STATE OF MICHIGAN

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF OAKLAND

MAYA EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI,
Plaintiff,
v

Case No. 09-766749-DM

OMER G. TSIMHONI,
Defendant./

MOTION HEARING
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LISA GORCYCA
Pontiac, Michigan - Wednesday, November 12, 2014

APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiff:

RENEE K. GUCCIARDO (P47884)

30700 Telegraph Road, Suite 1580
Bingham Farms, Michigan 48025
(248) 723-5190

For the Defendant:

AMY SPILMAN (P52044)

600 South Adams, Suite 100
Birmingham, Michigan 48009
(248) 358-8880

Guardian Ad Litem:

WILLIAM LANSAT (P36752)

280 North Old Woodward, Suite 250
Birmingham, Michigan 48009
(248) 258-7074

Transcription by:

Sandra Traskos, CER 7118

Accurate Transcription Services
(734)944-5818

TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE

WITNESSES
None

EXHIBITS

RECEIVED

None offered.

Pontiac, Michigan

Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 11:10 a.m.

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* * * * * *
THE CLERK:

Court calls docket number 36,

Eibschitz-Tsimhoni vs. Tsimhoni, case number 09-766749-DM.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER:

getting Ms. Gucciardo out of the hallway.

MS. SPILMAN:

THE COURT:

Ready your Honor.

Good morning.

10

MS. GUCCIARDO:

11

MS. SPILMAN:

12
13
14
15

Your Honor just

Morning your Honor.

Morning, Amy Spilman standing in

for Keri Middleditch on behalf of the Defendant Father.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Renee Gucciardo on behalf of the

Plaintiff Maya.
MR. LANSAT:

Your Honor um--William Lansat GAL,

16

I asked the Court to--and I appreciate the Court and--and

17

all Counsel actually coming here today.

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a thorough report, everyones had it.

I frankly do not

19

know what to do anymore on this case.

Um--Ms. Steeb had a

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copy of it.

21

courthouse here.

22

is we just cannot continue, the library, the dog, the

23

status quo, it just cannot happen.

Your Honor I did

You were present when it was done at the

I--I--we cannot--all I can say right now

24

THE COURT:

Ms. Steeb?

25

MS. STEEB:

Judge I agree with the Guardian Ad

3

Litem on this.

here at the Court trying to facilitate parenting time

between--

Um--after spending almost two full days

THE COURT:

By the way, the Court appreciated

you trying to do that.

other cases you needed to work on for those days.

Thank you.

MS. STEEB:

You didnt have any

It was virtually impossible to get

the three children um--into the room.

It was very

difficult to get mom away from the children um--and

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frankly there isnt I--I--without everybody being in one

11

central location I, like Mr. Lansat, am out of ideas for

12

how to facilitate this relationship.

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THE COURT:

Okay.

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MS. SPILMAN:

Your Honor our client is on his

15

way to Michigan as we speak.

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will be here um--this evening.

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hes available to spend time with the children um--if we

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can facilitate that.

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Lansat has suggested um--if we could have the parties meet

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as he proposes at the courthouse with the Sheriff present

21

and help him get the children into the car--

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THE COURT:

Hes flying from Israel.

He

I have his schedule that

We are willing to abide by what Mr.

Wait--wait--is that the Sheriffs

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that arent working on that murder trial--that murder case

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that just happened.

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working around the clock for that murder that just

That--so these--the deputies that are

happened in Waterford the home invasion where

unfortunately a man was killed.

this.

officers to do.

Okay, I agree.

5
6

Well then certainly just at--maybe

a police station-THE COURT:

Oh, no, no Im not--it wasnt

against you.

9
10

Thats what we pay our police

MS. SPILMAN:

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8

They should be working on

MS. SPILMAN:

--Im not sure what Mr. Lansat has

in mind.

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THE COURT:

Your client needs protection.

Im

12

just ready in all honesty just to swi--I can hear from Ms.

13

Gucciardo before I say what Im ready to do.

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15

MS. GUCCIARDO:

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Thank you.

I appreciate that.

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17

That would be great.

THE COURT:
it.

Because you were not going to like

(Indiscernible).
MS. GUCCIARDO:

Your Honor the re--the reality

19

of the situation is I think that Mr. Tsimhoni is ah--he

20

plays the system--you know he--when he goes for the

21

parenting time he says in Hebrew to the children, better

22

behave or Ill destroy your mother.

