Transcript of Initial Meeting between Matt Adams and myself.

4th
January 2017
For the purpose of the transcript I will refer to Matt as M and myself as J

Meeting begins at 1:25pm

M: Your tutor has been in touch

J: Yes
M: And thats all fine and we spoke about the module, and Ive got some paper
work thats been sent as well
J: I dont think Ive seen this paper work
M: Ah okay then, thats reassuring [opens up paperwork link on computer]
J: I dont really know what to expect from today
M: Okay thats fine, lets start with no expectations
J: Good, because an expectation is a resentment waiting to happen, I believe
M: [laughs] so this is what your tutor sent me [shows file] so this is a bit of
background, which is all fine
J: Okay, have you ever done this before?
M: Yes, a while ago but it wasnt, but the student wasnt embedded in a module,
they were embedded in the school
J: Okay
M: And I was the point of contact with her, I cant remember why, she was doing
something vaguely psychological and she did a kind of installation somewhere in
this building around facial expressions. It was really interesting, but thats it, so
not a placement within a module before. But you know, in terms of reading this
through, which I only did briefly. So were having our initial meeting right now
J: Yes we are
M: and it runs for 10 weeks
J: I believe the module runs on a Monday doesnt it? That Im going to be
involved in
M: Thats it, yeah 2 until 5
J: 2-5 okay, so I will be in that module every Monday
M: Right, okay
J: Because thats what I want to do because Im interested in the subject
M: Right
J: With regards to a project, Im not sure just yet what to propose as our seminars
around the Artist Placement Group model suggest that a project is to emerge
from the experience and are not decided at the outset
M: Oh thats good
J: As its about the process of experience
M: Good
J: When it comes into mind or when into consciousness, I will develop it from
there
M: Okay, sounds good to me
J: I am interested in the subject of mental health and I looked at GROW (for the
purpose of the transcript, GROW is a project Matt has been involved in about
nature based interventions to help people who have experienced psychological
distress) and that was really thought provoking.
M: Oh I didnt realise I sent you that
J: Well it was attached to your email
M: Great okay, did you see the video?
J: Yes I did
M: Thats kind of research I do, as part of my research, interested in mental
health and social context in natural settings
J: Yeah
M: Anyway Ill tell you a bit more about this module as we go on, so thats good I
like that as a starting point, you dont have to come in saying this is what Im
going to do because you dont know the module yet
J: No
M: and if its based on experience and so on well then you havent had the
experience yet
J: exactly and as its about process, it goes hand in hand with most of my art
practice which is process led. It isnt all about the end product but more about
the method and yes Im very excited about this.
M: Good, so what kind of art, have you got any, are you confident that the kind of
art that you practice or are involved in or want to do will fit with coming along for
10 weeks? And it being around mental health? Are you alright with that general
fit?
J: Yes well what Im currently interested in are topics around interaction, the
psyche, site specific work and as I dont really have 1 specific medium, I like to
make things, write things there isnt 1 thing that I can say will definitely come
out of this residency.
M: Brilliant
J: Art therapy is something I am interested in and I know that links to GROW and
your research as well
M: yeah
J: I have a friend who works on a mental health ward, so maybe by visiting there
and experiencing that would give me great research for the relationship between
mental health and art. At the moment Im reading The essentials of
Psychoanalysis and The Interpretations of Dreams by Freud because thats
what were about to study, and the subject of dreams is one of my favourite
topics so Im really loving the books
M: Are you?
J: Yes
M: Do you do a module on that?
J: Well we will do lecture based seminars around the ideas and concepts within
the texts so its kind of all going hand in hand this term, Im really excited
M: just out of curiosity how will those seminars around the essentials of
psychoanalysis fit, because are you doing a Fine Art degree?
J: The actual reading for the seminar is the interpretation of dreams, its just I
find this topic really very fascinating and the word psychoanalysis has been said
a few times so I wanted to do some further reading to help me understand the
material, and yes Im doing Fine Art: Critical Practice
M: Thats the name of the degree? Have you done anything in semester one
thats similar? Or grounded you?
J: Well weve looked at many different topics, whether it be the difference
between race and ethnicity, social constructs, behaviours, social and cultural
psychology and theory, weve looked at Stuart Hall the cultural theorist, we read
the cultural politics of emotion. But as I have not started the module yet, I am
not too sure
M: and Freuds got his on very unique approach to what motivates us and so on
J: Yes, so my kind of, not expectation, I need another word for expectation
M: Hope?
