Professional Documents
Culture Documents
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Plaintiffs,
vs.
Defendants.
CV 07-2513-PHX-GMS
Phoenix, Arizona
April 22, 2015
8:36 a.m.
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Court Reporter:
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Gary Moll
401 W. Washington Street, SPC #38
Phoenix, Arizona 85003
(602) 322-7263
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A P P E A R A N C E S
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A P P E A R A N C E S
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ALSO PRESENT:
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I N D E X
Witness:
BRIAN SANDS
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Page
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MICHAEL TROWBRIDGE
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EMILY DOAN
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IEN
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320
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449
459
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463
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468
JOSEPH M. ARPAIO
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473
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E X H I B I T S
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No.
Description
295
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295
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295
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295
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295
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295
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43
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45
IEN
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295
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44
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Admitted
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47
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E X H I B I T S
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No.
Description
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360
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360
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360
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360
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71
475
476
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72
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76
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75
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Admitted
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360
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E X H I B I T S
No.
Description
77
360
82
360
90
10
93
360
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94
360
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360
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96
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97
360
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360
360
360
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8
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99
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115
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100
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Admitted
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133
360
394
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E X H I B I T S
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8
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360
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360
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360
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202C
505
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383
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386
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388
214
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215
466
486
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Admitted
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Description
202B
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No.
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P R O C E E D I N G S
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THE COURT:
Please be seated.
08:36:26
MR. YOUNG:
THE COURT:
Yes.
Yes.
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THE COURT:
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MR. YOUNG:
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MR. YOUNG:
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Mr. Walker and Mr. Como joined the discussion, and I think that
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All right.
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following:
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But as I
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THE COURT:
MR. COMO:
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08:36:57
Exhibits 1, 29, 34, 35, 36, 37, maybe 38, 42, 43,
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08:36:41
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08:37:28
Okay.
Your Honor.
THE COURT:
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MR. YOUNG:
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08:37:47
THE COURT:
All right.
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MR. COMO:
MR. WALKER:
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
All right.
read these so you can get them down, and tell me if I need to
slow down -- 1, 29, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 43, 44, 45, 47, and 49
are admitted.
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THE COURT:
All right.
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so today --
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MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
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08:39:10
MS. IAFRATE:
prepared.
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THE COURT:
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MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
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deposition?
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08:38:10
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08:38:02
All right.
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we'll finish with Chief Sands this morning, and then we will go
you've indicated.
MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
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All right.
Thank you.
08:40:10
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Mr. Sousa?
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MS. WANG:
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our direct --
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THE COURT:
MS. WANG:
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08:39:51
He was not a
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08:39:39
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THE COURT:
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MS. WANG:
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Yes.
-- I would estimate one and a half hours.
All right.
For Lieutenant Jakowinicz, I'd estimate one
08:40:33
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that now.
08:40:54
THE COURT:
MS. WANG:
All right.
We have
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THE COURT:
Okay.
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MS. IAFRATE:
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All right.
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THE COURT:
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Sousa's cross?
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THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
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An hour.
08:41:57
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Any estimates on
I am so
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MS. IAFRATE:
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08:41:34
right.
Jakowinicz.
Jakowinicz, with a V?
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MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
Half hour.
Trowbridge?
15 minutes.
apparently?
I do.
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MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
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MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
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MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
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MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
So is it going to be long?
Sheriff Arpaio?
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MR. WALKER:
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If I have
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THE COURT:
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MR. WALKER:
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08:43:07
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08:42:36
No.
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08:43:25
THE COURT:
Mr. Como?
MR. COMO:
All right.
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Thank you.
approximately 45 minutes.
THE COURT:
MR. COMO:
All right.
08:43:34
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and Chief Sheridan, I would say half an hour or less for each
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of those witnesses.
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so...
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THE COURT:
All right.
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Looks to me
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MR. McDONALD:
Right.
THE COURT:
a large law firm and maybe you can have somebody cover.
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MR. McDONALD:
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THE COURT:
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Honor.
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MR. COMO:
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THE COURT:
MR. COMO:
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08:45:42
All right.
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THE COURT:
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THE COURT:
Right.
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MR. COMO:
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grounds.
injunction.
THE COURT:
MR. COMO:
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Motion's overruled.
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THE COURT:
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MR. COMO:
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record --
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MR. COMO:
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THE COURT:
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MR. SCHWAB:
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Arpaio.
THE COURT:
MR. SCHWAB:
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08:47:16
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THE COURT:
08:47:03
You have.
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08:47:35
All right.
Yesterday after the discussion of
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THE COURT:
MR. SCHWAB:
THE COURT:
table?
reread it again.
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MR. SCHWAB:
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08:47:55
bar so I don't --
08:48:14
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THE COURT:
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That's fine.
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full record.
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MR. COMO:
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MR. COMO:
argument.
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to, Your Honor, is the basis for the argument is a res judicata
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THE COURT:
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08:48:30
They
Their
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THE COURT:
I'm going to
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It does seem to me to be
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injunction, I'm not sure that even I was aware of the vast
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order, so I'm not sure where your res judicata argument would
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come in.
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Mr. Walker.
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
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08:50:15
judge's ruling.
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You bet.
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MR. COMO:
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hear it.
THE COURT:
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MR. McDONALD:
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THE COURT:
MR. McDONALD:
Sure.
withdrawal.
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information that Mr. Liddy may know that would help the Court
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in its findings, and I would simply ask that the Court not
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THE COURT:
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Apparently
And this is
08:51:52
not really about your request, Mr. Liddy, but I will read it,
and I read it -- but coming to work this morning I was a
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told you I'd be here by 8:30 and I had to review some matters.
FR
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I told the police I'd come back and fill out a witness
statement.
here.
make 9 o'clock.
review your motion, Mr. Liddy, but let me just ask you:
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relationship with both the sheriff and the County that I can
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THE COURT:
08:53:19
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All right.
MR. LIDDY:
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THE COURT:
Well --
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MR. LIDDY:
FR
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MR. LIDDY:
Is
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disclosing --
THE COURT:
it.
disclose it.
want to do that.
court?
MR. LIDDY:
I don't
Are you
THE COURT:
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MR. LIDDY:
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counsel.
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THE COURT:
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Other counsel.
08:54:22
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Chief Sands?
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MR. LIDDY:
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THE COURT:
All right.
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08:54:54
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Are you
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MR. LIDDY:
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. WALKER:
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THE COURT:
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THE COURT:
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MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
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All right.
All right.
MS. IAFRATE:
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All right.
MR. LIDDY:
THE COURT:
All right.
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MR. LIDDY:
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08:56:14
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Ms. Iafrate?
THE COURT:
08:56:05
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THE COURT:
you, hold your thought, but I want to get an idea what the
MR. LIDDY:
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THE COURT:
Okay.
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None at all.
08:57:32
Okay.
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THE COURT:
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MR. WALKER:
MR. WALKER:
(Indiscernible.)
THE COURT:
You'll need to --
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THE COURT:
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MR. LIDDY:
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MR. WALKER:
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Okay.
08:57:39
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08:57:02
I was not.
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MR. LIDDY:
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. LIDDY:
08:58:12
10
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MR. LIDDY:
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THE COURT:
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MR. LIDDY:
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All right.
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whatever you want to say on the record, but I think what I like
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received from them regarding this case, you can help both
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Ms. Iafrate and Mr. Walker with all the facts, with all the
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evidence, with all the history, and with everything else, and
FR
08:58:49
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08:58:33
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08:59:10
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MR. LIDDY:
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. WALKER:
MS. IAFRATE:
Honor.
THE COURT:
08:59:20
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MS. IAFRATE:
Yes, I understand.
Okay?
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representing him.
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
Are you
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08:59:59
I mean,
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08:59:48
not prepared?
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THE COURT:
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I have two
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MS. IAFRATE:
09:00:12
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
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I do not.
be fully prepared?
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
Well --
MR. LIDDY:
A day.
09:00:19
10
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THE COURT:
09:00:33
going to give you two hours to do it, and -- and if you can't
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MS. IAFRATE:
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THE COURT:
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But we're
Okay?
Okay.
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All right.
09:00:52
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positions.
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regarding the facts and the legal preparation and the legal
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management.
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THE COURT:
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MR. LIDDY:
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Mr. Liddy?
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MR. LIDDY:
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County, as "direction."
supervisors.
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Thank you.
TH
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All right.
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else?
DS
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09:02:51
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
IEN
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09:02:27
OF
THE COURT:
09:02:16
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09:02:00
Lieutenant Jakowinicz.
Okay.
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Chief Sands.
FR
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09:03:04
court at 11 o'clock.
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All right?
So we will resume
THE CLERK:
(Recess taken.)
THE CLERK:
THE COURT:
Please be seated.
session.
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11:01:03
Take the
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Court is now in
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positions.
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withdraw.
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the lawyer, and I understand why that may pose a problem for
you.
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County.
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11:03:14
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ways with the jural entity argument and all that stuff.
However, just before we went to break Mr. Walker said
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me, as I look at it, as you have outlined the conflict and the
And it seems to
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advocate all of the facts and all of the law that pertains to
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sheriff's interests.
TH
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DS
OF
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FR
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11:05:07
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I understand.
two hours, and you'll also have the lunch break, which we're
11:05:56
MR. LIDDY:
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. WALKER:
that I was --
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THE COURT:
12
EF
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10
Mr. Walker.
MR. WALKER:
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THE COURT:
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MR. WALKER:
Okay.
TH
13
Yes.
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assisting both the County and Ms. Iafrate with his knowledge of
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the history of the case, and the issues, and the facts in the
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case.
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THE COURT:
I understand.
And so I understand,
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Mr. Liddy, while you may or may not -- I mean, it's up to you,
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FR
11:06:37
to do that.
IEN
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11:06:12
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you can, and none of the parties object, then I'm going to
it.
EF
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10
11
MR. LIDDY:
one point that I never said that I would be -- that I was able
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I said I would be
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THE COURT:
Okay.
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MR. LIDDY:
17
11:07:37
OF
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DS
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THE COURT:
MR. LIDDY:
-- client.
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THE COURT:
That's fine.
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MR. LIDDY:
IEN
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11:07:20
12
21
11:07:08
FR
25
11:07:53
11:08:02
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real.
have no discretion.
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. LIDDY:
THE COURT:
All right.
11:08:16
I respect that.
Then we
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MR. LIDDY:
11
my honor.
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THE COURT:
EF
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All right.
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basis.
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in on that.
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MR. LIDDY:
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THE COURT:
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MR. YOUNG:
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Your Honor.
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THE COURT:
25
Ms. Iafrate.
FR
11:08:48
IEN
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of Chief Sands.
DS
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11:08:36
OF
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11:08:25
Welcome.
11:09:00
MS. IAFRATE:
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matters.
is another one that I was not prepared for, so Mr. Liddy and I
THE COURT:
Is that correct?
Lieutenant Jakowinicz
EF
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MS. WANG:
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11:09:34
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TH
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That's fine.
OF
THE COURT:
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can, but even he has not asked not to be here all day on
DS
Friday.
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FR
25
11:10:01
IEN
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11:09:47
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11:09:16
But I do
11:10:16
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All right.
MS. IAFRATE:
information.
11:10:32
10
MR. COMO:
11
THE COURT:
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That's fair.
EF
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THE COURT:
Sure.
BRIAN SANDS,
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TH
13
CROSS-EXAMINATION
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BY MR. COMO:
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
OF
IEN
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A.
No.
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Q.
FR
11:10:54
DS
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11:10:43
11:11:00
11:11:10
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at another job?
A.
Q.
County?
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Q.
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11:11:20
10
A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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enforcement in 2011.
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time?
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A.
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11:11:53
One was
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Q.
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A.
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FR
11:12:23
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11:11:35
Well, it changed.
11:12:43
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Q.
A.
Chief Chagolla.
Q.
A.
Director.
Q.
Okay.
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reporting to?
A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
Primarily, yes.
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Q.
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A.
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building.
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Q.
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11:13:55
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Q.
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A.
FR
11:13:37
OF
DS
A.
11:13:14
Did the sworn deputies that you just mentioned, did they
IEN
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11:13:06
No, sir.
11:14:11
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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Mainly in meetings.
Q.
Okay.
A.
No.
Q.
