Steve Cooley - Civil Service Deposition - 11-09-12 - Redacted

I N RE PAUL MURPHY STEVE COOLEY VOL.
I
COURT REPORTER: BETH DRUMMOND PROCEEDI NG DATE: November 9, 2012
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I N THE STATE OF WASHI NGTON FOR THE COUNTY OF WHATCOM
CI VI L SERVI CE BOARD
I n r e t he mat t er of : )
)
PAUL MURPHY )
)
___________________________________________________________
DEPOSI TI ON UPON ORAL EXAMI NATI ON BEFORE TRI AL OF
STEVE COOLEY
___________________________________________________________
DATE TAKEN: November 9, 2012
REPORTED BY: BETH L. DRUMMOND, #2064
CORPOLONGO & ASSOCI ATES
REPORTI NG & REAL- TI ME SPECI ALI STS
114 West Magnol i a, Sui t e 400- 100
Bel l i ngham, WA 98225
1( 360) 671- 6298
i nf o@cor pol ongoandassoci at es. com
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I N RE PAUL MURPHY STEVE COOLEY VOL. I
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A P P E A R A N C E S
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ROBERT D. BUTLER, ATTORNEY AT LAW
6 Law Of f i ces of Rober t D. But l er
103 E. Hol l y, Sui t e 512
7 Bel l i ngham, Washi ngt on 98225
360- 734- 3448
8 360- 734- 7975
Admi n@r dbut l er l aw. com
9 For Paul Mur phy
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11 EMI LY BESCHEN, ATTORNEY AT LAW
Law Of f i ces of Rober t D. But l er
12 103 E. Hol l y, Sui t e 512
Bel l i ngham, Washi ngt on 98225
13 360- 734- 3448
360- 734- 7975
14 Admi n@r dbut l er l aw. com
For Paul Mur phy
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16 DANI EL L. GI BSON, ATTORNEY AT LAW
What comCount y Pr osecut i ng At t or ney' s Of f i ce
17 322 Nor t h Commer ci al , Sui t e 210
Bel l i ngham, Washi ngt on, 98225
18 360- 676- 6692
360- 738- 2532
19 Dgi bson@co. what com. wa. us
20
Al so Pr esent :
21 Paul Mur phy
Lor i Mur phy
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25
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1 Deposi t i on upon or al exami nat i on bef or e t r i al
2 of STEVE COOLEY, i n t he above- ent i t l ed cause, t aken at t he
3 i nst ance of Rober t But l er , pur suant t o Not i ce, at Execut i ve
4 Conf er ence Rooms, 311 Gr and Avenue, Ci t y of Bel l i ngham,
5 Count y of What com, St at e of Washi ngt on, bef or e Bet h L.
6 Dr ummond, Cer t i f i ed Cour t Repor t er and a Not ar y Publ i c f or
7 t he St at e of Washi ngt on on November 9, 2012 at 10: 00 a. m.
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9 EXAMI NATI ON I NDEX
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11 EXAMI NATI ON BY PAGE
12 Mr . But l er 4
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EXHI BI T I NDEX
17 EXHI BI TS FOR I DENTI FI CATI ON PAGE
1 15- Page Document 4
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STEVE COOLEY, havi ng f i r st been dul y swor n, was exami ned and
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t est i f i ed as f ol l ows:
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EXAMI NATI ON
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BY MR. BUTLER:
6 Q. Good morning.
7 A. Good morning.
8 Q. You're here for your deposition related to the
9 pending matter regarding Paul Murphy's termination from the
10 county sheriff's.
11 Are you aware of that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken before?
14 A. I've been present for many depositions. I can't
15 recall I've actually been deposed formally or not.
16 Q. Okay. You were just placed under oath.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. The purpose of this is discovery, to find out
19 what you know and how you know it so that we can rely on
20 your testimony today to be consistent with any future
21 hearings.
22 If there's any time when you don't understand a
23 question and my voice drops or it's muddled or whatever,
24 feel free to ask for clarification.
25 A. (Witness nods head.)
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1 Q. The court reporter's taking it all down, so it's
2 important that the record is made with a knowing answer to a
3 question.
4 Also, the court reporter can only take one voice
5 at a time, so I'll try not to step on your answer. If you
6 try to wait until my question is done, it will make her job
7 a lot easier.
8 And because we are about four feet apart, normal
9 human interaction includes a lot of body language
10 communication, nods, eyes, stuff like that. In a
11 deposition, we need everything to be a verbal response.
12 Like I said before we were on the record, I don't
13 anticipate this being too long. If you need a break, let us
14 know. We have water, and the County could probably come up
15 with something else for you, if you want.
16 (Discussion held off the record.)
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BY MR. BUTLER:
18 Q. Okay. Let's start with your background.
19 Foundationally, where are you employed?
20 A. Whatcom County Sheriff's Office.
21 Q. How long have you been so employed?
22 A. It's going on over 14 years.
23 Q. And what position do you currently hold?
24 A. I'm the inspector.
25 Q. How long have you been inspector?
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1 A. Going into my fourth year.
2 Q. And what does an inspector do?
3 A. I'm responsible for internal or administrative
4 investigations, complaint handling, policies and procedure
5 development, and a variety of other smaller jobs. Like I
6 help with public disclosure requests, maintenance of our web
7 site, stuff like that.
8 Q. Okay. We're obviously focused today not so much
9 on the maintenance and the development of policies and stuff
10 but your investigative function.
11 How are you tasked with an investigation?
12 A. Either the sheriff or the undersheriff --
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. -- basically, orders me to conduct an
15 investigation.
16 Q. Are you allowed to just independently launch an
17 investigation into a deputy in the department?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Have you ever initiated your own investigation
20 without a directive from either the sheriff or undersheriff?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Okay. So how do you do your job with regards to
23 the investigation side, the internal investigation side?
24 The sheriff says -- how is -- let's start at the top.
25 How is it communicated to you? And then we'll
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1 walk through kind of a generic of what you do.
2 A. Okay. Either a chief deputy or the undersheriff
3 or the sheriff or a combination of any of those will come to
4 me and say they have an issue, perhaps possible misconduct
5 by an employee.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. There's usually a discussion or two about how we
8 should best handle that, and then out of that discussion
9 can -- one of the outcomes can be, we need you to conduct an
10 administrative investigation.
11 Q. Is the initiation oral or is there a memo, an
12 e-mail? How does the initiation take place?
13 A. It is normally written.
14 Q. Okay. And do you know who maintains that
15 writing; if that writing is maintained in your office or if
16 that writing is maintained in the sheriff and undersheriff's
17 office?
18 A. I maintain a copy in the investigative file. I
19 believe that the undersheriff would maintain a copy as well,
20 but I don't know for certain.
21 Q. Okay. A great example of a rule I forgot to
22 mention. If you don't know --
23 A. Say I don't know?
24 Q. Say you don't know, and we can explore what it is
25 you do and don't know.
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1 I'm asking -- the intent of my questions are to
2 ask what you know. And if I want to have you speculate as
3 to what somebody else did, I'll try to clarify that.
4 So great anticipation of the rules as to whether
5 or not somebody else does something with the paper.
6 Okay. Somebody from up -- is it a hierarchy, a
7 chain-of-command-type thing? Would that be fair to say that
8 a sheriff or undersheriff is above you?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So somebody from above says, "Steve, we want you
11 to do an investigation?"
12 A. (Witness nods head.)
13 Q. What do you do first when you get that directive?
14 A. Well, as part of that discussion that I
15 mentioned, the administrative investigations are normally
16 launched based on some allegation of misconduct.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. So during that discussion with me, the chief or
19 the undersheriff or the sheriff, whoever it happens to be,
20 will tell me what they believe the misconduct has occurred.
21 What I do with that, then, is I look through our
22 policies and determine if there is potentially a violation
23 of policy because that's what the internal investigations
24 are supposed to be based on.
25 Q. Okay.
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1 A. And so then I will draft the advisement,
2 basically, to the subject of the investigation or subjects,
3 which advises them, among other things, of the possible
4 policies that they have violated.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. So that's the next step.
7 Q. To your knowledge, is the sheriff aware of each
8 of your investigations?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. So when you say the undersheriff may give
11 you a directive, are you aware of any investigations that
12 you've been tasked with that the sheriff wasn't aware of?
13 I mean, you've never talked to him about it. He
14 never inquired about it. You have no idea if he knew
15 because that --
16 A. As far as I know, he's been aware of all of the
17 investigations with which I've been tasked.
18 Q. Okay. So we got the directive. We've got you
19 looking at policy.
20 And then, if I have my chronology right, the next
21 thing after you've looked at policy, if you find a policy
22 that may be relevant, you shoot it out to the subject or the
23 target. And what happens next?
24 A. Well, then I'll start conducting the
25 investigative -- the actual meat of the investigation, if
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1 you will.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. That could -- okay.
4 Q. The target gets your -- what does the target get
5 from you at the initiation?
6 A. As part of the guild collective bargaining
7 agreement with the County, we are required to advise them of
8 the target or the subject within 15 days.
9 And there's an actual specific form contained in
10 the bargaining agreement that I issue, and that's what they
11 get.
12 And that includes an advisement if there's an
13 investigation, what class the investigation is, and the
14 general nature of the investigation.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. So they're made aware of the circumstances
17 surrounding the investigation.
18 Q. Tell me about the 15 days.
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. What does that refer to?
21 A. By contract, again, it's very specifically worded
22 in the collective bargaining agreement that the clock starts
23 ticking the first day that the sheriff's office --
24 essentially a command staff member or someone outside the
25 bargaining unit or above the chain of command outside the
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1 bargaining unit -- becomes aware of possible misconduct.
2 That is when the clock on the 15 days starts ticking.
3 So we have to make a decision within those 15
4 days whether or not to conduct an investigation and then to
5 advise the employee.
6 Q. What happens if you get to day 20?
7 What happens if you're outside the 15 per the
8 contract -- to your understanding of the contract?
9 A. Well, that specifically is not covered in the
10 contract. I believe that would impact possibly our ability
11 to eventually discipline the employee for that conduct.
12 Q. Okay. So the operating principle is, kind of,
13 promptness?
14 Is that what the 15 days is about, that you don't
15 kind of store up old investigations-type thing?
16 A. Yes, exactly.
17 Q. Okay. So they get the contractual notice that
18 we're looking at this, and that advises them of the class of
19 investigation.
20 Tell me about the class, your understanding of
21 the class.
22 A. That in the policy manual, our investigations are
23 divided into two classes, Class I and Class II.
24 Class I's are generally for much more serious,
25 potentially serious misconduct. The general benchmark that
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1 divides the two is: A Class I would be any sort of
2 misconduct that may result in an economic impact to the
3 employee or more, up to and including termination.
4 Class II would be more what we don't anticipate
5 initially would result in economic impact; perhaps, at
6 worst, a letter of reprimand or something like that.
