Transcript: Read the Full Text of the Undercard CNBC

Debate in Boulder
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Ryan Teague Beckwith
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Four minor Republican presidential candidates met in Boulder, Colorado, for the third undercard debate
Wednesday.
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick
Santorum and former New York Gov. George Pataki were all on stage at the 6 p.m. debate, hosted by
cable business news network CNBC.
Here is a running transcript of their remarks, courtesy of CNBCs Your Money, Your Vote: The Republican
Presidential Debate.
BECKY QUICK: Good evening, everyone. Im Becky Quick. Along with my CNBC colleagues, Carl
Quintanilla and John Harwood, some of CNBCs experts in the markets and finance will be with us here
tonight as well.
Lets get right to the debate rules. Candidates will get 30 seconds to answer an opening question and then
60 seconds to answer a formal question. They will also get 30 seconds for rebuttals and follow-ups. All of
this comes at the discretion of the moderators. We want you to weigh in tonight either from home or
wherever you are.
By the way, if you check it out on the bottom of the screen, you can see your tweets right there using the
#CNBCGOPdebate. You can also go to CNBC.com/vote throughout the night to tell us where you stand.
First up, lets get right to the candidates for tonights Republican Presidential debate. I want to run you
through the line on the stage from left to right. First up, Governor Bobby Jindal.
[APPLAUSE]
Senator Rick Santorum.
[APPLAUSE]
Governor George Pataki.
[APPLAUSE]
And Senator Lindsey Graham.
[APPLAUSE]
Obviously, we have a lot to cover tonight. Lets get started.
My colleague John Harwood has the first question.

JOHN HARWOOD: Were going to pose this question to all candidates and go left to right, starting with
Governor Jindal.
Governor, a majority of Republican voters at this point in the campaign have made clear that they prefer
someone from outside the political system. In 30 seconds, tell us why your experience inside the system
would be more valuable than the fresh eyes an outsider would bring.
BOBBY JINDAL: John, I think the reason voters are so frustrated is nothing seems to change in DC.
Look, over the next the several hours, youre going to hear several Republicans, all tell you they want to
shrink the size of government and grow the American economy. And it sounds great. Weve got to do it.
Heres the truth, of all these folks talking, Im the only one that has cut the size of government. Theres not
two of us; theres one of us. The rest of it is all just hot air.
When politicians talk, we need to pay attention to what they do, not what they say. Im the only one thats
reduced the size of government. Lets shrink the government economy, lets grow the American economy.
JOHN: Thanks, Governor Jindal.
Senator Santorum.
RICK SANTORUM: Yeah, I think its one thing to shrink the size of a state government, but its another
thing to actually get something accomplished in Washington. Its a much tougher field, and Im the one on
this stage, and frankly on both stages, that has actually gone to Washington, said we would shrink
government, said we would shake things up, and actually delivered for the conservative cause. Everything
from welfare reform, which was the largest, most significant accomplishment in the last 25 years for
conservatism. I authored the bill when I was in the House of Representatives, I managed the bill on the
floor of the United States Senate. You need a conservative who can deliver, and thats what I bring to the
table.
JOHN: Thank you, Senator.
And Governor Pataki.
GEORGE PATAKI: We need an outsider to run our party and to win the next election. Washington has
become a corrupt insider game. Everybody talks about how theyre going to change the taxes, grow the
economy, nothing seems to change. By the way, Bobby, I shrunk the size of New York States
government. When I left, we had reduced the employment by over 25,000 and cut taxes.
But I understand to change Washington, you have to understand government as well. You cant just be an
outsider, you cant just be someone who throws stones at Washington. You have to be someone who can
actually bring people together across party lines. I can do that. I will do that if I have the chance to lead this
party.
JOHN: Thank you, Governor.
Senator Graham.
LINDSEY GRAHAM: Thank you for having me here tonight. How about a round of applause for Boulder,
Colorado. This is a beautiful place.
[APPLAUSE]
Looking at their academic standards, anybody gotten into the university has been invited to this debate

tonight.
[LAUGHTER]
Here is my take on things. Without national security, there is no economic security. Without the sacrifice of
the veterans, all of our hopes and dreams are at risk. Just a few days ago, Hillary Clinton said that the
problems with the DA are being exaggerated by Republicans. They are not. They are real.
JOHN: Senator Graham, thank you very much.
BECKY: Governor Jindal, lets talk about the news of the day. Just a few hours ago, the Republicans and
the Democrats and the House voted on a budget deal that will increase spending by about $80 billion over
the next two years. You, however, have called the Republicans who have been willing to work with the
Democrats to do things like this the surrender party of the Republican Caucus. Would you have shut the
government down instead?
JINDAL: I think thats a false choice. I think this was a very bad deal. Whenever they tell us in D.C. theyre
going to cut tomorrow, that means theyre never going to cut. Tomorrow never seems to happen. Instead,
why wont we actually follow our conservative principles. Why not insist on structural reforms. Why not cut
spending. I dont mean shrink the growth rate. I mean actually spend less. Why not a balanced budget in
the amendment to the Constitution, why not a super majority vote before our taxes before they grow the
government faster than the economy.
Lets be honest, $18 trillion of debt, record low participation rate in the workforce. Record number of
Americans on food stamps. We are going the way of Europe. The left is trying to turn the American dream
into the European nightmare.
BECKY: But, Governor, if you didnt have a choice, if you didnt control things in the House, would you take
the choice of shutting things down or would you go ahead and agree with them?
JINDAL: I think thats a false choice. If I were leading, we would pass a conservative budget, challenge the
President to do the right thing.
Heres the problem, the Republicans never want to fight. Give Pelosi and Reid credit. They forced
Obamacare and socialism down our throats. Why wont the Republicans fight half as hard for freedom and
opportunity? This was a bad budget.
BECKY: Governor, thank you.
PATAKI: Becky, can I comment on this question?
JOHN: Just hold on, Governor Pataki. We are going to go to Senator Graham on this question. Because
we believe you are likely the only person on this stage tonight who supports this budget deal. Now, you
just heard Governor Jindal say that its a funny deal, doesnt do anything, and people like you are
surrendering rather than fighting by supporting it. Why is he wrong?
GRAHAM: Let me tell you what is real: The threat to our homeland. Ive never seen so many threats to our
homeland than I do today. Barack Obama is an incompetent commander in chief.
There are more terrorist organizations with safe havens to attack the American homeland than any time
since 9/11. We are in the process of reducing our defense spending by half. Im looking at this budget with
one view in mind. Will it restore the ability to defend this nation? We are on track to have the smallest Army
since 1940. The smallest Navy since 1915. This budget, if it is paid for, will put $40 billion back in the
Defense Department at a time we need it. The number one role of the Federal Government is to defend

