(English) Transcript of Trial - United States of America V Russell Defreitas, Abdul Kadir - 7-6-2010

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
07-CR-543 (DLI)
U.S. Courthouse
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v.
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Brooklyn, New York
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RUSSELL DEFREITAS,
ABDUL KADIR,
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Defendants.
July 6, 2010
9:45 o'clock a.m.
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TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
BEFORE THE HONORABLE DORA L. IRIZARRY
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, and a jury.
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APPEARANCES:
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For the Government:
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LORETTA E. LYNCH
United States Attorney
By: MARSHALL MILLER
BERIT BERGER
ZAINAB AHMAD
JASON JONES
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Assistant U.S. Attorneys
271 Cadman Plaza East
Brooklyn, New York 11201
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For the Defendants:
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FEDERAL DEFENDERS
By: MILDRED WHALEN, ESQ.
LEN KAMDANG, ESQ.
For Russell Defreitas
KAFAHNI NKRUMAH, ESQ.
TONI MESSINA, ESQ.
For Abdul Kadir
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Court Reporter:
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Anthony M. Mancuso
225 Cadman Plaza East
Brooklyn, New York 11201
(718) 613-2419
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript

produced by CAT.
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(Trial resumed.)
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(In open court; jury not present.)
MR. JONES:
Good morning.
Jason Jones, Marshall
Miller, Berit Berger and Zainab Ahmad, and we're joined at
counsel table by Special Agent Robert Adonizio.
THE COURT:
Good morning to all of you.
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For Mr. Defreitas?
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MS. WHALEN:
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THE COURT:
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MR. NKRUMAH:
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Federal
Defenders by Mildred Whalen and Len Kamdang.
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Good morning, your Honor.
For Mr. Kadir?

Good morning.
Kafahni Nkrumah and
Toni Messina for Mr. Kadir.

THE COURT:
I noticed over the weekend there were
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two defense motions that were filed with the Court.
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just received them this morning.
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not had a chance to respond to them.
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later on, after lunch.
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time to respond in writing.
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I've only
I know the government has

We can address them
I don't know if the government wants
One is a motion for an evidentiary hearing pursuant
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to CIPA relating to the October 2006 memo, and the other
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relates to a portion of a tape-recorded conversation that the
25
government initially sought to introduce, but that it decided
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
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2
not to.
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, if I may, on the latter?
That might be moot.
The government has agreed to put that ID
41, Session 1 into evidence in its case in chief in its
entirety, and to moot that issue for defense counsel for
Mr. Defreitas.
THE COURT:
That is ID 41, Session 1.
MR. JONES:
The only difference on that CD,
Ms. Whalen and I talked about it over the weekend.
It won't
10
have Mr. Francis's initials on it, because he didn't listen to
11
the whole CD over the weekend.
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any objection to it coming in.
I don't think there would be
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I believe Ms. Whalen will consent to that.
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MS. WHALEN:
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THE COURT:
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Yes, your Honor.

Okay.
As to the CIPA hearing, does the
government want to respond in writing?

MR. MILLER:
Your Honor, just for purposes of moving
18
things along, I think we would be happy to respond orally, if
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your Honor would approve of that.
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THE COURT:
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Is there any need to address it before 5:00 o'clock,
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Okay.
so that we don't delay the jury at all?
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MR. MILLER:
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MR. KAMDANG:
25
THE COURT:
I don't believe so.

I don't believe so.
That will give me an opportunity to
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
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spend some time thinking about it.

MR. KAMDANG:
When I read CIPA, I believe the
statute takes more of an incremental approach for actual
discovery than to seek admission of the documents.

I spoke to Mr. Miller, and I agree with him that I
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6
think the way this is headed, we would want to seek admission
of the document in some way.
sense to sort of expedite the process and deal with all of
those issues.
So, we both agreed it would make
I didn't address those in the request for the
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11
hearing.
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is prepared to respond, and we would be, as well.
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your Honor's preparation, since we are talking about those
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later steps in Sections 5 and 6 of CIPA, I just wanted to let
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the Court know that.
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I spoke to Mr. Miller this morning.
MR. NKRUMAH:
The government
In terms of
Your Honor, we would like the Court to
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be aware that we have had a chance to review Mr. Defreitas's
18
motion for CIPA, and we would join in orally on that motion.
19
THE COURT:
There was a motion that was filed by the
20
government, in which it was requested that it be filed under
21
seal -- the Court granted it -- filed July 2, requesting that
22
the defense be limited in its cross-examination of Mr. Francis
23
as to a relationship with Muna Nur, who I believe is the
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codefendant Nur's daughter.
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Does the defense wish to be heard on that?
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2702
MR. KAMDANG:
Your Honor, Team Defreitas and Team
Kadir are of a different view.
Mr. Jones, we've also mooted that issue, the proposal that the
government makes in terms of limiting what we could cross
into.
the government's position is reasonable, and I think that we
have resolved it.
I think Ms. Whalen spoke about our intentions.
MR. JONES:
I believe, after speaking with
I think
The way we propose to handle it with
defendant Defreitas is simply to inquire of Mr. Francis
10
whether or not he and Mr. Nero, along with the plot, related
11
disputes, which there will also be testimony about, "personal
12
disputes" is how we've compromised on the issue, with your
13
Honor's approval.
MR. KAMDANG:
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That compromise will allow the
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arguments we want to make with regard to that issue.
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fine.
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THE COURT:
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MS. MESSINA:
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20
That's
What is Kadir's position?

At this point, we agree with the
Defreitas team's position on this.

THE COURT:
That's very good, because that was the
21
ruling that I was going to give.
22
reached that decision without the Court's intervention.
23
There were also additional motions.
24
address these now, because they affect the testimony of
25
Mr. Francis, who continues on the stand today.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
So, I'm glad that you
I want to
2703
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With respect to -- there was a motion in limine by
defense counsel to preclude the government from introducing --
the government is seeking to introduce certain statements that
were made to Mr. Francis by Mr. Rutherford in connection with
a separate plot, a second plot, to bomb the United States and
the British embassies in Guyana.
preclude the government from introducing any such statements.
The government has filed -- I asked for a simultaneous
briefing, and both sides did comply.
Both defense counsel seek to
10
Does the government seek to be heard?
11
Also, the government seeks to introduce the
12
photographs that Mr. Francis took at the behest of
13
Mr. Rutherford in connection with that second plot.
14
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, the government is willing to
15
rest on its papers, other than to note that it does appear,
16
from the defense openings, that they are also going to be
17
seeking to attack what they view as excessive government
18
spending in the matter.
19
suggests that the only thing that Mr. Francis was told to do
20
or suggested to do was simply take down these defendants,
21
which is a framing kind of argument, it's unfair and it's
22
rebutted by his testimony.
23
THE COURT:
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MS. WHALEN:
25
To the extent that that falsely
Ms. Whalen or Mr. Kamdang.

Yes, your Honor.
Your Honor, in the
government's letter of July 2, they proffered that the
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
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1
testimony was not hearsay.
hearsay and that it fell outside of the exception to
coconspirators' statements, because it was not made in
furtherance of this conspiracy.
Our position had been that it was
But I think that the factual surroundings of this
second plot showed that the government's claim that this was
some attempt to vet Steven Francis prior to bringing him into
the plot, I think it's belied by the evidence set forth in the
3500 material.
10
While Talib Rutherford or Neville Rutherford
11
initially brought this up to Mr. Francis when he was first in
12
Guyana, and the pictures were taken when he was first in
13
Guyana, Mr. Rutherford made a reference to it, about receiving
14
the pictures back from Mr. Francis, when Mr. Francis had
15
returned to New York.
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to the individuals who had been in the office, I think it was
17
either -- I think there's two references.
18
Muhammad, one says it was Donald Nero, and Muhammad being
19
Russell Defreitas.
20
that he didn't discuss the photographs with that person.
21
Further noted that he hadn't explained
One says it was
Again, whoever it is, he makes it clear
When Mr. Francis returned to Guyana for a second
22
time, he had further discussions about the plot, and at that
23
point, the plot, known as the beginning -- and at that point,
24
Mr. Rutherford said that he wanted Mr. Francis to raise this
25
issue with the person that they would be meeting in Trinidad
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
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1
to sell the JFK plot to, and he said, But make sure you pull
him aside.
were involved in the JFK plot hearing about it.
He didn't want any of the other individuals who
So, the evidence of this plot goes well beyond any
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vetting procedure, and I think the fact that it did go beyond
any kind of vetting procedure shows that it wasn't a vetting
procedure for Mr. Francis, that it was a completely separate
plot and it is hearsay and should not be admitted.

With respect to the government's concerns that the
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10
defense has argued or will argue that too much money was spent
11
on this plot -- and Mr. Kamdang can correct me, or the
12
government can correct me, if I'm wrong -- my understanding
13
is, we sort of received two notices as to the money that was
14
spent.
15
through the agents involved.
16
a copy of an Excel spread sheet, that shows the name of the
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agent, the month and the year, and the amount of money that
18
was turned over.
One, I think, is 3500 SF 170, which is an accounting

It's just sort of like an Excel,
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We've also received a notice saying that certain
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plane tickets were paid for by the government, and I think
21
that certain monies may have been sent over to Abdel Nur and
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Muna Nur.
23
on that aspect of it.
24
being revised to take out any of the monies that were spent on
25
the beginning or the surveillance of the beginning conspiracy
And since Mr. Nur is not my client, I didn't focus

We would have no objection to SF 170
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
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or the investigation of the beginning conspiracy.

As I said, our monies are just a lump sum.
We don't
know what was spent on what, other than plane tickets, and we
would have no objection to SF 170 being revised to take those
amounts out.
THE COURT:
For defendant Kadir.
MR. NKRUMAH:
Your Honor, we, too, agree with the
position that Team Defreitas holds.
government cannot introduce this evidence on their case in
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We believe that the
chief.
I'm not going to go over the arguments that Team
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12
Defreitas laid out.
We do agree with the vetting-process
13
argument.
14
Mr. Francis or Mr. Kadir.
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and it is not admissible under 801(d)12(E).
16
furtherance of the conspiracy.
17
vet or to induce Mr. Kadir to enter into this alleged
18
conspiracy.
19
disclosed by the government in their 3500 material.
20
Obviously, it was not used by Mr. Francis to induce Mr. Kadir
21
to enter into the conspiracy.
In fact, it was not a vetting process for either

We do believe that this is hearsay,
It was not in
This statement was not used to
The statement was unknown to Mr. Kadir and
I believe the case of United States v. Bertolotti,
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et al.
controls in this matter.
The cite number is 529 F.2d
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149.
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defendant Mr. Bertolotti and a number of other defendants were
In Bertolotti, we have the same situation.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
The
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being charged in a single conspiracy.
The government
attempted to introduce, under its guise of a single-conspiracy
theory, evidence of other conspiracies, conspiracies that the
defendants were not involved in, and the only connection
between the defendants and the conspiracy was the fact that
two of the persons involved in some of the conspiracies that
the government tried to bring in were members of the
conspiracy that the defendants were in.

But the Court there held that, We nevertheless find
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10
clear evidence of prejudice to these two, as well.
11
they may have been, but their guilt did not permit violation
12
of their rights not to be tried en masse for the
13
conglomeration of distinct and separate offenses committed by
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others.
15
Criminal
In other words, we believe that the prejudicial
16
effect severely outweighs the probative valuable of this
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testimony as to Mr. Kadir, in the fact that he was not
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involved in this conspiracy.
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conspiracy.
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prejudice Mr. Kadir severely.
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this evidence that the government attempts to elicit is
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inadmissible in their case in chief.
23
He had no knowledge of this
Introducing this conspiracy does nothing but

And in that case, your Honor,
As to the government's concern about an entrapment
24
defense, I think we have already informed the government that
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we are not seeking an entrapment defense in this matter.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
And
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I believe that the government has ample evidence, and it's
been illustrated in the 3500 material that they have turned
over and evidence that they have that they have decided not to
use in their case in chief, to show this point, and the
introduction of this outside conspiracy, that Mr. Kadir had no
knowledge of or was not aware of until the middle of trial, is
highly prejudicial, and we object to its admission.
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, if I may, just briefly?
THE COURT:
Yes.
10
MR. JONES:
As to Ms. Whalen's point, it's not just
11
about money.
The defense opened on the theory that the
12
government was running wild here, sending planes up in the
13
air, and the reason there were planes in the air, the FBI
14
learned that some of these coconspirators were the real deal
15
and they were plotting extremely serious attacks, and these
16
are the same people that Russell Defreitas searched out to
17
join the plot before this informant was ever involved.

So, it certainly rebuts this argument they are
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19
making.
If they don't want to make that argument anymore,
20
then it's not as relevant.
21
In addition --
22
THE COURT:
Before you move to a different point, if
23
I can just ask you:
In connection with planes going up in the
24
air and helicopters and whatever else might have happened, was
25
that done here in the United States, or was it being done
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
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1
abroad?
it being done in connection with this secondary plot or other
plots that the JTTF or the government might have been made
aware of?
MR. MILLER:
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6
Was this in connection just with the JFK case, or was
Your Honor, I'll answer that, because I
was working on the case at the time.

The issue for the JTTF and for the law enforcement
7
8
response was that these plots were jumbled together.
involved at least one of the same participants.
They
We, the
10
government, was working hard to insure that we knew who knew
11
what and who was involved in which plot, and viewed both plots
12
very seriously, because of the danger that was posed to the
13
embassies abroad and to JFK here in the United States.

And so, when the Defreitas team gets up and says the
14
15
government overreacted -- which they clearly said the
16
government missed this one, they didn't understand what was
17
going on.
18
serious -- and then ties that to particular governmental
19
actions, as we have been led to believe that they intend to do
20
through cross-examination, it suggests to the jury something
21
where, if we can't explain the full law enforcement response,
22
then it suggests something to the jury that's inaccurate.
23
They thought this was serious, and it was not
As Mr. Jones said, if there's not going to be an
24
argument that the government overreacted here, that the
25
government investigation was overblown, then that would be a
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
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1
different story.
But that is exactly what the defense was.
Just this morning, in talking about the CIPA-related issue,
there was discussion about this type of issue; that is,
whether the government's reaction to this threat was
appropriate or not.
And so, some of the monies were spent.
Some of the
planes went up here in the United States.
There were also
actions taken abroad.
responsible thing for the government to do, to address
There were actions taken, as is a
10
threats, where there's obvious and recorded threat streams
11
happening that the government's absolute obligation is to
12
respond to.
At the heart of the government's concern here is, if
13
14
we excise this portion of the threat stream, and yet the
15
defense is allowed to argue that the government is
16
overreacting, overspending, overemphasizing this case, then
17
that's misrepresenting the situation to the jury and allowing
18
them to draw inferences.
19
inferences that Mr. Francis did something wrong, or the
20
government made the wrong decision in prosecuting.
21
inferences are being drawn based on incomplete and inaccurate
22
facts.
23
That's the idea here, right,
The
That's just not fair.

THE COURT:
So my understanding is clear:
24
Mr. Francis was working on this second plot at the same time
25
that he was in Guyana and in Trinidad in connection with the
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
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JFK plot?
MR. JONES:
The exact same time.
It will be the
trip that he's about to testify to, the first trip he took to
Guyana to meet with Mr. Defreitas.

The other portion of that that speaks to what your
5
6
Honor just said is, they are also going to attack Mr. Francis
for basically making a lot of money, being paid as an
informant.
these defendants if indeed part of his time is spent down
It's not fair to argue that that was just to get
10
there trying to make sure that one of the other coconspirators
11
doesn't carry out a related attack.
12
THE COURT:
I've heard enough argument.
13
I have to agree with the defendants that the
14
testimony that is being sought to be elicited is hearsay,
15
because it really is not part of -- it doesn't come under any
16
of the 801 exceptions, because it's not part of the conspiracy
17
that is at issue here, the JFK plot.
18
secondary plot.
19
It is a completely
The fact that one of the alleged coconspirators of
20
the JFK plot appears to be the mastermind of this secondary
21
plot and is engaging or tried to engage the government's
22
confidential informant doesn't automatically bring it into the
23
JFK plot, given the circumstances here, given the fact that
24
Rutherford made it very clear that he did not want any of the
25
other individuals -- every step of the way, he made it clear
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
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1
he didn't want the other individuals to know.
Mr. Francis to show the pictures to any of the coconspirators.
He didn't want him to talk to the others about the plot.
didn't want Mr. Francis, when he went to Trinidad, to speak to
any of the individuals there about the plot.
He didn't want
He
I disagree with the government's position that they
are not being offered for the truth.
government is saying that they are seeking to introduce those
statements to show that Rutherford was a committed terrorist,
10
11
In that regard, the
and that Mr. Defreitas sought him out for that reason.
I have problems with that, because if
12
Mr. Rutherford's statements are not true, then he's really not
13
a committed terrorist, he's just a blow-hard who is just
14
blowing smoke.
15
So, if the government is maintaining that, Well,
16
these statements show that he's a committed terrorist, then to
17
a certain degree, the government is submitting that these
18
statements are true.
19
(Continued on next page.)
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25
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
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THE COURT:
(Continuing)
Nothing that I have seen tends to indicate that
Mr. DeFreitas was aware of these statements or that this was
something that Mr. Rutherford had conveyed to Mr. DeFreitas
before he was pulled into -- before Mr. Rutherford, I should
say, was pulled into the JFK plot.
Right now, I don't see any evidence, nobody has
pointed me to any evidence, that Mr. DeFreitas was aware in
any way, shape or form of this other plot and that that might
10
have been a reason for Mr. DeFreitas to seek out
11
Mr. Rutherford.
12
Also belying the claim that it is not being admitted
13
for the truth is the fact that the government also seeks to
14
introduce the photographs which, in my view, is corroborative
15
evidence of the statements.
16
they're not seeking to introduce it for the truth?
17
Why have the photographs made if
However, there is -- there is legitimacy to the
18
government's concern that the defendants in their openings
19
attacked the credibility of Mr. Francis, in particular defense
20
counsel for Kadir.
21
defense is raising it now or not, but there was some
22
insinuation of an entrapment defense, or at the very minimum,
23
that this was an overzealous attempt by the government to go
24
after these defendants.
25
There was some insinuation, whether the
There was an emphasis on the amount of money that
GR
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2714
1
Mr. Francis was paid for the time that he was -- that was
spent in Guyana on investigating the conspiracy which is at
issue here at the trial.
the defense to lump together whatever payments Mr. Francis may
have been paid or whatever kind of consideration he may have
been given, whether it was in money or consideration for any
state case.
case.
was legitimately, at least in the government's view at the
I don't think that it is fair for
He testified that he was also working off a state
By lumping everything together when it appears that he
10
time, I don't see how anyone can credibly argue that the
11
government should completely disregard a potential threat to
12
not only their own embassy in Guyana, but also to the embassy
13
of another country, given that the person who was advocating
14
it was already involved in the JFK plot.

