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REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES PARTICIPATE IN A CNN-SPONSORED DEBATE (#1),
SIMI VALLEY, CALIFORNIA
SEPTEMBER 16, 2015
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HOST
TAPPER: We're live at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California for one of the
most highly anticipated primary season debates ever. On this stage 15 candidates in two rounds of
questioning with one goal, to show they have what it takes to be the Republican Presidential Nominee.
Welcome to our viewers, I'm Jake Tapper. Tonight's debate is airing on CNN networks around the world,
and, of course, here in the United States. It's also being broadcast across the country on the Salmen (ph)
Radio Network.
We want to thank our host, former First Lady Nancy Reagan, and the Reagan Library for this very
impressive setting, the Air Force One pavilion. Behind me, you can see the actual plane...
TAPPER: (APPLAUSE)...That Ronald Reagan flew in when he was president.
Now, because the GOP field is so large, we have divided the candidates into two groups based on their
rankings in recent national polls. Later this evening we will hear from the top 11 contenders. The other four
candidates are taking part in the first round, and they are ready to join us now.
Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.
(APPLAUSE)
Louisiana Governor, Bobby Jindal.
(APPLAUSE)
The former U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania, Rick Santorum.
(APPLAUSE)
and former New York Governor, George Pataki.
(APPLAUSE)
Ladies and gentleman, please welcome these Republican candidates for President of the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
And, now, if you would, please rise for our national anthem performed by actress and singer, Natalie Hill.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(APPLAUSE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: I'd like to ask the candidates to please take their podiums while I tell you a
little more about how tonight debate will work.
I'm Jake Tapper. I'll be the moderator.
Joining me in the questioning, Salem Radio Network talk show host Hugh Hewitt; he worked in the Reagan
administration for six years and CNN's chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: I will follow up and guide the discussion; candidates, I'll try to make sure each of you gets your
fair share of questions. You'll have one minute to answer questions and 30 seconds for followups and
rebuttals. I'll give you time to respond if you have been singled out for criticism.
We have timing lights that are visible to the candidates. Those lights will warn them when their time is up.
Our goal tonight is to have a true debate, candidates actually addressing each other in areas where they
disagree, where they differ on policy, on politics and on leadership.
Now that everyone is in place, it's time for the candidates to introduce themselves to our audience. Please
keep it brief.
Governor Pataki, you're first.
GEORGE PATAKI, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: Thank you, Jake.
Hi, I'm George Pataki, and I am honored to be here this afternoon with all of you at the Reagan Library.
You know, when I think of Ronald Reagan, I think of his tremendous smile, a smile that reflected his
optimism and his unending belief and faith in America and in Americans.
And it was that belief in America that led to a great presidency, a presidency that led to decades of safety,
security and prosperity for America. That's exactly the type of leadership we need in Washington today and
that's why I'm running for President of the United States. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
RICK SANTORUM, FORMER SENATOR: Hi, I'm Rick Santorum. Some of you may know me because I led
the fight to end partial birth abortion. Some of you may know me because the I led the fight to end welfare
as we know it, put people back to work, reduce poverty and reduce the federal budget.
Some of you may know me because I successfully put sanctions on the Iranian nuclear program in
Congress, over opposition of both parties initially.
But hopefully, most of you know me most because I'm the proud father of seven children with particularly a
special little disabled girl, who is the heart and core of my heart and married to a wonderful woman named
Karen for 25 years, who is the love of my life.
(APPLAUSE)
on our watch. We have a once in a lifetime opportunity to rescue the idea of America, the choice for
conservatives. Do we depend on proven conservative principles like Ronald Reagan did, or do we turn this
over to a narcissist who only believes in himself...
TAPPER: Thank you, Governor.
JINDAL: Thank you, Jake.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Senator Santorum, do you think Governor Jindal is wrong for attacking your party's front runner?
SANTORUM: I think personal attacks, just please one person, Hillary Clinton.
And all we do when we go after each other - and we've seen a bunch of it, from people up on this stage,
people who are going to be on the stage afterwards, who go after and make personal attacks on people.
There are plenty of policy differences between the candidates up here and the candidates later.
Donald Trump has ever right to run for president as a Republican, as anybody else in this audience, and
he may have positions I disagree with, but he has the right to do that and the people should be given the
benefit of the doubt for people to see through these things.
I don't think it helps when Republicans attack Republicans personally. I'll say some things tonight which
will be very big differences. The issue of immigration is one that there are huge differences in this field, and
I will be out there talking about how we have to control immigration. How we have to look after the
American worker.
The focus of this debate should be on how we're going to win this election and help improve the quality of
life for American workers, and we aren't doing that, when we're out there picking at each other and calling
each other names.
The name we should call out is, what are we going to do for average Americans losing ground in America
today. And that should be our focus.
TAPPER: Thank you.
Governor Jindal, do you want to respond to that?
(APPLAUSE)
JINDAL: Absolutely. Look, the reality is, Hillary Clinton is gift-wrapping this election to us. They are running
their weakest candidate. They have got a socialist that is gaining on Hillary Clinton. Folks, you can't make
that up. A socialist is doing well in the Democratic primary.
The best way for us to give this election back would be to nominate a Donald Trump. He'll implode in the
general election, or if, God forbid, if he were in the White House, we have no idea what he would do.
You can't just attack him on policy. He doesn't care about policy. It's not enough to say he was for
socialized medicine or higher taxes...
TAPPER: Thank you, Governor.
JINDAL: He's not serious.
TAPPER: Senator Santorum, just to assure you, we will get to those issues. But just a couple more on this
general subject.
Senator Graham, you have called Donald Trump a, quote, "wrecking ball for the Republican party." Voters
in your home state of South Carolina, in a recent poll, prefer Donald Trump 30 percent to your 4 percent.