I'd like to switch gears now and talk a little bit about
EF
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11
A.
Correct.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Training division.
15
Q.
Division.
TH
10
16
Okay.
18
A.
19
Q.
20
A.
DS
OF
back in 2011-2012?
also.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
11:15:02
IEN
22
11:14:38
11:14:45
17
21
11:14:25
11:15:21
BO
W
. CO
M
type of thing.
Q.
thing?
A.
Q.
A.
EF
OG
10
11
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
over a hundred.
19
Q.
20
that were put together and final -- and made final by the
TH
OF
training division?
A.
No, sir.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
11:16:22
IEN
22
11:16:07
DS
21
11:15:48
Is there any way that you could have physically done that
11:16:55
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
training materials that were being put together for the Court's
general process of how -- let's say there was a new law passed,
how that information would be put out to the deputies and the
A.
EF
OG
10
was needed, they oftentimes would contact the staff that worked
11
12
Q.
13
14
15
A.
16
17
18
Q.
19
20
A.
Q.
Okay.
TH
11:18:27
requirements?
23
A.
24
Q.
25
FR
11:18:03
OF
IEN
22
11:17:41
DS
21
11:17:16
11:18:39
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Typically, yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
A.
need for firearms training that involves more tasking that can
EF
OG
However,
10
11
12
13
14
would come to me and I would try to get them -- get them the
15
16
Q.
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
20
11:19:50
OF
TH
A.
11:20:03
Typically, yes.
23
Q.
24
25
FR
11:19:26
IEN
22
And
DS
21
11:18:55
Okay.
All right.
11:20:23
MR. COMO:
BO
W
. CO
M
BY MR. COMO:
Q.
evidence.
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
11:20:50
9
10
EF
OG
11
A.
Yes, sir.
12
Q.
13
11:21:16
15
A.
No, I don't.
16
Q.
17
18
19
at that time?
20
A.
Correct.
Q.
OF
And
23
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
11:21:40
IEN
22
11:21:26
DS
21
TH
14
11:21:58
BO
W
. CO
M
court order.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
Yes.
Q.
EF
OG
10
11
13
A.
14
Q.
15
about E learning.
16
17
A.
18
Q.
All right.
19
20
OF
11:22:54
A.
11:23:11
Correct.
23
Q.
24
25
FR
11:22:30
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
12
11:22:14
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
EF
OG
Okay.
10
A.
11
12
13
Q.
Okay.
14
TH
16
2014 about these events, and your -- the testimony that you
17
gave yesterday about the conversations you had with the sheriff
18
19
20
A.
Correct.
Q.
11:24:25
OF
DS
11:24:43
IEN
22
11:24:08
15
21
11:23:53
monitor?
24
A.
No.
25
Q.
FR
23
11:24:50
BO
W
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M
the copies.
A.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
EF
OG
11:25:22
10
11
12
together?
13
A.
14
form.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
18
19
paragraph that he's had the many conversations that he's had,
20
23
TH
I'm sorry.
FR
11:26:09
24
25
11:25:51
OF
IEN
22
11:25:32
DS
21
The draft --
A.
I'm sorry.
The question --
11:26:38
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
A.
Q.
EF
OG
10
11
A.
12
need for a clear understanding for the staff about the order.
13
Q.
14
legal ruling?
15
A.
16
Q.
The next thing on this -- and we're now on the first page
17
of Exhibit 189.
18
TH
11:27:26
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
IEN
22
DS
21
11:27:06
OF
19
20
11:26:50
Q.
24
25
FR
23
11:27:45
11:27:57
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
transferred.
Q.
I can only speculate that was at the time that he was being
EF
OG
All right.
10
12
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
16
deputies?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
time?
20
A.
No.
Q.
OF
11:28:35
11:28:44
DS
23
24
A.
No, sir.
25
Q.
FR
11:28:18
IEN
22
TH
11
21
11:28:04
11:29:06
into evidence.
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
11:29:44
Correct.
Q.
EF
OG
10
right?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
And it was only after that that they anticipated having you
13
14
15
A.
Correct.
16
Q.
Again, did you ever hear back from Mr. Casey or any other
17
18
A.
19
Q.
20
things?
TH
OF
11:30:39
A.
He was excellent.
Q.
IEN
22
11:30:22
DS
21
11:30:04
work ethic?
24
A.
25
FR
23
11:30:50
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
do it?
A.
No.
Q.
Did you find that you could rely on him to follow through
A.
11:31:16
EF
OG
Yes.
10
11
Q.
12
13
14
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
And did you believe that Lieutenant Sousa would carry out
17
18
A.
19
Q.
20
problem.
TH
OF
11:31:46
A.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
11:32:03
training scenarios?
IEN
22
DS
21
11:31:30
11:32:15
BO
W
. CO
M
done.
Q.
A.
Oh, yes.
Q.
Did you ever -- was it ever your intent to not comply with
A.
No.
Q.
materials?
Had you done that with respect to other issues that had
EF
OG
Yes.
A.
No, sir.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
Q.
Do you know why the E learning program that was being put
15
16
A.
No, I do not.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
No.
20
Q.
A.
OF
11:32:59
11:33:11
23
Q.
24
25
Sheriff's Office?
FR
11:32:40
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
11:32:26
11:33:37
A.
I do.
MR. COMO:
Chief.
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
BO
W
. CO
M
Mr. Walker.
Thank you,
11:33:48
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. IAFRATE:
Q.
EF
OG
case, correct?
11
A.
Correct.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
Yes.
Q.
OF
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
23
24
FR
25
11:34:20
11:34:29
Okay?
That appears
11:34:54
"Okay.
"No.
Correct?
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
11:35:24
EF
OG
"Okay."
"--
But to
10
11
12
13
14
A.
15
at the time, and that could mean going to a patrol unit itself.
16
17
18
Gila Bend.
19
Q.
20
TH
OF
Do you have
11:36:35
an understanding -A.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
11:36:08
IEN
22
DS
21
11:35:48
Correct.
11:36:50
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
long, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
You didn't know that back when you received the preliminary
A.
again, please.
Q.
EF
OG
Okay.
Casey, correct?
11
A.
Correct.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
-- conversation, correct?
20
A.
Correct.
Q.
11:37:34
DS
OF
I think it was.
23
24
25
A.
FR
11:37:25
11:37:43
IEN
22
TH
10
21
11:37:06
Right.
11:37:55
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
Was your conversation with Tim Casey the same day that the
A.
Q.
EF
OG
But now that you're here today, you understand that any
10
A.
11
Q.
12
13
Yes.
15
Q.
16
Casey, correct?
17
A.
Correct.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
preliminary injunction.
DS
A.
IEN
Q.
23
Q.
24
concerned?
25
A.
FR
11:39:05
OF
TH
A.
22
11:38:35
14
21
11:38:10
11:39:20
11:39:30
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
it.
Q.
A.
Q.
preliminary injunction?
A.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
was told to come and brief me on it, or there were other issues
13
14
Q.
15
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
Q.
23
24
FR
25
EF
OG
11:39:48
11:40:01
TH
OF
11:40:23
When
11:40:56
you go third, you kind of have to pick up the pieces as you go,
so I apologize.
IEN
22
Yes.
DS
21
11:41:11
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
EF
OG
11:41:28
10
A.
11
Q.
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
16
phase.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
witness.
TH
OF
11:42:23
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
FR
11:42:08
IEN
22
Q.
11:41:41
How about during the trial, did you sit at counsel table or
DS
21
11:42:45
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
the trial?
A.
Q.
Are you aware that Chief Deputy Sheridan did not attend the
EF
OG
trial?
11
A.
12
Q.
Are you aware that Chief Trombi did not attend the trial?
13
A.
14
Q.
15
TH
10
16
Yes.
18
Q.
19
DS
A.
Yes.
Q.
IEN
22
11:43:59
OF
A.
21
11:43:21
17
20
11:42:58
A.
No.
24
Q.
25
FR
23
11:44:10
11:44:20
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
No.
Q.
189?
A.
Either one.
Q.
Okay.
EF
OG
them?
11
A.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
TH
10
Okay.
THE COURT:
17
OF
16
18
THE WITNESS:
19
BY MS. IAFRATE:
20
Q.
11:45:48
23
A.
No.
24
Q.
25
was it?
FR
11:45:35
IEN
22
11:45:20
DS
21
11:44:49
11:46:00
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
No.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
There was some discussion both on direct and also with your
EF
OG
Yes.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
15
for what's the chain of command for HSU, when you first started
16
17
A.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
Yes.
Q.
11:47:08
OF
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
FR
11:46:41
11:47:27
position, correct?
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
11:46:17
11:47:49
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
No.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
testified regarding the fact that you and Chief Trombi both
supervised HSU.
A.
say yes.
EF
OG
10
Q.
11
12
A.
Correct.
13
Q.
And there were times where you directly gave chief -- or,
14
15
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
18
19
20
A.
Q.
TH
23
A.
Correct.
24
Q.
Chief Sands, you wrote a book after you left MCSO, correct?
25
A.
Yes.
FR
11:48:51
OF
Yes.
11:48:34
11:49:13
IEN
22
DS
21
11:48:11
11:49:55
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
I did.
Q.
Did you also say that you believed that Sheriff Arpaio was
disconnected?
A.
I did, yes.
Q.
EF
OG
11:50:17
11
A.
12
Q.
13
A.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
Q.
20
off?
A.
OF
11:50:52
11:51:11
23
24
Q.
25
FR
11:50:32
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Q.
individuals, correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
EF
OG
11
A.
12
Q.
13
correct?
14
A.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
I don't know.
18
Q.
19
Tim Casey, did you yourself talk to any deputies that it would
20
impact?
Q.
23
24
A.
25
process?
FR
11:52:39
11:52:55
OF
A.
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
11:52:20
11:53:41
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
Developing a process.
A.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Correct.
EF
OG
11:54:20
10
MS. IAFRATE:
11
THE COURT:
12
Mr. Young.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
13
BY MR. YOUNG:
14
Q.
15
16
17
TH
OF
11:55:04
DS
23
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Okay.
FR
11:55:31
having to drive halfway across the state and you had a problem
IEN
22
It's page 76
19
21
18
20
11:54:39
11:55:43
BO
W
. CO
M
11:56:13
A.
Yes.
Q.
And you said that once the 287(g) authority was taken away
in 2009 you thought that that was a problem, to take that much
EF
OG
11
A.
12
Q.
13
describe that you had with the sheriff about this issue you had
14
15
16
A.
Correct.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
21
you ever discuss with anyone the issue of what should be done
23
24
FR
25
11:57:12
IEN
22
11:56:45
DS
20
11:56:28
OF
19
TH
10
"I had a
11:57:36
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
EF
OG
11:57:46
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
14
TH
10
15
"Question:
16
All right.
OF
18
20
DS
19
23
24
FR
25
11:58:39
should be released.
"Question:
IEN
22
11:58:22
17
21
11:58:01
country?
"Answer:
11:58:56
BO
W
. CO
M
"Question:
country legally?
"Answer:
"Question:
Correct.
Okay.
EF
OG
10
"Question:
11
"Answer:
12
Now, that was the discussion that you had with the
14
A.
Correct.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
17
18
A.
19
Q.
During this discussion that you had with the sheriff after
20
the injunction, the one that we were just discussing, did the
TH
DS
23
24
FR
25
11:59:49
OF
12:00:11
IEN
22
11:59:35
Correct."
13
21
11:59:13
speculation.
THE COURT:
12:00:26
THE WITNESS:
BO
W
. CO
M
exactly.
BY MR. YOUNG:
Q.
A.
No.
MS. IAFRATE:
EF
OG
speculation.
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. YOUNG:
12
THE WITNESS:
13
THE COURT:
14
MR. COMO:
Overruled.
12:00:47
Mr. Como.
TH
15
follow-up questions.
16
18
Q.
19
20
OF
BY MR. COMO:
DS
Chief, I'd just like to focus you back to the very end of
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
A.
FR
12:01:13
IEN
22
12:00:57
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
17
21
12:00:40
12:01:21
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
you'd get staff rolling, get the ball rolling, and then let
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Correct.
MR. COMO:
10
you.
THE COURT:
12
Mr. Walker.
13
MR. WALKER:
14
THE COURT:
15
Thank
Sure.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
16
BY MR. WALKER:
17
Q.
