not mind but as I read your comments the following thoughts came to my mind especially with regard to revolutionary/political thought. Its already agreed the double oppression of Black women with regard to sex and race. And some Black women have a triple burden of belonging to a lower social class (sex/race/class) There will be some Black women as well as Black men who will benefit from the patriarchial system.
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There will even be some women from all races (including Black females) who will uphold and support the system either complicitly or inadvertently by not doing anything to challenge the system (point 4). By the way what is wwt?? Cheers!!
Oyan on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 03:05:46 There will even be some women from all races (including Black females) who will uphold and support the system either complicitly or inadvertently by not doing anything to challenge the system (point 4). By the way what is wwt?? @ J, wwt= white woman tears. When I have been confronted with this phenomenon, it sends the message that I am violating the code of white supremacy, with regards this caucasian or even for that matter, lighter skinned woman; Ive had white skinned latin females, cry on me too, yikes! If white males feel that the social order is being disturbed, they can be directly confrontational, or violent in the case of police, etc., with white females, depending on their status in a given environment and the situation, different strategies are employed, ie. crying, hand wringing, snarky comments, reporting you to proper authorities, someone who can arrest you/fire you, challenge you or change the rules in their favor etc.
AmIHigh? on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 03:20:57 In response to Miras comment: It is your fault- not others, princess- if they dont play by these rules, if they dont cover their true feelings under the shell of smiling and politeness. From your profile i gather that youre a white woman, im also a white woman and what i wanna say is that your self-hatred towards white women is unnecessary compassion, anti-racism and understantding others is not about self-hate. I dont kno what things are like where u live, but where i live white women are a easily targetted minority and no f*cker misses an opportunity to remind me (& any other white girl) about it mfs like that are weak racist woman-beaters and need to be caught, shamed & punished because no other form of racism is acceptable or forgivable so why should discrimination of white girls be any different? U dont need to hate yourself to spread love, just remember that next time u wanna criticise urself white women shouldnt be hatin anybody or themselves to keep other people happy equal rights apply to us too and we should use them when the need arises especially when self-righteous pricks start trying to guilt-trip us into doin sh*t, cus government f*ck-ups of centuries gone by wont be solved by creating racial stereotypes that try to control women, its not like these people will pop out a baby, cut the cord and ask it how to solve the current warfare state problems make the misguided people see straight, maybe the world would be a lilbit better place if they point their arrows the right way. PEACE, LOVE and sunshine x
laromana Color O Luv,
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 03:46:06
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Youre welcome and thanks for understanding.
Alan BStard M P SW6, it wasnt just blacks that were lynched, whites too
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 07:31:32
leigh204 on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 08:59:51 Here we go again. The old it happened to white, too derailing techniqute.
J Cheers Oyan, Heres another thought that just popped in my mind
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 09:32:34
To what effect does wwt impact on Black males specifically, because the way the patriarchal system is designed, it is NOT going to change it raison detre because of the shedding off a few tears??
Alan BStard M P on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 09:50:17 But it did happen to both. Leigh. Whatsmore, the allegations made against the accised were often true. Trouble was, it wasnt proper trial by judge and jury I find the thing repugnant from the point iof view that I am anti death penalty But make no mistake, a lot of these men that were lynched committed the crime. Sadly there may have been a few innocent victims of the lynch mob If there was no death penalty, that wouldnt happen
abagond Alan:
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 10:45:04
The wrongness of lynching goes way beyond the lack of due process and the killing of innocents: It was used as a weapon of terror to keep blacks in their place.
Mira AmIHigh?,
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 13:51:57
Yes, I am a white woman, and no, I dont hate myself or white women. In case you didnt notice, I was not talking about all white women- just the ones who fit the profile of crying when offended and princesses who are taught that being polite and nice is the most important thing, not the truth, true feelings and honesty. Obviously, there are many white women who dont fit that profilejust like there are many who do. I dont know if you recognized yourself in it (hope not), but frankly, I dont have much of a group loyalty to defend a white woman just because I am also a white woman. I am one of those people who try their best to stay away from the collective identities (which is not always possible). Still, I must say I do see women as my own group- but all women, regardless of
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their race. I am aware of the fact that black women, or Asian women might see things differently, which is ok- identities are always subjective anyway- but to me, a white woman is not any more or less a member of my group than a black or another non-white woman. So until I start talking trash about women in general its not really possible to say Im in a self-hate mood. PS- I live in an whole white country, so race is not really an issue here.
Alan BStard M P on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 13:56:34 Ah! Mira, that is the trouble with us white espeically Anglos. We dont have the group loyalty as others have. Cultural glue is a way to describe it That is what is used against us, as these groups are less tolerant
islandgirl Mira, Very well put and appreciated!
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 13:57:51
Mira Alan, I am not Anglo.
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 13:59:22
Mira Thanks islandgirl!
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 14:00:57
Seriously, I am re-reading my first message and I dont find any place where I wrote ALL white women
Alan BStard M P apologies Mira
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 14:13:10
Mira No prob.
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 14:38:59
Oyan abagond Alan:
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 20:24:20
The wrongness of lynching goes way beyond the lack of due process and the killing of innocents: It was used as a weapon of terror to keep blacks in their place. I remember reading where these white males, probably law enforcement, would drive through black
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neighborhoods with a make-shift electric chair in the back of a pick-up to intimidate and terrorize the people. Can you imagine? They would, stop random black people, mainly males and ask them questions, while smiling at the chair in the truck bed.
MerriMay Little late here..but
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 22:18:29
Herneith, Natasha and Laromana I completely agree, there is too much guarding self interests here to have any more debate on it. A pity the unfounded self -hate accusation never had any meaningful explanation. I didnt get that particular memo!lol
Menelik Charles Alan BStard MP said:
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 22:47:21
Ah! That is the trouble with us white espeically Anglos. We dont have the group loyalty as others have. Cultural glue is a way to describe it. Menelik replies: the group loyalty you claim whites lack is all-too present on a global scale. I dont expect that youd recognise it not least the harm it causes to developing nations, but it comes in the form of the World Bank, the IMF, the UN and countless NGOs, supporting corrupt governments, undermining national sovereignty, and compelling 3rd world nations to pay astonishing interest rates rather than investing in social infrastructures. This is but one aspect of the white supremacy others allude to, and which is the very glue maintaining white standards of living in their home nations, and white privilege throughout the world. Again, I dont expect you to acknowledge this line of thinking since whites at a deep level are self-perceived victims insofar as they are born whiteprivileged, yes, but white all the same. Herein lies the problem, folks! Menelik Charles London England
Jeri Mira
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 22:47:57
I appreciate your opinions on racism. You strike me as an intelligent person who is concerned with the truth. You also strike me as someone who is concerned with other peoples perspective on life, not just your own. It is a pity more people arent like that! Dont worry about the self hatred comments. Most of us on this website know where you are coming from!
leigh204 @Jeri:
on Wed 16 Jun 2010 at 22:57:39
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Co-sign! Miras comments are always well thought out and articulate. She doesnt have to explain herself.
truth on Sun 20 Jun 2010 at 20:01:26 You forgot to mention that those two had robbed and murdered a couple of whites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Shipp_and_Abram_Smith I dont feel sorry for them at all, nor do I find the actions of the white women there reprehensible in the least.
JuJuBe on Sun 20 Jun 2010 at 20:39:11 truth- they were ACCUSED of rape and murder that does not make it true! Ever hear of innocent until proven guilty?? And, since we all know that white people CONSTANTLY murdered and raped Black men and women for hundreds of years, why were 99% of THEM not held responsible in any way, shape or form?? Could you imagine the outrage if a Black crowd lynched two white men for ANY crime??? EVEN if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the white men were innocent???
jade @jujube don t bother; cant argue with closed minds.
on Sun 20 Jun 2010 at 20:46:25
Ako This comes to mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qr7cYmtO9Y Notice the title of the video as well? Whoopi Goldberg makes Elizabeth Hasselbeck cry. Sapphire vs Pure White Woman. *hmmm Listen to the poll at the end as well.
on Mon 21 Jun 2010 at 03:32:15
Alan BStard M P on Mon 21 Jun 2010 at 20:54:38 Menelik. I certainly agree with you interms of the world bank , IMF etc. They are rogues and should be mabe banned organizations in my view. The third world gets no favours from tisd lot Although the white: is still to general a Description. People like Domoinc Strauss Kahn and james Wolfensohn arent exactly yer standard white chaps
Alan BStard M P
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Leigh said Co-sign! Miras comments are always well thought out and articulate. She doesnt have to explain herself. No but maybe you should Leigh
Alan BStard M P JuJu
on Mon 21 Jun 2010 at 20:58:51
And, since we all know that white people CONSTANTLY murdered and raped Black men and women for hundreds of years, Oh really. Did they really do this?
King on Mon 21 Jun 2010 at 21:17:49 You would probably have to figure in the wars waged for colonization and then the uneven battles used to quell the various uprisings, but I suppose thats probably accurate. Of course, it wasnt JUST Black people.
Tyrone Greetings Abagond:
on Tue 22 Jun 2010 at 16:28:08
Im gonna keep it short and to the point. Whitewomen dont love whitemen, and whitemen dont love whitewomen!!!
Sanju on Sun 4 Jul 2010 at 07:16:46 The case of Emmett Till is a perfect example of the hideous White Womens Tears.
Noli Irritare Leones Blog Archive Accusations of Racism, True on Fri 23 Jul 2010 at 15:35:55 and False [...] and so people are rightly offended if the charge is false. A part of me feels the same way. I can dissolve into tears, as much as anyone else, on those occasions that someone has suggested Ive done something [...]
Mira I didnt catch this earlier, J. I must say I really dislike it:
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 14:33:19
The problem here is that most Black men, and I presume we are referring to the US, etc do NOThave the wherewithal to even stand up for their own honour, and/or their community, let alone Black women. As if black women are not equal members of black community Or is there a specifically black male
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community that I dont know about (but black women should fight to protect it even if they are not allowed to be its members).
Natasha W on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 14:54:54 I cosign Mira. But there is a separate black male community. At least online.
J on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:02:29 Personally, I am not in the least surprised you disliked the comments. Since you did not appear to understand what I am saying not for the first time either Therefore I will clarify my position, once again. I am not for one where men stand up to protect women per se. This is merely a continuation of women are weaker and hence inferior vis-a-vis men. And it gives men the chance to oppress women, if they are dependent upon their men for protection. If men have to stand up to protect women it is because the society has been constructed that way, to keep females dependent. As I said to another female poster, the society need not be constructed this way and it can be constructed in a different way. Notwithstanding, I remember speaking to what might be called a miltant Black women earlier this week, who took the time to remind me that in African cultures you will see a tradition where the women have also been warriors and fought on the battlefield beside their men. Her implication even though she never outrightly said it, the woman can look after themselves to a large degree. Please let me know what you think of these recent comments?? Cheers
Mira on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:05:27 Then said community has to explain why members of another community (black women) should fight for it. Why, if they are not allowed to be members, if they are not seen as people who belong there? Or should they just support them and fight for them, but are not truly and equally accepted into it? Now, I hope this isnt really the way it is (in reality).
Mira J,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:10:17
Unfortunately, my comment regarding this was deleted in another thread. So Ill try to repeat
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it. Women are not weak, delicate beings that cant take care of themselves. We dont really need male protection. However, if a man is ready to protect a white woman, he should be equally ready to do the same for a woman of another race. Simple as that. Also, its not really about protection. Its about respect. Respect as a human being and a support. We (women) all like and appreciate this. If a man is not ready to do it, hes not worth our time. And if a man is ready to do that for a white woman, but not for a black woman (or a woman of another race) then its racist.
Natasha W on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:10:44 I am not for one where men stand up to protect women per se. This is merely a continuation of women are weaker and hence inferior vis-a-vis men. But you ARE for black women standing up for black men. Like I said before: ludicrous.
Mira on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:15:08 I understand that its sometimes difficult for a modern (or a post-modern ) man to understand this. Women whine all the time, dont they? They want attention, they want you to be there, but they dont want you to help them or treat them as weaker than you. Oh, what a mess! Thats why I said RESPECT and SUPPORT rather than a protection. I think its clear what Im trying to say. (Is it?)
J Mira,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:34:51
It was the Black women here who was suggesting that they need protecting. At times when speaking to you with issues on race it can be very confusing and I do not think your English has anything to do with it either.
Mira on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:37:58 At times when speaking to you with issues on race it can be very confusing Explain. Also, said woman might want men to protect her- we are all different. She has a full right to want whatever she wants. Not to mention that if men want to protect white women they should want to do the same for black women. Why is that so difficult to understand?
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Natasha W J, Is that post above your attempt at ad hominem? Fail.
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:41:35
All I would like to know is why the hypocrisy? Why should black women defend black men, but black men are not obligated to defend black women? And why do you defend white women while dumping on white men?
J Mira, Please forgive my impatience,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:41:44
Do you not understand if you are speaking of the total liberation of women. Then if women are dependent on men for protection. It in essence means they can never be totally liberated. I am not speaking off the micro level of love relationship. I am speaking the whole gamut of women to men and women to society as a whole.
Mira J,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:42:42
I think youre confusing personal level with collective identity. Many people do that. As a member of one group, its expectable for you (general you) to work for its interests and to help it. But that should not be confused with a personal level. So if youre black its expectable for you to support black causes. But it has nothing to do with your personal level: who you chose to date or marry, for example. So why is such a shocking thing for you to understand a black woman who is in a relationship with a white man (personal level) can still respect black community and support it? Similarly, a white supremacist is, unfortunately, not any less racist if he falls in love and start a relationship with a black woman.
Mira on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:44:31 Do you not understand if you are speaking of the total liberation of women. Then if women are dependent on men for protection. It in essence means they can neverbe totally liberated. Yes, and thats why I choose not to use word protection but respect and support. Its not the same.
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And if youre against protecting women, you should clearly state youre against it regardless of a womans race.
J Mira, With regard to:
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 15:57:32
Yes, and thats why I choose not to use word protection but respect and support. Its not the same. And if youre against protecting women, you should clearly state youre against it regardless of a womans race. I have to say you live in a very rosy world. Do you seriously believe that if respect and protection were afforded to women, or whatever terms you want to use. Then women will NOT be oppressed?? You seem to have a similar view with respect to and regard to race which is very confusing, to say the least.
J Mira,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 16:06:21
Please do not tell me that I am confusing matters when you do not even understand many race issues yourself. You live in a White country and you now want to tell me about racism Here I end my converstaion with you.
Mira on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 16:08:15 Do you seriously belive that if respect and protection were afforded to women, or whatever terms you want to use. Then women will NOT be oppressed?? These things are not mutually exclusive. The oppression of women has many faces and its not easy to define it with a few terms. Still, I do believe it would be much better if men learn to treat women as fully human. Are respect and support so difficult to give? Are they easier to give to white women than to black women? To men than to women? And you still didnt explain what is so confusing about my view on race.
Mira on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 16:12:03 Please do not tell me that I am confusing matters when you do not even understand many race issues yourself. I asked you to tell me what you find confusing about my views.
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You live in a White country and you now want to tell me about racism I live in a Balkan country that is in no shape or form similar to what a western country is. That is something YOU fail to recognize, just like you are quick to point at my privilege but are completely blind and refuse to talk about YOUR privilege. That being said, why cant I talk about racism? Because Im white? What, whites are not allowed to talk about it?
laromana on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 17:09:19 Mira says, Women are not weak, delicate beings that cant take care of themselves. We dont really need male protection. However, if a man is ready to protect a white woman, he should be equally ready to do the same for a woman of another race. Simple as that. Also, its not really about protection. Its about respect. Respect as a human being and a support. We (women) all like and appreciate this. If a man is not ready to do it, hes not worth our time. And if a man is ready to do that for a white woman, but not for a black woman (or a woman of another race) then its racist. laromana says, Mira, your above comments are EXCELLENT, especially as they relate to the current situation BW are facing as the MOST ATTACKED/LEAST RESPECTED/SUPPORTED WOMEN on the planet.
J on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 17:59:11 This is my last comments Abagond. After much reflection I think this needs to be said With regard to: But you ARE for black women standing up for black men. Like I said before: ludicrous. Let us assume in this instance I am a Black female What is ludicrous about those Black women who decide to stand up and by their male counterparts in the US?? This is a patronising statement and it somewhat bespeaks of what I have been suggested Finally if Natasha W. wants my comments deleted which were a sincere observation (ie psychoanalysing). Then I do not mind in the least if you should do so. At least it will bring about a peace of mind on her part. Though as I said previously, if one is prepared to give it out on a medium like this. Then one should be equally prepared to receive constructive critisms, insights etc. Far too often on this blog, I see the former.
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Be that as it may, its your choice Abagond. Cheers
J Mira,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 18:04:29
Since you were on this blog before me. I have tried not to rock the boat, and have held back on my opinions regarding you, by your words on this blog. Personally I see you as one of those Whites, who think they can come around Black people and then start dictating and telling Blacks what is right from wrong. You are not the first, and you will you not be the last. It happens in real life and it happens also on the internet In this respect you are Thads equivalent, but the female version. In a kind of paradoxical way, I am not sure why this has not been levelled against you previously. Perhaps it is something to do with the post of White Women Tears.
Mira @J
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 19:47:08
Since you were on this blog before me. I have tried not to rock the boat, and have held back on my opinions regarding you, by your words on this blog. Oh, Im a big girl. Im sure I can handle it. Personally I see you as one of those Whites, who think they can come around Black people and then start dictating and telling Blacks what is right from wrong. I tend to lecture people here only on two things, things I know a lot about: former Yugoslavia and Archaeology. If somebody, for example, you, says something that shows complete lack of knowledge in one of those subjects of course Ill correct you. Just like Natasha, for example, corrected me on various things concerning biology. But I never lectured anybody here on race, racism, race relations. I am here to learn. In a kind of paradoxical way, I am not sure why this has not been levelled against you previously. Perhaps it is something to do with the post of White Women Tears. Are you saying thats because Im a white female so everybody here give me a pass? But wait That would include you too, J. You didnt say anything till now. Is that because Im a white female? Also, please notice those angry black women who hate white women didnt attack me either. So could it be that perhaps I dont know? Others dont share your opinion? PS-And you still didnt answer my question. Typing a comment along the lines of youre white and
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evil is not the answer.
Natasha W on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 19:49:49 Im still waiting for abagond to delete these comments. I wonder what he is waiting for.
Mira on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 19:52:03 Also, its not that people always agree with me here or that nobody corrects me about anything. Ive been called out on stuff I wrote when people thought it was crap. Its how it goes in discussions.
Thaddeus on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:22:11 Let me ask you a sincere question, J: can ANY white person disagree with you about anything at all without you claiming that they are dictating to you? Is such a thing possible?
J Thad, And what brought you out of the woodworks??
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:34:05
Personally as a White person there is a lot that you do not know or understand about racism even your own racism
King Nobody understands everything about racism.
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:35:03
Natasha W on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:37:58 J just cant argue without resorting to ad hominems. I mean, we all do it, but it seems he cant make an argument without it.
JuJuBe on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:38:29 Mira: As white women, it is NOT our place to comment on relations between Black men and women. Attempt to fight racism, yes, because that is an issue for ALL of society. But what goes on between Black men and Black women, we honestly do not need to comment on. It is unproductive and patronizing. And do you realize what an offensive stereotype angry black women who hate white women is??? I have noticed time and time again white women who CLAIM to be anti-racist throw the angry Black woman epithet around as soon as someone disagrees with them. That whole idea of the angry Black woman attacking white woman based on jealousy shit is PLAYED OUT. Instead of getting defensive when someone disagrees with you, look inside yourself and see what you could have done better.
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J Mira,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:41:24
What I find interesting is that you live in aWhite country with no Blacks by your own admission. So therefore you should not be familiar with those racist attitudes that one finds in a racist society. Or so one would expect. However, you have the same racist attitudes as those born and raised within a racist society. I know you are keen to deny White people are evil, being White yourself. Irrespective of whether Whites are evil or not?? What cannot be denied is how pervasive White racist/Supremacy attitude is prevalent and you are a prime example in this instance.
Thaddeus on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:44:40 Personally as a White person there is a lot that you do not know or understand about racism even your own racism Oh, I agree, J. But theres a lot that you dont know about racism as well, even your own racism. And this is where you and me are different. I know that Im basically ignorant: you seem to think that your life gives you all the tools you need to adequately understand the world. I mistruct my prejudices: you wallow in yours. In short, you think color and identity give one a free ride to knowledge when they quite provably dont. Because of this, youll accept theories simply because they jibe with your prejudices or make you feel good. You think your intuition trumps rationality. And this tendency makes you go haring off into la-la land where you end up (repeatedly) doing things like claiming Aryanists are afro-centric, or citing unabashed white supremacists as authorities on race and biology.
abagond Natasha & J:
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:44:56
I deleted some of your comments. They were ad hominems and personal remarks. If I cut too little or unfairly cut too much then let me know privately by email.
Thaddeus on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:46:16 However, you have the same racist attitudes as those born and raised within a racist society. Disagreeing with J is ipso fato evidence of belief in white supremacy, Mira, so watch it. Youll be put on his list of those who need to be sent to The Wall when the revolution comes for the peoples benefit.
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J Abagond,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:50:15
I might be stating the obvious. There was no ad homenims on my part. I am aware you have a difficult task, but sometimes you have to call things as they are according to the facts, irrespective who gets annoyed. All what was stated by Natasha W. is what she wrote here herself her own admission -. I just merely repeated them
J Thad, Any Black person who challenges your White heritage is a racist or a fascist or an Aryan and the list goes on forever
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:53:01
Natasha W JuJuBe,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 20:57:57
Mira: As white women, it is NOT our place to comment on relations between Black men and women. Attempt to fight racism, yes, because that is an issue for ALL of society. But what goes on between Black men and Black women, we honestly do not need to comment on. It is unproductive and patronizing. And do you realize what an offensive stereotype angry black women who hate white women is??? I have noticed time and time again white women who CLAIM to be anti-racist throw the angry Black woman epithet around as soon as someone disagrees with them. That whole idea of the angry Black woman attacking white woman based on jealousy shit is PLAYED OUT. Instead of getting defensive when someone disagrees with you, look inside yourself and see what you could have done better. I think you are jumping to conclusions. Mira only brought up that stereotype because J, using ad hominem, accused me of being jealous of white women. And I dont there is anything wrong with a white person, man or woman, commenting on racism.
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abagond JuJube:
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:05:59
the angry Black woman attacking white woman based on jealousy shit is PLAYED OUT. As Natasha said, it was J who brought that up. The comments were deleted as an ad hominem.
JuJuBe on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:15:07 My apologies then I did not see the origin of the comment. but the rest of what I said still stands, IMHO. J- as I said, commenting on racism is one thing, but commenting on relations within the Black community is totally different.
J Abagond,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:17:22
Forgive me where did I bring about the angry black woman stereotype. I think you are pushing things beyond the absurd now, irrespective of whether this blog is yours or not unless you can show me otherwise Cheers
J Cheers Ju Ju Be, I am a Black male
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:19:55
JuJuBe on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:24:39 Oops I meant to direct that as a response to Natasha W, not J, my bad To clarify my intended response was: Natasha W.. as I said, commenting on racism is one thing, but commenting on relations within the Black community is totally different. in response to Natasha W. said And I dont there is anything wrong with a white person, man or woman, commenting on racism. Sorry bout the confusion!
JuJuBe on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:28:17 Ugggh.. I am NOT getting this right at all!!! My original comment was to Mira. basically that as white women we have no business commenting on the relations within the Black community.
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THEN Natasha W. said And I dont there is anything wrong with a white person, man or woman, commenting on racism. To which I responded: as I said, commenting on racism is one thing, but commenting on relations within the Black community is totally different. I hope THAT clarifies everything for real this time!!!
Natasha W on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:35:18 JuJuBe, Mira has never made any comments about the relations between black men and black women. She inquires and asks questions, and points out inconsistencies, yes, but that is different from saying what is wrong/right or telling others what to do. She has never done that. That was another attempt by J to mischaracterize a person and their postions.
abagond J said: Abagond,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:36:34
Forgive me where did I bring about the angry black woman stereotype. I think you are pushing things beyond the absurd now, irrespective of whether this blog is yours or not unless you can show me otherwise Cheers I emailed you privately about this.
Natasha W on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:40:21 Also, Mira is an invaluable commenter here. I personally find many of her comments more insightful than some of the black commenters here. So I hope she doesnt feel discouraged from commenting. She has every right to.
JuJuBe on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:41:55 Natasha I was referring to Miras comments about the perceptions that Black men give white women a pass while not doing the same for Black women, which IMO is commenting on relations between Black men and women, but hey, I could be wrong.
JuJuBe on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:43:30 My intention was not to dissuade anyone from posting, simply to put forth my own opinion. I hope it was not perceived otherwise!
J on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:44:21 Abagond this not fair, you put out the suggestion that I am endorsing the angry black woman stereotype in the public domain, which is NOT true.
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However, you are willing to delete observations which is the truth about a commentator. You should be prepared to maintain logical consistency, if you are prepared to make that staement about me in public. Then you should also do so in public mutatis mutandis Irrespective of how difficult it may be maintaining this blog. Sorry but that is the truth.
Natasha W on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:45:54 I remember the comment. And she wasnt making that observation herself or saying that was the case, she was giving possible reasons as to why it might be the case, after it had already been mentioned (by black commenters).
J on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 21:46:34 Edit: Then you should also be prepared to do the same in public viz. to answer my question and show where I have been using the stereotype mutatis mutandis. This is what is known also as equanimity
abagond J:
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 22:12:10
You are asking me to in effect undelete a comment so I can defend my decision for deleting it. Does that make sense? If you disagree you talk to me in private about it.
J Cheers Abagond!
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 22:20:02
Then my position in regard to what you say, is to bring what is said privately, out into the open. So we can see the fallacy being applied and used for the angry black women stereotype
Thaddeus on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 22:47:12 Any Black person who challenges your White heritage is a racist, or a fascist, or an Aryan, and the list goes on forever. Quite to the contrary, J. The only black person IUve consistently accused of being a fascist here is YOU, old bean. And my reasons for labling you as such are quite clear: 1) you believe in the existence of biological races. 2) You believe that races have a natural and homogenous political position. 3) You believe, in short, that blood = politics. 4) Furthermore, you are an authoritarian. You believe that people who have incorrect political
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positions should ideally not be seen nor heard. 5) You believe that a vanguard elite should determine the correct political position for the masses. Now correct me if Im wrong here, J, but this pretty much sums up where you stand, doesnt it? Thats pretty much fascism, J. As for racism, hey, you praise the works of people who make no bones about the fact that they are racist. You yourself believe in the existence of biologically determined human races. Furthermore, you believe that these races can be categorized along a heirarchy from superior to inferior. As far as I can see, the only point where you and the average member of Stormfront would split on is WHAT categorization needs to be made i.e. which races are inferior and which are superior. Youre not a white supremacist, J, Ill give you that, but anyone who believes that humanity is divvied up into biologically determined races that can be ranked as better or worse is quite properly a RACIST. So again, J, if you think Im misreading your position here, Id be happy to hear from you as to what you think.
J Thad, Forgive me for saying so that many of your posts are far too long. And unfortunately, a large portion of it does not make some sense. For instance, you suggest and state: Youre not a white supremacist, J,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 23:13:57
Did you mean to write Black supremacist. Since as a Black person I am not quite sure how I can be a white supremacist?? Cheers
J And forgive me here Abagond. Here is an interpretation of angry Black women stereotype.
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 23:28:45
That there could be no confusion, or cross-cultural differences in interpretation with the term. I have cited a U.S. reference, and please observe the context that the text is written vis-a-vis my own words to describe a female commentator here http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/18/AR2008071802557.html and just for clarification here is another one
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http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/about/
JuJuBe on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 23:45:16 Thaddeus, while I do not believe that race determines all of an individuals characteristics, there IS a biological basis for race There are skeletal and genetic markers that differ between people of different races. Does this biology determine morality, intellect, values?? No. But to say there is no biological basis for race is a fallacy. The problem lies not with recognizing biological differences between races, it is with extrapolating those biological differences into a hierarchy. It is not racist to simply acknowledge certain biological markers that indicate race. Racism is prejudice + power. Racism is using those biological differences to assign a status based on them and having the collective power to enforce that hierarchy. Which is why white supremacy and racism go hand in hand.
Thaddeus @J Forgive me for saying so that many of your posts are far too long. What can I say? I dont write for the ADD crowd. For instance, you suggest and state: Youre not a white supremacist, J,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 23:46:45
Did you mean to write Black supremacist. Since as a Black person I am not quite sure how I can be a white supremacist?? You seem to feel that racism and white supremacy are synonymous. I do not believe thats the case. Racism is properly the belief that humanity can be divided into biological races and that, furthermore, these races can be ranked as better or worse. White supremacy is a variant of racism that situates whites (variously defined) in the top bracket. You are a racist, but hardly a white supremacist, J (though for some odd reason you often end up repeating aryanist fictions as if they were afrocentric truths).
J Cheers Thad,
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 23:53:45
As a Black guy I cannot be a White Supremacist, because I am not White. As for racism and White supremacy. As I said previously they are more or less the same thing, with the latter operating on a global level, as defined by African centred scholars.
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J The aforesaid is very well stated JuJuBe
on Thu 29 Jul 2010 at 23:56:38
J JuJuBe
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 00:02:22
All I would add that this book helps to explain why the Western world, had to have a u-turn with regard to the biological basis of race but not so in real terms
The Silent War: Imperialism and the Changing Perception of Race
A very good read!!
JuJuBe on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 00:11:22 Thanks for the suggestions J. I have been really stepping up my reading. I have gone from Cornel West and Randall Robinson to Neely Fuller Jr., Del Jones and Dr. Frances CressWelsing in the past few months. Definitely some eye opening material.
J
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on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 00:19:07
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JuJuBe Wowthat is a big leap between Cornell West and the likes of Neely Fuller Jnr et al. I think you must be one of the few here to have familiarised yourself with such African centred scholars If you do not mind me suggesting another, if you do not know it off course.
Yurugu: An African-Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior
Thaddeus @JuJuBe
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 00:26:46
First of all, Ju, no, there are no skeletal markers for different races at least in the way you probably think about races (black, white and etc.). Secondly, like most people who make these sort of comments, you seem to think that no races means all humans are biologically the same. Thats emphatically not the case. The fact of the matter, Ju, is that there are patterns to human biology, but these patterns cannot in any way be broken down into homogenous, stable, genetically congruent, subspecies which is, of
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course, what race originally meant. What it comes down to is this: races dont exist among humans not because we are all alike; they dont exist among humans because we are too different. The worlds foremost human genetics specialist, Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, estimates that if we were to divide humanity up according to naturally occuring genetically consistent breeding pools, wed have anywhere from 1,000,000 to 10,000,000 races on the planet. There are now some cynical folks out there trying to re-brand race as precisely this sort of human bio-patterning, but this is pouring new wine into old bottles. The race concept as historically defined quite clearly presumed that humanity can be divvied up into a few, stable and homogenous sub-species. That theory has been completely trashed by modern genetics and we have nothing at all to gain by using its name as a lable for the small, shifting, non-homogenous kind of genetic groupings which do indeed exist among humans. It is not racist to simply acknowledge certain biological markers that indicate race. True. Believing in the existence of human biological races alone is not racism: is is properly termed racialism. It becomes racism when that belief is coupled to a belief that said races can be organized heirarchically (as J and RR believe). It becomes classic white supremacy when you place the white race at the top of that heirarchy (RR) and Aryanism when you place the Aryan race at the top of that heirarchy. And yes, you can have white supremacism without racism, in spite of what you might think. Many of the hardcore Stormfront/KKK people have now become culturalists, in fact. Theyll tell you straight out that blacks arent inferior PHYSICALLY to whites, but are inferior CULTURALLY. The left-liberal wing of these nutters (if we can classify folks who are essentially fascist as left-liberal in any way, shape, or form) will even go so far as to say that this supposed cultural inferiority was created by slavery and not by anything primordial in African cultures themselves. Racism is prejudice + power. Racism is using those biological differences to assign a status basedon them and having the collective power to enforce that hierarchy. Yeah, I learned that in my freshman African-American Studies courses 25 years ago, too, Ju. That is, of course, the U.S. social sciences dogma regarding racism (Mira, take note: this is what kids get taught in Soc: 101 classes in the States). As far as it goes, I think its OK for a laymans understanding of race. But. Therere two major problems with that definition, which we can no longer avoid. First of all, it uses an increasingly obsolete and ultimately Marxist reification of power. I mean, what is collective power, exactly? I think minimally we need to take Foucault seriously when we think about power: one does not have power. Collectivities certainly do not have power as collectivities themselves are not actors and it is reifying to believe that they are. Secondly, where do we draw the boundary lines around the collectivities that supposedly have this power? Are they families? Neighborhoods? Tribes? Nation-states? Entire races (and how do we define those races)?
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Lets take the situation in Rwanda for an example of where this just-so story definition of race falls down. The Tutsis and Hutus do indeed qualify each other as biologically seperate peoples (and were qualified as such by European colonials) and do indeed arrange those qualifications hierarchically. For years, the Tutsi (who had been favored by the colonial Belgians) held power and used it to disenfranchise the Hutu. In 1994, the Hutu paid them back big time through a stunning display of what we can both probably agree was collective power. So was that racism? The problem is that were thinking of racism generally using tools that were developed following Marxist beliefs that the world can be divided into more-or-less cohesive entities that are eternally and irredeemably in conflict with one another and which have homogenous interests. Marx and Engels called these entities classes. Many if not most black activists take the same sort of analysis but swap in race for class. This is basically what Angela Davis did make in the day, under the mentorship of Herbert Marcuse. I think its high time we started breaking out of this essentially 19th century philosophical mold when it comes to thinking about racism, though obviously we dont want to go tossing the baby out with the bathwater here.
Thaddeus on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 00:31:20 @J As a Black guy I cannot be a White Supremacist, because I am not White. What part of You are a racist but hardly a white supremacist are you having trouble understanding, J? As for racism and White supremacy. As I said previously they are more or less the same thing Sorry, no they arent. with the latter operating on a global level, as defined by African centred scholars. African-centered scholars like your pal Bradley (Aryanist and anti-semite) or afrocentric like the jolly gentlemen over at Metapedia, an aryanist site that youve repeatedly linked us to as a decent resource on race ? Or is this your fall back afrocentrism were talking about here? The one that goes Any author J likes is afrocentric, no matter how obviously 19th century European his beliefs?
Thaddeus Afrocentric Frank Furedi (author of The Silent War).
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 00:39:01
Hungarian born and the chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party in the 1970s (yes, THAT RCP) and acclaimed humanist. Yes, this man has deeply imbided from the African philosophical tradition.
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Classic post-Soviet Marxist. Certainly no European-centered thought, there, J! Now heres an excellent book on what we now know on race and biology, written by the Einstien of human genetics:
Genes, Peoples and Languages (Penguin Press Science)
J Thad, I understood you loud and clearly.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 00:41:41
I am not worried what you think. I have my own views about you and partner. What I cannot understand is why you as a racist feel the need to convert any Black person who has a radical persuasion different to your own. So much so that you have to keep trawling round this blog, after every one of their comments, to correct their views. As I said you would be better suited doing that with your fellow White racist comrades on other sites, where you can apply the White racist fascsist ideology in its appropriate context This is where we are at the present moment. And if you cannot come up with the same rehersed un-informed, for a lecturer, arguments. Then
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nothing is going to change my opinions. Have you not observed I have not once tried to convert you from your own White racism. Strange world ey??
Thaddeus I have my own views about you and partner. Yeah, I just bet you do, J.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 00:58:06
What I cannot understand is why you as a racist feel the need to convert any Black person who has a radical persuasion different to your own. First of all, J, unlike you, I dont subscribe to tired European political theories from the 19th century. I dont see all discussion as an attempt to convert people. I mostly simply write to articulate what I think is true. Take it or leave it. As for radical persuaion, I dont see anyone posting here with one of those, J. Youre laughably reactionary so much co that you dont even realize, most of the time, that youre parroting Victorian European concepts. Me? Im hardly radical. Pretty much everyone posting here is comfortably middle-class and well-educated by global standards and I hardly doubt that their going to go out, firebrand in hand, to overturn the established order. About the only RADICAL here in the sense of doing something new and unheard of is Abagond, who manages this raucous zoo with a pretty fair hand.
J Thad Nothing you say here changes teh fact.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:02:48
You are traling those who have a different persuasion to yours and you would best suited joining your White racist comrades, instead of trying to convert one perveived Black Aryan type blah blah here
Thaddeus on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:04:48 J, Im VERY actively trolling certain aryanist sites. I post under my given name here (unlike you) and what I post, for better and for worse, is what I think. I have no wish to convert a single soul on this planet.
Leaveumthinking on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:05:21 As I said you would be better suited doing that with your fellow White racist comrades onother sites, where you can apply the White racist fascsist ideology in its appropriate context Thats what I dont understand. Instead of white people correcting their white buddies on Stormfront they rather come to this site to derail, preach to, and harrass blacks.
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J Thad, Do you expect me to believe this nonsense (see 4)?? I will put it down with
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:13:21
1. You read the Bell Curve when RR showed you had not 2. You read and quoted the Meltzer book from a Brazilian musuem but somehow you cannot find your way there or the book 3. You were reading from a miniscule pc and now 4. You troll aryanist sites but also at the same time you are not trying to convert anyone. Then what are you doing on those Aryan sitesAllow me to guess defending similar racist ideas like your comrades on these sites