this nation. I intend to be a commander in chief that can win a war we cannot afford to lose.
JOHN: Thanks, Senator Graham.
PATAKI: John, can I quickly comment?
[CROSSTALK]
CARL QUINTANILLA: The question in the meantime for Senator Santorum. You have advocated a flat tax.
So wed like to ask you about fairness. Why is it fair to tax all Americans at the same rate as opposed to
taxing more affluent Americans at higher rates?
SANTORUM: Well, if you look at my flat tax, it actually takes the best of what Steve Forbes, Art () and
many have been advocating a long time, which is a very strong pro tax code. Very simple. And it adjusts it
to make sure that it is not regressive. We have a $2,750 per person tax credit. Thats $2,750 off the taxes
due, not a deduction of credit. If you run the numbers, no American who is going to be paying more
taxes under our proposal. So we have accomplished both. We have a system that has a low single rate,
but we take care of American families. Im talking about $2,750 per person. That means a family of four,
thats an $11,000 tax credit. Thats very, very strong pro-family.
If you looked at the Wall Street Journal today and so many of the publications that have been out there,
theyve talked about how the biggest problem () the middle of this country for workers to be able to rise and
actually the breakdown of the American family.
William Galston, a liberal, said that on the page of the Wall Street Journal today. That the key to poverty is
families. We put forth a pro-growth Steve Forbes plan, combined it with a pro-family plan, and thats why I
think its going to work and work effectively.
BECKY: Governor Pataki, lets get to your point. You wanted to make a comment on the budget. You want
to get in on the idea of what would you do if you were in Washington. Would you compromise or would you

PATAKI: I think it was a bad deal, but I would have voted for it for a very simple reason. Barack Obama is
the first President in American history to hold our military hostage. He knew that we needed funding for
overseas contingent operations, $30 million that would go to support our troops. And he was prepared and
had vetoed it unless this deal went through.
I have two sons. They both served overseas, one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. I understand we have got
to do far more to help our military, help our veterans and help protect our security. This is a bad deal. But to
protect our military, I would have signed it. Its not going to be the case. If I have a chance to lead this
country, were going to reduce the deficit, shrink the government, lower the tax burden and govern the
private sector because thats how you solve deficits.
BECKY: Governor Pataki, thank you.
John.
JOHN: Governor Jindal, a question about fiscal policy, especially since you noted that this deal doesnt
solve the long-term debt situation.
When you came into office with a budget surplus in the state of Louisiana, now years later the state
legislature faced a 1.6 billion budget gap, and a Republican state treasurer called one of your approaches
to that problem nonsense on a stick, quoting him. Are you going to do for the federal budget what you did
for the Louisiana budget?

JINDAL: Absolutely, John. And what we did is we cut state spending. Weve cut our budget 26 percent.
According to Cato and other analysis, the only () thats actually reduced government spending.
Look, the left always complains theres not enough money for government. We have 30,000 fewer state
employees since the day I took office. Eight credit upgrades. Were a top ten state for private sector job
creation.
Weve got a choice. You grow the government economy or the American economy. When I became
governor, we had 25 years without ()migration. We were coming back from Katrina. The question many
were asking, Will Louisiana rebuild? Should Louisiana rebuild?
Seven years in a row, more people moving into the state than leaving the state. We now have more people
working than ever before, earning a higher income than ever before.
Yes, we have reduced the size of government. Thats exactly what we need to do in DC. In DC, the
Republicans slow the growth rate. They claim victory. Thats not enough. Lets be honest with where we
are today. We are running off a cliff. Well be the next Greece. We can rearrange the chair, over $18 trillion
of debt. No wonder our economy has been stagnant. We havent had real growth. If youre a young
student here, you have not seen a robust economy.
JOHN: Governor Jindal, as you know, many Republicans are opposed to the approach that youve taken in
Louisiana. They complain that you have tried so hard to avoid anything that could be called a tax increase
so that you could run for President saying you would never raise taxes. David Vitter, the Republican who is
now running to succeed you, has told voters, I wont be like Jindal. Im not using the governorship as a
steppingstone to higher office.
JINDAL: Well, John, a couple things. Not only do we not raise taxes, we did the largest income tax cut in
the states history. And Im proud of that record. I think thats the kind of leadership voters want in DC.
Look, if you want a Republican thats going to grow government spending, if you want a candidate who is
going to increase taxes, Im not your guy. If you want somebody thats going to do and say the things that
cant be said, cant be done, Im asking you to vote for me, to join my cause. Thats how dangerous these
times are.
These are dangerous times for America. I think we have a chance to rescue the idea of America, but if we
dont do it now, four years will be too late from now.
So, yes, Im proud we cut taxes, we cut spending, 30,000 fewer state government bureaucrats from the
day I took office. I absolutely will do that in DC.
JOHN: Governor Jindal, thank you.
CARL: We are going to take a quick break. The Republican Presidential debate continues live from
Boulder, Colorado, in a moment.
[APPLAUSE]
[BREAK]
>> Welcome back to the Republican Presidential Debate, live in Boulder, Colorado, on CNBC. We resume
our questions now with Jim Cramer, the host of CNBCs Mad Money.
Jim.

