THE HON MATT THISTLETHWAITE MP

SHADOW PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY FOR FOREIGN

AFFAIRS
SHADOW PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY FOR
IMMIGRATION
MEMBER FOR KINGSFORD SMITH
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS SATURDAY AGENDA
SATURDAY, 10 MAY 2014
SUBJECT/S: Disability Support Pension, Business Tax, Polls, Debt Tax,
Senate Reform
DAVID LIPSON: First to you Matt Thistlethwaite, are too many people on disability
support payments at the moment?
MATT THISTLETHWAITE, SHADOW PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY FOR
FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND IMMIGRATION: Well look David, when we were in
government we undertook a review of the Disability Support Pension and ensured it
was meeting its obe!tives" #abor always believes in the empowerment of work for
people with disabilities and we put in pla!e a number of programs to ensure that
those people in the $ustralian e!onomy that !ould work with disability had the
opportunities to, so that%s done through intensive support programs, through
employment servi!e providers, it%s done by ensuring that the ne!essary payments
are there to support people to not only find work but to have modifi!ations to obs,
and businesses to ensure that that work is sustainable into the future"
LIPSON: Do you agree though with Tony $bbott that more people parti!ularly young
people under &' is what this audit will fo!us on !an be in his words en!ouraged ba!k
into the work for!e?
THISTLETHWAITE: Well we%ll have to wait and see the details of what%s being
proposed but as ( said when #abor was in government we took a number of reforms
that saw many more people living with disabilities in our !ommunity get into
employment" What (%m really !on!erned about with this budget however David is the
re!ommendations we%ve seen from the )ommission of $udit about the *ational
Disability (nsuran!e S!heme" +ou see, the approa!h to disability that #abor took was
a whole of government approa!h ensuring that there was the ne!essary support
there for people who wanted to work through intensive employment programs but
also that there was the ne!essary home support through *D(S pa!kages that was
being delivered to people with disabilities and the )ommission of $udit
re!ommendations are to slow down the roll out of the *ational Disability (nsuran!e
S!heme" (f that%s the approa!h the $bbott ,overnment is going to take then that%s
not the way we should be supporting people with disabilities parti!ularly en!ouraging
them into work"
LIPSON: -kay, we%re going to bring in $lan Tudge in ust a moment but ( ust want to
move on before we do to !orporate welfare be!ause reports as well in today%s
papers that ./0 billion worth of welfare for business will also fa!e the !hop under 1oe
2o!key%s budget" (s that something that #abor will support s!aling ba!k some of the
money that the ,overnment hands out to businesses around $ustralia, Matt
Thistlethwaite?
THISTLETHWAITE: We need to see the details if you%re talking about reforming
some of the support and in!entives that are there for business, they%re big !hanges
and we%d need to see the details, but again no mention of this prior to the ele!tion,
but the ,overnment !ampaigned and Tony $bbott made it a fo!al point of his
!ampaign to beat up the notion of a budget emergen!y in $ustralia but at the same
time say that there would be no !hanges to the pension, no !hanges to edu!ation, to
the $3) and no ta4 in!reases, yet that%s e4a!tly what we%re fa!ing the prospe!t of on
Tuesday night" So we%ll hold this ,overnment to a!!ount to the obligations that they
put forward to the $ustralian publi! prior to the ele!tion and that means they should
hold their !ommitments to no ta4 in!reases"
LIPSON: -kay, lets bring in $lan Tudge now who oins us from our Melbourne
studio" We%ve ust been talking about welfare for business and the pension and also
of !ourse disability support, an audit in today%s papers that may be !ondu!ted $lan
Tudge ust first on disability support, do you think too many people are on disability
welfare payments?
ALAN TUDGE: ,ood morning David, great to be on your program, the issue with the
Disability Support Pension is that it is growing very rapidly, there%s more than
500,000 people on it presently and that%s growing by the tens of thousands ea!h
year" The essential problem with the DSP is that it doesn%t re!ognise peoples overall
!apa!ity if you like or their !apabilities and what we would like to do is to ensure that
those who are able to work are en!ouraged to do so rather than at the moment the
system tends to put a person on the Disability Support Pension and then if you like
set and forget and leave them for a very long time even though there might be a
willingness, a desire and a !apa!ity to at least make some !ontribution"
LIPSON: Why is there ust a fo!us a!!ording to these reports today on people under
&', what about the rest of the $ustralians that are on these payments?