How do you explain why so many of your constituents would rather have Donald Trump as the Republican
nominee than you?
GRAHAM: Well, all I can say, if you looked at polling in 2012 and 2008 at this level, we'd have - at this
stage, we would have President Perry and President Giuliani. I have a long way to go.
And here's what I'm going to try to do tonight - convince you that I'm best qualified to be the commander-inchief of the one percent who are doing the fighting for the rest of us. And we'll have a serious discussion
tonight.
GRAHAM: All of us are going to say we want to destroy ISIL.
But here's what I'm going to tell you. What we're doing is not working. I have a plan to do it. If I'm president
of the United States, we're going to send more ground forces into Iraq because we have to. President
Obama made a huge mistake by leaving too soon against sound military advice.
To every candidate tonight, are you willing to commit before the American people that you will destroy ISIL
and you understand we need a ground force to do it?
Are you willing - Jake, please ask everybody the following question.
Would you go from 3,500 to 10,000 American boots on the ground in Iraq to destroy ISIL?
Because if you don't, we're going to lose.
Are you willing to send American combat forces into Syria as part of a regional army, because if you don't,
we'll never destroy ISIL in Syria.
If you're not ready to these things you're not ready to be commander-in-chief.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator Graham.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: We're going to bring in Hugh Hewitt now, who has a question for Governor Pataki.
HUGH HEWITT, TALK RADIO HOST: Thank you, Jake.
Governor, you signed the pledge to support the Republican nominee and you promptly broke it. By doing
so, by Tweeting out that you would not support Donald Trump, have you released Donald Trump to be a
free agent again or anyone else in the field?
GEORGE PATAKI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. Hugh, not at all. I have not broken the pledge
because Donald Trump is not going to be the Republican nominee, period, flat out, I guarantee you that. I
would vote...
HEWITT: Governor...
PATAKI: - for the Republican nominee...
HEWITT: - you said on Twitter that you would not support Donald Trump.
President Obama is making a mess of the world. What I'm trying to tell you here tonight, that Syria is hell
on Earth and it's not going to get fixed by insulting each other. I've been there 35 times to Iraq and
Afghanistan. I am ready to be commander-in-chief on day one.
I've been in the military 33 years, 140 days on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am so ready to get on
with winning a war that we can't afford to lose.
I hope you believe that experience matters. It's an all- volunteer force of - when you vote for commander-inchief, they are stuck with your choice. We've had one novice being commander-in- chief. Let's don't
replace one novice with another.
And if I thought...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
GRAHAM: - I could win this war without more American ground forces in Iraq and Syria, I would tell you,
but we can't...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
GRAHAM: - and if we don't get on with this, they are coming here.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
Let's turn to the topic of immigration.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: For that, I want to bring in my colleague, Dana Bash.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Senator Santorum, Governor Jindal has supported a pathway to
citizenship for undocumented immigrants once the border is secure.
Why do you disagree with that?
RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, in fact, just about everybody in this field
supports some pathway to citizenship. There are just a few, Governor Jindal, Senator Cruz, Senator
Rubio, Jeb Bush, a lot of others, Senator Graham, all support some sort of amnesty at some point in time
or another.
And this is really the interesting thing about this whole debate. This debate should not be about what we're
going to do with someone who's here illegally.
SANTORUM: This debate should not be about what we're going to do with someone who's here illegally;
This debate should be about what - what every other debate on every other policy issue is in America.
What's in the best interest of hardworking Americans? What's in the best interest of our country.
We've had to focus because the other side has set up for us, here is who we have to be concerned about
on the issue of immigration, someone who's here illegally and their family, and what are we going to do
about it? A greater leader will see that the objection of every law in America is to do what's in the best
interest of America.
And what's in the best interest of America right now is to look at wages, look at employment among wager
earners. 70 to 90 percent of people who've come into this country, 35 million over the last 20 years, are
wage earners that are holding wages down, taking jobs away from America.
BASH: Senator, your time's up. I want to get the governor to respond to that.
JINDAL: Yeah, I wanted to clarify - I want to make very clear that everybody understands my position is,
we need to secure the border, period.
Any talk of doing any more - we don't need a comprehensive plan, don't need an 1,000-page bill, like the
Gang of Eight. We don't need amnesty.
Everybody in D.C. talks about it. We need to get it done. As president, I'll get it done in six months. It won't
be perfect, but we can get it done.
I'm not for amnesty. We do need to secure the border. A smart immigration makes our - our country
stronger. Right now, we've got a weak one.
One of the things I've said - I know the left - I know Hillary didn't like this - immigration without assimilation
is invasion. We need to insist the people who come here come here legally, learn English, adopt our
values, roll up their sleeves and get to work. We do need to secure the border.
(APPLAUSE)
BASH: Senator - Senator Santorum, do you buy that, that the governor's not for amnesty?
SANTORUM: Well, just because you don't call it amnesty doesn't mean that what - what almost everybody
in this field is for is allowing people who are in this country illegally, people who broke the law to come into
this country, people who came here legally and overstayed, to stay in - in America.
Again, we have 35 million - we have the highest percentage of - of - of immigrants in this country, as far as
numbers ever, as far as percentage, the - the highest in 105 years. Wages are flatlining.
The reason that you're seeing the angst and the anger out there and the reason this issue has taken off is
because workers in America know that their wages are being undermined.
If you look at, from the year 2000 to the year 2014, there're 5.7 million net new jobs created. What
percentage of those jobs are held by people who weren't born here? The answer is all of them.
The fact is, American workers are - are getting hurt by immigration...
BASH: Senator, your time is up...
SANTORUM: ... and that's why they're upset.