I think that an accommodation can be reached in that
15
16
regard.
17
specifics of the secondary plot, the beginning, as it was
18
called, but the government on direct may generally ask
19
Mr. Francis whether he worked on any other investigations with
20
the government.
21
the JTTF or he was working with other federal agencies at the
22
time during this same time period, whether it was here in
23
New York or in Guyana, was he going to get consideration in
24
the state case for those investigations.
25
I am not going to allow the government to go into the
I don't know if it was just specifically with
He was going to get consideration I think he
GR
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1
testified to that for the state case?

MR. JONES:
The only consideration in the state
case, my understanding is, expectation of a reduced jail
sentence, which I will be getting into on direct given their
opening.
FBI, the Joint Terrorism Task Force.
But there was not a -- the money was coming from the
THE COURT:
Whether he was going to receive any
money for those investigations, whether any of those
investigations involved alleged terrorist plots, and whether
10
Kadir or DeFreitas were involved or the subject of any of
11
those investigations, clearly, they were not, but just to make
12
it clear that those were separate and apart from the JFK plot.
13
I may reconsider my ruling if on cross-examination
14
the defense opens the door by suggesting that Mr. Francis
15
received either an extraordinary amount of money or all of the
16
money that he received for investigating the JFK plot, for his
17
activities there, then I will reconsider my ruling on
18
application by the government.
19
I would stay away from naming Mr. Rutherford as
20
being involved in that other plot because I do think
21
that -- one of the things that Rule 403 talks to is, it is not
22
just prejudice because of the sensationalism of the plot and
23
the danger of the plot.
24
agree with -- I don't agree 100 percent with what the
25
government says in terms of the prejudice value, that the jury
GR
OCR
I think that -- I don't necessarily
CM
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1
has already heard about the JFK plot and how devastating it
would be.
embassies abroad, which then starts sparking memories of the
bombing of the embassies, I think it was in Kenya and other
incidents, and the fact that it is happening at the same time
I think adds to the prejudicial value.
I think to hear about a second plot involving
Rule 403 also talks about confusion.
I think that
there is some possibility that the jury can then start getting
confused as to whether the one plot is part and parcel of the
10
other plot and given that there is a lot -- at least from what
11
little I have seen of the transcripts themselves, there is a
12
lot of discussion about a lot of other different things.
13
might sort of take the jury in a different direction that they
14
shouldn't be taken into.
15
Any questions or any comments?
16
MR. JONES:
17
Your Honor, two things to make sure I
abide by Your Honor's ruling.

One, Ms. Whalen pointed out some of the tapes refer
18
19
to the concept of the beginning.
20
definition of that.
21
a -- not an objection that says the beginning.
22
going to know what he is talking about.
25
There is no -- there is no
I just raise it so that there is not
MS. WHALEN:
23
24
It
That's fine.
Nobody is
We didn't know what it
was about.
MR. JONES:
GR
The only other thing, Your Honor, if I
OCR
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1
could have just two minutes to instruct the witness and I will
lead him.
stand.
I will lead him.

THE COURT:
4
5
I will probably just do it when he first takes the
If you want two minutes to do it now, I
will give you the two minutes to do it now.
MR. JONES:
I would like to make sure he won't blurt something
Yes.
out.
THE COURT:
Sure.
10
MR. JONES:
He is right here.
THE COURT:
Would your clients like a quick break
11
seconds.
12
13
I just need 60
while we are at it?

MR. KAMDANG:
14
A heads-up on one other issue.
I also
15
filed a (609(b) notice to use a conviction that is older than
16
ten years.
17
indicated, and we wrote in that notice that they are not
18
opposing it, that conviction.
19
being reasonable on that.
20
has to make some findings for it to come in.
21
this point I don't know that we are going to get to it today.
22
I just wanted to raise that for the Court's attention.
23
It's ten years and two months.
MR. JONES:
The government has
We thank the government for
I do read the rule to say the Court

I want -- at
Your Honor, the government believes,
24
just in fairness, that it should come in.
25
for the reasons that counsel states and also there is some
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
Mostly -- partially
CSR
2718
1
Giglio issues there that I think just in fairness they should
be able to get into, given the cooperation.
complicated than the normal case.
4
5
6
It is more
I think for all of those reasons, the government

believes that the defendants should be entitled to go there.
THE COURT:
I am looking at the defense notice of
the motion.
It indicates, just for the record, that the
ten-year anniversary would have been two months ago, in April,
and apparently it involved prior cooperation by Mr. Francis
10
and the case was delayed as well over a year to facilitate the
11
extradition of codefendants in the case.
12
the defense case was delayed over a year to facilitate the
13
extradition of codefendants in the case.
14
This case I mean,
So that means that the evidence would have been
15
admissible had we been able to proceed a year ago on the case.
16
In light of the lack of objection by the government,
17
it seems to me that in the interest of justice, it seems an
18
appropriate request and so I will allow it, cross-examination
19
in that regard.
20
MR. KAMDANG:
21
THE COURT:
22
of minutes?
23
quick break.
Thank you.
All right.
Why don't you take a couple
I think, marshals, the defendants would like a
24
THE MARSHAL:
25
(Recess taken.)
GR
OCR
Yes, Your Honor.
CM
CRR
CSR
2719
1
(The following occurred in the absence of the jury.)
THE COURT:
THE MARSHAL:
MR. JONES:
Bring out the defendants, please.

Yes, Your Honor.
Your Honor, would you like me to have
the witness on the stand?
THE COURT:
Yes, please.
Everyone, please be seated.
(Witness on stand.)
(Jury present.)
10
THE COURT:
11
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.
12
Do the parties agree that all of our jurors are

present and properly seated?
15
MR. JONES:
16
MS. WHALEN:
17
MR. NKRUMAH:
18
THE COURT:
19
I hope everyone
had a safe and enjoyable 4th of July.
13
14
Everyone may be seated.
Yes, Your Honor.

Yes, Your Honor.
Yes, Your Honor.
All right.
This is continued direct by
the government of its witness Steven Francis.
20
Good morning, sir.
21
THE WITNESS:
22
THE COURT:
23
You are still under oath, sir.
24
There is water there for you to use, if you would
25
like.
Good morning.
You are still -- you could be seated.
You can adjust the mike so that you are comfortable.
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
Francis-direct-Jones
1
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
Okay.
S T E V E N
2720
Thank you.
Perfect.
You may inquire, Mr. Jones.

F R A N C I S
called as a witness, having been previously duly
sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

THE COURT:
I remind you, ladies and
gentlemen -- first of all, I want to thank you for your
patience this morning, but given the long weekend, there were
10
just some legal issues that we needed to address before we
11
brought you out here.
12
working on the case in the hopes of making everything run
13
smoothly once we bring you back into the courtroom.
Please trust that we are here.
14
Sorry, Mr. Jones.
15
MR. JONES:
We are
You may inquire.
Thank you, Your Honor.
16
DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES
17
BY MR. JONES:
18
Good morning, Mr. Francis.
19
Good morning.
20
You told us on Thursday when we broke, we heard a tape of
21
Mr. Nero asking you if you wanted to be a martyr, is that
22
correct?
23
Yes.
24
Before we discuss that tape and Mr. Nero, who I believe
25
you said was the same as Dawood on the board, is that right?
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2721
Yes.
We had spoken a little bit about your role more generally
as a confidential informant.
Do you remember discussing that?
4
5
Yes.
Is it fair to say, Mr. Francis, that during the course of
working with the FBI and the Joint Terrorism Task Force, you
worked on a number of other investigations, is that right?
Yes.
10
That's at the same time these -- this investigation was
11
going on?
12
Yes.
13
Is it fair to say that you were working on investigating
14
multiple terrorist investigations both here and abroad?
15
Yes.
16
And that those -- many of those had nothing to do with
17
these defendants, is that right?
18
Yes.
19
You told us last week that you had -- that Mr. DeFreitas
20
went down to Guyana in around August of 2006, is that right?
21
Yes.
22
Did you ever join him in Guyana?
23
Yes.
24
About when did you join him in Guyana?
25
Sometime in September.
GR
OCR
Around the end of August, early
CM
CRR
CSR
2722
September.
That's 2006?
In 2006, yes.
What was the purpose of traveling -- for you traveling
down to Guyana?
for me to understand what was my role referring to the plan.
When you say his acquaintances, you mean, Mr. DeFreitas?
I meant -- I needed to rejoin Mr. DeFreitas there as well
It was to -- for his acquaintances to meet me and as well
10
as Dawood Masood and Long Hair.
11
12
Rutherford?
13
Not at that time, no.
14
While you were down in Guyana on this particular trip,
15
did you record any of your meetings or conversations?
16
No.
17
Why not?
18
We were waiting for clearances because it was overseas
19
situation and as well as they were concerned about my safety
20
and other things as well.
21
22
watched by the FBI or other government -- other government
23
agencies?
24
No, I don't know.
25
Did you report back to your handlers?
Were you aware at the time of an individual named
Do you know while you were in Guyana if you were being
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2723
Yes.
How did you do that?
I had to break from the group at different times when I
was able and then I report them as much as I could to them.
phone, in person?
Would that include -- how would you report back, on the
How would you do that?
7
8
Actually, I had to make a phone call, on the phone, and
again I would look for secluded place where I wouldn't be
10
detected.
A lot of times it was not possible and some
11
situations actually took place by me doing that.
12
How often did you do that?
13
In several occasions, as often as I could.
14
to break out from the group.
15
16
frequently?
17
Louis Napoli, which was my handler at the time.
18
Napoli is N A P O L I, is that correct?
19
That's right.
20
He's a detective with the Joint Terrorism Task Force, is
21
that right?
22
That's correct, yes.
23
Now, who, if anybody, met you at the airport when you
24
landed in Guyana?
25
I always had
Who was the person that you were reporting back to most
Mohammed and Dawood Masood and soon after we met with
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2724
Long Hair.
Again, Mohammed is DeFreitas, is that right?
That's correct.
And Dawood, that's Nero you testified earlier?
Yes.
Where did you go after you landed?
Right after we land -- I landed, I met with -- with
Mohammed and Dawood and we proceed to local mosque that was
in-between the airport and Dawood's house where we -- we got
10
to meet Long Hair and right after I was taken to Sheik
11
Dawood's house.
12
13
during this trip.
14
Yes.
15
Where did DeFreitas stay?
16
He informed me that he was staying at his own house
17
and -- in Georgetown.
18
19
concerns while you were in Guyana.
You mentioned Sheik Dawood's
house where you stayed
You mentioned that you were -- you had some safety
While you were in that country on this trip, were
20
21
you the victim of any crimes?
22
Yes.
23
What kind of crime?
24
As I broke up one occasion to report to my handler, Louie
25
Napoli, I was mugged, actually.
GR
OCR
CM
I was attacked and my phone
CRR
CSR
2725
was taken.
your cellphone?
Yes.
Did anybody help you get the phone?
Yes.
Who was that?
Rutherford and -- first I ran behind the gentleman.
was able to collect the money from him and soon after when I
You were on the phone with the detective and they steal
10
went to the local mosque where we usually meet, I informed
11
Rutherford which he gather a few of the brothers and he told
12
me this cannot be left like that.
13
the phone, which actually that's what the guys took with and
14
we proceed to find the guy, which we never found at the time.
15
16
mugger to get the chip back to your phone?
17
18
well and Rutherford.
19
THE COURT:
20
THE WITNESS:
Who else was with you when you were looking for the
Abdel Nur and other -- brother by the name of Abdullah as
21
Rutherford.
22
B-I-A-L
23
That's correct.
24
We have to get the chip off
Abdullah or Abdel?
Abdel Nur, Abdullah and Bial Talib
T-A-L-I-B, is that right?
25
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2726
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. JONES:
have a couple of people with the same name, Abdullah and
Abdullah?
Yes.
Nur would also go by Abdullah and there was another
Abdullah; is that correct?
That's correct.
10
This is the first time you met Abdul Nur?
11
No, it's not the first time.
12
Can you tell the jury where you met Abdul Nur?
13
The same mosque, the same place of prayer that we would
14
gather, get to pray for Ramadan.
15
prior to the incident.
You mentioned this is one of the situations where they
That's where I met Abdul Nur
16
We did the Koran readings.
I was questioned by him
17
if I was from the states which I mentioned yes.
18
that he had been in the states as well as Canada, other
19
places.
20
told him I was a member of a community in Brooklyn, which he
21
acknowledged, mentioned the Masataqui (ph).
22
what I'm talking about.
23
24
mentioned that he told you at this first meeting he traveled
25
around; is that right?
He told me
We changed ideas when it comes to the dealings. I
He said he knows
Let me stop you there, break it down a little bit.
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
You
2727
That's correct.
You told him a little bit about yourself, you're from
Brooklyn; is that right?
That's correct.
Did he mention any organizations that he had been a part
of?
Yes.
What was some of those organizations?
As soon as I mentioned that, he said I also belong to a
10
community I was a founder of, that's the community of
11
Muslimeen or Jam in Trinidad which is actually under the Mamat
12
of Abu Bakr.
13
14
correct?
15
Yes.
16
Jamaat Al-Muslimeen which is on the list and Jam, is that
17
for short of that organization, Jam?
18
That's correct.
19
What country is that organization based in?
20
In Trinidad.
21
Mr. Nur told you he was a founding member or member of
22
that community; is that right?
23
That's correct.
24
Did he tell you whether or not he knows Abu Bakr?
25
He mentioned yes, he was the founder or the establishment
So the court reporter has this, A-B-U B-A-K-R; is that
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2728
of the little community and, of course, he mentioned it was
very important.
Abu Bakr somebody you heard of before?
leader of Trinidad, but very mildly I've heard of him.
with Mohammed or Russell Defreitas, Nero, Long Hair and
others.
When Abdul Nur told you this, was this a gentleman, was
He's mentioned before in the Masataqua as a prominent
You mentioned that you had gone down there, were to meet
Did you discuss the plot to attack JFK during any of
10
those meetings yes?
11
Did you discusses that once or more than once?
12
More than once.
13
Let's start with Nero.
14
mentioning, did Nero say that anything needed to be done in
15
order to further this plot?
16
Yes, he did.
17
What types of things did he say needed to be done to make
18
it succeed?
19
20
first thing we need to do is increase our prayers and our
21
understanding of Islam.
22
needed to get in touch with a very knowledgeable brother that
23
actually was from overseas and that he was perpetrating as a
24
Guyanese but actually from the Middle East.
25
During the meetings you were just
Well, first when I got to his house, he had mentioned the
The second thing he said was he
Did you subsequently learn who that person was?
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2729
Yes.
Who is that?
Shukrijumah.
What did he say, if anything, Shukrijumah could bring to
this plot?
that by him further explaining the plot to Shukrijumah, he
would get the financial as well as the manpower to carry out
the plot.
He mentioned that Shukrijumah had ties with Al Qaeda and
10
Was there any discussion during these meetings how
11
exactly the group could find somebody like Shukrijumah?
12
Yes.
13
What was discussed in terms of methods to contact him?
14
Well, being the fact he mentioned that he was wanted by
15
the authorities, we couldn't walk into anyplace and find him.
16
He was possibly hiding in the interior of Guyana which is like
17
the Adirondacks here, some difficult area.
18
he was traveling whatsoever, we needed to get to someone that
19
may know where he's at.
20
the phone.
21
22
able to contact somebody like Shukrijumah?
23
Yes.
24
Who was that?
25
Abu Bakr.
Also, if not, if
It was not somebody you could call on
Did anyone during these meetings suggest who might be
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2730
Who raised the issue, who suggested Abu Bakr may be able
to track down Shukrijumah?
has gone to Trinidad.
anyone is in Trinidad, one person that would know Abu Bakr.
We should reach him out in order for us to find him and to set
a meeting up with him.
wisdom of contacting people like Abu Bakr or Shukrijumah in
At some point Dawood, he mentioned he heard Shukrijumah

