Eckhart Tolle and Oprah Winfrey: A New Earth Webcast Full Text Transcript of 10-Week Online Class Webcast Podcast

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tonight, we're coming to you with a special two-hour finale of our New
Earth webcast series. For 10 weeks, we've all met every Monday night for a global conversation. It's
been really quite special. A global conversation about consciousness from the UK to Hong Kong to
Russia to all 50 states here in America. I just, again, want to say thank you to every one of you for
helping us to create this new earth here with Eckhart Tolle and with me. So many of you have written
to say that you want this forum to continue, so beginning next Monday, May 12, I hope you'll join me
for the start of my Soul Series webcast here on Oprah.com. For the first time we'll be broadcasting the
videotape sessions of my XM radio show. Many of you didn't know I have a radio show. Yeah, I have
a day job, a night job, a middle job (inaudible). It's where I get to talk to spiritual teachers, and have
been doing so for quite some time; spiritual teachers, and thinkers, and scholars about this, my favorite
subject, the evolution of our souls. So keep Mondays reserved for Oprah.com. You can begin
downloading next Monday. Tonight's the last chapter, Chapter 10 of A New Earth, and before we get
started, let's begin with silence.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Would you like to lead us, sir?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A

moment of stillness. Now, as you know, you need to put your attention somewhere in order to find the
stillness. The attention needs to move out of the dimension of thinking. So we've practiced in the past
with putting our attention into the inner feeling of aliveness in the body. We've also, I believe, put our
attention on our breath, and we've put our attention on sense perceptionswhatever we can see or hear
outside. But this time we go one step further. And I suggest, this is a little bit more subtle, as we enter
this moment of stillness, we put our attention on the fact that we are conscious. In other words, we
become aware that there is a light in us, using "light" metaphorically, a presence, a space of awareness.
That is pure attention. So instead of being aware of somethingour breath, or the inner body, or sense
perceptionslet's just be aware that we are aware. You feel your own presence and become still.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's be aware we are aware. And become still. That was good. I think
even Dean the stage manager became aware. He is aware, right, Dean? The themes of Chapter 10 are
truly the culmination, I think, of what all of our work has been about. How to bring consciousness to
every moment and to every action of our lives, and in the process learning that we are far greater than
anything that we could have imagined ourselves to be. So we're going to get started. You talk about the
brief history of your life on page 282. "The coming into manifestation of the world as its return to the
unmanifestedits expansion and contraction." On the previous page, you talked about the earth
expanding, the universe, really, expanding and contracting. "Those two movements are reflected
throughout the universe in many ways such as in the incessant expansion and contraction of your heart,
as well as in inhalation and exhalation of your breath. They are also reflected in the cycles of sleep and
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wakefulness. Each night, without knowing it," I love this, "you return to the unmanifested," capital S,
"Source of all life when you enter the stage of deep, dreamless sleep, and then reemerge again in the
morning, replenished. Those two movements, the outgoing and return, are also reflected in each
person's life cycles. Out of nowhere, so of speak, "you" suddenly appear in this world. Birth is
followed by expansion. There is not only physical growth, but growth of knowledge, activities,
possessions. This is a time where you're mainly concerned with finding or pursuing your outer
purpose. Each person's lifeeach life-form, in factrepresents a world, a unique way in which the
universe experiences itself. And when your form dissolves, a world comes to an endone of countless
worlds." I thought that was so beautiful. That's the bottom of page 283, everybody. "Each person's
lifeeach life-form, in factrepresents a world, a unique way in which the universe experiences
itself." So we are manifestations of the universe experiencing itself as each of us.
And that takes you out of this illusion that all you are is this limited little person. This ison the
surface of things you are this person with a name and a form, but in the depths of your being, you are
the universe experiencing itself in this form. And there's just this thought brings about a little shift in
the way in which you perceive yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody else.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes,
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We are the universe or the source of all life or the Creator or God,
whichever name you choose to use, expressing itself in our particular form.
In and through this form. So there's notpeople usually perceive themselves as being, "This is me and
there's the universe."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or the
world, and, "There's the me and the rest of the world." But you are the universe, you are the life, you're
one life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're not separate.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not
separate.
Copyright 2008 HARPO PRODUCTIONS INC
Page 2 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. "Each person's lifeeach life-formrepresents a world, a unique
way in which the universe experiences itself. And when your form dissolves, a world comes to an
endone of countless worlds." Wow. That's really powerful. So let's talk about the awakening and the
return movement. What is the return movement in a person's life?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):

Usually, you start off with the outward movement. As you grow up and as you go into adolescence and
adulthood, you start building your life, you acquire experiences, you acquire knowledge, you acquire
possessions. Your sphere of influence extends, so there's the expansion. You grow, and usually that
goes up to a certain age. It varies from person to person, unlessI talk about that alsounless the
spirit of expansion is interrupted by some traumatic event. We can come to that a little bit later. So
there's the expansion, and then when people reach a certain age, suddenly a different movement starts,
thinks the body is no longer as strong, not working so well anymore. People around you begin to die;
they reach a certain age. And so there's another movement that at some point comes into people's lives,
which we could call the dissolution of form. It's gradually happening. And in our culture, we don't like
to talk about that. And this is why most old people are hidden away in homes you rarely see. You have
to go to Third World countries to really see the reality of human life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What it's like to grow older.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also we have such a fear of it, and not just a fear, a disdain for it, so
we do everything to make ourselves look younger. Everything is being looking younger, being
younger. Younger, younger, younger.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now,
the return movement is also where the spiritual dimension can come into your life very strongly, when
the form with which perhaps for many years you had been identified, which is the physical form and
the form of my life or the things that you had built up and identified with, your job, your status, your
profession, your possessions. And thatwhen that begins to become a little bit shaky, then it is very
often at that point that there's the possibility for the spiritual dimension to come into your life. When
the solidity of the outer forms becomes diminished.
Page 3 of 67
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So
traditionallyand there's still thein India, for example, there's still a tradition when a man reaches a
certain age, he withdraws from society. He sometimes evensome people still practice it, but not so
many these days, he even leaves his family if he knows that his family is being looked after, he leaves
and becomes a solitary mendicant or a monk in order to go deeply within. So that'sbut you don't
need to do that. All we need to be aware is that when the return movement starts, when the forms that
you had identified with begin to break down, that is a wonderful time for going back home for the
return movement into spirituality so that you become aware of your own consciousness rather than
what consciousness had identified with that was your life before.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You mean the form.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Form,
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so it's sort of the return back to formlessness.
but consciously.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Consciously.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's the
conscious return to see where"What is the source of my very being?" You could say it'syou're
goingwhen the world begins to become shaky, then you go back to the source out of which it all
came, which is God ultimately, God within, source within. So there's these two movements in a
person's life. Now, in our civilization, the whole civilization
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): These two movements of the outgoing and the return home.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The
outgoing and the return. Now, our civilization is only interested, it seems, in the outgoing movement.
People are interested in accumulating, in building up, in creating, making a life for yourself, being
successful. Of course, that has its place. That's fine.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): What
our civilization knows very little about is the return movement.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say, "Then one day, you too disappear. Your armchair is still there.
But instead of you sitting in it, there is just an empty space. You went back to where you came from
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just a few years ago. Each person's lifeeach life-form, in factrepresents a world, a unique way in
which the universe experiences itself. And when your form dissolves, a world comes to an endone of
countless worlds. A return movement in a person's life, the weakening or dissolution of form, whether
through old age, illness, disability, loss, or some kind of personal tragedy, carries great potential for
spiritual awakening." That's why you say some older people become sort of luminescent.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Some.
And others have a resistance against the return movement. The ego identifies with the weakening
body, for example. And so negative inner states arise. People become angry, or bitter, or complain all
the time, or talk about the past all the time. They resist what's happening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, because they can't acceptthey can't accept, which we're going to
talk about those three modalities: acceptance, enjoyment and enthusiasm.
yes. So here comes the acceptance ofwhen old age approachesthe acceptance that this can be also
very beautiful if you're open to that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say, "Because in old age, the emphasis," the top of 286, everybody.
"Because in old age, the emphasis shifts from doing to Being, and our civilization, which is lost in
doing, knows nothing of Being. It asks: Being? What do you do with that?" What do you do with it;
Being? Yeah. But the older you get, the more conscious you become that Being is of more value to you
than doing.

Doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the whole point of A New Earth is for everybody to realizeno
matter what age you arethat being is of more value to us than doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that it's only the being that you bring into your doing that matters.
Page 5 of 67
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And
you don't have to wait for old age for this to happen. You can become conscious of this at any age, and
then the way in which you interact with the world is very different.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. 287, "When the ego is no longer identified with the return
movement in a person's life, old age or approaching death becomes what it's meant to be: an opening
into the realm of spirit." And many times, obviously, you don't have to approach death in order to open
into the realm of spirit as so many of you have told us in your message boards that this whole book is
about opening to the realm of spirit. Okay. You say in A New Earth, "On the new earth, old age will be
universally recognized and highly valued as a time for the flowering of consciousness."
In a way, we lost it because that was already there in ancient cultures where old age was greatly
honored. For example, in the Native American culture, a grandmother iswhen somebody's called a
grandmother, it's a title of great distinction, and everybody has great respect for the grandmother
because the grandmother embodies that wisdom. Not only wisdom, she also embodied the opening into
the realm of spirit. The elder of a tribe, for example, they embody the opening into the realm of spirit,
and through those old people, everybody can contact that realm, so it's very vital to have that. We lost
it, and now we're going to find that again where old age is honored rather than looked down upon. So
there's the grandmother, and I mention in the book, you have the grandmother of the Native American.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the first (inaudible).
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In our
civilization, you have the granny.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They
say the granny at best is cute.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But
there's no depth to that.
Page 6 of 67
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): To
how we perceive it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because we don't honor.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No.
That dimension has virtually disappeared from our civilizationthe dimension of depth, the dimension
of spirit, the dimension of the sacred, which is so vital for human life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what kind of effect does that have on us, not honoring that age and
that which is sacred within the age and the depth of that? What kind of effect does that have on us?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well,
it means the whole dimension of spirit which is there is lost, so we all our life become completely
superficial, and when life becomes completely superficial, you identify it with the surface movement
of your life. And because of that lack of depth, people become very unhappy because there's only
these, the surface of their life, possessions, achieving this or that, getting recognition.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And role-playing.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Role
playing, ego.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also what you call on page 289, I like this, "intelligent stupidity."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Intelligent stupidity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tell us what you mean by that.
thean example I give is you need great intelligence to split the atom; to do that. But then what do we
do with that? We create awe make an atom bomb, a destructive weapon out of something that could
be a wonderful thing. So, on the one hand, humans seem very intelligent, and then what they do with
that intelligence very often is extremely stupid. It becomes destructive
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Because that's where intelligent stupidity comes in.
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yes. And that's because the dimension of spirit is missing. Intelligence that is not connected to the
deeper dimension of awareness, of spirit, whatever you want to call it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And being.
Is very destructive.

Sooner or later, it becomes destructive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. I love what you say on page 290. This isyou know, I've read the
book now several times. That's why this should be your new summer read, everybody, because when
you go back and read it again, you will find things that you didn't experience the first time.

That'srepeated reading is very helpful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or a second time.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or the third time. This is what I got the otherjust yesterday I was
reading it once again, this chapter. "Struggle or stress is a sign that the ego has returned, as are negative
reactions when we encounter obstacles." So whenever you encounter obstacles in your life, it is
because your ego is forefront; at the forefront.
It doesn't mean that you don't encounter challenges in your life.

But to make them intoif you consider a challenge an obstacle that you need to fight against, that
means the ego is there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. This is 290. "The force behind the ego's wanting creates
'enemies,' that is to say, reaction in the form of an opposing force equal in intensity." That's what an
enemy is. "The stronger the ego, the stronger the sense of separateness between people. The only
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action," this is one of my favorite quotes. I love this. "The only," see, I've underlined it three times.
"The only actions that do not cause opposing reactions are those that are aimed at the good of all."
So you no longer separate yourself and say, "This is my." You consider in whatever you do, you
consider the totality or the whole, not just my little needs. "But how do I fit into the totality?" And so
then this is notno longer karmic action which produces suffering.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. "We are also learning that action, although necessary, is only a
secondary factor in manifesting our external reality. The primary factor in creation is consciousness.
No matter how active we are," I love this, "how much effort we make, our state of consciousness
creates our world, and if there's no change on that inner level, no amount of action will make any
difference."
In other words, what you do is always secondary. Who you are is primary. And that means not who
you are in the eyes of the world or who you are in whatever image you might have about yourself, but
whether you are connected within yourself, with that dimension of being, spirit, or consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say it beautifully 294, it's "not what you do, but how you do what
you do determines whether you are fulfilling your destiny."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not what you do, but how you do it. And by that you mean the
amount of presence or consciousness you bring to whatever you do.
Another aspect of that is whether whatever you are doing at any given moment, even the most, what
the mind would say, "Some insignificant thing, are you doing it in presence or is it just a means to an
end because you want to get to some future moment?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Just a
simple example you could give. You can go to a restaurant and the way in which the waiter puts the
plate on your table can be present and conscious, and immediately you will be affected by that.
Sometimes, it happens that you have a waiter who is conscious.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right.
Page 9 of 67
with care and attention he or she puts the table there, the plate in front of you.
you can sense a very different energy from a waiter who is just doing his or her job.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely.
he just puts it down.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's in every aspect.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's going through the toll booth; that's picking up your laundry.

Everything.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's standing in line for french fries. That's everything.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People either bring their presence or they don't.
often, it's a useful thing to remember to check inside yourself to see whether you are making whatever
you are doing at this moment, whether it's primarily a means to an end because you want to get
somewhere else through what you are doing, or whether you are you giving it your fullest attention.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think you're going to have a generation of children growing up with
unconscious parents because I recognize this with myself. I've been guilty of it. Since the BlackBerrys.
Page 10 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you're riding in a car with friends or you're any place with friends,
everybody, instead of talking now, everybody's on their BlackBerrys to see who else is calling.
I've been wondering what they are doing when they go like that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, this is where everybody's writing everybody. You'reinstead of
talking to the people who are there with you, you're writing to the people who are not there to see what
they have to say. That's what everybody's doing.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh

yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And many times, people are now on their cell phones or they're on their
BlackBerrys, and their kids are coming into the room, and nobody even looks up.
you're not experiencing reality that is around you. You're not experiencing the fullness of life around
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is correct.
what you are experiencing is a mental abstraction which is little letters that you're putting in there.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's
just mental abstraction. You're not even communicating truly with the person that you're sending the
message to because the communication is two or three times removed. You're just sending little ciphers
to them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Well, we're going to get into the three modalities of awakening
where you say that unless you are at any given time having acceptance, enjoyment or enthusiasm for
whatever you're doing, you should stop doing it. Because if you're not accepting the moment, enjoying
the moment or having enthusiasm for the moment, then you are in one way or another causing
suffering.
it's a dysfunctionalyour inner dysfunctional state. You're not aligned with the present moment,
you're not aligned with yourself, you're not aligned with life. Completely dysfunctional, and then you
Page 11 of 67
generate psychic disharmony around you, you make yourself unhappy. Already you're unhappy when
you're
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, cause you can't accept the present moment.
the unhappiness spreads because when you're unhappy, others around you, you make them unhappy
too. It spreads like a disease.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I think, you know, as we here are already in Chapter 10, one of the
biggest issues that I've heard so many people talk about, and last week a friend of mine started e-
mailing me saying that how, you know, that she was following the classes and that it's very easy to
have this resonate with you, but then when you have to go out into the world and actually deal with
people, then it starts to get difficult. And that friend is Skyping us today who is an actress, who played
my daughter in the movie Beloved.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. She's my baby girl. Kimberly Elise played my baby girl. Hello,
Kimberly.
KIMBERLY ELISE: Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Who's been reading the book? Kimberly's been reading the book and
following the webcasts. And we were, I was trying to e-mail back and forth explaining this in e-mail
and as Eckhart says, e-mails are, you know, not a full form of communication when you're trying to
express these ideas. So go at it, Kimberly.
KIMBERLY ELISE: Okay. So yes, as I was telling Oprah, it's been really exciting and enlightening to
discuss in theory all the different concepts and ideas in the book. And it's been attainable here in this
loving cocoon which I live in and my book club members live in. But once you go out into the real
world and have real-life situations, you're presented with challenges because not everybody's read the
book; not everybody's on this journey; not everybody is striving to evolve or have awareness. A simple
example, one of the book club members works for a very egotistical boss and is very sort of pushed
and has unrealistic demands put upon her, and she's managed to sort of pull herself above it, become
witness to the ego she's dealing with and the ego within herself. And, as a consequence, she's been
perceived as sort of lax and dispassionate and disengaged in everything that's going around because
everybody else is so in the drama, and she feels her job could be at stake because she's being viewed
this way. That's just an example. So, my question is, if we're in the process of evolving our state of
consciousness, moving away from our egos and getting closer to our true selves, how do we manage,
how, how, how do we manage to maintain this level of elevation when you're forced in the real world
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to live and work with people who come from a strictly egotistical place and don't understand this
awareness level and really can perceive you as being weak?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good questions. Good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, let's see what Eckhart has to say.
KIMBERLY ELISE: Okay.

youwe are gradually learning to live from a different state of consciousness. Now, you cannot expect
to be necessarily to be a master when you meet difficult people and already to be fully in that state of
presence. It's a gradual process where you bring presence into your life. And as you invite presence
into your life, and at first don't evendon't even practice with the difficult boss, leave him alone for a
while, first you invite presence into your life with small things. When you're at home, one little
movement, making tea, makingopening the curtains as you get up, looking out of the window
without any judgment. Just perceiving the light, the clouds. Bring, as much as possible, presence into
your life in simple situations. When you get into your car, you get in, close the door. Be quiet for 20
seconds, 30 seconds. Feel the inner body. Many opportunities are there. Whenever you're waiting, I
talk about that in both books, I believe, whenever you're waiting for something or someone, drop the
waiting and be present, be fully there, fully alert, fully accepting of that moment rather than wanting
some other moment. And, gradually, you grow in presence power; a presence power grows in you.
And whenas presence power grows in you, you can begin to apply it to slightly challenging
situations which normally would have triggered, for example, some slight irritation. And there you can
observe, "Oh, there's the old reaction" as you're waiting in line at the supermarket. And you can see the
irritation with the cashier or whoever is there ahead of you. You can immediately be aware of that and
see, well, what'sit has no useful function. "It does nothing except make me unhappy." You can then
let go of it and be clear and free and present at that moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I think too, Kim, that one of the things that we all want when you
read this and you feel so great, it's like sort of being, you know, when you feel so enthusiastic and you
want everybody to get it as you get it, it's like developing spiritual muscle.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like developing spiritual muscle. You can't go out and lift, you
know, the 50-pound weight unless you've also lifted the 25-pound weight and the 10-pound weight.
And so you have to start developing the muscle with things that you are more comfortable with, and
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once you've developed a strong enough muscle, the bosses becomethe unruly bosses become easier
to handle. In the beginning, you just can't say, "I'm going to go out, I'm going to apply this principle
and expect it to work" because you have to have the inner strength in which to deal with it. And also it
comes from a greater awareness, I think, having had unruly bosses in my early years. It comes from a
greater awareness of what your real purpose in life is. I remember being in Baltimore in the early days
of my career, having a boss who was a complete jerk, who was just a complete jerk. I would like to use
another word for it, but I'll just leave it
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of

course, that's not his true self, but that's all just heavy overlay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Having a boss whose true self was love and innocence and had a
wonderful presence, but he
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Heavy
overlay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Heavy overlay was the ego self that he showed daily was a complete
jerk. Something inside me knew I wasn't going to be there forever.
KIMBERLY ELISE: Ah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I knew that I could tolerate it, I could deal with it, I could handle it, I
could, you know, my place in it was notI knew he ultimately had no power over me, that I needed to
do what was necessary for this particular time in my life. But inside myself I knew. Trouble don't last
always. And I will not, this is not going to be the course of my life.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This
too will pass.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This too will pass. I knew that this too will pass. And so I could go into
the space every day doing what needed to be done, as perhaps maybe your friend needs to do. Doing
what needs to be done and could do the thing that everybody else couldn't understand. I could offer,
give that person what they thought they needed. I could give themI could create the space for them
to be an evento show themselves to be whoever their ego at that particular time, you know, wanted
to be. You see what I'm saying?
KIMBERLY ELISE: I do. I do. So as you're at that higher level of awareness, you're able to look at a
situation and see it as just a situation, but not your entire life, your entire future.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not my entirenot your entire life because that person, ultimately, I
knew, "I'm going to be here for a time. I need to learn this much here, and then I'm going to be gone."
Page 14 of 67
KIMBERLY ELISE: And do you believe that there are just some people in this lifetime who will not
get to this level of awareness? And that you just really have to focus on yourself. And
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but that's what I said to you. That's what I was saying to you in
the e-mail. That's not your job to worry about what other people are going to do. Your only role is to
concern yourself with yourself. Isn't that true?
oh, yes, yes, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, in
one thing, as we said, and Oprah called it "spiritual muscle," and I called it "growing in presence
power," it's the same thing, so presence builds up gradually.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In the
meantime, you can still practice even in difficult situations. It might sometimes work even if the
spiritual muscle is not yet highly developed. If you can remember just the little pointer, the little
phrase, "Am I able to accept this moment as it is?" And if moment comes in the form of this obnoxious
person, then the question is, "Can I accept this obnoxious person at this moment?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Can I accept this obnoxious person at this moment?"

Because whatever arises in the present moment, "Can I be the space for this?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And if you're able to remove your ego from it, if you're able to
take your ego out of it, then it becomes just what it is.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What you were saying, Kim, it becomes just another situation. If you
can take your ego out of it, or your friend take the ego out of it, so it's not personal.
Page 15 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not personal at all.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That's what I learned how to do.
KIMBERLY ELISE: So we can really take these opportunities that are so challenging as little gifts and
opportunities to grow ourselves.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not only that, it is the truethat is the spiritual path. You know, we had
talked at a previous class about how everybody has their cross to bear, and the truth is that when you
confront an obnoxious boss or in difficult situations, therein lies your opportunity to build the spiritual
muscle.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To build, or create, or allow presence to come through in a way that you
get to show who you are instead of being worried about what the other person is doing.

difficult people or ego-controlled people have a very important spiritual function in this world.
Eventually, they will become so unhappy that will also go beyond that. But in the meantime, they are
there foras practice material for others.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because if everything was wonderful all the time, you
would have no practice, no way to practice.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There
would be no growth.
KIMBERLY ELISE: That's a good way to look at it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hey, I love your house, Kim; I hadn't seen your new house. How nice.
KIMBERLY ELISE: No, I know you haven't. See my dog?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, my gosh, you have a dog and a fireplace. Very cool.
Page 16 of 67
KIMBERLY ELISE: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very cool, BG. Talk to you soon.
KIMBERLY ELISE: Bye.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bye-
bye.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bye. Very nice. Interesting about the practicing of the spiritual muscle.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, notice when I was calling my former boss a jerk, and you said,
"That's not who he is." Do you never encounter obnoxious people in your life?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh,
no, you do, I encounter obnoxious people. It's a question of looking
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Do you have only love for them?
necessarily, no, no.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, good. Okay. But it's a question of what did you say?

whether one is able to look through this overlay of ego or heavy pain-body, which can be very strong,
whether you're able to go through that, and it's very hard to describe this process. When you are not
judging the person mentally, not calling him or her anything, you still know that this person is
obnoxious, you know that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You
know still know that this person is controlled by the ego. You know it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Even
without formulating a concept in your mind.
Page 17 of 67
sobut you also know that beyond there there's a being.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That
is pure and innocent and as close to God as anybody.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As anybody. Okay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So is

it possible to look through the ego in others?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but, Eckhart, you still don't have to want to deal with that person.
You may want to remove yourself.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And if
youif that is possible, then that often is the best thing to do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because you can still say, "I can bless you in your
beingness."
and
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "But what you're showing me now is not what I want to deal with."
Or you can walk out of a job if it's insane.
environment is insane and the more present you are, the more certain you will be.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): About what to do.
Page 18 of 67
what to do.
theand we talked about this in one of the sessions, the realization of what you have to do comes from
a powerful but peaceful place if you are present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, that's right.

when you're walking out of the office, you're not walking out in anger when it comes through presence.
You're walking out, you're peaceful with everyone and say, "That's it; I'm walking out of here."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's it.

There's power but no negativity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, I got that. I got that.
so that's beautiful when that happens.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When to say, "I have had enough."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I have had enough." And that comes from your inner purpose.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As opposed to your outer.
Page 19 of 67
Now, there may be other situations when you're forced, for some reason you are forced intonow, an
extreme example is that you're in an elevator and the elevator gets stuck.
there you are with an obnoxious person for one hour in the elevator or some people are stuck with
somebody for some reason, they can't go, leave the situation, you may be in the presence of
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or lots of people learn they have to keep jobs.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where they are dealing with bosses who are obnoxious.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, as we just heard Kimberly say.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You have to keep a job; you have to earn a living for yourself and your
family.
and there's a question of accepting that this is where this person is at without getting into reactivity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And resisting it.

Resisting it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I did it the right way.
Page 20 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because I was in that situation for quite a long time.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And literally wouldjust accepted it. And I would have friends say,
"How can you put up with that? How can you tolerate that?" Because I know this too shall pass.
Trouble doesn't last always. I won't be here forever.

Intuitively you did that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Intuitively I knew that I wasn't going to be there forever.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I
remember the same reading your friend Maria Shriver wrote a book, and she describes her early, some
of her early bossesdreadful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, yes.
somehow she was able to just say, "That's how it is." She also knew she going to be there for the rest of
her life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wasn't going to be there forever.
for the time being, she kind of (inaudible) accepted
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is what I need to do.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Kippy is an American who teaches gifted students at an
elementary school on a U.S. Air Force base outside Tokyo, Japan, and she's Skyping us from her home
office with a reading group she started after hearing about our Web classes. Is ithow do you say
hello in Japanese? Is it konichiwa?
GROUP: Konichiwa.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Konichiwa.
Page 21 of 67
Konichiwa.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Konichiwa. And the same to you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Moshi
moshi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Moshi moshi.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Only
on the telephone.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Kippy, let's start with you. What is your question?
KIPPY: Okay. Eckhart, on page 301, you wrote, "Enthusiasm means there's a deep enjoyment at what
you do, plus the added element of a goal or vision that you work toward." My question is, is how can
we have goals or visions if we are to always remain in the present?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good question.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good,
yes.
KIPPY: Thank you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the
goal or vision when it's inside you as if it were already a reality and in fact on some level it is a reality
inside you already. So a goal that is powerful when you are in touch with your own power is not a goal
that you project yourself mentally to and say, "I would like to achieve this or that at some future point,
I need that, I want that to complete myself." You're reaching out toward that goal; you're losing
yourself; you're not present. But if you areif you realize that whatever vision you hold is already a
reality inside you, I give an example now in The Power of Now, before I ever wrote the book, I had this
vision of that that book was already on some level already there, had already been written. And so I
felt all I'm doing is I'm externalizing what's already there. I had this strong inner feeling that the book
already exists inside me. I saw it as a reality already. I didn't try to achieve writing a book. The book
was already there, and all then I had to do was be open to this energy movement coming from within,
to manifest what was already there on a deeper level. And that's why Jesus said whenever you asked
for anything, "Believe that you already have received it, and it will be yours." So if you believe that
Page 22 of 67
you already have received it, it means it must bealready be a reality inside yourself so you're not
coming from lack or scarcity or neediness because then you are not, there's no power behind your
vision or your goal. You're already coming from fullness. So the goal is already a reality inside. You
already feel as if you had it.
already a reality and what you feel about it is the fullness that is already there in the present moment.
And then you don't lose yourself, then you are fully there as you begin to respond to this inner impulse,
you manifest it in your life in the present moment. So it's not a future thing really. A powerful goal
when you visualize, a powerful goalyou're not visualizing in order to achieve something in the
future, you're visualizing in order to bring something out that's already inside you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. That's powerful, but I can understand why a lot of people would
be confused by it because then how do you ever achieve anything in the future? Isn't that what you're
saying too, Kippy?
KIPPY: Right. Right.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How do you ever achieve anything in the future? Say, I want to be an
actress. There are a lot of people I know at the Bodhi Tree who we're going to, you know, talk to later.
A lot of people at the Bodhi Tree who, you know, have day jobs, but what they really wantI want to
be an actress. That's a future goal, I want to be an actor or actress, or I want to get a job working for,
you know, a major corporation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How do you, you know, how can you not hold that as a vision for
yourself?
can. But what you're visualizing is not yourself in some future state, the power that is there inside you
that will manifest externally in time and in the future is already there. Get in touch with the power.
What would it feel like if you were an actress already successful? What does that feel like inside you?
And where does the power come from with which you can make a difference in people's lives when
you are doing something like that? Where does the power reside?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, because you say, instead of saying "I want to be a great actress" is
"How do I use this talent to manifest in such a way that causes people to feel a certain way?"
yes.
Page 23 of 67
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it's
already a reality inside you, and then you can take steps toward implementing that. But it comes from
fullness rather than neediness. The mistake is not finding the place of power that is in the present
moment, and believing that something else that is not in the present moment is going to bring you to
the place of power.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It

won't.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I just got it, Kippy. I just got it. What, whatI just go it. What
he's saying is, is that whatever goal that you have or vision that you have must come from the place of
being or consciousness. And if it comes from a place of being or consciousness and not as an external
goal that you have for yourself, I think I'm getting it right, right? If it comes from being or
consciousness, then it comes through you out into the world instead of you reaching out into the world
saying, "This is what I want for myself." And so all thingsand I can use the example of myself. I
have always wanted to do exactly what I'm doing here with all of you tonight. I've always felt that deep
inside me this is what I was meant to do. I was meant to be a teacher, I was meant to use television as a
platform for helping people to better know themselves. And whenand knowing that, knowing that
deep inside myself is what has helped bring this into fruition this way, instead of saying, you know,
"One day I want to have a webcast and have a million people on the webcast." Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see what I'm saying?
KIPPY: I do, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That it comes from the inner part of you. There's a feeling that comes
from the consciousness part of yourself, the being of yourself that says, "This is what I now need to
do." And that's why you were saying it doesn't matter what you do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's how you do what you do. And it doesn't matter what you do,
everything that you do has to be fueled by consciousness or the spirit of God, which is another way of
saying it, by consciousness or the spirit of God, otherwise, it has no real meaning in your life.
Page 24 of 67
And the place of power is in the present moment. That's a vital thing is you can only touch that power
in the present moment.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if

you're not
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so you said last week it's about this step, the step today that it takes
to get to the next step, then the next step, and the next step, and the next step.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't get there by thinking, let me, you know.
And even if you're doing something at the moment that life has given you that doesn't seem to be part
of your vision.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your vision.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Let's
say you're working in a restaurant but your vision is being a great artist.

Manifest, yeah. You still need to honor whatever it is that you're doing at this moment fully and
completely.

Because it may, some way it may arise out of that. That may also be part of it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because every step leads you to the direction. It's the means
and not the end that counts.
yes.
Page 25 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's the means and not the end.
excellent.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You follow that, right, Kip?
KIPPY: I do, thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Anybody else want to say anything there? Hi, ladies.
GROUP: Hi, Oprah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What time is it in Tokyo right now? Is it another day already?
KIPPY: It's already, yes. We are living on Tuesday.
FEMALE: 10, yeah.
KIPPY: Tuesday morning.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, Tuesday.
KIPPY: 10:45.
so in Tokyo it's tomorrow, it's not the now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, does Tokyo
KIPPY: Yes (inaudible).
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eckhart made a funny.
KIPPY: And you'll have beautiful weather tomorrow.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, okay. Tokyo, it's tomorrow, it's not now. All right. Thank you guys
so much.
GROUP: Thank you.
Page 26 of 67
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow, that's interesting because everything always come back to that
same point of whatever sense of presence, or being, Holy Spirit, spirit of God, whatever you choose to
call it, namebecause "it" doesn't have an ego so it doesn't get hung up on what it's being calledthat
when you bring that into your life, it fuels everything that you do. And as you said last week, the
evolutionary impulse of the universe rises up to meet you.
yes, yes. And so the question to ask yourself, it's a very simple question, "Am I okay with the present
moment?" You need to be deeply okay with the present moment to find the power of the present
moment, which is your own power or the power of the universe or the power of God. "Am I okay?" If
you're not okay with the present moment, let's say you work in a restaurant, but while you're working
in a restaurant, you would rather be somewhere else, you're not empowered. You're only empowered
that even while you're working in the restaurant, and for some people that's their life purpose to work
in a restaurant and to spread that presence through whatever they do, people they meet there, and that's
beautiful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And what you're saying in this book is is that whatever you do,
wherever you do, whatever you do can have deep meaning and purpose to it, and for the rest of the
world if you bring your presence to it.
yes, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And we all have encountered that, the difference between people
whether it's a waiter or the toll booth operator or, you know.
yes. In all this.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In every one of our life circumstances. Okay, Elzbieta is joining us from
Poland. Did I pronounce your name correctly tonight?
ELZBIETA: Very well, yes, Elzbieta. Hello.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Elzbieta. Where she's been down loading all of the webcasts. Hello?
Is it (inaudible)? Hello?
ELZBIETA: Can you hear me?
Page 27 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yes, I can.
ELZBIETA: Oh fantastic. I want to thank you both for this extraordinary webcast, the greatest book
club I've ever seen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. What's your question?
ELZBIETA: I'd like to ask Eckhart to comment on a certain quote from a philosopher Alan Watts, if I
may.
please, go ahead.
ELZBIETA: Later I will also have a question, if possible.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go ahead, okay, go ahead.
ELZBIETA: There's a second pause, that's why it's a little strange. So the quote is from the book On
the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are. "The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the
taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate,
independent, and isolated ego." Could you please comment on that?
the taboo is not a taboo that'sit's not called a taboo, but our civilization is ignorant of that dimension,
and our civilization, to a large extent, is still run by the ego. And the ego does not want to know about
the deeper dimension of spirit; it feels threatened by that. The ego likes, perhaps to have an ideology
and call that spiritual, it has a rigid belief system and says that is spiritual and identifies with that and
calls other people "enemies" or "evil" who don't agree with that belief system. Butso the ego feels
threatened by the spiritual dimension within the human being. And it will do unconsciously anything to
sabotage the arising of the spiritual dimension in our culture, in civilization, or in human beings. And
so you see these are unconscious reactions. Some people say that what we're doing is evil. These are
unconscious reactions, again, by the ego to protect itself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. You mean some people say what we're doing here is evil.
Page 28 of 67
theI don't know how it is possible because bringing people to greater presence and peaceful way to
live, how that can be evil, I don't know, but somehow they work it out in their minds
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That this is evil.
so this isit's an unspoken taboo. There are no laws against spirituality but the taboo is unspoken. It's
underneath the surface of things and the taboo has been created by the egoic civilizations that we
inhabit.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you.
ELZBIETA: Yes, that's very clear to me too, but I think that even though I don't know what'swrote, I
don't know, 30, 40 years ago, it still rings true, unfortunately. So my question actually is for those who
misinterpret your teachings, could you clarify, do you consider your teachings to be a religion?

Certainly not. It's not a religion, it is spiritual, which means this teachingthe truth of it can be applied
within any religion or within no religion. The teaching is in essence spiritual, it's not based on belief
systems, it's not based on thoughts, it's based on becoming present and still, and whether you are
Muslim, or Christian, or Buddhist, or
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Atheist.

Atheist, it can be applied in your life. The transformation of consciousness does not depend on your
belief system. But it is possible, of course, if you have a rigid belief system, it can stop you fromthe
belief system can sabotage a transformation. But it does not dependthe transformation does not
depend on whatever belief system you have. Certain belief systems are so rigid that they represent a
barrier.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What do you say to those people though? I mean, I think that was one of
the questions that somebody has tonight about other people who think that what you have written and
what we have done here in communicating with people around the world about what you've written is
evil. What do you say to that?
Page 29 of 67
probably most of them have never looked at the book.
many of them probably have never listened in to the webcast.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So,
because if they truly read a few pages in the book, they would see that there's absolutely nothing that
would be interpreted as evil.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As evil. As evil. Thank you, Elzbieta, thank you so much.
ELZBIETA: I agree absolutely. Oprah, can I also share an aha! moment?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sure, please. Show an aha! Share an aha!, yeah.
please.
ELZBIETA: That would go back to the first chapter on page 12 where Eckhart writes about, "Fear,
greed, or the desire for power are not the dysfunction but are created by the dysfunction, which is a
deep-seated collective delusion that lies within the mind of each human being," end of quote. I think
that this is, well, there's lots of great stuff in the book and there's an aha! almost on every page, but this
one is very important I think because it seems to me, seeing through the delusion can only, when we
can see through the delusion can we be really free of fear, greed, and desire for power, which we all
share I'm afraid.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Elzbieta, thank you for sharing that all the way from Poland
tonight. Thank you so much.
you. Thank you very much.
ELZBIETA: Thank you so much.
you.
Page 30 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Beth from Green Bay, Wisconsin, sent in an e-mail that
caught my attention a few weeks back. I thought it would be great to Skype with her for this last
chapter. Hi, Beth.
BETH: Hi, Oprah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi.
BETH: Hi, Eckhart.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Why don't you read us your e-mail?
BETH: Okay. Okay, I e-mailed in, "I've been working on 'this too shall pass,' and I've noticed it's much
easier to accept this in my own life situation than it is for the world's life situation. For example, I can't
be cavalier about teenagers beating each other for video content on the internet. I can't condone 13-
year-old girls having spiritual weddings to much older men, and I cannot just accept that human beings
will be tortured and killed for having a different religion, nationality or skin color. Why is it so much
easier to say that's no big deal for me than it is for rest of the world? Why can't I let go of this global
anger?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You have global anger.
a good word.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a good word for it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Many
people have that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But I was going to say you're going to be angry for a very long time if
you're going to carry that around, but go ahead.

have you already dropped anger on a personal level in your own life, being angry at people around you
that you experience personally?
BETH: Very rarely do I get angry at anyone else anymore. Mostly it's my kids, but that's just part of
their growing up. I'm able to see that why they're doing what they're doing.
Page 31 of 67
BETH: And have some compassion for them. It's just on a larger scale.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ah,
okay, yes, compassion there's an important word. I also noticed in your question you used the word
"condone," which perhaps may be synonymous in your mind with acceptance. Condone means to say
it's okay to behave in such a way, and this is not what acceptance is about. Acceptance is to see, to
simply see what is and to say, "This is what is right now. This is how these humans behave; this is
what they're doing right now. This is what is." And no matter what you think or whathow will you
judge that, you cannot argue with the fact that this is what is. And that's all acceptance is. It doesn't
mean, "It's okay. I condone it. There's nothing wrong with it." It's to come to an inner acceptance of the
is-ness of life right now. And then you can look and then you can see once you come to an acceptance
of what is, you also see that yes, it is mad. You can see it is mad. You can come to a place of
compassion when you see that all these people are unconscious; they don't know what they are doing.
And then you can see evil. I mean, there's vast amounts of evil still happening on the planet which
means suffering that humans inflicting on other humans, on other life forms, on the planet itself, on
nature. All that you can see as manifestations of ignorance; spiritual ignorance, unconsciousness, ego,
collective ego. And so once you see that, you can come to a place of compassion for those people who
are still controlled by ego and who are acting unconsciously.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also doesn't it come to that phrase about accepting the things you
cannot change, changing the things you can, and having the wisdom to know the difference? And the
truth of everything that we've been saying in these past two weeks, Beth, for you and everyone else, is
that you begin to change the world by first changing yourself. And so the angerall of us are putting
energy into the world. All of us are putting energy out into the world, and you raise the level of
consciousness when you bring consciousness and presence to whatever it is you do. That's how you
begin to change the world. In your home, right nowwhat room are you in right now?
BETH: This is the spare bedroom. We call it the home office.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, in your home office with your children and your actions every
day, being less angry in your personal life really helps defuse it in the rest of the world.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And people don't see that as a big deal, but if everybody did that, it
would be diminished.
You're connected on an unseen level with all other humans.
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whatever energy you put out contributes to that particular vibration in the collective energy field of
humanity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct.

you're putting out anger, then that connects with all the collective anger that is floating around on the
planet, which is vast. It connects and feeds the collective anger.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And so isn't each of usisn't it for each of us, we're asked to do
that which we can do. I mean I feel this every time I go to Africa that it's really easy to get
overwhelmed by all of the massive problems, you know, encountered in that country. You can get
easily overwhelmed, and so the thing to do is to focus on that which you can change, that which you
can have some impact on, and do that as well as you can.

One little thing perhaps, one thing that might seem insignificant, and you can make a change there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But everything is significant depending on what presence you bring to
it.
right, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Beth, I hear you've made some big changes since reading A New Earth,
tell us about them.
BETH: Oh yes. Actually, I picked up A New Earth after my grandmother passed away in January. But
some things have been happening along the line that I didn't really understand what was going on. I left
a job that wasn't that good for me in November, I was able to spend more time with my grandmother,
and we both prepared ourselves for her passing. I quit smoking. I started running. I eat healthy foods.
It'sI'm not even sure who I am anymore.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's a good thing.
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BETH: Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a good thing. But I think the key word here is what Eckhart had
said earlier; accepting what is going on in the world isn't the same thing as condoning it. Because there
are a lot of terrible things going on in the world.
BETH: No, I know. And I don't know if it's because I've been a mom for so long, it's just I want to put
myself maybe as a shield in front of some of these people to offer them some protection. And I don't
know if that's my own ego, but it doesn't feel like it's my ego. It's like, you know, "You people don't
deserve this. You deserve to have a better life. You're 13, 14 years old. It's not time for you to have a
baby."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you talking about the polygamist story on the news?
BETH: Yeah, yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Okay. That's none of your business right now. What's your
business is what's going on in your house right now, Beth.
BETH: Yeah, and I'm happy to hear Eckhart says that grandmothers are going to be respected because
I'm going to be a grandmother in July.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I don't know if they'll be respected by July, but we are working on
it. We're working on it, okay. Thanks for that e-mail. Thank so much.
BETH: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think we've got some work to do if we're going get

Maybe just
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If we're going to get old age respected by July, we got to bet busy. We
got to sell some more books. Thanks, Beth. We have a caller from France on the line. Michele lives in
Paris, has a question.
MICHELE: Yes, hello, Oprah and Eckhart.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello. Is it bonjour, bonsoir?
MICHELE: I actually have a million questions, but I'm only going to ask one.
MICHELE: One that's actually troubled me for a long time and I think I can sum it up with a quote
from the Bible. "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter
into the kingdom of heaven." And for me, I see the rich man as someone who is full of ego and full of
mind which can never enter into consciousness. And this relates to me and to my question because I
have a very strong and active mind. And it's my greatest asset, perhaps, but it's also my Achilles heel.
And when I can reach a place of stillness or awakening, my mind wants to participate. It wants to own
the experience. And, at some point, it always succeeds in bringing form to the experience, turning it
into a concept, trying to understand it, trying to link it with past experiences. And so you think about
this space between ego and awareness, and I need to develop that space, I need to be able to step
further back from my mind. And it's very difficult because the mind's also very cunning and it deceives
me even into believing that I'm actually in that space. What can I do, how can I work on this dilemma?
the mind cannot recognize that space. It doesn't know anything about it; it's completely meaningless to
the mind. From what you're saying, I can see you already are able to enter that space. For how long it
doesn't matter, but you are already able to have that inner space of stillness inside you, and your mind
is almost denying that experience, certainly resisting it. So, first of all, the recognition that the most
important thing, which is the initial disidentification from the process of thinking, has already
happened inside you. That first disidentification from thinking and encountering that dimension of
presence or stillness inside yourselfthat has already happened. Now, the mind is not happy with it. It
doesn't want to go there, or it judges it in some way, or the mind says, "Oh, I," wants to interpret it
in some way, all you need to be there is rather than fighting the mind or your thought processes, to
recognize thoughts that arise as thoughts. And it's from the place of stillness or spaciousness inside you
that can recognize when thoughts come and say this or that about stillness or whatever you should be
doing something else or whatever they say. You recognize these as just another thought and another
thought. And when you recognize a thought as a thought, it does no longerit no longer has this
power to pull your attention in completely.
so the important thing is not the fact that your mind is highly developedthat can be quite useful at
some point when you're not identified with it. You can use your highly developed mind in the service
of awareness, in the service of spirit, and that's fine. But in the meantime, it's not being drawn into
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every thought that arises or even fighting a thought and saying, "Go away, I want to be still." That
doesn't work either. You recognize
MICHELE: Seeing it as a threat, I'm giving it power.
yes. You recognize the mind as mind. You recognize thinking as thinking. So, you can then choose to
be present when you're walking out in nature, for example, or when you're sitting alone in your room.
You choose to be present, and then you will notice the mind will occasionally try to come in and do or
say something about it or something totally different that says, "You should be thinking about
something else that's more important than this." And then you can recognize these thoughts as just
another thought that arises. You can even say to yourself, "Oh, there's another thought." And then you
get still again. Another thought comes, "Oh, there comes another" Not to give every thought that
arises this importance so that it draws you in because the mind wants to do that; it wants all your
attention because it's had all your attention for such a long time. So it's a habit pattern of the mind, it
wants to draw in your attention and all you do is you take your attention out of the mind. So that's
thereally is the process. Thoughts isthe mind is not the enemy. You would never win that fight
against the mind if you made the mind into an enemy. The mind is like a little restless child, you could
say, or a restless puppy that goes about and then you say, "Oh, it's justit's nothing, it's not a big
deal."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And as we all get, you know, build our spiritual muscle here, we
become more and more conscious of our consciousness. And recognize when the thoughts are just
playing in your mind, and I'm sure that's started to happen to you already, Michele. You just said, "Oh,
there's a thought, there's another one, there's another thought." I mean, I would have to say over the 10
weeks that we've been doing this course, I've become really, really more skilled at "I will think about
that later." Sort of like Scarlett O'Hara. I won't think about that now, I'll think about that later, because
this is now, I want to be present with whatever's going on this moment, so I'll deal with that at a later
time when I choose to set aside time for thinking about that particular thing instead of just letting my
thoughts rule everything all the time.
yes.
MICHELE: Exactly. I've been putting much too much effort into keeping my thoughts at bay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Right,
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, just say
Page 36 of 67
MICHELE: Looking at them for what they are then.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just look at it and go, "There's another thought. There it is again." And
then the effort should be in keeping yourself in the moment, where to be. You know, my mantra is, "Be
here, be now. Be here, be now. Be here; be now with whatever is going on."
yes, that's good, yes.
MICHELE: Absolutely, yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Be here, be now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much.
MICHELE: Wonderful, wonderful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Michele.
MICHELE: Thank you so much.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bonsoir.
MICHELE: Thank you. Bonsoir.

Bonsoir.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bonsoir.
MICHELE: Bonsoir.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. Let's talk about you say that "The alignment of your outer
purpose with your inner purpose" is which we what we talked about last week, "the inner purpose must
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fuel the outer purpose. Otherwise, ultimately, it's not going to work for us. But the alignment of our
outer purpose with the inner purpose is called awakened doing, and that awakened doing is the next
stage in the evolution of consciousness on our planet. There are three modalities of awakened doing:
acceptance, enjoyment and enthusiasm." On page 295 you write, "Each modality represents a certain
vibrational frequency of consciousness. You need to be vigilant to make sure one of them operates
whenever you are engaged in doing anything at all"this is key, folks"from the most simple task to
the most complex. If you are not in a state of either acceptance, enjoyment, or enthusiasm, look closely
and you will find that you are creating suffering for yourself and others." So let's explain each one of
them. You touched on it a little bit earlier when you were talking to Kippy, I think, about acceptance
does notno, that was Beth. That acceptance does not mean condonement, it means, "I accept this
moment for what it is."
And so when you are doing something, you'll be amazed if you become aware of this and observe
people around you, how many people are constantly in a state of disharmony because they cannot be in
either acceptance, enjoyment or enthusiasm about what they are doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You use the example in the book of changing a flat tire. Now, you don't
have to enjoy changing the flat fire, you would have reached another level of consciousness where you
can enjoy changing it.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which I'm sure you could. You maybe could change it with enthusiasm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I'll let
you know when it happens.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. But so you don't have to enjoy changing the flat tire, but at least
you accept the tire is flat. You will have a much better experience rather than cursing the fact that
you'd had a flat tire, which is what most people do.

Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The first time you get the flat tire, everybody goes, "Damn, flat tire."
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I can't believe it."
Page 38 of 67
even more so if it's at night in the pouring rain and it's cold.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. It's never convenient.
question then is you have to check inside to see what is the inner, your inner state of consciousness that
you're bringing to this action, to whatever you're doing. What is this inner state of consciousness? "Am
Iwhat state am I in?" And then, often you will realize that you are in a state of denial of the present
moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So you said, acceptance, you just said this to Beth, is just saying
what is is.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Is.
And if this is what I have to do at this moment, then I might as well do it without resistance.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is the same as if it's a flat tire or if it is as my friend Kimberly
was saying earlier with the girl and her boss.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "My boss is obnoxious."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I'm not going to change that so let me figure out how to deal with that."
Page 39 of 67
the acceptance really needs to be applied only to the present moment. If the boss is there sitting there
saying whatever he says.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "At
this moment am I able to accept this? Am I bringing acceptance to this?"
here we're talking more specifically about when you're performing some kind of action.
what is the question? What's energy flows into the doing?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. That's the question.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Is it

the energy of denial or negativity? And once you have developed a little bit of sensitivity, you can very
easily tell by observing other people whether the energy that flows into what they do is contaminated
with negativity or whether it's presence or consciousness that flows.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah.

Totally qualitative difference is enormous. I mentioned the waiter as an example. How does he put the
plate on the table? Is he just doing a job because he wants to get out of there as soon as possible or just
making a living, or is he honoring this moment? And by honoring this moment, he's honoring you; he's
honoring life. And something flows into the simple movement of putting a plate on the table just as
one simple example.
changes the environment around him too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I had this experience this weekend. I had to go somewhere and
had to do something, and I was very upset with myself because I hadn't handled my schedule better. So
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I had to get intofly into New York and then Imy schedule started like 8 in the morning. I was very
upset that I hadn't given more time for myself because I was already exhausted. And I realized that I
had to change my attitude, change the frequency. Otherwise, I was going to affect the outcome of
everything I was doing that day if I couldn't have a shift in my own perception about the day. So I
really literally went and sat with myself in the closet until I could shift my attitude into, "Well, I must
accept the fact I didn't look out for myself, I didn't prepare better, my schedule is now overcrowded,
that's the way it is. How can I move forward and make the best of it?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Because I was making myself angrier and, you know, looking for
who I could blame. Yeah.
So if you hadn't done this, the energy
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I realized I was going to ruin my whole day.
and it
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody I encountered was going to feel that.
everybody that youeverything that you would have not truly been successful because success
depends on what energy flows into what you do.
you affect everybody else also with that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is why you must change the modality toif you're not
accepting, enjoying or enthusiastic, you need to stop whatever that is and work on changing your mood
or don't do it.
Either accept what you do, which is the primary thing, or don't do it. Remove yourself. Don't do it, but
don't contribute negative energy or suffering to this world.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. But most people are going to say, I'm sure listening, saying,
"But I had to do it. I had to do it. I have a responsibility. I have to do it, but I don't want to do it."
Page 41 of 67
then know that at that moment it is your choice to create unhappiness for yourself and others. Once
you know that that is your choice, it might change because really to generate unhappiness for yourself
and by implication, for others, really requires you to be unconscious.
when you make this process conscious and realize, "At this moment, by resisting what I'm doing, I'm
creating suffering for myself."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "And
probably people around me too."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And the reason you've come into acceptance again is because of
the energy that you're bringing into it, yes.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the next modality for awakening is enjoyment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a notch above acceptance.
as different frequency.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Vibrational frequency.

Vibrational frequency.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause everything is about vibrational frequency.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People are bringing energy to everything that they do.
Page 42 of 67
enjoyment is a higher frequency.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Some
things are easier, of course, to do in the state of enjoyment. One might almost say you do them
naturally in a state of enjoyment, things that you like doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I love this quote, Eckhart, on 297 you say, "On the new earth,
enjoyment will replace wanting as the motivating power behind people's actions."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When's that going to happen?
it has to
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not by July either, I don't think.

Well, not in the collective, but it can happen in the individual already now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where we do things because we enjoy them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And not because you want more, and want more, and want more.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because so many people have expressed throughout this class on the
message boards and in other areas how you get more things and get more things and you want more
things and want more things and that leaves you with an empty space.
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Filling, trying to fill your life up with things eventually you come to an empty space and you feel
completely unfulfilled.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nothing. Right.
so the wanting is the usual thing that comes out, out of the egoic state of scarcity or lack, which is
always there when the ego predominates. So "I need that in order to fulfill myself, in order to find
satisfaction, I need to achieve this in order to be fully myself." This is the underlying assumption.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, of wanting.
that is the old energy of wanting, and so you go out, and it becomes very stressful because you're
trying to arrive at that point.

Always trying to get away from this moment because the next month promises greater fulfillment.
next one never comes because when it comes it's the now again, which is a place you want to get away
from. Completely insane, but normal.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Okay. So getting to the place where you can have enjoyment
from things because enjoyment does what?

Enjoyment brings an enormous empowerment to what you do and it flows into what you do, and this is
the beginning of creativity which comes out of that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. "When the creative power of the universe becomes conscious of
itself, it manifests joy. You don't have to wait for something 'meaningful' to come into your life so that
you can finally enjoy what you do. There is more meaning in joy than you will ever need. The 'waiting
to start living' syndrome is one of the most common delusions of the unconscious state."
Page 44 of 67
important because many people are trapped in that delusion. They are waiting for something to come
into their lives which will finally give them joy or a sense of aliveness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I love this. 298, everybody, "Joy does not come from what you
do, it flows into what you do and thus into this world from deep within you. The misperception that joy
comes from what you do is normal, and it is also dangerous, because it creates the belief that joy is
something that can be derived from something else, such as an activity or thing." Don't people do
things that bring them joy?
what it looks like, but it's the same process that we talked about a little earlier when we talked about
manifesting something from within.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The joy is there.

comes from the fullness of life that you already sense within you at this moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so for example, I have really enjoyed these webcasts.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I really enjoyed doing these webcasts.
where does the enjoyment come from? From within you. It doesn't come from this table, or these
lights, or the cameras, or even
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Doesn't it come from the community of people out there? I've really
enjoyed having all these people join us.
the joy is within you and then it flows out. It reaches everybody. Even through the cameras it can reach
people and trigger joy in others.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Can you all feel my joy?
but only within them. So it's their own joy. When they feel your joy, they feel their joy because that's
allit's one.
Page 45 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, so they're not feeling my joy?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No,
it'sthere's no such thing as "my joy" ultimately. It's only "joy."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, that's right. It's only "our joy."
you could say that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. There's our collective joy.
yes. So you see that's the
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, that is exactly what I'm doing. "The misperception that joy comes
from what you do is normal, and it is also dangerous, because it creates a belief that joy is something
that can be derived from something else. You then look to the world to bring you joy, happiness.
But it cannot do that. That is why many people live in constant frustration. You will only," because
the world is not giving them what they think they need. "You will enjoy any activity in which you are
fully present, any activity that is not just a means to an end. It isn't the action you perform that you
really enjoy, but the deep sense of aliveness that flows into it. That aliveness is one with who you are."
I got that. Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So I'm
sure many people touch that place within as they watch this webcast. They watch you talking, they
watch me talkingsuddenly they feel that intense sense of aliveness within.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But is that enjoyment the same as pleasure?
Pleasure, pleasure
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not. Because I asked that question of myself yesterday.

Pleasure comes from something without; outside of you.

you derive pleasure from something outside of you.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I ask that because you say, "This means that when you enjoy doing
something, you're really experiencing the joy of Being in its dynamic aspect. That's why anything you
enjoy doing connects you with the power behind all creation." Now see, I read that and I thought what
about people who enjoy gambling or enjoy
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): These
are pleasures.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, sex or enjoy being sadistic or enjoy harming other people.
or enjoy things that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The power ofcreation isn't behind that.
we sometimes call that "enjoy," but there's no true joy in it.
being addicted to a pleasure, something outside that feeds the ego or the pain-body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And pleasure by the definition means pleasing me.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which would be ego.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Okay. Let's go to our New Earth study group that has gathered
every week for the past 10 weeks at Borders on Michigan. Hi, everybody in Chicago. We got a warm
day in Chicago, aren't we happy?
GROUP: Yes.
Page 47 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. I know people are out on the beach, 68 degrees.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Put our shorts on, it's 68 degrees here. Thank you so much for your
enthusiasm and participation. We talked to Sharon during one of our classesI think it was around the
second Web classand Sharon's standing by now. I hear you're going to be making some big changes.
SHARON: Yes, I am.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What? What happened?
SHARON: Well, just like Eckhart was drawn to California to write
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Power
of Now.
SHARON: The Power of Now. I went on Idealist.org and just decided to volunteer, and someone
responded back to me. And it's in The Hague in Netherlands. The thing is, is I have to do it. Everything
has lined up, and I'm just drawn to do this. I have student loans because I have two graduate degrees,
and but yet I have all the money I need to do this. I have the support of my support system here. You
know, through conversations I've had with different members of this book club, I realized, "Gosh, you
know what? I really want to do this. I absolutely want to do this." And when I'm not in a space of
acceptance, I get scared and I say, "This does not make sense. Why am I doing this?" I flew to Holland
last week. No, two weeks ago. I've been back a week. And I interviewed with the gentleman I'm going
to be working with. He is an academic. It's an NGO. And I connect with him. I loveI'm actually
doing research now that I'm back, I'm going back, I got an apartment. I'm going to be there for some
months, you know, maybe longer. And because I feel drawn to do this, and I feel encouraged to do
this, and things have just unfolded where I can absolutely afford to do this. I was downsized.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Then it's all lined up. It's all lined up.
SHARON: Everything's lined up, and I'm shocked by that. I absolutely, when I think consciously of it,
Oprah, I don't knowthis is not my life. This never has happened to me before. But whenever I go
still, by the way, there was Nick at the Bodhi Tree.
SHARON: And I was sitting in my room in Holland crying. The entire week, I hadn't been able to use
my computer because of course I used it first day and I ran out ofmy battery died on me. And
downstairs I troubleshooted with the
Page 48 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So why were you crying over Nick? Why were you crying over Nick?
SHARON: Because he was talking about what I was feeling.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Worried about your bills?
SHARON: And you know, "I need to be earning," I said.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I thought that was a powerful thing that Nick said because I think
everybody's touched by that. I mean, any time ever since that Nick comment two weeks ago, what
Eckhart said to Nick about worrying, I haven't had a worry since. I thought, "Well, I can think about it,
I can choose to do something about it but I don't have to worry about it." I thought that was really
powerful for all of us.
SHARON: Well, absolutely.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really powerful.
SHARON: It was powerful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So now you're in a situation, Sharon, don't question things lining up
because that is what is supposed to be happening.
SHARON: Right, right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is, I will say to everybody who is listening to us today, that is
what happens when you become more conscious. You get, you are aware enough to see things line up
because when you move through the world unconsciously, you can't even see it line up. You are not
available to be a witness to the alignment. And so as soon as you become more awakened, and the
more awakened you become, the more things line up. And you end up moving
SHARON: But Oprah, I have to
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Moving with the flow of your life.
SHARON: Right. But here's what's exciting. Whenever, when I sit and I'm quiet.
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SHARON: And I just, you know, so I was crying and I was able to watch it because I was able to
borrow a plug from somebody else in the hotel.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That was alignment right there.
SHARON: So it worked. Again, it lined up, so it was great. So I'm sitting on the bed, and I'm crying,
I'm, like, "What am I doing with my life?" Then I'm watching Nick talk, I'm dying of laughter of
course, and I'm sure they heard me in the next rooms. But I said, "Wow, this is fantastic." What's really
neat is I, after it was over, I shut down the computer and I sat and I said, "Okay, let's be still. You feel
kind of strange about this, you don't feel you deserve this right now." That's really what it was, and I
sat for a while and I said, "Okay, let me just sit with this. If this is what I feel, will it kill me if I don't
feel great right now?" After that, I stayed up all night and just smiled at the sunset, you know, the sun
came up, I packed slowly. I felt joy, and I have felt joy since coming back except for driving in to
you know, to this last of our meetings because I'm going to miss everyone. And I realize also I'm
letting go of something is over now for me. I'm not going to be going back into finance, I know that.
SHARON: And whatever
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I want everybody towell, thank you so much, Sharon, for
sharing, sharing Sharon.
SHARON: I appreciate it.
SHARON: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody at the Borders for your commitment to this work and
our Web series. Borders, give yourselves a round of applause there.
SHARON: Yay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All our Borders buddies.
SHARON: Oh, can I say one last thing, Oprah?
SHARON: Can I say one last thing? This, by the way, this group of people, I so love them. I'm going
around saying to everybody, "I love you. I love you." This has been the best group. I'm taking classes,
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some people here teach, and I'm taking classes with them, I've spoken to other people and learned so
much about not just myself, but about the world, and I feel so joined with everyone. This has been just
the best experience for me. And thank you so much for it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Great, thank you.
GROUP: Thank you, Oprah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you again. Thank you, our Borders buddies. Isn't that the whole
point of all of this is that when you become more awakened, everybody, things begin to flow in your
life in a way that they had not before. And that's what's supposed to be happening. These, you know,
you talk in the book about, you know, serendipitous encounters; I don't think you used the word, but
things just start happening, they line up.
yes. You have to be there for this to happen. If you're not there, you have to be there in the now so that
life can work for you. You can't, if you deny life by denying the now, life can't work. It's like shutting,
closing the shutters. The sun can't come in.
sun doesn't mind, but the sunwhy not open the shutters and let the sunshine in which isthe strange
thing is that theit's when you no longer deny the present moment, then not only do you see all these
things that are lining up there to support you, but it also means more things are coming into your life.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Be of

assistance.
so that's wonderful once you
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The evolutionary impulse of the universe.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Rises up to meet you.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It does. It does.

does not mean that you will never again encounter challenges.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or if

you have aif you want to have a certain course of action, you want to go from here to there, always,
of course, being conscious that the step you're taking at this moment is the most important step. You
might still want to go from here to there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it does reduce the fear.

yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It does reduce the fear.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you know you can always bring your sense of presence to
thewhatever the moment is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that you'll be all right.
as soon as you encounter a challenge, not resist it, but immediately come to an acceptance of the new
situation and then see how thatvery often it turns around and becomes actually helpful.
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same way that a martial arts master always uses the opposing energy. He neverthe martial arts
master does not fight against, he uses the opponent's energy and gives into it, and he wins bynot by
yielding to the oncoming energy.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Knowing how to surrender to it.

Surrender, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To the oncoming energy.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, absolutely. A question that we get asked all the time is how old is
Eckhart? How old are you?
body is 60 years old.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. And why did you say "this body?"
I don't feel that I am this age. I mean, if you look within, nobody feels that. It's only if you identify
with the body that you believe that you are a certain age. The consciousness that I am is ageless; the
consciousness that you are is ageless. And I'm sure you also feel that there's inside you a consciousness
which has nothing to do with age of the physical body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Do you do something for your skin? No, these are all the
questions we have to ask of the 10th lesson because people write in and they say that Eckhart has such
glowy skin. Is there something you do especially for your skin, Eckhart?
one confession I need to make here iswell, my skin is usually fine, I'm happy with my skin. But
here, we have a very good makeup artist who does something to my skin before I come out here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really.
Stella.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stella does. So you're wearing, like, a little powder or something. No,
but you're

Whatever.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah, whatever, but it's so smooth.
my skin is fine. I mean, it'sI'm happy with it and Iyou don'tif you don't accumulate a lot of past
inside, then the aging process slows down quite a bit.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? Say that again.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you
do not accumulate a lot of past inside your psyche by hanging on to past, identifying with the past,
deriving your sense of self from the past, talking about the past, thinking about the past, then you carry
this burden of past. But if you let go of that past and focus primarily on present moment, then the aging
processI believe that, and I've seen it in some people who are presentthe aging process of the body
actually slows down considerably.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. So 6-0.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your body is 6-0 years old. Yeah, don't look it. You don't do anything
like color your hair or anything?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't. Okay. No Botox? Okay, yeah. Wouldn't we be just a little
disappointed to find out Eckhart, Mr. No-Ego, is Botoxed?
is that?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is Botox?
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Never mind. It's too hard to explain what it is. What is that? I can't even
explain it. Now, let's go to Denise who's Skyping us from her home office in Seattle, Washington.
Denise has a question that a lot of viewers have also asked. Denise, go ahead.
DENISE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello,
hi.
DENISE: When I go to bed and I'm feeling conscious and aware, why then do I still have nightmares,
and do I have an ego while I'm sleeping?
some dreams are dreams of that process, things that haven't been faced completely during the day. So
many kinds of dreams are processing dreams. And then there are other dreams that bring up different
energies that can be pain-body coming into a dream. Ego can come into the dream because normally in
a dream you are not conscious that you are dreaming; exceptional circumstances, you may be, I don't
know whether you are ever conscious in the dream that you are dreaming, are you?
DENISE: I can't remember.
probably not.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it

is quite possible sometimes for the pain-body to come up in a dream, and the character that you
represent in the dream is most likely an aspect of your ego. In a dream, of course, you're completely
identified with what's happening in the dream, and there's usuallythis is why I asked you this
questionthere's usually an absence of the aware space where you are aware that you are a character
in the dream. And usuallyso you can have the awareness in your daily life here. This is what this is
all about is to live in a way so that you have a dimension in your life. In the background of your life,
there's always the aware presence. From there you are conscious of whatever you are doing, whatever
your mind is saying. In a dream that's missing; you don't have the level of awareness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Awareness. Unless you're conscious in the dream, which I dream
dreams and I'm conscious in the dream.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I can sayI can be in a dream and then say, "Oh, I'm dreaming
now."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And if it's not a dream I want to be in, I'll say, "Got to get out of here."
nice.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or

you can say in a dream, "Okay, I'm dreaming, I can do anything."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I can do anything. I think I'll fly now. But you don't do that in
your dreams, right? So the question is whether or not your dreams are your ego. Sometimes they are
not. Did you not also say, well, you did say in the book that sometimes when we dream we go back to
Source?
yes.
there I talk about dreamless sleep because as you know when you sleep you have the dream stage.

Which you go in and out of periodically, and then, occasionally, you have the deep sleep state of
dreamless sleep.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you say that on 282, I read that earlier. "Each night, without
knowing it, you return to the unmanifested Source of all life when you enter the state of deep,
dreamless sleep, and then reemerge again in the morning, replenished." So you've gone back to source
energy there.
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yes, yes. So it does helpwhat do you do before going to sleep is when you, let's say the last 20
minutes or so, what
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not watching the news are you?
DENISE: No, I'm reading A New Earth.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay,
but even that
DENISE: I feel like
good, but even that I would put it aside just for some minutes before you actually go to sleep so that
there can be a space inside you rather than words. And some of the words may actually help you get in
touch with that space. But then the time comes when you put the book aside, and the best, the most
powerful, the most helpful way of going into sleep is by lying on your back flat, arms stretched out,
and put attention into the inner energy field of your body and feel the aliveness from your toes to the
tip of your head, scan your body with your attention a few times, and then feel the entire energy field
of the body as a single field of energy.
it's very beautiful to
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That has helped me a lot. That's actually, since you said that three
classes ago, has helped me do much better sleeping. What Eckhart is also, I think, emphasizing here
for you, Denise, is that being more present in every moment of the day with whatever is going on in
your life will allow you to not to have to deal with whatever you didn't deal with during the day in your
dreams. Because dreams are often the manifestation of your, you know, subconscious mind trying to
work things out that you didn't fully work out in the day, that you didn't work out. And so again, the
answer is being present with whatever is going on, dealing with whatever needs to be dealt with in the
moment so that it doesn't show up later on in your dreams. And I do that particularly if, you know, I
am not a television watcher because I'm on television, like the cobbler's children has no shoes, but if I
happen to be in a room and walk into a room and the television's on and it's something, a particularly
disturbing image, rather than flip from that image or try to deny that I saw that image, I will literally
take it in. I will accept what I have seen and deal with it in my mind so that it doesn't show up later on
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in a dream and frighten me or disturb me, you know. So I try to deal with whatever is going to be
disturbing when it is happening so I don't have to process it later, you know?
that's good, very good, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I hope that helps. Thank you.
DENISE: That makes senses, thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause yeah, the dreams are just unmanifested stuff that you didn't deal
with.
yes. Occasionally, it happens that one has a deeper dream, they tend to be more rare where you might
have a sudden insight coming into a dream that you didn't have before, a sudden realization or some
kind of dream images that come, that have a symbolic meaning in your life and are telling you
something, that can happen occasionally also, and that's beautiful when it happens.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well let's go to the third modality, which is we've talked about
acceptance.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you can't bring acceptance, enjoyment, or enthusiasm. And
enthusiasm, which is what Kippy from Tokyo had brought up earlier, is the higher vibration of
modality for awakening. That whenever you are enthusiastic, that there is something else that comes
into play, there's an energy field created that's bigger than you are.
It's particularly, it's an energy that is of a creative kind, an energy that creates something, brings
something into this world. I wouldn't say it's necessarily of a higher frequency.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Frequency.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's a
more powerful frequency because it's the outgoing movement that is connected, however, with the
source.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and again we say that that is the kind of enthusiasm that's just not
wild external enthusiasm, but enthusiasm borne of the spirit. Enthusiasm borne of consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, we're not just talking about going to a Bears game standing out
there screaming for your team.
that's excitement. Sometimes, the ego sometimes looks for states of excitement like that as substitutes
for being.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. For being.

You're out of touch with being, then the ego looks for substitutes, and excitement is one of them.
Excitement sometimes through the media, through watching a violent film, excitement through
whatever. So acceptance, there are no clear dividing lines between these three modalities. Sometimes
acceptance suddenly shifts into enjoyment. And sometimes enjoyment shifts into enthusiasm.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To enthusiasm. Right.

you, let's say you're doing something that before you would've resented and suddenly you are able to
realize, "Okay, there's resentment and denial inside me. Let's see if I can accept that I have to do this
right now." And so suddenly you bring acceptance to it, and as you bring acceptance, you're actually
beginning to enjoy what you're doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. That is absolutely true. This thing I had, I was telling you I
had to do this weekend, at first was resenting it. I went and sat in the closet with myself so I could
change my attitude, I decided I'm going to accept it, and during the process of it, I decided, "Let me be
100 percent present and see what happens." If I could just be one, and that was my focus, just to be 100
percent present. And I started getting a kick out of it.
yes.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. We're Skyping again with a study group that has gathered at
the Bodhi Tree bookstore in West Hollywood. Hi, everybody.
GROUP: Hi, Oprah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi everybody and Nick. I see Nick there. Okay, who is at the
microphone? Is that Tatiana?
TATIANA: Tatiana.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, Tatiana has a question?
TATIANA: Yes, hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, go ahead.
TATIANA: Yes, I do. It's about acceptance, and Eckhart says acceptance looks like a passive state.
And I do have a big problem with that because sometimes I feel like I accept what is more and more in
my life, but at times I feel like I have to be proactive and I have to do something. And at the same time,
I know that I have to step back and be aware and be in the moment. And that creates even more stress.
Like I'm not getting it, like I'm doing it wrong, and I feel like a loser sometimes. I feel like I'm not
getting it. So how do I make it go away, like this guilt of "you should know better?"
well that's an additional question.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's an additional question. So the first one is
TATIANA: Sorry.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, let's deal with the first part. And the first part is
first part is that you believe that when you're in a state of acceptance, you are no longer very effective,
that you cannot act effectively anymore. Is that what you believe?
TATIANA: Absolutely.
not the case. That's a wrong view of what acceptance means. And this is why we've been talking about
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bringing acceptance into what you are doing so that acceptance is not separate from doing.
Acceptance, for it to be complete true acceptance needs to flow into the doing rather than take you
away from the doing and say, "Okay, there's nothing I can do." In some cases, of course, there is
nothing you can do in certain situations, in which case, you simply accept at this moment there's
nothing I can do. There are other situations where you can do something where doing actually the
situation requires you, if you truly respond to the situation in the present moment, it requires you to
take action, to do something. And then something for you to experiment with now from now on is to
see if you can bring this energy field of acceptance and act out of that so that the action doesn't come
out of inner resistance or a neediness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or denial.

denial or anger. It comes out a more peaceful state, and then you will experience how powerful your
action can actually be.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, did you get that, Tatiana?
TATIANA: Yes, I get it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That acceptance flows into the doing. I think everybody who is
misunderstanding is thinking that acceptance means that, "I'm saying this moment okay, and so I have
to live with it and then do nothing with it or be passive." He's saying you must firstin one of the
earlier classes you used the example of the bus in the mud. The wheels are in the mud.
am stuck in the mud. Let's say I'm walking out somewhere, and suddenly I'm stuck in the mud to my
knees.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're stuck in the mud to your knees.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You must first accept you're stuck in the mud to your knees. You can't
curse the fact you're stuck in the mud to the knees, you can't deny that you're stuck in the mud to your
knees, you can'tthe energy that you spend wanting not to be stuck in the mud to your knees is all
wasted energy.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it
gets you stuck more deeply if you're struggling.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Gets you stuck more deeply. You must accept and let the acceptance
you're stuck in the mud on your knees flow into, "Now what do I do to get myself out of the mud?"
and this "now what do I do" is a state of alert attention.
that's a high frequency. It's a state ofit comes up, okay, you almost listen, it's not an auditory
listening, but I'm using the analogy of listening, it's a state of alert attention. "What do I do now?" And
suddenly, okay, there's a moment of space you don't know. And then out of it you dothe doing arises
spontaneously, or a thought comes into your head that tells you what to do. And that will be
empowered. And that'syou practice with little things first perhaps. Practice with things that usually
you don't like doing so you bring a little bit of resistance to it. Even simple things you might not like
going to the supermarket or you might not like driving to work or whatever it is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Accepting what is.