J: Yes my initial hope, is to come to the module, immerse myself like I would if I
were a student although my tutor briefly touched upon the fact that a placement
is not to supplement a desire to do a subject that we feel we have missed out on
in earlier years but I am kind of doing that, only because I believe this is a
thought provoking subject for me and I believe that by engaging in a subject
thats very different from my own will possibly free up my creative way of
thinking and as Im interested in it will inspire me.
M: Great
J: And I think all my modules will tie together very well and through learning
about the mind, as its a kind of personal topic for me, for us all I think that will
be another interesting factor and I have no idea where its going to go.
M: Well if youre open to that journey, for what it is and wherever it goes, then
thats good
J: And I believe you are on ResearchGate? (For the purpose of the transcript,
ResearchGate is an online platform where you can post projects and research in
the style of a blog)
M: I am indeed
J: So Ive signed up to this, because I think this would be an effective and
relevant way to document the process
M: I can follow you back on their then
J: Im not too sure how it works yet, but I will figure it out
M: Im still getting used to it, rather than just using it as a place to put my
research for people to find fairly easily and free, but you can use it for more than
that. So some of the research that Ive been working on in Portugal recently for
example, the lady who I worked with set up a project on ResearchGate, so theres
potential for you to do something like that that I can input in or you can open up
more widely, but you can explore with it. So let me write a note of that [writes
down the details for finding me on ResearchGate] Well Im really looking forward
to having you with us as an artist in residence, whatever that might mean
[laughs]
J: Yeah exactly, whatever that might mean, lets talk about reviewing because my
tutor Susan will be assessing me but I think I might be good for us to meet and
talk about where the projects going and stuff like that. What would you suggest,
because its 10 weeks?
M: Yeah so how about we meet something like week 3, 6 and 10?
J: I think 3, 6, and 9 would be a good idea, as it gives time for me to reflect.
M: So we can come up with some dates then does that sound like a good idea?
J: That sounds good
M: If you have an alternative, please do say
J: I think at the end, aside from the resolved project, I would like to do a
presentation as a form of self-evaluation that I could maybe present to you or a
seminar group? Or if I present to my course, perhaps you could come along?
M: Thats fine, theres also a couple of questions that I would like to ask you that
I have kind of formulated
J: Go on
M: 1. what do you need to get out of it?
J: an experience
M: For your module to pass the module? What is the assessment criteria? Are
there things we need to be aware of that you need to do or is it fairly open?
J: I think its fairly open, its entirely led by myself, but I will make sure to check
that as I have not yet done so
M: Okay
J: I think a lot of it is about the documentation, and this is something I am
interested in as well, its not entirely about the success of the outcome as the
APG model states, but I believe how we conclude our residency is very open,
whether we create a piece of work, hold an exhibition, formulate a presentation.
M: as long as youre okay with that, and you can talk to me about it any time
J: thank you and I will make a note to speak to Susan in the week about this
further
M: So what was the other question I had? So the module, you mentioned that you
want to treat it and for you to be treated as if you are any other student? So
what I can do is enrol you onto the module, do you use Student Central?
J: Of course
M: So you will appear on there, which means that, the way this module will work
is that there will be lectures every week followed by a workshop or a seminar
J: Okay
M: But all the stuff that goes with it will be posted on student central so the
students can access lecture slides, lecture material, for example they come up
24 hours before, if there is a seminar activity and theres reading to do then that
will be flagged up before as well and we encourage our students to access
student central as well as finding stuff out in class which kind of backs up whats
happening. Theres usually an expectation of our students to read fairly
regularly, but obviously thats not expected of you in the same way, but well
have to talk about that, but youll be able to read really, what you want and what
fits with your interests and needs to get what you want out of the module
without the same pressures as our students with assessments. That said what
else was I about to say? Ah its just escaped me? What was it?
(For the purpose of the transcript and to reflect I find this escapement of the
idea a fascinating proof of conscious and unconscious thought and to quote the
essentials of psychoanalysis a [concept] which is now present to my conscious
may become absent the next moment, and may become present again, after an
interval, unchanged, as we say from memory In what shape [the concept] may
have existed while present in the mind and latent in consciousness we have no
means of guessing The essentials of Pscho-Analysis by Sigmund Freud pg. 135)
M: [Matt tries to retrace his thought process] coming to the module, turning up,
lectures. In this module there is a 2 hour seminar every other week, so there is 6
altogether, because it is a 12 week term
J: Is this on the same day?