On that note, Rutherford mentioned if
Did Russell Defreitas have anything to say about the
10
connection with the plot?
11
Yes.
12
What did he have to say?
13
He had mentioned from the beginning of our meetings that
14
he had interest in meeting an Arab to actually conduct this
15
plot, whether it was from Al Qaeda or anyone that was
16
affiliated with any terrorist activities that would actually
17
be able to fund and produce the manpower.
18
trust of the American brothers to actually carry out this plot
19
of this magnitude.
20
21
during the August and September time frame of 2006?
22
No.
23
Do you know why he wasn't there?
24
Yes.
25
What was that?
He was also not in
Was Russell Defreitas there for every single meeting
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2731
He was concerned about some goods that he sent to Guyana
and because he wasn't part of the organization that was a
nonprofit, Nero was having trouble to actually get his name in
the paperwork, he was fighting to get these goods out so he
was trying to get money, trying to get this paperwork.
was busy at that time with these matters.
participant in these meetings?
Yes.
10
Same trip?
11
Yes.
12
When was is the last time you spoke to Donald Nero,
13
Dawood?
14
I believe some time in February, 2007.
15
What about Rutherford?
16
Same, around the same time, yes.
17
Let's talk a little bit about Rutherford.
18
meet him?
19
I met him first in the same place of prayer, New Mosque.
20
Do you know what he did for a living?
21
Yes.
22
What was that?
23
He did mining business as well as real estate business.
24
Do you know where the mining business was, where he did
25
that mining?
So, he
Did there come a time he became a more frequent
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
When did you
2732
Yes.
Where?
In the interior.
The interior, what you were saying the woodsy middle part
of the country?
That's correct.
THE COURT:
We're talking about Guyana?
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
When you first met Rutherford, what did you discuss?
10
When I first met him, he also approached me, asked me if
11
I was from the states, the United States.
12
seen me practice some marshal arts in the backyard of the
13
mosque.
14
you keep yourself fit which is good.
15
get a gut when they come from the states and stuff."
16
said thank you.
17
to invite you to my office some time if you have any time left
18
in Guyana," which I did.
19
20
during these conversations?
21
22
family was in the states and he had mentioned he had traveled
23
somewhat to different places like Trinidad, other places as
24
well.
25
He became delighted by it.
I said yes.
He had
He said "You seem like

Usually people kind of
Then I
He said "I like that type of stuff and I like
Did Rutherford mention any foreign countries to you
He had mentioned his kids, his family or some of his
You mentioned Rutherford's office.
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
Where was that?
CSR
2733
The center of Guyana, Georgetown.
Did Rutherford join the plot?
Yes.
What was that conversation?
conversation when he was brought into the plot?
Dawood Masood.
office.
not know Rutherford.
Can you describe that
Soon after he invited me to the office, I spoke to a

I said that Rutherford had invited me to the
It was a good idea for me to go there because I did

He said yes, it would be a good idea.
10
It is known that Rutherford was involved with other brothers
11
in a local movement.
12
13
was involved in some local movement?
14
Yes.
15
Yes, it's a good idea, we should talk to him about this
16
idea to attack the airport?
17
Yes.
18
How did Rutherford respond when he heard about this plan?
19
He got up very happy, said (Arabic) "All praises to
20
Alah."
21
22
Defreitas after that?
23
Yes.
24
Tell us what types of things you discussed at those
25
meetings.
It would be wise for us to go.
Let me back up again.
Dawood told you that Rutherford
Did you have any meetings with Rutherford, Nero and
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
We further discussed the plot.
2734
Actually Mr. Defreitas
mentioned his knowledge of JFK by the time of working there.
He also mentioned that he has a way of eluding the security
which he actually pulled out a picture that he has taken from
cargo plane at the earlier stages of his working there and
they were happy to hear that.
You said Russell Defreitas pulled out a photograph at these
meetings about the plot?
Let me stop for a second so we can break it down again.
10
Yes.
11
What was it a photograph of?
12
A picture of a plane, an unusual plane, like used for
13
cargo, where the front of the plane was actually open.
14
could see like a hole, like a whole space of the plane where
15
they put goods and other things inside.
16
17
photograph, instant photograph?
18
No, it was from a Polaroid camera.
19
What did he tell the group about the significance of that
20
airplane?
21
22
that he was taking warfare material, tanks, Apaches, missiles
23
to places like Jerusalem, other places where Muslims were
24
being attacked by others.
25
You
Was this a photograph like a large photograph or small

What kind of photograph?
Because that same airplane was the plane he had mentioned
Did he say how he felt about that situation?
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2735
He was very angry, adamant about it, yes.
You were telling us a little bit about the substance of
your conversations during the meetings in which Defreitas,
Nero and Rutherford were present?
Yes.
Was Long Hair present for some of those meetings as well?
Yes.
What about Abdul Nur?
As well, yes.
10
Exactly --
11
Maybe one time he was present --
12
time of my incident on the phone and I have seen him at some
13
point, yes, in the office.
14
15
September, October of 20006?
16
17
processing plant and the cargo area as well as the hangars.
18
19
suggesting those targets?
20
Mohammed.
21
Russell Defreitas?
22
Yes.
23
Did anybody discuss during these meetings how to actually
24
blow up tanks?
25
well, I met him at the
What exactly was the target of the plot during August,
The main target of the plot was the tower, the tanks, the
Who described those targets to the group?
Yes.
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
Who was
2736
What was the discussion about that?
Well, the conversations was to how the plot was to be
carried out, if they were going to use any high tech stuff
which actually Mohammed was interested in high tech things.
On that note, Rutherford, he mentioned dynamite could be a
good choice and Nero jumped in and said "I don't think
dynamite would do anything because those tanks look like
they're built of titanium.
to kind of like burn them out or something." On that,
You may need some sort of chemical
10
Rutherford said "I'm not talking about regular T N T dynamite.
11
I'm talking before gel dynamite which is used in the interior
12
to make big craters on mining that is built of very hard
13
material."
14
15
procuring this special mining dynamite?
16
Yes.
17
Was there any discussion about using chemicals to
18
penetrate the walls of the tank?
19
Yes.
20
Who discussed that?
21
Again, Nero was concerned that the tanks were built of a
22
very hard material and looking into chemicals that would go
23
through even titanium as well, as it was easier to carry it
24
out because in his mind, it's possible these liquids were
25
clear and would look like carry-on water, whatever.
Did Rutherford say whether or not he could assist in
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2737
Did there come a time during your meetings that someone
discussed a pipeline running under the airport?
That's correct.
Who discussed that?
Mohammed.
What did he say about this pipeline?
connect?
be a devastating explosion behind the pipelines as well.
What did it
Where did it go?
He mentioned the pipe lines would carry gas which would
10
Did those pipelines according to Mohammed, did they run
11
only under the airport or go out into Queens?
12
He mentioned they would go to Queens, yes.
13
Did the plot to attack JFK Airport have a nickname at
14
this point in August, September and October 2006?
15
Yes.
16
What was the nickname?
17
It was chosen by Rutherford to call it the Shining Light.
18
The Shining Light?
19
Yes.
20
What was the meaning behind that?
21
to?
22
23
even it could be watched from the west and from the east, from
24
every corner of the world.
25
What did that refer
Meaning the explosion would be so devastatingly high that
Why did there need to be a nickname?
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2738
So we won't be detected by the local police or FBI and
other agencies that actually may be listening.
conversations using the code words?
That's correct.
Was there any discussion during these meetings I'm
talking about regarding the economic consequence of such an
attack?
Yes.
10
What discussions were there?
11
Mohammed mentioned to Rutherford as well as, he said if
12
these explosions were to go off and the whole of Kennedy would
13
be gone.
14
15
for this attack, in other words dates where maybe the bombing
16
might actually occur?
17
That's correct.
18
Who suggested a particular date?
19
It was mentioned through the early stages, again, when
20
Mohammed was mentioning the different knowledge that he has of
21
the JFK Airport.
22
less secure or the security-minded people would be attending
23
other things.
24
So, Sheik Rutherford said it would be a wise idea to do the
25
attack Christmas Eve.
Would you refer to the plot on future telephone
This would cripple America for the rest of time.
Were there any discussions about possible target dates
He also mentioned what times the airport is
He mentioned when it was cold, Christmastime.
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2739
Was there any discussion what the next steps needed to be
in order to advance the plot?
Yes.
What needed to be done and who suggested it?
Since they have the understanding that Shukrijumah was in
Trinidad, Rutherford said he would choose someone to travel to
Trinidad and speak to Abu Bakr, do the findings of
Shukrijumah, was available in Trinidad and as well if he could
set up a meeting to go there.
Also, it was mentioned they
10
needed a little more than just the ideas of the plot.
11
needed some video taking as well as some picture taking of the
12
area, of the airport, JFK Airport.
13
14
needed to go to Trinidad to find Shukrijumah, is that right?
15
Yes.
16
Was there a suggestion about who that person should be to
17
go to Trinidad to try to find out information about where
18
Shukrijumah was?
19
Yes.
20
Who was suggested would be that person?
21
Rutherford had mentioned he knew of a brother by the name
22
of Abdullah at the time which is Abdul Nur, he would be
23
traveling to Trinidad and meeting Abu Bakr in regards to
24
Shukrijumah.
25
Let's separate that out for a second.
They
You said someone
When you say meeting Abu Bakr in regards to Shukrijumah,
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2740
that's what you referred to, told us about earlier about maybe
Abu Bakr could help you find Shukrijumah?
Yes.
Was there an indication Abu Bakr might be interested
himself?
ties with Libya and also other organizations that actually may
have some interest in the plot as well.
Yes, he also mentioned Abu Bakr had been known to have
You also testified a little bit before, the need to take
10
photographs, surveillance of the airport; is that right?
11
Yes.
12
What was the expectation?
13
see?
14
15
Mohammed was mentioning as well as locations, sizes of these
16
landmarks that were to be attacked.
17
18
what the tanks looked like; is that the idea?
19
Yes.
20
And other parts of the airport?
21
Yes.
22
Obviously, you're sitting here so at some point you came
23
back to New York; is that right?
24
Yes.
25
When was that?
What did the group need to
They want to see what actually are the landmarks that
The goal was to basically bring something back to show
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2741
The end of October, October 2006.
Was it your idea, by the way, to come up and take
photographs and the video?
No.
Who in the group thought it would be a good idea to do
that?
Talib Bilal Rutherford.
Did anybody else think it was a good idea?
Also Dawood Masood, as far as Defreitas mentioned they
10
were all in agreement it would be a wise thing to actually
11
take this footage.
12
13
that in?
14
October, 2006, at the end of October, maybe October 28th.
15
Were you with Russell Defreitas?
16
No.
17
Do you know where he was at the time you left Guyana?
18
Yes.
19
What country was he in?
20
In Guyana.
21
He stayed there?
22
Yes.
23
Did he eventually return?
24
Yes.
25
While you were in New York and Russell Defreitas was in
Sorry.
When you came back to New York, what month was
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2742
Guyana, did you have any discussions about the plot during
that time period?
Yes.
Who did you talk to?
I spoke to Dawood Masood, spoke to Talib Bilal Rutherford
and Defreitas as well.
I'll show you what's marked as Government Exhibit 202?

THE COURT:
8
9
Did you have these discussions by
phone?
THE WITNESS:
10
Yes, I did.
Showing you Exhibit 202, can you turn to 202-T in your
11
12
book?
13
Yes.
14
What is that?
15
That's a recording between myself and Shiek Talib Bilal
16
Rutherford.
17
Do you recall what date that conversation was?
18
Yes, it was on November 17th, 2006.
19
Do you recognize your initials on the CD?
20
Yes.
21
Have you listened to that CD before?
22
Yes.
23
Does that CD represent a fair and accurate recording of
24
the conversation you just testified about?
25
Do you recognize the C D I handed you?
Yes.
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2743
MR. JONES:
Move into evidence Exhibit 2002.
THE COURT:
Any objection?
MS. WHALEN:
THE COURT:
(So marked.)
MR. JONES:
No, your Honor.

Admitted as Government Exhibit 202.
Your Honor, at this point I would like
to hand out headphones, ask the jury to look at their binders.
THE COURT:
Your binders should be under your seat.
MR. JONES:
While we're getting set up, I don't
10
believe the headphones are necessary for most people, but if
11
some of the jurors want to use them they can.
12
cleaned and there are wipes here.
They were
If you want to use them, jurors, the number wheel on
13
14
the side should be around 3 or 4.
15
for the level of the volume.
16
substitute them.
THE COURT:
17
You could move that around
If they don't work, we'll
I remind you, ladies and gentlemen,
18
that it is the audio recording that is the actual evidence.
19
The transcript has been prepared as an aid to help you follow
20
along.
21
is different that's on the transcript, it is what you believe
22
that you hear on the recording that controls.
23
24
25
If for some reason you think you hear something that
MR. JONES:
May I just have the deputy clerk switch
to the recording setting?

THE COURT:
SS
Yes.
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
Turn to 202 T.
2744
but to remind us, you reviewed the transcripts?
Right.
Is it fair to say the recordings are longer than what's
in the transcript, sometimes it's the whole transcript, the
whole audio wasn't transcribed?
Yes.
Is it fair to say that some of the audio contains all
sorts of stuff, including shuffling around, walking, things
Again, Mr. Francis, you told us Thursday
10
that aren't transcribed and other discussions; is that right?
11
Yes.
12
I'll start at the top of page two at two minutes and
13
54 seconds. Who is speaking?
14
Talib Rutherford.
15
Is it difficult to understand the accent and the
16
connections you have here?
17
Yes.
18
He mentioned Mohammed and Dawood.
19
Mohammed which is Russell Defreitas and Dawood Shiek
20
Masood.
Who is that?
(Tape plays.)
21
22
You mentioned Trinidad, taking a trip to Trinidad?
23
Yes.
24
What was the purpose traveling to Trinidad?
25
To meet Abu Bakr, to present the Shining Light to him.
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2745
When Rutherford says yes, to meet with the brothers who
have a connection, he won't tell you the name of the person,
right?
Yes.
But he described the person, one of the people going to
Trinidad who has a connection as being the one who broke bread
in the back of a vehicle and on line nine, who helped you in
the snatcher thing.
he referring to?
What is all that talking about?
Who is
10
He was describing Abdul Nur, he was the one, one of the
11
ones that jumped into the truck to search for the guy that has
12
taken the phone the day I speak to the agent.
13
14
running to catch the guy with the cell phone?
15
That's correct.
16
But he won't use the man's name on the phone; is that
17
right?
18
There is the whole thing you talked about earlier with
Yes.
(Tape plays.)
19
20
The portion that we listened to, there is a discussion
21
about traveling to Trinidad but Rutherford says you seem --
22
you seem confused during the phone call; is that correct?
23
That's correct.
24
You ask him am I going to Trinidad, correct?
25
That's correct.
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2746
What did you believe was happening at this moment?
Well, at this point I was making sure that I understood
him first and, second of all, because different ideas have
come arised at the time, whether they were going to send the
scout and Mohammed and also myself or if we were going to come
back and gather more information like videos, photos and
blueprints or anything we could get our hands on to present
the actual plot to the possible investors at the time.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
Francis - direct - Jones
2747
BY MR. JONES:
and you testified that Defreitas and the others were still in.
During the time in which you were in the United States
Guyana --
4
5
Yes.
Yes.
Showing you what's been marked as Government's Exhibit
203.
-- did you also have conversations with Nero?
Do you recognize this?
10
Yes, I do.
11
Can you flip to 203-T in your transcript?
12
Yes.
13
Do you recall who this is a discussion with?
14
Yes.
15
Is it a recording on the phone or in person?
16
It's a recording on the phone.
17
And what is the approximate date of the conversation?
18
It's on December 4, 2006.
19
Is it a fair and accurate representation of the
20
conversation you had on that date?
21
Yes.
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, I move Government's Exhibit
24
THE COURT:
Any objection?
25
MS. WHALEN:
22
23
203.
No, your Honor.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

1
MR. NKRUMAH:
THE COURT:
2748
No, your Honor.

It's admitted as Government's Exhibit
Number 203.
(So marked.)
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, just pursuant to our
discussions earlier with counsel, just for the record, 202 was
ID 23, Session 1.
for your records.
And this is 203, which is ID 25, Session 8,
THE COURT:
Can you repeat that again?
10
MR. JONES:
202 track number is ID 23, Session 1.
11
203 is ID 25, Session 8, which is reflected on the cover page.
12
THE COURT:
Thank you.
13
Again, I'm not going to repeat this.
Just to remind
14
you, it's the recording that is in evidence, and the
15
transcript is just an aid to help you follow along.