7 Q. Who makes that determination?
8 A. It's made jointly between myself and, usually,
9 the undersheriff.
10 Q. Okay. All right. Do you ever provide an
11 investigation service for other agencies other than Whatcom
12 County Sheriff?
13 A. I have not in the past.
14 Q. Okay. Do each law enforcement agency have you?
15 Does everybody have internal investigators such as yourself?
16 A. Certainly not one assigned to that specific duty,
17 but my understanding is most agencies in our county have
18 someone that would do such an investigation.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. If one were to arise.
21 Q. Okay. All right. What about a conflict?
22 I mean, I'm assuming if Elfo had concern about
23 Steve Cooley, he wouldn't task Inspector Cooley to do that
24 investigation.
25 What happens if there's a conflict?
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1 A. There's several options. One would be, as you
2 just mentioned, you could go outside the agency and ask for
3 someone from another agency to do it. That would be one
4 option.
5 Q. Have you ever been aware of Whatcom County going
6 outside of the agency to conduct an investigation of one of
7 their own?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Can you tell me who?
10 A. Who the investigation's about or who did it?
11 Q. Yes, both. Let's start with who did the
12 investigation.
13 A. Okay. Yes. Chief Napa, Ferndale, conducted, I
14 believe, an internal review. I don't know if you would call
15 it an investigation, but did some work for the sheriff along
16 those lines.
17 Q. Okay. Without giving the name of the target --
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MR. BUTLER: So t hat you can keep br eat hi ng easy
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over t her e, Dan.
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BY MR. BUTLER:
21 Q. -- roughly, you know, what year was that?
22 A. Let's think. Very roughly 2006/2007.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. It was about a year before I became the
25 inspector.
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1 Q. All right. Are you aware of other
2 external/internals?
3 A. I can't recall any specifics.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. Right now, but that doesn't mean there aren't
6 any.
7 Q. All right. Do you know Paul Murphy?
8 A. I do.
9 Q. How do you know Paul?
10 A. He was a deputy with the sheriff's office.
11 Q. Okay. Have you ever had any conflict with Paul
12 in your professional career together?
13 A. Yes. I think I would say that we have had
14 conflict.
15 Q. Okay. When you were tasked -- assuming facts not
16 in evidence. We haven't got into it. You did the
17 investigation in this case.
18 When you were tasked with the investigation, did
19 you raise that issue and say, "Maybe I'm not the right
20 person to do this"?
21 A. I may not have said those words, but I raised the
22 issue of getting an outside investigator.
23 Q. Who did you raise that to?
24 A. The sheriff.
25 Q. And at what point in time did you raise that,
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1 when you've just given me your chronology of what you do?
2 A. Before I was tasked with doing the investigation
3 itself, as we were discussing what the possible misconduct
4 was.
5 Q. Okay. So you had received a memo?
6 A. And --
7 Q. And it said, "Do this investigation."
8 And then you went back and said, I don't know if
9 I'm the right -- essentially, I'm not sure that I'm the
10 right person type thing or --
11 A. I believe I raised it first before I received the
12 memo, when I was first made aware that there was a potential
13 investigation to be done.
14 Q. Okay. And was anybody else involved in that
15 conversation?
16 A. We were not alone in the room, but I can't recall
17 who all was there. I'm relatively confident the
18 undersheriff was a part of that discussion and, perhaps,
19 Chief Chadwick.
20 Q. Okay. Do you recall what else was discussed in
21 that room in that meeting?
22 A. No, I don't -- I mean, I don't even recall the
23 specific meeting and who was there, but I recall having that
24 discussion and making that statement.
25 Q. Was that the first meeting related to this
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1 investigation or was it related to something else and you
2 just said, "Oh, hey. By the way, yesterday when you tasked
3 me with this thing, I don't think I should do it"?
4 A. I don't remember.
5 Q. Do you remember what it was that you said to
6 Elfo, Sheriff Elfo, about it?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What'd you say?
9 A. I said for appearance's sake it may be better for
10 the agency if we seek to have an outside entity do this
11 internal investigation.
12 I told him I was perfectly capable of doing an
13 objective investigation; however, for appearances' sake, it
14 may be better for the sheriff's office to seek outside
15 assistance.
16 Q. Okay. Obviously, you did the investigation. So
17 that decision was made above you, correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. All right. How many investigations have you done
20 into Paul?
21 A. Paul? Two, including the current one that we're
22 speaking about.
23 Q. All right. And the first one was when?
24 A. I don't remember exact dates, but I would say it
25 was -- it was more towards the beginning. I want to say
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1 2010, but that's a guess.
2 Q. That's correct, actually.
3 A. Okay.
4 Q. Do you remember the outcome?
5 A. What do you mean by "outcome"?
6 Q. What happened? Not what the allegation was, but
7 what was the result?
8 A. You mean, as far as discipline goes?
9 Q. Uh-huh.
10 A. I believe he received a letter of reprimand.
11 Q. Do you recall if it was a Class I or a Class II?
12 A. I believe it was a Class I.
13 Q. The task that you were given in 2012, the current
14 one, was that assigned as a Class I or a Class II?
15 A. It was a Class I.
16 Q. Was there discussion about it being a Class I or
17 a Class II?
18 A. Not that I recall.
19 Q. Is there usually discussion at the inception of
20 an investigation, whether it be a I or a II?
21 A. No. I wouldn't say there's usually a discussion.
22 As part of the process of me going and looking to
23 see what potential policies were violated, I will look at
24 what's the most appropriate level.
25 The only Class II I've ever done is one I'm
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1 currently assigned to.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. And all of the other ones I've done are
4 Class I's.
5 Q. All right. How many investigations of the
6 Class I, Class II do you do a year?
7 A. I don't have the exact number, of course. Do you
8 want me to estimate how many I do per year?
9 Q. Yes, please.
10 A. Well, this year I've had three. I'm currently
11 assigned to my third one. For instance, 2009 was a very
12 busy year. I did probably on the order of ten.
13 So it varies.
14 Q. Okay. Was there anything in this investigation
15 that was unique or stood out as different than other
16 investigations?
17 And by that, I'm not talking about the facts
18 because each case would factually be different, but was
19 there anything in the process that was different than any
20 other investigation?
21 A. Nothing comes to mind, but I'm not exactly sure
22 what you mean.
23 Q. Okay. Did you do anything different in this
24 investigation procedurally than you would do in any other
25 investigation?
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Were the time lines the same in this
3 investigation as any other investigation that you've done?
4 A. There were -- yes. The time line's always the
5 same. However, in this case, there were a couple of
6 extensions.
7 Q. Okay. What caused the extensions?
8 A. Well, one of them, we -- essentially, we
9 discovered some new evidence towards the very end of the
10 time line.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. And so we needed time to process that and include
13 it.
14 Q. Okay. And what evidence was that?
15 A. I'm trying to remember -- I -- can I look at my
16 report?
17 Q. You bet.
18 A. Okay. I don't recall exactly what the extension
19 was.
20 Q. And while you're flipping, the notebook you're
21 flipping through is what?
22 A. The original copy of my investigation.
23 Q. Okay.
24 (Pause in the proceedings.)
25 A. I believe it was the -- my discovery that the
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1 hard drive in the computer in question was not, in fact, the
2 original one that was issued to Deputy Murphy when he first
3 got it.
4 In other words, my discovery of the -- that the
5 migration process had caused a switch in the hard drives.
6 Q. Okay. Anything else cause an extension?
7 A. Not that I'm aware of.
8 Q. Okay. All right. Did you prepare a synopsis of
9 your investigation?
10 A. I prepared an investigative report that begins
11 with a synopsis, yes.
12 Q. And --
13 (Exhibit 1 marked for identification.)
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BY MR. BUTLER:
15 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 1, do
16 you recognize that 15-page document as a document that you
17 prepared in this case?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And is it, essentially, a summary kind of outline
20 of what you did and what that notebook in front of you
21 contains?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. For ease of kind of the questions, I
24 figured we'd use the synopsis since it's less paper.
25 A. Okay.
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1 Q. But at any time if there's a question posed to
2 you that the full investigation would assist you with, just
3 let me know and you can identify what it is you're looking
4 at.
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. Okay. When did you write this?
7 A. At the end of the investigation process.
8 Q. When was that?
9 A. Well, I don't know the exact date that I started
10 on it, but I would have finished it around the date I
11 submitted it, which is May 4th of 2012.
12 Q. Okay. The end of the first paragraph ends with
13 "particularly via ACCESS."
14 Do you see that?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. What is that? What's ACCESS?
17 A. ACCESS is an acronym, which I may not be able to
18 produce for you right now. But basically, that is a
19 Washington State computer system that allows law enforcement
20 to check, among many other things, criminal records,
21 criminal history.
22 And it's basically our link to the national crime
23 index computer and the Washington State Crime Index Computer
24 or Crime Information Computer. I forget what that acronym
25 is as well.
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1 Q. Okay. So that was a concern, correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you find any evidence that it had been
4 accessed by Paul Murphy?
5 A. No. You mean, improperly?
6 Q. Yeah.
7 A. No.
8 Q. The last paragraph on that page identifies a
9 handgun issue. Do you see that, "by refusing to relinquish
10 his duty handgun"?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How did that resolve?
13 A. What do you mean by "resolve"?
14 Q. Did he ultimately give his handgun or did the
15 county realize it was his handgun? How did that issue
16 resolve?
17 A. He ultimately turned over his handgun.
18 Q. If you go to Page 2, you have your section of
19 allegations. Do you see that?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And there's seven, correct?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. And how did these come into existence?
24 Were these allegations that you formulated or
25 were these the allegations that were handed to you to look
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1 into?
2 A. As I described before, the -- as part of the
3 process of me beginning an investigation and developing that
4 memo that's given to -- ultimately, to the subject, I take
5 what the alleged conduct is and look through the policy
6 manual to figure out what, if any, policies that may have
7 violated now, and then I translate those into numbered
8 allegations.
9 During the course of an investigation, if I
10 discover additional possible misconduct, I add allegations
11 to that sheet.
12 Q. Okay. Are any of these added?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Which ones were added?
15 A. Let's see. Certainly 5, 6, and 7, and possibly
16 4. I can't remember if that one was added. I believe 4 was
17 added, also.
18 Q. Okay. And we'll go through them, I think, in a
19 bit more detail. The findings of fact, which start on Page
20 4 --
21 A. Uh-huh.
22 Q. So we have a synopsis. We have the allegations.
23 We have findings of fact, and then we have conclusions,
24 correct?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. Is that a template that you're tasked with
2 completing or is that something that you made up for this
3 case?
4 A. It's a template that I use to conduct every
5 internal investigation.
6 Q. Okay. Do you determine who you interview, what
7 information you look at, or is that tasked to you?
8 A. I largely determine who I interview.
9 Q. All right. Finding of Fact No. 6 states, in
10 short, that the county got the Toughbooks on -- on April 4th
11 of 2006.
