Melendres # 700 - May 14 2014B Hearing Transcript D.ariz. - 2-07-Cv-02513 - 700

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 700 Filed 05/14/14 Page 1 of 70
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
Plaintiffs,
6
7
8
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
vs.
Joseph M. Arpaio, et al.,
Defendants.
CV 07-2513-PHX-GMS
S
Phoenix, Arizona
na
May 14, 2014
10:02 a.m.
OG
10
SEALED PROCEEDINGS
Manuel de Jesus Ortega

Melendres, et al.,
BO
.C
OM
11
EF
12
13
TH
14
REPORTER'S
OF PROCEEDINGS
ER'S
ER
S TRANSCRIPT
TRANS
AN
15
BEFORE
THE HONORABLE
G. MURRAY SNOW
FOR TH
FORE
HO
OF
16
(10 O'clock
Status Conference, Pages 35-104)
'clock
clock a.m.
a.m
.
17
SEALED PROCEEDINGS
18
ND
19
20
IE
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
Court Reporter:
Co
35
Gary Moll
401 W. Washington Street, SPC #38
Phoenix, Arizona 85003
(602) 322-7263
Proceedings taken by stenographic court reporter

Transcript prepared by computer-aided transcription

CV07-2513, Melendres v. Arpaio, 5/14/14 Status Conference 36
A P P E A R A N C E S
1
2
4
5
6
7
Cecillia D. Wang, Esq.

sq.
sq
.
AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES
BERTIES
ERTIES UNION
UNI
FOUNDATION
Director
Immigrants' Rights Project
Pr
Proj
39 Drumm Street
treet
reet
San Francisco,
94111
cisco, California
cisco
Cali
al
(415) 343-0775
343
43-0775
0775
BO
8
9
10
12
For the Defendants:
13
TH
14
18
ND
19
17
OF
15
16
20
IE
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
Timothy
J.
Esq.
mothy
othy J
. Casey,
Ca
SCHMITT,
SMYTH,
CHMITT, SCHNECK,
CHMITT
SCH
CASEY & EV
EVEN, P.C.
E
1221 E
E.
. Osborn Road
Suite 105
Phoenix,
Arizona 85014-5540
Phoe
oe
(602)
277-7000
(6
EF
11
Daniel J. Pochoda, Esq.

AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES
FOUNDATION OF ARIZONA
77 E. Columbus Avenue
Suite 205
(602) 650-1854
.C
OM
For the Plaintiffs:
OG
Thomas P. Liddy
Deputy County Attorney
MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
Civil Services Division
222 N. Central Avenue
Suite 1100
(602) 372-2098

P R O C E E D I N G S
1
2
THE COURT:
Please be seated.
THE CLERK:
This is civil case 07-2513, Melendres

v.
s v
.
Arpaio, on for status conference.
10:02:57
Counsel, please announce.
MR. POCHODA:
Dan Pochoda, ACLU of Arizona,

izona,
izona
, for
MS. WANG:
Cecillia Wang of the

ACLU
e AC
ACL
LU for
or the
Good morning again, Your

ur
r Honor.
Honor
OG
plaintiffs.
BO
plaintiff.
9
10
.C
OM
THE COURT:
Good morning.
ng.
ng
.
12
MR. CASEY:
Good morning,
rning,
rning
, Your Honor.
EF
11
Tim Casey, and
with me is co-counsel Tom

m Liddy of the Maricopa County
14
Attorney's Office.
TH
13
15
Obviously,
y, with
ith us you recognize some of the faces:
Jerry Sheridan,
Arpaio.
n, Jose
Joseph A
OF
16
17
CAPTAIN
A TAIN
AI HOLMES:
HOLM
O
18
MR.
MR
R. CASEY:
C E
19
ND
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
CAPT
Ken Holmes.
SERGEANT BENTZEL:
IE
21
FR
24
25
Ken, is it?
Ken Holmes --
MR. CASEY:
M
2
23
10:03:19
Yes.
20
22
10:03:10
-- from Internal Affairs.
10:03:28
Sergeant Jason Bentzel, also from
Internal Affairs.
In
MR. CASEY:
And I think that will be it who may be
speaking to you, and I turn it over to you, Your Honor.

THE COURT:
All right.
I'd like to see the parties
10:03:40

alt sidebar, please.
(Bench conference on the record.)
THE COURT:
Everybody knows our sidebar
.C
OM
All right.
mike is a little not sensitive enough, so when you speak,
please make sure you get close.
10:04:04
Ms. Wang, Mr. Pochoda, there are matters that have
come to my attention through the monitor, items

s disclosed by
the MCSO to the monitor in good faith -MR. POCHODA:

THE COURT:
10
Um-hum.
-- that it seems
involve an ongoing,
ms to me in
i
OG
BO
and perhaps now areas of new investigation

vestigation
estigatio that in order to
12
preserve evidence must be kept

pt confidential.
conf
confiden
EF
11
That being said,

they relate directly to this
, because t
13
lawsuit, as well as, perhaps

perhaps, to
t many other collateral
15
things --
TH
14
MR. POCHODA
POCHODA:
OF
16
THE
H COURT:
CO
COURT
:
17
10:04:40
Um-hum.
U
-- and who knows what, but because they
relate to
o this lawsuit, I just do not feel comfortable
19
proceeding
without plaintiffs being aware of the nature of what
oceeding wi
20
you have found.

f
ND
18
IE
21
FR
22
10:04:19
And I've reviewed the order.
10:04:50
I can give you the --
the actual paragraph numbers that I think are applicable.

th
But
2
23
it would be my recommendation that I receive a motion to put
24
this hearing under seal, and whoever the other side is can
25
object if they want.
10:05:06

Do I have such a motion?
MR. CASEY:
To put it under seal?
THE COURT:
Yes.
MR. CASEY:
Yes.
.C
OM
I'm moving on behalf of the
defendants to put this under seal for the basis, Your Honor
Honor,
no ,
that while Charley Armendariz has committed suicide,

e, is no
longer subject to criminal charges, this is a criminal ongoing

on
investigation that may lead to other MCSO personnel,

personnel
erson
, also
involving witnesses, evidence potential tampering,

tampering obstruction,
BO
things like that.
And so even though

gh Charley is no longer --
11
Charley Armendariz is no longer subject

to
subje
t administrative
12
penalties or criminal sanctions,

may lead -- is a criminal
ons, this
ons
th
m
13
investigation that could lead

anywhere.
ead anywh
And
nd what I would propose to say to
TH
Yeah.
Yeah
Yea
.
the public simply is

this matter involves what
i that
hat
t because
b
be
16
I -- or may involve
nvolve what I have defined in the order as a
17
special operation,
and "special operation" actually refers to
pe ation
ti , an
18
patrol activities
involving traffic stops.
activit
ND
S
19
MS WANG:
MS.
20
THE COURT:
T
Um-hum.
But it's my understanding that some of the
10:06:07
IE
material definitely involves traffic stops here.

materi
mater
Um-hum.
FR
MR. POCHODA:
24
if I just say this pertains to a special operation as defined
25
by the order and so the Court is going to put this hearing --
2
23
10:05:50
OF
15
22
10:05:32
EF
THE COURT:
14
OG
10
21
10:05:14
THE COURT:
So I don't think I'm misstating the facts
10:06:16

the Court has moved and is -- it has been moved and the Court
has granted the motion that this hearing is under seal until
further order of the Court.
MS. WANG:
Um-hum.
MR. CASEY:
Yes.
.C
OM
I also want to put on the record

ecord
o
that I had some traveling yesterday, so I wasn't able

ble to
communicate with anyone in this hearing today, but I did,

did right
before this hearing started, speak with plaintiffs'

aintiffs
intif ' counsel
co
Cecillia Wang and Dan Pochoda and invited

to the
ed them
them, subject
s
su
BO
Court's permission, to be in this room

oom
om during this presentation
11
on behalf of my clients, the MCSO,

O, because
becaus the monitor is also
12
here.
OG
10
EF
Well,
that, because -- I
l, I appreciate
apprec
appreciate that sign of good

and I clearly would have
ood faith,
fa
fai
15
involved you, anyway,

I'm
wa
way
but
t I
' glad you're --
TH
14
MR. CASEY:
CASEY:
10:07:00
But I wanted you to know that I appreciate
OF
16
the Court's
but it was a -- as counsel, we thought
s position,
position
ositio
18
they needed
eeded
ded to be here.
17
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. CASEY:
M
I'm glad they're here.
ND
19
20
THE COURT:
10:07:09
All right.
2
23
(Bench conference concluded.)
24
THE COURT:
25
We never did
invite them so I'm glad they're here.

invit
IE
FR
22
10:06:47
It is important that everyone

everyon be aware of it.
THE COURT:
13
21
10:06:28
All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, I have
received a motion at sidebar to put this hearing under seal.
10:07:29

There is a substantial amount of case law that requires
virtually everything that we do be done in public.
occasion, however, there are reasons that justify putting a
matter under seal.
order pertain to special operations by the Maricopa County

ounty
ty
Sheriff's Office, both anticipated and ongoing special

cial
operations.
.C
OM
One of those reasons I set forth in my

y
10:07:50
After having received the explanation,

tion
ion,
, there
r is no
BO
8
9
On
objection by either party to proceeding under seal

seal,
and so I
ea
will -- I am going to grant the motion,
to anybody
ion
on,
, subject
subje
subjec
11
making an objection who may have one in the

audience.
t
OG
10
Is there any such objection?

bjectio ?
bjection
13
Okay.
EF
12
10:08:05
Hearing none,
none
ne,
, I am going to now put this
hearing under seal and

d it
i will remain under seal only so long
15
as is necessary as
by further order of this Court.
s determined
d ermine
min
16
And so the courtroom

will now be cleared.
urtroom wil
OF
TH
14
10:08:23
Thank you.
(The
is cleared.)
T e courtroom
court
courtro
17
MR.
MR
R. CASEY:
C E
18
THE COURT:
Just one moment, please, Mr. Casey.
All right.
A
I recognize the United States marshals in
ND
19
20
Your Honor, I --
room; I recognize my clerk staff; I recognize the members

the ro
th
r
22
of the MCSO that were introduced to me.
FR
IE
21
10:09:13
2
23
I don't know who three people who weren't introduced
24
to me are, so I want them introduced to me or I want defendants
25
to avow that they're MCSO personnel.
10:09:29

MR. CASEY:
Christine Stutz is a Maricopa
county attorney, works with Tom Liddy, who has been working
with the monitor and the MCSO on HR employment issues, trying
to make sure things are in compliance.
Angelo, what is your last name?
SERGEANT CALDERONE:
MR. CASEY:
And Angelo Calderone works

s with the MCSO
BO
and is with the sheriff.

And I apologize --
10:09:48
10
MR. HEGSTROM:
11
MR. CASEY:
Chris Hegstrom.
rom.
rom
OG
Calderone.
.C
OM
Chris is also
the
MCSO, and Chris is
so with
w
t
in media?
He's in media relations,

ations, and he -- I just wanted to
ations
13
put on the record that even

ven
n though he's with media relations,
14
what happens here does

s not go
g to
t the media.
TH
EF
12
15
And then I think

hink
k I introduced everyone else?
16
THE COURT
COURT:
:
OF
Yes.
Yes
18
and authorized
thorized
horized by my order to be here.
ND
S
persons in the
he
e back
k of the room are all United States Marshals
have any question about anybody else in

Do plaintiffs
p
19
the room
room?
?
IE
21
FR
22
10:10:17
I will indicate that the four
17
20
10:10:01
MS. WANG:
10:10:32
I don't think we heard what Mr. Calderone's
position is at the MCSO.

po
2
23
MR. CASEY:
He is the head of the personal security
24
for the sheriff, Your Honor.
25
MS. WANG:
Thank you.
10:10:42

THE COURT:
Okay.
MR. CASEY:
Goes wherever the sheriff goes.
THE COURT:
Do the defendants have any questions about

ut
Do the --
anybody else in the room?
We need to have Chris's last name.
MR. HEGSTROM:
MR. CASEY:
I have no other questions.

ions
ons.
.
My
y
BO
10
H-e-g-s-t-r-o-m
in
-rr-o-m as
s i
Mary.
8
9
Chris Hegstrom.
10:10:54
understanding is that these are your law

law
w -- your capable
c
clerks.
OG
.C
OM
THE COURT:
12
We also have Chief Martinez

-Martine -
13
MR. CASEY:
Yes.
14
THE COURT:
-Chief
Warshaw in the room.
- and
nd Chie
hi
15
MR. CASEY:
Y:
Yes.
es.
17
TH
THE
H COURT:
CO
COURT
:
All right.
right.
All r
ri
h
I became aware yesterday through
disclosures
made by the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office -sclosures
closures m
20
specifically, I believe, Chief Deputy Sheridan to the

specifical
21
monitor -- of some extensive information that I believe

monito
monit
22
requires this Court to address it, address on the record, and I

re
FR
19
2
23
want to have an explanation of that evidence made available so
24
all parties can hear it pursuant to the terms of the order.
25
10:11:14
Your Honor.
IE
ND
S
18
No
N objections from the defendants,
OF
16
Oh, they're more tha

than capable.
EF
11
10:11:08
I will then have -- I want to explore it with the
10:11:28
10:11:53

parties to make sure that we are all on the same page, or if we
have objections, that I hear what they are and can rule on
them.
proceed to the extent that I have authority to do so.
.C
OM
And I want to make it clear how I expect the parties to

o
And I will have questions for the parties.
appreciate, Sheriff Arpaio, you being here.
I may have
questions for you.
answers and you may need to defer to Deputy

y Chief
Chie Sheridan.
Sher
h
BO
I realize that you may not have all

the
al t
Deputy Chief Sheridan -- or Chief

ief Deputy Sheridan, I'm
sorry, you may also not have all the

e answers.
answers.
11
place you under oath unless there's

specific reason to do
e's some
e sp
12
so.
13
any questions that I may have

ave that aren't covered by a
14
presentation that I anticipate

nticipate you intend to give us,
15
Mr. Casey.
16
use the monitor

courtroom.
or of the
t
c
OG
10
I'm not going to
EF
TH
OF
The only
nl reason
nly
eason
son I say that is because you wanted to
We also have, my understanding is
19
the
what you showed me on Monday.
e clip
cl
of w
20
learned this as counsel, a lot of us learned it on Monday

just learn
21
afternoon at a briefing, and then I headed out of town to pick

aftern
after
22
up my son at Baylor, back at 2:30 this morning.
IE
ND
to answer
wer
r your questions.
So we have -- we
preface that is that Mr. Liddy capably told me that I may need
24
to share with you some background about what was found -That would be good.
10:13:16
The reason I
2
23
THE COURT:
10:12:43
Your Honor, yes, I mean, we are prepared
18
FR
10:12:30
I would appreciate, however,

best effort at answering
ever, your
ever
y
MR.
R CASEY:
CA
CASEY
:
17
25
10:12:10
10:13:36

MR. CASEY:
-- and I'm going to tell you, I'm going
off of my memory, which is fatigued, so they may have to get
it, but my understanding is that during the course of this, you

ou
know, Mr. Armendariz has committed, unfortunately, suicide,

e, God
G
rest his soul, but there is now still ongoing criminal
investigation, and during the course of the investigation

igatio it
igation
was discovered that there are --
.C
OM
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
There's about 9
900
hours.
00 hours
hour
about 540 disks.