MR. JONES:
16
17
Your Honor, I request permission to play
a portion of Exhibit 203.
18
THE COURT:
Granted.
19
(Tape plays.)
20
(Tape stops.)
21
BY MR. JONES:
22
23
transcript, that's the intro you put on these tapes; is that
24
right?
25
What you just heard, Mr. Francis, that's on the
Yes.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

1
Who told you to do that?
The FBI.
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
2749
When Mr. Nero is telling you, The brother who knows the
brother in Trinidad, who is he referring to?
Abdel Nur.
Can you remind us again why Abdel Nur knows a brother in
Trinidad?
How did he know somebody in Trinidad?
10
Again, he was the founder of JAM or the community that
11
Abu Bakr runs in Trinidad.
12
(Tape plays.)
13
(Tape stops.)
14
When referring to pictures of the Glass on page 3, lines
15
26 and 27, pictures of the Glass, what does that refer to?
16
17
landmark of JFK Airport and the action of taking the pictures
18
of the glass, because when the sun hits the glass, it shines.
19
So, he said that as we take the pictures of the Glass, it
20
becomes the same or the beginning of the shining light.
21
22
about on the phone?
23
That's correct.
24
The trips, the travel to Trinidad that is discussed in
25
the two tapes that we just listened to, do you know if Abdel
The Glass was a name chosen by Rutherford to describe the
Again, this was in order to conceal what you were talking
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2750
Nur traveled to Trinidad in December?
Not to my knowledge.
And did you ever see Russell Defreitas back in the United
States again?
Yes.
Approximately when did he come back to the United States?
In January 2007.
Do you know who paid for his travel?
Yes.
10
Who paid for his travel?
11
Talib Rutherford.
12
Rutherford?
13
Yes.
14
To your knowledge, did the United States Government pay
15
for that travel?
16
No.
17
Who, in your view, at the time was in charge of the plot?
18
Can you repeat the question, please?
19
Who was directing the plot at this point?
20
Talib Rutherford.
21
Who had the information needed at JFK Airport?
22
Muhammad.
23
And what was your role supposed to be in January, when
24
Mr. Defreitas got back into the country?
25
I was supposed to learn the lingo of the airport,
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2751
understand the routes of escape, understand also the
configuration, where every -- where the tanks were located,
where the tower was located, and the processing plant, and
also to drive him around to get the pictures or the video of
the JFK Airport.
So, you drove Russell Defreitas around; correct?
Yes.
Did you just surveil the airport, or did you take him to
other places in town?
10
I did take him to other places, as well, yes.
11
Was it your car?
12
Yes.
13
Whose idea was it to drive around the airport, and where
14
you would go?
15
idea?
16
It was Muhammad's idea.
17
Do you know where Defreitas, Muhammad, stayed while he
18
was in New York?
19
Yes.
20
Where was that?
21
In an apartment.
22
Who arranged for that apartment?
23
The FBI did.
24
You testified earlier that at this point, Russell
25
Defreitas's home was in Guyana; is that correct?
Was it your idea, or was it Mr. Defreitas's
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

1
Not in Guyana.
Where?
In the United States.
Right, after he moved back?
2752
In the fall, when you met him, you said he stayed
5
6
where.
He was staying with a family member.
In Guyana?
No.
When I met him in the beginning stages, June, July,
10
he was staying with a family member in the States.
He
11
proceeded to Guyana, where he stayed in his own house.
12
his return to the States, he asked me that he didn't want to
13
go back to his family member in the States, if I was able to
14
locate him a place to stay, whether with a brother or
15
somewhere that was not expensive for him to stay.
16
17
help him find somewhere?
18
That's correct.
19
Who picked Mr. Defreitas up at the airport, if you know?
20
I did.
21
Which airport?
22
The John F. Kennedy.
23
During January 2007, do you know whether any of your
24
conversations were being recorded?
25
And on
He didn't want to stay with his family, he wanted you to
Yes.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

1
Were your phone calls being recorded?
Yes.
What about things inside your truck?
Yes.
Audio or video; both?
Both.
THE COURT:
With respect to the apartment you said that was
9
10
I'm sorry to interrupt you.
provided by the FBI, did Mr. Defreitas know it was provided by

the FBI?
THE WITNESS:
11
12
2753
Not at the moment that he received it,
no.
THE COURT:
13
I'm sorry.
14
BY MR. JONES:
15
16
FBI informant?
17
No, he didn't.
18
Or that you were recording many of the conversations you
19
were having with him?
20
Of course not.
21
Did you eventually travel to the airport area, JFK
22
Airport --
23
24
25
Is it fair to say he also didn't know that you were an
Yes.
-- after picking him up?
Yes.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2754
And did you conduct surveillance of the airport?
Yes.
Who would drive when you would do the surveillance trips?
I did.
How many times, approximately, did you drive to the
airport to conduct surveillance?
Several times.
And if you can just tell us, generally, what were some of
the types of areas that you drove around at the airport?
10
Yes.
When I drove around, I drove to areas that I never
11
seen before or passed by before, and he mentioned to me that
12
just to follow his instructions and to go through the driving
13
around, careful, pay attention to what I was doing, and if we
14
were ever approached driving through these places, we would
15
say we were lost or the vehicle broke down, and this would
16
kind of buy us a way out of any jam.
17
Did you know the area of JFK particularly well?
18
Only to travel to the terminals.
19
The areas that you drove Mr. Defreitas to, had you been
20
to all those areas before?
21
No.
22
Did you know anything at the time about the fuel tanks or
23
the pipelines other than what Mr. Defreitas had told you?
24
No.
25
You mentioned concerning about getting caught and that
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

1
2755
you would act like you were lost?

Did Mr. Defreitas tell you whether he had any
2
3
experience with security at JFK.
Yes.
What experience did he have?
He mentioned that through his learnings throughout the
years that he was working there, he would try certain things
just to see the response of the authorities, and at some time,
at some point, they knocked down some barrels from the top of
10
a truck or so just to see how fast they'll get a response, and
11
which it did.
So, he more or less had developed an idea of,
12
13
actually, Just say that you are lost, in case you get caught
14
driving around these areas, or you turn on your hazard lights
15
and you say, Hey, my vehicle broke down, and you open the
16
hood.
17
you out of there.
18
19
about the quality of the security at JFK?
20
Yes.
21
What were his views on that?
22
He said they were careless and that they depend upon the
23
tower, and he finds that they should have people that are
24
heavily armed, like other countries.
25
are not only careless, but in locations where it's very cold
They have no choice but to call you a tow truck and get
Did Mr. Defreitas tell you whether he had any opinions
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
He said that, also, they
2756
or at nighttime, they are just lazy, and they would -- some of
them would take a rest, and some of them would not even
respond if anything happened.
204 for identification, and can you flip to 204-T T?
Do you recognize what's on 204.
Showing you what has been marked as Government's Exhibit
Yes, I do.
What's on that CD?
It's the audio or video presentation of what we actually
10
did at the time.
11
Who is the conversation with on the CD?
12
Muhammad.
13
What's the date?
14
That is January 2, 2007.
15
Is it a fair and accurate depiction of that recording?
16
Yes.
17
MR. JONES:
I would offer 204, your Honor.
18
THE COURT:
Any objection?
19
MS. WHALEN:
20
MR. NKRUMAH:
21
THE COURT:
22
No, your Honor.

It's in evidence as Government's Exhibit
204.
23
(So marked.)
24
MR. JONES:
25
No, your Honor.
Your Honor, that corresponds to ID 92,
Session 3.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2757
Permission to pay 204, your Honor?
THE COURT:
Granted.
MR. JONES:
We're going to pick this up at page 2,
the top, Mr. Francis at fifty-two minutes and twenty-nine
seconds.
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
BY MR. JONES:
Mr. Francis, this is a little hard to hear; right?
10
Yes.
11
Let me see if we can deal with it.

MR. JONES:
12
Maybe we can turn up the court speakers.
13
This may be one where the headphones are going to increase the
14
audio.
15
(Tape plays.)
16
(Tape stops.)
17
MR. JONES:
18
Your Honor, I think a couple of jurors
might be having difficulty with the headphones.
19
THE COURT:
Sure.
20
MR. JONES:
The wheel for this one should be cranked
21
up to the highest number in the little box.

THE COURT:
22
23
24
25
witness?
Did you want to give one to your
I don't know if you have one to spare.

MR. JONES:
And the switch on the side, the little
switch, should be on the two dashes.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

THE COURT:
1
2
Let us know if you need some assistance
by a show of hands.
MR. JONES:
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
MR. JONES:
2758
We'll start back at the top of the page.
Your Honor, this is a good stopping
point, if you would want to take a break.
THE COURT:
Do you want to take a break, everybody?
So, we'll take a brief break for the morning, maybe
10
ten, fifteen minutes or so.
Remember not to form any
11
opinions.
12
assume that we're following the same cell phone procedure, and
13
they are all in the jury room with you.
14
can't use them during this break.
15
lunch period, if you need to contact work or family.
Don't draw any conclusions about the case.
So, remember that you
You can use them during the
You may not read or look at or listen to anything
16
17
that might be connected with this case, whether through a cell
18
phone or any other kind of media.
19
about the case among yourselves or with anyone else.
Remember, you can't talk
20
So, we should be with you shortly.
21
If you want to just leave everything on your seats,
22
maybe that will be the best way.
23
down.
Just be careful stepping
24
(Jury excused.)
25
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2759
THE COURT:
We will take a break for about ten
minutes or so.
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, is it --
THE COURT:
I'm sorry?
MR. JONES:
Yes, Your Honor.
You can also take a break as well.
I was asking if it's all right if the
witness took a break.
10
THE COURT:
11
We will just need you in another ten minutes.
12
(Recess taken.)
13
THE COURT:
14
(Jury present.)
15
THE COURT:
16
17
Do all of the parties agree that all of our jurors
18
Absolutely.
All right.
Seat the jury, please.
are present and properly seated?
19
The government?
20
MR. JONES:
Yes, Your Honor.
21
THE COURT:
The defense?
22
MS. WHALEN:
23
MR. NKRUMAH:
24
THE COURT:
25
Yes, Your Honor.

Yes, Your Honor.
Okay.
This is, again, continued direct
of Mr. Steven Francis.
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2760
Sir, I remind you that you are still under oath.
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
You may continue, Mr. Jones.
MR. JONES:
Yes.
EXAMINATION CONTINUES.
BY MR. JONES:
some noises and shuffling.
Mr. Francis, the tape we just listened to, there were
Where was this microphone, generally?
10
Was it in a cellphone or a body wire?
11
It was body wire.
12
The movements and the noise you hear are you actually
13
moving around, is that right?
14
That's correct.
15
I want to ask you a couple of questions about the
16
recording we just listened to.
17
transcript, Mr. Francis, at 204 T.
If you can turn back to your
I will ask you to look at page three, starting
18
19
around line six, seven, that general area, at the top of the
20
page.
Mr. DeFreitas says on that recording, talks about
21
22
the helicopters and military equipment going on to airplanes
23
and says, I asked for a transfer.
24
transfer.
25
bastards.
They wouldn't give me a
So I always wanted to do something against those
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2761
Did you have discussions with Mr. DeFreitas about
1
2
what -- where he was transferred or what transfer was denied
to him to make him upset?
Yes.
He mentioned that he wanted -- he wouldn't want to
5
6
deal anymore with the company that he was working or that
particular location, and he referred to them as to please
transfer him to another location that actually would not have
to help him load this type of equipment to harm Muslims
10
overseas.
11
12
the large paragraph in the middle of that same page, page
13
three, and you heard it on the tape, where he -- DeFreitas
14
discusses being concerned that he wants something good to
15
happen for the brothers.
If you go down a little further, there is discussion on
What's your understanding of what the word
16
17
"brothers" means in this context?
18
19
be taken care of because of the agony and the persecution that
20
they will suffer after the plot took place or in any case
21
there was any -- anyone caught behind trying to do the plot.
22
23
sisters of the massacre.
He meant by this whoever is involved in the plot to
He says, the -- talking about the brothers and the
What does that refer to?
24
25
Yes.
It refers to the -- the actual plot which is blowing up
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2762
the -- the John F. Kennedy Airport.
concern?
His immediate family.
He also mentions, number one -- this is at line 30 and 34
of the same page.
hero is a cousin, a brother, the family run for life.
And if someone from the plot were to die, what was his
He said, number one, when a hero, when the
What does the hero reference refer to?
8
9
Who needed to be taken care of?
He's referring to the one who has been martyr in the name
10
of Allah.
11
Is it considered heroic to die in this cause?
12
Yes.
13
The next page, at the bottom, page four, around line 39.
14
Mr. DeFreitas says, you go get your video camera and we are in
15
there.
There is a discussion about days of the weeks,
16
17
Friday and Saturday.

What was that all about?
18
19
Yes.
He was deciding which day was best for us to go in
20
and take some footage of where the tanks and the other
21
landmarks that he was interested in.
22
Did you have a video camera yet?
23
No.
24
Was it your idea to take video of the airport?
25
No.
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2763
Whose idea was it?
It was Sheik Talib Rutherford as well as Nero, which is
Sheik Masood and also DeFreitas, Sheik Mohammed.
Were you in any particular hurry to get to the airport?
No.
Was DeFreitas?
Yes.
Showing you what's been marked as Government Exhibit 205,
205 T in your transcript book.

Do you recognize Exhibit 205?
10
11
Yes, I do.
12
What is that?
13
That's a video or audio of -- that I recorded with
14
DeFreitas.
15
16
and audio recordings in your truck?
17
Yes.
18
Who was the conversation with, again?
19
Sheik Mohammed.
20
About what date was that?
21
January 3, 2007.
22
Is this recording on the CD a fair and accurate
23
representation of that conversation?
24
25
Is this the time period in which there was a video camera
That's correct.
MR. JONES:
GR
Your Honor, I move into evidence
OCR
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1
2764
Exhibit 205.
THE COURT:
Any objection?
MS. WHALEN:
No objection.
MR. NKRUMAH:
THE COURT:
No, Your Honor.

It is in evidence as Government's
Exhibit number 205.
(Marked.)
MR. JONES:
Permission to play a portion of this?
THE COURT:
10
Yes.
11
You are going to see on your screen, Mr. Francis, some
12
video here from that exhibit.
13
beginning.
I will start from the
What's on your screen, do you recognize where that
14
15
is?
16
Yes.
MR. JONES:
17
Your Honor, with Your Honor's
18
permission, I think it would be helpful for the jury to pull
19
their screens up.
20
THE COURT:
21
Make sure that it is turned on, that you press the
22
Yes.
button and turn it on.

MR. JONES:
23
24
I'm sorry, Mr. Francis.
25
the screen here is what?
GR
OCR
You said what we are seeing on
CM
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CSR
2765
That is what it was in my truck at the time, yes.
Who is on the left there on the screen?
Sheik Mohammed.
Who is on the -- you can't see who is driving but who was
driving?
I am driving.
You have reviewed this recording as well?
That is correct.
I ask you to turn to page two of that transcript.
Again,
10
that's 205, which corresponds, for the record, to 1D-30,
11
session eight.
12
15 seconds.
We are picking up at 13 minutes and around
MR. JONES:
13
Just, Your Honor, the -- the jury -- we
14
replaced some of the headphones that weren't working.
To the
15
extent anyone wants to use them again it's not required but we
16
also turned some of them off just to conserve the battery.
17
(Tape plays; tape stops.)
18
We will skip ahead to 29 minutes and 20 seconds.
19
There is a lot of driving around in this, right,
20
Mr. Francis?
21
That is correct.
22
(Tape plays.)
23
24
25
GR
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CSR
1
CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. JONES:
2766
(Tape plays.)
3
4
Mentioned got to use the back to go in.
Did you go to a
back entrance?
Yes.
Why couldn't you go in the front entrance?
It was restricted from the front.

(Tape plays.)
9
10
Line 22, Mr. Defreitas says here, here are the next tanks
11
here.
12
13
actually were more inland or closer to us.
14
tanks we would have a water partition between the driving and
15
the tanks.
16
17
the size of the tanks were.
18
19
like pretty much like a two-family home pretty much, the size.
20
As big as a house?
21
Yes.
What tanks were you driving by?

He was referring to the second set of tanks which
Were these tanks large or small?
The first set of
Give us an idea what
Those tanks were about three stories high, about looks
(Tape plays.)
22
23
You asked him where the pipeline is.
24
pipeline you referred to earlier that goes under the airport
25
and in to Queens?
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
Is that the
CSR
2767
Yes.
He doesn't know exactly where the pipes go.
pipes above or below ground?
They were below ground.
When he says at line 16 as long as one of them tanks get
hit, all gone, what did that refer to?
tanks were to be set off, the whole airport would be gone as
well as areas in Queens.
Were the
It referred earlier, JFK Airport was attacked, those
10
MR. JONES:
We'll pick back up.
11
(Tape plays.)
12
It says this is the tower, what tower are you referring
13
to?
14
The tower that directs the planes inside the airport.
15
Let's move ahead to 42 minutes and 6 seconds, page 12,
16
line 28.
(Tape plays.)
17
18
Mr. Defreitas is pointing out a couple of things in that
19
clip.
20
that portion of the transcript?
21
Yes.
22
Were you driving near places other than just the tanks?
23
Yes.
24
What types of places did you drive around?
25
We drove around the tanks.
You say there's American Airlines plane; you remember
SS
OCR
CM
We drove around the cargo
CRR
CSR
2768
area.
We also drove around the processing plant which turns
into gas, also points out to different routes we needed to
pass by, the clinic and also he mentioned there was an
electrical plant because the airport generates their own
electricity.
some of the driving around again.
16.
If I could ask you to turn to page 16, we'll move past

The top of the page, page
(Tape plays.)
9
10
When Mr. Defreitas says if anything happens, you got to
11
be doing things, get out of here fast, did you have further
12
discussions about this concept?
13
Yes.
14
What is it referring to?
15
He's mentioning in case we have to be directly involved
16
in the attack, we need to understand the routes.
17
need to train other people, Mohammed told me it would be wise
18
for not only him to know this, also to pass it on to me so
19
that this matter can be carried out at any time.
Also, if we
(Tape plays.)
20
21
Mr. Francis, at this point in the recording where he's
22
pointing out the lack of security at the tanks, is that right,
23
you say no, he doesn't see security?
24
Yes.
25
Had you been to this area of the airport before
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2769
Mr. Defreitas told you where to go?
No.
It says --
to you JFK Airport doesn't have the military security that
other countries have; is that right?
Yes.
Did you see people with machine guns standing around
these tanks?
No.
10
He says at line 11, all right, for years I've been
11
watching them, years watching them, two sets of tanks, benzene
12
and gas.
13
refer to?
14
15
and everything, the shifts, anything pertaining to the JFK
16
Airport.
17
blow up this place if I want, but he decided not to because at
18
that moment --
19
in his mind.
20
They will actually carry it out, pay top money for this.
21
also had mentioned that he started early looking at all this
22
and as you listen to the video, it says at some point they
23
were doing some stealing around in the cargo area which
24
actually he's the one that schooled them in how to get in and
25
out of the airport without actually being detected.
you testified earlier Mr. Defreitas remarked
Then you drive back on the road.
What does that
He mentioned for years he's been studying the whereabouts
He said at some point look at this, I could actually
he was young, he didn't really have a course
He said only the Arabs would know what I know.
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
He
1
MR. JONES:
(Tape plays.)
2770
Picking back up on the tape.
Mr. Defreitas says you haven't seen anything yet.
You're
going to drive over to the other side, act like you got lost.
What does that reference to?
actually classified.
shouldn't be wandering around.
you can get away with snooping around those areas is actually
10
if you play like you're lost or you take the wrong turn, your
11
vehicle has broke down.
12
please, I need help and they immediately will call assistance
13
for you and you will easily get out of the airport.
14
15
who?
16
17
meeting the people he worked with that were doing stealing
18
inside the warehouses, how to actually get away without being
19
detected by the authorities.
20
21
happen on JFK Airport, would those people need a way to get
22
out as well?
23
In reference some of the areas of the airport are

