STATE OF MICHIGAN

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF OAKLAND

MAYA EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI,
Plaintiff,
v

Case No. 09-766749-DM

OMER G. TSIMHONI,
Defendant./
MOTION HEARING
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LISA GORCYCA
Pontiac, Michigan - Wednesday, August 13, 2014
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiff:

RENEE K. GUCCIARDO (P47884)

EDWARD A. HUTTON III (P76477)
The Gucciardo Law Firm PLLC
30700 Telegraph road, Suite 1580
Bingham Farms, MI 48025
(248) 723-5190

For the Defendant:

AMY M. SPILMAN (P52044)

Alexander, Eisenberg, Middleditch
and Spilman PLLC
600 South Adams Street, Suite 100
Birmingham, MI 48009
(248) 358-8880

Also Present:

WILLIAM LANSAT (P36752)

Guardian ad Litem
280 N. Old Woodward Avenue, Suite 250
Birmingham, MI 48009
(248) 258-7074

Transcript Provided by:

Accurate Transcription Services, LLC

Firm # 8493
(734)944-5818

Transcribed by:

Susan G. Johnson, CER 3511

1

TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE

WITNESSES
None

EXHIBITS

RECEIVED

None offered.

Pontiac, Michigan

Wednesday, August 13, 2014, at 10:49 a.m.

* * * * * *

THE CLERK:

The court calls docket number 73,

case number 09-766749-DM, Eibschitz-Tsimhoni versus

Tsimhoni.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Good morning, your Honor.

Renee Gucciardo on

behalf of the plaintiff, Maya Eibschitz-Tsimhoni.

10
11

Ready.

MR. HUTTON:

Good morning, your Honor.

Edward

Hutton also on behalf of the plaintiff.

12

MR. LANSAT:

13

MS. SPILMAN:

William Lansat, GAL, your Honor.

Good morning, your Honor.

14

Spilman on behalf of the defendant.

15

Keri Middleditch this morning.

16

THE COURT:

Amy

Im standing in for

Have I already made the disclosure

17

about him dating my research attorney?

18

that?

Ive already done

Have I?

19

MR. LANSAT:

20

MS. GUCCIARDO:

21

THE COURT:

22

So thats why my research attorney wont work on

23

Yes, the last time we were here.

Dad, you dont remember?

the case, so she walks out.

24
25

Yes.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

You did the last time we were

here.
3

THE COURT:

MS. SPILMAN:

The walk of shame.

Okay.

Well, this is our motion,

your Honor, to--

THE COURT:

MS. SPILMAN:

All right.

I read everything.

--enforce--Its an emergency

motion that was added on to the docket with the Courts

permission--

8
9

THE COURT:

Mom cause shes not here, but apparently shes gone?

10
11

And normally Id be very upset with

MS. SPILMAN:

She is gone, your Honor.

And we

dont know when she planned to leave.

12

THE COURT:

Shes in violation of all my orders.

13

MS. SPILMAN:

14

MS. GUCCIARDO:

She is.
She is not.

You know what?

Id

15

like to look at the tape the last time we were here cause

16

we put on the record--

17
18

THE COURT:

You can watch it.

together.

19

MS. GUCCIARDO:

20

MR. LANSAT:

21

THE COURT:

22

MS. GUCCIARDO:

23

Lets watch it

end of August.

Lets do that.

Can we do popcorn?
We do have eight bags back there.
You said that she had till the

So this whole thing--

24

THE COURT:

25

MS. SPILMAN:

Wait.
No.
4

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

Yes.

This--

No, I said she had to give Dad

always the itinerary.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MS. SPILMAN:

Which she did.

She did.

The order--No, she did not, your

Honor.

The order is very specific.

permitted to travel out of the country with the children

unless and until she provides the travel itinerary to the

father.

10
11

MS. GUCCIARDO:

And we were here two weeks

later--

12
13

Mother is not

MS. SPILMAN:

There was nothing specific--There

was nothing specific about her going somewhere in August.

14

My client has been in touch with his ex-wife.

15

They had communication.

16

going to the south of France in August.

17

to the GAL saying he would be in town.

18

communications after that.

19

seventh that she was leaving town.

20

shes coming back.

22

twenty--

23

25

He sent an e-mail
And they had

We heard nothing until August

This is not an itinerary.

21

24

She never mentioned that she was

We dont know when

My client is in town until August

THE COURT:

Wait.

She sent an e-mail that said

what?
MS. SPILMAN:

She only sent an e-mail that she

5

was in the south of France, staying in this village, Ill

let you know when we get to Paris where were staying.

Thats not an itinerary.

returning.

the first place.

and he would like to see his kids.

We dont know when shes

We dont know when she bought these tickets in

And my client is here until August 28th

This is a repeat of what was here--what was

happening when the parties were here in June, where she

had a preplanned vacation, hadnt told anybody about it,

10

and my client was coming into town, and suddenly she was

11

not available.

12

She did not follow the Courts orders.

13

itinerary.

14

So this is the same thing all over again.