12 Do you see that?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And 7, Murphy didn't get 17445 until 2008,
15 correct?
16 A. That's correct.
17 Q. All right. When we interviewed or took Perry
18 Rice's deposition yesterday -- when you were looking at
19 these findings, the 6 and 7, and drawing your conclusions,
20 did you speak with Perry Rice?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. He indicated that he doesn't know because
23 they didn't check, what hard drives were actually in the
24 units that arrived.
25 So do you have independent knowledge that on
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1 April 13th, 2006, that all 40 of those hard drives were 80
2 gigabyte?
3 A. The knowledge I have is based on the enclosure
4 that the finding of fact references.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Which would be Enclosure 20 in Finding of Fact 6.
7 Q. And why don't you flip to Enclosure 20 and see if
8 that's anything more than a purchase order.
9 A. It's a computer printout of purchase order
10 information and asset data information.
11 Q. Okay. Do you know as you sit here now if the
12 company shipped a -- the proper order?
13 A. I have no way of independently verifying that,
14 no.
15 Q. Okay. And it wasn't assigned to Deputy Murphy
16 initially, correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And I think later we see that you talked to
19 Deputy Roth and asked him if he changed out the hard drive,
20 and he said no?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. Did you clarify with Deputy Roth whether or not
23 it was an 80 gig?
24 A. No. I don't believe I did.
25 Q. Okay. Finding No. 8 is -- reads that, "In or
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1 around September of 2010, Whatcom County Administrative
2 Services Information Technology Division -- short for IT --
3 recalled all owned Panasonic Toughbook computers issued to
4 the sheriff's office so they could be reconfigured to work
5 with the county's new Windows server platform.
6 By design, this migration also eliminated
7 individual users' ability to install software on the
8 computers, as well as make significant changes to the
9 computers' configurations without the assistance of IT.
10 Do you see that finding?
11 A. I do.
12 Q. Prior to the migration, were there rules around
13 putting software on and making changes to computers?
14 A. Rules as in policies or -- what do you mean by
15 "rules"?
16 Q. Well, the last sentence --
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. -- seems to be specifically written. And you
19 authored this, correct?
21 Q. And so it says "By design, this migration
22 also" -- so it was an upgrade to Windows or whatever -- but
23 it "also eliminated individual users' ability to install
24 software."
25 So was there an issue about individuals' ability
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1 to install software before?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. And then your sentence also goes on to
4 say, "as well as make significant changes."
5 A. Right.
6 Q. And was that also going on and this migration
7 changed that?
8 A. I don't know how much it was going on, but I know
9 that users had the capability to make system changes and to
10 add software to the computers. They had the physical. They
11 were not blocked electronically by the computer itself from
12 making those types of changes.
13 Q. Okay. And then in speaking with Perry yesterday,
14 now, as we sit here in 2012 --
15 A. Uh-huh.
16 Q. -- the objective or kind of the understanding is
17 the employees of Whatcom County don't mess with their
18 computers; IT does.
19 Is that your understanding of it?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And I take from this finding that before the
22 migration, it was a little bit looser out there?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. Finding No. 9, IT staff went to migrate.
25 Who -- do you know which staff member found the
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1 20?
2 A. Let me look -- if I could look at the enclosure,
3 it references there.
4 Q. Sure, you bet. And any time I ask that, if you
5 don't have the independent memory --
6 A. Yeah, yeah.
7 Q. -- then absolutely, that's what I want you to do
8 is say, "I don't recall" and look at 17, kind of thing.
9 A. Okay. Yeah. The third page of Enclosure 17 is a
10 Toughbook migration data sheet that I was provided by John
11 Dalquist of IT.
12 John told me that several different peoples'
13 handwriting is on this piece of paper, including his. He
14 did not recall who wrote some of the other stuff. He also
15 did not recall who, specifically -- whether it was him or
16 anyone else -- actually pulled the physical drive out of the
17 Toughbook computer, but it eventually came into his -- it
18 was given to him to keep.
19 Q. Okay. And as I understand it, he's kind of the
20 IT guy designated to the sheriff's department.
21 Is that your understanding?
22 A. Yes. That is my understanding.
23 Q. Is it your understanding from that conversation
24 that created No. 9 that that's why he got the 20 gig as
25 opposed to somebody else?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. Did he indicate when they took it out that
3 there was anything wrong with the computer?
4 A. I don't understand what you mean.
5 Q. Was the computer functional?
6 A. I don't think he indicated to me one way or the
7 other. I think they just -- my understanding was that they
8 simply -- oh. Actually, wait a minute. Let me think.
9 What -- yes. What he told me was that when the
10 staff went to migrate the computer or whatever that
11 involves, which is basically -- my understanding of it is
12 basically overriding everything that's on the hard drive. I
13 believe it's called an image that they were attempting to
14 write onto the hard drive. That process stalled.
15 And then when the process stalled, in trying to
16 figure out why it stalled, that's when they discovered that
17 the hard drive was smaller than anticipated.
18 Q. Okay. So it was the addition of the Windows
19 server platform and shifting it over that caused them to be
20 aware that this computer was somehow different?
21 A. Yes. I believe that's correct.
22 Q. I'm assuming you asked if it powered up and
23 otherwise was doing fine?
24 A. I didn't ask that.
25 Q. Okay. How did you come to find No. 9 in 2012 in
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1 this investigation?
2 A. Sorry. I'm not with you.
3 Q. Well, that event happened in 2010.
4 A. Are you talking about Finding of Fact No. 9?
5 Q. Yeah.
6 A. Okay.
7 Q. So why in 2012 are you -- did you already know
8 about that?
9 A. No.
10 Q. How is it that you came to know about Nos. 8 and
11 9 in this investigation in 2012?
12 A. Because it -- we were not made aware that that
13 had occurred until that time. At least I was not aware that
14 that occurred.
15 Q. Okay. How did you become aware of it at this
16 time?
17 A. During the questioning of John Dalquist.
18 Q. Describe for me the questioning that led to this
19 information.
20 A. Um --
21 Q. Why did you, for example, talk to John Dalquist
22 in this investigation?
23 A. Because he's the main person who takes care of
24 computers that the sheriff's office uses.
25 Q. Okay.
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1 A. So I was originally talking to him to see if he
2 was aware of the cloning issue of whether or not Deputy
3 Murphy had approached him about cloning a hard drive.
4 Q. Okay. And what did he say about that?
5 A. He was not aware of -- he told me he was not
6 aware of that. He never discussed that.
7 Q. Okay. And did you inquire of him if he would be
8 able to know if a computer was accessing the server or
9 ACCESS remotely inappropriately?
10 A. I don't recall the exact discussions that we had.
11 I have a summary of my interview, of course, in here with
12 John.
13 Q. Uh-huh.
14 A. I can certainly refer to that if you'd like.
15 Q. If I ask a question and you think you remember
16 information --
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Because otherwise I'd like to keep it present.
19 A. I don't understand. Explain.
20 Q. If when I ask you a question, you think that,
21 Yeah, I covered that in here. I don't remember what it was.
22 Let me look at my notes.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Absolutely.
25 A. Okay.
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1 Q. But if that initial trigger of "I don't remember
2 ever talking to him about it," we don't need to take time to
3 read all the pages to see.
4 A. Yeah. I don't recall all the specific questions
5 I asked him during that interview, so I would have to look
6 at that.
7 Q. During the course of this investigation, would
8 that have been part of your inquiry, the technical detection
9 of a cloned hard drive?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. And in any of your interviews, did you
12 determine that there was a violation, if you will, of the
13 county server or ACCESS by a different computer?
14 A. What I was able to determine was that I would be
15 unable to determine that because if the hard drive being
16 used to access it was, in fact, an exact copy or a clone,
17 there would be no way for ACCESS or for our system to be
18 able to tell us that.
19 Q. Even though you would potentially have two of the
20 same licenses accessing the computer?
21 A. That's my understanding. With regards to ACCESS
22 specifically --
23 Q. And I apologize. In that one, I wasn't using the
24 statewide system. I was just talking about gaining entry
25 into the server.
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1 A. My understanding from my discussions with IT
2 personnel was that they would not be able to determine if
3 Deputy Murphy had used a cloned hard drive in his computer
4 to access county systems.
5 Q. Okay. Finding No. 10 is -- it says on
6 February 7th.
7 A. Uh-huh.
8 Q. Is that when this started, this investigation?
9 A. That is the event that prompted the start of this
10 investigation.
11 Q. Okay. Prior to February 7, had you been tasked
12 with watching Paul Murphy in any way?
13 A. I was tasked by the sheriff with monitoring his
14 posts to the internet.
15 Q. And what did the sheriff say about that? What do
16 you recall that task being?
17 A. We had been approached by -- not me directly --
18 other employees had approached other staff members about
19 some of the posts that Deputy Murphy was making,
20 particularly to his Facebook page, that were negative
21 towards the sheriff's office and some of its personnel. And
22 the sheriff told me to watch them, basically.
23 Q. When do you recall that task being assigned?
24 A. I'm not going to recall a specific date, but it
25 was sometime before this occurred.
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1 Q. Okay. Do you recall the form of communication
2 used between you and Sheriff Elfo on that subject?
3 A. Yes. It was verbal.
4 Q. Verbal?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Do you recall any e-mails or memos?
7 A. I don't recall a specific e-mail. One could have
8 occurred. I know he's forwarded me an e-mail or two asking
9 me to keep a particular fact or something that had been
10 discovered regarding Deputy Murphy. And, you know,
11 basically, "File this."
12 But no. I don't recall a specific e-mail where
13 he said, "Do this."
14 Q. All right. Do you recall being involved or
15 inquiring of counsel whether you guys could move forward and
16 fire Deputy Murphy for his Facebook posts?
17 A. I was involved in one specific post that deputy
18 Murphy made in which counsel was consulted about whether it
19 was actionable disciplinary-wise.
20 Q. And do you remember when that was? Within a
21 month?
22 A. Let me think. Well, it was after this one. This
23 particular investigation that we're speaking of started
24 because the number of the investigation was the second one
25 of the year.
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1 So it sometime after this one was initiated, but
2 I can't recall how long afterwards, but not long after.
3 Q. And what was the subject of the second
4 investigation into Paul Murphy in 2012?
5 A. Deputy Murphy made a post on his Facebook page of
6 a picture of a burning Kuran with the statement to the
7 effect that, "I will not be apologizing either," and there
8 was concern.
9 I reported that post to Sheriff Elfo, and I
10 believe he was concerned that that would be a violation of
11 policy.
12 Q. Was that -- when we were talking about monitoring
13 Facebook, you were monitoring Facebook, though, before
14 February 7, correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. And the Investigation No. 2, the Kuran,
17 was after February 7, correct?