If you're not working at that place, you
In one of the ways actually
You claim to the authorities, please,
When he said I'll show them how to get away, all of them,
This is what I referred to earlier when I said he was
If the plot were to go through and the attack were to
Yes.
24
MR. JONES:
25
(Tape plays.)
SS
We'll pick it back up.
OCR
CM
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CSR
2771
When Mr. Defreitas says there you got good news to tell
the shiek, who is that?
Shiek Talib Bilal Rutherford.
It says there's no doubt Mohammed knows the place, what
place?
JFK Airport.
What's the point there?
need to call back to Rutherford?
Why did you and Mr. Defreitas
As a way to let them know of the progress and as well for
10
me to testify to the fact that the knowledge of the airport
11
that he had, JFK, was very vast and it was not just as a
12
regular person like I would do, for example, that I knew where
13
the terminal was but I did not know where all these places are
14
and I did not understand what he meant by the getaway areas
15
until actually I drove by.
16
17
Rutherford he knows the airport well?
18
That's correct.
19
I'm showing you what's been marked for identification as
20
Government Exhibit 206.
21
book, do you recognize Exhibit 206?
22
Yes.
23
What is that?
24
It's the audio or video between me and Defreitas which is
25
Mohammed.
When he said Mohammed knows the place, it's to tell
SS
OCR
If you could turn to 206-T in your
CM
CRR
CSR
2772
What's the date?
The date on that is January 3rd, 2007.
Is the recording on the CD a fair and accurate
representation, a recording that you made?
Yes.
MR. JONES:
Move 206 into evidence.
THE COURT:
Any objection?
MS. WHALEN:
MR. NKRUMAH:
THE COURT:
10
11
No, your Honor.
It's in evidence as Government
Exhibit 206.
12
(So marked.)
13
MR. JONES:
14
No, your Honor.
Permission to play a portion of this
for the jury, your Honor?

THE COURT:
15
Yes.
16
At 206 on your screen, Mr. Francis, this is a video of
17
the interior of what?
18
19
mine and on my right side is Shiek Mohammed.
20
is me driving the truck.
21
22
of the screen is you?
23
Yes.
24
You mean to your right as you're sitting in the truck?
25
Yes, I was driving, he was on my right.
This is the video of the interior of the truck which was

On the left side
On the left of the screen here is Defreitas, on the right
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
Now he's on the
CSR
1
left.
(Tape plays.)
MR. JONES:
2773
I'll fast forward this about a minute
to three minutes.
(Tape plays.)
5
6
He says there he wants to come back but he doesn't know
if they got the vehicle already.
because the tower is able to pick all the whereabouts of the
He meant the tower.
What does that mean?
His main concern was the tower
10
airport at that point.
11
Why would they have the vehicle already?
12
Well, he claimed could not escape the tower.
13
have already picked on the vehicle.
14
15
day, why wasn't this enough?
16
They should
Why did you need to go back to the airport on another
There were other areas he would like to explain to me.

(Tape plays.)
17
18
19
we went through line 30; is that right, Mr. Francis?
20
Yes.
21
When he says can't believe how a place like Kennedy could
22
be so lax, no soldiers, nothing at all.
23
that day?
24
25
Mr. Defreitas there again, to make sure, page three and
Did you see soldiers
No.
(Tape plays.) (Continues on next page.)
SS
OCR
CM
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CSR

1
BY MR. JONES:
which is the next thing in the transcript.
2774
We'll skip ahead to ten minutes and thirty-eight seconds,
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
Defreitas that you knew nothing about this area "until you
guys brought me the shining light"?
That's correct.
10
Who were "you guys"?
11
I meant Sheik Mohammed, Defreitas; I meant Sheik Dawood,
12
Sheik Dawood, which is Nero; and also Sheik Talib Bilal
13
Rutherford.
14
15
shining light."
16
The attack to the JFK Airport.
17
The tanks that you drove by, were they all in one place,
18
or in separate locations?
19
Separate locations.
20
Can you describe those, just in general terms, for the
21
jury?
22
23
Mr. Francis, at the bottom of page seven, you tell Mr.
And the shining light, you said "You guys brought me the
The "shining light" was what, again?
Yes.
The first sort of set of tanks is closer to Lefferts
24
Boulevard, but it's separated by the water, and as you drive
25
into the airport and you drive close to the cargo area, in
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2775
between the cargo and the entrance, there's another set of
tanks right before the precinct that is actually the ones that
carry either benzene or gas.
The benzene and the gas, you said?
Yes.
How close were you and Mr. Defreitas able to get to the
tanks?
Very close.
Were some harder to get close to than others?
10
Yes.
11
Why was that?
12
Again, some of the tanks, the water would be between us
13
and it.
14
the internal road of the JFK Airport.
15
16
references in the recording to wanting to update the sheik.
17
Do you remember that?
18
That's correct.
19
And you testified that the sheik was Rutherford?
20
That's correct.
21
Did you eventually update Rutherford on what you and
22
Defreitas had done at the airport?
23
Yes.
24
Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 207.
25
recognize that?
And the other set of tanks were easily accessed by
You testified a minute ago that there were a couple of
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
Do you
2776
Yes, I do.
What is it?
It's also a call or video or audio from the recordings I
made.
This is a conversation between myself, Mohammed,
5
6
which is Defreitas, and Sheik Rutherford.
What's the date?
It's January 3, 2007.
Is that a fair and accurate copy of the recording you
10
made on that date?
11
Yes.
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, I move Exhibit 207 into
14
THE COURT:
Any objection?
15
MS. WHALEN:
No objection.
16
MR. NKRUMAH:
17
THE COURT:
12
13
18
evidence.
(So marked.)
20
MR. JONES:
22
23
24
25
It's in evidence as Government's Exhibit
207.
19
21
No objection.
Judge, I don't know your preference.
can play some more audio, we can take a lunch break.

THE COURT:
We're still waiting.
The jury's lunch
will be here shortly, so we might as well play that.

MR. JONES:
Permission to play a portion of Exhibit
207 to the jury, your Honor?
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2777
THE COURT:
Granted.
MR. JONES:
Again, for the record, this corresponds
to number 403.
We're going to pick up at page two at four
minutes and fifty seconds into the recording.
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
Who are you speaking with here?
Sheik Talib Balil Rutherford.
Was Rutherford in the United States or elsewhere?
10
He was in Guyana.
11
Was Mr. Defreitas with you or not with you?
12
Yes, he was with me.
13
I'm sorry.
14
He was here in the United States.
Go ahead.
15
(Tape plays.)
16
(Tape stops.)
17
What mission had been accomplished that day, Mr. Francis?
18
We had already finished being at JFK Airport, and we had
19
observed the routes, the landmarks he spoke to to Talib
20
Rutherford, which is the tanks and towers.
21
the shifts, and we had covered what we were supposed to on
22
that date.
23
(Tape plays.)
24
(Tape stops.)
25
He had mentioned
The "light," the "sparkling light," what is that?
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2778
He had mentioned that before, that when we go in the
airport to do the snooping around or the video-taking and
picture-taking, because he had mentioned that there's
landmarks, at that moment of the picture-taking were going to
be called The Glass.
video or take pictures of a glass, you will receive a
sparkling light from the glass back to you.
The reason is that whenever you shoot
I jumped ahead here on the tape.
(Tape plays.)
10
(Tape stops.)
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2779
EXAMINATION CONTINUES
BY
are waiting for your guy's part, who is your guy?
the information to Abu Bakr.
this acreage that he was going to finance, that will set up
finance properly.
MR. JONES:
When you say your guy's part there, at line eight, you
His mention before, going to send Adbel Nur to -- to get
He had just finished telling you about this property,
Finance for what?
10
11
He mention before, Sheik Talib Rutherford that he was
12
able to provide the -- the assistance with the explosives,
13
which is the liquid dynamite and by the providing of -- by
14
them -- the investors purchasing this acres of -- acres of
15
land, he will be able to assist economically to the plot.
16
17
MR. JONES:
Should I keep going, Your Honor?
18
THE COURT:
If this is a good place to stop for you,
19
I think we should stop here.
20
ready.
The lunches for the jurors are
21
MR. JONES:
Yes, Your Honor.
22
THE COURT:
You can leave your -- why don't you put
23
24
25
your binders underneath your seats.

We will break for lunch now.
or draw any conclusions about the case.
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
Remember not to form

Keep an open mind.
CSR
2780
Don't talk amongst each other or with anyone else about the
case.
As I said, during lunch hour you are free to use the
cellphone but you may not use it to do any kind of research or
reading or looking at anything that might be reported in
connection with this case.
We will be with you around 2:30 or so after lunch.
Enjoy.
10
THE COURT:
The jurors are no longer present.
11
We will recess for lunch and resume at 2:30.
12
MR. JONES:
Yes, Your Honor.
13
THE COURT:
We will see you then, sir.
14
(Luncheon recess taken.)
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
GR
OCR
CM
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CSR

A F T E R N O O N
2781
S E S S I O N
THE COURT:
We're going to do the CIPA thing after the jury is
gone.
resumed.
Please be seated.
So, you can bring out the witness.
(Jury present.)
THE COURT:
A JUROR:
11
THE COURT:
12
A JUROR:
13
THE COURT:
14
ladies and gentlemen.
10
STEVE FRANCIS,
Welcome back,
I hope you enjoyed your lunch.
Outstanding.
Good.
Too much.
Do all the parties agree that all of our
jurors are present and properly seated?
15
MR. JONES:
Yes, your Honor.
16
MS. WHALEN:
17
MS. MESSINA:
18
THE COURT:
Yes, your Honor.

Yes, your Honor.
I'm going to ask you, ladies and
19
gentlemen, because it's taking way too long from the time that
20
we're ready to get you back in here.
21
you an idea of when we're going to resume again is so that you
22
can keep track of the time, as well, so that you know more or
23
less around that time, give or take a couple of minutes, that
24
we're going to be coming to get you.
25
another fifteen or twenty minutes from the time that we are
GR
OCR
CM
The reason why we give
If we have to wait
CRR
CSR

1
ready to get you back, then it's just going to delay the
trial.
during the day.
well as our time.
2782
These fifteen minutes add up, three or four times

They wind up adding up, and it's your time as
This is direct examination of Mr. Francis continued.
I remind you, sir, that you are still under oath.
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
And you may inquire, Mr. Jones.
MR. JONES:
Thank you, your Honor.
Yes.
10
DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUED
11
BY MR. JONES:
12
13
footage of you driving around in the truck?
14
Yes.
15
Can you tell us what kind of truck it was, what did it
16
look like on the outside?
17
An F150 truck.
18
Pickup truck?
19
Yes, a pickup truck.
20
What color?
21
Black.
22
We saw the footage of some of the early trips at the
23
airport with Mr. Defreitas.
24
was that the last time you and Mr. Defreitas went to the
25
airport?
Mr. Francis, you told us a little bit and we saw some
GR
OCR
The tape that we just watched,
CM
CRR
CSR
2783
No.
Why did you need to go again?
Because we haven't as yet taken the video or pictures of
the JFK Airport.
and you can turn to 208-T in your book.
Showing you Government's Exhibit 208 for identification,
THE COURT:
7
8
208-T, please.
ready to move along.
The jurors can take out their books.
Don't read forward.
Wait until we're really
10
Do you recognize that disk?
11
Yes.
12
What is that?
13
It's a video or audio of me and Sheik Mohammed, which is
14
Russell Defreitas.
15
What's the approximate date?
16
January 4, 2007.
17
Does the recording on this CD fairly and accurately
18
represent the recording that you made on that date?
19
20
21
Yes.
MR. JONES:
208 into evidence.
22
THE COURT:
23
MS. WHALEN:
24
MR. NKRUMAH:
25
THE COURT:
GR
Any objection?
No objection, your Honor.
No objection.
It's in evidence.
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR

MR. JONES:
1
2
2784
For the record, this corresponds to ID
33, Session 1.
THE COURT:
Thank you.
(So marked.)
BY MR. JONES:
up at page five, line seventeen.
Mr. Francis, if you could turn to 208-T, and we'll pick
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
10
This recording just referred to -- I just stopped it
11
right after line seven on page six -- when you were talking
12
about the cameras and stuff, what camera?
13
14
going to be used in the recordings of the JFK Airport, and he
15
had mentioned that he needed to videotape or take pictures of
16
the airport, and that we were in need of a high-tech camera to
17
do that.
We had spoken earlier on about the cameras that were
At that time, I mentioned that I will ask around.
18
19
But he said that he preferred that it was a high-tech camera.
20
So, we were looking for a possible option.
21
You needed to buy this video camera?
22
Yes.
23
(Tape plays.)
24
(Tape stops.)
25
Who was he referring to when he says "the sheik" there?
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR

1
he meant.
that's Rutherford?
the time this recording was made?
airport, and I was getting the information about how to --
10
We talking of Sheik Talib Bilal Rutherford.
2785
That's what
When he says he was happy -- talking about the sheik --
Yes.
"What we did yesterday," what had you done yesterday by
Yes.
That's when we had finished driving around the
what kind of landmarks he was looking at.
11
As he mentioned before many times the matter of the
12
tower, which actually, again, he mentions, also, here in this
13
tape, that there were cameras with a black box, meaning that
14
the towers, his main concern and the basis of security for in
15
his mind, the tower will see everything.
16
gathering the information and learning the ins and out and he
17
teaching me how to even escape in case of a necessity, he
18
realized that he accomplished, we went in and out without
19
being detected by the tower.
By us going in and
20
So, we proceeded to make the phone call to
21
Rutherford and inform him, and by now, he believed that he was
22
already informing Sheik Dawood about the matter, hoping that
23
his reaction will be good and that we will proceed into the
24
next step.
25
(Tape plays.)
GR
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2786
(Tape stops.)
1
2
Mr. Francis, at the bottom of page eight, Russell
Defreitas is discussing -- first, he says, "Remember, Kennedy
never get hit yet."
paying good money for people to talk."
He says, "They will go to the extreme,
What did you understand that to be a reference to.
6
7
Yes.
He felt ill at ease to let any one of his
acquaintances to know, because if they know this information
about blowing up the JFK Airport, they can go to the
10
authorities and actually inform them, and if the price was
11
right, according to him.
12
He felt ill at ease.
We'll jump ahead to page ten at around line seventeen.
13
(Tape plays.)
14
(Tape stops.)
15
MR. JONES:
We'll stop it there.
16
Again, after this trip, the background noise here, you
17
are in the car; is that correct, sir?
18
Yes.
19
Was there more surveillance of the airport from your car
20
with Mr. Defreitas after this?
21
Yes.
22
I show you Exhibits 209 and 210, Government's Exhibits
23
209 and 210?

Do you recognize what those are.
24
25
Yes.
GR
OCR
CM
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1
2787
They correspond to 209-T and 210-T?

What is 209.
2
3
It's one of the recordings with Mohammed.
And what is 210?
It is also another recording on same day with Mohammed.
What is that day?
January 4, 2007.
Are both of these fair and accurate copies of the
recordings you made that day?
10
Yes.
11
MR. JONES:
The government offers 209 and 210.
12
THE COURT:
Any objection?
13
MS. WHALEN:
No objection.
14
MR. NKRUMAH:
15
MR. JONES:
16
And 210 is ID 33, Session 4.
17
(So marked.)
18
MR. JONES:
May I publish them to the jury?
19
THE COURT:
Yes.
20
MR. JONES:
We'll start with 209.
21
Pick it up at around three minutes and forty
No objection.
209 corresponds with ID 33, Session 2.
22
seconds, which is the bottom of page three of 209.
23
BY MR. JONES:
24
25
"Dawood is a good mechanic."
Mr. Francis, we're now at the top of page four.
GR
OCR
Dawood is who?
CM
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CSR
It says

1
That's Nero.
That's the gentleman you testified to earlier?
Yes.
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
2788
Now, at this point, you said this is January 4 of 2007;
is that correct?
Yes.
You have testified that within a day or two of this, you
10
spoke with Rutherford on the phone, and he was in Guyana;
11
correct?
12
Yes.
13
Now, you are discussing Sheik Dawood, Donald Nero; is
14
that right?
15
Yes.
16
Are both of those people still in the plot at this point,
17
in January of '07?
18
19
20
That's correct.
MR. JONES:
We're going to skip ahead to page five
of the transcript, and we'll start at line seventeen.
21
(Tape plays.)
22
(Tape stops.)
23
24
25
GR
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2789
BY
driving -- you are back in driving around the airport, is that
correct?
MR. JONES:
Mr. DeFreitas says, we are in the airport.
Are you now
Yes.
MR. JONES:
We are going to skip some of this
driving around and going to page eight of the transcript.
That's at 15 minutes and 28 seconds.