That is not an

And my client wants to see the children.

And the Court had already ordered or intimated,

15

and I think the GAL motion has a motion, for that

16

parenting time to take place here because theres such

17

problems with the parenting time, that in order to get the

18

children to cooperate, we need to have the parenting time

19

here at the courthouse, which also does condense the

20

available time for parenting.

21

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Now, its interesting that she

22

claims that my client didnt abide by the order.

You

23

recall, the only person last time when we were here that

24

didnt abide by the order was the defendant.

25

give proper notice.

He didnt

Theres a court order from March 3rd

6

that talks very specifically about notice requirements.

We gave proper notice.

go on vacation.

to accommodate the defendant, despite his failure again to

abide by this Courts order, you ordered that Ms. Tsimhoni

not go on her vacation as she originally planned, to delay

it to accommodate the fact that the defendant was going to

be here.

We indicated when we were going to

He didnt.

He did it late.

But in order

And when we were here, we put the order on the

10

record.

We were here twice because they wanted to be here

11

to talk about how the parenting time was going to take

12

place, even though we didnt have to.

13

it in the office.

14

the record the last time we were here what the itinerary

15

was.

We could have done

We all sat here in court and we put on

And you said--

16

We talked about when she was going to be gone.

17

You said you have the whole rest of the summer.

18

know what?

19

the court; youre the law.

20

rest of the summer.

21

And you

She has a right to rely on your words.

Youre

You said you have the whole

So what does Dad do?

Instead of talking to Mom,

22

saying, hey, Im going to be here, he tries to set her up

23

so that he can again make her look bad in this Courts

24

eyes, because hes well aware of the fact of how things

25

have gone in the court, and to make her look bad by

7

sending an e-mail to Mr. Lansat, not communicating with

Mom about when hes going to be here, tries to set her up

by sending an e-mail to Mr. Lansat saying Im going to be

here, even though while we were here we clearly said she

was going to be gone until the end of August.

a disingenuous e-mail from him.

interfere with her summer vacation.

notification.

He knew about it.

MR. LANSAT:

So that was

And hes trying to again

So, she gave the

Lets look at the tape--

(Indiscernible)

10

MS. GUCCIARDO:

11

MS. SPILMAN:

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

14

MS. SPILMAN:

15

MS. GUCCIARDO:

16

MS. SPILMAN:

--because it was pretty clear.

Nobody remembers that, your Honor.

All right, so lets-Well, you werent here.

Not Ms. Middleditch because-Well, we all remember it.
--of course I was (indiscernible)

17

discuss with her, not my client,--

18

MS. GUCCIARDO:

19

MS. SPILMAN:

20

MS. GUCCIARDO:

21

MR. LANSAT:

We both remember it.

Lets--

--not Mr. Lansat.

--look at it.

Lets look at it.

This is the thing--Look at the

22

tape.

But the thing is she still has to do an itinerary,

23

okay?

And you have to rule whether thats a proper

24

itinerary or not.

25

THE COURT:

Improper.
8

1
2

But I sent out, July 29th or

MR. LANSAT:
July 30th--

Shes correct about the order of 30 days; but

also in the order it does say unless you can work it out

with the GAL, so its some saving provision--

THE COURT:

And he did.

MR. LANSAT:

I sent it out.

But I didnt--And

Ms. Gucciardo did respond, said shes on vacation--Ms.

Gucciardo was on vacation, you know, and didnt know what

10

Mayas plans were.

11

dates that Dad said.

12

tickets July 29th, the 30th, the 31st, or second, that will

13

be fine; but its mother that doesnt communicate with

14

anybody.

15

But I sent it directly to Maya, those

And had she had purchased the

THE COURT:

All right, shes going to have to

16

show when the--proof of when she purchased those tickets.

17

Does that work?

18

MR. LANSAT:

19

MS. SPILMAN:

20

THE COURT:

21

MS. SPILMAN:

22

Now,-Wed also like-How about this---to know when shes coming back

and--

23

THE COURT:

24

MS. SPILMAN:

25

THE COURT:

All right.

And--

--maybe theres an opportunity-Would--Did you come-9

MS. SPILMAN:

THE COURT:

MR. TSIMHONI:

THE COURT:

--for parenting time---just for this?

(Inaudible)

Okay.

watch the video?

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

THE COURT:
video.

Gucciardo.

18

Well, there were two days, Ms.

I dont know which-THE COURT:

So we can go back there.

Im sure

somebody back there is setting it up.

16
17

Its torture watching yourself on

MR. LANSAT:

14

(Inaudible)

Probably not for you.

12

15

Do you want to go back and watch the

MR. TSIMHONI:

10

13

Yes.

video?

11

Do you want to go back and

MR. LANSAT:

And, procedurally, your Honor,

THE COURT:

Because then youre going to ask

with--

19

that shes in contempt for violating all the--Is that what

20

this motion is?