MR. CASEY:
Okay.
12
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
13
MR. CASEY:
540 disks.
disk .
disks
900?
There's
10:14:11
500
500 hours?
More
900.
re like about
abo
EF
11
I'm
I'
I
m sorry.
sorr
orr
Of traffic stops
conducted by Charley Ramon Armendariz.

Arme
Armen
TH
14
5,000 hours of video

video?
OG
10
Is it 2500 hours?
BO
It appears
rs that
hat he has both a dash cam; it appears
15
that he may have

of camera mounted to the frames of
ave some
som type
ty
17
his glasses,
es so what
a you see on the screen is what he is
18
looking
at.
g at
a
.
19
afternoon,
believe it was two of them that I remember, and if
ternoon
ernoon,
, I b
20
I remember correctly, the two clips were done in May of 2013 if
21
legend on the lower right of the screen is accurate.

the le
th
l
I saw clips presented to me by my client on Monday
ND
IE
FR
10:14:27
OF
16
22
10:13:54
10:14:58
They show conduct of Charley Ramon Armendariz dealing
2
23
with one man in one image, would appear to be a Caucasian male.
24
The second image was a different traffic stop dealing with what
25
appear to be two Caucasians, one female, one male.
And they
10:15:27

will be self-explanatory, but that is there for the Court to
evaluate.
.C
OM
We discussed with, obviously without waiving any
3
4
privilege, we knew that the monitor was coming in on the
following day, which was yesterday, needed to brief him

m on
that.
I can tell you is that we are, as an organization,

ion,
ion
, the MCSO
MC
Internal Affairs is doing, as I understand it,

it, two primary
pri
p
things.
BO
What effect this has on this case, do not know,

what
now, but
now
b
wh
They're quickly reviewing the huge volume

volum of stored
data that no one knew existed.
It appears th
that these -- and
tha
11
we're trying to confirm this, that

the camera that
at at least
ea
12
appears to be part of the eyeglasses

for Ramon Armendariz may
eglasse fo
eglasses
13
have been a personal purchase.

chase
ase.
.
14
that was done; when it

t started
started;
; why he recorded it; why it
15
wasn't logged into

of some sort; why there was
o MCSO
M O databases
dat
data
16
no review, comparison
mpariso to CAD data.
mparison
ND
S
those that
internally looked at and say, let's put it
ha the MCSO
C
diplomatically,
these are problems.
plomaticall
20
stops and we're trying to figure out:

problem st
21
complaints that were ever made by these citizens?

compla
compl
22
of those incidences?
IE
19
FR
10:16:42
OF
TH
We're
trying to figure out when
We
We'
'
We
based on the stops, trying to identify
e are
re also,
also
s
17
So on Monday we saw two

Were there any
10:17:10
What became
They have a tremendous volume of other --
2
23
a universe of stops to find out.
24
we're going to find more problems.
25
10:16:11
EF
OG
10
18
10:15:45
Anecdotally, my guess is
The second thing that they can address with you, and I
10:17:36

did not bring my sheet here, is the volume of data of license
plates, the volume of Arizona-issued licenses, the volume of
Mexican-issued licenses, and I apologize for the inconvenience.

e.
(Pause in proceedings.)
MR. CASEY:
.C
OM
Arizona driver's licenses, ID cards,

ds,
, right
gh
now there are 153 that were seized pursuant to the search
searc
warrant at Ramon Armendariz's residence on May 1

1st.
st.
st
Out-of-state licenses, ID cards, there

here are 43 of them.
BO
The one that is -- what we're really looking

oking at
a is
i the Mexican
10
voter IDs, the consular cards, driver's

licenses issued by the
er
r's licens
licen
11
states in Mexico, 180.
OG
EF
six.
Mexican currency, bills,

bills
lls,
, four,
four
our various denominations.
14
Social Security cards from the United

States, 11.
U
15
immigration cards,
, five.
f ve.
16
cards, 26.
17
are five.
18
papers,
49.
, 49
4
.
19
Arizona
out of state, are 104.
izona
zon or ou
TH
13
Credit,
debit, bank and merchant
C
Cr
OF
Vehicle
registrations, something labeled TRP, there
ehicle regi
Foreign
passports,
four.
oreign
re
pa
25
Miscellaneous cards or
And
then actual license plates, either from
A
ND
24
10:19:03
And then Mexico are two.

10:19:33
percentage, maybe all the license plates?

percen
perce
IE
FR
2
23
U.S.
My understanding is that we've done up to a certain

M
20
22
10:18:40
Mexican civil documents,

that's
ents,
ents
, that
t
' just a broad category,
12
21
10:18:17
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
MR. CASEY:
All of the license plates.
And out of the U.S. ones, maybe how many
of them were actually expired?

CAPTAIN HOLMES:
They were all expired.
10:19:48

MR. CASEY:
They were all expired.
THE COURT:
When you say they're all expired, you mean
MR. CASEY:
4
5
They were expir -- well, yeah.
that mean?
Yes.
We understand that they were

wer
expired -MR. CASEY:
This is Ken Holmes.
THE COURT:
Sir?
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
11
THE COURT:
If I could get y
you to
t approach a
And would
ould you mention your first name,
TH
please.
EF
MR. CASEY:
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
HO
HOL
S:
16
Ken Holmes, H-o-l-m-e-s.

o-l
-l-m
-m-e
- -s
17
expired at the
they were taking, but it's still
he
e time
e t
18
information
that is yet to be a hundred percent confirmed.
ation
tion th
IE
ND
S
OF
15
19
20
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
10:20:03
microphone if you're addressing

ing me
me, please.
ple
13
14
Yes.
OG
10
BO
12
What's
s
10:19:56
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
6
7
.C
OM
they're all expired now.
THE COURT:
Thank
you, Your Honor.
T
Th
My name is
10:20:08
Our understanding is that they were
How do you get -- how do you obtain that
understanding?
understand
10:20:24
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
They ran a registration check on all
of the vehi -- at the time that they were expired, and that was
my understanding that they were expired at the time.
THE COURT:
Well, have you been able to place the time
that the license plates were seized by Deputy Armendariz?
10:20:35

CAPTAIN HOLMES:
THE COURT:
That, I don't know yet.
So it's really impossible to -- I mean,
it's possible to know they're expired now, but it isn't
possible to know at this point whether they were expired at the

t
time Deputy Armendariz seized them.

CAPTAIN HOLMES:
THE COURT:
10:20:52
I would agree with that.
.C
OM
And I think I heard Mr. Casey

asey talk
tal about,
a
and I realize that this would be a very intensive

ensiv undertaking,
ensive
unde
n
but trying to match up these seizures with

data, has that
ith CAD dat
da
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
11
12
yes.
OG
effort begun?
It hasn't
begun
n't be
b
gun
un yet but is starting,
THE COURT:
All right
right.
ight.
.
Thank you.
Th
14
Has there been

effort
made to determine the race
en any
ny effo
ff
TH
13
of the persons that

at were
re not
no -- that had American
16
identifications
driver's licenses?
ns or drive
d
17
that we have
but I'm talking about hispanicity.
v to be careful,
ca
OF
15
MR.
MR
R. CASEY:
C E
10:21:16
And by "race," I realize
Particularly, what I understand the
18
question
is we do what we did at trial: looking at Hispanic
esti
estion
is i
20
probability.
surname pr
10:21:37
THE COURT:
That would be fair enough.
22
MR. CASEY:
Okay.
2
23
THE COURT:
-- done that?
24
MR. CASEY:
And my understanding is we are in the
IE
21
FR
ND
19
25
10:21:07
EF
10
BO
Have you --
process, the MCSO is in the process of trying to identify, out
10:21:43

of U.S. I -- or Arizona driver's licenses, out of the 153, what
names appear to be of Hispanic surnames.

But literally, just so the Court is aware, we have a
huge amount of work to do and try to do it as efficiently and

nd
accurately as possible, so we don't -- I don't have that

at
information for you right now.
CHIEF DEPUTY SHERIDAN:
BO
Chief Sheridan.
9
10
I know that -- go
o ahead
ahead,
,
Your Honor,
be able to
onor,
onor
, I might
mi
mig
address how we're going to approach that

that.
.
10:22:21
OG
What we have is two teams

that are going
ms of
o detectives
detec
et
11
to review the data.
We have over 5
500
DVDs with thousands of
00 D
13
hours of information on them

them.
em.
EF
12
With that, we've

detectives from Internal
e've got
go eight
e
ei
TH
14
Affairs under the direction

d
di
ction
ion of Captain Holmes that we have
16
chosen to review
data on the traffic stops.
iew the dat
17
stops on those
h se
e DVDs
s are realtime, and it takes --
OF
15
COURT:
THE
HE C
R

CHIE
ND
19
Those traffic
Yes, sir.
However, and we are
20
to show you a few exemplars if you wish to see them

prepared t
21
today.
today
22
accurate.
ac
IE
10:22:47
Do they have dates on them?
18
FR
10:22:10
Do we have an idea?
.C
OM
10:23:05
We're not sure if date and time stamp on those are

We feel that they're not because -- you'll see one
2
23
today -- it shows, like, 5 o'clock in the afternoon and it's
24
dark out.
25
not really confident of that.
It's probably 2 o'clock in the morning.
So we're
10:23:26

But the reason we chose eight detectives from
Internal Affairs is because we wanted those individuals who are
used to discussing policy, they know policy in and out and have
ve
the same ethical microscope that they will look at the actions
tions
on
of Deputy Armendariz from the same perspective.
team of detectives that are doing that.
.C
OM
10:23:46
So we have
av one
on
Now, more on point to the last question

on of the
th hard
h
copy documents that we were discussing, we have a team

of 10
e
detectives that are doing the research on these

thes individual
i
in
BO
documents along with two crime analysts

ysts and a lieutenant and a
11
few deputies that work at ACTIC, which

with Homeland
whic is linked
l
12
Security and have access to many

databases.
man databa
da
13
try and find somebody, a fugitive

ugitive or
o somebody that we're
14
looking for, they have

ve
e a lot
lo of access to information that the
15
normal detective unit

un
uni
would
uld not have.
16
them in an attempt
and contact the individuals
tempt to
t identify
id
17
where we have
copies
of their IDs.
a e hard
h
co
OF
TH
EF
OG
10
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
18
All right.
10:24:11
So when we want to
So we've also employed
10:24:38
Thank you.
Let me just step back a minute and I want to make a
19
observations.
few observ
They're going to, perhaps, be painful.
21
don't
don
do
't intend them to be that way.
22
that we have clear understanding between us.

th
RI
20
10:25:04
But I think it's important
2
23
When did you take over your present responsibilities?
24
25
THE COURT:
It was September of 2010, sir.
And prior to you, who held your position?
10:25:34

Chief Deputy Dave Hendershott.
THE COURT:
I realize that you may or may
All right.
not know the answer to the questions I'm about to ask, but I
want your best faith answer.
And Sheriff, if you have information, I expect

ct you
yo to
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
THE COURT:
10
Yes.
I'm not going to put either

ither one
e of you
under oath, but I expect your best best faith answ

answer
to the
ns
questions I'm about to ask you.
OG
I've received from my monitor

that you had
r about communications
com
13
with him, and further, if

understood correctly what I've just
f I underst
14
heard from your counsel,

sel
el, Deputy Armendariz had a dash cam and
15
he had an eyeglass
cam.
s c
16
that we see recordings

of?
ecordin
ecordings
o
TH
EF
12
Did he have any other kind of camera

Di
OF
17
CHIEF
SHERIDAN:
H EF
F DEPUTY
U
Not that I'm aware of, sir.
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
Did the Maricopa County
All right.
ND
Sheriff's
Office issue eyeglass cameras to any of its officers?
eriff
rif 's
s Off
C
21
THE COURT:
IE
20
FR
2
23
10:26:30
18
22
10:26:02
If I understood correctly
the
information that
tly
ly from
f
t
11
19
10:25:50
give it, okay?
BO
.C
OM
Not that I'm aware of.
10:26:46
Was the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office
aware that some of its officers were recording traffic stops?