Thaddeus on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:24:50 Oh, I correct white people all the time, leaveum. I have multiple trolls working racist sites. The difference between Abagonds site, however, and Stormfront is that this site promotes discussion and debate, not a party line. If you dont want to hear people enunciate opinions you disagree with, I sure you can find plenty of sites where youll only hear just what you want to hear. I mean, I think Js a fascist, but you dont see me telling him to go hang with the rest of the nutters over at the Metapedia eggsack, do you? Know why? Im HAPPY to listen to opinions I disagree with and just as happy to debate them. Your mileage obviously varies.
J Thad, As I said I think facism would be linked to your heritage than mine. This is the type of nonsense White people liek you try to do.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:32:05
Place the evil which belongs to your heritage and place on Black people. As for trolling sites, you mean you help to contribute along with your White comrades, some of whom are fascist also.
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Thaddeus As I said I think facism would be linked to your heritage than mine.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:40:40
See, theres one of the problems right there: you believe politics = blood. Thats fascism right there, J. Pure and simple.
Thaddeus on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:45:10 I mean, can you get more blood = politics than the idea that ones intellectual heritage is somehow defined by ones phenotype?
J Thad,
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:46:46
I am interested in your definition of fascism, and constantly trawling this blog calling me a fascist. You have given many definition of fascism. However, all your definitions, and not suprisingly exonerate White people. Nor does it properly give accounts of what happened historically. As a result of fascism what we see historically is White racists people dropping bombs -biological warfare against innocent Black people. This is fascism and I said it is a politic of White Supremacy racist thinking.
JuJuBe on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 01:55:48 Thad NO OTHER culture PRIOR to Westernization aka Europeanization (did I just make up a word??) EVER participated in violence and oppression on such a widespread scale as white people have. There is NO denying that, it is a FACT. Instead of trying to defend yourself and PROVE that other races as just as racist as whites, ACCEPT the truth and DO SOMETHING to change it for the future of humanity.
J on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 02:03:35 I have to say people like Thad are part of the problem the classic White liberal. He will be supporting and defending White till the day he dies
JuJuBe on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 02:09:42 See, now that is why, when I hear someone say Kill all whiteys I think to myself Well, I sure dont want to die, but I REALLY can see where you are coming from!!
Thaddeus
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on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 02:11:05
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JuJuBe, PLENTY of other peoples have acted like first-class douchebags before so-called westernization. The beliefe that humanity was all sweetness and light before the big, bad white guys came along is properly termed romanticism and it is, in and if itself, a European philosophy and not a very savory one at that. As for widespread, Ill give you that But wait: are you saying that, say, the Slavs and the Irish (who are certainly white) are somehow equally responsible for the conquest of Africa as, say, the Portuguese, Dutch, French and English? As for other races being just as racist as the whites Hell, I dont have a racismometer so I couldnt tell you how groups quantify in that respect. Frankly, I believe that the mayhem caused by, sya, the English and Belgians was much worse than that causde by the Hutus. But all the rhetoric in the world, Ju, wont change one single solitary fact: racism, as you yourself has said, is the belief that humanity can be divided up into heirarchically organized supspecies. THAT belief is quite well diffused across humanity by now, Ju. One doesnt have to be white to believe that sort of crap, unfortunately. Sorry that doesnt jibe with your dogmas, friend, but there it is. Ignoring it isnt going to make the world a better place for the future of humanity.
Thaddeus on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 02:59:06 I have to say people like Thad are part of the problem the classic White liberal. Wait, what? First Im a fascist and now Im a liberal? J, do you even think about the bulls%& you write, or does it just flow out of your head, streamof-consciousness style?
Mira on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 08:55:30 Ok, lets take things slowly. This IS going to be a long comment (sorry, J). I was offline last night and there are so many new comments. JuJuBe I dont know if you read comments before mind. I am sorry if my comment made it seem I believe black women are angry or hate white women or whatever. I dont believe that. Like others pointed out, my angry comment was directed at J and things he implied. Thats why I put his words in that is not something I believe in. Furthermore, I never commented on the state in the black community in a way that I was telling people what to do, believe or how to act. I was merely asking questions. I dont really know much about black community or white community so I ask. If you think that I am forbidden to be interested in these matters, fair enough, but the owner of his site newer asked me to leave or not participate in I know what is like when members of a dominant culture wants to tell people of your culture what to
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do, what kind of people you are, when they want to help, when they treat you like a mindless, inferior crap. Id never do that to anybody else. In any case, my reply was directed at J and his complete logic fail, in which he implied I got a pass for being a white woman and that black women hate on white women- while he was the only one attacking me here and I never had any conflict with any black woman here (even if we disagree on what we write) or a hate vibe. So his logic fails. That is all I wanted to say- that what he wrote didnt make any sense.
Mira @J
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 09:14:19
What I find interesting is that you live in aWhite country with no Blacks by your ownadmission. So therefore you should not be familiar with those racist attitudes that one finds in a racist society. Its not that simple. There are two factors you must take into account: a different type of racism and globalization. Because no blacks live in my country, the type of racism we have is different than the racism people have in multiracial countries. Its so called pre-contact racism. Most of us never met a black person so we dont have much of an opinion what a black person is like. Blacks are no threat to us, our mothers dont tell us dont bring home a black guy. Theres also no white guilt: my people were never slave owner, we were the slaves! So we have a history of being the oppressed ones and not the oppressors. So any racism in my culture is very, very different than those in the west. You cant even imagine (and you obviously are not interested in learning about it). On the other hand, globalization makes western attitudes about racism known even in my country. Whenever I watch an American film, for example, I am being fed the stereotypes about races. Racism is built in the Americna culture so by globalization it becomes part of my own culture too. But its not the same as in America or the west. Its not the same because we dont know what is really like in the west- all we get is a skewed image that we cant interpret the way a westerner can because we dont share the same culture as westerners. So American movies and TV series send us a view of America that might not be true at all (not about racism, about everything). So whenever somebody actually go to America, he or she is often disappointed and always surprised- because true America is different than the one shown in the movies. The same goes for portrayal of blacks. Movies feed me with stereotypes, but I cant interpret them the same way a westerner can. For example, a westerner watch a movie in which a main character (white woman) has a loyal, safely black best friend. Black audience cringes. White audience interprets this as the way blacks should be, even though they know (from personal experience) many blacks are not like that (if nothing else, they know blacks often stick together and have best friends in their own group). Audience in my country knows nothing about this. What we see we think its true. The way we interpret it is that its usual for a black person in America to make white friends more than black ones. Maybe its a stupid example, but hopefully it makes sense.
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However, you have the same racist attitudes as those born and raised within a racist society. Examples, please. I know you are keen to deny White people are evil, being White yourself. Not really. I never said whites werent evil (or were) evil- I just said that your comment in the form of youre white and therefore evil doesnt answer my question, and the question was: what aspects of my views on race you find confusing. Irrespective of whether Whites are evil or not?? What cannot be denied is how pervasive White racist/Supremacy attitude is prevalent and you are a prime example in this instance. Examples, J. You cant say anything similar to its obvious you dont know what your talking about without providing an example on WHAT I said that you find questionable.
Mira Also: @JuJuBe
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 09:30:44
There IS NO biological basis for race. Like Thad already explained, its not because we are all the same but because humans are genetically way too different to be put in races, that is, distinctive and absolute subspecies. There are no absolute genetic markers that would make race definition easy in a way of: white person is somebody who has X, Y and Z markers, and not A,B, and C ones. It would mean that these markers are something that each and every one white people have, but none of the people of other races. It doesnt work that way. What we see as races is a cultural construct made in specific time and place in history, and with specific needs. Theres no biological reason for it. Oh sure, Dolph Lundgren and Yaphet Kotto have different physical features- anybody can see that- but there are physical differences between Dolph Lundgren and Robert Downey Jr. So why are they Dolph and Yaphet considered to be of different races, but not Dolph and Robert? There is NO biological reason for it to be so. Basing a race difference on skin colour is no more logical than basing it on eye colour (in which case many whites would be considered the same race as most of the blacks, and everybody would see that as logical and natural.
J Forgive me here Mira,
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 09:41:41
I no longer have the energy to respond. Even if I did the answer I give would not be a sincere response on my part. The thing when you talk to White people about racism, especially those of the liberal persuasion is that Black people can find themselves talking till they are blue in the face and even then the point is not understood.
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Its a regular feature off life and also on this board too. As I have said on this blog previously. Those Whites who will be sufficiently removed from racism that it can be significant effective,will prove to be the exception rather than the norm.
Mira on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 09:50:04 Even if I did the answer I give would not be a sincere response on my part. Why? Why would you lie to me? The thing when you talk to White people about racism, especially those of the liberal persuasion is that Black people can find themselves talking till they are blue in the face and even then the point is not understood. The problem is, J, you already decided who am I and what are my beliefs based solely on the fact Im white. EVEN WHEN I AGREE WITH YOU (and it happens more often that youd like to admit) you tell me Im a white supremacist. I say whites treat blacks as crap and you call me a white supremacist. It did happen here and we all know it. Just search the old replies. On the other hand, you constantly fail to answer any question I might ask, and you constantly hide behind your own privilege. PS-You have an energy to respond to fight with Thad in long posts full of links but now you suddenly dont want to give me the time of the day and reply to my comments.
J Mira,
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 10:21:38
Like any other commentator here , I have judged you according to your OWN words, on a computer screen. Good point about Thad, more fool me but as you should see I try to keep my responses to him as short as possible. Look how much he writes, his various points. If you have a look take the time. And see how much of what he writes I ignore Nor do I chooses to go into long debates with him, because a lack of his reasoning skills and his racist persuasion. See even you managed to ellicit another response.
Mira on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 10:44:10 Like any other commentator here , I have judged you according to your OWN words, on a computer screen. What words? Those where I agree with you?
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The thing is, J, you are not here to have a discussion. Whenever somebody says something about anything that you dont agree with, you label them as a white supremacist (if white) or a race traitor (if black). Yes, its simple as that. Note that the disagreement doesnt have to be about race at all; it can be about anything not even related to race, and youll still do it.
J Mira, That is the get out-clause that Thad and you like to use. And that you say so, is quite intrguing.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 11:15:55
Anything I have said I can back up historically, with research. I do not quite see it with Thad and yourself. I see refutations where you disagree but nothing academically, to refute the contention. One of the reason because academically, you do not know any critique of say Diops two cradle theory and/or Cress theory to explain the phenomena of White racism. Even Im aware of the critique of these theories. What Thad and yourself then proceed to do is to give reasons why YOU think it is false, but there is nothing academic which is brought forth to the table. The simple fact is if anyone is defending White heritage and those part that impact upon White Supremacy which is a global system, which I explained to you before. Then that individual is a racist. Whites tend to think only those on the Far Right or Neo-Nazis are the ONLY ones that can be White Supremacist. Even Thad has suggested this in one of his response. What Whites do not understand that racism is a continuum, with non-racist at one end, liberal in the middle and White Supremacy at the the polar end. For me any individual supporting significantly, or in this case by any of their words on a computer screen White Supremacy as global system is a racist and a White Supremacist. This is irrespective of what a White-euro centred perspective might suggest who is racist and who is not Its as simple as that really.
J And with regard to:
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 13:06:27
Whenever somebody says something about anything that you dont agree with, you label them as a white supremacist (if white) or a race traitor (if black). Yes, its simple as that.
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It is clear the race traitor is linked specifically to one commentator here. And one which you have chosen to defend. What is interesting is when the commentator chose to castigate American Black males, to the point of distancing herself from them ie her own race. Your silence was deafening. Now that Istep forward to suggest there is a lack of race consciousness within that commentator. You cannot or more specifically choose not to understand the reasons why I suggest this is the case. You suggest I merely call any Black commentator who I disagree with a race traitor. This is an over-simplification to say the least, but comforting nonetheless to a White mind that does not have any understanding of racism
Natasha W Mira,
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 13:26:56
The thing is, J, you are not here to have a discussion. Whenever somebody says something about anything that you dont agree with, you label them as a white supremacist (if white) or a race traitor (if black). Yes, its simple as that. Cosign. Both of which are of course, ad hominems, as J always uses.
J Natasha W.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 15:01:04
Its not ad hominems if one can demonstrate through reasoning that one endorses White centred values, or in your case lacks race consciousness and hates Black African-American males in favour of White males. If what I say is not correct, you should be able to defend your position accordingly, and show me where this is not the case. I stand by what I said and you are very fortunate that Abagond incorrectly chose to remove my comments. Since he cannot demonstrate that my words were ad hominems. The problem that you face is that I am essentially using the words you wrote about yourself. It may have been okay to use those words to condemn your own Black American male counterpart. However, you should not take umbrage when a mirror is then shown the contradictory nature of your position
J
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on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 15:09:31
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Edit: However, you should not take umbrage when a mirror is then shown to reveal the contradictory nature of your position.
J Natasha W.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 15:27:36
And before we should forget and lose sight of whats the basis of our new debate?? It was your decision (ie a lack of race consciousness from my standpoint) to defend UM, presumably because he reminds you of your partner. So much so you felt the need to explain away his comments. I think it would be best if you explained yourself, perhaps on the other thread, not according to sentiment,s but according to the words and the facts on that thread.
Natasha W J, Ill wait for you to explain why you defend white women, first.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 15:29:43
Thaddeus @J I no longer have the energy to respond.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 15:31:50
The thing when you talk to White people about racism, especially those of the liberal persuasion is that Black people can find themselves talking till they are blue in the face and even then the point is not understood. Ever notice how J always wusses out when someone asks him to put his money where his mouth is? I mean, heres J, tossing out ad hominems left and right about how Mira and I are racist (apparently simply for being white) and how Im an evil liberal (or is that a fascist?) When asked to show us EXACTLY what he means by this, J hems and haws and basically says Well, youre white and dont agree with me, so you must be these things. Then Mira asks him to show us some examples of where and how shes defending whites or being a white supremacist. All of a sudden, J gets tired and worn out and starts complaining that its impossible to get whites to listen to or really understand him. Youre wrong J: both Mira and I have been very carefully listening to you and I think we understand you pretty well. For myself, Ill say that I think your one of the most talented bullsh&&&ers that Ive ever met online. I mean, you got to have brass balls the size of the London Bridge to claim as you have repeatedly done that aryanist anti-semites are in fact afro-centric thinkers.
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My personal problem with you J is that youre a shallow thinker with a long line of bulls&& and the ability to use Google. Your only response to any critique made of your thoughts is to trot out the good old race card. Hell, even when it comes to dealing with black feminists, it ultimately comes back to the fact that you believe that they are race traitors (probably because no right-thinking black woman would ever give you more than the time of day). Hell, I bet you have a race-based explanation for absolutely everything in this world, including for what football team you root for. I bet that if I were to contradict your belief that vindaloo is the greatest take-out in the human history, youd ascribe that to white racist eurocentrism as well. Youre a one trick pony, J and its really a shame because its obvious that you have a good head on your shoulders. But until you get beyond this infantile, neo-Marxian belief that being a member of an oppressed class means that your sh&& doesnt stink, youre not going to do much more on life than colonize the internet while whining about racist oppression.
Thaddeus on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 15:46:20 One of the reason because academically, you do not know any critique of say Diops two cradle theory and/or Cress theory to explain the phenomena of White racism. Even Im aware of the critique of these theories. What Thad and yourself then proceed to do is to give reasons why YOU think it is false, but there is nothing academic which is brought forth to the table. Actually, both Mira and I have pointed out the problems with cradle of civilization theory in general on a couple of occasions. Diop believes that sub-saharan Africa was just as important as the mediterranean basin in developing what we now call civilization. Theres no deep afrocentric or unusual thing there, J. Id say that recent archeological research supports him, as far as that goes. The problem with hsi theory is the persistent belief rooted in 19th century Victorian thought, I might add that civilization spreads from well-defined and discrete cradles. Now what kind of academics do you want brought to the table on this point, J? The many (many, many) modern archeologists who see Egyptian civilization as developing in the middle of golden crescent of human economic and cultural activity that stretches from Mesopotamia down to the Sudan? OR the academics who now believe that nothing as complicated as civilization springs up over night in a limited area, that anything as complicated as this needs must be the result of widespread, complex interactions, one of which is necessarily long-distance trade (a belief which means that cradle might not only stretch south into Africa, but all the way over into whats now China, too)? In short, J, there are plenty of authors out there who no longer believe that civilization, however we describe it, can be understood as a relatively localized phenomena. Would you like a library on this point?
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Or perhaps youd rather some milk anc cookies?
J Thad,
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 18:07:14
Justto let you know since I am sure you do Thad (that) You still do not understand the theory F for failure I am a- F- raid. Oh dear!!
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J Cheers Natasha W. I didnt particularly know or realised I defended White women.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 19:06:01
Personally I have observed something in your comments, where if you are speaking ill of groups its the Black American males and White women generally. There is no kind words However, when you are speaking of other groups. You always speak in high regard viz. of White males and then there is a reasonable tone akin to Mira and Thad, which you constantly keep repeating White race are not evil. Perhaps because I do not speak out with the same ferocity as you regarding White females. You then suggest I like them even though I am not in an IRR. Or perhaps, it is a knee-jerk mechanism to deflect attention away from yourself?? (ie a smokescreen). Personally, I would go for the latter Be that as it may for now. It is from these comments which I call facts that I tried to find an underlying reason to the processes of whyt you like certain groups. Abagond suggested following your lead incorrectly surmises they were ad homineims. Personally I think it is fair and reasonable for a commentator to question why would a fellow poster only like White males, speak reasonably well about the White race group, but never about their females. This notwithstanding your position regarding Africans on the continent, from which you are descended. And this is what I did, and those comments were deleted, even though I was prepared for them to be deleted as a good-will gesture but NOT because they were ad hominems. So over to you I guess to how do you react to this truth??
JuJuBe on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 19:31:01 J- I wanted to let you know that I ordered the book you suggested by Marimba Ani. I actually have a friend I have been speaking to since January who has helped expose me to a lot of authors and books written from an African perspective, which has been really eye opening for me. I asked him about the book you suggested and he informed me that Marimba Ani is looked at as a revered elder, and requested that when I finish the book I pass it on to him. I will, but if it is as good as I suspect it will be, I may have to purchase a second copy to refer back to. Do you blog anywhere I can check out??
J on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 19:45:10 Thank you JuJuBe, I am humbled that you even took the time to listen.
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As for blogging out, to be honest JuJuBe, I think I am slowing down. Its only so much information one can take in. And when I say information, I am referring to the full spectrum even the eurocentric and white racist ideologies Be that as it may, however, if there is one blog when I am not here off course ha ha , that I will always check out for its information is: http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/ I think this one site gives an all round perspective, historical, cultural, political etc, and this respect it is very useful. Perhaps you might be kind enough to recommend to me some of your own favourite sites. Cheers
JuJuBe on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 19:55:32 J- Since I am relatively new to the world of blogging, I have not really delved that deeply into anything other than personal blogs with a bit of commentary added in. Every thing is pretty main stream. If you check out my blog (which is a mix of personal and only mildly political) it has a blog roll of some of what I read.
J Cheers JuJuBe.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 20:14:04
I had a look at your site, very interesting, and your quotes starting with Sylvia Plath (is she a heroine of yours) to the more radical revolutionaries at the bottom. Good luck with your blog
Mira J, That is the get out-clause that Thad and you like to use.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 20:45:13
In case you didnt notice, I did try to discuss here with you. I asked you question that you decided to ignore and use Anything I have said I can back up historically, with research. I do not quite see it with Thad and yourself. Quite contrary, you rarely back up what you say. You do post links, and I give you credit there: you are good at finding interesting articles and links. But the links you post often fail to illustrate what youre talking about. Still, it is a discussion and its a good thing. Im referring to your posts that dont help discussion in any form. By saying youre wrong because I say so- but not providing any explanation, even if asked to do that- you are not making any discussion possible. (Regardless if
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youre, in fact, right or wrong). Furthermore, I did post you links, and I did back up historically, archaeologically and anthropologically everything I wrote. You simply chose to ignore it. You say something like: Whites never question whether Ancient Greece was a white civilization! White supremacists!!!! and I reply, stating that its simply not true- todays authors talk about this a lot, and all you have to say to that is: well, thats just your opinion, because youre white supremacist. That simply doesnt make discussion possible. Which is a shame, because it IS possible to discuss with you when you forget about the whole youre wrong because I say so trope. It is clear the race traitor is linked specifically to one commentator here. Actually, no. You called more than one person race traitor. I was under the impression that is the term you use often and that you dont hide it, just like you dont hide you call many people white supremacists. What is interesting is when the commentator chose to castigate American Black males, to the pointof distancing herself from them ie her own race. Your silence was deafening. This is not true. First of all, I dont know much about whats going on among blacks and therefore I cant speak about it (even though JuJuBe accused me of doing it). I did speak about black womens rights, but I fail to see how that makes trashing black men. In fact, I was spammed several times for defending black men here (for the simple fact I said I find them attractive), Ive been called race traitor and a self hater. But I guess you werent paying attention. And one more thing concerning this matter (namely, Natashas comments). You wrote to her: Personally I have observed something in your comments, where if you are speaking ill of groups its the Black American males and White women generally. There is no kind words.However, when you are speaking of other groups. You always speak in high regard viz. of White males and then there is a reasonable tone akin to Mira and Thad. And Mira is suddenly not a white woman? Member of a group Natasha allegedly hates? This is between you and Natasha, I understand. But I just had to point out, because its a good example of a logic fail in your writing.
J Mira, Just briefly
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 20:58:55
1.Who have I called a race traitor, its not a word i use in my vocabulary, let alone day to day. 2. With regard to links: But the links you post often fail to illustrate what youre talking about.
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Would it not be safe to say from that your educational background the links go against eurocentricism, and you do not accept the afrocentric position. Something you are not generally supportive of. One spring to mind a. When I produced a link by Apum to show that the Table of Nations has been manipulated by Whites scholars. You still insisted that Egyptians and Nubians were NOT denoted the same. Even though that site revealed a lot more information about the Table than known generally I think you should be able to see this on How Black Were The Ancient Egyptian thread As for any other examples, since this is a regular feature of sommething that I do. It should be pretty easy for you to bring forth some concrete examples. So we can test the validity of what you say is true, or whether it is vain imaginations, as it pertains to 2??
Mira on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 21:19:25 1.Who have I called a race traitor, its not a word i use in my vocabulary, let alone day to day. I remember you called Natasha race traitor and also Thads wife. Also, your comments made me believe that is the term you use frequently, that its something you use to label people just like you use white supremacist. If Im wrong and if this is ad hominem, I am sorry, but then you should explain your reasons for calling somebody a race traitor (or a white supremacist) better. 2. With regard to links: But the links you post often fail to illustrate what youre talking about. Would it not be safe to say from that your educational background the links go againsteurocentricism, and you do not accept the afrocentric position. Something you are not generally supportive of. No, Im not talking about interpretations. Lets face it, J: whatever your profession is, its not anything related to social science or humanities. You simply dont know much about it, even if you are interested in reading about afrocentrism. Its your right; nobody says you must be an anthropologist to state your opinion. However, since you are not an social scientist, you sometimes fail to understand what a certain text is about. It did happen more than once that you provided a link that didnt illustrate your point or a link in which an author, for example, had an eurocentric position that you thought was afrocentric. It did happen more than once that you recommended work by a white supremacist (and called those who didnt share views expressed there white supremacist). a. When I produced a link by Apum to show that the Table of Nations has been manipulated by Whites scholars. You still insisted that Egyptians and Nubians were NOT denoted the same. Even though that site revealed a lot more information about the Table than known generally I remember that. As I remember, I didnt deny the possibility of a white conspiracy (if wouldnt be the first time they did something like that)- all I tried to point out was that, Table of Nations or not, Egyptians made clear in many other sources that they DID NOT see Nubians as one of their own.
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Also, whether Nubians were physically similar to Egyptians (in skin colour for example) is irrelevant because, as we discussed here for more than one time, races as we know it today didnt exist back then.
J Mira,
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 21:32:01
1. This is an outright lie on your part and bespeaks of the conversation I was having with King, where individuals will use language to draw inferences that are not there. And in your case use language maliciously to serve your own ends What I said of both parties is that they lack race-consciousness/BSWM. And if you want a reason, I can back it up accordingly. So its not just me hurling out abuse at the parties concerned, but rather it is based on critical analysis 2. I am glad you remember the Apum conversation because you did not offer any valid reason apart from suggesting that it could not be so. I would surmise because you are against such Afrocentric scholarship generally, and because it goes against what you have learnt. I think I will leave it there for now since I am going to see if I can find the conversation. So we can be very clear and precise with regard to language as King & I (isnt that a film??) was discussing on another thread.
Ankhesen Mi on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 22:21:15 Thats what I dont understand. Instead of white people correcting their white buddies on Stormfront they rather come to this site to derail, preach to, and harrass blacks. *nods* Pretty much.
Thaddeus @J You still do not understand the theory. Bullsh##, J. You can
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 23:45:36
Thaddeus @J You still do not understand the theory.
on Fri 30 Jul 2010 at 23:53:26
Bullsh##, J. You cant even articulate Diops theory on the two cradles topic, let alone understand it. Hell, you think the Iceman theory is hot afrocentric science. Im beginning to wonder if you ever in fact read books, J. As opposed, you know, to blurbs on
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Amazon.com. You always speak in high regard viz. of White males and then there is a reasonable tone akin to Mira and Thad, which you constantly keep repeating White race are not evil. Ahn. I see now. Claiming that white people are not necessarily evil is racist. Because any true scientist knows that any group of a billion or so human beings obviously has the same exact political and cultural beliefs and that these beliefs can be perceived simply through looking at the quantity of melanin in their skin. Gee, J, how scientific. Youre right: its amazing that anyone would have the racist gall to claim that your white people are evil hypothesis could be racist in even the slightest degree.
J Calm down good sir I will stand by what I say that you are not familiar with Diop.
on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 00:32:02
There should be no shame in this unless one is attempting to present a false picture. What I find strange is that since we last had our discussion. You have had plenty of time to be conversant with the theory and you still are not. Where you will continue to have problems is finding on the internet how his theory ties into White racism/Supremacy. Something you have found out already. If I am wrong, then I am willing to discuss it with you on the other thread, and it will reveal objectively how much you do know? Cheers!!
Thaddeus I will stand by what I say that you are not familiar with Diop.
on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 00:56:33
Not as familiar as you CLAIM to be, perhaps, but Im beginning to suspect Ive actually read more of the man than you have, J. Where you will continue to have problems is finding on the internet how his theory ties into White racism/Supremacy. J, where have I ever suggested that Diop is a white supremacist? I have said that the cradle of civilization theory comes straight out of 19th century diffusionist anthropology. It does. Ive tried to discuss this with you many times, but youve avoided the discussion like the plague.
J Thad,
on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 01:13:12
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You seem to be confusing the issue just a little. I never said that you suggested he is a White Supremacist. What I was suggesting is that the two cradle theory provides an explanation also for White racism/Supremacy. This aspect of his theory is very hard to find on the net. Hope this has clarified.
Thaddeus on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 01:26:17 You seem to be confusing the issue just a little. I never said that you suggested he is a White Supremacist. No, you suggested that I said he was a white supremacist. Right here, look: Where you will continue to have problems is finding on the internet how his theory ties into White racism/Supremacy. But even forgiving your tortured syntax, you will not find Diop discussing how white supremacy is explained by a two cradle model, anywhere, BECAUSE HE NEVER DOES. End of story.
J Thad,
on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 01:41:52
I think the word ties acts as a conjunction between Diop and White Supremacy. Have a re-read of the sentence. Where you will continue to have problems is finding on the internet how his theory ties into White racism/Supremacy. Something you have found out already Even if you could not understand. The last sentence should have qualified the matter, because you have gone on searches on the net already but have been unable to find the appropriate information. This leads me nicely on to my next point. With regard to Diop on White racism/supremacy. Let me understand: 1. I am going to come on here and pretend I know Diops two cradle theory when I do not. 2. I am going to play this out by picking an aspect of his theory, which is difficult to find on the net, so no-one will be able to refute my contention. 3. And on and on the game goes I dont think so somehow.
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JuJuBe on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 02:09:19 Wait a second, Thad you come on here acting like you are this supreme intellectual and you really believe that in order for a a theory to be tied to white supremacy the person whose theory it is has to EXPLICITLY mention white supremacy??? Come on now, I have not read the theory mentioned but ANY individual with an inkling of intelligence should be able to make ties between theories and practices without having to have it spelled out for them. I am reading a book about American history right now. It does not explicitly mention the words white supremacy but it is not too difficult to see it in action!
Thaddeus on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 03:45:10 @J I think the word ties acts as a conjunction between Diop and White Supremacy. Have a re-read of the sentence. Yeah, I know, J: YOU feel that Diop is explaining something that he never talked about and thus I somehow dont understand Diop because Im not telepathic and thus cant figure out whatever wierd little scenario youre running in your brain regarding the mans works. Next
Thaddeus on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 03:51:22 @Ju Oh, heavens! Im acting as if I know something regarding a topic Ive actually studied for years, in and out of the university. Holy crap! How arrogant can a guy get? Regarding your comments, yeah, I think that if Diop believed that his two cradle theory somehow explained white supremacy, hed have said that. Intellectuals are notorious for that sort of thing, you know. But hell, go ahead and fantasize whatever you want about the man. As long as were presuming things that Diop DIDNT say, why dont you just rare back and tell us about how he really believed that white people were invaders from the 9th dimension? I mean, nothing in his writings says anything about this, but as long as were going to be making stuff up and whining that others dont understand the mans works because they want to restrict themselves to what he actually SAID [Roll eyes] Come on now, I have not read the theory Well theres yet another thing that you and J have in common then. But heck, JuJu, dont let the fact that you havent actually read an author stop you from berating me over my supposed misinterpretation of what he says. I mean who needs to read books when you can just make up anything you want about them, right?
JuJuBe on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 04:40:49 Ummm Thad if you actually READ my comment, you will see that I do not claim to KNOW what Diop meant by his work, since I have not read it. I simply said that something does not have to be
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EXPLICITLY stated in someones work for it to be SUPPORTED and IN EVIDENCE. That is a general commentary. If you CANNOT read between the lines and relate theory to the real world in ANY article, book, paper, etc, then you are missing out on half of the message.
JuJuBe on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 04:45:37 And Thad, read Js message again too because obviously you were clueless the first time around. Saying that a theories ties into white supremacy IS NOT saying the author is a white supremacist, it is saying that there is a correlation between the information in the theory and the fact of white supremacy.
Natasha W J,
on Sat 31 Jul 2010 at 14:23:49
Personally I have observed something in your comments, where if you are speaking ill of groups its the Black American males and White women generally. There is no kind words I havent said anything about white women that I havent said about white men. Which is that the majority of both are racist. I have many positive comments about black males outside of this thread. But you choose to focus on the negative and conjure up conspiracies well, thats not really my issue. However, when you are speaking of other groups. You always speak in high regard viz. of White males and then there is a reasonable tone akin to Mira and Thad, which you constantly keep repeating White race are not evil. Yes, because saying most white males are racist is speaking in high regard of them Do you read before you comment? I dont think whites are evil and rotten to the core, nope. Sorry. That includes the males and females, in case you try to make it seem as if I am coddling one gender. Perhaps because I do not speak out with the same ferocity as you regarding White females. You then suggest I like them even though I am not in an IRR. Sure youre not. In case you forgot how ferociously you defended white women, you might want to check this post again: http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/06/15/are-white-women-less-racist-than-white-men/ Or perhaps, it is a knee-jerk mechanism to deflect attention away from yourself?? (ie a smokescreen). I think your last several comments to me have been a smokescreen to get out of answering my questions and exposing your hypocrisy, yup.
Kim
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on Mon 2 Aug 2010 at 00:24:56
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Modern day WWT? http://news.spreadit.org/sabbar-kashur-arab-man-convictedisraeliwoman-raped-rape-by-deception-in-jerusalem/ While the woman in question is Jewish so maybe does not count as a white woman in the eyes of some, she is very decidedly in the priviledged and powerful class within her culture. And while i dont approve of people who would misrepresent themselves to those they want to get with Come on, this this story beggars belief. Men tell lies to get in womens pants. not all men but some. we women know this. The fact that she slept with him so few minutes after meeting him, makes any claim of innocence on her part moot. A date or two would have exposed his lying. Also the Elizabeth Hassellbeck examples are great examples of this. And the delusional girl around election time who scratched BO into her cheeks while looking into a mirror and pretended mean black thugs had done it, even though mean black thugs would not have scratched it backwards, mirror style. I dont know how come it is so easy for us to side with our oppressors, when white women are oppressed too, albeit at an entirely different level. Perhaps the behavior that led to those kind and gentle examples of womanhood to be able to stand by and WATCH lynchings with no concern, save excitement at the merriment of the ocassion is some sort of variation on the stockholm syndrome. Or maybe we are in some sort of denial of our oppression? This is something that I wonder about poor white MEN as well. How can working class men look at blacks and mexicans as threats when the actual threat is the rich white man who does not give a damn if you live or die, as long as you work for him cheap? I would like to think that that a great many of us white women consider elizabeth hassellbeck and her ilk scum.
HoneyB on Fri 20 Aug 2010 at 20:40:58 Just curious why did the posters the ones originally sticking to the issue allow themselves to be derailed by those who want to make it all about BM (were the bigger victims!) and white supremacists? Skip those comments and stick to the issue. If you ignore them theyll be talking to themselves pretty soon.
penelope524 on Sun 12 Sep 2010 at 01:38:43 Hmm, what to say. I stumbled across this photo as I searched the net for healthy womennot sure why this picture popped up. However, when it did I squinted and thought, no that cant be what Im seeing. Of course, I clicked on the photo and then felt sick. So I closed out the photo and found this blog underneath. Heres my white woman opinion of the blog (I did not read all of the comments). Seeing that picture doesnt make me want to cry, I have never been a crier despite my color. Seeing that photo pisses me off, almost as much as it saddens me. To think that a human being could do that to another human being just sickens me. Those men have families, loved ones, they had a life and it was theirs to live. Why anyone would ever think it was OK to hurt another human mystifies me. This is way beyond hurt though, isnt it? Every single one of those people standing in that crowd should have been hung along side those men. Two wrongs dont make a right but IMO those people cannot be salvaged. To stand by, possibly even participate, and smile even!! I noticed that hanging wasnt fun enough for these white @$#%@(I will respect the comment rules and not swear), no they had to torture and beat these men first. May they rest in peace. I really wish I hadnt come across that photo, I just want to throw up. However, it is our history, what was done to your people by our people. It cant be ignored, erased or fixed. I would never ever stand
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by as something like that happened. I guess thats why God put me here in the 70s..I probably would have murdered for thinking it should be ok to just be human. Period.
Aiyo on Sun 19 Sep 2010 at 11:31:16 There was a white woman who lied that a black woman threw acid on her recently. She says that she is sorry that it got bigger than she expected not for wasting the ploce time not for all the black women that probably matched her lame description and were badgered. Foolish woman http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/16/police-washington-woman-admits-acid-attack-was-a-hoax/ Maybe you should do a post on phantom black assailants
Herneith on Sun 19 Sep 2010 at 15:22:25 What a lunatic! Yes a post on phantom black assailants is indeed in order.
medium on Tue 23 Nov 2010 at 22:56:30 this has happen to me before with a white female. i agree with this post
Mei Ly on Wed 24 Nov 2010 at 02:24:51 On the usage of the N word I have heard white people and they were white males and I called them out on it. They apologized for it. But the people I have the most problem with using the N word are Asians. Usually whites seem to try to be more politically correct and say African American and stuff. Actually, Ive never been called N***er except by a Korean guy. White girls I have come into contact with just act bitchy. I havent seen them cry. Well once I made a white girl cry in High School (nothing on race) but she apologized and we made up. But, yea, I dont think I have ever experience the white girls tears. As far as Elizabeth Hasselb*tchyea, she is just crying because she cant use the word.
White women are stereotyped differently from Black and Asian on Sun 2 Jan 2011 at 03:12:32 women. Restructure! [...] people generally see black women as mannish, so a white, male White Knight typically rushes to aid a white woman, but not a black woman, even when the white woman is the aggressor towards the black woman. Racial stereotypes can [...]
ButThenWhy on Thu 14 Apr 2011 at 21:12:13 My experience with the Classic Scene: The first time a particularly obnoxious white female co-worker saw my hair in an Afro, she ran up squealing, completely eliminated my personal space, used both hands to grab either side of my hair and pull and screeched, Ooooh, look at you! Im gonna go get my makeup and use your head to put it on. *record scratches to a halt* Ive had comments before (since we come from outer space and all), but never this kind of flagrant foul. Though she was clearly in violation, if I protest along comes the hypersensitive angry black woman label. I told her in no uncertain terms that she had just committed a MAJOR violation, that I
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was not the resident of a petting zoo and that under no circumstances should she repeat her behavior EVER again. She burst into tears, screaming But Im not one of THOSE PEOPLE! and ran dramatically from the room. Then everyone turns and looks at me like Im some sort of monster for making her cry. No one could believe what I had just done to HER. Long story short, my rep is now Angry Black Woman who made poor ___ cry. Meanwhile, the catalytic event might as well never have happened. *sighs & understands*
a person on Sat 16 Apr 2011 at 13:31:17 Its a shame this conversation isnt based in a discussion on how terrible human beings treat each other. To pinpoint white women as the cause for racist oppression, or to blame one group as being more racist than another is the reason we have these prejudices in the first place. Its two sides of the same coin. A conversation that gets to the heart of the issue is a discussion in how people try to use power over another and why as humans we feel we need to do that. Why is the use of power so attractive? Why are we as humans afraid of those different than us? All humans around the world separate themselves in fear and abuse out of false ideas of power. All humans stereotype in order to make their worldview make sense even if their stereotypes only perpetuate and create the problems we face. Just like this blog.
Pamela on Fri 20 May 2011 at 02:18:57 I cant stand how a white womans racism is swept under the rug by society. I notice that a lot of threads on topics saying vile things about black women are started by white women. To make matters worse black men join the white women in their slandering of black women.
Suburban Guerrilla Blog Archive White privilege etc. [...] see A White Womens Tears. Bookmark [...]
on Tue 24 May 2011 at 18:13:52
laromana on Tue 24 May 2011 at 20:51:22 laromana says, Pamela, Your comment is totally on point. The fact is that along with those WW who play the EWB (entitled White Bh) card, ANTI-BW BM are to blame for condoning/promoting ANTI-BW HATE/HATERS, instead of defending the humanity, dignity, and femininity of their SAME RACE women. Pamela says, I cant stand how a white womans racism is swept under the rug by society. I notice that a lot of threads on topics saying vile things about black women are started by white women. To make matters worse black men join the white women in their slandering of black women.
kardinal austin (@kardinalaustin)

