A lot of people want to know why we have made some recent changes in our lives.

It is very complicated
and can take a while to explain. We go through a lot of that in this paper, but because of its length and
complexity, we have started off with a summary. Also, we organized and detailed our thoughts mostly in
bullet point format. Rather than changing all that to narrative format weve kept most of it as we created
it. Most importantly remember that we love all our Mormon friends and family just as much as always
and want to continue to associate with you just as much as always! Feel free to share this with others.
We are very comfortable with the decisions weve made and would like others to understand us, so feel
free to share or discuss this with anyone.

Jump to section links:
Summary
Why we wrote this
Carsons story
Marisas story
Incorrect assumptions people may have
Three reasons why we want to leave
Why we stay

Summary: short explanation of what we are doing
Despite being Mormon our entire lives we now want to partially separate ourselves from it.
We feel the LDS church is not Gods one true church as it states.
We feel there are some systemic (pervasive in and ubiquitous to the organization, not
always easily seen or noticed like systemic racism) problems that inhibit members from
being as good and emotionally developed as they otherwise could be. We now see how
parts of Mormonism (both its culture and doctrine) have been slowly poisoning our souls
and making us unhappy.
Those two personal conclusions make us feel that we dont want to or need to continue
being Mormon in the traditional sense. We will allow our kids to attend as much as they
want, but we will greatly limit our involvement with the church and its faith based practices.
Why we wrote this:
We want to own the narrative, tell our own story - others are saying things that are not
accurate and we want people to have access to our thoughts and reasons from the source
instead of from hearsay
People we love dearly are hurting because we have made this decision. We want them to
understand that we did it in an effort to follow truth and righteousness, even if they don't
agree or their paradigm doesn't allow them to understand what we have chosen to do.
There are certain assumptions that come with being active LDS that are not true anymore
for us, so we want people to know that we are no longer fully active. There are also certain
assumptions that come with not falling in line anymore, we want others to know how those
assumptions are at times incorrect.
How did we get here? Our stories...
Carsons story
There are two important things to know about my experience with Mormonism growing up.
First off, I loved it. I loved it more than most around me. I was captivated by the doctrine
and simplicity of life where you had the answers to almost everything. I remember reading
books like Mormon Doctrine and The Teachings of Joseph Smith. I also never felt like I
had a testimony based on a spiritual confirmation, just based on logic from what I
understood. I would feel good feelings at church at times when people would talk about
doing good things for others and I would feel a feeling of reverence at other times, but
those were the only feelings of the spirit I would feel.

Those didnt seem like a valid spiritual witness to me for two reasons. First off, I didnt feel
them when praying about the truthfulness of the gospel or the Book of Mormon, only when
people were doing good things for others. Secondly, I would feel those exact same
feelings at times that had nothing to do with the church like when I watched secular movies.
The example I most often give, but is one of many, is when I was watching the movie
Independence Day. It was about some aliens attacking earth. When the various countries
came together to fight against the aliens I felt the same feeling I felt at church at times.
How could that be, I asked myself? The only conclusion I could come up with was that
even though the movie didnt depict a true event and wasnt associated with the church, it
was about a good thing (people coming together) and that must be the spirit telling me that
is a good thing, even if it's fiction...but if thats true, then what would it mean if I feel that
while reading the Book of Mormon? Is the movie Independence Day Gods one true movie
or could the Book of Mormon be fiction that the spirit confirms as good? The narrative I got
from the church growing up that these feelings were the spirit confirming the truth of
Mormon Doctrine wasnt fitting my experiences.

I went on my mission with questions such as these but still a strong faith. I planned to be
the best missionary I possibly could and I knew that by doing that I could get that spiritual
experience I had longed for. I served in Argentina and when you serve there, you get to go
through the temple and do one session on your way home from the mission. Throughout
my entire mission I knew that I would receive my desired witness when I put my sacrifice
on the altar. This was more than faith. I didnt hope or assume, I truly, fully expected it. I
didnt think that it couldnt happen. After being definitely one of, if not the hardest working
missionary in my mission, the time finally came for me to go to the temple . Not only did I
not have the experience I was expecting, but it felt uncomfortable and unsettling. I had
never had a great experience but at least I would usually feel a quiet peace there, like
being alone in a park on a warm day, but this time was awkward like I shouldnt be there. I
didnt know why, but it was like an unexpected round house kick to the head in that it
completely blindsided me! Adding that to everything that I had been putting on the shelf of
doubts and problems for years suddenly made it collapse. I greatly feared that the church
wasnt true and there wasnt a God. Being on my way home from the mission wasnt a
good place to process that though, so I continued home and put that in the back of my
mind. I decided to fake it until I make it and hopefully I could get some answers later. I
reasoned that maybe I had incorrectly put my will on God and set myself up for failure.
I returned to BYU and decided to switch from engineering to pre-dental. I took a biology
class where I learned of the undeniable evidence for evolution and the biochemical basis of
emotions. I learned how we evolved as tribal people where we receive positive chemical
experiences when we do things that help our tribe (later I came to find this is called the
elevation effect). Suddenly all my doubts came crashing back again. These things that I
was learning fit my experiences and answered my questions better than the narrative I
received at church. I experienced that scary, lonely feeling that the church probably isnt
true and if there is a God, he/she/it isnt what I learned as a kid in the church. It was the
loneliest moment of my life