10
11
Now, as you are driving along this noise, it's -- this is
12
car noise essentially is what's going on?

The audio is picking up the car?
13
14
Yes.
MR. JONES:
15
We will skip ahead with some of this
16
stuff and go to page 12 of the transcript, at 22 minutes
17
47 seconds.
18
19
MR. JONES:
20
page two at the top, at 210 T.
Okay.
Then Exhibit 210, it picks up
21
22
All right.
23
this conversation and you -- Mr. DeFreitas references on page
24
three, I need to pay them back for all those missiles they
25
make me load.
GR
Mr. Francis, when you are driving around in
OCR
CM
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CSR
2790
Where was that?
1
2
For the company that he used to work for, Evergreen, as
he told me.
some point, that as he was working for that company,
especially -- he was loading the planes with the crates that
were full of missiles and Apaches and tanks.
displeased at the matter, to the point to say now that this is
a great chance to get them back for all this military
equipment that they were sending to kill innocent Muslims.

MR. JONES:
10
11
He mentioned that as we were passing by once, at
So he was so
We will pick back up at page five, at
line four.
12
13
Mr. Francis, when -- what is this paragraph that we just
14
finished listening to, what is that talking about?

What does it mean for gas line, going out over
15
16
there, gas line over here.
17
real fast.
They are going to have to work
They are well trained.

What is that discussion about?
18
19
20
the attack took place, it will be a great devastation and even
21
if people try to run out, it will be too late for them.
22
are they going to go?
23
Yes.
He mentioned -- Mohammed mentioned that whenever
Where
Jamaica Bay or something like that?
And he knew that moment and he expressed to me that
24
the emergency system would actually come very quick but they
25
will only be able to save some part of Queens and not the
GR
OCR
CM
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2791
airport but he didn't care because it was the airport that his
main concern of, JFK Airport.
MR. JONES:
this sick family?
We will pick back up there.
Can you just tell us, Mr. Francis, what's going on here,
Who is that?
7
8
That was my wife.
She was pregnant?
10
Yes.
11
You refer to Sheik Dawood.

Did he have any expertise that he claimed to have in
12
13
this regard?
14
Yes.
15
What was that?
16
He explained to me how to do according -- in Islamic way,
17
how to actually take care of my wife.
18
That's what this discussion here is about?
19
Yes.
20
21
Mr. Francis, I am showing you Government Exhibit 211 for
22
identification.
Do you recognize what's on this -- do you recognize
23
24
that CD?
25
Yes.
GR
OCR
CM
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CSR
2792
What is that?
It's an audio or DVD of me and Mohammed.
From what date?
January 4, 2007.
Is the recording on this CD a fair and accurate copy of a
recording you made on that date?
Yes.
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, I move 211 into evidence.
THE COURT:
Any objection?
10
MS. WHALEN:
No objection.
11
MR. NKRUMAH:
12
THE COURT:
What was the date on that?
13
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, it's --
14
THE WITNESS:
15
THE COURT:
Thank you.
16
MR. JONES:
Yes.
17
THE COURT:
It's in evidence as Government Exhibit
18
January 4, 2007.
number 211.
MR. JONES:
19
20
No objection.
Your Honor, that corresponds for the
record to 33, session five.

(Marked. )
21
22
You testified a minute ago, Mr. Francis, about some
23
things Mr. DeFreitas told you would happen if the bombs went
24
off; correct?
25
That's correct.
GR
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1
is that right?
And where people would go in the event of a catastrophe,
Yes.
MR. JONES:
4
5
Playing for you Government Exhibit 211
and it picks up at the top of page two.

6
7
on there?
I'm sorry?
10
That pinging, that's the car door?
11
That's the car door, yes.
12
Who was getting in the car?
13
Mohammed was.
Well, that's your door.
MR. JONES:
14
15
2 seconds.
Is that the ringing that's going
We will move over to four minutes and
That is page three of the transcript, at the top.
16
17
THE WITNESS:
18
MR. JONES:
19
I'm sorry.
Which page again?
Page three, we are in sort of toward the
top there.
20
THE WITNESS:
21
22
23
going, is that right?
24
25
2793
Thank you.
You are expressing here that you don't know where you are
That's correct.
MR. JONES:
GR
If you can flip forward through some of
OCR
CM
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CSR
2794
the other pages, to -- we will pick up again at page five,
middle of the page, at around 11 minutes.
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
GR
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CM
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2795
1
BY MR. JONES:
(Tape continues play.)
3
4
The page before there's a discussion if there's a
disaster where people would go; is that correct?
Yes.
What is this discussion about boats and other vehicles
responding?
What is that about?
He was talking about the emergency system where actually
10
the airport has a quick response for attacks, but even if they
11
would get there fast enough, they won't be fast enough to save
12
the JFK Airport.
13
Queens.
14
15
pole, a discussion about one man.
16
17
fishing at some point and suspiciously drifted into the areas
18
where I mention we were driving, which separates the tanks
19
from the road, the first set of tanks, there's water in
20
between, the road that we were driving off and the tanks.
21
They would probably save some parts of
He mentioned this fisherman, this guy with the fishing

What is that about?
I mentioned before Mohammed mentioned there was a guy
He said this boat drifted all the way around the
22
tanks and the guy was picked up by the authorities and they
23
found fishes in the boat.
24
place at the JFK Airport at the time, Mohammed mentioned he
25
would be the prime suspect which actually would free us from
SS
OCR
He said if anything was to take
CM
CRR
CSR
2796
1
any suspicion or any possible interrogation from the
authorities.
We pick up around line 17 of the same page.

(Tape plays.)
4
5
Mr. Francis, a couple of questions about some of the
things we just heard on that tape.

First of all, on page 11 of the transcript, you
7
8
heard Mr. Defreitas telling a story about how he had made or
had experience of making bombs in Guyana, is that correct?
10
Yes.
11
What did he tell you in that regard?
12
He mentioned that he was part of some sort of movement in
13
Guyana where actually someone taught him how to make bombs.
14
They were experienced --
15
racial differences between the African-Americans and the
16
Indians.
17
fighting, demonstrations with the government, all kinds of
18
stuff.
19
20
expertise in this particular plot?
21
That's correct.
22
Later he says on page 13 in the middle of the page that
23
you got to tell the shiek to hurry up.
24
Rutherford?
25
he was experienced in youth, great
So, they were involved in several activities,
Is this something he suggested would give him some
Again, was this still
Yes.
SS
OCR
CM
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CSR
2797
1
He says hurry up, get to Trinidad.
much.
immediately.
We accomplish too
A little lower, he says I want to go to Trinidad
What was the holdup?
4
5
response of Abdul Nur, was waiting for some travel documents,
some documents coming from Canada in order for him to go to
Trinidad.
Abdel Nur's documents?
10
Yes.
11
He wasn't able, as far as you know, to travel to Trinidad
12
to further the plot?
13
At this point, yes.
14
When Defreitas says I don't want to just be sitting here
15
like a cell, the bottom of page 13, what is a cell?
16
17
actually part of an organization known to be terrorists.
18
example, Al Qaeda or any other organizations.
19
cell does, it will mingle with the people normally until he
20
waits --
21
22
23
24
25
At this point Sheik Rutherford was waiting for the
A sleeping cell, terrorist cell or sell, Muslim, that is
MS. WHALEN:
For
What a sleeping
Objection, your Honor.
Is he
testifying from his own knowledge?

THE COURT:
If you want to do legal argument, we
need to do that on the side.

(Side bar.)
SS
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CM
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CSR
2798
1
THE COURT:
Basis for objection?
MS. WHALEN:
He's testifying as if he knows, some
kind of an expert what a sleeping cell is, didn't preface it
Mr. Defreitas explained.
meant.
expert, no basis.
He launched into this whole explanation.
MR. JONES:
You were asking what Mr. Defreitas
I'm happy to ask --
He's not an
I believe it's
right --
did you have conversations with Mr. Defreitas about this ?
10
11
did Mr. Defreitas tell you what he meant by that or
it's yes, it's yes.
If no, I'll stop.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
SS
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CM
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CSR
If
2799
(Open court.)
1
2
Mr. Francis, did you have any conversations with
Mr. Defreitas about what he believed a cell to be?
Yes.
What did he say about that?
He said he don't want to wait like cells, wait for a long
period of time.
for Sheik Rutherford to make his mind up whether it's a year,
two years, three years.
He want to hurry up, not just wait indefinite
He wants this thing to be done
10
immediately.
The accomplishment, as he's claiming here, that
11
we have made in the airport, would take years for any regular
12
individual that didn't have any partaking in the airport.
13
14
Trinidad.
15
eventually in this plot actually ended up going to Trinidad to
16
speak with Abu Bakr?
17
Yes.
18
Some point later; is that correct?
19
That's correct.
20
In this time period you mentioned getting a video camera
21
to actually take photographs and pictures of what the tanks
22
looked like to take it back to Guyana; is that right?
23
Yes.
24
Did you ever get any?
25
Yes.
You mentioned Abdel Nur, the plan to send him to

Could you tell us, do you know if Abdel Nur
SS
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2800
THE COURT:
1
2
Does the jury want a break now?
you okay, want to keep going?
MS. WHALEN:
THE COURT:
Are
Good.
I'm sorry, your Honor.

Very quick break, like ten minutes.
Remember, don't talk about the case.
conclusions about what you've seen or heard here.
do any kind of research, look at anything, read anything about
this case.
9
10
(Jury leaves courtroom).

THE COURT:
The jury is no longer present.
resume at 4:18.
12
it along a little bit.
14
You can't
About ten minutes or so.
11
13
Don't form or draw any
We'll
We'll probably go until 5:30 so we could move
Can you folks look around, make sure there isn't any
electronic device that's causing the disturbance?
15
(Recess.)
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
SS
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1
THE COURT:
(Jury present.)
THE COURT:
2801
Please be seated.

Do the parties
all agree that all of our jurors are present and properly
seated?
Government?
MR. JONES:
Yes, your Honor.
10
THE COURT:
Defense?
11
MS. WHALEN:
12
MR. NKRUMAH:
13
THE COURT:
14
Yes, your Honor.

Yes, your Honor.
I remind you, sir, that you are still
under oath.
15
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
16
THE COURT:
17
the government of Mr. Francis.
This is continued direct examination by
18
Mr. Jones, you may continue.
19
MR. JONES:
Thank you, your Honor.
20
BY MR. JONES:
21
22
you eventually did get the video camera that the group had
23
discussed?
Mr. Francis, you were telling us before the break that
Is that correct.
24
25
Yes.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2802
Where did you go to get the video camera?
We went to an establishment that is located here in
Manhattan.
Who did you go with?
I went with Mohammed.
Who picked out the camera?
Mohammed did.
Did Mohammed or defendant Defreitas tell you what he was
looking for in the camera, what kinds of features?
10
Yes.
11
What was most important?
12
That it was easily concealed, and that it was pretty
13
advanced, so it could take good still shots or video shoots.
14
15
Yes.
16
Did he ultimately pick out a camera to his liking?
17
Yes.
18
Who paid for the camera?
19
I did.
20
Did you know how to use the camera when you bought it?
21
No.
22
Did Mr. Defreitas know?
23
No.
24
Did anyone have to show the two of you how to use it?
25
Yes.
"Advanced," is that the word you used?

High tech.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2803
Who was that?
The person who was selling the equipment to us, the
camera.
Why couldn't you just push "Play"?
It was a high-tech camera, pretty advanced, and none of
us understood how to work it.
Once you bought the camera, what did you do with it?
We took the camera, we took some still shots with the
camera to see if it works, and then he instructed me that we
10
were going to the airport afterward.
11
Why did the camera have to be small?
12
He was concerned that the tower will pick anything up,
13
including -- even if the ants were crawling on the floor, it
14
will be picked up by the tower.
15
not only that the tower will pick up this matter, but also any
16
taxi drivers, anyone that works in the airport.
17
see us with the camera in hand, they will immediately give the
18
information to the authorities, and we will be picked up for
19
questioning.
20
21
with a video camera at the airport?
22
No.
23
Where did Mr. Defreitas -- who held the camera?
24
He did, Mohammed did.
25
And you drove?
So, if we had any cameras,
If they would
Did it seem like a good idea to be hanging out the window
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2804
Yes.
Where did Mr. Defreitas sit while he held the camera?
He said that he wanted to hide, so he asked me that if it
was possible to hide in the back of my truck.
one and-a-half compartment, so the rear of the truck, there's
a bench, so it could be lifted and made into a space.
asked me if he could actually lay down there, and I said,
Well, we'll have to lift the bench and stuff, and he did, and
he did lay in the back of the truck.
The F150 had a
So, he
10
This is still inside the cab, but behind the seats; is
11
that right?
12
Yes.
13
Not sitting in the bed of the truck?
14
No.
15
Did you drive around the airport with that camera?
16
Yes.
17
After practicing with it a little bit, as you testified,
18
did you end up shooting some of the landmarks, filming some of
19
the landmarks at the airport?
20
That is correct.
21
I'm showing you what has been marked as Government's
22
Exhibit 50?
No.
Of course not.
Do you recognize that CD.
23
24
Yes, I do.
25
What is that?
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

1
Mohammed.
Are these the videos you were just testifying about?
Yes.
Have you reviewed this collection of videos prior to
being here today?
That's correct.
And are those your initials on the CD?
Yes.
11
That is video as well as audio that I recorded with Sheik
MR. JONES:
10
50 in evidence.
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. NKRUMAH:
14
MS. WHALEN:
15
THE COURT:
16
(So marked.)
17
MR. JONES:
18
2805
Any objection?
No objection.
No objection.
It's in evidence.
Permission to play some of that exhibit,
your Honor?
THE COURT:
19
Yes.
20
BY MR. JONES:
21
22
can you just tell us a little bit about what we can expect to
23
see?
24
25
better-quality videos.
Mr. Francis, before we play some of these video clips,
What's the quality of the video like?

It's poor quality, actually, some.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
And some are
2806
Sometimes there's filming inside the car and things like
that, and sometimes you actually get things on the outside; is
that right?
That's correct.
What was so hard about filming steady shots of tanks in
the airport?
it is.
expressed to me that he was very scared to actually be picked
Well, it was not per se how difficult it is or how easy

It's the fact that we were concerned.
Mohammed
10
up by the tower, and since the tower is so high tech and is
11
able to pick anything, even if you sneeze, he was concerned
12
about it.
13
at the same token, as I'm driving the truck, he wanted me to
14
actually pay attention to the camera, and I also felt that I
15
could be also stopped by the authorities and asked questions,
16
what am I doing in the airport, and why are we recording video
17
of the airport, as well.
18
19
all of these; is that right?
20
Yes.
21
Some of them are longer than others; correct?
22
That's correct.
23
Let's start with the first one, number five?
I'm going to show you some of these clips.
You reviewed
Are you driving at this point.
24
25
He was kind of hiding in the back of the truck, and
Yes.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

1
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
Who are the voices here?
2807
Who are you having this
discussion with about the grass?
With Mohammed, Sheik Defreitas.
You say "There's grass" as he's holding the camera up,
and there's grass in front; is that right?
That's correct.
What are these things in the back here?
10
They are the tanks.
11
Those are the tanks that you have been discussing all
12
day?
13
Yes.
14
(Tape plays.)
15
(Tape stops.)
16
Now, that part right there where he says, I can go in the
17
back seat, and you tell him to put the seat down, is that what
18
you had finished testifying about, that he then gets in the
19
back of the truck?
20
21
having troubles to actually shoot-out the video and I was
22
driving and I was concerned about either getting into an
23
accident or, again, creating more of a problem while driving,
24
I instructed -- I told him if he can't see, I cannot direct
25
and drive at the same time.
Yes.
He was already in the back, and because he was
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
If you want to sit up or
CSR

1
something, that's on you.
2808
I'll show you, then, number six, the next one.
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
We just saw a couple of signs passed by there.
It sounds
like this road is -- you testified there are two different
kinds of roads.
this the busier road?
I don't think so.
10
The tanks in the video seem to be a ways away.
11
between you and the field tanks?
12
13
a separation between us driving and the tanks is the water.
14
This is where the fishermen actually drift into, the same
15
area.
16
One was a lot busier than the other one.
Is
The other one is the busiest road.

What's
This is the set of tanks that I mentioned that there was
We'll show you number seven.
17
(Tape plays.)
18
(Tape stops.)
19
This right in the bottom of your screen, Mr. Francis.
20
That's the body of water you were discussing?
21
That's correct.
22
(Tape plays.)
23
(Tape stops.)
24
In there, he says "All right, good enough."
25
as you testified before, Mr. Francis, these are not
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
Obviously,
2809
professional-quality videos.
What is it good enough for?
was good enough to actually display his knowledge and
understanding of the JFK Airport to any potential investor or
anyone that may be interested in the plot.
It's good enough to display.
He meant by that that it
I show you number ten.
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
What is that in the middle of your screen?
10
Those are the other set of tanks, the ones that are
11
actually closer to the road.
12
13
than you were on the other ones where you said there was a
14
body of water between you; is that right?
15
And it's fair to say you are a lot closer to these tanks
That's correct.
16
(Tape plays.)
17
(Tape stops.)
18
Just in terms of scale, Mr. Francis, you testified
19
earlier today that these things are a couple of stories high?
20
That's correct.
21
This truck here on the left, does that help demonstrate
22
the scale of the tanks?
23
Of course.
That's a very big truck.
24
(Tape plays.)
25
(Tape stops.)
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2810
These clips cut in and out, as we have just been seeing,
and some of them are short.
not one long movie, documentary style, about JFK Airport?
warned me that we couldn't get caught with the camera in hand.
He didn't need, according to him, a whole video.
needed enough clips that would display the different landmarks
that he was trying to attack, as well as to display the
knowledge that he had, where these landmarks were, and what
Why are there distinct clips and
Well, because, like he mentioned before, Mohammed, he
He just
10
kind of material they are made of, and also to display his
11
knowledge of the JFK Airport, as well.
12
We're going to twenty-one.
13
(Tape plays.)
14
(Tape stops.)
15
16
the Exhibit 50, number twenty-one?
17
bottom?
18
19
running and also where they are parking.
20
Why are you filming the hangars?
21
Also a target that he has chosen, meaning Sheik Mohammed.
22
Now, I'm going to show you what's been marked as
23
Government's Exhibits 51 through -- 51, 52, 53, all the way
24
through 61.
25
What are those at the bottom of your screen as part of

What are those at the
These are the hangars, actually, where the planes are
So, that's 51 through 61?
Can you flip through those and tell the jury if you
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
Francis - voir dire - Whalen

1
2811
recognize what those are?