18 A. I believe so, yes.
19 Q. Okay. Did you monitor anybody else's Facebook at
20 the department at Elfo's request?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Okay. Did you happen to observe other people --
23 other deputies' Facebook posts while you were monitoring
24 Deputy Murphy's posts?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. And did you report or take screen shots or pass
2 those back up?
3 A. I remember one specific post, but I don't believe
4 I reported it. I believe it was seen by another staff
5 member.
6 Q. Okay. Do you remember the content of the posts
7 that Sheriff Elfo wanted you to monitor?
8 A. He -- it wasn't specific. It was basically
9 anything that was derogatory about the sheriff's office or
10 its employees that would potentially violate our policies.
11 And, also, there was some concern that -- I'm
12 trying to remember -- the emotional tenor of some of his
13 posts were getting more -- the degree of emotion appeared to
14 some people to be getting higher, and so there was concern
15 that he was becoming extremely uptight and tense.
16 Q. Okay. And are you aware of how long the
17 department was concerned about his emotional wellbeing?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Did it predate 2011?
20 A. I guess I don't know what you mean by "emotional
21 wellbeing."
22 Q. Well, you just said the concern was the emotional
23 tenor.
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. Was that a new concern or was that an ongoing
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1 concern?
2 A. The emotional tenor, I believe that was basically
3 a new concern.
4 Q. Okay. At the beginning, I asked about your
5 position, and we've narrowed into the investigation. You
6 also talked about policy stuff.
7 In 2011, did the sheriff's department have a
8 social network, social media policy?
9 A. No. And we still do not.
10 Q. Okay. Are you looking at it?
11 A. We have --
12 Q. In the process of changing anything?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Do you know where that is in the process? Is it,
15 like, just in the back of your mind or have you forwarded
16 memos up and they're being -- kind of where in the
17 process --
18 A. We have completed what we would like to publish
19 as a policy and submitted it to the unions for review and
20 the guild. The Deputy Sheriff's Guild has basically
21 demanded to arbitrate or demanded to bargain; I'm sorry --
22 in that process. So it's in the bargaining process
23 somewhere, of which I am not a part.
24 Q. Okay. Back to the synopsis. Finding No. 11, it
25 says that "Ross Miller Larson and Edge called Murphy to the
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1 Laurel station."
2 Do you see that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Why was Ross Miller there?
5 A. He is -- was in Murphy's direct chain of command,
6 and he is a command staff member. And he was the one tasked
7 with doing that by, I believe, Chief Chapman.
8 Q. Why was Larson there?
9 A. She was the shift Sergeant at the time, I
10 believe.
11 Q. Why was Edge there?
12 A. I don't know.
13 Q. Is it normal to have that much firepower present
14 for asking a deputy for a computer?
15 A. This is one of the only times, if not the only
16 time, I could recall we asked a deputy for their computer.
17 So I don't know if it's normal or not.
18 Q. Did that happen at your direction? Did you say,
19 We need to get his computer for my investigation?
20 A. I believe that the determination that it needed
21 to be seized was -- was already -- that decision had already
22 been made by the time I became a part of this, but it was
23 probably part of a discussion I was involved in.
24 Q. Okay. When you were looking at seizing the
25 computer, what were you looking to find? What were you
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1 expecting to find?
2 A. Well, again, I don't believe I was the one who
3 directed it be seized, but a group of staff members
4 discussed it. The main concern that started -- one of the
5 main concerns that started the investigation is that Deputy
6 Murphy may be using a cloned or unauthorized copy of a hard
7 drive to access sensitive information.
8 And because it was a -- inherently, possibly not
9 a clone that was controlled by the county, there was
10 concerns about the security of that information.
11 Q. Were you looking for anything else to be on the
12 hard drive content-wise?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What was the discussion of what people thought
15 might be there?
16 A. The other part of the -- the other reason -- the
17 other main reason that prompted the investigation was a
18 statement Deputy Murphy made about files that he had on his
19 computer that he didn't want people to see.
20 And so there was a concern that he was keeping
21 files on the computer that he had not made his supervisor
22 aware -- supervisors aware of.
23 Q. Okay. Deputy Murphy had previously complained
24 about -- to kind of use a gross term -- corruption in the
25 department, correct?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. He previously complained about management not
3 following through with investigations that he thought were
4 viable and important, correct?
5 A. I don't know if I'm aware of that or not.
6 Q. Mandy (phonetic) stabbing homicide?
7 A. Yeah. Again, rumor. I might have heard a little
8 bit about that, but I wasn't directly involved in that.
9 Q. Okay. What had you heard him complain about
10 regarding operation of the sheriff's department? I mean, I
11 don't want to go through the rumors and have you go, Yeah, I
12 didn't hear that from him.
13 So what do you know of him complaining about
14 before February 7th, 2012?
15 A. Essentially, only what was on his Facebook page
16 that I saw.
17 Q. What do you recall seeing?
18 A. General comments that there was corruption at the
19 sheriff's office. I don't recall a lot of specifics about
20 what specific corruption there was, particularly to the
21 sheriff's office. I do remember -- yeah. I'd have to --
22 yeah. I'm not remembering specifics.
23 I know there were maybe a couple of issues he was
24 discussing, but just general sheriff's office is corrupt.
25 Q. Okay. What or how many Facebook pages were you
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1 monitoring of Paul Murphy?
2 A. How many pages or -- he only has one Facebook
3 account that I was monitoring.
4 Does that answer your question?
5 Q. What account is that?
6 A. It's the one called Paul Murphy.
7 Q. Did you look at any other Facebook pages that
8 Paul Murphy posted on?
9 A. I have, yes.
10 Q. Which ones?
11 A. Oh, boy. Let's see if I can remember. I don't
12 -- I'm not sure I'm going to remember whether it was
13 Facebook pages or other websites.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. There was one, and I honestly don't remember the
16 name. It's a group of -- I want to say veterans or police
17 officers who discuss the circumstances under which they will
18 take orders or not. And they're swearing basically that
19 they're not going to obey certain types of orders.
20 I don't recall the name of that group. That is a
21 website that he posted to and that I looked at -- or that he
22 reposted on his own Facebook page.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. That's the one that comes to mind.
25 Q. Any others come to mind?
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1 A. One other one, and it's called the Northwest
2 Conservative -- and I don't remember the last name. It's a
3 three word title. Northwest Conservative Corps or
4 something. That's not the right word.
5 Q. And that's different than the orders one that you
6 talked about before?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you observe any Facebook posts by Paul
9 regarding the election; who he supported in the sheriff's
10 election?
11 A. Oh, yes.
12 Q. What do you recall around that?
13 A. I believe he initially supported Bob Taylor, and
14 then when Bob Taylor did not advance past the primary, he
15 supported Steve Harris.
16 Q. On what sites or Facebook pages did you glean
17 that from?
18 A. Just his Facebook page. I probably also looked
19 at Bob Taylor's and Steve Harris's election Facebook pages;
20 not their personal ones.
21 Q. Okay. With regards to Finding No. 22, this one
22 says, "The investigator asked Murphy" -- throughout this
23 report, you write in the third person; is that correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And so when the investigator asks something,
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1 that's Steve Cooley asks?
3 Q. "Was the hard drive that was issued with this --
4 with that computer, Toughbook, to you inside the computer on
5 February 10, 2012?"
6 That was your question?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Well, with the parenthesis of Toughbook on
9 February 10, 2012?
10 A. Yes. The information in parenthesis I did not --
11 was not part of the question. I added those to clarify.
12 Q. In your writing?
13 A. In my writing, that's correct.
14 Q. Okay. And Murphy responded no.
16 Q. That's a true statement, correct?
17 A. I believe so. I took it straight from the
18 transcript.
19 Q. Okay. But, I mean, the computer that you
20 seized --
21 A. Oh --
22 Q. -- the hard drive that you seized was not the
23 hard drive that was in the county computer originally,
24 correct?
25 A. Correct.
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1 Q. Because the county had changed it out?
3 Q. Deputy Murphy had an ongoing issue with ownership
4 of county property, correct?
5 A. With his handgun, yes.
6 Q. And arguably with his computer stuff, too,
7 correct?
8 A. The hard drive, yes.
9 Q. Was he correct regarding the handgun about the
10 ownership -- his belief that he owned the handgun?
11 A. I don't believe so, no. I believe one of my
12 findings states that.
13 Q. Okay. All right. I need to take a quick break
14 and we will resume. We're plowing right through.
15 A. Okay.
16 (Recess taken.)
17
BY MR. BUTLER:
18 Q. Okay. Back on the record.
19 No. 32, it says that you were unable to view the
20 files on the hard drive -- the 20 gigabyte hard drive?
21 A. I'm sorry. Say that again.
22 Q. Finding No. 32 says that you were unable to view
23 files on the 20 gigabyte hard drive?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Why?
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1 A. I'm not probably the best person to answer that
2 question, but my understanding of why -- and this is
3 Detective Petson Ira (phonetic) from the Bellingham Police
4 Department told me once that it appeared that the -- I mean,
5 I don't remember the name of the file, but basically the
6 index that keeps track of where all the files are on the
7 hard drive had been obliterated or erased, possibly by the
8 migration process -- the beginning of the migration process.
9 And so there's a lot of data on the hard drive.
10 We just weren't able to make sense of it into files.
11 Q. Do you attribute that to Murphy?
12 A. I don't attribute it to anything. I have no
13 evidence one way or the other.
14 Q. Okay. In No. 31, just up from that --
15 A. Uh-huh.
16 Q. -- the last sentence is "electronically, because
17 a clone is an exact copy" -- do you see the next section?
18 A. Uh-huh.
19 Q. -- "the investigator was unable to find any
20 electronic evidence."
21 Since May when you drafted this, do you have any
22 additional evidence to put forward that says that the hard
23 drive that was seized is anything but the county's hard
24 drive?
25 A. Say that one more time.
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1 Q. Sure. It says here that you were unable to find
2 any electronic evidence.
3 A. Which one is that?
4 Q. The end of 31.
5 A. Oh, right. Okay.
6 Q. My question is: Since you wrote this in May --
7 A. Uh-huh.
8 Q. -- we're now in November. Are you aware of any
9 additional evidence than what you had in May where you have
10 no evidence?
11 A. No. I'm not aware of any additional evidence.
12 Q. Okay. No. 34, you asked -- in short, you asked
13 Roth, and he said no with regards to changing out the hard
14 drive.
15 Do you see that?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What was the difference from your perspective of
18 him saying no and Murphy saying no?
19 A. I don't know what you mean.
20 Q. Well, Paul Murphy said that he didn't change it
21 out too, correct, when he was initially -- said, "This is
22 mine" and "This is the same"; and he said, "Yes, he hadn't
23 changed it out"?
24 A. At one point he said that, yes. At one point he
25 said no.
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1 Q. Correct. Why was his no not treated the same as
2 Roth's no?
3 A. Because Murphy gave different accounts.
4 Sometimes he said no, that he hadn't messed with -- that he
5 hadn't cloned it; sometimes he said yes. And then sometime
6 later, I think the last one was, he wasn't sure.