BASH: Your time is up.
And Governor, I'm sorry. Just - you - you really need to clarify your position, because you say you're not for
amnesty, but you have been for a path to citizenship...
JINDAL: Dana, that's not right. What I've said consistently is secure the border. I've said after that is done,
the American people will deal with the folks that are here pragmatically and compassionately.
Now, Rick, if he wants to say that Rubio, Senator Rubio, or Jeb or others are for amnesty, that's his right.
I'm not for amnesty. I've never been for amnesty, will never be for amnesty.
Secure the border. We don't need to do that as a comprehensive - I've also said we need to put an end to
sanctuary cities. It's not enough to defund them; I think we need to criminalize, accuse and jail those
mayors and councilman as accessories...
why they are coming here, so we don't have this flood of people coming here for the wrong reasons.
TAPPER: Senator Graham, most countries in the world do not have birthright citizenship.
GRAHAM: Probably for a good reason.
TAPPER: Why do you think Governor Pataki is wrong?
GRAHAM: Well, let's talk about immigration. Number one, I like Rick. I don't remember the Santorum plan
when I was in the Senate.
The peanut gallery on this is interesting. I have been trying to solve this problem for a decade. There are
no democrats here tonight. If you're here, raise your hand. You went to the wrong - we'll, welcome. Thank
you very much for coming.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Was that a...
GRAHAM: The bottom line, I'm trying to pitch the problem. We're not going to deport 11 million people here
illegally, but we'll start with felons, and off they go. And, as to the rest, you can stay, but you got to learn our
language. I don't speak it very well, well, look how far I've come?
(LAUGHTER) Speaking English is a good thing. You got to pay taxes, you got to pay a fine, you got to get
in the back of the line. You've got to secure your border or they'll keep coming. If you don't control who gets
a job that never ends - so (ph) got two borders. One with Canadia - Canada, one with Mexico. I never met
an illegal Canadian.
This is an economic problem, so, folks, let's solve it. Amnesty is doing nothing, and that's what we've been
doing.
As to birthright citizenship, once we clean up this mess, in the future, prospectively, I'm going to look at the
following. There are people buying tourist visas that go to resorts with maternity wards with the expressed
purpose of having a children here in America. There are rich Asians, there are rich people up in the MidEast...
TAPPER: ...Thank you Senator...
GRAHAM: ...That to me is bastardizing citizenship...
TAPPER: ...Thank you Senator...
GRAHAM: ...Yeah, I'd like to stop that in the future...
TAPPER(?): Governor Pataki, I'd just want to...
SANTORUM: ...Hold on, hold on, hold on...
TAPPER: ...We'll come back to you Senator Santorum, I promise...
SANTORUM: ...He mentioned my name, and that i didn't have a plan. And, the fact of the matter is...
TAPPER: ...alright...
SANTORUM: ...that I did have a plan back in 2006. I introduced a plan called, A Comprehensive Border
Security Bill, which did, in fact, put the resources to build the fencing, and deploy the troops, and the
technology necessary which...
GRAHAM: ...What do you do with the 11 million?
SANTORUM: As you know, Lindsay...
GRAHAM: ...What are you going to do with the 11 million?
SANTORUM: ...As you know, 40 to 60 percent of the 11 million are here on visa overstays. We know
exactly who they are, we should know where they are, but we have a government that doesn't tell them to
return home. You can solve half of the problem of the 11 million...
GRAHAM: ...Well, what about the other half...
SANTORUM: ...by simply telling the 11 million that they have to return to their country of origin, so, that's
half your problem...
GRAHAM: ...How many democrats support yourplan...
SANTORUM: ...Now, it's not 11 million...
GRAHAM: ...How many democrats did you have on your bill?
SANTORUM: I don't know how many democrats I had on my bill...
GRAHAM: ...I can tell you. None.
SANTORUM: But, the point is - the point is is that I had a bill...
GRAHAM: ...That went nowhere.
SANTORUM: Well, you're right, Lindsay, it went no where because we had a president back then who was
for more comprehensive immigration reform...
GRAHAM: ...George W. Bush...
SANTORUM: ...That's right...
GRAHAM: ...Who won with hispanics.
SANTORUM: You know what we need to do...
GRAHAM: ...Compared to what we're doing...
SANTORUM: Lindsay, is we need to win - we need to win fighting for Americans. We need to win fighting
for the workers in this country...
GRAHAM: ...Hispanics...
SANTORUM: ...who are hurting, including including hispanics...
GRAHAM: ...Are Americans...
SANTORUM: ...the people who are hurt the most by illegal immigration are hispanics.
not short-circuit; we have got a vetting process, we've got a normal refugee process. Simply allowing more
into our country doesn't solve this problem.
The way to solve this problem is for us to be clear to our friends and allies that we're going to replace
Assad, we're going to hunt down and destroy ISIS; our friends don't trust us, our enemies don't fear and
respect us.
But I want to go back on immigration. Let me be very clear. Immigration, we need to insist on assimilation
in immigration. My parents came here legally almost 45 years ago. They came here, they followed the rule
of law. They knew English, they adopted the values. They didn't come here to be hyphenated Americans.
They're not Indian Americans. They're not Asian Americans. They're TAPPER: Thank you, Governor.
JINDAL: We - it is important we insist on that in immigration going TAPPER: Thank you, Governor.
Senator Graham, your response when it comes to Syrian refugees?
GRAHAM: Yes, number one, how does President Obama sleep at night?
Look what you let happen on your watch. Your commanders told you, don't withdrawal from Iraq because
we'll lose of our gains.
Three years ago your entire national security team, Senator McCain and I begged you to do a no-fly zone
and help the Free Syrian Army while it would matter. But you said no.