Accepting what is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what acceptance means. "I accept what is in this moment and now
will decide what do I do to change this moment."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "But I won't deny this moment for what it is or wish that it was
something else."
TATIANA: And I won't feel guilty. Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you won't feel guilty, Tatiana.
TATIANA: Yeah.
yes, now we come to the second part or the second question, which is your mind is not telling you
something that you're not good enough.
TATIANA: Yes, like I'm doing it wrong.
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So there's nothing wrong. You now know what to do and don't believe your mind when it tells you,
"You can't do it; you're not good enough." These are things that often the mind will throw up,
especially when people try to be present or to becometo be still, the mind will say, "Not now
because I have too much on my mind. I've got too much to think, I can't do it, not now, possibly not
now, maybe tomorrow I'll try again."
TATIANA: Yes, yes. It happens to me all the time.
mind will always tell you why you cannot be present now because the mind doesn't like presence
because it's the end of the mind.
TATIANA: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tatiana and everybody at the Bodhi Tree, thank you so much. Nick, see
what a powerful influence you've had for your worrying about yourNick's worried about his bills,
Sharon's in the hotel room crying cause Nick's worried about his bills. Unbelievable. Everybody at the
Bodhi Tree, thank you so much for your gathering and listen to (inaudible).
GROUP: Thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bodhi buddies. Thank you, our Bodhi buddies. Thank you so much,
Tatiana. So do you think that in these 10 weeks we have evolved? I know somebody last week had a
problem with the word "evolution." But do you think in these past weeks this community, our new
tribe of New Earth readers, we've evolved to a higher level of consciousness, a new way of being in the
world?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, I
believe
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To creating a new earth?
believe for many people, it's been an opening so that thissuddenly this new dimension has come into
their lives. And once it has come into your life, there's no going back. It can be obscured for a while, if
you get identified with a mind again or with the pain-body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause don't you have to work on it all the time?
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helps. Even if you don't work on it, it's there, and eventually something will then happen in your life
that will put you back in touch with it. It could be a crisis. But my recommendation is not to wait for a
crisis in your life that forces you to become present again but to choose presence as much as possible
in your daily life, to choose the present moment, to always check inside what your relationship is with
the present moment, the primordial question: "What's my relationship with this moment? Is it friendly
or is it dysfunctional?" And that tells you everything. If it's dysfunctional, it means your future is going
to manifest that. If it's friendly, open and accepting, then the so-called future is going to manifest that.
It's as simple as that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Do you ever have problems, Eckhart? Do you have problems?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, I
don't create problems. Challenges can happen always, you don't getlife will always challenge you in
one way or another, and that is good, but there is no need to transform the challenges of life into
problems by dwelling on things mentally. If you cannot take any action at this moment to turn things
around in your mind, which is where worry comes in, related toworry is problem-making. It's the
mental problem-making. So I don't have problems, not because there are no challenges in my life
because no matter what stage in life you reach, there's always some kind of challenge.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Life is
designed in that way. The world is not here to make you conscious. Sorry, the world is not here to
make you happy.
here to make you conscious.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Make you conscious. Yes. And when you bring consciousness into your
lifefor all of those who have been conflicted over the past weeks about the religious beliefswhen
you bring consciousness into your life, what you're really saying is that you're bringing inallowing
the spirit of that which is God to flow through you and be the preeminent force in your life. Isn't that
what you're saying?
yes, yes, yes. There's no longer the little me.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not the little me.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're connecting yourself to the bigger sourceto the source of all
things.
yes. And let it then flow through you and then this is, for example, where creativity comes into your
life. It'strue creativity can only come in when you let that dimension into your life. So the source
energy manifests through you, and creativity can start with a little thing like even a tiny creative
thought, or some new way of looking at something is already a sign of creativity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But most important it's recognizing that when you can be conscious of
the consciousness, when you bring the presence of that which is consciousness or the spirit of a higher
power or the spirit of God into your life and you allow that to direct your path, that then all things
come to you as they should.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That's how you create the flow.
that's the flow, entering the flow, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is how you say, "A new species is arriving on the planet. It is
arising now, and we are it."
yes. This is such an enormous shift in consciousness that's happening. It's almostthis is why I use
that expressionit's almost as if we were transforming into a new species. For the first time, a
conscious species. It's almost as if humanity was only now beginning to actually wake up.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Would you share with the rest of the audience, at the end of this
just before we started this class I said a thank you to all the crews who made this possible and
Oprah.com, all the Oprah.com staff who's worked so hard the past 10 weeks and our book club staff
and producers and everybody. We had a thank you to everybody, and Eckhart because of my book and
the condition of my book presented me with a leather-bound copy of A New Earth. Would you share
with them what you wrote in my book?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I

wrote a littlethe little poem that I also quote in Chapter 10 by the Persian poet Hafiz, which starts, "I
am a hole in the flute that the Christ's breath moves through. Listen to this music." That's the poem. "I
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am a hole in the flute," I'm not the flute, "I'm a hole in the flute that the Christ's breath," God's breath,
"moves through. Listen to this music." So I wrote this little poem, and I said to Oprah she was a
wonderful hole that energy is moving through her, and the world is listening to this music.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you for allowing me to do that.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With this magnificent piece of work that you've given to us through
your words. And, obviously, you were the hole also for which Christ's breath, the breath of God, the
breath of all energy and creation flowed through you in order for you to write this. I mean, as I have
read it over and over again, now on my fourth reading, I marvel at how you were able to put these
sentences together in such a way that they connecthave connected to me and to all of you all around
the world. So thank you for this experience.
you. And everybody else, of course, is also that in essence. You are the opening for that dimension to
come into this world.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And anything that we do that is creative or is successful or
is good comes from that source flowing through us.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It is not of our doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But of the greater doing of consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I want to thank you all for being a part of this really magnificent
journey. It's been a part of what I know is my life's calling to be able to be the "hole" for all of this to
flow through. So I especially want to thank you andyou and Kim for coming to go Chicago these
past 10 weeksevery single week to share A New Earth with all of us. As I said earlier, I really
encourage all of you to let this be your summer rereading book. And if you've enjoyed it, you should
pass it on. There's no greater gift than sharing it. That's why I wanted to share it with you all. There's
no greater gift than sharing it with somebody that you care about and having their lives also be
awakened and transformed by the words that point you in the direction of the experience of awakening.
Page 66 of 67
So you can all begin to rewatch our webcasts this summer. Please join me next Monday, May 12, for
the start of my Soul Series webcast cause so many people have said, "What do we do now?" Here on
Oprah.com I'll be talking to Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor. She's the brain scientist who had a catastrophic
stroke and experienced much of what we've been talking about in our New Earth webcasts. Our Soul
Series will continue throughout the summer with spiritual thinkers and authors from every walk of life,
so I hope you'll keep Mondays reserved for Oprah.com. Tonight's class will be available on demand
tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any of our other classes,
you can do that tomorrow at Oprah.com and of course iTunes. It's free because of the generous support
of Nature Made Softgel vitamins. What are we going to do next Monday?

Another way offor people to continue to connect with the energy would be perhaps, one is rereading
this book, of course, not necessarily from the beginning, just opening it some after you've read it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All the places that you've outlined, yeah.
And also I, there are lots ofI've done retreats and talks, so on my website people can get talks or
retreats. And just listening to a talk, a two- or three-hour talk can get, put you back in touch with the
presence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And you can always download the webcast.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And we'll be back in the fall. There's no telling what we'll do.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): There's no telling. This is just the beginning. So thank you all. And
again, as Gandhi said, "Let's all go out in the world and be the change we want to see."
yes.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Great.
Page 67 of 67
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A worldwide Web event.
ANNOUNCER: Brought to you by Chevy; technologies that go from gas-friendly to gas-free.

Sponsored in part by Post-it Flags; find out what matterfast. Sponsored in part by Skype;
bringing people closer with video calling.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome to our very first live worldwide interactive event. We are
here tonight breaking new ground. Nothing like this has ever been attempted before. Right
now, you all are online with me from every corner on our planet.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Places like Albania, Bolivia, Cambodia, Ecuador, Finland, Hong Kong,
China, India, Zimbabwe, Australia, Canada, the UK and the rest of Europe. Along with, of
course, all 50 states here in our United States of America. Over 139 countries are
represented in our class tonight. Welcome to you all.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I want to get started. This is the most exciting thing I've ever
done. I've done a lot of things in my life, but I am most proud of the fact that all of you have
joined us in this global community to talk about what I believe is one of the most important
subjects and presented by one of the most important books of our time, "A New Earth:
Awakening to Your Life's Purpose."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't think there's anything more important than awakening and
also knowing what your purpose is. And for the next 10 weeks, author and spiritual teacher
Eckhart Tolle and I will be here in our virtual classroom here on Oprah.com every Monday, 8
p.m. Be on time for class8 p.m. Central.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're going to be answering your e-mails. We're going to be having
a conversation about each chapter and taking your calls from around the world and your e-
mails from around the world, and seeing some of you around the world through our Skype
phones. I'm sure you've already noticed that you can type in your questions on the right side
of your screen and send that to us instantly.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And we will, you know, we have a whole team of people here who are
ready, waiting, standing by to take your calls and e-mails. And, of course, I'm honored to
introduce the author of this great book, "A New Earth:
Awakening to Your Life's Purpose," Eckhart Tolle.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR, A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank
you.

Copyright 2008 Harpo Productions, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Prepared by PeopleSupport which takes sole responsibility for
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Page 1 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good to be
here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How exciting this is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's very good. Okay. So let's get class started. The way we're going
to work the class is that we will have a conversation and take your calls and your questions
whenever we feel appropriate. First of all, I wanted to just talk to you about how this book
came to you. I was introduced to this book several months ago when I was interviewing
Eckhart Tolle on XM Radio. I have a show on XM Radio.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not many people know about it, but it's called "The Soul Series." And
on that show, I get to talk to anybody I choose, and I choose to speak to people who
represent this kind of thinking, this genre of spirituality. And we talk about the soul. So I was
interviewing Eckhart Tolle several months ago about his book The Power of Now because
that's really all I knew about Eckhart Tolle was The Power of Now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I call you "the father of now," The Power of Now, which that book
was a life-changing book for me. Given to me many years ago, about eight years ago by Meg
Ryan, who was on the show. And the producer, Corny, came in and said, well, as I was
preparing, she said, "here's this other book he's written called A New Earth."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I just had time to thumb through A New Earth, and not really
give it its due because I was focused on reading The Power of Now and talking to you about
that. And after our interview, started to read this book, and it was absolutelyI felt the shift
that you talk about, that you say on page 7 that this will be meaningless to you or you will
feel the shift. I started to feel the shift.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And one of the things that really occurred to me as I was going
through various chapters and having aha! aha! aha! moment after another, is what a clear
how clear this message is. What a clear channel it seemed to come through for you. It was
like I'd never, you know, didn't know you or hadn't met you in person, even through the
radio, we weren't sitting in the same studio.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How did this come to be? How did this come through youto you?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it
comes out of the space of stillness, and that's where all creative endeavor is born. So it's
getting in touch with the stillness within, where there's no mental noise, and out of that
stillness, when the time is right, sometimes an impulse comes. Somethinga feeling, a
strong sense that something wants to be born into this world.
Page 2 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE ): I had the same
strong sense before writing The Power of Now. That was 13 years ago when I started writing
it. I had left England. I was living in England, and I had this strong impulse one morning, and I
was in England still, knowing I had to move to the west coast of North America without
knowing why.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This was just a feeling you had?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, a
strong knowing. So it's not through a decision-making process, just the realization, "I have
to move there. I don't know why, but I have to go." It was such a totalno, absolutely no
doubt about it. So I moved to Vancouver, and then I took a Greyhound bus to California,
knew only one or two people, and I said, "Why am I here?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Three
weeks passed, somebody put me up in a room near San Francisco, and suddenly this came. I
bought a notepad, and suddenly the strong stream came through, and I wrote, "What is
Enlightenment?" The beginning of The Power of Now. The moment I wrote that, I knew this is
the book that wants to be born. So rather than me wanting to write a book, there was a book
that wanted to be written. And I
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like Michelangelo says the angel's in the marble and he just cuts
away the marble.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So
and I findI'll come back to that in a secondfor most people that is the approach to "What
is my purpose?" To look at what the greater purpose is, "What does the greater purpose want
from me? What does life or God want from me?" Rather than, "What do I want from life?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So that's
the starting point. I know that sometimes in New Age you have the question, "Well, what do
you want?" It's fine to ask that question, but a more powerful question is, "What does life want
from me? How do I fit into thewhat is the totality? What is my place within the whole?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So this is
how it started, as knowing that this is what life wants from me. The book wants to be born.
And the same thing happened later with the New Earth, again, a similar sense of "Oh, there's
another book that wants to come." I didn't know why because everybody told me, "Well,
you've said it all in The Power of Now, why write another book?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I,
intellectually, I couldn't have answered, "Why am I writing another book?" And it happened.
Page 3 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it happened. Were you asking life, universal energy? I don't
know. What do you call that? As a word do youI call it "God." What do you, what word do
you use for that?

Consciousness
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Were you asking consciousness, were you saying, "What do you
want from me?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. There
was a time for quite a few years, I lived in England and I just did some spiritual teaching on a
very small scale, sometimes little workshops and so on.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I read in the paper today, in the USA Today where you said you
started out with 10 or 12 people in people's homes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, for
quite a while I would teach in people's living rooms, invited a group of friends, and this was
the beginning of informal spiritual teaching. And as I said to the person who interviewed me,
this is coming full circle now because now I'm back in people's living roomsjust more of
them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just more of them. I think we have more than 10 or 12 joining us
this evening. And so the book, would you sit and, you know, passages would come to you?
Would you, you know, actively get up at a certain time and say, "I'm going to write today?" Or
know what you were going to write before it was written?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, not
knowing it beforehand, but every day there was a space for writing. Every morning and until
2 in the afternoon or so, the space was set aside for writing. That was the writing space. And
there were days when the flow was not very strong, so maybe only a few lines got written or
even none at all.

Nevertheless, I always honored that space of, "I'm ready for the writing to happen." I'm not
saying that the writing happened automatically. My mind was involved. It wasn't a channeled
book as such. It was inspired, but not channeled, so it involved my thinking processes too.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But the
thinking process had to be inspired from something deeper. You can't rely on your thinking
processes only toand produce something that is powerful and original.
Page 4 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So already you've shared with us that in order to awaken to your
life's purpose, one of the key things we must do is not try to tell life what our purpose is, not
go around even, I don't know, trying to define for ourselves. Because a lot of people say
many timesI've done, you know, seminars across the countryand they'll say, "I don't
know what my purpose is." You're saying you must ask life, "What purpose does it have for
you?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And
the answer may not immediately come. Very important part of asking life so that you can be
ready to receive the answer is to practice inviting moments of stillness into your life so that
you're not continuously absorbed in the incessant mental noise that we call thinking; most of
which is unnecessary and repetitive.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So to find
spaces of stillness is vital if you want to get to the place where the answers are potentially. So
for quite a few years when I lived in England and did spiritual teaching on a small scale,
sometimes I would say, "Okay, they could do much more. There's much more that I could
do," I said, to life. "I'm ready."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And but
life just waited and waited, and the answer didn't come for several years until that morning
when he said, "Move."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Move. Move. Move to Vancouver.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and
why did I have to move to write it there? I didn't realize that, that every place, Vancouver and
California, that's where The Power of Now was written, I was moving back and forth. I didn't
have a home as such. I stayed with friends moving back and forth.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so
only later I realized I had to move because the energy field on the west coast, this is what I
needed for the book to be born. The energy field in England, although I love England, I have a
deep inner connection with England. The energy I felt there was not right forin my personal
casefor this book to have come out.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So I only
realized that after I had to go back to England. And then I stayed in a community because I
Page 5 of 43
didn't have a home of my own anymore, and I wanted to continue writing, but I couldn't do
very much there because why can't I continue tothe stream stopped. I could only do
editing and correction that was necessary too.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But only
when I went back to the west coast, my visa had expired, I had to go to England. When I went
back, immediately the flow came back. And I said, "Oh, now I know why I had to move." So it's
often trusting life when a very strong impulse comes. But you may have to wait. It doesn't
mean that you necessarily immediately obey every impulse. Because impulses can also come
from more superficial levels within yourself, and
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you were wise enough to know the difference; you had
discernment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, to know the difference.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, it's so interesting because you, in the beginning of A New
Earth, start out talking about a flower. And I've heard many people who'vebecause I go on
the message boards every day. I'm loving you on the message boards, everybody. And many
people are saying that they look at flowers differently now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I can certainly say that I do. And one of the things that you said that
struck me when you said that they are representatives of the spiritual realm, and that when
you are still, allow yourself to be still with a flower, or a crystal, or a bird, or really anything of
nature.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you used a flower specifically because
Because a flower isnature on the whole is a beautiful access point into inner stillness, if you
can be there fully present. But a flower is even, everything
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say "messengers from another realm."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, like
messengers. A flower is very much more fragile than a plant. It is more fleeting; ethereal, I
think is the word, more ethereal. So it has less density to it than most other things. And
because of the lack of density, it's almost as if spirit could flow through it more freely.
Page 6 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So when
you contemplate a flower without too much interference of the thinking mind, to actually
truly look. This is what Jesus said, by the way. I mean in churches you'll hear, will hear Jesus
saying, "Look at the lilies of the field."
when he said that, he wasn't just saying, "Look at the lilies of the field." He said, "Look."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Aren't they pretty?" Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): He said,
"Look, you really have to look because there is something that they embody, something that
you also have. But because of all your anxiety about tomorrow and you're thinking..."I'm
translating very freely now, what Jesus said.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "Why are
youthese flowers are not anxious, they have nothey are not concerned about tomorrow,
and see how beautiful they are? How God clothes them in such beauty? And you can live like
that also." So he used this natural realm and flowers to get people in touch with the
dimension of depth within men.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, what's very interesting to me about all of this is that when I
read that the first time, I thought it was, you know, a beautiful passage. And then I read it a
second time and awakened a little bit more and started to look at nature differently. You
know, I have, you know, live in a lovely space where I'm surrounded by flowers, not in
Chicago.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But in California, and you know, always just appreciated the garden.
"Aren't they lovely in all the different colors, the rose and all that?" And then I decided to
move into the garden without naming it. What if I were like a babe?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What if I were a babe, you know, learning what a flower was for the
first time? What if I went out under the oaks that I love so much, but I didn't know it was an
oak, I didn't know what to call it? And I shared this at one of our after shows. That for the first
time, and I've loved trees all of my life, and the sense of power and stillness they represent.
But by not naming those things in nature, that I felt a magical presence. I felt a sense of
majesty, and power, and strength, and connection that I'd never felt before.
Page 7 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because I didn't give it a name.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's
the key.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. I didn't give a name or have a reference for everything that a
tree has meant in my life.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't it?
right. So being present with the perception. And this theme runs, it's perhaps the main
theme running through the whole book, is that that state where the compulsive naming of
things
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you
start with nature because that's easier to let go of the naming. Later, we'll be talking about
that in some gestation
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Stop labeling people and situations.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's
more difficult because people invite the labels because there's so much mind in everybody.
And they label you and you label them. So, but with nature, this is the starting point to find a
different relationship to nature. It doesn't mean that you need to forget what you have
learned about trees or about flowers. When it's necessary, you can get that knowledge, and
you'd use it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But not to
be totally in the grip of what you have learned of mental labels, of interpreting mentally, but
being able to perceive. One could call it, "perceive the flower," see it through a background of
just stillness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just stillness.
Page 8 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Which is
really consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I will tell you, it's an amazing, for all of those you've who tried
this, and I know some of you have because you've e-mailed us and said so. But when you
start to walk through a park and, or walk in your back yard or begin toand you're right, it's
easier with nature than with people.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And pretend that you don't know or just let yourself be in the space
without labeling the things, it's just, everything's vibrating, and it's like, you know,
scintillating, and
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everything's exciting.

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR "A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S
PURPOSE"): Yes. And that's
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everything's exciting.
then you
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A walk through the park
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): becomes exciting, and it's the same path you've always taken.
before, when you were involved in your mind
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Perhaps
you didn't even see it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Never saw it, yeah.
many people are so trapped in this continuous mental noise that absorbs their whole
Page 9 of 43
attention all the time. Every thought absorbs the stream of thinking, absorbs their attention.
They don't see that the world around them is vitally alive.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you
become gradually, as youpeople then grow older, the world around them becomes more
and more lifeless and dead.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that
happens to them also.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And why is that? Because?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's just
because you are run by mental abstraction. All the concepts and the thoughts on that are
abstractions, it's not alive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you can't take in the information that's there to be received all
around you because you're soyou're in your head.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're in
your head. You're not present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you're
lost in thought. One could say that's the human condition, is being lost in thought. And
people don'tbecause it's the famous, what we call, the voice in the head.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A voice in the head.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That some
people have been asking about.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which we'll be talking a lot about the voice in the head.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So some
people say, "What voice in the head?" It's that one.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's that one. All right, so Kelly from Alton, Illinois, joins us via
Skype. Kelly? Hi.
Page 10 of 43
KELLY (ILLINOIS): Hi Oprah. Hi Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, what's your question?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello.
KELLY (ILLINOIS): Thank you for having me.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, good. Where are you? Home?
KELLY (ILLINOIS): I'm at home.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, good. This is the coolest thing. Isn't this cool?
KELLY (ILLINOIS): It is crazy.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, it's crazy. That's what I think. It's crazy that we're like out here,
wherever this is, talking to each other. Okay, what's your question?
KELLY (ILLINOIS): Well, my question is regarding religion and spirituality.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Big one.
KELLY (ILLINOIS): I had a Catholic upbringing, I married a Catholic, and we're raising our
children this way. In reading books such as Tolle's, I've really, it's really opened my eyes up
to a new way of thinking: a new form of spirituality that doesn't always align with the
teachings of Christianity. So my question is to you, Oprah, how have you reconciled these
spiritual teachings with your Christian beliefs?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, the question's to me. I was resting knowing it was going to
aboutI've reconciled it because I was able to open my mind about the absolute
indescribable hugeness of that which we call "God." I took God out of the box because I grew
up in the Baptist church and there were, you know, rules and, you know, belief systems in
doctrine.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I happened to be sitting in church in my late 20s, and I was
going to this church where you had to get there at 8 in the morning or you couldn't get a
seat. And a very charismatic minister, and everybody was just, you know, into the sermon.
And this great minister was preaching about how great God was and how omniscient and
omnipresent, and God is everything.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then he said, "And the lord thy God is a jealous God." And I
was, you know, caught up in the rapture of that moment until he said "jealous." And
Page 11 of 43
something struck me. And I was like, I think about 27 or 28. I was thinking, "God is all, God is
omnipresent, God isand God's also jealous? God is jealous of me?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And something about that didn't feel right in my spirit because I
believe that God is love and that God is in all things. And so that's when the search for
something more than doctrine started to stir within me. And I love this quote that Eckhart
has, this is one of my favorite quotes in Chapter 1, where he says, "Man made 'God' in his
own image. The eternal, the infinite, and unnamable was reduced to a mental idol that you
had to believe in and worship as 'my god' or 'our god.'"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now I think that's very eloquently put by Eckhart Tolle in Chapter 1.
But that is exactly what I was feeling when I was, you know, sitting in church that Sunday
listening to the preacher. And you know, it's been a journey to get to the place where I
understand, as I said on the preshow here, that what I believe is that Jesus came to show us
Christ consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That Jesus came to show us the way of the heart and that what Jesus
was saying that to show us the higher consciousness that we're all talking about here. Jesus
came to say, "Look I'm going to live in the body, in the human body, and I'm going to show
you how it's done." These are some principles and some laws that you can use to live by to
know that way. And when I started to recognize that, that Jesus didn't comein my belief,
even as a Christian, I don't believe that Jesus came to start Christianity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that was also very helpful to me. And as I said earlier in the
preshow here, there is a wonderful book called Discover the Power Within You by Eric
Butterworth, which helped me reconcile the two. So that might be really good for those of
you who are Christian and trying to balance the two. What would you say?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because one of the things that Eckhart says in the beginning of this
book on page 6 is, "This book's main purpose is not to add new information or beliefs to
your mind, or to try to convince you of anything, but to bring about a shift in consciousness,
that is to say, to awaken." He says that on page 6. And one of the reasons why I appreciate
him so much is because he truly isn't out to become your next guru. He doesn't want, you
know, all of you who are online with us tonight and those millions who will now hear about
this book, he's not interested in being your guru, correct?
correct.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. How would you respond to that? That's one of the biggest
questions that we have coming into our message boards about the same thing that Kelly is
addressing here from Alton about spirituality and religion. This is not trying to tell you how
to believe. And how do you advise people to reconcile this with their religious beliefs?
Page 12 of 43
religion can be an open doorway into spirituality, and religion can be a closed door. It
prevents you from going deeper. So that I love reading the New Testament, and I also read
the Old Testament. Sometimes there's some incredible jewels in there. And when I went
through this inner transformation, and for the first time accidentally I picked up a copy of
the New Testament at my mother's place.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I
started reading, and I immediately recognized the deep truths that is there, and I realized the
truth that is deeper, that is expressed in what Jesus said, is much deeper than what you, how
the church interprets it. There's a depth to it. And it reflects your own depth when you read
it. So there's no conflict between this teaching, which is purely spiritual, and any religion.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because if
you go deep enough in your religion, then you all get to the same place. It's a question of
going deeper, so there's no conflict here. The important thing is that religion doesn't
become an ideologyso, "I believe this." And the moment you say "only my belief" or "our
belief" is true, and you deny other people's beliefs, then you've adopted an ideology. And
then religion becomes a closed door. But, potentially, religion can also be an open door.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, let me share this with you too, Kelly. There's another book by a
woman named Elizabeth Lesser, it's called The Seeker's Guide, where she talks about the new
spirituality versus the old. So I just wanted tothis is on page 51 and 52 of Elizabeth
Lesser's book called The Seeker's Guide.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And she talks about old spirituality versus the new spirituality, and
she says the old wasthe old way isthe hierarchy has the authority. Church authorities tell
you how to worship in church and how to behave outside of church. The new spirituality is
that you are your own best authority as you work to know and love yourself, you discover
how to live a more spiritual life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The old is, "God and the path to worship him have already been
defined, and all you need to do is follow the directions." The new is being able to listen within
for your own definition of spirituality, your deeper longings are under search. And the old
says exact here what Eckhart was saying. That there's only one path. It's the right way and all
other ways are wrong. And the spirituality says that many paths lead to spiritual freedom and
peace.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You have a rich array of gems from which to draw illumination. The
world's religious traditional, mythology, psychology, healing methods, scientific wisdom,
your own experience and that you can begin to string a necklace all your own. Then she lists,
you know, other old and new. And so it's really a question of what you were saying to us
earlier that this material strikes a chord within you.
Page 13 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Something in you opens up and wants, you know, feels alive and is
awakened to that. And yet there is the ideology that says what to you? What is the conflict for
you?
KELLY (ILLINOIS): Just thoughts on the afterlife, things like that. You know, youin a lot of
books such as Tolle's, we get teachings from Buddhism or Hinduism, and those thoughts
don't go along with, you know, what I was raised to believe as a Christian. So that's been the
biggest thing that I've struggled with, I think, so...
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I am a Christian who believes that there are certainly many
more paths to God other than Christianity.
KELLY (ILLINOIS): Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm a free-thinking Christian who believes that, who believes in my
way, but I don't believe that it's the only way, with 6 billion people here on the planet.
KELLY (ILLINOIS): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Another
also who uses, who might appeal to you, who uses Christian terminology but goes very, very
deep, using Christian language and Christian teachingsJoel Goldsmith.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So any
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Joel Goldstein?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Goldsmith.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, Goldsmith.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Joel
Goldsmith. Any book by Joel Goldsmith that you would try that, and you can see how deep
the Christian teaching can be.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay?
KELLY (ILLINOIS): Well, thank you very much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Kelly. You're our first Skyper.
KELLY (ILLINOIS): Great. I'm honored.
Page 14 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I didn't even know what Skype was until this. Now we're Skyping all
over. We have a Chicago study group watching our webcast together at Borders. Hello.
Borders flagship store right there on Michigan Avenue. Hi, everybody.
CROWD: Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. Listen, we just, listen, I know it's my ego, but I can't stop
saying how cool this is. I hear that's Ryan, you're Ryan?
RYAN: Yes, I'm Ryan.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, Ryan.
RYAN: Hello, Oprah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Got a question?
RYAN: Hello, Mr. Tolle.
RYAN: I do, I have a question for, actually, either of you, and it relates to the spiritual
awakening that you speak of in Chapter 1. It seems to me that if you look at human history in
the past 100 years, and very poignantly in the past 10 years, that there has been this
intensity and speed at which people are becoming more aware of this Christ consciousness.
Why do you think that's happening now? Why is this happening now?
happening now because we're reaching a crisis point. Very essential things don't happen
until there's an absolute need for them to happen. So you can say in the past this awakening
has been a luxury, and only a few individuals here and there through all the ages were able to
be awakened. And they tried to teach others, but to a large extent their teachings became
misinterpreted. So we are awakening now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That Jesus was a revolutionary who got misinterpreted a lot.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes.
We are awakening now because we have to awaken if humanity is to make it to the
evolutionary level. We need to awaken because the egoic consciousness will become soit's
already been, it already become very distractiveit's become more and more destructive. We
will destroy ourselves and the planet if we do not step out of the egoic consciousness, the
collective ego.
Page 15 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you look
at the history of the 20th century that gives you a taste of what it will be if there is no major
shift. I wrote in The Power of Now that 100 million human beings were killed by other humans
during the 20th century through warfare and so on.
And I recently read in a history book by a Harvard professor that my figure was much too
low. It's as much as 160 to 180 million human beings were murdered through warfare and
concentration camps and prison camps and starvation, manufactured starvation because
China, Russia and so on. It's unbelievable insanity when you look at that history. And so if
there's no shift in consciousness, we will go downhill very quickly because we're already in
the process of destroying the planet. But there will also be continuous conflict, collective
conflict, and eventually then humanity would collapse.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you think we're at a crisis point now.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Crisis
point, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, Ryan, don't you think so too? I mean when you're with your
friends, you know, obviously you're gathered here at Borders tonight because you are
interested in this kind of, this way of thinking. But we all talk about it in some form or another
of how bad things are. How, you know, the mediaeverybody complains about the media
and the movies. I mean, if you just look at the Academy Awards this year and the kinds of
movies that were made this year, and it's all the reflection of who we are. And you say in the
book how we're the species that will go and watch other people on film be maimed and killed
and murdered for our entertainment.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes,
yes, it's amazing.
RYAN: And it's noise. It's the mind; it's all of that. And my friends and I talk about it, and it's
things where we want to push that out and say, "Well, we choose not to look at those things.
We choose not to surround ourselves with that type of energy."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But I just got it. I just had an epiphany, an aha!, as Eckhart was
talking here. I mean, and I'd read this several times in the book too: the number of people
murdered, maimed, destroyed by other human beings during the 20th century. But the aha!
for me was, yes, look at what we did in the 20th century. Look at the surge that we've had in
our technological abilities. Look at you right now. We're Skyping each other. The
advancement in our abilities to create new bombs, new ways of killing each other so that in
the 21st century, if there isn't a shift, if you had 100, over 100 million people killed in the
20th century, God only knows. And I do mean God only knows what will happen to us unless
we start to change this.
Page 16 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes,
because technology amplifies the egoic dysfunction in human beings. So, before, the
dysfunction was the same 2,000 years ago, but we couldn't do much harm because the
technology wasn't there. The very same dysfunction still operates and becomes magnified
through science and technology.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Does that answer your question, Ryan?
RYAN: It does, and I justit just makes me think of what could we do if we just focused that
same energy on the positive and helping other people. And I feel that that's where we're
going.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's also not just the positive. One of the things I think we all learn
from reading A New Earth: that it's not just about being positive, it's about putting our own
egos in check. Because as we begin to move forward in our studies the next 10 weeks, you'll
see that first you have to see, you know, see the voice in your head, see how you're
contributing to it because I think, you know, for years we've all heard that we're all, if you're
not a part of the problem, you're a part of the solution. I think most of us don't understand
and I did understand to an extent, but got it even more clearly ever reading A New Earth
understand how we're contributing to the problem. And the way we're all contributing to the
problem is? Eckhart?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, you
need to look at your own mind. So it's everybody's responsibility to become aware of their
conditioned mental processes: how you react in everyday situations, what kind of thoughts
go through your head. It's good to not amplify the negativity that you see around you in the
world by reacting to it. You have to be very much aware, of course, of what your mind is
doing. So observe your own mind. Be there as the witness of your mind so that the
witnessing dimension, which is awareness or presence, grows. You are not your thought
processes. The thought processes are conditioned through thousands and thousands of
years of conditioning. And there is dysfunction built into the very structure of our thought
processes. This is how the ego arises. We'll talk about that in more detail.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But to
recognize in oneself, there isyou may not contribute to the murder and so on out there in
the world. But it's everybody's responsibility to discover their dysfunction within them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, so you get that right, Ryan? What he's saying is is that there is
a collective consciousness that he talks about, pages 11 and 12. "The dysfunction of the
egoic human mind has created the situation in the world today," he says in A New Earth. And
what I hear you saying, Eckhart, is that our individual fears, doubts, angers, jealousies,
resentments all contribute to the collective.
Page 17 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so in order to begin to change the collective, each one of us
has a responsibility to sort of mind that within ourselves.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's how we're contributing to the collective.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and it's not just the road ragers, it's however you're holding
resentment and anger and jealousy and fear in your own life. That's what you're saying.
What is it that you're putting out into the world? Is there negativity? Mental, emotional?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In you.

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cause that
contributes to the collective energy fields. So you can only goso it's up to the individual to
go, to step out of the egoic consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You got that, right, Ryan?
RYAN: That makes a lot of sense.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it does make a lot of sense. Thank you.
RYAN: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. Thank you Borders.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We've got Erica who lives on a U.S. military base in Landstuhl,
Germany.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, you
are in the middle of the night.
Page 18 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the middle of the night.
ERICA: Yes. Yes.
ERICA: Morning.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Morning.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Morning,
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi Erica.
ERICA: Hi Oprah. Thank you so much. This has been crazy as you said.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Crazy fun.
ERICA: Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Landstuhl, Germany. Never heard of it, but glad to have you from
there. Hello.
ERICA: Thank you. Glad, thank God for Skype.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank God for Skype. Okay, what is your question or comment to
us?
ERICA: Well, my question is for Mr. Tolle. I too grew up in the Baptist church just like Oprah
and so many others. And you talk about the voice in my head, and I had a situation where I
no longer attend that church because the behavior didn't line up with the teaching. But on
Sundays when I'm at home with my family and we're enjoying a nice day and we decided not
to go to church, that voice in my head says things like, "You didn't go to church today
that's not how you were raised. When your mom calls, what are you going to say?" Can you
help me with that on explaining why we have the voice in the head that says things like that?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, he can help you, Erica.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now the
voice, of course, is the conditioned thinking. The voice, what the voice says is conditioned by
Page 19 of 43
your past, by your childhood, by your upbringing, by the surrounding culture. All those
things condition your thought processes. And when yousometimes it happens when you
awaken, maybe not completely, but when the awakening process begins, a lot of the old
voices in the head, the old thoughts still come up. They still come up, and the essential thing
is to recognize them as conditioned thought processes. And to see, because the fact that
you're asking the question means there's already an awareness there that these are the
voices in your head, so you're not totally identified. Because if you were total identified with
the voice, you would say, "I feel so terrible. I really think I should be doing this." But you
realize it's the voice in the head that's doing it. And then you can't allow it and say, "Okay,
there's an old thought," and allow it to be there and be the awareness behind the thought.
And anybody, this is not just in this particular, your particular case. There are many other
instances where people have the movement of thought, telling them this or that, interpreting
events or people according to the old conditioning. When you meet people, telling you
immediately, judging somebody according to your old conditioning, with prejudices, with all
the old conditioning. So it'sthe only way you can gradually go beyond the conditioned
thought processes is simply to be there as the witness. You don't need to act on it or say,
"Go away, I don't want to be thinking this." That doesn't work.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It would
only give it more energy.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So again, a
vital thing, and this will be going throughout the book and the teaching is, as much as
possible, be aware of what your mind is saying and realize that only a small part of the
consciousness, the totality of consciousness that you are, many people don't know that yet.
They're totally one with the voice. They are the voice. They are so identified with every
thought that comes, there's no space between them and the thought. So the essential thing
is there'srealize there's thought processes, and here I am at this space for the thought. It's
the awareness or the space for the thought.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that the thought is only a part of
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): a small
part, it's the conditioned part of who you are. A more time-bound, it's conditioned by the
past. There's a more essential part of who you are, and that is the awareness that knows that
there's a
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The awareness of the thought.
Page 20 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which we're going to get into in further detail. But also, Erica, let me
share this with you. Part of what you and I, our first caller from Alton, Illinois, was also talking
about, is trying to reconcile the two. The reason why the voice keeps repeating is because, of
course, of what Eckhart is saying; it's conditioned thinking. But also the guilt is you haven't
made a decision for yourself about what is real or true for you. So you're still being led by
the conditioned thinking and haven't made a decision. And, for me, that came when I was
able to do exactly what Eckhart said earlier. I didn't phrase it the way he did. I asked God to
use me. That has been my prayer for many years, you know. Eckhart says, "Ask life what is its
purpose for you?" But I would pray on my knees to God and ask to be used and to be a
servant and to allow his spirit to work through me and to not to just be on television but to
be able to use television for a purpose that was greater than my own personality and to
collect shoes in my closet. It didn't mean I wanted to give up the shoes, but I would if I had to.
So when I started to ask that question of God, "How can I be used? God, how do you want me
to live? How would you have me be?" I let go of the guilt of, "Did I make it to church or didn't I
make it to church?" Because the majesty and power and omniscience of this force that we call
"God" cannot be contained in a church.
ERICA: You're right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cannot be contained in a church. And does not just want to be
served in a church. But if church allows you to feel like you are being of service, then use it
that way. But the bigness is what Eckhart was saying in that quote in the book, "Man made
'God' in his image. The eternal, the infinite, and unnamable force" that is God, that is all
consciousness, that is universal energyI don't believewishes to be just served on Sunday
at 11 o'clock service. So that's what you're trying to reconcile with yourself. The voice in
your head versus what you really should be doing.
ERICA: That's it.
ERICA: Thank you, that's it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You need to make that decision for yourself.
ERICA: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And start asking that question of God.
ERICA: Okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right?
Page 21 of 43
ERICA: I will do that. Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Erica, from Landstuhl; Landstuhl, Germany. We have
Adam from Redmond, Washington on the phone with a question.
ADAM: Yes, hello?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, on the phone phone. Hi.
ADAM: Hi there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi Adam.
ADAM: Hi, thank you so much, both of you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I feel a little like Larry King. Is the caller there? A little like Larry King,
okay. Go ahead.
ADAM: Oh gosh, yeah, well, I used your online study group to create a couple groups out
here, which I've called "Embracing Silence." Sort of the purpose of joining together for
meditation and study and discussion and to create a field of presence and share with others
in that. And I'm curious, what role do you see community or joining with others with the
intention of sharing this consciousness, playing in the flowering of human consciousness?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good. Good question.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It's
very important, and, of course, what's happening here tonight is part of that also because it
is a joining on a level that we haven't seen before. It's the arising presence. You can access it
much more easily as part of a larger community or group of people. So to have a, in your
home, to have a group of people who practice being present, perhaps listen to a spiritual talk
or have a little reading, enter stillness, be present is extremely helpful because an energy
field is generated when people come together and enter the state of presence together. So,
and this is happening here also, although people are not physically together, and yet there is
a energy field now that is generated all over the planet of presence; a different level of
consciousness being generated. So it's helpful to join with others. Also, it needs to be said,
not to become dependent on any group. It is still your responsibility to bring this new
consciousness into everyday life and where you go about your business and your family.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Once you become dependent upon the group, then you've now...
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Then you
always need to go back to the group, and you cannot live presence in your daily life. So the
Page 22 of 43
important thing, yes, go to the group to generate more presence, and then your
responsibility is to live it in your everyday life where most of the time, perhaps, you will not
yet be surrounded by people who are present. You will be surrounded by the old egoic
consciousness. So there, that is, and this is the challenge for everybody now who is
awakening that, yes, more and more people are beginning to awaken, and yet there are still
vast numbers of people on the planet who are not.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Who are not. But I was going to say that when Ryan from Borders
was speaking to us and was saying, you know, the need to be more positive when there's all
this energy in the world. Look, we have 700 and some thousand of us all gathered here this
evening, which is a huge positive force.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In creating the shift.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's a different kind of community.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like we've never seen or experienced before.
right. Yes. And then of course the otheranother kind of community is generated through
the Internet now and all these things that I don't know much about, but it's happening. So
how people communicate with each other. Again, there's a, people are being linked in
different ways with each other.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is a rising of a new consciousness that he speaks about, Adam.
ADAM: Well, it certainly is, and it's, you know, it's very pleasurable to spend time with others
in sharing this consciousness, you know, like you said. When you're under the tree and you
felt the, you felt that oneness and that majesty. Well, imagine if you had someone sitting
there next to you to share that experience with. I think it makes it even that much more
sacred.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I did have my two dogs, Luke and Layla were there.
ADAM: Ah, wonderful. Wonderful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Adam.
Page 23 of 43
ADAM: Little secret moment. Yes, thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Adam. That's Adam from Redmond, Washington. Let's
see some of the questions that you're sending us now, oh, this is cool, on e-mail. Okay, we're
going to check the computer screen here. Caught up. Questions are, nothing's there.
Nothing's there. So I'll keep talking. One of the things that really struck us so was so many
people responded to this; page 13. "You don't become good by trying to be good." "You
don't become good by trying to be good."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And carry
on.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's
more to that sentence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes there is. Let's go to page 13 to find it. "You don't become good
by trying to be good, but by finding the goodness that's already within you, and allowing that
goodness to emerge. But it can only emerge if something fundamental changes in your state
of consciousness."
what that means, if nothing changes in your state of consciousness, the ego has many ideas.
It says, "I want to be a spiritual person. I want to be recognized as a spiritual person. I want to
be more spiritual than all these people. And I'm definitely more spiritual than you." So the
ego has all kinds of ideas of what it wants to be. It might even say, "Yes, I want to be good."
Because it wants to have a better image of itself. But on that level, the essential dysfunction of
the ego is still operating. So this is why we have the phrase, "the road to hell is paved with
good intentions." Because no matter how good your intentions are, when you're still trapped
in the ego, it will always take you into conflict eventually. So there are people
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's why I was saying to Ryan, you can't just think positively.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If there's such thing.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's no
enough. You have to go deeper.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I mean you can think positively, but it is not enough because
eventually something negative will come along to challenge the positive.
Page 24 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you must
realm of opposites.
have go deeper beyond the realm of opposites where there's good and bad. And for each a
place within yourself that is unconditioned, that is what I sometimes call the formless
consciousness, spirit expressed beautifully in the Old Testament in the little saying, "Be still
and know that I am God." That is, and that's in the Old Testament. It contains the entire
wisdom of religion in those few words. "Be still," meaning go to that place where the mind is
no longer operating. You are just conscious without thinking. And that is the level where the
eternal resides. So the eternal, the formless, the spirit, is the essence of every human being.
No matter how insane or conflict-ridden it may seem to appear on the surface, within every
human being, that remains untouched. There's nothing that anybody could have done to you
or nothing that you could have done to others to destroy that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's always there.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's always
there, and that is the grace of being here, and no matter how much madness there has been
in your life, that remains untouched. So it's getting in touch with that deepest place within.
And you can only do that by becoming still.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now
becoming still does not mean you go to sleep. It means you're actually more alert than when
you are thinking. You have to invite the stillness into your life as much as possible.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's why I loved your book Stillness Speaks. It's only that small
[gestures], but every page is a gem.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also, it's what I was saying earlier, that in order to feel, that the
way you feel thatfor everybody who is listening to us nowthe way to begin to feel that is
Page 25 of 43
to look at nature. If you were to go out and just be with a tree, and I don't mean hug a tree,
we're not talking about now you got to go hug a tree and eat granola, but if you were just to
be with anything in nature. I like trees because they're so majestic, they're so powerful and
visual. And if you're with it for a time, you start to sense the presence of it, the stillness of it,
and begin to recognize that stillness within yourself.
what you sense in the tree is also in you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's always in the tree.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even when the wind is blowing and there's a storm.
that's, that is also a sacredness that is there in the tree. And now our world doesn't know
much that's sacred. It has become an abstract concept, nobody seems to know what
sacredness is until you can feel it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Until you can feel it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When you
feel, then you don't need a definition. People ask, "Please define what sacred is." You don't
need a definition of what sacred is because sacred is the essence of who you are. So it's
sensing that and you can sense it when you're still enough. You sense it in the tree.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, isn't it interesting that you first came to recognize this when
you were about to kill yourself?
Sometimes you have to reach a limit. Humans have to reach a limit. Human species as a whole
is reaching that limit, but also, on a personal level, sometimes people have to be pushed to
the limit. My ego was so obstinate, and my pain-body was so strong, I had to be pushed to
the limit before it cracked open.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, before we go into any further, share that moment that you talk
about in the beginning of The Power of Now where you're about to kill yourself.
Page 26 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Feeling so much pain.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Dreadful
suffering at night. I would often wake up in extreme feeling of dread and fear; consumed by
dread and fear. The whole world seemed alien. I saw the thought one night, I woke up again
and the thought came, "I can't live with myself any longer. I just can't live with myself any
longer; it's so painful." And that thought repeated itself a few times. And then suddenly,
something happened inside me, and I looked at the thought. That was of course awareness. I
didn't know at that time what it was. I became aware of the thought and I said, "I cannot live
with myself. That's strange, so there must be I and there must be myself. Am I one or two? I
seem to be two. Because if I can't live with myself, there must be two of me here."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, and everybody has felt that. Not to kill themselves, but
everybody has felt or heard you say to yourself, "I said to myself."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I said to myself."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And,
of course, the entire, what we call the voice in the head, we could also call it "self-talk." Where
you talk to yourself. And most people address themselves as "you." So the voice is, "You
shouldn't have done that." Or "You should"

there'sconstantly there's a separation inside human beings which is the essence of ego.
there's a, here's an image of who I think I am and then there's a me. They get mixed up
together.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I'm sorry I interrupted you, that thought, though. You're
getting ready to kill yourself, said, "I can't live with myself any longer."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Said that several times in your mind.
Page 27 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then I,
I became aware of the structure of the sentence. And said, "If that's the case, then who is the
self that I cannot live with? And who am I?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that
moment, a separation happened completely between the essential "I," which is the essential
consciousness that I am, beyond past and future; the eternal stillness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stillness. Stillness.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But awake
stillness. And all my thought processes, which were ego would beall my thought process,
well, that created the dreadful suffering. The mind-created entity, the unhappy me, was
continuously fed by my thinking. It consisted of thinking, a stream of thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So did you just decide that night? "I guess I'll wait to see if I will kill
myself?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. The,
kind of, it was a kind of spiritual suicide, so the ego died instead of me having to jump off a
bridge, fortunately, the ego died. The ego dissolved as the unobserved mind dissolved.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The ego.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The full
self, the me, the unhappy story.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, got it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Me as the
unhappy, my identity as me and my unhappy story
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Died. Died, dissolved. Because the "I" behind it suddenly woke up
and said, "Who is that self that I can't live with?" And when you fully look at that self, it
actually dissolves because it cannot survive in the light of intense consciousness.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so the
next morning I woke up, and I didn't know what day it was. It was strange, what happened.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eckhart, were you drinking?
Page 28 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No
drinking, no drugs.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did you have a couple sips of something?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nothing. It
just happened, and I felt like being drawn into a kind of vortex, and then I went to sleep. And
the last thing I felt, there was still some fear. The voice said "Don't resist, or resist nothing.
Don't resist, resist nothing." And so I must have gone to sleep then.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You had your first good nights sleep in God knows when.
the next morning I woke up and looked around and looked, everything looked so fresh. All
the old furniture, the pencil. Everything looked fresh and alive. As I caught a bird song
outside as if I'd never heard it before. Because the mind had become still, and there was
simply the beautiful perception of everything. The sunlight coming through the curtains.
Incredible. I've never seen that before.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sounds like a drug trip.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, later
on, people tell me, they ask me, "Is that like acid?" Because some people take acid and they
say, "Oh, we experienced that when we took acid," they told me many times. Until finally, I'll
tell you in confidence, finally I tried acid just for once.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're telling me in confidence here?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, good.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I tried it
just once just to see
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If it was the same thing?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah?
Page 29 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's not
quite the same thing because what I experienced was much more subtle and beautiful. The
acid I experienced has almost a violent thing where violently the perceptions, sense
perceptions become so magnified that there was no room for thinking anymore. But I could
see why people say, for some people it's a glimpse of what it means to perceive the world
without this continuous interference of mental noise.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but your trip without acid was better.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Much
better.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, I, part of what you're describing is what I came close to
that when I decided to go outside without naming things or labeling things is what I was
describing earlier. Walking through the park, walking around, you know, my house, which is
like a park. Everything was like vibrating, and it was the colors and everything. The sense
perception was very different because I wasn't in my mind thinking about it. I was just there
to experience it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's how you get to that place.
right. So when you are no longer there when you walk through your garden or wherever.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you're not naming every flower.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're not
naming, and also you're not carrying the burden of a heavy "me," a personality, a person with
its problems, with its past, with its future.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): About anything.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you are,
basically you'll become a conscious presence perceiving the beauty around you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it's fascinating. Well, okay, we do have an e-mail now from
Kathy, Delta, Colorado. Is that where you're well, no, she can't talk, it's e-mail. "How do I shed
Page 30 of 43
the years, or rather, decades of conditioning and distractions, sickness, relationships, work,
in order to hear and feel the moments of stillness? Which is what we were just talking about.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. The
good thing is you don't need years and years to undo years and years of conditioning
because
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good in an instant.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Only
now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Only now.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it's the
access point is the present moment. The present moment is the point of power to enter the
state of consciousness. So we need to lean how to find in our daily life, as often as possible,
this point of power of the present moment. Because if we don't, we get continuously dragged
along by the old conditioning of the mind, all the old thought processes, all the old reactions
and so on. So there are many little things you can do to access the power of the present
moment. For example, very simple thing. Ask yourself, "Am I still breathing?" Now what does
that mean? To find out if you're still breathing, your attention needs to move from the
thinking into here [gestures to mouth]. And you suddenly feel the air flowing into your body
and out of your body. Mm-hmm, yes, I'm breathing. And at that moment, you've entered the
stage of presence. Even if it's only five seconds, you've entered that. You've become present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the moment.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In that
moment. Another thing I suggest is when you do habitual everyday motionslike washing
your hands or walking across the room or walking down the stairs or the slightest thing,
taking a cup out of the cupboarddo it consciously, do it being present of every, the feel,
for example, when you wash your hands, feel the water, smell the soap.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have this in one of the workbook exercises online.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Sense
perceptions, becoming acutely conscious of sense perceptionswhich means looking,
hearing, touchingbrings you to the present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How is that going to help me because I started doing that going up
the stairs. I was going, "One foot on the stairs. There's another foot on the stairs. There's
another foot. Okay, I'm at the top of the stairs now." I was present walking up the stairs. What
does that do for me, Eckhart?
Page 31 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Were you
present?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think I was. "There's a foot, there's a foot, there's a foot on the
stairs." I'm just there, the movement. The feeling, feeling the motion of my body and how
many parts of the feeling, feeling the motion of my body and how many parts of my body
have to move to get me up the stairs? "I used my thigh muscle there. I used the back of the
leg or my ankle"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nature's
presence. I wasn't sure upon the way you say it, I thought you were repeating mentally,
"Here's one step, and here's another step," but you were not.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No I was not. I was feeling every part of what it took to get me up the
stairs.
now the mind says, "What's the point in that?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The mind then said, "Okay, now you were present getting up the
stairs. Now what?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And at the
body says, "I've got more important things to think about."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes it did. Mine said, "Now what did that do you?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, to the
mind, that kind of thing's completely meaningless because you're inviting a different state of
consciousness into your life which the mind cannot understand. But this is how you bring in
awareness. This is the end of the old conditioning.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you
bring in a consciousness that is totally fresh and new that comes out of the present moment.
And the more you bring those moments of presence into your life, the more your old
conditioning becomes eroded gradually.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I see. So learning to do it with washing your hands.

I just got this.
Page 32 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Simple
things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is good. This class is good for me. I don't know about the rest
of you all, but I got it now. Just learning to do the simple things begins to retrain your mind.
another thing is, most simple things that you do which actually fill up most person's
everyday life because the whole day consists of simple things that you have to do.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They're all
relatively simple.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the
way most people live is that everything you do is a means to an end. And the end is where
you want to get to, the next moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. So you're never thinking about the moment.
because you want to get to the next one. You're washing your hand in order to already do
that. Or you're makingwhile you're making a cup of coffee, you really want to be drinking it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Jon Kabat-Zinn says in his book Coming to Our Senses that most
people every morning, people take a shower, or they bathe or something, but most people
are in the shower, but they never actually get to experience a shower because they're
thinking they're already in the office.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They're already in the office.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then
everything you do is a means to the end. The end is always the next moment in the future,
which never arrives because all you ever have in life is the present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Present moment. So you're constantly frustrated, creating anxiety
for yourself and stress.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Stress.
Page 33 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you can't just be present now.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Present
now. And the power can only flow into your life when you are present completely, totally, with
what you're doing now. And this is why most people's lives do not have this power because
they're always living for the next thing, so they devalue the present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. That's why walking up the stairs, being with the stairs,
teaches you how to be present with other things.
then gradually you can be present with when you are with other human beings. You can be
totally present in whatever work you do so that the work is not a means to an end, but you
are totally there with what you do. Your attention.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I see Cinda from Oregon has been waiting to talk to us. Cinda,
hi, from Oregon. What is your question?
CINDA: Hello Oprah, hello Eckhart.
CINDA: Hi, hey I am so grateful for this opportunity to have Eckhart answer my question.
Thank you for having me participate in this. And Eckhart, I need you to know that I am
grateful that when you tried acid, that you preferred enlightenment more than that because
my children are upstairs listening in on this.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause he was going to say, and interrupted him, you were saying, "I
don't recommend it."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, I don't.
(AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE ): No I don't.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Why?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because
it's, you will always fall back. It's not, you always fall back to the old state of consciousness,
and it's almost, I experienced as almost a violent thing being done to me.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, good. I wanted to say that for the children upstairs, Cinda.
CINDA: Yeah, thank you Oprah.
Page 34 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, your question.
CINDA: Well, my question is this. And, you know, first of all, I also want to tell Eckhart that his
words in his book have moved me to my core. And I am a new person because of it. And not
only because of my internal changes, but the way that I am in the world that I live. And I am
so grateful for that. Thank you, Eckhart. I want to ask a question, it's something that we've
already talked about a little bit tonight, but I feel it's important enough to bring up again. And
I believe that the way that Eckhart answers this question might just be the catalyst to change
that we need in order to save our planet and ourselves. On pages 20 and 21 in the book, you
talk about, in an ever-changing world or an ever-changing environment, a species needs to
either adapt or they will die out. And then you go on to say, and I quote, "that humanity is
now faced with a stark choice: Evolve or die." My question to you is this: When you say
"evolve or die," do you mean that literally, and it sounds like you might, or do you mean that
metaphorically, which I hope?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "Evolve or
die" refers to humanity as a whole, whether humanity survives as a species. Even if humanity
did not survive as a species, no gain in consciousness is ever lost within the totality of
consciousness. So the fact that we are here, and consciousness, which is really all that
exists, we are only forms that come out of consciousness. And consciousness is the
evolutionary process of the universe.
And we are here together as part of this evolution of consciousness, which comes through
the human form. Consciousness can use and does use millions and billions of other forms
and evolves through that out of the unmanifested. In the unmanifested, consciousness is
already perfect, or God, you could say. Timeless perfect, eternal, no change. And then you
have this so-called manifested dimension, which some ancient teachers have described as a
kind of dream, which is what it is. But for some reason consciousness wants to come into
this world of form. And in this world of form, it evolves. So one could say that gradually,
more and more Godwhich is another world for consciousnessGod comes into this world
and a form gradually emerges. God comes there you, God comes through me, God comes
through you. Gradually, more and more. The density of form lessens. And this is what's
happening. So even if humanity didn't make it, consciousness, the gain in consciousness
that has already been achieved by those human beings that have become conscious, may
consciousexpress itself much more easilyat least in some other form because,
ultimately, we are not the form, we are not the body that we see. You are not the form that is
sitting there. In essence, you beyond, you are the formulas, consciousness itself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're the stillness.

Temporarily assuming this particular form. And, of course, the form eventually is going to
dissolve anyway because then consciousness moves on. Consciousness is continuous
evolution. Continuous metamorphosis, it's a wonderful process. So there's nothing to be
Page 35 of 43
scared of because, ultimately, when I say "evolve or die," I'm only speaking humanity as a
species. But, ultimately, nothing dies. It's only a transformation of consciousness, a
transformation of form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A transformation of form, yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of form,
so there is no death ultimately.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you do mean the end of our human species as we know it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that is
a possibility. But the fact that we are here tonight should give us hope and confidence that
humanity is going to make it because this is growing, and not just this teaching, the other
spiritual alive spiritual teachings. There is an enormous awakening happening on the planet.
So nobody knows, nobody knows, I don't know the answer whether humanity is going to
make it. But I do feel confident now, more so perhaps than before, that we are going to make
it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, yes because that's one of my favorite quotes, too, Cinda, that
we are, "A significant portion of the earth's population will soon recognize, if they haven't
already done so, that humanity is now faced with the stark choice: Evolve or die." Thank you
for raising that question in such a beautiful way, Cinda.
CINDA: Thank you Oprah, thank you Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks for joining us. Casey in Asheville, North Carolina, is on
Skype and has a question also for Eckhart about The Secret. Casey?
CASEY: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Mr. Tolle. I was debating about whether to read this book because it
looked very deep to me, to be honest, and I have a 1-year-old and I hang out with her all day,
and I didn't know if I was ready for it. But Oprah, when I saw your show on The Secret and the
bubble man and all that good stuff, I thought, "I have got to read that book" because you
talked about itin that show. So my question is this: When I put out into the universe, when I
ask God for things, for hopes and dreams and material things, and a lot of times I get them.
Those material things, I think they may be coming from the ego, and I just wonder, Mr. Tolle,
is that wrong?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay, well,
it's not wrong. You can always easily recognize that something is coming from ego because
when you get it, it doesn't satisfy you. That's always a sign that it's coming from ego. It may
satisfy you for a little while and then, "Oh, I need more. I need something else." So that's a
good learning process. You can manifest things, and if you see "Oh, these not satisfying," it
must have been the ego. So there's nothing wrong with manifesting things. The only illusion
would be to expect things to provide some ultimate satisfaction in your life. Things can't do
Page 36 of 43
that. The world of form can't ultimately satisfy you. You can enjoy the world of form, but the
true satisfaction doesn't come from there. The world can't do that. The world can't make you
happy. Things cannot give you happiness.
happiness comes from a deeper place within you that you can only access in the present
moment. So it's fine. We live in the world of things. Why not manifest things as part of the
game of, in this life, the game of form? But if you expect some kind of satisfaction, then you
will always be frustrated.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which is going to be, I think we get into that a lot in Chapter 3,
Chapter 2 and Chapter 3. Not allowing yourself.
CASEY: Oh, I loved Chapter 2.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Loved Chapter 2.
CASEY: So good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not allowing yourself to be defined by the things. To be in the world
and not of it is how I describe it. To have things. I have lots of beautiful things, and I love
beautiful things. And later on, in one of the chapters, he talks about when you say that you're
not defined by things, what happens to you if you were to lose any of those things. The
depth of your, you know, grieving or sorrow or, you know, so-called suffering determines
how attached you were to those things.
for many people
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can say, "It doesn't matter to me," until somebody steals your
car.
right. For many people, that's a very important lesson when suddenly they do lose
something. It can be a wonderful spiritual lesson. And then you, perhaps you'd suffer, and
then your attachment gets broken, and suddenly you go beyond the attachment. So there
have been people who've lost everything and suddenly become free of the ego because the
ego had nothing left to identify with. So this can happen. And another important thing to
mention with regard to manifestation is the basis for your life is the present moment. You
need to first of all, the very basis for everything is to come to an acceptance of this moment
as it is. Gratitude is part of that. Of course, we'll be talking about that in more detail. So that
there is neediness when you manifest. It's the neediness that's dissatisfaction, for example,
Page 37 of 43
in your life. If there's dissatisfaction, that is not a good place, not a good starting point for
changing your life. The ego may tell you that but it isn't. You need to find a place of
acceptance. Not
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow, that's powerful.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No matter
where you are, come to terms and become friendly with the present moment. Because if you
do not become friendly with the present moment, you're not friendly with life because life is
only now. If you're not friendly with life, life cannot support you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But did you just say that being in a place of dissatisfactionbeing
dissatisfied is not a good time or place to change?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's first
you can see the totality of the situation. Let's say, I use the example in The Power of Now, you
are stuck in the mud. You're walking somewhere and suddenly you get deep in the mud up to
your knees. You wouldn't say, "Okay, I'm satisfied with this situation." You can't be satisfied
with this situation, and you know that you need to get out. But you say, "Okay. Here I am
stuck in the mud, and I need to get out." There's no
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cursing the mud.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Negative
reaction, cursing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Damn this mud.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or a

struggle against. Because if you struggle against, you get in deeper.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're going to get more mud on you.
very important, perhaps one of the key things here in this, or in any spiritual teaching, is the
question that you need to ask yourself as much as possible. You can even put it on your
bathroom mirror or some other places where you often look. And that question is, "What is
my relationship with the present moment?" And to become very conscious of that, and then
you find out you become alert. "Okay, what's my relationship with this moment? Is there
negativity, in which case I'm fighting, I'm making the present moment into an enemy."
Page 38 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. What you say is, "What you resist persists."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you must make peace with the moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Doesn't mean you have to approve the situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you must make peace with the moment in order to get yourself
out of it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause resisting is only going to cause more of it.
that's absolutely vital. So ease with what is. The "isness" of this moment is already as it
already is as it is. The ego doesn't understand that, but you can't really argue with what is
because it already is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you must accept whatever it is first before you begin to change
it, that's what you're saying.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): There must be acceptance.

Acceptance of what is first. Then action comes out of the acceptance.
It no longer comes out of resistance.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Which is a
totally different energy flows into what you do when it comes out of an acceptance of this is
what is and then action happens that is actually empowered by life itself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think that explained it, Casey.
Page 39 of 43
CASEY I think so too. Thank you so much, that was amazing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. I just wanted to go back to spirituality and
religion for a few moments in the few moments we have remaining because I know that's still
such a major issue with so many of you. And you say on page 17 that "the more you make
your thoughts or beliefs into your identity, the more cut off you are from the spiritual
dimension from yourself." You also say on page 18: "How 'spiritual' you are has nothing to
do with what you believe"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "but everything to do with your state of consciousness."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. How
spiritual you are reads, "How present are you at this moment? Are you in your thoughts, or
are you there as the awareness behind your thoughts?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which is your spirit.
Stillness. So the, often in the newspapers and the media, they always ask, "What do you
believe in?" That is not an important question, what I believe in. It's the important question is,
"Are you present at this moment?" Not what your belief structures are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think people want to know what you believe so they can label it and
decide whether they are going to like you accept you or not.
they want to know, "Do you believe the same thing that I believe because if you don't, you're
my enemy."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You're laughing at that, okay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it's
mad, it's better to laugh at madness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, yes. I just wanted to mention this person, Maria from Doha,
Qatar. Just want to say Doha, Qatar.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In what
country?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Qatar.
Page 40 of 43
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Qatar,
okay Qatar.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She says, "Do you think that people are willing and ready to set
aside a time required in each day? Is this possible in a global sense? Would anyone who
thinks their life is fine be willing to waste time just sitting in order to raise their
consciousness level?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, better
I would change the question a little bit to make it more vital and more relevant just ask, "Am I
ready?" The only question you really need to answer is, "Am I ready to do this?" You don't
need to know whether other people are ready to do it. Only you can have the answer, "Am I
ready to be still?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very good, Mr. Qatar.

Am I ready?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): See, that's
the vital question and only you can answer that. I can't answer that. I can't answer that. Are
you ready? Or are you so fascinated by the things of this world and your mind that perhaps
you need to pursue those things for a few more years until you suffer a bit more, and then
you're ready.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, yes. When we were doing rehearsal for this yesterday, we were
up on Skype and someone said, "I'm 28 years old, and I don't think need to be awakened. So
what can I get from this book?" I go, don't waste your time. Go read another book.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. If you don't think you need to be awakened then
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. If you don't think you need to be awakened, then....
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, that's
right. So the time is not yet there for everybody, and that's fine too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What about the people who are struggling, particularly in this first
chapter with the book?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The first
chapter is a little bit more conceptual than the other chapters and less practical. I wanted to
give a general context for where the book fits into the general context of spirituality on the
Page 41 of 43
planet or transformation of consciousness on the planet. So just read through. There are
already very important pointers in the first chapter if you can see them. We'll run through the
whole book, presence and so on. Just carry on, not only the first chapter, anywhere in the
book. Don't expect to immediately understand everything. That's not necessary. And
besides, understanding the book is not the essential thing, it's secondary. The first thing is
to experience the truth of it rather than conceptual understanding, the essence of what's in
the book but, in any case, cannot be understood conceptually. For example, presence.
People say, "Can you explain to me what presence is?" I've already given a few pointersto
go beyond that and give further definitions. You can only know what presence is by being
present. You must have at least a glimpse of presence whichand this is why it's not
understanding that's the essence. So when you don't understand, just read on. It's a
process; reading this book is a process.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And this book, as you say, again, as I said in the beginning, this
isn't about creating more information for you to believe in.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you don't want to be anybody's guru.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, no. So
it's only, it's not through your mind really that you can get it. Anybody who finds this book
meaningful, and this is the important thing, is already awakening. If you're not awakening
already, this book will be completely meaningless or any other truly alive spiritual book will
be meaningless. You won't understand it all. You'll say, "There's not much there. I don't
know, it doesn't make sense to me." If it does make sense, especially if you feel something
from within responding and just say, "Wow, yeah."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I think also too for all of you who've joined us, there are a lot
of people who are expressing, they're getting it, they're awakening, they're feeling more alive
and excited. And then you want to go share it with somebody else who perhaps hasn't read
the book, doesn't feel the same as you, and then they feel frustrated.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I guess you would say the same thing you say to the woman in
Qatarjust worry about yourself.
so if other
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Concern yourself with yourself.
Page 42 of 43
right. And if friends or relatives say, "Doesn't make sense to me," that's fine. Perhaps in a few
years time they will be ready, we don't know. So it's to accept that it's not yet for everybody.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Accept it first.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Accept.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Accept.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Accept.
Don't demand or don't make it into an ideology and then try to convince people that they
must be present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. I got it. Before we say goodbye, I want to thank you for being
with me, all of you out there. This is just the most exciting thing I have ever done, being able
to talk with you all and share this kind of information that allows all of us to get closer to who
we really are so that we can do or honor our life's purpose and calling here while we're on
earth. We'll be here next Monday again at 8 p.m. Central. If you want to experience this first
class again or tell a friend who missed it, our webcast will be available on demand tomorrow
for free here at Oprah.com. You will also be able to update your workbook and get started on
Chapter 2. And if you want to download the podcast of this class, you can do that too at
Oprah.com and at iTunes. Next week, woo! Moving out of the conceptual Chapter 1 into the
good stuff.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Moving on. The next week we'll be talking about the ego. Wow. We'll
see you next Monday night. Thank you, Eckhart.
Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And thank you so much to all of you around the world. Goodnight.
Page 43 of 43
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome to our second New Earth webcast.
It is one of my greatest joys to unite all of us around the world and share the possibilities of
awakening together. Along with a multitude of North Americans, we also have students
registered in this class from countries like Afghanistan, Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Croatia,
Denmark, Egypt, Ireland, South Africa and even a few of you from Zanzibar, I hear. Thank
you. Since last week, 1,860,000 of you have streamed or downloaded our first class. I just
want you to know it's always available if this pioneering effort again tonight should break up
and we have webcast problems, you can go to Oprah.com tomorrow or iTunes and begin
streaming afternoon. Well, for the next nine weeks, author and spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle
and I planned to be right here in our virtual classroom on Oprah.com Monday nights at 8
p.m. Central to discuss each chapter and talk with you about it. And you can type in your
questions on the right side of your screen and send that to us instantly. And throughout this
class, we're going to also talk directly to students via Skypeso coolfree software that
allows you to make Internet and video phone calls all over the world. Welcome again, Eckhart
Tolle.
Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, last week, you shared with us how there are tools that we can
use to bring ourself into the present moment. And you were saying from that first chapter
thatand throughout this bookthat there is only the present moment. And you were
saying that if we would allow ourselves to take ourselves out of our mind and just go to our
breath that we could learn presence that way. That's how you begin to learn presence.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And I
suggest that we all do that right now, which is to say we are taking our attention right now
away from where it usually dwells, which is in the head and in the thinking mind, and we
direct our attention to our breath. And the simple question that one could ask is -- or you
could ask yourself is, "Am I still breathing? Let's just check if I'm still breathing." Now, how do
you find out whether you're still breathing? You have to take your attention away from the
thinking mind
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): and
sense yourself breathing right now.
Page 1 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And as you
are taking attention away from the thinking mind, which always works using past and future,
it strains itself by always generating past and future thinking
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): you also
enter the present moment when you take attention away from thinking, direct attention to
your breathing. You're always breathing, but usually you're not aware of it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And now
we are bringing awareness to it, which means we are taking attention away from thinking. So
we are not losing consciousness. We are very conscious, but thinking much less or perhaps
not at all. So let's do this now. This has never been done on television. It's unprecedented,
but we can do it here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yes. Silence is usually not good on TV.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But let's try it
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes
.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): for the next 10 seconds.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): 10

seconds. Just be aware of yourself breathing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. I'm still alive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I just checked in.
Page 2 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Perhaps
even more alive when you're engaged in thinking. There is a deeper sense of aliveness there
that you are just beginning to touch when you get in touch with thatthese inner processes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I think that's pretty cool that all around the world, and all of
these different countries I just named, that all us come together in silence for a moment just
to give our minds a break.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, this is the most exciting chapter, until you get to the
next chapter. I think Chapter 2 is the most exciting chapter. As we said last week, Chapter 1
is pretty conceptual, you would agree?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're the one who wrote it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Pretty conceptual. But in Chapter 2, titled, "Ego: The Current State of
Humanity," we get into, I think, a way of understanding ourselves, that perhaps so many
people were not aware of until beginning to read this. So I would just like to just get right into
this chapter. When you say, "When you don't cover up the world with words and labels, a
sense of the miraculous returns to your life that was lost a long time ago when humanity,
instead of using thought, became possessed by thought." What do you mean by that?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now,
usuallyand everybody can verify this in their own experiencewe experience the
phenomenal world, whatever we experience. We don't experience it directly. It is overlaid with
self-talk, which are the mental processes. So as you go about your life, you encounter
situations, you meet people, you do your work. And most of the time, there is a voice in the
head, which is the, it can be called the self-talk, it can be called the inner voice.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But it is the
conditioned thought processes, and they are commenting and interpreting and mentally
labeling whatever it is you're perceiving or experiencing. So there's always a running
commentary in people's heads.
Page 3 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So they
don't relate to the world directly and immediately, but through the veil of the self-talk.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So when
and this greatly decreases the sense of aliveness, the sense of how you relate to the
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): to the
outer world, and especially to human being. For example, if every time I meet another human
being, I immediately have certain thoughts and judgments in my head that come up the
moment I meet a person, I'm already thinking something about this person.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. You've already labeled.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I've already
labeled, and so I'm no longer really in communication with that person. I'm in communication
with my own labels.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And what you said to us last week and you also say in this
chapter, "Even a stone, and more easily a flower or a bird, could show you the way back to
God, and the Source, to yourself. When you look at it or hold it and let it be without imposing
a word or mental label." And what you were saying last week is that if you can learn to do that
in nature first, stop labeling things, just feel the essence and presence of things, it allows
you then to be able to gradually move into doing that with people.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because so often, we don't engage in presence with people. We've
already labeled them and labeled the situation. And so we're reacting out of the situations
and not out of what's actually happening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're saying.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. We've
already put people into mental boxes.
Page 4 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so we
no longer experience them as in their full aliveness. We have desensitized ourselves through
this continuous mental conceptualization. We have desensitized ourselves to the aliveness of
other human beings. Because the moment I put a label on another human being, I've already
desensitized myself to their life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you say, "The quicker you are in attaching verbal or mental
labels to things, people, or situations, the more"I'm on page 26, everybody, at the
bottom"the more shallow and lifeless your reality becomes, and the more deadened you
become to reality, the miracle of life that continuously unfolds within and around you."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I go
for a walk every day in a little forest at home and, often, I encounter people who are jogging
or friends going for a walk. And most people aresome are listening to things in their
headphones, whatever it is.
they're talking to their friends.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And very
few people are actually truly present there as I walk through this beautiful forest.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this is
a spiritual practice, and I recommend that people, whenever they go out into nature,
especially, practice being very alert
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): so that
they can perceive the trees, the flowers, the plants, the sky
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): without
too much mental interference.
Page 5 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's so interesting because when I used to run all the time, I'd
have all those people who would run with their headphones and they'd say, "What are you
listening to?" And even now working out, I like just being and feeling the, you know, my feet
on the pavement and, you know, taking it all in. I like just sort of being with myself. And I find
that the headphones and all that is a distraction for me.
that's a great practice.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a good practice.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you
can, even without leaving your home, you can practice even if you have a potted plants at
home in your room. Look at the plant just for a few seconds, 10 seconds, 20 seconds, and
just bring your attention to the sense perception and truly look without eventually saying
anything about it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Well, Heather from Vancouver Island, Canada, is on
Skype. Hello, Heather.
HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hello, Oprah. I'm honored to be here speaking with you
today.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This isI think this is fun. Okay. Okay, go right ahead.
HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Mr. Tolle, I'd like to commend you on a spectacular book.
HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I found of it thought-provoking, and questions arose for me.
For example, when we get free of the ego, where does that energy go?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ooh, good question.
Page 6 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Mm-hmm.
Good question, yes, thank you. The energy that was used up by the ego. Now, what is the ego
basically consists of compulsive conditioned thought processes, so that we are not aware of.
So we identify so closely with our stream of thinking that we don't even know that we are
thinking. So all this energy is used up in continuous, to a large extent, useless thinking. Even
psychologists have found out that 90even psychologists who were not interested in
spiritual thingsthey looked at the nature of human thought, and they discovered that 98
percent or 99 percent of our thoughts are quite useless and repetitive.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They're
not really needed. So where does that energy go? That energy that then becomes freed from
thinking, it become presence, which is a new dimensionwell, not entirely new because
almost everybody has had glimpses of presence, but it is a dimension of consciousness that
most people still don't know exists.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And really,
this is the essence of the whole teaching.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody's had glimpses of it. I'm sure you have too, Heather,
and everybody whose listening to us. Everybody's had just that little moment where
everything's okay, where you had just a moment of bliss, where there's nothing particularly
going on that would cause you to feel that, but there is a sense of an awareness
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that causes you to have, as you said, a glimpse of
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): something bigger than yourself.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It can
come accidentally.