aw
The best way to answer that,
24
Your Honor, is the dash cams would have been purchased and
25
installed by the Sheriff's Office, so the answer would be yes,
10:27:11

to some extent.
All right.
existence in 2010, do you know?
THE COURT:
I do not know.
Do you know what happened to the
recordings from those dash cams?
THE COURT:
You have counsel here, and I don't

want to
don
o
compromise you in any way, but is there any reason

reaso to think
that other officers may have been doing
Armendariz
oing what Deputy
D
11
was doing, which is, in addition to whatever

data they received
whate
whateve
12
from the marico -- or data they

recorded through MCSO-issued
hey recorde
rec
13
devices, they were also doing

ing their own recordings?
MR. CASEY:
Honor, I just want to -- I'm going to

Your Honor
You
TH
14
just lodge -- you're

r asking
re
sking
ing him to speculate about -THE COURT
COURT:
:
That's fine.
Tha
OF
16
And let me make one
18
other thing
clear before you answer this question so you'll
hing cl
IE
ND
S
don't know,
say you don't know.
, you
ou should
shoul
o
19
know
ow
w where I'm
I'm coming from, and if plaintiffs have any
20
objection they can object.
10:28:28
I have reviewed my order this morning, and I believe
21
FR
10:28:11
And if you -- if you really
17
22
10:27:47
EF
OG
10
15
10:27:27
I do not know.
BO
How many dash cams were in
.C
OM
THE COURT:
that there is very little doubt that your investigation of what

th
2
23
you have discovered is subject to my monitor's review because
24
of its association with this lawsuit and the issues that relate
25
to it.
10:28:51

I also am not unmindful that the Sheriff's Office has
done things that I didn't like very much and that I think
violated my order and I required you to undertake corrective
action and you've done so, and done so to my satisfaction in

n
terms of that corrective action.
wary of you, and also reasons that you have -- that

t you've
you
operated in good faith.
information you are now sharing with us is information

you have
informati
because you've come forward, and I respect

ect that.
that.
tha
.C
OM
BO
I recognize that all of the
Let me say, however, that it must have

hav occurred to you
ha
OG
10
10:29:15
So there's reasons that

hat
t I'm
m
that there is, in addition to this

is lawsuit,
lawsuit a broad range of
lawsui
12
other potential ramifications

information
that you
s for the
t
i
13
contain.
14
jurisdiction over your

investigation, and to the extent that
ur
r investiga
investig
15
you have made the decision

d
de
sion
on to
t maintain this investigation
16
instead of giving
ving it out to another government -- investigative
17
agency, and
d even
ve if
ven
f you were to give out parts of it, it seems
18
to me you
u have to maintain certain parts that would then be
19
subject
bjec to my jurisdiction, let me tell you unequivocally what
bject
20
I think.
think
21
questions about what I'm about to say, now's the time to

have q
22
say it.
sa
EF
11
10:29:31
10:30:00
And Sheriff, Chief Deputy, my two monitors, if you
10:30:19
FR
IE
ND
OF
TH
And so to the extent

tent that
hat I believe I have
2
23
But it seems to me that the first thing we ought to do
24
before we analyze information is make sure that we gather all
25
the information that exists that needs to be analyzed.
And it
10:30:38

seems to me if in fact the MCSO had dash cams that were
operating at the time, we need to know who had those dash cams,
and we need to know where those traffic stops are being held,
and we need to know who we have reason to believe may have

e
otherwise been recording traffic stop activity.
.C
OM
It is my understanding from my monitor, and

have
nd I may ha
misunderstood him so I'm telling you now, so you

me
ou can correct
corr
if I do have a misunderstanding, that the MCSO

no
CSO had
h
n policy
relating to the self-recording of traffic

ic stops
stop by
b deputies, is
BO
that correct?
OG
10
11
12
THE COURT:
sir.
That is
Tha
s correct,
co
So it neither
encouraged nor discouraged
either enco
or in any way regulated such

ch activity.
activi
SHERIDAN:
15
THE COURT:
T:
TH
14
That is correct.
Do
o you have any reason to believe that
other deputies
been doing what Deputy Armendariz was
s may have
h
17
doing, which
self-recording
their police activities?
c is self
l
MR.
MR
R. CASEY:
C E
Your Honor, I just want to put on the
18
ND
record,
cord
ord, it is calling for speculation.
THE COURT:
T
That's fine.
21
MR. CASEY:
May I also just put on the record, Your
IE
20
FR
22
10:31:36
OF
16
19
10:31:24
EF
13
10:31:02
10:31:47
Honor, so to the extent it's clear for the Court, the reason I
Ho
2
23
contacted the monitor originally, the reason why we're here, is
24
because we agree, on behalf of the MCSO and Joe Arpaio, that
25
what we have discovered is pertinent to the monitor's scope of
10:32:03

his.
There will be no mission creep allegation based on what
we have discovered here.
I want that clear for the Court.
.C
OM
This presents issues beyond this litigation as well.
3
4
It needs to be -- information needs to be gathered responsibly,

sibly
bl ,
thoroughly, and in good faith.
it, my client needs to evaluate it, a lot of people

e need to
o
evaluate it, because, you know, there is that pending DOJ

OJ
lawsuit.
Yes.
And let me just

say,
and I don't
ust say
sa
, an
a
mean to interrupt you if I haven't let you

that it
yo finish,
fi
fin
11
seems to me, and one of the reasons

we're
on we
ons
w
're
re under seal -- and by
12
the way, if I find out that anybody in this room has disclosed
13
what is discussed here today,

oday
ay,
, I will
wil use the full authority of
14
this Court to make sure

re that
tha you
yo
o are corrected.
10:32:43
TH
EF
OG
10
15
10:32:32
THE COURT:
BO
The monitor needs to evaluate

valuate
luate
But it seems
to me that the first thing that we ought
ee
eem
to do, because
information will inevitably leak, to the
e this info
17
extent it h
has
already, and if in fact there are any other
s not
n
a
alr
18
officers
rs that
hat are involved in recording their activity, either
IE
ND
S
OF
16
10:33:02
legitimately
gitimately through an MCSO-issued device, and I can't say
20
illegitimately because there was no policy, but otherwise

illegitima
21
recording their activity, we need to recover that now.

record
recor
22
Because particularly if they were involved in
FR
19
2
23
surreptitious activity or activity that -- and I don't mean to
24
characterize anything that I haven't seen yet but you have
25
yourself characterized it, some of the stops as inappropriate,
10:33:20
10:33:38

if they realize that they may have taped stops that were
inappropriate that have relation to this lawsuit or otherwise,
their tendency is going to be to destroy that material.
.C
OM
And my first order of business, and I hope that you

u
join me in this, I expect you do, Chief Deputy, and I hope

pe you
ou
join me in this, Sheriff Arpaio, and I expect that you do,

d , and
do
an
if you don't I want you to tell me right now, is the first

firs
order of business is to obtain all of the material

that
is
ateri
aterial
t
tha
possibly out there that we might be able

e to obtain
obtai before it is
12
BO
11
10:34:21
OG
otherwise --
your question.
Your
if I can answer
You Honor,
Honor
on
EF
10
THE COURT:
Please
ase
e do
do.
.
14

SHERIDAN:
TH
13
Okay.
I do believe that there
are other deputies

that
s t
t have
hav recorded traffic stops and other
16
activities with
own purchased video cameras.
th their
thei ow
17
discovered within
the
past couple of months that the Sheriff's
ithin
th
t
18
Office purchased,
under a GOHS grant, a Governor's Office
purchas
purchase
Highway
Safety Grant, to be used during DUI stops, a series of
ghwa Safet
ghway
20
on-body
video cameras that were issued to Lake Patrol deputies
on
on-body vi
21
during the task force, the DUI task forces.

durin
IE
19
22
10:34:36
We also
ND
S
OF
15
FR
10:33:59
10:35:11
When we discovered this about two months ago, we
2
23
talked about a policy.
Where's the policy governing the
24
retention of these -- this evidence that is captured on these
25
devices?
We discovered, Chief Freeman and I, that there was no
10:35:42

policy involved so I ordered that a policy be promulgated.
That policy was signed by me.
look at best practices policy, and that policy was initially
given to me about two weeks ago.
questions and corrections.
signed off on it yesterday.
this month.
that went out this morning addressing those issues.

issu .
issues
.C
OM
I sent it back for some
It was given to me yesterday.

day.
.
It goes into effect on

n the 15th
t of
BO
I want to see it, but let me ask you
before we get there, because I want to drill down

on this point
d
11
before I go to policy, does the policy

requiring
polic involve
in
invo
12
deputies who've self-recorded

-- accounting
d data or requiring
r
13
for videotape data that has

through an MCSO or
s been
bee recorded
re
14
other -- otherwise departmentally-issued

device?
epartmentall
partmental
TH
CHIEF DEPUTY
SHERIDAN:
PU
PUT
SHERID
ERI
15
I'm sorry, sir.
I don't
10:36:53
OF
understand your
question.
ur question
ques
THE
COURT:
H COURT
CO
:
17
Well, that's fine.
Let me get to the
point a little bit

i more directly.
18
10:36:30
EF
OG
10
16
10:36:10
I do have a copy of that with the Briefing B

Board
THE COURT:
It takes a period of time to
Does your policy have anything to do with gathering up
ND
19
recordings that have been made either by deputies through

the record
21
their own personal device or through a departmentally-issued
22
device and accounting for that data?

dev
de
10:37:03
FR
IE
20
2
23
No, sir.
However, in light of
24
the discovery of these disks on Friday afternoon, yesterday I
25
ordered the chief of patrol, Chief Trombi, to begin to identify
10:37:25

who has the devices and to gather any information on where
those videos were, and if they were not in evidence, to obtain
them.
We're in the very beginning of this investigation.

n.
have an internal investigation that -THE COURT:
I can appreciate that.
10:38:01
Do you
u mind if
f I
interrupt you to just sort of drill down on that

you've
at point yo
o
just made and -CHIEF DEPUTY SHERIDAN:
BO
We
.C
OM
Yes, sir.
ir.
ir
.
THE COURT:
-- then I'll let

on?
et you go
o o
11
I want to do that, and I want

wan to assist you in doing
OG
10
it, and the monitor wants to assist you in doing it, and I
13
suspect the plaintiffs want

you in doing it, in the
ant
t to assist
assi
ssi
14
way that will be the most

and efficacious possible.
mos effective
effec
effect
15
It occurred to me la
last night
l
igh while I was thinking about this
16
that I could issue subpoenas

for every one of your officers
s
subpo
17
that you believe

e ieve
ev has
a such information, requiring them to
18
disclose
se it.
it
t.
19
destroying
stroying the
th data.
10:38:24
OF
TH
EF
12
10:38:11
ND
Alternatively,
that may only result in them
t
And so it might be better, to the extent that you and

A
20
sheriff can feel comfortable doing so, quietly collecting

the sh
th
s
22
the data.
th
But I would also want to know, if it can be quietly
FR
IE
21
10:38:41
2
23
collected, to not make a big fuss, I would also want to know
24
where it came from, where they were storing that data, and if
25
they claim to have deleted any such data, when they claim to
10:39:06

have deleted it.

If we have them on record making such statements, if
in fact further investigation finds that any officer likely had

ad
such data, and that it might be -- might provide probable cause

au
to believe that they engaged in other criminal activity,

ty, we
w
would then have the basis, perhaps, if it was appropriate,

opriat , to
opriate
seize where they claim they stored the data, and

nd look at
t the
technology to determine and/or recover it.
.C
OM
BO
It seems to me that we need to go to that

ha level, but I
agree -- it seems to me that I tend to agree w

with any concern
11
that you express that if I take formal

at this point,
forma action
ac
acti
12
it's only going to drive -- and I

I'm
'm not saying -- please, don't
13
misunderstand me.
14
officers or deputies are

ar crooked.
crooke
crooked
15
share my interest in
exactly what they've been
i determining
determi
erm
16
doing and if any of are crooked, finding out that they have
17
been crooked,
finding
out what their activities are.
e
findi
10:39:42
EF
OG
10
But I'm certain that you

10:40:01
OF
TH
I'm not
the bulk of your
ot saying that
t
So
o do you have any input for me on that?
18

CHIE
ND
19
Yes, sir.
I would ask the
Court to allow us to do it in a softer manner than subpoenas.
21
we'll be more productive.