7 Q. Okay. And in 34, it refers to a Dell laptop,
8 too. Do you see that?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. Is this investigation solely about the
11 Toughbook or does it include prior laptops that were
12 assigned?
13 A. This just included the Toughbook.
14 Q. And why, then, do you have the Dell referenced in
15 the No. 34?
16 A. Just as a matter of -- that was the computer that
17 Roth had at the time, and I -- to be thorough. That, I
18 believe, was also the Dell that Deputy Murphy had had.
19 And so while I was talking with Roth, I just
20 said, "Had you messed with any computers, either that one or
21 the one you currently have"?
22 He said, "No."
23 Q. Okay. Did Roth know about the investigation into
24 Murphy and the computer and the hard drive issue?
25 A. I believe so.
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1 Q. Okay. So would it have been in his interest to
2 have said yes?
3 A. To have said yes, meaning --
4 Q. That he changed out a hard drive.
5 A. I don't know.
6 Q. Well, isn't Murphy's in this investigation
7 because he said that he had changed out a hard drive?
8 A. That he had cloned a hard drive, yes.
9 Q. That he had changed out a hard drive and cloned?
10 A. Okay.
11 Q. Because we're talking about two hard drives
12 somewhere in here?
13 A. Right.
14 Q. And so wouldn't your investigative sense say that
15 of course Roth is going to say no, too, to avoid being
16 involved in an investigation like Murphy is?
17 A. That is one possibility.
18 Q. Okay. In No. 37, when the investigator asked
19 Murphy to describe the process he had used to clone the hard
20 drive, Murphy described it as a bit-for-bit exact copy.
21 Do you see that?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. When you were talking to Murphy, did you record
24 it? Did you record your interview?
25 A. Yes.
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1
MR. BUTLER: We' l l get a copy of t hat , Counsel ?
2
We don' t have a copy of t he r ecor ded i nt er vi ew.
3
MR. GI BSON: I f you submi t a r equest f or i t ,
4
you' l l get i t .
5
MR. BUTLER: Okay.
6
BY MR. BUTLER:
7 Q. The audio may clarify, but do you know if your
8 question had a time link to it as far as when this clone had
9 happened?
10 A. I would have to look at the transcript of the
11 interview to determine that. I don't recall.
12 Q. Okay. Do you recall if you identified the
13 computer in that question that led to Finding No. 37?
14 A. Again, I'd have to look at the transcript.
15 Q. Okay. Were you aware prior to this investigation
16 that Paul Murphy was a bit of a computer junky, gadget guy?
17 A. Yes. I would describe him that way.
18 Q. Were you aware that he worked on computers at his
19 house; that he --
20 A. No. I wasn't aware of that. I was aware that he
21 was computer savvy, I guess, to use a loose term. But I
22 wasn't aware that he actually mechanically -- until this
23 investigation.
24 Q. How computer savvy were you terminology-wise
25 prior to this investigation?
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1 A. On what scale? I would consider myself
2 relatively savvy.
3 Q. Okay. No. 39 is: "Clone is a term with
4 biological origins that means one that is an exact replica
5 of another."
6 Do you see that?
7 A. I do.
8 Q. Why is that there?
9 A. I was trying to take any personal understanding
10 of the term clone out of -- out of the equation. I wanted
11 to find some objective way -- evidence that would show what
12 people consider a clone of a hard drive to be.
13 So I was trying to actually remove my savviness
14 from the investigation and find some objective and
15 independent verification of what clone means.
16 Q. And did you use that definition in any of your
17 questions with Perry or Paul or anybody else in the
18 investigation?
19 A. The biological one?
20 Q. Yeah.
21 A. No, I did not.
22 Q. Is it possible in your investigation that people
23 were using the words "clone," "copy" differently than the
24 definition you were using?
25 A. Of course.
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1 Q. Do you recall taking any steps to ensure that the
2 words that you were saying and the words that you were
3 receiving were containing the same definition?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. How did you do that?
6 A. In, I believe it was the first interview with
7 Deputy Murphy, he raised the question of that issue, and
8 there was discussion. And, again, I'd have to refer to the
9 transcript, but I attempted to clarify exactly what I was
10 talking about.
11 Q. Okay. No. 46, you were unable to locate any IT
12 employee who recalls the conversation with Murphy about
13 cloning a hard drive.
14 Do you have, with Enclosure 16 and 17, a list of
15 who you talked to?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did that list include past employees of the IT
18 department?
19 A. One past employee.
20 Q. Who is that?
21 A. Stewart Eng.
22 Q. Eng?
23 A. E-n-g, Eng.
24 Q. Are there other former employees of that
25 department that you did not reach?
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1 A. Oh, I'm sure.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. Well, let me clarify. I did not attempt to reach
4 any other former employees.
5 Q. Why not?
6 A. Because in discussions with Perry, he felt that
7 Stewart Eng would be really the only other one he could
8 think of that would have had this type of contact with
9 Deputy Murphy because he was the main point of contact for
10 the sheriff's office before John Dalquist.
11 Q. Okay. And how long has Perry been with the
12 county?
13 A. I don't know.
14 Q. Not very long, right?
15 A. A few -- five years.
16 Q. Five years, seven years?
17 A. Something like that, yeah.
18 Q. And Murphy's been with the county longer?
19 A. I believe so. I don't know that for a fact.
20 Q. Okay. And we're talking about swapping out stuff
21 that goes back over time, correct?
22 A. Uh-huh, yes.
23 Q. In fact, are you aware of any -- with regard to
24 the computer -- any conduct in 2012 related to Paul Murphy's
25 computer that would be a violation of any policy?
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1 A. I don't understand. What do you mean?
2 Q. Is there any allegation that he changed out a
3 hard drive in 2012 or did any cloning in 2012 or anything
4 like that?
5 A. There's no specific allegation that's worded that
6 way, if that's what you're asking.
7 Q. Okay. Is there any evidence that you came across
8 that would say this event happened in 2012?
9 A. No. Like I said before, there's -- I have no way
10 of knowing if or when he cloned a county hard drive.
11 Q. Okay. And, in fact, you don't know if it was in
12 2011, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. You don't know if it was 2010?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. In fact, did you talk to Perry about the ability
17 to do this postmigration?
18 A. Probably, but I don't remember that discussion
19 specifically.
20 Q. Wasn't the purpose of the migration, as
21 identified in your earlier finding, to avoid this kind of
22 thing from happening?
23 A. Yes. But my understanding was that I don't
24 believe that necessarily prohibited someone from making a
25 bit-for-bit or a cloned copy of the hard drive itself.
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1 Q. Okay. Did anybody in the IT department have an
2 explanation for why the 20 gig wasn't a red flag of some
3 problem?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Would it be a fair assumption for somebody who
6 turns in a computer and the hard drive isn't right, but
7 nothing happens from it, to assume that there's no problem
8 with it because nothing happened?
9 A. That is one possibility.
10 Q. How would you describe the other possibility?
11 A. From my discussions with John Dalquist and Perry
12 Rice, it appears that -- to me that John knew that that was
13 odd, but for whatever reason just chose to put it aside and
14 not address it with anyone.
15 Q. Do you know how long John had been the sheriff
16 liaison?
17 A. A couple of years.
18 Q. Do you know if in 2010 he was new to the sheriff
19 or if he had history with the sheriff?
20 A. I don't remember.
21 Q. Okay.
22 (Discussion held off the record.)
23 BY MR. BUTLER:
24 Q. In looking at the log in reference to 47 and 48
25 that you talked with John about, do you recall seeing
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1 anything about Roth's computer, which became Murphy's
2 computer, having any performance issues?
3 A. Well, any performance -- yes. We were -- I was
4 made aware of the fact that the computer Roth was using has
5 a performance issue.
6 Q. And that predated the migration, correct?
7 A. I don't know.
8 Q. Did Roth have the computer at the migration?
9 A. I would have to look through the investigation to
10 see when the migration occurred versus when Roth got that
11 computer. I can't tell you off the top of my head.
12 Q. We can go back. I'm not meaning to trick you.
13 A. Okay. I'm being as helpful as I can.
14 Q. You're doing great. I appreciate that.
15 Earlier we talked about the county got the
16 Toughbooks in '06, and it was initially given to Roth in '06
17 and it was given to Murphy in '08.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. And the migration was in '10. It wasn't meant to
20 be a trick question. It was just meant to be -- Roth didn't
21 have the computer in '10?
22 A. Which one? The Toughbook?
23 Q. Right.
24 A. I believe that's correct.
25 Q. But the records show that that Toughbook that
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1 originally was Roth's, then Murphy's, had performance
2 issues, correct?
3 A. Oh, not the Toughbook that I'm aware of. I know
4 the -- let me think. You're talking about the Toughbook and
5 not Roth's Dell computer; is that correct?
6 Q. That's correct.
7 A. Let me think. I would have to look through the
8 investigation --
9 Yeah. I'm not sure. It's possible.
10 Q. Do you remember that being something to look at,
11 that "I want to know if this Toughbook had any performance
12 issues, so I'm going to talk to John about the history of
13 this Toughbook"?
14 A. I'm sure it was discussed.
15 Q. Okay. In No. 50 and 56 -- I'm trying to kind of
16 speed things up a little bit here.
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. In 50, that's when they're at the sector class
19 and he was hesitant to have somebody else on his computer,
20 but he relented and let Dalquist do the upgrade, right?
21 A. No. That's not correct. He relented and let
22 Dave Scott do the upgrade. Dalquist was not there at that
23 point.
24 Q. Okay. The upgrade happened?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. He allowed access?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. We already talked about your awareness of his
4 being concerned about corruption, correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Do you know if others in the department were
7 aware of his concern about corruption, or was that a unique
8 knowledge of yours?
9 A. Oh, no. Others were aware.
10 Q. Okay. And then looking at 56.
11 A. Uh-huh.
12 Q. You identified that there were numerous sheriff's
13 office reports authored by Murphy.
14 A. Uh-huh.
15 Q. Is that a problem? Is anything in 56 a problem
16 or inappropriate on a deputy's hard drive to have reports?
17 A. None of that is against policy, no.
18 Q. Okay. Why did you include 56 if that's not any
19 kind of a policy violation?
20 A. Because it's part of a thorough investigation. I
21 mean, part of the concern initially was that he was keeping
22 some sort of off-the-books, off-the-record investigations on
23 his Toughbooks of which, again, his supervisors were not
24 aware, of a law-enforcement nature.
25 And so I wanted to -- 56 was an attempt to
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1 describe that it did not appear to me, although I did not
2 read every investigation that was on the laptop, that there
3 was anything untoward on there.
4 Q. Okay. How long did you spend with the
5 computer -- with the hard drive, looking at files?
6 A. I would have to estimate. Me, personally, or in
7 the presence of Officer Petson Ira?