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on Thu 25 Aug 2011 at 01:55:37
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Interesting blog posts United states anglo-european constantsall of which are done to maintain the status quo. For more information read: -White like me -The isis papers -the falsification of afrikan consciousness -Sundown Towns (Dr. James Loewen) -The new jim crow -Dirty little secrets about black history
crammasters on Thu 1 Sep 2011 at 17:56:07 Another example of how truth is stranger than fiction. Ive been a big fan of your blog for some time now. Always food for serious thought Im the co-author of two books and my email is info@trojanhorse1.com Please forgive me for including this nfo on your blog but I saw no other way of contacting you and wed like your permission to use a short excerpt of this blog in our new book due out in two weeks. Hopefully, you will see this request in time.
Melissa on Tue 13 Sep 2011 at 22:56:54 I have tried to stand up to racism in the past when I have been around white people and I have either A. been ignored or B. been lectured that said comment or action wasnt racist, it really is more trouble than its worth mentioning prejudice or racism around most but not all white people.
Anon on Thu 6 Oct 2011 at 21:08:21 What if Amanda Knox was an American non-white woman? Would we have even heard about her case? Just a thought
crammasters on Thu 6 Oct 2011 at 23:25:30 Absolutely not in my opinion. The proof is just days before her (unethical) release, the system executed (murdered) a black man who all evidence pointed to his innocence. The white supremacy system is dedicated to demonstrating its contempt for non-white life and one of the ways is allowing whites to break the law and get away with it. I dont know if most folks are aware that Knox actually tried to pin the murder on a black man but fortunately, he was able to provide a solid alibi, Now, if she wasnt guilty, why would she attempt to frame someone else? thats not logical. In the book, Trojan Horse: Death of a Dark Nation, there are some chapters on the white female phenomenon, called the Dead White Womens Club and how the white supremacy system uses the white female damsel in distress to promote racism and false white victimization. You should check it out
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AJ on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 00:34:00 You know, as much as I have been disagreeing with you in other posts, I think youre dead on here, having experienced this myself on two occasions, on one of which the white girl made several racist comparisons on the negative similarities of Mexicans and aboriginal people, of which I am both. Just like here, when I called her out she started to cry, and I became the bad guy quicker than Barack Obama on the Bill OReilly show after his election, and bombarded with accusations ranging from overreaction, to ME being a racist for picking on her just because she was white.
Whatever on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 07:14:06 I agree. Its hard for white people to place themselves in the shoes of the black man. Those shoes are usually running off with a stolen television set.
Whatever on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 07:16:28 To make matters worse black men join the white women in their slandering of black women. And they know you better than white folks do. Not a good look for you.
Whatever on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 07:19:34 This blog is great. It has helped me to realize that its correct to hate black people. They ask for it. Now I know exactly why I have always distrusted them. Give them the Internet and they quickly expose themselves.
Anon @ Whatever:
on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 13:41:49
I know youve been IDd as a sockpuppet, but I must respond. I feel so sorry for you, but on the other hand I am grateful for your comments. Your words confirm many things that are posted on this blog.
MinneB on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 14:30:17 White womans tears- yeah, I know this one too. During a high school reunion, surrounded by white people sharing their high school experiences, the topic was about a popular girls clothing store in town, and how fun it was to work there. I interjected a separate and well known reality of the young black girls of the same community, that was the white owner (who was also a part of this circle of reminiscing) didnt hire non-white girls to work at the store. The white woman standing closest to me(wife and now co-owner), burst into tears (as if on cue) and ran to the bathroom. Back in the day, when I was more confused, I followed her into the bathroom to see if she was alright. She told me: I didnt think anybody knew! The reaction by the circle was swift and threatening. A person would have thought I punched her in the nose. I was asked to leave the dinner when I came from being in the bathroom.
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Lara on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 14:49:26 Minne, If it is so difficult for you to get along with white people why dont you just avoid them? It seems like you are always seeking them out and then stirring up trouble.
Lara didnt hire non-white girls to work at the store
on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 14:51:12
I have a feeling the fact that he didnt hire you had more to do with your unpleasant personality than you being black.
proudchocolategirl on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 17:06:53 @ minnieI can relate to your experienceI was denied a job at a pharmacy after being told a lie that they werent hiring graduating seniors, only to be told LATER very nonchalantly by one of my good friends who worked at the pharmacy and whove i have known my whole life and who is also a white female that her boss kept hiring all these seniors, and then I came to realize that I had never seen a black person working in that pharmacy. Later my mother had a bad experience at the pharmacy. the woman who worked at the pharmacy would not help my mother, she wouldnt even look at her, the only person who helped her was my friend. So, I know its a racist work place and Im not the only black person who has felt that way. Dont pay any attention to Laras commentI really didnt get that you had an unpleasant personality from your comments. I think shes probably just falling into the black sapphire stereotype. @ Lara I find its common for people to blame the victim of racismits a way to avoid acknowledging that racism existsa common tactic that people (usually racist people, not saying ur a racist ) of all colors like to use.
proudchocolategirl on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 17:08:48 and Lara, how can you avoid a group that you have to interact with on a daily basis because theyre one of the largest ethnic groups in the country? Its easy for some white people to avoid Black people, much more difficult for some black people (who want to) to avoid white people.
Lara on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 17:59:30 and Lara, how can you avoid a group that you have to interact with on a daily basis because theyre one of the largest ethnic groups in the country? Minne belongs to a mostly white church and attended a mostly white high school reunion. These are two places there is no reason to go to unless one wants to. I dont go out of my way to avoid black people, because I dont find it difficult to get along with them and I dont take offense to every little thing they say. Minne seems to be much more emotionally fragile than I am and she should therefore try to minimize her actions with whites. We seem to really rub her the wrong way.
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I know a black woman who has worked at a pharmacy for many years, one that I was fired from because I wasnt the best worker, so I dont want to hear about how pharmacies wont hire black people.
strangevisitor72 on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 18:10:13 That damn Lara cracks me up so much. I swear she,he, it is a freaking comic. But for the life of me why dont people just ignore the TROLLS!?! To answer my own question I guess as proudchocolategirl points out, their sheer numbers DEMAND that we MUST interact with them. No matter where we find ourselves real world or virtual world:( so sad
MinneB on Tue 1 Nov 2011 at 21:39:34 @proudchocolaitgirlYouthful realizations of racism white supremacy are difficult, especially when youve been spoon-fed equality kumbaya cookies, and integration mumbo-jumbo kool-aid.
proudchocolategirl on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 06:22:36 I know a black woman who has worked at a pharmacy for many years, one that I was fired from because I wasnt the best worker, so I dont want to hear about how pharmacies wont hire black people. LOL, I didnt say pharmacies wont hire black people, I said SPECIFIC PHARMACY in SPECIFIC SCENARIO WOULDNT HIRE BLACK PEOPLEsince ur an expert on interpreting peoples words
proudchocolategirl @ lara:
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 06:23:15
once againI see youre avoiding racism, I speak about a racist situation instead of addressing the racist sitution, you ignore it all together
brothawolf on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 08:36:26 Im wondering what working and getting fired from a Pharmacy has to do with white womens tears unless Lara is actually a white woman, and she is crying that she got laid off.
Lara I see youre avoiding racism
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 11:32:16
Not really. I havent really seen any good examples of it yet. I do sympathize with black people who are having trouble finding work. Honestly, Id be reluctant to hire a black person if I thought any time there was a disagreement between us it would be turned into a racial issue. Unfortunately blacks have a reputation of being problem employees and this is a shame for the ones who really are good workers.
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MinneB @ EveryoneAre people learning anything from Laras comments and responses?
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 13:09:58
Herneith on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:01:42 Are people learning anything from Laras comments and responses? Yes, oxygen thievery should be made into a felony over in the States.
abagond on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:21:50 I have been wondering if Lara is a troll. Sometimes I am sure of it. But then sometimes I think she is just profoundly clueless. That is what I am thinking now, especially with that last comment.
abagond @ Lara:
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:25:03
What percentage of White Americans do you think are racist? What percentage of blacks? How can you tell if someone is racist? What is your definition of racism?
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:34:19 abagond, I have no idea, I dont know other peoples thoughts and white people dont discuss race with each other much. Im not even sure I know how to define racist. I can only comment on specific situations and tell you if I think someones behavior is right or wrong. It isnt black or white, it is mostly shades of grey. Ill say one thing, though, after reading on here I realize black and white people often see things very differently.
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:35:56 Thats why I wanted specific examples of racism because I feel I can comment better on those.
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:41:13 I do think the word racism has been so overused and misused it is starting to lose its power to shame white people.
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:44:46 Abagond, What do you disagree with in my last comment? Im genuinely curious.
abagond @ Lara
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on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:45:09
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MinnieB gave you two excellent examples of racism, the pharmacy one on this thread and the Boy Scout one on another thread. In one case a pharmacy admits it does not hire blacks and in the other a church has Boy Scout troops segregated by race. Those are clear cases of racism, no mind reading required. Nothing is being imagined. How are they NOT cases of racism?
abagond Lara said: I see youre avoiding racism
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:52:25
Not really. I havent really seen any good examples of it yet. I do sympathize with black people who are having trouble finding work. Honestly, Id be reluctant to hire a black person if I thought any time there was a disagreement between us it would be turned into a racial issue. Unfortunately blacks have a reputation of being problem employees and this is a shame for the ones who really are good workers. Not hiring blacks because of x is racist. Not only is it discrimination, it judges people according to their race. and not case by case.
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 14:52:28 I didnt get the impression anyone at the pharmacy admitted they didnt hire blacks, I think Minne came to that conclusion on her own because they didnt hire her. As far as the boys scout troops go, it didnt involve black people so I dont understand why a black woman would even care. For all we know it was the Hmong boys that wanted separate troops. If the Hmong boys were the ones who wanted to be in a separate troop would you guys consider it racism?
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:06:05 Hispanics are now seen as the best employees for a lot of jobs. It is hard for even white people to compete with them.
crammasters on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:06:08 I think there is a lot to be learned from Lara, if black people would simply accept that she represents the typical (regardless of income or education) white person in a white supremacy system. Lara is the RULE, not the exception, and she will NEVER snitch on other white people even when she knows the truth: that white people practice racism against blacks and other non-whites on a DAILY basis, and that white people know they benefit from the mistreatment of non-whites and that is why they pretend to be falsely innocence and clueless. No, Lara is not clueless or ignorant. She is well aware of what it means to be white, and what it means to NOT be white which is why she is quick to throw around black stereotypes and insults. This is something she learned at an early age because white people often negatively discuss black people (when no black people are in the room). This is WHO SHE IS.
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The day that black people accept what should be by now a proven FACT that white people collectively are INHERENTLY racist, and that racism is as much a genetic and psychological problem (illness) for whites as it is a social and political and economic reality/tragedy for blacks, thats the day we MIGHT get the guts and the wisdom to really do something about it and them. I find too many black people (and Im not addressing anyone in particular) are so eager (and desperate) to believe that Lara is not typical of white people that we ignore the undeniable evidence that white people GLOBALLY have no intention of stopping the brutal and barbaric practice of subjugating and slaughtering people who are not white aka practicing white supremacy. Katrina should have been a wake-up call for all the black doubters as to the kind of racial progress blacks have made here in America. Oscar Grants murder at the hands of a toy cop who walks out of prison after serving less than two years should be a wake-up call for blacks in america. Wesley Snipes sitting in federal prison for a misdemeanor tax conviction should be a wake-up call for blacks in america. The fact that CNN reported that it was easier for a white man with a criminal record to get a job than a black man with a college degree should be a wake-up call for blacks in america. The gentrification of countless American cities as increasingly (and deliberately) impoverished and some formerly working class and middle class blacks are being pushed out should be a wake-up for blacks in america. Black farmers who are still waiting for justice, while wealthy white farmers were just given millions of taxpayer dollars for being white and wealthy should be a wakeup call for blacks in America, That fact that a black man (Troy Davis) was just executed in Georgia for a crime it was obvious he did not commit while the long arm of American (in)justice reached across the ocean and freed a white female (Amanda Knox) who appeared from the evidence to be guilty of a murder in Italy should be a wake-up call for blacks in America. and the list is too long for this blog. Laras posts shouldnt raise any eyebrows or blood pressure. Its what we should come to expect from racist man and racist woman since we have been dealing with them for over 500 years. It should be obvious by now (for Gs sake) that they are not going to change who they are. Its time for us to accept hard, cold reality that black people will have to do the changing, that we have to change how we think, act, and speak when it comes to white people and that means what ever it means. (sorry about the long post)
abagond @ Lara Do only Jews care about the Holocaust? Why or why not?
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:06:57
At least in America, you can be pretty sure that any white person who is prejudiced against Jews, Latinos, Asians or Native Americans is going to be racist against blacks too, probably even more so.
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So, yes, there is good reason for a black woman to be concerned about the anti-Asian racism of her church. AND even if she were white she should STILL be concerned for the simple reason that racism is wrong.
abagond @ Lara: MinnieB said:
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:08:07
I interjected a separate and well known reality of the young black girls of the same community, that was the white owner (who was also a part of this circle of reminiscing) didnt hire non-white girls to work at the store. The white woman standing closest to me(wife and now co-owner), burst into tears (as if on cue) and ran to the bathroom. Back in the day, when I was more confused, I followed her into the bathroom to see if she was alright. She told me: I didnt think anybody knew! The owners wife, right there, is admitting to the pharmacys racist hiring.
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:11:34 Id like to hear the other side of the story. If the store absolutely refuses to hire qualified black people then yes that is discrimination.
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:12:49 How do we know it wasnt the Hmong boy scout troop that wanted to be separate?
crammasters @ Lara Just keep being you
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:14:40
you just might succeed in waking up some of the people who still believe it is possible for leopards to change their spots. (Of course, you and I know leopards enjoy being leopards and wouldnt change their spots or their ways even if they could
abagond @ Lara
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:15:06
We know the Hmongs did not want to be separated because whites are so defensive about it. If the Hmongs requested a separate troop, then there would be no reason to be defensive.
Lara
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:16:54
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you can be pretty sure that any person who is not black who is prejudiced against Jews, Latinos, Asians or Native Americans is going to be racist against blacks too, probably even more so. Then why doesnt everyone who isnt a white gentile bond together and take us out?
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:20:02 We know the Hmongs did not want to be separated because whites are so defensive about it My guess it was the Hmong that wanted it that way, but this decent white man was willing to take the heat.
MinneB Points of clarity regarding examples: The Pharmacy/ proudchocolaitgirl. The segregated boy scouts & The clothing store/MinneB.
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:27:23
As far as the boys scout troops go, it didnt involve black people so I dont understand why a black woman would even care. Racism isnt about black people. Its about white peoplebehaving very badly.
abagond @ MinnieB Thanks. My mistake.
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:29:15
crammasters Actually, there is only one kind of racism white supremacy
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:33:16
For the sake of clarification (and of course, anyone is free to agree or disagree), Id like to post my definition of racism: For one group to practice racism that group must have MORE POWER than another group.Since whites control ALL the major areas of human activity in America housing, education, health, entertainment, economics, politics, law, and religion it is accurate to define all racism as white supremacy. White people are the only group in America with the POWER to discriminate (deprive or punish other ethnic groups), and the systems and institutions to maintain the imbalance of power. For example, rich people are more powerful than poor people. Rich people have the POWER to discriminate against poor people by depriving them of income, promotions, jobs, housing, land, justice, and any other rights if they choose to do so. Racism is not empty rhetoric (words) or mindless emotion. Racism is social, economic, and political POWER.
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In America, whites have the POWER to discriminate against blacks (and other non-whites) by depriving them of income, promotions, jobs, housing, land, justice, and any other rights if they choose to do so. It doesnt matter that some whites are poorer than some blacks. In all things and in all places in America, whites are collectively more powerful than blacks are collectively. This imbalance of (white) power creates the opportunity and the ability to practice racism against non-whites. Even when a black person mistreats a white person, that is not racism or black supremacy because black supremacy does not exist. If black people were collectively more powerful than whites collectively, blacks would have the power to practice racism. Logically speaking, that would mean the end of white supremacy because only one thing or person can be supreme (the highest ranking) at a time. If blacks and whites had equal power and resources, there could be no black supremacy OR white supremacy. Our ability (power) to discriminate against (mistreat) each other would be canceled out, leaving only two options: coexist peacefully or destroy each other. Black people can mistreat white people but that is limited to ONLY what that one black person can physically do to that individual white person. Black people do not have the institutional, or police, or social, or economic, or political, or media engines to collectively affect the lives of white people collectively which is why we cannot practice racism OR be racist. For those who disagree with this definition or feel that black people can be racist, I always ask this question: Name one thing that black people as a group have stopped white people as a group from doing that they had a RIGHT to do? For example, denying them the right to work, own a home, live in a certain area, get a fair trial, an education, or use any public facility. I have yet to have anyone ever answer that question thanks for allowing me to voice my opinion, i really enjoy your excellent blog.
Matari on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:34:56 I can only comment on specific situations and tell you if I think someones behavior is right or wrong. It isnt black or white, it is mostly shades of grey. Ill say one thing, though, after reading on here I realize black and white people often see things very differently. http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/07/12/james-baldwin-on-deluded-white-people/ Baldwin certainly knew what he was talking about! White author, Lillian Smiths book, Strange Fruit, describes in great detail how and why white people see things very differently. The word is that she does it so painfully well, whites themselves cant/wont go near that book, much less offer a comment on it. My guess it was the Hmong that wanted it that way, but this decent white man was willing to take the heat.
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Whiteness is demonic! It is a religion ..like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead mens bones and everything unclean.
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 15:35:05 All this bringing in people of other races is cowardly. You are just trying to get them to fight your battles for you. All those other races dont have the history African Americans have.
Herneith Lara is not typical of white people
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:17:18
Actually, Lara is par for the course in my experience, albeit in varying degrees. I have yet to met any white anti-racist(self-proclaimed) in real life. Who knows? Perhaps Lara is throwing out these trite answers on purpose to illustrate this white mindset. To quote my Granny; No-one is that stupid! Lara!, the anti-racist crusader! Perhaps she is this obtuse!
crammasters @ Herneith
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:35:38
re: anti-racists heres an excerpt from the book, Trojan Horse: Death of a Dark Nation Q: Do non-racist whites benefit from White Supremacy? A: ALL whites benefit from white privilege in a white supremacy system, even if they are not practicing racism at that moment. It does not matter if they are rich or poor; or whether they admit there is such a thing as white privilege. Anyone who is classified as white in a white supremacy system will always have advantages over someone who is not. Just as a black person in a black supremacy system (if one existed) would have advantages over someone who is not black. Q: Arent some white people opposed to racism? A: Only if they are saying and doing something to oppose it. For example, John Brown, a white male, encouraged armed insurrection by slaves as a means to end slavery, and as a result, was charged with treason and hanged. However, that does not mean John Brown did not practice racism at an earlier time OR would not have practiced it at a later time had he lived. Q: Arent white anti-racists opposed to racism? The self-anointed, white anti-racist activist offers little more than lip service. They sacrifice nothing, take no risks, and reap more financial rewards than the black activists fighting in the (real) trenches. The white anti-racist actually creates more confusion by creating the false illusion that the devastated black masses can be liberated from racism by sitting in a church, auditorium, or conference room listening to a white person who is still enjoying his or her white privileges making anti-racism speeches. It is unlikely that the same white anti-racist activists who profit from writing books and giving speeches about racism have any real desire (or intent) to destroy the same white supremacy system that allows them to oppose it without losing a single white privilege.
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There may be whites who are sincere about replacing the system of white supremacy with a system of justice, but that number is so statistically small, it is insignificant. (i hope this post is constructive in this dialog about racism and white people)
abagond @ sepultura13 & Bulanik:
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:37:20
Please do not call commenters it. Please use he or she. If you do not know the sex, just pick one and let them correct you if necessary. That is less insulting than it.
sepultura13 on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:45:03 My apologies. To me, a troll is a thing. In the dictionary, that classifies as it but, since you wish to coddle them, I will refer to them all as he from now on hopefully thats the proper option.
crammasters on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:46:06 I agree, Laras posts reek of deliberate, CULTIVATED (and phony) obtuseness which seem to be designed to keep black posters on this blog going around and around in a circle chasing their own tails and trying to convince her of what she already knows is true that white people run it that white people own it and that white peoples biggest Wizard of Oz trick is to convince blacks and non-whites that they are not being mistreated by white people I call this the Dont Snitch On Other White People syndrome where white people will deliberately deny that racism is going on even when they know and/or are participating in the practice of it for all we know, Laras on someones payroll and is being paid to do just that disrupt the logical flow of black exchange over how to understand and solve the problem of (white) racism. keep in mind, the internet is a strange, mysterious place.full of spies and saboteurs where people are paid to disrupt any honest or serious dialogue about racism by blacks who are trying to fight our way out of it
Lara black supremacy system (if one existed) Plenty of African countries favor their own citizens.
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:50:55
Demerera @cranmasters
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:51:18
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No, Lara is not clueless or ignorant. She is well aware of what it means to be white, and what it means to NOT be white which is why she is quick to throw around black stereotypes and insults. Correct. I have challenged her so called white POV on one of the other blogs and have posed questions asking what she understands about racism and examples therein which have been met with silence. Comments such as:Abagond We know the Hmongs did not want to be separated because whites are so defensive about it Lara My guess it was the Hmong that wanted it that way, but this decent white man was willing to take the heat. And this proudchocolategirl I see youre avoiding racism Lara Not really. I havent really seen any good examples of it yet. I do sympathize with black people who are having trouble finding work. Honestly, Id be reluctant to hire a black person if I thought any time there was a disagreement between us it would be turned into a racial issue. Unfortunately blacks have a reputation of being problem employees and this is a shame for the ones who really are good workers. demonstrate that Lara sees the White POV as the only point of view when presented with a Black POV. Despite continually calling for more examples of situations and saying that she hasnt seen any good examples, of racism, she is still able to find enough credence in the given examples to support and align herself in these instances, with the White POV and thus effectively trying to undermine the comments and the commenters therein. Yet she brushes over requests to define her understanding of racism and the context of her understanding therein. Often, as in the example above, she purports to have some comprehension of the situation, even going so far as to empathise whilst ending her comment, as usual with her own narrow rationale. Meanwhile affirmative action is uncalled for in her world when a black person is trying to be proactive about a situation when they have been discriminated against. But when Lara continually makes barbed and and bigoted comments in response its ok. This is ok of course because Lara is a so called white woman and they are not agressive like black people or women in particular. Go figure!
sepultura13
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on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:51:51
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@ crammasters: Exactly. Ignore the man behind the curtain I am the GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ!!!!! Thats pretty much the gist of it!
crammasters @ sepultura13
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:53:14
I used to spend hours dialoguing (battling) with whites over racism and I was amazed at how they refused to see what I know they had to see Thats when it dawned on me that they (white people) dont see the benefits of seeing or telling the truth about racism and that the vast majority are dedicated to maintaining this system of white privilege/white supremacy. That meant (to me) that I had to stop wasting my time trying to convince white people of anything and spend more time understanding this system and trying to reach other black people about that understanding. It is time (in my opinion) that black people stop hoping and praying and working so hard to change the hearts of white people and face the fact that they have a huge hole in their hearts and spirits when it comes to anyone who is not white. there is too much evidence out here for any of us to believe otherwise
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 16:53:29 @crammasters The self-anointed, white anti-racist activist offers little more than lip service. Good point.
crammasters @ Lara
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 17:02:16
African countries favoring their own is NOT black supremacy. If the French favor other French people is that French supremacy? In addition, African countries are under attack by the European white supremacy system as I write this and have been for hundreds of years, so whatever is happening in Africa is largely a result of WHITE imperialism, WHITE colonialism, and genocide conducted by WHITE people. Witness the recent murder of the Libyan leader by the white West (not the so-called rebels) Lets be logical here. You read the definition of white supremacy and black supremacy. So let me poise this question directly to you and see if you are capable of a clean, straight forward answer: If black supremacy exists (in the U.S.)
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Name one thing that black people as a group have stopped white people as a group from doing that they had a RIGHT to do? For example, denying them the right to work, own a home, live in a certain area, get a fair trial, an education, or use any public facility. Im looking forward to your answer
Lara We can fired from our jobs if we say something racist.
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 17:05:50
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 17:16:44 For example, denying them the right to work, own a home, live in a certain area, get a fair trial, an education, or use any public facility. For the most part blacks havent been denied these things either. Blacks were restricted at one time from living in white neighborhoods, but there were plenty of black neighborhoods so it wasnt as big a deal as it is sometimes made out to be.
Demerera @Lara cranmasters If black supremacy exists (in the U.S.)
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 17:29:49
Name one thing that black people as a group have stopped white people as a group from doing that they had a RIGHT to do? We can fired from our jobs if we say something racist So are you saying that WP have the right to be racist and that BP have prevented them from doing this?
Matari crammasters
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 17:39:01
Laras posts reek of deliberate, CULTIVATED (and phony) obtuseness which seem to be designed to keep black posters on this blog going around and around in a circle chasing their own tails and trying to convince her of what she already knows is true. and then this crammasters @ Lara Name one thing that black people as a group have stopped white people as a group from doing that they had a RIGHT to do? For example, denying them the right to work, own a home, live in