Sometimes, it comes into people's lives accidentally, and, suddenly, you feel a deep sense of
inner peace and aliveness.
Page 7 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And all rightness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And all rightness.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And not
because something in particular has happened.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Happened. Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, it's
there's no external cause for it. It's causeless joy, one could say.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's happened to you, Heather? Has that happened to you?
HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Occasionally.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, occasionally, yeah. And then you wonder, "How did that
happen, so I can make that happen again?"
HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It can also
happen when you're engaged in very strenuous physical activity.
that requires all your attention, like climbing a mountain.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Mm-hmm.
need to bewhen you're climbing a wall, you need to be totally present every moment.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you lose
presence and start thinking about what you're going to do when you get down from the
mountain, you'll probably have an accident. So certain activities, very strenuous activities,
Page 8 of 61
require absolute presence. And some people become actually addicted to dangerous
activities because they feel much more alive in those moments.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Cause you need to be fully present.
reason why they feel it's so much more alive is because they're thinking almost nothing at all.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you have to be present
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're
absolutely there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): in order to climb a mountain or to do strenuous activities. Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Your
attention is absolutely there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. All right, Heather, did that answer your question?
HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes, it did. Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you so much from Vancouver Island, Canada, Heather.
Well, Heather introduces this whole idea of the illusory self that you talk about on page 27.
You say, "The word 'I' embodies the greatest error and the deepest truth, depending upon
how it is used." What do you mean by that?
Usually, when people say "I," they're referring to what I call "me and my story"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): which is
your personal history that you identify with as yourself. So everybody has a story, of course,
because everybody has a past. Now, most people are completely identified with the story that
is their successes, their failures
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): things
that happened to them
Page 9 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): things
that they acquired. They see themselves as a victim. They see themselves as successful,
whatever it is.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There is a
certain story that develops.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because when you ask me who am I, that's what I'm going to tell
you, my story
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): my successes, my failures, where I was born, what I did, what my
mother did or didn't do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's who we think we are.
right. Now, what I'm saying is, and what all spiritual teachings point to is that that, that
ultimately is not who you are in your essence. It is no more than a collection of memories,
and, of course, memories are thoughts. It is no more than a bundle of thoughts that you
identify with and that you believe to be who you are. So that becomes an entity almost, a
mind-made entity, a selfa sense of self
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): like a
phantom entity that lives with you that you then refer to as "myself." So you have me and
myself. For example, in Greek mythology, we have the interesting story of Narcissus.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Narcissus
was a gentleman who livedthis how the story goes. Mythology, of course, always embodies
some truths that goes beyond the personal.
Page 10 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Narcissus
happened to be walking somewhere, and he sawsuddenly, he looked down, and he saw his
own image in a pool of water. At a time, of course, when they didn't have mirrors at the time,
so it was a surprise for him to see himself reflected in a pool of water. And the story goes
that he fell in love with himself.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): My view is
thatactually, a better translation isof the story is that he became obsessed with himself.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that,
to me, signals the beginning of the human ego. It is to have a mental image in your head,
ultimately, not out there, that's just the story. A mental image in your head ofthat you
regard as yourself. And that mental image is the mind-made me that consists of memories,
things that happened to you, thingsfailures and successes. Opinions, all kinds of things, I
describe them in the book, together make up this "I."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, if I'm not the memories and I'm not the things that happened
to me and I'm not my story, then who am I?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's the
question. And, in fact, "who am I?" is actually a question that in some spiritual, eastern
spiritual teachings is used as a kind of mantra or pointer that you repeat to yourself in a
meditation setting. So you sit down, and you ask yourself, "Who am I?" And you're not
supposed to answer that question. You leave the blank after the question. In that blank, in
that empty space, if it works, if this practice works as it should, you suddenly get a sense of
your own presence
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): that has
nothing to do with your thought processes. Your own sense of conscious presence, your
being-ness, your presence, which part of which is actually also your physical presence, but
it's a sense of aliveness.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Every cell
of the body becomes part of that sense of presence and aliveness. So, as we state here, we
can perhaps see if we can get a little glimpse of that. A glimpse of our own presence, which,
again, is nothing to do with thinking. It is deeper than thinking.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How do we get a glimpse of it sitting here?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We get a
glimpse of it. I recommend thatsee if you can feel the inner aliveness in your body as you
sit here. Is there any sense in which you can feel that there is an aliveness in every cell of the
body? Now, if people
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But isn't my mind thinking that?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Your mind
may be thinking, "Yes, of course, I'm alive."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like in the book you say, "feel the aliveness in your hands." Okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When I go to feel the aliveness in my hand, I can't feel the aliveness
in my hand unless I had a mind in which to feel that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. So if
you close your eyes and you hold out your hand like this
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): and then
youthe question
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You feel thisthe vibrating sensation in your hand.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. You
ask yourselffor example, I always have this exercise with people who have no idea what I'm
talking about when I talk about inner body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Well, that would be a lot of people listening right now. Go
ahead.
hold out your hand
close your eyes and then ask yourself, "How, without touching anything and without moving
Page 12 of 61
my hand, how can I know whether my hand is still here? How can I know that?" Now, your
mind might say, "Of course, I know it because I remember seeing it a few seconds ago."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And I feel it right here.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That said,
you need toyou feel the inside is alive. A subtle sense of warmth or tingling is a subtle
sense of aliveness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, right. Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That is the
beginning of getting in touch with your inner body, the energy field.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But I need my brain to do that, though.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You need
your conscious attention to do that
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): but not
thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not thinking.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. That's
the difference. You need attention, which is consciousness.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, you
need consciousness to feel it, but the consciousness then moves from where it usually is,
just as it did when we started today with becoming aware of our breathing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Our breathing.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, the
consciousness moves into the hand. And if you can feel your hand, if you can feel one hand,
you can also feel the other hand. If you can feel both hands at the same time, you can
perhaps also feel your both arms.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And if you
can feel the arms, perhaps you can also feel your feet.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And as I begin to feel that, and everybody who's with us
around the world feels that, then what?
means, the inner body, we also could call this is, what we are doing is we are practicing
embodiment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This keeps
you in the present moment. It keeps you present. It keeps you out of your thought
processes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Out of your thought processes, thinking about what I need to do
tomorrow.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And it
takes you out of ego because the ego lives in your thought processes, consists of thought
processes.
moment you enter the inner aliveness of the body, you sensethere is a sense of self that is
deeper than thinking. You are that aliveness that you feel. You are that alive presence. And
soand this applies whether your past or your personal history is a happy one or an
unhappy one. For most people, it's a very mixed story.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But no
personal history's entirely happy.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): With very
few examples. And then you just have to wait a little while until it becomes unhappy again.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even the people who say, "I had a great childhood."
Page 14 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. No.
Personal histories are all very problematic and it's notand people think, "Oh, it's only me."
It's everybody. Everybody's personal history
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's what being a human is.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So to be

able to step out and find a dimension that has nothing to do with your past and your history
or whether you are a miserable failure in the eyes of the world or your thought processes or
a greaterit has nothing to do with that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love it when you say, "What you usually refer to when you say 'I'"
I'm on page 28"is not who you are. A monstrous act of reductionism"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): which is a great way of putting it. "The infinite depth of who you
are is confused with a sound produced by the vocal chords of the thought of 'I' in your mind
and whatever the 'I' has identified with. So what do the usual 'I' and the related 'me,' 'my,' or
'mine' refer to?" You talk about when a young child first learns to identify "my" toy.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That's
the beginning of the ego, when the child starts to identify with an external object. And you
can see when the toy is taken away from a child after this identification has happened, after it
wasthe child thought of it as "my toy," there's an enormous amount of pain in the child.
The child will start screaming and saying, "It's mine, it's mine." So the toy has been taken
away. Why is it so painful for the child? Because it's the beginning of the ego. The ego has
lost something that it had identified with.
misperception of who one is. And so it's very painful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The child thinks that the toy has something to do with them.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Who they
are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's who they are.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's the
identification.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's why kids go into spasms
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): over a toy, and you're going, "It's just a toy."
two days later, they lose interest in it.
that's the beginning of it. And then
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's because they think the toy is them or it's a part of them
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They think
it's
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): it's a part of them?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It adds
something to their sense of self
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): of who
they are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you take it away, they think it is.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Then
they'd beit's like losing a limb
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): because
it was became so much part of who they thought they were.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. In the child's mind, "That's a part of me."
Page 16 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then we grow up
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, of
course, the process continues.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When we grow up, our toys just get bigger.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They get
bigger. And
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We cry because I lost my
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Lost
external possessions.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But, of
course, possessions is an important part of all the things that people identify with that
become part of their identity. But there are many other things apart from possessions.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): For
example, social position, how others see you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you say other things the "I" identifies with is "nationality,
race, religion, profession mother, father, husband, wife, and so on."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Roles they
play.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Roles they play.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Opinions
they hold. You can see, for example, when
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But these are roles. They are actual roles, you know?
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People are mothers and fathers and
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): you know?
now, it's important, of course, to fulfill the functions that you have in this world and your
mother and father are important functions (unintelligible).
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And your nationality and your race, your religion.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That'sits
fine.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You identify with those things.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's fine to
honor all these things. But if that's all you have, then you are lost in a surface reality that you
always turns intobecomes painful and turns into conflict.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can
see, for example, when people are discussing, and if somebody questions somebody's
opinion, very often, immediately they become defensive.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sometimes
even aggressive or start shouting.
because opinions, again, is another thing that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because "my" beliefs.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "Mine."
That they identify with a thought they hold. A mental position. And then anybody who
questions that mental position, immediately becomes your enemy because you believe
you're being attacked. You're not being attacked, but the image that you have of yourself, the
opinion is part of that. The ego believes it's being attacked.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you're saying that whenever you can see that that's what you're
thinking, when you can see the illusion of that, the moment you can see the illusion of it:
"These are thoughts in my head. This is something Ive told myself I believe. This is
something Ive told myself that I identify with." That when you can see that, the seer or the
observer is who you really are.
the seer or observer is the presence of the awareness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you're saying there's two of us at all times.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. There
is the formless awareness and there is the form that a thought becomesthought is an
energy formation.
you've just mentioned the essence is to be there as the awareness when it happens.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right, I'm going to go to Victoria. Victoria lives in Maui, joins us
via Skype. Victoria, hello.
VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Aloha.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Aloha. Can't wait to get there.
VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you, Oprah and Mr. Tolle, for this awesome
opportunity. I was diagnosed over 10 years ago with systemic lupus and RA. And I've been
really active person. But two years ago, I gave up my business. My health deteriorated. And I
got an aha! moment in this book on page 51. I never realized that I had unconsciously
clinged to my illnessand I'm taking this the out of the book cause I put it to myself
because it had actually become the most important part of who I perceived myself to be. How
can I undo this identity? And how can I stay focused when I'm in excruciating pain from the
illness to have the peace constantly and not just fleeing moments?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's real.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's real.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now,
the most important thing has already happened, which is you have become aware that up to
now, you had been identified with the idea of "I am sufferer of such and such an illness." So
the illness had become thought forms in your head, and you had identified with these
thought forms and took them to be who you are. And now, the most important thing, your
question is still valid, but realize that the most important thing has already happened, which
is the awareness has arisen. So you havethere's a space now between yourself and your
thought processes and the image of yourself as a sick person. Now, another thing, of
course, in addition you can do is, for example, no longer talk about your illness to other
people except when you visit your doctor. That doesn'tthen otherwise, the more you talk
about it to your friends, acquaintances, family members, the more you keep that process
going.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Empower it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She empowers the disease.
right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if you
can't just can take the decision now that from now on, "I'm not going to talk about it. And if
people ask me about my illness"which they're going to do because they're used, perhaps
used to talking about ityou say, "Well, it'sI'm doing all I can to find healing in this. And I'm
making good progress." Go as far as that and don't encourage people to ask you questions
and just say that's how it is. No more mentioning my illness. So you begin on the external
level, not to talk about it anymore except when, of course, when you need to talk to doctors.
And that will have also certain influence on your thought processes. And then you can
gradually also refrain from thinking of yourself as a sick person, and perhaps give less
thought to your illness and focus attention more on well-being. Now, you may ask, "Well, but
if I don't feel good, if I feel it, how can I give attention to well-being?" You can still do that.
One way is to see well-being around you in nature because nature is just an embodiment of
well-being.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you have a lot of opportunity to do that in Maui.
Page 20 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're in
the best place. And also there's well-being even if certain parts of your body feel unwell or
painful. And again, we are coming back to thesensing the inner body. There are always
parts of your body where you can still find well-being, in your hands, your arms, wherever.
Take some attention into the body and see, "Where can I most strongly feel, get a sense of
well-being in the body?" And then take your attention there. So you choose to direct
attention to well-being rather than dwelling on the idea of illness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That does not mean the pain is going to go away, cause she said
she has physical pain.
NEW EARTH"): The pain may still be there. That'sbut not as far as the pain is concerned,
pain unfortunately requires surrender. You need to see if the pain is there, so that you do
not generate an additional level of psychological pain, which complains about being in
physical pain. Because if the mind stops to complain about being in physical pain
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You have
two levels of pain. You have psychological pain and physical pain.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Leave
physical painwith physical pain, you justright now, this is how it is. It's there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't resist it?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Don't
resist it. Do what you can as far as treatment goes, of course. But don't resist it, don't create
psychological pain on top of the physical pain.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you following that, Victoria?
VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Got it, yeah. Excellent.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Got it. Makes sense to you?
VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): You know, it really does. It does, yes.
VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And I do have a little garden in the back that I go out to a lot.
Page 21 of 61
because there is well-being all around you and you can almostone could say you absorb it
fromif you don'tif you canthey contemplate all these plans and intense aliveness
around you, contemplate that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, e-mail us in the weeks to come
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and let us know how this works for you, Victoria.
VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I will. I will, Oprah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. Victoria from Maui.
VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have Ann from Ireland on the phone with a question. Ann, hello.
ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah. How are you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Middle of the night there?
ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): It's 1:30 in the morning.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, thank you.
ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And hi, Eckhart.
ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): This book has been so inspirational. I have three young children
5, 7 and 9 years old. And motherhood is one of the things that's motivated me to find ways
to be happier with myself. Cause it's so evident that children are influenced by what they
experience with you rather than what you actually tell them.
ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And I see that the stress of my life has even had an impact on their
health. And I found the ideas in A New Earth helpful in this way because I'm practicing being
present with them and really enjoying my time with them. Not thinking about work and
thinking about the things I should be doing around the house, but just spending time with
them and being with them. And I'm seeing that the individuals that they really are and who I
am. Are there other ways to introduce these ideas to small children like that?
Page 22 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah,
that's a very good question. Though you've already mentioned the most important thing is
your own state of consciousness at home because the children absorb from you, your
predominant state of consciousness. And if you can be present with children at home,
present means to give them full attention. When you are present, you don't want anything
from them. You just give them attention, which could be listening. It could be watching them
as they play. Now, many parents don't do that. They give them attention, but it's always
wanting something. They say, "Do this, don't do that. Now, this needs to get done." So that
isI call that form-based attention.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That has
its place, of course. Of course, the children need to brush their teeth and need to tidy up
their room. This is fine. It has its place. But more is needed. Your child wants to be
acknowledged in his or her being. So it's vital to give the child conscious attention at home.
Give the child space to be. Doesn't need to be long, just a few minutes every day. Be there, be
present for the child. That's vital. Another thing that is important is come to a stage in a
young child's life when they start asking, they wantthe mind wants to absorb concept, so
they start asking what things are called.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "What's
this, Mum? What's that, what's that?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Of course, yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so at
that point, usually, of course, you have to tell them, "This is a tree or this is that and that's
that."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Rabbit.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bird.
Page 23 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the
important thing is so that the child does not at that stage immediately lose him or herself in
concepts and then believe that the moment they know that this is a bird, the danger is the
moment you know that it is a bird, you're no longer really looking at the bird. You have the
concept of bird in your head and then you just briefly glance at a bird, and immediately the
concept "bird" comes into your mind, and so you become deadened to the aliveness that is
there in the bird.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that is
being the unfortunately the fate of all of us growing up. We became lost in a world of
conceptualization.
thatthis doesn't happen to the young child. Of course, you have to tell the child what it is
called.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But I would
suggest, for example, not to say to the child, "This is an oak tree." Say, "This is called an oak
tree" because it's not an oak tree. The "oak tree" is just a word. When we lose ourselves in
concept, we mistake a word for the thing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For the thing, got it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When I say,
"This is an oak tree," it's not an oak tree. The "oak tree" is just a word. So I lose my
relationship with the oak tree when I believe now I know what it is. And every time for the rest
of my life
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you believe you know what it is, it loses its magic, its
essence.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It loses
themagic is a good word. The world loses its miraculous quality
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): and its
aliveness. So after you've given the child the concept, encourage the child to continue to
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experience the tree, encourage the child to touch the bark of the tree and to look at the
leaves. See how the sunshinehow the sun shines through the leaves of the tree. Encourage
the child to continuously still experience the reality of the tree rather than dismiss it for the
concept.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got that, Ann? You got that?
ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, I can see that'd be very helpful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that would be helpful. Thank you very much. Let's move on to
content and structure of the ego, on page 34, everyone, if you're following tonight's class as
we move through Chapter 2. It's very exciting when you really get these concepts of the ego.
You say that there's "the egoic mind is completely conditioned by the past. Its conditioning is
twofold: It consists of content and structure." What do you mean by that?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Content is
whatever it is that you identify with and then you take to be yourself. So that varies, depends
on what culture you live in.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It depends
on your up bringing. It depends on your personal circumstances.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And content is different for everybody.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It differs
for everybody, although there are certain similarities in the same cultural field like there are
certain similarities in America or in France or whatever country you live in.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There are
certain similarities of things that pertain to their particular nationality that people identify
with. Nevertheless, from person to person, yes, it differs. The content differs. One person
may identify with very strongly held religious beliefs and believe that everybody else is evil
who does not hold these religious beliefs.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it's a
very rigid ego.
Page 25 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or another
person identifies very strongly with the company they work for.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
and they feelI've heard stories in Japan where people, when they are dismissed from their
job, they committed suicide. They were so identified with their company that when they lost
their job, which until recently was very rare apparently in Japan.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You would
keep your job for the rest of your life, so it became part of who you thought you were. That
led toif they didn't commit suicide, they suffered dreadfully because their identity got
taken away. All that, of course, is (unintelligible) identity, it's not who you truly are.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's part of
the ego. And all that is content. The structure of the ego basically consists of identification.
The ego seeks something or things to identify with. What it is doesn't really matter. For one
personone person identifies him or herself with a very positive-looking ego. Meaning, "I'm
the greatest thing that ever lived."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It might be
a delusion, or is.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But it'sor
another person might identify with a very negative ego image like, "I'm the most retched
person that has ever lived. Life has treated me so unfairly, I've suffered so much more than
you. Let me tell you about it."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Many egos
are like that, just as strong as egos who think they are the greatest. So the ego can be
predominantly negative; it can be predominantly positive. But in either case, it's ego.
Page 26 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Capsulize for us whatyou know, the whole chapter is about, the
current state of humanity being the ego. But can you put in a capsule what it is, the ego?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The ego is
the false sense of self based on mental concepts. So that's
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And our identification with form.

Identification with form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Things.
areyes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But why do we have it, though? Why do we have an ego? We're all
human. We all have one, right?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We all have one.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say yourslast week, you said yours died. Does that mean you
don't have one?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You said yours died in that moment where you wanted to kill
yourself. "I am so miserable, I can live with myself no longer."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You said in that moment, your ego died.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Never came back? It died forever?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. When
we say that it simply meansit sounds like some great achievement, well, it's not.
Page 27 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): All it
means is I'm no longer identified with my thought processes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I know
when thoughts happen, I know they are just thought. I don't look for myself in some opinions
that I hold of myself. Some mental concept, including the concept that I am free of ego, I
don't think in those terms. Because if I have this mental concept, I am free of ego, that would
be ego again.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That would be ego again. Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this
can happen very easily.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So ego is any identification with form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because what we really are is the awareness that we are identified
with form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the more you can become aware that you are identified with
things, you create a space that separates you from the thing.
because the question is, when you're aware that you identify it, who is it that is aware? What
isit's a new dimension of consciousness that comes from a deeper level of yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But how do we live in the world without things? We have to have
things. We have to live in a house, have transportation.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nothing
wrong with things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Have clothes. We have to be clothed.
wrong with things, nothing wrong with thoughts.
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wrong with opinions.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But the
moment you identify with opinions
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): then you
need to defend them. They become part of your pseudo image.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's
nothing wrong with possessing things. But when you become identified, then, first of all, if
you lose something, immediately you will suffer.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love when you say, "The people in the advertising industry know
very well that in order to sell things, that people don't really need"I'm on page 35,
everybody"they must convince them that those things will add something to how they see
themselves or are seen by others; in other words, add something to their sense of self. They
do this, for example, by telling you you will stand out from the crowd by using this product
and so by implication be more fully yourself." You say, "In so many cases you are not buying
a product but an 'identity enhancer.'"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was so fantastic. "Designer labels are primarily
collective identities that you buy into. They are expensive and therefore 'exclusive.' If
everybody could buy them, they would lose their psychological value and all you would be
left with would be their material value, which likely amounts to a fraction of what you paid."
Interesting, because I mean, I've been in situationswe even see it in the magazines now,
especially for the Oscars or Emmy's or whatever, the women are lined in their gowns. There
used to be a time when I first went on the red carpet to the Oscars, people were interested in
the movie you were doing. Now, they wanteverybody asks, the paparazzi shouts, "What are
you wearing, who are you wearing? Who did your gown? Where are the jewels from?
Where's?" It's all about the designer label and who got to wear what. And so our whole
society, to an extent, is based on this.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What do you have?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And is it exclusive?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. You
can seeI suggest sometimes to lookgo through a magazine
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): or watch
the TV commercials. From that point of view, to see how often you are actually
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Identified.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): hold an
identity rather than the emphasis on the identity rather than the product.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The identity enhancers.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Let's see some of the questions you're sending us now on e-
mail. I have Deborah in Mandeville, Louisianaokaywho says, "I'm having difficulty
transitioning from the beauty of my youth to living with a face and body that has aged. How
do we let go of that kind of possession or obsession, especially as a woman in a society
obsessed with youth and beauty?" Fantastic question, Deborah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Fantastic question. Same thing as being attached to the
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): identity enhancers of clothes and things and cars and having,
having, having, having.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That's a hardthat's harder though.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It is hard.
It's particularly hard for people who are good-looking. That was never my problem,
fortunately. But I had other problems. I had a huge mind that says, "I'm the greatest
intellectual." That was my identification, and I suffered more and more, and finally I had to let
go. But so you identify with whatever is the most obvious in your lives. If you have good
looks, then you are most likely to identify with that, probably even more so for a woman than
a man.
and therefore
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Particularly in our society.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so for
quite a few years, it works quite well, but then at some point, you realize that the body does
get old.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And time,
the monster time, does something to the body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. I always thought this too. I don't know, Deborah in
Mandeville, but I always thought pretty women would have a really hard time because as you
grow up and that is your identity and everybody says how beautiful you are and, "You're a
pretty little girl, and you're great and beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful." When that
starts to fade, then who are you?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this is
why it's important, even at an early age when you still feel very comfortable with your
external appearance, to already see if you can bring a deeper dimension into your lives so
that you don't live the rest of your life trapped in this surface dimension when you equate
who you are with your external appearance, which is not going to last.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, she says I'm having difficulty transitioning
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "from the beauty of my youth to living with a face and body that
has aged."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So the
question then perhaps is, so what to do now?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. How do we let go of that kind of obsession?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So first of
all, again, the arising awareness is important, that you had been, and to some extent perhaps
still are, identified with appearance.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then
comes in a little thing that we could call acceptance. Acceptance when you look in the mirror
in the morning, you realize, yes, one can see wrinkles here and there. The skin is not quite as
vibrant as it used to be. You can see it very clearly. And so some of these people who have
been identified, they regard that as a personal problem. They see it as if life had dealt them
some blow, that it's not personal. It's the destiny of every human being to grow old and to
unless they die prematurelyit's the destiny of every human being to experience the gradual
decline of the physical form. So what you're experiencing is the destiny of all humans, all
humans that have ever lived on the planet and ever will live on the planet. So I suggest first of
all to practice a little bit of acceptance. They say that, "It's not my personal problem, it's the
destiny of humanity, just my share." And also, that comes with any kind of acceptance,
comes a little spaciousness because here, you have the condition that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it leaves a space between resisting it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wanting it to be different.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, so
you have the condition, which means I'm getting old or the body is getting old. And then you
Page 32 of 61
accept that this is what's happening. With that acceptance comes a little bit of space around
the condition, a little bit of peace around the condition.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then a
very helpful thing
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is instead of saying, "I hate my wrinkles"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I hate
yes.
and you canit's the same process when you look at a flower. You have a flower for a few
days, and the same thing happening to your body happens to the flower after a few days. It
wilts. Or put an apple there and see what the apple looks like three weeks later. It just
happens more quickly, but it's the destiny of all form to eventually dissolve.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So Deborah needs to come to some acceptance of that.

Acceptance, and see that it's the destiny of all life forms to go through that process. In
addition, also, especially for people who have been identified with the external body, because
it's beenit was beautiful for many years, to take attention even when they're still young to
what we've been doing here. Take attention into the inner body, the inner aliveness of the
body. Because that actually does not grow old because he can feel the aliveness when you're
80 the same way you can feel the inner aliveness when you're 20.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So instead
of always stopping with the external appearance, spend time sensing the inner body rather
than always staying with the external.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you shared this story in the book, I forgot which page that
was, the ring storyoh, the lost ring on page 38.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you told the story of the woman who hadwas deteriorating
and accused her maid of stealing the ring.
Page 33 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then you asked her the question
asked, "Do you feel diminished in who you are now that you've lost the ring? Do you actually
feel diminished in your sense of self?" And at first she said, "Yes, of course I do." And then
she stopped forand then she started going within. And I asked, "Whatyour sense of self,
take your attention, what does it mean, yourto feel yourself?" And eventually, she was able
to go deeper within and feel her sense of presence. It had nothing to do with the ring. In fact
,she felt it more strongly because the identification with the external object had gone.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And I brought that up, that story up because you say that as
sheher body began to fade
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that her inner light became more luminous. That she became
almost like light shining through. She becameI've experienced that several times with
people that I have known who got close to death or that had an illness, they knew they were
going to die. And they lived in a state of acceptance. They accepted every moment. And
those people not only became very peaceful inside because they had relinquished all
identification with the external form.
and then something else that was deeper than the form that all religions rarely point to that,
that in every human being, there is a dimension that we could call the eternal or the sacred.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The formless.
formless.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's go to our Chicago study groups watching our webcast at
Borders on Michigan Avenue. Hi, everybody.
GROUP (AUDIENCE): Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I hear Sharon has a question. Sharon?
Page 34 of 61
SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah. Hello, Mr. Tolle.
SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm so excited to talk to you. I have a question. I have close
relationships to people who suffer from depression. And in talking with them and trying to
be useful to my friends when they talk to me about a bout of depression or what have you, I
find that there's an inwardness and a strong identity that they have as people who suffer
from depression. And I wonder, what role does the ego play in depression, and to what
extent is it helpful to sort of point them toward this definition of the ego, the content identity
and the structural identity? I mean, or is it unfair for me to feel that that should be useful,
given that, you know, there seems to be a strong identification with themselves as people
who suffer from depression.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Depressed people?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That,
again, brings us back to an earlier question where the conditionwhether the condition is a
physical condition that one suffers from or whether it is a psychological condition that one
suffers from. There is the tendency to identify oneself with the illness or with thewhatever
it is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. "I'm a depressed person."
then
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "And I'm depressed because I'm identifying with my whole story."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "And my story's sad."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that would make me depressed. Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what people are saying. Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. If
you're very strongly identified with my sad story, which for many people, yes, the story is
sad. I had a sad story for many years until I let go of it.
Page 35 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you were in depression. You were depressed.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I was
depressed, yes. And until one night, I woke up, and I realized that this unhappy self is not
who I am. I could sense the I am-ness that came from a much deeper level than me and my
story and my unhappy self. And I describe that as the self that I could no longer live with. I
asked myself, "What is that self? Who am I? Am I that self?" No, I am I. I am consciousness. I
am presence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I am.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I am. So
the question, of course, is what do you tell your friends? Because it's not easy to tell a person
that you are identified with an ego image, and very likely, you will get resistance.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. They'll say, "What is wrong with you?"
SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yup.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. They'll go, "What is your problem?"
SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You know,
I would suggest doing it in a more subtle way, and that is, perhaps, point out the possibility
of becoming aware of one's thought processes, of thoughts that arise instead of being
totally identified with the thoughts. Perhaps you can tell your friend what you've been doing
for yourself. You can tell that it's not threatening to the ego. If you tell something that you
have been doing, you've been observing your own thoughts, that you are more detached
now from your thoughts than you were before, and you realize that thoughts are only
thoughts. They are not who you are. And if you can tell them about yourself, that could help.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When
they
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But many times, if you are depressed, I think you're so attached to
the story. The story works for you, you know, the idea of
Page 36 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): being a depressed person
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): works for you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So it's
good. Sometimes depression comes in waves for some people, so you go through periods.
And then there are good time when you come out of it, and that is a good time because then
you are more aware than when you're down in the depression.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This brings us to something you were saying at the end of last
week's session, though. As you're trying to share this information, everybody, with your
friends, Eckhart said at the end of last week's class that the most you can do is ask yourself,
are you ready to awaken? Are you ready to be more present, more alive for yourself? Because
you really cannot bring other people along unless
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): they are also ready.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. But
sometimes you bring other people along simply because you embody a different state of
consciousness even while you sit with them. They may be telling you their sad story, but you
don't buy into the sad story nor do you question the sad story. You're just there as a
spacious, conscious presence.
resistant, just conscious presence.
sometimes, that transmits itself, and suddenly, the person wakes up for a moment. I had that
experience. I believe I describe itI don't remember whether it's in this book or in The Power
of Nowthere was aI had a neighbor many years ago who always was close to a nervous
breakdown. Whenever I met her, she would come with extremely complicated stories of what
other people were doing to her and how sheand she always wanted something from me, to
join her in her struggle against other people.
Page 37 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): One night,
she was ringing my bell at 10:30 or 11:30 at night. And through the intercom I saidshe
said, "Can I come up there? I have something very important to talk about." So she came up in
great distress and said something about she hadn't paid the service charge, theand so on,
and we had to fight them and so on. And I found myself going into a state of alert presence,
allowing her to speak, no thinking, just allowing her to say what she had to say, feeling quite
peaceful. And, suddenly, she stopped talking and she looked around. And she had brought
all these papers to look at all over the floor.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, to verify her position.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Her story.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so,
suddenly, she looked around and said, "This isn't important at all, is it?" And I said, "No." She
said, "Thank you," and she got her papers and walked out. And the next morning, I saw her,
she came to me in the street. She said, "What did you do to me last night? Last night was the
first night that I slept well in years and years." The first night after this happened
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What did you do to her?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now the
thing is, I did nothing. I was just there, present for her. So there was no doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And not buying into the story.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not buying
into the story.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not empowering the story.
feeding her thought processes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not even
evennot resisting their thought processes either.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Sharon. Thanks, everybody at Borders.
SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you.
Page 38 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Borders.
SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have Kathy from Beijing, China, on the phone with a question.
Hello, Kathy from Beijing.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah and Eckhart.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I just want to say this is huge that we can have this one
conversation around the world. I'm a girl from Duluth, Minnesota, living in Beijing, China, and
talking to Oprah in Chicago and Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think that's fun.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): My question
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, go ahead.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): My question is, I lost 30 pounds in the last year and, for me, it
has been spiritual work. It's not just on-the-surface weight loss. And now my friends are
asking me about it and how I did it, and I'm wondering how to explain that it is this whole
spiritual process. It's not just what you eat and how you exercise, but for me, it's been life-
changing, and they look at me like I'm mentally ill when I try to explain all of that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A friend of mine and I were talking about this the other day, about
allowing yourself to be fed from the energy that's already there inside your body. I know
what you're talking about. Checking in.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I know you know.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. Yeah.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I know you know.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, checking in, being conscious, aware of what you are feeding
yourself and aware of how you are in touch with your body to give your body just what your
body needs, and so then it becomes, not about the diet and the food and thehow many
reps you did, but about being aware.
Page 39 of 61
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): But most of the world is focused on how it's just the surface,
what you eat.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, it's
being in touch with the body helps greatly because the body knows what it needs. Really, the
overeating happens because it's part of the ego
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Unconsciousness.
unconsciousness
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Unconsciousness, yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): which
seeks a substitute for the sense of aliveness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I can say that for sure. And you know that too, right, Kathy?
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, now I know too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yeah. Well, now you know how to explain it to all your friends.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's so cool talking to you from Beijing. What time is it there?
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): It's 9 in the morning, and I am able to watch it successfully this
week. I was like others and didn't get it last week. But
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, we're still up and out. That's great. I know. I have alllisten, I
have the Skype people and the Limelight people and the Move people and the Oprah.com
people, and I just walked through the hall as we started this and I said to all of them, "May the
force be with you." And his is mythis is what I'm doing. Hello! [Crosses fingers.]
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): You can make things happen.
Page 40 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, thank you so much.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thanks. Okay, bye.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. I want to go back to the identification with
things because that is an issue for so many people, "the unchecked striving for more, for
endless growth," you say, "is a dysfunction and a disease," on page 37, like the cancer cell
"whose only goal is to multiply itself, unaware that it's bringing about its own destruction by
destroying the organism of which it is a part." I heard we had a shopaholic on Skype. I saw
that earlier. Did we bring her back? Yeah, isn't that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, we have Joyce from Minnesota who is Skyping us. Joyce, what
is your question? I thought this applied to you.
JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, yeah, it does. And unfortunately, it applies to my son as
well. Last week, he came home from kindergarten and I said, "I'm so happy to see you, and I'm
in such a good mood." And he said, "Oh, good, does that mean we get to go shopping?" And I
thought, "It's rubbing off on him!" So what my question is, is how do I reverse that process in
him?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, well, first of all, let me ask you this: You're reading the book,
correct?
JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. So you've gotten through Chapter 2 already?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, so when you read that, did you see yourself in the pages?
JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I did. The onethe aha! for me was in seeing of who you are, not
theyour real self merges through, something along those lines.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): My favorite quote inone of my favorite quotes in this chapter is
"when you can no longer feel the life that you are"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "you are likely to try to fill up your life with things."
JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): With things, yes. Yes.
Page 41 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Would that be what you're trying to do?
JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): That was me. I'vesince I started reading this book, I've gotten
so much better. I'm not searching for that thing anymore. I think I was trying to find my
identity in things, and since I have stopped that and I really don't have any interest in that
anymore, I have discovered so much more about myself. I'm artistic, and I'm doing
sculptures and just things I never did before, so it's working out great. I just want to know
how to enforce that in my son as well since he's only 5.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, well,
now the most important change has already happened in you. So you've become aware of the
old pattern. You've gone beyond it, and it's inevitable that now this will, even if you don't say
anything, it will transmit itself to your son also when after a while, your son sees thatthe
importance that you give to acquiring things has diminished, then he also will reflect that.
That is how it works with young children.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It will take some time.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because he since he's been a baby
JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): you've been a shopaholic, that's the way you described yourself
to our producers.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so that's what he is seeing. That's what he's taken in. That's
what he identifies
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): with as pleasure.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you say, "I'm in a good mood and things are going well.
" "Let's go shopping, Mommy."
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): because that's what Mommy's always done.
Another thing that
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): perhaps
you could do is point out things to him that are of intrinsic value that you cannot buy, so for
example, the natural world to
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Whatever
you see out in nature is of infinite intrinsic value and you can't buy it. Don't pick flowers, for
example. Don't encourage him to pick because that's the acquisition instinct, the instinct to,
"Oh, I want that for myself." Why not allow the flower to be there and enjoy it for a few
seconds as you look at it? So point out things and engage in activities perhaps that involve
nature and see that is of greater value than anything that you see in the shopping mall. And
it doesn't mean that you don't buy anything anymore. Occasionally, you may come across
something that looks truly beautiful, that speaks to you. And you may acquire it, but it's no
longer compulsive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say we need to "honor the world of things, not despise it." But
we cannot honor things if we try to find ourselves through them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And how do we honor them?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You honor
them by giving them attention. I sometimesI have a few possessions that I love, and
sometimes I just hold them, look at them, they're beautiful to look at. If theyif somebody
stole them, itthat's fine. If somebody wants them more than I, it's fine, you let go. There's
no identification, but there be enjoyment in things. You can enjoy a beautifulyou the might
come across a beautiful picture, and you buy it. You might come across a beautiful fabric,
whatever it may be, you see beauty there, and sometimes it'll be enough to acknowledge
beauty in a shop window and say, "Oh, isn't that beautiful. Of course, I don't need it." And
you walk on, and you canand that's
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a thought.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's a
lot of
Page 43 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a thought I never had.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's a
lot of freedom in that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "That's beautiful, let's leave it there. I can just admire its beauty."
What about that, Joyce? "It's beautiful. Let's leave it in the window."
JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): That works for me.
same as the flower. You don't need to pick it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a thought. Yeah.
JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, that's a good one. I like that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Enjoying,
you can walk aroundoccasionally, I don't do it anyone, but I sometimes would enjoy
walking around a few stores. When I lived in London, I would sometimes walk down Regent
Street, all these beautiful stores.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Window shop.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Window
shopping.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Look in,
"Oh, how nice. Would I want to buy it? Even if I"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's if you can just accept that it's beautiful and let it be.
beautiful, and then let it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Joyce. Thank you, Joyce, so much.
JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have from India. I don't know the name of this country,
Priyanka.
Page 44 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sri Lanka.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No. The person's name is Priyanka from Mumbai, India.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "When we try to change our bad habits for good, then aren't we
trying to resist rather than accept ourselves? When we try to change our bad habits for
good, aren't we trying to resist rather than accept ourselves?"
it's not that you change your bad habits, the bad habits drop away when you bring
awareness to them. So it's not me trying to change something inside me, but when you bring
awareness to old, conditioned forms of behavior or thinking, when you bring awareness to it,
those old, conditioned forms of behavior or thinking, after a while, drop away by themselves.
So it's not me trying to bring about a change, it's the arising awareness, and then change
happens. The lady we just talked to, she read the chapter on shopping, and that immediately
brought her to this point of awareness. And with the awareness, the compulsion immediately
lessened.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eased, eased, eased.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Eased. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You talk about the illusion of ownership on page 42. You say, "The
ego tends to equate having with Being and lives through comparison." And you used a
quote from the Bible that Jesus said. "'Blessed are the poor in spirit,' Jesus said, 'for theirs will
be the kingdom of heaven.' What does poor in spirit mean? No inner baggage, no
identifications." I never knew that's what "poor in spirit" means.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah, yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How did you come to that interpretation of what "poor in spirit"
means?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There was
a time, after I went through this inner shift, this must be in three years later, I was visiting my
mother and she had the New Testament on her shelf. I picked it up, and I started reading. I
could suddenly see the truth that was hiding there, and that in many cases, the conventional
interpretation was the superficial one of what Jesus had said. And that was one of the things
that I immediately saw when you said "poor in spirit," I realized it had to do with not carrying
stuff inside so that your spirit is very light, it has no burden.
Page 45 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ah.
there are many things, at that time, I read and I suddenly saw, "Oh, he was talking about
awakening and about living in that free state of consciousness." It's wonderful, suddenly to
be able to read it and suddenly it all makes sense, which before hadn't made sense.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You also talk about "renunciation of possessions will not
automatically free you of the ego," that "there are people who have renounced all
possessions but have bigger ego that some millionaires."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So if you take away one kind of identification, the ego will quickly
find another. For instance, I'm a more spiritual person than you are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see this all the time.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, it's
identification
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People use their religion to say "I'm better"
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "than you are"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "because I'm more religious."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or even an
image of myself as a spiritual person. I'm more spiritual than you.
Page 46 of 61
example, there could be, theoretically, you could have a man driving a Rolls Royce and then
on the same street, a man riding a bicycle, and it is quite possiblenot necessarily of course,
it could be the other way around. But it's quite possible that the man on the bicycle may have
a bigger ego than the man in the Rolls Royce if he thinks of himself as spiritually superior to
the man in the Rolls Royce. And so the ego compares itself always to others
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): in order
to find some superiority somewhere.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, because another favorite quote is, is that anytime you
feel yourself superior or inferior to anybody, it is always your ego.
that's very interesting. You can observe yourself in many situations because the ego always
looks out when you come into a group of people or you meet new people. And it wants to
position itself somewhere. "Am I better looking than this person, or am I more knowledgeable
than this person, or do Iam I more wealthy than this person, or is this person more wealthy
than me?" So it tries to position itself, and then that leads either to a sense of superiority
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): or

inferiority, and both are ego.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Well, what made me also think aboutone of the situations in
our country in particular here in the United States is that people live lives in debt. They're
indebted, credit card debt, overwhelmed by debt because of what you talk about on page 46,
wanting, "the need for more." Wanting keeps the ego alive much more than having.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's talk about that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now that,
again, a structure of the ego.
we've been talking about content and structure.
Page 47 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And one of
the main structures of the ego is it is never satisfied.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Satisfied.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, for
example, when you have attained a goal or attained something that you wanted
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got a nice house.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Got a nice
house.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nice things in the house.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): After a
little while, it no longer satisfies you, and that's always a sign that that was thethis was an
egoic problem.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because I now need nicer things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I need more square footage.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So nothing
satisfies the ego for long, and therefore, it needs to continue to look for more. And, of
course, and this is to do also with the ego's need for future because it's only by attaching
undue importance to the future because it's looking for more in the future moment. It seeks
to complete itself at some point. It wants to attain something in addition to what you already
have.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So how do we stop that and begin to be satisfied where we are with
what we have and who we are?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, first
of all, to see the illusion of seeking fulfillment in the future, sometimes people need to have
lived for a while to see that that's actually true.
Page 48 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That no
matter what you achieve or what you attain, you're not satisfied for long. So what do we do
about this? We realize that the thing that is of prime importance in our lives we had always
overlooked, and that's the ego in us that always overlooked that. And that thing that is of
absolutely prime importance in our lives is the present moment. The present moment is
actually the easiest exit point out of the ego state of consciousness because when you're
absolutely present in this moment, the ego can't survive. There's only conscious presence.
The ego lives through past and future. It identifies with the past, but it's not a very happy
identity. And it looks to the future where it wants, this, that or the other to complete itself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, someone's asked meone of theduring the week,
someone asked me, "What about our past memories that are pleasant?" You have happy
times...
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, then
it's good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): pleasant memories, so.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay. And
when you remember those memories, it's also the present moment. So no matter what you
remember from the past, when those things happened, whether pleasant or unpleasant, did
they happen in the past, that's what we say or could these things happen in the past.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But, of
course, they happened in the now because nothing can happen in the past. There is only the
now. And when you remember something from the past, when do you remember it?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And when
you think of something that may happen in the future, when do you think of that?
Page 49 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now. And
when that thing actually happens, when does that happen?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now. So
there is no life apart from now. And that is a very important realization for people to have
because the ego continuously overlooks the now. It thinks past and future are more
important. It gives much more importance to past and future, and the now is just almost as if
it didn't exist.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you're saying is that if we can learn to recondition
ourselves to be present now
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): then we can be more alive
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): to do whatever it is going to be in the future
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): because even when the future gets here, it will only be now.
now is the foundation for the rest of your life
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): because
the rest of your life will also be the now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Madilynn from Pennsylvania is 13 years old and is the phone
with a question. Madeline?
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi.
Page 50 of 61
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hello. On page 47, at the end of the second paragraph, the
sentence reads, "Intense wanting that has no specific object can often be found in the still-
developing ego of teenagers, some of whom are in a permanent state of negativity and
dissatisfaction."
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): By stating this, are you implying that teenagers cannot be
awakened? That although I'm reading this book, I may have no chance in reaching
consciousness merely because I'm only 13 and my ego is not fully developed?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go, Madilynn. Go, Madilynn. I just think the fact that you could ask
the question is pretty darn good.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now
the first thing, you are more advanced than I was at 13.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Than most of us, I'd say, yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I would not
have been able to read or understand that book when I was 13. So
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you reading the book, Madilynn?
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah.
quite amazing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's quite amazing.

certainly does not mean that you cannot be awakened because you're already awakening
because if you were not already awakening, the book would be completely meaningless to
you.
MADILYNN: Okay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So there is
a new generation growing up and there are more youngsters now than before who may not
Page 51 of 61
have to go through the extreme egoic delusion that we had to go through in our generation.
And you may be one of them. It doesn't mean perhaps that your ego will not develop at all.
Your ego will develop, but I don't believe that you will be as trapped in ego as I had to be. I
can't speak for Oprah. I know Oprah is trying now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oprah was trapped. I was very trapped, Madilynn. I was very
trapped.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So your
chances are excellent. You are already awakening. It's wonderful to see.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let me ask you this, though, Madilynn: When you just read us that
passage at the bottom of page 47, "intense wanting that has no specific object can often be
found in the still-developing ego of teenagers." So what you're saying there is that the ego of
teenagers is still in the process of becoming.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Growing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also, Madilynn, don't you see it in your friends
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): this sort of intense wanting?
MADELINE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, all the time.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So I think that's what he was talking about.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): He was talking about all of your friends, but not you, Madilynn.
Madilynn, do you detect intense wanting in yourself?
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, occasionally.

Occasionally?
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you're
not totally identified because you know it's there. There is an awareness there, isn't there?
Page 52 of 61
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Mm-hmm. Okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you understanding the book, Madilynn?
MADELINE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, it makes a lot of sense actually.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What grade are you in actually?
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm in eighth grade.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eighth grade. Okay. Well, great to hear from you. Thank you so
much.
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where are you? In Canonsburg, Pennsylvania? That's what I hear.
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yup.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Actually. Well, great.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Keep reading.
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yup, thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so we're going to check our live e-mails again. That's pretty
cool, isn't it?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Wonderful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thirteen. I couldn't have...
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Listen, I was in so much trouble at 13, I didn't have
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Me too.
Page 53 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Okay, as we make our way into the worldthis is from Japan,
Toyohashi, Japan. "As we make our way in the world, being confident and assertive, our
characteristics have helped us get a job, that big promotion. I realize now that these are
traits that are associated with ego, and so the question then becomes how then does one
move beyond the ego?" Great question. How does one move beyond the ego?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Become
aware of the ego is the first step.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But can't you still be the biggest jerk on earth and still just be aware
of it and say, "Well, I'm a jerk? Boy, that sure is some big ego of mine." You know, we were
talking earlier, I'm thinking, you know, you can be in the moment, still being one of those
road raging people, road raging jerk in the moment
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and you're aware you're a road raging jerk in the moment.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's unlikely
that at that moment you're actually aware.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because if
you're aware, then you cannot be totally possessed
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): By?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): by the
ego, by the form
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): By the ego.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): by the
thought form or the

emotional form.
Page 54 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If that, as I
mentioned
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Usually that's the pain-body that's taking over.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. If the
dimension of awareness is present, you are not totally in the grip of ego. And sobut the
quickest way out of ego is to practice as much as possible living in the present moment,
which means to give more attention to this moment than to the future or the past, to make
this moment the primary factor in your life rather than future and pasts. Of course, you still
use future and past for practical purposes. It helps to make an appointment...
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): to go

from here to there. It's all fine. It works very well.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it means being present
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As much
as possible being open to whatever arises in the present moment. The word that I useand I
think it may be helpful for many peopleis "make friends with the present moment" because
the ego doesn't come to that. The ego always is antagonistic. It wantsat best, it uses the
present moment as a stepping stone because it wants to get to the next moment, which
promises greater fulfillment at best. But in many cases, the ego actually dislikes the present
moment. It resists the present moment. So if you can make the present moment into the
primary focal point of your life and live, then ego will very quickly diminish in you because it
can not survive the present moment. So the ego
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's how you do it, that's how
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): one moves beyond the ego.
ego
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just to be in present.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The ego
lives as ifpeople who are possessed by the ego live as if the present moment were their
enemy. They are stressed. They want to get somewhere else. Whenever you need tothey're
Page 55 of 61
doing something, but they really already want to be at the end of their doing. "Come on," they
say
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They are
they don't want to be where they are. They'd rather be somewhere else. They don't want to be
who they're with. They don'tit is always a striving away from now internally.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's,
of course, the dysfunction of the people.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I just had a moment like that today because I was waiting on
somebody to get something ready. And they said, "We're so sorry. We're in a hurry." I've been
waiting and I go, "No"I took the lesson from the book"no, I'm just here being with myself."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm not waiting on anything because if you're waiting, you're in
anticipation
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and you're wanting to be out of that moment.
right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Waiting
means you don't like this moment.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You would
rather have another moment. So whenever you are waiting, so to speak
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Waiting, yes.
Page 56 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Why not
practice being rather than waiting, which means completely inhabit this moment and feel
your body, perhaps feel the energy. And that's very present to feel that you're alive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. We have one last phone call, a question from Michelle in
Philadelphia. Hello.
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah. How are you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Fine. Good, good.
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. Hi, Eckhart.
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm just like a little bit so excited that you called me. My
question was that I'm a little bit confused with Chapter 2. I understand the quote, "If someone
takes your shirt, let them have your coat as well." But where do you draw the line without
getting walked all over? I do not want be an egotistical person, but at the same time, I don't
want to get taken advantage of.
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): So I was having a little bit of confusion with that.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Good, good, good.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. All it
takes is sometimes letting go. There's more power in letting go than in clinging or hanging
on to something. So there are situations when you actually become empowered when you let
go rather than when you cling. It does not mean that people walk all over you. In fact, I say
there are situations when you have to say no very clearly to a situation or to a person.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But even
that no can be, can be of two different kinds. Usually, the no is very negative. When you say
no to a person, the person says, "I'll give you a ride home," and you see the person is drunk.
Of course you wouldn't say yes just to be pleasant. You say no. Now, do you say no with
negative energy and in a stage of resistance or do you say no that is positive? It simply
Page 57 of 61
means a clear and straightforward, "No, I won't do that." This is very different from the
resistance no.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I call that
"the no that is not negative, a high-quality no, truth."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's also looking at the reason why you would cling to the shirt. "You
can have my shirt. I'll give you the shirt if the reason why you're holding to this shirt is cause
you think this shirt is going to give you more value or moreor you're operating from your
ego when you're holding on to it."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you're saying be able to be in the state of presence
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and awareness so that you can surrender whatever needs to be
surrendered.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That does not mean
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And surrender does not mean allowing yourself to be walked over,
but to be fully present so that you can be conscious of what's always going on.
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So it means in some cases, it's fine to say "Here, you want it, take it."
In other cases it's not
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): depending upon what the situation is
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): [Unintelligible]
Page 58 of 61
right.
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): [Unintelligible]
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): based upon the truth of who you are in any given moment.
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that, Michelle.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that, Michelle.
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you so much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you for the question. It helped me to get it.
MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let's close with the peace that passes all understanding that you
talk about on page 56. What is that peace?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That peace
comes when you live in internal alignment with the present moment which means what is,
whatever is. When you no longer argue with what is, when you don't fight it internally, this
present moment already always is as it is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even if it's a situation that you don't want?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Even if you
don't want it, it is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You must accept it first.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You accept
first, and then you take action.
Page 59 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that was the mud example you used last week.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, you
get
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even if you're stuck in the mud
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This is
where I'm right now. I'm here, and then you take action. But that action no longer arises out
of negativity, which is there when you don't like to be where you are, when you don't like this
moment. Always friendly with the present moment, accepting the is-ness of the present
moment, then move on from there. Then whatever action you take is actually empowered by
life itself. When you are in a state of negativity or resistance, your action is not empowered
by life. So it's not inspired and much less effective than action that comes out of a state of
nonresistant.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. It's like last week when we were having problems that neither
you or I knew until we had finished the class.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I saidwe were doing a toast to everybody afterwards for all of
their efforts and I said, "I'm going to accept it. I'm going to accept that we had a break down
on the Web. I'm going to accept it, and now let us correct it."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it was
everybody's lesson whose computer froze up. It was everybody's lesson to say, "Well, this is
what is." And with that comes an inner peace that has nothing to do with what's happening or
not happened.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not resisting it and banging up the computer.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And, "Oh, my God," and
Page 60 of 61
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's
the peace that passes all understanding because the peace cannot be explained with
reference to external events. It's there because you live in alignment with the present
moment. That's the peace.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is the peace living in alignment. Before we say goodbye, I'd like
to thank you for being with Eckhart and with me, and we'll be here again next Monday at 8
p.m. Central. Don't forget, if you want to experience this class again or tell a friend who
missed it, our webcast is available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. Is that
noon, Dean, beginning at noon? Beginning at noon you can start to download. And if you
want to download a podcast of this class, you can do that tomorrow at Oprah.com and
iTunes. Your assignment for our next class is to update your workbook and spend this week
rereading and thinking about Chapter 3. Chapter 3 is all about the core of ego. So do your
homework, and we'll see you next Monday night. I thank you again, Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't this the coolest?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much to all of you.
Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's been wonderful. Thank you, everybody all over the world. Good
night. Good day.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good
night.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good morning. Goodbye.
Page 61 of 61
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello again, everyone. Welcome to week number three of our New
Earth Web class. And again, I, um, thank you. Eckhart Tolle thanks you for joining us as we bring
students and seekers together to discuss our latest Book Club selection, Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth.
I'm happy once again to see that we've been connecting with readers around the world. We've gotten
questions and comments just this week from as far away as Rotterdam, Rio, Beirut, Casablanca,
Greece, Seoul and even, even Tasmania. Hello, Tasmania. Thank you for all of your really so, so
thoughtful, your e-mails have been, and I can tell you we love hearing from you wherever you are.
There've been either 2 million of you who watched our classes live or on streams or downloads. No
matter how you're watching, I welcome you to the awakening, the shift in consciousness that's
happening really all over the planet. So I want to get started on Chapter 3. As you see on your screen,
you can type in your questions and send them to us instantly throughout the class. We're going to be
speaking with students via Skype. You know, Skype is that free software that allows you to make
Internet and video phone calls from all over the world. Welcome, again.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did you have a good week?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very
good. Thanks.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very good. So, if we were to summarize, last week we were talking
about how the current state of humanity is that we are humans here living on the planet Earth, have an
ego and learning to manage that ego is what this book is all about.
And going beyond ego at the same time means going beyond what the Buddha described as the normal
human condition, which is one of suffering.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cause
ultimately the ego sooner or later, usually sooner, always produces some form of suffering. So it's
really transcending the ego. Going beyond the ego, at the same time, means going beyond this
unconscious urge to generate more and more suffering both into people's personal lives as well as
collectively.
Page 1 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, we did something last week that was unprecedented. You said it's
never been done before on television where you just sit there in silence. And I thought a lot of people
responded to the sense of connection from that. So do you want to do that again?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's do that again.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So you're going to lead us in silence?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay.
I'll just maybe one or two little hints about what to do with your mind when you go into silence
because not speaking isn't complete silence yet because usually, even though you're not speaking, the
mind is still active and producing noise. So how to stop the mind from producing noise or how to
reduce the amount of noise that the mind produces is quite easy. You take your attention away from
the mind, from thinking. And we did that already last week, and simply become aware that you are
breathing. The air flows in and out and you feel yourself breathing. Air flows in and out the body. And
so as we go into silence now for a few seconds, just direct your attention and feel your own breath.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That was nice.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Today's lesson, Chapter 3 beginning on page 59. I love the idea that
we're all literally on the same page. Everybody, page 59. "The Core of the Ego." "Most people are so
completely identified with the voice in the headthe incessant stream of involuntary and compulsive
thinking and the emotions that accompany itthat we may describe them as being possessed by their
mind." My question to you, if we are not that constant stream of thinking, then who are we?
that question usually would be answered by the mind by giving some kind of concept of who we are.
Now
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, I am female
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This,
that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm African-American.
Page 2 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I work on TV.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): My mother was, my mother is
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I live at, my job is
right. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. That's how most people, if you say, "Who are you?"
But beyond that because concepts refer to who we are temporarily in the world of form. Your mother,
your father, you have a certain profession, a certain, belong to a certain race. You're a man or a
woman, nationality, all these things. Now, when you ask, "Who are we beyond that?" there is no
conceptual answer to that that would, no conceptual answer would be absolutely correct. We can give
little hints. We can say, "We are the formless consciousness behind all that."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We

are that which cannot be defined through concepts or words. So knowing who you are is not, does not
mean that suddenly you have some new idea in your head, you say "Oh, now, let me tell you who I am.
I've discovered who I am."
get closer to knowing you and who you are. You come to a stage where you have that feeling, and I
mention it in the book somewhere, you, when people tell me, "I don't know who I am anymore"
because they have realized who they are not.
Page 3 of 59
are ultimately not their profession, they are not whatever function they fulfill. They are not their
nationality. So they're not, they're beginning to realize, "That's not really who I am." But then they
enter the unknown and say well, "If I'm not that, no, I'm no longer sure who I am." And I always
congratulate people when they say, "I'm not sure who I am anymore." That's a
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, that usually connotes confusion.

Confusion if you still want to know who you are. But if you can become comfortable with not knowing
who you are, with not defining yourself to yourself or to others, mainly to yourself because the ego is
constantly a self-definition to remind yourself who you are. You remember your story, your past and
so on. You have opinions about yourself and so you, this is the self-definition.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But don't we obviously need the ego, Eckhart? Don't we obviously need
it? Otherwise, why would we have it? Why wouldn't we have evolved past it?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's,
we're doing that now.
been a stage in the evolution of consciousness, a necessary stage in the evolution.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For survival?
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because?
ego arose because we started to think. So the ability in humans, suddenly humans developed the ability
to differentiate and to think. To me, the beginning of the Old Testament really describes the beginning
of the ability to think because what it says in the Old Testament is, "they ate of the fruit of the
knowledge of good and evil," the ability to say this is good, this is bad, to differentiate, starting to
think.
Page 4 of 59
ability to think arose in our species, which was a wonderful thing on the one hand, but over many,
many millennia, hundreds of thousands of years, more and more, our original sense of connectedness
with life and with being, which natural ones still has, animals still have that. They, they live in a state
of natural
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And some cultures did.
of ancient cultures.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The Native Americans.
right.
still have that, the sense of being rooted, being comfortable in your own skin, being rooted deeply
within and feel that sense of oneness with the totality of life. Oneness with life itself.
so we, we had, humanity had that once and, as you say, some ancient cultures perhaps there are still
remnants of ancient cultures, they still have that, and, but humans as they went into more and more
thinking and differentiation, they gradually, their sense of self gradually moved from, from the center
of their being, which I would describe as their heart or the solar plexus, into their mind.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Into their mind.
the more and more they began to identify with the movement of thought, and, gradually, out of this
continuous identification with the movement of thought, a thought-made entity was produced, which is
the ego.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Which is what you're saying is being possessed by our minds?
Page 5 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. By being possessed by our minds. Okay. You say, "This is the
egoic mind. And we call it ego because there's a sense of self, of I, in every thought, every memory,
every interpretation, opinion" and so forth. And this is unconsciousness, spiritually speaking?
Because you identify with thought rather than being identifying with the, your inner essence, which is
what we lost, which is the state of Eden or paradise as is described in
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the Bible.
Bible. We lost that, and it's not only in the Bible. There are many ancient cultures where they speak of
the Golden Age that we lost, in many different cultures.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say egos are all the same on the surface, they only, they differ
only on the surface. Deep down they're all the same?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Now, Chapter 3 is all about the core of the ego, what makes it
thrive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say that, that what we, what we react to in another we
strengthen in ourselves. Can you give us an example of that? One of the things the ego needs to survive
is reacting against other people. "What you react to in another you strengthen in yourself, you say.
That's usually what we react to most strongly in others, and what we most strongly condemn in others
is usually something that we also have, a trait that we also have but that we are unconscious of in
ourselves. So when we, for example, become upset if we encounter somebody who is very greedy, or
we could become upset about somebody who is dishonest, no matter who, the, what, the, the force of
your reaction usually tells you that something in you that you need to look at.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? All the time? All the time?
it's for you to find out or any, anybody to find out in their own lives. When you react strongly have it
then become alert and have a look inside.
Page 6 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. You say, "Complaining is one of the ego's favorite strategies for
strengthening itself. Every complaint is a little story the mind makes up that you completely believe
in."
Now, that's a very common thing and perhaps until people begin to become more aware
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And some egos survive on complaining.
egos who haven't got much else to identify with, they can survive on complaining alone. So the
continuously you are condemning other people, you're continuously criticizing, condemning or judging
negatively situations that you're in, your surroundings, other people.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the ego is the identification with those thoughts?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not necessarily the thoughts?
It's the, it's the, it's the thing that you become, you become those thoughts.

You're, there's no space between you and the thought.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got that. Okay. All right. So name-calling is also a form that the ego,
you know
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): defines itself.
And that, of course, one could say, "Well, it's relatively harmless." On one level it's relatively harmless
to call a person this or that, to attach a label to a person. But if you follow this up to see, again, you can
actually see how dreadful it is to label another human being or another group of human beings.
Because once you have labeled, you've attached a mental label to another human being, you can, you
have desensitized yourself to the aliveness and the humanity of that other human being because you're
relating now to a label. So if you say, "He's a," whatever they be. "He's a Communist. He's this, he's
Page 7 of 59
that" Any, any label it immediately instead of sensing the aliveness of that human being and have
some empathy with that, you have cut yourself off and you have a label.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In Chapter 4 you talk about that, that role-playing, how we do it in
temporary ways. I'm the, you know, I'm the person who's going into the store.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm the customer. And there's the clerk.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's,
right, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The person who labels himself the clerk, and I'm the customer, there's a
certain defined behavior that we have.
then when it's done collectively the labeling, when an entire nation labels another nation in a certain
way
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yeah. Or I'm the boss and you're the janitor.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or you're my subordinate.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): All
these are forms of mental labeling so they, any kind of mental label that you are completely identified
with desensitizes you to the humanity of the, and then of the human being.
then all kinds of things are possible. Even violence becomes possible.
Page 8 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I got it. Everybody, I just got this. You got this. Remember two
weeks ago we were talking about walking under the trees, feeling nature, not labeling the flowers,
being able to experience the essence of the flowers, what you're saying here is you're labeling people
as, "He's a jerk, or he's a whatever." Once you start doing that, you become desensitized to who they
really are in the same way that you were when you were labeling things in nature.
Exactly.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. We have Bill. Hello, Bill. Talked to you earlier today.
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Oprah, how are you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Bill's in Connecticut on Skype. Bill and I Skyped on The Oprah
Show earlier today. What's your question to us now?
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, well, first of all, Eckhart, I'd like to say that this book is
indicative to the quintessential essence of life. This is incredible reading. I have a very simple question.
Would, do you compare the egoic mind to the subconscious?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I don't
use those terms, but because they are a completely different frame of reference. There is, of course
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Okay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): a

lot of subconscious activity in the egoic mind also. All we can do
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): All right, but do they run in conjunction with each other, or are they
separate?

Essentially the ego is, the ego, or the ego to survive or the ego to thrive, you need to be unconscious of
it. So the way I say it, I'll describe the entire egoic functioning as a part of the unconsciousness. And
it's only
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right.
Page 9 of 59
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): it's
only when you become aware of those patterns that operate in your own mind that you are stepping out
of the unconsciousness, and this is why we call it awakening. And when you suddenly become aware
even of, initially perhaps of just this tiny pattern in your, in your mind. For example, we talked about
complaining. If you could become aware that often during the day you complain uselessly because it
serves no purpose, about other people or situations, and so I'm going to say, "Oh, there's the
complaining voice in my head." Not only do you say this, the complaining voice, there is a deeper
dimension of consciousness that has suddenly come forth from where you can be aware of that voice.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you're saying is you, we, are the awareness?
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We are the awareness.
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Wow.
is essentially who you are. You are not all those things that the awareness can be conscious of the
order, the labels or whatever. You are the consciousness or the awareness itself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You are the awareness.
as long as you don't know that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Didn't that blow your mind, Bill?
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm, like, I'm, I'm just, I'm washed away here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is so fascinating, I was sharing this with Eckhart as we were
preparing for tonight's lesson, that I received an e-mail from you through our message boards where
you were talking about how your life was sort of spiraling downhill. You were not communicating
with your wife. You were sort of
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I was a, Oprah, I wasn't communicating with anybody. I was just, I
was stagnating. And I needed a wake-up call, and I was, I was, I was on the search. And when I heard
you mention this book, it was the name that stuck, A New Earth. You know, that's really cool. "I really
have to check that out." And it took me five weeks to buy the book but, you know, it's my manual for
life. It's, it's just, it's an incredible composition. It truly is.
Page 10 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, you were saying on The Oprah Show earlier today, many people are
joining us this evening who weren't a part of The Oprah Show. But you were saying on The Oprah
Show earlier today when we were Skyping. That, you sat down, you were going to give it a couple
hours and then
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, yeah. I figured, you know, I'll knock off two or three chapters.
I got so consumed in this, in this, this whole wave of, of, of writing. It was like, "Wow, I can't put it
down." And it, you know, 12 hours later, I closed the cover and I went, "Whew, wow, what an
incredible ride."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And what was the biggest realization
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): You know, (unintelligent)
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hey, Bill. What was the biggest realization for you?
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): The biggest realization, you know, the whole book itself was a
realization. I didn't have any one chapter or any one paragraph. I went throughit really started on
Chapter 3 for me. From Chapter 3 it went to the next chapter. The chapter after that, how we're brought
up, how we live in a dysfunctional life. And Oprah, let me tell you something. I grew up in one of the
most dysfunctional families you'd ever want to know. And this is something that we carry with us
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your pain-body.
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And I've, I've said that, you know, this is a manual for life. We're,
we're thrown out there, we're not given, you know, we get a manual for our cars, our
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): our appliances, our electronics. But we're thrown out there and,
you know, as young adults it's like, "Go do your thing." But while we're doing our thing we're
consumed in all of the negativity that is in society, the negativity that's in our families and it's, you
know, we can take our self so far, but this book can take us a whole lot farther.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you, Bill. Bill, thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm glad you were around when I was talking about the report.
Page 11 of 59
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hey, Eckhart, Eckhart, I got to tell you something. You are, you, I, I
don't know where you came from, and I did read in the book that you were studying a, you, you never,
you know, said what kind of career you were on in the book, you just said that you were studying for a
lucrative career and you, you got off the beaten path and went into the spiritual realm. I've got to tell
you something, my friend. We need more people like you.

Well
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bill, I thank you very much for that.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. Thank you.
a
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where were you? What were you doing? That's a good point that Bill
brings up. What were you doing before? The last week you said that your thing was you never thought
you were so cute
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): but that you had, that you thought, you thought that you had such a
great intellectual mind.
was
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what were you doing?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): an

intellectual. I got into university fairly late because I left school at 13 or 14. And then later, when I was
18, I went to live in England, and then I took, suddenly became interested in intellectual things. I was
searching, becoming already more and more unhappy.
thought all the answers would be found on the intellectual level.
Page 12 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what were you planning on doing? Not being a spiritual teacher,
obviously.
becoming a professor and then have all the answers too life, and then, after a while, I realized that they
don't have the answers.
became more and more depressed and unhappy, and then, suddenly, something snapped inside and this
dis-identification from my mind happened.

Which happened to our friend
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bill.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bill
while he was reading the book because when somebody reads the book and has such a powerful
response to it, that means the, the reading of the book coincides with his own awakening.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As he

reads. But this happens because he was so ready for it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause he was ready.
know, ready for it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hm.
wonderful to see when that happens.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When that happens. But, okay, we were talking earlier about the, the ego
loves complaining. First of all, loves to believe what, loves to identify with the thoughts in the head
Page 13 of 59
and believe those thoughts and loves to complain. But aren't there some things legitimately worth
complaining about? You know, you know, anybody who's ever gone into house construction at some
point or another is told a story by the construction workers, unless you have the most amazing, you
know, that this is going to be finished at a certain time or it's going to be a certain price and then it
doesn't, often doesn't turn out to be what you expected. That's a complaint a lot of people have. Isn't
that legitimate?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like you talk in the book about, "My soup is cold."
In a restaurant?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And they're, yeah, in a restaurant. "My soup is cold." Sometimes your
soup is cold.
right.

that's all the complaining that we are talking about, mainly hear the egoic complaining, most of that
fulfills no real purpose because it's not meant to bring about change in any situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Okay, that's complaining in resentment complaining.
It can, and a lot of it for many people happens only in the head.

Sometimes they verbalize it also. But a lot of the complaining happens in the head alone. But no matter
whether they verbalize it or whether the complaining happens in the head alone, in probably 90 percent
of the cases it has no real purpose because it's not meant to bring about change, it's meant to strengthen
the ego.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I see that.
Page 14 of 59
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And,
and then, of course
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I see it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): as

there are situations, of course, where something needs to be said in order to bring about change in the
situation, and that's a completely different kind of complaining where you say something so that
change can happen. For example, the cold soup in the restaurant. You say
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "the
soup is cold. Please bring me a hot soup."
fine. You could call that also complaining, and there are also two ways of, as far as this kind of
complaining is concerned, that it's connected to a real situation and is meant to bring about change.

There's one way of complaining with, with ego in that situation also, and that is when you, the ego is
attempting to make somebody wrong. The personal element comes into it, and it's a negativity that
flows into it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To make somebody wrong because my soup is cold
They
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Dammit.
right.