18
19
20
OF
23
A.
Yes, I do.
24
Q.
25
A.
Those disputes?
FR
12:02:20
IEN
22
12:02:04
DS
21
12:01:54
Thank you.
TH
11
12:01:47
EF
OG
In other words,
12:02:32
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
Yes.
A.
I believe.
anything.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
12
board of supervisors?
13
A.
12:02:50
EF
OG
14
TH
16
was some issue with Supervisor Wilcox, but I'm not really sure.
17
18
Q.
19
20
A.
Q.
A.
Do you know whether there were any lawsuits that came out
12:03:45
DS
IEN
22
23
MR. WALKER:
24
THE COURT:
FR
25
12:03:20
OF
15
21
12:03:06
Ms. Iafrate.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
12:04:01
BO
W
. CO
M
BY MS. IAFRATE:
Q.
preliminary injunction.
12:04:15
A.
Yes.
Q.
And did you tell any of the deputies regarding your belief
Objection, form.
EF
OG
9
10
THE WITNESS:
11
THE COURT:
12
THE WITNESS:
13
THE COURT:
I rule on it.
Okay?
Wait.
I'm sorry.
15
16
MR. COMO:
17
OF
THE COURT:
the question?
20
understood it.
DS
19
All right.
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
IEN
22
12:04:41
that's all.
18
21
12:04:32
TH
14
I don't --
Okay.
BY MS. IAFRATE:
24
Q.
25
members of the HSU believed that they could hold suspects until
FR
23
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
Patrol?
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Did you ever tell anyone at HSU that that violated the
11
preliminary injunction?
12
A.
EF
OG
MS. IAFRATE:
14
THE COURT:
15
TH
Okay.
17
to go till 1:00, take the lunch break between 1:00 and 2:00.
18
19
MS. WANG:
DS
Jakowinicz.
THE COURT:
12:06:12
Yes.
MS. IAFRATE:
IEN
22
12:05:51
OF
16
21
12:05:36
13
20
12:05:24
23
24
FR
25
THE COURT:
Please check.
12:06:22
MS. IAFRATE:
(Pause in proceedings.)
MS. IAFRATE:
Thanks.
BO
W
. CO
M
My apologies.
He is not here.
I have
because --
12:07:12
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
11
THE CLERK:
12
THE COURT:
13
EF
OG
10
Yes.
Thank you.
14
TH
MR. COMO:
15
No apology necessary.
17
THE CLERK:
THE COURT:
Please be seated.
OF
16
18
23
24
25
all Bates stamping and that they couldn't get access through
FR
13:03:55
IEN
22
Court is now in
DS
21
12:08:04
session.
19
20
12:07:21
BO
W
. CO
M
you.
But what I told them to do, and if you have any objection
pages it is, give them a copy, and then you can follow up with
this week.
EF
OG
10
MS. IAFRATE:
11
12
13
problem.
14
Right.
TH
THE COURT:
16
you, and I realize you're busy this week, but we really need to
17
18
OF
19
20
MS. IAFRATE:
13:05:01
DS
IEN
22
13:04:45
As
15
21
13:04:33
We do.
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. YOUNG:
23
on exhibits.
24
FR
25
13:05:17
THE COURT:
That it?
MR. YOUNG:
BO
W
. CO
M
objection --
THE COURT:
MR. YOUNG:
Yes.
THE COURT:
morning?
EF
OG
10
11
still on the record for being a little brusque with him this
12
morning.
13
14
and you --
It wasn't merited.
TH
MR. COMO:
16
THE COURT:
17
MR. YOUNG:
DS
23
24
FR
25
56, 59, 76, 77, 82, 90, 93 through 100, and 115.
THE COURT:
All right.
13:06:25
Mr. Young?
IEN
22
13:06:12
19
21
OF
18
13:05:56
15
20
13:05:49
MR. YOUNG:
All right.
Thank you.
13:06:47
BO
W
. CO
M
THE COURT:
56, 59, 76, 77, 82, 90, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, and
115.
EF
OG
10
11
13
MR. SEGURA:
14
THE COURT:
forward.
16
THE CLERK:
17
OF
THE WITNESS:
19
B-r-i-a-n,
J-a-k-o-w-i-n-i-c-z.
DS
THE CLERK:
23
All right.
THE COURT:
Please.
BRIAN JAMES JAKOWINICZ,
24
25
FR
13:08:08
IEN
22
All right.
18
21
13:07:29
TH
15
Jakowinicz.
Jakowinicz.
12
20
13:07:04
13:08:36
BO
W
. CO
M
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Jakowinicz.
Q.
Thank you.
EF
OG
10
A.
1998.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
A.
Yes, sir.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
A.
Yes, sir.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
17
some time.
TH
13:09:01
A.
Yes, sir.
20
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
IEN
DS
19
22
13:08:52
OF
18
21
13:08:43
correct?
24
A.
Yes, sir.
25
Q.
And after you became lieutenant you did some time with the
FR
23
13:09:11
13:09:21
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Q.
Okay.
correct?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
And then after a few years of doing that you were actually
EF
OG
10
A.
Yes, sir.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
Yes, sir.
18
Q.
And you were there for -- and then you went back to the
19
20
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
TH
OF
13:10:14
23
A.
Yes, sir.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
A.
April 2012.
FR
13:09:55
IEN
22
13:09:45
DS
21
13:09:35
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
with HSU?
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
There was the human smuggling units, there was two units,
Q.
A.
Three supervisors.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
Yes, sir.
12
Q.
13
A.
14
15
Q.
16
Investigations Division?
17
A.
Yes, sir.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
HSU, right?
20
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
TH
OF
13:11:20
23
Q.
24
A.
25
FR
13:11:04
IEN
22
13:11:34
DS
21
13:10:45
EF
OG
Okay.
All I know is
13:11:47
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
controversial?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
EF
OG
HSU, right?
11
A.
Yes, sir.
12
Q.
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
18
A.
19
Q.
20
A.
Q.
And a few days later you called Chief Trombi back, right?
A.
Yes, sir.
13:12:22
OF
23
Q.
24
A.
Yes, sir.
25
Q.
Okay.
FR
13:12:14
DS
IEN
22
TH
10
21
13:11:56
13:12:39
13:12:51
BO
W
. CO
M
MR. WALKER:
It seems to me
THE COURT:
All right.
13:13:14
THE COURT:
Okay.
14
MR. WALKER:
EF
OG
15
THE COURT:
All right.
10
MR. WALKER:
11
THE COURT:
12
practice.
13
Form.
Okay.
13:13:26
I'll give
TH
Leading.
16
17
18
21
THE COURT:
23
Okay?
Ms. Iafrate.
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
24
25
FR
13:13:59
Honor.
IEN
22
MR. SEGURA:
DS
20
OF
19
13:13:43
13:14:13
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
BO
W
. CO
M
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
And what did Chief Trombi tell you about your concerns?
A.
that that wasn't going to be a concern, that that had all been
worked out.
things had slowed down and it's a good time to learn what's
EF
OG
10
Q.
11
12
A.
Yes, sir.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
to learn about this case because Chief Trombi told you that it
15
16
A.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
TH
OF
13:15:05
I didn't
13:15:32
time.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
13:14:50
And then once you got to HSU, you didn't take steps
IEN
22
And so obviously you then told Chief Trombi that you would
DS
21
13:14:29
Yes, sir.
13:15:47
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
Lieutenant Sousa that there was an order, and that order was
A.
"order" was used, but there was some sort of -- some of the, I
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
10
Q.
11
12
13
units, right?
14
15
16
A.
Yes, sir.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
19
A.
Yes, sir.
20
Q.
A.
EF
OG
13:16:33
TH
OF
23
Q.
24
vehicle?
25
A.
FR
13:16:18
13:17:04
IEN
22
Right, yeah.
DS
21
Yes, sir.
13:17:19
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
Overruled.
EF
OG
10
THE WITNESS:
I'm sorry.
11
question?
12
BY MR. SEGURA:
13
Q.
14
15
16
17
A.
Yes, sir.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
TH
OF
13:18:25
23
24
A.
Yes, sir.
25
Q.
FR
13:18:07
IEN
22
13:17:53
DS
21
Sure.
13:17:39
13:18:40
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
MS. IAFRATE:
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
Okay.
EF
OG
9
10
11
THE WITNESS:
12
THE COURT:
13
THE WITNESS:
All right.
15
Q.
16
17
18
A.
Yes, sir.
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
TH
BY MR. SEGURA:
DS
13:19:33
to hold someone and there was suspicion that they were present
23
24
25
A.
FR
13:19:13
OF
IEN
22
13:19:05
Yes, sir.
14
21
13:18:57
Yes, sir.
13:19:57
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
though.
Q.
Correct.
EF
OG
Fair enough.
10
And that policy was in effect the entire time you were
11
at HSU, right?
12
A.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
15
A.
16
them.
17
essentially.
18
Q.
19
21
TH
OF
MR. COMO:
my continuing objection.
THE COURT:
This is subject to
13:21:05
Thank you.
Overruled.
23
BY MR. SEGURA:
24
Q.
25
FR
13:20:41
IEN
22
13:20:22
DS
20
13:20:11
BO
W
. CO
M
undocumented, correct?
A.
Q.
A.
sir.
Q.
Yes, sir.
They
EF
OG
10
11
12
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
A.
Yes, sir.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
Q.
Okay.
TH
13:22:33
OF
23
"Question:
24
25
respond?"
FR
13:22:42
IEN
22
13:22:15
DS
21
13:21:46
Did you
13:23:05
"THE WITNESS:
sheriff.
BO
W
. CO
M
I'm the
Thank you.
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
10
Q.
And after the sheriff gave you this direction, what did you
11
say?
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
Correct.
15
Q.
And knowing what you know now, that direction was contrary
16
17
A.
Yes, sir.
18
Q.
21
EF
OG
TH
Yes, sir.
Q.
IEN
22
13:23:27
13:23:49
DS
20
OF
19
13:23:20
24
developed?
25
A.
FR
23
13:24:10
13:24:23
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
Okay.
A.
-- showed it to me.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
MR. SEGURA:
Okay.
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
EF
OG
e-mail.
11
A.
12
Q.
13
A.
Page 1 of 5?
14
Q.
Yes.
15
A.
Okay.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
Yes, sir.
19
Q.
20
A.
Q.
A.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
13:25:05
13:25:16
OF
DS
IEN
22
TH
10
21
13:24:34
13:25:33
I don't.
13:25:53
Q.
training scenarios?
shortly after?
A.
Q.
BO
W
. CO
M
13:26:11
MR. SEGURA:
Pull up Exhibit --
BY MR. SEGURA:
EF
OG
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
Thank you.
13
THE CLERK:
14
THE WITNESS:
TH
Thank you.
15
BY MR. SEGURA:
16
Q.
17
18
19
A.
Yes, sir.
20
Q.
OF
A.
23
Q.
All right.
24
A.
Yes, sir.
25
Q.
Okay.
FR
13:27:01
started at HSU?
IEN
22
13:26:47
And if I could you turn, it's the first page after -- after
DS
21
13:26:26
13:27:15
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
A.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
believe.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Yes, sir.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
Q.
A.
Q.
EF
OG
TH
13:28:39
OF
23
A.
Yes, sir.
24
Q.
25
A.
FR
13:28:23
IEN
22
13:27:49
DS
21
13:29:02
13:29:18
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
Okay.
A.
Q.
Okay.
MS. IAFRATE:
MR. SEGURA:
Honor.
9
10
EF
OG
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
11
BY MR. SEGURA:
12
Q.
13
14
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
And did Chief Trombi also commend your work while you were
17
at HSU?
18
A.
Yes, sir.
19
Q.
And you also took that as approval of the work that your
20
TH
Yes, sir.
Q.
In fact, when you were brought on, Chief Trombi told you
23
24
A.
Yes, sir.
25
Q.
FR
13:30:18
OF
A.
IEN
22
13:30:01
DS
21
13:29:39
13:30:38
Correct, sir.
13:30:51
BO
W
. CO
M
Chief Trombi told you that in fact, you should not change
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
That things were like that for a reason, like they were for
a reason?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
Q.
14
correct?
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
17
event?
18
A.
19
Q.
20
A.