8 Q. Let's go with you personally, and then we'll back
9 up to the BPD component to this.
10 A. I would say a few hours at the most.
11 Q. And we heard yesterday a term "working copy."
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And the working copy was created by BPD, and the
14 working copy was given back to the sheriff's office.
15 Are you familiar with that process?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. With regards to the hard drive you were looking
18 at, do you know what hard drive you were looking at?
19 A. I used a working copy.
20 Q. Did you look at any content on the original, if
21 you will, before the working copy was made?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Did you ever see the original hard drive?
24 A. Yes. I have it in my possession.
25 Q. So BPD doesn't have it?
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1 A. No. That's correct. You're talking about the
2 physical hard drive itself?
3 Q. Yes.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. All right. Walk me through that process.
6 A. Okay.
7 Q. So on the 10th, the Toughbook is seized. Walk me
8 through where the hard drive itself has gone.
9 A. I was not involved when it was -- the working
10 copy was made. I was not a part of that process, nor was I
11 present. But my understanding was they gave it to somebody
12 at BPD who made a copy of it.
13 That working copy eventually ended up with me.
14 And for a time, Chief Edge kept the original hard drive in a
15 locked drawer. And so we worked with the working copy.
16 Q. Okay. We heard yesterday that the original hard
17 drive was put in a locked drawer, then went to BPD.
18 Did it come back the locked drawer or did it come
19 back to you?
20 A. Yes. It came back to the locked drawer for a
21 period of time, yes, and I gave it back to Edge to put it
22 back in the locked drawer.
23 Q. You indicated the working copy was a copy. Was
24 it a clone, a copy, a mirror, a ghost?
25 A. I'm not that computer savvy. I know that officer
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1 Petson Ira from the Bellingham Police Department took all of
2 the data on that hard drive and put it on his machine over
3 there.
4 Q. Okay. And if I understood your earlier
5 statement, you didn't have anything to do with that; you
6 weren't tasked with that being a part of your investigation
7 to get a working copy made?
9 Q. I'll go find somebody to do it. BPD's going to
10 do that --
11 A. Initially, that's correct.
12 Q. Who made the decision to use BPD as opposed to --
13 who's your guy at the sheriff's department for that?
14 A. Al Smith is our computer forensics expert.
15 Q. Okay. Why not Al?
16 A. I think it was -- I don't remember who made the
17 decision, but I believe it was felt that since he was part
18 of the same bargaining unit as Deputy Murphy and this
19 investigation was part -- was into a member of the
20 bargaining unit, that we'd like to keep that separate.
21 Q. Why BPD and not state patrol or some other
22 separate agency?
23 A. No. We were aware of Scott Petson Ira, and he
24 was convenient and available.
25 Q. All right. 67, this is in the section referred
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1 to as "other statements." 66 and 67 say -- in 66, "I'm
2 going to get to the bottom of it. Someone will pay for
3 this."
4 67 says, "This is far from over, gentlemen; far
5 from over."
6 Why did you include those statements?
7 A. Because that appeared to me that those would
8 potentially violate one of our policies.
9 Q. Is it expected that if you're being accused of
10 something, you're going to say, "Yippee. Can I give you all
11 a hug? This is super duper"?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Was there a feeling of "this is far from over,
14 gentlemen; far from over" was some kind of threat?
15 A. Yes, I believe so.
16 Q. And would it not equally be a fair assessment to
17 say we're here today in November pursuing it from being over
18 real soon in June?
19 A. Within the context of the investigation, I don't
20 believe so.
21 Q. Within the context of the investigation, did you
22 expect Deputy Murphy to just say, Okay. I'm throwing away
23 my career on June 12 with Sheriff Elfo firing me?
24 A. No.
25 Q. So isn't it pretty fair to assume that he would
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1 pursue that?
2 A. Sure.
3 Q. And you said it before, but you were aware that
4 he thought that there was corruption in the department?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did he ever voice to you in the course of this
7 investigation that he thought this was an extension of that
8 corruption?
9 A. Not specifically, no.
10 Q. Okay. Conclusions, No. 4 on Page 12. These are
11 based on No. 4, at least, ends with, "However, it is likely
12 that Murphy did so."
13 Do you see that?
14 A. No. 4 where? No, I don't.
15 Q. Allegations No. 1, 2, paragraph No. 4.
16 A. Okay. So starting with Paragraph No. 7 there; is
17 that what you mean?
18 Q. No. Paragraph No. 4.
19 A. Oh, up at the top. I'm sorry. Under the first
20 two allegations?
21 Q. Yeah. Sorry. Not allegation 4.
22 A. Yes. I see what you're talking about now.
23 Q. That's just opinion on your part, correct?
24 A. It is a conclusion drawn on the basis of the
25 findings of fact.
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1 Q. And it starts with you were unable to establish
2 whether he actually ever cloned a hard drive, right?
4 Q. And you have no evidence that he did clone a hard
5 drive, correct?
6 A. No direct evidence, yes.
7 Q. You have no direct evidence that he used such a
8 hard drive to access nonpublic secure networks? Reading
9 your sentence there, not the capital ACCESS.
10 A. I have no evidence one way or the other.
11 Q. So we're essentially coming to this conclusion
12 based on his confusing responses to questions?
13 A. That's part of it.
14 Q. Saying yes; saying no; saying yes; saying I don't
15 know?
16 A. That's part of it, yes.
17 Q. Okay. And the other part is what?
18 A. I'd have to look back through the investigation.
19 Do you want me to do that?
20 Q. Well, I'm looking at Paragraph 4 there, under
21 allegations 1 and 2.
22 A. Uh-huh.
23 Q. And, I mean, it refers to Findings No. 30 and 32.
24 A. Right.
25 Q. I guess we could go look at 30 and 32, but I
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1 thought we had clarified that the county --
2 A. One of the other things that that statement is
3 based on is in Paragraph 1 under the same section, "it's
4 clear that he removed a hard drive."
5 Q. How is that clear?
6 A. Because the one -- there are two 80-gigabyte hard
7 drives that were issued to him. The county only got one
8 back.
9 Q. How do you know that?
10 A. Two in total.
11 Q. Perry Rice says he doesn't know that that hard
12 drive was ever an 80 gig to start with.
13
MR. BUTLER: I obj ect . That i s an i ncor r ect
14
assessment of what Per r y Ri ce sai d.
15
BY MR. BUTLER:
16 Q. Okay. I'll rephrase. Perry Rice says he did not
17 inspect the computer to determine if the computer that was
18 issued, in fact, came from the manufacturer with an 80 gig.
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. You told me today you didn't either.
21 A. That's true.
22 Q. So without that fact, how do you know that that
23 computer came from the manufacturer properly designed?
24 A. The standard proof here is preponderance of the
25 evidence, and we have lots of documentary evidence that show
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1 that it came to us with an 80-gigabyte hard drive.
2 Q. And the documentary evidence is a purchase order
3 saying, "We want 40 Toughbooks with 80-gig hard drives?
4 A. Yes. And after the fact, the actual -- yes,
5 that's correct.
6 Q. Okay. In Allegation 5, Paragraph 10 --
7 A. On Page 13?
8 Q. Correct. Paragraph 5, my confusion.
9 And the ending sentence that goes over to the
10 next page is: "If, as Murphy asserted, he made assumptions
11 about what was being asked rather than what was actually
12 asked, he had no basis for doing so."
13 Do you see that?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. Have you ever had occasion to observe Paul
16 Murphy -- out of this context of this investigation, but
17 before -- to be confused?
18 A. I can't recall a specific instance.
19 Q. Are you aware of him ever being reprimanded or
20 counselled with regards to forgetting stuff, not doing stuff
21 right, being late, that kind of a thing?
22 A. He's been reprimanded before, yes.
23 Q. What do you know of him to be reprimanded for?
24 A. Like we discussed earlier that other
25 investigation that I conducted, he was reprimanded for not
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1 obeying a direct order and not carrying out what his
2 sergeant told him to do.
3 Q. Anything else come to mind?
4 A. Nothing specific right now.
5 Q. Were you aware of the sheriff wanting him to have
6 a fit for duty --
7 A. I don't believe it was a fit for duty, but I was
8 aware of that. He was sent down to Dr. Ekemo (phonetic), to
9 talk to Dr. Ekemo. Yes.
10 Q. So with regard to that sentence, how is it that
11 you can come to the conclusion that he had no basis to be
12 confused?
13 A. That sentence is an expression of the fact that I
14 felt that the questions that were asked of him were very
15 clear.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. And that's what the sentence says.
18 Q. From your perspective?
19 A. Correct. Of course.
20 Q. And the terminology of cloning and copying is not
21 first language to most of us, correct?
22 A. I wouldn't think so.
23 Q. Are you aware of any other investigations that
24 you've conducted where you didn't have any evidence -- as
25 here, where you don't have any evidence, that a person was
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1 disciplined based solely on their words?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Okay. You --
4 A. Well, it's a multipart -- ask the question again.
5 I'm sorry.
6 Q. Sure. And that's a great example of following
7 the directions at the beginning of the deposition.
8 Taking out of the -- any discipline for words
9 alone, any offenses -- in other words, fighting words or
10 telling the supervisor to go do something to themselves --
11 where the only evidence is the nonoffensive spoken word of
12 the deputy, resulted in discipline?
13 A. Am I aware of a situation where a deputy was
14 disciplined solely because of words that he would say are
15 nonoffensive?
16 Q. Yeah.
17 A. Well, that would assume I'm aware of every --
18 Q. I'm sorry. Any investigations you've done as the
19 investigator.
20 A. I would have to look. There are several cases
21 where an -- part of an investigation turned on what the
22 deputy said, but I'm not sure that I recall one -- whether
23 it was one based solely on what a deputy, as you say, said
24 that was nonoffensive.
25 Q. Okay. Did you inquire of Dalquist or anybody at
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1 the IT department whether any other computers in the last 15
2 years -- so going back to, say, 12 years; going back to,
3 say, '99 to 2000, somewhere in there -- had been modified in
4 any way by a sheriff office personnel?
5 A. Not in that part of a context, no.
6 Q. Okay. Are you aware of deputies modifying the
7 handguns they were using?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Their weapon?
10 A. Sure.
11 Q. Those are county issued, correct?
12 A. Now they are. They did not used to be.
13 Q. They're county-owned --
14 A. Mine is not.
15 Q. And how did you get yours to not be?
16 A. There was a time where we were all expected to
17 purchase our own handguns.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. And that's just the way it was. At some point,
20 the county changed and decided to issue the handguns to
21 their personnel.
22 And there was a brief period in between that
23 where deputies who had already bought their handguns between
24 a certain time period were offered a chance, as in deputy
25 Murphy's case, to essentially sell their handgun back to the
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1 county.
2 I was in the previous group that wasn't either
3 offered that option or issued a handgun. I bought my
4 handgun.
