No Chochma, No Tevuna, No Eitza

Against Hashem

Part 1 - Introduction
When I wrote the eighth Mesira post (Mesira XIII) way back in October, it seemed to me
that interest in this topic and in the Kol Koreh that triggered it is waning and there is no point
in harping on it.
As of Jan 23, I changed my mind.
Of late, I fell into being a regular listener to Headlines, the weekly radio show on current
Halachic issues operated by R. Dovid Lichtenstein. Interestingly, I first discovered Headlines
when somebody alerted me to an interview he held with Harav Dovid Cohen, Shlita on the
Kol Koreh topic on his Sept. 12, 2015 broadcast (click HERE). Therein, R. Cohen took a
very hard-lined pro-mesira stance. The implication was that Rabbi Cohen maintains that the
situation of sexual abuse is so dire that one is enjoined to immediately take the most extreme
level of action, yet it is not dire enough that one should pause and assess if this course of
action is really effective and appropriate for the case at hand.
I was extremely disturbed by this and said so on my blog (Mesira VII). I also commented
that Rabbi Cohen seems to be contradicting himself, though I did not elaborate.
This broadcast was followed on Oct. 3 by an interview with Harav Doniel Neustadt, Shlita of
Detroit. R. Neustadt seemed to be much more level-headed and reflected my position on the
issue (click HERE). Mesira is only a last resort, not a first resort.
There it remained until the Headlines broadcast on Jan. 23, 2016 (click HERE) where Rabbi
Lichtenstein interviewed Rabbi Zvi Gluck, director of Amudim, who presented some
fascinating facts and statistics many of which were not fully digested by the host. Before
this, Rabbi Lichtenstein interviewed Rabbi Nachum Eisenstein, Shlita about one aspect of the
issue: to what extent can we believe an accusation by an underage complainant? (A. Not so
fast.) After these, he replayed a portion of his Sept. 12 interview with Harav Dovid Cohen,
Shlita that clashes with the position stated by Rav Eisenstein in the name of Rav Elyashiv,
ZTL. He then tells the audience that we have heard three viewpoints and urges them to
decide for themselves (while he tips us off that we already have the psak of Rav Dovid
Cohen).
After hearing all this, I was very dismayed about how Rabbi Lichtenstein characterized the
various opinions. Even though Rav Eisenstein and Rav Cohen were certainly at odds over the
issue of believing an underage complainant, Rav Eisenstein did not really give an opinion
about mesira of proven molesters in general. If anything, he seemed to condone it. Rabbi
Gluck did not touch upon the Halachic debates. He merely discussed how serious the
situation is and voiced his support for whatever works. But he did concur with Rav

Eisensteins statement that Going to the courts is like going to Las Vegas when he said that
only 1.5 % of people reported as molesters ever go to jail.
Regardless, Rabbi Lichtenstein presented it all as some kind of a three way debate.
In the midst of all this and in the aftermath of the multitude of research that I have done on
this topic, it is clear that there are many facts and figures that have escaped the attention of all
of the contestants and is misleading the audience (and masses). I have come to fill the
blanks.
In light of this, I promptly emailed R. Dovid Lichtenstein and offered to do this via a
broadcast interview. I told him that I realize I am not a Rav, Rosh Yeshiva, Mechanech,
Askan, or head of a chesed organization. I am just a know-it-all author/blogger (just like
him). Still, he may be surprised at what I am able to contribute, especially since nobody else
he interviewed has done it so far.
He hasnt responded to my offer. Evidently, I am not worthy.
So, here I am to present some ignored, overlooked, and understated facts and figures many
of them are from the previous posts in this series - and to let us know what they are saying to
us.

Part 2 Chochma: Just the facts, maam!

Many of the facts on this list have been discussed at length in previous posts. At the end of
each one, when applicable, I will reference the post that discusses it. Before you read this list
(or after you do), it may be a good idea to review those posts and, in particular, Mesira IV:
Child Abuse and Fire, which covers the lions share of these facts.
The first group of facts are the shocking ones that were presented by R. Zvi Gluck of
Amudim in the Headlines interview on Jan. 23, 2016. Note that R. Zvi Gluck works in an
organization that helps victims:
1. 90% of abuse cases that he deals with are domestic (Class A in Mesira IV) and not
communal (or Pedophilic - Class B). (See Mesira IV)
2. A report to the authorities entails a thorough and lengthy investigation. This will
invariably eat up lots of precious time before an arrest can be considered. (Mesira VI)
3. Less than 15% of people reported to sex crimes units are ever arrested.
4. Of those arrested, less than 10% are convicted.
5. Combined together, less than 1.5% of reported offenders are convicted.
6. Many victims in their 30s and 40s are dead inside from abuse that happened to them when
they were 9 or 10.