M: Yeah so, Ive done this because from feedback from students they either say
that they like the seminars but theyre not long enough or they dont like
seminars because theyre boring and pointless and Ive got some sympathy with
both of those views so for this module there is an hour lecture every week, the
first hour 2-3ish and then 1 week there is a what Im calling broadly a workshop,
so thats like a 3 hour session in the lecture theatre, 1 hour lecture then 2 more
hours. Well what do we do in those 2 hours? I show them a bit of film sometimes,
so in the first week for instance student will watch, do you know Stephen Fry?
J: Yes
M: Well not personally, well you might do
J+M: [laugh]
M: Hes quite a well know figure around his own experiences of bi-polar disorder
and there was a BBC documentary about a year ago and thats an hour long, its
a really interesting documentary that I will show that in class. Then this will give
you a bit of insight to where we go in the module as well maybe and what was
really interesting about that film, was the critical response it got afterwards from
clinical psychologists, commentators, some of it positive but a lot of it critical
about the way that it was depicting the nature of mental health as a medical
disease.
J: Right
M: So in the third hour, we look at some of the responses to that and discuss it as
a group, but were all in lecture theatre so it is kind of workshop groups
J: Okay
M: Now in the second week and then every other week, its a 1 hour lecture then
a 2 hour seminar where student are in smaller groups. AHH this the question that
I was going to ask you, it has come back to me [The idea resurfaced and became
present in Matts mind once again through unconscious links and association]
bare with me, where student split up into 3 seminar groups and they do more
seminar type activities and are a bit more in depth. Whether you attend a
seminar or not, is up to you. If you want to really immerse yourself in a module
then Id recommend that, I could assign you to one of the seminar groups,
theres me and 2 other tutors. But if thats not the way you want to do it, its up
to you?
J: I think I would like to do that
M: Okay so in that case, the other thing I need to do is enrol you on the module
to enrol you in a seminar group
J: does this all sound feasible?
M: Yeah absolutely if youve got the time
J: Yeah Im free Monday afternoons so it is perfect
M: Hopefully youll enjoy the ride because its an interesting module we hope
J: Yeah Im excited
M: So that reminds me, the other thing I was going to tell you, not ask you was I
dont know how much experience you have of psychology and the psychology of
mental health?
J: Hmm, Well I dont academically, but I do personally.
M: Okay not many people who it doesnt seem to affect personally, but okay
thats fine. So youll find this out in the module anyway so Im just going to flag it
up now for you is that. We call the module Psychology, Mental Health and
Distress and I do that for a reason. Most undergraduate Psychology modules
that deal with mental illness are called abnormal psychologies and they take
psychiatric classifications as their starting point, now what were doing on this
module and that reflects the nature of our school, which is a lot about critical and
social psychology historically, what were doing on this module is that were
taking a different approach and using a textbook that takes a different approach
too and were treating these kinds of experiences psychosocially rather than
from a view point from psychiatrists.
J: Okay
M: So that means were open to service user experience, so people that have
experienced mental health, their voices, um, critical community groups who
challenge psychiatric diagnosis, all that kind of approach. That you dont need to
know anything about yet because thats what were going to teach students
about. But thats the way in we take
J: Brilliant
M: So one of the most obvious ways of noticing that, is the titles of our lectures,
when you see them, so theres nowhere in a lecture title is depression
mentioned, which you might think is odd
J: Not at all, its intriguing
M: Or anxiety disorder, seeing as theyre the two most prevalent diagnoses
today. But why not? Well we do cover them but we call those sessions Sadness
or Worry
J: Oooo
M: Why do we do that?
J: Emotions
M: Exactly and thats because of a particular tradition that focuses on emotions
and peoples experiences as a starting point rather than the psychiatric
classifications as a starting point
J: I get it yes, so their normal human experience of the emotions rather than
what its been classified as, rather than the psychiatric names they are given,
got it
M: Exactly well you start to think okay what do we call them? Because of course
we know the categories exist and they can be useful
J: I like that! Its more about people than a category
M: Exactly and then we work up from there to see whether its useful and to see
what the issues are when using a diagnosis classification and so on and so forth.
But anyway I thought it was worth pointing that out
J: Yeah thats interesting and Im glad you did
M: But other than that, yeah so thats how it will work really. Youll turn up, come
to the lecture, I might say hello but youll be in with all our other students around
this cohort. Its our first cohort of single honour students who are on just a
psychology degree, they started last year, theyre now in their second year,
theres about 60-70 of them, theyll all be there together, in the lecture theatre
and as I say every other week they go off into seminar groups
J: Ill be a new person [laughs]
M: They will know each other a bit as a cohort, but lots of students wont know
each other because they wont have necessarily have worked together yet and
erm there will also be some students who are on other degrees, mainly only 1
other degree who are taking this module as an option so they will also be one of
the new people in that sense as well. So hopefully you wont feel too on the
outside.