All growing up I felt that the reason that I didnt have a testimony must have been because I
was the problem, now I started to doubt that. Being a person who was raised on the
importance of work, I tried harder to be worthy of it. To obtain that worthiness and the
subsequent promised spiritual confirmations of the truth of the Mormon church that I was
looking for, I did things like pray and read my scriptures more than most (30 minutes a day
for several years). I even did the small things that most dont, such as write in my journal
for years, did a lot of family history, and went two decades only swearing 5 times total! The
thought of the system being broken never entered my mind, just that I was somehow
broken.

Since a spiritual witness never came and the biology I was learning made me feel like I
couldnt trust my emotions anymore anyway, I tried to study what I could in between those
remaining eight years of college and dental school to prove that the church was true
through logic. After dental school I had more time to read more, listen to podcasts on my
commute, read first-person accounts from journals and our churchs documents on the
history as it really happened. The more I learned, the less it looked like the church could
be true. All throughout this time I continued in personal, couple and family prayer, reading
my scriptures almost daily, writing in my journal weekly and putting everything I could into
my callings for the off-chance or with the hope that I was just seeing things wrong and that I
could one day get an answer. I loved Joseph Smith and felt like I had a testimony of him
and the restoration based on logic. The incomplete version of the story that I got from
church and feeling like everybody around me knew it was true, even if I didnt, combined
to make me feel like it had to be true. I thought I would understand as everyone else did
once I got more of the story. In addition to that, my wife pointed out a scripture to me a few
years ago in D&C 46:14 where some have the spiritual gift of knowing that Jesus is the
Christ and others are given the gift to believe on their words. I never felt like I had much of
a testimony of Jesus, but this verse showed me why. Maybe my mission was just to be
one who never got a testimony, but I could help others who were similar to stay in the
church and be faithful people. That hope faded over the years as I continued to learn the
true history and still never got a spiritual witness, despite trying so hard for so long.

During the past year as I kept learning more and more and believing less and less I was
definitely able to look at things from outside the box. This allowed me to see things without
feeling like I had to defend the church anymore. As I did this I was able to give an honest
evaluation of it all. Even though I wanted the church to be what it said it was and have the
security of having so many answers, I knew I was no longer able to see the church as
Gods one true church. People that knew everything like I did either left the church or
became members like Richard Bushman or Tyrel Givens: people who said that it was
greatly flawed, but they saw bits of God in it and that was enough for them to stay. Nobody
that knew the whole story believed in a traditional manner any more. Eventually both
Marisa and I decided that these things that had been bugging us for years were because
the system was broken, not because we were broken. When I opened up to people about
this, they would tell me that I should read and pray. This was always very hurtful because I
had been reading and praying for 37 years, probably more diligently than they had, but I
still didnt get an answer. How long was long enough? For how many years would I have
to continue before I could rightfully say that it wasnt true? I decided that I had done much
more than a reasonable effort. If God had wanted me to believe this was His one true
church then He would have given me the answer that I was told by His prophets and
apostles I would receive, but I didnt - so it couldnt be what it said.

For years I tried to live in the middle ground where I still was faithful but not traditionally
believing. There was a lot of pressure from others to tow the line. I tried to be a voice for
ways to help the church stop pushing so many doubters away and for traditionally believing
members to not leave their doubting spouses or children (a great summary of this is given
by my friend Bill Reel here). Furthermore, my continued reading made my basic
assumptions of the scriptures change significantly from the general members. I still saw
them as inspired, but more as mankinds attempt to understand God than actual dictations
from God through a person. The statements made in Sunday School were too often too
incorrect when one understands the historical context instead of the cultural interpretations
through a modern lens. This constant frustration from trying to create a middle ground in
Mormonism and help people understand the historical facts eventually became too
frustrating, and church no longer was enough of an uplifting experience to go every week.
From here we started to back away. As we did and lived a more authentic life we felt a
peace and happiness that we hadnt quite felt before. That gave us the courage to
continue to do what we thought was right and what God wanted instead of what the church
told us we should think and do. We let go of the things we thought were bad or
unnecessary and held on to what we thought was good. Focusing primarily on being kind
people and letting that guide our decisions has been a wonderful experience.