Obviously that upsets

23

the children, things dont go well.

My client has advised

24

me that um--that in addition to that mister--both of the

25

parents tal--were emailing each other and they agreed to

5

meet on Friday to discuss this.

They both agreed to talk

about the parenting time on Friday.

come here to Court on an emergency basis, notifying of

this on Monday afternoon that we needed to be here, no

notice or anything like that.

talk.

to get everybody all wound up and act like theres a

problem.

meet with him on Friday to work out a parenting plan.

Theres no need to

They had an agreement to

But instead of just abiding by that, then hes got

10

Theres not a problem here.

Shes agreeable to

Now I would note that the last time the--that

11

ah--the sit--the parenting time took place in Court I was

12

not here.

13

clients story as to what happened.

14

tells me is that ah--Mr. Lansat came out and told the

15

children that they were going to go to jail if they didnt

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um--if they didnt go with their father right then and

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there--that their mother was going to go to jail and the

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children were terrified by that.

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from there.

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a--there is a problem in terms of the childrens

21

relationship obviously with their father.

22

ongoing problem and to have this kind of threat to their

23

mother, who theyre extremely bonded with, it didnt make

24

things any better.

25

kids relaxed was when you came out and you gave them a

I heard Mr. Lansats story and I heard my

And what my client

And it went downhill

And it was an aggressive situation.

There is

Its been an

She said that the only time that the

high five or something.

shes got more to say about that situation but shes

trying to facilitate this.

tells them to go, tells them to do this, theres not one

report that says that shes not doing that.

I dont know.

I wasnt here and

All of the reports say she

The children have their own relationship with

their father.

And as I have said over and over again, Dr.

Erard (ph) interviewed these kids while the Federal case

was going on.

He verified that there is a tremendous

10

fracture between the parent--between Mr. Tsimhoni and the

11

children because they felt like he was trying to kidnap

12

them and keep them in that country against their will.

13

Thats a problem.

14

country and choosing to work in Israel has not helped the

15

situation because weve got a fractured relationship--I

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mean every single time that Omer comes back to see the

17

children theres all of this--this ah--these feelings go--

18

before the parenting time takes place, it never goes well.

19

He plays games, we talked about it the last time.

20

kids do well at the restaurant, instead of doing that he

21

tries to change it and force it to something else.

22

forces, forces, forces things.

23

and change things so that the children get upset and its

24

an ongoing game and then he pre--tries to present that

25

shes the problem.

As Ive said before, him leaving the

The

And he

He tries to force things

She has bent over backwards to try and make sure

that this takes place.

same--its the same thing.

So any type of healing that they might have its

repetitive.

It just never stops, largely because hes in a different

country and hes not here to try and work out this

problem.

But then after its done its the

He leaves and they come back.

Its like ripping a Band-Aid off of a scab.

Mom has taken the children, taken--sat during

10

their um--dinners, allowed him to come to her house, done

11

everything she can think of to make this ti--this pl--take

12

place.

13

the problem, shes not, not one person can say that shes

14

not there telling the kids to go.

15

he has created.

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try and continuously blame her and--and say that youre

17

ready to switch custody thats not fair and thats not in

18

the childrens best interest and theres no evidence that

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its her.

20

all of the--the things that mis--that Omer is doing and--

21

and--and ah--the games that he plays and the manipulation,

22

thats where you need to look at.

23

problem is.

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25

Its easy to blame her and look at her that shes

This is something that

Hes reaping what hes sown and--and to

Its easy to point at her but when you look at

Thats where the

Now in terms of the parenting time, of course he

can have the parenting time.
8

I dont think its a good

idea to have the deputies do it again because theyre

afraid of the deputies cuz of what happened last time.

And she can address that with you better but theyre

scarred by that.

happened.

They were very, very upset by what

THE COURT:

All right.

Thank you Ms. Gucciardo.

Youre very eloquent.

Ah--I just drafted up my own order

and I havent signed it yet but Im about to.

the Lisa and I did the G.

I started

The Court finds by clear and

10

convincing evidence that it would endanger the childrens

11

mental health if they were to remain in mothers custody.

12

The Court grants on a temporary basis sole and physical

13

custody to father pending an evidentiary hearing.

14

like to hear from you mother because Im about to sign

15

orcyca onto the G.