TUDGE: #isten, ( don%t want to spe!ulate in terms of what%s going to be announ!ed
in the budget David but !learly with younger people we want to ensure that every
young person as mu!h as possible is earning or learning to their ma4imum e4tent
be!ause those that are on welfare of any des!ription for any length of time to get
ba!k onto employment subse6uent to that is very very diffi!ult, so our aim is to try to
ensure that young people are never on welfare that they are indeed earning or
learning from day one so that they !an have a ri!h and vibrant life and !an !ontribute
to the !ommunity ust like anybody else"
LIPSON: -kay, well lets take a look at the Fairfa478ea!hTel Polls that are out today
in the papers, the two party preferred aren%t good news for the ,overnment but that%s
to be e4pe!ted, also to be e4pe!ted ( suppose is that the maority of $ustralians don%t
want to work until they%re 90 surprise:surprise" ;5 per !ent of people don%t support
lifting the pension age to 90, only </ per !ent do support it but ( thought this one was
more interesting the debt ta4 '= per !ent of those polled by 8ea!hTel now support it,
only &< per !ent are opposed now" Matt Thistlethwaite, has the ,overnment
su!!eeded in selling its message here?
THISTLETHWAITE: Well the ,overnment%s su!!eeded in breaking a promise David,
again before the ele!tion Tony $bbott was very !lear, so was 1oe 2o!key, no
in!reases to ta4es and that%s e4a!tly what this defi!it levy is, it%s an in!rease in
ta4ation, it%s not supported by #abor, it has the potential to harm domesti! demand in
our e!onomy, if you look at the elements of domesti! demand whi!h has been 6uite
volatile in our e!onomy at the moment some of the stronger performing areas are
areas su!h as sales of new !ars, !onstru!tion : parti!ularly home !onstru!tion, a
defi!it levy like this !ould put a dampener on the sale of a new !ar, on the renovation
of a family home and that will affe!t demand and affe!t obs and that%s why it%s not
supported by #abor"
LIPSON: $lan Tudge has the ,overnment not!hed up a win already?
TUDGE: ( don%t want to spe!ulate on the polls nor do ( want to spe!ulate on the
pre!ise details of what will be in the budget" $s you know there we do have a plan to
in!rease the pension out to 90 but bear in mind it%s already lo!ked in to in!rease to
the age of ;9 by <0<& and our proposal would be to in!rease it to the age of 90 by
<0&'" *ow by that time almost any person who is eligible for the pension would have
been working for a long time and would%ve been re!eiving superannuation for almost
their entire life so by that stage most people indeed would have a nest egg of
superannuation whi!h they will be able to rely upon and that was indeed the overall
agenda of superannuation going many de!ades ba!k now"
LIPSON: $nd ust very briefly $lan Tudge on the debt ta4 spe!ifi!ally on this poll
today?
TUDGE: -h listen again ( don%t want to !omment on the spe!ifi!s of the poll or what
might or might not be in the budget but most of the media spe!ulation today is
referring to the absolute upper in!ome band whi!h !onstitutes two or three per !ent
of the population so that%s what we%re talking about here in terms of what the media
is spe!ulating so lets ust put that into some perspe!tive"
LIPSON: -kay, well ( want to look now at the proposed !hanges to the way Senate
ele!tions happen in this !ountry, the !hanges from well a tri:partisan oint !ommittee
that would see if implemented as e4pe!ted an end to well those giant ballot papers
for a start as well as to the run of su!!ess from the so:!alled mi!ro parties, optional
preferential voting above and below the line would be part of these !hanges and also
a tripling of the number of members to a!hieve party status" ( want to bring in the so:
!alled preferen!e whisperer ,lenn Druery to our !onversation now, ,lenn Druery
thanks for oining us on Saturday $genda, these reforms are really aimed at putting
you out of a ob aren%t they?
GLENN DRUERY: These reforms are really aimed at disenfran!hising five million
$ustralians that voted for parties other than the maors"
LIPSON: 3ut you%re one of the only people who understands the way that votes
a!tually go in Senate ele!tions that%s why people pay you to look at these sorts of
things, for e4ample 8i!ky Muir from the Motoring >nthusiasts Party was ele!ted
with "0&'= per !ent of the vote, it%s for many people ust blind faith voting in these
Senate ele!tions isn%t it?
DRUERY: "0'/ per !ent a!tually for 8i!ky Muir, look we have a politi!al system at
the moment in this !ountry that does allow ordinary people to enter the politi!al
pro!ess, you don%t ne!essarily have to be a party ha!k, or a fa!tional warrior, or a
bran!h sta!ker, ordinary people like 8i!ky Muir who knows what it means to work,
who knows what it means to be unemployed and to pay his rent !an enter the
politi!al pro!ess and ( think that%s a good thing, diversity is a good thing, and to stop
that ( think would be a very bad thing"
LIPSON: Wouldn%t this reform though see some of those minor parties have to band
together and form a!tual platforms that people !an more easily understand and vote
for in a demo!rati! way?
