STATE OF MICHIGAN

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF OAKLAND

MAYA EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI,
Plaintiff,
v

Case No. 2009-766749-DM

OMER G. TSIMHONI,
Defendant./
HEARING
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LISA GORCYCA
Pontiac, Michigan - Thursday, August 21, 2014
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiff:

NO APPEARANCE

For the Defendant:

NO APPEARANCE

Guardian Ad Litem:

WILLIAM LANSAT (P36752)

280 N. Old Woodward Avenue, Suite 250
Birmingham, Michigan 48009
(248) 258-7074

Also Present:

LISA R. HARRIS (P60028)

Oakland County Prosecutors Office
1200 North Telegraph Road
Pontiac, Michigan 48341
(248) 858-0656

Transcript Provided by:

Accurate Transcription Services, LLC

Firm # 8493
(734)944-5818

Transcribed by:

Krista S. Michels, CER #8490

TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE

WITNESSES
None

EXHIBITS

RECEIVED

None offered.

Pontiac, Michigan

Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 11:21 a.m.

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THE CLERK:

--Eibschitz-Tsimhoni v Tsimhoni,

case number 09-766749-DM.

THE COURT:

All right.

This is Judge Gorcyca.

I had ordered that Mom bring all three of the children to

Court to have parenting time with Father.

that; however, the children will not remove themselves

Mom has done

10

from their chairs in the hallway.

The Court notes that is

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a first out of the 40,000 cases the Court has had and they

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are all in contempt--direct contempt for not following the

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orders.

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The Court notes the GAL has done a--a remarkable

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job of trying to explain what would happen to the children

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and their mother if that doesnt happen.

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three deputies come up--three dep--and told Mom that Im

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going to have deputies involved in their childrens life.

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The deputies did that.

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The Court had

The deputies have explained it.

The Court had the assistant prosecutor come up

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and the assistant prosecutor explained it.

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privy to almost all of those conversations because they

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occurred right outside my door and apparently, the

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children were explained that they can live in the

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Childrens Village and they dont care.

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The Court was

They might--maybe

they--Mom, in all honesty, you dont have a lawyer here so

this isnt about you, but maybe--maybe they want to live

in Childrens Village.

Childrens Village in front of me, so I think maybe--maybe

theres something going on in your house and they want to

live there, but maybe not.

I have kids that want to live in

I have no idea.

Ive never seen anything like it.

Your children

appear to be drugged.

Mr. Lansat assures me that thats

not the case because thats how they always appear.

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dont understand that, either.

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Mom, do you have anything you want to say?

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And--whats todays date?

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

I think that they are

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afraid to come in because of what they were told, that

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its poison here and all that and I was trying to tell

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them outside that youre a very nice woman and that they

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would just come in and talk with you.

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happen to them.

Nothing would

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MS. HARRIS:

Who told them it was poison?

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MR. LANSAT:

Again, your Honor, when--and thats

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what I tried to explain to the kids when they were going--

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this is what Mom tells me, that they were seeing Pamela

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Ludolph, which we discontinued.

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they indicate to the kids.

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25

THE COURT:

Mom says that thats what

Thats what who indicated to the

kids?
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MR. LANSAT:

Ms. Ludolph, but I--

THE COURT:

That Court was poison?

MR. LANSAT:

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

THE COURT:

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

Right, or theyd go to prison.

Prison.

Oh.
So I--I told the kids

outside, I said, How about go down to the cafeteria?

something fun?

which is so important, why not go to the cafeteria?

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We came especially for parenting time,

THE COURT:

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MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

What did they say?

MR. LANSAT:

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MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

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I think they--they are

going to cafeteria--

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So, I

think--I think--

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Do

I didnt---because they are

tired and hungry and we didnt have breakfast.

MR. LANSAT:

I didnt hear them answer that.

We

asked them, but I didnt hear them.

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MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

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THE COURT:

They are going.

Do your children answer you

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normally, because they dont--when--I mean, a deputy even

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asked (indiscernible), Do you know the right--right from

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wrong, and he couldnt even answer that question.

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MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

I think theyre just

afraid to come in because of their fright and I--I--I told

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them--so I said, you know, I offered cafeteria to go

around it.

-this is parenting time, for them and they agreed, so I

thought to try that.

THE COURT:

Is there a reason why you havent

physically told them--said--and then, drag them in here?

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I said, Look it, this is your parenting time-

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

I think its important

that it will be a positive experience and--and--

THE COURT:

Well, its not.

Its way past that.

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So, is there a reason why you have not?

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have seen parents discipline their children for following

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their orders and the Court orders and physically move

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them.

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For example, I

Is there a reason?
Im not talking to your children.

I will tell

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them.

Im not having a conversation with them.

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going to be telling them what theyre doing and if your

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children dont do that, they are going to live in

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Childrens Village.

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realizing that?

Its direct contempt.

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MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

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THE COURT:

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I am

Are you

Yeah, I--I realize.

I can put them in Ch--you know that

Childrens Village is jail for kids?

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MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

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THE COURT:

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you dont want them?

I--I realize and--and--

Maybe you dont want them?