I'm not blaming Bobby, I'm not blaming Rick, I'm not blaming anybody, I'm blaming Barack Obama for this
mess.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: I want to turn now UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I want to fix it.
TAPPER: We're going to keep talking about the situation in the Middle East. Let me bring in my colleague,
Dana Bash, again.
BASH: Thank you.
Senator Graham, you mentioned this earlier; you are calling for an additional 20,000 U.S. ground forces to
fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria and you have said - again, just this evening - that anyone who's not willing to do
that should not be commander in chief.
GRAHAM: Right.
BASH: No one on this stage has gone that far.
So are you saying, for Iraq and Syria, are you saying that everybody to your right is not fit for the Oval
Office?
GRAHAM: I'm saying this, if they don't understand that Barack Obama's policies are not working, that
we're not going to destroy ISIL in Iraq and Syria from the air, they are not ready.
What have I learned in 35 trips? I learned what works and what doesn't.
We were in a good spot in Iraq, President Bush made mistakes but he adjusted. To those who fought in
Iraq, you did your job and Barack Obama wasted it all.
Now we're in a spot where, if we don't destroy ISIL soon, they are coming here. There are 3,500 American
boots on the ground. You would never know it, hearing your president, but we need about 10,000 to turn
the tide of battle in Iraq. Then there is nobody left, Dana, to train inside of Syria.
We spent $50 million training 54 people and they are down to four or five. They have been slaughtered. So
we're going to need a regional army, the turks, the Jordanians, the Saudis, the Egyptians get their armies
up together and 90 percent of it will be them. They're going to pay for this war because we paid for the last
two.
But 10 percent at least will have to be us and we're going in on the ground and we're going to pull the
caliphate up by its roots and we're going to kill every one of these bastards we can find because, if we
don't, they are coming here.
(APPLAUSE)
BASH: Senator (CROSSTALK)
BASH: - Senator Santorum, I know you're raising your hand.
You're committing to this number of troops, both in Iraq and on the ground in Syria?
SANTORUM: I have proposed 10,000 troops, I did so about six or seven months ago, that we needed to
deploy additional troops to do exactly what Lindsey said, arm the Kurds, arm (CROSSTALK)
BASH: And he's saying 20,000.
Would you...?
SANTORUM: I've said - I've said 10,000 and, if more is necessary, look, the answer is this, once ISIS
established a caliphate, the game changed because once you establish a caliphate, you have an area of
control, you have to take ground from that caliphate, because if you don't, then, in the Islamic world, it's
seen as a legitimate caliphate.
As long as they have territorial integrity, and even expand it, they have legitimacy and much of the Muslim
world to call people to join their jihad here in America as well as in Iraq and in Syria. So we must take their
ground.
BASH: Thank you, Senator.
Governor Jindal?
JINDAL: Look, absolutely. We need to do whatever is necessary to hunt down and kill these radical Islamic
terrorists but this president has helped - his policies have helped to contribute to this problem.
He went to the Pentagon the same week they announced they were cutting back the number of troops in
the Army to say that we're not going to win this through guns, it's going to be a change of hearts and
minds. This will be a generational conflict, that is nonsense. These are barbarians.
They are burning, crucifying people alive, Christians and other Muslims. We need to hunt them down and TAPPER: Thank you, Governor.
JINDAL: - by having a president willing to TAPPER: Thank you, Governor.
JINDAL: - Islamic TAPPER: Thank you, thank you, Governor.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: - does that include American ground forces in Syria as part of a regional army?
Are all of you willing to commit to American ground forces going into Syria as part of a regional army to
destroy the caliphate and its headquarters?
TAPPER: Governor Pataki PATAKI: Lindsey, let me comment on this.
Last week was the anniversary of September 11th and I was governor of New York on September 11th and
led us through that horrible day.
PATAKI: And I learned that we cannot assume that because radical Islam is a continent away, it doesn't
pose a threat to us here in America. It did then, and today, I think, we are at greater risk of an attack than
at any time since.
We have got to destroy ISIS's ability to attack us here. But it's not 10,000 troops. It's not 20,000 troops. In
my view, it's three things. First, we have to directly arm those fighting ISIS on the ground now. The Kurds...
TAPPER: Thank you, Governor. Sorry. We have rules and timing.
Governor Jindal, I do want to bring you in. I want to turn to a story in news in the story today. A 14-year-old
Muslim high school student in Texas was arrested on Monday for bringing a homemade clock to school
after it was mistaken for a fake bomb. Police released the young man after they determined it was, in fact,
a clock. Today, President Obama invited that student to the White House.
Governor Jindal, throughout your campaign, you've spoken many times about Muslim extremists in this
country. How would you, as president, strike a balance between vigilance and discrimination?
JINDAL: Well, Jake, look, I think the American people - we don't discriminate anybody based on the color
of their skin or their creed. I think the way you strike that balance, you say to Muslim leaders, they have got
two responsibilities.
One, it's not enough to denounce just simply generic acts of violence. They have got to denounce the
individuals by name, and say these are not martyrs. These terrorists are not martyrs; rather, they are going
straight to hell. They are not going to enjoy a reward in their afterlife.
Secondly, they have to explicitly embrace the same freedoms for everybody else they want for themselves.
Look, I know it's politically incorrect to say this, the president says Fort Hood was an issue of workplace
violence.
We are at war with radical Islam. Our president loves to apologize for America, he goes to the National
Prayer Breakfast, brings up the Crusades, criticizes Christians. We're at war today with radical Islamic
extremists.
It's not politically correct to say that, but the way you strike that balance, you say to Muslim leaders,
denounce these fools, these radical terrorists by name, say they are not martyrs.
TAPPER: Governor Jindal, I'm afraid you didn't answer the question. How do you strike the balance
between vigilance and discrimination?