JIM CRAMER: Thank you, Carl. Governor Pataki, in the wake of the Sony hack last year, you said, quote,
At the very least, we should declare cyber war on North Korea.
What does a cyber war look like? And if our companies are getting attacked by foreign governments, do
we need a military response?
PATAKI: No, I dont think we need a military response, but we need a coordinated response. And I have to
say that I think that the Obama Administration has been completely lax, to say the least, in dealing with
these cyber attacks, not just by governments like North Korea, but by particularly Chinese and other
countries.
And what I would do is put in place a policy where if we know a company, say a Chinese company, is
hacking into American companies, stealing trade secrets, as we know they do every day, we will retaliate
against that company and say that that company is not going to be allowed to continue to do trade with the
United States.
I would also look at what were doing at the federal level and put in place what Israel has done, a one
federal agency dealing with cyber security and charged with working across the aisles to make sure we
have the best technology.
And, Jim, I have to tell you something, talking about cyber security, Hillary Clinton put a server, an
unsecure server, in her home as Secretary of State. We have no doubt that that was hacked and that state
secrets are out there to the Iranians, the Russians, the Chinese and others. That, alone, should disqualify
her from being President of the United States.
[APPLAUSE]
JIM: Senator Graham, youre a hawk. Is that tough enough?
GRAHAM: Heres the problem. Were being walked all over because our Commander in Chief is weak in
the eyes of our enemies. Do you think Putin would be in the Ukraine today if Ronald Reagan were
President?
Why are the Chinese stealing are our intellectual property, hacking into our system? Why are they building
islands over resource-rich waters? Because they can get away with it.
At the end of the day, ladies and gentlemen, the foreign policy of Barack Obama needs to be replaced and
the last person you want to find to replace his foreign policy is his Secretary of State.
So, to the Chinese, when it comes to dealing with me, youve got a clenched fist and an open hand. You
pick. The party is over to all the dictators. Make me commander in chief and this crap stops.
JIM: Governor Santorum, we know that a troubling amount of air pollution on the West Coast comes from
China. Should we enact a pollution tax on products imported from China and give our manufacturers a
level playing field?
SANTORUM: Well, we shouldnt be putting tariffs on anything. That hurts working men and women in this
country. What we should be doing is making our manufacturing more competitive. One of the reasons I
introduced the 20/20 plan, 20 percent flat tax on corporations as well as on individuals, is so we could be
competitive, so we can bring those manufacturing jobs back.
You want to talk about cutting pollution. You do a little back of the envelope. We produce, per dollar GDP,
about one-fifth of the CO2 and other pollutants that China produces. So were five times more efficient at
producing goods here as far as the environment is concerned.

Why dont we if we really want to tackle environmental problems, global warming, what we need to do is
take those jobs from China and bring them back here to the United States, employ workers in this country.
Weve lost 2 million jobs, 2 million jobs, under this administration in manufacturing. 15,000 manufacturers
have left this country.
Why? Because of bad tax policy, bad regulatory policy and, yes, bad trade policy. We need to have a
President thats going to pledge, as I have. Im going to make America the number one manufacturer so
working men and women can have good-paying jobs again in America.
JIM: Thank you, Senator.
[APPLAUSE]
John?
JOHN: Governor Jindal, Senator Santorum just raised the issue of corporate taxes, and cutting corporate
taxes is very popular in your party because our rate at 35 percent is one of the highest in the world. But
nobody has figured out how to identify a set of loopholes that would allow that tax rate to be lowered. So
can you tell us specifically what loopholes you would do away with?
JINDAL: Absolutely, John, I would go further. My tax plan, like everybodys, is like a lot of Republicans.
Look, Id get rid of the death penalty and the marriage penalty and Id simplify the brackets to 25 percent,
10 percent, 2 percent so that an average middle-class family a teacher married to law enforcement
JOHN: We are talking corporate taxes.
JINDAL: Im going to get to that pays 25 percent today would pay 10 percent under my plan.
But my plan does three things different from other peoples plans. Remember, I said 2 percent. I think
everybody should pay something. Even if its only 2 percent. Thats the most important 2 percent of
my plan. I know a lot of Republicans brag you all can clap. It doesnt scare me. Go ahead. I heard some
people.
There are millions of folks that wouldnt pay taxes in Jebs plan and Trumps plan. I think thats a mistake.
In terms of the corporate tax.
Secondly, I would get rid of the corporate tax. We do have the highest corporate tax rate in the developed
world. I would get rid of it. I would get rid of all the corporate welfare. Make the CEOs pay their same tax
rates the way the rest of us do. And, third, I would purposely shrink the size of government. You know, that
is an intentional feature of my plan. Weve got a choice. Do we grow the government economy or the
American economy? So I say get rid of the corporate tax. Bring those jobs and investments here to the
United States, stop sending jobs and investment overseas.
BECKY: Governor Pataki, lets talk a little bit about whats happened on Wall Street. Some of your
colleagues in the Republican party, including some of the people on this stage, have bashed Wall Street.
They say that it was largely responsible for the financial crisis.
You are a former Governor of New York and relied very heavily on Wall Street for income. Do you think
theyve gone too far?
PATAKI: I think they have gone too far. I think weve seen Wall Street really blossom and do very well when
the rest of the country is struggling. And its because we have this corrupt connection between Wall Street
and Washington.

And, John, you were just talking about what loopholes would you get rid of. I would get rid of virtually every
single one of them. They cost American taxpayers $1.4 trillion a year. I would throw them all out.
JOHN: The credit right now that we have for domestic manufacturing, you would say get rid of that?
PATAKI: No, I would keep first, yes, but what I would do, I would lower the tax on manufacturing to the
lowest in the developed world, 12 percent.
We all have plans. I have a plan. We all have plans. My plan, the Tax Foundation said, would create 5 and
a half million new jobs over the next decade. The difference, though, is I will get my plan enacted.
Because when I was Governor of New York, I passed sweeping tax code cuts in a democratic state with
a democratic legislature. Bobby, youre talking about your tax cuts. I cut taxes more than everybody on this
stage. More than everybody on the next stage combined by more than the other 49 states, in New York
State. I dont just have a plan. I will enact tax cuts, get rid of those loopholes, and make the system fairer
for all Americans.