16

scarred by it and if Im scarred at almost 50 years old--

17

Ive never ever read a report like Mr. Lansats in 41,000

18

cases.

19

respect both of these people more than you would ever

20

know.

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you.

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figure it out.

I would

Because what I saw, mother, I am

Ive never read a report like Ms. Steebs who--I

Never read anything and the common denominator is

So Im ready to put orcyca on it and then well

23

MS. GUCCIARDO:

24

MR. LANSAT:

25

THE COURT:

Well your Honor I would--

Your Honor I would-And well have a hearing--well have

9

a hearing right away.

2
3

MS. GUCCIARDO:
what--

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5

THE COURT:

MR. LANSAT:

THE COURT:

I know you werent but Ive had it.

Ive had it.

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11

Your Honor just for the record, I

wasnt asking for--

8
9

Just wait, I want to hear from

mother.

6
7

--you know what no--you know

MR LANSAT:

--just--(indiscernible) mother I was

just asking to change the parenting time.

12

THE COURT:

Clearly.

Mom youre the problem and

13

everybody but Ms. Gucciardo and yourself can see it.

And

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your poor little kids, the damage that you have done to

15

your little kids and Ill make a great evidentiary hear--

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well have the hearing, emergency well do it right away.

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Well bunk everybody--well bump everybody, you can have

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your hearing and then--you know what--well--Ill make a

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nice record for the Court of Appeals.

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to your attorney and then come out here and say something

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to me?

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I signed Lisa G and thats official and Im not gonna

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sign--sign any stay that shes gonna ask me for.

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Court of Appeals may or may not hear it, because its not

25

a final order, so theyre not going to hear it so well do

So you want to talk

Because here it is, so you dont think Im lying,

10

And the

your hearing.

I can do it on my own motion.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

Your Honor um--

Well take a break---thank you.

--Ms. Gucciardo, I knew what you

were going to say.

(At 11:20 a.m., proceeding recessed)

(At 11:27 a.m., proceeding recalled)

THE CLERK:

10

Court recalls Eibschitz-Tsimhoni vs

Tsimhoni, case number 09-766749-DM.

11

MR. LANSAT:

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. SPILMAN:

14

MS. GUCCIARDO:

15
16
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William Lansat, GAL your Honor.

So unfair.
Amy Spilman for Defendant.
Renee Gucciardo on behalf of the

Plaintiff.
THE COURT:
resolution?

You have any reco--res--any

Otherwise Im gonna go ahead and sign this.

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MS. GUCCIARDO:

19

THE COURT:

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MS. GUCCIARDO:

Your Honor--

Over your objection of course.

--well I--I would appreciate

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that and--the reality is--is Maya is--and shell tell you

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herself, she has attempted to facilitate the relationship

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and she is going to continue to facil--to attempt to

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facilitate that.

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the recommendation um--so she will do that and she will do

She is in agreement with abiding by ah--

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everything in her power to facilitate the relationship and

what she--what shes always done and shes going to

continue to do that.

THE COURT:

I hope you dont do what youve

always done because its pathetic.

Pathetic.

And you

know youre lucky you have such a fabulous lawyer in Ms.

Gucciardo but nothing she says I believe and I--I mean

shes saying it with a straight face, maybe she believes

it but I was there and I saw what little you did, you did

10

less than nothing.

What--you did less with her, you did

11

less with him, we were there and were scarred and were

12

adults and your children deserve so much better than you

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as their mother, and you have me for six more years and

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two months.

15

its pathetic what you have done and obviously Im

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displeased is an understatement.

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MR. LANSAT:

18

THE COURT:

So I dont think youve done enough.

I think

Your Honor if-And youre not gonna do it.

Like

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you didnt comfort your children.

You didnt comfort your

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children at all with Tracy Steeb.

You didnt comfort your

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children at all with him.

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children in front of me.

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when were not around.

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shameful.

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MR. LANSAT:

You didnt comfort your

I can only imagine what you do

Its pathetic.

Its pathetic and

--your Honor if mothers in

12

agreement to get the children--however she wants to do it,

one at a time or all three into dads car when he takes

those child--or children--you know for several hours or

whatever, if shes willing to do it and it gets done, I

will be okay with that and we see where we go with it.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Your Honor the recommendation

was that each child separately or together be placed in

the fathers car by father directly and proceed without

mother for several hours.