21
22

MS. SPILMAN:

Its a motion to enforce, your

Honor, cause--

23

MS. GUCCIARDO:

24

MS. SPILMAN:

25

THE COURT:

And I would (indiscernible)---(indiscernible).

And costs.
10

1
2

MS. GUCCIARDO:
thing.

--theres no emergency on this

They knew that she was out of town.

MR. TSIMHONI:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MR. TSIMHONI:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

To--

(Indiscernible) to see---to ask for an emergency---my kids.

--when they know that shes out

of town, when they know shes going to be here in August,

is improper; and Im asking for costs for having to be

here.

10
11

This is ridiculous.
THE COURT:

Well, I think that--Is Mr. Lansat

the one who called and asked for it?

12

MR. LANSANT:

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

14

MR. LANSAT:

15

MS. GUCCIARDO:

16

MR. LANSAT:

17

No.

This is--

No.

--This is their-He never gave me notice--

--Theres two things.

Theres

their motion, all right, that they had filed.

18

THE COURT:

19

MR. LANSAT:

Well, I just had it that you called.

No, I had filed a motion to have

20

parenting time in the jury room last week.

21

I had a blank notice of hearing.

22

away.

23

the motion but the clerk did not fill in the notice of

24

hearing that it was up for today.

25

Gucciardo didnt get notice.

I didnt know you were

And they forgot to fill it in.

11

You were away.

They got a copy of

So, technically, Ms.

Ill refile it.

THE COURT:

MR. LANSAT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

Well repraecipe it then.

Pardon?

Dions fired, I guess.

The clerk,

Dion.

6
7

Dions fired?

MR. LANSAT:

So Ill refile it if she doesnt

want to argue it today.

THE COURT:

MS. SPILMAN:

10

THE COURT:

Thats fine.

No.

This--

But your Honor, we-This is--Okay, this all goes back--

11

I want Dad to have parenting time.

12

more parenting time.

13

parenting time.

14

parenting time.

I want Dad to have

And then I want Dad to have more

And then I want Dad to have more

15

So what are you going to tell your client?

16

MS. GUCCIARDO:

17

THE COURT:

18

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

I want Dad to have more parenting

time.

23

MS. GUCCIARDO:

24

THE COURT:

25

I want my client to be here to

hear it.

21
22

What are you going to tell your

client that I said?

19
20

I want my client to be here--

And I want her to--

And I want Dad to have more

parenting time,-12

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

--be here so she can hear it--

--and I want Dad to have more

parenting time, and I want his relationship to improve

with his children.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Hes got a lot to work on to

make it work.

the relationship.

trying to get their mother in trouble, knowing shes going

to be gone in August, doesnt help things.

10

And, quite frankly, coming here and

It really

doesnt.

11
12

Hes done a lot of things that have hurt

MS. SPILMAN:

She didnt tell anybody she was

going anywhere in August--

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

14

MS. SPILMAN:

15

MR. LANSAT:

16

MS. SPILMAN:

17

MR. LANSAT:

Lets look at the tapes.

She said she was--

I think---(indiscernible) in June---I think they should review the

18

tape.

But what I attached to my motion, Judge, from their

19

own supervisor, whos a great guy, we tried it Mothers

20

way, we tried to work with her, we were hoping it went

21

well for (indiscernible).

22

need to have it here.

23

Ms. Gucciardo time to reply.

Its a complete disaster.

We

24

THE COURT:

25

MS. SPILMAN:

I will refile the motion to give

Okay.

Not a problem.
The other thing,--

Well, I-13

THE COURT:

--too, is if theres not an

itinerary and I said an itinerary, detailed itinerary,

that was not a detailed itinerary, shes on the hook for

these fees.

Bar Mitzvah?

And with the Bar Mitzvah, too.

MS. SPILMAN:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MS. SPILMAN:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

10
11

Is there a

She says there is no-We put it on the record---she has--

MS. SPILMAN:

--and theres nothing---no Bar Mitzvah plans.

Shes not

provided him with any Bar Mitzvah plans.

12

MS. GUCCIARDO:

13

THE COURT:

And we put that on the record--

And the fact of the matter is, Mr.

14

Lansat, you told her he was coming and she didnt say, Oh,

15

Im going to the south of France, lucky me, for a whole

16

month--

17

MS. SPILMAN:

18

THE COURT:

19

was going.

20

She did not respond at all.

--and the other country wherever she

Shes on the hook for all these fees.

MR. LANSAT:

There is no issue with the Bar

21

Mitzvah.

22

that--she did say that back there and if she

23

(indiscernible) she provide the details, so I dont think

24

thats an issue.

25

I think weve--Mom said there wasnt any, and

MS. GUCCIARDO:

And your Honor, Mr. Lansat and I

14

were in contact with each other.

vacation, I con--I was in contact with him and said I

think shes on vacation--

MR. LANSAT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

She wrote an e-mail to that effect.

other, and we talked.

MR. LANSAT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MR. LANSAT:

Right.

10
11

Even though I was on

And we texted each

But she was in--But she was-And thats the bottom line.