You're personalizing it and so you're making another person almost one would say into an enemy
Page 15 of 59

when you're complaining that way. So whether it's somebody who's a builder who is working on
your home, then, and so you, there is a way of complaining. I wouldn't even perhaps call it
complaining or simply stating what the situation is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stating the facts.
Without the negativity that flows into it when the ego does it.
so that can be practiced. And the, whatever you are stating in order to bring about change is actually
going to be much more effective if it's done without the negativity. Because if it comes with negativity,
it provokes a negative reaction in the other, and so the whole situation then becomes a conflict
situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As you say, "See if you can catch, that is to say, notice, the voice in the
head, perhaps"I'm on page 64 everybody, second paragraph. "Perhaps in the very moment it
complains about something, recognize it for what it is: the voice of the ego." And then later you say,
"The moment you became aware of the ego in you"this is midparagraph"it's strictly speaking no
longer the ego, but just an old, conditioned mind-pattern."
Because ego means you're not aware of it. So ego means unconsciousness. So a good thing that people
can ask themselves when they become aware of this complaining voice in the head or the verbalized
complaining voice: "Is this meant to bring about change in the situation?" And if they look at it clearly,
often they will say no.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No. It's just hearing myself complain.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because it keeps fueling my sense of righteousness.
And, and
Page 16 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And rightness.
what the complaining voice also loves is to get confirmation from somebody else that, "Yes, you are,
you're right to complain." So then two people join.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, yeah. And then you just fuel it on and on and on and on.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And love it.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Doris is Skyping us from outside of London, England. Doris, what's
your question? Hello?
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): What an amazing day or evening. Um, the book resonated very
deeply within me, I must say, and reading the, on, on page 62, the first paragraph, "resentment is the
emotion that goes with complaining," it started the question within me, and I thought like, but where
do hurt feelings belong to? Is this something that my ego tells me to feel or where do they come from,
Eckhart?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Can
you give a situation, an actual, it's always easier to talk about this when you can look at an actual
situation where, for example, you experience
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Well, hurt feelings, you know, can have most of the time is some
outside, either way, somebody is telling you something that hurts you personally.
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): But what about sadness? You know, you lose a person or, you
know, hurt feelings come from many different sources. Where do they come from?
Page 17 of 59
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): How do they relate to the ego?
you. Okay.
often it happens that, let's say, somebody criticizes you and you feel hurt.

Because perhaps you had, were attached to what you were doing and
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): you
hurt. Now, what is it in you that feels hurt? And yes, it is the ego that feels hurt.
so when that happens all you do is, first of all, you, you can't say, "Oh, I shouldn't be feeling hurt, and I
shouldn't have an ego." It doesn't work. You simply accept that this is what
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): you
are feeling right now and you recognize what it is in you that is producing the feeling.
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Ah, okay. Just take it in?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It, it's
a mental image of yourself that has become hurt. Because most people think of themselves as, as good
people or, and if somebody says, "you are no good," immediately something feels hurt. And many
people get extremely angry. They're not only hurt. For many people that immediately turns into anger.
And so the ego wants to immediately defend itself. Even driving in traffic
Page 18 of 59
often let's say you're driving and another driver suddenly calls you "idiot." That hurts. On one level,
it hurts. It hurts the ego, and, usually immediately, the ego goes into self-repair mode as I call it
will shout something back in order to repair itself. But
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm laughing at you because I mean I'm thinking, you know, if
somebody calls me an idiot, once, somebody gave me the finger once, and I was like, "Gee, that's, he
gave me the finger." But I don't think, I don't remember being hurt about it. I was so stunned by it. But,
but, but yeah.
other, many people would be hurt.
you were not because you were
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought, "What a bad day he's having."
You were
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): in

touch with a deeper level of yourself where nothing is hurt.

Where it, you can't be hurt on that level.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or, or when I used to take taxis all the time, when I'd have a taxi driver
in a really bad mood, the worst he, if he was in a horrible mood, I would tip him double extra so that
he'd be nicer for the next person. Really.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sorry.
Page 19 of 59
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): That's a good one.
even, there's a, a story about a, an official in Japan, a high government official went to see his Zen
master, and he asked the Zen master, "Can you explain to me what the self is?" Self really means ego
because really just talk about the self in Buddhism. "Can you explain to me what the self is?" And the
Zen master said, "What a stupid question is that? Why you ask me such stupid questions?" And
immediately the, the government official said, "How dare you talk to me like that. Don't you know
who I am?" And the master said, "That's the ego."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's the ego.
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. Got it. Got it.
this, this person got hurt but in him he, immediately the hurt turned into anger.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So any time you have hurt feelings, that is your ego?
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Mm-hmm.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now you say here, also, Doris, on page 65 he says, "A long-standing
resentment is called a grievance. To carry a grievance is to be in a permanent state of 'against,' and that
is why grievances constitute a significant part of many people's ego. Collective grievances can survive
for centuries in a psyche of a nation."
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We know that.
Page 20 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Or a tribe and fuel a never ending cycle of violence." And so I guess
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, but isn't
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): all of us need to ask what are the grievances
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that we allow ourselves to carry? Yeah. Family grievances.

Families.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that carry on and you don't even, you forget why you're carrying the
grievance.

Personal grievances, family grievances, grievances between tribes, religious groups, nations and so on.
Dreadful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so are you saying no grievance has a justification at all? All
grievances are based in the, as the core of the ego?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's an
essential part of the ego to hold grievances. The ego keeps itself alive. It's one of the ways in which the
ego keeps itself alive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You also say on page 66 here, Doris, "Don't try to let go of the
grievance. Trying to let go, to forgive, does not work. Forgiveness happens naturally when you see that
it has no purpose other than to strengthen a false sense of yourself." Forgiveness happens
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): when you realize that being resentful is only to build up your ego. But
that resentment is only helping you carry around this false sense of who you are. I got that. I got that.
You got that, Doris?
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And
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes, I got it too. Yes, thank you very much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got it too. Good. All the way in London. Thank you very much.
you.
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): All the way. Oh, yeah, thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have Tim, a retired Air Force officer who lives in Sicily on the line.
Hi, Tim. Your question?
TIM (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hello, Oprah. How are you doing?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good. Good to talk to you.
TIM (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hey, good to talk to you. Thank you for this opportunity. It's a, it's a
real honor to be talking to you and Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Your question?
TIM (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm, I want to put this in context first. I'm jumping ahead to page 74,
where Eckhart mentions that sometimes you, you need to protect yourself against the deeply
unconscious. So in that context, my question is, in the case of war, if I protect myself and others via
violence, I seem to be part of the insanity that he talks about. But, but to surrender our lives to, you
know, any unconscious mass of people seems to push us closer to, to extinction. And I guess my
question is, are my defensive actions bringing humankind closer to or further away from a collective
enlightenment? And then as a follow-up I would just ask, you know, is it possible personally, can I
fight a war and stay in the present? You know, keep that space between my ego and, and my true self?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Whew, that's a, those are brilliant questions. Thoughtful.
Yeah.
Page 22 of 59
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Tim, for asking.
TIM (AUDIENCE MEMBER): No, no, thank you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I have
personally known people and read accounts of people who've actually experienced an awakening in the
midst of the turmoil of a war situation. When death was imminent, could happen at any second, and
something within them suddenly disidentified. The ego broke down in the midst of the suffering
generated by that situation. The ego collapsed as it also has happened to people in the concentration
camps and prison camps.

regularly get letters from people in prison who tell me that they have suddenly become free. They are
still prison, but they consider themselves free.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So we

are, we are talking perhaps here not only about war but any kind of situation that usually would be
described as extremely negative and unconscious, and is it possible to awaken there? Yes, it happens.
I'd say that every human being has a spiritual teacher. For most humans, their spiritual teacher is their
suffering. And a war situation is an extreme form of suffering. And, ultimately, whatever happens here
will lead us to awakening, even something that looks on the surface very negative, like a war situation.
Eventually, even that will lead us into an awakening. And it's already happening. So, yes, it is possible
in the midst of war to suddenly awaken. What will happen then, I cannot foretell. It depends on
whatever the situation is. It is also true to say that once you have awakened, it is very unlikely that you
would still become part of violence. I'm not saying it could not happen. Nothing can be said
categorically.
you no longer resonate with violence. Now, so that if war will no longer happen when a certain number
of people have, I don't know what the critical mass is.
Page 23 of 59

certain number of people have entered the awakened state, so they no longer generate the
unconsciousness, the negativity that produces war. That's perhaps
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's where we're evolving to.

are evolving to that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We haven't done so good in the 20th century nor 21st.
The 20th century
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thus far.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): was
dreadful, the most dreadful. It, almost as if the ego had reached a climax there, the madness of it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Mm-hmm.
we can see a lot of that still flowing now into the 21st century also, but at the same time something is
happening in this century that is quite unprecedented. Well, it started in the later part of the last
century. This awakening is quite unprecedented. Well, if you look, for example, in previous war
situations there was very little
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Challenges to it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It was
never challenged by the people.
Page 24 of 59
now this is very different.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. You actually say in Chapter 4 you talk about how the hippie
movement
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): in the United States brought about a shift in consciousness. The
movement itself started to fall apart, but the hippies actually brought a challenge to the status quo as
we knew it. The hippies said
They also, it was a disidentification from the collective image.
collective, which until that point people had very strongly identified with the collective.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Behaved a certain way.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did things as they were told. Obeyed the status quo. Yes. All right. You
say, "Ego takes everything personally." Back to what Doris was saying earlier. "Ego takes everything
personally. Emotion arises, defensiveness, perhaps even aggression. Are you defending the truth? No,
the truth, in any case, needs no defense." Yeah.
So when people argue, usually an argument, often arguments turn into violence if people are very
unconscious, and many of you still are. Arguments turn into violence. So, so when people argue about
something, usually what happens is they are so identified with their opinion about
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Of being right.
Being right. Their mental position.
Page 25 of 59
any questioning of their mental position of their opinion or their viewpoint is regarded as attack on
them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Yeah.
this is how the ego gets confused with who you are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, I will tell you a funny story that I was reading this book, and
Stedman and I were at dinner, just the two of us, talking about what are the most important questions
in life? And said, I said one, I said, "I believe one of the most important questions in life is to, to know
whether or not, is just to, to know, to believe whether the universe is compassionate or not
compassionate." And he said, "Well, I disagree with you. I think the most important thing is whether or
not you know how to work on your strengths." I go, "Well, that's ridiculous 'cause the most important
thing is, do you believe that, whether the universe is compassionate or not?" And so we're arguing
about whether or not the universe is compassionate or not compassionate. And he didn't agree with my,
my view and I said "Well, you know, I know I'm right." I ended up clearing the table, leaving the table
and going upstairs. Because I don't want to have the conversation anymore. And, you know, half an
hour passes. He comes up and he says, "Okay, you're right. You're right." I go, "Never mind, I don't
need to be right. I, I don't need to be right." And then I realized that yes, that is exactly what happened.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): My ego is arguing because it is defending its right to be right.

Identification with a mental position, with a concept in the head
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): can
happen so easily.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. And we're talking about compassionate issues.
Page 26 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or non compassionate issues.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, my friend Kidada Jones, who I was at her father's 75th birthday
party the other night. Quincy Jones turned 75, everybody. And Kidada was there, his daughter. And we
started talking about A New Earth, and she had so many questions that I said, "Kidada, why don't you
just Skype us on Monday?" And here you are. Hello, Kidada.
KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Eckhart. Hi, Oprah. How are you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Fine. And your question?
KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Okay, my question is, this book hits me really, really deep in my
heart, and I know it to be the truth. But I have such resistance, and I feel like if everything in form is an
illusion, it feels really disenchanting. And I'm in a point in my life where I have goals. I'm excited
about my career. I want to have kids. I want to meet a great partner. And if it's all illusion, where's the
fun?

There's
KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): That the ego?

You're not meant to believe that all is illusion. That, that you're at a stage in your life where you can
simply enjoy the play of form. Eventually, you will come to a point, as every human does where the,
the forms in your life are no longer completely satisfying. They leave a certain emptiness and even
frustration. But you haven't reached that point yet. That's fine. In the meantime, you enjoy your life. Be
as present as you can, which means don't project yourself continuously into some future moment that
promises more and greater fulfillment. But if, if that happens, and if you can't help it, that's fine too.
why not enjoy this moment as it is? Really, that's all you can do. This is not to take the joy out of life,
it's to really deepen the way in which you live rather than living on the surface of things and expecting
fulfillment through relatively superficial things.
Page 27 of 59
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Going
deeper to a place where true joy resides.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. I think that's a good question though that you, you raise, Kidada,
especially I've heard this from a lot of people your age who say, "So now where is ambition?
Ambition, is ambition my ego?" Good question.
KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right. You want to hit career strides, you want to see things
happen. You're excited to meet somebody. You're going to have a baby that you're going to be madly
in love with and then I hear Eckhart's voice, and I have to remember my ego, remember that it's form
and it just kind of makes me feel a little unexcited. But I guess it's not being in the moment so
there comes a point when you can see the truth of this very clearly in your own life.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Until
you can see the truth of it very clearly in your own life, in your own life, the, the book remains on the
conceptual level, and so I wouldn't say that there's anything in the book that you should believe in. If
the book works for you, the truth of it is immediately recognized like in Bill, who we talked to earlier.
The truth of it is immediately recognized, and there's a sense of, "Ah, yes." But at 20 I would not have
understood the truth in this book. I had ambitions. I wanted to become a great professor. I wanted to be
seen as, to be successful. I wanted to show to the world that I can make it. So I was working hard. If at
that point I had read this book, I would have said the same as you, "I don't want this right now. I don't
need this."
book really, as long as you feel it you don't really need it, it's fine. You should carry on with what
you're doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't even hear her saying she doesn't need it. I think
KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Oh, I, I totally need it. I totally know that this book is real and
true, and I'm actually turning 34 in a week. So it's really, really, really important for me to figure out
how to integrate consciousness into this next chapter. I want to approach it in a very conscious way.
But there's still probably a little part of me, a lot of part of me, that's gripping onto the form. I live in
Page 28 of 59
Los Angeles. I'm in a business where form is at the forefront. It's kind of a hard balance. I'm just
wondering how do you reap the fruits and not identify to the form.
forms. You can enjoy the forms, and you can really only truly enjoy the forms if you are not
completely identified with the forms.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good.

Because if you are completely identified with the forms, there's always an element of fear that the form
might leave you.

situation that you have, whatever. The form might leave you or it will suddenly the form will no longer
be satisfying. So it's, the attachment to the form doesn't really mean that you enjoy it. The attachment
to the form produces negativity and produces fear around it, around your life situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's doing, Kidada, what I said, I think, on an earlier class. It's like
especially in Los Angeles. You know, great, fun, fun city, City of the Angels there. It's like being able
to be in the world but not of it.
Yes. And
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To be in the world but not of it.
And a lot of that, the attachment, um, is less likely to be there. The more present you are with any life
experience, the more present you are in the moment, then you are not, you're not attached. The
attachment needs future, needs more, looks to the future. Either it's a thread or hope. So be as present
as you can in every situation in your life, in every moment in your life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And what you were talking about, I think, in one of the future
chapters about being able to be present with your children instead of just going through the motions
with your children.
Page 29 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Being present with your children. Hey Kidada, great to see you on
Skype.
KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you for having me.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Mm-
hmm.
KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Bye.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's go to our study group, who's watching our webcast at Borders on
Michigan Avenue in Chicago. Hi, everybody.
GROUP (AUDIENCE MEMBERS): Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I hear Jamie is there and has a question.
JAMIE (AUDIENCE MEMBER : Yes. Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
JAMIE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): My name is Jamie. My question is, on page 83, you mention how
fame especially is such a downfall for the ego. And I'm just wondering, Oprah, how you manage to
keep everything so grounded.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I've
been meaning to ask you that too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? Oh, thanks for bringing that up, Jamie. How do I manage to
keep everything so grounded? I can, I thinkI believe that I'm not attached to the fame. I don't know
that to be true since I have been "famous" for most of my adult life. But I believe that I really amthat
what I do comes from such a, you know, I consider myself blessed. And I getI'm blessed because I
have acquired fame and attention and money by being myself.
it. You don't play roles.
Page 30 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. It's notI don't have to be anybody other than myself, and so
that's very rare. On television, almost everybody's playing a role. And your success is due to the fact
that you are yourself.

You're the same person outside television as you are here in the studio.
and really that can apply to anybody. The more you're truly yourself and not playing roles, the more
powerful you are. The ego tells you you need to play some role.
your true power lies in not playing a role.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I will say this. When I first started television, I was a news reporter and
never was satisfied. I've always felt that I was exploiting people. My whole day was based around
finding the worst story possible to report. And also, I was an anchorwoman. And something would
happen, Jamie, when the light would come on. Like on this camera there's a little, red light on. And all
of a sudden I'd be, like, talking like I am now, and the light would come on and I would suddenly go
into my newswoman anchor voice and play the role of the newswoman anchorperson that I thought I
was supposed to be. And one night I was reading some copy that I hadn't preread. And I was naming a
lot of countries, and Canada was on the list. And I called Canada, "Canahhda." And I started cracking
myself up that I said, "Did just call Canada Canahhda?" And that was the breakthrough moment for me
on television. That was the breakthrough moment
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hey.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where I was able for just a, you know, few seconds break through the
wall of my faade as an anchorwoman who knows all of the different countries and in Canahhda. And
that moment was such a funny moment for me I couldn't stop laughing and started the process of me
being able to be myself on the air, that first little glimpse of it. So, did you have a question for Eckhart?
Page 31 of 59
JAMIE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): With all, you know, this webcast and being on Oprah, obviously
you've come into incredible fame, and I didn't ask you the question cause this has been what you've
been preaching since, you know, since you wrote The Power of Now. But do you anticipate, are you
just completely self-actualized you don't expect this to be a problem or how do you expect fame to
come into play for you at all now?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Now this is so funny. Amy Gross who's the editor of O Magazine,
who's also a pretty centered person, we were talking about Eckhart did an article for us from a
conversation that we had earlier in O Magazine in our May issue. And so we were talking about
Eckhart coming for the first session a couple weeks ago. She says, "Won't we all be surprised if
Eckhart comes in a fur hat and three pounds of bling, wearing sunglasses with an entourage." If
Eckhart walks in and go, "Yo, wassup?" No, I don't think it's affected him, because this is so funny.
When I first called Eckhart months agomonths and monthsI don't even know how long ago it was,
to tell Eckhart that I was going to be choosing A New Earth as our Book Club selection. I think it's our
61st selection or whatever. He was veryhe was so calm about it. Later, one of the producers says,
"Well did you call him? Did you call him?" And I said, "Yeah, I called him." And he said, "Well was
he excited?" And I said, "I think for him that was excitement." As I said, "I'm choosing the book." He
goes, "Yes. Very good." So anyway, I don't think it's gone to his head yet. And listen, so far no bling.
itwhen it happens, then you'll know the ego has come back.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'll be
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So let
me know.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I will.
I won't know it if it comes back.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When Eckhart comes in wearing two earrings, I'll let you know. Okay.
Let's see. Thank you so much, Jamie. And all the group from Borders, thank you for being there every
week. Yay Borders. Michigan Avenue. Let's see some of the e-mail questions you've been sending
during our class on our computer screen here. This is Melissa from Crab Orchard, West Virginia. She
says she's being awakened with worry. "My sister's addicted to drugs. She's been through rehab to no
avail. Every day we worry about her. We fear she may die if she continues. My question is this, how
can we live awakened with this major, major distraction in our lives?" That's good.
the first thing, you need to take responsibility for your own life and your own stage of consciousness.
Page 32 of 59

Rather than thinking your primary responsibility is your sister's life and your sister's state of
consciousness, that's not the case. You have to start with yourself. Change can only begin with
yourself.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So are
you taking responsibility for your own state of consciousness rather than believing unconsciously that,
of course, you're worried and there's nothing else you can do. You have to look at what you call the
worry in yourself. The continuous mind activity that dwells on negativity. See if you can enter that
state of acceptance of presence and just be with yourself. I recommend to get out of the mind, go into
the body several times a day and connect with the feeling of aliveness within.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For yourself.

that the worrythe worry pretends. The worry is part of the ego. It's the compulsion to think.

Incessantly. And it serves no purpose, because it doesn't get you anywhere. It's similar to the
complaining. It has no useful purpose. It doesn't bring about change in any situation. No matter how
much you worry, it's never the worry that brings about any change in the situation. The mind may tell
you you need to worry because it has some purpose. It doesn't. So the essential thing is that you get out
of that unconscious habit of continuous worrying. So find a little bit of peace in yourself first to start
with. And it may be more than a little bit of peace. Start with a little. Is there any peace in you
underneath this continuous mental noise that we call worry?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Is

there anything else in you? And you have to find that you can only be of true service to your sister, you
can only be of truly, truly be an agent for change in this world if something has changed in your
state of consciousness. Otherwise, you contribute to the turmoil. So, find through meditating, through
bringing awareness to the present moment as much as possible, through bringing awareness into the
inner body, as much possible. Get out of the mind, and enter presence, and realize the mind may tell
Page 33 of 59
you this isyou're not helping your sister, this is the beginning where you may be able to truly be of
help to somebody else.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because the only thing you can do is really help yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But the mind tells you, "I have to save my sister."
And that's the
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you're saying is that is not necessarily true.
Ultimately, your sister is also responsible. It doesn't mean that one human being can not help another.
But what is essential when we asked whether you can be of help or not to another human being, is
there something in you that can bring about change in the consciousness of another human being?

Unless some change has happened inside you, it can't happen. And though this may talk more
generally about worry, is this is a problem for many, many people. They wake up in the middle of the
night worrying. During the day, they go about worrying about this or that. What does it mean to
worry? What does it mean? It means there is unconscious mind movement projecting itself, usually
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Into
future. And you see how dreadful the future is going to be, what's going to happen. You see outcomes
that are negative. Many things, of course, are never going to happen, but worry pretends to be
necessary. You have to see very clearly
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Worry pretends to be necessary.

Pretends to be necessary.
Page 34 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, I got that.
have to see that it serves no useful purpose.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Worry pretends to be necessary, but serves no useful purpose.
so once you see that it serves no useful purpose, you can sometimes may be able to step out of that and
see, "Oh." And then become present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You can become present. If you can step out of the worry for a
moment, you can become present enough to say, "What can I do now? How can I be now in this
moment."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For myself, for my sister or for whatever it is you need.
the greatest gift you can give to somebody, especially somebody who is suffering like a sister, when
you are with them what is your state of consciousness? Are you able to bring presence when you
connect with your sister or any other human being that you want to help? Can you be present with
them? Can you give them space to be? That's the healing. Healing. You can be an agent for healing of
another. Not in the sense that, "I am going to heal you."
believingthat would be ego again, "I'm going to heal you." No, simply be there as a conscious space
of presence not wanting to do anything. Just being there as a conscious presence with another person.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's very hard for people.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I understand it's very hard for people.
Page 35 of 59
that's why we call it theit's a shift.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a shift.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and I recognize how hard it is. I'm reading this book now from a
guest who's coming on the show called Beautiful Boy. You might have heard of it. It's the story of the
father. The father and the son both wrote a book together. It's going to be on the Oprah show later. His
son was an addict for many years, and very difficult for parents especially. And as in this case,
Melissa, a sister to a drug addict, to stand by and watch somebody daily attempt to kill themselves
through drugs.
yes.
and acceptance is also an important part of that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's at
the moment you need to accept
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stop resisting it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stop resisting.
bringing the resistance always into the relationship.
Page 36 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because "whatever you fight, you strengthen, and what you resist,
persists."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's at the top of page 75.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Whatever you fight, you strengthen, and what you resist, persists."
Why is that?

Because that's how theby opposing, you bringthis world works in terms of polarities. So if you
strengthen one polarity, you immediately strengthen the other. That's
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Physics.

Physics. Yes.

Exactly the same.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's physics. Okay. You say, "These days, you frequently hear the
expression 'the war against' this or that, and whenever you hear that, you know that it's condemned to
failure. There is a war against drugs, against crime, the war against terrorism, against cancer, against
poverty, and so on." And despite the war against all of these things, every one of those things is bigger
than ever.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because what "you fight, you strengthen, and what you
resist, persists."
And then the implication, of course, is there is another way of dealing with things, with situations.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is to make peace with it.
Page 37 of 59
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Make
peace with it. And then actiontake action. The action then comes out of a different state of
consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The action comes out of presence.

Presence. It's no longer reaction.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. It comes out of presence and not out of you being defensive about
it.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it.
the action is much more powerful and effective when it's not defensive and not negative.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have Dana from Monrovia, Liberia.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): On the phone. Hello.
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hello, Oprah. Hello, Eckhart. It's Dana.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. It's Dana. Hi, Dana.
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): How are you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, we're happy to talk to Monrovia.
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Good evening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello.
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Oh, thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your question?
Page 38 of 59
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Shall I go ahead?
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): My questhank you. My question has to do with nonreaction in

relationships. Would it be the same to say that the opposite of love is not hate, but rather indifference?
Considering if one makes that situation not a personal one.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. That's your question.
don't fully understand the question.
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you. Would it be
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't leave, Dana. Go ahead.
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Concerning nonreaction.
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Would it be the same to say that the opposite of love is not hate, but
rather indifference?
do you mean that nonreaction is indifference?
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Correct. That's what I'm asking.
okay.
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Particularly if one doesn't take it in a negative context.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I'm not sure what either one of y'all
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): You mean not letting negative consume one's person.
Page 39 of 59
nonreaction means that you recognize when another human being displays some sort of ego behavior,
wants to be right or wants you to be wrong or accuses you of this or that. Many times the ego manifests
in many different ways. You recognize that that is ego. And you don't react to it, which means you
don't confuse this behavior with who that human being is. It means you allow the ego to be there
without fighting that behavior. For example, I had Happened some years ago was an interesting
example. I had a plumber come in to do some repair at my place. He was extremely aggressive and
rude.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. The plumber?
plumber. And I treated him as if he were a noble guest, very polite and explained what needed to be
done, because I recognized that perhaps he had been trapped in this pattern for years. Maybe it started
with childhood when everybody around him was rude to him. So there was a deep-seated pattern of
rudeness and unpleasant behavior and of regarding other people as enemies.
didn't react, because I recognized that as a dysfunction in him.

wasn't him at all. So I simply accepted his behavior and pointed out this needs to be done and this.
After 20 minutes, he was trained completely. He was suddenly, "Thank you." For the first time,
perhaps.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Somebody was nice to him.

Somebody was nice because everybody else reacted to him in the same way that he acted.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): He

got the reaction.
Page 40 of 59
this is how most human beings encounter their daily reality.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's the cab driver situation.
And for most people their daily reality isn't really a reflection of their own inner predominant inner
state.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the enlightened part of ourselves, after having reading this book
being awakened, we realize what you're saying here in Chapter 3, "Core of the Ego." You should be
able to recognize the ego not only in yourself, but see it in other people.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In

other people.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So when you see that kind of reaction from someone.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You realize it's their ego. It's not them.
right. So it'sone could almost say it's like an illness. Like a mental
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the presence in you then gets to respond to
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Relate to the presence in them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, you got to be really highly evolved to do that.
not indifference, by the way. This is not indifference.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, that's just
Page 41 of 59
you're not indifferent.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's compassionate.

Compassion.
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Understood, understood.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Understood.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In fact
it's
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. Thank you for that clarity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thank you, Dana.
the question is, you say you need to be highly evolved. Well
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Cause most people just react.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It is

true to say.
at first the reaction is so automatic when somebody behaves unconsciously to react in the same ways
very automatic.
Page 42 of 59
as people begin to become more aware of their egos, usually after it's happened, they become aware
that they reacted in the old ego way. After it'safter the event. Then, after a while, in the middle of
reacting to somebody's ego, you suddenly become aware that that's what you're doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Somebody just told me this last night. And this happens a lot, you know,
with the airlines, where my goodness. If you can get from onefrom point A to point B on
commercial airlines these days without losing your luggage or flights being canceled or sitting on the
tarmac or whatever, and they were reading the book. And in the midst of, you know, schedule for the
flight. I'm sure this has happened to many of you. Schedule for the flight, everything's fine, you get
there, and there's no seat. There's no seat. And people, other people didn't have their seats. And people
around them were just imploding. And this person said that they decided to remain calm. This is my
godson, as a matter of fact. And people all around him were going nuts. And suddenly out of nowhere
after about a half an hour, not out of nowhere, about a half an hour, the person behind the counter
called the names. And of all the names they called, they called his who had been sitting their calm.
Now they didn't know him from anybody else, but you know, it eventually worked out. Not saying that
it always works out, but he realized after reading the book that it makes no sense to get crazy.
Not only that, but also it's true that things are much more likely to work out when you are in a
harmonious state of consciousness and not in resistance.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which brings us to page 77. "Do you want peace or drama?" You say
we all want peace. "There's no one who doesn't want peace. Yet there's something else in you that
wants the drama, wants the conflict." And whenever you're moving in the drama, you can, as we all
can, I think now, a little bit anyway, detach from the thought, see yourself having the thought,
recognize that you. The you, the I of "I am," is the awareness that you're having the thought. When you
can see all the drama, just detach a little bit, you've done what?
the vital thing. To see it in the midst of it. To suddenly become aware that this is an old pattern in you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): An

ego pattern in you. It may not even stop immediately, but at least suddenly there is a witnessing
presence in the background.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. But the ego wants to complain. The ego wants to be resentful.
The ego wants drama.
Page 43 of 59
to see that in oneself.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): One
could call it almost, there is in humans something that we could call the addiction to unhappiness.
you are unhappy for whatever reason, once you are trapped in that energy of unhappiness, you don't
want to get out.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because your ego loves it.
So there is an addiction toactually, on some level you enjoy your unhappiness. And when you can
become aware of that.
suddenly, you're stepping out.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let's talk about the power of awareness you talk about on page 78. "A
power comes into your life that is far greater than the ego, greater than the mind. All that is required to
become free of the ego is to be aware of it, since awareness and ego are incompatible." This is page 78,
first paragraph. "Awareness is the power that is concealed within the present moment. This is why we
may also call it Presence. And the ultimate purpose of human existence, which is to say your purpose,
is to bring that power or that presence into this world."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is why we're here.
That is the universal, the impulse, the universal impulse, the evolution of consciousness. That is the
Page 44 of 59
impulse behind the universe. The universe is moving toward the evolution of consciousness. And we
are one manifestation of the evolution of consciousness into this world.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're one.
There are many others.
a plant is a manifestation.

that already.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But our ultimate purpose of human existence is to bring that presence,
that awareness, into the world, and to become more aware in our daily lives, so that, regardless of what
you're doing in your form world, in your form life, that you recognize, as you say on page 79, "Can I
sense my essential Beingness, the I Am, in the background of my life at all times?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "To be more accurate, can I sense the I Am that I Am at this moment?"
And an easy step towards that is the inner acceptance of this moment as it is.

Without wanting it to be different or rejecting it or resisting it. If you can accept, if you can see that the
primary thing in your life is the present moment because there's never anything else.
always now. So you must see if you can have a good relationship with the now because if you don't
have a good relationship with the now, you don't have a good relationship with life. Because life is
now.
Page 45 of 59

accepting this moment as it is can connect you with that dimension of depth in yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is how we begin to quieten or quiet the go.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is by being more fully present now.
the exit out of the ego, the now.
now is the hidden exit because the ego doesn't want you to know that. That there is an exit, and it's
called, "now."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Exit is
the door out of the ego. The now is the door.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is the exit.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The now is the exit door.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Out of
the ego. Yes, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And so whenever you find yourself complaining, whenever you
find yourself, as we said last week, the need to fell supyou feel superior or inferior to someone else,
you know that it's your ego. Whenever you recognize that this is my ego and can bring yourself to the
present moment of what is going on now and can see yourself doing it.
Page 46 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That is awakening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Ginger is a singer/songwriter living in Berlin and is calling us via
Skype. Hello.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Berlin, Germany, hello.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi Eckhart. Hallo. Schne Gre aus Berlin.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I guess that meant hello.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, exactly.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Well, I feel like I am aware of the things that I do that are
destructive, and I can't seem to stop them anyway. I feel like I label things that are bad for me, and then
I resist them. Like eating fried food or drinking too much or relationships. I resist them, and I feel like
it causes a source of anxiety. And sometimes the huge decisions in my life come easily, but these little
things, little decisions every day, they pile up and become a source of anxiety. So my question is, how
can we get to this inspired action and effortless doing, not only when it comes to the big decisions, but
when it comes to making healthy choices in our everyday lives?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Amen. Good question. Thank you, Ginger.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How doyeah, causeyeah, I was saying this to

GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I know I'm doing it. I just do it anyway.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Yeah. Why does it have to be a struggle just to do the right thing
in terms of, you know. For me it's food always. It's always about food. How can it become effortless?
Isn't that your question, Ginger?
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah.
Page 47 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And are you talking aboutfor me this would be about potato chips.
What is this about for you?
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): For me, it's red wine, french fries.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. A little red wine every now and then.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And a few other things, of course, too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Okay. Go ahead.
you mean when you eat french fries.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And she knows that they're not so good for her.
then there's a voice in the head that says you shouldn't be eating them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah.

Nevertheless, you are eating them.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): A tennis match is more like it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A lot
of eating, overeating, has a lot to do with the ego also. Because the ego lives in a constant state of not
enough. It always seeks something else to fill itself. And usually it's experiences, to identify with this
or that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Things.

Things. But it's also the need for more, as I call it, that is built into the ego.
Page 48 of 59
Sometimes can get transferred to the body, and then you experience it as the desire to eat much more
than the body really wants. It's to take in more. So really to eat consciously, really, is the way out of it.
For example, I would suggest that when you eat your french fries.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): French fries.

make a meditation out of it and eat them consciously without having a secondary entity in your head
that says you shouldn't be eating them. Eat them fully and consciously, and at the same time feel how
your body feels while you eat them and after you've eaten them. Then you bring some presence into it,
and you may realize in some cases that the body doesn't actually want to eat them. It was the mind that
wanted to eat the potato.
so, eat consciously. If you eat a sandwich, if you feel, if you go to the fridge. Sometimes people get up
in the middle of the night.
open the door, and you reach in, and there's need for, "I need to get"
body doesn't need it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're trying to feed something.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Feed
something. Yes. And so.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): For me, it's also the anxiety that the resistance, not just for food,
but things that I label as bad for me seem to cause a lot of anxiety
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What he's saying is stop resisting. Actually after reading this book, I've
been trying this lately. Exactly what you said. And this is what you'll find if you stop resisting it.
Because the french fries are not bad. It's the thought in your head that has told you that the French fries
Page 49 of 59
are bad. And if you do what he is recommending, if you sit and you consciously make it a meditation,
what you will find is you won't eat, you know, two bags of french fries unconsciously. That you will
enjoy every single french fry, and in the enjoyment and the pleasure, if you stop when it's no longer
pleasurable, you know. It's no longer pleasurable after three or four or five. By the time
you've eaten a whole bag of them, you don't even taste it anymore. So he's saying make it a meditation,
be with it, feel it, sense it, allow your whole body to be with it, feel it, sense it. And when you're done
with the pleasure of it, let it go.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what you're saying, correct?
Yes.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's with the red wine too.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And other things as well, I suspect.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And other things as well.
I was in my
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Be with it. Be with it.
When I was in my 20s, as young people do, I would often get drunk. Nowadays, I still enjoy a glass of
wine.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. You do.

enjoy it very much.
Page 50 of 59
know after I've had one glass of wine, sometimes ask, "Does my body want another glass of wine?"
And usually I cannot drink more than one glass.
very rare that I would drink two glasses of wine, because that's exactlythe body says, "No more."
You can sense your body. It will often tell you whether it's right or not to eat or drink something.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, that's a very good point that you just made. I just had an epiphany.
Cause you don't become overweight or even drunk or intoxicated as long as you are acting
consciously. It's when you become unconscious that you eat too much, unconscious that you drink too
much. Unconscious is when you become obsessively indulgent.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With things.
All these addictions are unconscious.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are unconscious. Ginger from Berlin. Love that green you're wearing,
girl. That's fantastic.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thanks for joining us.
GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Happy Saint Patrick's Day.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Enjoy
your fries.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Enjoy. Yeah. Have a glass of wine. Consciously. Page 78, everybody,
bottom paragraph. "What is spiritual realization? The belief that you are spirit?" You say no. That is a
thought. "A little closer to the truth than the thought that believes you are who your birth certificate
says you are, but still a thought." So, we're not spirit? I thought we were spirit. What is that saying?
"That we are spiritual beings having a human experience?"
Page 51 of 59
that's very good. But
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, but we're not spirit.
That when we say we are "spiritual beings having a human experience," it is not yet the realization that
we are. It's the belief that we are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, okay.

there is a step that goes from the belief. Belief is stillit's a mental concept. It's a little closer, as I say,
to believing that you are what your birth certificate says you are.
it's not the realization. No thought that you have about yourself is realization.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, well this is another thing, you know. A lot of people are still very
conflicted about this spirituality and their religion. And what I hear you saying, feel you saying in this
book is, is that this book isn't about believing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This book is about what you come to know for yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. What you come to feel for yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that what you're saying is that God, in the essence of all
consciousness, isn't something to believe. God is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): God is. And God is a feeling experience, not a believing experience.
Page 52 of 59
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And if you'reand that your religion is a believing experience. If God
for you is still about a belief, then it's not truly God.
At best, to believe is a transitional thing.
from there, you go on to the realization that there is no separation between you and God. Between you
and the source of life.
you are one with the source. And you can not realize that through thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Believing. It's not a belief.
not a thought.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not a thought.
direct realization within yourself. And it's there in the gap between two thoughts. And, conceptually,
you may not know anymore. You may not have an opinion of who you are anymore. And yet, a very
deep level, there's a knowing that can not be put into words.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "So what is spiritualization? The belief that you are spirit? No, that's a
thought. Closer to the truth than the thought that believes you are who are that your birth certificate
says you are, but still a thought. Spiritualization is to see clearly." On the bottom of page 78,
everybody. "Spiritual realization is to see clearly that what I perceive, experience, think, or feel is
ultimately not who I am, that I cannot find myself in all those things that continuously pass away."
Page 53 of 59
So you are the space for all those things. You are the consciousness.
awareness in which all those things, experiences, sense perceptions, thoughts, emotions come. They
appear. You are Jesus says, "You are the light of the world." That means you are the consciousness
in which the world appears, is seen. And the consciousness itself has no form. It is formless, and it
nothing to do with time. It's the dimension of the timeless in yourself. Eternity is the religious term for
it.
most religious people, when they use "eternity," it's a very abstract concept.

"Eternity, what do I do with that?" Or they believe it's continuous time that never ends.
would be extremely boring if youeternity, there's no end to time would become very boring. I
wouldn't want things to go on forever, my life to go on forever, ever, ever. But finding the timeless
dimension is a very different thing in yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Timelessness is very different than eternity is you're saying.
true meaning of "eternity" is timelessness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is timelessness.
usually misinterpreted as meaning endless time.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): On and on and on and on.
Page 54 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that.

there is in every human being, underneath all the stream of thinking and underneath the emotions, there
is that dimension where timelessness or eternity dwells. And that is the essence of who you are. And
that is consciousness itself. And you can know it by realizing that you are the space for whatever
happens in your life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Space
of consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Deep. I must say that's pretty deep there, Eckhart. We're on page 80,
everybody. One of my favorite quotes in the entire book that actually I used in one of our ads in O
Magazine. "Only the truth of who you are, if realized, will set you free."
Know who you are, and you are free. But know who you are doesn't mean that suddenly you have an
answer in your head. There's a stillness, and in that stillness, when you accept that you don't know who
you are, as I say somewhere in the book.
you completely accept that you've realized all the things that you thought you were is not really who
you are, and then you come to a point where you don't know who you are, and if you can fully accept
that you don't know who you are, you are closer to who you are than you were ever before.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Once you realize and accept that all structures,'" page 81, "(forms) are
unstable, even the seemingly solid material ones, peace arises within you. This is because the
recognition of the impermanence of all forms awakens you to the dimension of the formless within."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're calling timelessness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "That which is beyond death. Jesus called it 'eternal life.'"
Page 55 of 59
Eternal life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you believe what happens to us at death, when the body dies? You
don't have a belief.
give it any thought.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, did you ever think about it, Eckhart?

know that the essence of who I am, which is the essence of who you are, is indestructible. I know that
directly, on a feeling level, and you can also know it even if you talk to a physicist. He will tell you
that energy never gets destroyed. It can only
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Change forms.

Transform.

whatever it is that animates this physical form, at some point, whatever it is that animates this physical
for is going to no longer animate this form. And that is when you see a dead body. And when you see a
dead body, you seea year and a half ago, both my parents died within the space of a few months.
And I saw very clearly each timeI saw my mother's body lying there. A few months later, I saw my
father's body lying in the coffin. And I realized the form was still there, but the essence of that being
was not present. So the essence of their being was never the form. It was no longer there. And that
which animates the form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The essence of that being was never the form.
Page 56 of 59
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Was
never.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The essence of that being inhabited the form.
because
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And now it no longer inhabited the form.
So you could see there was only a shell there. And that was such a clear realization.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Many people who have seen their loved ones in the casket see
that.
So that which was the life within that form was always invisible. All you could ever see was the form.
Maybe you could sense the life within the form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ah.
the life is always invisible. And the life ultimately has no form itself.
so you see, suddenly somebody dies, the essence is gone. The life within the form.

gone.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what you're saying, again on page 79, is to be able to be in form and
be able to sense the formlessness of yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To be in form and to sense that there is an essential beingness or
formliness, formlessness, the I am in the background of our life at all times. And that awareness, that
Page 57 of 59
formlessness, is what can, can hear, see, sense the thoughts that are going on all the time. And there's a
little space, just a space, between the thoughts and the awareness of the thoughts. And that is where
we, I, reside.
You are the awareness. You are consciousness. Appearing as a person for a little while, but in essence
you are consciousness. And consciousnessas consciousness, you are timeless. You are eternal in the
sense of timeless.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when the form itself is lying there in the casket, that timeless
formlessness has gone where?

Transformed toeither to join with the source or to go through further experiences, experiences of
awakening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In ways that our mind cannot even comprehend.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Before we say goodbye, I want to thank all of you around the
world for making this remarkable experience possible. Eckhart and I will be here again next Monday at
8 p.m. Central. This third class will be available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. And
if you want to download a podcast of any of our three classes, you can do that tomorrow at Oprah.com
and iTunes. So what did you want to say in conclusion about the core of the ego?
core of the ego. The ego, sometimes we look at it as if it were an entity.
really, it's just a form of unconsciousness. It appears to be an entity sometimes. It is now threatening.
Never regarded as an enemy or something that you need to get rid of. It's only to be recognized for
what it is.
and then the ego has fulfilled its purpose. It has taken you to that point of awakening. So in order to
awaken, humans havewere in the state of oneness with the source when they first came here, and
then they lost themselves.
Page 58 of 59
lost themselves in thinking. They lost themselves in the mind. They lost themselves in the ego. And
then they reached the stage where this state of being lost produces so much suffering that this dream of
life becomes a nightmare, and they start waking up. This is the stage that we have reached now. So as
we wake up, we regain the state that we once had, that we lost. The state of oneness with life,
oneness
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So we're waking up now.

Oneness with the source. But when we regain it, we regain it as a deeper level because we are
conscious of it now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wonderful. Thank you. Can't wait till next week because, you know,
this week we're talking about all the things that form the core of the ego. How the ego loves to
complain and it loves to be right and it loves drama and all of that. Next week we talk about role-
playing, all the many faces of the ego. How so many of us believe that we are the roles that we play.
That's next week. Thanks, everybody. Another night. Yay. That's good. Good. That's good.
Page 59 of 59
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome, everybody, to week number four of our New Earth Web
class. Thank you again for joining us as we come together to study and to discuss our 61st Book Club
selection, Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth. I'm just so happy that so many of you around the world are
making time, you're giving time to yourself every week to be awakened and we're all doing this
together. It is really my deepest hope that our collective consciousness will begin to create a powerful
transformation not only in our individual lives, but in the future of our planet. So welcome to you all,
and welcome, sir.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. A good week for you?
very good, thanks.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very good. So let's see what we've now started as a tradition.

moment of silence.
the question is where to put our attention. And this time, I suggest we put our attention into the feeling
of aliveness within. What I call the inner body to feel that it's actually live inside your hands. A good
place to start is always with the hands, to feel, "Yes, I can feel somehow that there is an aliveness in
here." The cells are alive. And that's the beginning of feeling, being able to feel the entire inner body,
the energy field as a global sense of aliveness. And just put our attention there rather than have it in the
head. And then we can enter actual stillness because stillness doesn't happen until the mind becomes
still. Usually, the mind doesn't stop until you take attention away from it and put it somewhere else. So
we're putting attention into the body. And so we can go into stillness just for half a minute or so.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you very much. Let us begin here on Chapter 4, which is a very
long chapter.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you wrote this, you must have been at it for a while.
Page 1 of 52
And in way, it reflects all the main themes in the book that actually are already contained in that
chapter.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. The chapter is called "Role-Playing: The Many Faces of the Ego."
So before we really begin I'd like to take a moment and talk about one of the most frequently asked
questions that we've received by far. So many people who are committed to the book and becoming
aware of a new way of thinking, a new way of consciousness, want to know how they can relate to
people in their lives who are not yet on this path and don't think they need to be. Sometimes it's a co-
worker or a friend or even a spouse who all have said to us on many of your e-mails, and it can feel
very divisive. I mean we got an e-mail from a gentleman who says, "Listen, my wife isn't interested in
this. I don't know what's going to happen to our relationship." So that question actually came up as one
of the last questions from Qatar, the very first session we had. But it's an ongoing question that a lot of
people, the more they become engaged in the book, are feeling and wanted your response to.
The main thing is the shift can only happen inside you. So not to expect other people to also change or
to expect or say, "I cannot change unless somebody close to me also changes." The main thing is to
take responsible for your own state of consciousness and allow other people, especially people that you
are close to, to be where they are, not to demand that because something is happening inside you and
you're beginning to change, not to demand that others should also change. Change does not come about
in others by trying to make them change. The most powerful way of bringing about change in others is
not trying to bring about change in the other but to completely accept the other as he or she is. So
that's, that is absolutely vital. There are even schools of psychotherapy that recognize that. So you give
the other person, complete acceptance. And that part of this change that's happening in us is that we
step out of the judgmental mind that continuously judges the other. So we step out of that, and if we
step out of the judgmental mind, we're able to simply accept the partner, close friend, the family
member, a relative. This is where they are at right now. They are still going for their old behavior
patterns.
has changed is you are no longer resisting their pattern and reacting to, and by reacting reinforcing
their pattern.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, that's right.

you're not taking part in that game anymore.
Page 2 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So part of your change has to be your willingness not to judge, you
know, to sit back and to be an observer in your own life, and then to more clearly see the ego in others
as you also see it in yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't judge it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just know that that's what it is.
And don't mistake what you're observing, the behavior that people manifest.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As, as them.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not,
that's not who they are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ay yiy yiy.
that's a vital distinction, because if you mistake that for who they are, then you will perpetuate that
kind of behavior. So that's not, it won't work. Acceptance is vital. Acceptance.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And isn't it sort of like, I mean all of you who've asked that question, it's
kind of like when people join the church or are, quote, born again, or, you know, we've heard about
being born again in the church or you find Jesus or you find Buddha or you discover a new way of
being for yourself and now you want everybody to go to Jesus
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and you want everybody to believe what you believe.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is part of your ego that now wants people to believe what you
believe.
Page 3 of 52
so that's a trap one can fall into even with this teaching which isn't really based on belief at all. So it's
not a new belief. We're not trying to find some new belief, it's going beyond, beyond the thinking
mind, into awareness. But there is always the danger when you discover something new; you want to
talk about it to others.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Want to share with everybody. Well, that's how we ended up with this
webcast because
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I wanted to share it with other people.
sometimes it works.

Because sometimes the other people is totally ready and

accepting and say, "Wow, I never realized that." But they recognize it from within because the
readiness is there.
the readiness is not there in everybody. So some people buy copies of A New Earth or The Power of
Now for their friends or relatives and then give them out and sometimes they are disappointed when
the other person says, "It doesn't make sense to me at all."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Doesn't make sense to me. Yeah.

means they're not yet ready and that's fine.
Page 4 of 52
Maybe they put it on the shelf and maybe ten years later they're ready, quite possible.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. So now for classroom I wanted to get that
question out because it come up over and over again on our message board. So now we're ready for
class number four. Tonight, we're going deeper into identifying the ego in all of its forms. Chapter 4,
"Role-Playing And The Many Faces of the Ego." Let me start by saying that I think the essence, it's a
long chapter. So we have a lot of to cover in a short period of time, these 90 minutes. But I think that
the essence of this chapter is what you say on page 104, everybody. That "you are a human being.
What does that mean? Mastery of life is not a question of control, but of finding a balance between
human and Being. Mother, father, husband, wife, young, old, the roles you play, the functions you
fulfill, whatever you doall that belongs to the human dimension. It has its place and needs to be
honored, but in itself it is not enough for a fulfilled, truly meaningful relationship or life. Human alone
is never enough, no matter how hard you try or what you achieve." I just love that sentence. I love it so
much I wrote, "Wow." Yeah, I wrote,"Wow." "Human alone is never enough, no matter how hard you
try or what you achieve. Then there is Being. It is found in the still, alert presence of Consciousness
itself. The Consciousness that you are. Human is form. Being is formless. Human and Being are not
separate, but interwoven." That's the essence, to me, of this chapter.
And you could say the essence of the whole teaching in a way.
good way of putting it. So, and, of course
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Human alone is never enough, no matter how hard you try or what you
achieve." And that is the essence of why people are in such suffering and such struggle and such, you
know, angst against themselves in life, is it not?
it's why they play roles because the ego plays roles because there's unawareness that within you there
is the source of all power. So people who are out of touch with the power within or the place where all
power resides, the aliveness itself, consciousness itself, then they feel a sense of lack. Why are they not
in touch with it? Because they are not present. They are not in the present moment because the present
moment is that entry point into that place of power within. If you are not present, you don't realize that
there is a source of power within, and then you believe that you need to get secondary power from
someone or some situation or other people. Then, the ego plays roles to manipulate the environment
and other people to get what it thinks it needs, not realizing that all the things it thinks will give it the
power that it seems to lack, all that is already within you, if you could only be present in the now.
Page 5 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. Okay. So the question is, how not to lose ourselves in the human
dimension. How not to? By being present in now.
And by realizing that whenever you lose yourself, realize
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the human dimension.
human
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's all the stuff that being human brings with it.
On the most primordial level, losing oneself means losing oneself in that continuous stream of thinking
that goes through people's heads.

you, it drives you along. It takes all your conscious attention. Remember we started to tell you it's
taking attention away from mind and putting it into the body.

Another thing you can do is take attention away from thinking and put it into sense perceptions and
really look and listen and touch things. Like an alertness arises.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know what I found by doing this, I don't know about the rest of
you, but I have found by being more present, just doing that one exercise, putting yourselfif I'm
walking along a path in the woods near my house, be there and not be, you know, in my head thinking
about what I need to do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just to be there. And what I found is, I don't know if you all are realizing
this too, you are just less stressed.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Less
stressed.
Page 6 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're just less stressed. You're calmer.
And you don't carry the heavy burden of a personality or meaning with a burden of past and future.
"My problematic future, my problematic past." You're much more, you're light and free when you walk
in presence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. But my hairdresser Andre asked me this, this morning. So I'm
going to ask you. Then how do you plan for anything if you're not thinking about the future? How do
you get anything done?
plan in the present moment. When the time comes to plan, and the time is not when you're walking in
the woods, and when you're walking in the woods the time is to be present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Unless you want to go to the woods to plan. You could go to the woods
to plan.
could. Yes, you could.
it's much more likely your planning is going to be fruitful if it is preceded by a period of presence and
stillness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Any
mind activity is much more likely to be beneficial and to be creative if it's preceded by presence and
stillness. And then you apply the mind and say, "Okay, what do I have to do today?" And then you
make a list.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So if you're going to be in the future, do that as a concentrated event
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): or experience.
Page 7 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Say now I'm going to sit and plan.
And don't then
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Think about tomorrow.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Once
you've done that, then you know, "This is what I have to do," so that you're now continuously in the
next moment, you don't project yourself, you play mental movies about what you're going to say when
that situation arises. So you can, you trust in life that whatever it is that you need when the future
comes will be there. So that's the, as far as practical matters are concerned, the future is simply
something that you use, like I call it clock time. You make an appointment for tomorrow.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you deal with tomorrow, tomorrow.
So you don't continuously project yourself away from the now
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): to

some future, believing that it's more, going to be more important than the now. It's not.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because what you say on page 122, "Anybody who is one with what he
or she does is building the new earth."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's how you do it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Being
one with what you're doing means being total in what you do, so that the main focus of your attention
is not where you want to get to. You know where you want to get to.
the main focus of your attention is on the actual doing now. So this is what, the energy flows fully into
this. The energy doesn't, is not diverted from what you are doing now through mental dysfunction
because you're wanting to get there. Because then whatever you're doing will be stressful.
Page 8 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because whatever you give your 100 percent attention to is going to be
better anyway.
was a Zen master, he was watching somebody in a competition, archery, and a man was trying hard to
win this competition, but he couldn't make it and then somebody asked the Zen master, "What's he
doing wrong?" And the Zen master said, "His need to win drains him of power."
so his need to win in some future, he wants to have some future moment where he's going to be
fulfilled.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So his
attention is not totally in the now. So the now, where all power resides
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): this
power that resides in the now cannot flow then into what you are doing. The openness isn't there.
Because to have mastery in any endeavor, whatever it is, you need to be total in what you do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what athletes know, the great ones.
They, and then they, when they enter it they call it "the zone."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. There was this great article this week, as a matter of fact, those
who saw it on Tiger Woods in USA Today, saying that he's perhaps the greatest athlete of all times
because that's what he knows how to do is to focus and be 100 percent present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's just him and that ball.
Page 9 of 52
Absolutely, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And the golf course.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So another question that was on the message boards a lot. Last
week, when Kidada from California called and was saying, was on Skype, and she was saying that, as
a young person, she's thinking about the future and thinking about wanting to have a career and
husband and so forth. I think a lot of people felt unsatisfied by your response. I heard that and a lot of
people were like, "I feel the same way Kidada feels." A lot of people are wondering where the passion
goes, where the ambition goes and how passion and ambition, which is what I think Kidada was
saying
yes, okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): with this new awakening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause if we now just, we're just all so awakened and that we become
passive people?
The passion is much greater when you are totally focused on what you are doing now. There will be,
the passion will become stress. The more you are focused on where you want to get to, the more the
passion will degenerate into stress. You may still have high energy but it's, there's a lot of negative
energy that comes in. So if you want to remain truly in your power, then you need to be total, and that
applies to the smallest thing that you do during the day.

Because even great endeavors consist of small steps. Even the greatest thing. You are doing wonderful
work, but every day that you spend consists of small steps. You arrive in the studio, you get
Page 10 of 52
dressed, you get ready to speak on one sentence at a time. It all consists of, one needs to be present
as you are, that's where the power comes from every moment and not look to some future moment that
promises some kind of greater fulfillment. That is the delusion. It does not mean you don't have a plan.
You can have a plan, "I want to achieve to build up a business. I want to do this or that."
the main focus must be in the doing, and if the main focus is in the doing now, that's the passion is
there and the deep enjoyment is there and an intensity of energy.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): An intensity of energy?
people often
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Say that again what the Zen master said, that his desire to win....
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): His
desire to win drains him of power.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Desire to win drains him of power.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): His
need to win drains him of power.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Need to win drains him of power.
being present....
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're just focused on whatever is necessary in that moment.
moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm sure that struck a lot of people, that Zen master quote then.
Page 11 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you're so, you got to win, you got to make it, you got to succeed,
got to got to got to and that's draining energy from you. Instead, we should be focused on this moment,
this step and then the next step and then the next step.
right. Now, you may win, if you try very hard or very stressed, occasionally it happens that you do
win, but it's not really worth it because you begin more and more depleted. After a while, you lose the
joy of life. If you spend five years of stress and finally you achieve what you wanted, is that worth it?

Enjoyment is there. "Am I losing? Is there joy in what I'm doing? Is there an aliveness, an intensity?"
That's the question. People believe, sometimes, high energy in our civilization, when there's high
energy in what you do, often people believe there must be stress. They cannot imagine high energy in
what you to without stress. Because that's how we are conditioned because we are always conditioned
to look to the next thing. But there's a more powerful state of high energy, an intensity of energy.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I was going to say where the energy is intense and focused.
no stress at all.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. No stress at all. Well, let's go to our New Earth study group
watching our webcast at Borders on Michigan Avenue. Hello in Chicago. Hi, everybody. Hi again. All
right, Shereen has a question. Hello, Shereen.
SHEREEN: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
SHEREEN: We're thrilled to be here. My question is for you Eckhart. You say on page 126 that
constant alertness is required to not let the ego take it over. And I was wondering, do you, are you in
constant alertness yourself, and do you ever struggle staying alert?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I'm
usually present in the now. The intensity varies according to the situation. If I'm just, I'm sitting alone
at home, it's just a background of stillness, and there may be thoughts arising, I may be doing this or
that. So the, and then if a situation arises, the more challenging the situation is, the stronger the sense
of presence that arises. That's a strange thing. I realized that the first time when after this I underwent
this shift. I was actually in a cinema, and I was watching a film. It was a Japanese film about the end of
the world. And I saw all these things; everything was going up in flames and
Page 12 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is on the film?
film.
suddenly found that was becoming more and more peaceful and present inside. The intensity of
aliveness as if inside something was saying inside me, "There is no death." There is, but that's the
interpretation. Really, for the first time I realized when things go wrong outside, the present intensifies.
everything is fine, there's just a background of presence. And that's wonderful. So because then the
challenges that come into your life, two things can happen when a challenging situation or a
challenging person comes into your life. Either the challenge drags you into old, conditioned ego
reactions.
example an angry person provokes an angry reaction in you. So this means the other person or the
situation drags you to their level of consciousness or unconsciousness. That's one way, one thing that
can happen. The other possibility is that any challenge wakes you up more. So you become more
intensely present when there's a challenging situation. And look at a very simple situation, which is not
really challenging, but for some people it is. You're sitting in a traffic jam. Not moving, you have to
get somewhere, but it's not moving. So many people would go into negativity at that point. They get
stressed; they get upset. The body gets tense. So that situation then, you react in the old way. And
perhaps a few minutes ago you were at home very still and present and it felt good and you were
looking at the tree and the flowers. So you get in the car, and the moment the first challenge happens, it
can drag you down into unconsciousness.
there's another possibility. You can be alert and recognize that situation as the first challenge of the
day. Then you say, "Okay, yeah, I can either go into reaction or I can go into more presence." And
suddenly, you're in the same situation, nothing's moving. Fumes, cars. And suddenly you become
completely present in that situation.
Page 13 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): There's an exercise, Shereen, in the workbook that we have for this
chapter where we talk about being, there's two. The transparency. Can you describe that? Becoming
transparent.
When you react, when you react against a situation, whatever it is, something irritating. It could be
somebody screaming, children screaming, an irritating noise. Immediately when that happens, it's
almost as if you were a wall and whatever the irritations were hitting this wall inside you. And it hurt
because something inside you gets hit. Now, as a practice, what you can do is imagine yourself being
transparent. So what before was hitting this wall inside you and that was painful, that was the
resistance that, "This shouldn't be happening. That's painful." Now imagine yourself being transparent
and the irritating thing passes through you. You can do it. I mean, for example, one of the most
irritating noises is perhaps a drill that goes
break up the road [makes noises].
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Grrrrr.
And so practice with that, become transparent to that. Feel the noise passing through you, it's
wonderful. And suddenly in the very same situation that before would have provoked a negative
reaction in you, you actually become more present and more peaceful.
very thing that would have made you react, now puts, makes you more present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Makes you more present. Also you talk about the deep lake, the deep
lake effect. Would you describe that?
So the lake, if you're imagining a vast lake. The surface of the lake changes all the time according to
the weather, according to the wind. Sometimes it's rough; sometimes it's very still. But even when it's
rough, if you imagine you are the lake and whatever happens in your life, the external situations of
your life are the surface of the lake. External situations change continuously. Sometimes it's rough;
sometimes it's fine. It's very still. But no matter if they are rough, the surface, the depth of the lake
Page 14 of 52
remains always undisturbed and you are the pool, the lake in its depth. So your external life is the
surface of things, surface reality.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your ego.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ego
for the world of form. And included in the surface reality is even all your thoughts.

Because what we're talking about is the inner depth is deeper than your thoughts and your emotions.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And your presence is the bottom of the lake.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is the lake, is the full lake.
And it's wonderful when you begin to realize that your inner state is no longer dependent on and
determined by
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What's going on on the surface.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Got it.
that's incredible freedom, that's true freedom.
can arrive at that place even if you were in a prison cell. And I've had letters from prison. People have
written to me and said, "We are free. I am free. I have found that place where the inner state is no
longer dependent on what's happening outside." Of course, the prisoner would still prefer to be outside.
On that level, fine. But
Page 15 of 52
deep down there is freedom from external conditions.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you are connected to the beingness of yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The consciousness of yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you can use the word "being," you can use the word
"consciousness." You can use the world, a lot of people use the word "soul."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or "inner being."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Higher self." The word doesn't matter.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The word doesn't matter. Thank you Shereen and everybody at Borders.
SHEREEN: Thank you, thank you very much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Very alert. So let's get into this chapter. You say that we can
assume that the ego is at play "whenever we feel superior or inferior to anyone else." Now, I know this
is true. When you see the person who is the biggest jerk out there, you know, people who act with such
a sense of superiority and arrogance, I know that that is because they are really feeling inferior.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it's still hard to deal with.
Page 16 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But what surprised me is that you say that often people who are also shy
are also acting out of their egos. And you say, "Whenever you feel superior or inferior to anyone, that's
the ego in you." Why is that?
if you're shy, then what you fear is to be found wanting. But so you're not, you dare not
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the fear is that the attention may take the form of disapproval or
criticism.

You're afraid of that so because you're afraid of that, whatever the disapproval or the criticism would
represent an injury of your mentally made sense of self, which is the ego. So it would, the image that I
have of myself as the very capable person or whatever it is that I'm trying to uphold, if I, if I encounter
criticism, the ego immediately will be hurt. And so a shy person would not dare to say anything
because they're afraid of ego loss.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Afraid of ego loss. Got it.
so because sometimes that's mistaken for an egoless person.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it's not.
not. And deep down inside, the shy person or this person who is suffering from this sense of
inferiority, there's the desire, the unexpressed desire to be superior.
inside the person who acts superiorwho seems to have a big, confident egois always the hidden
fear that he might be inferior. And his whole acting out is to compensate for that hidden fear of being
inferior.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. "Behind every positive self-concept is the hidden fear of not
being good enough."
Page 17 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Behind every negative self-concept is the hidden desire of being the
greatest or better than others."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And where does self-esteem fit into that? What is real self-esteem?
What would true self-esteem look like?
first there is the ego self-esteem.

Which is really, even if you have high ego self-esteem, as we've just seen, there's always hidden fear
underneath it. It's always there to compensate for the fear you feel of not being good enough or perhaps
failing. So you need to play a role of being big to compensate for the fear of failure that's deep down.
But that's usually the world calls it, he has, he has, the world would say, "He or she has high self-
esteem." People who have big egos. But the world
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right

.
doesn't realize that that's not true self-esteem. True self-esteem goes much deeper. It's finding the
source of power and aliveness deep inside. We talked about the lake. Realizing that, within the depth
of your being, there is that continuous source of intense aliveness and power, which is the stillness out
of which everything comes. The potential, the unexpressed potential for all form is there for every
human being. You have to become still.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So true self-esteem is realizing that that sense of being, that presence is
there?

comes out of the stillness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That it comes out of the stillness, and that presence in me is the same as
the presence in all people.
Page 18 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you recognize that and act from that space within yourself,
that is when you have true self-esteem.
true self-esteem, and self-esteem then is not, no longer derived from the belief that you are better than
somebody else.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so you are not attached to the labels or the roles that you play. And
you speak about the many various roles that everybody has.
And then you're no longer devastated by criticism or get very angry when you're criticized as the ego
does. The ego is either totally devastated when you get, or it gets very angry when it gets criticized,
this self-image.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you know there's a role that most, you know, or, women in our
society and all societies play is that role of mother. Which is a very, which is more than just a role. I
mean, it's real. It's not just a role
.
So we need to differentiate between the function that you need to fulfill in this world for a while.

you have a child, your function is to be the mother and to fulfill the function of being the mother,
which, of course, is looking after the child. Sometimes set limits or the child is allowed to do and so
on. That's all fine. Now, if you become too identified with your function, then the function turns into a
role. And then you cannot let go of the role, and that gets stuck to you, and even when the child grows
up and becomes a teenager, you still behave as if your child were small, and you still try to control and
try to protect when it's no longer appropriate.

Because you're stuck with a role then. So sometimes, when children become adults, the adult children
are still treated by their parents, parents who are stuck in the role of parents.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause they can't let go of the role.
Page 19 of 52
So they believe unconsciously that they need to continue to protect and ultimately control what the
child does.
Because you don't parent the child the same at every age.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so they've lost sight of the function that they had as mother to be
guide and to direct and to
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): correct and to help and to protect.

And
And
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And they want to carry that in to the future
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because they're attached to the role.
it's not only when children grow up, even when the children are already still small
Page 20 of 52
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): if
you are completely identified with this role of mother, then also it can become obsessive. So you might
become too controlling, or overprotective. Certain functions become overemphasized. You go too far
in fulfilling these functions. So what was good initially is looking after the child, protecting the child,
can become too much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I got it. Tonight, actress Jenny McCarthy is joining us.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Via Skype. Hi, Jenny.
JENNY MCCARTHY: Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How are you? Do you know that when I was reading this book, Jenny,
when I was reading my book. Here it is. My book's all kind of torn up now, but when I was reading
this book on page 104, I wrote, when I read, "As you look at, listen to, touch, or help your child with
this or that, you are alert, still, completely present, not wanting anything other than that moment as it
is. In this way, you make room for Being. In that moment, if you're present, you're not a father or
mother. You are the alertness, the stillness. You are the Being behind the doing." I wrote "Jenny
McCarthy" because that reminded me so much of what you had said about your function as a mother.
JENNY MCCARTHY: Yes, absolutely. You know, I read this book when it first came out, and that
was one of my big wake-up calls. Realizing that when I was with Evan, all I needed to do was just be
with Evan. And our relationship bloomed like you wouldn't believe, the love connection was there. He
was getting fulfilled because he knew, even when Evan wasn't able to speak. This is when Evan still
wasn't able to use words. Energetically, he felt that I was with him, that I was being with him. And I'm
so grateful, Eckhart, that you taught me that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So did you have a question? Or do you
JENNY MCCARTHY: I do. I do have a question. Okay. It's long, so bear with me.
JENNY MCCARTHY: Bear with me. One very common emotion that I have personally experienced
and that I have seen in many mothers is this emotion called guilt. Mothers today experience a few
different forms of guilt and I'm going to explain three different versions where I'm sure moms listening
right now, one of them will say, "That's my guilt."
Page 21 of 52
JENNY MCCARTHY: The first one is the 9-to-5 working mom feels guilty for leaving the baby with
the nanny all day. The second one is the stay at home mom feels guilty for getting bored playing with
her, you know, her son or daughter all day long. And sometimes you can only play choo-choo so long
and you can't do it anymore, and you feel guilty for not wanting to do that. And the last one being, and
this one I can really connect to, the thousands of mothers I've met who have children with autism carry
a huge amount of guilt with them. That's hard for me to get out, sorry.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Take your time.
JENNY MCCARTHY: I haven't cried yet in one interview, so I'm sorry. But, a huge amount of guilt
that it's in some way their fault, our fault that our child became autistic. So my question is, can you
offer some insights as to how we can look at things differently from a different perspective on how to
alleviate this guilt that we carry as mothers?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nine-to-5 guilt, choo-choo guilt and feeling guilty because your child
has autism or whatever your child has and that you are somehow responsible. Thanks Jenny, this was
so well said.
JENNY MCCARTHY: Thank you.

Before I say anything, I read your book while it was still in manuscript form. You gave it to me, and I
was very impressed by what you did with your child, the courage that you had where other people
would have succumbed and fallen into negativity or self-pity. You were able to turn it all around and
make it into something very positive, at the same time helping many other people, not helping your
child, but helping many other people
JENNY MCCARTHY: Thank you, Eckhart.
and you still feel guilty. Of course, that's the structure. After all this wonderful work that you have
done with your son, it's amazing isn't it, that there are certain structures in the human mind that operate
no matter how much good you do. They carry, the structures carry on playing themselves out, and they
are part of the what I call not the content of the ego, but the structure of the ego. So if you, nobody
could have done a better job than you with your boy. In addition, helping many others writing that
book. And yet, you feel, it's not that you feel guilty, there's a certain structure in their thought
processes that produces the feeling of guilt. And the other two examples that you gave; there's the
mother that has a job 9 to 5. The child is with the nanny, and the mother feels guilty about that, cannot
accept that this is how it is and the other mother at home playing with the child.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Choo-choo.
Page 22 of 52
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Feels
guilty about not doing more in the world or what so. Whatever it is, if you don't tackle or recognize the
structure in your mind for what it is, then you will always believe that the answer to solving this
question lies in the realm of content. In other words, content is the situation. So if I change the
situation, perhaps I won't feel guilty anymore. This would be if you think that this so-called problem,
it's not a real problem; it's a mind-created problem. If you believe that this problem can be solved on an
external level by changing something that you do, it will not because no matter what situation you go
into, the guilt will come back. Because in this world, you are limited, you can't do everything. You
either do this or you do that. But you cannot be both at home and at work at the same time. So the
mind, no matter what situation you go into, will bring out the same structures. So unless you are very
alert and you recognize that these are egoic mind structures, nothing to do with content, then you
realize that what the ego, one of the jobs of the ego is to blame others. Another job of the ego is to
make yourself feel guilty. Both of these things strengthen your sense of identity. They are negative
senses of identity. And the ego loves to have a strong sense of identity, and no sense of identity is
stronger than the negative one, where you condemn yourself for something. And
JENNY MCCARTHY: Wow.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): so

and you can see from an objectively speaking, it doesn't make sense to feel guilty in your case and in
many other people's cases.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Because if you have to work 9 to 5 to provide for your child
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and make, you know, a safe home for your child and food on the table
for your child
are doing the best you can.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): you're doing the best you can.
your mind doesn't, your mind works according to its old conditioning. So recognize when those
thoughts come, recognize that these are not actual valid thoughts that are actually concerning a true
situation. They are thoughts generated by the ego. And if you can recognize them as thoughts
generated by the ego, structural, not content-based, then in the moment of recognition, they begin to
lose their power over you. They will try to come in. It's not that you can't do it just for once; they will
try to come in the next day.
Page 23 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you, Jenny, wrote that book. Obviously, I read that book too
because you were here and shared the book, you know, with our audience. You, you know, refused to
take no for an answer. You fought for Evan. You did the best you knew how to do, and when you
didn't know, you sought other answers to figure out the best to do. So there is
JENNY MCCARTHY: Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): a part of you, the part of you that is really you, right, Eckhart?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that knows that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): True? True, Jenny?
JENNY MCCARTHY: True, absolutely.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And that little crazy talk in your head is just that. Crazy talk in
your head.
a good expression.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. But crazy talk in your head.
JENNY MCCARTHY: It really, I just had a huge awakening moment when he said that within me. So
I get it, absolutely. That's a wow.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a wow. Thanks, Jenny.
JENNY MCCARTHY: That's a wow. Thank you both so much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Say hello to my palsy walsy, Jim.
JENNY MCCARTHY: I will. He sends his love to you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. He sent me flowers after he was on for Horton Hears A Who and
said
Page 24 of 52
JENNY MCCARTHY: I know. I made him.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, you made him? Okay. His note said, "From your palsy walsy."
Okay, thanks. Thanks a lot. Dionne is calling from Port of Spain, Trinidad. Dionne, what's your
question?
DIONNE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. It's nice talking to you. Thanks for having me on.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nice talking to you.
DIONNE: My question is, although I'm now aware of some of the rules that are played, it's still really
easy to slip back into them sometimes, and I'm at the stage where I recognize that I've been playing a
role after the moment has passed. But I'd like to know how do I recognize it in the moment before it
happens, especially in those unexpected moments?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): About playing a role did you say?
DIONNE: Yes, yes.
DIONNE: Yeah, yeah. Because sometimes I'm aware of a role, but I'm only aware after the moment
has passed and have slipped back into some of the roles that I recognize.
DIONNE: I'm just trying to figure out how do I stay in the moment and recognize the roles before it
happens so I don't slip back into the same old thing.

yes. This is a very common thing that happens to people as they grow in awareness. At first, the
awareness does not reach themany of the conditioned behavior patterns. The awareness at first, and
this applies to many, many peopleI've heard so many timespeople in whom the awareness begins
to grow, this dimension we call presence or awareness. At first, the awareness does not necessarily
flow into all parts of their lives. There are certain behavior patterns that remain as they are, but the
awareness comes in after they've happened. So in this case, in an interaction that you have with other
people, you play a certain conditioned role without knowing it, so you are the role. When it's over and
you go away from that situation, suddenly you realize, "Oh gee, I did it again. I played that role again."
Whatever the role is. And that is how awareness at first comes in, in many cases, after the event. And
Page 25 of 52
retrospectively, the presence or the awareness recognizes the old pattern after it's happened. And what
then tends to happen, and I believe this is going to happen to you because I've seen it in so many
people, the time gap between the event and the awareness gets shorter. So what then happens is the old
pattern operates still, you play the role, and immediately afterwards, you realize, "Oh, I've played it
again." But there was virtually no time gap anymore. Immediately afterwards you realize it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that means you're awakening, right?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You get closer and closer so the time gap is shorter and shorter.
next step, the next thing that happens is in the middle of playing a role, you suddenly realize, "Oh, I'm
playing that role again." So the awareness has come, and you're still doing it, but then you know that
you're doing itan enormous difference. So you're not just playing the role. There is the other
dimensioncomes in at the time of playing the role or whatever the behavior pattern may be, and you
realize, "I'm doing it again." And that's wonderful too. And the next step is, it's amazing, it's the same
pattern as I've observed in thousands of people. The next step is, just before you are about to enter into
some conditioned pattern like role-playing, the awareness is there, and you can feel the impulse inside
you of wanting to play the role.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can stop yourself.
you can then say, "I don't need to play that kind of role."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't need to play the role. Well, let's clarify what we mean by role-
playing. Thank you so much, Dionne from Port of Spain, Trinidad.
DIONNE: Thank you. Thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's clarify what we mean by roles because I think it's confusing to
some people who say, "Well, listen, I am a doctor, I am a teacher, I am a lawyer, I am a store clerk, I
am a"that. Those are labels. And what is the difference between the job functions that we have and
the so-calledand roles, you know? And the roles that we play.
Page 26 of 52
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I met
a woman, middle-aged, and she talked to me in a certain way. And I asked, are you a schoolteacher?
And she said, "Now, how did you know that I'm a schoolteacher?" [wags finger]
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She said that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): She
wasbecause she had already, she talks to people as if she were talking to the children at school.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So at

(unintelligible), she said, how did you know? She was pointing a finger.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, okay.
naughty boy, how did you know that?

course that's how I knew it because she had become completely identified with her function.
role took her over. She couldn't leave her function behind after work. Even inside her family, she
behaved like a teacher.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say when you adjust the way you interact based upon who you're
talking to; you're playing a role.
that, also.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So do we talk to everyone the same?
Most people, if theybut you need to have some power of self-observation, which is another word for
awareness.
Page 27 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, childrenwe talk to children differently.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Friends differently than we do a head of state.
or a so-called important person and a so-called not important person.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The janitor in a building different than you speak to your boss.
And this is very interesting to observe in oneself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yourself. Yeah.