It obviously hasnt been all good. The anxiety of separating from something that entwined
itself into every aspect of our lives has been trying. Similarly, the judgement (mostly before
we said were done because people have responded surprisingly well to that) was difficult
to deal with, especially when people implied or said it was because we were being less
righteous. It makes us sad to hurt those we love and we know this hurts them.
Nevertheless, that negativity has been transient and minimal compared to the peace and
freedom that has come from being our authentic, good selves.

You may think I have changed a lot recently, but I have felt this way for a very long time, as
you can see. There are only two significant differences: 1-after being a doubter for so
long, I decided that long enough was long enough and that it was time to stop trying and to
draw my conclusions. 2-because of that I can now be more authentic and open with what I
have been keeping hidden from pretty much everyone buy my closest friends and family. I
havent changed, Im just being open about who I truly am. This has been such an
alleviation and removal of weight.
Marisas story:
Growing up in Washington I was an inquisitive child and a confident teenager. I was smart,
full of faith, outspoken, independent, and excited about my bright future. I felt deeply
spiritual, loved the gospel and tried to live it to the best of my ability. I felt like the churchs
doctrines and standards helped me to stay on a good path and I didnt think that my faith
conflicted with other principles that I believed in, such as scientific inquiry, logic and rational
thought, or free speech. I felt free to be my true self and I looked forward to a long life of
church activity, to a PhD in genetics, have children and raise them to seek for truth and
righteousness, dream big and follow their hearts. President Hinckley was the prophet and I
believed him when he said that men and women were equal in the church. I was proud to
carry his name as a Hinckley scholar at BYU.

I met Carson in the fall of my freshman year and after just a few dates I felt a strong
impression that this was the man I should marry. I was 19 and I had my future mapped
out, which didnt include marriage for a few more years, so I was shocked and frightened
when it seemed like to follow Gods prompting I would have to change all my plans and put
my trust in Him. This became even more difficult when Carson and I realized we have
opposite personalities in some ways. We now see how our strengths complement each
other, but at the time we really struggled to understand one another. At times our
relationship, during what is usually the honeymoon stage, was so difficult that I doubted if
I was making the right decision But every time I prayed about it I felt peaceful, so I made
what was for me a huge leap of faith and went on with the wedding plans. Two days before
my temple wedding I sat in horror through my endowment where I realized that men and
women are fundamentally unequal in the church, and the second-class positioning made
me feel for the first time that God must not love me as much as he loves men. At this point
my personal relationship with God began to unravel. I remembered that Laura Ingalls
Wilder in the Little House on the Prairie series had refused to promise to "obey" her
husband, and here, over 100 years later, I was being asked to do the same thing! I stayed
up crying half the night while my parents tried to convince me that it wasn't such a big deal.
I decided that although I hated the principle, I did still want to marry Carson and I could look
past the wording in the temple (the pinnacle of our religion) because I trusted him to
continue to treat me like an equal anyway.

At that time, my paradigm dramatically changed. I felt cultural pressure to not go to
graduate school, which was heavily underscored by the words of the prophets, especially in
my class called LDS Marriage and Family. I couldnt reconcile the sexism in the temple
and I doubted myself, truly wondering if women were, in fact, only a help-meet to men.
Despite my problems with the temple, I attended regularly, thinking that if I just kept going
then I would understand. It didnt even occur to me that the church, the prophets, or the
temple ceremony could be the problem. It must be a weakness of mine; a problem with
me. During that first year of marriage I cried frequently, feeling so alone, like God had
abandoned me even after I had proven faithful in doing what I felt was right. As Carson
applied to dental school, I decided that the best thing for me to was to give up on my
dreams and my preconceived notions of what my life would be. Instead I focused on being
a good, supportive wife and put all my energies into being a mother. So I got pregnant with
our first son, Trey, and threw myself into stay-at-home-motherhood, reading all the books,
learning to cook and clean and provide educational experiences and a loving home for our
kids much earlier than I would have wanted.

Over the past few years, I have started to realize how much my attempt to box myself into
the role of a subdued Mormon woman has undermined my self-confidence, even though
my husband hasn't been the one pushing me into that role. I have been suppressing my
own emotional growth, allowing myself to be dependent on my husband. I was constantly
beating myself up for not being good enough. I had horrible daily headaches from
clenching my teeth, tensing my neck and hunching my shoulders in an under-confident
posture. Over the years, Carson and I discussed problems we had with the church and its
doctrines hundreds of times and he shared with me many disturbing facts that his research
had uncovered. I accepted that church leaders, even prophets, are imperfect and therefore
sometimes say and do things that are incorrect. For a few years this paradigm worked for
me, and I was able to still believe that the fundamental truth claims of the church were
legitimate, and the inconsistencies and mistakes that I was now more aware of could be
explained enough to pacify my mind.