Um--Art Gallagher should be

10

there and um--the initial park--pick up shall occur at the

11

courthouse parking lot with a deputy present.

12

by that.

13

that can um--see whats going on and to make sure that she

14

is attempting to facilitate this.

15

better than for Omer to have a good relationship with his

16

children.

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in the hallway with me. Thats what she wants.

18

him to have a good relationship with the children.

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that true?

Well agree

I think its good that theres a deputy there

Nothing better.

20

THE PLAINTIFF:

21

MR. LANSAT:

She would like nothing

She just reiterated that again

She wants
Is

Absolutely.

And--and then your Honor if it--if

22

at that point theres no success after a few days and we

23

do this, then I think you do what we need to do.

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willing to give mother that chance.

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we can-13

But Im

This is the best that

1
2

THE COURT:
09.

This case is from

Your poor children are--are--

3
4

How many chances?

MS. SPILMAN:

Your Honor we need--if this is

gonna happen we need specific dates and times.

THE COURT:

Was he--how long is he in Michigan

and then is he willing to take the kids to Israel?

is he wanting this?

Ill have to hold off when hes here.

9
10

I dont even know if he wants it so

MS. SPILMAN:
Honor.

I mean

I would want him to be here your

I dont know what his circumstances are--

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THE COURT:

Cuz maybe--

12

MS. SPILMAN:

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--he will be here this evening-Your Honor with all due respect

14

you cant do an order changing custody without having a

15

hearing.

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18
19

You cant.

We--theres no--

THE COURT:

Ms. Gucciardo I can actually I can,

I have, and I will.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--theres--theres no notice for

todays hearing, theres no motion--

20

THE COURT:

So Im gonna hold this off--

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MS. GUCCIARDO:

22

THE COURT:

--theres no pending motion--

--Im gonna put this in the file, my

23

private file, and um--well see how it goes and then if

24

hes willing to do it--if he wants to do it and has a plan

25

for--until we have the hearing.

14

Mom you dont get it.

You never will.

these people that dont--cant have kids.

I dont think you are--you know what--all

MR. LANSAT:

Your Honor can we have the order

then I will--its in the JOD anyways um--if theres--if

theres a disagreement on how to do it logistically Ill

just decide that thats how its gonna be.

should come back next Wednesday, see how things are going

in the morning.

well see if this works.

10

Maybe we

Ms. Gucciardo will have more time and

MS. SPILMAN:

If this works, this is great.

Your Honor hes here from this

11

evening, hes available to see the kids starting on

12

Friday.

13

available all weekend, after six on Monday and Tuesday.

14

Wednesday, if you wanted him to be here I believe hes

15

available but he has--I think he has a work meeting

16

between eight and 10, so if we can make it later in your

17

docket call that would be fine, but Im a little--not

18

comfortable leaving it just completely up in the air.

19

think there needs to--

He has work meetings tomorrow.

I know hes

20

THE COURT:

The balls in your court.

21

MR. LANSAT:

No well get an order.

22

MS. SPILMAN:

23

THE COURT:

24

about to be more in your court.

25

MR. LANSAT:

Whatever he wants?

The balls in your court and its

I think we should draft an order

15

now while were here.

MS. SPILMAN:

THE COURT:

So the--

And Im here all next week and you

can come in on an emergency basis any time to have the

motion heard.

Ill waive notice.

MS. SPILMAN:

So Im not clear what were

ordering that theres going to be parenting time as the

parties agree and if they dont then well be back here on

Wednesday and--

10

MR. LANSAT:

No.

The parenting time will be as

11

what mother indicated, that I--that Omer will either get

12

one child at a time or all three, I dont care, um--into

13

his car, um--to--to meet in the--

14

THE COURT:

Its not gonna work.

I mean its

15

not gonna work because moms not gonna encourage it at

16

all.

17

UNIDENTIFIED FEMAEL SPEAKER:

18

MR. LANSAT:

Thats fine.

--well (indiscernible)--in the

19

parking lot, well try it Friday with the deputy.

Mr.

20

Gallaghers not around but he gave me the name of someone

21

else.

22

thats the only reason.

The only reason I want him there is a witness,

23

THE COURT:

We definitely need a witness.

24

MR. LANSAT:

25

well do it Saturday and Sunday.