The following come from a series of personal conversations with a close friend who I will
call R. Yom Tov (a very ehrlich Jew). Reb Yom Tov is a psychologist who specializes in
sexual deviance and works with victims and perpetrators alike:
Note The term most indicates more than 50% or, as many as not. It is not a numerical
statistic.
7. A pedophile and a sex addict are two totally different (and even opposite) creatures.
(Mesira IV)
8. Most offenders are not psychopaths and have no malicious intent. They are driven by
urges that they cannot control. (Mesira IV)
9. As such, most offenders will continue doing their deeds even after being exposed as long
as they are not thwarted from doing so. (Mesira IV)
10. However, upon being exposed, most offenders from the Orthodox community are
exceedingly cooperative to preventative and/or rehabilitative measures. (Mesira VIII Step 7)
11. Most offenders are victims of sexual abuse themselves.
12. Of the above, many never received any professional help or offers of professional help
and in some cases, they were even thwarted when they sought out help.
13. Those referred to in the above three facts are not psychopathic or inherently malicious.
14. It is not only victims that attempt suicide (with varied levels of success). Offenders are
just as miserable.
15. I had a difference of opinion with Reb Yom Tov on the following:
a. He said - The main mandate of the police (law enforcement) is to protect the
public. (Mesira IV)
b. I said - The main mandate of the police is to prosecute wrong-doers. (Mesira IV)
16. We both agreed - It is not the primary mandate of the police to assist individual victims.
(Mesira IV)
Halachic facts:
17. Mesira and Lashon Hara are two forms of malshinus. They are essentially the same thing
except that Mesira is more lethal (Lashon Hara on steroids). Consequently, the
repercussions are much more severe. (Mesira V)
18. The hetter for mesira for one who is - a public nuisance only
applies to a public nuisance (as the term indicates) and not to one who distresses an
individual. (ShuA ChM 386:12)

19. The heavenly retribution for unwarranted mesira is at least as severe as for retzicha
(homicide). (Mesira V SuA ChM 386:9)
20. It is forbidden to kill a rodef if he can be thwarted by non-lethal means (this does not
always apply to the victim - nirdaf). (Mesira VIII Rambam Rotzeach 1:13)
21. It is forbidden to apply the laws of rodef once the crime has been committed and the
threat has been neutralized. (Mesira VIII Rambam Rotzeach 1:12)
And finally a fact that is self-evident:
22. The primary mandate of the community is to protect and help victims, not to punish
offenders.
Now I think any sharp person who reads this list and internalizes it can already see the cracks
in the masonry. When we put some of these facts together, we arrive at some surprising
conclusions.
Lets discuss a few stay tuned...

Part 3 Tevuna: Lessons we learn from these

facts
Before we go on, I must reiterate that this entire series of Mesira posts is a critique of the
Kol Koreh signed by 107 American rabbanim and endorsed by Rav Dovid Cohen, Shlita and
Reb Dovid Lichtenstein that was published last August. The Kol Koreh indiscriminately
obligates any individual (i.e., not necessarily the victim) to immediately report any
reasonable suspicion of abuse directly to law enforcement, i.e., the police.
In my last post, which was meant as a preamble to this one, I indirectly referred to this Kol
Koreh and opined:
Before we do anything, we need to take a long hard look at what it is we are trying to solve,
what is causing this problem, and in what way is any specific course of action going to fix it.
Well, it just so happens that all of these points were addressed in the list of facts in Part 2 of
this essay. But we need to digest them and extract the lessons.

Lesson 1 (Facts 22, 2-6 and 11-15)

The final fact in Part 2 (Fact #22) states The primary mandate of the community is to protect
and help victims, not to punish offenders. This much is obvious. Amazingly, Facts #11-14
tell us something not as obvious: we have a secondary mandate.
Our secondary mandate is to help the offenders as well. This is because it is highly likely that
these offenders are veteran victims who never received professional help and are just as
entitled to it. This is enforced by R. Zvi Glucks Fact #6. The offender may actually be the
30-40 year old victim who has been dead inside for 20+ years because the community didnt
help him. He may have only become an offender because this is the only way for him to alert
the community that he needs help. Until now he was ignored!
Comes Harav Dovid Cohen, Shlita and announces that all offenders should be automatically
incarcerated for life!
Obviously, the secondary mandate cannot come at the expense of the primary one (thats why
its secondary). And, if necessary to protect the victims, we may even need to prosecute the
offenders. But we may be surprised at how often both mandates are attainable without
conflict. And, if so, that is where we need to be.
Fact #15 tells us that calling law enforcement will not help us achieve our secondary
mandate at all. It follows, hence, that the only purpose of reporting a molester to the police is
when it is the only effective avenue of achieving our primary mandate to protect the
victim(s).

Is it?
Well here comes R. Zvi Gluck and tells us Facts #2-5: Less than 1.5% of reported molesters
are taken off the streets! And, when they are, it is only after a long series of investigations
and prosecution. What happens in the meanwhile?
It appears that most of the time, calling law enforcement does not achieve our primary
mandate either.
Rav Nachum Eisenstein said that going to the American justice system (courts) is like going
to Las Vegas. I think the odds in Las Vegas are better.