--in town that time, though.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

She has--You know, she can rely

on her counsel to communicate with Mr. Lansat.

12

Mr. Tsimhoni failed to even contact her and say,

13

Hey, are you here in town?

14

that.

15

THE COURT:

16

MS. SPILMAN:

17

THE COURT:

18

MS. SPILMAN:

19

MR. TSIMHONI:

20

THE COURT:

21

MR. TSIMHONI:

Im coming in.

Nothing like

(Indiscernible) I saw-No, thats not true.

I saw an e-mail.
They spoke on the phone-I had a Skype discussion with--

I saw something.
--her and with the kids, and I

22

told the kids--I made the mistake of telling the kids that

23

I was going to see them.

24

MS. GUCCIARDO:

25

And why he would do that when

you gave-15

1
2

MR. TSIMHONI:

Because I thought I was going to

see them--

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--her the rest of the summer--

MR. TSIMHONI:

--cause I did not--because I did

not know that--

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

MR. TSIMHONI:

going.

--is just pure manipulation.

I agree with you, Dad.

I did not know that they were

If I had known, Id not scheduled the--

10

MR. LANSAT:

11

THE COURT:

(Indiscernible)
Mr. Lansat, if she had told you Im

12

going to the south of France for a month, and Ive already

13

bought these really expensive tickets, what would--

14

MR. LANSAT:

15

THE COURT:

16

MR. LANSAT:

There would be no---you have done?

There would have been no issue.

17

would have told Dad.

18

these tickets; shes given me proof; lets move on and

19

call it a day.

20
21

I would have said, Dad, she bought

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Except we were in court and we

put--she said that on the record, and you said you have--

22

THE COURT:

Thats why--

23

MS. GUCCIARDO:

24

THE COURT:

25

MR. TSIMHONI:

--the rest of--

Okay, you know what?

With the dates?
16

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MR. TSIMHONI:

MR. LANSAT:

THE COURT:

With the dates?

(Indiscernible)

If you are right after watching that

video, its a whole different story, Dad.

6
7

(Indiscernible)

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Okay?

Yeah, and then I want him to pay

my costs.

THE COURT:

MS. SPILMAN:

Well see if-If you know the dates, tell us

10

when shes returning.

If you know the specifics of her

11

itinerary, tell us what it is.

12

MS. GUCCIARDO:

13

MS. SPILMAN:

14

MR. LANSAT:

15

MS. SPILMAN:

16

MS. GUCCIARDO:

17

MS. SPILMAN:

18

MS. GUCCIARDO:

She--I told Mr. Lansat-She cant--

No, I dont know the itinerary.

--tell me because-I told Mr. Lansat---she doesnt know.
It old Mr. Lansat when we were

19

communicating, shes going to be back the--the day

20

before school starts, which would be September 2nd or

21

September 3rd.

22

MR. LANSAT:

Oh.

23

MS. GUCCIARDO:

24

THE COURT:

25

MS. GUCCIARDO:

I told him that.

Yes, I did.

That doesnt give the kids-I absolutely told him that.

17

THE COURT:

--enough time to prepare for school.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

Pardon?

That doesnt give the kids much time

to prepare for the jet lag and the time difference and

preparation for school.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MR. LANSAT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MR. LANSAT:

(Indiscernible)

Well, when I sent it out-(Indiscernible)--

--on the 29th or 30th,--

10

MS. GUCCIARDO:

11

MR. LANSAT:

12

MS. GUCCIARDO:

13

MR. LANSAT:

14

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--and she made that decision.

--Mom was in town.

I let him know.

Mom was in town.

I let him know.

I communicated.

15

So--And she has a right to rely on me as her attorney to

16

communicate, which I did with the GAL, extensively.

17

THE COURT:

18

MR. LANSAT:

19

MR. TSIMHONI:

20

THE COURT:

21

too.

And so-Lets look at the-Have them look at the video.

Dad, you can go back and watch it,

All right.

22

MS. SPILMAN:

23

THE COURT:

24

MR. HUTTON:

25

THE COURT:

Thank you, your Honor.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, your Honor.

Thank you, Mr. Hutton.
18

(At 11:00 a.m., case passed)

(At 11:55 a.m., case recalled)

THE CLERK:

The court recalls Eibschitz-Tsimhoni

versus Tsimhoni, case number 09-766749-DM.

MR. LANSAT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MS. SPILMAN:

12

Amy Spilman on behalf of the

defendant.

10
11

Renee Gucciardo on behalf of the

plaintiff.

8
9

William Lansat, GAL, your Honor.

MR. HUTTON:

Edward Hutton on behalf of the

plaintiff.
MS. SPILMAN:

Your Honor, we did have an

13

opportunity to review the video; and nowhere in the video

14

was any specific travel dates placed on the record.

15

was very unclear when the plaintiff will be traveling.

16

And it was also very clear that the Court said she cannot

17

go anywhere without Dad knowing when the Bar Mitzvah is,

18

where shes going, and an itinerary.

19

been provided.