BECKY: Governor Pataki, thank you.

CARL: Governor Graham, you have said you believe that climate change is real. You said you accept tax
increases as part of a budget deal with Democrats. Youve co-sponsored a Senate immigration bill,
providing a path to citizenship for those in the country illegally. Are you in the wrong partys debate?
[LAUGHTER]
GRAHAM: No, I think Im trying to solve problems that somebody better solve. Now, you dont have to
believe that climate change is real. I have been to the Antarctic; Ive been to Alaska. Im not a scientist, and
Ive got the grades to prove it. But Ive talked to the climatologists of the world, and 90 percent of them are
telling me that greenhouse gas effect is real. That were heating up the planet. I just want a solution that
would be good for the economy that doesnt destroy it.
I want to fix an immigration system. Im not going to tell you if you like your doctor, you can keep them; if
you like your healthcare, you can keep it. Im tired of telling people things that they want to hear that we
know were not going to do.
Were not going to eliminate the corporate tax, but we can make it lower. Were going to fix immigration
only if we work together.
I want to secure the border, because if we dont, were going to get hurt and hit again. I want to fix a broken
visa system. I want to increase legal immigration because were going to have a shortage of workers over
time.
As to the 11 million, I want to talk about fixing the problem. Were not going to deport 11 million people and
their legal citizen children, but we will deport felons. And those who stay will have to learn our language to
stay, because I dont speak it well, but look how far how, at the end of the day, folks, I am trying to solve
the problem and win an election. Im tired of losing.
Good God, look who were running against. The number one candidate on the other side thought she was
flat broke after her and her husband were in the White House for eight years. The number two guy went to
the Soviet Union on his honeymoon, and I dont think he ever came back. If we dont beat these people
[APPLAUSE]

CARL: Senator, you are well over your minute, but thank you for that. Well be back from Boulder,
Colorado, in just a moment.
[BREAK]
BECKY: Welcome back, everyone. This is the Republican Presidential Debate on CNBC, live from the
University of Colorado.
Senator Santorum, Id like to go to you.
You have talked an awful lot about how you want to protect the American jobs by limiting the number of
immigrants who come into this country.
Very recently, the CEO of Toll Brothers told us that he cant get by without immigrants because they make
up more than half of his workforce at this point. Were not talking about people who are making minimum
wage, but he cant find Americans who want to do these jobs for $20-an-hour-plus jobs.
What would happen if your plans are successful? What happens and how would we fill that hole in the
economy, that gap thats created?
SANTORUM: Well, as you know, Becky, we have the lowest labor participation rate in 50 years, and we
also have the slowest growth in wages in the history of our country, in a 20-year period. In fact, the last
quarter, the lowest wage growth ever recorded.
And so you look at the fact that we brought in 35 million, 35 million legal and illegal immigrants over the last
20 years, more than any period in American history. We have low wages, low participation rates. Maybe
theres something going on, like we dont have the right match, right? We arent giving the training and the
investment in our workers and were bringing in people to compete against low-wage workers. Thats what
is happening.
We have an immigration policy that Senator Graham supported that brings in even more low-wage
workers into this country. He says he wants to solve problems. Thats great, but youre not solving
problems for American wage earners. Youre not solving problems for workers in America, who have seen
their wages flatline and have been disaffected enough to leave the workplace.
We need to get better training, better skills, including vocational education and training in community
colleges. But the bottom line is, we have to make sure that we are not flooding this country with
BECKY: Im sorry, your minute is up. Thank you very much, Senator Santorum.
And, Mr. Graham, yes, that was a question to you, too. You have 30 seconds.
GRAHAM: The first thing we have to do is come to grips with the reality that were facing as Americans. In
1950, there were 16 workers for every Social Security recipient. Today theres three. In 20 years, there are
two.
I want to make sure that no American company leaves America because you cant find a worker. American
workers always get the first preference, but if you cant find an American worker after you advertise at a
competitive wage, I dont want you to be at a loss. Bring people in based on merit. Lets take a broken
immigration
BECKY: Senator Graham, thank you, Im sorry. Thats your 30 seconds.
GRAHAM: and make a merit-based immigration system that will help our economy. Were going to need

workers in the
BECKY: Senator
[CROSSTALK]
SANTORUM: Let me try to get a word in edgewise.
[CROSSTALK]
PATAKI: Very simply, you guys talk over each other in Washington all the time. Im not used to that. We
listen when people talk. We have a skills gap.
You mentioned the construction company. The construction industry says one of their biggest problems,
they cant find the craftsmen to do the work.
What we have to do in America, is honor blue-collar work again. We have to honor the carpenter, the
plumber, the electrician who can actually build something. And instead of just saying that a college degree
delivers prestige, lets celebrate those who do things with their hands and elevate their skills, using training
in high school and community colleges
BECKY: Governor Pataki
PATAKI: so that we can have a better-quality workforce
BECKY: Governor Pataki, Im sorry, to talk over you, sir. That was a minute. Thank you very much.
Carl?
[APPLAUSE]
CARL: A question for Governor Jindal. Paul Ryan says he would take the Speaker job if it did not take
away from his family time. The Department of Labor says 13 percent of American workers are eligible for
paid family leave, and the U.S. is the only developed nation in the world not to have guaranteed paid
maternity leave for new moms. Should the government work to change that?
JINDAL: Look, I think the government should work to change that. That does not mean Im for the
government mandating that. We already have too many government mandates out of DC. Do I want
people to have paid leave? Sure. More people to earn higher wages? Sure. Do I want them to have better
benefits? Sure. The government cant wave a magic wand and make that happen.
Heres the problem. Over the past seven years, President Obama has tried to teach the American people
the government is the answer to all of our problems. Where has that gotten us? We are on the path
towards socialism. The way that folks can get better-paying jobs with better benefits is we have a growing
economy. That means repeal all of Obamacare, a lower, flatter tax code. That means we have an energy
plan that makes sense. That means we embrace an all of the above approach to energy. Those are
good-paying jobs. The 50-, 70-, $90,000 paying jobs with benefits.
But this President wont let us produce more energy on our domestic federal lands and waters. He wont
allow the Canadians to build a Keystone pipeline. Hes got an EPA thats doing everything they can to kill
private sector jobs in America.
So, yes, I want families to have better-paying jobs and better benefits, but were not going to get that with a
government mandate. Were going to get that with a growing economy.