Because you need to observe it in yourself, otherwise you won't know that you're doing it. And you
can only observe it in yourself if there's some awareness there that is outside of the role.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And is this why, when you go to a party or you're at an event and
you don't know people, the first thing they want to know isa friend of mine, Marlene, said to me,
who is taking our class every week, hello Marlene, that she was at a gathering recently and that she
was trying to practice the principles of A New Earth and that she was introducing herself around the
table. And she was doing that in such a way she didn't talk about what she had done or accomplished
or, you know, who she was married to or where she lived. And that, you know, one of the people at the
table said, "Well, we don't care about who you are, we want to know what you do. We want to know
what do you do?" And what I realized is people want to know that so they can determine your so-
called value.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And to see if you will be of value or
Perhaps that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or necessary
perhaps
Page 28 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): for them to play the role with you.
And harms the ego or whether you might be a threat to their ego, whether they can use you, or whether
they couldneed to be afraid of you, or whether they want to have further contact.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Whether you fit in their circle.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Fit in,
yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's all
these things. Then many judgments go through people's minds often when they meet somebody, and
they're automatic. You observe what
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what people mean by, "What do you do," really.
.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't it, for the most part?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They want to say, "What do you do? Let me place it in terms of how
valuable that's going to be to me."
Now, when you don't play roles anymore, you don't have to become strange, and then when you go to
parties when somebody asks you what do you do and you say...
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I am."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I am. I am that I am. That is all that I am." Yeah.
is the basic truth, but you don't need to say that when you go to a party.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't?
Page 29 of 52
can actually talk quite normally without being identified with what you say. If people asked me
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's the essence of what you're trying to say to us in this chapter.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is that, of course, there are roles that we are assigned or labels that we
use to identify ourself. What you're saying is, the problem is when you become completely identified
with it.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you think that is who you are.
And you behave and act as if it that were who you are. So you get trapped inside that conditioned
personality. And whatever you do, then it's the personality is acting out.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You mention in the book where you play the role of patient, and if you
go to a doctor who is playing the role of doctor, he often doesn't see you, the person.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because he's playing the role.
He has become so identified with his function that the function has taken him over and he has become
a role. And many patients can actually feel that when they go to a doctor, whether there's a human
being still there or whether the doctor has become a role.
so when the doctor has become a role, when you go to that doctor, you don't feel acknowledged
anymore in your beingness.
Page 30 of 52
feeland he might be very competent as a doctor.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know.
something vital is lacking in the interaction when you see a doctor. He might be the greatest expert in
his field, it still doesn't help. Something very vital is missing. And everybody
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you feel completelythat happened to me recently where you feel
completely dismissed and disconnected. Because heyou're thinking he's just trying to get me out of
here so he can get the next person in.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But if
he does that to you, you can imagine what he does to a normal person.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause usually people treat me pretty nice, anyway.
Dmitry is Skyping us from Moscow. Hello.
DMITRY: Hi.
DMITRY: Hello, hello. Hello, Oprah. Hello, Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. What time is it there? I'm always curious.
DMITRY: It's about 5 a.m. in the morning.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the morning? You're up early.
DMITRY: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. Thank you for joining us. Do you have your question?
Page 31 of 52
DMITRY: I'd like to first thank you very much for your job. It's unprecedented event when you spread
consciousness all around the world. So thank you very much, Eckhart, thank you very much, Oprah,
for selection for being there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thank you.
you.
DMITRY: My question is now I do some movement exercises, very Asian ones, and they bring me to
stillness. So I experience stillness when I do these movements, and I lose it when I come to my work.
Now I do some poses, breathings before I start my work, but when I'm provoked, I'm getting into the
power games, especially when I'm criticized. So can you recommend something in this? Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good. I like the way Dmitry breathed.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It was good. Yeah.
DMITRY: It's so-called panoramic breath when you breathe in all surroundings.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what would you recommend?
this isyou are able to access that dimension of presence when you are not disturbed by external
situations, when you are not being challenged, the ego is inactive at those times. And when you go into
ordinary work situations and so on, you begin to relate to people, and immediately the ego with its old
conditioning comes back and takes you over and you lose yourself in the roles you play and so on. So
onewhen do you knowbecause we answered a question earlier that talked about playing roles and
becoming aware of the role-playing afterwards, after the event, do you become aware at the end of the
day, or do you become aware in individual instances after, like, a few minutes after it's happened at
work? At what point does the awareness come in?
DMITRY: It depends. If the situation is minor, I'm aware, I guess five minutes after or maybe into the
situation. But when I'm provoked deeply or, for instance, when I'm deeply criticized by my boss, I can
be in this for a week. And only on weekends when I do the movements, change the tense body position
I am sort of relaxed form, I can manage tounwound, yes, it was again.
Page 32 of 52
Another very helpful thing you can do is not just confine your presence practice to those periods at
home, but bring in small, very brief moments of presence into your everyday life. For example
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): At work, you mean.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): At

work. No matter where you are, you may be sitting at a computer, talking on the phone, or whatever it
is, that'sI'll give you two or three examples. The phone rings, it wants to be answered. Let it ring two
more times than is necessary before you answer. If the phone rings, normally you would pick it up.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Pick it up, yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Let it
ring twice and be present while it rings. Allow it to ring but be there in your presence. Use it as a signal
to tell you, "Be present now." That's one way of where you bring a little bit of presence into an
ordinary work situation. Or you're at a computer, put a flower next to your computer and occasionally
look away from the screen. It doesn't take long, just 20 seconds is fine, 30 seconds, look at the flower
and feel its aliveness inside you. It helps you toanything natural can bring you back into presence
much more easily than things that are manmade. Inner body at work, when you arefind a moment,
turn away from your desk or whatever it is, and feel the aliveness. Do your breathing, but not the
whole thing, just for a few seconds. One conscious breath in and out is a meditation. You don't have to
wait for your medication until you get home; bring the meditation into the spaces into your daily life as
many spaces as possible. That's whatotherwise, the mind has such momentum, the egoic mind, that
it will drag you along and you will lose yourself in it. Bring it into small spaces.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Within your daily life.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Daily
life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. In addition to your panoramic breathing, Dmitry.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's beautiful.
then you will find that in the midst of situations
Page 33 of 52
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): the
awareness is more likely to be there. And with already you may have listened to what I said to a
previous question about becoming aware after, after falling back into old, conditioned behaviors, and
you will experience the same thing, especially if you practice bringing smallthese spaces of
awareness into everyday life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Into your daily life.
you will find that gradually presence will be strong enough even when your boss speaks to you and
criticizes you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even when he's on the third ring.
a gradual process where presence goes into every aspect of your life gradually. It permeates your
everybecause that's what is needed. Even if you were the greatest meditator, you could achieve
sublime states twice a day at home when you meditate, it wouldn't help you if presence does not
permeate every aspect of your life.
because, otherwise you'll be like the father who washe was doingin Buddhism, they have a meta
meditation; it's called "meditating on loving kindness." So you sit there and say, "I love all the people
in this house, I love all the people in this city, I love all the people"
DMITRY: Observations.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "All
the people in this house be at peace, all the people in this city be at peace, all the people in this country
be at peace." And then the daughter comes in and says, "Dad." And then the father says, "Leave me
alone, can't you see I'm doing loving kindness meditation?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Dmitry.
you.
Page 34 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It goes back to what you were saying earlier, "Can I sense my"what
you said on page 79, this is in last week's chapter on "Core of the Ego," "Can I sense my essential
Beingness, the I Am, in the background of my life at all times?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're saying to him.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "To be more accurate, can I sense the I Am that I Am at this moment?
Can I sense my essential identity as consciousness itself," even when my boss is yelling at me?
whenyes. And then perhaps precisely in moments of greatest challenge, there's a greater intensity of
presence from
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because those moments would be his most sacred moments, would they
not be?
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's how you know.
soit's when your greatest challenges become, instead of drawing you into unconscious reactions,
when your greatest challenges intensify your presence, then that's how it works, that's the miracle and
that's how the beauty of this works.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you again for Skyping us from Moscow. Thank you.
DMITRY: Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Dmitry, thank you. Thank you. Okay.
DMITRY: Eckhart, I'd like to tell that I'm very familiar with your voice because I have some
recordings of your talks so your voice already permeated me, and thank you very much for being in
presence into the life of this planet. Thank you.
you.
Page 35 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. I like all your books in the background there too, Dmitry,
that's very nice. So I want to look at some of the e-mail questions, which there's a question from Grace
in Pleasanton, California, that says, "Since I've been an owner of a dog I find myself so much more in
the present. My question is, why am I naturally so much more present with animals than I'm sometimes
dealing with people?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ah,
yes. Well, the animal does not provoke thought activity because the dog is not thinking. When the dog
looks at you, the dog is not thinking what kind of person you are, the dog is not judging you, there's
the dog is at a stage of consciousness prior to the arrival of thought. So the dog isand that state has
certain similarities with the state of presence, in which is the state of going beyond thinkingwhere
we are going. In both cases, if you are
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So in that way, the dogs are a little more enlightened than we are?

some ways, the dogs are more connected with being
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With being.

than we are; than normal humans are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Normal humans are.
so
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's where they are all the time.
And I sometimes call them dogs and cats, particularly, because that'spets that for millions of humans
are very important in their lives.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I call
them "guardians of being."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Guardians of being.
Page 36 of 52
Because for many people they fulfill that function. Theyfor many people who are so lost in their
minds, so much involved in their thought processes, the only moments they have when they are not
trapped in that, is when they are relating to their animal; their pet.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. YouI have to get to this quote. Well, I'll get to that in a
moment. You say that the role of the parent should not be to spare children from all suffering.
Why not?

Because nofirst of all, you can't. It would be futile to even attempt. Of course, you protect the child
as much as you can, but every human being has to go through a certain amount of suffering. You
cannot come into this planet and avoid suffering. Every
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's what being a human being is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is that there is athere's some discord.
that is how we grow. If there were a human being that could have avoided all suffering, that human
being would be totally superficial and totally identified with an external form of things because it's
suffering that drives you deeper, drives you within where you need to find.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): By suffering, do you mean not getting what we want?
that's one form of suffering, true.
are different forms of suffering. Many forms of suffering, of course, are generated by the ego itself.
These are ultimately unnecessary forms of suffering.
Page 37 of 52
they don'tthey are necessary for as long as you are unconscious.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And another word for suffering would be "challenges" or "difficulties,"
correct?

Challenges are
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you can't be a human being without being challenged?
That would beyou would miss the whole purpose for being here.

you need to see even your children will not escape their will sooner or later. And usually sooner than
later, they will encounter their form of suffering, whatever it is. You protect them as much as you can
but when you see certain things are inevitable, they may do things, unconscious behavior, they may
generate their own suffering; self-generated, or it may happen to them from the outside. But no matter
what, it will happen. And then rather than going into intense anguish, see this is human suffering. And
every humanyou had to go through your forms of suffering. In my case, for example, I hadmy
parents had very heavy pain-bodies. There was constant conflict at home. And that was my constant
suffering.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Pain-body; that's next week.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We'll
talk about that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. No, finish the sentence; I just wanted to say
Page 38 of 52
this, of course, not only applies to children, it also applies to other people that may be close to you and
going through their suffering. You do what you can to help them, whatever you can. The important
thing is that you don't go into anguish yourself because by going into anxiety and anguish yourself,
you're not helping them at all.

Because whatever state you are in transmits itself to others.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How does playing a role at work keep us from being powerful?
if you play a role at work, you always have a secondary motive in what you do because the ego is at
work, you're not totally focused on the task at hand because there is some self-interest there; you want
to protect yourself, you want to get credit for yourself, you want to perhaps eliminate other people
around you or perhaps you want to use other people for your own purposes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A lot of times this happens when people get promoted to supervisors.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, they were really good in whatever position they had, and
then they get promoted to supervisors, have a little more power
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): means they're not just now functioning at work for themselves, but
now they're over other people, and a little bit of power goes to their heads, and before you know it,
trouble.
absolutely right, and that's the ego. If you have a position of little power, then the ego is kind of there
in potential, it's latent as far as your work situation's concerned.

similar situation you have in certain Third World countries where often you find a revolution
overthrows the government and the people who initiated the revolution had the best intentions. They
wanteventually, they want to do away with corruption; they want the best for their country. The
Page 39 of 52
moment they get into power, the latent ego in them, although they had good intentions, comes up, and
they repeat the same dysfunction that they wanted to do away with.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Happens all the time.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. Shali lives in Stockholm. Shali, you were on earlier today, we
Skyped you on The Oprah Winfrey Show. Well, you've been up a long time. I hear you have a question
about raising your 3-year-old daughter. Go ahead.
SHALI: I do have a question about that. A lot of it I guess has been answered just by listening to
tonight's show. But the question about her is. how do you stay present when you're trying to discipline
your child, and she starts screaming and shouting? And she's only 3, so I can't really explain to her that
it's really your ego that's coming out. And I feel like she's learning these roles. I guess my question is,
you know, I want herI want to raise her as a more conscious human being, you know. I don't want
her to be awakened at the age of 35 like me. How do you raise a more conscious child, and how do you
stay more conscious when you're dealing with conflict? Because I don't want to set a negative pattern
for, you know, when she's 16 and she wants to borrow the car, for example.
yes. I would suggest that you pay, first of all, pay more attention to your inner state than to what is
happening to your daughter. Because I believe you experience perhaps your daughter causing you
feelings of anxiety sometimes.
SHARI: Yeah, right on, absolutely.
believe that. Now, that is a bitthat seems to be the case that your daughter, by going through certain
kinds of behavior, causes you feelings of anxiety, but ultimately that is not the case. You cause
yourself the feelings of anxiety. When your daughter refuses to eat, she's not making you anxious, only
you can do that. So it is vital what state of consciousness you are in, what emotional state you are in
when you are relating to your daughter. Because if you are often in a state of anxiety, you get into a
vicious circle. The anxiety that you believe was caused by your daughter's behavior, but is ultimately
caused by your reaction to your daughter's behavior. That anxiety then will affect her, and that is a
nervous energy field that will provoke further so-called bad behavior in her because children absorb.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I was going say, a 3-year-old is absorbing that and picking up that
energy more than even your language.
Page 40 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They're picking up the energy that you carry.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Yes.
So your first
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that is their language.
right.
so your first realization isyour first interest needs to be in any situation with your child, okay, there's
the external situation, there's what the child is doing or is not doing but should be doing, or screaming,
or whatever it is, or not eating, not wanting to go to bed, whatever children do. But your first interest
needs to be, "Okay, what's my inner stage right now? Am I accepting this moment no matter what form
it is? Am I saying that'sam I?" What I suggest is the little mantra that I recommend is to ask
yourself whether you can be there as the space for whatever your daughter does. "Can I be the space
for this?" This is a general thing that many people will find helpful no matter what situation you go
into in life, at work, at home, wherever. "The present moment, am I able to accept this moment as it is?
Or am I saying, 'It should be different, you should behave differently,?'" But she's not behaving
differently; she's behaving the way she's behaving right now. You need to accept that right now she's
screaming, if that's what she does. That is, "Can I be the space for that?" Then you see her screaming.
Anotherthis is related to the little exercise we had earlier where you felt yourself becoming
transparent to an irritating external situation so that you don't have a reactive barrier inside you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's hard to do though, when your child is screaming.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because your immediate instinct, I would think, is to stop the child from
screaming, to resist the screaming.
Yes.
Page 41 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To try to prevent more screaming.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the resistance of that, the angst and anxiety of that creates more
screaming.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): More
screaming.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause if you could just be calm enough to allow your calmness to then
calm the child.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's easier said than done, though.
That's your spiritual practice.
don't need any other spiritual practice for the next
SHARI: Cause [unintelligible].
for the next few years that is your main
is your main. It's far better than going to a monastery and meditate all day long. Much more effective
making that into your spiritual practice. And then you will see, as you go, you become more peaceful.
more accepting of the present moment. More being the space. Then that will transmit itself to the child
and affect the child. And the child will absorb your emanation, your energetic vibration of frequency,
Page 42 of 52
and the change will happen in that way rather than feeling that, "I need to change her." Change
happens when you change.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That is to prevent herbut that is to not allow her to do things
that are dangerous or to
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, he's not saying that, but he's saying about adjusting the way
you are beingcapital Bwith her.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Capital B. Thank you. Thank you so much, Shali.
SHARI: Thank you so much, and thank you so much for doing this Web seminar. I hope you do more.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well thank you, thank you so much.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a way of being present
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): for any situation. And what you were saying is we can apply it not
just to children, but to all situations.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Any
situation, and it's usually the case, the most in some people's lives, they have a variety of little
challenges.
there's other people who have one predominant difficulty in their lives.
Page 43 of 52
Whether it's another person, whether it's a health situation or whether it's a work situation or financial
problem, that one huge challenge in their lives. And usually one would consider the main, this huge
challenge in your life as your greatest enemy almost, the greatest burden. Or, as Christians would call
it, my cross
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To bear.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): to

bear.
this, it doesn'tthis can actually be turned around and you can make that very thing that is considered
your great
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your cross to bear.
can make that into your greatest help on the spiritual path.

Because it's precisely there that if you can bring acceptance to that and be the space for that situation,
that is usually calledwhat usually we call "bad" by the mind, but it is. You can't argue with it. "This
is the situation right now, can I be the space for that?" And that situation takes you into surrender and
into presence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that, you know, so many people, when they were first talking about
purchasing this book on the website, I saw a lot of messages from people saying, "I hope this, you
know, shows me my life purpose, I want to awaken to my life's purpose." And for a lot of people,
thatthey want that to be something grand. They want it to be, you know, saving starving children in
India and Africa. They want it to be some great description or something. But what you're saying is, is
that if we areallow ourselves to be fully present with whatever our chosen function is in life and
whatever difficulties might arise, that there is sacredness in the difficulty if we allow it to be.
Yes. And be fully present with whatever the situation is now.
Page 44 of 52
then go from there. Sobecause then your inner self changes when you're fully present with the
situation, you're no longer putting up internal resistance to life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even if there is that thing that you call, there's something that you call
"background happiness." There's something that happened, or needs to happen, or someone who did
something.
Background unhappiness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Background unhappiness. So there's something that happened, or need
tohe refers to that on page 114, everybody. "There's something that needs to happen in my life
before I can be at peace. Something happened in the past that should not have happened.
Something is happening now that should not be happening." How do we make peace with the
background unhappiness of our lives?
Yes. You recognize the background unhappiness as not content-based, but as structural. It's the
structure of the egoic mind to create that. We had the same when Jenny asked her question.

had the similar thing. The guilt feelings that she had was part of the background structure of the ego.
And no matter what situation, if you haven't tackled or recognized the structure of the ego in yourself
as certain thought forms that repeat themselves, no matter what situation you go into, they will come
out in some new form, but basically the same structure.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. I got it. So the secret to happiness, you say, and so many people
were writing about this on the Web
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The secret to happiness everybody, page 115, "There are three words
that convey the secret of the art of living, the secret of all successes and happiness: One with life.
Being one with life is being one with Now," you say. "You then realize that you don't live your life,
but life lives you. Life is the dancer, and you are the dance." I have to tell you, I love this book, but I
was, like, "Gee, I thought life was the dance and I was the dancer." And there are a lot of people on the
Web who are saying the same thing. Can you explain how life is the dancer and we are the dance?
Why aren't we the dancer?
Page 45 of 52
are not separate from life. So whatever any
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Life is the dancer.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Life is
dancing the dance of form, one could say. Every human being and everything that exists is part of the
dance of life. That which moves you, the very consciousness that animates your being, that animates
every cell of your body that produces thoughts too, the very consciousness that you are is the one
universal, the one life.
that permeates everything. And so the entire universe is permeated by that consciousness, by life,
which is another word for "God."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): God.
see God as entity that is in a particular place somewhere, but as the essence, the intelligence, the
animating life essence behind all life forms. It's the eternal.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The totality.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's the totality. You see God. You're saying that God is, your idea of
God is the totality of the essence of all life forms.
And, ultimately, you are not separate from that. It's the egoic mind that says, "my life." The moment
you say, "my life," you've already separated yourself from life. It's a thought. Never thought to say,
"This is my life," and then you think, "Oh, I can lose my life. I am not separate from life because I am
life." It's only through the structure of language that you create the illusion of separation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I see that.
dog still knows from a primordial level the animal. The tree knows that it is one with life, so it doesn't
have this fear of death, and it doesn't see itself as separate from the rest of the universe.
Page 46 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let me ask you the big question. You have no fear of death?
no. The ego has dissolved, and so only the ego fears death. I know there is no death.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know there is no death. Okay, tell me how.
a little thing at the end of this chapter.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. You say, "The incontrovertible proof of immortality." I read that
and I went "Okay, well, I read that. I still"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I've
donea little thing I did there, usually when people talk about immortality, they use certain arguments
to perhaps from physics. They say the energy getsnever is destroyed, energy can only become
transformed.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, transformed.
vital energy that is your life, because energy cannot be destroyed, must survive in some form. That's
often the argument for the survival of their life. There is no death, only the form dissolves.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, that's right.
one way you can approach it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But I
thought I'll doand look at the structure of this sentence of language that says "my life" or "I have a
life." Because most people believe that they have a life. And they also believe that they can lose their
life. Now, if you look at that sentence and say, "I can lose my life, then I am separate from life."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, "There is no such thing as 'my life,'" you say at the end of this
chapter, page 128.

Because I am life. I am not separate from life; I am an expression of the one life, a temporary
Page 47 of 52
expression in this form of the one timeless and formless life. So I don't have a life because I am life,
expressing itself as this form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So what happens when you, two weeks ago, talked about your
mother and father lying in the casket, and you realized that the life force or formlessness ofthat they
were lying in the casket and there were these bodies, but they were not there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They were not there. So we are not our bodies.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We do know that. Everybody who's reading this book knows we're not
our bodies. We do get that.
And that'sonce you can actually sense that, not just as ait's not just a belief, you can also see that
you're not your body if you just approach it logically and see that when there's a dead body, then that
being is not there anymore. There's only the flesh and the bones.
when the being isn't there anymore, the flesh and bones very quickly dissolve.
the animating presence isn't there anymore, all the atoms and molecules separate.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Go

their own way.

Because the animating presence is not there anymore.
Page 48 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So continuing here. So, "There's no such thing as 'my life,' and I
don't have a life. I am life. I and life are one. It cannot be otherwise. So how could I lose my life? How
could I lose something that I don't have in the first place? How can I lose something that I Am? It is
impossible." So what is happening here is I just got it, hello, hello, bing bing bing. I got it. We are
confusing the I am life force with our bodies.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're confusing that.
That's right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So when this dies and becomes the shell and dissipates and the atoms go
wherever they go back into the ground, ashes to ashes, dust to dust, we are confusing that which is the
physical form, the human, we're confusing that with the being.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And they are separate.
So another way, if you don't like the word "life," you can say "the universe." People believe that, "I'm
here, and there's the rest of the universe."
come into this universe. They don't know from where.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "I've
come into this universe." It would be more appropriate to feel that you have come out of this universe
because you are this universe experiencing itself very briefly.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As a human.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As a

human.
Page 49 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As a human. I got that.
so it wants to do that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oooh, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that.
wonderful when you realize there's more to you than the person. You are the universe.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Expressing itself.
and experiencing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As a human.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As a

human.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Called "Eckhart."
For little while.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For little while.
then it goes through other experiences.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then where do we go, Eckhart? Could you tell us that?
let's see what happens. What happens. Otherwise, you take the fun out of it. You have toif you knew
the rest of your life already, the fun would be taken out of it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, okay. All right. Well, before we say goodbye, I know there's lots we
did not get to in this chapter. We could've spent two or three weeks on this one chapter, but what
would you say is the essence of this chapter?
essence of this chapter?
Page 50 of 52
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, the role-playing chapter. What I said in the beginning that we're
humans and beings. And in this body trying to live through the two.
It's balancing the human and the being so that you can be function in this world of form where you
have to do things and fulfill your function, at the same time not lose yourself in that. Be rooted in the
depth of being so that you're not lost in form. So there's a depth to you and rootedness in that stillness,
that aliveness. And then from there you function out here. And there's always then peace in the
background.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Peace in the background.

matter what's happening out there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And most particularly, not to be attached to, defined by the roles that we
play in life and realize what they are: just roles.
And relinquish the role when it's not required anymore. When your children grow up, you don't need to
be the mother or father. You don't need to play that role anymore.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): See, so many people think that is who they are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so when their children grow up, they don't know who they are
anymore.
It can be a crisis. Or people retire.
had identified with
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And they were their job.
and then, "Who am I?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you were talking about in Japan, where it used to be you kept
your job for life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you were sharing with us the last time about a man who committed
suicide.

What'sthere have been many cases of people in Japan who lost their jobs and committed suicide
because they were so identified with their companyit was their sense of self.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, fascinating. I want to thank you all of you around the world for
making this athis a really a remarkable experience, for making it possible. Eckhart and I will be here
again next Monday at 8 p.m. Tell all your friends, share the book with them, if they say, "I don't get it,"
that's okay. That's really okay. That's okay. They'll have the book and maybe pick it up a year from
now, two years from now, 10 years from now. This fourth class will be available on demand starting
tomorrow just like all the other classes for free here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download a
podcast of any of our classes, you can also do that tomorrow at Oprah.com and at iTunes. Your
homework assignment for this week is to update your workbook. Next week, it's the chapter many of
you have been waiting for, Chapter 5, "The Pain-Body." "The Pain-Body." If you feel burdened by
your past, begin to learn how to lighten that load. That's going to be really very exciting. Now, many of
you have been asking about our New Earth theme music. The song is called, "We Are One Earth," and
it was produced by Harpo Sounds, our in-house music label. Beginning tomorrow, it will be available
as a free download on iTunes and Oprah.com, so enjoy it, those of you who've asked us for it. This was
fun. This was fun. So let's just wait to see what happens. Let's just wait to see what happens. Thank
you so much. See you in class next week. Bye, everybody.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome to A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose, a
worldwide Web event.
ANNOUNCER: A New Earth is sponsored, in part, by Nature Made Liquid Softgel vitamins, the
newest way to fuel your greatness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi everybody, welcome again to class number 5 in our webcast series
about Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth. We're at the halfway mark, and I'd like to thank all of you who are
committed to this work and make time every week to share this space with us and to give this to
yourself. As of today, we've hit nearly 11 million streams and downloads of this series. That's really
uplifting. So together, I believe that we are beginning to create powerful changes in our lives as
individuals and then putting that out into the world. Before we get started, I wanted to share something
with all of you. Our friend Elizabeth Lesser of the Omega Institute sent me a poem that I'd like to share
with everybody. She sent it to me this week because I, several weeks ago, was talking about being
under my trees and sensing the trees. And so she e-mailed me this poem and said, "Here's a poem to be
with your trees." It's called "Lost" by David Wagoner and will be on our website for you to get later.
So listen to this, Eckhart. It says, "Stand still. The trees ahead and bushes beside you / Are not lost.
Wherever you are is called Here, / and you must treat it as a powerful stranger, / Must ask permission
to know it and be known. / The forest breathes. Listen. It answers, / I have made this place around
you. / If you leave it, you may come back again, saying, Here. / No two trees are the same to Raven. /
No two branches are the same to Wren. / If what a tree or a bush does is lost on you, / You are surely
lost. Stand still. The forest knows / Where you are. You must let it find you." Don't you love that?
beautiful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. So that's my point, to lead us into silence. Would you like to lead
us into silence?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eckhart has a cold this week, everybody. I told him he's sounding very
sexy.
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when we go into silence, another way of putting it is to say we go into the present moment more
deeply. So let's approach it from that angle today and say, "Let's take our attention right now into this
present moment"no matter what it contains on the surface, no matter what you're perceiving or what
you're feeling. You bring a full acceptance to this moment as it is, no matter what form it takes. And
that aligns you with now and takes you into stillness. So that's all weI'lldo right now, and so we're
still just for a little while, sensing what the present moment is beyond the forms of the present
moment, sensing what the essence of the present moment is because the essence of the present moment
is life itself. So it's sensing that life that is the essence of now, which is more than what you see in the
now and that you're attached to in the now. It's deeper than that. You can only sense it. The external
senses cannot perceive it. So let's do this now and just be with the present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. I'm actually finding it easier. The first time we did this, I was,
like, "Oh boy, we're going to be quiet for 10 seconds. Now I think we're going, like, 40, 50 seconds.
And another strange thing is when you actually enter the present moment, it's a holy place no matter
where you are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No matter where you are.
this connects with the poem you read.
bring your attention to it fully, every place you are is holy. So there's a sacredness to life that you
become aware of once you take your attention into the present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What I'm finding, too, reading this book and then working with you
every week, is that everything starts to be sacred. Everything starts to be. You can find the sacred in
the most ordinary of things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that there is a calmness and a stillness to almost everything if you
can get quiet enough yourself to feel it.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That's what's happening to me.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As so many other people are experiencing whatever you're experiencing,
how this, the reading of his book, the awakening for you is taking on whatever form it does in your life,
that's what I'm seeing for myself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. But there'severything's magical.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You never have to be bored, ever.
No. That'sand the need for artificial stimulus goals for people continuously need to, whenever they
get home, they need to switch something on to some kind of entertainment. You can still enjoy
entertainment, but you're not dependent anymore.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): On that to fill you up.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, tonight we're discussing Chapter 5. So glad we're in "The Pain-
Body." So I wanted to just start with my idea of an overview of this chapter. You say that in this
chapter that the human mind seems to be hooked on my, me and my story, constant mind chatter that
keeps negative emotions alive and personalizes everything. You say at the beginning of this chapter
on page 129 I'm on, everybodythat the greatest part of most people's thinking is "involuntary,
automatic, and repetitive. It is no more than a kind of mental static and fulfills no real purpose. Strictly
speaking, you don't think: Thinking happens to you. The statement 'I think' implies volition," you say.
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"It implies that you have a say in the matter, that there's a voice involved on your part." But, really,
you say, "'I think' is just a false statement as 'I digest' or 'I circulate my blood."' Digestion happens,
circulation happens, thinking happens." Yeah.
becoming aware that thinking happens to you all the time. The key is becoming aware of it. It's
happening to everybody until the awareness occurs, then you are identified with that voice in the head,
with its repetitive thought patterns. And that is what most people are trapped in, and it makes up their
superficial personality with all their, the continuous repetitive judgment, and likes, and dislikes, and
prejudices and whatever makes up the content of their egoic mind. So people are trapped in that and
derive a sense of self from that, which is ultimately insubstantial, conditioned by the past and not who
they are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. And you say also in Chapter 5, "The Pain-Body," you
show how this addiction to being, these thoughts in our head, this addiction to these thoughts to our
head, to this negativity, is at the root of humanity's problems. On page [138] you write, "We are a
species that has lost its way."
And we are lost, I could say. Also, we are species lost; we are lost in thought. We've lost ourselves in
the mind. So looking for some kind of identity in the movement of thinking without ever really finding
it. So most important step in any point of awakening is to realize that there is a voice in the head that
doesn't stop speaking. When you realize, "Oh there's" and then you begin to realize what kinds of
things the voice is saying: repetitive judgments and so on, negative thoughts about yourself, about
other people, about situations you are in. Especially all these repetitive negative thoughts that many
people are trapped with. You become aware of that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, and you, then you become aware that it's really just the story that
you've told yourself about yourself.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's all it is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right, that it has no power.
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the
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Past has no power over you.

power. The power comes in with your awareness that there is a voice.
the awareness is not part of it. And that is part of being, becoming present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. One of my favorite quotes of this chapter is, "Nothing," on page
141, "Nothing ever happened in the past that can prevent you from being present now; and if the past
cannot prevent you from being present now, what power does it have?"
Yes. Cause many people are so attached to the past that they carry a burden, like carrying a huge sack
on your back, a burden. You're identified with that. And they believe that they're unable to be present
because the past prevents them from being present. But it can't do that. You can step out of the stream
of thinking. Take your attention into present, and immediately the past no longer has that power over
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because nothing ever happened in the past that could prevent you from
being present now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say that the core of all this is the pain-body. On page 141, we read
that, "Any negative emotion that is not fully faced and seen for what it is in the moment it arises does
not completely dissolve. The energy field of old but still very much alive emotion that lives in
almost every human being is the pain-body." And Chapter 5 introduces us to the pain-body. Amazing.
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You know, when I read this, I thought about my childhood. Now, I've shared my childhood with lots
of people, and as a child, I was raised by my grandmother for the first six years. And my grandmother
used to whip me often. Like, I used to get beatings on a regular basis. And it was really a part of our
culture, and I know many of you were raised this way too, that not only would you get beaten for
almost, you know, for doing nothing, for, you broke a glass or you, you know, spoke out of turn or
whatever the adults deemed was inappropriate for you in that moment. But I would get beaten, and
then I was never allowed to have any emotion about it. And I remember feelingmany times my
grandmother would whip me with switches. She would braid the switches together, and I'd get a
whipping, and then in the middle of whipping me, she'd say, "Stop your crying. Stop your crying."
And I'd get whipped until I would stopped crying. And then afterward she would say, "You better
wipe that pout off of your face. You better put a smile on your face. So you'd have to now act as
though the beating that you just had didn't happen. And when I read thisthat "any negative emotion
that is not fully faced and seen for what it is in the moment it arises does not completely dissolve. It
leaves behind a remnant of pain"I realized that that pain of not being able to express the motion of
just being able to be angry. I mean, now I see kids today, when their parents say something and they
don't like it, the kids can say, "I don't like you," or "That upset me," or you know, God forbid, "I hate
you," which, you know, in my culture was never allowed. You had to suppress that, whatever you're
feeling, if you're beaten, "Wipe that pout off of your face. Wipe your tears. Stop crying right now."
And so that would be a huge pain-body that I would end up carrying.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Especially as a child.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you say children especially carry it.
Yes. So did you find then that as you grew up that there was a lot of unexpressed negative emotion in
you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I didn't. It wasn't unexpressed. It was repressed ability toit's what
caused me to have the disease to please for so long. A desire to please everybody because the ability to
say in the moment, "This upsets me," or "This really bothers me," or "What you're doing I don't like,"
was not something I felt I could do for the longest time. Yeah.
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Yes. So the, all these negative remnants of negative emotions, they become, they accumulate in the
body. And then
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I ate mine.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
then together they form what I call, because, now, we need to realize that any emotion that you have is
a form of energy that's acceptable, I think, to most people.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Just
as every thought you have is a form of energy.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Every
thought is energy, so there's nothing spooky about that. So when we say, when I say that the pain-
body can be considered almost an entity in its own right that lives in you, some people find that's a
little spooky, but all that I'm trying to say is here that it's an energy form. Entity is another word for it.
So an energy form lives in you that you may not be aware of all the time because some of the time it is
dormant, and it's only active for a certain percentage of the time. So first realization is that there is
something in me that seeks unhappiness, that seeks unpleasant experiences, that seeks more negativity
because it feeds on those things. Those things, negative thoughts, will feed to the pain-body.
That is one of the favorite ways pain-body to feed is on your own thinking. So this is very important
for people to realize, to observe within themselves that periodically in many people, an addiction to
negativity arises. And if you can recognize that as it arises, then you're no longer totally at the mercy
of it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Because the awareness dissipates it. Yes. Yes.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so back at this point, though. Whenever there is negativity in your
life that you never fully dealt with, that negativitythe energy of that negativityhas to go
someplace. And you're saying where it goes is inside us.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And for me, everybody knows I've struggled with my weight for years,
for me. That's the form that it takes. For a lot of other people, it makes them, you know, outwardly,
you know, angry or negative toward other people.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it has to take some form. For some people it makes them sick,
makes them ill.
And a very frequent manifestation of itperhaps the most frequent manifestation of the pain-body
is in intimate relationships where, periodically, partners have to go through their drama. They have to
re-enact drama every few weeks. So, in some cases, every few days they go through intense emotional
negativity. And usually the pain-body awakens first in one, in either the man or the woman first. And
when the pain-body awakens, it wants some kind of reaction, negative emotional reaction.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's seeking that from the other person.

Because it feeds on it. So many people have realized when I've spoken about it, they realize, "Oh yes,
this is happening in our relationship." That periodically the need, the pain-body arises, and it then will
attempt to push the partner's buttons, as they're called in some form of psychotherapy, they say.
Pushing the person's buttons means the pain-body knows exactly what buttons to push in your
partner, buttons that will certainly bring a negative reaction.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, is the pain-body ultimately this feeling of not being good enough?
Is the pain-body there because of a feeling of not being worthy, of not knowing its sense of presence or
consciousness? Is that why it's a pain-body?
it's the emotional aspect of the ego. So, really, pain-body is part of the ego, and it's a very unhappy
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entity. But because its very existence consists of this unhappy vibration, it does not want an end to its
unhappiness because an end to its unhappiness is the end to the pain-body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Got it. Linda is Skyping us from her den. Hello.
LINDA: Hi.
LINDA: How are you, Oprah?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is that a yellow den you have there? Yellow?
LINDA: Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, it's gorgeous.
LINDA: Oh, thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In Silver Spring, Maryland, she has a question about the pain-body in
her sister.
LINDA: I do. And thank you, Oprah, so much for this. I first encountered your book, Mr. Tolle, in
2005, and have read it at least four times. And so when Oprah picked it, I was so excited. You write on
page148 that the pain-bodies love intimate relationships.
LINDA: And families because that is where they get most of their food. And that really resonated for
me. I had a huge aha! moment because I have a sister who has always interacted with everyone in the
family in a very dramatic way, and that I always considered her to be a drama queen who would rather
have a problem than solve a problem. But after reading this chapter, it helped me so much understand
more about her and what was going on and why she was interacting with us the way that she is. My
question is now that I've seen that, of course I wanted to call her and have her read the book, and, but,
you've already talked about how sometimes that's not necessarily the best way to approach people.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Right. Right.
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LINDA: But how? What is the way? How can I really reconnect the family? She has separated from
our family, she's separated from her children from us, and we have no relationship at all. And it's really
tragic. And I want to do something to help bring us back together and don't know what to do.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So at

the moment you have no contact with her at all?
LINDA: None. She has totally withdrawn everything. I do send her e-mails every month or so just to
check in. Sometimes she responds, but very terse and cold; most times, not.
the
LINDA: [unintelligible] I'm sorry.

wait on, I hope an opportunity will arise for you to get together at some point so you can continue
to invite her, if there's an event at home or whatever, and then just be open. And, but when she does
come, it's very important for you to, not to buy into her drama. I don't know whether this happened in
the past, whether she used to draw other family members into her drama. That's usually the tendency.
LINDA: Yes.

now when you meet her again, then you will realize, of course, you will be in a different state of
consciousness because you will see that what she is suffering from is the disease of the pain-body. And
that is not part of who she actually is in truth. So you can be there as a very compassionate presence,
and when the drama arises again, as it will, because her pain-body will be very active again when she
meets you or any family member, when it happens again, it is very unlikely that you will be, you will
find yourself forced to react to the pain-body because you will be present. So you can simply
recognize the pain-body in her without the need, as that was there in the past, the need to react to it,
and therefore buy into her drama and feed her drama. And that will be a very strange experience for
hersomebody who simply accepts her the way she is. And if accusations come at you, whatever she
does, "you did this" or whatever, whatever form the drama takes
LINDA: You sound like you know her.

know the pain-body. They're all the same, basically. So then you can, you can simply accept that she's
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suffering from this and simply be there as a compassionate presence without reacting. Allow her to be
in her pain-body. And that means that the drama cannot sustain itself for very long if only one part,
one person plays the drama. It needs two. So you're not feeding her pain-body anymore. And then see
what happens. She may be confused. I've experienced that quite a few times when people came up to
me with heavy pain-bodies.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a story that you tell in this chapter about the friend who comes to
your house, and she has all the papers and she's complaining, Linda.
LINDA: Oh yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And she doesn't know what to do, and she lays out all the papers and
she's complaining and complaining and complaining, and Eckhart basically says nothing but just listens
and is the presence there for her.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And finally she picks up her papers confused and just goes home and
the next day says, "What did you do to me?"
yes.
LINDA: Yeah.
don't underestimate the pain-body's ability to draw out some, to make you unconscious again, to push
some kind of button, and you will find yourself reacting again. Because pain-bodies are very cunning,
very clever. And they know exactly what will make you unconscious and what will make you react.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You speak of it like it's a creature that's like an alien force inside of us.
Yeah.
LINDA: Yeah.
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that's how I see it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really. Really. But you see that, Linda, that being, that this is, this then
becomes your sacred spiritual journey. This is a part of your spiritual journey to not be drawn into the
drama.
LINDA: Well, I, it's so interesting you put it that way, Oprah, because that's what I've kind of come to
the conclusion that this is part of my awakening.
LINDA: You know, my role in my family is to kind of be the one to help her get out of this.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And not by judging and not by telling her to.
LINDA: Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But by being that which you, you know, want, wish to emulate.
LINDA: Yeah. And that's the hard part, is not
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that's hard.
LINDA: Not judging because I guess that's the part of the pain-body that she activates in me.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause your pain-body wants to say, "Who do you think you are?"
LINDA: Exactly. Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know, I've been there.
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of course, when the pain-body takes over a person, the whole personality becomes transformed, and
sometimes people are shocked when they marry somebody or they start living with somebody and this
lovely man or woman that they loved so much, one morning, suddenly, he or she turns into a little
monster. Total energy shift in them to a complete change of energy like it's truly as if they were
possessed by a completely different, very negative personality. And that comes as a shock often to
people when they start living together.
again, it doesn't mean that necessarily that you chose the wrong person to live with, it just means for
the first time you experienced that person's pain-body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The pain-body showed up. And, also, what you, what we were talking
about in the last chapter, you were playing a role up until then.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You were playing the role: "I am in love with you."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And, often, love, you say, is about your own possessiveness.
so the roles are easy to play as long as you're not living together, then you can sustain the roles. But
when you start living together, very soon, the roles cannot be played anymore.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And, also, that's why, I was thinking with the pain-bodies, what
happens on a lot of holidays, Linda, you've seen this in families, everybody comes together, and you
have all those pain-bodies in a room.
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yes.
LINDA: Clashing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Clashing and reacting to one another and all living in the past, about the
past.

yes. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because that's what all the, that's what the coming together for families
is about, is

Thanksgiving and Christmas Day are the best day for the pain-bodies because people
LINDA: Yeah.

everywhere.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really.
often, the families go through the same thing year after year.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? Thank you, Linda, for bringing that up.
LINDA: Thank you so much.
LINDA: And I will listen to the rest of the class. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you for bringing that up for us.
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Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and often, yeah, the reason why all, you have all these pain-
bodies clashing, Thanksgiving, on the major holidays they come together, and people have an image in
their mindthe Currier and Ives, the painting of what they want the Thanksgiving dinner to beand
instead it becomes something different because everybody's bringing their past.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Living that moment through their past.
yes. Amazing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So how do we change that this Thanksgiving?
the, it just takes one person to be present and one person not to participate in this. So when next event
happens, family gathering, whatever it is, then you will see the usual comments will be made.
usual reactions will happen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Can you believe he did...? Can you?" Yeah.
yes. Or you visit your parents, and your parents don't fully approve of you, and then they say, "Well,
you remember 10 years ago I told you you should have done that. You would be better off now if you
had done that."
again, immediately, if you're not present, pain-body will arise, and it will become defensive. Anger will
arise. So
Page 15 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Then you're in it. You're drawn into the drama.
So it requires great alertness not to be drawn in.

because the, when, don't underestimate the pain-body's ability to draw in. Sometimes even very
present people can still be drawn in.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And you were saying that it happens in intimate situations, in
family situations more often than not becauseI would suppose it's becauseout in the world
everybody's trying to be, at least, on their best behavior.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A lot of people who are taking this class, you know, are working people
who see it in their jobs every day with people. Yeah.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Every day. I love on page 134 when you say, "Although the body is
very intelligent, it cannot tell the difference between an actual situation and a thought. It reacts to every
thought as if it were a reality. It doesn't know it's just a thought. To the body, a worrisome, fearful
thought means 'I'm in danger,' and it responds accordingly, even though you may be lying in a warm
and comfortable bed at night. The heart beats faster, muscles contract, breathing becomes rapid. There
is a buildup of energy, but since the danger is only a mental fiction, the energy has no outlet. The
rest of the energy turns toxic, interferes with the harmonious functioning of the body."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's what you said weeks ago about worry.
Page 16 of 51

see in one's self when worry arises, what we call worry is simply repetitive negative thought patterns.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And your body doesn't know the difference. And so all of
that energy is inside your body, and that's what makes people sick.
yes. So it's very important to clear up your mind so that you stop the continuous negativity of the
egoic self-talk, as we call it. So recognize it, and then step out of that stream of thinking. Use any
device you can. I recommend device number one, to step out of the stream of negative thinking, come
into the present moment, take one or two conscious breaths. You've stepped out of the stream of
thinking. Or feel the inner body, feel the aliveness in your arms, your hands, your legs. Put your
attention there.
have stepped out of the stream of thinking. Or look at something and bring your full consciousness to
the act of perception. For example, a tree or a flower, anything natural is best. Look at anything
natural. Give it your full attention that takes you out of the stream of thinking. Or any natural sound, a
bird, the wind.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To bring you back, really.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bring
you, or bring you back to the present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bring you back to the present moment.
are all little ways in which you can step out of the stream of repetitive thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the story on page 137, the duck with the human mind, love that
story. You talk about how the human mind creates me and a my story that keeps negative emotions
alive and personalizes everything, and it's ultimately led our entire species to this, to a precipice. So tell
us the duck story.
Page 17 of 51
I was
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What lessons it has for all of us as humans.
writing The Power of Now, and writing about accumulated emotions. And then I was taking a break and
went into the park and sat on a bench by a pond, and I saw two ducks approaching on the pond, and
suddenly, maybe one duck or, one duck got close, too close to the other. Suddenly they started getting
into a fight.

lasted for about 30 seconds, and then they both separated, swam off in opposite directions. They were
still agitated, both of them, and then both ducks kind of lifted themselves up on the water and
vigorously flapped their wings a few times. They almost stood up on the water, and going [makes
noises]. And then suddenly they were totally peaceful again and swam off.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They were doing cleansing breath. Dmitry did from Russia last week.

Cleansing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cleansing breath.
realized at that moment I had actually been writing about this, and the ducks were showing me how to,
how they let go of what otherwise would have become accumulated negativity in the body, and so their
instinctive natural intelligence takes over.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is to, think it off.
then I realized they all do it.
Page 18 of 51
the ducks after a fight do that. And immediately that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like clearing their wings.

Clearing, the energy gets dissipated.
they are totally peaceful afterwards. And then, of course, they don't have the human mind, which
repeats the story of, "What this duck did to me and what I'm going to do to this duck next time," or
"I'm never going to get close to her anymore." Whatever the story is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How dare you come over to my side of the pond again.
yes. And then talk to other ducks about what the other, that duck did to you.
all the story-making because the story-making, that still goes on in the human mind, keeps the old
emotion alive.

you relive it again. The negativity is relived. The body believes it's still happening.

Because the body believes in what your mind is thinking.
Page 19 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because "although the body is intelligent, it cannot tell the difference
between the actual situation and the thought."
So whatever thoughts you're holding, that your body believes that is your reality.
the corresponding emotions will arise, and the corresponding physical states of contraction will be
there.

this is howthat was the duck's lesson, so I put it into the book.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. I mean, and we see so many people, I know I have friends
who have been through divorce, and they live and still, you know, hating their ex-spouse and talking
about their ex-spouse and what their ex-spouse did to them, and, you know, years after the spouse is
gone. Yeah. Yeah.
And so that keeps it alive as if it were still happening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As if it were still happening.
there's an addictive quality.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's in your mind.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's in
the mind.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's in your mind.
Page 20 of 51
it's addictive, there's an addictive quality to that.
need to see it in yourself to see that, is still the case for some of the people who are listening to us.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So it's like the monks, tell the monk story. I like the monk story; the
two monks.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the one monk picks up the girl on the road.
that's the story of two monks on a pilgrimage, and they come across, in a village, they come across a
young 17-year-old girl with a long kimono trying to cross a very muddy road, but she's not daring to
step into the mud. So one monk picks her up, carries her across the road through the mud, puts her
down. And so the monks walk on in silence for another four or five hours, just practicing noble silence.
And then, after four or five hours, they're getting close to their destination, one monk says to the monk
who had picked up the girl, "Oh, you know, you shouldn't have done that because we monks are not
supposed to even to touch women. So you really, you shouldn't have picked up that girl. You're not
supposed to do that." And so the other monk says, "Oh, are you still carrying that girl? I put her down
hours ago." So the other monk was still carrying the girl, the event in his head.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Four hours later.
for four hours he was walking with this burden.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Right.
that shows the reluctance of the human mind to let go of the past.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. So how many of us reading this chapter are not carrying things
from four hours ago, but carrying things from four years and 40 years ago?
Page 21 of 51
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Who still holding onto what was done to them. Yeah.
yes. That's a dreadful burden. It's like carrying a useless weight around with you. And some people
carry it from all their lives, and they even derive some identity from that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, right. I had to learn years ago to let go of what had happened to
me as a child because what I realized, you know, my grandmother, the people who took care of me did
the best they knew how to do at the time. And if they had known better they would have done better.
and that is always the case. Whatever humans have done to you, it's always they didn't know any
better because they could only act according to their level of consciousness. Nobody can act beyond
their level of consciousness. So you cannot expect your parents, if you believe they did something that
was wrong, you cannot expect your parents to have acted beyond a level of consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's all they knew.
Jesus on the cross said it all when he says, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do," which
means they are unconscious. So when you realize that, you'll naturally forgive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what Jesus meant.
If he have lived now he probably would've said, "They are unconscious. They don't know."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Well Ros is on the phone from Sydney, Australia, and has a
question about the pain-body and grief. Hello, Ros?
ROS: Hi, Oprah. Hi Eckhart. Can I start by saying thank you both so much for helping to make my life
feel lighter and less stressful. That's amazing. And for taking the time to answer all our questions. But
in regard to the pain-body, I'd like to clarify, how do we honor the memory of our loved ones who have
died and that we shed tears for and not add to our pain-body? I'm trying to work out, are we adding to
our pain-body, or is this the type of sorrow from state of being?
Page 22 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You mean when you, the ability to grieve or not?
ROS: Yeah, well, the best way I can describe it is I lost my dad six years ago, and most of the time I
think of him and I have a smile on my face. But sometimes the tears flow for what I think is no
apparent reason. Intellectually, I know crying won't bring him back and I can't change the past, but the
tears just come. So am I adding to my pain-body by doing that? I feel I'm honoring my father's
memory, but I'm sad at the time. So is that a negative emotion or is that something deeper down inside
that is a natural thing and it's a part of my being?

There's a natural mourning, of course, that happens when a loved one passes away. With some people,
that also can turn into pain-body, and for example that would be the case if, is an excessive or
exaggerated amount of sadness or depression. Some people, after a loved one dies, go through years of
debilitating depression or they develop even extreme anger. That is also quite frequent that people
develop anger when a loved one dies. And those are instances when the pain-body becomes activated
through the death of a loved one. But that does not seem to be the case with you. So to allow mourning
to happen, when it happens, can actually be a beautiful thing. Your mind, observe what your mind is
doing and what kind of thoughts your mind is generating when you go through these periods of sadness
or crying. Maybe your mind is not saying much at all. Maybe there's just emotion. And that can be
quite beautiful, simply to allow this emotion of sadness, which is natural, after all, when somebody has
passed away or when you remember a loved one. Allow this emotional sadness to be there, and you
may actually find that underneath the sadness, there's still some peace. When you allow the emotion of
mourning to be there, then you realize that underneath the seemingly negative emotion, there's still a
deeper peace. I found that when my parents passed away a year-and-a-half ago, both of them within a
few months, the sadness came, tears came periodically, and yet, through the acceptance of the emotion,
there was an underlying peace that was deeper, even than the sadness. And so, and that comes with the
acceptance of the emotion. And that's important for you. So I don't believe that in your case this is the
pain-body. But I would suggest that you observe or perhaps you can tell me now what kind of
thoughts your mind produces when you go through these periods of sadness or weeping. What does
your mind say?
ROS: Well, usually at the end I end up smiling again. It's just that I wonder whether the tears were a
negative thing, or now, I don't suppose tears are a negative thing. But there are just times when I
suppose it's that sense of loss that comes with it, which I know is, in a way, is adding pain to your life,
but it's something you just, now I don't know, how do you explain, the void you feel inside when you
lose someone. Admittedly, I'm not getting depressed about it, thank God, but I just wondered whether,
Page 23 of 51
you know, logically I was adding pain to my life or whether it's just is something that if you can't stay
detached and observe, you realize it's just part of who you are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think it is a part of who we are, and I recently just lost a loved one
who happened to be a four-legged animal, my beloved little Sophie, I lost.
ROS: Sophie died?
ROS: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And, you know, unless you have an animal who's a member of
your family, a lot of people don't understand, but she was a member of my, she was as close to me as
anybody has ever been in my life. And I will have to say that I miss her little body and I miss the, as I
know you do with your loved one, you miss, I miss the physicality of her because she slept with me
every single night, came to work with me every single day, has been at every event for the past 13
years. So I miss her physical body, but I actually feel closer to her, to the spirit of her, to the soul of
her. I feel that the density of the body has allowed the spirit of her to be with me in a way that I never
could really fully appreciate or absorb. So I actually feel closer to her. I feel the love that she was, in a
way, that I did'nt even feel when she was alive. Yeah.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did you sense that with your parents too?
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's the peace you're talking about.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And actually, she died on the second night that we were doing this, on
March the 10th. And I went home in the middle of the day, she died early in the morning. I cried, you
know, all afternoon, I came here and allowed myself to be, to accept it, to go to that place where, all
right, she's gone.
Page 24 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She's gone. I'm not going to say, "Oh, why is she gone? Oh." All right,
she's gone.
and that's the acceptance. The acceptance
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And a peace comes with that. Yeah.
Because the void is the word, because a void is left when the form that was there, the body that was
there suddenly is no longer.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, that's the void you feel.
that's the void, now, the void, when it's resisted, and it is resisted especially by the ego, the ego hates
it, the ego doesn't want the void to be there, but when you can accept that now there is the void instead
of the body, then something else shines through that void, which is formless.

where the form once was, the formless can now shine through.
that's the beauty, then that's the grace that is hiding behind death or whatever, death of whatever kind.
So there's always that. You have to look for that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I see that. I see that. Do you see that, Ros?
ROS: Yeah, that's inspirational. [unintelligible] makes me feel better now. Thank you.
Page 25 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what happens is, what happens is, Ros, if we spend our timeI
always say when somebody you love dies, you now have an angel you know, and you can call the
angel formless, or consciousness, or being, or whatever, but what happens is so many people are just
caught up in the grief of it and the loss of it and resisting and wanting it to be the way it was.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Trying to hold onto the way it was.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Instead of accepting what is, and they don't allow the grace of the
formless to come through.
right. And the grace cannot come through. That's right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I hope you got that too, Ros.
ROS: Yeah, thank you. That was, that was lovely. I really appreciate it.
ROS: Okay, God bless you both.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): God bless you.

Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love when you say that sometimes understanding the science, for me,
sometimes understanding the science behind these concepts, as you're talking about, makes it easier.
And you say on page 146, "All things are vibrating energy fields in ceaseless motion. The chair you sit
on, the book you are holding appear solid and motionless only because that's how our senses perceive
their vibrational frequency, that is to say, the increased movement of the molecules." And so we're all
Page 26 of 51
vibrating at different frequencies, and the vibrational frequency of the pain-body resonates with that of
negative thoughts.
Negative thoughts or, and other negative emotions coming from other people.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then I love that you say this on page 152, you write on page 152, I
think this is great here. "If you were not familiar with our contemporary civilization, if you had come
here from another age or another planet, one of the things that would amaze you is that millions of
people love and pay money to watch humans kill and inflict pain on each other and call it
'entertainment.'" When I read it, I thought, yeah, if you're from another planet, you'd think, "What is
that?" So what is that that people love that? I mean, the most violent movies, particularly this year for
Academy Awards, most of the movies were violent movies, destructive, you know. All those pain-
bodies up there on the screen. And what is it about a lot of the public that enjoys that?
it's the, if it's, in some cases, violence may actually helpful to see because it shows the human madness.
If it shows the wider context in which violence happens, if it shows the psychological dysfunction
behind violence, then it can be helpful. But most of these movies are, contain violence that is actually
meant to feed the pain-body. And it is the pain-body in the viewers who enjoy those films that enjoys
the violence. But it's not actually the people themselves who pay money to see these movies, it's the
pain-body in them that feeds on the violence that it watches. And the people who produce these
movies probably
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Their pain-bodies are writing them.
pain-bodies write them, the pain-bodies write the movies, the pain-bodies produce them, and the pain-
bodies watch them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, this comes from a screenwriter, Lana, who's in her study in
Copenhagen? And has a question.
LANA: Copenhagen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Copenhagen. Hello, Lana from Copenhagen.
LANA: Hi Oprah. Hi Eckhart.
Page 27 of 51
LANA: Eckhart, I also have a cold, so I hope I sound as sexy as you do. So yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I like your flowers on the wall, may I say? I like your art. Is that your,
did you take those pictures yourself?
LANA: Oh no
.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, okay.
LANA: I bought it from somebody.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, okay, great.
LANA: Yeah. But, I'm a screenwriter, I'm also a producer, and after reading this chapter it just floored
me on so many levels. I write pieces that involve scenes that may have violence, it may have a death, it
may have rape. But I try not to be gratuitous, but after reading this chapter, I wasn't quite sure how to
be sure. And one particular experience that I had really kind of put me in a tailspin about how to create
content, how to create media projects going forward after reading this book. I had a few friends over for
dinner, Danish friends of mine, and I've learned so many from the Danish people, they're wonderful,
wonderful people. And at the time there was in the news at the beginning of this year, a lot of what
they call second generation kids were burning cars here in Denmark. And a friend of mine made the
comment to me, "Well, I don't understand how people can burn their own neighborhoods." And that hit
me like a ton of bricks. And although I was too young to remember the riots after Martin Luther King
died, I remember that comment being spoken by Americans. So here I am in Denmark and kind of
hearing the same type of conversation. And I felt like my first response was, "I've got to do a
documentary on this." And so I started making the phone calls to do whatever I needed to do to talk to
traditional Danes and also, second generation Danish people. But then I read the chapter, and I
wondered whether or not my pain-body as an African-American was now entering into this situation,
and you know, creating something that may kind of negatively affect the pain-body of another group of
people. So I questioned whether or not I wanted to do this documentary.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what is your question? What is your question to us?
LANA: My question is, in this situation that I just described, the pain-body that led me to come up
for the idea for this documentary, I think it comes from my experience of being an African-American.
Page 28 of 51
And that I want to bring people together, I want to kind of not allow a situation that's not necessary to
just go unchecked. And I feel like media can do that. A documentary can open up that dialogue. But I'm
wondering if my pain-body, since it created this idea for a documentary, is this something that will
help both sides, or am I just speaking to pain-bodies, to other pain-bodies?
I don't believe necessarily that your pain-body came up with the idea of making this documentary
about the violence that's happening in Denmark. And I believe that you will probably show the wider
context in which this violence happens and the root causes of this violence, not only historical but
perhaps also psychological. And if all these things are included in the film, then to show violence can
actually fulfill a useful purpose. That's why I mentioned in the book that some of the most powerful
anti-war films were war films because those films showed the reality of war, not some glamorized
version of war for the pain-body to feed on. So if you show reality and the underlying causes and the
wider context, then those films are not going to feed the pain-body because they will help people
become more conscious and perhaps not prematurely judge the people who are carrying out these acts
of vandalism or whatever it is, to see perhaps what lies behind it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. Thank you Lana, thank you so much.
LANA: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think it's interesting, though, on page, what Lana's talking about, what
you talk about on page 159, that as there are individual pain-bodies that each of us carries because of
whatever negativity happened in our lives and we didn't completely deal with that at the moment, that
there is also a collective pain-body that nations carry and races carry. And you say, "The collective
racial pain-body is pronounced in Jewish people who suffered persecution over many centuries. Not
surprisingly, it's strong as well in Native Americans, whose numbers were decimated, whose culture all
but destroyed by the European settlers. In black Americans too, for whom the collective pain- body is
pronounced. Their ancestors violently uprooted, beaten into submission, and sold into slavery. The
foundation of American economic prosperity rested on the labor of four to five million black slaves. In
fact, the suffering inflicted on Native and Black Americans has not remained confined to those two
races, but has become part of the collective American pain-body. It is always the case that both victim
and perpetrator suffer the consequences of any acts of violence, oppression, or brutality. For what you
do to others, you do to yourself." I think that there is not an understanding, and actually, Senator
Obama in his speech a couple of weeks ago was trying to speak to this. This collective pain-body that
America holds. And I think a lot of Americans, number one, don't know it exists and want to deny that
it does exist because they say, "I didn't have anything to do with slavery," or "I didn't have anything to
do with the Native Americans." Correct?
Page 29 of 51
that's right. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And to not to recognize it is what? Is to be in denial of what is the truth.
And then it continues to be there without you knowing it.

that's, that's where
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause the recognition of it is the beginning of being able to change it,
right?
that's right. And I believe since you mentioned Senator Obama, there was this controversy about the
pastor who was making certain remarks. I believe that the pastor who has probably helped many,
many people over many years, occasionally, when he speaks, as far as I can tell, he gets taken over by
the pain-body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): By the pain-body.
then the pain-body speaks through him. And it's understandable and I think beneath, Obama
understands that, although he may not use the term, or be familiar with the term, "pain-body," but he
understands the wider context for those remarks and he realizes that it arises out of the collective pain.
So, and once you see that these things arise out of the collective pain, you can see them in a much
wider perspective, and you don't personalize what this person is saying. It's not personal anymore.
He's expressing collective pain.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You also talk about this when it comes to women. Pretty revolutionary
on page 155. You say, "The suppression of the feminine principle especially over the past two
thousand years has enabled the ego to gain absolute supremacy in the collective human psyche.
Although women have egos, of course the female form is less rigidly encapsulated than the male, and
has greater openness and sensitivity toward other life-forms. If the balance between a male and
Page 30 of 51
female energies," I found this so fascinating, "had not been destroyed on our planet," you say, "the
ego's growth would have been greatly curtailed. With many people becoming more conscious, the
ego is losing its hold on the human mind. Because the ego was never as deeply rooted in women, it's
losing its hold on women more quickly than on men."
yes. And
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. It's, you know what, reading this as a female living in the world
today, able to make choices, and be my own person, and express myself, I had forgotten about the
years and years of torture and suppression and, you know, killing of women were the most natural
things because you liked animals, because you were a midwife, because you were a woman who wanted
to have a voice.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tortured, killed.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hundreds of millions of women.
And it's the, what I'm saying is the arising ego
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that happened because of the ego in the male.
yes. So it's not the male as such, it was the growing ego
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Rising ego.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): in

the male that had to, that saw the feminine principle and the feminine energy as a threat because it
could not fully establish itself in that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You believe we would've had a "new earth" a lot sooner if there had been
not the suppression of the female.
Page 31 of 51
probably, yes. But the shift is happening now, and the interesting thing is that there are more women
changing, going through the shift in consciousness than men. So men are going through, also, but there
are, for example, Elizabeth Lesser mentioned at her, at the Omega Institute, about 70, 75 percent of the
people who come there for inner work, consciousness, transformation and so on are women. So women
are more open now to the change in consciousness that is happening than men. I'm not saying it's not
happening to men also, but there's a greater openness
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, we have a few out there. We love it. Yeah. Audrey in Campbell,
California, one of our e-mails says, "I have 20 pounds to lose. As a child my father and brother called
me 'big girl' and 'big fat cow.'" That's not good. Could this be why, Audrey, that's not good at all.
"Could this be why I have such difficulty losing the weight? I've been hearing these words in my head
for years and years, and I can't let the words go. Help."
So, of course, these words have become lodged in your mind, and they have taken up residence in your
mind, and now you can't get rid of them. So they areagain, thoughts are energy formations and
thoughts that get lodged in your mind, sometimes they start in childhood when parents tell you
something negative. For example, some parents tell their children, "You are stupid." It's a stupid thing
to say.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. It's a stupid thing to say that kids are stupid. Yeah.
if told that repeatedly, this thought becomes lodged in their minds. And it's a, a thought can, if you're
not, if you don't bring presence to it now, you won't be able to dislodge it. So the first thing is to
realize that what has happened to you is that something that you were told years ago repeatedly is
now, has now become a thought that refuses to leave. It's an energy. You're possessed, so to speak,
temporarily, hopefully, by a thought. Some of you may have seen a film called The Number 23 with
Jim Carrey last year, and that's a man who becomes obsessed with the idea of the number 23. And he
sees it, suddenly he sees everywhere significance in the number 23. And that's an example of how one
thought can take possession of your entire mind. And then through this one thought that takes
possession of your entire mind, you interpret the whole universe, the whole of reality. This is how
dangerous it can be, if you are not careful, how one thought can take you over. So realize, the
questioner here needs to realize that is an old thought and realize it's no more than a thought, it is not
the truth. It's an old record that has been playing itself over the years.
Page 32 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Over and over in your head. "Big fat cow, big fat cow, big fat cow."
No more than an old
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's just a tape.

more than a tape.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): [unintelligible]

when you hear it again, when you hear that in your mind, you realize, there's the old tape again.

loses its power because it's no more than that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. There's an old tape for the past and the past has no power
over the present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're right. I love also when you say that thinking is no more than a
tiny aspect of the totality of consciousness, the totality of who you are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I had an awakening moment with that thought because we all think we
are, up until reading this book, I think so many of us, I was one of those people, thinking that we were
our thoughts.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then to read that thinking, not only are we not our thoughts, we are
the awareness of our thoughts. But that thinking is only no more than a tiny aspect of the totality of
consciousness, the totality of who you are.
Page 33 of 51
And the awareness, of course, compared to thinking, the awareness is vast. It's limitless and has infinite
potential for anything creative to come into your life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's where all your creative comes from.
not through thinking. Thinking can become a secondary tool in manifesting something, but not the
creative. Inside the creative realization, the creative idea does not come through the movement of
thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. Think about that, everybody. That when you have a creative, an,
inspiration does not come through your thoughts.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It comes through your being.
And so the space of awareness
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Space of awareness.
to the extent to which you are creative in your life depends on how much access you have in yourself
to that space of awareness, of presence. And it's sometimes enough for brief moments to have access to
that, and for some people, that's enough to lead a creative life.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But,
of course, we want to be more than that, not just have brief access, but to make it the very foundation
of your life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like when Quincy Jones was doing "We Are the World" tape and he
brought together all of those artists and he left the door open. First, they had a sign outside the door
Page 34 of 51
that said, "Check your egos at the door." And then they left the door open. He said, "We wanted to
leave room for God to walk into the room." Have, leave enough space for God to walk into the room.
Yes. Cause that's
Yes. So you need to, leaving the space.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Leaving the space.

Leaving the space inside yourself.
also, if you want change in your life, some people don't know, there will be chapters and we'll talk
about life purpose and so on, but the realization of what it is, for example, what it is that you are
meant to do in your life also comes from that inner space. Are you able to allow the space within?
Become still, and then whatever it is that you need to know will arise from that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Come through that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Will come through that space.
it may come as a thought, but then it will be an inspired thought.

Without the space, without the stillness, without accessing that dimension, thinking cannot be inspired.
There is no inspired thinking. The inspiration comes from the realm that is deeper than thought.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. And you're never going to think your way to a purpose.
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And you're not going to worry your way out of a problem.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not going to worry your way out of a problem.
impossible because worry means to manufacture more problems.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The same thing. You're just continuing the same thought over and over.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. You need a different kind of consciousness. Wasn't it Einstein that
said that? The same kind of consciousness
don't remember whether it was Einstein or Jung, but the, he said to the, a problem cannot be solved on
the same level of consciousness that gave rise to the problem.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That created it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have an e-mail from Judy in Columbia, South Carolina. "Could you
talk a bit about alcohol and drug abuse in the pain-body? Is this an attempt at escape from the pain-
body; alcohol and drug abuse?
often it is. And I mention that in the book. It's an escape of not wanting to feel the pain anymore. In
some people, the pain-body is active almost all the time, and that is dreadful way to live. And those
people in whom the pain-body is active almost all the time, often they will seek some kind of escape
from it because they can't live with that pain anymore. The pain-body loves it, but it makes your life
more and more miserable. So, but there is also a good chance and maybe that brings us to the, what
connects us with the, what I said in the book, if people who have a heavy pain-body, their chance of
awakening is also quite great because when life becomes unbearable because you're creating so much
pain continuously for yourself, your desire to awaken, to finally get out of this misery is much greater
than a normal person's desire to awaken. In other words, you could say when you're having a relatively
pleasant dream, you don't mind so much dreaming on. But when your dream turns into a nightmare,
then you really want to awaken from that, and you can't stand it. And that was the case with me. I had
a very, very heavy pain-body that drove me almost, very close to suicide until I, the realization came,
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"I cannot live with myself any longer." And that thought was the breakthrough where the separation
happened from consciousness that I am and the ego, and the pain-body that I had been identified with
as the unhappy little me.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Were you really actually going to kill yourself? Did you have a plan to
kill yourself?
had my first plans to kill myself, I already had at the age of 9 and 10.
So I had worked it all out, but somehow I didn't quite have the courage yet to do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause the pain-body was so heavy even at 9 and 10?

Already then it was quite heavy. Then it subsided a little bit, and then it came back again very strongly
in my 20s.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. And what was it? What was it that caused you to feelyou felt
depressed, you felt unworthy, you felt what?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It was
partly living in almost continuous conflict in the home environment between my parents, who were
always fighting. There was very little peace at home. I was very sensitive, so it was very hard for me
to even be there at home.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As you say in the book, for children who watch their parents fight, it's
almost unbearable.
And that, of course, contributes to their, a child's growing pain-bodies. So my pain-body grew very
quickly and, but if this had not been the case, I wouldn't ever have awakened.
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would have been in a relatively pleasant dream.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. If you had had a nice, happy childhood, you might not be
sitting here teaching with us tonight.

Certainly not. No, no. So retrospectively, one is grateful for one's suffering because eventually
suffering will wake you up.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You said, when I read earlier on page 141 about "any negative emotion
that's not fully faced and seen for what it is in the moment it arises does not completely dissolve. It
leaves behind a remnant of pain." So when we are faced with negative emotions on a daily basis, we
should embrace them, we should go into them rather than resist them.
Accept whatever emotion.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Accept it.