And well see what happens--and

16

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2

THE COURT:

And it didnt work with all those

police officers, with you, with me, with you--

MR. LANSAT:

There were six.

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--with my-Can--can--may she say something,

she wants to address the Court.

THE COURT:

THE PLAINTIFF:

Yes.
I want to ah--say a few things,

one is um--I--I hope you will believe me I--from the

10

bottom of my heart I want them to have a good relationship

11

with their father and I have so--so um--I--I dont want

12

anybody to think differently.

13

many, many months the kids have no problem going--they--I

14

would drop them off, they would go to have visitation for

15

um--for ah--a long time and--and I was not around and then

16

Omer asked that I would be around and I was around and so

17

there was no problem.

18

intimidation that has been caused with this

19

(indiscernible) and Mr. Lansats threats and Mr. Lansat

20

had told them that its their responsibility that their

21

grandfather will die and--and all that just upsets them

22

and--and if there are--if the visit starts with

23

intimidation and threats and--and force it creates a

24

situation that is hard to overcome.

25

contrary I think if we dont use force and--and threats

Two is um--in the past over

And I think the um--the um--

17

I think on the

and let--and youve never heard of what really happened.

You only hear Mr. Lansats report that is based on his--on

Omers report to Mr. Lansat and it kind of escalates to a

level that was not even the case and if we (indiscernible)

on things that did work and go from there it will I think

number one the kids will have um--will be comfortable,

they will feel happy and--and we have to give it a real

chance.

right direction immediately they come to you and complain

Every--every time something started to go in the

10

and you hear the worst things and you think, like Mr.

11

Lansat puts in his report, compares it to serial killers

12

and I dont know illusional--delusional accusations that I

13

think he should actually apologize for, ah--we are not

14

serial killers.

15
16

THE COURT:

The only person who should apologize

is you.

17

THE PLAINTIFF:

18

THE COURT:

Were not serial kill--

The only one who apologize should be

19

you because I completely agreed with what I saw, what he

20

wrote, I completely agree with.

21
22

THE PLAINTIFF:
-before--

23

MR. LANSAT:

24

THE COURT:

25

You havent been outside before-

Well you know in a-I was watching.

everything and I heard everything.

18

I watched

1
2

THE PLAINTIFF:
Lansat told them--

3
4

MR. LANSAT:

THE COURT:

MR. LANSAT:

THE COURT:

MR. LANSAT:

I agree with him.

--Im trying to help her out-Im not apologizing either.
--not to--youre about to change

physical custody--

10

THE COURT:

11

MR. LANSAT:

12

Your Honor here--you know what

heres the situation--

You havent heard what Mr.

She doesnt get it.

--so all were--she doesnt get it-

-all were hearing is she wants to blame me--blame this--

13

THE PLAINTIFF:

14

THE COURT:

15

MR. LANSAT:

I get it.

I get it.

You dont.
--your Honor it hasnt worked for

16

four years. You know Im trying to help--theres not even

17

no point.

18

THE PLAINTIFF:

19

THE COURT:

20

THE PLAINTIFF:

21

THE COURT:

Because its cut off--

There is no point.
--because every time--

There is no point.

You know what,

22

when Judge McDonald heard your case in my absence, Judge

23

McDonald said your kids dont run the show.

24

the only parent that lets kids run the show.

25

McDonald said that to you.

Youre like
You.

Judge

You can think all you want

19

about me, I didnt hear your case because Judge McDonald

heard it and Judge McDonald had nothing nice to say about

you.

THE PLAINTIFF:

I--I actually thought that your

approach was the best approach.

You came out, you were

kind to them, I said to you look Judge Gorcyca is--I said

to the kids look Judge Gorcyca is so nice, shes going to

hear you, shes going to listen to you, and your technique

works.

But every time were going one step forward its

10

interrupted by complaints and accusations and--and that

11

are not--not exactly what happened.

12
13

THE COURT:

I dont know why your children would

know that.

14

THE PLAINTIFF:

15

THE COURT:

Sorry?

Your children shouldnt have known

16

their father had a complaint about you or the way the

17

visits went.

18

THE PLAINTIFF:

He says that to them when--in

19

the initial visit, he threatens all of us in the initial

20

visit.

21

THE COURT:

22

THE PLAINTIFF:

23
24
25

No--I dont-And--and then it sets a bad

(indiscernible).
THE COURT:

--I find you incredible--I actually

find you less than credible.