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a certain area, get a fair trial, an education, or use any public facility. Im looking forward to your answer ************************************************ @ Crammaters I agree pretty much with what youve stated on this thread! But I must ask, why are YOU trying to reason/contend with Lara after you called out her deliberate phoniness? No one ever beats the devil (metaphorically speaking) at his/her own game where all the rules and conventions are stacked in his/her favor. You have already exposed the lie by revealing the truth.
Demerera Discrimination definition
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 17:42:21
treating a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin colour, religion, sex, etc. racial/sex/age discrimination Lara Id like to hear the other side of the story. If the store absolutely refuses to hire qualified black people then yes that is discrimination. If as you say, discrimination has taken place here, what kind of discrimination has taken place? I am intrigued to know how you will answer considering that you have already stated that you didn think it was racist!
Lara So are you saying that WP have the right to be racist Yes, as long as they are not imposing on your rights.
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 17:47:51
Lara on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 17:50:39 I think its called employment discrimination. Im not exactly sure how one would go about proving it however.
Lara Im pretty sure Ive been the victim of it myself.
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 17:51:49
sepultura13 @ Bulanik:
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 18:10:27
I was under the impression that calling a troll an it is much more respectful than being a troll
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on blog, continuing to derail important topics. Go figure
Demerera Lara So are you saying that WP have the right to be racist Yes, as long as they are not imposing on your rights
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 18:23:40
Ok, so if you are an employer and you are a self confessed racist and your racism manifests itself by vetting all applicants and disregarding those from applicants who are or appear to be POC or refusing to employ POC if they slip through the net and manage to get an interview regardless of whether they are equally or even more qualified than say the other white candidates is this not an example of imposing on the rights of the said POC? I think its called employment discrimination. Im not exactly sure how one would go about proving it however. What is employment discrimination? Come on Lara, youre clutching at straws now.
abagond @ sepultura13 & Bulanik: I deleted your it comments.
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 18:26:11
dave on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 19:20:25 @mitari only a sith speaks in absolutes (star wars)whiteness is demonic see I know what you are doing you are trying to separate John the nice guy down the street who happens to be white, who is obviously not demonic, and whiteness as an ideology which you percieve to be evil. the problem with that is whie alot of (not all) black people see your hypethetical neighbor John they will lump him in to your whiteness is demonic definition(especially kids) and other non enlightened blacks and call John himself demonic. And lets face it it you destory whiteness you need to in turn destory blackness as well
dave I really dont spell that bad some of my keyboard keys are messed the problem with that is when alot and lets face it if you destroy
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 19:33:46
dave on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 19:41:07 I was wrong, hate is wrong, and you mitari and alot of others on here are wrong. period. the end
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Hannu L Thank god Im not an american white woman. Phew!
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 19:56:47
Matari @ dave
on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 20:06:57
the problem with that is whie alot of (not all) black people see your hypethetical neighbor John they will lump him in to your whiteness is demonic A lot of black people (non enlightened????) are NOT going to see John, the nice white guy down the street, as demonic because I (or whomever) state that white supremacy aka whiteness is demonic. Lets get this straight. If someone or something displays OBVIOUS demonic tendencies, then any astute and bold observer that isnt hampered by perceived religiously/politically incorrect speech is going to call/say it as it is. Perhaps you need to explain precisely what you mean by non-enlightened black people so Im sure were on the same wavelength. Im not sure but I think Im seeing some exaggerated FEAR on your part which isnt surprising given how overwhelmingly RACIST the racist/fear based atmosphere in America is. Are you as a white person afraid of a black backlash to the never-ending oppression? And lets face it it you destory whiteness you need to in turn destory blackness as well Whiteness CREATED the falsehood that you refer to as blackness. I have no problem or issue with BOTH of these false man-made BS constructs going away.
Hannu Lipponen on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 20:15:29 To be more serious, I had never heard of this phenomenon. Of course some women use tears as means of manipulation. I used to work in a greeting card company, and heard that the two female bosses of marketing and design (where I worked) pretty much fought in meetings by trying to out cry each other. But using it in a racist manner is nasty, just nasty. So low. Stand on your own two feet, dont beg for pity. No offense, but sometimes Im just so happy that Im not american. Your society is seriously ffckd up. But I do find all this very fascinating and educating.
AJ on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 22:05:51 Ok wow, to the guy who said racism is an inherent genetic and psychological illness in whites, you disgust me. Im not white, nor have any special love for them, but saying that someone is destined to be a certain way because of their genes is RACIST. You didnt imply it, you plainly stated it. White racism as we know it today did not begin until the 19th century with race based science and eugenics. And despite whatever bitter craziness you hold in your head, whites are racist because THEY HAVE THE POWER TO BE. Theoretically, all events roughly the same, were it Africa that gave rise to the mighty colonial powers of the 15th-20th centuries, than white Europe would be plagued with post colonial civil wars, corruption and other lingering effects of racist invaders. And
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America would be a black nation built on the back of white slavery. The white culture is like a leader with too much power, lack of opposition to his control breeds arrogance, callousness, and the sociopathic behaviors that result from that. In short, it is power that gives rise to abuse of power. This in no way excuses racism and oppression, as no matter HOW it came about, IT STILL HAPPENED. Just like you(crammasters etc.) have more of a reason to see whites in this way than skinheads do to feel this way towards you, it doesnt change the fact that you are engaging in genetic determinism, aka racism. Im not defending white peoples actions at all, they are dispicable, and trying to justify them is the station of white racists in denial and rented negroes as you call them, but to subscribe to a belief that says a newborn child, white or otherwise, is inescapably going to be, or even more prone to being racist or anything else sinply because of his DNA makes me nauseous, and anyone with that belief about should be ashamed. Whites have done, and are still doing just as much to my race as they are to yours, dont try to feed me some trite you dont understand bullshit, Ive heard every justification for this ludicrous theory about whites from my father, ITS STILL RACISM.
GoldFire on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 23:47:46 Lara and those like her have no interest/use for the system of government we all know and love as democracy in light of the probability that POC might potentially benefit from such an arrangement. They and their ilk, for all their screaming and shouting against the big bad federal government are more interested in installing white autocracies which not only take into account the current racial hierarchy that is white supremacy but also re-introduces the most vile and brutal aspects of its machinations in order to keep the niggers (anybody who isnt white) in their place. What I find laughable about this POV (if it can be called that) is the pretentious underpinnings upon which it rests. Essentially, it consists of the idea that whites are the only people whove shown initiative/interest in earning their way through the world via their own merits. Whilst the rest of us, inherently dysfunctional coloureds, have not only shown a great disregard for doing so, but indeed have always harbored deep seated ambitions to be taken care of by them/somebody/ anybody other than ourselves. Outside of its historical inaccuracy and present day white karfaffull regarding their own economic plight world wide, the astounding intellectual dishonesty it must take in order to ignore the quandary they invariably find themselves in when trying to argue a point of view which inherently requires that white people be capable of achieving all manner of success despite any and all objective odds stacked up against them (which at this juncture, in regards to race, seems to be a system geared, if not successfully, to upholding democratic ideals of civil rights) whilst simultaneously caterwauling about this that and the other parts of government not aiding and abetting them in bringing their titular merit based societies into being is mind boggling to say the least if not outright bloody hysterical. In other words dear fascists, you cant on one hand contemptuously sneer and spittle that people should be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps irrespective of any and all circumstances they face and were it not for meddlesome government they could, and then in the same breath wail and gnash teeth about that very same government not intervening on your behalf in order for you to be able to manage to succeed. ?????????
dave on Wed 2 Nov 2011 at 23:57:54 Matari, I didnt say most black people , and if it wasnt clear I meant some, i even mentioned kids, to stress that. I think most people on here get what you are saying but some wont
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Its easy to get it confused. I would go further to say that MOST white people may get offended and not here what you are saying, and the fact that you confused what I wrote makes me think that you dont totally get it either, and you may hate a white person before you get to know his as well.
dave I guess you thought I was trying to question intellegence.
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 00:30:32
how could you do that on this blog, you guys are like all english majors on here.
Lara on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 00:32:43 @AJ Whites have done, and are still doing just as much to my race as they are to yours What are you? Are you a Native American?
Lara on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 00:36:26 To some degree American whites do feel an obligation to the descendants of slaves. When you guys go and join up with every other person who isnt completely white and cry racism, theres just too many of you to please. We cant do it.
brothawolf on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 02:48:26 When you guys go and join up with every other person who isnt completely white and cry racism, theres just too many of you to please. We cant do it. Okay, Ill bite. Two things: 1. Yes you (white people) can. You just dont want to out of fear of losing your comfort zones. 2. From my experience white people dont want to please us, but they LOVE to be pleased by us.
sepultura13 @ brothawolf: Okay, Ill bite. Two things:
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 04:05:59
1. Yes you (white people) can. You just dont want to out of fear of losing your comfort zones. 2. From my experience white people dont want to please us, but they LOVE to be pleased by us. Nailed it!!! Especially #2in more ways than one!
dave on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 04:34:52 and to get back on subject, womens tears can work on most people whether she is black , white,
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asian, native, or mixed, or other. I think more depends on how good looking she is on how much the tears will work. Now that isnt always true either, because if you saw a 75 year old lady crying you would have alot of sympathy, but how many women at that age are faking, almost none. but let me give you a reverse example, which I know you guys never want to hear. Lets say a black girl and a white girl dont like each other, nothing to do with race, they just dont like each others personality, and lets say it gets real personal and they both work for the same company and the black girl is smoking hot. like 10 times better looking than the white girl. the boss is white.The black girl goes in his office with fake tears giving a false tale of how hateful the white girl is and even fibs on some fake racial slurs that were said. Do you think that it would have an impact?
dave on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 04:56:09 at sepultura are you talking about the art of making love, because if thats the case it takes two to tango.
dave at bulanik ok and what if also the white woman was not as cool take looks out of it, like whoppi goldberg vs. rosie odonell
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 05:12:57
Matari @ Dave
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 05:44:30
I would go further to say that MOST white people may get offended and not here what you are saying, Most (if not all) white people ARE racist to some degree. Why would I care if the members of the oppressor race are offended by me, the one whos being mistreated? WHITENESS IS DEMONIC!!!! And I will keep saying this until whiteness is no longer demonic (highly doubtful!), or until whiteness ceases to exist! My concern is not about whether everyone who reads this will understand. Some will get it, some wont. Theres always someone thatll confuse the issue or WONT understand something or another. (Is it not like this in the bubble you exist in??) Im not here to serve white peoples interests, or to protect their privileges/feelings! If the truth hurts/offends them, then they should stop doing the actions that causes the embarrassment/pain /offense.. Do not confuse truth telling with hate. I guess you thought I was trying to question intellegence.
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No. I simply repeated YOUR WORDS, non enlightened blacks. I didnt think anything, hence the question marks. how could you do that on this blog, you guys are like all english majors on here. No, were not all English majors here. We simply dont have the luxury/privilege that many whites enjoy, writing just any ole way and still be taken seriously.. like some here.
dave I get it more white girls tend to be drama queens.
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 05:45:15
I asked about a reverse situation where the black girl was being sneaky using the tears in HER advantage.
dave on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 06:03:48 ok matiri, most of the white people who visit here arent the type you are mad at. the people at the top dont care about this sort of thing, they are too busy adding up thier money and dont care about blogs such as this. so the white people who are here are people man. do you know that most white people in the south that arent recent immigrants can claim up to 20% african anscestory. I cant becuase my peoples came through ellis island. but you never know.
Lara on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 11:53:24 @BrothaWolf, Yes you (white people) can. You just dont want to out of fear of losing your comfort zones. And what are you going to do in return for us? What reason is there for white people to keep giving blacks so much? Its obvious you cant stand us.
Herneith on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 14:40:36 I used to spend hours dialoguing (battling) with whites over racism and I was amazed at how they refused to see what I know they had to see That was your first mistake. Its a waste of oxygen and time. I learned this at a very young age. You are preaching to the converted. Like I said, I have never met a white anti-racist(openly proclaimed to all and sundry, in real life). I have read many of their tomes and reams of stuff online. Funny, they are good at pontificating online but do-not seemingly put their money where their mouth is. If they are doing something it isnt that apparent for whatever excuse they wish to offer as to why it isnt more disseminated in society at large.
proudchocolategirl @ Larablacks and people of color, do not have unity
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 14:42:40
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Matari on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 15:48:05 Funny, they are good at pontificating online but do-not seemingly put their money where their mouth is. The more prominent white anti-racists are good at pontificating online and off while RECEIVING a good amount of MONEY for books and appearances where they mouth pretty much the same things black people have been saying for hundreds of years but for profit. I find it peculiar/odd that racism not only BENEFITS whites at large, but also some of those anti-racists that are seemingly against it. WHITENESS IS DEMONIC
Lara blacks and people of color, do not have unity
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 15:52:53
That makes sense. Hispanics dont have the history African Americans have. They dont seem to have much in common either.
MK82 @Lara
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 16:04:04
That makes sense. Hispanics dont have the history African Americans have. They dont seem to have much in common either. Tell that to Afro-Latinos
Herneith @Matari, or according to Dave, Mitiri:
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 16:09:36
I think its obscene that these so-called anti-racist you refer to profit from books and lectures,whilst as you stated, the message has already been put out there by blacks for generations in some form or other. I bought a Tim wise book, on the advice of others here and noticed this. Then I thought, this has been iterated before! I saw a video of this guy Wise giving a speech to a black audience. It was as if they needed this white man to validate what they should have known, or perhaps already did. Anywho, that was the first and last foray into spending money on white ant-racist literature. I would rather spend my money elsewhere such as a handbag, Id get more practical use out of the handbag than any rehashed advice they give. Besides, you need a receptive white audience, which many of these anti-racist don havet. Preaching to the converted doesnt count.
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Lara on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 16:13:26 I would rather spend my money elsewhere such as a handbag, Id get more practical use out of the handbag than any rehashed advice they give. I feel the exact same way. Im not going to fault Tim for trying to make a living, but it isnt what Im interested in reading.
Lara Tell that to Afro-Latinos Okay, if I ever meet one I will.
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 16:14:40
V-4 on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 16:29:54 Hispanics seem similiar in culture to Africans to me, by that I mean people of hispanic decent or african descent who live in the US. Not the same but similarities do exist. Though you could probably say the same thing about white people as compared to those two groups as well. And it seems unlikely youll meet very many afro-latinos, despite that being on some level actually the majority of their population if you go by the 1 Drop Rule. Beyond potential self-hate there or issues of self-identification, I would suspect they dont want to let it be known they have part black in them because they dont want to deal with having to go from the racism hispanics deal with to the racism black people deal with. That and with their population boom going on; in a few decades theyll be the majority and aligning with a minority they will probably want to opress pretty soon isnt going to work for any long term plans. As much as any one cultural/racial group has plans in that sense of the word.
Matari on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 17:13:33 Then I thought, this has been iterated before! I saw a video of this guy Wise giving a speech to a black audience. It was as if they needed this white man to validate what they should have known, or perhaps already did. A white US supreme court justice before our time ruled/stated something like, Negroes have no rights which the white man is bound to respect. Apparently, this dismissive and now de facto attitude extends to our words as well. If its not in the white collectives (or individuals) interest, the utterances of black people are summarily ignored or replayed/deciphered inaccurately on purpose so as to askew the meaning, This is a very convenient/useful method (of many) for maintaining white supremacy. Have we not seen this tactic deployed countless times on this blog, and even this thread?? This brings to mind Law Prof Derrick Bells second rule of the rules of racial standing which states: Not only are blacks complaints discounted, but black victims of racism are less effective witnesses than are whites, who are members of the oppressor class. This phenomenon reflects a widespread assumption that blacks, unlike whites, cannot be objective on racial issues and will favor their own no
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matter what. This deep seated belief fuels a continuing effort despite all manner of Supreme Court decisions intended to curb the practice to keep black people off juries in cases involving race. Black judges hearing racial cases are eyed suspiciously and sometimes asked to recuse themselves in favor of a white judge without those making the request even being aware of the paradox in their motions.
abagond on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 17:26:56 Justice Taney in Dred Scott v Sanford (1857) said that the Framers of the Constitution believed that blacks: had no rights which the white man was bound to respect; and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit. He was bought and sold and treated as an ordinary article of merchandise and traffic, whenever profit could be made by it. More: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h2933.html
abagond Matari said:
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 18:28:14
No, were not all English majors here. We simply dont have the luxury/privilege that many whites enjoy, writing just any ole way and still be taken seriously.. like some here I like how the only people who try to write in Ebonics on this blog are white trolls. And, yes, despite all the government testing to the contrary, it is mostly the whites on this blog who have the worst spelling and, especially, the worst reading skills.
Hannu Lipponen on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 18:51:08 In general, I agree that most white people have racist tendencies, especially those who have no experience of dealing with people of other ethnic origins. We hopefully grow and learn. The people I hate are the ones who dont want to learn.
JGreyden on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 19:21:49 @Abagond This sentence is often misunderstood as if Justice Taney deemed Black people unworthy of having rights when he was merely stating what he had observed so far. Of course, the whole thing horribly backfired.
crammasters on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 19:22:37 I agree that its a waste of oxygen and time dialoguing with Lara (and others like her) but sometimes I get sucked in It is almost a religious quest, so many black folks desoerately seeking out and uplifting good white people and white liberals like former prez Bill Clintion who black folks love and used to call the first black prez) despite the FACT that there was a ton of punitive legislation enacted against blacks
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during the Clinton Administration) The best scam in town is the (show) business of white anti-racism. Its like speaking against crack cocaine while enjoying legal immunity as you puff on your crack pipe. I believe the system tolerates and encourages and rewards white anti-racists like Tim Wise, for example, because they confuse the victimized black masses into thinking there are good white people. white folks like Tim Wise gets book deals and makes public appearances on TV but real anti-racists like Neely Fuller, Jr. and Dr. Welsing cant get a drop of attention from the white media. There is no way a system set up to benefit one group is going to be opposed OR voluntarily destroyed by that same group. Once we realize that, we will stop looking for good white people and good deeds by white people and instead, become better, wiser, more self-respecting, and more determined to defeat racism BLACK PEOPLE.
GoldFire @Lara
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 19:32:00
That makes sense. Hispanics dont have the history African Americans have. They dont seem to have much in common either. Perhaps not in North America, but on a colonial level the most assuredly have. If anything, the degree to which internalized racism effects the Hispanic community could be said to rival that of the African American. Evidenced by the majoritys efforts to constantly distance themselves from their indigenous and/or black roots, one neednt wonder the levels of savagery their ancestors endured under the imperial boot. Including Mexican Americans. Maybe abagond can do a post on it sometime. You know, a comparative study on the effects of posttraumatic stress and Stockholm syndrome on colonized peoples of the world. LOL, its probably gona have to be a series.
Lara on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 19:39:06 See JGreydens comment. Im not the least bit surprised the statement was taken out of context to support an agenda.
Lara on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 19:42:17 GoldFire, Our recent hispanic immigrants are by far favored by employers over black men (and white men) in many lines of work. Since you guys basically all have the same the same experience being oppressed by evil whites then Im guessing it wont cause any hard feelings.
Lara
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on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 19:45:34
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You know, a comparative study on the effects of posttraumatic stress and Stockholm syndrome on colonized peoples of the world. LOL, its probably gona have to be a series. These same people are probably suffering from fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome.
Demerera @JGreyden
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 19:48:28
This sentence is often misunderstood as if Justice Taney deemed Black people unworthy of having rights when he was merely stating what he had observed so far. Of course, the whole thing horribly backfired. Please explain
Demerera @Lara
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 19:50:25
See JGreydens comment. Im not the least bit surprised the statement was taken out of context to support an agenda. Is this kind of behaviour something you are familar with then having an agenda and taking things out of context to put forward a point?
crammasters on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 20:06:33 I would strongly suggest folks check out the Tim Wise interviews on C.O.W.S. on the Talkshoe shoe website youll have to google it since I dont have permission to post links on this blog. He has admitted on previous occasions that he is a white racist and Wise once called the research of Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, a medically trained psychiatrist and geneticist pseudo-scientific BS (he didnt abbreviate the word BS) aka negro science. I believe Mr. Wise is a phony and is pimping racism and black people to make a very good living and have based my opinion on the evidence and the interviews I have listened to scratch a white anti-racist and you will find a white person practicing a very refined form of racism/white supremacy
brothawolf on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 20:07:51 @BrothaWolf, Yes you (white people) can. You just dont want to out of fear of losing your comfort zones. And what are you going to do in return for us? What reason is there for white people to keep giving blacks so much? Its obvious you cant stand us. Lara, are you serious?!?!? Good grief! Youve just proven where your level of morality is!
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In the first place blacks have done EVERYTHING for whites since day-one not by choice, but by force. Yet, you still want more from us! White people have giving blacks only a half, of a tenth, of a quarter of less than a very microscopic little to even begin to make up for their past sins, and it was only because we spoke out, marched, and protested. I cant speak for every black person, but I will ask you this, even if that last statement is true, what damn good reason is there to stand you white folks?
crammasters on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 20:11:12 Absolutely agree, the only time Ive read ebonics on-line is when a white person is pretending to be a black person that says a lot about racism right there
GoldFire @Lara
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 20:19:02
Our recent hispanic immigrants are by far favored by employers over black men (and white men) in many lines of work. Keywords being favored by employers I gather? See also NAFTA. Since you guys basically all have the same the same experience being oppressed by evil whites then Im guessing it wont cause any hard feelings. Lara, are you seriously trying to pretend to care about black people? Lol. Get back to the African American community, when your ilk can manage not to retreat to the tried and true well if you dont like it here go back to Africa mantra whenever you feel your entitled position at the top of the food chain is being threatened by your fellow citizens,; a group of Americans that have been here for 500 years (give or take) longer than most of you no less. Shhh..
crammasters on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 20:21:26 of course white females get more empathy and sympathy from the white media and white people collectively. Thats obvious from the coverage of white female victims VS black female victims. The proof: ask the average person to name three white female crime victims who have become household names: Thats easy Natalie Holloway, Jon Benet Ramsey, Lacey Peterson Now, ask them to name ONE black female crime victim .SILENCE Black females are the most victimized females in American history, from 400 years of being the victims of ruthless white rapists and sadistic white female slave-owners to present day black females who are the most likely group in America to be raped but the LEAST likely to be believed or have their crimes investigated or the offenders prosecuted.
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Of course, black females tears do not have the same effect as white females tears. Dave, if you are a white man, you already knew the answer to your question
GoldFire @Lara
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 20:23:25
These same people are probably suffering from fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome No need to project your own medical issues onto others. Im sure they have enough problems in that department and others of their own to worry about without your help.
sam This still going on? Ok, I drop my few thoughts in as well.
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 20:31:44
I think so called anti-racist business in America is just like all the other Im a good person things mainly whites have in USA. It is there to make them feel good about themselves and to make some money for themselves. This reminds me of the Band Aid and Live Aid back in the 80s. All those pop stars singing for free! Get it? They did not take any money from those cheesy recordings, wow! They gave their effort for free! They did their best at the studio and later on shows. Oh how they toiled and worked! And their combine income that year alone could have saved the hungry millions many times over, not to mention that they could have built schools, payd for the salaries of thousands of doctors and teatchers for years to come etc. Nice that they sang and brought the hunger to our attention, but they could have just used their own frigging money right at once on the job. But that would have meant that they should have been serious about it. There have been very few white guys who have been serious about their anti-racist stance. Very few celebrities have been. Marlon Brando was one back in the days. Usually so called anti-racists are in it just because they want the blacks/others tell them how great they are and how much they are liked. They want to have a moral high ground among the whites: See, I am anti-racist and loved by those opressed ones! And it is very revealing that they lecture to the blacks how the blacks are opressed and how racism effects on them. Like, for real, man.
GoldFire @ Lara and by the by,
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 20:43:18
President Barack Obama says he backs immigration reform, announcing last month an initiative to ease deportation policies, but he has sent home more than 1 million illegal immigrants in 2 1/2 years on pace to deport more in one term than George W. Bush did in two. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44599016/ns/politics-more_politics/t/obama-set-outpace-
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bush-deportations/ Yeah, heres the difference between facts and opinions.
crammasters on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 21:08:48 @ AJ who said: Ok wow, to the guy who said racism is an inherent genetic and psychological illness in whites, you disgust me. Im not white, nor have any special love for them, but saying that someone is destined to be a certain way because of their genes is RACIST. You didnt imply it, you plainly stated it. #1 something about the way you said Im not white makes me suspect you might be a white person (but thats just my intuition talking, i could be wrong) #2 I stated what I believe is true. Let me clarify my statement when it comes to racism and non-white people whites appear to have an INHERENT, GENETIC tendency to lie, mistreat, rape and murder ANY and EVERYONE who is not white. The history of white people over the last 500+ years bears that out. I agree with Dr. Frances Cress Welsing who said: because of their numerical inadequacy and color inferiority, white people may have defensively developed an uncontrollable sense of hostility and aggression towards people of color, which has led to confrontations between the races throughout history. Repressing their own feelings of inadequacy, whites set about evolving a social, political, and economic structure to give blacks and other non-whites the appearance of being inferior. #3 from what I have seen, when it comes to non-white people, it is one lie after another, its lying about discovering America, lying about Native Americans being savages while whites were murdering, raping, stealing and committing genocide against Native Americans. The same is true about non-white people from Africans (the Transatlantic slave trade, American slavery, white imperialism, white colonialism, Elvis Presley imitating black people, to Creole (black slave) cooking transformed into (white) Cajun cooking, to American music pretending it didnt come from black R&B, jazz and the blues, to calling collagen enhanced white female lips the Paris lip instead of admitting they want lips, breasts, and buttocks like our black women have, to today, where Europeans are attacking, murdering and stealing from Africa, to killing the leader of Libya and pretending his own people did it, to Australias aboriginals who were raped, murdered, and robbed of their country and their children (google the Stolen Generation) from the atom bomb that was dropped on Japan, the napalming of Vietnam, Katrina in the US where black people stranded on roofs for 4 days then robbed of their right to reclaim their land to the police murders of countless unarmed black men, women AND CHILDREN, to people like Lara and the countless white trolls who refuse to admit what they know is true: that white people individually AND collectively, mistreat and benefit from mistreating people who are not