I have always loved science and the natural world. When I was a little girl I loved to look at
pictures in a book my parents had called the ABCs of nature. When I learned to read I was
captivated by history and science fiction and read hundreds of books. Science was always
my favorite subject in school and I loved reason and logic in everything from geometry
proofs to the scientific method. As an adult, I saw that the scientific community and the
way they search for truth is sometimes at odds with the religious community. I felt
somewhat torn between the two as I would hear my religion sometimes condemn science,
and scientists sometimes make fun of people of faith. I majored in Molecular Biology at
BYU and was relieved to find that though my professors understood and upheld evolution
as the unifying law of biology, they didnt see it as proof that God doesnt exist. My cell
biology classes were harder than anything I had previously encountered because they
pushed my mind to expand and taught me the skill of analytical thinking. This skill has
helped me to evaluate information in every aspect of my life, and while I have been able to
use it to come to good conclusions on everything from sleep training babies to advertising
for my husbands dental office, it has highlighted areas in the gospel where things dont
make sense. I also rely on the Spirit and/or my conscience or inner moral compass to help
me understand spiritual or religious questions, and many of the things that didnt add up
also didnt feel right. I have had a few distinct spiritual experiences in my life, which I
originally interpreted to mean that the LDS church is Gods true church on the earth. As I
look back over my life and my spiritual experiences, I can see God directing me, comforting
me, and helping me to feel His love and the redemptive power of the Savior all confirming a
belief in God, not necessarily the LDS church.

Over the past few months, I have gained the self-confidence to try to figure out what I really
want from my life, and not what I always thought I should want. Around this time Carson
became thoroughly convinced that the church isnt true, and going to church was becoming
so painful to him that he started to talk about not attending as often. I didnt want to be that
woman who drags her kids to church all alone, and at first I was angry and self-righteous. I
realized that no matter how justified I felt in my position, and even though I felt like self-
righteousness was okay or even good in order to keep me on the right track, it just felt
awful. I didnt want to think of my good husband as a bad person for wanting to leave the
church, but it was hard for me to get away from that assumption that I had been
encouraged to believe. I had to really face myself and my beliefs. I know that Carson is a
good person. Despite being agnostic for the past 17 years he has done everything the
church asked of him and kept himself worthy of a temple recommend until our local
leadership decided that his support for Ordain Women counted as affiliating with a group
whose teachings are contrary to the doctrines of the church. I put down my self
righteousness and faulty beliefs and opened myself up to the possibility that leaving the
church was a good decision for him.

I finally started to see that the church is just plain wrong on so many issues, is culturally
biased, and has changed its doctrine many times due to political and social pressures as
this faithful BYU professor explains here. I realized that it wasn't God who thought of me as
second-class, it was the Patriarchy of the church - and they aren't one and the same! I
decided that I needed to own my Mormonism, to see the ways it influences me that I may
not be aware of, and to find out how it had gotten so off-track to include the problems that I
now could see more clearly. If I sought for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, with a faithful perspective and pure intent, the true Gospel of Jesus Christ would hold
up to scrutiny.

Unfortunately, that was far from what I found. With the evidence that is now available and
the critical thinking skills I learned in college, combined with my life experiences and my gut
feelings, I quickly concluded that the LDS church is not, and never has been, Gods one
and only true church on the earth. I was devastated. This disappointment made it hard to
eat or sleep for weeks. My mind was reeling, constantly wondering what that meant for
me, my family, my future, my relationships.... I could hardly believe it, didnt want to believe
it, but I also couldnt deny the obviousness of that conclusion and still call myself a rational
person.

After the initial shell-shock, I started to feel a deep sense of being grounded that I hadnt
felt since before my first paradigm shift at nineteen. I was myself again! I felt connected to
God again. I felt happy. Now I feel like I can be more honest with myself because I'm not
feeling that pressure to be who someone else says I should be. I can respect my rational
mind more because I'm not making excuses for church history, doctrine or policy that I
don't agree with. I feel free to be my true self, to have and to share my own thoughts and
opinions in ways that I didnt before. And frankly, if the church hasnt brought me peace
and happiness in 35 years then I respect myself enough to distance myself from it and/or
find something better.