20

I dont--I dont believe

you.

THE PLAINTIFF:

would give me a chance--

THE COURT:

THE PLAINTIFF:

I--I wish--I wish one time you

I did.
--to--no--no it was always

interrupted--

THE COURT:

In that--out there in the hall and

there and that you--okay lets just say, what Tracy Ray

Staid (ph) said about you--say the worse thing that you

10

wrote.

11

MS. STEEB:

That when I directed mom to leave

12

and go to lunch to allow the visitation on the second day

13

mom refused to leave the building and in fact sat in this

14

courtroom for several hours.

15
16

THE PLAINTIFF:

Because when--because when--

because when I asked--

17

THE COURT:

I dont think thats the worst, I

18

think the worst is that fact that you didnt comfort your

19

children and let them know it was okay.

20

going for.

21

THE PLAINTIFF:

22

THE COURT:

23

do you not?

24
25

No I--thats not true--

How do you not comfort a kid?

Like--

THE PLAINTIFF:
comfort?

Thats what I was

What do you mean I didnt

Of course I--they were--one minute-21

How

THE COURT:

Ms. Steeb what do you have to say?

THE PLAINTIFF:

--one minute, number one I think

Ms. Steeb saw them after the event outside which was very

bad for them and didnt help with creating a positive

environment so of course mister--Ms. Steebs report starts

with they came in crying.

crying?

grandfather.

Because they were just accused of killing their

MR. LANSAT:

Oh my God.

10

THE PLAINTIFF:

11

MR. LANSAT:

12

THE PLAINTIFF:

13

Well why did they come in

Your Honor--

And then--and then--

--it--its so---and then saying that your mom

will go to jail--

14

MR. LANSAT:

--maybe you should just--you know

15

what your Honor if she contin--if she continues to talk,

16

change custody.

17

Im done.

THE COURT:

Do you know that Mr. Lansat is

18

getting an award--a massive award for being an advocate

19

for kids at the end of this month?

20

so respected by every Judge here, you think I--Ill just

21

(indiscernible) by myself, any other Judge likes him more

22

than I do.

23

THE PLAINTIFF:

Okay.

Mr. Lansat is

I think Mr. Lansat had lied to

24

you in the summer to say that--that my time out of the

25

country was not approved when in fact it was and Mr.

22

Lansat knew it--

MR. LANSAT:

THE PLAINTIFF:

--and my father was not able to

go--

THE COURT:

MR. LANSAT:

Maam do you--maam--

Doesnt get it.

--maam do you want the Judge to

enter an order changing custody today?

THE COURT:

MR. LANSAT:

It might have been the best thing.

Yes or no.

10

THE COURT:

Do you agree to it?

11

THE PLAINTIFF:

No, of course not, Im trying

12

to--to explain that this violent approach of escalating

13

force, bringing police and pushing them and for--and

14

threatening them is--is con--is not going to--to--

15
16

MR. LANSAT:

We tried--weve tried the dog.

Weve tried--weve tried--

17

THE PLAINTIFF:

18

MR. LANSAT:

19

You havent tried the dog.

--theres no point.

Thank--your

Honor may I be excused and well get the order done?

20

THE COURT:

Theres no point.

21

MR. LANSAT:

22

THE PLAINTIFF:

Thank you.
You have not.

Kids wanted the

23

dog and Omer complained that the dog is in the way and you

24

removed the dog.

25

THE COURT:

Yeah so, talk to dad about the

23

emergency motion.

2
3

THE PLAINTIFF:
-you know--

THE COURT:

emergency motion.

custody.

7
8

I--I think--Im sad to say that-

Its done.

Im holding this on

Next week well hear it changing

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Are you in agreement to

facilitate the parenting time--

THE PLAINTIFF:

Of course I am in agreement.

10

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--are you in agreement to

11

facilitate the recommendation by miss--

12

THE COURT:

What is the disconnect.

13

THE PLAINTIFF:

--of course, when Ms. Steeb

14

asked me to step outside the lady outside said please wait

15

in the courtroom.

I didnt me--what--

16

THE COURT:

She has such as disconnect.

17

THE PLAINTIFF:

Of course I will facilitate and

18

Omer wrote me an email, he wants to meet and talk about

19

the best approach and I think it will benefit the kids too

20

if he sees that--if they see that their parents work

21

together to help and not see their father keep attacking

22

the mother for things that are not even true.