CARL: Governor, thank you.

John?
JOHN: Senator Graham, Americans have gotten used to seeing headlines about more and more big
corporations relocating overseas to cut their tax bill. Now many in Washington think the way to stop that is
to lower our corporate tax rate. But as weve seen, tax reform takes time. Hasnt happened yet.
In the meantime, do you fault those companies for leaving? Do companies owe anything to their country as
well as their shareholders?
GRAHAM: We owe to every businessperson and worker in America the best environment in the world to
create a job. We owe that to American business. 35 percent corporate tax rate is the second highest in the
world. We need to lower it so they dont leave.
The goal is to help the middle class. We can talk about corporations all day long, but my goal is to help the
middle class, somebody who makes too much to be on government assistance but still lives paycheck to
paycheck. When the kid gets sick, you dont go on vacation. Thats the purpose of my presidency, to grow
the economy here.
And let me tell you, our democratic friends have a list a mile long for more government. Thats not going to
grow the middle class. Thats going to create a burden on your children, which they are already
overburdened. The best way to grow the middle class is to make it a good place to create a job.
Do you know why Boeing came to South Carolina when they could have gone anywhere to build the 787?
Because we wanted them. We had a structure
>> Senator Graham.
GRAHAM: a structure that allowed them to build the building even faster than they thought they could
build it. We welcomed them there. Im going to take the South Carolina
JOHN: I want to remind candidates that you have got a one-minute limit on the response, but I just want to
follow up, Senator Graham.
Four years ago, the nominee of your party said that corporations are people too. If that is true, the question
is, do they owe any obligation to the country?
GRAHAM: I think everybody owes an obligation to the country. The ones that Im most worried about are
the 1 percent of Americans in uniform who have been fighting this war for 14 years. They need a
commander in chief who knows what the hell theyre doing.
My first job as President of the United States is to rebuild the military and use it smartly. Admiral Mullen
said the debt is a big threat to our national security. Hes right. But people go where theyre welcome when
it comes to job creation. If I am President of the United States, you will be welcomed in America. This will
be the place to come when it comes to a job. If I am
JOHN: Thank you much. Were moving on.
BECKY: You guys are making
[CROSSTALK]
JOHN: Senator, were moving on. I would like to bring on my colleague, Rick Santelli. Rick?

RICK SANTELLI: Thanks, John.

Governor Pataki.
PATAKI: Hey, Rick.
RICK: How are you doing tonight?
PATAKI: Im doing great.
RICK: Listen, Americas Central Bank, Federal Reserve, they have kept interest rates near zero since the
2008 financial crisis. And, by the way, they had a meeting tonight. Do you think they raised rates? No.
Shocking, isnt it?
PATAKI: Not at all.
RICK: Its been a rough ride for American savers and retirees. They really rely on this interest income. And
its been a bonanza for the stock market, a bonanza. And for investors that like a little bit more risk, its
been a bonanza for them as well.
So I guess what Im asking is, do you think this policy is fair and do you support it?
PATAKI: No, I dont support it.
But let me go back a little bit here. We need to grow our economy faster. Weve had the worst economic
recovery since the Great Depression. And its because of policy in Washington and policy at the Fed.
Let me go back to Washington. In 2009
JOHN: Governor, if thats true, why was our economy limping years ago, and now its the strongest in the
world?
PATAKI: John, no question Barack Obama inherited an economic disaster in 2009. But what did he do?
Instead of focusing on pro-growth policies and the economy, he ran through Obamacare, the worst law of
my lifetime, that hurt small businesses, hurt companies, raised taxes, and almost completely eliminated
one industry because of its taxes.
The Fed had to act. And the Fed did act appropriately in reducing interest rates. But theyve reduced them
now for seven straight years. Thats never happened before. Theyve been zero for way too long. They
should raise the rates. The Fed should get out of manipulating the market. And the Fed also, by the way,
should reduce its balance sheet, 2.7 trillion, let some of those bonds mature and put the money back in the
banking system so our economy can grow.
RICK: Thanks, Governor.
Senator Santorum, in the 2012 presidential debates, you were for the export/import bank, which facilitates
government funding for U.S. exports. American companies like GE and Boeing are among the
beneficiaries.
But, you said that killing the bank here and Im going to quote you is the last thing a true conservative
should be doing.
I dont know, government-backed funding isnt normally what I hear from true conservatives. So why is this
situation different?