EF
OG
TH
OF
13:31:40
13:31:48
23
the narrative.
24
25
Q.
FR
13:31:15
IEN
22
DS
21
13:31:05
13:32:11
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Not generally.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
EF
OG
10
11
12
A.
13
yes.
14
Q.
15
there were people who were transferred to ICE who could not be
16
17
A.
18
19
Q.
20
Yes, sir.
13:33:17
23
Q.
Okay.
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
13:32:57
OF
Yeah.
TH
Okay.
IEN
22
A.
13:32:44
DS
21
13:32:30
13:33:29
BO
W
. CO
M
e-mail to anyone?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
don't know them all off the top of my head, but it was a lot of
people.
Q.
Chief Sands?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Chief Trombi?
10
A.
Yes, sir.
11
Q.
12
officers at MCSO?
13
A.
14
EF
OG
Yes, sir.
13:33:53
TH
(Pause in proceedings.)
15
BY MR. SEGURA:
16
Q.
17
18
19
A.
Yes, sir.
20
Q.
And those have been compiled from the date of the Court's
OF
A.
23
24
25
FR
13:34:35
IEN
22
13:34:26
DS
21
13:33:48
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
yet.
Okay.
THE CLERK:
THE WITNESS:
MR. SEGURA:
13:35:33
11
MR. SEGURA:
12
EF
OG
10
It's a
To all counsel?
13
THE COURT:
14
MS. IAFRATE:
15
THE COURT:
16
THE COURT:
Any objection?
19
OF
20
MS. IAFRATE:
MR. COMO:
DS
THE COURT:
Yeah.
Any objection?
THE COURT:
I can't do it in one
13:36:39
23
MS. IAFRATE:
24
THE COURT:
25
MS. IAFRATE:
FR
word.
IEN
22
13:36:03
it, please?
18
21
TH
17
13:35:50
Three?
Objection --
13:36:59
BO
W
. CO
M
disclosed.
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
Your Honor --
I have an objection.
objection is foundation.
MR. SEGURA:
11
MR. SEGURA:
12
version?
13
THE COURT:
14
You may.
Thank you.
15
MS. IAFRATE:
16
THE COURT:
17
MR. SEGURA:
No.
All right.
13:37:42
Thank you.
OF
18
BY MR. SEGURA:
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes, sir.
23
Q.
24
A.
Yes, sir.
25
Q.
FR
13:38:01
IEN
22
DS
21
13:37:32
TH
version?
EF
OG
THE COURT:
13:37:20
the foundation?
10
13:38:13
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
spreadsheets?
A.
spreadsheet.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
14
had talked about doing the entire year, just the month or what.
15
I thought they did the whole month, but it might have been just
16
17
Q.
18
Okay.
EF
OG
13:38:52
13:39:16
MR. SEGURA:
13:39:36
23
MS. IAFRATE:
24
THE COURT:
25
MR. WALKER:
FR
13:38:36
TH
Yes, sir.
IEN
22
DS
21
OF
19
20
13:39:50
THE COURT:
BO
W
. CO
M
is admitted.
The exhibit
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
Yes, sir.
EF
OG
10
THE WITNESS:
11
THE COURT:
No, sir.
13
of that?
THE WITNESS:
15
THE COURT:
All right.
13:40:28
17
OF
THE WITNESS:
18
THE COURT:
19
BY MR. SEGURA:
20
Q.
Thank you.
DS
A.
Yes, sir.
23
Q.
24
25
FR
13:40:36
IEN
22
Not necessarily.
TH
14
21
13:40:17
12
16
13:40:02
Okay.
13:40:53
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
And the bottom row are the -- the total numbers for
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
correct?
EF
OG
13:41:13
A.
Yes, sir.
11
Q.
12
13
correct?
14
A.
Yes, sir.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
TH
10
13:41:30
Thank you.
13:41:39
And I
18
19
OF
17
20
MR. SEGURA:
23
13:41:59
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
So this --
24
MS. IAFRATE:
25
MR. SEGURA:
FR
Thank you.
better approach.
IEN
22
DS
21
THE COURT:
13:42:08
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
BO
W
. CO
M
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
Understood.
Merely showing it to
-- so that we could --
EF
OG
10
11
12
A.
BY MR. SEGURA:
15
Q.
TH
THE COURT:
14
16
THE COURT:
OF
THE WITNESS:
Okay.
BY MR. SEGURA:
20
Q.
A.
Q.
Okay.
IEN
DS
19
22
13:42:49
18
21
13:42:28
13
17
13:42:17
23
24
25
A.
FR
13:43:08
Yes, sir.
13:43:19
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
for the year -- for the -- for the time period of December
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
13:43:33
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
11
really --
12
MR. COMO:
13
EF
OG
10
Any objections?
Overruled.
TH
15
BY MR. SEGURA:
16
Q.
17
13:44:03
Sir, I'd like you to turn to the last page on this exhibit.
OF
18
bottom?
20
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Pretty blurry.
IEN
DS
19
22
13:43:45
14
21
23
Q.
24
25
FR
13:44:17
13:44:37
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Thank you.
BO
W
. CO
M
the first page after the cover and zoom in on the year.
A.
Okay.
Q.
A.
And if we could go to
EF
OG
10
11
Q.
12
13
14
you?
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
18
A.
Yes, sir.
19
Q.
Okay.
21
TH
OF
MS. IAFRATE:
MR. COMO:
24
THE COURT:
FR
13:46:01
23
25
13:45:47
MR. SEGURA:
IEN
22
13:45:29
DS
20
13:45:01
admitted.
Overruled.
The exhibit is
13:46:12
BO
W
. CO
M
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
that I've referenced you before, Turned Over to ICE, and zoom
in.
13:46:24
A.
THE COURT:
10
it again.
11
MR. SEGURA:
12
EF
OG
I can't.
13
THE COURT:
14
MS. IAFRATE:
15
MR. SEGURA:
16
OF
MS. IAFRATE:
19
13:47:09
demonstrative purposes.
DS
THE COURT:
13:47:26
I'm
23
THE COURT:
24
BY MR. SEGURA:
25
Q.
FR
MS. IAFRATE:
IEN
22
18
21
Any objection?
TH
17
20
13:46:58
Thank you.
Can you make out the number at the bottom of the column,
13:47:32
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Unfortunately, I can't.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
charges, correct?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
10
A.
Yes, sir.
11
Q.
Thank you.
12
spreadsheets.
13:47:53
EF
OG
13
And no more
15
16
HSU operations?
17
A.
Yes, sir.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
Q.
OF
DS
23
A.
24
warrants.
25
Q.
FR
13:48:22
13:48:44
operation of HSU?
IEN
22
TH
14
21
13:48:03
Okay.
13:49:01
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
HSU operations?
A.
Yes, sir.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
14
A.
15
Q.
Sure.
16
17
18
A.
Yes, sir.
19
Q.
And why do you believe that indicates that the sheriff had
20
TH
13:49:52
OF
Q.
Okay.
13:50:05
23
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
13:49:27
A.
IEN
22
13:49:11
DS
21
EF
OG
13:50:32
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
He has.
Q.
Okay.
A.
location.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
Okay.
He would call to
14
15
A.
No, sir.
16
Q.
17
18
19
A.
Correct, sir.
20
Q.
DS
13:51:50
IEN
A.
23
Q.
24
25
FR
13:51:31
OF
TH
22
13:51:10
Thank you.
13
21
13:50:53
Or if they said
EF
OG
12
13:52:08
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
correct?
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
what was relevant.
BY MR. SEGURA:
Do you know?
10
Q.
11
12
office, correct?
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
15
16
17
A.
Yes, sir.
18
Q.
19
20
Ms. Iafrate?
23
TH
Q.
Thank you.
13:53:06
13:53:31
24
25
FR
13:52:33
OF
A.
IEN
22
DS
21
Okay.
13:52:25
EF
OG
13:53:47
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
Okay.
e-mails about?
A.
Q.
supposed to save?
A.
Q.
EF
OG
arrived at HSU, you were told that one of the deputies at HSU
11
12
correct?
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes, sir.
20
Q.
A.
Who?
Q.
23
A.
24
25
Q.
FR
13:54:23
13:54:35
OF
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
13:54:05
13:54:44
13:55:10
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
came in.
13:55:23
MR. SEGURA:
THE CLERK:
EF
OG
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
What is it?
13
A.
14
15
Q.
Thank you.
16
TH
10
MR. SEGURA:
17
19
OF
20
MS. IAFRATE:
MR. COMO:
No objection.
DS
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
133 is admitted.
23
BY MR. SEGURA:
24
Q.
25
FR
13:56:25
IEN
22
13:56:11
18
21
13:56:04
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
Sure.
Armendariz?
A.
Q.
Fair enough.
EF
OG
Yes, sir.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
15
correct?
16
A.
17
18
Q.
MR. SEGURA:
23
Q.
24
A.
Yes, sir.
25
Q.
Is this the memo that you were just describing that you
FR
13:57:39
BY MR. SEGURA:
IEN
22
13:57:20
Okay.
DS
21
13:57:04
OF
19
Yes, sir.
TH
10
20
13:56:48
13:58:05
BO
W
. CO
M
also sent to -- that you also drafted and sent to Chief Trombi?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
correct?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Armendariz?
EF
OG
10
A.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
14
office.
15
to his office.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Chief Trombi.
19
20
Q.
TH
OF
13:59:11
23
A.
24
him to work.
25
Q.
FR
13:58:54
IEN
22
13:58:30
DS
21
13:58:16
It's police for we're going to put him on the street, put
13:59:28
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Correct, sir.
Q.
A.
No, sir.
Q.
Why's that?
A.
EF
OG
13:59:44
11
Q.
12
A.
Yes, sir.
13
Q.
14
specialty unit?
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
out on patrol?
18
A.
19
more freedom.
20
Q.
Okay.
14:00:46
Yes, sir.
23
MR. SEGURA:
24
25
THE COURT:
FR
14:00:30
OF
Yes, sir.
IEN
22
14:00:09
And would you say that HSU members have more freedom
DS
21
TH
10
Thank you.
14:00:55
MS. IAFRATE:
BO
W
. CO
M
Yes, please.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. IAFRATE:
Q.
A.
Q.
background.
A.
Yes, ma'am.
Q.
EF
OG
14:01:36
11
A.
Yes, ma'am.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes, ma'am.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
18
19
Q.
20
create curriculums?
OF
That's what
14:01:55
It's
A.
I did not.
Q.
IEN
22
14:01:46
DS
21
TH
10
24
A.
25
tell me, Hey, we need to get going on this, or I'd like to see
FR
23
14:02:15
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Q.
Do you know when you were made aware that you were moving
A.
Q.
Within days?
A.
10
Q.
Is that typical that you'd get short notice and then you're
11
12
A.
13
start.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
And there was a time frame where you were allowed to make
17
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
A.
EF
OG
14:03:17
14:03:31
OF
TH
23
24
Q.
25
examination.
FR
14:02:50
14:03:42
five days from when Chief Trombi had called me to when I spoke
IEN
22
It can be.
DS
21
14:04:06
MR. SEGURA:
199?
189.
BO
W
. CO
M
BY MS. IAFRATE:
Q.
A.
Yes, ma'am.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
Q.
EF
OG
10
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
there?
14
A.
Yes, ma'am.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
19
Q.
20
A.
Q.
Why don't you take a moment and look at it and see if you
TH
OF
14:05:21
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
And that was the first time you recall seeing it?
25
A.
FR
14:05:00
IEN
22
14:04:49
DS
21
14:04:26
14:05:41
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
these scenarios?
A.
No, ma'am.
Q.
A.
No, ma'am.
Q.
A.
EF
OG
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
Yes, sir.
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
Q.
20
A.
No, ma'am.
Q.
14:07:13
OF
DS
23
A.
24
Q.
No.
25
FR
14:06:53
14:07:25
IEN
22
TH
10
21
14:06:10
BO
W
. CO
M
you could hear the two -- hear the officer and the individuals
talking?
A.
could hear the words of what they were saying, but I could hear
people talking.
Q.
A.
No, ma'am.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
Q.
14
case?
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Who?
19
A.
20
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
14:08:40
EF
OG
OF
TH
14:08:10
14:09:01
23
A.
I thought I did.
24
Q.