23
24
25

MS. SPILMAN:

She never responded to his email.

He-THE PLAINTIFF:

I have.
24

MS. GUCCIARDO:

They agreed to meet on Friday.

THE PLAINTIFF:

I have and there is a copy--

there was copies sent--

4
5

THE COURT:
Friday.

Well good luck on that meeting on

It will be the most important one for you.

THE PLAINTIFF:

Im sorry?

MS. GUCCIARDO:

The parties agreed to meet on

Friday but theyre gonna work out the parenting time.

THE COURT:

Your parenting time is going to be

10

the most important time of your life--facilitating this

11

for dad.

12

THE PLAINTIFF:

13

THE COURT:

And--and I want it--I want--

All right well lets--well just

14

see if you can actually have emotion that make your

15

children feel good.

16

THE PLAINTIFF:

17

THE COURT:

18

mother.

But I need--

Lets just see if you have that as a

Maybe you dont.

Maybe you have this--

19

THE PLAINTIFF:

20

THE COURT:

21

sees but you and your Counsel.

22
23
24
25

I do.

I do.

--massive disconnect that everyone

THE PLAINTIFF:

I do but I cant--I do but I

cant do it with my (indiscernible) if you go--if--if-THE COURT:

the dentist?

Okay.

Do your kids like going to

They like getting their teeth pulled,

25

cavities filled--

THE PLAINTIFF:

THE COURT:

THE PLAINTIFF:

They actually do.

--or do they go-They go because--they go.

I--I wanna say that if--that I wanna do it my way.

is a kind and--and respectful way.

THE COURT:

Its not working.

THE PLAINTIFF:

THE COURT:

seen it in 41,000 cases.

11

THE PLAINTIFF:

THE COURT:

21
22
23
24
25

Thats because every time it

Its on

--he complains to the Court and-

-and everything is changed.

THE COURT:

You cant convince me--the best GAL

in the world just walked out on you.

19
20

You are the worst--

--case and its all on you.

THE PLAINTIFF:

17
18

Its always interrupted.

you.

15
16

Your--your way--

starts to work--

13
14

That

--your way is the worst. Ive not

10

12

It is.

But

THE PLAINTIFF:

You dont get it.

No I do he--hes responsible

for-THE COURT:

So Ms. Gucciardo I really hope that

you can relay to her-THE PLAINTIFF:

--Mothers Day by lying to the

Court this summer.

THE COURT:

--try--good luck Ms. Gucciardo, its

26

gonna be very hard for you to do.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Your Honor I--I have discussed

that and I again reiterate, shes going to facilitate the

relationship--

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

That would be great.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Not say were gonna do this and

try and shove something else down their throat--

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

14

That would be

great.

10
11

--and if something is working I

would ask that it continue and not change it.

8
9

Okay.

Thatd be great.
--and then come to Court and say

theres a problem, cuz thats--

15

THE COURT:

This is it.

16

MS. GUCCIARDO:

This is it for you.

--its a vicious cycle.

If Mr.

17

Tsimhoni wants this work he needs to make it work and let

18

whats working work.

19

its never gonna--

20

THE COURT:

Because otherwise these kids are--

All right.

Good luck.

21

Thank you, very well said, Ms. Gucciardo.

22

too.

23

MS. SPILMAN:

24

THE COURT:

25

effort you have put.

Thank you.

Ms. Spilman

Okay, thank you your Honor.

Tracy the Court appreciates the

27

MS. STEEB:

Thank you Judge.

THE COURT:

All right.

(At 11:42 a.m., proceeding concluded)

* * * * * *

28

Ill sign the order.

STATE OF MICHIGAN

COUNTY OF OAKLAND

)ss.

I certify that this transcript is a true and accurate

transcription to the best of my ability of the proceeding in
this case before the Honorable Lisa Gorcyca, as recorded by the
clerk.
Proceedings were recorded and provided to this
transcriptionist by the Circuit Court and this certified
reporter accepts no responsibility for any events that occurred
during the above proceedings, for any inaudible and/or
indiscernible responses by any person or party involved in the
proceeding or for the content of the recording provided.

Dated:

November 24, 2014

___/S/ Sandra J. Traskos__________

Sandra Traskos, CER 7118

29