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white. White people KNOW this is true and white people KNOW what other white people say and do when there are no black people in the room. They KNOW their relatives, friends, coworkers and bed partners talk negatively about black people. They KNOW that the black people on their jobs are treated unfairly and dont get the kind of credit or promotions that white people get. They know this because its the average, ordinary white person who decides whether a black person gets that job, that loan, that promotion, that traffic ticket (or a pass), or a guilty verdict in the courtroom as a defendant or whether a white cop gets an innocent verdict after shooting an unarmed black man 41 times. Its the average, ordinary white person that keeps the hell going for millions of non-white people on the planet because without that support the system of white supremacy would self-destruct. #3 Again, and again and again (to the point of exhaustion), black people cannot be racist, and cannot practice racism because racism is NOT expressing an opinion as a powerless (black) person, racism is action, words , thoughts and deeds based on having institutions and SYSTEMS in place that will back up those thoughts, words, and deeds. you can all me a lot of things, but as a black person, the one thing i will never answer to is racist I make no apologies for telling the truth about the documented actions of white people on this planet and I could care less who is offended by that no disrespect intended.
Matari on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 21:11:32 of course white females get more empathy and sympathy from the white media and white people collectively. Yes they do, and they also receive the lions share (they are the primary beneficiaries) of Affirmative Action benefits in the U.S., a fact conveniently lost on the white mass mind, even to the extent that white people collectively (and now routinely) vote against it. If white women benefit (THE MOST), then by default wont their WHITE husbands, sons, fathers, brothers, boyfriends .. derive some trickle down perks and benefits too? White folks in their demonic delusions are willing to hurt themselves as long as their perception is that they are hurting others even more. WHITENESS IS DEMONIC!
crammasters @ Matari
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 21:25:15
I agree and the sad, pitiful part is white females pretending they havent benefited from affirmative action by claiming AA is reverse racism this is the kind of DISHONESTY and (inborn lying tendencies) that I spoke of earlier. When it comes to racism against non-white people, they just dont seem to be able to help themselves or stop themselves from lying about it. I truly think its a genetic/psychological illness
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just my opinion
Matari I truly think its a genetic/psychological illness
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 21:50:04
I think its a psychological/spiritual malady that enters into them after theyre born. Even white so-called Christians put whiteness (white supremacy, the greatest religion in the world) ahead of righteousness since even they cannot resist the pull of racism, so strong are its effects/enchantments/lures.
crammasters @ Matari
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 22:01:51
I agree. I dont believe people are born with a blank slate, I think our origins and racial memories (the memories/actions) of our ancestors are imprinted on our DNA. Also, the origins of Europeans and their fixation on apes (Planet of the Apes, calling African people gorillas, and common phrases among the white collective like, Ill be a monkeys uncle or he went ape or youre a Neanderthal) points to some repressed admission/memory of their very different origins than the African man and woman. Even their own white media admit there is a difference in the origins of black and white people National Geographic ran a documentary special about three years ago where they theorized that the European is a hybrid between Neanderthal and man. who is man? the African man they know who we (blacks) which is why Europeans are dead on their jobs 24-7, 365 days a year keeping their feet on our black necks
Matari on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 22:22:07 Also, the origins of Europeans and their fixation on apes (Planet of the Apes, calling African people gorillas, and common phrases among the white collective like, Ill be a monkeys uncle or he went ape or youre a Neanderthal) points to some repressed admission/memory of their very different origins than the African man and woman. You nailed it, Crammaster! But you forgot to include King-Kong and Tarzan the APE-man! LOL
sam on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 23:15:23 @matari: I was waiting who comes out with Tarzan, a white man who rules the jungle by virtue of being born and bred a noble man, lord Greystoke, despite being raised by a buch of apes without any human contact . King Kong is also pretty good one but Tarzan is better. Just think about the first Tarzan movie featurin
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Johnny Weissmueller in the lead. One guy once said that is the presentation of the nightmare of the whites: dark african jungle, black dwarfs, giant man eating gorillas, and on top of it: the only white hope is a tree jumping white guy who is intellectually on the level of monkeys.
crammasters thanks for the reminder lol
on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 23:26:26
crammasters @ Sam
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 00:34:18
Agree with your earlier comments about white anti-racists, and frankly, Im sickened by the public display (circus) over how much they love those poor, pitiful starving and displaced Africans (courtesy of white imperialism, thank you) and youre right when you say why not just give them money if youre so committed instead of raising your public profile by begging POOR and working folk to fund your charitable efforts? It reeks of self-promotion and phoniness, especially when the black people right under their noses cant get the time of day from these white stars what really wipes me is when famous folks want something named after them, like the XYZ scholarship fund yet claim they giving from the heart bet money if they had to give whatever they gave anonymously, meaning no media coverage, no picture on the NY Times society pages, no charitable balls or parties or champagne or finger sandwiches or buildings or scholarships or awards named after them, most of the wealthy wouldnt dole out pocket change.
Matari Crammasters wrote:
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 01:44:56
It is almost a religious quest, so many black folks desperately seeking out and uplifting good white people and white liberals like former prez Bill Clintion who black folks love and used to call the first black prez) despite the FACT that there was a ton of punitive legislation enacted against blacks during the Clinton Administration) The best scam in town is the (show) business of white anti-racism. Its like speaking against crack cocaine while enjoying legal immunity as you puff on your crack pipe. I believe the system tolerates and encourages and rewards white anti-racists like Tim Wise, for example, because they confuse the victimized black masses into thinking there are good white people. ________________________________________ You mean like this?? http://loop21.com/content/most-influential-white-americans-black-americans BTW, I wasnt a Clinton fan once I viewed the Clinton Chronicles video documentary and read about:
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Chinagate, Bloodgate, the Mena Airport in Arkansas, Juanita Brodderick, Jennifer Flowers, Clintons circle of death, Waco, Paula Jones, Vince Foster, Ron Brown, Monica L, Whitewater, Katherine Willey, Lincoln bedroom scandal, I could go on and on. Slick Willie should have been impeached. The mainstream media investigative journalists in the US was complicit in covering up his escapades, the alternative internet media, not so much.The fact that he wasnt thrown out for his corruption was my personal wake up call that the US govt was compromised, fully corrupt and beyond recovery/redemption. As brother Malcolm has stated, weve been had, hoodwinked and bamboozled!
crammasters @ Matari Just checked out the link and saw the list how absurd
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 02:02:49
crammasters @ Matari I also agree with your opinion of Clinton
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 02:13:14
GoldFire @Crammasters
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 04:07:37
Youre dealing with deeply ingrained insecurities that need to be dealt with directly as oppose to peripherally, tangentially and/or indirectly. Everything subjective is influenced by objective data and assimilated into the psyche in order for us to make sense of the world, so its no wonder people of color view themselves in the light theyve been inculcated to see themselves in. Add to that the very human search for significance and Viola!!! youve got a winning formula for internalized racism displayed in one form or another in POC worldwide, specifically if not especially, within the AA community. In other words, theres been a void. A rather a tangible void having to do with the mechanics of self worth that up till now has been the purview of those who retain a connection to their supposed (because who but a tribesman in the furthest regions of the globe can make that claim) indigenous roots, i.e. what they consider their civilization. My contention is that in lieu of the traditions/songs/clothing languages that make up these cultures, the meticulous hunting, gathering and recording of a library of knowledge/information both historical and present day regarding black peoples accomplishments at large within Africa and in the western hemisphere, placed in one location (with copies of-course) and the dissemination there of throughout the black diaspora via a home-schooling apparatus as a potential answer in combating the insidious effects of internalized racism. The rest is simply a matter of a hardcore push in the maths and sciences which can also be addressed via the same apparatus. To my mind the real issue is whos at fault for allowing that vacuum to linger/ remain un-addressed for so long or without redress in a systematic and unrelenting way, rather than whos at fault for filling that vacuum via their own injudicious/harsh self interested lens. In essence, wheres black academia and black leadership? True enough, and begrudgingly to Laras point, the African American community as the forefathers of
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civil rights in the western world have a reason to be angry when they keep seeing other marginalized POC coming to this country, taking advantage of the opportunities this nations has to offer, distancing themselves from the AA community at best and reviling them in accordance to the racial meme at worst. All the while coveting/fighting/hiding from the issues in order to firmly plant themselves under the model minority umbrella. If the squeaky wheel gets the grease, indeed African Americans groaned, moaned and gargled through blood filled mouths and sweat laden brows under centuries of whips, chains, billy-clubs, nooses, vicious dogs, not to mention both psychological and economic warfare in order that through their struggles others might have the luxury to enjoy these hard won freedoms. Ironically, only to be faced with the reality, from these very same beneficiaries, an unwillingness to ingratiate themselves in the same manner to their community as to those from whom these freedoms had to be wrestled. However, it seems to me, unlike these beneficiaries, African Americans albeit only 50 years from civil rights, have spent more time memorializing and rehashing these horrific past events, their discontent with the paternal quality of white supremacy, and the malediction that is white racism, rather than, or along with an unremitting focus on the education of the next generation of black children. Further, some, in an aggressive attempt to reestablish a sense of self worth in the face of an ugly history of forced deference, in combination with high degrees of internalized racism and anger over economic disenfranchisement have sadly turned to impolitic and self destructive behaviors in order to assert their personal worth; to deadly social ramifications within and without their own group. Black people must address these realities for the sake of our own restoration.
dave @matari lol Blackness is Satanic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 04:53:26
GoldFire @Crammasters
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 05:35:25
Its time for us to accept hard, cold reality that black people will have to do the changing, that we have to change how we think, act, and speak when it comes to white people and that means what ever it means. Just incase youre wondering what in Gods name Im responding to in my earlier post to you.
Matari @ diva Blackness is Satanic!!!!!!!!!!!!! *****************************************
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 05:39:53
Thats right. Because WHITENESS the mother of all lies CREATED the LIES regarding blackness! Youre finally starting to catch on.
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sam on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 07:47:16 @matari: Well, lets study the biblical figure of satan here for a while. The name comes from the hebrew word stn, yes, with a small letters. Now, what that means? It means the opponent of gods will. Why this stn opposed god? Well, according the bible, stn was not willing to wipe out the whole humanity in the great flood. He actually tried to defend humans and wanted to save them from destruction. God had other ideas and wiped out most of the humanbeings and according to the bible, that was nice deed. It was only much later that this stn became the devil guy we all know. There is no knowing was the original stn even the same dude who was Lucifer, who by the way was the brightest of the angles, bringer of the Light, and was cast down from heavens by the same angry god who wanted the humans suffer for real in order to make them love Him.
Matari @ Sam
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 10:12:03
Well, according the bible, stn was not willing to wipe out the whole humanity in the great flood. He actually tried to defend humans and wanted to save them from destruction. God had other ideas and wiped out most of the humanbeings and according to the bible, that was nice deed. I dont recall reading that in the scriptures. Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives and a male and female of each animal species were directed by God onto the Ark Noah built according to Gods instructions is what I recall reading. My understanding of Satan is that hes Gods avowed enemy, hates humankind and would like to see us all perish. Do you have a biblical reference, chapter(s) and verse(s) for your biblical account?
Matari on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 10:42:06 There is no knowing was the original stn even the same dude who was Lucifer, who by the way was the brightest of the angles, bringer of the Light, and was cast down from heavens by the same angry god who wanted the humans suffer for real in order to make them love Him. I think amongst Lucifers first sins was that he looked upon his BEAUTIFUL self as being on PAR with God. He also led a rebellion in Heaven and convinced a portion of the angelic hosts (now known as demons) to side with him against God. They were kicked out of Heaven for their failed insurrection against God.
sam on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 11:54:29 @matari: Originally there was no devil or satan, it was malak yahweh, the angry god, the warrior god who brought the devastation and destruction on earth and there were none like him (Isaiah 45:7, Moses 31:1, 31:18-19, Jos 7:24-25, 1 Sam 5: 9-10, Gensis 6: 5-6, Gen19, Genesis 32: 23-32, Exodus 4: 24-26 etc.). It was because the need to portray god in a more pleasant light, they (israelites) adapted some dualistic consepts from neighbouring peoples. In Lv 16: 8-10 strange god Azazel appears suddenly. In the first book of Samuel king Saul is terrfied
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before a battle spirit of yahweh leaves him and evil spirit from yahweh takes its place. In 2 Sam 24.16 angry god sends one of his angels destroy the harvest of the people, with whom he was angry, so that 70 000 died. Gods own people, that is. Sometime between 3rd and 2nd century BC heavenly host starts to appear in scriptures. Bene ha-elohim, gods own court starts appear, pretty much like in the mythology of the greeks with Zeus on the throne and others hanging around. But even at this stage there still was no satan, but gods messengers who might destory humans if god wanted so. It is in the book of Job where satan makes his grand entrance. In King James bible the word stn, satan, is translated enemy when god raises an enemy to Solomon (1 kings 11:14). In book fo Job satan is one of the angels who starts to argue with god, claiming that the people are good only because they have received a reward. Satan says to yahweh that Job is just a man, that without reward he would not be so dedicated to yahweh. So yahweh proofs Jobs loyalty by inflicting all kinds of torments but Job stays loyal. Satan then asks can he test this guy and yahweh says go ahead. So there we have the satan who teases humans and tests their loyalty to the boss. But he is presented as yahwehs guy, not his enemy at this point.In Book of Zecheria satan is the prosecutor, to whom another angel of yahweh gets mad, because he goes too far. In this it is that angel who roamed the earth checking out people, not the satan who did just that in the Book of Job. In new testament satan comes the enemy of god. Originally the religion in which the christianity was based on, was totally absolutely monotheistic. There were no others. Just one god. But surrounding cultures opened a chance to portray that god in more positive light, IF there was somebody else doing the bad deeds. But even then that guy was just doing gods bidding and jobs he was told to do by the almighty god. He was the gods assassin, in a way a hit man. Trough the hellenistic influences, oriental influences, the concept started to widen untill there were all kinds of gods messengers, angels and spirits, among which there was this dude called stn. Trough the developement of the religion, hellenistic influences changed the canon, and finally the romans transformed the thing into what we know now. St.Augustine was the main guy in the prosess, it was him who got the idea of satan as the Big Bad Guy with the helpers called demons, who flew around kidnapping people. Demon came ofcourse from the greek word daemon, which was hellenistic version of soul which did not suit for these fathers of christianity. It was also Augustine who invented the idea that angels in general can fly around in spilt seconds etc. This was result of dumbing the religion from ots roots and origins. The christianity of Augustine became sort of roman version with its showmanship and flash and bling bling from a hard edged religion of the desert nomands, the isralites. They were millions of miles apart. Constant re writing of the scriptures transformed the whole story into hodgepodge of religious influences which had nothing to do with the origins. Finally in Nicea they just decided that these stories are in and rest are to be wiped out. Lucky for us they were not, so we have some idea what the christianity was originally about. Same goes with judaism, religion whose one sect the original christianity was. Hellenistic jew Paul invented his own version and marketed it trough the hellenistic world and once Jerusalem was destroyed, along with the original church lead by the brother of Jesus himself, James
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the Just, his version took hold in romanized world. But that had nothing to do with the one Jesus, or Yeshua, was talking about. It was Pauls own invention, his religion, which hijacked Yeshua and gave him a status as a dying and resurrecting god man, just like all the rest from Mithra to Attis. Originally Yeshua had been a rabbi, preacher, inventor and renovator of judaism, a profet and a messiah, a jewish man who would lead the jewish people to freedom. Not a demi god who flyes in the skies and does all kinds of stunts. Satans story goes the same way. Satan we know today did not excist originally. It was and it is an convinient invention.
Matari on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 12:14:38 Thank you Sam. That was quite the reply, and after glimpsing at all of that, I still say that WHITENESS IS DEMONIC, and needs to go!
Herneith Well, lets study the biblical figure of satan here for a while. Satan, aka Lucifer or Morningstar, was one horny devil!
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 16:57:35
Matari Satan, aka Lucifer or Morningstar, was one horny devil!
on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 20:48:05
Bub (the WICKED One, Beelzebub) probably has at least TWO horns!!! lol
Herneith on Fri 4 Nov 2011 at 22:55:42 Heres an ode to all those white chicks who love to cry at the drop of a pin, thus irritating countless people!:
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sam @herneith, matari: I wonder do they, Bub and Luc, listen 2Live Crews Me so horny??
on Sat 5 Nov 2011 at 09:23:56
Matari I wonder do they, Bub and Luc, listen 2Live Crews Me so horny?
on Sat 5 Nov 2011 at 11:09:51
Sam staying with her majesty (fashion footwear & handbags) Queen Hs (in)appropriate metaphor you sure that wasnt 2Live Crews Me Two Horny club mix version? : ))) Bub and Luc (Luke) might have tried using this classic model to induce these teary eyed white women to stop practicing racism and just float on.
sam @matari:
on Sun 6 Nov 2011 at 08:55:49
Happiness on Fri 2 Dec 2011 at 18:10:20 Oh yes, I have experienced this in full effect..FAKE crocodile tears and lies heaped on more lies with people conspiring together. If you dont get your way by jumping up and down and screaming like Hitler, then make up some lies and say that the black woman threatened you or screamed at you.This has only ever happened to me once in my life in the workplace, but that situation is one that I will NEVER forget..EVER. Besides, the types of white women who do this type of thing with the fake crocodile tears and devious conniving, telling lies and two faced behaviours are usually the ones who are FAT with low self esteem and jealous of the black women in questionThe white women who have high self-esteem dont feel threatened by black women or black men because they are secure within self and confident of their own abilities and therefore see others of a different race as equal and therefore
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not a threat. Anyway, that is just my analysis of the situation. Yes, this particular post is right on point.
Happiness @Dave on Thu 3 Nov 2011 at 04:34:52
on Fri 2 Dec 2011 at 19:25:15
Seeing as you were the police officer who had to investigate this very case where my ex-Manager told a heap of lies and nobody bothered to involve me and ask me any questions involving the investigation.The scenario you describe is close to what happened to me and my boss at London South Bank University, except that the woman is a liar, a tyrant, a bully and the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler (female version). Of course, you know all about the case since you were there in person and witnessed the whole thing. You have stated on this very blog that you are racist, so how would a person like you be impartial to the situation..Well, you wouldnt. The racial slurs in question were people in the office who happen to be white making jokes about black people, something that would not be tolerated if it was the other way around. How about the part where they tried to say that I was a drug user and you and your police friends tried to plant drugs at my house, where it now appears that you are now living, you conned your way in there with the estate agents under false pretences. You really are a snake. I dont know how MI5, MI6 or the Metropolitan police force in general, cope with people like you on their force..You are a criminal and you and I both know that to be factual.
Bouncy on Wed 25 Jan 2012 at 10:01:02 This is SO racist, when will it end I am a white woman and love all people that treat me well no matter what. Perhaps when YOU (not black people because I know so many who see us all as one, but everyone here who is segregating themselves and SAYING they are different to white people) stop seeing skin colour everyone else will too. Until YOU stop seeing white people as DIFFERENT though how can this ever end!?! When YOU say I am WHITE is the only time I notice you are BLACK. When you accept we are all just one people on a tiny planet and stop pointing out our differences then that is exactly how well be! And women who use tears as a weapon are disgusting no matter what colour they are!! Blessed be EVERYONE, no matter your skin/shape /county/religion!
abagond @ Bouncy
on Wed 25 Jan 2012 at 10:34:40
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stop seeing skin colour everyone else will too. Until YOU stop seeing white people as DIFFERENT though how can this ever end!?! When YOU say I am WHITE is the only time I notice you are BLACK. That is not how it works in most cases: http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/08/11/growing-up-black/
eco on Wed 25 Jan 2012 at 12:15:36 @ Bouncy When YOU say I am WHITE is the only time I notice you are BLACK. I think its safe to assume you are being disingenuous. Do you notice someones height/weight only when they mention your body type? Either consciously or subconsciously you are aware of a persons race.
Sara Malabar on Wed 25 Jan 2012 at 22:46:10 Ive never seen the scene described above played out in front of me, though I dont doubt in the least its truthfulness. As a white woman who doesnt cry (unless someone I love dies, or naturally at the end of romantic comedies while drunk), Ive often experienced women crying in various settings: the workplace, church, politics, etc. to acheive their end goal or to deflect from a challenge or argument. It was so bad in university my co-chair and I tried to instill a no crying rule into an end of year conference meeting. Of course there is never any ownership of how manipulative this behaviour is. Its just genuine emotions, and you know us women cant manage our emotions, we just have to express them whether its appropriate or not. (blech) I had always thought of this as something many women do (not all, just many) but now that I think back on it I can only recall other white women crying in these settings. So perhaps this is something only white women do. That is to say that while there is a lot of truth to your narrative above, what is not true is that it is entirely about race. Had you challenged that same woman about something that has nothing to do with race, or disagreed with them in a board meeting they would have been just as likely to cry to achieve their goal. In your scenario their goal is to not deal with a conversation about race, or to avoid being uncomfortable or challenged. And it works.
Joshua Busch (@joshonthestreet) on Tue 14 Feb 2012 at 05:24:46 I have seen this happen too. And I understand the frustration about this counter-productive response. However, I dont think its a manipulative trick that white women use. I think its rooted in an ignorance about race and racism. Frankly, most white women (and men) spend there lives not thinking too much about race (a benefit of white privilege). But on the other hand white people generally dont want to be racist So when they do, or say, something offensive (out of ignorance) they get confused, scared and upset. The tears are genuine. Whether the white person is willing to continue to engage after the tears dry-up is the test of whether he or she is committed to
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anti-racism.
intermission! white mens tears and the insecurity of the on Sun 19 Feb 2012 at 19:05:25 privileged Requires Only That You Hate [...] subject refers to the idea of white womans tears, which sometimes comes into contention due to its gendered nature. But thats not what [...]
Steph on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 20:50:57 I am a Black woman familiar with the WWT phenomenon since I grew up in a mostly-white area of the Midwest. I didnt have the frame of reference to understand how WWT made my life difficult until I grew older. I noticed in high school, in college, and now on-the-job. WWT, on-the-job, remains a constant headache. Bad behavior, bad language, bad performance on projects by White women gets an automatic pass when the tears arrive. Ive seen straight-out aggression, passive-aggression, manipulation, harassment, you name it. Right now, WWT in the workplace comes from my boss, the owner of the business. She uses WWT to persuade me to work late, work weekends, cover for the mistakes she makes, and make sacrifices for her need to self-medicate her strange personality. Even her pet dog prefers me and wont come to her when she calls it. I suspect that she may be mentally-ill and so I try not to engage her manipulative game-playing. Im sending out applications and I hope I find a position elsewhere soon.
Adeen Danica Mckenzie on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 21:35:59 I live in a small Southern town and see this crap all the time. I could care less for WWT but you have to realize that women of other races excluding Black woman are just as conniving and use their tears, social status etc to get their way.
neurotype on Thu 17 May 2012 at 20:10:55 So I have the right to call out all white women like this, just because Im not one? Awesome. This sounds perfectly reasonable.
TrojanPam on Thu 17 May 2012 at 20:24:39 We have the right to call it like we see it, and there is much truth to the distasteful and manipulative display called white womens tears. Turn on the TV and within 24 hours, you will have seen white women crying on talk shows, court shows, TV shows, and movies, even Valerie Bertinelli crying on a Jennie Craig commercial about losing weight. The white female has been used as a tool to promote empathy and sympathy for white people collectively yet the irony is no one has it harder than black and non-white females who pain and suffering is largely ignored. You dont see missing, raped, or murdered black or brown and red or yellow females being profiled on the nightly news. You dont see laws named in honor of a black or non-white child. You dont see helicopters and entire police departments searching for a missing black or non-white female or child. Yes, white women collectively are quick to pull out the old onion sack and cry crocodile tears whenever they are in a situation they want to get out of it. Just yesterday I saw a Judge Judy show where Judge Judy (a white female) actually warned a white female not to put on those white eyes
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with her. In other words, dont pull that poor little white female me trick on her. White people know the tricks that other white people pull on non-white people and on other white people. It is black and non-white people, especially black and non-white males who are more likely to fall for these tricks because the movies and media have programmed them by constantly portraying Denzel and Morgan and other black males saving or assisting white females. The truth is what it is.
neurotype Are other races women allowed to cry?
on Thu 17 May 2012 at 20:29:16
neurotype on Thu 17 May 2012 at 20:34:59 Also I really do not appreciate being lumped in as brown. Culture matters. If youre going to claim truth, use it.
TrojanPam on Thu 17 May 2012 at 20:52:57 The point is not if other races are allowed to cry, its that their tears dont matter to white society. If white females were burying their children at the same rate as black women are, the entire broadcast systems computers would be drowned in WWs tears and somebody (white) would be doing something about it. Thats why BW arent as prone to CRY at the drop of a safety pin. Because we know NO ONE CARES especially white people. I did not lump you into any category FYI non-whites do not have the POWER to classify ourselves. White people created the black, brown, red, and yellow people aka people of color, so your beef is with the wrong person (me). so lets not waste time debating non-points. If white people say you are brown, you are brown and as long as this white supremacy system dominates non-white people (including YOU), you will be whatever white people in power say you are.
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Demerera on Thu 17 May 2012 at 21:19:37 If white people say you are brown, you are brown and as long as this white supremacy system dominates non-white people (including YOU), you will be whatever white people in power say you are. I have to agree here. If you can bring looks, profound academic ability or some other assett or talent/ability to the race then there are many WP who will happily become colourblind and embrace you into the fold. If you are of indeterminate race and are not fortunate enough to be gifted then generally, you can be on the receiving end of all kinds of generalisations about who you are and how you should be perceived.
neurotype on Thu 17 May 2012 at 21:26:21 No, my skin color is definitely brown. I take pride in this, especially during tanning season, and just because white people say it too I dont see why I have to give it up. I have no problem being offended if people assume Im Latinawhich so far has only occurred in the form of people coming up to me and speaking rapid Spanish. I have honestly never seen a white woman cry, but if I do Ill let her know the only reason Im asking her whats wrong is because I pander to her attention whoring. Im incredibly confused as to why its appropriate to just say all white women cry for stupid, attentiongetting reasons but not to stereotype any other color.
TrojanPam @ Demerera
on Thu 17 May 2012 at 21:54:41
I hear what youre saying but in my humble opinion, regardless of talent or assets at best a non-white person is TOLERATED until they forget who and what they are. There are so many examples, it would take a year to list but heres a few: OJ Simpson, the Juice, one of the most talented football players in history was embraced by colorblind white fans as he ran laughing through the nations airports UNTIL he used those assets to get the kind of legal representation normally reserved for white people and beat a rap for the murder of TWO white people. Harvard Professor Henry Gates was embraced by colorblind whites until he dared object to being arrested and handcuffed in his own home by an ordinary white male civil servant cop. To keep his Harvard job and continue to be tolerated by white people, Gates had to sit down and have a beer with that white cop, who, to my knowledge never apologized for his racist behavior. When President Obama called that white cop stupid for arresting Professor Gates, even being president didnt shield Obama from a barrage of condemnation and Obama had to basically apologize by inviting that civil servant white cop to the White House for a beer. Now, try to imagine President Bush calling a cop stupid and being forced to apologizenow we know that would never happen. H, Cheney shot a man in a hunting accident that the man he shot