25
FR
14:07:58
IEN
22
I don't remember if I
DS
21
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
stated?
A.
Q.
injunction?
What
14:09:28
So let's go back.
EF
OG
Okay.
10
A.
I did.
11
Q.
When?
12
A.
13
with it.
14
Q.
From whom?
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
20
A.
TH
OF
14:10:05
When you had that conversation with Sheriff Arpaio that was
23
24
that time you believed that it was still appropriate that you
25
FR
14:09:47
Now it's clear that you can't detain anybody without state
IEN
22
DS
21
14:09:40
14:10:32
Patrol, correct?
MR. SEGURA:
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
Lieutenant --
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
11
rephrase?
12
MS. IAFRATE:
13
THE COURT:
14
Sorry, sir.
EF
OG
question.
Sure.
TH
THE WITNESS:
16
14:10:58
17
Thank you.
OF
THE COURT:
18
BY MS. IAFRATE:
19
Q.
20
DS
A.
I'm sorry.
Q.
IEN
22
14:10:47
15
21
14:10:40
10
BO
W
. CO
M
24
25
A.
FR
23
Yes.
14:11:18
14:11:29
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
regarding what?
A.
something.
Q.
Okay.
We were up there
EF
OG
You said that the only briefings that you did for the
correct?
11
A.
Yes, ma'am.
12
Q.
13
A.
Yes, ma'am.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
17
Q.
18
posed the question to you and then said that you would turn
19
20
A.
Yes, ma'am.
Q.
14:12:21
OF
DS
23
A.
24
25
Q.
FR
14:12:08
14:12:49
IEN
22
TH
10
21
14:11:43
14:13:04
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
14:13:39
BY MS. IAFRATE:
Sorry.
EF
OG
10
Q.
11
A.
Okay.
12
Q.
13
A.
Okay.
14
have --
15
Q.
Okay, Lieutenant.
16
A.
Okay.
17
Q.
I don't
TH
I have a 207.
14:14:15
2- --
Q.
207.
23
A.
Yes, ma'am.
24
Q.
25
FR
14:14:29
BY MS. IAFRATE:
IEN
22
DS
21
19
20
OF
18
14:13:50
14:14:35
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Correct, ma'am.
Q.
There are more documents that are associated with that face
sheet, correct?
A.
Yes, ma'am.
Q.
A.
Yes, ma'am.
Q.
A.
No, ma'am.
Q.
10
A.
Only roughly.
11
Q.
12
A.
No, ma'am.
13
14
creation?
15
THE WITNESS:
16
THE COURT:
17
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
19
21
14:15:18
Yes, sir.
THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
14:15:27
BY MS. IAFRATE:
Q.
IEN
22
Yes, sir.
DS
20
14:15:00
OF
18
14:14:44
TH
THE COURT:
EF
OG
not?
24
A.
25
up that project, and then the one that is supporting him, and I
FR
23
BO
W
. CO
M
talked to them and asked them what steps they'd gone through to
I've asked --
we doing?
Q.
correct?
A.
Yes, ma'am.
10
Q.
11
A.
I believe so.
12
Q.
What he does?
13
A.
Yes, ma'am.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Yes, ma'am.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
Q.
2012.
A.
Q.
EF
OG
TH
14:16:21
14:16:39
23
24
A.
No, ma'am.
25
Q.
FR
14:16:10
OF
IEN
22
14:16:00
DS
21
14:16:56
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
A.
Yes, ma'am.
Q.
Was that the first time that anyone asked you to look at
A.
Q.
When the group from CCID and my office went out to your
EF
OG
14:17:21
11
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
16
17
Q.
18
saying that, you were saying -- you were pulling it up and then
19
20
OF
14:18:14
23
way to where you could drag and click the e-mails over.
24
Q.
25
A.
Yes, ma'am.
FR
14:17:57
IEN
22
A.
14:17:38
DS
21
TH
10
14:18:34
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
And then that jump drive was given to someone from CCID?
A.
Yes, ma'am.
Q.
were you?
A.
No, ma'am.
Q.
training?
A.
Q.
EF
OG
14:18:44
11
A.
No, ma'am.
12
Q.
13
A.
Pardon me?
14
Q.
15
A.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
Yes, ma'am.
19
Q.
20
Q.
23
A.
No, ma'am.
24
Q.
25
A.
Yes, ma'am.
FR
14:19:45
14:19:54
OF
A.
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
14:20:40
14:20:54
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Yes, ma'am.
Q.
A.
No, ma'am.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes, ma'am.
9
10
EF
OG
MS. IAFRATE:
(Pause in proceedings.)
11
BY MS. IAFRATE:
12
Q.
13
TH
15
A.
Yes, ma'am.
16
Q.
17
14:22:46
OF
18
A.
Yes, ma'am.
19
Q.
20
complaints, correct?
14:23:02
DS
A.
IEN
22
14:21:53
14
21
14:21:22
23
THE WITNESS:
BY MS. IAFRATE:
25
Q.
FR
24
Yes, ma'am.
14:23:28
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, ma'am.
Q.
Armendariz, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
EF
OG
10
of those things.
11
saw.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes, ma'am.
15
Q.
And in that you indicate that you did not observe the
16
17
A.
TH
THE COURT:
Mr. Walker.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
Q.
23
A.
24
Q.
25
FR
14:24:50
BY MR. WALKER:
IEN
22
14:24:16
Correct.
DS
21
14:24:05
MS. IAFRATE:
19
20
OF
18
14:23:39
BO
W
. CO
M
that you were asked about and looked at during your testimony
EF
OG
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
16
Q.
17
from which these spreadsheets were created, did you enter any
18
19
A.
No, sir.
20
Q.
OF
A.
Yes.
14:26:11
23
worked on it.
24
Q.
25
FR
14:25:56
entered?
IEN
22
14:25:39
Go to the computer; he
DS
21
Okay.
TH
10
14:25:21
BO
W
. CO
M
data?
A.
stuff in before.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
that up there?
A.
2011 year?
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
Yes.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
17
18
EF
OG
14:27:05
Sorry.
TH
14:27:19
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
23
24
A.
No, sir.
25
Q.
FR
14:27:35
IEN
22
Yes.
DS
21
14:26:41
OF
19
20
14:27:45
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
No, sir.
Q.
A.
there a few times with the -- with the squads to see how they
did things.
And if I
14:28:05
EF
OG
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
Sorry?
13
A.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
arrived at HSU?
16
A.
17
Q.
18
19
20
23
24
FR
25
TH
OF
14:28:39
14:29:01
in criminal activity?
A.
IEN
22
DS
21
14:28:20
Q.
Sorry.
14:29:16
BO
W
. CO
M
activity?
A.
asking.
Q.
there was not probable cause to believe they had been involved
EF
OG
We've been -- we've been talking about people who were sent
10
11
12
13
Yes, sir.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
17
A.
18
19
20
TH
A.
OF
I can't
DS
14:30:39
wouldn't understand.
Q.
23
24
25
FR
14:30:14
IEN
22
14:29:59
Do you understand?
14
21
14:29:40
14:31:00
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
A.
Oh, I don't --
Q.
A.
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
10
Mr. Como.
11
14:31:15
EF
OG
Okay.
14:31:26
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. COMO:
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
17
order.
A.
Yes, sir.
20
Q.
IEN
22
14:31:52
DS
19
21
14:31:42
OF
18
TH
12
23
A.
Yes, sir.
24
Q.
Correct?
FR
25
Correct, sir.
Okay.
14:32:13
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Tim Casey on which you were copied dated January 24, 2012?
A.
Q.
Yes.
10
A.
11
Q.
All right.
12
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
16
17
agree?
18
A.
Yes, sir.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
TH
OF
A.
Yes.
14:33:35
Yes.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
14:33:06
IEN
22
14:32:41
DS
21
EF
OG
And this -- when you received that e-mail would have been
Yes, sir.
14:33:54
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
scenarios?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
would see that that unfinished business had been pending for
A.
Yes, sir.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
Yes, sir.
13
Q.
14
15
essentially, right?
16
A.
Yes, sir.
17
Q.
When you took over HSU, did you do anything to move along
18
19
A.
20
14:34:43
14:34:57
A.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
14:34:22
OF
TH
EF
OG
Q.
IEN
22
14:34:03
DS
21
And if you read this at the time, you would have recognized
Okay.
Did you direct -- once you took over HSU, did you
14:35:14
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
that, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
EF
OG
10
11
A.
Correct, sir.
12
Q.
All right.
13
14
us out?
15
A.
TH
Okay.
19
OF
20
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
14:36:01
Thank you.
DS
Redirect?
23
Q.
24
25
documentation of it?
FR
14:36:09
BY MR. SEGURA:
IEN
22
Thank you.
18
21
Chief,
MR. COMO:
17
14:35:46
I don't recall.
16
14:35:30
14:36:28
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Okay.
14:36:38
It was
EF
OG
stop?
11
A.
12
Q.
13
stopped?
14
A.
Yes, sir.
15
Q.
16
17
correct?
18
A.
19
Q.
20
correct?
14:37:06
OF
Not generally.
Q.
23
A.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
Exhibits 207, 208, and 209, those were spreadsheets only for
FR
14:36:57
14:37:34
A.
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
BO
W
. CO
M
that correct?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
correct?
A.
Correct, sir.
Q.
Okay.
EF
OG
A.
Correct, sir.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
And you also told Ms. Iafrate that you were instructed to
15
16
A.
Clarify that?
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
Q.
A.
At the beginning.
14:38:43
DS
OF
14:39:05
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
14:38:27
IEN
22
TH
10
21
14:38:08
Okay.
And did you ever make -- did you ever make any
No, sir.
14:39:34
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
correct?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
spreadsheet?
11
A.
No, sir.
12
MR. SEGURA:
13
THE COURT:
14
No further questions.
TH
EXAMINATION
16
BY THE COURT:
17
Q.
18
interdiction unit?
19
A.
20
time period.
OF
DS
Q.
14:40:39
And so that you had human smuggling and you had a criminal
employment unit?
23
A.
Yes, sir.
24
Q.
25
A.
Yes, sir.
FR
14:40:19
IEN
22
Thank you.
14:40:10
15
21
EF
OG
10
14:39:58
14:40:50
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
Casa Grande.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
13
14
A.
15
16
preassigned spot; sometimes we would take them all the way down
17
to ICE.
18
Q.
19
20
Border Patrol.
TH
14:41:50
14:42:05
23
24
Q.
25
FR
Sometimes they
OF
All right.
DS
A.
14:41:29
IEN
22
EF
OG
21
14:41:12
Now, was there any -- when -- are you familiar with the
14:42:20
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
individual, the -- they would give us the phone back, and then
14:42:34
EF
OG
10
person.
11
Q.
12
A.
Correct.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
motor vehicle?
17
A.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
Or partway.
A.
Q.
And when ICE came and got them, was it in a motor vehicle?
TH
23
A.
24
Q.
25
vehicle?
FR
14:42:50
14:42:58
OF
IEN
22
DS
21
14:43:09
14:43:23
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Correct, sir.
Q.
A.
Q.
EF
OG
A.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
TH
10
16
THE COURT:
17
(Pause in proceedings.)
That's all I have.
DS
mine?
IEN
22
14:44:12
THE COURT:
19
21
14:44:00
OF
18
20
14:43:30
14:44:29
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
24
THE COURT:
25
MR. COMO:
FR
23
Mr. Como?
Nothing, Your Honor.
14:44:34
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
Mr. Walker?
BO
W
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M
MR. SEGURA:
everybody a break.
All right.
EF
OG
10
11
3 o'clock.
12
(Recess taken.)
13
THE CLERK:
session.
We'll be back at
14:44:54
Court is now in
TH
14
15
THE COURT:
16
Please be seated.
15:03:40
18
19
20
DS
You
We
23
24
evaluations I discussed.
25
FR
15:03:59
IEN
22
OF
17
21
14:44:42
BO
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and 543, I mean the other investigations that arose from the
MR. SEGURA:
THE CLERK:
EF
OG
THE WITNESS:
10
11
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. SEGURA:
14
Thank you.
TH
MICHAEL TROWBRIDGE
16
17
15:05:38
OF
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. SEGURA:
19
Q.
20
A.
Good afternoon.
Q.
A.
IEN
DS
18
22
15:05:05
15
21
15:04:37
Q.