I think
thin
hi
22
concerns, and I think we share the same concerns about the

co
IE
20
FR
10:39:24
10:40:15
And I understand your
2
23
documentation of where/when/how this information has been
24
stored, because I would -- I'm guessing that not all those
25
videos have been stored properly in the evidence and property
10:40:45

room.
THE COURT:
That would seem to be an assumption that I
would share.
And so I will tell you that I will have my
monitor work with you to develop a pro -- if you want his
assistance.
the department and what I expect is -- and I understand

stand that
a
the best way to do it may not be through my formal

rmal involvement,
involv
but what I expect is a thought-through plan that is ex

executed
very quickly, because this is all, likely,

ly,
ly
, already
alread through part
.C
OM
10:41:02
BO
But I'm going to tell you that what I want

t from
fr
10
of the department, in which you can quietly gather

up such
g
ga
11
material, such data, and that you

determine
where it was
ou
u can deter
et
12
held, when it was held, and if any

officer says it
ny particular
part
13
was deleted, when that deletion

and from where.
eletion
etion occurred,
occ
14
destruction, if it was
like Armendariz's.
s held on DVDs
D
Or
TH
EF
OG
10:41:24
Is there any
other
a
her category of information that the
15
plaintiffs would
that the Maricopa County Sheriff's
uld suggest
sug
17
pursue?
OF
16
With
just to this topic.
i h respect
respe
MS.
MS
S. WANG:
W G
Your Honor, given that we're hearing this
18
10:41:42
for
r the
th first time, I think it's hard for us to determine
20
there are additional categories of data.

whether th
21
obviously, disclose whether other data besides

that MCSO,
M
22
video recordings come to light and document those as well.

vi
I would ask
10:42:01
FR
IE
ND
19
2
23
24
25
THE COURT:
Well, we're not there yet.
I'm about to
get there.
MS. WANG:
Okay.
10:42:18

THE COURT:
And I am not precluding you from making
requests for additional information.
the fly, including the MCSO, but we're trying to recover and
maintain as much as information as quickly as we can, and it

t
seems to me that we need to act quickly.
there that the MCSO knows it issued?

THE COURT:
11
How many
y do we have
hav
av out
I do not
right now, Your
ot know rig
ri
OG
Honor.
little concerned about the dash cams.
BO
Do you know if there

re was any repository
within the MCSO for such traffic

ffic stops?
st
stops
?
13

ERIDAN
IDAN:
:
I do not know.
14
THE COURT:
So I take it you don't --
TH
All right.
right
15
well, I would expect

run down that information as
ec that
ect
hat
t you'd
y
yo
16
quick as possible.
ible.
ible
17
maintained it,
whether
it's been maintained on police
t,
, whethe
t
18
department
computers
or other data, I would expect you would do
ment
nt comp
com
t
19
your
ur best to gather that up.
OF
ND
21
Yes, sir, it is.
22
THE COURT:
Let me tell you two other
IE
Is that something that's reasonable to request?

I
FR
10:42:59
And again, whether individual officers have
20
All right.
2
23
concerns I have, and I want to check one second briefly with my
24
monitor.
25
10:42:49
EF
12
10:42:35
Now, Chief Deputy Sheridan, Sheriff Arpaio,

o, I'm
I'm a
10
We're all doing this on
.C
OM
10:43:13
10:43:23

THE COURT:
I have two other matters I want to raise
with you.
The monitor, in his initial activities, has come
across the fact that during the term of the traffic stops that
t
are at issue in this lawsuit there have been digital audio

o
devices that have been delivered to members of the MCSO

O to make
ak
recordings of all such stops.
.C
OM
THE COURT:
Where are such recordings

kept?
ordings kep
ke
Those
ose digital
digita recording
OG
10
Yes, sir.
Are you aware of that?
BO
devices are issued to all deputy

y sheriffs
sheriffs, and there is a
12
specific policy on the final repository

of those in evidence in
reposi
13
the property room.

THE COURT:
CHIEF
F DEPUTY
DEPUT SHERIDAN:
SH
OF
10:44:51
Well, if they're evidence,
Your Honor,
, it
t would
l be until the case has been adjudicated.
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
Yeah, I'm talking about recordings that
18
may
y no
not have resulted in any charges.
ND
19
Do you know how long such
material is maintained
for?
ai d for
ain
or?
?
16
17
All right.
right
TH
15

C
That, I -- I do not know, sir.
21
THE COURT:
Can you find that out and do
IE
20
FR
22
All right.
10:45:05
your best, and I mean your level best, come up with a plan,
yo
2
23
review it with the monitor if you will, if you need to, to
24
recover all of that data?
25
10:44:29
EF
11
14
10:44:18
Yes, sir.
10:45:20

MR. CASEY:
And Your Honor, if I may add, I believe
the Court's order of October 2013 also has a provision in there
regarding document retention, length of time for data-related
material, which I understand, based on what I've heard here,

re,
this would fall under that.

THE COURT:
10:45:40
Well, clearly.
But I want to make clear

e
.C
OM
that to the extent the order can be read as applying

plying -- I mean,
I was under the misimpression, and I -- well,

l, the order
orde is
or
written as if there is no recording going

because
I believe
ng on
on,
, beca
ec
BO
I was under that misimpression, and I suspect the plaintiffs
11
were as well.
MS. WANG:
13
THE COURT:
We were, Your Honor.

H
Honor
And now
ow that I find out that recording was
going on, I believe that

clearly, we need to find out what
hat clearly
clearl
15
those recordings were

and
them.
we
wer
d recover
re
r
TH
14
OF
requirement
order which will maybe be extended,
nt in
n the or
18
depending
ing
ng upon how long it takes to -- for the plaintiffs to
19
digest
information and for it to be of use to others.
gest this
his i
ND
17
MR. CASEY:
M
May I consult with my client briefly?
21
THE COURT:
You certainly may.
22
FR
IE
20
24
25
10:46:08
And I agree wit

with you, Mr. Casey, there is a retention
16
2
23
10:45:56
EF
12
OG
10
MS. WANG:
10:46:25
Your Honor, could we ask for clarification
on when the audio recordings began as a matter of policy?

THE COURT:
You may certainly do so.
10:46:41

MR. CASEY:
1
2
I'm sorry.
I just needed to consult real
quick so I didn't misstate anything to the Court.

THE COURT:
Do you know when the audio recording began, Chief

f
That's perfectly fine.
Deputy Sheridan?
10:46:56
Your Honor, I -- I don

don't.
.C
OM
However, audio recording has been used by detectives

ctives for as
long as I can remember, in different formats

s as the technology
te
has changed, and -- several years ago, and that

that's
tha
's as far as my
THE COURT:
11
12
OG
memory can allow me --
Well, you will

that's something
ill understand
under
underst
I'm very interested in?

ERIDAN
IDAN:
:
13
10:47:17
EF
10
BO
Yes,
sir, and I will get that
Ye
time, because I know we made

purchase of digital
ad a large
l
15
recording devices for

about all deputy sheriffs throughout
f
just
st a
16
the organization.
ion.
ion
.
17
in rules of
domestic violence cases and
f how
ow to investigate
in
18
those kinds
along with cameras and -- and those
nds of things,
h
19
devices
record evidence.
vices
ice to re
TH
14
10:47:29
OF
part of that was mandated by the change

And p
A
THE COURT:
T
20
In addition to the dash-mount cameras or
other cameras that MCSO may have issued, in addition to the

any o
ot
22
audio recording devices, in addition to any recording devices,

au
2
23
including audio or video recording devices that may have been
24
officers doing their own recording, I have received information
25
that the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors approved in 2005
RI
21
10:47:54
10:48:17

a mobile computers program that was shut down by the office of
management and budget for the MCSO, but it was reapproved in
2007.
computers, and the second and third year required electronic

nic
c
citation capacity and cameras in cars, and detectives getting

tting
computers and equipment.
.C
OM
And the first year of that program required patrol
Do you know anything about that program?

am?
am
?
BO
I was
in charge of the jail system at that time.

me.
me
.
THE COURT:
10
All right.
I'm
m going to ask you, in
OG
No, sir, very little.

littl
little
conjunction with whatever else you

out what may
ou do,
do to find
f
12
have been recorded, to look into the

mobile computer program as
th mo
13
it was partially implemented

2005 or 2007, to determine what
nted
ed in 200
14
recordings that that may

resulted
in, and also gather
ma have
ha
r
re
15
those recordings.
TH
MR. CASEY:
CASEY:
10:49:19
Does
Doe the Court have an MBOS executive
OF
16
session or public
meeting notice date that would help us
ublic
bl
m
mee
18
identify?
fy
y?
17
THE COURT:
I do not.
20
MR. CASEY:
M
Okay.
21
THE COURT:
The only information I have received is it
IE
ND
19
FR
2
23
10:48:59
EF
11
22
10:48:43
Thank you, Your Honor.
10:49:32
was -- that the paperwork for the MCSO labeled this stuff the
wa
mobile computer program.
24
MR. CASEY:
Okay, mobile computer program.
25
Your Honor, that would mean to
10:49:49

me the MDCs, the mobile data computers in the patrol vehicles,
which on one of the videos you'll see Deputy Armendariz
actually using it, it's not a recording device; it's just a
communications tool in the vehicle to get -- it's part of the

he
CAD system, and -- but I will have to do the research on the

t
in-car cameras and those things --
-- because I'm
I m not familiar
I'
fa
with that.
THE COURT:
10
11
Well --
That's fine.
I will expe
expect you to do
exp
OG
that.

AN:
AN
13
THE COURT:
Yes,
Ye , sir.
Yes
s
Now,
just say I want the very first
, let me
m ju
thing to happen, unless

ss you
ou tell
el me this is unreasonable for
15
some reason, I think

very first part of your operation, and
in the
ink
he ver
ve
16
I realize that
information you now have is extensive and
t the infor
i
17
may well be
but as I've said, I think that the first
e damaging,
damaging
amagin
18
obligation
tion
on that
tha you owe the public and that I clearly owe the
19
public,
well as the parties in this lawsuit, is that we find
blic, as we
blic
20
the truth and gather all the information that may be

out all th
21
implicated here.
implic
impli
ND
IE
FR
10:50:29
OF
TH
14
22
10:50:20
EF
12
10:50:09
THE COURT:
BO
.C
OM
10:50:44
So I have listed for you certain categories of
2
23
recordings that I either believe or have reason to believe have
24
taken place, and some of that at least is in regard to
25
information that you've voluntarily disclosed, and I recognize
10:51:00

that.
But regardless of whether I've listed the kinds of
recordings that may or may not take place, I expect your plan
to be to find out what has been recorded, whether legitimately,

ately
el ,
illegitimately, or whether just patrol officers doing it -- and

an
that doesn't necessarily mean it was wrong, but it wasn't

wasn
authorized by the department -- I expect you to

o find all of
that and to do your best to capture it.
.C
OM
BO
And to the extent that you decide

ide at some
om point my
assistance is necessary or wise in terms

being able to
erms of
f be
b
11
identify particular officers and procedures

that may have that,
procedur
12
I'm telling you, I'll give it

t to
t you.
yo .
you
10:51:27
EF
OG
10
Do you understand
nd what I'm
I'm saying?
14

SHERIDAN:
15
THE COURT:
T:
TH
13
Yes, sir.
Do
o you have any concerns about that,
10:51:42
Ms. Wang, before

on?
ore I g
go on
OF
16
10:51:12
MS.
S WANG:
WA :
WANG
17
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
All right.
Now, I guess I want to ask
18
No, Your Honor.

N
you,
Deputy Sheridan, in any of the recordings that you,
u, Chief De
20
department, has viewed, has there been anybody else other

the depart
21
Armendariz that is MCSO personnel that is in those

than Deputy
D
22
recordings?
re
10:51:54
FR
IE
ND
19
2
23
Your Honor, I'd like to defer
24
the answer to that question to Captain Holmes, because the
25
videos that I have seen my answer would be no, but his would be
10:52:10

different.
THE COURT:
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
THE COURT:
Thanks.
Please identify yourself for

r the
th
record again.
10:52:18
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
THE COURT:
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
Ken Holmes, spelled H-o-l-m-e-s.

l-m
-m-e
e-s.
All right.
.C
OM
Thank you.
Again, we've looked

ed through
throug maybe 250
BO
traffic stops, of which the volume we believe

be somewhere
elieve to
o b
between 2500 and 5,000.
11
have noted possibly a couple of additional

additiona officers that were
12
present while Deputy Armendariz

a traffic stop.
riz was conducting
con
And in
n any of them would you characterize
Deputy Armendariz engaging

inappropriate activity in those
gaging
aging in in
i
15
stops?
CAPTAIN
AIN HOLMES:
HOL
HOLMES
OF
17
TH
14
16
10:52:56
With respect to the dispositions,
possibly.
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
Can you identify who those officers were?
18
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
CAPT
ND
19
One I believe is Lieutenant Sousa was
present and the other one I don't know the name currently, but
present,
21
there are others that have recognized the voice.
IE
20
FR
22
2
23
24
25
10:52:32
EF
THE COURT:
13
But of the ones that

hat we've watched, we
OG
10
THE COURT:
All right.
10:53:07
Well, thank you.
Do you have any other information that's responsive to

my question?
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
No, Your Honor.
Thank you.
10:53:22

THE COURT:
Thank you.
MR. CASEY:
Your Honor, before he sits down, and I
apologize, it's your courtroom, but I was wondering, would it
be helpful for you to get a feel for what they're estimating

ing
g
right now as a time frame for reviewing this and staffing

fing
g it?
Does that matter to the Court, or --
Well, it does matter to me,

e, but as
a I said,
my first priority, I think, would be --
BO
MR. CASEY:
Sure.
10
THE COURT:
-- to gather everything.
verything.
verything
.
OG
Once we're sure
we've got everything we can get, at least we've got the data
12
that will give rise to the appropriate

investigations at that
ppropri
ppropriate
13
point.
14
plan in terms of gathering

material.
hering
ering the m
15
concerned with at the

th moment.
moment
men
EF
11
TH
So I will get back

that, but I first want a time
ck to that
That's what I'm more
OF
concerned t
to the
to which other deputies may be involved
th extent
exte
x
18
and have
these inappropriate depositions, and I'm
ve witnessed
witne
itne
19
highly
concerned
to the extent that Lieutenant Sousa, who was
ghly concer
oncer
20
at trial, may have been involved in those, and I

also a witness
wit
21
assume that you share my concern, is that correct, Sheriff?

assum
ND
IE
FR
22
25
10:53:58
17
24
10:53:42
Chief
Sheriff Arpaio, of course I am
f Deputy
Deput Sheridan,
Sh
16
2
23
10:53:32
THE COURT:
.C
OM
question.
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
10:54:21
Your Honor, I didn't hear that
Could you -THE COURT:
Yeah.
I assume that you share my concern
about others in the MCSO, particularly those who may have
10:54:39

supervisorial responsibilities, that appear in those
videotapes, especially to the extent that they reflect
inappropriate activity on behalf -- on the part of your
deputies.
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
THE COURT:
.C
OM
Yes, I do.
10:54:53
And I assume, then, that your office

offic will
wil
take full and complete steps to investigate who

o may have been
aware that this activity was going on, no matter

up
atter how
w high
h
the chain it goes.