Obviously, we know how you feel about the vigilance part of this. Do you ever see the discrimination part of
it?
JINDAL: Sure, I don't think a 14-year-old should ever get arrested for bringing a clock to school. So, if
you're asking me I'm glad he wasn't - he was released. I'm glad that police are careful. I'm glad they are
worried about security and safety issues.
Look, in America we don't tolerate them. The biggest discrimination is going on against Christian business
owners and individuals who believe in traditional forms of marriage. They are throwing this woman in jail in
Kentucky.
(APPLAUSE)
Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the Christian florist, the caterer, the musician, who simply want to say,
don't arrest us for having - or don't discriminate against us, don't shut down our businesses, don't fine us
thousands of dollars for believing marriage is between a man and a woman. Lets talk about not
discriminating against Christians.
TAPPER: Thank you, Governor. We will get to that subject later in the debate.
Senator Graham?
GRAHAM: Well, you know, Kim Davis, I'm not worried about her attacking me. I am worried about radical
Islamic terrorists who are already here planning another 9/11.
We're at war, folks. I'm not fighting a crime. I want to have a legal system that understands the difference
between fighting a war and fighting a crime, and here's the reality. Young men from the Mid- East are
different than Kim Davis. And we've got to understand that.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
GRAHAM: Islamic websites need to be monitored.
PATAKI: Jake...
GRAHAM: And if you are on one, I want to know what you're doing.
TAPPER: Governor Pataki?
PATAKI: Jake, if I can comment on this. Yes, Kim Davis is different from Islamist radicalists from the Middle
East.
But on the other hand, we have run rule in America, an elected official can't say I'm not going to follow that
law if it conflicts with my beliefs. I think she should have been fired and if she worked for me, I would have
fired her. We have to uphold the rule of law.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Thank you, Governor.
PATAKI: Imagine one minute - Jake, imagine one minute that was a Muslim who said I don't believe in gay
marriage, and refused to perform that wedding. We wouldn't have had that outrage. There's a place where
religion supersedes the rule of law. It's called Iran. It shouldn't be the United States.
TAPPER: We'll get to that subject in the next block. We're going to take a very quick break. When we come
back, both Jeb Bush and Donald Trump agree on one thing when it comes to taxes. We'll see if any of the
candidates on stage agree as well.
TAPPER: That's next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Welcome back to the CNN Republican Debate at the beautiful Reagan Library in Simi Valley,
California.
Before we took the break, you were all chomping at the bit to talk about Kim Davis, that Kentucky clerk.
Governor Pataki said he would have fired Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk jailed for refusing to issue samesex marriage licenses.
Senator Santorum, do you agree with Governor Pataki?
SANTORUM: 16 years ago, this country was tremendously inspired by a young woman who faced a
gunman in Columbine and was challenged about her faith and she refused to deny God. We saw her as a
hero.
Today, someone who refuses to defy (sic) a judge's unconstitutional verdict is ridiculed and criticized,
chastised because she's standing up and denying - not denying her God and her faith.
That is a huge difference in 16 years. People have a fundamental right in the First Amendment. There's no
more important right. It is the right that is the trunk that all other rights come from, and that's the freedom of
conscience.
And when we say in America that we have no room - how many bakers, how many florists, how many
pastors, how many clerks are we going to throw in jail because they stand up and say, "I cannot violate
what my faith says is against its teachings"? Is there not room in America? I believe there has to be room.
First, I believe we have to pass the First Amendment Defense Act, which provides that room for
government officials and others who do not want to be complicit in what they believe is against their faith.
Second, we need as a president who's going to fight a court that is abusive, that has superseded their
authority. Judicial supremacy is not in the Constitution, and we need a president and a Congress to stand
up to a court when it exceeds its constitutional authority.
(APPLAUSE)
it's time to have part-time citizen legislators. Let's pay them a per diem instead of a six-figure salary, stop
them from being seven-figure lobbyists. Let's also pay them a per diem for every day they don't go to D.C.
Let's keep them out of D.C., working in the real (CROSSTALK)
JINDAL: - let's make them live under the same rules and laws they apply to the rest of us. Not only
shouldn't they be elected, they can't be elected. Let's fire all of them from their current positions.
(APPLAUSE)
HEWITT: Senator Graham, took a shot at there and you're having a good debate but there is this problem
of Washington elites and saying wonderful things about each other.
GRAHAM: I've been called a lot of things but never elite before. My dad owned a liquor store, a bar and a
poolroom.
So only in America can you go from the back of a liquor store to being an elite.
HEWITT: Is that responsive to calling Hillary Clinton a national treasure, Senator?
GRAHAM: I introduced her at a conference about Africa. I thought Secretary Clinton did a good job when it
came to dealing with our problems in Africa, particularly among women. George W. Bush set $40 billion
aside and Rick Santorum helped him and President Bush wiped out an entire - wiped out AIDS and malaria
for an entire generation of young African children.
Secretary Clinton (APPLAUSE)
GRAHAM: - Secretary Clinton did a good - here's my problem with Secretary Clinton.
Where the hell were you on the night of the Benghazi attack?
How did you let it become a death threat to begin with?
And why did you lie about what happened to these people?
GRAHAM: And if you want a new change in terms of foreign policy, don't pick her, because she's his
secretary of state.
I've got a real good chance of beating her, because I don't say things bad about her all the time - just when
she deserves it. And her definition of flat broke and mine are a little bit different.
HEWITT: But Senator, can you go back and forth that way, and expect to have an argument with the
American people to persuade them about that?
GRAHAM: Well, Ronald Reagan did a couple of really big things that we should all remember.
He sat down with Tip O'Neill, the most liberal guy in the entire House. They started drinking together.