SANTORUM: A true conservative loves to create a level playing field. Thats what government is supposed
to do. Theyre not supposed to favor one group over another. And when it comes to our manufacturers, the
level playing field is not in the United States, its international. And so the federal government should have
laws, tax laws, regulatory laws and, yes, finance laws.
Theres 60 other ex-im banks all over the world. Every major competitor for the United States
manufacturing dollar has one of those banks.
And guess what? They use those banks a heck of a lot more than the United States of America does,
number one.
So in order to have a level playing field, which is what conservatives talk about all the time, a level playing
field, then we have to have export financing.
And heres why: Because export financing doesnt help Boeing or GE. GE just lost a contract. You know
what they did? They went to France. They got the ex-im bank in France to support it. And what did they do?
They moved manufacturing out of South Carolina, out of Texas, moved it to Hungary and to France.
GE is still making money, GE is still doing well, but American workers are out of jobs. Thats why we have
to have this level playing field so we can compete with the rest of the world.
RICK: Thanks, Senator.
CARL: CNBCs coverage of the Republican Presidential debate continues, live from the University of
Colorado, after this short break.
[BREAK]
CARL: Welcome back to the University of Colorado and the Republican Presidential Debate on CNBC.
[APPLAUSE]
A question for Senator Santorum. People in this state have loved Coors beer since it was founded in 1873.
[APPLAUSE]
The brewer later became part of SAB Miller, but now SAB may be bought by Budweiser owner InBev.
Is it right to have a third of brewers in this country owned by one company? Do you fear a company of that
size will have too much power over consumers?
SANTORUM: Well, first, since you mentioned Colorado, I just want to thank the people of Colorado,
because four years ago you gave me the honor of winning the nomination out here in the state of Colorado
and on a night we won three states, and it catapulted us to win 11 states, ultimately. And so I just want to
thank you very, very much for that support.
And in response to that, I do drink a lot of Coors beer, so thought I would help.
The answer is pretty simple. The answer is simple. There are no shortage of breweries around the United
States of America.
I do as I travel around the country, I do pints and politics, and I go to breweries all over the place. And
there is almost no town in America that doesnt have a brewery. So I dont think we need to worry too
much.

Obviously, if theres some anti-competitive issues, we have agencies to look at that. But, no, Im not
concerned that Americans are not going to have choices in beer.
CARL: Lets get to that. I mean, another example is Walgreens.
SANTORUM: And I care about that.
CARL: Im sure you do.
Walgreen-Rite-Aid. Big deal, consolidation in drugstores. Semiconductors, food. What is the line at which
something becomes anticompetitive, in your view?
SANTORUM: I would just say this, that what youre seeing is in healthcare, youre seeing a lot of
consolidation and that consolidation is occurring because of Obamacare. You are seeing it particularly in
an area that I am concerned about. And thats in health insurance. Youre seeing the big health insurance
companies fold up. You have seen Obama try to feed health insurance companies, and they have all
failed, I think, except one.
Why? Because we have a system of Obamacare, with minimum loss ratios, that make it virtually
impossible for a small insurer to operate effectively. And this was the motive behind Obamacare. This
wasnt incidental. This was deliberate to make it so impossible for smaller insurers to survive. If they
consolidate into a small group, then the left can say, Oh, there is no competition, we need the single payer.
Thats why we have to reform Obamacare.
[APPLAUSE]
BECKY: Governor Jindal, I want to go back to something that you mentioned before with your tax plan. I
know that you want to put a 2 percent tax on all families, just to make sure everyone has some skin in the
game. But every working American pays 6.2 percent when it comes to Social Security taxes. They pay
another 1.4 percent in Medicare. Isnt that skin in the game?
JINDAL: Well, a couple things. Youre talking about payroll taxes that fund programs. People pay for the
medical care; they pay for their Social Security. I want every American to worry and care about how those
folks in DC are spending our money.
We have $18 trillion in debt. They are misspending our money. Earned success is so much more fulfilling
than unearned success. I dont want us to continue to create one class of Americans that pays income
taxes, that pays for government, another class of Americans thats growing more and more dependent on
government. Thats what we have today.
Socialism is bad, not only for taxpayers, but for people that they say theyre trying to help. There is dignity
in work. There is dignity in self-sufficiency.
I want to quote to you a president. A previous president said this. He said, The problem is, is that tax rates
are too high. Government income/revenues are too low. He said, paradoxically, lowering tax rates now is
the best way to produce higher government revenues later.
No, that wasnt President Reagan, as many are probably guessing at home. That was President Kennedy.
I see you know the answer. That was President Kennedy. Imagine if he were alive today and if he was at
that last Democratic debate. Imagine if you try to say that in a party thats gearing towards socialism, that
wouldnt be welcome in todays Democratic Party.
BECKY: Governor, thank you.

JOHN: Governor Pataki, youve indicated you believe climate change is real and caused at least in part by
human activity. So in 60 seconds, tell us what the federal government is to do about it.
PATAKI: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that troubles me about the Republican Party is too often we
question science that everyone accepts. I mean, its ridiculous in the 21st century we are questioning
whether or not () things are the appropriate way to go. Of course they are. And its also not appropriate to
think that human activity, putting CO2 into the atmosphere, doesnt make the earth warmer, all things being
equal. It does. Its uncontroverted.
I think part of the problem is the () way Republicans think about climate change. Say, Oh, my God. We are
going to have higher taxes, more Obama, more big government, the EPA shutting down factories. Thats
not the solution I see.
I want Republicans to embrace innovation and technology. You know, there is one country in the world that
has fewer greenhouse gas emissions than the rest of the world. You know what that is? The United States.
Our emissions are lower than they were in 1995. Not because of a government program, but because of
fracking, private sector creation
JOHN: Is there a role for government?
PATAKI: Governments role is to incentivize innovation and the entrepreneurial spirit in America. We can
have far more clean energy. We can have next generation nuclear reactors that have no risk of meltdown.
We can have solar panels on every home that are four times more efficient than today.
JOHN: So subsidies for those programs, for those alternative
PATAKI: R&D credits that the private sectors do this, develop this innovation. Not only would we solve our
problems, we would have clean energy, cheaper energy here. We could export those technologies to
places like China, like India. So we would grow our economy, have a far greater impact globally, have a
secured domestic source of energy and cleaner, healthier air. Thats the solution. Embrace science,
embrace innovation and change.
JOHN: Thank you, Governor.
Carl.
CARL: Question for Senator Santorum.
>>> Can I just say something about this?
CARL: After this question, maybe.
The 2015 Nobel Prize winner for economics argues that slow growth causes poverty. And that leads to
inequality. What would you do to ease inequality and what would you do to solve poverty?
By the way, thanks to Larry Kudlow of CNBC for this question.
SANTORUM: Well, if you look at a plan that I introduced, the 20/20 clear vision for America, we increased
growth by 10 percent, 1 percent a year. So we go from 2.3 to 3.3. In repealing Obamacare, its another .7.
So youre looking at 4 percent growth, according to the Tax Foundation.
And unlike Donald Trump and Bobby Jindal, we dont add $10 trillion to the deficit. In fact, our plan, while it
creates as many jobs as their plan does, and grows the economy as much as theirs does, we are a
revenue-neutral plan because I believe that we need to reduce the size of government, yes, but we also