24
correct?
25
A.
FR
23
15:05:42
15:05:54
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
March of 2011.
Q.
And Lieutenant Sousa called you and asked you to join HSU,
is that correct?
EF
OG
15:06:11
A.
Correct.
11
Q.
And what was your -- what was your position within HSU?
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
Correct.
15
Q.
16
17
smuggling?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
And you were with HSU until March of 2013, is that right?
20
A.
Correct.
Q.
15:06:44
OF
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
FR
15:06:25
15:07:01
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
15:07:14
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
And once the vehicle was stopped, HSU members would try to
A.
Correct.
Q.
EF
OG
10
that right?
11
A.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
16
17
Q.
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
A.
If they knew who was driving the vehicle and where they
TH
OF
15:08:11
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
15:07:59
IEN
22
15:07:37
DS
21
15:07:23
Yes.
15:08:33
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
to whether they paid money or knew the driver, but not all the
passengers, right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
12
13
14
15
A.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
EF
OG
TH
15:09:04
15:09:28
OF
15:09:42
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
FR
15:08:50
IEN
22
DS
21
Okay.
15:10:04
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
A.
there, make sure they didn't have any medical conditions, call
Lower Buckeye jail, get them food, and then eventually the
detectives would start going in one by one and getting them for
Okay.
EF
OG
the interviews.
11
Q.
12
A.
It could.
13
Q.
14
LEAR policy?
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
19
20
15:10:44
A.
Yes.
15:11:00
23
Q.
24
25
FR
15:10:36
OF
DS
Q.
IEN
22
TH
10
21
15:10:21
15:11:22
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
A.
No.
Q.
Okay.
A.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
group of individuals.
13
Q.
14
a second.
15
15:11:36
EF
OG
Thank you.
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
came out.
DS
Q.
Okay.
A.
IEN
22
24
the country.
25
Q.
Okay.
15:12:22
23
FR
15:12:07
OF
16
21
15:11:52
TH
Okay.
15:12:37
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
about.
EF
OG
10
Q.
11
right?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
Correct.
19
Q.
20
A.
TH
OF
15:13:22
15:13:42
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
15:13:07
IEN
22
DS
21
15:12:51
Okay.
Yes.
15:14:04
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Q.
correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
that correct?
EF
OG
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
13
15:14:55
14
TH
15
16
time -- I said:
17
18
I mean,
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
FR
15:15:40
IEN
22
DS
21
15:15:24
OF
19
20
15:14:28
15:15:59
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Sometimes, yes.
Q.
order?
A.
Yes, it was.
Q.
You didn't raise this because you assumed that you would be
A.
Correct.
Q.
EF
OG
practices, correct?
11
A.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
A.
Correct.
17
Q.
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
A.
I'm not sure when the -- exactly the date they were held.
Q.
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
24
was discussed?
25
A.
FR
15:16:26
15:16:48
OF
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
15:16:08
15:17:05
15:17:17
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes, he was.
Q.
A.
Chief Sands was, and I don't know if the chief deputy was.
Q.
15:17:33
10
EF
OG
"He was."
11
And I asked:
12
13
14
15
Lisa Allen.
TH
16
Yes.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
Yes.
Q.
DS
OF
A.
23
A.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
A.
Yes.
FR
15:18:52
IEN
22
15:18:35
17
21
15:18:18
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
correct?
A.
Q.
You said earlier that the December 2011 order was discussed
EF
OG
11
A.
Yes, it was.
12
Q.
13
14
15
A.
16
conversation.
17
Q.
18
is that correct?
19
A.
Correct.
20
Q.
15:19:53
OF
15:20:05
speakerphone?
A.
Correct.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
15:19:39
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
15:19:18
15:20:21
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And from what you heard, the sheriff wanted them held until
A.
effect.
Q.
Okay.
EF
OG
10
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
A.
I have no idea.
14
TH
MR. SEGURA:
15:20:49
15
16
BY MR. SEGURA:
17
Q.
18
19
20
OF
been.
I don't know.
IEN
22
24
FR
It could have
Maybe."
point, I guess."
15:22:33
23
25
15:21:57
DS
21
15:20:32
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes, it was.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
And the sheriff would also often be in the media after HSU
17
operations?
18
A.
Correct.
19
Q.
20
A.
I guess, yes.
Q.
15:22:50
23
A.
24
Q.
25
FR
15:23:26
15:23:45
OF
TH
EF
OG
That basically
15:23:57
correct?
IEN
22
See that?
DS
21
15:24:09
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
10
A.
11
12
Q.
13
A.
14
Manny Madrid.
15
Q.
16
A.
Yes, he was.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
Yes, he did.
20
Q.
A.
15:24:53
OF
TH
15:24:40
15:25:05
Yes.
23
Q.
24
right?
25
A.
FR
15:24:28
IEN
22
DS
21
EF
OG
And you raised your concerns with those above you, is that
Yes.
15:25:19
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
13
A.
I don't.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes, it was.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
And while you were there, the doctor called -- his doctor
19
20
EF
OG
TH
Yes.
Q.
23
is that correct?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
15:25:42
15:25:56
OF
A.
IEN
22
15:25:31
DS
21
15:26:13
15:26:20
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
But MCSO gave him a fit for duty package after that?
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
10
Q.
11
A.
Yes, he did.
12
Q.
13
returned?
14
A.
15
16
Q.
17
18
A.
19
20
15:26:58
TH
15:27:11
OF
Q.
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
24
complaints --
25
A.
FR
15:26:42
IEN
22
DS
21
Yes.
EF
OG
15:27:27
Yes.
15:27:46
Q.
-- is that correct?
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
Yes, it is.
12
Q.
13
A.
14
Q.
What did you -- what was the purpose of your writing this
15
memorandum?
16
A.
17
18
Q.
19
20
A.
Q.
TH
OF
15:28:50
correct?
23
A.
Possibly.
24
Q.
25
FR
15:28:33
IEN
22
15:28:16
DS
21
EF
OG
15:28:01
15:29:09
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
It got denied.
text message saying to give him back his vehicle and put him
Q.
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
14
the wall?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
A.
Yes, I did.
18
Q.
-- on the wall?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
A.
I believe so.
Q.
EF
OG
TH
23
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
15:29:16
15:29:37
15:29:47
OF
IEN
22
DS
21
15:29:57
15:30:09
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
office?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
19
20
correct?
EF
OG
TH
No.
Q.
23
24
A.
FR
25
15:30:54
OF
A.
IEN
22
15:30:47
15:31:20
DS
21
15:30:35
Yes.
MR. SEGURA:
15:31:56
BO
W
. CO
M
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
correct?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
is that correct?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
You did not see this e-mail when you went through your
14
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
No, I do not.
18
Q.
19
operations?
20
A.
Yes.
Q.
EF
OG
TH
OF
23
A.
24
25
Q.
FR
15:32:48
operations?
IEN
22
15:32:35
15:33:01
DS
21
15:32:14
15:33:16
instructions?
A.
BO
W
. CO
M
MR. SEGURA:
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
that correct?"
15:34:35
9
10
"Correct."
EF
OG
11
12
understanding?"
13
15:34:46
14
TH
1 and 2, up as well.
15
15:35:18
17
18
Exhibit 189.
OF
16
19
21
23
FR
24
25
15:35:37
understanding?"
IEN
22
DS
20
I asked you:
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
Thank you.
Ms. Iafrate.
BO
W
. CO
M
CROSS-EXAMINATION
15:36:37
BY MS. IAFRATE:
Q.
Good afternoon.
A.
Good afternoon.
Q.
EF
OG
10
11
12
No.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
I do not.
18
Q.
19
training scenarios.
20
you if you were familiar with that e-mail with the training
OF
DS
15:36:57
A.
23
Q.
24
that e-mail?
25
A.
FR
15:37:20
IEN
22
TH
13
21
15:36:41
At my deposition.
15:37:34
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
No.
10
Q.
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
13
preliminary injunction.
14
EF
OG
TH
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
DS
IEN
23
Q.
24
25
orders?
FR
15:38:20
OF
22
15:37:55
15
21
15:37:47
15:38:25
15:38:40
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
not do that.
Q.
We believed we were.
Yes.
10
Q.
And then if probable cause was not reached, then the group
11
12
EF
OG
Yes.
14
Q.
15
16
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
DS
15:39:50
IEN
23
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
15:39:37
OF
TH
A.
22
15:39:21
13
21
15:39:01
15:40:02
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
No.
Q.
location, correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
go.
EF
OG
15:40:18
10
Q.
11
correct?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
TH
OF
Q.
24
investigations "interdictions."
FR
15:40:36
15:40:59
23
25
15:40:28
happened?
IEN
22
DS
21
15:41:20
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
would occur?
A.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
Did you brief the sheriff before you went out on these
A.
No.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
14
A.
No.
15
Q.
16
would occur?
17
A.
18
times, though.
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes.
Q.
TH
OF
15:41:44
15:41:51
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
deposition.
FR
15:41:31
15:42:10
IEN
22
DS
21
EF
OG
15:42:40
BO
W
. CO
M
you:
You answered:
being held."
EF
OG
crime on the basis that they are here illegally after the
10
11
"Yes."
12
Yes.
14
Q.
15
16
order?"
17
OF
You answered:
18
15:43:22
DS
You answered:
crime, and then that was just general custom, that we would
23
24
FR
25
15:43:38
IEN
22
15:43:13
19
21
TH
13
20
15:42:59
15:43:54
Court's order?"
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
preliminary injunction?
A.
No.
Q.
EF
OG
11
now, correct?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
Sergeant?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
Did anyone task you with training your unit regarding the
17
preliminary injunction?
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
20
A.
OF
15:44:55
15:45:28
Yes.
23
Q.
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
15:44:15
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
15:44:04
15:45:34
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
It was before.
10
Q.
That was the first time that you entered any area of his
11
home?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
to check welfare to see if he was okay, that was the first time
15
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
18
for duty?
19
A.
No.
20
Q.
A.
EF
OG
TH
15:46:14
OF
23
Q.
24
duty?
25
A.
FR
15:45:58
15:46:26
IEN
22
DS
21
15:45:45
Yes.
15:46:40
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
Armendariz?
A.
Q.
Why?
A.
Q.
Not exactly.
15:47:18
EF
OG
Did you see any concerning behavior when you kept a closer
10
eye on him?
11
A.
12
Q.
13
cameras in HSU.
14
HSU?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
TH
OF
15:48:00
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
A.
FR
15:47:52
IEN
22
DS
21
15:47:28
15:48:16
BO
W
. CO
M
Executive Chief Dave Trombi said to get all the stuff together,
basically.
Q.
regarding HSU?
A.
No.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
2011?
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
2012?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
2013?
14
A.
No.
15
Q.
16
relate to HSU?
17
A.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
through them.
EF
OG
TH
A.
No.
23
Q.
24
FR
25
15:48:39
OF
Q.
IEN
22
15:48:36
DS
21
15:48:32
15:49:05
15:49:25
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
first stop that I had made, they took the plate off and gave it
EF
OG
So the
to me in my office.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
TH
10
15
MS. IAFRATE:
16
THE COURT:
17
MR. WALKER:
Honor.
19
21
MR. COMO:
23
24
FR
25
15:50:06
Mr. Walker.
No questions for this witness, Your
Mr. Como.
15:50:12
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. COMO:
IEN
22
THE COURT:
DS
20
15:49:51
OF
18
15:49:35
Q.
15:50:36
BO
W
. CO
M
and turn them over to ICE when there was no state charges
against them?
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
Q.
EF
OG
Okay.
15:50:54
11
injunction order?
12
A.
I don't remember.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
17
18
correct?
19
A.
21
THE COURT:
MR. SEGURA:
23
24
BY MR. SEGURA:
25
Q.
FR
15:51:20
OF
MR. COMO:
IEN
22
15:51:08
Correct.
DS
20
TH
10
No further questions.
15:51:38
Mr. Segura.
Yes, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
I'd just like to clarify some -- a few things I'd asked you
15:51:47
BO
W
. CO
M
before.
A.
No.
Q.
officer?
A.
Q.
Or an HSU supervisor?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Are you aware that 287(g) had ended prior to you coming to
11
HSU?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
18
19
A.
No.
20
Q.