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apologized to Cheney! (( shaking head and chuckling )) This is my point, that there is NOTHING a non-white person can do to be equal to a white person in the eyes of white people collectively, yet we still believe that more education, better table manners, more money, more degrees, more white-identification, more white spouses, and more assets will erase our color in a white supremacy system. The evidence that this is true is UNDENIABLE. I encourage no, implore non-white people to take the blinders off. There is NOTHING new about an educated black or brown or red or yellow person. It is our vanity and wishful thinking that makes the educated or asset-heavy non-white think otherwise.
TrojanPam correction:
on Thu 17 May 2012 at 21:57:16
This is my point, that there is NOTHING a non-white person can do to be equal to a white person in the eyes of white people collectively, yet we still believe that more education, better table manners, more money, more degrees, more white-identification, more white spouses, and more assets will erase our color in a white supremacy system. The evidence that this is NOT true is UNDENIABLE. I encourage no, implore non-white people to take the blinders off. There is NOTHING new about an educated black or brown or red or yellow person. It is our vanity, CONFUSION, and wishful thinking that makes the educated or asset-heavy non-white think otherwise.
TrojanPam on Thu 17 May 2012 at 22:04:01 @ neurotype who said, Im incredibly confused as to why its appropriate to just say all white women cry for stupid, attention-getting reasons but not to stereotype any other color. I didnt say all, as in every single solitary white female on earth, but I believe were referring to their collective behavior that seems to be more common among white females than non-white females. the real point I was making (and I cant speak for Abagond or other posters) is that in a white supremacy system white females are allowed to use their white-ness and female-ness aka their white privileges to manipulate and influence in ways that are not available to non-white males and females.
neurotype on Thu 17 May 2012 at 22:16:16 How willing are you to rely on the gratitude and support of a white (which Im assuming here means Western European descent more than anything else)? I like being independent. Even if I could get the same attention a crying white lady getswhich could be perfectly possibleIm not going that route.
TrojanPam on Thu 17 May 2012 at 22:32:39 Just to be clear, when i say white I mean those people who are classified as white by the most
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powerful white supremacists on the planet. There are many black people who are as lightskinned as a white person but who are still classified as a black person. Skin color is only part of what makes a person white. Whiteness is not an ethnicity, its a political identity that exists only within a white supremacy system. WIthout whiteness there would be no white supremacy. Without white supremacy, there would be no such thing as white people. That being said, I would love to live in a world where I was not dependent on white people. Unfortunately, since white people control everything that non-whites need in the United States, from food, housing, money, jobs, medical care, education, and entertainment, I have no choice but to rely on them. Again, I want to encourage non-white people to NOT be real about our situation and our manufactured dependency and inferiority. We cant fix a problem by pretending that problem does not exist. No, I would not want to go through life crying to get my way, but it would be nice to know that I could get some attention and assistance in times of need. Absolutely.
neurotype on Thu 17 May 2012 at 22:41:32 What about the white people who are socioeconomically disadvantaged, living in the slums and so on? Likewise, what about the non-white people who live in the richest areas and give tons of money to conservative campaigns? Yes, its not as commonat least in Americafor a non-white to be ultra rich. But it happens. Both these groups exist. Deciding to draw your battle lines based on color, while traditional, conveniently ignores a whole host of other inequalities. Including the fact that the bystander effect was first characterized due to the suffering of a white woman. Or maybe Kitty Genovese isnt white enough for the supremacists? Theyre not the majorityI dont use their definition.
TrojanPam on Thu 17 May 2012 at 23:18:26 RE poor whites, in every war, there are casualties. The trick is to make white supremacy look more like class warfare rather than racism warfare. There are three reasons: 1. If there were no poor whites or so-called rich black or non-whites, it would be too obvious to non-whites that they were being screwed. The reality is skin color alwayw outranks class. Skin color determines CASTE, meaning you are BORN into your true status and that can never change, regardless of how much education and money your acquire. Just ask Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jackson, OJ Simpson, President Obama, Harvard Professor Gates, etc. all of who have more money than a paper god, but are (and were) still treated like n**gers in a white supremacy system. 2. There is nothing more dangerous than a large number of disenfranchised and frustrated people who have nothing to lose. They have to make it appear that there is such a thing as black/non-white
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progress to keep non-whites the MAJORITY on the planet in line, hopeful, cooperative, and submissive to white supremacy aka If I do all my homework, dress nice, drive a luxury car, live in the right (white) neighborhood, and eat all my spinach, maybe, I can get the same respect whites get. Strangely but predictably enough, when blacks/non-whites see poor whites or white people begging on street corners, non-whites feel better about being mistreated. Hey, white people are suffering, too! 3. Capitalism requires slavery, including white slavery. It is unrealistic to think that all white people will be equally privileged just because its a white supremacy system. Thats not realistic. The ultimate goal is complete control of the majority of people on the planet with the people classified as white dominating those who are not. That is it in a nutshell in my opinion. So, I would strongly advise non-white people NOT to spend precious time defending white women or white people and spend more time worrying about ourselves and how we will survive this system.
TrojanPam on Thu 17 May 2012 at 23:34:20 I would like to briefly add that skin color is the most common way of identifying whites from non-whites but caste is not limited to skin color alone. For example a light-skinned black or brown person might look like they could pass for white but what are they seen as by those in power? We are black, brown, red, and yellow people aka people of color and this is based on how the most powerful white people classify us. it is this classification that determines our CASTE.
neurotype on Thu 17 May 2012 at 23:55:45 Oh hell no. I refuse to be a person of color. I refuse to be anything Im not. I have brown skin and my parents are from elsewhere. What I am is not inclined to blame people who didnt deserve it by insulting me, or to lie down and take it from anybody. Any kind of blanket generalization is a stereotype, and Im not supporting it from either side. Every group wants to be in control. The Western Hemisphere was more successful there, and yeah thats sucked for a lot of cultures. Letting any of this define todaywhen China is definitely the economic poweris futile. For caste system, try the Hindus.
TrojanPam on Thu 17 May 2012 at 23:58:50 If you have the ability (power) to re-classify yourself and force the most powerful (white) people to accept your definition, I say, go for it!
neurotype Thanks! I hope others can define themselves, too.
on Sat 19 May 2012 at 01:36:53
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Demerera @TrojanPam
on Sun 20 May 2012 at 11:06:10
I encourage no, implore non-white people to take the blinders off. There is NOTHING new about an educated black or brown or red or yellow person. It is our vanity, CONFUSION, and wishful thinking that makes the educated or asset-heavy non-white think otherwise. You give some really good examples here. I appreciate what you say totally. It seems that there can and often will be a heavy price to pay when you assimilate (or are seen as being able to). Somewhere someone cannot, will not let you forget what you really are and where you came from. Good luck to those who have managed to find the balance and are not encumbered by the issues mentioned here.
leigh204 on Sun 20 May 2012 at 11:53:28 Heres my experience with white womens tears, okay, maybe white young womens tears. When I was a 15 years old, I went to the girls washroom to apply lipstick in front of a mirror. A white girl, whom I didnt know very well, but I had seen her around school, stands next to me to fix her hair. She watches me apply my lipstick and proceeds to turn around to face me and says, You have n-word lips for an Asian. I was so mad she made a racial slur that I spit in her face. She was shocked, of course. And so was I. I had never done anything like that before nor had I been in any trouble. Well, this white girl goes the office and tells the principal I spat in her face for making a comment about her lips. I was in one of my classes, and I get hauled out to the principals office with the white girl there. She had been crying. The principal asked me if I spit in the girls face. Well, the white girl started crying again and whining, I cant believe she spit in my face. The principal was handing her tissues and even gave her a quick pat on the shoulder to get her to calm down. I replied, Yes, I didAFTER she called my lips the n-word! Then the white girl cried even louder. The principal grimaces and proceeds to tell me that I have detention for one whole week for spitting while the white girl receives only three days. I objected, Thats unfair! Why is she only getting three? I was minding my business when she made that comment! She should be getting the whole week, not me! The principal said, Thats enough, young lady. One whole week of detention. Thats it. No questions. Got it? I was angry at what just happened. Then I shot the side eye to the white girl and left. If I knew I would be getting a week for spitting, I wouldve popped her in the mouth. Anyway, the girl and I had detention in the same classroom, and I dropped a note on her desk. I wrote if she called me any racial slur, I would be more than happy to fight her after school. She kept her distance from me following my note.
leigh204 Oops, my bad. Abagond, please correct this: When I was a 15 years old Please delete the a.
on Sun 20 May 2012 at 11:59:05
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Oh, and this, too. Well, this white girl goes the office and tells the principal I spat in her face for making a comment about her lips. (Please change her lips to MY lips, thank you.)
Demerera @Leigh
on Sun 20 May 2012 at 12:12:55
.I wrote if she called me any racial slur, I would be more than happy to fight her afterschool. She kept her distance from me following my note. Woah Leigh. I wouldnt have liked to get on the wrong side of you at school! Amazing isnt it. I witnessed this woman tell my friend that she looked like some other female, a woman that wasnt known to take care of themselves in any way shape or form. My friend responded and rejected the comment though pointed out to the white female who she thought she looked like. Equally the resemblance was not flattering but unfortuntately for the white female had much more truth in it than her comment to my friend. What happened? Half an hour or so later whilst we had been sat in another part of the venue minding our own business, friends of the white girl came up to us saying how upset she was at my friends unecessary comment and that she was crying cos she felt insulted and they didnt know why my friend was being so mean. So, the moral is, its OK for certain people to think they can tell you something about yourself but, it is NEVER ok for others to respond to this, particularly in the case of some WW
leigh204 @ Demerera:
on Sun 20 May 2012 at 12:38:27
Woah Leigh. I wouldnt have liked to get on the wrong side of you at school! lol! People always tell me that I can be a spitfire (no pun intended) when I want to be. somewhat shy, but Im pretty friendly and generous to those who know me. Usually, Im
Amazing isnt it. I witnessed this woman tell my friend that she looked like some other female, a woman that wasnt known to take care of themselves in any way shape or form. My friend responded and rejected the comment though pointed out to the white female who she thought she looked like. Equally the resemblance was not flattering but unfortuntately for the white female had much more truth in it than her comment to my friend. What happened? Half an hour or so later whilst we had been sat in another part of the venue minding our own business, friends of the white girl came up to us saying how upset she was at my friends unecessary comment and that she was crying cos she felt insulted and they didnt know why my friend was being so mean. Isnt it interesting that the white girls friends came up to your friend and you and not the white girl herself.
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So, the moral is, its OK for certain people to think they can tell you something about yourself but, it is NEVER ok for others to respond to this, particularly in the case of some WW Yes, these particular WW can dish it out, but they cant take it.
leigh204 @ Bulanik: @Leigh I wouldve popped her in the mouth..
on Sun 20 May 2012 at 12:55:01
Omg, I wish I had known how to stand up for myself like that when I was young. Instead I just shriveled away and ran the risk of forever being misunderstood by all and sundry through lack of confidence/fighting skills. How did you learn to fight back like that? I ask because I never knew. I suppose I always got mixed messages about fight back: if you fight you are a bad person, if you fight back you are just as bad as the person who attacked you AND conforming to a reputation that everyone expects of you, and, if you fight youre going to get more hurt anyway. Believe me when I say Im one of the shyest, quietest people youll ever meet. Im not aggressive in the least. To be honest, I really dont know what came over me. I had this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, and the more I thought about the unfairness of the situation, I became very angry. And it just boiled over, I suppose.
Demerera @Bulanik What a joke. What has changed?
on Sun 20 May 2012 at 13:03:13
Im not sure that much, if anything has. Another incident springs to mind some 15 or so years ago, I was out in a pub that I used to frequent as it was my cousins local. This couple used to come in there who were always rowing with each other. She, a bleach blonde permed headed girl, him a guy with short dreds. Their demeanour always the same him seemingly laughing it off and her always looking pinched in the face. She used to talk to me at first but, one day I was in the pub, minding my own business and she and him were having quite a heated row. He came over and randomly cupped my breast!!! I was horrified and recoiled and asked what the hell he thought he was doing. He didnt reply, merely walked back to her where she proceeded to cry and storm out. Her friends looked at me daggers it was my fault of course even though I was visibly upset (though not crying) about the incident!!! The female herself used to give me bad eye whenever she saw me. (She stayed with the guy and I even saw them together recently the same scenario, her looking pinched, him smirking). You know what, I never did find out what the argument was about either.
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on Sun 20 May 2012 at 14:12:38
Unfortunately, this is a white supremacy system, which is based on giving white people more privileges and rights than non-white people. That being said, the only way to dismantle this system of gross injustice is to tell the truth about this system instead of pretending that we are not impacted by it. After reading some of the personal testimonies on this thread, it is clear that white people especially white females know they benefit more than non-whites. The real challenge is to get non-white people to understand and admit it.
Demerera @Bulanik
on Sun 20 May 2012 at 15:28:35
The sense of entitlement that some men think they have over womens bodies never fails to floor me. Yes. I felt violated and less human following this. Like, it didnt matter, he could touch me any way he wanted to to prove something to this female I never saw them even so much as exchange a kiss in public yet he could do that to me and not bat an eyelid. But we notice, too, how the game is acted out: white woman in starring role romantic lead of course. Emoting, and the only real woman on the stageand the emotional reality of the not-white woman? Marginalized. Of course. Funny, I recall telling a friend about that incident and when I described the female she said oh thats such and such such and such, we were at school together. She always maintained she hated BP and would certainly never go out with a BM @TrojanPam After reading some of the personal testimonies on this thread, it is clear that white people especially white females know they benefit more than non-whites. I remember having a discussion with a white female colleague a few years ago that links in directly to this topic. I was saying that I wouldnt mind having more children but my husband was not keen. Her response just cry and keep on crying, thats what I do until I get my own way! Naively she obviously thought this approach would work across the board but, in my experience this hasnt been the case at all.
on Tue 22 May 2012 at 03:51:19
The best way to learn about the ways of white people is from other white people. In the words of the very wise Mr. Neely Fuller, Jr.: If you dont understand white supremacy, what it is and how it works, everything else you understand will only confuse you.
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The greater understanding non-whites have of this system, the more we weaken the greatest system of deception in the history of mankind. Bottom line, our very survival rests upon having that understanding.
phoebeprunelle on Wed 23 May 2012 at 18:19:15 One thing i have learnedwhite people stick together. Even when they dont want to, they will for the greater good of white supremacy. Black people dont do thisto a large degree. When black women crymainly by the black communityit is seen as emotional. You know us black girls live for drama. You know other stuff too; we cant reason and are illogical if our feelings get hurt. What if a black woman is crying and she has very good reason too? It is like black people, both men and women are not allowed to be you knowjust people. Our feelings are not valid. Especially these emotional, unrealistic black women.
phoebeprunelle on Wed 23 May 2012 at 18:26:31 I dont even think Asian women are allowed to cry even when they need to. Especially if there are white men around because white women (the racist and insecure ones) believe that Asian womens tears are their way at tempting white men to fall for them. IME, white women can be very threatened by Asian women. I think this may apply to non white women in various ways.
truthbetold @ phoebe
on Wed 23 May 2012 at 19:14:53
White women have been threatened by us since slavery when the master would leave his white wife alone in her beautifully dressed nightgown and carefully curled locks to fornicate with his slaves. The racial aminus is ever present with white women. This can be seen with Michelle Obama when she is being attacked by white male Republicans. Im writing a post about why they keep quiet with her but defend Ms. Fluke.
TrojanPam @ truthbetold
on Wed 23 May 2012 at 20:47:02
Amen, I can second that. When Im out and about its WW that check me out from head to toe and give me the evil eye. Not bragging because I dont consider it a compliment to have WW practice racism on me. If youre a nice-looking BW with a nice figure, you have had that experience Just google the Hollywood Reporter Women in Entertainment Power List and youll see how WW have very powerful positions in the entertainment and media industries.
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Which explains why brown and dark-skinned BW are usually portrayed as obese and undesirable and why it is RARE to see a beautiful, sexually attractive dark skinned BW in TV or in the movies OR to see a BM actor loving or romancing and having sex with a BW. WW are so competitive and envious of BW that they are taking black babies (adoption AKA theft), and are rushing to have brown babies with BM. Why theyre paying thousands of dollars to plastic surgeons and the beauty industry to have bigger lips bigger butts bigger breasts darker skin curlier hair You should check out this book The Interracial Con Game which lays out the whole sexual competition from WW toward BW.
TrojanPam One more thing while Im on the topic
on Wed 23 May 2012 at 20:52:09
Have you noticed how many WM make catty and vicious comments about BWs looks? For example, Don Imus, Rush Limbaugh and Republican congressman Sensebrenner (an overweight WM) who said Michelle Obamas had a big butt? I have seen this kind of strange male hostility and jealousy in down-low males who have yet to come out of the closet. I would hazard a guess that behind a lot of this white males bashing black women is due to some hidden hostility based on the sexual threat that BW present to the down-low white male. AND their not so hidden desire to HOMOSEXUALIZE the black male. The book I mentioned in my last post also details this UNDENIABLE WM behavior.
phoebeprunelle on Thu 24 May 2012 at 01:41:03 WW are so competitive and envious of BW that they are taking black babies (adoption AKA theft), and are rushing to have brown babies with BM. Actually Welsing has a theory about this. She says more and more white women will want to mate with black men so that before they die,they will have contributed color to this world. She says that for white women, having a child of color grow in their wombs and birthing them is empowering. But, my thing is, there are enough black men in this world to go around so no need to feel all competitive. I think the American media likes to perpetuate the myth of the almost extinct decent black man. Have you noticed how many WM make catty and vicious comments about BWs looks? For example, Don Imus, Rush Limbaugh and Republican congressman Sensebrenner (an overweight WM) who said Michelle Obamas had a big butt? I beg to differ. I dont think its so much as the white men being cattyi think it is more or less feelings
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of inadequacy they have when it comes to black men that gets projected on to black women. This is because racist white men want to believe that they are the most desired males and they know that historically they have turned many black women off and that ultimately she (black woman) will prefer black men above him.
TrojanPam on Thu 24 May 2012 at 04:05:39 @ phoebeprunelle who said, But, my thing is, there are enough black men in this world to go around so no need to feel all competitive. Following that logic, there are enough resources in this world to go around but that doesnt make white people feel secure enough to stop practicing racism/white supremacy. WW are not competitive just for their individual emotional needs, they are dedicated to maintaining a system of white domination and that includes dominating AND taking any and everything that belongs to BW. It has nothing to do with supply and demand and everything to do with white supremacy and white domination. I caution us not to underestimate or be too cavalier about the damage that this competition can wreak in our lives. There is too much evidence that proves how dangerous they can be. You make a good point about the cattiness of white males toward black females and I also would add that there is a TON of hidden homosexuality among the WM population and I believe this accounts for the UN-NATURALNESS of any man who spends any time dissing womens body parts. A normal man in my opinion either likes the way a woman looks or he doesnt and if he doesnt he doesnt spend a lot of time thinking about it. He just ignores it and her. It just strikes me that a man who talks about women the way a woman would talk about a woman has got a whole lot of woman in him and maybe a pair of pantyhose underneath those slacks to boot. (And Im not referring to homosexual males who are openly homosexual). Of course, I could be wrong, but Im just saying
phoebeprunelle on Thu 24 May 2012 at 04:35:21 Following that logic, there are enough resources in this world to go around but that doesnt make white people feel secure enough to stop practicing racism/white supremacy. Exactlyhence i said i dont see the need for competition. Makes no real logical sense. A normal man in my opinion either likes the way a woman looks or he doesnt and if he doesnt he doesnt spend a lot of time thinking about it. He just ignores it and her. No, not white men, IME. Even straight white men will diss a womans body parts that he doesnt particularly find attractive. Keep in mind that white men evolved slightly different when it comes to sexual attraction than other groups of men. Their experience in the last ice age is the culprit. It just strikes me that a man who talks about women the way a woman would talk about a woman has got a whole lot of woman in him and maybe a pair of pantyhose underneath those slacks to boot.
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LOL.
TrojanPam @ phoebeprunelle
on Thu 24 May 2012 at 06:48:49
I agree, makes no logical sense to me, either, but it might to folks who are abnormally insecure and driven by the need to dominate other people and feel superior. OR a people who are afraid of genetic annihilation. Re: white men, I agree because we have different origins and different natures. Thats why youll hear white people say to each other, Stop acting like a caveman OR Hes a Neanderthal. Thats something youll never hear black or an African person say to another. Go figure..
Shieldbreaker on Mon 28 May 2012 at 04:40:27 Isnt it pretty small minded to paint the largest group of women in the united states with the same brush? I see comments stating all white women are manipulative and others implying that all white women and white people are racist and full of hate. The things that the people here and the article imply and state are the same things you hope never happen to you again. Get mad about injustices and hatemongers but dont fight racism and hate with more racism and hate. I have seen more racism on this page alone than the entire time I have lived in the south.
V-4 on Mon 28 May 2012 at 08:13:19 I would have to agree about the statement of white women being emotionally manipulative. In its own way; its interesting to see women interact with one another, whereas men have more static or solid hierarchies womens seems to be more based on water. Its always fluid and moving and so they are always saying back handed compliments, gossiping about one another behind their backs, manipulating others to do what they want.. Life for women is one constant, never ending power play or series of domination games. At least it is for white women in the south, mileage may vary elsewhere. Its honestly why I suspect marriages between white men and black women last and marriages between black men and white women tend to be more likely to fail. Stereotypically speaking black women may get angrier and be more aggressive but its honest and to the point, black women are shooting from the hip so to speak. So whatever problems exist get brought up and dealt with. With white women its lies, manipulation, deceit, back stabbing, emotional falsities, creating drama and then pretending to be innocent the whole time. White women dont just use their tears to get out of racist scenarios they literally use it on some level for almost every facet of their life.
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And that can be damn hard to deal with. By comparison the angry black women is probably a relieve to deal with, they may be angry but at least they are honest about whatever the issue is. White women on the other hand will pretend to be innocent, alter the presentation of the issue or even start a fight simply to manipulate you into doing something while not having any real complaints or care about what the fight itself was about. Or even compare angry black women to angry white women, black women usually have a reason for getting mad, whether or not its a justified level of response there is still a reason. Whereas angry white women just seem to use it as a way of dealing with every social situation and life itself. They dont do it because something specific pissed them off, they do it because thats just how they are. Hell; most women who complain about their emotions not being treated as legitimate etc..its like women can have good reasons for their emotions but men cant have good reasons for downplaying their emotions or any argument based on them?
phoebeprunelle on Mon 28 May 2012 at 16:21:51 Get mad about injustices and hatemongers but dont fight racism and hate with more racism and hate. I have seen more racism on this page alone than the entire time I have lived in the south. This is where i think you missed the mark. The posters here are to a large extent mad and fighting racism, but they are not fighting fire with fire as you seem to imply. They are fighting it with truth. At the end of the day, truth has no color, nor does it show favoritism. Truth seeks to restore balance and order to this world, but unless ALL people deal with the uncomfortable truths we are back to square one of dealing chaos and injustice. When black people discuss and try to make sense of their experience in North America with white racismit simply cannot be labeled reverse racism! You are discounting a whole groups authentic experience. For instance, when the Eastern European Jews produce films, short stories, memoirs and autobiographies, do people jump and chastize them and tell them that their experience was not what it was? Hell no. Black people are not against whitesthey are against hegemony, imperialism, and injustice. Cheers!
phoebeprunelle ^Sorry for the typos
on Mon 28 May 2012 at 16:29:35
Michelle @phoebeprunelle
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I agree with everything you said. I am tired of seeing post after post of people getting angry at experiences that others have and trying to take away from them. It sickens me to see so many self righteous people thinking that a persons life experiences dont matter. This blog site really does show the ignorance in some people. All they are doing is showing proof that racism is a real problem.
Michelle on Mon 28 May 2012 at 16:49:24 I was given a book from my therapist about marriage that actually promoted manipulation!
Michelle on Mon 28 May 2012 at 16:51:57 When I askedisnt manipulation wrong? she actually told me that some times you have to use it to get the results you want! I could not believe my ears!!!
Munira on Fri 15 Jun 2012 at 18:03:27 Abagond.. The same exact thing happened to me when I was studying abroad in England with my college group. Im Somali and I was talking to the most popular white boy in our group. Because we were living in Harry Potter castle and the guy resembled Ron.. smh. Basically he had red hair and that made him hot to all the white unattractive girls. The few pretty white girls could care less. Anyways, he had a problem of finding a place to live near campus when we would return to the U.S. (We all attended St. Cloud State University). I suggested a neighborhood near campus that was affordable. But he said it was unsafe, had neighborhood teenagers that preyed on college students and stole theyre things. He was correct Ive heard of such incidences. Out of nowhere one of is major admirers scoffed out yeah its Somali central. I was so surprised and caught of guard by her racism because that sort of thing is always said around white circles. So I politely said to her that what she said was amazingly offensive because Im Somali (I dont look Somali, but I am 100%, I look mixed race). She was shocked that she let her racism show in front of her target victim and she apologized. I knew if I didnt take her apology Id be reinforcing the stereotype that black people (girls in particular) are mean. So I sweetly took her apology. She began to silently cry, guess what, her love interest did not come to her rescue. No one did. An interesting thing happens when white women dont have anyone come to their aid, their true anger rears its ugly head. She became angry and from then on hated me. I think her dream boyfriend didnt come to her rescue because of his red hair. I know red headed white people suffer a lot of teasing and so build good characters for empathy. He also has come to my rescue a month after that incident in England when we both were absent from a party with teachers and classmates where the teacher announced that our final exam was moved to a much later time. My teacher and classmates forgot to remind me of the changed schedule but numerous individuals practically fell all over each other to get to him and let him (Mr. Ron Weasley) know of the news. I found out class was moved to 6pm at 6:30pm. I stormed the castle (pun intended) and let my fury be known that I was pissed. Nobody even noticed I was missing. The only freaking black person. Ron, real name Collin, later gave me all the answers to the test. None of the students were sorry they forgot to tell me. We spent months together, shared meals and lodgings. The teacher was extremely sorry and gave me my choice and time of when I could take the exam.
Steph on Fri 29 Jun 2012 at 02:43:58 lies, manipulation, deceit, back stabbing, emotional falsities, creating drama and then pretending
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to be innocent the whole time. EXACTLY!!! And when they trip that light fantastic, I just stare at all that sniffling and whining not saying a word until they finish. Then I turn my back and walk away. Let them run that shady game on someone new.
kowkilla on Tue 28 Aug 2012 at 14:54:00 sometimes i feel like im living on a 2d boardgame where everyone is a pawn and has moves and repeats these moves and then complains about the moves that other people make against them and/or congratulate themselves on the moves that they make.
Kendalle on Fri 14 Sep 2012 at 15:57:10 Ironically, this is quite a racist post, too! I dont really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over. Its alienating. Furthermore, if you have to be mean to stand up for your cause, then by all means, be mean! Cut into a persons soul! But for fucks sake, be sane and fair about it. If the objective is to change the way a person feels about something or point something out, your speaking tactics ought to reflect that. I recommend using the Socratic method. too Jew to be white, too white to be anything else
SW6 Kendalle,
on Fri 14 Sep 2012 at 16:45:37