Incorrect assumptions people may have: Some things traditional members have said about us
leaving can be hurtful. Mainly because they assume we are naive or lacking in some way. Many
of these things are natural responses (we have said them ourselves about doubters in our past),
but they push doubting members away. In our experience, most of the doubting but faithful
members end up not wanting to attend anymore primarily because of these responses that dont
feel caring or empathetic:
You are looking for an excuse to sin: We didnt start doing anything that would make us
stop having the influence of the spirit. We diligently stayed temple recommend worthy the
entire time in an attempt to get the help and answers we so eagerly hoped for. Even now
that weve stepped away, our morals are still the same. We recently have made or are
open to making some changes because we dont feel the same constraints (wear
garments, not drink coffee) or obligations (go to church every Sunday) but we do feel
strongly the desire to be kind, moral and honest people. Ironically, but like many others
that have made the same transition, we feel less judgemental and more kind and loving
toward others.
You were lazy and stopped praying or reading: We prayed, fasted, studied the
scriptures individually, as a couple and as a family for years and years. Carson in fact
continued for almost two decades after coming to that conclusion.
Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith: We did! We have examined, put off,
pondered and talked over our doubts for years and years until there was no way around
them. And when is enough? Carson for example has been doubting his doubts for 17
years without the traditional answer.
I bet I can help you work through the problems you have with the church: This one is
especially hurtful to Carson who has put literally thousands of hours into research and
understanding the church in an effort to gain a testimony. People often assume we havent
learned the answers that will help us with the warts in church history or logical fallacies in
the doctrine. We would counter that the people who say that usually dont know very many
of the problems themselves. In an attempt to work through these problems Carson spent
years researching all the answers (called apologetics). Carson was a wiki editor for FAIR
for several years, the leading Mormon apologetics website. He has become so aware of
these issues and the apologetic answers that he hasnt come across a single new problem
in church history for quite some time. In our experience every person that is aware of all
these issues and remains a faithful member does so by changing from a traditionally
believing member to a very different kind of faithful member. They all go through a
paradigm shift to a belief system that allows for significant fallibility in church leadership
and doctrine. In the end, learning more hurt our faith more than helped it.
You studied anti-mormon literature: As well show below, every single thing we have
learned can be found in church approved sources. Some are hard to find (like Joseph
Smith translated the large majority of the Book of Mormon with his folk magic peep stone)
and others are just never actually read about (Adam-God doctrine, details of polygamy, etc.
found in the Journal of Discourses). If you limit yourself to only church approved
publications you can still come to the same conclusions.
You can leave the church, but you can't leave the church alone: This bothers us
greatly because it is a flippant and demeaning conclusion, this article explains why in more
detail. You would have to be a sociopath to be able to immediately extricate it from your
heart and mind. We have been Mormon in every cell in our bodies, which is part of the
reason why a faith transition can be so incredibly difficult: its also an identity crisis. You
can take the person out of Mormonism but you cant take the Mormonism out of the person.
Furthermore, Mormonism tells you that because you have the truth you have the
responsibility to tell everyone you know about it. If you leave, it can be hard to not continue
to live by that mantra. Only your new idea of the truth could be getting people out of the
church that you see as a fraud and a potentially damaging system. I think people need to
be understanding of the difficulty there is in leaving because of the cultish nature of the all-
encompassing religion and the desire to share the truth with those still on the inside. We
dont proselytize back to members because for the most part, if it is working for you, you
are happy and being a good person, we dont want to cause you the pain and difficulty that
you experience when you find out that the church isnt true.
You are just ignoring the little promptings of the spirit and expecting too much of an
answer: In Carsons personal story section he shows how he did use those feelings for the
basis of his testimony but there were two problems with that. 1-According to the churchs
explanation of what the spirit is, Carson should not have felt those feelings at times that he
did. If they are to confirm truth then why did he often feel them equally strong when
reading or watching fiction? If you argue that they were confirming principles of goodness
in the fiction then how can you use those feelings to confirm the authenticity of the Book of
Mormon? 2-We learned the biochemical basis of emotions that answers better why we feel
those feelings at times such as watching a movie about aliens. This matched our
experiences better than the explanation given by the church. Furthermore, Carson never
once felt these feelings after praying for an answer about the truthfulness of the Book of
Mormon or the church. We feel that most peoples spiritual experiences confirm that God
exists and loves them, not that the Church is Gods one true church, but people often
conflate the two. This is also why we believe that when people in other religions have the
same experiences and share the same testimonies often that Mormons do: it proves God
works equally with those people as he does with Mormons. God wants all of us to come
closer to Him through whatever means we are familiar with.
This has been hard for you because you are stepping away from God: For us we feel
closer to God (Carson as an agnostic theist and Marisa as a strong believer in God) and
we see ourselves becoming more Christ-like. What has been hard has been the difficulty
in separating ourselves from something that is intertwined into every aspect of our lives and
by so doing hurting many people we care about. The cult-ure makes it very difficult
emotionally to leave.
There is a Video or Powerpoint presentation about some detailed research on the major
myths why people leave Mormonism. It explains how they are not accurate and for what
reasons people actually do leave.
Three reasons why we want to leave:
Before we get to that, there is a quote from an expert on differing political or religious
views, "We often use reasoning not to find the truth but to invent arguments to support our
deep and intuitive beliefs.
1
" Jonathan Haidt explains that even if someone proves all of our
arguments incorrect, we tend to continue with the base assumption anyway. We
understand that and dont want go through the futile exercise of arguing to change your
way of thinking if you differ from us. We also dont want to start you on the difficult path
weve been on if you are happy in Mormonism. We do though, want to let people
understand our thought processes. For that reason, we will not explain all of reasons we
feel the church isnt true.
1-As weve researched the history from the churchs own sources, it doesnt match with
what we learn in the church, seminary and even institute. With that greater knowledge it
seems pretty obvious to us that this isnt Gods one true church. God may have inspired
various leaders at various times, but no more than he does other great religious traditions.
We want to reiterate that this information was not obtained from anti-mormon,
twisted or made up sources. It can almost entirely be found in sources that are
either from the church (Journal of Discourses, History of the Church, etc.) or primary
sources of the times (journals, court records, etc.). It is all easy to find as well. That