SHERIFF ARPAIO:
11
THE COURT:
12
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
That's right.
ght.
ght
We will
do that.
w
wi
OG
10
BO
10:55:07
Do you have a plan

pl
i place to do that?
in
EF
I have delegated
the -- this
de
delega
situation to the Chief Deputy,

eputy
uty,
, and
nd I'm sure, with all his
14
experience, that he knows

to
now how
nows
h
t carry it out and put the
15
resources to accomplish
mp
mpli
h that
tha mission.
TH
13
THE COURT
COURT:
:
Well, sir, I appreciate that somebody that

Wel
OF
16
10:55:23
has your office

to be able to delegate and has to be able
f ice
ce has
s t
18
to trust
you delegate, but I just want to make it clear,
st who yo
y
19
and
don't
this to sound like a threat, you understand
d I don
n't want
w
20
that you are the party to this lawsuit and so while it is
21
certainly appropriate that you delegate, you also need to be

certai
certa
22
involved in the supervision and the understanding and the

inv
in
10:55:39
FR
IE
ND
17
2
23
direction of -- and setting the tone that no matter who the
24
truth hurts or how it hurts, it's coming out.
25
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
That's correct.
10:55:56

THE COURT:
Are you going to be setting that tone?
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
THE COURT:
Yes.
.C
OM
And will you be involved in coordinating
with Chief Deputy Sheridan to make sure that that investigation

gation
ti
goes forward on that basis?

SHERIFF ARPAIO:
THE COURT:
He will keep me advised.
All right.
10:56:05
And you will -- and you don't
share any concerns with my primary concern of making sure that
we find out all this data, and that we investigate

investigat it
appropriately.
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
11
No.
OG
10
BO
I can understand
your concern,
unders
de
and I've been in law enforcement

many years as a top
ment 50 years,
yea
13
federal official and all over

so I understand the
ve the world,
w
14
concern of the courts,

system, and now as the
, the federal
feder
fede
15
elected sheriff we
will
we can to get to the
e w
l do everything
e
16
bottom of this.
s.
OF
TH
EF
12
THE
COURT:
H COURT
CO
:
17
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
SHER
ND
19
20
FR
22
And you will cooperate
Yes, I --
THE COURT:
T
And no information will be withheld from
MR. CASEY:
Your Honor, with all due respect to the
10:56:50
him.
him
hi
.
IE
21
All right.
10:56:38
completely
with my monitor.
tely
ly wit
18
10:56:19
2
23
Court, I just -- he can answer that question, but where we --
24
we have an obligation to work with Your Honor's monitor under
25
your order, and quite frankly, I think we have.
I don't want
10:57:05

to be a nitpicking lawyer, but I think we have, and it sounds
from the -- if someone were to read that transcript, it makes
it sound as if we've not been cooperating with the monitor.

THE COURT:
.C
OM
Well, I appreciate your avowal that you

you'll
u'll
cooperate with the monitor in the future, and I don't mean

an to
o
characterize anything or infringe on your right to make
clarifications, Mr. Casey, and you've down that.

t.
You will cooperate with the monitor,

r, Sheriff?
Sherif
Sheriff
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
THE COURT:
11
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
If we have
-ave some
som differences
d
di
Bring them to me
me.
.
10:57:34
OG
10
Yes.
BO
-- I'm sure
bring that
sur we
e will
wi
forward and try to alleviate any

problems.
an proble
pr
THE COURT:
13
EF
12
And do
o that
tha in a timely fashion.
But
with -- to me.
But in
I believe that all records
n the meantime,
mean
meant
15
and all activity pursuant

pu
purs
ant
t to
t any of these investigations is
16
under his authority.

hority.
hority
And
Casey, if you have any problem with that, it's
n Mr
Mr. Case
Ca
17
time to
o let me know now.
MR CASEY:
MR.
ND
19
No.
In fact, I'm going to reiterate what
an hour ago:
I said maybe
may
21
behalf of my clients, if there's any mission creep we'll come

behal
22
to the Court.
FR
IE
20
I agree with the Court, and on
10:57:58
But right now we agree that Bob Warshaw and his
2
23
team, because of the Armendariz material, have the need, as an
24
officer of the Court, to investigate those matters.
25
10:57:47
OF
TH
14
18
10:57:22
That's why I wrote him the other day.
We welcome his
10:58:16

involvement.
We welcome the Court's involvement.
realize we've gotta get some information to you, but that's why
we came to your agent is because we understand that's in his
purview.
THE COURT:
Thank you.
And we
.C
OM
And I do acknowledge that

a the
he
information that we've received in this regard has come from

o
the MCSO.
BO
Now, Chief Deputy Sheridan, Sheriff

f Arpaio has
ha
8
9
indicated he's delegated this responsibility

principally to
ility princ
prin
you.
Do you have a plan for going forward

the
orward with
wit
wi
11
investigation of personnel that may

by Deputy
may,
, either
th
12
Armendariz's tapes or by any of the other

recordings that you
oth
13
find, be implicated in inappropriate

nappropriat
ppropriat activity?
EF
OG
10

SHERIDAN:
TH
14
Yes, sir.
10:58:47
On Monday I
instructed Captain
Holmes,
our commander of the
n H
mes
s, o
16
Internal Affairs
to initiate an internal
irs division,
div
divisio
17
investigation
to
ti n and
a
t put on notice all the members of the Yuma
18
smuggling
unit, t
that's the unit that Deputy Armendariz
ing
ng unit
19
primarily
worked with during the time of -- under the
imarily wor
20
direction -- discretion of this Court, to put them under notice
21
that we were going to begin this internal

of investigation
in
inv
22
investigation.
inv
in
10:59:07
RI
EN
D
OF
15
2
23
10:58:30
10:59:32
Everyone that was in contact with detective -- Deputy
24
Armendariz will be interviewed, to include their supervisors
25
and their chain of command, because I believe we, the sheriff
10:59:56

and I, Captain Holmes, everyone that is in the know about this,
share the same concerns the Court does about who knew what,
when, and how did this happen?
along?
yesterday when I briefed him, and I believe even Thursday

sday
y night
gh
when I discussed that with him last week.
.C
OM
How did things get this far
And I expressed those concerns with Chief Warshaw
So we are very concerned about this, and we've

we'
we
've
v been
b
working very closely with the monitor on this

we
is issue,
is
issue
, because
b
understand the gravity of this new information.

rmation.
rmation
THE COURT:
11
MS. WANG:
Any questions?
Ms.
Wang?
Ms
M
. Wang
ang?
11:00:51
OG
10
BO
Your Honor, I do have

ve some -- some
reactions I'd like to share with the

Court if we're done with
th Co
13
gathering information.
THE COURT:
Well,
Well
Wel
, let
t me just say, I'm going to meet
TH
14
EF
12
15
11:00:26
with the monitor.
11:01:05
Are you goi

to be here through tomorrow?
going t
OF
16
CHIEF
H EF
F WARSHAW:
WARSHA
S
17
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
I'm scheduled to leave.
All right.
Well, I'm going to direct the
18
Or not.
monitor
work with you on a plan that he can approve that's
nitor
ito to wo
20
your best thinking about how you can, without resulting in any
21
destruction of evidence, gather all the recordings, and then

destru
destr
22
based on what you find, and/or maybe beginning before you can
ba
11:01:22
FR
IE
ND
19
2
23
assess what you find, depending upon your thoughts, you result
24
in an appropriate and thorough investigation.
25
Is there any issue with that?
11:01:40

MS. WANG:
would like to -All right.
Deputy --
MS. WANG:
THE COURT:
Yeah, of course.
11:01:49
-- Chief Sheridan first.
I just want to hear from
.C
OM
THE COURT:
3
4
I'm sorry, Your

ur Honor.
Honor
thought that question was for me.
BO
No, Your Honor, and we appreciate that.
Yes, I've consulted with Chief Warshaw

this and
Warsha about
a
ab
we discussed this issue yesterday.
11
me Thursday night and yesterday about some

om of the concerns the
12
Court had, some of his advice

dealing with issues like
e from deal
13
this -- Chief Martinez, also

so -- and I took what they had to say
14
and we will incorporate

how we approach this
ate
te that
ha into
in
int
15
situation.
All right.
11:02:21
And for what it's worth, I'm
going to say
I'm
enforcement professional.
a I
'm no
o law
l
18
want to
o protect
protec you, protect your men in an appropriate way.
I certainly
19
But
want to move quickly, especially in terms of
t I also
so wa
20
gathering evidence.
21
public forever, but I certainly understand the law enforcement

publi
22
need that you have, at least for a reasonable period, to do

ne
FR
IE
ND
S
17
2
23
your best to make sure that you can obtain all the evidence
24
without its destruction.
25
11:02:00
EF
TH
THE COURT
COURT:
:
OF
16
He had
good advice for
ha some
so
som
OG
10
I cannot justify withholding this from the
So I will be asking you for reasonable estimates about
11:02:34
11:02:49

how long this information needs to be kept under seal, because
I don't want to keep it under seal longer than it has to be
kept under seal.
You understand that.
Yes, sir.
.C
OM
Captain Holmes
s is
in the process of writing an investigative plan, and he

e should
be getting that to us rather quickly.
Ms. Wang.
MR. CASEY:
10
All right.
Thank you.
BO
THE COURT:
Your Honor, three -three

- may I put
p
pu
things on the record --
OG
THE COURT:
You may.
12
MR. CASEY:
-- real quick,
quick briefly.
bri
13
I'm going to assume,

sume
me,
, unless
unles the Court tells me
otherwise, that our point
-- our, my client MCSO -oin of
o contact
co
con
15
will be the monitor,

and his delegee, and that to
or, Bob
or
ob Warshaw,
Wa
War
16
the extent the

wants to have another hearing like this or
e Court wan
17
needs something
filed under seal or whatnot, you'll
et ing
ng in writing,
wr
18
issue an
us to that.
n order directing
i
19
your
informed.
ur agent in
ND
OF
TH
14
That's correct.
21
MR. CASEY:
Okay.
IE
THE COURT:
T
FR
11:03:33
Otherwise, we will keep
Is that --
20
11:03:47
The second thing I wanted to let
you know on the record is Cecillia Wang mentioned that she has
yo
2
23
not had a fair opportunity yet to digest everything, and did
24
not know the purpose of the 10:00 a.m.
25
11:03:21
EF
11
22
11:03:03
We are open, and I convey this to the Court and on the
11:04:03

record, when they have -- if they come up with other ideas of
other areas, we are not going to automatically exclude them
because they're coming from Cecillia or the ACLU.
consider them in good faith.
Warshaw or Raul Martinez say, That's a good idea, then it

it's
t's
likely to be adopted by my client.
.C
OM
We will
And if Bob
B
And the third thing I want to just point

because
int out,
out, be
I heard from my co-counsel, through Captain Holmes

Holmes,
just a
Holm
, ju
matter of clarification on the record so

is ever
o if this i
BO
unsealed, that Lieutenant Joe Sousa was never seen or observed
11
doing or saying anything inappropriate

opriate
priat or unlawful or illegal;
12
that he may have been present

an improper
t during,
durin , perhaps,
during
p
13
disposition done in his presence

esenc by Charley Ramon Armendariz.
EF
OG
10
Did I accurately
that?
ately
tely capture
captu
captur
15
THE COURT:
T:
TH
14
right.
All rig
ri
CAPTAIN
A TAIN
AI HOLMES:
HOLM
O
17
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
Thank you very much.
And that is based on the 250
That is correct, Your Honor.
All right.
I will expect, by the way,
updates
terms of who else you may find on those tapes and
dates
ate in te
20
whatever else you may find, I'll expect the monitor to be
21
providing full updates of that information.

provid
provi
IE
ND
19
FR
11:05:00
18
22
11:04:36
tapes that you

so far.
u reviewed
revie
OF
16
11:04:22
We will be receptive.
MR. CASEY:
11:05:14
And that's exactly why I clarified it,
2
23
because that man to your right, Bob Warshaw, will get it as
24
soon as we have the sense to give it to them.
25
soon as we understand what we've got --
What I mean, as
11:05:27

THE COURT:
All right.
MR. CASEY:
-- then it will go to him.
I think you're
looking at a 24 to 48 hours from the moment of discovery.
can't imagine why, unless there's an intervening weekend, why

hy
it would take longer.
always been counsels' advice:
thorough is better than sloppy.
.C
OM
And without waiving anything, that's

hat
t's
THE COURT:
Thank you.
Ms. Wang.
10
MS. WANG:
11
I have two main points in reaction

to what we've heard
reacti
BO
All right.
Sooner is better than

an later;
lat ;
later

Honor
OG
11:05:49
today.
The first is that based

sed on the limited information
13
we've now gotten, it seems

that there were
ms quite
quit likely
li
14
discovery violations in this

hi case.
ca
a
15
number of -- quite
e a volume
ume of recordings and other data that
16
were available
the close of discovery as well as through
e before
befor th
17
the time of
and the discussions about the remedies in
f the
he trial
tri
18
this case
ase
e that we should have gotten as plaintiffs.
It seems that there were a
19
concerned
about that, particularly in light of the spoliation
ncerned
cerned abo
20
evidence which the Court sanctioned MCSO for.