(Pause.)
2
3
Yes.
What are they?
They are the still shots of the video that we just
watched.
you video'd with Russell Defreitas on the dates you have just
been testifying about?
10
Are they fair and accurate representations of items that
That's correct.
MR. JONES:
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12
I move into evidence Government's
Exhibits 51 through 61.
13
THE COURT:
14
MR. NKRUMAH:
15
THE COURT:
Any objection?
May I briefly inquire?
Yes.
16
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
17
BY MS. WHALEN:
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19
these are still shots of the videos that you took on Exhibit
20
50; is that correct?
21
That's correct.
22
And have these shots -- are they just taken from the
23
film, they have not been altered in any way?
24
25
Mr. Francis, you testified that these are individual --
Yes.
They have not been altered in any way.

MS. WHALEN:
No further questions.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
Thank you.

1
THE COURT:
MR. NKRUMAH:
MS. WHALEN:
THE COURT:
Any objection?
Okay.
Exhibits 51 through 61 are in
evidence.
(So marked.)
MR. JONES:
2812
Your Honor, I request permission to use
the Elmo for just a minute with these.

THE COURT:
Sure.
10
11
BY MR. JONES:
12
13
Exhibit 51, this is a shot taken that you just testified is a
14
still shot from the video.
15
16
naturally, these planes are located in that area as he was
17
videotaping.
18
way, he can show and display to the investors that actually we
19
are discussing about JFK Airport.
20
Exhibit 60.
21
Yes, also part of the same area that we were driving by.
22
And as you notice, the planes are very similar to the other
23
ones.
24
closer, and the planes are moving.
25
Mr. Francis, some of these we've already discussed, but
Why are you filming airplanes?
Well, this is we're passing by the cargo area, and
Also, it was an important shot, because that
Can you tell what those are?
It's a still shot.
As we drive by, we are getting
And then this is what we just saw on the video, showing
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

1
the scale of the tanks; is that correct?
saw.
That's correct.
4
5
2813
And that's actually the truck we just
THE COURT:
Can you tell us what exhibit number that
MR. JONES:
Sorry.
is?
Exhibit 59.
When you had had these meetings that you testified to
about earlier, the meetings you had in Guyana with Nero and
Rutherford and Mr. Defreitas, was it important to get footage
10
of the actual tanks and determine composition?
11
Yes.
MR. JONES:
12
13
the laptop?
Your Honor, if we could switch back to
I'm done with the Elmo.
Thank you.
14
15
You mentioned earlier, Mr. Francis, that Defreitas told
16
you he worked at the airport; is that correct?
17
Yes.
18
Did you ever see the place that he works --
19
Yes.
20
21
22
he mentioned where he used to work before.
23
-- used to work.
He told me which -- we were snooping around the area, and
I'm going to show you Government's Exhibits 212 and 213?

Actually, let's just do 213.
24
25
I'm sorry.
213-T.
If you can look at
Do you know what's on Disk 213.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2814
Yes.
What is it?
This is an audio or video with me and Sheik Mohammed.
From what date?
That's on January 11, 2007.
Have you seen this CD before?
Of course.
Does it have your initials on it?
Yes.
10
Does it fairly and accurately represent a conversation
11
you had on that date with Mr. Defreitas?
12
Yes.
MR. JONES:
13
14
evidence, as well as 212, which I believe is on stipulation.
15
MR. NKRUMAH:
16
MS. WHALEN:
17
THE COURT:
18
Your Honor, I move Exhibit 213 into
No objection.
No objection.
Well, 212 and 213 are admitted in
evidence.
19
(So marked.)
20
THE COURT:
Can we know what 212 is?
21
MR. JONES:
212 corresponds to 34,
22
ID 34, Session 3
23
213 corresponds to ID 46, Session 1.
24
THE COURT:
The date on 212?
25
MR. JONES:
212, the date is January 4, 2007.
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR

1
THE COURT:
And the parties?
MR. JONES:
Russell Defreitas and the witness,
Steven Francis.
Permission to play 213, your Honor?
THE COURT:
(Tape plays.)
(Tape stops.)
Yes.
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18
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25
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2815
2816
BY
11 of the -- page 14 of the transcript, starting at around
11 minutes 15 seconds.
MR. JONES:
We are going to start, Mr. Francis, if you turn to page
Yes.
7
8
It's page 14, Mr. Francis, line 14.

Do you have it?
9
10
Yes.
11
MR. JONES:
Okay.
12
13
Sir, when he says that he went to the blind side, what
14
was the blind side?
15
16
actually it was very -- very little access, if none.
The blind side is a place that is being closed down and
17
18
You mentioned before that you saw where Mr. DeFreitas
19
used to work.
Is that what's referred to here on page 18,
20
21
Evergreen?
22
Yes.
23
That's what he told you?
24
Yes.
25
If you could flip ahead to page 25 of the transcript.
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We

1
will start in the middle, at around line 20.
2817
Yes.
3
4
Mr. Francis, we have listened and seen several exhibits
now of you and Mr. DeFreitas driving around the airport.
that correct?
Yes.
After taking these videos and driving around the airport,
did you ever leave the country again?
Is
10
Yes.
11
Meaning you left the United States again?
12
That's correct.
13
Did you travel with anyone or did you travel alone?
14
I traveled with Sheik Mohammed.
15
Is this for pleasure or was it related to the plot?
16
Related to the plot.
17
About when did you leave the United States again?
18
In the mid- -- in the middle of January.
19
Again, the tapes you just discussed you testified were
20
early January, is that correct?
21
22
14th.
23
Were you on the same flight as Mr. DeFreitas?
24
Yes.
25
Yes.
I would say, like anywhere around between 13th,
THE COURT:
GR
Was this January of what year?
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THE WITNESS:
MR. JONES:
2818
Oh, January 2007.
What -- where did you fly into, what town?
We flew to Guyana.
Is it Georgetown?
Georgetown, yes.
What, if anything, did you take with you that's relevant
to this case?
Took the camera as well as the videos that we have seen
10
just now.
11
12
you are in Guyana, did you go anywhere else other than
13
Georgetown?
14
Yes.
15
Where did you go?
16
I also went to Linden.
17
Did you later, although not now, but did you later meet
18
somebody who lived in Linden?
19
Yes.
20
Who was that?
21
Abdul Kadir.
22
Was that the defendant you identified on Thursday?
23
That's correct.
24
Backing up to when you arrived in Guyana in mid-January
25
of 2007 with Mr. DeFreitas, did you have any meetings or
Did you go on when -- when you are on this trip, while
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2819
discussions about the plot to attack JFK Airport?
Yes.
One meeting or several meetings?
Several meetings.
Who were some of the people that you met with on this
particular trip?
is Nero, Sheik Rutherford, Long Hair, and Abdel Nur.
Did you meet with anyone in Linden in this regard?
10
Yes.
11
Who was that?
12
Abdul Kadir.
13
You sometimes, Mr. Francis, use the word Sheik in front
14
of names.
15
doing that?
16
That's correct.
17
When you had these meetings in Guyana about the plot to
18
attack the airport, where did you meet?
19
20
office, at the beginning, after -- right after we actually
21
flew on January 2007.
22
23
you have any -- well, did you do anything with the video?
24
Yes.
25
What did you do with the video?
Sheik Mohammed, which is DeFreitas, Sheik Dawood, which
Is that a -- a religious term?
Is that why you are
When we were -- generally met at Sheik Rutherford's
During these early meetings that you just mentioned, did
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2820
We -- I was instructed by Sheik Mohammed to actually
place it on the -- on -- to play it on the computer of Talib
Bilal Rutherford and as we downloaded the computer was very
slow.
there was any other way to -- to display the video.
inside the bag and we saw other -- all kinds of cables that
the -- the camera brought and actually we were able to plug it
into the television at that point.
When say we, who do you mean?
10
Meaning myself, Sheik Mohammed and present at that time
11
was Dawood, Masood and also Talib Rutherford.
12
13
DeFreitas -- whichever you like -- did you have discussions
14
with him about the quality of the videos?
15
That's correct.
16
What were those -- what did he have to say about that?
17
Well, he was concerned about the arguing that was going
18
on between us on the video while he was instructing me to tell
19
him to -- to tell him if he was actually recording the tanks
20
and I was actually telling him that I was driving, that I
21
couldn't drive and actually direct him as well.
22
to kill that -- he wanted to actually take away the sound and
23
he also did not want to display the ones that he was showing
24
his foot or other places of the truck.
25
It had a lot of programs on it.
So I was asked if
We went
Did you have any discussions with Mohammed or defendant
So he wanted
In future meetings that I will ask you about in a little
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2821
bit, in future meetings did you indeed turn the audio down and
just play the video?
Yes.
Was the video useful in these meetings with Rutherford
and Nero and the others you mentioned?
Yes.
How did Rutherford, for example, react to seeing the
videos?
He said Alhamdulillah.
10
Court reporters have to take all this down.
11
Sorry.
12
When -- so he was -THE COURT:
13
14
If you can spell those words for the
reporter later?
15
What does that mean?
16
THE WITNESS:
It means all praises to Allah.
17
This was what Rutherford said to you?
18
That's what he said.

He got as -- as soon as the video finished, he
19
20
jumped up and he said that and so also was Sheik Dawood was
21
very happy also as well.
22
23
about what the tanks were made of and how to actually attack
24
them?
25
After showing the video, did you have any discussions
That's correct.
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2822
What were those conversations about?
As they saw the tanks, meaning Sheik Dawood and Talib
Rutherford, it became concern of what was -- what kind of
material the tanks were made of.
attention that -- actually by Sheik Dawood that the tanks seem
to be of somewhat of titanium or a very strong material in
order to withhold all that gas in there.

On that note, Talib Rutherford, he mentioned that we
8
9
It was brought to the
should use dynamite, that Sheik Dawood said that he don't
10
think that dynamite would be enough to ignite this explosion
11
but further we needed some sort of chemicals that will
12
actually go through the tank and dissolve the walls of the
13
tank or something or burn the tank and Sheik Talib Rutherford
14
mentioned that he didn't meant the regular dynamite, what
15
looks like powdery kind.
16
gel that is used in the -- yes?
17
He meant some gel, special dynamite
Just to -- to break that back down.

This is what you told us about earlier with the gel
18
19
dynamite, is that correct?
20
That is correct.
21
During these conversations about how to actually blow
22
them up and watching the videos, how long did these meetings
23
last?
24
Did they last for a couple of days, a few weeks?
25
This series of meetings, how long did they last?
GR
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2823
Mostly couple of weeks.
Did -- during that time, did any conflicts among the
group develop?
Yes.
What were some of the conflicts?
Well, Sheik Mohammed actually had mentioned that he
didn't want to be sitting like ducks or cells in Guyana.
want this plot to be taken to Trinidad as soon as possible and
they started being conflicts about the whereabouts of
He
10
Shukrijumah, if he was in Trinidad or if he was in interior of
11
Guyana and also the travel documents for Abdel Nur were not
12
ready yet and right after the showing of the playing of the
13
video, he became -- Mohammed became concerned because the
14
video was worth a lot of money and by giving us the runaround
15
he thought that it was a possibility that they were doing some
16
sort of -- that Sheik Mohammed -- that Sheik Talib Rutherford
17
as well as Sheik Dawood were doing something in his back
18
without his knowledge.
19
20
Dawood or Nero were doing things behind his back, what do you
21
mean?
22
23
outside of his knowledge.
24
25
for Rutherford, was that ever stored on his computer?
When you say DeFreitas was worried that Rutherford and
He thought that they were actually negotiating the plot
The video that you testified earlier that you had played
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Yes.
2824
And the main reason why he became concerned about
it, about the -- they actually doing negotiations without his
knowledge.
files from Rutherford's computer?
Yes.
Who told you to do that, if anyone?
DeFreitas told me that he wanted removed and also the FBI
was in agreement with that.
Did you ever remove that video file from -- the video
10
Did you take it off?
11
Yes.
12
How did Rutherford react when he learned that you had
13
removed that video from his computer?
14
He went on a rage.
15
What happened?
16
He threw us out of the office.
17
When you say us, who do you mean?
18
Meaning Sheik Mohammed and myself.
19
Did you have any conversations with -- can you estimate
20
for us when you think this happened, when Rutherford flew into
21
a rage with this?
22
23
January.
24
Of 2007?
25
2007, yes.
January, February, March; when?
It would be easily the beginning of February, the end of
GR
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2825
After that time period, did you have any further
conversations with Rutherford about this plot?
No.
What about Nero, did you have a falling out with Nero?
Yes.
Dawood?
Yes.
Did you have a personal disagreement with him?
That's correct.
10
Was there also something plot related?