1
http://tinyurl.com/nx7b8m3
is why there are so many people losing their traditional testimonies in the church
right now as Elder Marlin K. Jensen said and is summarized here.
The more we read and became familiar with the actual history of the church we
loved, the more the story we were raised with fell apart. As we learned more and
more a different narrative came to fit the history better. When we pulled back the
curtain the complete story showed too much philosophy of men to truly be from God.
Joseph may have been inspired, but things he did like sending Carsons great,
great, great, great grandfather Orson Pratt on a mission and while Orson was gone
2
,
Joseph tried to marry Orsons wife polygamously. Similarly, Joseph did marry Orson
Hydes wife, Miranda, while he was on a mission. Furthermore, Joseph lied
constantly about his polygamy
3
, to members that werent in his inner circle and even
his wife Emma. He made two of his younger wives that worked in his home lie
about their previous polygamous marriage
4
and act like it never happened so they
could get married to him again, this time in Emmas presence, and make it look like
the first time! There are too many other examples such as this for us to believe that
God initiated polygamy and used Joseph as his servant to bring forth supposed
Eternal Doctrines.
Carson was able to keep a faithful hope in the church despite these problems
knowing that he, as all of us, including church leaders, are imperfect. The problem
is that the Church says that this is Gods one true church and the prophet is His
mouthpiece. Learning the history showed that those prophets were wrong, even
severely wrong several times (for some simple examples see Carsons essays here
and here). The church counters this by saying that they spoke as men when they
said those incorrect things, but that we should still follow the current prophet. I say,
if we cant trust them to be correct or know when they are incorrect then we have to
trust our hearts and what we feel God wants us to do.
Active LDS experts (and by experts I dont mean most CES employees or General
Authorities, but historians and anthropologists) would agree with many of the
conclusions that we make about the specific events. They choose to stay as Carson
did for many years. Sometimes with spiritual experiences that Carson never had,
but often because they like the tradition and feel closer to God when participating.
The negative experiences are outweighing the positives now, at least for the time
being, and for that reason we dont want to be very active until we figure out how we
want to be involved.
The way the truth has been twisted, covered up, whitewashed, rationalized and
straight-up lied about by church leaders since the beginning is disturbing! If it is the
truth, it should have nothing to fear. Dont we believe that the truth shall set you free
(John 8:32)? Trying to cover it up shows a lack of faith if the churchs history is the
work of God. When we offer suggestions on ways to help out the church we are
often told we shouldnt try to steady the ark. We think all the history whitewashing is
a more severe form of steadying the ark.
If you want to know more of this history, read the book published by Deseret Book
and written by the previous Stake President and current Stake Patriarch Richard