of evidenc
IE
FR
22
11:06:09
I'm
ND
S
OF
TH
EF
12
21
11:05:38
11:06:28
Relatedly, Your Honor, I do have concerns that there
is no outside agency that is participating in this
2
23
investigation.
After last week's sidebar discussion I did ask
24
Mr. Liddy whether any other agencies would become involved in
25
investigating this matter, and he said no.
My understanding
11:06:52

was that the initial instigation of the investigation of Deputy
Armendariz began with the Phoenix Police Department responding,
and so as plaintiffs we have a number of questions about the
process that MCSO has undertaken to date and going into the
he
future.
11:07:14
For that reason, we would ask that the Court

urt order
.C
OM
MCSO to document all steps they've taken to investigate

vestigate this
t
matter, starting with the instigation of the

e Armendariz
Armenda
Armendari
investigation, and that they provide that

monitor, to
at to the m
BO
the Court, and to the plaintiffs, so

understand
o that we
e fully
f
11
what steps were taken.
OG
10
I do have some concerns,

analogous to the ones
ern , I think
erns
thi
13
that Your Honor expressed,

how best to preserve evidence,
d, about ho
14
and to gather it, and to avoid the

possibility of destruction
t
15
of evidence.
16
about to promulgate
new document retention policy tomorrow.
ulgate a ne
TH
policy,
combined with the notice they've already given to
, combin
members
mbers
ber of the
th Human Smuggling Unit, combined with the
20
notoriety of what happened with Deputy Armendariz in the past
21
couple of weeks, gives rise to some concerns about that, and so

coupl
22
I think that having some clarity about the investigation is all
FR
19
2
23
24
25
11:07:52
I think
that timing of an announcement of a
hink
in that
h
IE
ND
S
18
Chief
indicated that they are
ef Deputy
puty
ty Sheridan
S
OF
17
EF
12
11:07:34
11:08:14
the more important.

Finally, Your Honor, I think it's pretty clear already
from what we've heard, which is, I'm sure, just the tip of the
11:08:35

iceberg, that this new information could certainly affect
MCSO's pending appeal of Your Honor's orders to the Ninth
Circuit.
very serious failures in supervision in the complaint process

cess
s
that MCSO has for civilians to record their -- or to register

ister
their complaints about deputies with the agency, serious

erious
concerns about discipline arise from what we've

today.
e heard tod
All of those things have been addressed in Your Honor

Honor's
October
o
supplemental injunction, and those are all things that
.C
OM
plaintiffs, our answering brief

ief is due to the Ninth Circuit
13
this Friday.
14
serious discovery violations,

lation , I think we'll need to do some
lations
15
work as plaintiffs
s to
t decide
cid whether to take steps in light of
16
the pending appeal,

ppeal,
ppeal
, and we'll be happy to meet and confer with
17
the defense
e counsel
ounsel about that.
EF
12
OF
TH
And in light
ht of what appears to be some very
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
All right.
If you'll hold there, I have a
ND
few
w questions for you.
Would it be your suggestion that the MCSO not
W
20
11:09:55
promulgate its new document retention policy?

promul
promu
IE
FR
22
11:09:39
18
21
11:09:21
And so the status of the

e appeal is that the
11
19
11:08:58
BO
defendants have challenged on appeal.

l.
.
OG
10
Just what we've heard today indicates that there were

re
MS. WANG:
I would want, frankly, to hear the
2
23
monitor's thoughts about that as a law enforcement -- with his
24
law enforcement expertise.
25
of common sense.
I do have concerns just as a matter
That may be mitigated by the fact that
11:10:14

they've already sent out notice to HSU members that this
investigation is ongoing, I'm not sure it makes a difference at
this point, but that raised a red flag for me.

THE COURT:
Yeah.
.C
OM
Do you have any concerns consulting

ulting
ti
with the sheriff and/or with the plaintiffs about how they
ey
proceed to best obtain the material that we're talking

king about,
abou
about
Chief?
I have no concerns,
but I
, Your
You Honor,
Hono
o
BO
CHIEF WARSHAW:
do think it would be instructive, because

understood
se if I und
un
Chief Deputy Sheridan's representation
ion to the Court, he said
11
that the preference would be for the agenc

agency
to gather this
en
12
information in a soft -- in a soft way,

way and I think as long as
13
we're in session here with

th you now,
now Judge, I would like some
14
clarity on that.
TH
Clearly, as
to the digital recording
a it pertains
per
pert
15
devices that they ha

was in fact -- were in fact
have acknowledged
a
17
purchased b
by the
in our interactions with the command
th County,
Coun
o
18
of two distric
districts, it was very clear that there has been no
11:11:08
ND
S
OF
16
policy
so I would not be familiar with any retention
licy on
n that,
tha
20
documents, since one district commander made it all

of those d
21
clear that deputies were free and clear to delete anything

too c
cl
22
that was either exculpatory or inculpatory.

th
IE
19
FR
11:10:50
EF
OG
10
2
23
11:10:32
11:11:32
There were
basically no governing rules.
24
But to the point of Ms. Wang's question, instead of a
25
single silo regarding a retention policy, I'd like to have the
11:11:54

opportunity to speak with MCSO more specifically, so I could
ultimately advise the Court on your question, understanding it
in context.
have about the -- about the publishing of any retention policy

olicy
ic
until I've had a few minutes with the MCSO.
MS. WANG:
THE COURT:
Any objection to that?
THE COURT:
11:12:22
No, Your Honor.
Is there any objection that the

MCSO wants
e M
BO
.C
OM
So I'm just going to hold in abeyance any views I
to set forth to providing a written report

all of the
ort as to a
steps that have been taken with respect
pect to
t the
th Armendariz
11
investigation to date?
Your Honor,
nor, I have just been advised that
nor
state law requires HSU to

notified that there is an
o be notifi
14
investigation by Internal
that state law also requires
rna Affairs;
rnal
Affai
Affair
15
a certain level of
confidentiality.
f co
fident
den
TH
13
11:12:57
As a matter of principle, we don't object to reporting
OF
16
to the Court
seal,
to the monitor under seal, to the
r under
un
se
18
plaintiffs
under seal, so long as we can also do it consistent
iffs
ffs und
19
with
th
h Arizona law, which I'm sure there is a way we need to do.
20
We can do that.
ND
17
IE
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
11:12:35
EF
MR. CASEY:
12
OG
10
11:13:15
THE COURT:
All right.
Then I'm going to order you to
MR. CASEY:
And that would be to the Court.
do that.
To the
monitor -THE COURT:
It would be to the Court, with copies to
11:13:21

the monitor and the plaintiff.

MR. CASEY:
And under seal.
THE COURT:
Under seal.
MR. CASEY:
Yes, sir.
THE COURT:
And let me just note that either party

rt can
ca
.C
OM
have access to this hearing and its transcript without

hout further
furt
furthe
order of the Court.
under seal, and so is the transcript.
disclosed until further order of the Court.

urt.
urt
However, this transcript, this hearing

is
heari
BO
It is
s not to be
right?
All r
MS. WANG:
Your Honor, one clarificat

clarification on that.
clarifica
11
Obviously, we're all aware

are of the
th pending Justice
11:13:46
OG
10
Department litigation before another

in this district.
anothe judge
ju
13
just wanted to know whether

they've
her
r they
the
've
ve been apprised of these
14
developments.
TH
EF
12
MR. CASEY:
Y:
15
I can
you that counsel for the
an tell
t
11:14:01
sheriff in the
was present with us on Monday.
e DOJ case
c
17
are separately
by the Jones, Skelton law firm.
at ly
y represented
repres
r
18
don't know
done, but I know that they've got a lot
now what
wha they've
t
They
I
ND
S
OF
16
19
11:13:26
to do
can't tell you what representations are.
do,
, so
o I c
I can tell you, however, it is my position, I will
20
Cecillia Wang on this, but it's our position, even

work with
w
22
though they have a -- I think you guys have some sort of

th
FR
IE
21
11:14:23
2
23
sharing agreement or cooperation agreement with the DOJ Civil
24
Rights Division, but that you cannot share -- it's our position
25
as defendants you cannot share this conversation with DOJ until
11:14:40

we clear it with our, you know, compatriots over at the Jones,
Skelton law firm and then get back with you.
there's no purpose for having confidentiality in this hearing.

.
.C
OM
Otherwise,
But we will work with the plaintiffs, and this is

s
not -- so it's clear for the plaintiffs and clear for the
e
Court, we're not trying to compartmentalize this and

nd use the
th
protective order seal of the Court to accomplish

sh any nefarious
nefa
activity in one litigation or game the system

there.
tem
em there
th
.
not happening.
11:14:58
BO
That's
So we'll work with you, but we can't

agree at
ca
can
this point for you to go call, pursuant

uant to
t a cooperation
c
11
agreement, call the DOJ and share

them yet.
e this with
wi
13
MS. WANG:
14
THE COURT:
11:15:17
Any concern
that, Ms. Wang?
cern about
ab
EF
THE COURT:
No, Your
ur Honor.
Honor
All right.
right
TH
12
OG
10
It is my understanding that
regardless of whatever
agreement
you have with the Department
tev
agree
gre
16
of Justice, this
his suit
sui is this suit.
17
and the seal

ea applies
applie to this suit and it applies to you, and
18
you cannot
this information with the Department of
nnot
no share
sha
19
Justice
unless and until I authorize you to do so.
stice
tic unles
11:15:31
The confidentiality order
ND
OF
15
That being said, I do not intend, as I've already

T
20
indicated, to keep this matter under seal any longer than it

indica
indic
22
has to be kept under seal, so I expect both parties to keep me

ha
FR
IE
21
11:15:48
2
23
apprised as to their position with respect to that.
24
MS. WANG:
25
THE COURT:
Understood.
Have I taken care of all of your concerns?
11:16:01

MS. WANG:
issue with the -- the retention policy being promulgated.

THE COURT:
3
4
All right.
And that, the monitor will
consult with both of you after this hearing.
.C
OM
Yes, Your Honor, other than the pending
I do recognize, Ms. Wang, for what it's worth,

, that
th
this information does seem to implicate whether or not
disclosure was fully made to the plaintiffs in this actio

action it
may have further ramifications for this lawsuit,

it is, of
suit,
suit
, but
t i
course, at this time premature to speculate

late about what, if any,
BO
such implications there may be.
OG
10
extension in the time to respond

pond in the Ninth Circuit, that is
13
a matter over which I have

jurisdiction.
ve no juris
14
me, and I would just offer on th

the record, that it would be
t
15
incumbent upon defendants

fe
fen
nts
s to
t offer you an extension of time,
16
just as I expect
are not going to commit perjury in
ect that
tha they
th
17
any other l
lawsuit
because of what they've talked about today,
wsuit
su
b
bec
18
and they
well
ey
y may w
l want to give you an extension of time for
19
them
to get an arm -- their arms around what you
em
m to
t be able
ab
20
also want to get your arms around, but I will leave that to
21
you,
Casey.
you
yo
, Mr.
M
It would seem to
11:16:52
IE
ND
OF
TH
EF
12
FR
11:16:38
To the extent that you might reasonably

seek an
reaso
ea
11
22
11:16:16
MR. CASEY:
11:17:14
Your Honor, Eileen GilBride at
2
23
Jones, Skelton is lead appellate counsel, but I'll represent to
24
plaintiff that if she will contact Eileen and I, they will have
25
an extension.
Whatever we can get from the Ninth Circuit we
11:17:26

will give it to the plaintiffs, because that is in the best
interest of all the parties and the proverbial the interest to
the justice system, so that will happen.

MS. WANG:
.C
OM
Well, I'll consult with the rest of our

ur
plaintiffs' counsel team.
not seek an extension of time on the answering brief,

ef,
ef
, but
bu we'll
w '
we
consult with defense counsel about next steps in the Ninth

Nint
Circuit case.
All right.
BO
THE COURT:
I don't know whether we will

l or will
il
I will say that I had intended
to finally take up the matter of attorneys'

fees, which has
torney ' fe
torneys
f
11
been fully briefed, in the matter

r next week,
week but I may defer
we
12
that, pending my determination

whether or not that time
on as
s to
t wh
13
period needs to be extended

revisited.
ded
d or otherwise
othe
the
11:17:52
EF
OG
10
How long is your tape that

you had to show us?
t
15
(Pause in
n proceedings.)
proceedin
edi
16
MS. WANG:
WANG:
TH
14
11:18:23
Your Honor, do you intend to have a hearing
OF
17
11:17:39
on the fee motion?

otion
ti ?
COURT:
THE
HE C
R
18
MS WANG:
MS.
ND
19
THE COURT:
T
20
Well, would you like one?
Yes.
I'll tell you what:
After I have my arms
around it, I'll determine whether I want a hearing or not.

aroun
22
I'll take into account that you've requested one.