That's the first thing I'm going to do as president. We're going to drink more.
(APPLAUSE)
And what did this - two great Irishmen do? They found a way to save Social Security from bankruptcy by
adjusting the age of retirement from 65 to 67.
So, yes, I will say nice things at times about Democrats. Yes, I will work them - work with them.
(LAUGHTER)
I will put the country ahead of party. Absolutely I want to work with them. At the end of the day, Hugh, I'm
lucky to be standing here. I'm the first in my family to ever go to college. Neither one of my parents finished
high school. Darline's here with me tonight. We owned a restaurant...
HEWITT: Thank you, Senator.
GRAHAM: Well, wait a minute. We...
HEWITT: Thank you, senator.
GRAHAM: You asked me a question. This is important. Republicans need to tell the American people we
get it as to who you are.
When my mom died, I was 21. When my dad died, when I was 22. We were wiped out financially. If it
weren't for Social Security survivor benefit check coming into Darline, we wouldn't have made it. I don't
need a lecture from Democrats about Social Security.
HEWITT: Thank you, Senator.
GRAHAM: I want to save it, just like Ronald Reagan did.
(APPLAUSE)
HEWITT: Let's talk about the economy, if We could.
Governor Pataki.
PATAKI: Yes?
HEWITT: Jeb Bush and Donald Trump are both proposing raising taxes on hedge fund managers who pay
at a lower rate. Governor Pataki, you were the governor of New York, home of Wall Street.
Do you agree that hedge fund managers need to be paying a higher rate?
PATAKI: I would throw out the entire corrupt tax code.
(APPLAUSE)
It's a symbol of the corruption and the power of the lobbyists and the special interests in Washington. It is
74,000 pages of incomprehensible gobbledygook.
What I would do is get rid of the 1.4 million every year in exemptions and loopholes, dramatically lower the
rates. The normal American person is paying higher taxes than they should because of loopholes, and one
of them is that carried interest loophole.
I would tax that income the same as ordinary income. I'd lower the rate to 24 percent for all Americans, but
I would not give a special break to the Wall Street fat caps - fat cats.
HEWITT: So you are with Jeb Bush and Donald Trump on the hedge fund?
PATAKI: It's hard for me to say I'm with Donald trump on anything, but on this issue, I agree with him. But
three year phase in. We start at zero for manufacturers, phase it up to 20. You're going to see an
enormous investment of capital, and equipment. You're going to see people - you're going to have
problems finding folks are going to be able to work in manufacturing. That's how many jobs we're going to
create.
So, the answer is, you know, we're going to lower, and flatten taxes. We're going to put government on a on a budget. A 10 percent across the board cut...
BASH: ...times up, Senator.
SANTORUM: ...employment. We've got a lot of plans.
BASH: ...OK, times up, Senator. Governor, just to bring you back into this, you said that you would be OK
with what is effectively raising taxes on hedge fund managers as part of a tax reform plan. Would you aslo
be for doing away with people's deductions for their mortgages.
PATAKI: No, I would not. I would keep that deduction. I would lower the rates dramatically, so, yes, that root
that has a special carve out would pay more, but everybody else is going to pay less.
I would keep the home mortgage deduction, the charitable deduction, and others. And, by the way, you
know, I agree with Rick on manufacturing, but my approach is different. I would pass a rate on
manufacturing of 12 percent, the lowest in the developed world so we can make this America again. I know
how important those jobs are.
When I work - went through college, Christmas and summer vacations, I worked in a factory. My
grandparents worked in a factory. We have the opportunity now with lower energy costs, with the world
labor cost getting higher, to make things in America so we don't have to worry about China.
Lower the tax burden on manufacturing, improve the work skills...
TAPPER: ...Thank you, Governor...
PATAKI: ...of Americans. Get rid of job killing regulations. If we're going to...
TAPPER: ...Thank you, Governor...
PATAKI: ...If we're going to make this America...
TAPPER: ...I want to turn - you're going to be involved in the next question...
SANTORUM: ...Let me just...
TAPPER: ...Senator Graham...
SANTORUM: ...He talked about manufacturing, and the fact is that we have a zero percent rate that faces
the 20, we'd have a seven percent repatriation, so money - about two trillion dollars over seas...
TAPPER: ...Thank you, Senator...
SANTORUM: ...Would come back, and be invested in equipment here. We will create more jobs with this
plan, than any plan out...
TAPPER: ...Thank you Senator. Senator Graham, I want to turn to the minimum...
GRAHAM: If you want to see manufacturing, come to South Carolina...
MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
SANTORUM: Not from a party that supports special interest tax provisions for a whole bunch of other
businesses, and, but, when it comes to hardworking Americans who are at the bottom of the income scale,
we can't provide some level of income support? What I've proposed is not anything but the (ph) presidents
(ph) proposed (ph) I believe that would be harmful to the American public, but a $.50 cents an hour
increase over three years, which is what I'm proposing.
SANTORUM: So we would have a minimum wage which would be roughly in the area of what it's been
historically, about 5 percent of wages.
To me, if you're going to talk to 90 percent of American workers - by the way, 90 percent of American
workers don't own a bar. They don't own a business. They work for a living. They're wage - most of them
are wage earners.
And Republicans are losing elections because we're not talking about them. All we want to talk about is,
what happened to our business? There are people who work in that business.
I was at a - I was at the convention four years ago, and on the signs - on all of the seats the night I spoke
was a sign that said, "We built that," because Barack Obama had talked about how businesses didn't build
their own businesses.
Then we trotted out one small-business person after another for almost an hour that night talking about
how they built their businesses. And that's wonderful.
But you know what we didn't do? We didn't bring one worker on that stage.