20

It

And that has not

Mr. Lansat made a statement on the record that,

21

okay, Mom could be free to go from the beginning of July

22

to the second or third week in August, as long as she

23

provides notice.

24
25

Nothing specific.

Nothing specific.

So when he sent--when my client sent Mr. Lansat

an e-mail on July 29th with the dates that he was looking
19

to come to Michigan, and Mr. Lansat sent an e-mail out the

very next day saying these are the dates that--

THE COURT:

MS. SPILMAN:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

Oh, wait.

No, no, no.

MS. SPILMAN:

She gets to say what

I think my client should be able

THE COURT:

And then Im going to rule without

your response.

12

MS. GUCCIARDO:

13

THE COURT:

14

I want to respond.

to--

10
11

--Mr. Tsimhonis coming--I want--

she wants.

8
9

So what do you want?

Pardon?

And then Im going to rule without

your response.

15

MS. SPILMAN:

My client should be allowed

to

16

see the children when hes here.

17

28th.

18

her plan, and we dont know when shes planning on coming

19

back, theres some vague representation its Labor Day.

20

But she should be required to come back so that he can

21

have parenting time here at the courthouse sometime

22

between now and August 28th or maybe he can extend his trip

23

one more day, the 29th.

24

have the opportunity to see the kids while hes here in

25

Michigan, as hed indicated that he would be.

Hes here until August

She should be required to come back, if thats not

But he should be have--He should

20

He should be awarded attorneys fees for having

to argue about this again.

of warning in the future, I suppose, if this happens yet

again, because saying that you are going to be somewhere

in the south of France is not an itinerary.

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

And there should be some kind

Its pretty small.

Your Honor, I--

Ms. Gucciardo, what would you like

to--what is your response?

10

MS. GUCCIARDO:

11

is this:

12

We talked about how long shes going to be gone.

13

Lansat--I said, Look, quite frankly, it doesnt matter if

14

shes gone for eight weeks because he doesnt live in the

15

United States of America.

16

be gone--she should have until the second or third week in

17

August, that should be free for her; and you said, You

18

know what, if he--she can have as long as she wants; if

19

hes going to be gone for a year, she can have all of that

20

time.

21

We were here.

I would like you to--like to say

We put all this on the record.
Mr.

Mr. Lansat said, yes, she could

Thats what you said.

So she relied upon that.

Now, this is really interest--When--After we

22

were in court, on June 10th I sent Ms. Middleditch an

23

e-mail and I said this is my third e-mail today advising

24

you that Omer still has not provided the documents for

25

Maya to obtain the childrens passports.

21

It goes on and

on.

We talk about regarding the Bar Mitzvah.

Talk about

what the plans are for that.

going to be staying at Lago di Garda, as she has done in

the prior years.

to her phone number, and I state the phone number, so that

Omer may call the children, just as he has been able to do

in the past.

I sent that to Mr. Lansat.

Middleditch.

Neither one of them say, Not specific

enough; dont like this information.

And then I say, Maya is

Shell arrange an international access

I sent it to Ms.

In fact, Ms.

10

Middleditchs response that same day was, I forwarded your

11

request to my client.

End of story.

12

THE COURT:

Did it say when shes coming back?

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

14

MS. SPILMAN:

15

MS. GUCCIARDO:

No, but let me finish.

No.
So, she was supposed to go in

16

June.

17

Tsimhonis plans, even though we had sent our notice on

18

May 1st and they didnt send their notice until May 3rd.

19

You said Mom can change her plans.

20

her plans.

21

to meet them, so they had to move him back.

22
23

You made her change her plans to accommodate Mr.

We did.

She changed

Her dad, as you know, is dying, was too sick

THE COURT:

Is he in the south of France?

mean, did he die?

24

MS. GUCCIARDO:

25

THE COURT:

No.

Thank God hes still alive.

Thank goodness.
22

When--Where--Does

he live in the south of France?

MS. SPILMAN:

No.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MS. SPILMAN:

THE COURT:

MS. SPILMAN:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

He lives in Israel.
And that was Italy.

So was he in south of France?

That trip was to Italy.
So, in any event,--

Nice traveling.
In any event, she said then with

10

the whole war in Israel, everything going on, he couldnt

11

get out.

12

When this thing came in, I talked to Mr. Lansat,

13

after I spoke with her, and she--and I advised Mr. Lansat

14

shes going to be leaving.

15

September 1st.

16

seventh, whatever day it was, I said shes leaving the

17

next day.

18

said shes coming back September 1st.

19

that.

20

had said she can have--

And I said she will be back on

I said I believe that she is leaving August

Whatever day Mr. Lansat and I spoke.

And I

I notified him of

And it was clear about this whole thing because you

21

THE COURT:

Did you notify them?

22

MS. GUCCIARDO:

23

MS. SPILMAN:

24

MS. GUCCIARDO:

25

You know, I didnt interrupt.

--as much time as she wants.