If you want, I can-6

Maybe

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

THE COURT:

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

THE COURT:

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

I--

--just do--I can do custody---no, no.

--right now to Dad.

No, of course not.

I--

I think its at a level of--of making it pleasant for them

and--and really I think its important.

especially for this, so I think instead of turning it now

into something much worse, if they agree--if they wanted

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to go to cafeteria, why not go--

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THE COURT:

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MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

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THE COURT:

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I know.

I know.

Its too bad that they run your

show.

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Theyre not running the show.

can--

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I mean, we came

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:
there.

--I can drag them in

I mean-THE COURT:

But I cant get into that because

you--neither--nobody has lawyers here except-MR. LANSAT:

Judge, I--I--I think--I think that

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if the deputies are here with their assistants, then they

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can physically take one or three of them into the jury

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room and let Dad have his parenting time.

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THE COURT:

Does that work for you, Mom?

Theyre going to--you want-7

MR. LANSAT:

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

terrible.

Or Childrens Village?
No, I--I think its

I think--

THE COURT:

Okay, but thats the other option.

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

THE COURT:

I think--

You have been unable to fulfill this

Courts order, for whatever reason, I dont understand

that.

very lovely jury room and you have refused to physically

Youre unable to have your children walk into my

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do that yourself, so you are leaving this Court with no

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other option than to have the deputies do it.

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what you want, Mom?

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MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

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THE COURT:

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right now.
MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:
will have to drag them myself.

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THE COURT:

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I will have to pull--I

Well, which one do you think is

better; you doing it or the deputies doing it?

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

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better that I do it, of course.

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traumatic if the policemen do it.

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No.

Well then, do something about it

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Is that

THE COURT:

You pick.

I--I--I think its

I think it will be very

Would you like me to try?

Ill go

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out there right now and tell them to get up and if they

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dont, then deputies-8

MS. HARRIS:

THE COURT:

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

Oh, no.

No, no, no.

No?
I told you--I already

told them that youve been--

THE COURT:

MS. HARRIS:

Thats the assistant prosecutor.

Your Honor, we could ask for an

order to take into custody.

I think that this has gotten

beyond absurd.

her own authority to have her children comply with the

I have a parent here who will not exert

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Courts order.

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beyond--if--if the Court is going to have an order to take

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into custody because of the violation of the order, we can

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set up and have a hearing within 24 hours.

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And in order to--I--I just--I think thats

We could even do the hearing this afternoon,

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appoint the kids attorneys because clearly Mother does not

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understand this and unfortunately, because she wants to

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play with the Court, the kids are convinced that they get

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to run the show.

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This is--this is so not acceptable.

MR. LANSAT:

I think Mother indicated she wanted

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to try to go out there because she understands the

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alternative.

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get one and this is the last chance.

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these kids in Childrens Village.

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it.

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So Mom, why dont you go out there, try to

I dont want to see

The Judge doesnt want

Lisa doesnt want it--the prosecutor.

THE COURT:

Whats it gon--whats it going to be

9

for you when you drive home without your three kids today

and you go to bed tonight without them?

to be like for you?

Whats it going

Do you ever think of that?

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

THE COURT:

It would be terrible.

Some mothers dont want their kids.

Some mothers dont.

youre going to not try, youre going to go do it right

now or the deputies are going to do it and then, I--the

prosecutor right here, is saying I should do an order to

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I do--I see it all day long.

put your kids in custody.

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Do you want that, because thats what this is

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going down to?

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entirely ridiculous that your children--

This--this Court finds this utterly,

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MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

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THE COURT:

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So,

I--I agree with you.

--are like a pack out there for no

reason.
MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

Could I have your

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permission to--I think it would be easier for me to drag

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them--they--somehow, they have a feeling like, that this--

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this area is scary because of what was told to them.

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you think it--would I have your permission to drag them to

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the cafeteria, for example?

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THE COURT:

No.

No, its way far away.

Do

Its in

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the basement of this building and my jury room is right

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there, and my jury room is very lovely.

10

I think youve

been in there before.

MS. EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI:

Mm-hmm.

MS. HARRIS:

If they have an issue

All right.

of walking through the courtroom, we--

MR. LANSAT:

They could go--they could--

MS. HARRIS:

--can go around.

I--I--I dont

even like the idea of the kids thinking that somehow this

is--this courtroom is evil and--this is ridiculous.

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10

THE COURT:

All right.

All right.

Well, thats

the order of the Court.

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MR. LANSAT:

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(At 11:29 a.m., proceedings concluded.)

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So lets--Mom--

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STATE OF MICHIGAN

COUNTY OF OAKLAND

)ss.

I certify that this transcript is a true and accurate

transcription to the best of my ability of the proceeding in
this case before the Honorable Lisa Gorcyca, as recorded by the
clerk.
Proceedings were recorded and provided to this
transcriptionist by the Circuit Court and this certified
reporter accepts no responsibility for any events that occurred
during the above proceedings, for any inaudible and/or
indiscernible responses by any person or party involved in the
proceeding or for the content of the recording provided.

Dated:

November 24, 2014

___/S/ Krista Michels______________

Krista S. Michels, CER #8490

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