need to reduce our deficit, and we need to get our budget balanced so we can start paying down this debt.
And adding a trillion dollars worth of tax cut and getting no more growth is not the way to do it. But thats
only half of it. The word economy comes from the Greek word oikos, which means family.
The family is the first economy. The one thing that we do not talk about enough is how stable families are
vitally important for the middle of America to be prosperous and grow and be safe. And I will have policies
not just tax policies that will make sure that families are strong again in America.
CARL: Governor Jindal, I want to give you 30 seconds on this.
JINDAL: Well, thank you. Look, if Senator Santorum wants to concede the tax cut wing of the Republican
Party, Im happy to fight for that side of the Republican party. Hes exactly right. I explicitly want to shrink
the size of government. 22 percent over ten years is not too much. Weve cut our state budget 26 percent
in 8 years.
This is a fundamental choice. We mustnt become a cheaper version of the Democratic Party, a second
liberal party. We need to proudly say were willing to cut taxes, shrink government, grow the American
economy.
President Kennedy said it to the Democratic Party, why cant we say it in the Republican Party in 2015.
Lets cut taxes.
[APPLAUSE]
JOHN: Governor, if you cut spending and cut government so much, why does your legislature have such a
big deficit?
JINDAL: John, our budget is balanced. We balanced our budget every year for 8 years. Yeah, we had to
cut spending. You know what? We privatized or closed 9 of our 10 charity hospitals. We did statewide
school choice.
JOHN: $1.6 billion budget gap.
JINDAL: Youre quoting an old number from the beginning of the year. We closed that gap. What they talk
about, just like DC, government is the only place where if you give them less money than they wanted,
they count it as a cut. They take last years budget, they add inflation, they call it a baseline. We need to
do zero-based budgeting. We need to say just because you got money last year, you dont have it this
year let me close, though. We balanced our budget. We didnt raise taxes. In 8 years weve never
raised taxes. We cut taxes. Our taxpayers, our families are the better off for it.
JOHN: Im going to bring on my colleague Sharon Epperson.
SHARON EPPERSON: Thank you, John.
Senator Graham, one in every four workers has saved less than a thousand dollars for retirement. Millions
of Americans rely on the Social Security benefits for the majority of their retirement income.
Now you called for reforms to Social Security. But what would you do to fix the other part of the problem for
future retirees and get people to save more?
GRAHAM: Well, number one, Social Security is not just a concept to me. I know why it exists. 50 percent
of todays seniors would be in poverty without a Social Security check. I promise you, if you make me your
President, I will save Social Security because I know why it exists.

Now, if youre looking for good beer policy, Im your best bet. My dad owned the bar.
[LAUGHTER]
I know beer. We grew up, my sister and myself, in the back of that bar, in one room with my mom, my dad
and my sister, who is nine years younger. When I was 21, my mom was diagnosed with Hodgkins disease.
Neither parent finished high school. She died within a year. We were wiped out from the medical bills. And
if it wasnt for Social Security survivor benefit check coming into my family, we wouldnt have made it.
Because my dad died 15 months later. So Im
SHARON: Senator Graham
GRAHAM: Wait a minute, please. Im 22, and were wiped out. I am 60. Im not married; I have a military
retirement. Im in good shape. I would give up some of my benefits to help those who need it more than I
do.
To young people here, I will ask you to work a little bit longer because we have to. The purpose of my
presidency
SHARON: Thank you.
GRAHAM: is to save this country. And to save Social Security by working across the aisle, just like
Ronald Reagan. This is the biggest issue facing this nation.
SHARON: Thank you, Senator Graham. Thank you, Senator Graham.
Governor Jindal, youve been a strong supporter of for-profit colleges, either institutions that educate many
veterans, minorities, and working-class Americans. They make up about 11 percent of the college
population at these schools, but they account for 44 percent of student loan defaults.
Should for-profit schools be held accountable when they take taxpayer money and leave students deep in
debt?
JINDAL: Well, two things. Absolutely they should be accountable. They should be accountable for their
students through the market.
Look, you either trust the American people to make their own choices or you dont. I know the Left thinks
we need to be protected from ourselves. President Obama is trying to limit competition in the highereducation market. As a result, you are going to see tuition prices continue to go up. Weve got a trillion
dollars of student debt, and counting, and he wants to exempt certain schools from the same oversight he
wants to apply only to the for-profit market.
For some reason, the private sector is a bad word to this President. Its not in the real world.
In Louisiana, we fought so that the dollars follow the child, instead of the child following the dollar. What
that means from K through 12, what that means is that parents and their families can decide what is the
best way for their children to be educated. Higher education, we have a TOPS program, where again, we
will help if a student maintains a 20 ACT, 2.5 GPA, well pay for their tuition. They can take those dollars to
a private school of their choice in the state as well. You either trust the American people or you dont.
I know the Left doesnt.
Thats why you get Obamacare, and they want to tell us what kind of insurance to buy. Thats why you get
Common Core. They want to take away our gun rights under the Second Amendment. They want to take

away our religious liberty rights.