This was after-Mr. Lansat was going--

23

MS. SPILMAN:

Only a few times.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Mr. Lansat was the one that we

were talking to about this whole thing because Dad gave

late notice, not in conformance with the March order,

which indicated how--

THE COURT:

Two days.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Pardon?

Were way past that two-day thing.

But the bottom line is we were

10

communicating with Mr. Lansat about this.

11

this.

12

Then on Sunday Ms. Tsimhoni provided the

13

itinerary.

14

additional itinerary telling--

15

THE COURT:

16

MS. GUCCIARDO:

17

be.

And again this morning she provided an

Way too late.

--what dates she was going to

There was no requirement--

18

MS. SPILMAN:

19

MS. GUCCIARDO:

20

MS. SPILMAN:

21

MS. GUCCIARDO:

22

I provided

No, she didnt.

Yes, she did.
No, she didnt.
August 13th.

I can pull it up

right now.

23

MS. SPILMAN:

24

MS. GUCCIARDO:

25

MS. SPILMAN:

She said were at-You know what?

--this village, at this hotel in a
24

village--

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MS. SPILMAN:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

She gave it right now---She did not say-You didnt say she has to say on

this day, Im going to be here, on this day.

you know, give an itinerary.

Thats all we have to do.

need to know, okay, at one oclock were going to be

playing catch, at three oclock were going to be going on

10

a boat ride.

Were giving where shes at.

They are divorced.

He doesnt

Thats ridiculous.

11

THE COURT:

12

MS. GUCCIARDO:

13

MR. LANSAT:

14

MS. GUCCIARDO:

15

MR. LANSAT:

16

MS. GUCCIARDO:

17

MR. LANSAT:

Thats not (indiscernible)

We gave the dates.

(Indiscernible) ask you for that.

Well, what is an itinerary?

Okay.
We gave the dates.

No, the itinerary--Okay, all I want

18

from this woman is one thing:

19

when is she coming back?

When is she leaving and

MS. SPILMAN:

21

MS. GUCCIARDO:

22

MR. LANSAT:

Okay,--

20

23

You said,

And where is she going?

I told you.

--Ms. Gucciardo says September 2nd.

Id like to see--

24

THE COURT:

25

MR. LANSAT:

And where is she going.

--some proof from Mother that she
25

has got a plane reservation coming back on the second

because --

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MR. LANSAT:

The first.

Whatever.

I dont believe Mother.

How do you not--Thats what an itinerary is.

needed was just a copy of the flight information.

book tickets?

what they do during the day.

9
10

This is overseas travel.

THE COURT:

All we
Did you

We dont care

The Court is ordering for her to

show proof of when she purchased these tickets.

11

MR. LANSAT:

12

THE COURT:

And when shes coming back.

And then I will reserve your--Dad, I

13

will reserve your request for your attorney fees, based on

14

when she purchased those tickets.

15

Also, that itinerary was completely lacking, so

16

Dad is entitled to something for that.

17

half of the attorney fees for now, and the other half if

18

those attorney fees--if the tickets were purchased . . .

19
20

MR. LANSAT:

I dont know when they were

purchased.

21
22

So maybe half--

THE COURT:

Well, depending on when the tickets

were purchased, youll get the other half.

23

Dad, I can order Mom to come back right now.

24

can.

Whats today?

25

come back.

Todays the 13th?

I can order her to

Lets say give her seven notice--seven-days

26

notice so that its not costing probably $20,000 to change

the tickets.

make Mom very, very angry.

go--trickle down to the children, who probably are--I have

to say probably enjoying themselves in south of France.

So its in your--The balls in your court right now.

you want me to do that?

MR. TSIMHONI:

THE COURT:

10

Which is going to do what?

It is going to

Im assuming that anger would

(Inaudible)

I know you want to see your kids.

You know that I feel for you.

I know you know that.

11

Do you want to talk to your counsel?

12

MR. TSIMHONI:

I want to hear--I would like to

13

hear her response for my request to return a few days

14

early.

15
16

Thats all.
MR. LANSAT:

It could all be resolved, Judge,

really, and not have to make Mom come back--

17

MR. TSIMHONI:

18

MR. LANSAT:

19

MR. TSIMHONI:

20

MR. LANSAT:

21

THE COURT:

22

MR. LANSAT:

She cant become more angry-If---than she is already with me.

If we just knew--

Yes, she can.

--if we knew that she actually

23

purchased tickets to come back and what date, which I

24

think--

25

Do

THE COURT:

Lets see when she-27

MR. LANSAT:

THE COURT:

MR. LANSAT:
to come back.

6
7

--purchased the tickets and what

date.

4
5

--is probable--

I think its probably an open thing

Thats what I suspect.

THE COURT:

We can come back.

doesnt have to be on a busy Wednesday.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

10

As soon as I get it from her--

I mean the Court always appreciates

all--

11

MS. GUCCIARDO:

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. SPILMAN:

14
15

You know, it

Honor.

--Ill try to--

--of you being here.

There should be a deadline, your

I mean, it should be next week or sooner.

THE COURT:

Oh, no, sooner.