Accept because it's part of accepting the present moment because if a certain negative emotion is part
of what's happening in the present moment, what can you do? It's already happening, so you
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Take it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Take
it. (unintelligible) "Oh, there it is. I can feel that anger. I can feel the sadness. I can feel it." Be the space
for it. So accept that it is there. The acceptance of the present moment, no matter what form it takes,
externally or internally, whatever form it takes, externally means whatever situation arises right
now, it always is as it is at this moment. You might as well say yes to it. Internally means whatever
emotion arises at this moment it is as it is, you might as well say yes to it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I know next week we're going to be talking about breaking free of
the pain-body, but just for now, if every time you can see it show itself and recognize it for what it is,
"There it is, there's my pain-body again. There it is again," that the awareness of it begins to dissolve
it, correct?
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yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Let's go to our New Earth study group watching our webcast.
Hey everybody at Borders on Michigan. Hi, are you enjoying the class tonight?
CROWD: Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Interesting. All the pain-bodies have gathered together at Borders. I hear
Courtney has a question.
COURTNEY: Yes, yes, I have a question.
COURTNEY: I think a lot, so what I'm curious to know, you know, when I'm not in a relationship, I
obsess that I'm going to be alone. And when I'm in a relationship, I obsess about my career or money or
anything, and I think a lot of people my age obsess thisyou know, money, career, finding a
relationship. What you say in the book, Eckhart, makes sense but what, I guess I'm having trouble with
is taking that and actually putting it, you know, changing my life, you know, kind of daily, I guess.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love the "Makes sense, butwhat you say makes sense, but...' Go
ahead.
COURTNEY: Well, it does make sense, but then I just don't know, I guess, I guess I'm having trouble
putting that into my daily life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, actualize it.
COURTNEY: How do I not obsess or thinking about these things all the time and try and stay in the
present?
when you say "obsess," of course you're talking about certain thoughts that go through your head.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, over and over and over.
COURTNEY: Right, over and over and over.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So are
you able sometimes to, while these thoughts go through your head, to recognize the futility of these
thoughts? Are you sometimes able to be there as the presence in the background, or see, for example,
just after they happened, for the, let's see, for example, realize, "For the past 20 minutes I've been
obsessing about this or that. I'm having thoughts about a certain situation that's not here now." And
that's part, of course, of the structure of the egoic mind. It loves to do that. Are you sometimes already
there as the presence or not? Are you always totally identified with the
COURTNEY: No, sometimes I am. And in the hindsight I can go back and realize what I've done. But
it's in the moment when I'm doing this and I, and my mind just won't stop, you know, it just keeps
going and going, and I keep thinking about things, that it's hard to stop, I think.
COURTNEY: And I kind of realize what I will realize eventually.
Now, something applies that we talked about the other week when we are talking about worry. Worry
is another type of that kind of thinking, what you call obsessing. These thoughts, the way I put it two
weeks ago was these thoughts pretend to be important and necessary. These thoughts want to draw in
all your conscious attention. It's almost as if every thought were saying, "Give me your attention, this
is very important, you must think about this, think, think."
COURTNEY: Right.

these, the thoughts have the ability, they have a certain momentum behind them. This is the
momentum of the mind. And so it's not easy to become free of that. But the first freedom is in realizing
their futility in the moment they happen. And to realize that it is, they fulfill no useful purpose except
to make your life miserable.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Because what has the obsessing gotten you? What does it do for
you?
COURTNEY: Absolutely nothing. Worry, more worry. Yeah. It's just kind of an idea how to be, how
to just
Page 40 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And, also, it takes energy away from your being. It takes energy away
from your being able to be fully present with whatever it is you're doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can see that, right?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see that.
COURTNEY: Oh yeah, yeah.
COURTNEY: It's just at the time sometimes it's not so.

rather than trying to get rid of those thoughtsbecause what you resist persists.
try to get rid of those thoughts, that will be hard. But if you see they are futile and they are
meaningless and they are no more than part of the structure of the conditioned egoic mind, because if
you change your situation, you will obsess about something else, you've experienced that already. So if
you're in a relationship, you have, then have some other thing to obsess about. If there's no
relationship, you can obsess about the lack of relationship.
COURTNEY: Yup.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yup.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If

you're, or if you're making money, you can obsess about perhaps losing it, perhaps the financial market
will collapse.
Page 41 of 51
COURTNEY: Exactly.
or if you have no money, then you obsess about how to make money. So, see the futility of all this
movement of thought in the moment it happens and realize it actually takes away your power. It's like
a little parasite. Egoic thought patterns are almost like a parasitic entity that lives in you, and it sucks
up all your conscious attention.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got that, right Courtney?
COURTNEY: Oh yeah. It makes sense now, it's just when I'm going through it, I can't stop.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, the thing to do is all of this doesn't, happening, you know,
awakening doesn't happen all at once.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The whole process is you have to catch yourself doing it more and more
often. You start slowly, and more and more often you catch yourself and pretty soonor lateryou'll
findyeah.
yes. Or another thing that might be helpful is when the mind is not overly active, just normal moments,
occasionally choose to take your attention away from thinking. We mentioned it earlier. And bring
your attention to the present moment. Either use the device of feeling the inner body, conscious breath,
sense perceptions, consciousness, alert sense perceptions. So choosing to be present rather than to be
thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what that does is you begin to train yourself. You begin to train
yourself to be present with yourself.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's about present moment training.
Page 42 of 51
Training. Or, and you grow, and then presence grows in you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, it does.
you have to invite it in.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Invite
it in when the mind is not totally mad.
then when the mind does become, when these periods come when it gets totally mad, then it's more
likely that there will still be a presence there in the background.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Still can take a breath.
COURTNEY: Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm getting better at it. I've gotten better in the past five weeks. And you
will too, Courtney.
COURTNEY: Thank you. Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thanks, everybody, at Borders, thank you all. Okay,
somebody asked earlier, there was an e-mail where somebody wanted to know, and I didn't get to it,
wanted to know whether or not that pain-body allows artists and writers and creative people to be
more creative, the pain-body.
are, especially in modern art and modern writing, there are some artists who express the pain-body in
their work. So when you read their work or when you see their visual art, you can see, "Wow, there's a
Page 43 of 51
lot of pain in there." And perhaps that is how they free themselves, to some extent, of the pain-body
because they externalize it and make it into an object out there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You can take that suffering and turn it into something else.
Now, whether this will be, whether this is really helpful to many humans, I don't know, to see so much
pain on a canvas.
sure it was helpful for the artist to externalize that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So I

believe that the deepest art goes deeper than that and just show the pain, the human pain.

goes, it might, may also include the human pain, but like the great works of literature are not just
expressions of human suffering, they also show a dimension that's beyond suffering.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Well, another question from Mary in Birmingham, Michigan.
"Politics in the pain-body," she writes. "Is it the pain-body that leads us to be fascinated with others'
downfalls, such as the governor of New York and mayor of Detroit? I find myself eagerly watching the
news to hear more about the scandals. I find myself wondering what I would do if I were in their place,
having risen so high, so successful and fallen so far, fallen so far." That's Mary in Birmingham,
Michigan. Is that our pain-body that loves to hear bad things about other people? The tabloids?
hearing
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even watching the news, things that are true, scandals.
Page 44 of 51
Loving bad news.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, loving bad news.

also of the pain-body. And so there are some, some publications actually thrive on emotional
negativity. They actually, they sell a negative emotion. Some newspapers do it in their headlines, and
because they have realized the more negative the headlines are, the more papers they sell.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you were saying the British press love it.
love it. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And we do too now in our country.
Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): More and more tabloid newspapers, tabloid magazines, following the
lives of famous people. People love to see famous people fail, fall.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And is, that's our pain-body?
Whatever, whenever you see in that negativity, the enjoyment of negativity in whatever form, or the
enjoyment of negative events, the enjoyment of negative things happening to people, the enjoyment of
your own negative thinking, all that is pain-body. It lovers pain and lives on it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And loves drama. It seeks drama.

Drama is part of that pain, yes.
Page 45 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. That story you told about going into the restaurant.

yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Oh my gosh. Going into the restaurant and this guy is all
disrupted. Wow.
but the, it was particularly strange because it happened immediately after I'd had a session with a
woman who had a very heavy pain-body at home. She came to see me at home, and she had carried this
pain-body for many, many years. It was so heavy that one could almost sense it in the energy field.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. We've all encountered people like that where it's deep, it's heavy,
it's dark.
yes, yes. So I had been doing work with her, and suddenly she became conscious. She was able to
separate suddenly for the first time in her life, she was able to separate herself from the pain-body, and
there was an awareness that realized she was carrying this heavy pain-body inside. That was a great
liberation for her, and she went off and said, "Oh, this is wonderful, thank you so much." And that was
the beginning of the change in her. And after this session with the woman I went off to the restaurant.
And I felt so happy that the pain-body had left her, not left her permanently, but the awareness had
come in. And then, in the restaurant, I encountered a man in a wheelchair at a table nearby who had just
finished his meal, and then I could feel the negative emotion in him building up becoming stronger and
stronger and stronger, and suddenly he started shouting and screaming. And the, I realized I had a
suspicion that the pain-body, the universal pain-body, because every person or pain-body is the
expression of the one human universal pain-body, that the pain-body had come back there to tell me,
"I'm still here. You thought you got rid of me, but I'm still here." So the pain-body got into the person
who had the most negativity inside.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause the person with the most negativity would have drawn that.
Page 46 of 51
Drawn it in, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But did you, at the end of this incident in the book that you write about,
and the restaurant owner says, "Did you do all this, did you cause this?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): See,
the restaurant owner must have had some intuition that there was some connection.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Between you sitting in the restaurant.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And every, and all this disruption.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the answer is? Did you? Did the pain-body follow you into the
restaurant?

never knew the answer. It occurred to me that that might have happened. All it means is that the
energy that was so heavy, the room, my place where she had come to see me was so heavy with that
energy when I left, perhaps it came with me. And it's possible. I don't know the final answer to that,
but it's a possibility.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause yeah, cause as we were saying earlier, you speak of the pain-
body like if it's an alien force, like it's like a ghost of some kind.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it is. It's not a ghost; it's an energy.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's an
energy.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's an energy field.
Page 47 of 51
it becomes, eventually it becomes transmuted, which means it loses its energy for its pain-body form,
and the very energy that was trapped there, because the energy was trapped, it was emotional energy
that was trapped inside this shell, that becomes freed through presence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's what we're going to talk about next week is how you can begin
to free the pain-body or any energy that you're carrying from the past.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you can see it instantly.
free it instantly, but although not the whole of it necessarily instantly, but in the moment some of it
can become transmuted. And I'll, the example I give is like, it's like putting a log into the fire. The fire is
the fire of consciousness or presence. And so the pain-body can actually be transmuted and becomes
presence. We'll talk about that next week.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Next week. Before we say goodbye, though, let's sum up what we've
covered in this class today. What do you want people to know about the pain-body?
most vital thing is for people to be there when it happens. Now, when it happens means it's either
happening to somebody close to you at home, your partner or family member or, more importantly,
when the pain-body happens to you. Now, it's easier to realize that the pain-body's there when you
see it arising in somebody else. Always easier.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In other people.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You'll
require more presence to see it in yourself. But that's the vital thing is to be there and realize it, that's
the pain-body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, the way you know it's in yourself is when you start to tell
yourself a story. The woman who was the big fat cow or her family had called her a big fat cow her
whole life, when you start to, replaying the tapes in her head over and over again, my story, my story,
my story, identifying with that, anything you identify with is ego.
Page 48 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. That's how you know it's the pain-body.
or a sudden emotion arises. Something, your partner made a remark, said something and an enormous,
an emotional [unintelligible] is that it's out of proportion to the external trigger. And that could be the
beginning of arising pain-body. So then you say, "Oh, there's the pain-body." Then you're
already, you're not at the mercy of the pain.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let me ask you this. On the night that you had that, you know, the
breakthrough where you said, "I cannot live with myself any longer," did you lose your pain-body too?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, that was just one happy day, wasn't it?
quite rare.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh my goodness. You lost your ego, you lost your pain-body, what a
day that was.
well.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): After
years of dreadful suffering. So that's the, one more thing to say about the pain-body is when you see it
in somebody else, you have to be very careful. The pain-bodies don't like to hear that they are the
pain-body. So when you're talking to somebody like your partner, you have to be very careful because
once the partner has already been taken over by the pain-body, if at that stage you say, "There's your
pain-body," your partner won't hearing you anymore, the pain-body will be hearing you, and the pain-
body will say something back, and it won't be pleasant.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Will defy you. And it won't be pleasant.
you can't argue with the pain-body. No way you can ever
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Can't?
can't, you can never win an argument with the pain-body, it'll always win, the pain-body will win. It'll
go on and on and on and finds another clever argument why the pain is justified and right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so it's like our first caller from Silver Spring was talking about her
sister. What we must learn to do is be compassionate.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stand still.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stand still, as I said with the poem. Stand still and allow it to be
whatever it is.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then
then you don't feed it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't feed it. Don't allow yourself to be drawn into, pulled into the
drama of it.
if the pain-body is not fed, then it won't sustain itself for that long. It will have to seek some other
place where it will get fed or it will subside. So that's the beauty when you're in a relationship. If both
partners are conscious enough, you can have an agreement that says, "If I observe the pain-body
beginning in you, or you observe the pain-body beginning in me, please let me know."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're going to point it out.
Page 50 of 51
have to point it out at the beginning before it takes over completely because once it's taken over
completely, the person won't be hearing you anymore. But at the beginning, you could still say, "Could
that be your pain-body?" Even that is dangerous, but you can try.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "No, it's not my pain-body!" Well, thanks to everybody around the
world for joining us. Again, this fifth class will be available on demand tomorrow for free, of course,
here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any of our classes, you can do that, also,
tomorrow. All of them are available at Oprah.com and iTunes. It's free. Thanks to Nature Made Softgel
vitamins. Don't forget to update your workbook and get ready for next week's class. Again, we thank
you.

Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We thank you. You're a man without a pain-body. We'll see you in class
next time. Thank you. Goodnight, everybody.
Page 51 of 51
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome, everybody, to class six of our New Earth Web series with
author Eckhart Tolle. We're live again tonight, and one of the things that we both look forward to every
week is the energy that we feel from all of you out there who've signed on from your living room
couches, from your kitchen tables, your home offices and dens and family rooms. I consider this to be
a sacred moment where we can come together in community this way and share in this work. So
wherever you are right now, I thank you, Eckhart Tolle thanks you for awakening with us. One of my
other favorite books is a booking that Eckhart Tolle had written, I don't know how many years ago, a
couple?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A few
years ago.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A few years ago. And it's a little book with wonderful passages in it, and
it's called Stillness Speaks. It really speaks to, just on a different level, what we've been talking about in
New Earth, and I wanted to begin tonight's class before we begin our moments of silence here, reading
from the beginning of Stillness Speaks by Eckhart Tolle. And it says, "Stillness is your essential nature.
What is stillness? The inner space or awareness in which the words on this page are being perceived
and become thoughts. Without that awareness, there would be no perception, no thoughts, no world.
You are that awareness disguised as a person." I just love that, "that you are the awareness." That's
what we've been saying week after week here is that you're not your thoughts. You are the awareness
of your thoughts.

Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Disguised as a person.
And you're not your sense perceptions. You are the awareness that makes all sense perception possible.
You're not your emotions. You're the awareness that makes all these emotions possible. So that's the
that's the dimension where you are timeless. Everything else is time.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So "when you lose touch with your inner stillness, you lose touch with
yourself. When you lose touch with yourself, you lose yourself in the world. Your innermost sense of
self, of who you are, is inseparable from stillness. This is the I Am that is deeper than name and form.
You are the awareness disguised as a person."
Page 1 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I think we should have our moment of silence leading into that.
So I suggest to use again thewhat I sometimes call the "anchor of the inner body" so that we can put
our attention into the inner body and fully inhabit the body, be in the body and feel the aliveness that
pervades the entire body. And that's where our attention is, and that is our anchor for stillness. So let's
do that now. Attention moves away from thinking into the aliveness of the inner body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. That is beautiful. So everybody, tonight we're discussing
Chapter 6, "Breaking Free." Let's start with an overview of what this chapter is really about. In Chapter
5, as you all know, we met the pain-body, and that'swe all know what that is; that part of us that's
addicted to negativity and unhappiness, and Eckhart says that the beginning of freedom from the pain-
body lies, first of all, in the realization that we all have a pain-body. That was Chapter 5. We did that
last week. Now in Chapter 6, we're going to explore what triggers the pain-body in our everyday lives
and whether it's a situation or certain things other people do or say. Eckhart shows us how that we can
actually use those triggers to enter a more heightened state of awareness. And also, this chapter is
about breaking free of the pain-body so you don't have to continually carry the past and everything that
happened in the past and what people did to you, your story. You can release that. Tonight is about
breaking free. At the beginning of the chapter on page 162, you say that when you disidentify with the
pain-body, "the energy that was trapped in the pain-body," you say, "then changes itself, its vibrational
frequency, and is transmuted into Presence. In this way, the pain-body becomes fuel for consciousness.
This is why many of the wisest, most enlightened men and women on our planet had a heavy pain-
body," you say. So what I want to ask is that so many people today medicate themselves. Any
uncomfortable feelings that you have, you go to a psychiatrist or counselor, whomever; the first thing
they do is prescribe medication for you. Does medication get in the way of using the pain-body as fuel
for enlightenment?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): To a

large extent it does. There may be certain extreme cases when medication is necessary, and for people
who already are on medication, it's certainly not advisable to go off medication without the advice of a
doctor. So if you feel that it's time for you to get off, talk to a doctor who is relatively conscious and
can help you gradually to get off the medication. So it's really a question of not giving in to this
culturally conditioned behavior that says whenever you feel some discomfort inside yourself,
emotional disturbance, immediately to seek some external help in the form of a substance, that you ask
your doctor to give you, rather, learn to be with inner comfort that arises, learn to be with emotional
pain that arises. Rather than wanting to eliminate it, learn to accept it. Acceptance is one of the main
focal points of this teaching. Learn to accept whatever emotion arises in you rather than run away from
it or wanting to eliminate it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But whythis is the thing, Eckhart, why would I want to accept it?
That's why people are medicating themselves.
Page 2 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's why people eat, they gamble, they overwork themselves, they live
in denial, they become unconscious because they don't want to deal with the pain. That's what we're all
trying to get away from is the pain.
yes. Now, if you medicate it, it doesn't actually go away. It dulls the pain so that you are not conscious
of it anymore. It's still there in the background. It's the same thing for many illnesses. For example, I
had a heavy cold a couple weeks ago. I didn't take anything. Some people take things so the symptoms
are suppressed of the cold. It doesn't suppress the cold, the cold is still there. So why accept it? It's
because it is here at this moment. So it's part of bringing this inner yes to whatever arises in the present
moment. It is part of becoming friendly with the present moment even if on the surface, the present
moment doesn't look that great. So we are bringing, and this is where the awareness begins to come
into the emotion, if we bring acceptance to whatever we feel at this moment, rather than not wanting to
feel it, the equivalent of that would be an external situation that arises, and then I resist it because I
don't want the situation to be as it is, but it already is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Then you just cause stress whenand that's what you say in this book,
and also in "The Power of Now," wanting something to be different than it is is what causes stress.
creates further negative emotion if there's some emotion in you that is not pleasant and then you don't
want to be feeling what you feel, creates, on top of the old emotion that's already there, another
negative emotion that wants to deny what's there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the best thing to do is to feel it, accept it, allow the feeling to do
whatever it's going to do to you, make you feel sad, or angry, or upset, or whatever, and then choose to
do something about that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or not.
Realize first that you are the awareness for that emotion; you are the space for it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You are the awareness disguised as a person.
are not the emotion, you're the awareness.
Page 3 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not the emotion. Okay.

then already a shift has happened because if you completely identify with the emotion, then the
emotion will very quickly rise into your mind, and it will control your thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you will think it's you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you will think it's you.

you will be identified with the emotion, let's say it's anger that arises; a slight trigger triggers enormous
anger, and immediately you start to think angry thoughts.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or if

it's sadness or depression, you immediately start to think thoughts that reflect the emotion, and the
pain-body loves that because the pain-body will feed on the energy of your thinking.
once you are trapped in the vicious circle between emotion and emotional thinking when all the self-
talk in your head, that is, everybody experiences most of the time, self-talk in the head then becomes
the voice of the pain-body that is talking in your head. And then all your interpretations of other
people, of events will be totally distorted and very negative.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you say at the bottom of page 162, "when you realize that pain-
bodies unconsciously seek more pain, that is to say, they want something bad to happen, you'll
understand that many traffic accidents are caused by drivers whose pain-bodies are active at the time.
When two drivers with active pain-bodies arrive at an intersection at the same time, the likelihood of
an accident is many times greater than under normal circumstances." So is it always the pain-body that
attracts accidents and other bad things?
No. That's just one factor that is often there, but there are many other factors that could attract an
accident. Many people are not fully present when they drive. I remember there was a sad story some
years ago of a famous actor who got thrown off his horse and then had a spinal injury.
Page 4 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Christopher Reeve.
and he passed away, I think, a couple of years ago. And I remember seeing the interview with him
when he talked about that incident. He loved riding, and so he was horse riding, and he said for one
moment he lost the present moment while he was riding his horse, and at that moment he got thrown
off the horse.
he said that was one moment of unawareness and it happened. But then he actually grew tremendously
inside after the accident because he brought complete acceptance to what happened to him. And so
there was an enormous awakening that happened in him before he passed away.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even though he was paralyzed.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, Dave is Skyping us from his home office in Madison, Wisconsin.
Dave, thank you for joining us.
DAVE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your question is?
DAVE: First off, I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you to both of you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You are welcome, welcome, welcome.
DAVE: My question is, when my wife and I have a disagreement, she comes back hours or days later
wanting to rehash that disagreement, and she always feels there has to be a wrong or a right to it, how
can I get her to live in the present and get the ego out of the way?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Were you watching last week when he told the story of the two monks?
Page 5 of 39
DAVE: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what the monk said to the other monk, "You're still carrying that
girl, I put her down hours ago." Was your wife
DAVE: I want to us to become the two ducks.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You want to become the two ducks. Okay, good.
you need to see what is your role when you have disagreements at home. I assume that your wife has a
pain-body that becomes active at that time. And when you have disagreements, is your pain-body also
a contributing factor at home, or do you feel that it is just your wife's pain-body? In other words, how
do you feed intowhat is your part in the disagreement and in the energy field there?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, how are you playing into the drama of it, Dave?
DAVE: I don't stay play into the drama of it, and that seems to initially increase it more on her behalf.
And then, but lately, after going through the book, I find that I look for a single thing, her eyes are
beautiful, and I just think of those, and I take to a different place inside myself, and it seems that it kind
of, it just diminishes on her behalf then.
when you disagree or you have an argument, that means to some extent you must be identified with a
mental position, and because if you don't have a mental position that you identify with, there is no
argument.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. That's why I said "hmm" to Dave.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This,
yes, so this is why Oprah was a little bit skeptical.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Skeptical, yes.
you were talking. So it's perhaps before we talk about your wife, maybe there's something that you can
so that you left go of identification with mental positions when you discuss things. You can still
discuss the practicality of certain things that you need to talk about, but don't become identified with a
mental position of rightness that makes you right. Andbecause that is what the ego thrives on and
that is what feeds the pain-body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Whenever you identify with anything, it's the ego. That's interesting.
Page 6 of 39
Whatever you identify with becomes ego. So perhaps bring more vigilance intoespecially when you
see a situation is developing, that is going to become an argument, or you can see that the pain-body in
your wife is becoming active again. And then it's a time of being particularly alert and vigilant inside
yourself so that you do not get drawn into opposing her in any way.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And even, Dave, you know, the reason why I said "hmm" and was
skeptical because of what Eckhart just said, if I may reiterate, if you aren'tif there's no drama
involved at all with you, if you just become peace, then the argument has to dissolve. Like the
womanthe story that he tells in the book of the woman who came and was so upset and carrying all
the papers and the bills and so forth, and as he sat there just listening, taking it in, she finally said,
"This doesn't matter, does it?" And left and went home, you remember that?
DAVE: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): From a couple old classes ago. And I understand what you're talking
about because often, when you start reading this material and you start, you know, to awaken yourself,
we become a little self-righteous about it, you know? So perhaps maybe there's a little bit of that still
remaining with you where you want to say "I am so" Cause I know this happened with Stedman and
myself. We're in a discussion, and I'm feeling, "Well, I am very awakened, I'm a very evolved person,
so what you're saying is not going to upset me," but that attitude, the energy of that, my ego and my
self-righteousness is what contributed to the drama, you see what I'm saying?
DAVE: I do. I do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Your need to be right or your need to feel like, you know, "I'm a
little bit more superior because I'm not engaging in this and you are."
Yes. So that's then =alertness and vigilance is very important on your part.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think what you just said here is so important for every one of us who's
trying to continue to awaken to this process, that whenever there's an argument or disagreement, the
thing is is to not, and it's not to ever make it about the other person even though it seems to be. The
question is not, "What can I do for my wife, for my partner, for my boss, for my co-worker?" But it is,
"What can I do in the situation?"
That's
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. What is my contribution to it?
Page 7 of 39
right. That's primary. And then your wife, I don't know whether she has any interest in spiritual
teaching or the pain-body, have you ever mentioned to her the pain-body? Not while there's a pain-
body attack happening, but when the pain-body is
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you said nobody hears you when you say it.
because whenyou cannot talk to the pain-body about the pain-body. That was actually dangerous
because the pain-body will throw something at you. So thedoes your wifewhat?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love it when you get tickled. Go ahead.

know pain-bodies, so theyso is your wife sometimes relatively more open to this than at other times?
Or is she always not open to this, in your view?
DAVE: She's not open to it to this point, but when I was running off the sheets for this week's class,
she picked them up out of the printer, and she read them over, and she said, "Mm, you're talking about
me." So maybe that opens the book.
Yes. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Opens the door. Dave, thanks so much for your questions. Thanks so
much.
DAVE: Thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, "many acts of violence," you say on page 163, "are committed by
'normal' people who temporarily turn into maniacs." Does this mean that you think people are not
responsible for what they do when possessed by the pain-body?
that's what I say, they are not responsible. As we mentioned last time Jesus on the cross when he said,
"They know not what they do," meaning they are so unconscious, they are in the grip of an energy field
at which they cannot control, they don't even know that they are in the grip of this energy field because
it has taken complete possession of them. So in that sense, I say they are not responsible, which does
Page 8 of 39
not mean that they do not suffer the consequences of their actions. So it almost looks like a little bit of
a paradox. Yes. No, they are not responsible, nevertheless, karmically, they will suffer the
consequences of their unconsciousness because human beings areour purpose is to evolve into
conscious beings. So if we are not evolving into conscious beings, then we suffer.
more closed we are to this evolutionary impulse of evolving into consciousthe flowering of
consciousnessthe more closed we are to this, the more we suffer. And so these people who inflict
violence on others who make others suffer also make themselves suffer. And they suffer the
consequences, karmically. And sometimes the karmic consequences come in the form of the legal
system. So theythey are put away and so that represents for them at that time, karma. And then
there's always a possibility when they are in deep suffering because of something that they did in a
state of complete unconsciousness. When they then are in deep suffering, perhaps in prison, wherever
they may be, there's always the possibility then of awakening through the suffering that they inflicted
on themselves, on others also.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Because you say on page 164, "When you can't stand the endless
cycle of suffering anymore, you begin to awaken. So the pain-body too has its necessary place in a
larger picture." There are a lot of people who never awaken. They just, you know, the pain-body just
they die with it.
that is true Then there's always a chance that the unawakened consciousness awakens in some other
form, in some other situation. So but the entire universe is going in that direction of awakening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Awakening.

is the more we are open to this as
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because we have to or we're going to die.

have to. Yes, as the human species now
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're going to evolve or die.
the impulse, the awakening impulse has been there for a million years, longer, but for us now, we have
arrived at this critical point where humanityif humanity does not embrace this new state of
Page 9 of 39
consciousness, the awakened state, then humanity's not going to make it. On a cosmic scale, even that
doesn't matter. And whatever gain there has been achieved in the awakening of conscience on this
planet is not going to be lost. There's only one consciousness throughout the entire universe, and that
one consciousness is awakening in millions and billions of life forms.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so if we don't survive as a human species?
not the greatest tragedy either. Relatively speaking, it is tragic, but in absolute terms, that's fine too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and it's reallyit's our decision.
Yes. The fact that we are here at this very moment engaged in this work is very good sign.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This conversation, yeah. It's a sign.

Because here at least we know that at right now, here, the awakening is happening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, for the hundreds of thousands of people who are joining us
around the world.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Danielle who's joining us now from Ireland and Skyping us from
Dublin. Hi, Danielle.
DANIELLE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What time is it in Dublin right now?
DANIELLE: I think it's half 2 in the morning.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Well, you're up late, thank you for joining us.
DANIELLE: No, no, no, I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for having me. And my question is about
ego, and I'm just going to read it out. And I've been practicing trying to stay in the present moment for
over three years now, but I've come to some sort of block because my ego keep on telling me, "If you
get rid of your ego, you will lose the world as you know it. You will lose your relationships with the
Page 10 of 39
friends you had built up for years. And you want to give up your career you have worked so hard for,
and you'll be isolated from the rest of society because they are all living in ego." How can I overcome
this?
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Excellent question.
as you may have noticed, these are thoughts that arise in your mind. These thoughts that arise in your
mind are telling you something. Now, what these thoughts are saying may be very far from the truth,
what the thought that if you awaken, if you become really present, you're going to lose your friends,
life is not going to be fun anymore. You have to see, is that the truth or are these just thoughts that my
egoic mind is producing in order to stop me from being present? Do I believe in those thoughts or do I
believe in firsthand evidence that I have because, if you've been practicing being present, then you
realize it's actually quite joyful to be fully open to the present moment. It doesn't take away from the
fun of being alive. It actually makes you more intensely alive when you are fully present in the now
rather than always looking to some next moment that's going to be better than this one. This is how
most of the world lives. So youI'm sure you've already had glimpsesmore than glimpses of how
the quality of your life actually becomes enhanced through being fully present to life now, because life
is now. And your mind isplease, the question.
DANIELLE: No, I definitely have. And, but I think it's just the ego keeps on slipping in or else you'd
be in a situation where your friends expect you to act the same way that you've always acted, like in
ego. Like your friendshipa lot of friendships are kind of, are bound through ego.
DANIELLE: You know, it's your personality and, you know, you'll try and be in the present moment
and then they'll be, like, "Come on, come on, you know, let's go and do something," you know, which
is obviously trying to escape from the present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But isn't it true, Danielle, when you become to awakenwhen you
come to the state where you feel more alive and awakened and willing to be more present with
yourself, that that means you might have to let go of some of the things that used to bring you a false
sense of happiness?
DANIELLE: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That maybe the same people you used to hang around with and do
things with who are not, you know, ready to follow your path or not willing to be a part of some of the
Page 11 of 39
things that you now recognize that matter, maybe it means letting some of those friends go. That's the
whole point.

Maybe just a comment on this.

Usually what happens when people become more present, some of their friends are actually drawn into
that also because it'swhatever state you're in will affect the people around you. Oh, you're back.

So usually it happens that some of your friends will actually join you and also grow in presence and
awaken, and others may drop away who are not ready yet. That is usually the case. And your career
doesactually can only improve because the quality of anything that you do in full presence is so
much greater, and there's so much power available to you that is not there when you're always looking
to some other
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you're scattered.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you're scattered.
remember a couple weeks ago I quoted the Zen master who was observing competitors at an archery
competition, and the Zen master was observing one competitor, and he said, "His need to win drains
him of power." And, of course, this need to win, which most people in the old consciousness have, is
the need to arrive at some future point, and it takes energy away from what you're doing now.
And that drains you of power. So whatever you do becomes actually more powerful when you are
present rather than, so it can
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I remember when I first started doing this talk show 22 years ago, I used
to get asked a lot of questions about other talk shows and other people. And I always used to say,
"We're running our own race here." And the energy that it takes to look back and see where the other
guy is in the race, and there have been a lot of guys and female guys and guys with shows who were in
competition. I go, "The energy that it takes to look at what somebody else is doing takes energy away
from what you're doing."
Page 12 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I mean, if you're on track, I used to run track, and if you just take the
moment to look back and see where the other guy is, that energy is so draining and causes you to lose
your own footing and lose your own concentration and focus. So that's what you're saying.
and that's alsoput this sense that you're competing against others is part of the ego energy.
that also takes power away.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, instead of just run the race. Run your own race.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, what's the best way for us to sense the pain-body? It's verythank
you so much, Danielle. Joining us from Dublin.
DANIELLE: (unintelligible) for the technical problems. Thanks, bye.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, bye.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bye-
bye. Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's very easy for all of us to spot the pain-body in other people and I've
actually heard the word come up many times this week. "Oh, that was his pain-body, oh that was his
pain-body." So thanks for introducing it to our culture. So it's easy to see it in other people. What's the
best way, number one, to spot it in yourself? And how do you stop ourselves from acting out when
we're in its grip? Are there simple, you know, exercises or something we can do to break the grip when
you feel yourself go in there?
So the important thing is to catch it as it first arises in the first because, before it takes over your mind,
when it's there as an emotion, and usually it's the pain-body when the emotional reaction is out of
proportion to the triggering event. So a relatively minor thing triggers an enormous amount of
unhappiness in whatever form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. A small thing happens and you flare up.
Page 13 of 39
yes. And so thenand after a while you realize the kind of situation that triggers your pain-body. And
then you can be actually more vigilant when such a situation happens. And you can seea very
important thing is to be able to have some attention inside your body that is connected with the
exercise we did at the beginning today, which is bringing consciousness into the body, because if
you're able to bring consciousness into the body, you can more easily feel an arising emotion inside
you, whether it's a very heavy emotion of deep sadness or whether it's a fiery emotion of anger, or
whatever it is. The emotion of intense fearthat contraction. Then you canthere are so many people
these days who are completely out of touch with their emotions because they live only in the head. So
being able to feel an emotion as it arises and then recognizing it as the beginning of the pain-body; my
pain-body. And as long as you know this is the pain-body, you're not identified with it because the
knowing is the awareness. So when you, if you can catch it early on, and then it may still grow,
suddenly the fear may become very intense, or the anger, or whatever form the pain-body takes, but
you will be there as the awareness in the background while it happens. And one thing that doesn't
happen is that the pain-body cannot control your thinking because you're shining the light of
consciousness on it. It cannot then creep into your mind and suddenly make your mind think what it
wants to think. So remain there as the awareness for it and say, "Oh, there's the pain-body." Then it
cannot renew itself, and it also cannot control your behavior; your actions. All it is that you have
contained it, not through holding it down, but you have contained it there through your presence.
then it can't renew itself through that situation. So it suddenly comes up, but it cannot renew itself. And
then it will subside again. But the pain-body, being very clever, it will then wait for a more suitable
opportunity when you are less conscious, and at that moment, and then it will come up again.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It will try again.
for example
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like you're always being tested.
The pain-body is like a little wild animal or something. It's alwaysit's there in the back, and saying,
"Okay, what situationcan Iam I going to come out now or is the situation not right? It is too
conscious."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is the pain-body also your ego, Eckhart?
Page 14 of 39
pain-body is the emotional aspect of ego. So that when you identify with the pain-body, it becomes
part of the ego because whatever you identify with becomes part of the ego. When you don't identify
with it, it's no longer a part of the ego.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right, because what you identify with is the ego. I like this question
from Loraine from Vancouver, British Columbia, who writes, "I attract negativity. It seems that my
whole world is one big fight. I just want people to stop instigating fights with me. I don't deliberately
go out and begin conflict, but it comes to me. I hate it. I just want peace. What's the problem?" Isn't
that interesting?
yes. Now, this iswhatever you experience repeatedly, and frequently, externally is a reflection of
your inner state. So you attract certain things into your life that reflect your state of consciousness. So,
for Loraine, it's very important to become much more aware of whatever state she is in at any given
moment, become more aware of what emotion she's feeling at any given moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because Loraine could not be attracting fights and conflict unless she
was emanating that energy.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say on 162, "Every human being emanates an energy field that
corresponds to his or her inner state, and most people can sense it, although they may feel someone
else's energy emanation only subliminally. That is to say, they don't know that they sense it, yet it
determines to a large extent how they feel about and react to that person."
And so there are two aspects to your inner state. There's the emotional aspect to your inner state: What
is the energy of the emotion that you feel? And there's a mental aspect: What kinds of thoughts are
you, is your mind producing at this moment? Is your mind producing negative thoughts? What kind of
thoughts? So you need to be there as the awareness, become aware of, "What is it that I feel right now?
What is my state at this moment?" That's a good question to ask yourself. "What's my inner state at this
moment?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): At the moment that somebody instigates a fight with her?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No.
Page 15 of 39
Normal moments when you're not being challenged because all these accumulate. Your normal state of
consciousness eventually produces some sort external event. So as much as possible, in any situation,
it's always more important what your inner state of conscience is than the external situation.
external situation is always secondary. So, "What am I feeling now, and what am I thinking now?"
These are the important questions. So becomean alertness then arises and you becomesuddenly
realize, "What's my mind saying? What'smost of the day, what kind of thought is my mind
producing? How many negative thoughts do I have every hour, every minute?" You become aware
particularly ofbecause the ego loves negative thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so with that, thosewhat you're saying then, it would be
impossible for Loraine to be a peaceful person, to say, she says here, "I just want peace. What's the
problem?" It would be impossible to just be a peaceful person, minding your own business, having
peaceful loving thoughts, and people want to pick a fight with you all the time.
that would not be possible. There's something in her that she needs to become aware of. And that's not
her true self. It's a form of conditioning. Her true self is the awareness, which is already perfect. It's
fine. There's nothing wrong with who she is, her essence. So look, be vigilant as much as possible.
Maybe put little signs at home, little reminders so that you remember to be conscious of what's going
on inside you. "What's going on inside me?" Very important question.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "What's going on inside me?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "What
thoughts is my mind thinking?"
is it that I'm feeling right now?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I wanted to go back to page 162 again where you say, "Every human
being emanates an energy field that corresponds to his or her inner state, and most people can sense it,
although they may feel somebody else's energy emanation only subliminally. That is to say, they don't
know that they sense it, yet it determines to a large extent how they feel about and react to that person."
I had encounter with somebody recently where their energy thing was so strong, I walked into the
room and felt it so strong, I had to remove myself from the room.
Page 16 of 39
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Some people are most clearly aware of it when they first meet someone
even before any words are exchanged." That's what had happened there. "A little later, however"I
love this part. "A little later, however; words take over the relationship and with words come the roles
that most people play. Attention then moves to the realm of mind, and the ability to sense the other
person's energy field becomes greatly diminished."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Nevertheless, it is still felt on an unconscious level." And that's why
kids can sense it, little kids can sense it because they don't have the words or the language.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't that true?
And animals can sense it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And animals can sense it too.
very acutely because they don't have the conceptual mental realm, so they can feel much more acutely
a human energy field.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, and after they're introduced to you, your title means nothing
to them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Your title, or your position, or your label, the role that you're
playing means nothing to them.
No.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So once they sniff you and they don't like you, they don't like you. We
have Mubeena on the phone from Dubai. Hi, Mubeena, we hear you have a question.
MUBEENA: Hi, Oprah. Good morning.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I hear Dubai is so great.
MUBEENA: It's beautiful. Please come visit.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I think I might be coming. And yeah, I am. Do you have a
question about relationships?
MUBEENA: Oh, great.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go ahead.
MUBEENA: Yes. My question is about the nature of love. Eckhart says that love has no wanting, that
true love really is about not expecting anything in return. My question is related to a little personal
dilemma. I met somebody five years ago, and I really, really like him, but I noticed that he has a dense
pain-body. My question is, should I continue to be present for this person? I have been doing so for
five years, giving him my present time and really being there for him. And is it worth waiting? Cause I
really do want to get married and have a family someday. Is it worth waiting for someone, you know,
with a dense pain-body? But I still feel I want to be present for this person, and I know Eckhart says
that we shouldn't go around changing people.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, you're not going to change him, first of all.
MUBEENA: Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you hoping that you're going to change him?
MUBEENA: I'm hoping that he's going to let go of his past at some point and realize that I'm the one
for him.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I think you need a little more awakening.
MUBEENA: Okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, but I'll let Eckhart answer. Go ahead.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So do

you feel that you love that person?
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MUBEENA: Yes, very dearly.
let's see what it means to love someone. When you truly love another human being, there's something
that you recognize in them that has nothing to do with the form of that person. There is the recognition
of the essence of that person and your own essence, your own being, your own consciousness
recognizes that in the other. And that essence is the divine in each human being. So when you love
another person, you really love God in the other person. You don't love the person. If you love the
person, it's the ego because then you love the form. And if you love the person and not the formless
within the person, the divine, whenif you don't love God in the other person, then the love is of the
ego. And the ego love is very different from true love. The ego love is needy, and the ego love says,
"You love me back, and if you don't, I'm going to get very angry."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Or upset with you or impatient with you because you haven't loved me
the way I wish to be loved."
yes. So there's no need to deny what you feel for this person. It's actually
MUBEENA: Yes. I've never really expected anything back from him, but what I hear from friends is
always, "What are you waiting for?" And, you know, "He's not giving you anything back, so what are
you waiting for?" And I don't mind waiting another five years, it's just that I've just been, you know,
getting bombarded with questions from friends who are just saying, you know, "Go on out with other
people."
the love in you actually is fine. The love that you feel does not need anything. But you as a person, you
as a person may have certain needs and preferences in this situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't believe that she's making this phone call for her friends,
personally.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I believe you are making this phone call for yourself, Ms. Mubeena.
MUBEENA: Absolutely I am.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that it's not your friends who are saying, "Why doesn't he do
something?" I think, you know, what you expressed to us at the beginning of this phone call is that you
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think it's been five years, and it's time that he should do something. But he has a pretty heavy pain-
body, right?
MUBEENA: Sure.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so you want him to make a move, and you want that move to be
marriage?
MUBEENA: Well, it could lead to that, sure. I mean, I'm in no hurry. But I'm just
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What do you want? What do you want?
MUBEENA: I want him to realize that heI don't know, that II just love him, that's all, you know.
MUBEENA: And I just want him to see that. And I think he's just being blocked or his pain-body is so
dense.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm not buying that. No, I think what you said to us earlier is what you
really want. You said, "I want him to realize that I'm the one for him."
MUBEENA: Sure, definitely. I'm not going to lie about that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Yeah, you already said it. Go ahead.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what do you want to say about that, Eckhart?
it may be time for you to talk to him ,and say, "I love you, and what I feel for you is not going to
change, but I have certain needs and preferences. I would like you to decide and make a commitment
whether or not you want to be with me."
MUBEENA: Right, okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bold. That's bold. Bold, Eckhart. And then he says, "Well, I'm not ready
for that."
if he says, "I'm not ready," and you get angry or extremely upset, then it was ego love. If he says
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MUBEENA: He said that to me a lot of times before that he's not ready. And I said, "Fine, it's okay."
And
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, did you hear what Eckhart just said? Hello, Mubeena, did you
hear?
MUBEENA: Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you get upset then that's ego love.
MUBEENA: Ego, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And if you don't get upset, and you're patient, and as you said,
you can wait five more years or however it chooses to be, then perhaps maybe it is the real thing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Unless you're
MUBEENA: Okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're just waiting for him to make the move and discover that you're
the one.
MUBEENA: Okay. Yeah, that what I've been doing and I just wanted to confirm that, so that's fine.
That's confirmed, that's great.
extent to which you can love another human being depends on the extent to which you are connected
with your own essence. And you can recognize sometimes it's easier to recognize God in one particular
form, but you can recognize God in another human being. So the love is in you. And when youthe
love does not come from the outside, the love is the recognition of oneness that ultimately you and the
other share the one consciousness, that's what all connects and makes all humans one.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you say in the book, I don't know, I'm paraphrasing now,
because this was, I think last week that you really addressed in the pain-body is that many times people
mistake what they think to be love for their own neediness and their ego identification with, you know,
"This person validates me," or
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So true love is
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Especially in our society, in the American society, where it's all about
romance.
That's encouraged by the culture on what you see in films, the role-playing associated with that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. It's really damaged us a lot, hasn't it?
Yes. But we are waking up out of that. There are not so many films now that end in the happy marriage
or something like that because it'speople are beginning to recognize that it's not how it is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's it's not happily ever after.
No.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Mubeena.
MUBEENA: Thanks.
MUBEENA: Thank you.
you. Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Last week, we aired an interview on The Oprah Show
with Thomas, who is a transgendered man. Heard about this man who became pregnant?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A transgendered man who is pregnant and his wife, Nancy. We also
spoke to Thomas and Nancy's neighbors George and Victoria, who gave us their reaction, and I found
out during a commercial break that George and Victoria are students of A New Earth, and here's a clip
of our conversation after The Oprah Show went off the air.
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OPRAH WINFREY (CLIP): They just told me afterduring the commercial break that you're reading
A New Earth, are you taking the class?
VICTORIA (CLIP): Absolutely, and love it, Oprah. It's been fantastic. We actually read the book first,
and I couldn't put it down. I had to read the whole book because I had said to George, "At last I'm so
excited. This book is really captivating, you know?" And so then I encouraged George to take the class
with me, so we've been watching it together and studying together. And that's what's helped us be more
understanding and open-minded, nonjudgmental. As Eckhart says, no labels, trying to get judgment out
of our heads and stay in the moment and just really embrace our devoted neighbors as the human
beings that are with us sharing this earth.
GEORGE (CLIP): And I don't think it's a coincidence that we moved to Bend, and right across the
street from us we've encountered Nancy and Thomas and this situation because I think in a way there's
a design to this and it was an opportunity for us to grow, and this is why we're kind of honored, really,
to share this experience because it's really helped us become, you know, more enlightened people. It's
given us the opportunity to actually manifest what the seminars are all about.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's Victoria and George join us now from Skype from their home
office in Bend, Oregon. Since Nancy and Tom were on the show, has all the press been in your
neighborhood looking for them or looking for you?
GEORGE: Yes they were. Oddly enough, they kind of dissipated after your show. And it's been
relatively peaceful now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh good. Well, I remember you had a question for Eckhart, and I said I
was going to let you ask that question yourself that was related to the suffering of Christ. On page 144,
Eckhart writes, "Why is the suffering body of Christ, his face distorted in agony and his body bleeding
from countless wounds, such a significant image in the collective consciousness of humanity? Millions
of people, particularly in medieval times, would not have related to it as deeply as they did if
something within themselves had not resonated with it, if they had unconsciously recognized it as an
outer representation of their own inner realitythe pain-body. They were not yet conscious enough to
recognize it directly within themselves, but it was the beginning of them becoming aware of it. Christ
can be seen as the archetypal human embodying both the pain and the possibility of transcendence."
And you had a question regarding some of this. Go ahead, George.
GEORGE: Yes, thank you, Oprah, for having us on the show. Eckhart, you mention the Christian
doctrine a lot in your book, and this is a question to help me reconcile Christian doctrine with your
teachings. If it's true that the ego loves suffering, as you mention in your book, and if it's true, as the
New Testament says, that God sent his only begotten son to suffer and die for humanity's sins, was the
passion of Christ an ego trip?
Page 23 of 39
Thank you. Thank you. Now, I would not say that the ego loves suffering. The pain-body loves
suffering. The ego is actually, very often, tries very hard to avoid suffering. If the ego produces
suffering, inevitably sooner or later, because the way it goes about its business is dysfunctional. The
ego is a very limited view of who you are, and if you act from such a limited view of who you are, you
cannot see where you fit into the totality of other human beings and your environment, then eventually
your actions will produce suffering. So the ego produces suffering, or it wants something else. This is
why we have the proverb, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." The ego wants the best for
you, but it produces often the worst. So I would not say that the suffering of Christ is an ego trip. It's
not that. I'd like to share with you something, I had an insight some years ago, I was walking in
England into a village church. It was all very quiet. I was the only person in that 600-year-old church,
and I saw the cross and the altar and Jesus on the cross. And this is an image that we are so used to, we
don't question it, but at that moment, I saw it as if I had just arrived on this planet and had never seen it
before. And I was struck by the strangeness of that symbol. And I looked, there's a suffering human
being in agony on this cross. And at the same time, there was another cross without Jesus on it, and I
saw this golden cross was the same cross. That cross that is the torture instrument is at the same time a
symbol for the divine. And suddenly I saw a very deep significance in that that can be appreciated and
recognized, I believe, by anybody, even in they are not Christians. Jesus on the cross stands for
humanity. Jesus represents every human being that has ever lived or will ever live. Jesus represents
something that is part of the human condition, and thiswhat he experienced at that moment, I saw
when I was looking at the cross in the church, I saw that what this represents is a human being who
experiences an extreme form of limitation. He's totally unfree, totally limited, in deep suffering, and, at
the same time, the words are suddenly remembered from what is said on the cross, "Not my will, but
thy will be done." And that was the act of complete acceptance of suffering. He went to the depths of
suffering and then totally accepted suffering. And through this total acceptance of suffering, sudden
transmutation happened, and the very torture instrument, the cross that had produced the suffering, was
transformed and became a symbol for the divine. And that explained the paradox that I had seen when
I went into that church as if I had never been to a church before and I saw, how can the torture
instrument at the same time be a symbol of the divine? And so in every human being's life, every
human being will experience some form of suffering, sometimes very intense.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sometimes, every human being, as you said last week, will have their
own cross to bear.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cross,
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Will have their own cross to bear.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Every
human being has their own cross to bear. And every human being needs to learn the lesson that is
there. And we look at Jesus on the cross here, has to come to the point where a human being, instead of
Page 24 of 39
wanting to avoid suffering, says, "This is what is," and bring a complete yes to whatever is at this
moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not as I will, but thy will be done.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thy
will be done. Complete alignment. And that I call "conscious suffering," where, suddenly, the inner
resistance is not there anymore. And when you go into conscious suffering and say, "This is fine, I say
yes to this. Even the most unacceptable situation, if there's nothing I can do about it, I bring a yes to it."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not as I will, thy will be done.
And at that moment, the ego dies. And at that moment, the divine comes through. And the very thing
that was the worst thing that could ever happen to you when you bring surrender to it, becomes an
opening into the divine. And that's the miracle in the transformative value of the cross.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Boy, I think that's powerful, George and Victoria, don't you? The
momentI got that. I just got that. I had a big old epiphany. The very moment, the worst thing that can
happen to you if you surrender to it, there's an opening that allows the energy of the divine to come
through; the moment of surrender.
And that is the grace
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that, George, didn't you get that?
GEORGE: Yes, I did, thank you. So it's a lesson for us, in other words.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a lesson, yeah.

Behind every form of suffering, there's grace hiding, concealed. It does not reveal itself until you
surrender, until you suffer consciously, until you no longer deny what is. So there's the grace that's
hiding behind every form of suffering.
GEORGE: So if the ego doesn't love suffering, but produces suffering, what is that voice in our head
that you refer to in the book, the voice that denigrates our self-esteem that says, "You weren't any
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good, you were never any good, you're never going to be any good"? That's also whatin thethe
Bible also is described as the voice of Satan. Is the ego in that sense a force of evil in us? You know,
you have the good and the bad, the duality.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Exactly.
GEORGE: Can you see (inaudible)?

Yes. Ego, I would define asego is complete identification with form. Total identification with form.
The form of me as this body. The psychological form of me, total identification with every thought that
arises. So you cannot step out. You are trapped in form completely, and that is evil. So going beyond
form, beyond identification with form is when the other dimension opens up.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and didn't in some cultures in the past, I saw this on Guy Ritchie's
documentary on the ego, that they used to refer to the ego as Satan?
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And some cultures refer to it as Satan. Thank you, George and Victoria.
Victoria, you're still enjoying the book? Or you're done now, right?
VICTORIA: I've finished the book, Oprah. I actually have a quick question if it's possible.
VICTORIA: I was curious, because, you know, you spoke of children and the trauma that young
children experienced when their parents are fighting. Eckhart, do you think that it's possible that a
pregnant mother passes her pain-body onto her unborn child and perhaps even generations that has
happened with the grandmothers, great-grandmother, passing that onto their own unborn baby so we
end up with this big old backpack of somebody else's pain-body? And can be free ourselves from that
as simply as being aware, like you said?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Great questions, guys, thank you.
yes. You're absolutely right. The pain-body is passed on from generation to generation. And certainly
whatever a mother experiences in pregnancy affects already the child that is inside her. Whatever
Page 26 of 39
emotion she experiences, it will affect and leave remnants in the child. And I believe that, although no
scientists have discovered it yet, I believe that even in the human DNA, there's already programming
that is the pain-body. And so we inherit it. It's only partly personal, in other words, partly derrises as a
result of things that happen to us in childhood and so on. But it goes back much further than that. It's
old, it's very old. And as you know, I mentioned in the book, another aspect of the pain-body is it's also
collective. You also inherit the pain-body of yoursometimes of your entire nation is part of your
pain-body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is what we were talking about last week, the pain-body of slavery
in this country that so many people are in denial about. The pain-body of what's happened to the
Native Americans in this country.
yes. And so what you said is absolutely true. So the mother will often already pass on her pain-body to
the unborn child.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So isn't that harder to get yourself free? We're going to talk about,
before this class is over tonight, breaking free of a pain-body. But if you inherited it, if it's like
genetically DNA encoded, isn't that harder to get rid of?

Well, that's how it is, but it'sit comes from the past, it is the living past in you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The living past in you.
the past has no power against the present.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The present moment, yes.

Present moment because all power arises out of the present moment because it is life itself. So, and this
is why you don't need years or generations to become free of the pain-body. It has taken many
generations for the pain-body to build up. But it takes only one conscious human and one conscious
moment now to disidentify from it and recognize it. You're not totally free yet, no, but you recognize it
for what it is. It takes only one moment of awareness now to see it for what it is and when this person
then has broken the unconsciousness of generations. And that's what we are engaged in. We are
breaking the unconsciousness that goes back thousands and thousands of years.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's pretty powerful. George and Victoria, thank you again from
Bend, Oregon.
Page 27 of 39
VICTORIA: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, guys.
GEORGE: Thank you. Because you folks are doing this on a global electronic basis, so thank you for
letting us be a part of that breakthrough.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, thank you, thank you for the second time.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, on page 170, you talk about children, and you say, "Suppressed
pain-bodies are extremely toxic, even more so that openly active ones, and that psychic toxicity is
absorbed by the children and contributes to the development of their own pain-body." So people who
are, I think about this all the time, we were just doing somebody on the show, we're always doing
somebody on the show who's arguing in their familieswhen you argue in front of your children. I
remember this the other day, the little girl said, "When my mommy and daddy argue, I go and hide
under the covers." When you argue in front of your children, you are creating and reinforcing their
pain-bodies.
did that as a child. I was always trying to hide from my parents' pain-body, which was there a lot of
time, active. So that's one way, is when there's an active confrontation, the parents having a
confrontation with their mutual pain-body.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you shocked us last week when you said you started thinking of
killing yourself when you were at a very young age, 9 or 10, because of your parents.
Yes. Yes, that was the general environment that I was in. I perceived it as extremely unpleasant. The
environment of my parents, and it was not that they were not loving parents, but they both had heavy
pain-bodies. I loved them, but I didn't know at the time why there was continuous conflict, I just knew
it was dreadful to be around them. And, of course, I was also unhappy at school because I never liked
having to study things that I didn't, wasn't interested in, and it wasn't done in an interesting way. So
yes, so the children then absorbone way they absorb the pain-body from their parents is when there's
open conflict between the parents' pain-bodies. But another way is also when parents, some parents
say, "We mustn't fight in front of the children." And, nevertheless, there's an intense emotional
negativity. They may not be saying anything, but there's an emanation of intense negativity in the
parents.
Page 28 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. I know a couple stayed together 24 years in orderuntil the
last child was grown and had gone to college. All the children are completely messed up, you know.
One problem after another problem: drugs and drinking and all kind of problems because the children
stayed in that house and absorbed all the energy that was in that house.

Yes. Yes. And sometimes it's the case if the parents that repress that because they don't want to fight in
front of the children or they may have an image of themselves as religious and they mustn't, so they are
not even admitting to themselves perhaps that there's intense negativity. And then the children grow up
in that, and sometimes they send the children, who are forced to act it out in the world.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And the interesting about that when you try to repress it,
when you're not fully realizing the truth of who you are, and you say the truth of who you are will set
you free, when you allow the repressed bad energy to go on in the household, the energy is still there.
It goes back to what I was saying on page 162. The energy is always there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And children more so than even adults whochildren who don't have
the language for it, pick up on the energy.
yes, that's right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And often blame themselves because they don't have the language to
explain.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, okay. You also say onwell, first of all, we'll do this. We'll go to
a caller on this topic from Melbourne, Australia. Hello. She has a 10-year-old daughter. Her name is
Wendy. Wendy, hi.
WENDY: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
Hi.
WENDY: Thank you for having me on the webcast today.
Page 29 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, great to talk to you.
WENDY: I have a question. Eckhart, on page 178, you state that, "Someone who in childhood was
neglected, who were abandoned by one or both parents, will likely develop a pain-body that becomes
triggered in any situation that resonates even remotely with their primordial pain of abandonment." So
I see this pain in my 10-year-old daughter whose father no longer sees her and hasn't really had much
of a relationship her. And my question is, how do I help her to her feelings of abandonment, and how
do I guide her through people-pleasing behavior? Because I notice she has a strong tendency to people-
please just to be accepted or liked. I would really love some help on this as I'm often at a loss on how
to help her through it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Can
you give an example of how this, what you see as a sense of abandonment, how it manifests in her
now? And what can you give a situation where this happens? How does she behave in such a
situation?
WENDY: Well, often there's been occasions when they have little parties at school and children get
invited, and she's one of the kids that's excluded because obviously not everyone gets invited to
everyone's birthday party. She's so traumatized by it, and she cries, and she doesn't understand, and she
comes and she says they don't like her or they don't love her. And then she'll try to often buy their
friendship. She'll take things to them, you know, take gifts or take Easter eggs, lately, and things like
that. And I just think, "Oh, how do I get her through this?" She wants to be liked all the time. She
wants approval. And often it's a case of intense tears and trauma.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): She's
now 10-years-old?
WENDY: Ten-years-old, yes.
Perhaps you can gradually, over the next few years, explain to her that she cannot be liked by
everybody. Nobody is liked by everybody. And you cannot expectI think if you explain it gently,
she will begin to understand that some, it is impossible in this world to be liked and accepted by
everybody, and it is not necessary to be liked and accepted by everybody. And especially if you do
things that are of any significance in this world, when she grows up, the more significant things you do
in this world, the more you will find there are certain people who don't like what you do.
even Oprah has people who don't like what she does. I don't know why, but
Page 30 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't either. Yes, and the more successful you become, the more
people you have who don't like what you do. So you have aand I used to belisten, as you're
describing your daughter, I used to be this little 10-year-old girl who had such a desire to please. I was
always taking all of my notebook paper and giving it to everybody else, whatever I had. Even in
college, nobody liked me so I would, you know, spend all my money cause I was working in TV from
the time I was a sophomore in college, and everybody else was jealous of me for having a job and, you
know, having a job on TV. And so I would take my money and buy pizzas for everybody and try to
make everybody like me. And, you know, listen, I hope yourI was 40-something before I figured it
out so I hope your daughter gets it before then.

I think some gentle explanation, just a little bit here and there. Now she's 10, and then over the next
few years. The behavior will continue for a while, you cannot just undo old conditioning in another
person.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The pain-body is, "I was not wanted by my father." That's what the 10-
year-old is feeling. "I was not wanted by my father."
Yes.
WENDY: Yes.

And the pain-body, if your daughter gets taken over by intense negative feelings that are out of
proportion to the triggering event, which is a sign that this is the pain-body, if this happens and when
this happens, after I describe it in A New Earth, after a pain-body episode is over, the next day, for
example, you talk to what your daughter felt at that time. "Yesterday, when you behaved in such a
way, when you did this, when you said that, what did it feel like?" Ask her questions about so that she
begins to put attention on her own emotions and she can detect them. Ask questions about after a pain-
body episode in your daughter, ask her what it feels like so that the awareness grows in her of this.
Next time, when it happens again, say, "Oh, there's thethat old thing has come back." She might
even, you may even encourage her to give it a name: the pain-body.
WENDY: Okay.
then she can identify it when it happens again. So, gradually, the child can be, instead of at the mercy
of these arising emotions, the child can already learn at an early age to be there as the awareness of the
emotion rather than to be taken over by the emotion.
Page 31 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Actually, I think children can learn this a lot easier than adults can
because we're so overly conditioned.
And that should be one of the main things that children learn at school, but so far that's not happening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. And, also, Wendy, I might suggest this, you know. I think one of
the things that would've helped me a lot, and I found this with my girls in Africa who come from really
disadvantaged backgrounds, they're disadvantaged, and one of the things I want to teach them is a life
of service. You always feel better about your life when you can be of service to someone else's. And so
if your daughter, even at 10, is exposed to children who are less fortunate than she is, children who are
orphaned or abandoned or, you know, in poverty, I don't know what the situation is in Melbourne. But
children who have less than she does, and she is able to see that her situation really isn't so bad and
allow her to feel a sense of gratitude for who she is, and where she is, and what she has, and yet also
empathy and compassion for people who have less than she does, I think that that will also, even at 10-
years-old, begin to offer some perspective for her.
absolutely.
WENDY: Yes, I agree, yeah, absolutely.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much for your call.
WENDY: Thank you very much. Thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So tonight's chapter, "Breaking Free," how do we do it? You say,
"How long does it take to become free of the pain-body?" On page 183. Tell us how long.

The important question, as I say, is not how long it takes to become free of the pain-body, but how
long does it take for me to stop identifying with the pain-body? That's because it's more important to
stop identifying with it because, in one sense, you're already free. The pain-body may still be there in
you for a while, but when you stop identifying with it, that's freedom already.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say the answer is, "Of course, it depends both on the density of an
individual's pain-body." Some are more dense than others.
Page 32 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As well as "the degree or intensity of that individual's arising Presence."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the more you're able to bring that sense of awareness, or as I said in
the beginning, that youyou who is disguised as awareness, that awareness is you disguised as a
person, the more you can be present with that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The more it dissipates.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It doesn't happen instantly.
But every time you disidentify, every time you are there as the awareness, the energy of the pain-body
already diminishes. So every time there's a little bit less of it, and what happens to the energy it's
allenergy's all one. There's only one energy, but it appears in different frequencies. And the pain-
body energy has a certain frequency. It's contained, it's rigid, it's tight, and it becomes freed, and it
contributes to the arising awareness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say, "But it's not the pain-body, but identification with it that
causes the suffering."
right. The pain-body itself is only
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Has no power over you.
and it's not suffering anymore when we don't identify with it. Then it's only an unpleasant feeling
inside you. You can hardly call it suffering. But it's suffering when you become it or it becomes you.
That's suffering.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "It's not the pain-body, but identification with the pain-body that forces
you to relive the past again and again and again and keeps you in a state of unconsciousness." I'm on
page 183, everybody. "So a more important question to ask would be: 'How long does it take to
become free of identification?'"
Page 33 of 39
That's the key. And the answer to that, of course, is it doesn't really take any time because all it
requires you is to be aware at this moment as it arises. In the moment it arises to see it and recognize it.
Be the awareness for it. Be the space for it. In other words, another expression we can use, "Are you
able to be the awareness for the pain-body, to be the space for the pain-body, and say, 'Oh, there it is'?"
That means you've broken the identification. All it requires is for you to be present in the now as the
awareness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And to remember that the past, no matter what it is, no matter how
awful it was, how horrifying, how much suffering, the past has no power over the present moment.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Has
no power because what arises out of present moment is the dimension of consciousness that we call
presence or awareness. It's a dimension that was already there in you always, but had been covered up
by density of emotion and density of conditioned mind structures; thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the way you get to that is to bring yourself back to the present
moment; get still.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Get still.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Get
still, and then that arisesthat dimension that then arises is we could call it, goes beyond who you are
as a person. It is transpersonal. It is the transpersonal dimension in you and it's thethat's the only
thing that can free you from the purely personal realm, which has its place, but is very limited. And it's
the only thing that can free you from the past and the heaviness of the past. And the past cannot prevail
against it. It is impossible because there is, it is the only power there is. So it is also the timeless
dimension in you when we talk of presence or awareness, there is no past and future in presence or
awareness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. When you say on page 184, "When you feel the pain-body,
don't fall into the error of thinking there's something wrong with you. Making yourself into a
problem"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "because the ego loves that."
Page 34 of 39
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. "The knowing needs to be followed by accepting," and we talked
about that a lot tonight, "anything else will obscure it. Accepting means you allow yourself to feel
whatever it is you're feeling at that moment. You can't argue with what it is. Well, you can, but if
you do, you suffer." That's how we suffer. "Through allowing, you become what you are: vast and
spacious. You become whole. You're not a fragment anymore, which is how your ego perceives itself.
Your true nature emerges, which is one with the nature of God." And then you say, "Jesus points to
this when he says, 'Be whole even as your Father in Heaven is whole.' The New Testament's 'be ye
perfect' is a mistranslation of the original Greek word, which means whole. This is to say, you don't
need to become whole, but be what you already are with or without the pain-body."

Yes, yes. You're already that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, this brings us to the question that Denise in Michigan asks on our
Web. She says, "Is Eckhart perfect? Eckhart, you seem to be almost perfect, although I know nobody
is. Do you ever yell, do you ever get angry or feel sad?"
not perfect because the form cannot be perfect. Every form by the very fact that it has form is one
thing, but not the other. So, whole, yes. I feel I'm aligned with something far greater than the little
person. And that is where I rest and that is where inspiration comes from, where the teaching arises. It
is presence. And it is notit goes far beyond this little person. This little person is insignificant. It
doesn't matter very much to me. So this, I don't look for perfection. I don't look for perfection in
myself because that would be total frustration. I do things that people perhaps would regard as not
perfect.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm waiting to hear.
a glass of wine. I drinkI like my glass of wine occasionally. I drink coffee at Starbucks almost every
day. And sometimes people come up to me and say, "You're drinking coffee? You shouldn't be
drinking coffee, what do you need coffee for?" I say, "Why not? I enjoy it." So I enjoy all kinds of
things. I don't have many negative emotions. I can't think the last time I even had a negative emotion,
but it's possible. Perhaps, I remember maybe some years ago, yes, I was watching and people were
mistreating an animal, and I suddenly felt anger. So it can happen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what did you do when you felt the anger? I just did a show on
puppy mills, it made me angry too. So what did you do with that anger? Did you say, "Oh, I'm feeling
anger." You notice the anger.
Page 35 of 39
And the situation somebody else interfered with that very moment, otherwise I would already taken
steps towards stopping it. And so the anger was there, I felt it, and it was in my system for a couple
minutes as a vibrational, intense vibration in the body, and then it's dissipated. I let it go like the
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you don't just, like, little things don't upset you ever.
no, no. I've let go, I had so much of that in the past, so much suffering with all kinds of little things, it's
not worth it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I never understand this because I'm not, you know, I don't get
triggered by, you know, automobiles, or driving, or stuff, I never understand the people, the road rage.
That's pain-body, right?
don'tyes, and the continuous
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I never understand why not getting in anot being led in a line or being
cut off, why that would cause you to be so crazy.
don't understand it either, but for many people that is somethingthey personalize the traffic. So it's
an egoic phenomenon. So when somebody does something, they regard it as a personal insult to them,
to their dignity or whatever.
of course, if it were
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They personalize the traffic. That's interesting. That's good.
wouldn't perhaps do it with the weather, if some hail
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When it rains, yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If hail
or rain hits your windscreen, then you wouldperhaps you wouldn't get angry, but if a driver cuts
across, then you suddenly get angry, but it's the same thing. It's just an energy field cutting across.
Page 36 of 39
Why personalize it? And I'm amazed that people suffer so much stress in traffic because if you don't
react, then there's no stress. If you don't personalize other drivers
if they had some personal disagreement with you, it's nothing to do with you. They don't even know
you.
don't personalize things, it's actually quite stress free.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or you get struck in traffic and you getpeople get so frustrated getting
stuck in traffic.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know.
that can be a wonderful meditation. You can't move, why not be in the body, feel the intense aliveness
in your energy field, and be there; enjoy it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody who's listening has ever been stuck in traffic, you now,
after reading the book you know how ridiculous it is to be upset that you're struck in traffic because
there's nothing you can do to change it. So just be with it.
wonderful opportunity for acceptance and surrender. And a wonderful opportunity for learning
dysfunction if you observe you are not accepting and surrendering, then you cannot observe how
dysfunction arises.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love the way you answered that question from Denise in Michigan.
You say you're perfect, but you're whole.
So sometimes people on the spiritual path, they look for some kind of perfection; they have an image
of how a perfect evolved spiritual human being behaves, and then they try to conform to that image. It
doesn't work. It reallyaccept your own limitations, accept your imperfections.
Page 37 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Do you have no attachment to, I mean, the way you even described your
body. I loved last week, toward the end of our webcast, I asked you if you had any fear of dying. And I
said this later to some friends, I've never talked to anybody to whom I've asked that question, and there
was such definitive resoluteness about it. How you were just, like, I really believed you when you said
you had no fear. I really believed you when you had no fear of death. And you have no attachment to
anything? Like, do you live in a nice house? Do you like nice things?

yes, yes. I like nice things. Now, for many years I lived on a minimum because for many years I didn't
have a regular job. I was just doing occasional counseling and occasional little workshops. So, for
many years, I lived on very, very little, and I enjoyed that. Later on, I realized, "Oh, I must've lived for
all those years below the poverty level." But I didn't feel that at the time. I didn't regard myself as poor.
I enjoyed every moment of it. And then, now I have relative wealth, especially compared to that time,
and I'm actually enjoying that too. I buy some nice furniture sometimes and enjoy it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You like nice sheets? I like nice sheets.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or do you care?

Well, I can sleep in any, but I like nice things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you're not attached to them.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not,
no, no. I'm not attached. I enjoy having space around so that you don't have to listen to the neighbors'
noise. That is quite nice. Perhaps the greatest thing money can buy is space around you. But if you
don't have it, and if you have to live with neighbors' noise, it's a great opportunity for surrenderingor
for telling them to shut up.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Before we go I wanted to have you tell everyone about an upcoming
well, I want to tell you about an upcoming Oprah show. Do you want to summarize? I guess you just
basically did.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To break free of it, lose the identification.
Page 38 of 39
that's it. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm really excited about the next chapter because the next chapter is
"Finding Who You Truly Are." And I would say, bring a friend to the webcast next week. Come and
bring a friend because, even if you haven't read the rest of the book, you can start, really, on page 185
with "Finding Who You Truly Are," and then work your way backwards. It's going to be so exciting.
love it too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love it too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, I love it when you love it. I love it. It's going to be so exciting. Also,
everybody, listen. I want to tell you about an upcoming Oprah show we're doing this Wednesday; an
entire hour on "A New Earth" that's going to air on our show, my show this Wednesday, April 9th, in
the United States, and in Canada, and the rest of the world as soon as we can get it to our international
affiliates for those of you, Mubeena in Dubai. We'll be talking to people who had a big and little
transformation in their lives. It's a powerful hour, and something I think you'll want to see. If you've
been trying to talk to talk to your friends about this or people in your home about this, that's the show
that they should watch. I want to encourage you to have them watch that and bring a friend to next
week's webcast to find out who you truly are. Again, Eckhart and I thank you all for joining us around
the world. The sixth class will be available on demand tomorrow for free here on Oprah.com. And if
you want to download or watch any of our classes, you can do that also tomorrow at Oprah.com and
iTunes. It's free. Thanks to Nature Made Softgel vitamins, it's free. And also tomorrow we'll have
special bonus materials for you on Oprah.com and iTunes. Audio meditations read by Eckhart's
partner, Kim Eng. You can listen to them on your computer or download them and take them to go.
Don't forget to update your workbook. Get ready for next week's class, "Finding Out Who You Truly
Are." If you're not who you think you are, well then who are you? We're going to talk about that. It's
going to be so exciting next week. Again, I thank you.
you, everybody.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. See you in class next week. Goodnight.