2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Marinda_Bates_Pratt#Plural_marriage_proposal_of_Joseph_Smith
3
History of the Church 6:41041
4
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/04-LouisaBeaman.htm
Bushman called Rough Stone Rolling. If you want something much shorter and to
the point, read the much shorter Letter To A CES Director. As a disclaimer, even if
not everything in the CES letter is exactly correct, if some significant percentage
(say 70%) of those things are correct, that is pretty damning.
2-Staying comes with certain problems that we arent sure we can mitigate. Many of these
issues are systemic problems that were damaging to us and will likely be damaging to our
children. A mixture of church doctrines, history, culture and folk doctrines contribute to
these systemic problems:
Gender issues: This is long and complicated. There is a good explanation of this in
Carsons Male Ally essay that will be part of the forthcoming Ordain Women Male
Ally Conversation document. We both feel strongly about this issue. You can hear
Carson discuss it further here in his Feminist Mormon Housewives podcast
interview.
Past history of racism: Although recently changed, the past doctrines (blacks being
less valiant in pre-earth life) still have lingering systemic racist effects that are
greater than the systemic racism that exists in our country. Systemic racism can be
a complex subject and just because you may honestly feel that blacks are not less
than you today, you still may contribute to and propagate systemic racism.
Homophobia: Utah has the highest rate of youth gay suicides in the country. This is
terribly sad when you consider that it mostly comes from the churchs stance on
homosexuality. Yes that has recently changed from You choose to do it to You
may have been born that way but just a couple of years ago Elder Packer said that
God wouldnt make anyone that way. Gay LDS youth obviously dont choose to be
gay because it is an easier and more enjoyable life. We have always felt so sorry
for the heartache the church has caused our gay members.
Exclusiveness and focusing on outward signs of obedience: Mormons tend to see
themselves as so much more righteous and correct than others. Weve seen too
many examples of people choosing to not be loving to people of other faiths
because they dont conform to our ideals of modesty or cultural practices. That
doesnt seem to be following Jesus dictate of what the two great commandments
are. We see people often choosing lesser commandments over the two greatest.
We should choose to be love over unnecessary judgements and exclusions. We
feel like the way that the modern members obsess over hemlines and numbers of
earrings is similar to the Pharisees making rules about how many steps you can
take on Sunday. This focus on obedience over love makes our Mormonism
sometimes taste bitter to us.
Passive aggressive, fake niceness, which extends to inability to set boundaries for
yourself (like you cant say no to a calling or assignment): There has been some
good research done on Mormons being extremely passive aggressive. We see it
as an unfortunate side effect of trying so hard to be nice. Unfortunately that is
compounded by our over infantilized culture that results from us having to obey our
leaders in a parent-child relationship rather than having our own autonomy. We
dont learn the way to set our boundaries in a firm but kind way. Saying no or
disagreeing is often seen as unhealthy and not kind. Women are expected to
sacrifice themselves excessively for the benefit of their children. This burns many
women out on parenting and doesnt allow them to have a sense of self outside of
motherhood. This unhealthy atrophy of existence doesnt allow mothers to be as
powerful and effective as they otherwise could be.
Faith over logic or rational thought, and Anti science: One of our biggest problems
for years was members who knew very little about scientific facts that we had a
great deal of knowledge on would tell us that we were wrong because the church
said so and that God knew better. Over and over again in our and general religious
history, the doctrinal assumptions that make up the God of the Gaps has been
proven wrong. God and science dont have to be mutually exclusive. Isnt the Glory
of God intelligence? Yes, we have to temper our incomplete understanding of things
with what we learn about God, but that should be a two way road. Furthermore,
people deny plain truth because it conflicts with what they think is faith. Faith is not
to believe in something despite all evidence to the contrary, faith is to believe in the
things that we cant have evidences for or against. Faith is what goes beyond what
we can see or know.
Lack of emotional maturity: The church keeps its members in a parent-child
relationship. It discourages you from doing what you feel is right if it ever disagrees
with what the church says you should do. We are given a very prescribed way to
act, think and behave. We even have very rigid gender roles. This inhibits us from
developing our own ability to make decisions by not allowing us to look outside
those prescribed actions. Ironically, wasnt it Satans plan to limit our choices and
not let us choose a path for ourselves? Choosing to do good because you want to,
not because you are supposed to, is one way that many people who leave the
church feel a sense of power and closeness to God that they didnt previously feel.
Our ability to trust ourselves is undermined and we feel comfortable in a church that
makes us feel like we have all the answers. Another example is how you are raised
to believe that because the Brethren are the mouthpiece of God, if you disagree with
them, then you disagree with God. You are not allowed to think that you have a
valid but different opinion on anything that they have spoken on.
Brainwashing: As harsh as this sounds, one powerful example to us is how women
in the church who seem like rational beings can claim that the temple doctrine says
they are equal to men. Women are treated kindly in the church, but not equally.
They do not have equal power in making decisions, especially decisions about
themselves. This may be separate, but it is not equal. Separate and equal would
be women having full autonomy in their separate organizations, instead of being
overseen and overridden by men. It is a natural tendency for people to defend their
tribe. This gets carried to such an extreme that we are encouraged to say irrational
things in defense of the faith.
Perfectionism: Most Mormons, especially women, understand and often feel the
pressure to be perfect and dislike it enough that we dont really need to explain it