It wouldnt take

16

long to get the information when you purchased those

17

tickets and the dates youre coming back with proof.

18

MS. SPILMAN:

19

MR. TSIMHONI:

20

MS. SPILMAN:

21
22

My client, I think,-Your Honor,---would still like some

opportunity to see the kids.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

I mean,--

She has tickets to come back.

23

Look, the ord--what you clearly said was she can be gone

24

for a year if hes not coming back next year.

25

MR. LANSAT:

I thought Mr. Lansat on the record

28

said till the second week of August or--

MS. GUCCIARDO:

But then you, and youre the

judge, you said she can be gone for a year if hes not

coming back for a year.

MS. SPILMAN:

MR. TSIMHONI:

THE COURT:

MR. TSIMHONI:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

It doesnt matter.
But that doesnt mean-But I am back.

But he is back.
But I am back.

10

THE COURT:

11

MS. GUCCIARDO:

So she can rely upon that.

12

that.

But he is back.
I know, but she didnt know

That was--

13

MR. TSIMHONI:

14

MS. GUCCIARDO:

15

So a year?
--that--You said that back on

June 4th--

16

MR. TSIMHONI:

17

MS. GUCCIARDO:

18

MR. TSIMHONI:

19

For a full year Im not to-You said that.

--see the kids?

Is that you

want?

20

MS. SPILMAN:

21

MS. GUCCIARDO:

22

MS. SPILMAN:

23

MS. GUCCIARDO:

24

MS. SPILMAN:

25

MS. GUCCIARDO:

I dont think it would be-You know what?

--acceptable.

I--

Thats what the---dont think she would---Court said-29

MS. SPILMAN:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

MS. SPILMAN:

--have the right to say---so if she---Im going to be gone for a year

and no one would do anything about that.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

No kidding.

The point being is

because he doesnt live in the United States, she could be

gone for as long as he--as she wants because--And Ms.

Middleditch said, I agree.

I agree.

Thats what his attorney said.

She can be gone for as long--

10

THE COURT:

11

MS. GUCCIARDO:

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

14

THE COURT:

15

MS. GUCCIARDO:

16

THE COURT:

17

MS. GUCCIARDO:

18

THE COURT:

19

MS. GUCCIARDO:

20

before that, then its irrelevant.

21

MR. LANSAT:

If---as she wants, so--

If hes not coming back.

--if she has--

But he is back.
If she has already purchased--

And he gave---those tickets--

--he gave lots of notice.

But if she purchased the tickets

Lets see when the tickets were

22

purchased, but more important, when--if a return date was

23

purchased.

24

can deal with it.

25

change the Court in having her come back sooner.

And if she has a return date on it, then we

And if she doesnt, then that may

30

May be

no point in--

THE COURT:

MR. LANSAT:

THE COURT:

Well, just---her coming back sooner.

But all I know is this:

The last--

On page two of the order, it says mom is not permitted to

travel outside of the country unless she provides Liams

Bar Mitzvah information details to father.

8
9

I did that back on June 10th.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

just read that into the record, and he said--

10

THE COURT:

11

MS. GUCCIARDO:

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

14

MR. LANSAT:

15

Oh, Im sorry, I missed---there was no objection.

I missed that part.

Okay.

The Bar Mitzvah issue was dealt

with.

16

THE COURT:

Julie was talking.

17

MS. GUCCIARDO:

18

THE CLERK:

19

MS. SPILMAN:

Nice one, Julie.

Sorry.
I think wed also need to know if

20

these were tickets that were originally purchased in June

21

and she just redirected the travel.

22

when that travel change was made.

23
24
25

THE COURT:

All of it.

We would want to know

Every single thing the

Court--she has to provide.

MR. LANSAT:

Make a copy of your itinerary from

31

1
2

your--from the ticket.

THE COURT:

Its so simple.
That will be determinate.

Thatll

make a big difference in the Courts ruling on attorney

fees, if any, and--

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

And attorney fees for me.

Thats what Im saying.

Yeah, okay.

Good.

I want--

And for anybody--anyone--

10

THE COURT:

11

MS. GUCCIARDO:

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. SPILMAN:

--to reserve for me--

--anyone,---because this is ridiculous.

--if appropriate.
How could she be entitled to

14

attorney fees when she had never provided an itinerary in

15

the first place?

16

I mean, that goes without saying.

THE COURT:

Lets just say Mom can show an

17

e-mail that she said, Dad, Im going to be going here on

18

Monday; and on Tuesday, were going to travel to Paris; on

19

Thursday, were going to go to Quebec; and on Friday,

20

were going to Asia, and just travel the world with these

21

three kids until--and come back the day before school

22

starts, all ready, nobodys going to have jet lag,

23

nobodys going to have any problem with times--

24

MR. LANSAT:

25

THE COURT:

Its---the massive difference in time-32

1
2

MS. GUCCIARDO:

She said to me, Im coming back

the day before school starts.

MR. LANSAT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

9
10
11

Im telling you--

Well, thats what were going to

see.