I'
FR
IE
21
11:18:34
2
23
MS. WANG:
All right, Your Honor.
Thank you.
24
THE COURT:
Um-hum.
25
MR. CASEY:
Your Honor, there are two that I remember
11:18:46

pretty clearly.
One is very -- very short.
than five minutes.
It might be less
It's the pull-over with the woman driver.
Okay, you say 10 minutes.
And then there's another one that we watched that's

t's
s
.C
OM
problematic that's quite lengthy, but you can get a flavor.

avor
or.
It's maybe 20, 25 minutes, maybe longer, but you're

e going
goin to
t
get a flavor of what's going on there within the

he first 10.
10
All right.
10
MR. CASEY:
Okay.
11
Sir, what is your name?
12
SERGEANT BENTZEL:
Sergeant
Bentzel.
Sergean Jason
Ja
13
MR. CASEY:
And who do I need to give this CD
to?
THE CLERK:
K:
15
MR.
R CASEY:
CA
CASEY
:
25
OG
ND
24
11:19:25
Do you have a D -- do you have a computer?
clerk.)
clerk.)
IE
FR
2
23
Oh,
thought you were going to play it on
h, I t
(Off-the-record
discussion between the Court and the
(
Off
21
22
Okay.
y.
I apologize.
ogize
gize.
.
19
20
I apologize.
apolo
apologi
your own --
17
18
11:19:15
OF
16
And I ask
Court's indulgence.
sk
k the Cour
Cou
EF
14
please.
TH
Why don't you spin th

them up,
BO
THE COURT:
11:19:04
Honor?
Ho
MR. CASEY:
11:19:42
Would you like to take a quick break, Your
Five minutes?
THE COURT:
All right.
We'll take a five-minute break
while you set that up.

MR. CASEY:
11:19:48

(Recess taken.)
THE COURT:
Please be seated.
MR. CASEY:
Your Honor, the first, with the Court's
.C
OM
permission, Ken Holmes, we have queued up the video.
Before
ore we
start, I'd like to have Ken Holmes, in 10 seconds or so,

o, give
you his general understanding of orientating you on

n this
particular video that you're going to see.

CAPTAIN HOLMES:

onor.
onor
.
This is typical of some of the five or si

six that we
BO
noted out of the 250, 'cause most of

appear to be good
f which
whic app
ap
11
traffic stops.
OG
10
EF
know what the reason was for

stop.
or the
th st
We're picking it up
14
right here after the stop

already occurred.
sto has
h
a
al
15
approaching a couple
middle-aged individuals.
pl of
ple
f midd
mid
TH
13
OF
17
we're not sure

accurate.
s re
e if that's
t
tha
18
know, 0040
4 hours.
hou
19
midnight,
dnig , and we can see that it's daylight.
dnight
20
the time --
11:31:13
Clearly, it isn't the, you
That would be something a little after
ND
IE
21
FR
He's
And one oth

thing I want to mention, the date stamp,
other t
16
THE COURT:
So the date and

11:31:31
The date would be February 25th, 2010, if
accurate?
ac
2
23
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
24
THE COURT:
25
11:30:54
This is a stop, we don't

how it was -- we don't
don t know
k
12
22
11:30:35
We don't know for certain.
All right.
would be an eyeglass cam?
And it looks to me like this

11:31:41

CAPTAIN HOLMES:
That is correct, yes.
THE COURT:
(Video clip played.)
MR. CASEY:
(Video clip paused.)
THE COURT:
I saw it.
MR. CASEY:
Okay.
THE COURT:
-- trying to point out

t the dash
h camera?
MR. CASEY:
Yeah.
.C
OM
Okay.
Stop the video.
11:36:19
BO
Were you --
I just wanted
ed to point
poin out for the
Court and for the plaintiffs that if

in 2010, that
f this is i
11
appeared to us to be a dash cam.

MS. WANG:
Uh-huh.
13
MR. CASEY:
Okay.
y.
aware of that.
And I just
wanted the Court to be
j
TH
14
THE COURT:
T:
Thank
hank
nk you.
y
16
(Video
played, then paused.)
eo clip pla
11:36:32
OF
15
MR.
R CASEY:
CA
CASEY
:
17
Your Honor, I just wanted to point out
what is
s on
o the lower portion of this screen right here at the
19
4552
52
2 mark is what we understand to be the mobile computer --
ND
18
MDC?
M
21
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
22
MR. CASEY:
FR
IE
20
11:38:35
Mobile data computer.
Mobile data computer.
2
23
that is.
24
in 2005 and went back in in '07, so --
25
11:36:24
EF
12
OG
10
Just that's what
That was what was mentioned that the board authorized
Please continue.
11:38:47

(Video clip played, then paused.)
MR. CASEY:
That would be --
Your Honor, basically, what happens, the rest of it

t is
4
5
Just queue it up for the next one.
.C
OM
Okay.
he ends up, you know, releasing-citing him.
11:42:04
The next video that we'd like to share with

th you is
s a
much longer one, and I don't -- it's entirely up to the

Court
th C
and the parties, but it's essentially a traffic

turns
affic
ffic stop that
t
into a debate match -- I'm going to put this diplomatically,

dipl
diplo
BO
because it's on the record, it may be

e unsealed
unseale -- it turns into
11
a debate match, into a "You're going

oing to be
b arrested," and
12
ultimately ends up 40 minutes,

whatever time it is later, a
s, or
r whate
w
13
cite and release.
I think that's
s the
he most
os -- probably the most it's
TH
14
appropriate for me
e to
t say
y at
a this, but it's been designated
16
internally at the MCSO

as problematic.
MC
a
17
18
THE
H COURT:
CO
COURT
:
All right.
MR.
MR
R. CASEY:
C E
So that would be the Jacobs, Part 1, and
let's
please.
t's
s start
art that,
t
THE COURT:
T
20
Just before you start it, have you
(Video clip played momentarily, then paused.)
2
23
MR. CASEY:
Please stop that.
24
THE COURT:
Have you identified the two persons that
RI
22
25
11:42:51
identified -identi
ident
21
11:42:41
OF
15
19
11:42:23
EF
OG
10
we just viewed be detained?
I'm sorry?
11:42:56

MR. CASEY:
Captain Holmes?
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. CASEY:
And the other thing, I'd like to just

t
Thank you.
.C
OM
Not at this time, no.
point out on this why we're queueing this up.
obviously, just almost a year ago, and we don't know

ow the
accuracy of this, either.
we watch this it does have the computer dash,

h, as you
u can see
this, in the car.
BO
Excuse me.
It does have the

in there,
th MDS
M
MD
and also there is also the dash cam that we also

observed.
a
al
5:06 p.m., which, since we're

in
e already
alrea
i May, we know that at
13
5:06 the ambient light conditions

different than this.
onditions
ditions are
a
14
This is very dark.
15
there's actually a discussion

about, What the heck are you
d cussio
ssi
16
doing out at 2:00

:00 a.m.?
a.m.?
17
correct time,
although
the date may be correct.
m
altho
althoug
EF
12
OF
TH
And
course of the extended stop
nd during the
t
Thank you, Your
ND
Honor.
nor
or.
(Video clip played, then paused.)
21
MR. CASEY:
IE
20
FR
11:43:48
So it appears that that's not a
So
o if you would please start it.
18
22
11:43:27
And you can see that this

is seems to be indicating
11
19
11:43:09
I will represent to the Court when
OG
10
This is dated,
dated
at ,
11:50:17
Your Honor, next basically he's -- Charley
Armendariz' voice, as I recognize it, instructs the witness

Arm
Ar
2
23
basically to be quiet.
Then there's an exchange.
24
outside.
25
Armendariz is exercising his authority.
He takes him
There's more debating where it appears that

And it goes back and
11:50:31

forth, and the guy, as I understand it, is cited and released.
Is that accurate --
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
MR. CASEY:
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
THE COURT:
11
11:50:43
How long does the stop -- what's

t's the
th
CAPTAIN HOLMES:
My best recollection,
about 25
ion,
ion
, it was
w
BO
10
Yes.
duration of the stop?
8
9
-- Captain Holmes?
minutes.
MR. CASEY:
We can watch all

Honor, but I
ll of it,
it
t, Your
Y
OG
That's correct.
.C
OM
just -- as a courtesy, I just wanted

you know it's -nted to let
l
THE COURT:
13
Is there anything
ng more you want to see, Chief?
14
CHIEF WARSHAW:
W:
15
THE COURT:
T:
16
MS. WANG:
WANG:
No, Your Honor.
THE
COURT:
H COURT
CO
:
-- Ms. Wang?
TH
sir.
No sir
No,
si
OF
Anything
more you want to see -Anythin
thi
-- I guess I'm not going to assume.

I assume
ass
IE
ND
S
18
I appreciate
ciate that.
that
t
EF
12
17
11:51:04
I'm
19
going
order, and I think I already have, that all these
ing to orde
20
materials be made available to the monitor, and you've
21
indicated that you're going to give full compliance.

indica
indic
22
Let me just say -- make a few observations.
FR
11:50:53
11:51:12
I do
2
23
appreciate the MCSO coming forward with this information
24
voluntarily.
25
organization and it does cause me grave concern.
I'm sure it's very embarrassing to them as an

11:51:26

As a result, however, I am going to say that to the
extent that the MCSO is going to undertake this investigation
on its own, and if the plaintiff is going to take the position

n
that I have the authority, somehow, to remove the MCSO from

om
this investigation, I guess I'd invite you to submit that

hat
t
authority, but I'm not sure that I have it.
that the MCSO is going to pursue this investigation

ation on its
it own,
I do believe that I am extremely interested in my

being
m monitor
mo
moni
proscriptive and involved.
.C
OM
11:51:46
BO
But to
o the extent
exten
t
To the extent that the MCSO

O wants
want to reject
11:52:03
OG
10
suggestions made by my monitor, I

I'm
to direct the monitor
'm going t
12
to tell me that they've rejected

suggestions, and why,
cted those
th
13
and I'll let you explain that

that.
hat.
.
14
light of the potential

al
l conflicts
conflict of interest -- and I'm not
15
trying to suggest th
that you
haven't been as honorable as
ou h
16
possible, given
information that you have -- it's very
en the info
17
important t
that
at
t there
r be very close observation.
EF
11
TH
OF
ND
you
present.
u were pres
It seems to me --
MR. CASEY:
M
Sandy Wilson?
21
THE COURT:
I'm sorry, yes, I said Sandi Miller.
IE
20
FR
22
11:52:18
We've
We
e've just had a session with Sandi Miller at which
18
19
But it seems to me that in
Sandi Wilson, at which you were present.

Sa
11:52:35
Yes,
It seems to me that
2
23
the nature of the task involved here in monitoring this
24
investigation alone, which could be extremely far reaching, is
25
going to involve a great deal of resources from the monitor.
11:52:47

And I don't know, Mr. Liddy, if you want to advise --
or if any party's going to object if you advise your folks at
MCAO that any cap is probably going to be a ridiculous thought

t
here.
is, maybe that's a little bit of a rash statement, but in

n any
y
case, this is going to involve substantial additional

nal
responsibility by the monitor, and I just want to make th

that
clear and placed on the record.
.C
OM
And in any case, I don't -- I don't know what the cap

p
BO
11:53:15
I do recall as I observed the videotape -- and I do
again thank you for bringing it forward,

disclosure of
ward,
ward
, and
nd the
t
11
it -- that one of the things on which I did

didn't make findings,
d
12
because I didn't have sufficient

evidence, involved a stop by
ient eviden
ev
13
Deputy Armendariz against

t the named plaintiffs in this case,
14
and I believe that the

do relate to what I may have
e allegations
allegati
allegatio
15
just seen, and so I take

Ms. Wang's suggestion that there in
ke Ms
16
fact may be additional

matters
that are required for this case.
ddition
dditional
m
11:53:32
OF
TH
EF
OG
10
11:53:49
But
course,
I do recognize that that is only a
u of cour
u
17
possibility
ility
ity and
an at this point is very premature.
We need to
19
get
t ou
our arms around everything that I'm sure the MCSO is going
20
to want to get their arms around as much as I do, and to the
21
extent that there's any question about that, I'm going to

exten
22
require the monitor to inform any concerns he has that the MCSO
re
2
23
is not fully and completely cooperating in an independent and
24
thorough investigation of all of this would give rise to.
11:54:14
RI
18
25
Anything else you'd like to say, Mr. Casey?
11:54:35

MR. CASEY:
Yes, I'd like to address your order, your
direction.
I looked over at Chief Sheridan when you said the
monitor is to be involved; the monitor is to have input; the
monitor is to give advise, recommendation.
that was agreeable, is that correct, sir?
MR. CASEY:
I want to make sure I'm
BO
Okay.
Yes, it is.
understanding what my client is telling me

because I want to
me, becaus
becau
represent to you, in answer to your question,
question, that that will be
11
done.
12
client is agreeable to having

monitor's involvement in
g the m
monit
13
doing that.
14
going to resolve them as

adults.
a adults
15
difficulties, then
we'll
n w
ll be back in front of you.
It's in front
nt of the Court.
My
TH
Again, if there's
here
re's
s any
ny issues, hopefully we're
If there are any big
OF
18
issue that
the Meraz-Nieto stop, and in candor I
ha you addressed,
d
IE
ND
S
of candor i
is that
Mr.
Liddy and I have talked about the very
th
M
Mr
19
talked
lked
ked to
o Dan Pochoda and Cecillia Wang before they saw the
20
videotape.
videotape
21
something popped in my mind.

someth
somet
FR
11:55:19
The second thin

thing I wish to address to you as a matter
17
22
11:55:02
EF
It's on the record.
OG
10
16
11:54:50
I understand that I received an affirmative nod

od that
t
.C
OM
And when I saw that last -- that first episode,
11:55:37
What effect it's going to have on any of your
2
23
evidentiary rulings is unknown.
But what's important about
24
this is what we need to do, and that's gather information, as
25
embarrassing as it is, is to find out what's out there.
11:55:53

I do want to point out for the Court that this is --
1
2
just be mindful, because my just is an advocate.
truth to seek here and we're going to do that.
advocate, I also wanted to point out that we have one deputy

uty
y
who obviously was in a dark place mentally, spiritually,

ly,
otherwise, that ended up in a desperate act of taking

ing his own
life.
think to whomever, but my understanding is that the deputy

had
de
in his system methamphetamine and cocaine.

ne.
ne
.
.C
OM
But as an
BO
test for mind -- like LSD.
were unable to
They w
11:56:46
It is our hope that what

here is a rogue
at we have
ve h
11
person.
That's what we hope.