TH
15:52:28
OF
15:52:44
23
24
A.
25
conversation.
FR
15:52:12
IEN
22
15:52:03
DS
21
EF
OG
I don't remember.
Q.
So I asked you:
BO
W
. CO
M
10
them there?"
11
EF
OG
15:53:54
12
13
14
TH
15
A.
Yes, it is.
16
Q.
17
through 16.
I asked you:
19
"Yes."
15:54:52
IEN
22
DS
21
15:54:20
OF
18
20
15:54:05
23
"Correct."
Right?
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
24
15:55:01
A.
Yes, it is.
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
Ms. Iafrate.
BO
W
. CO
M
BY MS. IAFRATE:
Q.
A.
No.
10
Q.
11
12
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
TH
EF
OG
when there was a discussion regarding what did and did not
20
DS
15:56:02
A.
Yes.
Q.
IEN
22
15:55:43
19
21
15:55:29
OF
18
15:55:19
23
A.
Correct.
MS. IAFRATE:
25
THE COURT:
FR
24
Nothing further.
Mr. Walker?
15:56:11
BO
W
. CO
M
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
MR. COMO:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
Next witness.
MR. YOUNG:
Thank you.
Emily Doan.
15:56:19
EF
OG
We have not
10
11
the witness.
12
THE COURT:
13
THE CLERK:
All right.
15
THE WITNESS:
16
THE CLERK:
17
THE COURT:
Please proceed.
TH
14
Emily Doan.
OF
18
20
DS
23
Q.
24
Court.
25
A.
FR
15:57:33
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. BYUN:
IEN
22
15:56:58
EMILY DOAN,
19
21
15:56:31
Good afternoon.
Good afternoon.
15:57:38
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
I am a paralegal there.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
you examined.
A.
EF
OG
10
11
12
MR. BYUN:
13
and 215.
14
215, please.
THE CLERK:
BY MR. BYUN:
17
Q.
18
A.
Yes, I do.
19
Q.
20
A.
DS
15:58:49
IEN
from defendants.
23
Q.
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
15:58:21
OF
16
22
15:58:04
TH
15
21
15:57:52
15:59:13
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
No.
MR. BYUN:
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
EF
OG
10
MR. WALKER:
11
MR. COMO:
12
THE COURT:
13
No objection.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
DS
question.
23
16:00:06
24
A.
25
FR
15:59:53
OF
IEN
22
TH
BY MR. BYUN:
Q.
15:59:44
None.
14
21
15:59:29
BO
W
. CO
M
review.
Q.
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
A.
I did.
Q.
A.
of incident reports that were dated before July 2012, but only
EF
OG
16:00:50
Q.
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
reports that are dated before July 2012 that the defendants
14
15
A.
16
17
Q.
18
Exhibit 215?
19
A.
20
Q.
16:01:27
OF
16:01:42
23
24
25
FR
16:01:11
IEN
22
DS
21
TH
10
16:02:07
MR. BYUN:
MS. IAFRATE:
Your Honor.
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
BO
W
. CO
M
The title?
The title.
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
If you can.
EF
OG
10
11
12
MR. COMO:
13
MR. WALKER:
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. BYUN:
16
17
THE COURT:
TH
All right.
No further questions.
16:02:42
Cross-examination.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. IAFRATE:
20
Q.
Good afternoon.
A.
Good afternoon.
Q.
IEN
DS
19
22
16:02:32
OF
18
21
16:02:19
A.
I did.
24
Q.
25
A.
Correct.
FR
23
16:02:56
16:03:02
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Q.
prior to trial?
A.
word searches that would have brought up the, you know -Q.
11
EF
OG
10
I understand what you did do; I'm trying to figure out what
12
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
Not every single audio and video that was produced, only
19
20
Q.
DS
I understand that you did key word searches, but I'm more
16:04:08
IEN
23
A.
24
documents, yes.
25
Q.
FR
16:03:52
OF
TH
case?
22
16:03:43
13
21
16:03:22
Okay.
16:04:26
BO
W
. CO
M
searches.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
My question is:
EF
OG
I understand.
16:04:48
10
11
A.
12
Q.
13
so voluminous, correct?
14
A.
15
16
Q.
17
A.
Yeah.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
A.
TH
OF
16:05:22
23
Q.
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
16:05:17
IEN
22
DS
21
16:05:01
16:05:40
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
on how to do it?
A.
Yes, I was.
Q.
A.
I spoke to my attorneys.
Q.
Who?
A.
Who precisely?
Q.
Anyone else?
10
A.
11
Q.
Anyone else?
12
A.
13
14
Q.
15
A.
16
17
reports.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
Q.
A.
Q.
And you didn't keep track of which search terms you used?
EF
OG
TH
23
A.
24
Q.
25
A.
FR
16:06:10
16:06:27
OF
IEN
22
I spoke to Hyun.
DS
21
16:05:52
16:06:48
16:07:05
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
MS. IAFRATE:
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
MR. COMO:
MR. BYUN:
No questions.
Mr. Walker?
EF
OG
Mr. Como?
THE COURT:
11
Next witness.
12
MR. YOUNG:
Arpaio.
14
Thank you.
16
17
that's five or ten minutes one side or the other, I'll allow
18
OF
15
20
21
23
24
FR
25
16:08:16
Okay?
THE CLERK:
16:08:32
IEN
22
We'll look to
MR. YOUNG:
DS
19
16:07:49
TH
THE COURT:
16:07:18
10
13
THE CLERK:
16:08:38
BO
W
. CO
M
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. YOUNG:
Q.
A.
Good afternoon.
Q.
You ask your officers to go out every day and risk their
A.
Yes.
Q.
EF
OG
16:09:09
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
The oath that you took to enforce the law includes orders
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
I'm going to ask that you look at Exhibits 71 and 72, and
16
actually 67.
17
TH
10
OF
19
20
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
IEN
DS
22
16:09:37
18
21
16:09:24
Q.
24
the Court's orders and that there are consequences for those
25
violations?
FR
23
16:10:16
16:10:32
MS. IAFRATE:
not in evidence.
BO
W
. CO
M
This exhibit is
THE COURT:
MR. YOUNG:
THE COURT:
MS. IAFRATE:
Any objection?
MR. WALKER:
11
MR. COMO:
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. YOUNG:
14
THE COURT:
EF
OG
10
15
MR. YOUNG:
16
THE COURT:
Hmm.
Same objection.
You may.
MS. IAFRATE:
20
DS
19
THE COURT:
16:11:24
constitute hearsay.
24
25
MS. IAFRATE:
FR
If
IEN
23
16:11:10
OF
party admission.
18
22
16:10:59
TH
17
21
16:10:44
I do not.
16:11:37
THE COURT:
All right.
BO
W
. CO
M
Exhibit 71 is admitted.
MR. YOUNG:
BY MR. YOUNG:
Q.
violated the Court's orders and that there are consequences for
A.
10
Q.
11
16:11:46
EF
OG
12
14
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
that correct?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
16:12:26
23
24
A.
25
FR
16:12:10
OF
DS
of 21 facts.
IEN
22
TH
13
21
16:11:59
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Well, with that caveat, you agree that those facts are
MR. YOUNG:
10
Exhibit 72.
EF
OG
11
MS. IAFRATE:
12
MR. WALKER:
13
MR. COMO:
14
TH
16
Exhibit 72 is admitted.
BY MR. YOUNG:
18
Q.
19
20
stipulation, correct?
OF
17
DS
A.
Q.
My question is:
23
24
are true?
25
A.
FR
16:13:59
IEN
22
16:13:50
No objection.
15
21
16:13:29
Yes.
16:14:32
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
5 on page 40 be displayed.
A.
Not necessarily.
Q.
that right?
EF
OG
10
A.
11
12
13
26 I left town, I was out of state, and didn't come back to the
14
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
line 9, be displayed.
20
23
24
FR
25
TH
OF
16:16:29
I'm going to ask that page 66, line 23, to page 67,
And at the bottom of page 66 you'll see
16:17:05
transcript.
IEN
22
16:15:52
On December
DS
21
When you say "shortly," I don't know what the time period,
16:15:34
"Do you
"Yes."
16:17:44
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
that it came out, but that was my only knowledge of that order.
Q.
A.
It's possible.
Q.
EF
OG
A.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
16
way, and you don't recall thinking that at that time, is that
17
right?
18
A.
That's right.
19
Q.
And you don't recall feeling that you needed to have the
20
A.
OF
16:19:00
23
Q.
24
25
FR
16:18:48
IEN
22
16:18:29
DS
21
TH
10
16:18:07
At the time that you first learned of it, you do not recall
16:19:18
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Q.
A.
Well, I'm going to ask you to look at your March 25, 2015,
I have it here.
THE COURT:
16:20:05
BY MR. YOUNG:
Q.
A.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
Page 42.
EF
OG
"Did you ever feel that you needed to have the Court
12
13
injunction."
14
TH
15
That would be
16
Yes.
18
Q.
Now, you don't remember one way or the other whether you
19
20
DS
OF
A.
A.
23
Q.
Okay.
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
16:20:52
is that right?
IEN
22
16:20:34
17
21
16:20:15
16:21:11
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
Yes.
Q.
And you knew that the Ninth Circuit affirmed the injunction
A.
What month?
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
EF
OG
16:21:30
10
correct?
11
A.
12
13
Q.
14
15
16
And there
OF
16:22:33
"Forget?
19
I knew it
DS
16:22:52
A.
IEN
22
You answered:
18
21
TH
17
20
16:21:52
23
THE COURT:
25
FR
24
I'm
16:23:05
BO
W
. CO
M
proceeding.
All right?
BY MR. YOUNG:
Q.
Thank you.
EF
OG
present day, you have known that the Court's injunction was out
11
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
Q.
Yes -- yes.
17
on the screen.
TH
10
16:24:07
It's also
20
DS
19
23
24
FR
25
16:24:25
IEN
22
16:23:39
OF
18
21
16:23:23
A.
Yes.
THE COURT:
16:24:39
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
Thank you.
BO
W
. CO
M
the screen.
BY MR. YOUNG:
Q.
that right?
A.
Q.
Well, this is --
10
A.
2011?
11
Q.
12
13
14
15
16
A.
17
18
19
20
Q.
EF
OG
16:25:22
TH
Is that right?
16:25:46
OF
Okay.
A.
23
24
this order.
25
FR
16:26:12
IEN
22
16:24:50
DS
21
BO
W
. CO
M
Q.
that you did not have the authority that you used to have under
A.
Q.
Right.
A.
Q.
quote:
Well, you knew, just based on the fact that you no longer
EF
OG
10
11
immigration law."
12
Yes.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
17
Q.
18
19
20
TH
A.
OF
DS
A.
Q.
23
24
done to make sure that your office was going to comply with the
25
FR
16:27:33
IEN
22
16:27:24
13
21
16:27:07
16:28:09
16:28:29
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
into it.
Q.
I'm going to ask that you look at page 67 of that April 29,
9
10
11
A.
12
13
Q.
14
deposition transcript?
15
A.
16
Q.
The one that we're looking at right now from April 29,
17
2014.
18
A.
19
Q.
20
A.
Q.
Yes.
A.
In what form?
23
Q.
Any form.
24
A.
No.
25
Q.
FR
16:29:38
OF
TH
IEN
22
16:29:16
DS
21
16:28:51
EF
OG
16:29:53
16:30:05
BO
W
. CO
M
what they were doing to make sure that your office complied
A.
Q.
never asked either of them what they were doing to make sure
A.
Q.
Okay.
It was
You
EF
OG
10
11
16:30:52
12
them, Sheridan or Sands, what they were doing to make sure that
13
14
15
TH
"No."
16
17
A.
18
19
Q.
20
OF
And you didn't ask either of them what they were doing to
A.
23
have.
24
Q.
25
FR
16:31:38
correct?
IEN
22
16:31:12
DS
21
16:30:30
Okay.
I may
A.
THE COURT:
BO
W
. CO
M
I may have.
carefully --
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
Yeah.
you want to say, that you want to get out about what he's
asking you, but Ms. Iafrate will have a full opportunity to ask
you questions where you can explain your side of the case.
And
EF
OG
10
11
12
THE WITNESS:
13
THE COURT:
14
THE WITNESS:
Okay?
TH
Yeah.