Goodnight.
Page 39 of 39
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, hi. Welcome everybody, welcome to class seven of our New Earth
Web series with author Eckhart Tolle. I want to thank our students from every corner of the world who
are joining us live on this journey of discovery. I truly believe that as each one of us becomes more
awake and aware in our own lives, so will our family and everyone we encounter, our communities
and our countries and, eventually, our world. And so Eckhart Tolle and I welcome you once again to
yet another lesson. Chapter 7, my favorite chapter thus far. Before we get started, we're going to have a
moment of silence, and you're going to lead us into that moment of silence, yes?
We're already getting used to having moments of silence to start with. And I'll introduce the moment of
silence today with a short meditation passage taken from The Power of Now. And as I read this short
passage, our viewers should already able to become still as they listen. And after I've read it, we'll be
still for just half a minute or so. So here we go. It's all about entering the present moment fully. And
that begins with using your senses fully. Be where you are. Look around. Just look, don't interpret, be
aware of the silent presence of each thing. Be aware of the space that allows everything to be. Listen to
the sounds. Don't judge them. Listen to the silence underneath the sounds. Touch something, anything,
and feel and acknowledge its being. Observe the rhythm of your breathing, feel the air flowing in and
out, feel the life energy inside your body. Allow everything to be within and without. Allow the is-ness
of all things. Move deeply into the now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's great. That's great. All right, everybody, tonight we're discussing
Chapter 7, finding who you truly are, which I know is the reason why so many of you picked up this
book in the first place because when I first announced it I was reading the subtitle, that the book is, A
New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose. And going on the message boards and so many people
were saying, "I hope this book helps me discover my purpose, I hope this book allows me to find who I
am." Well, if you're ready, tonight's your night. Let's start with an overview of what this chapter is
really about. You say that it is about; you begin with "know thyself." Chapter 7 starts with those two
words that you say are inscribed above the entrance of a famous Greek temple, you say on page 186.
"What those words imply is this: Before you ask any other question, first ask the fundamental question
of your life: Who am I?" And then you say on page 189 that, "You're not the ego, so when you become
aware of the ego in you, it does not mean who you areit means who you know who you are not. But
it is through knowing who you are not that the greatest obstacle to truly knowing yourself is removed."
So let's start off with these two questions. Who aren't I? And who am I?
of course, the best starting point is the first question.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Who aren't I?
Page 1 of 46
Because what is left when you realizeand it's usually a process for most people, realizing who you
are not, letting go of identification with things and so onwhen you realize who you are not, then
suddenly who you are becomes revealed to you. And who you are cannot easily be put into words
because if it could, then it could be answered in one simple sentence and then everybody could repeat
it and believe that they know who they are. So we start with knowing who you are not, and that begins
for people sometimes with loss, where they lose something valuable they had identified with or death
comes into their lives, some kind of breakdown or disaster happens. Sometimes, those people
suddenly...
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Awaken.

Awaken. Something has been taken away from them that they had identified with for many years that
had become part of their sense of self. And if something very fundamental that has been part of your
sense of self is removeddeath, loss, collapse.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even if it's a person, a human being who you loved.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If

could be somebody, yes, it could be somebody close to you who dies. Then, of course, at first, it leads
to enormous suffering, and you feel as if part of you had died also. And for some people that happens
even if they lose possessions because they were so identified with their possessions that when their
possessions are removed, they feel, "There's nothing left of me." Another related to possessions is
social position. If people fall from high, some high social positionthere's a scandal, it happens all the
time in the news.
mentioning any names.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, don't. You don't have to.
then these people can be extremely painful if they had become totally identified with either their
possessions or their social position, and they're suddenly faced with a kind of huge emptiness in their
lives. And the question arises, "I'm nobody anymore." And this is the point, a decisive point is reached
there where they can either continue to resist and suffer, resist what has happened internally, complain
about it, tell themselves story about it, how it's all collapsed, or they can suddenly come to a point of
acceptance of what happened and acceptance of the present moment, so the thing that was so important
in their lives actually left behind. I sometimes compare it to, if you look at a person's life, it's a
Page 2 of 46
tapestry, consists of all kinds of things that one identifies with. And when a great loss happens, it's
almost as if, suddenly, "There's a huge hole in that tapestry of my life."
that is painful when you identify with a tapestry. But behind the tapestry, there's a light that shines
through because without that light, there won't be anything at all. That's why you can even see your
life. Without the light of consciousness, nothing would be.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Behind the tapestry, there's a light there.
using a kind of analogy. So when you don't resist, this hole that has suddenly appeared in this tapestry
of your life, then there's a light that shines through thenand I'm using it as an analogythere's
suddenly a peace that comes when the emptiness that is left behind by the form that has dissolved is
not resisted internally. And through that empty space there comes what the Bible calls "the peace that
passes all understanding." Because you can't explain suddenlyand people have reported that this has
happened to them, they lost, sometimes in some cases, everything, they suffered at first and then
suddenly an inner shift happened. They accept it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And this also happens when you are grieving somebody that you loved.
Isn't it true?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because when you come to understand fully who you are, it doesn't
mean that you will no longer be saddened when you lose loved ones. But you will also, when you
become conscious, you then understand that they have just moved from form to formless and that the
formless can have an easier way to come through now even more strongly than it did in the form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you allow yourself to be with it and to see it and to experience it.
What you just said, an example, I was talking to a woman who lost her son. He had an illness, he was
about 28, I believe, and she was sitting next to him at his death bed. And the moment hejust a few
minutes before he died and just after he diedshe could sense an enormous peace descending upon the
room and filling the whole room, and she could feel that there was a sacred presence in the room in the
moment of death. So she had totally surrendered to that. And it's very painful, it's even more painful
for a parent to have to witness a child's death than the other way around, and so shethat was the most
Page 3 of 46
sacred moment in her life. And that lasted for about 10 minutes. And after 10 minutes, her mind came
in, and, suddenly, she started crying and protesting.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because the mind wants the situation to be different.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The mind wants you alive again in the physical body or the mind wants
the thing back that I have lost.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The job, the position, the whatever. I think it's harder, though, when it
comes to loved ones because there is a connection there. And there is, you know, nobody knows what
happens, except maybe you, when we die. And so there's this feeling that, you know, "I have lost
someone." Is that feeling selfishness?
It's a normal feeling because there was, even if you truly love somebody, of course, what you love in
the other person is deeper than the form, the external form of that person, nevertheless, there's always a
little biteven true lovethere's a little bit of attachment to the form also. Because the light comes
through the form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The light comes through the form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. Let's go here to page 186, everybody. This is one of my
favorite things. I have a cold, so if I look I'm sucking on a cough drop, I am. "Unconscious people
and many remain unconscious, trapped in their egos throughout their liveswill quickly tell you who
they are, their name, their occupation, their personal history, the shape or state of their body, and
whatever they identify with. Others appear to be more evolved because they think of themselves as an
immortal soul or divine spirit. But do they really know themselves, or have they just added some
spiritual-sounding concepts to the content of their mind? Knowing yourself goes far deeper than the
adoption of a set of ideas or beliefs. Spiritual ideas and beliefs may at best be helpful pointers, but in
themselves they rarely have the power to dislodge the more firmly established core concepts of who
you think you are, which are part of the conditioning of the human mind." This is my favorite in this
chapter. One of my favorites. I have three stars, then another star when I read it a second time, another
star. "Knowing yourself deeply has nothing to do with whatever ideas are floating around in your
mind. Knowing yourself is to be rooted in Being, instead of lost in your mind."
Page 4 of 46
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That was beautifully written.
And so I mentioned that because some people identifiedmany people identified with external things.
You mentioned, I believe, a week or two ago that somebody mentioned to you that they suddenly
realized that they are not their car.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They're not their car.
the beginning early stage of disidentification. But it's good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But we do think we are and that's where you wrote the whole chapter.
We do think we are our roles, you know?
our roles.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because a lot of people have important roles; roles as parents.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And roles in important positions that affect a lot of people's lives, and
people think that they are their roles and they identify with their status in the world and what they have
achieved.
right. And, of course, it's a question of finding a balance of honoring the role that'sof honoring the
function that you have in this world, so that's fine. You have to do whatever you're doing. You fulfill
your function as mother or father or in some other capacitysome public function, business function,
whatever it is. So to honor the function, without becoming totally identified with the function so that
always there's still a human being there, not just a function.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, "Knowing yourself deeply has nothing to do with whatever ideas are
floating around in your mind." Meaning, knowing yourself deeply has nothing to do with me being on
television every day speaking to people. And even maybe doing a good job at itactually doing a
good job at it. And all the great jobs that everybody else is doing who's listening. Those are
identifications.
Page 5 of 46
Identifications.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With form.
And also, but I mean, what you just read is people sometimes have certain ideas in their mind of who
they are. And they may be spiritual ideas: "I'm eternal spirit." That's, of course, wonderful, and
basically it is true, but do you truly know that? Because in order to truly know that you are moreyou
are much deeper than this formgoes far beyond holding certain concepts in your mind.

goesthis kind of knowing is a knowing that it goes beyond conceptual knowing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because if you really knew that, you would have a certain way of being
or living in the world that would manifest that in the world.

Exactly.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That would manifest your being in the world.
right. Andbutand particularly when situations happened, your reaction to a situation always tells
you where you are at as far as your level of consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is why a lot of people become annoyed with people who claim to
be so spiritual or so religious, who are intolerant of other people, intolerant of other ideas, self-
righteous, imposing their ideas on other people, because if you truly were what you say you are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So moving on to who you think you are. This is one of mybeautiful
statements here, on page 187, everybody. "If small things have the power to disturb you, then who you
think you are is exactly that: small. That will be your unconscious belief. What are the small things?
Ultimately all things are small things because all things are transient." And you say, "Your sense of
who you are determines what you perceive or is your needs and what matters to you in lifeand
whatever matters to you will have the power to upset and disturb you." So people all the time say,
"You know, I'm a peaceful person, I'm a loving person, I'm a kind person, I'm a generous person. I'm a
good person."
Page 6 of 46
and then the slightest thing goes wrong, and, suddenly, something else comes up, which is total
opposite of the good person. And so this is not the deep knowing of who you are. The deep knowing,
really, iswe use the word "know" here in a somewhat differently from the conventional way of using
the word "know." Usually, knowing is conceptual knowing.
analogy one could have, which is sometimes given, is with honey. You can examine the chemical
makeup of honey; you can examine the molecular structure of honey
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I can tell you it's sweet.
can write a PhD about honey, or you can write poems about honey, but if you never tasted honey, in
other words, if honey has not merged with you, then you don't really know honey. But the moment you
taste honey, then you know honey. And all the other stuff beforehand, even your PhD about honey if
you wrote one, is not knowing, not true knowing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Knowing. Yes.
only conceptual.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so, "to be rooted in being instead of lost in your mind." And what
does that mean to be rooted in being?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Again,
we're using words here to describe something that really is beyond words.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not describable.
just a little hint is, we always come back, of course, here in this teaching to the present moment.
Page 7 of 46
when your attention moves fully into the present moment and that moment you go deeper into being.
You could say that life has two dimensions: has the horizontal dimension of life; past, future, where
everything happens, and most people, their whole existence is on that horizontal surface dimension of
life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And they think that's their life.
think that's all there is. And, of course, then, life is quite a threatening place because you
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All that is transient. It changes.
transient. And you'veso you've never encountered the deeper dimension. This, by the way, isa few
people have interpreted the Christian crosswhich we mentioned, also, last time in a slightly different
contextthe Christian cross as being, showing the horizontal dimension of life, and suddenly it
intersects with the vertical dimension. It's also the dimension of the sacred.
so you enter the vertical dimension by beingbecoming present, by bringing your attention into the
now. So, then, because then past and future disappear from your consciousness. And at thisat this
moment, there's only the now, and suddenly a depth opens up within you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so what you've been saying throughout this book is that if you are
living your life in the horizontal; the past and the future, then you're not really living. You're making
enemies of this present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you're not truly living.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that when you saywhat I interpret what you say, "Knowing
yourself is to be rooted in being instead of lost in your mind," is to, in every encounterand I've been
doing this more and morebringing, coming back to your breath.
Page 8 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Coming back to the present moment in such a way that you are aware
and conscious of everything that's going on around you. And recognizing that you, you, you are that
awareness. That's who you are. You are the observer of all these things that are going on in the
horizontal plane of your life.

Exactly. So with the vertical comes the witnessing presence, the observer.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Yeah.

and that's the liberation. That'ssometimes this word "liberation" is used in spiritual context. That's
the liberation from the horizontal dimension, which Jesus calls "the world."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Do you knowmay I just share this? I know we have DEBBY
from the Netherlands on Skype, but maybe this will help illustrate this for you. A couple of years ago, I
wrote this in my magazine, for one of the "What I Know for Sures," I was walking with my friend Bob
Greene on New Year's day two years ago, on a mountain in Hawaii, and it was late evening, the sun
had set while we were walking, and the moon had come up, and the clouds had come in and come
down to the ground where we were. And, all of a sudden, we were walking, and we were surrounded
by the clouds. We were in the clouds on this mountain. And you could only see a sliver of the moon,
just a sliver of it. And I think Bob made a comment like, "It looks like the Dreamworks logo, the
moonit looks like you can go and sit up there with a fishing pole." And we were walking along, and
all of a sudden he turned around and he said, "Can you hear that?" And I stopped, and it was
completely utterly still. It was so still, it makes me want to weep thinking about it. It was so still that it
felt like all of time and no time. It felt like the Earth had stopped, that everything had stopped. So
much so that my very breath was so loud, I began to hold my breath because my breath was making
too much noise in the stillness. And, in that moment, I understood what you had written in Stillness
Speaks. That that is always there. That stillnessthere's not a bird, or a cricket, or a frog, or a car horn
or anything. That is always there.
that's also an inner dimension.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is the same as I. I am that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I am that stillness.
Page 9 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It was a powerful spiritual experience for me. I've never forgotten. I got
chills now for even thinking about it.
yes, that's wonderful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you recognize that is always there. When all the noise and, you
know, fireworks and all the things that go on on this mountain, that is always there.
Consciousness, we could call italthough labels are always limiting.
you could say that is pure consciousness. Before the consciousness becomes somethingbefore it's
born into a formit's there in its pristine, formless, timeless stage.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And in all things. That's why you were asking us to look around the
room; there is the stillness of all things. It's easier to determine in nature, though.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's harder with a table.
it's harder, and even harder with human beings because there's so much mind there. But, so nature
but even in so-called inanimate objects that you perhaps never even look at, haven't looked at for years
they've been around yousometimes it's wonderful to pick up an object and just be aware of its silent
presence, no matter what it is. Because whatever it is, ultimately, nothing is inanimate. And physicists
would agree because if you go deep into any so-called inanimate objects, you realize it's intensely
alive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's easy to do with trees, as I said earlier.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the essence is, what we're trying to get here, is that that is who
we are; that stillness.
Page 10 of 46
thethat's the essence of our being. That's who we are at the deepest level. This is the timeless
dimension within us.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you're saying that even when you pass on, when you
transition to another, to the formless, that stillnessthat consciousness, that spirit, whatever name you
choose to give itis still there.
That awareness is timeless. It's not subject to birth and death. As I said somewhere, the opposite of
the opposite oflife has no opposite. Usually people think in terms of life and death.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And death, yes.
really, death is the opposite of birth, it's not the opposite of life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Life,
in its essence, has no opposite. It's eternal.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Debby's from the Netherlands and lives in the city of Haarlem. She's
Skyping us from her family room there. I understand you have a question about a quote on page 187
about small things disturbing you. I love this quote. Go ahead, Deb.
DEBBY: Hi. Hi Oprah. Hi Eckhart.
DEBBY: My question is high sensitivity. I always considered myself a sensitive person, and that
means I'm easily overwhelmed by day-to-day life things that might be considered small. I've been
practicing staying in the moment with changing moments, but I think I need some more advice. Is high
sensitivity just a narrow egoic state? And do you have some tools that might help me to stop feeling so
overwhelmed by all these small things?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That does sound like a label you've given yourself.
DEBBY: Yeah, yeah. I know (inaudible).
Page 11 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I'm a highly sensitive individual." Yes.
yes, that is true. So that'sthat, also, we need to address. Can you give perhaps two or three examples
of what kind of things you are very sensitive to?
DEBBY: Well, a lot of things, but usually when I go into a shop, and there's loud music there, I just
want to run away. I have a hard time dealing with noise and chaos.
or being in a big city, traffic.
DEBBY: Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Well, I suggest that you experiment a little bit when these situations arise and you feel the same
thing happening again. And if you bring very alert attention to the situation, you realize that, really,
there are three levels to this situation. Level one is whatever it is that disturbs you, the external noise,
the chaos, the traffic, whatever it may be, so there's the thing that disturbs youlevel one. Level two,
there is your reaction to that thing that disturbs you, which could come as ait could be an almost
physical reaction. There's perhaps a contraction in your body. It could be also an emotional reaction of
frustration, irritation, anger, I assume, something like that, right? And also, in addition, the reaction
could be certain thoughts in your head about the situation that says, "I can't stand being here any
longer, it's dreadful, dreadful." This is level two. Now, be aware ofthat these two are, first of all,
separate. There is the triggering event or situation, and then there is your physical, emotional, mental
reaction to that. And, now what is level three? That is usually overlooked, but level three is where,
ultimately, freedom lies. Level three is your awareness of both these levels. You are aware that there is
the situation, the event, "There is my reactionphysically, emotional, mental. And there is myself
being the aware space for those two." And if you can bring your attention more to that deepest level,
then you realize changes will happen on the other two levels. If you recognize yourself, not as the
reacting entity that happens in you, but that's not who you are
you recognize yourself as the awareness that is aware of this thing that's happening out there, of the
thing that's reacting inside.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So it's just actually like, Debby, you're observing your own behavior.
You're observing your ego's behavior toward
Page 12 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're observing your ego's behavior.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): With
no attachment; just as pure observation, pure awareness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like, "Oh, isn't that interesting? I'm getting so upset over this guy
pulling in front of me."
Just being there as the awareness. And that's already the beginning of freedom. And then, increasingly,
you realize that you are that; you are not the entity that is reacting. And then, as Oprah said, then you
can let go of thinking for yourself, of having this concept of yourself as a highly sensitive person that
perhaps you mightit's not natural, nothing personal in thisyou may have become attached to
because you've lived with this concept of who you are for many years. So that's thethat's where
freedom lies.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But in addition to Debby's question, let's say, and for her, you know, she
labels herself or defines herself as a highly sensitive person, but let's say a person gets upset about
someone putting a dent in his or her car, or you spill coffee on your blouse right before an important
meeting, or your child gets sick or you get sick, are you saying that if we get upset about these things,
these kind of things that we don't know who we truly are?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If the
dimension of presence or awareness is missing, then you are lost in the reaction.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You think you are the reaction.
Then you become the reaction, and when you become the reaction, you don't know who you are.
It's a misperception of who you are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got that, right, Debby?
DEBBY: Yeah, yeah, I got it. Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I got it too.
DEBBY: It helped me a lot.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't it good when you get it?
Page 13 of 46
DEBBY: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it too. I got it too. And just detaching yourself, it doesn'tthat
doesn't change the situation.

doesn't immediately change the situation. But you do find that as you practice this, changes suddenly
appear. Changes sometimes first appear in the force that is behind your reaction that lessens. You still
react, but less; not as strongly. And, miraculously, you sometimes even find that if you totally
because, really, the awareness level is also part of the acceptance. You completely accept that, "At this
moment, this is what I feel, and this is what the external situation is," with complete acceptance. Even
changes often happen miraculously in the external situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I think acceptance of the situation, which you talk about in
"Power of Now," and also repeatedly in A New Earth, acceptance, nonresistance to the moment is one
of the most important things we can learn.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is whether or not you're facing a crisis whether you're facing
someone you've lost; a loved one, or whether you're, you know, in traffic and are a highly sensitive
person, nonaccepting what is in that moment is the most important.
And you can practice with little things because little things happen throughout the day that people feel
irritated about, angry about, protesting against, and so on. All with little things. You will have many
opportunities to practice, so it's a wonderful spiritual practice. So you use what youbefore you
wanted to get rid of, you use it as part of your spiritual practice, and, as a byproduct, you also
eventually get rid of it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Debby, thanks so much.
DEBBY: Okay, thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): From the Netherlands, thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everybody says they want peaceinner peace and peace on earth. On
page 188 you say, "If peace is really what you want, then you will choose peace. And if peace mattered
Page 14 of 46
to you more than anything else and if you truly knew yourself to be a spirit rather than a little me, you
would remain nonreactive and absolutely alert when confronted with challenging people or situations."
theso there'syou can either be reactive; act according to your the way you've reacted for many
years, your past conditioning, or you can become more alert when a challenging situation happens so
that you don't internally separate yourself from the situation. So that when you completely open
yourself to the situation, yet you bring an alertness to it, an alertness of presence. So you're facing the
situation totally with that state of alert presence. You're not reactive anymore. And if something needs
to be said or done in the situation, the words will suddenly come from that level of consciousness;
from that alert stillness. If you need to do something, then the right thing, the right doing will happen
instinctively orinstinctive is not the right wordintuitively the right thingyou will do the right
thing. So
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because it will be borne out of a sense of presence.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Out of
presence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or a sense of being, which is another word that we're using.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that's right.
so anywhenever you are upset about any situation, there's a line in the Course in Miracles that says,
"I am never upset for the reason I think."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "upset for the reason I think." Yes.

because when you're upset, you have lost yourself on the external levelwhat we call the horizontal
level.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But aren't there some things worth upsetting you? I mean there are
injustices in the world and there are horrible things happening all the time in the world that we should
be upset about.
Page 15 of 46
wouldn't say that we should be upset about. It is normal for people to be upset about this, but it is not
the most effective way of bringing about change.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. You can be upset all day long and nothing changes.

Nothing happens.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause people have been upset for years and things don't change.
Yes. People are upset about violence; they're upset about war, continuous war between nations, and so
on. It continues to happen. And you cannot fight against unconsciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, somebody e-mailed me today. They said they were upset about
13-year-old girls having to marry so-called ministers. Yeah.

Yes. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Upset about it, but being upset about it changes nothing.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, so
it's more powerful to face a situation and see, "This is how it is," and then see if action is possible.
"What is it that can be done?"
then there's no negativity in the action. But if you are resisting, if you are complaining about a situation
already, whatever you do, negativity flows into what you do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I just got something earlier, and the reason I'm thinking about this
cause a friend of mine had lost his brother and was saying that, you know, he was having such a hard
time letting go, and what I just had in this moment, something clicked for me, is that when people do
finally are allowed to move on from their grief, it's because they have come to the point of acceptance
that their loved one is gone.
Page 16 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you're saying is, in any situation, whether it's the loss of a
loved one, or loss of a position, or loss of whatever, that you're faced with, acceptance of the situation
and beginning to deal with what is going on now instead of wondering or worrying about what could
have been, should have been, might have been, changes the situation and the way we feel about it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that your pain and suffering is caused and stress is caused because
you refuse to accept the now.
You're not one with the now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. So tonight we're Skyping with a new study group in West
Hollywood, along with Borders, where we've been Skyping in Borders in Chicago. Now, we've moved
to Hollywood.
good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): At the famed Bodhi Tree.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, I
love that bookstore.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love that
there some yearsI gave a talk there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't you love that bookstore?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I do too. The Bodhi Tree is considered by many to have one of the best
book selections in Los Angeles for the mind, body and spirit. So, hi, everybody at Bodhi.
CROWD: Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): God, everybody looks so California-like. We can tell we're not in
Chicago, everybody's all bundled up. I Skyped Tenisha at the Bodhi Tree earlier today on The Oprah
Show, and she's back tonight with a question. Hi, Tenisha.
Page 17 of 46
TENISHA: Hi Oprah, how are you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good to see you. And your question?
TENISHA: Yes, my question has to do with reactivity. On page 208, Tolle says the more reactive
okay, "What is reactivity? Becoming addicted to reaction. The more reactive you, the more entangled
you become with form. The more identified with form, the stronger the ego." My question has to do
withI've always related being reactive to being sensitive. And being sensitive allows me to be very
passionate about things, allows me to connect with other people and be emotionally available to my
friends and family. So my question is, how can I retain sensitivity and be passionate about things and
keep that, but not allow my ego to get stronger?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Great question, Tenisha. Thank you.
thank you. Well, reaction may appear to be a sign of sensitivity, but actually reaction is not sensitive.
Reaction is a conditioned way of responding to a situation, and you are notall reaction really comes
from the past because it's part of the way in which you've been conditioned. And because it comes
from the past, it is never totally adequate to the present moment. So sensitivity is actually lost when
you're reactive, and true sensitivity comes when you are absolutely present in a situation and see, "This
is how it is," and you totally face the situation as it is. And when that comes, enormous sensitivity, and
you canwith that comes also intuition. It's only when you internally don't resist a situation, then the
intuitive faculties arise within you. As long as you internally resist a situationand reactivity's always
some form of resistanceas long as you internally resist, then the intuitive faculties cannot really
come in because you're acting out old conditioning. Intuition comes out of presence; out of the present
moment. So bringing presence to a situation, then that means you become absolutely sensitive. And
that's also a deeper aliveness and a deeper power than what looks like power and aliveness when you
observe somebody reacting. Sometimes it might look very passionate, but really they are acting out
their past conditioning; the ego is acting out. That's not true passion, it's the ego wanting this or that
from the situation; wanting to manipulate the situation, wanting to get something out of the situation,
whatever, but not being truly present. So it's only through presence that the true sensitivity is there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Tenisha.
TENISHA: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And all you Bodhi people. Thank you so much. The Bodhi Tree, love
that.
Page 18 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really, that's great. Continuing on with who we are because I know so
many people have this as a prominent question for themselves, you say on page 189, "Nobody can tell
you who you are. It would just be another concept, so it would not change you. Who you are requires
no belief. In fact, every belief is an obstacle." What does that mean?

means who you are has nothing to do with any thought that you might have about yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So does who you are have nothing to do with what you've done? So you
spend your life here doing all this work and working, working, working, working, making money,
taking care of your family, doing all the thing that people do, and that has nothing to do withand
then youat your funeral they read your, you know, words about you, and say this is who you are?
and then there's the gravestone, and on the gravestone there is the date of birth. And there is a one- or
two-inch dash, and then there's the date of your death. And the dash is, really, all your ambitions, and
your fears, and your drama, and your problemsthat's what's left on that level. So I'm not saying not
to honor the level of form, because that's what we're talking about; whatever you do in this life, this
horizontal level where we do things, where we have our functions and play roles, you honor that level
but realizing there is something more vital; there is something deeper than just that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Bridgette says, "Dear Oprah and Eckhart, Can you explain the
quote on page 192, 'But nothing you can find out about yourself is you. Nothing you can know about
you is you'?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So I'm
making a difference here between knowing yourself and knowing about yourself.
mention as an example, if you got to a conventional psychoanalyst, let's say, you will spend some years
examining the makeup of your conditioning, of your past, your childhood and so on. You find out
more and more about yourself; things that perhaps you hadn't seen clearly about your emotions, about
the makeup of your thoughts and so on.
Page 19 of 46
all that is knowing aboutit's to do with content.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "The
content of my life and the content of my mind, ultimately, because my life isI know it only as the
content of my mind." So that is knowing about yourself. And you can know thousands of facts about
yourself and your history and still not know who you are because that knowing has nothing to do with
this conceptual knowing with bits of information. It's the deeper knowing. I gave the analogy earlier of
the honey.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The honey.
can know about the honey.

you can taste the honey because, when you taste the honey, the honey becomes you; it merges with
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, that's right.
sense, knowing who you are in a nonconceptual way is being fully who you are, is being in touch with
that deeper level of being, wherethat you can only access in the present moment, the vertical
dimension.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Can I askwell, if you are reading this book and suddenly become to
understand or not reading this book and understand, as you say, many people say, "Well, I'm a spiritual
being, you know, I'm on my spiritual path."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As many people have said, you know, as they're readingas I'm reading
all of the message boards, which I love, by the way, keep them coming, they say, "Well, I've been on
this spiritual path for many years, or I'm a spiritual person." Aren't you just a little step closer thinking
you're a spiritual person, or is that another form of your ego saying, "I'm a spiritual person?"
Page 20 of 46
you have to
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because I've said for years, "I recognize I'm spirit."
that is
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Come fromcome from the greater spirit.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I can use the word, I am consciousness come out of the greater
consciousness that I call God.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or spirit that come out of a greater consciousnessspirit that I call God.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I recognize that. I know that intellectually.
So in that sense you can say intellectually that is a true statement.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but I also feel it deeply.
question is whether, and this isI know you do, but anythe question is whether you truly feel that as
a reality. And a way of finding out how deeply you truly know this is whenhow you react to
situations in your life and how you react to other people in your life. It's there that you find out whether
your belief that you are spirit, whether you truly know that or whether it's no more, as I put it, than an
idea floating around in your mind. Do you know it in the depths of your being? Because then the way
in which you deal with situations and people is very different.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. I've always believed that I really was God's child. That I was,
you know, come from, and as I've gotten older and could articulate it better, you know, I use other
ways of describing it, but I believe that I came from that which is God.
Page 21 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And was born of that, and so therefore, really have no real fears in the
world. I've always believed everything would be okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No matter what, I'm going to be okay because of that.
you can
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's more than a belief, actually.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): More
than a belief. You can sense that.

In some way that it's hard to describe, but you can sense that ultimately there isn't you and God. There
is a deep place where you and God merge; there's the oneness with that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I've just gotten that later in life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I used to think God was out there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eleanor lives in Boston, Massachusetts, and is Skyping us from a
friend's house. Hi, Eleanor.
ELEANOR: Hi Oprah, Hi Mr. Tolle.

Hello.
ELEANOR: This is such a great experience. I really thank you so much for it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. Your question is?
Page 22 of 46
ELEANOR: My question is, on page 192, you say, "You may not want to know yourself because you
are afraid of what you may find out." And my question's about letting go of your insecurities or what
you would call your ego. For many years now I've been handling, so to say, an eating disorder, and it's
pretty much beenit's consumed a great part of my identity; that's how I identify myself, and I feel
that causes a great lacking in me. And, in a way, I do want to left go, but then a great part of me just
wants to hold on to this identification of myself. And I guess my question is, what is this next step
from awakening to the fact that I should move on and acting upon that?
the deriving your sense of who you are from certain thoughts or mental images that you have about
yourself, and that's a normal identity that people have. They derive a sense of self from certain mental
images or thoughts they have about themselves, which they repeat to themselves, which they talk to
others about.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, it's what Debby was saying to us earlier from the Netherlands, "I'm
a very sensitive person; therefore, lots of things overwhelm me." Yes.
And that's alreadyon one level that is true, but if you become too identified with a label like that,
then that becomes a hindrance going beyond it. That's why you immediately said when she said that,
"Ah, there we have a label."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The label.
so there's a similar thing, perhaps, that happens to you, so it's really finding within yourself something
that is more powerful, more genuine, more truly who you are than any image that you have in your
mind. And we have to come back here toreally, the essence of this teaching, which is present
moment, you have to invite the present moment into your life as frequently as you can. You have to
make room for the present moment because it's only when you make room for the present moment that
these images and mental concepts about who you are do not operate. So when you become present
and I've already given hints about how to, little things you can do to become present. At the beginning
of our session today, we had this little meditation where we said, "Be aware of your sense perceptions,
touch things, look at things, listen to things without judging, without labeling," then the alertness rises.
The key is hereanother word for presence is the alertness. And so you become alert also within. You
feel the aliveness of your inner body. Rather than having a mental concept of who you are, you feel the
entire energy field, that which animates the physical form, and you are in touch with that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, and Eleanor, what I would sayadd to that is is that you haven't
done that enough because once you start to do that, when you get in touch with the inner body, when
you begin to feel the inner space, when you begin to feel the presence in being that is really you, you
realize you're bigger than your little self with an eating disorder. When you startand the reason why
Page 23 of 46
you're still attached to this idea of having an eating disorder is because that's as big as you know
yourself to be right now. And when you know yourself to be something more, you will choose to be
the something more and not this little me that has an eating disorder. That's how I see it.
that's it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's how I see it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's why you're clinging to it, cause you don't know who you are.
ELEANOR: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you don't know who you are.
ELEANOR: It's very difficult to move beyond that. I mean, I may, in my mind, understand it
intellectually that I'm greater than this issue.
ELEANOR: But it's hard.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not going toyou're not going to help yourself through your mind.
ELEANOR: Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what Eckhart is saying in this whole book. That real healing, real
everything, creativity, real joy, real presence in being comes from that space; the inner space of
consciousness or presence in being. And the reason why you're attached to the idea is because that
works for you. That works for you right now.
ELEANOR: It's very easy; it's safe.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it works for you because you like playing small right now. And so
maybe you're not ready. But what he just described for you is exactlyand it doesn't happen
overnight. It doesn't mean that, you know, tomorrow you're going to wake up and not have an issue.
It's slowly bringing more and more consciousness into your daily way of being that allows you
ELEANOR: It's a lot of effort, that's for sure.
Page 24 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I would say this Eleanor, I would say you're worth it.
ELEANOR: Thank you, thank you so much for this opportunity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I would say you're worth the effort.
ELEANOR: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. I want to move on to abundance, and there was a question
that I had earlier that you had on here about abundance, I love that question. But there's a lot in Chapter
7 about abundance and that we are not the little me that we think we are, you say on page 190.
"Whatever you think the world is withholding from you, you are withholding from the world. And you
are withholding it because deep down you think you're small and that you have nothing to give. Try
this for a couple of weeks and see how it changes your reality: Whatever you think people are
withholding from youpraise, appreciation, assistance, loving, care, and so ongive it to them." So is
abundanceI was lookingdo you have that question to put back here, the abundance question that
somebody had asked in e-mail? What's so great about this, I think, is that it's something people can do
every day right now, is to start to give that which you say you most want.
And it starts with recognizing external abundance. That if the act of recognition that there's external
abundanceand what that is we'll see in a secondis the act of recognition of external abundance
already brings out the abundance that is an essential part of your very being. So when you recognize
abundance withoutand what I'm suggesting there is to look atwalking past a store where there's a
display of fruit, apples, oranges, and you see the abundance and the aliveness that is there;
acknowledge it there. Abundance doesn't mean that you need to buy many things. You can buy or not
buy. But it's theyou see the abundance of water, rain falling from the sky; there's an abundance of
water. There's an abundance of aliveness. There's an abundance of joy in the dog that's going past you
there. And so to recognizeto see the abundance that surrounds you, even if you're very poor in the
eyes of the world, the abundance is always there around you, but you need to recognize it;
acknowledge it. And another word for that is "gratitude."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. I was going to say, that's why I've kept a gratitude journal for
years.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you keep a gratitude journal listingI do, the same, just five things in
the day that made you most gratefulwhat you start to notice is is that there are more things added to
your list, and you don't even have time to write them all.
Page 25 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you start to pay attention to the things. Okay. And you also
say, "Acknowledging the good that is already in your life is the foundation for all abundance."
And again, many people make that mistake because they believe that, "There is nothing good in my
life." And that's absurd. It means they are not present, they are trapped in certain stories in their head,
which tell them continuously that, "There is nothing good in my life." And if they only opened their
eyes and looked around, and if they smelled the air, saw the sunlight, the most abundant thing you can
see is the sun.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I think the most abundant thing you can have is your breath.
breath.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Come back to your breath.
beautiful, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, come back to the breath.

you can be with that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you can't think of anything to be grateful for, go to your breath.

Breath, or the aliveness in your hands and in your arms, to feel that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, the e-mail question from Rose Anita in Georgia was to ask you to
please explain what you mean by "abundance comes to those who already have."
Now, abundance, you need to recognize that as coming from within you. Abundance is not external
things that come to you that make you abundant. Abundant is the energy that flows out of you, out of
the being of who you are into this world. So the beginning ofyou initiate this process by recognizing
the abundance that's all around you externally.
Page 26 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Outflow determines inflow."
then it suddenly, the recognition already draws it out, you see?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I was going to say, isn't gratitude in itself an energy field that draws
more to you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't it its own vibrational frequency that draws more to you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what I interpreted you saying.
it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is that gratitude is its own energy field.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that when you acknowledge and are grateful for whatever you
have, when you can see and feel the gratitude, experience the gratitude in whatever you have, that
changes your vibrational frequencyliterally.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And allows more to be drawn to you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It
changes your entire reality. It changes the way in which you experience life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes it does.

changes your world. And so it'sif that's the only thing people remember, there are many things in
this book, but just if they want to change their lives, they're not happy with their lives, bring gratitude
into it, which is, of course, connected also to the present moment because it's only, "Here in this
momentwhat is it in this moment that I can be grateful for?"
Page 27 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Be grateful for.
then you suddenly say, "Oh, it's all that." There's alwaysit's miraculous if you truly look around and
sense and feel, it's miraculous. The entire universe is miraculous.
when you are so trapped in your thoughts that you don't see this anymore, then the entire universe
becomes dead to you and there's nothing new that ever arises.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, I was practicing this this weekend, I was saying to Eckhart
before we started that I was under the weather and had an obligation in New Orleans and wasn't able to
fulfill that commitment, and normally I would've just been beating myself up about it, cause I've never
had to cancel anything before, but I decided to be with the fact that I was sick. And I had one of the
happiest days of my life being sick in bed because I accepted it and was not fighting the fact that I
wasn't well. I thought, "I'm going to be with feeling badly, and I'm going to appreciate everything
about the day." So every cup of tea that Stedman brought me, I was happy. And happy that I was, you
know, I had clean sheets. I meanand happy that I could open the curtains and there was sun coming
through the window. Justand I just had the most happy time being sick in bed. Yeah. So that's what
you're talking about.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Being able to be grateful where you are.

Yes, very, very powerful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, if I hadn't read this book, I might not have been able to do that.
So it's been very helpful to me. And you say

And
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sorry.
You can be grateful for things that on the surface don't look so good. When you accept what is, you're
grateful whatever situation arises. Let's say your car breaks down and you have to change the tire in the
middle of the night, and even there you can say, "Okay," we come to this later in the book
Page 28 of 46

You begin sometimes, a so-called negative situationbegins with not resisting it.
so
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't you say in The Power of NowI just interrupted a thought.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But don't you say in The Power of Now that all stress comes from
resisting the present moment?
doesn't come from the situation, it comes from your thoughts about the situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because the tire needing to be changed by itself could not cause you to
be stressed.
there's noit just is as it is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It is as it is.
you can see that, then suddenly you move into that, and even there comes gratitude.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. So your stress is about wanting the moment to be different than
what it is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's whether it's a tire, losing your job, losing a loved one.

Yes.
Page 29 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And you sum this up, this abundance, by using a quote from Jesus
saying, "Give and will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over,
will be put into your lap." That is the truth, so help me. That is just the truth.
it's an amazing, amazing statement. And also, somewhere else Jesus talks about
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You must like Jesus, you talk about him a lot.
yes. There was a time when II was brought up as a Catholic and then I, for many years I wasn't
interested anymore, and then after I went through this inner shift, a couple of years afterward, I
happened to pick up the New Testament, and I happened to read the gospels, and I suddenly saw how
deep all this is, these statements.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Became more than doctrine for you.
Yes. And so Jesus somewhere else says, "I want you to have life in its fullness. I want you to have the
fullness of life." And that's a beautiful statement. And people sometimes don't realize what he means
by "the fullness of life" because, in our civilization particularly, the fullness of life means having as
many things as possible.
of course, I'm convinced that Jesus was not talking about shopping malls.

Because if he was talking about shopping malls, then the kingdom of heaven has already arrived and
it's in the shopping malls. So he was not talking about many, many things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eckhart made a joke, y'all. Eckhart made a funny.

was talking about something that is within you, the fullness of life is a dimension within you. And he
went, "I want you to be in touch with that dimension within you."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you're absolutely right. If you get nothing else from this book, if
you can get that, then your life will change.
Page 30 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your life will change.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "And abundance comes only to those who already have it," page 192. "It
sounds almost unfair, but of course it isn't. It is a universal law. Both abundance and scarcity are inner
states that manifest as your reality. Jesus put it like this: 'For to the one who has, more will be given,
and from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.'" And he's not talking about
things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): He's talking about your inner state of gratitude for what you already
have.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And your life will change. Laura from Baltimore is on the line and has a
question for us. Laura?
LAURA: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
LAURA: Thank you so much for this opportunity. You've both been great spiritual teachers for me,
and I'm just so grateful.
LAURA: My question is, before reading this book, I was someone who usually suppressed my
emotions. And, on page 208, you talk about bringing an inner yes to whatever form that the now takes.
So now, when I have the emotional of sadness arise, I try to apply this principle. In the past, I would
have said no to the emotion and suppressed it, but now I worry that by saying yes to this emotion, it's
just the ego tricking me into feeding the pain-body. How can I be sure that emoting is not actually
strengthening my ego?
Page 31 of 46
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Right,
good question. So when you fully allow an emotion, it implies that you are there as the awarenessthe
witnessing presencecause it's only from that space that you can say that, "This is what I feel, and
here it is." It's part of the is-ness of this moment. And if you do that, the emotion cannot rise up into
your mind and control your thinking. In other words, it does not become part of ego, it's only if the
emotion rises up into your mind and then your mind starts to think along the lines of that particular
emotion, and thereby feeding more energy to the very same emotion, that means you are strengthening
that emotion, and it's becoming part of ego. But if you can just look at the emotion and allow it to be.
Then the emotion is not going to feed on your thoughts anymore. So and then you will actually find
when you allow an emotion to be, it subsides fairly quickly, and it's not part of the ego. This practice is
going beyond emotion without repressing them.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got that, Laura?
LAURA: Yes, thank you so much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. I love that, I love that. Tell us the story of the Zen master on
199, the one who said, "Is that so?" I mean I think you have to be a Zen master practically to have that
kind of reaction to everything in life, you know?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because when somebody attacks you, you know, that's a thing I still
have to work on because I live in a world where people write things that are not true all the time.
Somebody's working on a biography of me now, unauthorized. So I know it's going to be lots of things
in there that are not true. And so I've gotten better at it, and I know everybody experiences it on one
level or another. For me, it's people saying things about me that are not true.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That causes me to show myself as a small person. The little me comes
out, and I'm, like, "That's not true." And so this Zen master who is able to say, when he's being accused
of, you know, doing something horrible to this girl, "Is that so?" Who can do that?
very extreme form of being one with the present moment. This is, I believeshould I tell the story?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, please do.

there was a Zen master, he was highly regarded and he wasas a spiritual teacher, had a very good
reputation. And, one day, neighbors of his came to him and said, "Our daughter is pregnant, and you
Page 32 of 46
remember, she came to see you about some advice some time ago, and she has now confessed to us
that you are father of this baby that's going to be born out to our 17-year-old daughter." And, of course,
they didn't tell him this in the way that I'm telling it to you, they were very angry.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is this a true story?

believe it is.

there was an enormous anger in this situation, you can imagine, and the Zen master was listening to
them as they were telling them that he had fathered this child. He was listening in that Zen state of
open alert attention like this. And then when they had finished their story, "You are the father of this
child." And he said, "Is that so?" "Yes," he said. And then, "We are goingwhen the child is born, you
are going to look after the baby because you are responsible. "Is that so?" And so when the baby was
born, they brought the child over to him. "Now, you look after the baby, it's not ours, you are
responsible." And he accepted the baby, and the word got around that he had fathered a child by a 17-
year-old girl. He lost his reputation, no one came to see him anymore.

was totally indifferent to this because he was only responding to the needs of the present moment. So
he started looking after the baby. And so he spent about a year looking after the baby and, in the
meantime, the mother of the baby grew up a little bit more, and suddenly she confessed to her parents
that the Zen master was not the father. She just didn't want to tell them that it was the boy who works
in the butcher's, who was the father. And, of course, the parents got extremely upset, and they came
running to the Zen master and said, "She's just told us that you are not the father." And he said, "Is that
so?" "Yes, and so canwe would like our baby back, please." And so he handed the baby over.
There's was allit's the story that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're supposed to be in the Zen-dom kingdom or something.

Continuousit's a story that shows an extreme example of absolute nonresistance and the good that
comes because the baby was being looked after with loving care for a whole year by the Zen master.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But why wouldn't the Zen master, okay, cause he's a Zen master, is that
the level that you are saying that we should be striving? Well, I know you're not saying we should do
anything.
Page 33 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We should do whatever we want to do.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It is

not necessary. That is only to exemplify
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause I would be, "It is not true. It's not true." Yeah.

you can say, "No, I'm not the father. It's not true. I'm not the father." So you can say it in one way that
is very reactive, and that would be the normal way.

you can say it in a way that is free of reaction and, nevertheless, states the truth.

you're still surrendered inside.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're
still accepting that thesethis is where they are at; this is what they believe, and simply you say, "This
is not the case. I am not the father."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bottom line is, you're saying don't get pulled into the drama.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't get pulled into the drama.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): State your case, state the facts without allowing your ego to be pulled
into the drama of it.
Page 34 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then be able to move on.
right.
it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. We've gotis it Fatema on the line from Kuwait? Hello, Fatema?
FATEMA: Hello?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello.
FATEMA: Hi, Oprah.
FATEMA: Hi, Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nice to see youor hearing you. Hi.
FATEMA: Can you hear me?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes we can. Go ahead with your question.
FATEMA: Okay, great. Since I used to identifying our self with what we have and what we do, I
would like to ask you, Oprah and Eckhart, to identify yourself, does that means or any form of
identification so other people can get a better understanding of who they are and what you mention on
page 186?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, Eckhart, go right ahead and do that.
sound wasn't so good.
Page 35 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She was saying, since we're so accustomed to identifying ourselves
through labels and what we do, she would like for you and II would like for youto identify
yourself without using those labels of identification so that everybody listening can get a better idea,
then, of how then do you describe yourself?
So we're talking about being with another person, when you identify yourself, you're identifying to
another person. So there's a situation where you meet somebody, perhaps somebody you don't know
yet. So you can be there as an ego entity, in which case you would immediately explain your
achievements, or you would explain your sufferings or your diseases that you identify with or
whatever.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sometimes people do it this way, which annoys me, they'll say, "What
school did you go to?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's immediately to say whether or not you're in the category.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "What school did you go to?"
So people, they wantas the mind, that's what the human mind doesthey want to be able to classify
you, they want to be able to find out where they can put you in theirso they're asking questions about
that, but you don't need to be drawn into that. And realize that as youand this is a very, very
important thing
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so let's say we didn't know you, and you're at a gathering where
people don't know you and I come up and introduce myself, and I say, "Hello, I'm Oprah. And I'm here
with a convention, and I'myou know, I sold so many pharmaceuticals, and I didI've got three kids,
I live in Oregon, whatever." How would you then describe yourself?
perhaps I would not use that many words, but some words might be there. I wouldn't say, "I am a
formless spirit" or anything like that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You wouldn't do that? "Hello, I am formless spirit, Eckhart."
Page 36 of 46
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I once
asked somebodyI met somebody at a reunion, and they knew that I had already written The Power of
Now, so I was a spiritual teacher, and so I asked, for some reason we had a conversation and I asked,
"How old are you?" And he said, "I was never born." He really wanted to teach me a lesson.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, boy.

you can be quite normal in your interaction, but more important is on a sensing level, you are there as a
field of aware presence. And in an interaction with another human being, what matters is not so much
the words that are being said, there's a deeper level of the awareness that arises, the fieldI call it the
field of awareness that arises between two human beingsthe field of presence that arises when those
human beings or even just one of them is not totally identified with their thinking mind of the ego, then
I can be there as a conscious presence. Right now, as I sit here, I canI'm here as the conscience
presence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you wouldn't say, "I'm Eckhart, formless spirit."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You would just say, "I'm Eckhart."

Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I'm Eckhart."

Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And if they say, "Whoa, hey, what do you do?"
then I give conventional answers: I am a writer. And they ask, "What do you write about?" And then
depending onI kind of sense where they are at, whether it's a genuine question and they truly want to
know or whether it's a questionwhen I come into the States from Canada every week, they ask me
"What do you do?" And then I say, "I'm a writer." And then they ask, "What do you write about?" And
then I'm not going to give a deep answer because they don't want a deep answer.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. They're not really interested.
Page 37 of 46
So I give conventional answers. And yet, in every human interaction, even such an interaction as this,
when the
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Fatema.

Always what isyou need to be able to sense that there is a presence underneath whatever you are
saying.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Feel
your own presence underneath it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's what we're going to be talking about next week is to be able
to bringthat is our role in this lifetime is to bring that sense of presence, who you really are, not the
small little self that is, you know, has eating disorders, or shops too much, or all the other things that
we define asin our horizontal lives with ourselves
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But to bring that presence into your active life.
right, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is our goal. Yes.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right, let's talk about the joy of being. "Unhappiness or negativity is
a disease on our planet. What pollution on the outer level is negativity," page 213, everybody. "What
pollution on the outer level is negativity on the inner. It is everywhere. Not in just places where people
don't have enough," I love this, "but even more so where they have more than enough. The affluent
world is even more deeply identified with form, more lost in content, more trapped in ego."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was interesting.
Page 38 of 46
Sometimes, you see when you visit certain places where people have relatively little, often you see
more happy faces and radiant faces than in our rich society.
passage is about negativity, and there's an enormous amount of negativity in the collective energy field
of our planet, but it is generated by individuals. So it's everybody's task to be alert so that when the
negativity arises within them, they recognize it and then ask themselves whether that is what they
choose. When you recognize it, you can be there as the presence, and you have a choice. Is negativity
ever the optimum way of dealing with any situation? And if you look closely, you'll see it never is a
good way of dealing with any situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, you say on page 214, "The joy of Being, which is the only true
happiness, cannot come to you through any form, possession, achievement, person, or event." That
means people who think, "I'm with you, and I love you, and you're going to bring me joy," cannot.
Yes. You either are joy or you're not.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. "through anything that happens. That joy cannot come to you
ever. It emanates from the formless dimension within you, from consciousness itself and thus is one
with who you are."
comes from within and not from without. People conventionally expect it to come to them from
without, and then it usually doesn't because you need to discover it in yourself first. And this is why,
when you try to manifest things in your life, which is a fine thing to do, but the vital question is, "Have
you, first of all, already come to that place of fullness and joy within yourself right now? Have you
found a right relationship with the present moment?" If you haven'tbecause that's where it resides.
It's only by having a right relationship with the present moment that the joy can arise from within you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You talk about that on 210 when you say, "To awaken within the dream
is our purpose now. When we are awake with the dream, the ego-created earth-drama comes to an end
and more benign and wondrous dream arises. This is the new earth." Also, let's go to page 215,
everybody. The top of 215 you talk about "A powerful spiritual practice is consciously to allow the
diminishment of ego." Because what we've been learning through A New Earth is that most of us have,
until reading this book, believed we were our egos, believed we were, as Eckhart has said earlier in
tonight, we believe we were our horizontal life without the vertical. We believe we were our past, we
believe we are what we're going to do and what we have done. And the now was always just a sort of
means to an end.
Page 39 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so you say, "A powerful spiritual practice is consciously to allow
the diminishment of ego when it happens without attempting to restore the ego. I recommend that you
experiment with this from time to time. For example, when someone criticizes you, blames you, or
calls you names" I got to tell you, it's hard to say, "Is that so?" "Instead of immediately retaliating or
defending yourselfdo nothing. Allow the self-image to remain diminished and become alert to what
that feels like deep inside you." So what's that supposed to do for us?
it's notI'm not saying in each case you should do that. Experiment with this from time to time,
particularly when nothing depends on that situation, so you don't have to explain something so that a
situation can be put right or whatever. Somebody just calls you, we talked about it the other day
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Somebody cuts you off in traffic?
So that would be a good practice because it's totally pointless to retaliate.

makes no sense whatsoever. So, but the retaliation when somebody calls you names in traffic or
whatever.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or does something to upset you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Try doing nothing.
the retaliation is automatic and unconscious because it comes from the ego. Because when somebody
calls you stupid, for example, or somebody calls you idiot, it injures the ego. It hurts the ego
tremendously.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's the ego that's being injured, not you.
you, it's nothingbecause deep down you know that it's not you, it's just the ego image of "who I think
I am."
Page 40 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Deep down youwell, deep down you know it's not you, but if you are
a person who lives unconsciously, if you live out of your ego, you think it's you.
And, immediately, the ego will go into what I call instant self-repair mechanism. And this instant self-
repair mechanism is totally unconscious, automatic.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Says, "I am not stupid."
it will call the other person something worse than stupid. And, by that, the ego believes it has repaired
itself. And, on that level, it has. So this person has taken away something from you, the imaginary ego,
and then you take something away from that other person. That's how the egos work. And then, of
course it's probably not the end because the other person's going to retaliate again.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, and now you're in it.
whole madness starts.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now you're in the drama.
So this is a good example where you can practice being nonreactive. So when somebody calls you
something, remain totally
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say when that happens, just do it for a few seconds, it may feel
uncomfortable, as it will, just to keep your mouth shut.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I've had that this week; just keep your mouth shut. It's hard. It feels like
you've shrunk in size momentarily. "Then you may sense an inner spaciousness that feels intensely
alive. You haven't been diminished at all. In fact, you have expanded." What do you mean by that?
so somebodyyou are notwhat you are not defending is your egoic identity, the image identity. And
suddenly that has become diminished by somebody, by calling you stupid, for example. This entity has
become diminishedyou don't resist the diminishment, so it has become smaller, so to speak. And
therefore, suddenly something that is deeper than that can suddenly come through because the ego has
shrunk in size.
Page 41 of 46
the ego doesn't like that.
it's a wonderful experiment when you allow the ego to shrink, and then suddenly you feel there is a
power underneath that that's far greater than the ego.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it shrinks every time you become aware of it.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even when you don't do what you're supposed to do?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, I like this question from Suhad in Clifton, New Jersey. "How can
we use the high-quality no that you talk about on page 216 in our lives? Can you please provide us
with real-life examples? 216; high-quality no. What did you mean by high-quality no?

some cases sometimes people misunderstand when I say, "Say yes to the present moment." They
believe, then, whenever somebody asks you something, you have to say yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're supposed to say yes. Yeah.
when I say, "Say yes to the present moment," it's to do with an inner, an inner state of consciousness
that is open to what is; that does not resist what is. It does not necessarily mean that every time that
somebody asks you something, you say yes. So let's say a person comes to you, you've known him,
you've already lent him money five times; he's never returned it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or two, two is enough.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Two
is enough. And so he says, "I need another $500 now." And then you perhapsthis may be a good
opportunity and occasion where you can use a high-quality no that is not reactive and does not make
Page 42 of 46
that person wrong and say, becomes angry and, or shout at him and say, "You are dishonest; you
haven't returned my money. And I'm not giving you a penny more." This is a low-quality no.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Low-quality no.

high-quality no is to say...
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Who do you think you are?" All that stuff.
that kind. Stories in order to be wrong.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Storiesyes, "I've given you money so many times before."
And then you make yourself into a victim.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's all
part of
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or make yourself into the great person who's been so benevolent.
Whatever the egoic is. So the high-quality no is to simply state, "Well, I've already given you that
money twice, and you haven't returned it yet, so I won't give you it anymore. You have to return my
money first. I'm not going to give you" Can you sense that there's no negativity. You simply state
clearly, "This is what I'm going to do or not do. I won't give you anymore because you haven't returned
that."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That happened to me recently. Somebody was asking me for
money, and just said, "No, I won't do that." And no emotion attached to it at all. All right, I just want to
say here thatI love this on 220. "What you see, hear, feel, touch, or think about is only one half of
reality, so to speak. It is form. In the teaching of Jesus, it is simply called 'the world,' and the other
dimension is 'the kingdom of heaven' or 'eternal life.'" Then toward the bottom of the page, second-to-
the-last paragraph you say, "The collective disease of humanity is that people are so engrossed in what
happens, so hypnotized by the world of fluctuating forms, so absorbed in the content of their lives, they
have forgotten the essence that which is beyond content, beyond form, beyond thought. They're so
consumed by time that they have forgotten eternity, which is their origin, their home, their destiny.
Eternity is the living reality of who you are." And that's what I felt on that mountain that day.
Page 43 of 46
Yes. And you can actually sense it, although that's the wonderful thing when you can be surrounded by
the stillness. But the amazing thing is you can actually sense that even in the midst of chaos, even in
the midst of noise, I have felt also what you described. I've also very often felt that in nature. But I
have also felt that extreme peace in situations where one wouldn't expect it. I felt it in the middle of
London in busy streets walking around. Especially after I went through this shiftbefore I went
through the shift, I was always anxious and fearful, and I couldn't stand the traffic and the noise. And
suddenly I was able to just walk along Piccadilly Circus and be totally at peace as if I were in a
mountaintop inside. So when you
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mountaintop inside.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Inside,
yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's what presence is, is it not?

Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Presence is being on the mountaintop inside.
Yes. You hadthat stillness is always there in you as the essence of who you are. And when we call it
stillness we already limit it because it's so vast, you cannot just describe it with one word.

whatever word you use is already a limitation. But words are limited, of course, because words refer to
tangible things but not to the inner reality.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So before we say goodbye, let's sum up what we've covered in this class.
Knowing who you really are means knowing.
Knowing at a level beyond the level of concepts. Knowing yourself, ultimately, is being yourself fully.
Being in touch with being, the being that you are. To sense the "I am" that is the essence of your
identity when you remove all the identifications that usuallyyou sayafter you say "I am," you say
what you are. But if you say "I am" and add nothing to it, that is a good practice that can get you in
Page 44 of 46
touch with the essence. "I'm not this. I'm not that. I am." As a simple meditation, repeat the words "I
am" to yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's so powerful. I started to do that. It is so powerful when you do that.
and don't fill in the blank after the words.
powerful. Another similar one is "Who am I?" It's a question, but don't look to the mind for an answer.
In fact, don't look for any answer, especially not on the level of mind, "Who am I?" And then allow the
stillness to be there after the question. Don't look for an answer. And in not looking for an answer,
there's the answer, but it's not a mental concept as of sensing, feeling.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. "I am."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And just be with that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And so for whether it's an addiction or an eating disorder, or
nothingyou think you have a really wonderful life, but you are connected to all the thing in your life,
the content of your life. Just being able to sit with yourself and to say those words to yourself, "I am."
wonderfully liberating.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And to recognize them, to know them like honey.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To know them.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you again.
Page 45 of 46
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I wanted to thank you all for joining us. The seventh class will be
available on demand tomorrow"Finding Who You Truly Are"for free here at Oprah.com. And if
you want to download or watch any of our classes, of course you know this by now, you can do that
tomorrow at Oprah.com and iTunes. It's free because of the generous support of people like Nature
Made Softgel Vitamins. This week, update your workbook and get ready for our next class on Chapter
8, it's the discovery of inner space. I love this. It's next favorite chapter. I think 7, 8, and 9 are really the
essence of the book. Inner space is about allowing the inner space of your life to connect to the outer
purpose of your life. Inner and outer purposes of your life, right?

That's right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Love it. Again, we thank you. This was a long chapter, lots to cover. I
would say to everybody, I mean, I was sick in bed this weekend and read it again for the third time.
Every time I read it, I go a little deeper and awaken a little more. So this is one you need to be with for
a while over and over.

Definitely. And after you've read it once, you don't need to read long pages, just read sometimes half a
page is enough, one page.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. What I do is I go back and readthis is what I would do. As you're
using your highlighters, just go back and read what you've highlighted and just be with that because the
things that you highlight are usually things that resonate with you more deeply. It's a good way of
reviewing it. And every time you come back to it, you know, two weeks from now, you'll get
something that you didn't get the first time.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh yes. Thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Eckhart. Thanks everybody.
Page 46 of 46
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi everybody, welcome to class number 8 of our New Earth Web series
with author Eckhart Tolle. Eight means we only have two more to go. Tell all your friends. I'm going
to miss it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Me

too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I'm going to miss it. As we head into these final chapters, it's
really gratifying to hear from so many of you who feel that your commitment to this work is making a
difference in your lives. I know I feel that way, and I would like to, again, thank all of the students
from around the world who are watching, who are willing to awaken to the deeper meaning of your
lives. Last week, one of the things that Eckhart said that really struck me; you said that the opposite of
death is not life. The opposite of death is birth. Life has no opposite. So I think that's a good place to
begin our moment of silence. Can we go into silence? Life has no opposite.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Life
has no opposite, and perhaps as we go into the silence, to feel yourself to be life rather than a person. A
person is here only for a few years. But you are basically life experiencing itself temporarily as this
person.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As this person, this personality, this ego.
But underlying it, you are life that is eternal. And so when you go into stillness, it's easy to sense that
underneath the personality there is an aliveness, there is a presence, there's a consciousness that is
timeless. And that's the life beyond the form of life that you are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's why it has no opposite.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because it's forever.
And the opposites only exist in the world of form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the world of form, I get that.
Page 1 of 45
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So as
we go into the silence, into the stillness, let's see if we can just feel that in the background you are
alive, or rather I should say, I am life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I am life.

Eternal timeless. So we go into the stillness now and get in touch with that eternal life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How wonderful. How wonderful to be able to get into touch with that.
That's the inner space that you're talking about in Chapter 8.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which is all about the discovery of inner space. That's what we're
discussing tonight. Let's start with an overview of what this chapter is about. What is inner space, what
you just described?
remember when this term first came to me; it must have been during a talk. I don't believe I used the
term in The Power of Now. I realize that most people, most people's mind is full of stuff, full of one
thought after another, full of continuously arising thoughts, emotions. And the external life is full of
things that need doing, one thing after another, one thing after another. So I observe that in many
people's lives, there seems to be no space. There's only one thing after another, one thought after
another, one thing to do after another, one thing to be worried about after another. So I noticed this
absence of space in human beings, and, really, that inner space or spaciousness is what we could also
call the stillness. But I use different terms because any one term limits it when we talk about stillness,
yes, it is stillness, but it's much vaster than just stillness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. And vaster than being still.
yes.
realizing that within you there's not only objects in your consciousness that continuously arise in your
consciousness as sense perceptions; you experience things. Sense perceptions arise continuously, and
each sense perception becomes an object in your consciousness. And then, thoughts arise continuously,
and every thought becomes also an object that arises in your consciousness. Now, and this is what
most people's lives consist of: continuously, objects arising in consciousness, and I call that "object
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consciousness." And that is what most people know, and they also know themselves as an object in
their conscience. They have an image of who they are. They have certain opinions about who they are.
And so you become an object to yourself, and that is the ego. So mosta mental object; you make
yourself into a mental object and then you have the relationship with yourself as a mental object. It's a
little bit insane.
it's normal. So now, the incredible realization, this is where the spiritual dimension starts. There is no
spiritual dimension in object consciousness. You can have all kinds of interesting-sounding or even
religious-sounding doctrines. If there's no space in you, spaciousness, where suddenly a gap arises in
between thoughtsif there's no spaciousness, then you haven't touched yet the spiritual dimension.
And this book, I believe, is helping many people to find that space within.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say on page 227, "Object consciousness needs to be balanced by
space consciousness for sanity to return to our planet and for humanity to fulfill its destiny. The arising
of space consciousness is the next stage in the evolution of humanity. Space consciousness means that
in addition to being conscious of thingswhich always comes down to sense perceptions, thoughts,
and emotionsthere's an undercurrent of awareness. Awareness implies that you are not only
conscious of things, but you are also conscious of being conscious."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're talking about.
And that's an amazing thing, at first, if you just listen to being conscious, the mind says, "What does
that mean?" You can onlyyou have to experience what that is to know what it means. So to be
conscious of being conscious, for example, you can do it by looking at somethingjust if people who
haven't had a taste of this yet.
example, you look at a flower and youyou're conscious of the image, what you see, the sense
perception. Now, the question is, "Can you also be conscious of yourself as the perceiving presence,
without which there would be no perception?"
Page 3 of 45
soand that is the consciousness, so while you look at a flower, I'm saying flower because natural
things can get you in touch with that dimension more easilywhile you look at a flower, can you
sense yourself as the presence that is looking, that is making the perception possible? And then you
have two dimensions. You're conscious of being conscious, and you are conscious of what you're
looking at. You live in two worlds at the same time, and that bringsthat means in the background of
your life, there's suddenly a vast, but intensely alive, peace. You're verybecause being conscious of
being conscious is very peaceful. That's where the true inner peace arises. So
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that if you don't have that in your life, if you're not able to find that
space between the thinking and the perception, perception, perception, you're not, then...
you lose yourself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In things.

things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And in the world.
lose yourself in the world, and you lose yourself in your own mind. You continuously get drawn into
every thought that arises.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, one of thingsI know you met Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor today.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I interviewed her on my radio show, the Soul Series on XM Radio,
and for those of you who have been enjoying our webcast with Eckhart Tolle, the Monday following
our final webcast, I will have an interview with her on the Web. Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor is a brain scientist
who had had a stroke several years ago, and during the process of having the stroke, in the middle of
having the stroke, she lost her left, the left hemisphere of the brain, which was language and the ego
and all of that. But the right hemisphere remained conscious, and she was aware that she had lost the
ego, and this sense of losing your mind, that you have been talking to us about, happened to her, was
thrust upon her through the stroke.
So I believe what happened to her was what we are talking about. She became conscious of
consciousness itself.
Page 4 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She became conscious of consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Through the stroke.
And really, that'swhen we say that, when we express it in language and language always brings in a
kind of duality, when I say, "I becomeI'm conscious of consciousness," it sounds as if I were
separate from consciousness.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This is
because of the structure of language. In reality, what's happening is that consciousness is which is what
I am, everyone is conscious of the essence.

Consciousness is becoming conscious of itself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you don't know that untiland that's why that tape is going around
the web of Dr. Jill Bolte Tayloryou don't know that until you can quiet the mind enough to know
that you are not all of these thoughts that you have in your head. You are not your thoughts. But you
are life itself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what she also says in her book and in her lectures.
a wonderful realization, just when it comes to a person for the first time, it's just, whoa. And that frees
you from a lot of things that before were so heavy, such athe world can become such a burden to
people, and your own mind can become such a burden. It creates so much suffering in people's lives. If
people had to live with somebody who inflicts all that negativity on them that they inflict on
Page 5 of 45
themselves through their own mind, they would have left that person a long time ago. But you can't
leave your mind; you can only go beyond it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so being able to be conscious of your consciousness or aware of
yourself as a perceiving entity or perceiving presence is really what the true awakening is about.
yes. That's the awakening to who you are beyond the external appearance.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is what we're doing when we're angry and you see your ego
flare up, and all of that is to be able to step back and perceive yourself as the consciousness observing
yourself as the angry person.
In the background
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The space in between that.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the inner space you're talking about is the space between, "I am
angry; I'm saying all of these things," and then there is the other self that is observing that.
And now, if you're angry and ifthe presence can be there in the background
means there's alreadyyou're already very present because it's not easy to remain present when there's
anger. Because anger has an enormous power.
Page 6 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. But if you're observing it, then you can say, "I'm out of control,"
you know.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People have done that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can say to yourself, "I'm out of control. I need to calm down."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But if
you know that you're out of control, you're not completely out of control.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. That's right.
so, and if so, if you know that you arehave been taken over by anger, you haven't been completely
taken over because there's a knowing in the background.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And I think a lot of parents have experienced this, you know,
when your kids do something and it's so upsetting to you, and you know in that moment, "I should not
try to discipline them because I'm too angry to discipline them."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That part of you that knows that you're too angry to discipline them is
the space that you're talking about.
yes, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Got that.
so, and that'sif you don't have that space, then you're completely controlled by the anger.
Page 7 of 45
become the anger.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. That thing that allows you to step back is what you're
talking about. I got it. I got it. I got it. That part of you that says, "I can step back and see I'm acting a
fool."
And so if you know that you are acting a fool then it's notthere is a sanity there that's observing the
insanity. And if you know that you are
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But sometimes people know they're acting a fool, and they just keep on
acting a fool.
that's possible too.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): For a
while it can happen that thecertain old behavior patterns still
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But, generally, if you know, you can pull yourself back.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that which knows is the inner space that you're talking about.
There was a film A Beautiful Mind some years ago about the scientist.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, yes, yes. With Russell Crowe.
And so here he became delusional, this scientist; completely absorbed by his mind and had all kinds of
delusions. And, at some point in the middle of the film, he suddenly realizes that these are delusions
and he realized that he's insane. And also the viewer at that moment realized it. It's so well done
because until that point even the viewer doesn't know.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is not quite sure, yes.
Page 8 of 45
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And at
that moment the healing begins because with the realization that "I am insane, sanity has arisen." The
observing presence is there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The observing presence.
after that he could function again.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is observing presence and inner space the same thing?
But observing should not be confused with judging.

there's no judgment. It's a clearit's like a mirror.
like a mirror showing you what's there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So there are literally two dimensions. There is the personality acting out
of, you know, form and perceptions and all of that, and then there is the observer of that.
And the observer is not judging what is being observed.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It just is.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If the
observer begins to judge, then it's the mind that has come back in.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It just
is. And the observer is timeless. And whatever the observer is observingthe behavior, the thinking
is conditioned by the past. So you are bringing the timeless dimension into this world of time.
Page 9 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And those of you who are reading Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's book
Stroke of Insight, what she said to me todaycause she's been following our classesand she was
saying, you know, "What Eckhart calls consciousness, I call right brain."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Right brain versus left brain.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Left brain is gone; the right brain is the higher consciousness.
that's right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, as I've said before, I love the message boards on Oprah.com, and I
saw a posting that I wanted to share with everyone. It's from someone who calls themselves "Student
99." It said, "I've seen many, many posts by concerned Christians." Is Student 99 here? I thought we
had him, I heard he was on Skype. Well, I don't mean here here, Dean, I know he's not in the building.
Bring out Student 99. So, Student 99, is that you?
Student 99: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, on Skype. I love this e-mail. I love the fact that you have a face and
a body and everything because you just were an entity on the web to me. Posted by Student 99. It says,
"I have seen many posts by concerned Christians wondering whether this book is a threat to their
faith." And you said, as a Christian, you don't think it is, and here is why. You want to tell us why?
Because I thought this was such a beautiful e-mail and you know I've gotten some flack from some
Christians. I've even been called the Antichrist, which I'm kind of amused by that for introducing this
book to the world. So I was interested in hearing what you had to say. Student 99, whose name is
really Alan from Eugene, Oregon. Hi, Alan.
ALAN: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You said
ALAN: Well, you know
Page 10 of 45
ALAN: Go ahead.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, you go ahead. So I'm going to let you tell me what you said in the
e-mail.
ALAN: Well, basically, you know I observed some people that were posting that were in a lot of
distress, and because they felt that the book was an attack on their faith. Many of them had not read the
book.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I love that.
ALAN: And so I wanted to just provide a little bit of perspective on that. From my perspective, I felt
like Eckhart's book allowed me to do more than just quote what Jesus said, and to actually understand
the depth of what he was teaching and be able to practice what he taught rather than just quote what he
taught.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, let me read what you said specifically because I thought you said
it so beautifully here. "Most Christians understand the concepts from the Bible of surrendering their
lives to God and living a loving life and living in the peace that passes understanding. Christians can
quote Jesus's sayings, such as 'Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect,' or 'Judge not that you be
not judged,' or 'You must die to live' or 'Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me.'
Unfortunately, not all Christians have succeeded in following up the talk with the walk. This is because
these quotes point to an internal transformation, which some Christians have not yet fully experienced.
That is why I strongly recommend this book," you said, Alan. "It provides for very powerful tools for
being able to successfully follow Jesus's teachings rather than just quoting them. The book doesn't ask
anyone to change their religion of choice, but does help tremendously and successfully applying faith.
In a nutshell," you say, Alan, "the book shows how to apply forgiveness to every person and every
situation. It shows how to shine the light of awareness on our unconscious hatred of this moment and
thereby overcome the cares of this world. If you want to go deeper than knowing about God at the
level of thoughts, and experience God at the level of knowing, I welcome you to join us in reading A
New Earth. Blessings from Student 99." Isn't that well said, Eckhart?
oh yes, wonderful. Thank you for saying that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Alan, thank you for that.
ALAN: Sure. And you know, I had left the church, and I ended up being able to return to church
because of understanding how to apply the concepts in this book.
Page 11 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? Well, that's good. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so
much. I don't read all the negative stuff though because it doesn't help me. So I'm only, you know, I'm
only interested in speaking to people who want to hear what we have to say, and if you don't agree
with what I'm saying, that's really okay. I bless everybody and their path, whatever that is. Yeah.
And I've had letters from some priests who've foundand nuns and Buddhist monksand they all,
they found the book very helpful. They went more deeply into their own tradition. Because when you
go deep enough into your own tradition, eventuallyall traditions eventually you end up in the same
place, the same realization. On the surface, the traditions are different.