5 Q. Okay. Focusing on the county tract handguns.
6 You're aware that officers modified those, correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And is that a violation?
9 A. Well, it would depend on the modification. There
10 are modifications that are permitted, yes.
11 Q. And do they have to be done by the county or can
12 they do them themselves or take it to a gunsmith to have it
13 done?
14 A. I don't remember the exact guidance, but I
15 believe in some cases they -- for instance, putting a light
16 on their handgun, which is something relatively new that
17 deputies do. They can do that themselves.
18 Q. Okay. What about changing the firing mechanism,
19 making it closer to automatic?
20 A. Possibly -- that would possibly violate policy.
21 Q. Okay. You're aware of deputies doing that,
22 though, correct, modifying guns in that way?
23 A. Not specifically, no. You're talking about
24 making them a handgun, modifying it to where it's closer to
25 an automatic?
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1 Q. Uh-huh.
2 A. No. I'm not aware of that.
3 Q. What modifications are you aware of other than
4 putting a flashlight on it?
5 A. To handguns --
6 Q. I'm not going to ask you who you know. So I'm
7 not going to try to rat somebody out, but --
8 A. I understand.
9 Q. You've got friends in the department. You've
10 seen modifications. What have you seen?
11 A. Handgun vice grips. Deputies put rubberized
12 grips on a handgun versus the one I'm carrying, which is a
13 Glock 27, which has a very short magazine. Some deputies
14 will put a little extension on there, and it allows you to
15 more firmly hold it, a little finger extension.
16 Q. Uh-huh.
17 A. So those are the only specific ones that come to
18 mind right now.
19 Q. Does the county issue long arms for their shotgun
20 or rifle?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Are you aware of any modifications being done to
23 those?
24 A. Not that are outside of officially acknowledged
25 ones.
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1 Q. And if you modify a weapon that is the county's,
2 whether it's a handgun or a long arm, does that have to be
3 registered with the county that I did this to this tracking
4 item, or can you do it without telling them?
5 A. I believe -- I would have to look at the policy,
6 but I believe the policy requires that you inform the
7 county.
8 Q. Okay. So we started with what you do. And you
9 get tasked and you follow your task. And then we narrowed
10 your job description and started dealing with this
11 investigation.
12 Let's now go back and expand using this as an
13 example.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. You've been tasked with an investigation. You do
16 an investigation. Then what happens?
17 A. I forward my report along with basically the
18 investigation itself, which includes my report with all of
19 the enclosures, to the bureau chief in question, whoever the
20 bureau chief at the time in whose the bureau the employee
21 works.
22 That bureau chief then reviews the investigation.
23 He or she has the option of sending it back to me and asking
24 that more work be done if they feel I should have
25 interviewed a witness that I didn't interview or got a
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1 conclusion wrong or something like that.
2 And then, based on that, when they feel it's
3 complete, they write recommendations to the sheriff on what
4 to do about the allegations, how to dispose of them.
5 Q. Do you supply recommendations?
6 A. No.
7 Q. And do you -- does anybody in the -- before you
8 give it to the command, do you speak with anybody at the
9 prosecutor's office about your investigations?
10 A. I'm sure I have in the past.
11 Q. Okay. But that's not a -- a function of the job,
12 to do the investigation, run it by the prosecutor, give it
13 to command? Is that in your --
14 A. Not at the point I'm doing it, no.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. And usually, if that happens, that would usually
17 happen later.
18 Q. You -- so to get the chronology, you get the --
19 your report, then, and you give it up the chain and they say
20 yes.
21 Do you do anything else?
22 A. Again, it goes through several levels. It goes
23 up to the bureau chief, and then the bureau chief -- the
24 investigation essentially isn't complete until the sheriff
25 has read it and feels that it's complete and that the
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1 situation he wanted documented and investigated has been
2 completely documented to his satisfaction.
3 So it goes from the bureau chief, as I described,
4 to the undersheriff, who does essentially the same thing,
5 and then to the sheriff.
6 At some point, the sheriff will, usually in
7 written form, send me a note saying, "I declare the
8 investigation is complete," and that starts another clock
9 ticking.
10 Q. Okay. And after you get the memo complete --
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Do you do anything else relative to the
13 investigation that you just got a complete on?
14 A. Yes. I will inform if there are any witnesses
15 that we have that are employees of the sheriff's office that
16 we have ordered not to speak about it, I will relieve them
17 of that obligation.
18 Q. Okay. How do you do that?
19 A. It's written form. I will e-mail them a memo.
20 Usually, it's an e-mail that basically says, "You are part
21 of an investigation that was recently concluded. You are
22 now relieved -- during that investigation you were ordered
23 not to speak about it. You are now relieved of that
24 obligation."
25 Q. Okay. Anything else? I'm sorry. Anything else
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1 in the time line?
2 So you get complete. You relieve the witnesses.
3 Do you do anything else with regards to an investigation?
4 A. I'm the keeper of the file. So as the
5 investigation progresses up through to and including the
6 sheriff, if they issued letters or memos, eventually those
7 will come back to me and I save them in the file, in the
8 official original file.
9 Q. Okay. Anything else?
10 A. Again, if any of those people I mentioned want
11 more investigation, then I will do that. And essentially --
12 Q. That part's complete?
13 A. No, no. Once the sheriff has said it's complete,
14 no.
15 Q. All right. But we're just on the time line, so
16 again, complete --
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. -- and then you relieve the witnesses?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. You become the trustee of the file?
21 A. Right.
22 Q. Do you take any more action? Are you tasked with
23 anymore duty after you get the complete?
24 A. I don't believe so, no. That's it. We're done.
25 Q. Okay. All right.
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1 A. Unless something like this comes up.
2 Q. Okay. With regards now to this investigation,
3 when you handed it up to the bureau chief, which you said is
4 who you give it to initially, did the bureau chief ask you
5 to change anything, do anything more, modify anything you've
6 written?
7 A. I don't believe so.
8 Q. Okay. After it goes to the bureau chief, it goes
9 to the undersheriff?
10 A. Yes, that's correct.
11 Q. That's Parks?
13 Q. Did Parks ask you to add anything, subtract
14 anything, change a sentence, do anything about this?
15 A. Not that I recall.
16 Q. Okay. Then it went to Elfo?
18 Q. Did he ask you to do anything, change anything,
19 modify anything?
20 A. Not that I recall. I'm not certain.
21 Q. How long does that process take? You get done;
22 you hand it to the bureau chief, to you getting a complete
23 in this case?
24 A. All of that, including my investigation up until
25 the sheriff declares that it's complete, can take no longer
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1 than 60 days by Collective Bargaining Agreement.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. So that particular review process, a week or two.
4 Q. All right.
5 A. Sometimes it's quicker if I've taken too long and
6 they only have a few days left in the time line.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. In this case, we had to ask for an extension
9 because I wasn't quite finished.
10 Q. All right. Prior to giving your report to the
11 bureau chief, do you give anybody status reports, updates?
12 A. Yes, certainly.
13 Q. In this particular case, who did you give status
14 reports to?
15 A. Normally, it would be either the bureau chief --
16 I don't recall a specific instance, but I'm certain that I
17 kept Deputy -- or Chief Chadwick, Undersheriff Parks, and
18 the sheriff informed of its progress.
19 Q. Do you recall any meetings where the four of you
20 discussed this during the investigation between February
21 and -- or between February and May when you kind of wrote
22 this?
23 A. Excuse me. I don't recall any specific meeting,
24 but I'm sure that that occurred on at least one occasion.
25 Q. And -- excuse me again. What's the purpose of
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1 that meeting?
2 A. Just to keep them advised of what's going on, and
3 there's multiple purposes.
4 Q. Do they direct you in you should go this way, or
5 is it just a one-way thing where you're saying, I'm doing
6 this, this, and this; and they say, Get on it?
7 A. No. Sometimes I'll ask for advice on what I
8 should do about a particular issue that I've come across.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. Could be a variety of things.
11 Q. Do you remember anybody above you recommending
12 that you pursue any additional forensic work on the -- the
13 80- or the 20-gigabyte hard drive?
14 A. I don't recall any recommendations that were made
15 to me that I didn't follow up on.
16 Q. Do you remember speaking with Dave McEachran
17 during the course of this investigation?
18 A. I have a vague recollection that I may have, but
19 I don't remember what that was about.
20 Q. Do you remember giving him the copy of your
21 report?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Do you remember when you gave him a copy of your
24 report in the scheme of the time line you've just described
25 for us?
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1 A. You know, it would have been after it was
2 completed. I made several copies of this binder that I have
3 in front of me. I think I gave that to him.
4 Q. All right.
5 A. Because I think it was felt that Deputy Murphy
6 was going to challenge the findings of the investigation.
7 And so I think McEachran's office is our legal adviser in
8 that regard.
9 Q. Dan Gibson's your legal adviser at the
10 department, right? Why didn't you give it to Dan?
11 A. I don't recall. I think I was -- I was likely
12 directed to by the sheriff.
13 Q. Okay. Do you remember having a conversation with
14 Dave about the investigation?
15 A. When I handed it to him, I'm sure we had some
16 sort of a conversation, but I -- I don't -- honestly don't
17 recall the contents of that.
18 Q. Do you recall that he was aware of the
19 investigation that you were giving him, or did he go, Wow,
20 Steve. What's this? I have no idea what you're talking
21 about here?
22 A. I don't recall.
23 Q. Did you give a copy to Dan Gibson?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. So the giving it to Dave wasn't to have Dave give
COPY
Page 79
1 it to Dan?
2 A. No. I believe they were simultaneous.
3 Q. Do you remember if they were together when you
4 did that?
5 A. No, they were not.
6 Q. Okay. Prior to your deposition today, did you
7 discuss with anybody the deposition, what the deposition
8 would be about?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Who'd you discuss it with?
11 A. Dan Gibson.
12 Q. Okay. Anybody other than Dan?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Who?
15 A. Sheriff Elfo, Jeff Parks, Perry Rice came down to
16 our office shortly before I came up here.
17 Q. Okay. And tell me about the conversation that
18 you had with Perry and Elfo and Parks before you came up
19 here.
20 A. Perry just gave me a general idea of what to
21 expect and how he felt his deposition went.
22 Q. How did he feel his deposition went?
23 A. Do you want me to give specific statements that
24 he made?
25 Q. Absolutely.
COPY
Page 80
1 A. He said that you have to listen carefully to your
2 questions because sometimes they were long and you needed to
3 make sure you were answering the correct question.
4 Q. That was a rule I gave to you, correct?
5 A. That's correct. He repeated a couple of
6 questions that he was asked, I believe, and told me what his
7 answers were.
8 Q. What do you recall those to be?
9 A. What did he say? He was talking -- he
10 specifically said that you'd zeroed in on the terminology,
11 clone versus mirror versus image versus all of that, and he
12 told me there was a lengthy -- you came back to that subject
13 frequently.