BY MR. YOUNG:
16
Q.
17
you never asked either Sheridan or Sands what they were doing
18
DS
Q.
IEN
22
16:32:35
OF
19
21
16:32:26
Thank you.
15
20
16:32:08
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
23
16:32:49
16:33:05
BO
W
. CO
M
correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
You cannot recall any instance where Chief Sands ever lied
EF
OG
A.
I don't recall.
11
Q.
12
A.
Correct.
13
Q.
Now, Chief Sands says that he wanted, and told you that he
14
wanted, that all deputies in the entire MCSO learn about the
15
injunction, but that you told him that it should go out only to
16
TH
10
17
16:33:55
OF
A.
19
Q.
All right.
20
DS
A.
That's correct.
23
Q.
24
with you after the injunction was granted when he told you that
25
FR
16:34:17
IEN
22
16:33:34
18
21
16:33:19
16:34:36
BO
W
. CO
M
you.
A.
Q.
happened, correct?
EF
OG
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
that right?
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
Yeah.
19
20
OF
16:35:18
DS
16:35:35
23
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
16:35:06
IEN
22
TH
10
21
16:34:54
16:35:52
BO
W
. CO
M
A.
investigation.
EF
OG
10
Q.
11
12
13
A.
14
why.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
19
Q.
20
TH
16:37:00
OF
A.
23
Q.
24
25
FR
16:36:40
IEN
22
DS
21
16:36:17
16:37:51
I don't recall.
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A.
Q.
EF
OG
You answered:
10
11
12
preliminary injunction?"
13
15
TH
16
I very
16:38:57
18
Q.
Well, you never told anyone else that they should get legal
19
20
A.
I had counsel.
Q.
But you never told anyone that they should get legal advice
OF
17
DS
16:39:10
IEN
22
16:38:41
14
21
16:38:26
A.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
FR
23
16:39:29
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anybody else that -- in your agency that they should get advice
No."
A.
Yes.
Q.
testified, right?
EF
OG
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
13
your office to keep certain people at the MCSO who were not
14
15
immigrants?
16
A.
17
18
Q.
19
20
to be illegal order.
TH
OF
16:40:41
23
Q.
Okay.
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
16:40:20
IEN
22
16:40:01
DS
21
16:39:48
16:41:01
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"Question:
saying is that you told him, and you told Lieutenant Sousa to
tell him, that he should keep those people there, even though
be there and release them and tell the media that you were
10
EF
OG
11
12
"Answer:
13
15
"Answer:
TH
16
he's saying.
17
19
DS
"Answer:
23
I don't,
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25
FR
16:42:32
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16:42:11
OF
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16:41:45
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16:42:50
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A.
Yes.
Q.
Over the course of 2012 and 2013, you issued various press
A.
Q.
releases, correct?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
12
13
A.
Normally, yes.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
that's what you're talking about, plus also some comments I had
17
18
investigation.
19
Q.
20
A.
TH
OF
16:43:41
16:44:06
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24
Q.
25
FR
16:43:28
IEN
22
16:43:13
DS
21
EF
OG
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A.
Yes.
Q.
You cannot think of any press release that your office has
issued that you would not stand behind today, is that right?
A.
possible.
Q.
A.
Well, as you sit here today, you cannot recall any press
EF
OG
10
wrong or that could have occurred and we find out later, but in
11
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
Q.
So you don't recall any right now that are wrong, is that
16
right?
17
A.
18
information.
19
Q.
20
TH
OF
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Q.
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25
A.
FR
16:45:33
IEN
22
16:45:09
DS
21
16:44:43
Well, it also lets the news media know what we're doing,
16:46:09
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Q.
do?
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
the MCSO, your office, acted differently from what you were
12
13
A.
I can't recall.
14
Q.
You can't recall any particular time when the MCSO did
15
16
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
to know your position and what you were doing about the illegal
20
EF
OG
TH
Counsel, who?
16:47:16
Q.
Well, during 2012, say, there were many people who were
16:47:33
23
coming to you and asking you what your position was on illegal
24
immigration issues and wanting to know what you and your office
25
FR
16:46:50
OF
A.
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16:46:29
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16:47:55
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right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
You wanted the public to know that you were enforcing the
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
EF
OG
16:48:07
11
12
13
as well.
14
TH
15
16
A.
17
Yes.
19
20
MS. IAFRATE:
Exhibit 75.
DS
THE COURT:
Any objection?
MR. WALKER:
MR. COMO:
IEN
22
16:48:43
OF
MR. YOUNG:
18
21
16:48:17
No objection.
No objection.
23
THE COURT:
24
FR
25
BY MR. YOUNG:
16:48:50
Exhibit 75 is admitted.
16:48:58
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
stated:
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Exhibit 76, which has been admitted, I'm going to ask you
11
12
13
14
15
EF
OG
16:49:58
17
A.
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19
Q.
20
A.
OF
It should be "illegal
23
Q.
24
25
FR
16:50:24
that's a statement.
IEN
22
DS
21
16:49:25
TH
16
16:49:16
16:50:46
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A.
Yes.
Q.
Exhibit 202B.
16:51:08
JORGE RAMOS:
MS. IAFRATE:
this is in evidence?
THE COURT:
10
MR. YOUNG:
Is this in evidence?
EF
OG
11
testimony, I'm going to move that 202B and 202C, which are
12
13
MS. IAFRATE:
14
15
16
lacks foundation.
TH
17
18
19
21
Yes.
24
Jorge Ramos.
FR
16:52:08
23
25
All right?
for Sheriff Arpaio to look at it and say that that's him and
IEN
22
MR. YOUNG:
DS
20
16:51:49
OF
THE COURT:
16:51:32
THE COURT:
16:52:24
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interview.
MR. YOUNG:
BY MR. YOUNG:
Q.
THE COURT:
BY MR. YOUNG:
Q.
16:52:32
9
10
EF
OG
11
self-deportation policy?
12
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
13
situation.
14
Why not enforce the laws here in the United States if they're
15
16
TH
17
OF
JORGE RAMOS:
19
that's completely --
JORGE RAMOS:
23
That's --
Well --
16:53:17
24
JORGE RAMOS:
25
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
FR
16:53:05
-- unreasonable.
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
IEN
22
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
DS
21
What does
18
20
16:52:45
On buses or airplanes?
16:53:26
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JORGE RAMOS:
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
Yes, we are.
We just arrested 31
them, the majority we book into our jail, we don't turn it over
to ICE.
illegals.
So I'm not
11
BY MR. YOUNG:
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
Q.
16
available on YouTube.
17
TH
16:54:10
Yes.
THE COURT:
Objections?
DS
MR. YOUNG:
MS. IAFRATE:
IEN
22
OF
A.
19
21
16:54:02
18
20
16:53:40
EF
OG
10
Arresting
23
THE COURT:
16:54:23
I would object as to
objection, but if you wish to play the rest of the portion and
25
FR
24
16:54:35
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MR. WALKER:
16:54:57
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
10
THE COURT:
11
Yes.
EF
OG
16:55:11
12
MR. YOUNG:
14
Mr. Walker's not having seen -- I think we've also given the
15
16
17
of them.
OF
TH
13
18
THE COURT:
19
21
MR. YOUNG:
Yes.
THE COURT:
202B is admitted.
23
BY MR. YOUNG:
24
Q.
25
being booked into jail and not being turned over to ICE.
FR
16:55:42
IEN
22
DS
20
All right.
16:55:27
16:55:49
BO
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means that a minority were not being booked into jail and were
A.
Q.
to Mr. Ramos that a majority were booked into jail and not
not booked into jail and were turned over to ICE, correct?
11
MS. IAFRATE:
12
THE COURT:
13
THE WITNESS:
Overruled.
15
BY MR. YOUNG:
16
Q.
17
book them into jail because you didn't have state charges to
18
19
A.
20
elaborated.
TH
16:56:44
OF
Some of them were turned over to ICE because you did not
I don't believe I
DS
23
24
FR
25
16:56:55
IEN
22
16:56:31
14
21
16:56:09
You said
EF
OG
10
No.
same interview.
MS. IAFRATE:
similar objection?
16:57:18
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THE COURT:
That's correct.
MR. YOUNG:
11
THE COURT:
EF
OG
10
All right.
13
14
MR. YOUNG:
15
16
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
TH
18
Latino.
OF
America, Texas, and Arizona, I've never had any problems with a
IEN
22
JORGE RAMOS:
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
DS
21
JORGE RAMOS:
-- I'm enforcing --
16:58:14
They don't.
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
23
JORGE RAMOS:
24
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
25
JORGE RAMOS:
FR
16:57:58
17
20
16:57:50
12
19
16:57:34
-- the state --
16:58:15
these, but --
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
JORGE RAMOS:
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you.
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
JORGE RAMOS:
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
JORGE RAMOS:
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
16:58:20
EF
OG
No.
10
JORGE RAMOS:
11
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
-- that you --
12
13
may be --
14
JORGE RAMOS:
15
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
16
JORGE RAMOS:
17
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
16:58:23
There
OF
TH
I've seen --
18
JORGE RAMOS:
-- a small group --
16:58:32
20
21
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
JORGE RAMOS:
IEN
22
DS
19
23
25
JORGE RAMOS:
FR
24
16:58:37
-- and discrimination.
The face of
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
Okay.
BO
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All right.
Arizona --
16:58:55
JORGE RAMOS:
SHERIFF ARPAIO:
12
MR. YOUNG:
13
MS. IAFRATE:
14
THE COURT:
EF
OG
BY MR. YOUNG:
15
MR. COMO:
16
MR. WALKER:
10
Q.
11
A.
Sure is.
16:59:19
Overruled.
DS
BY MR. YOUNG:
Q.
23
like what you're doing, then they should change the laws in
24
FR
25
16:59:34
IEN
22
Anyone else?
OF
THE COURT:
19
21
18
20
TH
17
16:59:05
16:59:48
BO
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A.
to the Supreme Court and Congress to change the laws that may
Q.
A.
14
THE COURT:
EF
OG
THE COURT:
Yes.
17:00:19
15
MR. YOUNG:
10
11
termination point?
12
MR. YOUNG:
13
How
TH
All right.
17
BY MR. YOUNG:
18
Q.
19
20
says that you remain, quote, adamant about the fact that your
DS
23
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
17:01:08
IEN
22
17:00:43
OF
16
21
17:00:33
17:01:24
A.
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MR. YOUNG:
THE COURT:
All right.
a break.
Thank you.
EF
OG
10
MR. YOUNG:
11
THE COURT:
12
13
MS. IAFRATE:
14
15
THE COURT:
16
this morning.
17
All right.
17:02:09
OF
MR. COMO:
DS
23
minutes.
THE COURT:
17:02:21
All right.
tomorrow.
24
MR. McDONALD:
25
THE COURT:
FR
IEN
22
MR. WALKER:
19
21
Mr. Walker?
18
20
17:01:58
All right.
TH
17:01:38
17:02:28
BO
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MR. McDONALD:
Thank you.
question?
THE COURT:
MR. McDONALD:
Yes.
17:02:42
area.
EF
OG
10
11
12
13
THE COURT:
17:02:58
If
15
16
17
18
20
23
24
25
FR
17:03:31
time at the end after we've heard all the facts and all the
IEN
22
DS
19
21
17:03:16
OF
TH
14
17:03:56
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contempt.
MR. McDONALD:
THE COURT:
Okay.
Thank you.
I didn't say
EF
OG
10
11
17:04:24
12
too.
13
MR. EISENBERG:
I just want to
15
TH
14
16
THE COURT:
17
MR. EISENBERG:
OF
20
Thank you.
THE COURT:
Anything else?
All right.
DS
22
24
THE COURT:
All right.
25
MR. COMO:
IEN
FR
17:04:48
anybody?
MR. YOUNG:
23
17:04:37
It will be in June.
19
18
21
17:04:11
Honor.
17:04:57
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
Mr. Walker?
BO
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MR. YOUNG:
THE COURT:
All right.
THE CLERK:
EF
OG
9
10
11
12
13
TH
14
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16
OF
17
18
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17:05:07
BO
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1
2
C E R T I F I C A T E
3
4
5
6
7
EF
OG
10
12
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14
TH
11
15
16
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2015.
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IEN
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DS
19
OF
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25
s/Gary Moll