So, yes, there is accountability to the students through choice and competition. We dont need the nanny
state to protect us from ourselves.
SHARON: Thank you, Governor Jindal.
BECKY: Welcome back to Boulder, Colorado, and the Republican Presidential Debate on CNBC.
Gentlemen, this is our lightning round. We have questions for you, and we hope you can answer in 20
seconds or less, and we will go right down the line on this.
Governor Jindal, Ill start with you. Wondering, what are the three apps that you use most frequently on
your cell phone?
JINDAL: I was just saying to my colleague, I may be the last person in this audience without an iPhone.
Im actually one of the last ones, I still have a BlackBerry in my pocket, and I basically use it for scheduling.
I use it to keep up with my wifes here, my three kids at home.
The only games on that phone are Brick Layer. I use it to keep up with the news on the internet. I may be
the last American out there without a smartphone. My apologies.
BECKY: No, Im with you. I still have a BlackBerry, too.
Senator Santorum, how about you?
SANTORUM: MLB, NHL. So Im a big sports fan. And the Wall Street Journal. Those are the three apps I
use the most.
BECKY: Thank you. Governor?
PATAKI: The one I use the most is Uber. You know, I used to get driven. When I was governor, I had a
driver. I dont anymore. Its an example of what Millennials are doing to change America for the better. And
I tweet a lot, too. So Uber, Twitter, and then I communicate with my family.
BECKY: Thank you. Senator Graham?
GRAHAM: Well, number one, the only reason I have an iPhone is because I gave my number to Donald
Trump. Dont do that.
[LAUGHTER]
That was more upgrading technology in my whole staff. Number one, FOX News. Sorry, CNBC. Were in
the Republican primary here.
>> Thanks a lot.
BECKY: Well take your time back.
GRAHAM: Times up.
>> Take the microphone.
CARL: Weve got one more. One more lightning round.
Governor Jindal, should the day after the Super Bowl be a national holiday?

JINDAL: Absolutely. When the Saints go back to repeat we were talking about beer sales earlier. All
those folks who are being hung over in Louisiana from drinking and celebrating Drew Brees winning it, I
think it would be a great day to take off.
No, look. On a serious note, I do want to say this about the Super Bowl and our athletes. They can be
great role models for our children, and Im, obviously, a Saints fan. Drew Brees and his wife, great role
models, great Christians. So, yes, it should be a holiday.
CARL: Senator?
SANTORUM: Well, since were usually in the Super Bowl, the Pittsburgh Steelers Steeler Nation,
anybody? No.
I was in Kansas City over the weekend to watch the Steeler game, and about a third of the crowd were
Steeler fans, so Im usually not alone when I call out Steeler Nation. But we are used to being in the
Super Bowl, so actually, it is in Pennsylvania already.
CARL: Governor?
PATAKI: Im a long-suffering Jets fan, so my answer is no, theres no reason to take off the day after the
Super Bowl.
[LAUGHTER]
Let me just add this. The Mets are going to win tonight.
CARL: Finally, Senator.
GRAHAM: Well, I think a national holiday would be the day that Commander in Chief Barack Obama
doesnt have that job.
[APPLAUSE]
But unlike these other three, I want to win New Hampshire. Go Tom Brady, go Patriots.
[BOOS]
GRAHAM: Sorry, Colorado.
JOHN: Now were at the point in the evening where were just about to give our candidates a holiday from
this debate. But not before they tell us in 30 seconds their closing statements.
Senator Graham, youre first.
GRAHAM: Somebody said, or maybe I saw it on the bill of a cap: Lets make America great again. America
is great!
[APPLAUSE]
I intend to make America strong again.
Im going to be the champion of the middle class where I came from. If you make me your President, our
best days are ahead. Im ready to be commander in chief.
Ladies and gentlemen, on day one, I intend to win a war that we cannot afford to lose. I will be a
commander in chief worthy of sacrifice of those brave Americans who have been defending our nation.

They have had our back. God knows they have had our back. I intend to have their back as commander in
chief. Make me commander in chief.
JOHN: Thank you, Senator Graham.
Governor Pataki?
PATAKI: Thank you for the opportunity to be with this great audience tonight. Im a limited government
conservative. And I mean by that that not just when it comes to economic issues, leaving them to the state,
but social issues as well. And in that I differ from every single other candidate seeking the Republican
nomination. I take the Tenth Amendment very, very seriously.
Im a Republican who embraces science and understands we have to work with the next generation of
Millennials to have the innovation and technology so that we can grow a 21st century economy.
And Im a Republican who understands in Washington, when youre a leader, you have to put aside
partisan politics to do whats right for the people. We are one America. We work together across party
lines. There is no problem we cant solve, and the 21st century will be Americas greatest century.
Thank you very much.
[APPLAUSE]
JOHN: Thank you, Governor.
Senator Santorum.
SANTORUM: I grew up in a steel town in western Pennsylvania, outside of Pittsburgh, and when I
announced for President, I announced from a factory floor.
When I talk about making America the number one manufacturer again in the world, its not just talk. When
I talk about having the opportunity for people to rise again, its not just because it polls well.
I represented the old steel valley of Pittsburgh. I represented a 70 percent Democratic district and won with
60 percent of the vote. Why? Because I aligned myself with working men and women who feel that neither
party and certainly not Washington, D.C., cares about them. You are like me. We will get American
workers on the side of the Republican party, and we cannot be stopped if we do.
JOHN: Senator Santorum, thank you.
Governor Jindal.
[APPLAUSE]
JINDAL: Our message is to conservatives. This is our hour. Thanks to the insanity, the incompetence of
the Democratic Party, the American people are ready to turn our government over to us.
Its not enough to elect just any Republican, however. The reality is, the idea of America is slipping away.
As Christians, we believe that the tomb is empty. As Americans, we believe that our best days are always
ahead of us, and they can be again.
We must win this election. We cannot allow Hillary Clinton to take us down this path towards socialism,
further down this path. Ive got the courage to apply our conservative principles. I cant do it alone. With
your help, with Gods grace, we can save the idea of America before its too late.

JOHN: Governor Jindal, thank you very much.

CARL: That concludes our first part of the evening. Were going to get set up for our next round. In the
meantime, CNBCs Kelly Evans and Joe Kernen pick up our continuing coverage.
[APPLAUSE]
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