7
8

On a Monday?

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--what she said to me.

know,-MR. LANSAT:

School starts Tuesday?

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--I mean, look, these people are

used to traveling back and forth internationally--

12

THE COURT:

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

14
15
16

So--Right, so---so its her kids.

I mean, she

can make that determination-MR. LANSAT:

Well, its both their children.

Theres a mother and a dad--

17

MS. GUCCIARDO:

18

MR. LANSAT:

19

MS. SPILMAN:

20

So, you

Yeah, I get that.

--and, you know,-I would also like to reserve the

request that she be required to return early,--

21

THE COURT:

22

MS. SPILMAN:

23

THE COURT:

24

MS. SPILMAN:

25

THE COURT:

Of course.
--because if these were plans-Of course.

I agree--

--that were made after---with you.

33

1
2

--the July 29th e-mail, and that

MS. SPILMAN:
was purposely--

THE COURT:

MS. SPILMAN:

THE COURT:

next day.

7
8

Then shes coming back.

--meant to frustrate his time.

Then the kids are coming back the

And they can enjoy the entire time with Dad.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Im sure thatll make things

even better for them.

MR. TSIMHONI:

Cant be much worse than--

10

MS. GUCCIARDO:

11

MS. SPILMAN:

12

MS. GUCCIARDO:

13

MR. LANSAT:

14

Oh, sure.
Thank you, your Honor.
Theyll get along swimmingly.

Ill repraecipe my motion, then, to

I dont know when--

15

MS. GUCCIARDO:

16

MR. LANSAT:

17

MS. GUCCIARDO:

I want Ms.--

--but Ill repraecipe it.

--Eibschitz here, like you had

18

ruled before, for his motion, so she can hear everything

19

thats going on--

20
21

MR. LANSAT:

Thats fine.

I told Ms. Gucciardo

--

22

MS. GUCCIARDO:

23

THE COURT:

24

MR. LANSAT:

25

MS. GUCCIARDO:

Its not fair--

Granted.
I agree.

Thats fine.

Thank you.
34

MR. LANSAT:

Ill move it.

anyways, apparently.

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

THE COURT:

MS. GUCCIARDO:

It was never on

But-But, quite frankly,--

--were going to---I know that theyre not

allowed to get DVDs but I would like Ms. Eibschitz to be

able to--

9
10
11
12
13

THE COURT:

Review it.

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--review todays proceedings, so

that she can see everything that takes place.

THE COURT:

That would be fabulous.

like that, too.

14

MS. SPILMAN:

15

THE COURT:

16

MS. GUCCIARDO:

17

THE COURT:

18

I would

And when is the-Shes not going to get-She can come back and watch it.

Mr. Lansat, were you listening?

She

can review it.

19

MR. LANSAT:

I apologize.

20

THE COURT:

21

MR. LANSAT:

Right.

22

MS. SPILMAN:

And when should she be providing

She can review it anytime.

23

this information by?

24

repraecipe this for next Wednesday.

25

THE COURT:

At least by Wednesday.

Ill

Well, you can--Ms.--It doesnt have

35

to be on a Wednesday.

next day.

It can be anytime.

MS. SPILMAN:

THE COURT:

I dont know if shes going to be able to do, I

6
7
8
9
10
11

Okay.

It can be the

Then by tomorrow.

Well squish you in.

mean, with the time change and-MS. GUCCIARDO:

I dont know if shes going to

be able to do it, either.

THE COURT:

And I dont know--

I dont think she could do it--

MS. GUCCIARDO:

--if shes going to be able to

scan it and--

12

THE COURT:

--just do it in one day,--

13

MS. GUCCIARDO:

14

THE COURT:

15

MS. SPILMAN:

16

THE COURT:

17

MS. GUCCIARDO:

18

MR. LANSAT:

--and do all that--

--so maybe-Well,---three days?

How about by Monday?

Lets just get an order in place

19

exactly what information specifically we want from Mother,

20

and well be back again.

21

THE COURT:

Be very detailed.

22

MS. GUCCIARDO:

23

THE COURT:

24

Is that it?

25

MS. GUCCIARDO:

And provide it by Monday?

That works.

Thank you, your Honor.

36

MS. SPILMAN:

THE COURT:

MR. HUTTON:

THE COURT:

(At 12:09 p.m., proceedings concluded)

Thank you, your Honor.

Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hutton.

* * * * * *

37

STATE OF MICHIGAN

COUNTY OF OAKLAND

) ss.

I certify that this transcript is a true and accurate

transcription to the best of my ability of the proceeding in
this case before the Honorable Lisa Gorcyca, as recorded by the
clerk.
Proceedings were recorded and provided to this
transcriptionist by the Circuit Court and this certified
reporter accepts no responsibility for any events that occurred
during the above proceedings, for any inaudible and/or
indiscernible responses by any person or party involved in the
proceeding or for the content of the recording provided.

Dated:

September 1, 2014

___/S/ Susan G. Johnson_______________

Susan G. Johnson, CER 3511

38