J: No not at all, its going to be weird and fun telling people that Im from Fine Art
[laughs]
M: Well I think you should also tell people that youre an artist in residence
J: Yeah, this is the first time I will be an artist in residence
M: [laughs]
M: and when they ask what are you going to do then you can bravely say,
confidently say I dont know its about the process
J: Yeah
J+M: [laughs]
J: Its going to be fun, is this kind of youre specialism, say this module?
M: erm not really, my specialism is social psychology and theoretical approaches
to psychology but the theoretical approach were taking, Ive just talked about a
bit is one of my specialities in the background but its only recently really where
Ive been working with groups like GROW that Ive more explicitly been involved
with mental health and clinical issues.
J: Its a very stimulating topic I think
M: Yes indeed, for all sorts of reasons isnt it? And what weve touched on today
is such a growing issue isnt it? General mental health problems.
J: Ive just concluded my CBT sessions (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy)
M: Oo have you?
J: Yeah so its good to of now seen the GROW video to realise that in this day and
age it is more about interactive methods that challenge a behaviour rather than
just talking it out with a councillor
M: Were getting a couple of module experts, who we call experts from their
experience and in this case, mainly clinical psychologists this year, but also some
service users but one of the guys who is coming in, a clinical psychologist has a
lot of experience using CBT methods for different diagnoses as well. So yeah Im
sure youll find this all very interesting, from youre personal or academic
perspective and so on.
J: Yeah, one thing I wanted to mention is that my brief talks about an exchange,
so this isnt just a one way relationship where only I am gaining experience. Im
not really sure what this means and what I have to offer in exchange and what I
can bring to the course?
M: Well at the very least, what youll bring to the course and if you come to the
seminars is your voice, and your experience and your perspective as a non-
psychology student who is a human being, who has had life experiences. So
thats something to exchange?
J: and I suppose I can bring a creative perspective, which may differ from say a
psychology students academic perspective, not to generalise.
M: Yes! And you might surprise yourself, you might be the other way round, you
may be more analytical than you think. But yes absolutely, that voice, that
contribution makes it 2 way, you are a voice. But also we dont know what youre
going to end up with yet but Im sure we can find a way to share that with the
students, some documentation of your process. And this might form the thinking
about what you do, well How can what I do contribute to this group of students
or this whatever it may be?
J: Yes and I will reflect and think about that
M: But having you be there is a very good starting point isnt it?
J: Yeah, so when does it start?
M: February the 6th semester 2 starts [Matt points and refers to a wall calendar
showing the semester dates](For the purpose of the transcript, I inform Matt that
I will be absent from March 27 th- March 31st and then he informs me that this falls
outside of our 10 weeks, so my residency will not be disturbed)
M: I will send you the handbook, once I am finished with it, Im about to finish it,
but there are actually 12 teaching weeks between the first week 6 th of Feb and
the last week 22nd of March, so whether you finish early or miss a few weeks in
between, along the way because youre doing stuff on your own course Im not
sure, but there is 12 weeks of the semester.
J: So from the 6th of February to the 22nd of March
M: Then we move to Forms of Distress
J: Ahh thats a shame Im not going to be here for that, [here I spot one of the
lecture titles] MADNESS? What clinical category is MADNESS?
M: MADNESS is erm schizophrenia
J: Ah Okay
M: Bit of Bi-polar
J: So whats DISTRESS?
M: Anxiety Disorders, if you think about it you know, I start doing this now when I
talk about these with people or like you say Ive got some in my background as
well, Im trying to use the term SADNESS and WORRY rather than anxiety and
depression its really eye opening
J: So Ive just had an idea
M: Go on
J: What clinical name or category would you give HAPPINESS?
M: [laughs] erm so, normal?
J: Normal? Is it normal to be happy? And not normal to be sad? Or worried?
M: I dont know, Freud said everyday unhappiness is normal
J: Yeah exactly, so Im not sure if normal would be the clinical category for
HAPPINESS. No ones ever thought of that have they?
M: [laughs] No
J: Thought of or conducted a clinical assessment to what HAPPINESS is? Well that
would be an interesting starting point for the project
M: Yeah and what are the symptoms of HAPPINESS?
J: Laughter
M: [laughs]
M: You could do that, I think that would be good starting point
J: Yeah dont tell anyone that, thats my idea [laughs]
M: [laughs]
(For the purpose of the transcript, all conversation after this was primarily about
enrolment.
I chose to end the transcript material here, on an initial idea and starting point
for my residency)

Meeting commences at 2:05pm