part of the unspoken rules of social life is that the majority group exerts heavy influence on how the discourse on race should be conducted. The post is totally rational and a basic descriptor of a phenomenon that takes place literally and symbolically. White people (many of them) dont take a mature look at their racism or the racism of their society. It makes sense that when their racism is pointed out to them, they may react with a social tactic that restores an image of beauty and decency (of themselves) and saves face while downplaying the ugliness that they just engaged in. Despite the fact that you dont like Abagonds blanket diction style, you are disingenuous to dismiss the claim, an ordinary one in my view, that the post makes. There is nothing mean about the post. Cut into a persons soul. Abagonds mean words in his banal description of behavior he has seen is doing that? What a ridiculous piece of hyperbole. Kendalle, did you happen to notice, by the way, how the rope from the lynch mobs noose was cutting into the souls and necks of those black men? By contrast the souls of the on lookers appear quite unaffected. People just like those on lookers still exist today.
Fiamma Blu on Fri 14 Sep 2012 at 19:47:37 I dont really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over. -Point taken.
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I for one have never viewed the many blanket statements coming from whites (and others) about Blacks Black women in particular as attempts at winning over Black peopleyet, they make those statements anyway. Maybe it wasnt the notion of winning Blacks over that they had in mind after all.
brothawolf Kendall said,
on Fri 14 Sep 2012 at 20:17:02
Ironically, this is quite a racist post, too! I dont really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over. Its alienating. Furthermore, if you have to be mean to stand up for your cause, then by all means, be mean! Cut into a persons soul! But for fucks sake, be sane and fair about it. If the objective is to change the way a person feels about something or point something out, your speaking tactics ought to reflect that. I recommend using the Socratic method. Lets point out the usual replies that make everything wrong with this reply: 1. Pointing out racism is racist. 2. Reverse racism is shown. 3. The Tone Argument is apparent. 4. Privileged pain is present.
Matari on Fri 14 Sep 2012 at 20:42:47 Ironically, this is quite a racist post, too! I dont really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over. Its alienating. ************* Dont think that the purpose of this blog is to WIN whites over. It isnt. Mere, or even exceptional words, have never been able to stop racism/white supremacy. This site exists to inform, confirm, vindicate and give voice to *OUR* experiences, feelings, understanding, observations, frustrations, realizations about what, how, who and why these things happen to *us* in a racist white supremacist, over-privileged global network. We are not here to woo you. White feelings are not center stage here.
Herneith Hey Kendalle, were you crying as you posted that response?
on Sat 15 Sep 2012 at 00:30:11
abagond @ Kendalle
on Sat 15 Sep 2012 at 01:22:40
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Ironically, this is quite a racist post, too! I dont really think writing blanket statements about a race and even honing in on a gender is going to win people over. Its alienating. Furthermore, if you have to be mean to stand up for your cause, then by all means, be mean! Cut into a persons soul! But for fucks sake, be sane and fair about it. If the objective is to change the way a person feels about something or point something out, your speaking tactics ought to reflect that. I recommend using the Socratic method. So like if I wrote a post condemning the Holocaust would you recommend using the Socratic method so that I do not alienate Germans and cut into their souls? http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/the-feelings-of-white-people/ http://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/i-do-not-write-this-blog-for-white-people/
brothawolf on Sat 15 Sep 2012 at 03:59:11 Oh! I forgot another fail with Kendalles statement: Telling a blogger what and how he should write because he feels entitled to.
phoebeprunelle on Wed 7 Nov 2012 at 15:27:35 Although this was not a case of white women cryingit may as well have been I am one of only two black girls in my programeveryone else is white. My licensure partner is one of the white girlsby most standards she is average in attractiveness. She confided in me one day that she has never had a serious relationship with a man and that she was concerned about this. She asked me had i ever had any problems in datingi told her that i was already married and she beamed. She then asked me to help her find someone. I could only suspect that she meant a black guy. When i told her that black guys were the men i knew personally she said she was open and that she really didnt know what she liked and that as long as he was Christian, athletic and tall was all that mattered. I agreed to help herlooking back i should have realized this was an experiment on her part. The hard part and strange part about all of this is that when i would tell potential brothers that she was whitethey would get shakey. Some even said I dont know about all thatlet me think about it or Weeeeelllll followed by a long excuse. I finally asked a married brother i worked with who said he may know someone who would be interested but to produce a picture so they could exchange. When i told my white classmate she agreedbut then by the weekend she sent me an e-mail saying thanks but no thanks.. Since then, in class she has the intention of letting me know that her mentor has helped her find a decent white man. This is the part i think is hilariousshe also has stopped inviting me to their drinking outings on Friday after classnot that i cared that much anywayremember i have a husband to go home and hang out with! My husband was baffled by all thishis theory is that she did not expect that black peopleespecially black womenhad wholesome values when it comes to choosing a mate and that she was only expecting a booty-call and when she saw that that is not how black people operateher whiteness kicked in.
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Funny because most of the sisters i have shared this with have chastised me about it by saying i shouldnt have agreed to help her in the first place. Very odd as i still dont know whether it was a hoax on her part???
ALCHEMIST on Wed 7 Nov 2012 at 23:46:50 @phoebeprunelle You should have just told her that helping her find a hookup is not part of your skill set nor is doing her laundry or washing her dishes. You are not her mammy. Caring white womens water is bad on the lower back.
Iris on Thu 8 Nov 2012 at 01:53:09 So if you really had to give a talk to a White woman about her racism (and its impossible to stop seeing them because theyre connected to you through family) what could you do if they start crying and acting all sorry for themselves the moment you try to explain why youre upset with their behaviour and politely ask them to stop? I think she is trying to get closer to me by talking about race, but shes so ignorant and privileged (and old, so comes from a time when more racist things were acceptable), everything that comes out of her mouth is outrageously offensive. I have been thinking of telling her that she either does more research into the topic of race and racism in society, or stops trying to talk to me about race because everything she says is offensive and she doesnt even seem to realise (or maybe she does, but thats another story). The last time she said something I narrowed my eyes and raised an eyebrow and she got wide-eyed and shaky. So Im concerned she will simply burst out crying when I say that, even if it is a reasonable request that doesnt really accuse her of anything.
Gen on Thu 8 Nov 2012 at 07:35:40 Iris youre up the creek on that one. Ive had to cut off friends but in that case I had a choice. My pool of patience ran out even faster when I realized I was being resented for resenting ignorant bs.
edmiidz on Thu 8 Nov 2012 at 23:42:40 Feminine racism. Interesting topic. Ive seen traits like this in Japanese women too. Im sure sub-Saharan women never do this. I think to get rid of any bad-habit, if I can classify racism as a bad-habit, you need to see the benefits of it. For example, gossip gives a temporary bond, even if in the long term, you lose the trust of your partner in crime, as theyll never know when youre going to gossip about them. Large quantities of fat and sugar give short term physical comfort, with long term health risks. Racism meets a basic need to feel superior, without having to differentiate oneself with legitimate effort. Im better than you because someone from my tribe invented the telephone, performed the first heart-transplant, won the most olympic gold medals or nobel prizes (as the case may be). The long term result is, isolating friends (like Iriss elderly friend), creating enemies and generally stunting ones own personal growth and opportunities.
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However hating haters is not the answer. So many people jump on the burn the racist bandwagon, to overcompensate for their suppressed racism. If you dont recognize the racism within, then you can never help anyone else with their racism problem. @Abagond, Thanks for a provocative post, which is still getting new ideas two years later.
drush76 on Wed 5 Dec 2012 at 17:18:52 ["As Ive written before, Abagond, the cornerstone of white supremacy IS the white female. White womens tears are effectively a call to arms to noble white men to put some uppity Negro in his place, or to comfort them from the masculine wrath of the angry Black female. Jesus, has your country got some issues to work through or what???? Menelik Charles London England"] You need to take a good long look at your own country. Because youre not any better.
Nina There is a lot of reverse racism on this board.
on Sun 13 Jan 2013 at 05:39:13
Honestly I believe the reason some asians races are so generally well received and integrated into any system is that regardless of what socioeconomic background we come from, rich or dirt poor, we tend to keep our heads down, mind our own business, and work our asses off instead of complain or pass blame. I think people generally perceive those as good qualities. Time is the most precious commodity and generally theres NO time for thinking deeply about forbears that were in camps or murdered or even things that have happened to me, as I detailed in my previous post. We keep our focus. We know if we dont achieve, our parents will literally kick our asses into the ground as wed have, in the worst way, dishonored them and the sacrifices of their parents and so on. One time, I tried to reason with my dad that I didnt get a commitment done because the teacher assigning work was a vacuous and vague moron and because my parents had asked me to babysit my brothers the same night I was supposed to complete the project. My brothers didnt get their work done either, and my parents held me responsible for my lack of leadership and their mistakes. Guess who got a severe beating for having a sub intelligent instructor and undisciplined brothers? I did. Because there are no excuses and as an older sister, I set the example. My little brothers transgressions are mine and mine are my older sisters. There were six asians in my high school class (two Japanese, one Chinese, three Taiwanese, and three were scholarship kids) and every one of them has matured to really make something of their lives. A few of them are doing extraordinary things and are in the news. I also have a black friend from graduate school who was orphaned, came from a very impoverished background but has a life outlook very similar to mine. She is in her early thirties and has done well for herself, making multiple millions a year in salary. She has never been passed up for a promotion because shes black; in fact, I think being African American, female, and ridiculously savvy has been a big boon, if one were to analyze her situation. She is dedicated, gets along with everyone, and the white employers in her mostly white company have proudly put her front and center of their projects. In her search for the
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right guy, she has dated men of every race and is now engaged to an equally successful black entrepreneur. I firmly believe if you waste time thinking about the limitations other people may or may not see in you, its no good. Who cares anyway? Forget about race and rely on your present strengths and just work hard. Like I said, I have never seen racial delineations until the the very brutal experience I had when I was a teenager. As bad as it gets I have never allowed that and my being asian to define how I see myself. In fact, the only time I get depressed about that period these days is when I have nightmares or too much time to sit around and and start knocking around what happened in my head, which is a rare thing. I suffered a terrible hate crime and have worked hard to get over it. I rarely talk about my experience, ever. Its way too loaded for me. Also if I were stuck in the past always examining what other terrible things happened in my family historically (a lot of political persecution and executions), I would never make any progress and I would not be where I am today. Plus thats not the stuff I want to pass to my children. Maybe its time for the people to stop arguing about racial semantics, let go of who did what to our grandparents, great grandparents, etc. Instead we can try minding our own business and work to make our own dreams come true. It works for asian americans.
Nina on Sun 13 Jan 2013 at 06:25:37 Actually please dont post my first comment that is in moderation. Its still a very raw experience for me after all these years and I decided I would rather not have it in public. My pt is that racism doesnt just exist in a white on black vacuum. Black people can also be very racist towards asians and other races.
Nina on Sun 13 Jan 2013 at 07:39:37 Finally, in reference to your post, I have never seen any of my white female friends cry, except twice, when one lost her wedding ring and another got married. Heck, I havent cried since I was fifteen, but then, Im not white, but I did grow up among white friends. As ridiculous as this may be to you folks, its true. My friends, both male and female, are a mostly white, with some racial mix. We are tough, high achieving group by any standards, and were generally emotionally stoic. By your theory, the many white females I know would be outliers in their lack of racist comments. My friends tend to judge others more by their achievements and contributions. None of my friends even talk about race, and I have experienced violent black on asian hate crime, so I would have something really valid to complain about, if that were my aim. To me, thats just self indulgence. My husband and I are in the middle of our first vacation in a year and I just somehow stumbled into this crazy page earlier. Its so out there and misguided that I had to say something. I have never seen a white woman cry to exact sympathy for a racist comment. I have seen all KINDS of people on here making racist comments and wasting time better spent improving themselves and getting things done than complaining about others. A lot of this is not about racism but maturity if you think about it. Stop spreading further division and hate.
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Aaron on Thu 31 Jan 2013 at 23:52:59 Abagond, what percentage of white women in the world would you say show this type of behavior? What percentage of American white women?
fiamma blu Nina writes:
on Fri 1 Feb 2013 at 01:28:37
I have seen all KINDS of people on here making racist comments and wasting time better spent improving themselves and getting things done than complaining about others. -Nina, why not take your own advice and stop wasting time which would be better spent improving yourself and getting things done rather than coming here and complaining about others???
Sondis I see what you did there @ fiamma blu lol
on Fri 1 Feb 2013 at 02:32:35
Nina is nothing more, than a honorary white, that only has white friends and from the sound of it, embraced white culture to be accepted. Here is another of abagonds articles, that describes Nina to the T!! https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/20/the-white-club/ We know your type, Nina. Youre nothing new to the readers of this blog.
sharina on Fri 1 Feb 2013 at 03:02:26 For someone so achieving and intelligent she completely missed the point of the blog. Hmmm
sharina @ Nina
on Fri 1 Feb 2013 at 03:30:35
How long did it take you to write your essay of a response to this blog? I bet not long, so what makes you believe that it takes time away from peoples daily activities or improving themselves as you put it? You played into one of the biggest stereotypes out there and was not smart enough to realize it. Secondly I dont think the blog is just refering to crying in the literal sense, but rather when the individual plays victim to avoid said wrong. Sad part is I didnt read the blog thoroughly and got that much.
tehnoun on Fri 1 Feb 2013 at 04:17:54 @Nina Dear, you seem to have missed the entire point of the post. Abagond is not talking about literal tears, and if youd read it you probably would have understood what he was actually saying. Please try again after youve actually bothered to learn anything about what youre trying to
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guilt trip everyone on.
Kiwi on Fri 1 Feb 2013 at 08:57:20 Unfortunately, I used to think the way Nina does. I had the honorary white mentality. My entire family is like that and honestly, I find it disgusting. My family places so much faith and trust in white people and looks down shamelessly on blacks. If you look at history, blacks never did anything wrong to Asia while whites conquered, raped, looted, and destroyed it. My parents say whites made them rich. Ironically, if it werent for whites, China would be rich and I would live there instead. If you beat down a dog and you give it food, its still loyal to you. Do you see the twisted irony?
Jay The most racist people I know are the blacks.
on Mon 4 Feb 2013 at 02:03:44
Pickyheaded gyal on Thu 7 Feb 2013 at 15:36:14 That first comment made by Menelik Charles: As Ive written before, Abagond, the cornerstone of white supremacy IS the white female. White womens tears are effectively a call to arms to noble white men to put some uppity Negro in his place, or to comfort them from the masculine wrath of the angry Black female. Jesus, has your country got some issues to work through or what???? Menelik Charles London England I agreed with you until you said..Your country !!!!???!! lol Black British women go through the exact identical effed up process with white women and racism in the Uk. Remember England invented America, so we live in the eye of the beast! Only difference is that Black British men are with White women so much so that you end up staring at black couples because they seem like such a strange occurance. Unless they are christian or foreign, young Black British couples are RARE and yet Black British women are expected to be cool with it all? If you are a Black woman in the western hemisphere and racism happens to inevitably cross your path understand that you are on your own.noone will come to your defense. Its almost as if alot of Black men dont see how Black women are effected by racism, it as if many Black men think that BM are the only ones that racism effects and that white men are there only enemy? Sexism and Racism combined aint that a bitch. If a white woman feels aggrieved you the Black woman are expected to pay. You cannot work with or be friends with or have a relationship with people who think that they are superior to you, it doesnt work if you have self respect. Its all about being self employed and moving to a majority black country someday. A Black British woman from Nottingham England
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Gbaby on Sat 9 Mar 2013 at 18:18:34 hahaha wow that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard! The sapphire stereotype is true for a large portion of black women, why do you think black guys wont even date black girls!?
http://itcertificationprograms.org/what-states-accept-a-florida- on Thu 9 May 2013 at 04:53:51 firefighter-and-emt-certification/ Once the game is 80% complete you will need to work on the sound. Then came the ultra-popular Arkham games, that place you, like never before, into Batmans shoes as he skulks around and knocks hoodlums heads together (literaly). People are now looking to be able to connect to things like their vehicles through their smart phones, and now Buick has announced the release of their new e Assist Fuel Effeciency smartphone games.
Rick Marauderdad Buddhuu Cadger on Sun 23 Jun 2013 at 10:08:46 Interesting piece. Ive not seen that behaviour personally, but that *kind* of behaviour seems very familiar from TV debates and Internet discussions. I get the extra potency it may have when exhibited by a woman, but plenty of men try the wounded Racist? Moi?mantle on for size. There is plenty of racism in both directions. It seems to me that black-against-white racism is simply a reaction to history and to persistent prejudice that remains all too common today. Whiteagainst-black racism was the original template. It is fuelled by the inexplicable, arrogant superiority complex of affluent white Europeans and their former colonial descendants. This is made all the more shameful by the fact that much of the wealth that bolsters that smug superiority was acquired at the expense or indigenous peoples whom we ripped off. Sorry, Im rambling without focus here. A last note: I was surprised to see so many replies wasted on the Alan BStard M P troll earlier. From the username and from the URL linked from his sig, it was evident that the person dropped by simply to piss everyone off.
Peanut on Mon 24 Jun 2013 at 03:40:34 I just saw this clip of antm of a racist white girl crying and I thought that id post it here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2010/09/09/americas-next-top-model-racist-journal.html
Gina on Mon 24 Jun 2013 at 03:48:31 I have to laugh when anyone writes that white women are oppressed and lays white supremacy/oppression at the feet of white men. Many fellow black women AND Black men have had to fight for their jobs or lost their jobs not because of white men, but because of white WOMEN! When I was younger in a 90% or more white environment and think back now, while there were many nice white women, the most miserable, meanest people I can remember were white adult women who said things to me or treated me differently.
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White women are no nicer or black friendly than white men! The only reason is that republicans tend to want to put programs in place that appear anti-feminist or anti-woman rights, thats why white women vote Democrat, but not because they disagree with white supremacy. Its just like with many Hispanics, they are no less racist but only because of what Republicans want to do do they vote democrat.
Gina Nina,
on Mon 24 Jun 2013 at 03:52:49
I watched my mother come home, sit around, depressed after work on two different occasions because she was being harassed by a white woman at work. Both occasions, the white women were able to harass her ( for being black) and get her fired. I have dealt with it on the job as well. The white men there were hating but so were the white women. Very hateful and anti-black. Alot of whites hate blacks merely because we look different from them and will try to deny you an opportunity or get you fired merely because we/they are black. We are not making this up. Its easy for you to tell us not to talk about race but thats not a reality we have ever been able to see. Where race didnt matter! Its not us blacks but whites who have the race problem. We will be able to stop discussing race and racism/race-hate/racial oppression/unequality when whites STOP THE RACISM the vast majority practice.
Gina TrojanPam,
on Mon 24 Jun 2013 at 04:03:15
good post. I too believe many White men want to homosexualize Black men along with marginalize Black women. This is a phenomenon I have experienced since being around whites and find white women participate. Its a sick thing that goes along with their racism. Yes, white men often act more aggressive to black women in a way that feels un-natural because in the company of black men AND Black women, white men often turn to harass the black woman, which to me is odd. They also always want to make black women feel unwanted. I have noticed this since I first went to a heavily white college. It was as if white men did not want black men to find black women attractive, heck, they didnt want anyone to find black women attractive, not even themselves. Re: One more thing while Im on the topic Have you noticed how many WM make catty and vicious comments about BWs looks? For example, Don Imus, Rush Limbaugh and Republican congressman Sensebrenner (an overweight WM) who said Michelle Obamas had a big butt?
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I have seen this kind of strange male hostility and jealousy in down-low males who have yet to come out of the closet. I would hazard a guess that behind a lot of this white males bashing black women is due to some hidden hostility based on the sexual threat that BW present to the down-low white male. AND their not so hidden desire to HOMOSEXUALIZE the black male. The book I mentioned in my last post also details this UNDENIABLE WM behavior.
Peanut on Mon 24 Jun 2013 at 04:38:16 my mother too complains about white women giving her a hard time on the job. not all white women behave this way, but she has told me several times where passive aggressive and racist incidents have occured
Adeen @Peanut
on Mon 24 Jun 2013 at 04:58:37
I go to school and many White women there are always aggressive to me in one way or another. It was horrible my freshmen year of high school with the bullying. Most White women, I have come across in my town, think that they are better than me and look down on me. They treat the bigger Black women with more respect than me and I dont understand why. Many of them look at me as if I am a threat to me because of my existence. @Gina Hello, there, White women arent more Black friendly than White men. White women is actually used as a tool to promote White supremacy and actually a lot like their White men. Of course not all Whites are like that. Many are.
Brothawolf Adeen,
on Mon 24 Jun 2013 at 09:20:28
It was like that growing up in my high school. Many white women there were stuck-up not only to black girls but blacks period. A lot of them look at me as some typical dumb wanna-be thug. I could tell they were afraid of me. Though there were some that were cool.
Peanut here is a blog that discussed hypocrisy and white women privilege: http://whitegirlprivilege101.tumblr.com/
on Tue 25 Jun 2013 at 19:32:42
Dorkness Supreme on Wed 26 Jun 2013 at 14:16:18 I have to be really deep cover for this, but the ignorant Ive never seen it! comment on the FB page made me do it. Yeah, Ive seen it . Ive seen it in a boardroom full of white people. Ive seen a fellow white female director when confronted with a serious and systemic defect in her workflow processes break down crying and accuse others of attacking her personally as a ploy to garner sympathy from the male CEO and deflect the issue, which was the issue, not her personally. It worked. That process is still
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flawed and customers still suffer for it. Now before anyone should hew and cry that this nothing to do with race, imagine that female director a black woman. That outburst would have been considered crazy, weak, a show of mental illness or incompetence instead of the manipulation and disgusting strategy of deflection it was. If you want a definition of white female privilege, there you have it. Youve seen it, but if youre white you probably thought it was good old fashioned chivalry.
B on Wed 26 Jun 2013 at 15:03:57 And Im sure white women are NEVER actually discriminated against. Where is the literature about people of color fulfilling the stereotype and discriminating back? I am someone who sees no color and surely I do not understand discrimination by any means but I feel as though the ability to claim one is being racially discriminated against is abused. There are certainly minority groups discriminated against as a result of literature that speaks to white, middle-class males, however there are other means of unfair treatment beyond skin color. I am fairly young so I wasnt raised when explicit racism was on at an all time high however I sit in classes and listen to certain minority groups play he victim card all the time. Should I apologize for being white?
k on Wed 26 Jun 2013 at 17:20:37 is this article not just as racist as what the author is complaining about?
ceejay on Wed 26 Jun 2013 at 18:17:54 Insightful post especially in light of recent developments concerning Paula Dean.
lifelearner on Wed 26 Jun 2013 at 18:44:20 Yep Ceejay- Paula Deen is the newest posterboy for WWT> http://www.cnn.com/2013/06 /26/showbiz/paula-deen/index.html
abagond @k
on Wed 26 Jun 2013 at 19:19:27
Racism needs to be called out. Letting it go unchallenged, giving it a pass, is MORE racist.
Heidi on Wed 26 Jun 2013 at 20:21:21 Just discovered you through a FB group Im on. Your post clearly spells the issues of racism out. Im reading Devil in the Grove which highlights a case in Groveland, FL in the 1940s where a white woman falsely cried rape and blacks were killed because of it. We as white people, need to educate ourselves more instead of protect ourselves from being accused of being racist. Read some real history (remember, history is written by the victors, and in schools in the US, its all written from the white, male perspective).
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Instead of running off and crying like a tween, apologize and learn how to be a better person. Knowledge is power. And, white privilege can be used for good or evil. It all comes down to choices and whether you want to live a life filled with love, or fear and hate.
Adeen @Heidi
on Wed 26 Jun 2013 at 22:45:10
This whole blog points out the hypocrisy and racism of White America and how it affects Blacks and minorities. This blog also dignifies and respects the beauty of Black women while NOT disrespecting White womens beauty. Yes, racism is an issue in America but many people, Black and White arent honest enough to accept the fact that racism is still a problem in AmeriKKKlan.
Adeen on Wed 26 Jun 2013 at 22:54:36 White women are considered the epitome of beauty in AmeriKKKlan. Back in the Jim Crow era and earlier, White men in power felt that they should protect White women from the savage beast that is Black men. So if a White woman complained of a Black male flirting with her or raping her, all hell broke loose and they would go in the Black Community and lynch and kill Blacks. Even to this day when a White woman is down, she is comforted and uplifted thus the effect of White womans tears.
King of Trouble on Thu 27 Jun 2013 at 01:30:50 If we were playing a card game WWT would be the ultimate trump card. The get out of jail card of life. If you are a black man around this you had better find your Briar Rabbit. I am not sure a Black Woman can escape it. I have seen few black women bodies laid out for the altar of shame because they have confronted it. Just ask the Greeks, Helen of Troy your tears made a red river flow. If anything confronting it you would end up like Cassandra. Those tears more precious than rare stones it seems. That is why the media is often inundated with them. White girls kidnapped, Jessica Lynch vs Shosana Johnson, Jon Bonnet Ramsey, Adams mother(son of the host of Americans Most Wanted). Lindsey Lohan who always seems to escape long prison times. The shortest vs in the Bible Jesus Wept and I can say, So do I. However, I still believe they can just Cry me a River, because I dont give a hoot over them. Dangerous as those tears are. I do not think all white women are this way but the ones who are shadows are long and encompassing.
jefe WWT might not help Paula Deen this time.
on Thu 27 Jun 2013 at 09:43:49
phoebeprunelle on Thu 27 Jun 2013 at 13:53:11 there were some white women crying over Blackpeoplemeet.com. They deemed the site unfair to them in their online dating searches for Black men. Although the site never discriminated based on skin color, i think they were griping because many of the Black men that joined up were looking for Black single women in their areastherefore, the white
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women were not a commodity in this venue I dont think white women in this case were all that interested in meeting Black mentheylike white mencouldnt stand the thought of being excluded so it drove them nuts. White women will even get upset over Black women at work who have healthy, functional and close friendships with each other. It is really a sick and pathological pattern that any one who is willing to look at gendered racism can see.
mary burrell on Thu 27 Jun 2013 at 23:09:53 Paula Deen was crying some white womans tears this week. Shaking my head.
Cake Diva on Sun 7 Jul 2013 at 02:51:13 That picture is sobering because white womens tears have gotten black men lynched, but yet black men still run behind a white women, not realizing that even in 2013, those tears can still get him killed.
Kiwi on Sat 13 Jul 2013 at 10:01:20 When I think of the B-word, I only think of white women. Or Asian women who are white on the inside. Does this make me sexist? The B-word never crosses my mind when I see a minority female. Weird
Rick Miller on Mon 15 Jul 2013 at 03:57:02 White women cry because they have souls and feelings. Hence human.
Rick Miller on Mon 15 Jul 2013 at 03:58:28 Oh yea before I forget, the women present and smiling were probably the rape victims.
Kiwi on Mon 15 Jul 2013 at 04:02:38 LOL The rape victims are smiling because they have souls and feelings. Cuz getting raped is something to smile about. Classic. I cant wait to tell my friends this one.
Brothawolf Rick Miller, Are you white?
on Mon 15 Jul 2013 at 04:15:45
Einiel on Mon 15 Jul 2013 at 04:48:43 Wow. You are stereotyping all white women into one category. Most white women I know first would not be accused of racism. Secondly if they were they would not be reduced to tears. The lynching photo from the 1930s is horrific. Isnt that what you want to happen to
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Zimmerman. Justice by the people? Whether or not he is innocent or guilty? Justice taken into your own hands because of your hate? Zimmerman is not white, he is a minority himself. You are stepping into the shoes of the whites in the photo you posted, being the people filled with fear and hate. You have this website to list your hate for white people and how unfair our country is, yet we have a President who is African American and leaders in Congress and the Senate and businesses across the country who are African American. We have all come a long way since 1930, since 1960, since 1990. Do you believe you are not racist?
Why Juror B37 Needs to Save Her Tears | Black! Not White Dipped in Chocolate [] *Cries Tears* []
on Tue 16 Jul 2013 at 21:18:12
Parenting Through Privilege: Resources and Education | Natural on Sun 21 Jul 2013 at 16:24:13 Parents Network [] This post explores the negative, and unhelpful reactions some white people exhibit in response to discussing topics around race and the impacts of their own behaviors/actions. []
MoodScope on Sun 21 Jul 2013 at 17:14:17 White women cry because they have souls and feelings. Hence human. White women because most of them are used to playing the victim, and they get results from it.
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white womens tears | Abagond