How are you going to win, ladies and gentlemen? How are we going to win if 90 percent of Americans don't
think we care at all...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
SANTORUM: ... about them and their chance to rise...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator. We have to take a quick break.
When we come back, confrontation or negotiation? How will these candidates attempt to handle Russian
President Vladimir Putin? That's next.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: And we're back at the CNN Republican Debate at the Reagan Library in beautiful Simi Valley,
California.
TAPPER: Let's turn now to some issues of foreign policy.
Senator Graham, you all oppose the U.S. nuclear deal with Iran. Former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton, a
Republican, is pushing for a U.S. military strike against Iran, against its nuclear facilities.
Senator Graham, would you authorize, as president, a nuclear strike against - I mean, sorry - a strike
against Iran's nuclear facilities?
GRAHAM: If I believed they were trying to break out and get a bomb, absolutely. And here's the most
say is wonderful. But we have to win and, once we win, we have to actually do what we say. I can do this.
HEWITT: Senator Santorum, stay on that: any means necessary?
Is that what you meant to say?
Is that what's still on this table after this, what many of us believe is a catastrophic deal?
SANTORUM: As you know, Hugh, 12 years ago I authored the Iran Freedom Support Act, which put
sanctions on the Iran nuclear program as we came within four votes of passing a very strong version of
that. The four people who opposed on the floor: Joe Biden, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.
And we came four votes short.
But for 12 years, I have been laser-beam focused on the issue of Iran with a nuclear weapon. Why?
Because I understand who they are.
Yes, they are radical Islamists, that's true. But their particular version of it, which is an apocalyptic version,
which is a death cult, they believe in bringing about the end of the - end of the world. If you - if you poll
Iranians and Iraqis, Shiites in the region, more than two-thirds of them believe that the end of the world is
going to come within their lifetime.
Why? Because their regime preaches it. They believe in bringing about the end of times. That's their
theological goal and we are in the process of giving them a nuclear weapon to do just that.
That's why, on day one, I would say to the Iranian government, you open up all of these facilities for
inspection, you make them available to the U.N. and to the U.S., everything, we can go everywhere or else
we will take out those facilities.
And when people say, you're going to start a war TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
SANTORUM: - my response is, no, I'm going to stop a war because a nuclear Iran is the end.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
Senator Graham (APPLAUSE)
JINDAL: Jake, I'd like to answer that question.
TAPPER: We're bringing you in on this question as well.
TAPPER: Senator Graham, Vladimir Putin in recent days has sent an estimated six more tanks, four
helicopters and Russian ground troops into Syria to help support President Assad, an enemy of the United
States. The Russian military is also buzzing American planes and Naval vessels around the world.
Your front-runner, Donald Trump, says he can do details with President Putin, that the two of them will get
along, quote, "very well."
Why would your confrontational approach work better than Mr. Trump's negotiation?
GRAHAM: Do you think Putin would be in the Ukraine or Syria today if Ronald Reagan were president?
No.
This is what happens when you have a weak, unqualified commander- in-chief who doesn't understand the
role America plays in the world.
Why is it bad for you that Russia's helping Assad? He's the magnet for Sunni extremists. The Syrian
people are not going to accept him as their legitimate leader.
By Assad being helped by Russia, it means the war never ends. It means the next 9/11, which is most
likely to occur from an attack from Syria. It's more likely.
At the end of the day, if I'm president of the United States, I've told you what I'm going to do. There's
nobody left in Syria to train. We're going to get a regional army who doesn't like ISIL, who won't accept
Assad, because he's a puppet of Iran. We're going in the ground, and we're going to destroy the caliphate,
pull it up by roots, and we're going to hold the territory.
This is a slap in a face from Putin to Kerry and Obama. Assad must go. If he doesn't go, this war never
ends...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
GRAHAM: ... and if the war in Syria continues, it is coming here.
For God's sakes, let's get on with...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
GRAHAM: ... with fixing the problem in Syria.
TAPPER: Governor Jindal, how would President Jindal...
(APPLAUSE)
... get the Russians out of Syria?
JINDAL: Well, Jake, I want to answer that question. I want to go back to Iran. I didn't get a chance to
answer that as well.
Look, on Russia, across the world, dictators walk all over this president. He treats our friends like dirt. He
lets our enemies walk all over us.
The only group he's able to out-negotiate are the Senate Republicans. They never should've passed this
bad Corker bill. Instead of a two-thirds vote to reject - to approve the Iran deal, now it takes a two-thirds
vote to reject the Iran deal.
I want to ask Lindsey a question. Will the Senate Republicans - they still have time - are they willing to use
the nuclear option, meaning get rid of the filibusters, stop Iran from becoming a nuclear power?
Now is the time for the Senate Republicans to stand up and fight. We are tired of the establishment saying
there's nothing we can do.
(APPLAUSE)
All night tonight, we've heard Republicans say things like, "Well, if the Supreme Court's ruled, there's
nothing I can do about religious liberty," you know. "The president did this. There's nothing we can do
about it for two more years."
There is something we can do. We won the Senate. We won the House. What was the point of winning
those chambers if we're not going to do anything with them?
You're going back tonight. You still have time before the Thursday deadline. Will y'all use the nuclear
option to stop Iran from becoming a nuclear power?
(APPLAUSE)
GRAHAM: Bobby, you were in the Congress, and all I can tell you, to everybody here, if you want to repeal
Obamacare, get a new president. If you want to defund Planned Parenthood, elect a pro-life president,
because that's the only way.
If we pass the Cardin bill, Graham, Menendez, it would go to the president. He would veto it. 67 votes are
required to override the veto.
JINDAL: Lindsey...