.
can tell you that the

But
ut I ca
13
sheriff and his chief are

e absolutely
absolutel committing to seeing the
14
truth out, whatever it

t may be, and holding any and all persons
15
responsible, whatever
ev
eve
might
ght be the outcome.
16
it's a rogue, it's

it s an
a outlier.
ou
17
to be, and we're

to find out, and the Court's going to
're
r going
go
goin
18
find out
the monitor's going to find out.
ut and t
It's our hope that
11:57:08
But whatever it is it's going
OF
TH
EF
12
And this is a very good thing for the community, it's
ND
19
for this office, and the Court needs to

a good thing
thi
21
understand, to the extent that it's appropriate for me to say

unders
under
22
that, that that is shared by these folks.

th
IE
20
FR
11:56:17
The toxicology report will soon be made available,

available I
OG
10
We have the
11:57:29
That's why we came
2
23
to you.
It's not a matter of telling you we've got a problem
24
so you can be easy on us; it's a matter that we've got an issue
25
and we need to solve it, and we know that more minds are better
11:57:45

than a single mind on the issue.
the Court's time.

THE COURT:
Thank you.
With that, I thank you for
I'm going to make one other
.C
OM
observation that may not be really truly related to what we do

d
under seal, and I may say it in public, but I think it bears

ea
being said so that nobody will misunderstand and misunderstand

isunderstan
that I am punishing them when I'm not punishing

g them
them.
.
We have had a request, and we need to -- we

e need to
BO
8
9
proceed with the rest of the implementation,

the extent we
tion,
tion
, to
t th
t
10
can, of my order, and that involves training;

training; it involves
11
instruction; it involves approval

it involves
al
l of curriculum;
curric
rr
12
other matters.
EF
OG
11:58:16
Now, one of the things

that we're involved here is
hings tha
13
with the approval of training,

trainin , and Mr. Liddy, you raised with
training
15
me last time whether

would be an appropriate trainer.
he you
her
ou wou
wo
16
after that hearing

over,
I'm going to tell you, I did watch
aring was
w
o
17
the news that

h t night.
night
OF
TH
14
And
11:58:33
I watched you in your interview.
what
And
nd w
t you did was, I think, completely appropriate.
18
You
u did
di what a lawyer should do, and that is you represented
20
defended your client, and you did it on television, and

and defend
21
is your job to do.

that i
22
that some of the things he said in his solicitation brochure

th
IE
ND
19
FR
11:57:58
11:58:51
And in that process, you represented
2
23
did not violate the Court's order, something to that effect as
24
I recall the interview.
25
that was a complete and appropriate fulfillment of your role,
I understand that.
I understand that
11:59:13

and in fact it may be the appropriate position to take.

But it makes me think, in light of the fact that there
have been statements, and I've indicated that the sheriff can
make these statements in public and represent his department

ent
t
however he wishes to the public, that allowing you, or
requiring you to represent the sheriff does not make

ke you
somebody who I think is appropriate to involve as an inst

instructor
in the course.
.C
OM
BO
11:59:28
Similarly, I'm going to find the

he same
sam as
a to Chief
MacIntyre.
He may be a great police

e officer
officer,
, and he may, in
11
other settings, be wonderful for training

training.
12
to take the position -- and again,

again, I'm
I'm not saying it's an
13
inappropriate position -- if he
to take the lead
he's
s going
g
14
position in saying that

sheriff's
department hasn't
at the
he sher
he
15
racially profiled he
here,
it's important that the
h
, I think
t
th
16
officers, and the instru

instruction that we give the officers, not be
in
17
involved in
of a question.
n that
ha kind
i
11:59:47
But if he is going
12:00:04
OF
TH
EF
OG
10
So
o it isn't that I think he's an inappropriate
18
instructor
structor
tructor in general or that I doubt his qualifications or
20
bona fides,
fides but I'm not going to be approving him as somebody
21
to be giving that instruction.
22
and I think it is especially underlined and important while the

an
12:00:19
I want somebody who is neutral,
FR
IE
ND
19
2
23
MCSO is undergoing this investigation that relates so closely
24
to the instruction.
25
I've indicated today that Mr. Irish has to be walled
12:00:37

off from the sheriff's -- from Sandi Wilson, and that all the
rest of you do, too.
respect to providing training and instruction for the reasons
that I have just stated.
.C
OM
And that may well be my position with
That being said, I do appreciate what you've said

said,
i ,
Mr. Casey, and I expect that you know that I will hold you
to
y
it.
clients as much of a favor as I am the plaintiffs,

intiffs
ntiff , because
b
bec
whatever the truth is here, it has to come

ome out
out.
BO
And I believe that in doing so, I'm doing you and your
yo
o
And it may
A
well be that it is one rogue police officer,

but if it is not,
officer b
11
we need to make every effort to assure

assur the
th public that it is
12
not, and that the investigation

been as thorough as it
ion has bee
13
could possibly be under the

and as intelligent,
e circumstances
circums
14
and that is what I intend

tend to
t implement.
im
imp
TH
And I appreciate
the sheriff's avowal that that will
pr iate
prec
e th
t
be the case, the chief
deputy's
avowal that that will be the
chi
d
17
case, and t
that
at
t all in their department who have any role with
18
this will
ill
l make it
t the case and will not be dealing to the
IE
ND
S
19
department's
partment's
partment
's self-interest, to my self-interest, to the
20
plaintiffs' self-interest, or anybody else's self-interest, but

plaintiffs
21
the truth.
to uncovering
un
unc
FR
12:01:49
Is there anything else that needs to be said?
2
23
MS. WANG:
24
First, we also objected to Chief Deputy Sheridan
25
12:01:34
OF
16
22
12:01:13
EF
OG
10
15
12:00:55
Your Honor, briefly, two points.
serving as a trainer.
Does the Court have a ruling on that?
12:02:03

THE COURT:
Again, Chief Deputy Sheridan, I am not
prohibiting you from training and other exercises, nor do I
mean to suggest to you that I disapprove of your activity.
I believe that under the circumstances in which you publicly

cly
y
declined to sign the corrective statement -- and again,

that's
, that
th
's
s
your right.
statement.
my view of you correcting yourself in front of your

officers so
y
of
there wouldn't be any question about your

unbiased
ur providing
providi
providin
11
.C
OM
BO
That would have made life a lot easier

terms
of
sier in ter
er
teaching.
12:02:42
And so we went through the correct

corrective
step.
re
I do
acknowledge, and I did last week,

you undertook all of
week that
t
13
those steps that I asked you

ou to.
to
14
don't see any need, in

n this -- in
i this training where the
15
training has to be
e unbiased
u iased
sed and correct, and have the
16
appearance of impropriety,
I just think it's more appropriate
improp
impropriet
17
that you pursue

investigation you're pursuing now, and so I
pu ue the
e i
18
am not going t
to approve Chief Sheridan as an instructor.
EF
12
But I just
12:02:58
IE
ND
S
OF
TH
I'll
do it again.
I
Again, not -- I intend nothing personally about your

Agai
20
integrity or anything else, sir, like I don't try to impugn
21
integrity or Mr. Irish's integrity.

Mr Liddy's
Mr.
L
Li
22
doing the job that you have to do as a party in this lawsuit,

do
FR
19
12:02:22
I'm not going to make you sign the corrective

rrecti
rrective
OG
10
But
ut
2
23
as well as a participant in trying to find the truth, and I'm
24
just going to seal you off from any perceived conflicts in
25
those roles.
That's why.
12:03:17
But you're all
12:03:35

Anything else?
MS. WANG:
The final point, Your Honor, is we
appreciate defendants' candor in coming forward with this
information and clueing us as plaintiffs into it.
reaction to Mr. Casey's comments.
.C
OM
I do have
ave a
12:03:49
I think it's understandable that defense counsel

counse hopes
h
hop
that Deputy Armendariz was a rogue officer and that the

th problem
p
is limited to him.
was limited, that does not appear to me to be the

he case.
BO
Just based on what we've

which
e seen
see today,
toda
o
There
are at a minimum very serious problems

supervision, with
ems with sup
s
11
MCSO's complaint process, and those

ose things
thing are true even if no
12
other deputies were engaged in this sor

sort of conduct, and that's
13
something that we don't know

ow yet.
ye .
yet
I think it's critical f

for MCSO, currently as the sole
TH
14
investigating agency,
nc
ncy
not
t to
t go into the investigation with a
16
presupposition
n about the outcome or a desired outcome, but
17
approach that
with an open mind to wherever it
h t investigation
inves
investi
18
may lead.
ad
d.
IE
ND
S
THE COURT:
I do agree, but I also agree that it's
20
appropriate for Mr. Casey, as an advocate for the MCSO, to

appropriat
21
present the most favorable possibility for the MCSO, just as it

presen
prese
22
is appropriate for you, as an advocate for the plaintiffs, to
FR
12:04:30
OF
15
19
12:04:09
EF
OG
10
2
23
present the least favorable possibility for the MCSO.
24
fortunately, we're going to find the facts, and we will let the
25
facts make the determination here.
12:04:48
And
12:05:09

Thank you all for your participation this morning.
do remind everyone here, especially my friends at the marshal's
office, even though I have complete confidence in you, this is

s
not something to be discussed with your colleagues or anyone

one
else.
courtroom.
allowing this material to be removed from seal.
.C
OM
And that goes, of course, for anybody else in this

his
s
Thank you.
MR. CASEY:
(Proceedings concluded at 12
12:05
p.m.)
2:05 p.m
m.)
.
OG
10
Thank you.
11
EF
12
13
TH
14
18
ND
19
17
OF
15
16
20
IE
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
BO
It will not be discussed until I enter an order
12:05:26

1
C E R T I F I C A T E
.C
OM
3
4
5
I, GARY MOLL, do hereby certify that I am duly

dul
appointed and qualified to act as Official Court Reporter

for
Repor
p
the United States District Court for the

e District of Arizona.
BO
I FURTHER CERTIFY that the foregoing pages constitute
OG
10
a full, true, and accurate transcript

all of that portion of
script
cript of
f al
12
the proceedings contained herein,

in the above-entitled
rein, had
rein
h
i
13
cause on the date specified

ied
d therein,
therein and that said transcript
14
was prepared under my

y direction and control.
TH
EF
11
16
DATED
Arizona, this 15th day of May,
A ED
D at Phoenix,
P
Pho
17
2014.
ND
19
18
OF
15
20
IE
21
FR
22
2
23
24
25
s/Gary Moll

Melendres # 700 - May 14 2014B Hearing Transcript D.ariz. - 2-07-Cv-02513 - 700

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

Melendres # 700 - May 14 2014B Hearing Transcript D.ariz. - 2-07-Cv-02513 - 700

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 700 Filed 05/14/14 Page 1 of 70

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA

Manuel de Jesus Ortega

Proceedings taken by stenographic court reporter

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 700 Filed 05/14/14 Page 2 of 70

Cecillia D. Wang, Esq.

For the Defendants:

Daniel J. Pochoda, Esq.

For the Plaintiffs:

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 700 Filed 05/14/14 Page 3 of 70

This is civil case 07-2513, Melendres

Arpaio, on for status conference.

Counsel, please announce.

Dan Pochoda, ACLU of Arizona,

Cecillia Wang of the

Good morning again, Your

Tim Casey, and

with me is co-counsel Tom

-- from Internal Affairs.

Sergeant Jason Bentzel, also from

And I think that will be it who may be

speaking to you, and I turn it over to you, Your Honor.

I'd like to see the parties

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 700 Filed 05/14/14 Page 4 of 70

alt sidebar, please.

(Bench conference on the record.)

Everybody knows our sidebar

mike is a little not sensitive enough, so when you speak,

please make sure you get close.

Ms. Wang, Mr. Pochoda, there are matters that have

come to my attention through the monitor, items

the MCSO to the monitor in good faith -MR. POCHODA:

and perhaps now areas of new investigation

preserve evidence must be kept

That being said,

lawsuit, as well as, perhaps

-- and who knows what, but because they

you have found.

And I've reviewed the order.

I can give you the --

the actual paragraph numbers that I think are applicable.

it would be my recommendation that I receive a motion to put

object if they want.

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 700 Filed 05/14/14 Page 5 of 70

Do I have such a motion?

To put it under seal?

I'm moving on behalf of the

that while Charley Armendariz has committed suicide,

longer subject to criminal charges, this is a criminal ongoing

investigation that may lead to other MCSO personnel,

involving witnesses, evidence potential tampering,

things like that.

And so even though

Charley Armendariz is no longer subject

penalties or criminal sanctions,

investigation that could lead

the public simply is

material definitely involves traffic stops here.

if I just say this pertains to a special operation as defined

by the order and so the Court is going to put this hearing --

So I don't think I'm misstating the facts

Case 2:07-cv-02513-GMS Document 700 Filed 05/14/14 Page 6 of 70