white womens tears

white womens tears | Abagond

white womens tears | Abagond

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 07:08:59

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 08:04:57

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 11:04:49

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 11:19:25

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 14:53:35

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 15:17:46

white womens tears | Abagond

Ankhesen Mi BRILLIANT post, Abagond. As always (getting linkedas always).

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 15:53:31

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 15:57:59

white womens tears | Abagond

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 18:33:19

white womens tears | Abagond

J Menelik, Cheers for the link

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 19:16:33

Will One name comes to mind: Elisabeth Hasslebeck.

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 19:50:03

leigh204 @Will: One name comes to mind: Elisabeth Hasslebeck.

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 21:03:48

white womens tears | Abagond

dalaran @Leigh OH GOD THAT THE VIEW EPISODE

on Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 21:11:31

white womens tears | Abagond

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 01:04:00

white womens tears | Abagond

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 02:00:10

white womens tears | Abagond

SW6 peanut said:

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 02:35:36

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 04:09:28

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 11:40:10

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 13:46:27

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 14:29:28

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 19:35:27

leigh204 LOL! Nice going Nicole, er, I mean, Andrew.

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 19:39:39

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 20:19:38

white womens tears | Abagond

on Sun 13 Jun 2010 at 23:39:10

on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 06:10:04

LMAO season premier of my favorite show watch from 8:40 to 9:30

white womens tears | Abagond

on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 13:53:57

white womens tears | Abagond

on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:05:25

on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:18:35

white womens tears | Abagond

Natasha W Because they are racists? Lol.

on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:36:51

on Mon 14 Jun 2010 at 15:39:10