DRUERY: #ook that is one possibility but really these reforms are a little bit like the
maor parties and it was the maor parties and ( in!lude the ,reens in that so it was
the ,reens, the )oalition and #abor that was on this 1oint Standing )ommittee, it%s
really like saying (%m in the life boat, to hell with you, and push you ba!k into the sea,
it%s ust not fair" We are a !ountry that%s built on a fair go and a !ountry that%s built on
helping the little guy get up in the world, so if you look ba!k in history the ,reens
were first ele!ted on two to three per !ent, ?enophon on less than three per !ent,
now they%re there, they%re in the life boat and no one else gets in"
LIPSON: -kay, lets hear what some of the representatives from a !ouple of those
maor parties think, first to you $lan Tudge, what%s your response to that that the
ordinary $ustralians are being lo!ked out by these main parties whi!h are banding
together in order to preserve their dominan!e in the politi!al spe!trum?
TUDGE: Well ( don%t think that%s the !ase David" ( mean ordinary parties any party
will still be able to run for the Senate there will be a new rule that re6uires a party to
have at least /'00 members as part of their party rather than the !urrent rule whi!h
is '00 that%s the only thing that would !hange and be different for say 8i!ky Muir%s
party but otherwise they !an !ontest" What the overall obe!tives of these reforms
are is to give the individual greater !ontrol over their vote so that they have the
!apa!ity to see e4a!tly where their vote goes for first preferen!e and for subse6uent
preferen!es" $t the moment the system says you !an put a / above the line but you
may not know e4a!tly where your preferen!e ends up going and (%ll give you one
!lear out!ome of this where some perverse out!omes may result and that is in the
last ele!tion" There was a no !arbon ta4 party now people who voted / above the
line for that party would probably think it was going to that party and poli!ies to
support the abolition of the !arbon ta4, but indeed in many states that preferen!e
would%ve gone to #abor before it would%ve gone to the )oalition and now ( don%t think
that ne!essarily would%ve been the intent of every single person who voted for that
single issue of no !arbon ta4"
LIPSON: Matt Thistlethwaite, would you be happy to see the ba!k of ba!kroom
preferen!e deals in the Senate?
THISTLETHWAITE: Well David, we support and wel!ome the re!ommendations of
the 1oint Standing )ommittee on ele!toral matters" ( think they%ll improve demo!ra!y
and importantly improve $ustralians e4pe!tations and understanding of the way the
Senate voting pro!edure should work" +ou mentioned a party or a representative of
a party with "0/5 per !ent of the vote being ele!ted, ( don%t think that $ustralians
e4pe!t someone with su!h a small vote being ele!ted !ompared with someone with
say /0 per !ent of the vote and not being ele!ted, they were some of the out!omes
that we%ve seen in re!ent Senate ele!tions" The other point to make is that most
people when they go in to vote for the Senate, they go into the polling booth, they
have very little understanding of how the pro!ess a!tually works and if they a!tually
ask the polling offi!ials for the distribution of preferen!es they%re not available in the
polling booths" So ( think any pro!ess that simplifies the Senate ele!tion pro!ess
provides a greater understanding of how it works and produ!es mu!h more
demo!rati! out!omes ought to be supported"
LIPSON: ,lenn Druery a response to that be!ause really this should be about the
$ustralians who a!tually !ast their votes, it will simplify the system wont it? (t will
make it easier for people to understand where their votes are a!tually going"
DRUERY: What this is really about is benefitting the ,reens, ( think that something
that your two guests have failed to understand or failed to talk about is if this goes
through as the )ommittee has suggested it is very likely that the ,reens will win one
Senator in every state and every ele!tion and that will !ome at the e4pense of #abor"
(t%s also very likely that if the Palmer @nited Party%s vote keeps going the way it is
they will win one Senator at every ele!tion at the e4pense of the )oalition and given
the way the )oalition put the *ationals on their ti!ket they will probably !ome at the
e4pense of the *ationals" So if we we%re to go through this a !ouple of ele!toral
!y!les from now the big winners will be the ,reens, possibly Palmer, the losers will
be the $#P, the )oalition but the big losers will be the minor parties, while yes
theoreti!ally these reforms a minor party !an still e4ist but in all probability and in all
reality it%s a little bit like a running ra!e where the maor parties get out there in all
their high te!h running gear and the minor parties have got to wear lead weights,
they simply wont be !ompetitive and ordinary $ustralians unless you oin a maor
party and play that whole big maor party game simply won%t get a guernsey"
LIPSON: We are out of time"
ENDS