14 And so I don't -- I believe he said when he was
15 asked for what a definition of what a clone was he -- there
16 was some back and forth about that, and eventually he said
17 something to the effect that it's a bit-for-bit copy.
18 Q. Do you remember anything else about what Perry
19 said?
20 A. Yeah, nothing's coming to mind right now. If I
21 think about it for a while, I may remember more.
22 Q. Okay. Where is your office?
23 A. My office is over at the Jail Work Center.
24 Q. Okay. And where did this meeting with Perry take
25 place?
COPY
Page 81
1 A. We have a morning chief's meeting with the
2 undersheriff at the -- in the sheriff's office conference
3 room --
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. -- at the sheriff's office itself.
6 Q. All right.
7 A. Perry came into that meeting unannounced to, I
8 believe, talk with someone else about some other matter.
9 And I walked in, and he was there.
10 Q. All right. Did other people leave so that the
11 four of you could have this conversation?
12 A. The only ones present were me, Chief Chadwick,
13 and the undersheriff.
14 Q. Well, you said Elfo was there?
15 A. He came in and out, so he was probably there for
16 part of that, yeah. But nobody else was there.
17 Q. And tell me about the conversations about the
18 deposition with Chadwick and Parks.
19 A. Actually, I didn't have any direct conversation
20 with Chadwick about the deposition. The only thing I talked
21 with Parks about was that I had it today, and that was
22 essentially it.
23 When I said that, I meant we were all in that
24 room together, and that's where this discussion occurred.
25 The tables -- Parks was sitting here and Chadwick was here.
COPY
Page 82
1 We mostly just sat and listened.
2 Q. Anybody in that meeting this morning, either
3 before or during Perry being there, say anything else about
4 either Murphy or this case?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Was Parks not aware of your deposition today?
7 A. I had told him before. I don't know if he
8 remembered or not, but I think he -- I believe he asked me
9 when it was this morning. So I think he had forgotten.
10 Q. Did you speak with Sheriff Elfo about yours and
11 his depositions today?
12 A. Probably.
13 Q. What do you recall?
14 A. Yeah. We discussed that both of ours were today.
15 That's about it. I can't recall any specific anyway.
16 Q. About the --
17 A. The depositions, specifically, and that was it.
18 Both of our depositions today.
19 Q. Anything else about the case?
20 A. There were two issues that I discussed with Dan
21 this morning and that Dan made me aware of, and the sheriff
22 asked me about them.
23 Q. Okay. Was the sheriff there when you and Dan
24 were discussing it?
25 A. No.
COPY
Page 83
1 Q. So you relayed to the sheriff what you and Dan
2 had talked about?
3 A. When I came in this morning to the meeting, the
4 sheriff told me that Dan wanted me to call him. I called
5 Dan and Dan reviewed those two issues with me, and then the
6 sheriff asked me about them afterwards.
7
MR. BUTLER: Do you want t o asser t
8
at t or ney/ cl i ent ?
9
MR. GI BSON: Yep.
10
BY MR. BUTLER:
11 Q. If there's -- did you clear up the two issues,
12 then?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did the two of you confer on that?
15 A. Sure.
16
MR. BUTLER: And so i f I chal l enged your
17
asser t i on, we don' t come back t o " we don' t know what we wer e
18
t al ki ng about " ? Because I don' t t hi nk you can asser t i t - -
19
MR. GI BSON: I under st and. I under st and t he
20
posi t i on.
21
MR. BUTLER: I t hi nk t hat t he pr i vi l ege was
22
br oken when he t al ked t o El f o about i t . So I t hi nk you' r e
23
on pr et t y t hi n l egal gr ound t o say you can' t t al k.
24
So I ' mnot aski ng what your conver sat i on wi t h
25
t hi s wi t ness i s; I ' maski ng what hi s conver sat i on wi t h El f o
COPY
Page 84
1
i s.
2
So i f you want t o pr ot ect i t , I j ust want t o make
3
sur e t hat t hat pr ot ect i on doesn' t get l ost i n t he f ut ur e i f
4
we get a r ul i ng on i t .
5
MR. GI BSON: Do you want t o st ep out f or a
6
second?
7
THE WI TNESS: Okay.
8
( Di scussi on hel d of f t he r ecor d. )
9
BY MR. BUTLER:
10 Q. What did you and Bill Elfo talk about before the
11 dep?
12 A. Well, I'd have to talk about -- I'd have to tell
13 you what Dan made me aware of; is that okay?
14
MR. GI BSON: That ' s f i ne.
15
BY MR. BUTLER:
16 Q. I just want to know about what you and Bill
17 talked about.
18 A. Right. Well, it's linked. Dan -- when I
19 discussed with Dan on the phone this morning, he made me
20 aware that you had asked Dave McEachran yesterday something
21 to the effect of, "Were you aware that Steve Cooley used his
22 badge somehow to obtain alcohol for Kristen Cavanaugh
23 (phonetic), and then also there was an accusation or some
24 questions about whether I had a sexual relationship with
25 Kristen Cavanaugh.
COPY
Page 85
1 The sheriff asked me about both of those issues
2 and if there was anything to them. My answers were no to
3 both.
4 Q. Anything further on that?
5 A. No.
6 Q. So your conversation with Elfo was those two
7 questions. That was it before your deposition today?
8 A. Essentially, yes. I mean, again, we walked in
9 and we acknowledged, Yeah, I've got my deposition today. I
10 know you do, too.
11 I asked him if I could have this binder if he had
12 it. I asked him if I could take it with me. Nothing else
13 substantive.
14 Q. Okay. Was he present for Perry's conversation?
15 A. Like I said, he was walking in and out. It's
16 possible.
17 Q. Do you remember seeing him talk to Perry about
18 the deposition with Perry -- his deposition yesterday?
19 A. I did not see him talk to Perry, no.
20 Q. Have you spoken with Janice Corbin about Paul
21 Murphy?
22 A. Never.
23
MR. BUTLER: That ' s i t .
24
( Deposi t i on concl uded at 10: 15 a. m. )
25
( Si gnat ur e r eser ved. )
COPY
Page 86
1 STATE OF WASHI NGTON )
) SS: C E R T I F I C A T E
2 COUNTY OF WHATCOM )
3
I , BETH L. DRUMMOND, Cer t i f i ed Cour t
4
Repor t er i n and f or t he St at e of Washi ngt on do her eby
5
cer t i f y;
6
That t he f or egoi ng i s t r ue and cor r ect
7
t o t he best of my ski l l , abi l i t y, and knowl edge,
8
t aken on t he dat e and at t he t i me and pl ace as shown
9
on Page Two her et o;
10
That I amnot r el at ed t o any of t he
11
par t i es t o t hi s l i t i gat i on and have no i nt er est i n t he
12
out come of sai d l i t i gat i on;
13
Wi t ness my hand and seal t hi s 6t h day of
14
May, 2014.
15
16
17
18
19 ________________________________
20 BETH L. DRUMMOND, CCR #2064
CERTI FI ED COURT REPORTER
21 I N AND FOR THE STATE OF
WASHI NGTON, RESI DI NG AT
22 BELLI NGHAM.
23
24
25
COPY
Page 87
1
2 I N THE STATE OF WASHI NGTON COUNTY OF WHATCOM
CI VI L SERVI CE BOARD
3
4 I n Re: Paul Mur phy
5
6
TO: DANI EL L. GI BSON
7 What comCount y Pr osecut i ng At t or ney
322 Nor t h Commer ci al , Sui t e 210
8 Bel l i ngham, Washi ngt on 98225
Pl ease have STEVE COOLEY cont act our of f i ce
9 t o r ead and si gn hi s deposi t i on t o not e any er r or s t hat
may have been made i n t he t r anscr i pt . Thi s needs t o be
10 done wi t hi n 30 days of t hi s l et t er , pur suant t o Washi ngt on
Repor t s 34A, Rul e ( e) , or t hr ee days pr i or t o t r i al ,
11 whi chever occur s f i r st .
I f t he si gned cor r ect i on sheet i s not
12 compl et ed wi t hi n t he speci f i ed t i me per i od, t he or i gi nal
t r anscr i pt wi l l be f i l ed wi t h Paul Mur phy.
13 Your pr ompt at t ent i on t o t hi s mat t er i s
gr eat l y appr eci at ed. I f t her e ar e any quest i ons I can
14 assi st you wi t h, pl ease f eel f r ee t o cal l .
15
_________________________________
16 PATTI E LONG, OFFI CE ADMI NI STRATOR
Cor pol ongo & Associ at es,
17 114 West Magnol i a, Sui t e 400- 110
Bel l i ngham, Washi ngt on 98225
18 ( 360) 671- 6298
May 6, 2014
19
20 C. C. Rober t But l er , Paul Mur phy
21
22
23
24
25
COPY
Page 88
1 TO THE WI TNESS:
PLEASE READ YOUR DEPOSI TI ON CAREFULLY. On t hi s cor r ect i on
2 sheet make not es of any er r or s I have made. Pl ease si gn
t hi s sheet at t he bot t om, and r et ur n t hi s t o me at 114 West
3 Magnol i a St r eet , Sui t e 429, Bel l i ngham, WA 98225. I f you
have any quest i ons, pl ease f eel f r ee t o cal l me at ( 360)
4 671- 6298.
_______________________________________________________
5 Page- l i ne cor r ect i on
_______________________________________________________
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
Si gned and dat ed t hi s ____ day of ___________, 2014.
24
See: Wash. Repor t s 34A, __________________________
25 Rul e 30( e) USC 28 STEVE COOLEY
COPY
Page 89
1 I N THE STATE OF WASHI NGTON COUNTY OF WHATCOM
2 CI VI L SERVI CE BOARD
3 I N RE: PAUL MURPHY
_____________________________
4
RE: Deposi t i on of : STEVE COOLEY
5 Taken on: November 9, 2012
Dat e f i l ed:
6 Pl ease be advi sed t hat t he above- r ef er enced deposi t i on wi l l
be f i l ed wi t h: PAUL MURPHY
7 1213 East Smi t h Road
8
____ The Deponent wai ved si gnat ur e.
9 ____ The deposi t i on has been r ead and si gned by t he
Deponent .
10 ____ No changes have been made t o t he deposi t i on.
____ The at t ached CORRECTI ONS sheet r ef l ect s t he changes
11 made.
____ The Deponent f ai l ed t o appear at our of f i ce or
12 not i f y us pur suant t o CR 26. 30( e) .
____ The Deponent r ef used t o si gn t he deposi t i on.
13 ____ Ot her .
14
_____________________________
15 PATTI E LONG, ADMI NI STRATOR
CORPOLONGO & ASSOCI ATES, I NC.
16 114 West Magnol i a, Sui t e 400- 100
17 ( 360) 671- 6298
18 C. C. Rober t But l er , Dani el Gi bson
19
20
21
22
23
24
COPY

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