Was he upset about what was going on with the plot?
11
12
Yes.
13
What was that problem?
14
Well, he had mentioned, Sheik Dawood mentioned that he
15
wanted to travel to Trinidad with Abdel Nur and Talib
16
Rutherford did not want to send him with Abdel Nur.
17
to send Abdel Nur by himself.
18
He want
On that note, there was a little discrepancy because
19
Sheik Dawood mentioned that if Abdel Nur was sent to Trinidad
20
and by any chance he was to learn through Abu Bakr that the
21
Shukrijumah was entering in that, it would be a fair chance
22
that they will -- that Shukrijumah will move from Trinidad
23
before actually he can be told about the plot and one of the
24
reasons why Sheik Dawood wanted to go alone with Abdel Nur.
25
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2826
CONTINUING DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. JONES:
am I correct?
That's correct.
It's a little confusing.
you to take the video off Rutherford's computer?
That's correct.
Then you said the FBI also wants it off the computer; is
When that fell apart, that was also a cause of concern;
Earlier you said Mohammed wants
10
that correct?
11
That's correct.
12
Were you told why?
13
Yes, it was a concern of national security that the video
14
was actually floating around in the hands of these
15
individuals.
16
17
as you said, got very upset?
18
Yes.
19
Did you have any conversations with Mr. Defreitas about
20
who might be able to invest in a plot?
21
Yes.
22
What did Mr. Defreitas say about that?
23
Well --
24
please.
25
Did you have conversations after Rutherford's reaction,
Sure.
please repeat the beginning of the question,
You mentioned that Rutherford got upset, correct?
SS
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2827
Yes.
Did Defreitas tell you anything about who he thought
might be able to invest in this plot when Rutherford left?
Yes.
Who?
He said he was very acquainted with Abdel Nur at the
time.
also went ahead, actually met with other potential individuals
that had some sort of connections.
He will continue to deal with him in the instance.
He
10
Were you a party to any of those meetings?
11
Yes.
12
Who were some of the people that you met with or that you
13
were present for when Defreitas met with regarding the plot?
14
15
by the name of Abdul Kadir, which was a taxi driver, who had
16
expressed some sort of animosity against the states, opened
17
the doors for Mohammed to present the plot to him.
Right after the fallout, we had spoken to an individual
Also, he presented the plot to another individual by
18
19
the name of Shafiq.
20
Shafiq?
21
Yes.
22
Who is that?
23
That individual has expressed he was attending to a
24
mosque, a place of prayer.
25
had some sort of ties with Al Qaeda at the time.
SS
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There was a known individual who
CM
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2828
Also, right after, in those approaches,
1
2
Sheik Mohammed approached an individual by the name of
Abdul Wahab.
Who is Abdul Wahab?
Abdul Wahab is an individual that lived in Guyana and
that he had lived in Suriname at the same time when Sheik
Dawood was there and they studied under the same or similar
teachers of Islam.
Did the people you just mentioned, Abdul Kadir, different
10
from the defendant; is that correct?
11
Yes.
12
Kadir, Shafiq, Wahab.
13
he believed any of those people have ties to terrorist groups?
14
Yes.
15
Who?
16
By Sheik Dawood mentioning before of that place of prayer
17
Diamond Mosque (ph), he mentioned the teacher there has ties
18
with Al Qaeda.
19
part of it, he felt it was a great asset to actually --
20
Who?
21
Defreitas or Sheik Mohammed.
22
asset to actually reach out to this individual that had these
23
ties with Al Qaeda.
Did Mr. Defreitas tell you whether
When Shafiq mentioned he knew this mosque, was
He had felt it was a great
24
Then when he spoke to Abdul Wahab about the whole
25
story, the fallout we had with Shukrijumah and Sheik Dawood
SS
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2829
Masood, he mentioned "Why you never mentioned this to me
before?"
this matter and I will have to contact some of my contacts."
to Abdul Wahab?
Yes.
Were you there when it happened?
Yes.
Who presented it to him?
10
Sheik Mohammed did.
11
You said Wahab responded "You should have come to me
12
sooner;" is that correct?
13
That's correct.
14
He needed the delay, you testified, needed some time?
15
Yes.
16
To do what?
17
He was going to reach out to his contacts.
18
he had a few contacts he needed to reach out.
19
contacts failed, then he would actually seek out to where his
20
teachers come from in Suriname, also had contacts as well.
21
Have you ever met any of Abdul Wahab's contacts?
22
That's correct.
23
Who did you meet?
24
Abdul Kadir.
25
Is that the defendant?
He said "I will get definitely get back to you on
Do you know if the plot for the airport was ever resented
SS
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He mentioned
Any of those
CSR
2830
Yes.
Going back for a second, at this point?
you mentioned Rutherford had dropped out of the plot; is that
correct?
Yes.
Were Long Hair, Ponytail, that person was still involved?
Well, he had attended fewer meetings.
didn't feel at ease with him.
too much, which had made Long Hair to attend less and less to
February 2007,
Sheik Mohammed
He didn't want to deal with him
10
the meetings.
11
12
told you he had some connections, could talk to him about the
13
plot?
14
Yes.
15
You said you met one of the connections, Defendant Kadir?
16
Yes.
17
When did you first meet Abdul Kadir?
18
The first time I met Abdul Kadir, I was walking in
19
Georgetown, Guyana.
20
parliament.
21
Parliament?
22
Right near the parliament area.
23
Abdul Nur at the time, around the area, around the time when I
24
got robbed the first time and I was presented to him.
25
exchanged greetings with him.
Let's go back.
SS
You just finished testifying Abdul Wahab
We randomly saw each other right near
OCR
I was walking with
I got a card from him stating
CM
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2831
his name.
He said "I'm a counselor here in Guyana." We
welcome you to Guyana, hope you have a good stay.
Linden.
Where is that?
Close to the interior.
Defendant Kadir was walking with Abdel Nur?
I didn't say that.
into him near parliament one day.
He lived in
I said walking with Abdul Nur, ran
Abdul Nur is the one who is going to Trinidad to talk to
10
Abu Bakr?
11
That's correct.
12
Did it appear to you Defendant Kadir and Abdul Nur knew
13
each other at all?
14
That's correct.
15
Why do you say that?
16
Because it was mentioned to me later on by Kadir he
17
actually know him, also revealed something I did not know
18
about Abdul Nur that allowed me to understand they knew each
19
other very well.
20
Meaning what?
21
That he was a Shiite Muslim.
22
You mentioned that you eventually met Mr. Kadir in
23
connection with Abdul Wahab and the plot; is that right?
24
That's correct.
25
Where did that meeting take place?
SS
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2832
It took place in Linden, Abdul Kadir's house.
You went to the defendant's house?
Yes.
Who were you with for this meeting?
It was Abdul Wahab, Sheik Mohammed and myself.
You, Wahab and defendant Defreitas --
Abdul Kadir?
Of course.
Who did most of the talking during this meeting?
10
At first when we got into this house, Abdul Wahab did the
11
beginning of the talk and Sheik Mohammed did the following of
12
the talking.
13
14
anyone tell him the plot to attack JFK Airport?
15
Yes.
16
Who did the talking about that?
17
Sheik Mohammed did.
18
The Defendant Defreitas?
19
Yes.
20
Were you wearing a wire during that meeting?
21
No.
22
Why not?
23
I was concerned of safety at that time.
24
Did you show or did the group show Abdul Kadir anything
25
in connection with the plot?
sorry, four, and
During your meeting with Abdul Kadir in Linden, did
SS
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2833
Yes.
What did you show him?
We carried the video, the video of the JFK Airport to his
home.
Did it work?
Yes.
Did you play it with the full volume?
No, I didn't.
Why not?
10
I was instructed by Sheik Mohammed not to.
11
By Sheik Mohammed.
I proceeded to install it in his computer to display.
After you played some of the video, what, if
12
13
anything, did the defendant Kadir have to say about it?
14
15
anything else in our possession besides the video.
16
What did you say?
17
We said no.
18
Did he have any suggestions what you needed?
19
Yes, he mentioned if we had any blueprints or if we had
20
access --
21
can get blueprints for you."
22
Meaning blueprints, schematics of the airport?
23
Yes.
24
What else did Mr. Kadir say you should get?
25
He mentioned testify Google Earth, said if we knew what
He watched the video.
He said --
he asked us if we had
Sheik Mohammed said "We don't have blueprints but I
SS
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2834
was the Google Earth.
Sheik Mohammed said "No, I don't know
what is that."
the computer.
Earth came up but at that moment he said "You won't be able to
see much because my internet is down, but I was looking
recently on it.
from Guyana."
internet connection at this meeting?
He said to close the video and he pointed to

He said hit on this icon and I did.
The Google
You may see some still shots or something
Were you able to access Google Earth on line with the
10
At this meeting we couldn't access the whole effect of
11
Google Earth.
12
13
about it?
14
15
"When you get back, you download the Google Earth in your
16
computer, see if you can see these images there," meaning JFK
17
images.
18
19
Google Earth photographs?
20
21
for the person to understand --
What from anything did defendant Kadir suggested you do
He said -- asked me if had I a computer.
Did Defendant Kadir tell you why you needed blueprints or
Because in order to present a plot like this to anyone,
22
MS. MESSINA:
23
THE COURT:
24
25
I said yes.
Objection, Judge.
We need the reporter at side bar.
(Side bar.)
THE COURT:
SS
Is there some objection?
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
1
MS. MESSINA:
2835
This is similar to his prior
objection, talking about sleeper cells.
question --
Abdul Kadir said to him why they need blueprints, whether he's
speaking in general or as an expert why he generally needs
blueprints in order to pull off some kind of plot.
rather by his answers.
MR. JONES:
I'm concerned by the
He's talking about what
My question was careful.
Did
Defendant Kadir telephone you why he thought you needed the
blueprints or Google?
That's what he's answering.
10
THE COURT:
11
(Read back.)
12
THE COURT:
13
Can you read back the question?
Overruled.
we'll do the motion tomorrow.
14
MR. MILLER:
15
THE COURT:
Let's go until 5:30, then
We'll come in earlier.
9:00 o'clock?
Yes.
I'll tell the jury to come back
16
at 10:00 o'clock so they're not hanging around while we're
17
doing stuff.
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
1
(Open court.)
THE COURT:
2836
The objection is overruled.
Would you
like to have the last question read back?
MR. JONES:
I could rephrase it.
THE COURT:
Please.
Mr. Francis, I'll ask you again.
Did the defendant Abdul
Kadir tell you why you needed to get blueprints or Google
images of John F. Kennedy Airport?
Yes.
10
What did he tell you about that?
11
Sheik Mohammed mentioned his knowledge and he mentioned
12
the tanks, the tower and the roads.
13
pipelines.
With the Google Earth he couldn't see the
14
pipelines.
They're underneath the ground with the
15
Google Earth.
16
understand the routes and he could understand where the tanks
17
are, the towers and all the other schematics.
18
19
Google Earth images.
20
21
the surface are exactly located, how is actually the
22
configuration of the airport.
23
presented to, they're able to understand what we're talking
24
about in regards to the JFK Airport and the routes to get in
25
and out as well.
He mentioned the
He could see the street level so he could
That's what Defendant Kadir told you he wants you to get

For what purpose?
For the purpose of understanding where the landmarks on
SS
OCR
The people that this matter is
CM
CRR
CSR
2837
You needed to get more information; is that correct?
That's correct.
After Abdul Wahab and Defendant Defreitas told
Defendant Kadir about this plot, did he kick you out of the
house?
No.
"Don't talk to me ever again."?
How did he react?
He said he would touch base with his contacts.
He will
10
get back to us within a two-week duration.
11
Get in touch with his contacts for what purpose?
12
To get information from them to see what kind of interest
13
they have in the plot.
14
15
Defendant Kadir was going to reach out to his connections
16
about the possible attack?
17
He was very happy.
18
Did anyone mention during this meeting with these two
19
defendants who might be able to help get money or authority to
20
actually conduct a bombing attack in the United States?
21
22
conversation, he had mentioned we have come to him; that
23
Defreitas or Sheik Mohammed and I have come with this idea of
24
the JFK and that he had mentioned if Abdul Kadir was to fail
25
with his connections, he would go to his other connections.
How did Defendant Defreitas react when he heard
Yes, when Abdul Wahab spoke at the beginning of the
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2838
That's the reason he brought it to him.
On that regard, Abdul
Kadir said "I would reach out too my connections which are in
Venezuela and Iran.
I'll get back to you with it."
Mr. Kadir said his connections were in what countries?
Venezuela as well as Iran.
Did the name Abdul Nur come up during this meeting?
Yes.
Did Abdul Kadir say he knew Abdul Nur?
10
Yes.
11
explained to Abdul Kadir of the plot, he also mentioned about
12
the whole story.
13
plot has been presented to other people and also he mentioned
14
names, Sheik Rutherford, also mentioned Sheik Dawood, Long
15
Hair, mentioned Abdul Nur.
16
Abdul Nur was going to reach out to Abu Bakr.
17
one else could have been a better choice.
18
Let me stop you there.
19
Kadir said he was the right choice to meet Abu Bakr for
20
the matters of looking for Shukrijumah.
21
of the brother and the brother was a Shiite.
22
What brother?
23
Meaning Abdel Nur.
24
Were there any discussions at this meeting about changing
25
the code name of the attack?
When I get the response in two weeks,
As I mentioned earlier, when Sheik Mohammed
SS
He wanted Abdul Kadir to be aware that this
OCR
When he mentioned Abdul Nur,

He said that no
Who said Nur was a good choice?
CM
CRR
He also said he knew
CSR
2839
Yes, based that he was aware --
Who?
Abdul Kadir was aware of the introduction of the JFK plot
to different individuals.
safety of actually talking about a plot with the same names
these individuals has chosen.
name of it.
Did he suggest a new name for the group?
That's correct.
10
What was the new name going to be?
11
He mentioned Chicken and the Eggs.
12
Chicken and the Eggs?
13
Yes.
14
What else did he say?
15
He also mentioned Chicken Farm, Chicken Hatchery, Chicken
16
Feed.
17
code names for different activities that would reveal the
18
plot.
19
20
that right?
21
Yes.
22
The Chicken Farm, what was that supposed to refer to?
23
To JFK Airport.
24
The airport as a whole?
25
Yes.
So, he was concerned about the
So, he decided to change the
There was different names mentioned at the meeting as
Now there's going to be this whole new terminology; is
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2840
What were the Eggs going to be?
The Chicken meaning the airplanes and the Eggs meaning
the tanks.
you would use to talk about over the phone?
That is correct.
Was there any discussion during this meeting about what
time of day an attack at JFK should take place?
Yes.
10
Did Defendant Kadir have anything to say about that?
11
Yes.
12
Sheik Mohammed, that the best shifts were nighttime or early
13
morning because it would be less Muslims or less women or less
14
children involved in the airport, he said "Good, good, good,
15
that's it."
16
17
18
Were there related terms that are similar to that that
Actually when it was mentioned to him by
He didn't say anything else.
MR. JONES:
Your Honor, this may be a good time to
break for the day.

THE COURT:
Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to
19
break for today.
We're going to ask you to come back here
20
tomorrow at 10:00 o'clock in the morning.
21
matters to address with counsel.
22
while we are doing that because your time, we recognize, is
23
quite precious.
I have a few legal
I don't want to keep you
24
Remember not to discuss the case among yourselves,
25
not to form or draw any conclusions about what you have seen
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2841
and heard here over the past few days.
You cannot discuss the
case, not among yourselves, anyone else, family members,
friends, coworkers.
You're not to look at anything, read or listen to
4
5
anything that might be reported about this case over any kind
of media.
that might be connected with this case that might be reported
in any kind of media.
You may not do any kind of research about anything
Rest up.
9
10
tomorrow.
11
tomorrow.
We're going to have another full day
We will see you, as I said, at 10:00 o'clock
12
Have a nice evening.
13
(Jury leaves courtroom.)
14
THE COURT:
15
You can all be
seated.
Sir, you're excused for the day.
16
17
The jury has left.
We need you back
here at 10:00 o'clock also.
18
THE WITNESS:
19
THE COURT:
Thank you.
Tomorrow morning I'll need the
20
attorneys and the defendants back here at 9:00 o'clock in the
21
morning.
22
We'll address the CIPA issue.

MR. MILLER:
One quick thing we discussed earlier.
23
The media had requested copies of entered exhibits.
24
make sure we keep possession of the exhibits for now, whether
25
your Honor would approve that.
SS
OCR
CM
I want to
We didn't want to do that
CRR
CSR
1
2842
until your Honor thought it was appropriate to do.

THE COURT:
With respect to the exhibits that are
in evidence, certainly I don't see any reason why copies
cannot be provided to the media.
MS. WHALEN:
are you talking about the transcripts or actual video?
MR. MILLER:
MS. WHALEN:
When you're talking about exhibits,
Videos.
I'm not trying to limit them.
witness is still on the stand.
This
He's still going to be
10
cross-examined about these things.
11
spillover with the jury.
12
sure none of this is going out on the TV but I wanted to
13
confirm that.
MR. MILLER:
14
15
I know you admonished them.
I was not aware of authority.
time I looked for authority.

THE COURT:
16
I'm worried about media

I'm
One
I wasn't able to find any.
I agree.
I hope the media exercises
17
some discretion knowing this witness is still on the witness
18
stand.
19
(Continued on next page).
20
21
22
23
24
25
SS
OCR
CM
CRR
CSR
2843
MR. NKRUMAH:
Your Honor, I agree with Ms. Whalen.
Is it possible that the media can have the exhibits after the
complete examination of Mr. Francis?
about if it does somehow get to the television media.

THE COURT:
We're just concerned
Let me ask you this:
What does it
matter if it's during or after the witness testifies?
there's media spillover, this trial is going to continue for
another few weeks.

I think we'd have bigger problems if the jurors
9
10
If
disobeyed the Court's admonition.

So far, I think they have been in keeping with it.
11
12
They nod their heads.
They seem to understand how important
13
it is.
14
jurors.
15
stand or later, I think the effect would be the same.
To a certain degree, we have to rely on their oaths as

Whether we do it now while the witness is on the
MS. WHALEN:
16
Your Honor, now that I think about it,
17
I think you're right, and I was sort of conflating two things,
18
concerned about the witness seeing something.
19
these exhibits went in through the witness.
20
tainted.
THE COURT:
21
stay away from all media.
23
witness.
MS. WHALEN:
25
issues.
He won't be
The government can tell the witness to
22
24
But clearly,
I'm not so concerned about the
In my mind, I had confused the two
The exhibits, once they are in, they are going to be
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2844
1
seen, and the trial will continue, and I'll withdraw my
objection about that.
already seen the exhibits.
I don't think he could be tainted
by anything that came out.
I'm not trying to infringe on
defendant Kadir, but I'll withdraw my objection.
With respect to this witness, he has
THE COURT:
(Case adjourned to Wednesday, July 7, 2010, at 9:00
All right.
a.m.)
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ANTHONY M. MANCUSO,
CSR
2845
INDEX
1
2
WITNESS:
PAGE:
3
S T E V E N
F R A N C I S
DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. JONES
BY MR. JONES:
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
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*****
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51 through 61
212 and 213
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*****
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(English) Transcript of Trial - United States of America V Russell Defreitas, Abdul Kadir - 7-6-2010

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(English) Transcript of Trial - United States of America V Russell Defreitas, Abdul Kadir - 7-6-2010

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2698

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

For the Government:

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript

(In open court; jury not present.)

Jason Jones, Marshall

Miller, Berit Berger and Zainab Ahmad, and we're joined at

counsel table by Special Agent Robert Adonizio.

Good morning to all of you.

For Mr. Defreitas?

Defenders by Mildred Whalen and Len Kamdang.

Good morning, your Honor.

For Mr. Kadir?

Kafahni Nkrumah and

Toni Messina for Mr. Kadir.

I noticed over the weekend there were

two defense motions that were filed with the Court.

just received them this morning.

not had a chance to respond to them.

later on, after lunch.

time to respond in writing.

I know the government has

I don't know if the government wants

One is a motion for an evidentiary hearing pursuant

to CIPA relating to the October 2006 memo, and the other

relates to a portion of a tape-recorded conversation that the

government initially sought to introduce, but that it decided

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

Your Honor, if I may, on the latter?

That might be moot.

The government has agreed to put that ID

41, Session 1 into evidence in its case in chief in its

entirety, and to moot that issue for defense counsel for

That is ID 41, Session 1.

The only difference on that CD,

Ms. Whalen and I talked about it over the weekend.

have Mr. Francis's initials on it, because he didn't listen to

the whole CD over the weekend.

any objection to it coming in.

I don't think there would be

I believe Ms. Whalen will consent to that.

Yes, your Honor.

As to the CIPA hearing, does the

government want to respond in writing?

Your Honor, just for purposes of moving

things along, I think we would be happy to respond orally, if

your Honor would approve of that.

Is there any need to address it before 5:00 o'clock,

so that we don't delay the jury at all?

I don't believe so.

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

spend some time thinking about it.

When I read CIPA, I believe the

statute takes more of an incremental approach for actual

discovery than to seek admission of the documents.

think the way this is headed, we would want to seek admission

of the document in some way.

sense to sort of expedite the process and deal with all of

So, we both agreed it would make

I didn't address those in the request for the

is prepared to respond, and we would be, as well.

your Honor's preparation, since we are talking about those