Lesson 2 (Facts 1 and 17)

R. Zvi Glucks Fact #1 tells us 90% of abuse cases (that he deals with) are domestic. From
inside the home. Only 10% come from Rabbis, teachers, counselors, bus drivers, etc.
This means that most cases of abuse in our community are Class A (see Mesira IV). The Kol
Koreh is indiscriminate and tells us that if you are an outsider that has reasonable suspicion
that abuse is going on, the first entity to call is the police.
Why are they first?
Will this accomplish our secondary mandate? Not much hope.
Will this accomplish our primary mandate? You tell me.
I already discussed this at length in Mesira IV. Also in Mesira VI. If you are not the abuse
victim or a family member, the only complaint you can make to the police for another's
domestic crisis is for disturbing the peace. Also, for a domestic crisis that is not yours, you
cant know what kind of can of worms you may open and how much additional damage you
may cause, RL. Only a family member can file an abuse complaint in a domestic case. And
it is for them to decide if it is in their best interest to do so.
Thus, for 90% of the cases, it is hard for me to understand why any individual (i.e., one
outside the family) should have a religious obligation to call the police.
You can, however, call social services, not law enforcement. Let them call law enforcement.
This may be very effective and may not even be called mesira. But this is not what the Kol
Koreh is instructing us to do. (Note They mention Civil Authorities in the heading and
Civil Authorities at the end, but the body says Law Enforcement. These are Talmidei
Chachamim who wrote this and any Talmid Chacham knows that
.) And remember the can of worms.
There are a number of other lessons to be learned from Fact #1. One has to do with the
credibility of parents and will not be covered in this segment.
Another is relevant for when we discuss the rules of rodef (Fact #17) and

. Harav Cohen claims in his interview that mesira is universally permitted because a

molester is a

. In spite of what he claims, Rabbi Gluck tells us that 90%

of the cases are domestic and not communal. Therefore, they do not qualify as
- a public nuisance.
Lesson 3 (Facts 10 and 20)
Reb Yom Tovs Fact #10 tells us the most important and most unacknowledged chiddush of
all. (It was to express this chiddush and one other one that I asked Reb Lichtenstein to
interview me.)
It tells us that in most cases - once a molester is exposed and confronted, he can be
managed. This is most often true for the 90% family molesters because, after all, they
usually care about their family status. For the 10% Class B (communal) molesters, such as a
rebbe or the shul candy man, once he is exposed, it is quite easy to create a barrier between
him and potential victims and avoid coming into contact with him in compromising
circumstances.
What this says to us is that every molester has two phases to his career:
Phase A Before his nefarious activities become known to anybody beside the victim(s).
Phase B After he has been caught.
In other words, a Phase B molester is not the same kind of threat as a Phase A molester.
Now lets review Fact #20: It is forbidden to apply the laws of rodef once the crime has been
committed and the threat has been neutralized.
I fully recognize that Harav Dovid Cohen, Shlita works for Ohel and has seen firsthand the
devastating damage done by molesters. He says, Many rabbanim simply do not know what
molestation does Likewise, R. Zvi Gluck tells us that since Rosh Hashanah he has seen 17
self-inflicted deaths where molestation was involved. Likewise R. Dovid Lichtenstein talks
about a young man abuse survivor who was his guest who later ODed. And likewise my
Yeshiva pal signatory, who is currently a community rabbi, told me, You dont know what
its like on the front lines
All of these incidents are terrible tragedies. BUT
its pretty safe to say that all of this massive damage was perpetrated by molesters in the
Phase A stage. The people that R. Dovid Cohen wants to throw into jail forever because they
are rodfim have been exposed. They have magically become Phase B molesters.
The Halacha clearly tells us that if the damage is done and the threat is neutralized, there is
no longer any status of rodef! It doesnt matter how many lives were ruined by the candy man
in shul or the psychologist in Bensonhurst before they were discovered. We cannot mahsser
for punishment, we can only mahsser for protection. And if we can provide the protection
without mahssering, then there is no longer any Halachic justification to mahsser!

Dont forget the last part of Lesson 1 that in more than 85% of the cases, the reported
molester doesnt even get arrested.
Of course we have to do everything we can to repair the damage.

Lesson 4 (Fact 16)

Fact #16 tells us that mesira is merely an enhanced and more severe level of Lashon Hara.
We know that Lashon Hara is not always forbidden. There are times when it is permitted
(even obligatory). The primary stipulation is that it must be for a positive toelles. But we
know that this is not the sole stipulation. There are six others. And the Chofetz Chaim tells us
that, where applicable, all seven conditions must be met.
Accordingly, if basic Lashon Hara level malshinus is only permitted after meeting a set of
seven conditions, it is a kal vchomer that any hetteirim for the more severe mesira level
malshinus are subject to the same seven conditions.
After all the facts and the lessons that we have learned so far, we can examine the conditions
to see how they apply to accusations of molestation. We will do this in Part 4 (next segment).
Stay tuned...