further.
Toxic Shaming:
As imperfect beings we are too often made to feel that things dont work out
for us because we didnt quite live righteously enough. This creates an
atmosphere in which we constantly feel inadequate. We tell people that they
could have the miracle of overcoming infertility, overcome their eating
disorder, get your husband to stop skipping dental classes to play video
games, fix a chemical imbalance, etc. if they were more righteous (all things
we have heard people say).
This begins very young. Especially today, Primary used to be more age-
appropriate, with a good balance between reverence and fun. Now children
are expected to be abnormally quiet, attentive and still. There are fewer
activities and fun songs than there used to be. This causes the kids to feel
and be told they are not behaving properly, despite their honest efforts to be
reverent. They are constantly receiving signals that they are less than they
should be. This external shaming becomes internalized and affects how they
see themselves and how they think God sees them - as not good enough.
Religious Fanaticism: You are raised to think it is okay to do things that go against
your core feelings. For example, you feel like you need to be open to the idea that
you could be asked by God one day to kill your only child (Abraham) or kill another
individual (Nephi and Laban). You are asked to give up everything to the Kingdom
of God (AKA the church) even if you dont think it is the best thing to do. You might
have to practice polygamy after the second coming or in the eternities, even though
the concept is abhorrent to all psychonormative human beings. These are extreme
examples, but they are real.
Agency: Even though we promote agency in some of our doctrine (war in heaven,
teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves) the church hyper-
regulates what we can and cant do. Even if you disagree and dont think it is what
God wants you do to, you are pressured into doing it anyway. You therefore are
expected to give up your agency and go with what the institution expects of you.
There are many other smaller ways in which we feel the church can be a negative in
our lives. A final example is how we are kept so busy with callings, meetings, visits
and expectations that we dont have the time or energy to practice pure religion,
undefiled. Instead, we have become very Pharisaical, focusing on the hedge
around the law instead of the law itself. Furthermore, these systemic problems are
manifested in the following ways: Utah has the highest rates of plastic surgeries,
depression medication use and pornography use. Even if we can play down those
results with excuses, should we even have to? Shouldnt Utah, with its high
percentage of Mormons, be the lowest?
3-As weve stepped away little by little over the past year or so, each step has felt good
Our loyalty is not to the church but truth and righteousness. We learned from our
Mormon upbringing to do what is right, let the consequence follow. We also
learned that the truth shall set you free. We are living up to those ideals and as we
do, the increase in integrity has been wonderful. It feels so good to do what we feel
is right, even if others disagree.
Similar to above, living authentically has been amazing. Carson for example has
been not totally open about his doubts for 17 years! Being completely open and not
holding back a part of himself has taken a big burden off his shoulders. There is a
freedom that comes with authenticity that is addicting!
Marisa has seen a big change in herself since she stopped wearing garments. They
made her feel smothered, controlled and confined and reminded her daily of the
sexism in the temple and the fact that she couldnt even choose her own underwear.
She was shocked that after 15 years of faithfully wearing her garments night and
day, she felt more like herself without them. Even if she wears the same modest
clothes as before, she feels free and her debilitating headaches have been
significantly reduced.
Letting go of the Church leaders know best approach that our culture often takes
has enabled us to get answers that we otherwise would not have been able to find.
Reading books by non-LDS authors to help us be better parents, spouses and
people since we now know that the scriptures dont have all the answers and we are
no longer afraid to listen to the wisdom of the world.
Why we stay (Conclusion):
The church is made up of good people doing good things and we want to join with them in
doing good works. We even feel that the church leaders can be inspired, just like great
people in other religions and non-religious organizations. Because our spiritual language is
Mormon and because our way of thinking is Mormon, we want to stay and worship God
how, where and what we may. We will continue to cherish our pioneer heritage and culture
of hard work, service and love.
We want to create that space for Mormons like us. The culture and several statements
from prophets and apostles have set up an All Correct or Greatest Fraud Ever dichotomy.
We reject that and say there should be a space in the middle for Mormons that want to
worship God in a way that differs from the traditional one. There is a lot of precedent for
actually having this space, even though the culture pushes back hard against it. I go into
this in greater detail in this essay The Great Divide.
We want to let others who feel similarly that they are not alone. They dont need to feel
broken; its the system thats broken. The fear from that position is terrible and oppressive.
One of the greatest joys weve felt over the past few years, as weve been more open
about our doubts, has come from helping others realize they are not alone and they are not
bad people despite what the culture says. We will continue to be a voice for those people.
It feels so Christ-like to do that!
There are important benefits to growing up with a sense of belonging to a group. As stated
above, Mormonism can help people be better than they otherwise would. Despite the
problems we also stated, we think we can utilize the good, pitch in and put our shoulder to
the wheel, yet mitigate what we see as the bad. This will allow our children to have a
sense of communal identity.
As weve discussed this with our kids, they thought it made sense because we have taught
them to make rational decisions instead of indoctrinating them with dogma. We feel we are
loving parents helping them be their best.
We don't feel like were falling away or being lost, we feel like were moving on to
something better and finding ourselves, despite the social and emotional costs.