GRAHAM: Wait a minute. Now, you asked me a question. So I don't want to take off the table the ability to
slow down Obama in his last 13 to 14 months, because I want 60 votes to stop what I think he's going to
do between now and January 2017. Five Republicans deflect - leave - we're in trouble.
So folks, the world really is the way it is. President Obama is president. The goal is to get him out of there
and pick somebody who would actually do something to repeal Obamacare, who would get you a better
agreement.
So Bobby, he would veto the bill, we don't have 67 votes, and you're giving away a defense against
Obama for the rest of his presidency.
No, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to tell you things I can't do. I'm not going to tell you by shutting
the government down, we're going to defund Obamacare as long as he's president. All that does is hurt us.
I am trying to lead this party to winning.
JINDAL: Lindsey, well, that's my frustration.
(APPLAUSE)
JINDAL: Listen to what you've heard. You - you basically heard a Senate Republican say, "We can't
defund Planned Parenthood, despite these barbaric videos."
GRAHAM: Are you going to shut the government down?
JINDAL: "We can't - we can't..."
GRAHAM: Are you going to shut the government...
JINDAL: "... we can't get rid of Obamacare" - Lindsey, let me answer this question now. I wish the Senate
Republicans had half the fight in them the Senate Democrats did.
Look, President Obama didn't give up on Obamacare when they lost the Senate election in
Massachusetts. I want my side to follow the Constitution. They broke the Constitution, they broke the law,
but they forced Obamacare down our throats, even when they didn't have 60 votes.
I wish Republicans in D.C. had half the fight of the Senate Democrats to get rid of Obamacare, to defund
Planned Parenthood.
(APPLAUSE)
If we can't defund Planned Parenthood now, if we can't stand for innocent human life after these barbaric
videos, it is time to be done with the Republican Party.
We defunded them in Louisiana. Let's defund them in D.C.
JINDAL: If we can't win...
TAPPER: (INAUDIBLE)...
JINDAL: - on that issue, there is no point for being cheaper Democrats, no point grabbing a second liberal
party. It is time to get rid of the Republican Party, start over with a new one that's at least conservative.
Give Harry Reid and Pelosi credit. At least they fight for what they believe in. I want senators and House
members in DC to fight for what we believe in, as well. It's time to have Republican...
TAPPER: Well...
JINDAL: - with a backbone in DC.
GRAHAM: Can I just say something?
(APPLAUSE)
GRAHAM: You know, Bobby, we're running to be president of the United States, the most important job in
the free world. With it comes a certain amount of honesty. I'm tired of telling people things they want to
hear that I know we can't do.
He is not going to sign a bill that would defund ObamaCare. If I am president of the United States, I
wouldn't put one penny in - in my budget for Planned Parenthood, not one penny. I'm as offended by these
videos as you are.
But the one thing I'm not going to do going into 2016 is shut the government down and tank our ability to
win. What you're saying and what Senator Cruz is saying, I am really sick of hearing, trying to get the
bottom...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
GRAHAM: - the Republican Party in a position...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator...
GRAHAM: - to win. That's what I'm trying to do. And that does matter to me (INAUDIBLE)...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator. The final question...
GRAHAM: It matters a lot.
TAPPER: The final questions for these four Republicans as the top contenders get ready to take their
places on the debate stage when we come back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Welcome back to the CNN Republican debates at the Reagan Library in beautiful Simi Valley,
California. We have time for one more question for the candidates.
Governor Pataki, let's start with you. You have all spent the last hour and a half debating each other. The
other 11 candidates are on their way to the stage.
What is the one thing as a candidate that you offer that no one at the next debate can offer?
PATAKI: I think there are two things, Jake. Two things that we need as Republicans.
First, we have to win the election. You're going to hear a lot of great ideas, I'm going to do this, I'm going to
do that. None of it matters unless you win the election.
And the second is, once you win, you have to be able to govern successfully. You've heard a lot of fighting
back and forth, you didn't get this done, you didn't get that done. That's the way Washington is today. You
have to have a leader, a president, who will actually get a conservative agenda through.
I'm running because I have done both those things, and I did them in one of the most liberal states in
America. I got elected three times in the state of New York. Twice by the largest pluralities ever for a
Republican. I ran as a Republican conservative.
If I get the nomination, I will be able to get broad support and win this election, and take the White House
back for our party. But more importantly, once I've won, I will put in place a sweeping conservative agenda.
I did that in New York.
Over $143 billion in tax cuts. More than the other 49 states combined. Taking one million people off welfare
and putting them into jobs, in a state where the Democrats control the state assembly.
TAPPER: Thank you, senator.
PATAKI: 103-47. I got them to support a conservative agenda. If I get elected president, I will make things
work in Washington.
TAPPER: Thank you. PATAKI: For the Republican party and for the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPER: Thank you, Governor.
Senator Santorum?
SANTORUM: I came to Washington in the most unlikely way. I defeated a 14-year incumbent, a 60 percent
Democratic district. I went to Washington thinking I was only going to be there for one term, and so I just
shook things up.
We sent the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee to jail. We ended 40 years, 40 years of
Democratic control of the Congress. And I led that fight with reforms, substantive reforms, welfare reform. I
led the charge - I wrote the bill when I was in the House. I led the charge in the United States Senate.
Partial-birth abortion - in fact, three pro-life bills, bipartisan pro-life bills. I mentioned the Iran bill. We also
passed one on Syria. Health savings accounts, as many of you know, I authored the original bill on health
savings accounts, pushed that through the Congress for private sector health care reform.
An outsider who came to Washington from the tough state of Pennsylvania, and we got conservative
things done. I made things happen in a town where things don't happen very much. Now, after 10 years of
seeing the mess, the retreat that we see in the Republican party in Washington, D.C., it's time to get
someone who is an outsider.