There's only one God at the center.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. There is only one God. I believe that. The source of all things; all
creation. So Peter is Skyping us from his dining room in Phoenix, Arizona. I love to see where people
are. Is that a green diningis that green?
PETER: Yes it is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's my favorite color. My gosh, that's such a lovely color. Peter is
Skyping us from his dining room in Phoenix, where he and a group of friends gather every Monday
night to watch our live webcast. I think that's so great. I hear you adopted a dog and named it Oprah, is
that true?
PETER: Come on, Oprah, come on.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let me see her.
PETER: She came to us the first night of the webcast. The system went down, so it crashed, and we
had all the people gathered, and she came into my life that night.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. Oh, what a cutie-pie. She's holding up her name.
PETER: Oh, she's a (inaudible).
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's so great; that's really great. You say you were addicted to
smoking for 30 years but quit 11 weeks ago after reading A New Earth? This ties into your question,
correct?
Page 12 of 45
PETER: Exactly. We started our group four weeks before the actual Web class, and we were reading
the chapter, number 8. So I applied the techniques to quitting smoking, and with about five minutes'
work and about three hours' time, I had completely stopped. No urges, no more cravings, nothing. No
will power or anything like that. It was so easy it was amazing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is it that you applied?
PETER: Becoming conscious of the feelings. I had run out of cigarettes, and I thought I had to go to
the store, but when the craving came, I said, "Okay, let's be with the craving, let's feel it. What does it
feel like?" Usually we react. And I actually sat there and closed my eyes and felt it, and it started to
dissolve, and it went away. And about two or three hours later, another craving came, and I did the
same thing. This time, the feeling went away even faster. And then, finally, when it came back a third
time, I put my mind to it, it just completely disappeared.
PETER: Gone, never came back.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So were you also doing, I think Eckhart suggested in the addiction
section, taking deep breaths sometimes when you feel like you need the craving for whether it's
cigarettes or food or whatever, to take the three deep breaths and see what happens if the feeling
dissipates, did you do that?
PETER: Yes I did. I took the breaths to basically create stillness, become calm. So I took long deep
breaths and just sort of calmed down and then just started to feel the feelings and watch the thoughts.
You know, I've tried to quit, you know, hundreds of times and sometimes a couple months
successfully, but there was always willpower involved, and there's always a craving still there that's
always, you know, if I just had one. It was always still in the back of my mind. That's no longer there. I
can go out with my friends on Friday night, and they can all be smoking, and I won't evenI don't
even want to look at one.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What in the world happened to you?
PETER: It was miraculous.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, that's great.
PETER: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And have you been able to apply the teachings from the book in other
areas of your life? I mean, for myself, I've just found that being able to go back to my breath in the
Page 13 of 45
middle of the day when things get crazier. I mean, something Eckhart said, I think on one of the
beginning classes about one complete full breath is a meditation.
PETER: Well, that's where the question comes because I do have other issues.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): One conscious breath. One conscious breath is a meditation.
PETER: Earlier in the book, in the chapter he talks about going below a thought.
PETER: And he described my situation exactly like he's here. You talk about, you know, alcohol,
using food and TV to go below thoughts or to numb the senses, numb your thoughts, and just sort of go
into a trance, if you will. And I do that a lot, and I've been trying to break away from that by using the
techniques, and I have not had the same success. And you also say, "Don't make it problem," but I
think I've made it a problem. I want to kind of break from that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So are you asking a question about how to use this more forcefully or
whatever?
PETER: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For alcohol?
PETER: Yeah, with alcohol especially and food. You know, I tend to overeat when I'm tired and I just
want to relax. Food, alcohol, TV tend to be the things I use. And that brings you below a thought when
you're trying to be above thought.
PETER: And I try and do that, except I'm not as successful. I get very frustrated.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, what do you want to say, Eckhart?
it'syour wonderful success story as far as the smoking is concerned and bringingexperiencing how
awareness can dissolve old patterns. In some cases instantly, and in other cases it takes more time for
awareness to dissolve the old pattern. And awareness has to be brought to the pattern when it arises
repeatedly. And it does not mean that every time awareness meets the pattern, that awareness is going
to win. Win may not be the right word because awareness, of course, is notnever fighting anything.
Awareness is just there as the conscious presence. But so bringing conscious presence, for example,
into the urge to have a drinknot that one or two drinks are a problem, but if drinking drags you
Page 14 of 45
down, drags you down to below thinking, then of course it is helpful to bring presence into the urge
when it arises in the same way that you did when you felt the urge come upon you to smoke. So have
you practiced that? Have you been able to feel the urge to drink and then bring awareness to that and
what happened?
PETER: Yes I have. And it'sit kind of postpones it. Eventually, I kind of break down.
believe I mention in the book that bring awareness to it, and it may well happen that the desire, the
urge is still there after 10 minutes of awareness. I believe I mentioned that. It does not mean that you
have lost; it means that the desire is very strong. And at that point, perhaps you will have a drink. And
when it happens again, you bring awareness to it again. Eventually, something will happen to the
pattern. It's very rare to have instant success as you did with smoking. It does happen in some cases.
But bring awareness to old patterns, whatever it is, addictive patterns, behavior patterns, bring
awareness, and, eventually, they cannot coexist for that long. So it's a continuing practice. But don't
expect perfection; don't expect you to be the perfect human being who never touches a drink again or
whatever. As I said to Oprah, I enjoy a drink occasionally.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I said, "Woo-hoo!" So what he's saying, also, and you said this in
the beginning, Peter, don't judge it. And as you begin to practice, what I hear you saying is this miracle
that you experienced with cigarettes is just that because it rarely happens that you start this one time
and it works immediately. What you're saying is, the more you apply the practice of bringing
consciousness to this desire or cravingto this craving, that it will gradually lessen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It will weaken. It will weaken.
yes. You can also apply it to other things, like many people are addicted to television. One day without
watching TV would be dreadful for them.

you couldas a practice, like a spiritual practiceyou could say, "One day a week, I'll see what
happens if I don't watch television." Don't do it when The Oprah Show is on.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you for that, Eckhart. Thank you for that.
Page 15 of 45
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "One
day a week I'll practice," and then observe inside yourself what it feels like, the need to switch on, the
need to be entertained, the need to be stimulated, to absorb what's on the screen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, one day, practicethank you so much, Peter. Those are friends
behind you?
PETER: Yes, they're my reading group.
CROWD: Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Peter, move out of the way so we can see them, so we can say hi to
everybody. Hi, everybody.
CROWD: Hi Oprah, Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi to Peter's group. That's so great there in Phoenix. Yay, guys. Thank
you for watching.
CROWD: Bye.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thank you, thanks Peter.
PETER: Thank you so much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. And all the best to Oprah, you know.
PETER: in good hands.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oprah
is very cute.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oprah's very cute. Oh, we're talking about the dog. Okay, we've got Eric
on the line calling from Copenhagen, Denmark. Eric, what's your question?
ERIK: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
Page 16 of 45
ERIK: Hi. My question is in reference to page 224 when Eckhart writes the phrase, "This too shall
pass."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh yeah, I love that.
ERIK: Yeah, and I feel it's a real powerful phrase that brings a person into the present moment. And
it's also used as a slogan in 12-step recovery programs. And when someone's been living very much in
the ego and form surrenders and enters a 12-step program, which I did over five years ago, and I
currently act as a sponsor for newcomers, am I acting too much in the ego because I'm constantly
working these 12 steps and sharing them and your concepts with others? And also, if this is the case,
how can I live in consciousness and work a 12-step program with the meetings and sponsorship
without the ego being so much at the forefront?
that's a good question. The criterion is whether you, yourself, are still living it on a daily basis. If you
are living the truth of it, "this too shall pass" is only a pointer toward a particular state of consciousness
that is a state of detachment. Not that you don't care, but it's a state of that you still care deeply, but
there's notthere is a detachment from what's happening; an inner sense of freedom in the
background. So when you use these tools, for example, a phrase or a pointer, sometimes people who
teach these things professionally, after a while they stop practicing themselves. They just use them as a
formal thing, and then the ego can come back in.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you think you know everything.
yes. And then you are not living it, you're teaching it, but you are not yourself living it anymore, and
that is the question that only you can answer whether you are still living the reality that's beyond this
pointer that what the pointer points to. And if you are living it, the ego has not taken over, and you're
doing wonderful, very helpful work. I know that the 12-step program has been extremely helpful for
many people. I've had many people who have come to spirituality through that. So I'm sure you're
doing wonderful work, and continue to be alert and awake so that there's certain amount of self-
observation, just to make sure that you are still there yourselfthat you come from that placeso that
the mind doesn't take over.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, Erik?
ERIK: Yeah, that sounds great, thank you very much.
Page 17 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Erik. So let's begin, because I think that's one ofa huge
part of Chapter 8 and the discovery of inner space. The story that you began with the ancient Sufi story
from the Middle East about a king who's continuously torn between happiness and depression. On page
223 you write, "The slightest thing would cause him great upset or provoke an intense reaction, and his
happiness would quickly turn into disappointment and despair. A time came when the king got tired of
himself and of life, and he began to seek a way out. He sent for a wise man who lived in his kingdom
and was reputed to be enlightened. When the wise man came, the king said to him, 'I want to be like
you. Can you give me something that will bring balance, serenity, and wisdom into my life? I will pay
any price you ask.'" What is that price the king had to pay? What is the price all of us have to pay?"

Well, first of all, of course, the pricethe king asked, "Well, how much does it cost? How much is it
going to cost?" And the wise man said to him, "It is of such value that even your whole kingdom could
not pay for it." Now, what that means is that the primary thing in your life is nothing external. What is
primary in your life is your inner state of consciousness.
compared to that, you could have the greatest richesif you are in a state of anxiety or fear, negativity,
nothing is worth that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, in the Bible and in the church, I don't know if it's in the
Bible, but I know in the church we sing this song called, "It Is Well with My Soul."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So unless it is well with your soul, it does not matter what your outward
state is, where you're living, how many square feet you have, how many cars, whatever acclaim you
have received in the world, unless it is well with your soul or your inner state of being.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your inner space. Then you're not well.
And so that's thealways to bear that in mind.
Page 18 of 45
isam I at one with life at this moment? What is my inner state that this moment?" Your primary
concern in any situation needs to be your inner state. Your secondary concern is the outer situation.
Because only when you're in an inner state of rightness, of presence, can you adequately deal with
outer situations. So what is the price? There is no price in terms of monetary value.

Anything like that. We could say that the price to pay is that you let go of the false self. That is the
price you pay. The false mind-made self. The price to pay is identification with that falseeven, the
false I, the false me. And so that's a relatively easy price to pay because it's wonderful to let go of that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But the wise man gives the king a ring.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And inside the ring, the inscription is?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "This
too shall pass. This too shall pass." And he says, "Whatever situation arises in your life, before you call
it good or bad, before you react, before you judge it, touch this ring and remember the inscription that
youand 'this too shall pass.'"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now I find that to be very helpful, as a matter of fact, when I was going
through last year this crisis at my school. That was one of the things I said to myself every day is,
"Live in this moment. Let's handle this moment as it comes, and this moment as it comes, and then
what comes next I'll handle that moment, and I always knew, 'This too shall pass.'" Works for me very
well, and I'm sure a lot of other people. If you're in a difficult stage in your life, you're going through,
you know, trauma or divorce or whatever, to know that this too shall pass. But when I'm feeling happy
and feeling joyful, I don't want to think, "This too shall pass."
can actually also be very peaceful. If you know that it is transient, I know that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you're having such a good time and then you're thinking, "This too
shall pass, so don't get too happy."
don't know that this too shall pass then what can happen? You will cling to the situation internally.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. I got that.
Page 19 of 45
you cling to the situation and then it passes, as it will
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As it will.

even if it doesn't pass yet, it might last for a little while, even while you arethe clinging itself means
already some fear is coming in.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, I see that.

Through the holding on, you don't want this situation to leave you or you don't want to leave the
situation, the clinging meansbrings already up some fear and that means you can't enjoy it as much
really.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I just had a great epiphany, not even for myself, but for all the people
that I know that arekeyword here is "clinging." So many people do this in relationships. They're
holding on to a relationship that has already shown itself to be transient. It's moving on to the next
level. And what so many people do, they want to hold on and let it be as it always was.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's in the process of passing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you should let it pass.
Allowing change to happen and becoming comfortable with change. This is part of "this too shall pass"
because we live in this world where things continuously pass away. The Buddhists call it
"impermanence." It's one of the deepest truth of the Buddha.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the problem lies when you expect it to be the same as it always
was, and that's where so many people get in trouble with their relationships especially.
And it's an inability to let go, inability to let go of situations, of people. And that eventually brings
suffering.
Page 20 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, just recently a friend of mine was telling me about her husband
had said to her he wasn't sure he wanted to remain in the relationship. He wasn't sure. And there's, you
know, seeking counseling about that. And he's now, you know, sleeping in a different bedroom and all
that stuff, and she's trying to hold on and want things to be the way they were and wants to have a baby
and all of that. And you would say, "Put that ring on."
Especially don't cling. If you don't cling, so it means there's no fear in the situation. The fear comes
through the clinging, through not wanting the change. And so if you approach the situation without
fear, then one of two things can happen in a situation like this. There may become a deepening in the
relationship. When the relationship hits a crisis, it may be time for the relationship to dissolve, or it
may be time for a deepening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How do you know the difference?
there's no fear, then you will know either it will deepen or it will end.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. Or it will pass on.
fear keeps you stuck where you are.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. I got it. So let's see some of the e-mail questions you've been
spending during our class. Linda in Tokyo, Japan. "How do I tell the difference between an ego
decision or a conscious decision? I'm in a sexless marriage and want to leave. I'm scared. I've been
living in the moment for the past eight weeks. My answer is not coming to me." That's what Linda
wants to know.
Oh yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "How do I tell the difference between an ego decision and a conscious
decision?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I'm in a sexless marriage and I wanted to leave, but I'm scared." You
just said it. You just said it there.
And an additional thing here, thesometimes something comes to you"This is what I'm going to do,
Page 21 of 45
your mind says, okay, now I know what I have to do." The question is, where does that realization of
what you have to do come from? Does it come from the ego, or does it come from the deeper level of
your being? How can I tell the difference? Is a qualitative difference a difference in, one could say,
vibrational frequency?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If it

comes from the deeper level of yourself out of the stillness, it's always associated with peace. Peace
it's a peaceful realization.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. Absolutely.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If it's
agitated or if it's fearful and says, "Now I know what I have to do," or it is angry, agitated, fearful, it
comes from the upper levels
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And another thing I would say to Linda in Tokyo, Japan, you're
absolutely correct. Another thing, it comes fromif it's coming from inner space that we're talking
about in Chapter 8, if it's coming from consciousness or inner space and not your ego, not only will
you feel peace, but you won't have to ask 15 people, "Is it the right thing?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You will know it's the right thing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You will know it's the right thing. And I have found that if you are
operating from consciousness, your higher consciousness or as we're calling it in this chapter, "inner
space," that whether it's buying a pair of shoes or making a life decision, if it comes from the place of
inner space, you know the answer. When it's outside yourself, if it's in your ego mind, you have to ask
the store clerk, you have to ask your friends, you have to ask everybody, "What do you think, what do
you think, what do you think of these shoes, what do you think, what do you think," you know? But
when you arewhen it's well with your soul, the answer's clear. That's how you know.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Quiet,
peaceful certainty.
Page 22 of 45
Powerful, quiet, peaceful. You know what you have to do. You know what's right for you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like the other day I had to cancel an engagement, and I was saying I
never cancel things, but after I canceled, I felt such a calm, and I knew that that was the right decision.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Although it might be upsetting to other people, I felt such a calmness
about it, and that is true for anybody who is making a decision. When you make the right decision, you
feel a calmness and a peace about it.
And that also relationships, leaving a relationship, if it comes from the right place, you leave, but
you're peaceful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not afraid.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not afraid. You still could be sad about it though.
yes. Sadness can happen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can be sad about it and disappointed about it.
interesting thing about sadness isor sadness, of course, also arises when somebody passes away,
close to you.
can be sadness, and if there's acceptance, thenbecause death is one of the prime examples of
everything passing away.
Page 23 of 45
Before life form passes away, everybodyif you live with a partner, either your partner will leave you
or you will leave sooner or later through death. So that's the allowing change to happen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Allowing change to happen. And you say the key to understanding "this
too will pass," at the top of page 225, is knowing that "nonresistance, not resisting, nonjudgment, and
nonattachment are the three aspects of true freedom and enlightened living." Hard to be nonresistant,
nonjudgmental and nonattached when it's your husband who says, "I no longer want to be in this
relationship."
yes. And there'sif you share a great deal of past with another personit could also be family
member or parentthen sometimes harder to be present when there's a huge amount of past in the
relationship.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. But, "Once you see and accept the transience of all things,"
page 225, "and the inevitability of change, you can enjoy the pleasures of the world while they last
without fear of loss or anxiety about the future."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was so brilliant the way you did that.
the beautiful thing about being able to enjoy the things of this world knowing that nothing is going to
last.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nothing's going to last.
you can actually enjoy it more deeply now without the fear that it might finish.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because it is going to finish.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It is going to finish.
then something else will take its place. It's continuous coming and going.
Page 24 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. Tonight we're Skyping again with a study group in Los
Angeles who've gathered at the Bodhi Tree bookstore. It's a landmark in West Hollywood. Hi,
everybody at the Bodhi Tree.
CROWD: Hi.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh gosh, there's our Bodhi followers. Nick has a question about finding
his purpose, and I know it's something that's been on the minds of quite a few of our students. Hello,
Nick, let's hear it.
NICK: Hey, Oprah, what's up?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hey, everything's up.
NICK: My question is basically, well, you have to worry about a lot of stuff in life, you have to go to
work, you have to pay your bill. Your cell phone bill works in the now, but if you don't work today, it's
not going to work a month from today. So how do you live in the now and still worry about your IRAs,
investing in your future, what you're going to do as far as, you know, money paying your bills, doing
what you have to do, you know, in this ego-centered world, especially in Los Angeles.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what you're saying is
NICK: I guess this is my question.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How does becoming who we are trulywhat if becoming who we were
truly meant to be really isn't financially practical, is what you're asking, right?
NICK: Yeah, what if I wanted to go on a mountain somewhere, just become who I was. I eventually
would, I guess, starve or freeze. But, I mean, you know, how do you integrate this in your everyday
life? Sort of being in the now, being the essence of who you are without suffering in the long run?
Without, you know, the squirrel would sufferthe squirrel would die if it didn't put away nuts for the
future, so
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I had seen a question that you had sent earlier, Nick, where you
said, "It's all fine and dandy to read about becoming who you truly are and being who you were meant
to be, but how do we do that and still pay all of our bills?
Page 25 of 45
NICK: Right, right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, okay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay,
thank you, thank you, good question. However, the questionthe first few words of your question
already contained an error. And it's easy, if an error keeps into a question, then it's hard to answer it
truly. The error was, you said, "We have to worry about paying our bills and all kinds of things." Is
that true? No. You have to pay your bills, but you don't have to worry about paying your bills. And the
squirrel has to put away the nuts, but the squirrel is not worried about the nuts. Only humans are
worried about their nuts.
canbeing present with what you do does not mean that you neglect your daily affairs, and so on. It
means you deal with them in a different and, in fact, more powerful and more effective way. You give
up the worrying partyou still pay your billsbut you let go of the worrying about paying your bills.
In that way you learn from the squirrel how to live.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because worrying is your choice. You see that, don't you, Nick?
Worrying is your choice.
NICK: You know what? At timesat times when I don't worryI've had moments in my life where I
didn'twhere I just kind of let the waves of the world roll over me, and I kind of did nothing about
situations and hoped that they would work out themselves. And they didn't. I mean, worrying did help
me in the past actually get things together and get my life on track. I guess to befor me in my life
to be in the essence, to be with my spiritual self, it's not enough. I have to really be actively worried
about the actual day-to day-business of surviving.

Well
NICK: You know, which most people have to do, you know.

would still argue with that. It is true that you need to take action. It is not true that you need to worry in
order to be able to take action. So you can actually experiment with, in your daily life, start with little
situations. Let's say there's a pile of bills that you have to pay, how do you approach these bills? Are
you going to worry the night before or on the day? "Am I going to be able to pay?" You just take one
bill after another, you look at it, you phrase it, "Okay, do I have the money in my bank account or not?
If you don't have the money in my bank account, I have to do something to make more money. What
Page 26 of 45
can I do now?" Put that aside. "Look, this action I can take: pick up the phone, make a phone call."
Present, effective, powerful, but no worry. If youthen you will see allyour whole life will become
not only more effective and more powerful but also much easier. It flows with greater ease. Nothing in
nature is worried. All the animals do what they have to do, but they don't have to worry about it. They
are active. Everything is active in nature: The trees are active, the grass, the flowers; everything is
active and putting out energy. It's only the humans that worry about it and think they need worry in
order to survive in this world. You don't need worry; you need action, but not worry.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that's an interesting point if you've ever been on safari or seen
animals on a hunt or actually seen a kill, you know, they go out in search of, and weeverybody, I'm
sure, watched the Planetyou watched the Planet Earth series, right, Nick? Where you see the
animals?
NICK: No.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, Nick, you got to get Planet Earth.
NICK: No, but you know what? That what he was sayingI'm sorry. What he was saying reminds me
of
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nick, you got to get the Planet Earth. And you get to see all these
animals hunting other animals and I justit just made me think of what you're saying, as the animal's
hunting the other animal, it's just doing it, it's not worrying, "I hope I find a rabbit today. I hope I find a
rabbit today." Yeah.
NICK: Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go ahead, Nick, go ahead. You want to continue, yeah.
NICK: I was going to say thatthat reminds me of the Lily of the Valley that just doesn't worry about
closing itself in the Bible, it just does. It just exists. It worriesthe sparrow or the crow doesn't worry
how it's going to get its next meal, it just does.
NICK: And that reminds of that right there.
NICK: But I'm thinkingI guess I'm thinking of those hippies in India that still haven't come back.
They're just broke and they took all their idealism there.
Page 27 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nick is saying that'sNick is saying, "Well, that's really good for that
Bible stuff and for the Lilies of the Valley, but listen, I'm living in L.A. and I got to worry about this."
Is there anybody else there at the Bodhi Tree behind you thatis there anybody that disagrees with
Nick, that has, you know, similar issues and you're not worried about it, you've been able to apply.
Come up to the microphone here. Let's getcome on up there. Hi.
JESSICA: Hi, how are you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, you are? Hi, who are you?
JESSICA: I'm Jessica.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, hi, Jessica.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what do you want to say about what we've been talking about?
JESSICA: You know, there'sit's on page 238 and it's about becoming one with the situation. And
that the solution arises out of that. And I've always kind of been more of a take-action person first and
then deal with the inner peace and all that later. But I was wondering, how do you deal with things like
that in relationships and things like weight management and all of those issues? Do you just become
still and just hope for an answer to come or do you still actively seek one out?

what you're referring to is on this page, it says, you don't react. What I'm saying there is you don't react
against a situation when a situation arises that
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You merge with it.
You'll become
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the solution arises out of the situation.
Now, this should not be confused with becoming inactive or just sitting there and looking and not
doing anything. What it means is there's no inner resistance to that arising situation. Sometimes things
happen when you have a project, you have some work to do and something happens tosome obstacle
arises in what you want to do, a person, a situation arises. And so, for many people, as soon as an
obstacle arises, they become resistant, and they go into a negative state and try to fight the obstacle.
Page 28 of 45
They are fighting the obstacle rather than accepting the moment as it is internally and say, "Oh, the
situation has changed."

talked about change.

Situations change continuously, and the world does not necessarily do what it wants you to do, what
you want it to do. So you face a situation, and any change that happens is immediately accepted inside,
and through the acceptance, you respond to the situation. So you're not accusing, you're not making
wrong, you're not complaining about the situation to yourself and others. So many people burn up a
huge amount of energy, uselessly, that they could use to deal with the situation, but they burn up a
huge amount of energy complaining in their heads and to others about what has happened.

Instead of looking at what has happened and saying, "Oh, this is how it is, what can I do now?" A
moment of stillness and then action happens. No complaining, no resisting, no fighting against, not
making a person or situation into an enemy that, again, burns up a lot of useless energy and brings up a
lot of energy that is going to sabotage what you want to do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, again, you say, "When instead of reacting against the situation, you
merge with it; the solution arises out of the situation itself. Actually, it's not you, the person, who is
looking and listening, but the alert stillness itself" or the inner space.
I say the solution arises out of the situation, it does not mean that you don't do anything. In some cases
it is you who is going to take the action, but it will come out of a powerful place of being one with the
situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think, too, Jessica, ask Nick to come back to the microphone. Thanks,
Jessica. Nick, come back up here, we're not through with you. I think, too, I think you really represent
a whole lot of peopleparticularly young peoplewho have said to me personally or have e-mailed
and think that being in alignment with who you are truly meant to be and awakening to your purpose is
some kind ofisrepresents passivity that you're just sort of sitting around just, you know, waiting
on a woo-woo moment and not really doing anything. The real purpose of this entire book and the
work of spirituality is to get you, to get us, to align our personalities with our soul or higher
Page 29 of 45
consciousness so that the work that you do in the world comes from the place of the higher
consciousness, and you use your ego or personality to serve that. You allow your personality to serve
the calling of consciousness that has put you here on the earth in the first place. And when you do that,
everything has a flow to it. You're in the right job; it gives you the right amount of money for you at
any given time because you are in alignment, so you're not worrying about things because you're not
living beyond your means. You're not stressing about things because you're not allowing your ego to
determine and define who you are in the world. So you're not acting out of an external self, but acting
out of place of inner space or consciousness, so everything is in alignment. And that's not passive,
that's not woo-woo-woo. I can't pay my bills untillet me find myself later. That is aligning your
personality with the higher consciousness so that you're higher consciousness, you operate from a
place of being and the inner space is directing and guiding your life and not the outer space. You get
it?
NICK: Yeah, I do. Sorry if I made you mad, Oprah. But I do, that's wonderful. Thank you so much. It's
a pleasure to be here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, I'm not mad, but I justI hear thisI hear this a lot. I mean, earlier
today my stylist was saying, "Well, what about my passion? What about my passion? Do you want me
to just give up my passion?" No, this isn't about giving up your passion; it's about feeling your passion
more deeply.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And being in alignment with that.
NICK: How do you know what you want, or your passion is, isn't just ego-driven? What if I just
wanted to be like, I don't know, a rock star and that's completely ego-driven and that didn't help the
world in any way, but if I kept on working toward it, it would justit would just not be serving anyone
but myself, what if my passion is wrong, you know?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If it's
wrong
NICK: Sorry, too many questions.
it's fine.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, go ahead, go ahead. Eckhart, answer that.

Sometimes, you may know until you have achieved what you wanted to achieve, whether it was ego or
Page 30 of 45
not. When you get what you wanted to achieve and very soon you find it does not satisfy you, then it
was the ego. So you canit's a learning process. Nobody's saying you shouldn't try to achieve this or
that. If the impulse is there to have this or that, do it, and see what happens. If it doesn't satisfy you, it's
the ego.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the greatest rock stars are those who are rock stars because they
sing or they perform because they had to. And whether they were performing to, you know, grand
crowds or in their garage space to just their family members, they sing because they have to. The
greatest dancers are those who dance because they have to and they become rock stars or dancing stars
because that is coming from such a pure place of passion. And that's what the world feels because
those are the people who last.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The people who are operating from the passionate true space.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And not just doing it because they want to make the money or because
of the ego self.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what I think.
good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it was nice talking to you, Nick.
NICK: Thank you. Sorry it took so long, but it was a pleasure to be here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, everybody at the Bodhi Tree.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Jessica, Nick and all our Bodhi buddies there. Okay, now we have an e-
mail from Sumaya in Bethlehem who wanted to say, "I live under military occupation. I've witnessed
the demolishing of my home, and I do not know to apply your theories when the outside is so out of
my control. How can I be at peace when there are soldiers outside my door?" There's a question for
you.
Page 31 of 45
is, of course, the experience of many people in this world. If you look what's happening in this world,
people are confronted with violence all the time, with loss. They lose their homes; they lose family
members. Is it possible here to enter a state of surrender? Is it possible to accept the seemingly
unacceptable? And, for some people, it has been possible. I know it is possible to accept what seems
unacceptable. And if you accept the unacceptable, you will go very deep very quickly. And what
otherwise would take many years of realization to realize, it will take you to a very deep point if you
accept somethinga great loss in your life. In prison. I continuously get letters from people in prison
now. This is unacceptable, some prisons are dreadful places. And some people there live in agony and
suffering and anger and resentment. And some, a minority, a few have realized that they can live in a
state of inner surrender, which is not negative. It's a complete acceptance that this is as it is right now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because they are in nonresistance, nonjudgment and nonattachment?
Becauseand you accept it because why should you accept it? Because it is at this moment. It is. So
no matter what it is, accepting the is-ness of this moment brings you to a place of inner freedom and
also a place of power. You have to go, in order to accept the unacceptable, you have to go really very
deep and saybring a very deep yes to this moment. An uncompromising yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think that a lot of people have trouble with the word "accepting it"
because "accepting" says to people, "I must then also condone it."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What you're saying is stopby your term "accept" you mean don't deny
that it's happening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As you resist it, if you continue to resist it, the example you used earlier
in our classes is you're in the mud, you're stuck in the mud, the wheels are in the mud, you must first
accept that "I'm stuck in the mud" before you get yourself out of the mud.
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can't seep saying, "I'm not in the mud."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, or
you and you don't say, "I shouldn't be, why does this happen to me?"
Page 32 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I can't believe I'm in the"
then all the energy goes into complaining and into the resistance.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. Got it, got it. Kristina lives in Toronto, Canada, and Skyping us
from her family room. Kristina, your question? Hello.
KRISTINA: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart.
KRISTINA: I have been afraid to drive for 16 years now. I was in a serious car accident, and it has
stopped me from, you know, being responsible in my family life. My husband has so much burden. He
has to take our kids to their activities and so forth, take time off of work to take them to doctor's
appointments. So my questionbut just recently from reading A New Earth, I've started to drive, so
yay. But my question is, how do I remain in the inner spaciousness that you speak about on page 238
so that I can stay behind the wheelI mean things are going well right now, but if that fear comes
creeping back, how do I handle it?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't know if I want you behind the wheel if I'm on the road and you're
trying to do that.
KRISTINA: Oh, but don't say that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, okay. Okay.

No, thefirst you're now able to drive, that's wonderful. The old fear is gone but now a new fear has
arisen, and that fear is about whether the fear's going to come back or not. And so that is often the
casepeople develop a fear about a fear. "Am I going to be in fear again?" The mind tends to do that
kind of thing because it projects itself into the future and says, "Am I going to remain fearless, or is the
fear going to come back?" So realize that that is your mind trying to figure something out and thereby
creating a new level of fear on top of the original fear that has already dissolved. So trust that it's not
going to come back, but something you can do to help it is to actually consciously enjoy the driving,
and enjoy sitting in the car, enjoy sitting at the traffic light, enjoy the driving itself. I enjoy driving. It's
a very peaceful thing to do for me. So, and be comfortable with being in the car. What I used to do
often and don't do it so much anymore, I would get into my car and drive out to some lonely place and
sit in the car and meditate or write. I liked being in the car. So use the enjoyment. The more you find
Page 33 of 45
the enjoyment, the less likely the fear's going to come back. So seek the enjoyment ofit has to do
with enjoying the present moment, the driving itself, the movement and so on. And don't go into your
mind, don't follow up that thought when it says, "Is it going to last? Is this state of being without fear
going to last?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just stay in the moment.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Stay
in the moment. The more you're in the moment; the less likely fear is going to come back. It can't
really come back when you are in the now. It's only when you leave the now, then it will come back.
Either you go into the past and you remember something that happened in the past. You've left the
now, or you go into the future and say, "Am I going to have fear again at some point?" So the more
you stay in the now, the more you're keeping out fear. Fear comes through past or future.
KRISTINA: Thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, Yvonne. Okay, hi.
YVONNE: Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What's your question? I like this question.
YVONNE: It's about "this too shall pass." And the quote about it, and I forget the quote (inaudible).
How do you be a voice for change in the planet where things are going wrong and still will be present
in the stillness and create the action without being taken down by all the horrendous things that are
happening? It seems to me like a paradox; to be present and then to work for change in the future.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You said, "How can I be a voice for planetary change and really
say I don't mind what happens because there's so much"
YVONNE: (inaudible) crazy stuff.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So much crazy stuff is going on in the world, how can you just say
YVONNE: How can you not mind animal abuse?
Page 34 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, not mind animal abuse, not mind all the violence going on in the
world and just saying, "This too shall pass."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): First,
of course, the English language has two expressions that are related and yet very different. Sometimes,
"I don't mind" is interpreted by people as meaning "I don't care." "I don't care" and "I don't mind" are
very different. "I don't mind" does not mean that you don't care. It means there is a space of freedom
inside you, and that is a peaceful place. And unless you are rooted in that peaceful place within, you
cannot ultimately be an agent for true positive change in this world. Your state of consciousness is
what transmits itself through whatever you do. Your state of consciousness is primary. And only if
your state of consciousness is at peace, can whatever you do reflect that. And you can be a bringer of
peace into this violent and insane world, and you can then, through whatever you do externally, can
bring sanity into this logic-insane world.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Whether it's about that particular thing you're concerned about or not,
because if you are in a state of consciousness where you are at peace, everything that you do in the
world will bring peace to the world.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's how you change the world.
And everything you will doyou do will be much more empowered, it will be empowered by that
consciousness rather than coming from antagonism, coming from thinking, "I have to fight these
people, making situations of people into enemies." That's all the old consciousness. You cannot change
this world through the old consciousness or applying the structures and the ways of the old
consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, one of the things you shared with us earlier, what he was saying,
Yvonne, in one of the early classes is that you cannot make change by fighting against anything. And a
surefire way of knowing that something is going to fail is when you say, "It's the war against"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "The war against" anything cannot win.

you cannot fight it, it does not mean that you cannot take action. You can take powerful action, but it
comes out of that basic place of inner peace. People don't realizemany people don't realize yet that
Page 35 of 45
very powerful action comes out of the place of inner peace. They believe they need to be agitated to
bring about change.
YVONNE: Coming from inner peace, motivate other people to sort of mind what's going on so that
they might do things differently in their lives that impact the planet as a whole, that's the thing that
kind of worries me. That the concept can give people apathy and, like, "Oh, I'm going to throw my
cigarette on the ground and it's going to go into the ocean, and I don't mind what happens."
that's not it. You see the consequences of any action, if you're present, then you will not do
unconscious things that actually produce suffering. It's only when you are not present that you will
produce suffering in one form or another.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got that.
you're present, you do not generate suffering for yourself or others. It's the only place from where you
don't generate suffering. And then already, you are already at the beginning of the change of the world.
And then it doesn't matter what you do, you may just disseminate information, but the information
aboutto make people aware of certain things, some people have very important things to do. And the
way in which you disseminate the information will also be empowered by your state of consciousness.
It will not make others wrongother people wrongand thereby produce a reaction and then you're
trapped in the same old thing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You've experienced that, right, Yvonne? You've been on the street and
somebody's trying to hand out something. And if it's a person who is really agitated or you can feel or
sense their anger and agitation, you don't want to take the pamphlet. But if the person hands it to you or
whatever it is with a sense of calm or peace, then you're more inclined to want to even engage with
them.
YVONNE: I've experienced that as myself, like, 15 years ago being the staunch environmentalist and
telling people what to do, and, of course, watching them do the opposite.
YVONNE: And inspiring the exact opposite that I wanted. So I've worked the last 10 years since The
Power of Now to be present, but in order to do that I had to, like, stop looking at the atrocities of the
world. And now I'm ready to come back and I want to keep the spiritual side, but at the same time, not
let the world get me down but be able to do something and be a part of positive change.
that's your challenge now.
Page 36 of 45
YVONNE: I appreciate this (inaudible).
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Your
challenge now and your spiritual practice now is to balance the two so that you can be active and bring
about change in the world without losing your rootedness in being and your presence. So that's a
balancing, a balancing act.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Yes.
that's what you have to do now.
YVONNE: Thank you for sharing how to do it
YVONNE: I'm learning slowly what you just said about accepting the acceptance, the deep acceptance
of the world as it is, that hit me, finally. I'm starting to understand it in depth. And not the accept of it's
okay.
YVONNE: Just that itthis is happening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That it is happening.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, and that the angrier, more upset you get about it, it's still
happening.
YVONNE: Oh yeah, yeah. That doesn't serve anything. I get that, but then how do you keep going?
ButI'mslow process. There's two more weeks, two more chapters.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, yeah. Inner purpose is going to help that a lot.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Tell Nick to be sure to show up for inner purpose, I've got a
few things to say to him. Thanks, everybody. Natalie lives in Australia but is on holiday with her
family and is Skyping us from her friend's kitchen in England. Hi, Natalie.
Page 37 of 45
NATALIE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. How are you?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're both well, thank you.
NATALIE: This is so exciting for me. On page 239 in your book, you say that some people feel more
alive when they travel and visit unfamiliar places or foreign countries because those times sense
perception, experiencing, takes up more of the consciousness than thinking. Since the class on the third
chapter, I've been sharing an amazing holiday with my family and our friends through Europe. I've
been able to enjoy my holiday so much more by practicing the teachings that I've read about in the
book and the things I've learned from the class. But my life back home is not like my holiday, it's
really busy. I've got a job and three children, and my husband has his own business. And on reflection,
I think I've filled up any free time I've had so that I wasn't aligned with that constant noise in my head.
I feel really great at the moment, and I want to feel the same when I go home. So my question is, how
do I transition between this wonderful holiday and go back to my normal life at home?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a good question.
yes, thank you. Yes, it's a good question. The everyday-ness of many people's lives can really pull you
into a place of unconsciousness because of the repetitiveness of one's life. So it's up to you when you
get home to bring, to invite a different state of consciousness as much as possible into your daily life.
Into the daily routine of your life, invite a state of presence. When you are engaged in things that you
do every day repetitively, things that usually are a means to an end, driving the kids to school, going,
doing the shopping, doingyou can see how many things are a means to an end in one's daily
existence. And that's not a very powerful way to live when almost everything you do in your daily
existence is a means to some end because you have to do this and you have to do that. So bring in
presence where, instead of treating whatever you do as a means to an end, as much as possible, make it
into an end in itself. For example, when you are driving from here to there, be absolutely present every
moment. Look around. Be alert as if you were seeing things for the first time, the trees, the people, the
traffic.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you do that by not labeling things.

Not labeling mentally what you are experiencing. Be there as a conscious presence when you're doing
shopping at the supermarket.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Perceiving without naming is what it's called.
Page 38 of 45
Perceiving without naming. Be there with every step, look at the things around you, "What do I need to
get?" To be conscious of every movement, of everything around you, so that it's not an everyday thing.
It's that everything that you do is happening just now. It's not a repetition.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I promise you, if you start to do this in your everyday life, what he
says on page 252, "As much as possible in everyday life, use awareness of the inner body to create
space. When waiting, when listening to someone, when pausing to look at the sky," all on page 252, "a
tree, a flower your partner, or child, feel the aliveness within at the same time. This means part of your
attention or consciousness remains formless, and the rest is available for the outer world of form.
Whenever you "inhabit" your body in this way it serves as an anchor for staying present in the Now. It
prevents you from losing yourself in thinking, in emotions, or external situations." When you really get
that, what he's saying on page 252, Natalie, everything around you takes on a magical quality. I can
really testify to that, that just doing routine things becomes almost like you have wow moments doing
the smallest things, you know. Washing the
NATALIE: I've been feeling thatI've been feeling that at the moment because we've been seeing so
many amazing things and meeting so many different people and being in places where they speak
different languages. But I know at home, what I dowhen I'm doing something, I'm thinking about the
next thing that I'm going to be doing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The next thing.
NATALIE: So I really need toI can really take that on. Thank you so much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What I would like to say to you and everybody else, when you start to
put this into practice, and I've been doing it myself during the past eight weeks. When you start to
actually put it into practice, everything is amazing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everything starts to be amazing. The fact that you're breathing in and
out of your lungs starts to be amazing. That's what the now does. It brings you to a level of
consciousness and presence so just being is amazing. And you don't have to leave home to experience
that. Isn't that the key, isn't it?
that's the key, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is on the back board? I thought I saw my name there when there
was a wide shot there. Does that say "Oprah?"
Page 39 of 45
NATALIE: Thanks from my daughter. That's from my Georgie. She's asleep because it's about 3 a.m.
She wanted to say hi, so that's her "Hi, Oprah."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, Georgie. Thank you. Thank you very much, Natalie.
NATALIE: Bye, thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. What Natalie was talking about is the whole point of
awakening to your life's purpose, and next week we're going to be talking about inner purpose, which
is what I was trying to say to Nick, maybe too stridently. Those happened a couple times where I'm,
like, saying to Gayle, Gayle will say, "I don't understand," and I will go, "Well, the reason is"
Nick represents about 50 million other people who are the same.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, who are feeling that, "Well, listen, I got to make money. I
got to make money." But what we're going to be talking about next week, Nick, is when you align the
inner purpose and let the inner purpose determine what your outer actions are, then you're not worried.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You never worry.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No matter how much money you're making, you're not worried because
you're on purpose with your life. You're on purpose with your life. Yeah, well, you know, I think a lot
of people feel like this is all kind ofsometimes they feel like this is ooey-gooey stuff, and yes, and
"I'll get spiritual, but let me make some money first. I want to be spiritual and all that, but I got to make
some money first."
that's actually in the New Testament where he says, "Let me first do this"they're invited into the
kingdom of heaven.
say, "Oh, let me first do this." There's another, wait, has another excuse, "Let me first do this first. I
have to do this."
Page 40 of 45
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "Then
I'll be ready." Of course, it never happens. The then never comes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So there is Barbara in Shanghai, China, who writes, "I find it really
difficult to be the observer of a challenging work environment, especially when I'm frustrated with
employees and have to discipline my staff. What are some of the practical steps I can take to overcome
the situation?"
there you use whatever the practical things that are described in the book. Consciousone or two
conscious breaths as often as possible. Getting in touch with the feeling of the inner body, the aliveness
of the inner body while you are listening to people especially. Then already a different energy is there.
You are listening from a different state of consciousness when you are in touch with the inner body
while you listen.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And a
lot of thingsthe person who is running an office or whatever our questioner does, they probably have
to deal with many people every day, which involves listening to people in addition to, of course,
speaking to people. So be there as thefeel the aliveness within as you listen. As much as possible,
take conscious breaths while you are engaged in things.

Bringing spaces, little spaces into your daily existence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Gaps.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Little
gaps. That is more important than doing. It's wonderful to do a meditation at the end of the day. But
bringing little gaps into your everyday activities is even more important.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love where you talk about on page 232 and 233. You tell people to
"avoid watching television programs and commercials that assault you with a rapid succession of
images that change every two or three seconds. Rather than watching at random, choose the
programs you want to see. Whenever you remember to do so, feel the aliveness also inside your body
as you watch. Alternatively, be aware of your breathing from time to time. Look away from the screen
at regular intervals so it doesn't completely take possession of your visual sense." We just did a show
Page 41 of 45
the other day and this momit was a show about giving up what you could be willing to live without.
This family was going to give up their computers, or they did give up their computers and their
television for a week. And their little 5-year-old boy was crying because he had to give up the
computer. His mom walked in the room, stood behind him, was behind him, called his name, and he
still couldn't, he couldn't hear her because he was so mesmerized by the video game he was playing.
What are we doing to ourselves and more importantly, to our children through the video games, the
television? Which is a form of like hypnosis almost.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For people.
yes. And it pulls your attention out of the body. It's like leaking, an energy leakage, especially for
young children. The energy gets drawn out very easily. So it's continuous energy leakage, and they
cannot focus because of the rapidly changing images on TV screen in many programs, the ability to
have a prolonged focus on something is greatly diminished.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I thought that. That's why we have so many children with ADD
because they've grown up in a world where there's 30 seconds, 30 seconds and 30 seconds.
That means the quality of your life is also diminished because the quality of your life very much
depends on the degree of your attention. Attention is quality. So if you cannot give attention to
anything for very long, that diminishes the quality of your life and what you can do. So parents need to
be careful with their children. I'm not saying remove all these things immediately from your children
because they are addictive, but very gently don'treduce the amount of time they spend with video
games, and reduce gently the amount of time spent watching television.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because they cause you, as you say, "So when watching television, the
tendency is for you to fall below thought, not rise above it. Television has this in common with alcohol
and certain other drugs. While it provides some relief from your mind, you again pay a high price: loss
of consciousness."
And here we have
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what it's designed to do, isn't it, for the most part?
here we have
Page 42 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Our show, though, is designed to make you more conscious, I will have
to say that.

know that. When I wrote, there somewhere there are some television shows that have been helpful to
many people and have raised people's consciousness, it says that somewhere in the book.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It does.

I saw you in my mental in my mind.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. You could have just said, "The Oprah Show." I saw you
wrote that there are some television showsyou could have just put in parenthesis, "The Oprah Show,
for example. Yes. Yeah, but for the most part, television is designed to numb us out.
And here we have the interesting concept of arising above thinking and falling below thinking. So
what we are engaged in herenow, most people are at the thinking level. They are controlled by their
mind; they are identified with their mind. This work that we are doing here, if you can call it work, it's
not work really, is rising above thinking. Being present means you've risen above thinking. You are
fully conscious, but there's little or no thought activity.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Can you tell me why you say on page 233, "Make sure you don't go to
sleep immediately after switching off the set or, even worse, fall asleep with the set still on." I know
my friend Gayle sometimes is watching TV, and she goes, "I don't know if I was watching or my feet
were watching" because she goes asleep with the TV on.

then the, all the turmoil that you've just been watching and you've just spent a significant amount of
time below thought in a state of unawareness and unconsciousness, and if you go fromthat will
affect the quality of your sleep. And you will notice also when you wake up in the morning you won't
be as refreshed. It's vital to go into sleep from a place of consciousness rather than unconsciousness.
Then the quality of your sleep will be much better, and you will wake up feeling renewed.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I notice that. See, I don't watch television before going to bed, I hardly
watch television at all, but I notice that if I meditate before going to sleep, I have a better sleep.
Page 43 of 45
And what I recommend to people is as they lie in bed ready to go to sleep, lie on your back, flat on
your back, and bring attention, scan your body with your attention from your feet to your head, your
hands, your arms. And then feel the internal aliveness of the body as you lie there. You lie in the
energy field of your body. That means there's also very little or no thinking going on because the
attention moves into the body. And there, from there, you go to sleep. Hold that for five, 10 minutes,
it's a very pleasant way of saying goodbye to that day and of going into sleep. It feels very much alive.
It's joyful actually, to lie there in that energy field.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that energy field that you're talking about is exactly what this whole
chapter is about, is the energy field of inner space.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go inside the body and allow yourself to be the observer of the body.
And then you connect with the energy. You merge with the energy field. And, of course, the body is
mostly empty space. 99.999 percent empty space. Physicists tell us the space between the molecules,
the atoms that make up the body, the spaces in between the atom is so vast that your body is 99.999
percent empty space.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a lot for my brain to take in right now. But I do want to thank you
for joining us. This eighth class will be available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com.
And if you want to download or watch any of our classes, you can do that tomorrow also at Oprah.com
and iTunes. It's free because of the generous support of Nature Made Softgel Vitamins. This week, you
can update your workbook, get ready for our next class, Chapter 9. We're coming to the end. Your
inner purpose. Your inner purpose for all of you who read this book, looking for your inner purpose,
this is what it's all about, people. Thank you.
you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For bringing us into inner space. Next week is inner purpose. And as I
saying to Nick earlier, inner purpose, when it defines what you do in the world, puts you in alignment,
and all things come.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As they should.
Page 44 of 45
then comes the alignment of inner purpose and outer purpose.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh that's it. Thanks everybody, goodnight.

Goodnight.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's do our high five. We almost didn't do it last week, and people
complained. Bye, everybody.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bye.
Page 45 of 45
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Hi, everybody. Welcome to class number nine of our New Earth
Web series. We are here with author Eckhart Tolle. Number ninewe're counting down. We're down
to the last two chapters of our book, and it is my most sincere hope that all of our classes so far have
been leading you to find more purpose and enjoy in your own lives. And tonight's class, tonight's
lesson is really about bringing clarity to finding your inner purpose. So I think this is my most exciting
chapter of all. I know I say that every chapter. I didn't say that after last chapter, and I'll tell you why in
a few moments, but before we begin the class, I'm going to let you lead us in our moments of silence,
or moment of silence today.
So we are already familiar with the silence that you start with. And this time I would like to use a very
short, very powerful line from the Old Testament. And I believe that this will be especially helpful for
those Christians who are not quite comfortable with silence, and feel that somehow silence is not
compatible with Christianity or Christian teachings, which is not the case at all. Perhaps it has been
overlooked in the past couple centuries in Christianity, but it is certainly compatible. And so this is one
of my favorite lines from the Old Testament, and that can take us very powerfully into stillness. And
this line is: "Be still and know that I am God." Meaning, God is found precisely in that inner stillness;
through the realm of inner stillness that you can reach what we call God, but which nobody can
understand through the mind. It's the mystery. The mystery which you cannot really explain or name,
which we call God, is the depth of that. We touch that when we go into stillness. So this beautiful line
points to that inner experience. So I'll say it again, and when I've said it, you just become still for a
moment. "Be still and know that I am God."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love that. That's one of my favorite Bible passages. That and "Lead me
to the rock that is higher than I."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, todaytonightwe're discussing Chapter 9, your inner purpose.
Finding your purposes is what I believe we're all put on the planet to do. So many people spend their
lives trying to figure out, "What job, what job to do, what to do, what to do, what to do?" I think when
you figure out what your purpose is and you align the outer purpose with the inner purpose, then the
job really doesn't matter, right?
true.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's the essence of what you're saying in this chapter. Let us begin,
page 257. "As soon as you arise above mere survival, the question of meaning and purpose becomes of
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paramount importance in your life. Many people feel caught up in the routines of daily living," you
say, "that seem to deprive their life of significance. Some believe life is passing them by or has passed
them by already. Others feel severely restricted by the demands of their job and supporting a family. ...
Some are consumed by stress lost in frantic doing. Many people long for the freedom and
expansion that prosperity promises. Others already enjoy the freedom that comes with prosperity and
discover that even that is not enough to endow their lives with meaning. There is no substitute for
finding true purpose." So how do we do it?
what you just read basically, of course, means that many people spend their lives in a state of almost
permanent dissatisfaction.

Unfortunately. So they may be looking for some purpose, or they may have given up hope that there is
some purpose for them, and they're just surviving or making a living.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or caught up in the doing.

Caught up in the doing, in the stress of it.
so, usually, when we talk about purpose, when people talk about purpose, they think of purpose in
terms of future. "Where am I going, what am I supposed to do, what's the direction I'm going in, what
is my goal, the goal I want to achieve?" And that, of course, is there, it has its place, but I call that the
outer purpose. More fundamental than the outer purpose is what people usually overlook, and that is
the realization that what matters most is finding your inner purpose. Now, to most people that initially
doesn't mean anything, inner purpose.
this is why I explain it briefly in the dialogue that is there in that chapter where somebody asks about,
"I want to know what my purpose is," and I tell that person, "Your purpose is to be here at this moment
and asking that question because this is where you are."
Page 2 of 37
inner purpose is aligning your life fully with the present moment. So that you are no longer out of
alignment with the present moment, which leads to the state of dissatisfaction that we talked about that
is the reality for many people. So you have to go, first of all, beyond the state of dissatisfaction that is
so many people's reality.
you cannot go beyond the state of dissatisfaction through some future goal that says, "One day I would
like to be in a state of fulfillment or satisfaction." No. You have to enter the state of fulfillment and
satisfaction by becoming one internally with the present moment. And your purpose thenyour inner
purposeis that alignment with where you are right now, to be totally where you are and whatever
you are doing, even if it doesn't look like yourthe life purpose foryou want for the next 30 years.

Whatever you doing now, to be total in doing it. No matter what it is, to be true to life by being true to
this moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. As you say on page 271, "There is always only this one step, and
so you give it your fullest attention. This doesn't mean that you don't know where you're going; it just
means that the step you're taking right now is primary, the destination secondary. And what you
encounter at your destination once you get there depends on the quality of this one step." I love this so
much because I discovered this when I was in the third grade. I couldn't articulate it this way in the
third grade. When I was in the third grade, I turned in a book report early in Ms. Driver's class. And the
reaction I got from my third grade teacher taught meor informed methat when you do your best,
when you do your best in any given moment, that is well received because my third grade teacher told
all the other teachers in the teachers' lounge, and I became known as this kid who really loved to read.
And that's why we're sitting here today because of that. But I learned in the third grade, this whole
process of whatever you're doing in any given moment, if you do it your best, it leads you to the next
best moment. So you don't have to worry about what's the next moment coming if you only do your
best in this moment.
right. Because when the next moment comes, it comes as this moment.
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future, you never experience the future as the future, you experience the future when it comes as the
now because that's all there is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's all there ever is.
that's an amazing realization for people to realize life is always just this. It's always the now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it's interesting because last week we had Nick from the Bodhi
Tree, and you said, and when Nick was up talking about, he had to, "Well, you have to worry about
your bills," and you said, "Well, you don't have to worry about your bills."
have to pay your bills.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You have to pay your bills, but you don't have to worry about paying
your bills. I don't know about the rest of you, but that lesson has sort of been with me all week. So
anytime I would find myself in the mind worrying about something, I go, "I don't have to worry about
this. I can either figure out what to do about it or release that thought."
Yes.

the bill is here but the money is not there right now, "I can't do anything," put it aside, and then
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Put it aside.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): See,
"What action can I take now?" And then you do whatever action you can take now. If you can't take
any action, then you just be with it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but I love that when I read that, "There is always only this one
step." Until you give this one step your fullest attention, that's in middle of page 271, everybody, "and
this doesn't mean you don't know where you're going; it just means that this step is primary, the
destination is secondary." And what happens is most people are living their lives as though the
destination, the end is what it's all about.
Page 4 of 37
As if the end were more important than now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Than the means.
means. And so the means and the end are, however, are one.

there's dissatisfaction and a denial of the present moment, which is a denial of life.

You're not honoring life if you don't honor this moment by being open to this moment, then that is how
you will experience the future because the future is no more than an extension of now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. You also say on page 271, "The unconscious assumption behind
all such action is that success is a future event, and that the end justifies the means. But the end and the
means are one." You say that. "Let's say you're a businessperson and after two years of stress and strain
you finally manage to come out with a product, a service that sells well and makes money. Success? In
conventional terms, yes. In reality, you spent two years polluting your body as well as the earth with
negative energy," you made everybody crazy. We don't say that, but you made everybody and
everybody around you crazy and affected others you didn't even know. "The unconscious assumption
behind all of this action is that success is a future event, and that the end justifies the means. But the
end and the means are one. And if the means did not contribute to human happiness, neither will the
end." So whatever the end result is, it's going to carry the energy of what it took to get there.
that's it, yes, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's exciting.
And that means you actually, you determine what kind of future you're going to experience by
deciding to be totally aligned with the present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. It's your state of conscious now that will determine
whatever is manifested in the future. And when that happens, that will just be now.
Page 5 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. I got that very much. Okay. So let's continue with this lesson
before we go to Ivy a little bit. You say "The true or primary purpose of your life cannot be found on
the outer level." To me, that's the essence of what this book is all about. Everybody who's searching
and waiting for answers and looking for it on the outer level: "It does not concern what you do, but
what you arethat is to say, your state of consciousness. So the most important thing to realize is this:
Your life has an inner purpose and an outer purpose. Inner purpose concerns Being and is primary,
outer purpose concerns doing and is secondary." Do you want to elaborate on that?

once you realize that the primary purpose of your life is the innerand this is what becomes the main
purposethen the secondary purpose, the outer purpose falls into place. By being true to life and being
true to now, life will bring to you whatever is most appropriate as far as your inner purpose is
concerned. Life will become helpful. Suddenly, sometimes the helpful idea comes from within, a
sudden realization. "Oh, this is what I want to do; this is what I have to do." But the realization only
came because you were aligned with the present moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let's say this. Everybodyeverybody who is born is alive and
breathinghas an inner purpose.
The inner purpose is the same for all of humanity, which is being aligned with life, saying yes to life
by saying yes to now. Aligned with the power of the present moment, which is the power of life. That's
everybody's purpose. Then the outer purpose varies from person to person. How that translates into
what you do varies from person to person. And even in one lifetime it can vary. You may doyou
have a certain outer purpose for 10 or 20 years of your life, and suddenly it changes completely. So
that varies and is subject to time. It doesn't necessarily last you a whole lifetime, whatever you do.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say, "Finding and living in alignment with the inner purpose is the
foundation of fulfilling your outer purpose. It is the basis for true success. Without that alignment, you
can still achieve certain things through effort, struggle, determination, and sheer hard work or cunning.
But there is no joy in such endeavor, and it invariably ends in some form of suffering."
that is you're struggling to make it, you're struggling and fighting, and basically you're makingyou're
fighting against life or the world. Me against the universe is what the ego, how the ego sees it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And isn't it sort of like swimming upstream? I always compare it to
swimming upstream when you're, like, going against the grain of your life. There's a flow to all of our
lives. And if you are suffering, if you are in pain, if you can't figure out what it is you're supposed to
Page 6 of 37
do, if you're worried, worried, worried all the time, it is because you're going against the flow or the
grain of your life. Means you're going against inner purpose.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That when you align with inner purpose, everything flows.
in negative state, whenever negativity arises and you dwell in negative inner states, then you are not
going with the flow of life. You're against the flow of life. And then you experience life as not helpful.
You experience life as, even as, hostile because you're in a state of inner denial. You're in a state of
negativity, you're not open to life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, I got that. I really got that. I really got that. Another friend of
mine, a teacher who wrote a book called Seat of the Soul, Gary Zukav, calls it, says, "When the
personality or ego comes to serve the energy of the soul," or consciousness, we've been calling it that.
"When the personality comes to serve the energy of the soul, that is authentic empowerment." I take
that to mean, from the Seat of the Soul, that when you align your personality or use your personality to
serve the inner purposeto serve the soul or the consciousnessthen you are your most powerful in
the world.
yes. And then you're not run by the mind anymore because the mind becomes the servant of what I
sometimes call awareness or presence. The mind then serves something greater than itself, which is a
consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say on page 259, "Instead of being lost in your thinking, when you
are awake you recognize yourself as the awareness behind it. Thinking then ceases to be a self-serving
autonomous activity that takes possession of you and runs your life. Awareness takes over from
thinking. Instead of being in charge of your life," love this everybody, "instead of being in charge of
your life, thinking becomes the servant of awareness."
And then the mind is quite helpful. So the mind can be used for many wonderful things.
Page 7 of 37
it no longer controls you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. So in essence, our goal on earth as human beingsthese
spiritual beings in the body, higher consciousness inside this flesh-filled membranous whatever,
bodyour goal is to allow the light of inner purpose or consciousness to come through.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everything that we do.
This is why we're here, and that is then also the entire universe isthe purpose of the universe, one
could say, is the flowering of consciousness.

moves toward more and more consciousness. So we then become bringers of that, which is why we're
here. So then the consciousnessyou could call it the light, the light of the source, the light of God
comes through the human form.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And so when you allow the light of Godthe light of
consciousnessto come through you, and it is allowed to fuel whatever it is you do, whatever it is you
do will be fueled with a spiritual power that will allow you to be the best at what you do.
And then that also means that what you do is not of primary importance, but how you do what you do
is what matters.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How you do it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): How
you do it. And you could be doing something that the world regard as relatively insignificant and yet
make an enormous difference to the consciousness of the planet.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ivy is Skyping us from her living room in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Ivy. I
here you have a question about one of my favorite quotes. Go ahead, what is the question?
IVY: Yeah, well, my question deals with trying to find a career path that merges your inner purpose
with outer purpose. And on the top of page 274, you say, Eckhart says, "There may be a period of
insecurity and uncertainty." And he goes on to say that, if "you are able to live with uncertainty, even
Page 8 of 37
enjoy it you become comfortable with uncertainty, infinite possibilities open up in your life." And
my question is this: I'm 26 years old, and the past few months I've tried to find a career path that
merges my inner purpose with my outer purpose and haven't really been able to do so. I began to think
a lot about my life's purpose and question whether or not I would ever find a career that merged my
life's work with something I was passionate about. So my question really is twofold. The first is how
should I approach finding a career that is fulfilling but doesn't strengthen my ego. And secondly, and
perhaps a more pressing question for me, is how do I do this while also becoming comfortable and
embracing the uncertainty that's defining my life right now?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good questions.
So to what extent have you become successful in embracing and accepting this time of your life that
you don't know yet what your purpose is, to what extent are you able to say, "Well, can I become
comfortable with not knowing?" Have you able to do that?
IVY: I, there are periods where I've been able to, but mostly it's just a lot of thinking and feeling very
uncomfortable about not knowing.
and often the uncomfortableness are certain thoughts that go through your mind that tell you it's not
okay to be in this state. And then you have certain emotions, which are the body's reaction to those
thoughts. So when these thoughts arise, they tell you, "It's not okay. The way you are right now is not
okay." Realize that these are thoughts that arise in your mind, conditioned by the surrounding culture
and so on, and you don't necessarily need to believe in each thought that comes and tells you it's not
okay not to know what to do. Life is an adventure. It's not a packaged tour when you travel. You can
take a packaged tour, and everything is already plannedthere's no uncertainty and everywhere you
go to a nice hotel in an exotic country, but you won't even know it's exotic because your hotel room is
the same as every other hotel room. You're totallyeverything is planned, you know beforehand
where you're going to be in 10 days time exactly. That's not an adventure, and it's unlikely that you are
going to evolve internally through a trip like that. But if you went into a true trip into some exotic
country, thrown back on your own resources, then you would encounter true adventure. And you
would probably not be the same person when you come back. Why not? Because we're constantly
faced with uncertainty. And if you're able to accept it, you can actually enjoy the adventure. If you
cannot accept, it'sI'm giving this analogy of a trip because life is a journey.
so the person who cannot enjoy the uncertainty when adventure comes is going to be in a continuous
state of negativity, of fear. "I don't want to be here. I'd rather be at home." So realize that life is an
adventure, and part of the adventure of life is being in that state that you are in now. If everything were
Page 9 of 37
already clear to you now, everything were already mapped out, there would be no evolution of yourself
as a human being.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And may I say, Ivy, that is part of what being 26 is all about. That's what
26 is. You're trying to figure it out. That is
IVY: Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what the 20s are for.
and another very helpful thing to remember is one of the most wonderful things in your period of life is
to make mistakes. Because mistakes means you realize, "Oh, that's notthat wasn't my purpose."
so you are a little bit closer to your true purpose, and then perhaps you think, "Oh, maybe that is my
purpose," and then you, after a while you realize, "No, that's not." It's very helpful to make mistakes
because gradually you begin to realize what it is that is right for you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And many times as Eckhart says in this chapter, Ivy, and you will
find in your 20s, the 20s are about figuring out where you want to be, and there's this frustration. That's
why they call that show The Young and the Restless because there's restlessness about it. And I know
that because I've kept journals since I was 15. In my 20s I'm just restless, restless, restless. And when I
was your age, 26, I was an anchorwoman on television doing the evening news. I hated it every single
day. And what I now realize, and even then, my displeasure with being in that place every day was
really informing me what I needed to do. What I needed to do was to get out of that space. And many
times, being in a space that you can clearly identify as, "This isI do not want to do this." I want to be
in television, I knew, but I do not want to do this. And, you know, and I had my father and everybody
around saying, "You're going to give up that job in television?" I knew I could not do that. News felt
exploitive to me. So, many times if you're in a position where you know what you don't want to do,
isn't that also helpful, Eckhart?
yes, yes. For a while, I thought my life purpose was to an academic at university. And then come to
realization after years of spending time working hard to become a professor, I realized that's not my
life purpose at all. But I had to go through it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Didn't you give up a promising career as an academia?
Page 10 of 37
Yes. I gave up the PhD, I gave up the promising career, and my relatives, my mother thought I was
insane to give that up, but I knew this is what I had to do. It was so clear; there was no doubt about it
anymore. For a little while there was doubt, and then the realization was so strong, I had to walk out of
there. And that led to a period of uncertainty for a few years. I didn't know, what am I supposed to with
my life? Here I am, I was just barely managing to survive, and gradually, I lived, but I was not
unhappy. I was happy with the present moment then already. Then, gradually, something evolved;
people started asking me questions. People that I met casually in parks, casually, and gradually, kind of
spiritual teaching started to happen. And after a little while when somebody called me for the first
time, "Oh, you're a spiritual teacher." It's, "Oh, that's what I am." And so the purpose came by itself. It
came just out of that state of just being with what is and not being unhappy with not knowing. Being at
ease with not knowing. Then it's much more likely to come to you when you're at ease with not
knowing. So the question that you can ask yourself, "Can I be at ease with not knowing?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With not knowing. This is what you say on 274 that Ivy had mentioned
earlier, "You become comfortable with uncertainty, infinite possibilities open up in your life."
And it means when you become comfortable with uncertainty, it means "fear is no longer a dominant
factor in what you do and no longer prevents you from taking action to initiate change." That's the big
thing.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because as long as you are afraid, you cannot allow the energy of what
is supposed to happen to come into your life. As long as you're afraid, right? Fear blocks that.
that's right, yes. Yes. So be alert and watch your mind to see what kind of thoughts it produces. There
also, there may be the emotion of fear, as Oprah says, arising occasionally, associated with a thought.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like, "What's going to happen to me?"
Because the mind wants to know what the future is going to bring up. But how dread life would be
how dreadfully boring it would beif you knew already what's going to happen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, part of that is because, too, people get afraid, because of, again,
what Nick saidNick is our spiritual teacher this weekbecause of what Nick said last week about
worrying about your bills because you're living outside yourself, you're creating more debt, creating
more debt, creating more debt, allowing yourself to beto operate from the thinking mind. At the time
that you made these decisions for yourself, you were living on and practically, you said, at the poverty
level.
Page 11 of 37
yes. And so you survive somehow. You make it. One more question before you go, is there anything in
your life that you truly enjoy? Are there certain things that you enjoy doing that may not be necessarily
associated in your mind with career.
IVY: Not really, that I can think of. Nothing I can think of.

Okay, then what's left is for you to enjoy the present moment and make that your spiritual practice.
IVY: Okay.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But I thought you were saying earlier, Ivy, about, you know, trying to
align your passion, what you love and getting paid for it. Isn't that what you were talking about earlier?
IVY: Yes. Well, something I was passionate about. To (inaudible) what I'm passionate about once I
figure that out. I don't really know what that is right now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, I willto reiterate something that Eckhart was saying last
weekit doesn't come out of your head. For everybody who's looking for that answer for the purpose
of your life or what should I be doing, it does not come from your head. It's not something you're ever
going to think up.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't think it. It comes from that space that we opened tonight's
session with being still and knowing that I am God. Being still and allowing the presence of a universal
energythe presence of consciousnessto come through you in such a way that it's a feeling; it is a
feeling. It is not something you're going to think up how to do it. And you will just, you will start to
feel that, "I feel better doing this thing than I feel doing the other thing." It's a feeling that comes to
you, not something that comes into your head, correct?
right, yes. And you need to be careful that you are not in a state of dissatisfaction because when you're
in dissatisfaction, the answer is not likely to come, neither from within, nor from without. So keep your
inner space clear, aligned with now so that no negativity arises.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then may I add, also, for you and everybody else who is trying to
get this whole idea of purpose, some clarity about that. When you allow yourself to be still with it,
you're not afraid of the uncertainty. The universe rises up to meet you. The world, Eckhart says in here,
Page 12 of 37
I can't remember what page in this chapter, but he talks about how coincidences happen, you know.
Little things and big things happen. So you then have to be alert and paying attention to your life so
when the opening shows itself, you're ready.
And that's much more likely to come when you're in a state of clarity aligned with now. Then the
answer can come from within or the answer can come from without.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As

some chance encounter, something you see in the paper.

something you can't even think where it might come from. A synchronistic event, a coincidence.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. It shows itself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, in ways that you hadn't seen before. Thank you Ivy from
Richmond, Virginia.
IVY: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. So you say on 261, "While you are perhaps still
waiting for something significant to happen to your life, you may not realize that the most significant
thing that can happen to a human being has already happened within you: the beginning of the
separation process of thinking and awareness."

Which is the awakening, which is another way of explaining what the term "awakening" means. That
before your awarenessor your consciousnesswas totally identified with thought processes, with
thinking. But now, and this is the case for everybody who reads this book and finds it meaningful.

means, if you are reading this book and you find it meaningfulsomething within your respondsit
means you have already begun to awaken.
Page 13 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To awaken. Yeah.
haven't, the book will be meaningless.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it, got it. You're saying, "As long as you are unaware of Being," on
263, "you will seek meaning only within dimension of doing," the dimension of doing, "and the future,
that is to say, the dimension of time. And whatever meaning or fulfillment you find will dissolve. ...
Invariably, it will be destroyed by time. Any meaning we find on that level is true only relatively and
temporarily." So you're saying looking outside yourself, you're not going to find anything.
that's right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let's go to the Bodhi Tree Bookstore in West Hollywood. Is Nick
there tonight? Well, Nick, step on up to the microphone. You're back. So glad to see you.
NICK: Good to be here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Do you have a question tonight?
NICK: I do. And actually, my question kind of relies on a premise that's not exactly stated in the book,
but the premise is "God is love." And if god is love, and you love what you're doing as far as a career,
then God, does God then sanction that career, is it then meant to be? Is it right iflet's say if you don't
go to church, but if you enjoy doing something like readingand if you're reading constantly and you
get a more spiritual feeling reading than ever walking into a church, then isn't that right? Isn't that in
alignment withor is love not anything that matters in a career choice?
good question. Now, love, of course, is used in a very loose sense. It means so many different things to
different people, the expression "I love this or that" or "I love doing this or that" is used casually by
people, often meaning totally different things. For example, if somebody is obsessed with what they do
in an ego waytotally focused but in a negative way to a large extent, totally obsessed with what
they're doing, and theyan outside observer might say, "Oh, he loves what he's doing. He loves it so
much that he gets up at 5 every morning and doesn't leave the office until 10 at night." But he's totally
obsessed with what he's doing, and there's no love in it. It's an obsession. But because love is used in
such a loose way, sometimes we call that love. So when you actually love what you're doing, it's a
totally different energy field that moves into what you are doing. It means you are aligned completely
with what you do. And then, yes, then you do bring a different consciousness. You bring the
unconditioned consciousness into this world through whatever you do. And it might be a doing or it
may just be being somewhere. You mentioned a church. You can find God in many places. Any place
is holy, and the present moment, when you only pay attention to it completely, then you realize,
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actually, it's sacred. The present moment is sacred. When you're really paying attention to it, then it
doesn't matter where you areyou can be in a building, you can be out in nature, you can be in the
middle of the traffic. And you really bring your attention to this moment, and you realize, "There is
sacredness here." You may be able to feel it more deeply when you're out in nature than in the middle
of L.A. freeway. But even there it can be sensed if you are present enough. And there, that's love.
There love arises, and if you're doing something, and you're total in what you donot obsessed, not
wanting the future more than you want the present, but totally wanting the present, totally wanting
what you are doingthen, yes, then you love what you do, and that is true love. And anybody who
embodies that energy is creating the new earth.
NICK: So that's correct then.
NICK: There's a difference, I guess I'm thinking of Joseph Campbell where he talks about following
your bliss, and he talks about how appetitive desires like eating and sex and drugsthings through the
body, love that come through the bodyare nothing compared to the love that comes from the spirit,
which makes everything else pale in comparison, and that is the bliss that Joseph Campbell talks about.
NICK: And that's what Ithat's what I think you mean when you say that we're present and we're
doing what we're supposed to do because we feel that feeling that makes everything else pale in
comparison.
right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Nick, that's what he's talking about at the bottom of 261, "So
while you're perhaps still waiting for something significant to happen in your life, you may not realize
that the most significant thing that can happen has already happened within you: the beginning of
the separation process of thinking and awareness." When you take yourself out of your head and take
yourself out of the doing, doing, doing, doing and allow yourself to connect with the consciousness
or spirit, or soul, whichever word you want to use for itthat is connected to all consciousness. The
spirit that is connected to the greater spirit is what it's talking about.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got it, Nick.
NICK: Thanks.
Page 15 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You've got it.
NICK: It's a lot of hard work, what can I say?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nick, listen, I didn't worry this week because he's told you not to worry.
Have you been worried about your bills this week?
NICK: Yeah, a little bit.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, wow. Thanks everybody at the Bodhi Tree.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): One
more thing, just to add to this. When the doingwhen you're doing in that state of consciousness, that
means whatever you do is not primarily a means to an end.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But an
end in itself.
know what you want to achieve through the doing, that's fine, but the essence of the doing is in the
doing, not the goal that you want to achieve through it. So often the question you can ask yourself is,
"Is what I'm doing right now primarily a means to an end, or am I total in what I do?" And there's a
different quality flows into what you do when it is not just a means to an end. And that is doing in the
state of presence, different energy flows into that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love that. I also love at the bottom of 263. You say, "For example, if
caring for your children gives meaning to your life"because everybody's looking for meaning
"what happens to the meaning when they don't need you and perhaps don't even listen to you anymore?
If helping others gives meaning to your life, you depend on others being worse off than yourself so that
your life can continue to be meaningful and you can feel good about yourself. If the desire to excel,
win, or succeed," I'm at the top of page 264, everybody, "at this or that activity provides you with
meaning, what if you never win or your winning streak comes to an end? 'Making it' in whatever
field is only meaningful as long as there are thousands or millions of others who don't make it, so you
need other human beings to 'fail' so that your life can have meaning." I was going to ask, though, what
if you're making it, you're aligned with your purpose?
Page 16 of 37
Now after that it doesn't say that those things should not be pursued immediately after what you just
read.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, it says, "I am not saying here that helping others, caring for your
children, or striving for excellence in whatever field are not worthwhile things to do. For many people,
they're important." In the end though, you say, "It means you should connect into your inner, primary
purpose, so that a deeper meaning flows into what you do."
For example then, we talked about looking after your children and that being the main purpose of your
life, and again, we have the two dimensions of purpose: outer purpose ,which is what a good parent
does anyway. You look after the needs of the child, and you protect the child as much as possible. But
it's the inner purpose there also, which the inner purpose is there when a field of awareness arises
between you and the child. There's a space. Are you able to give the child spaciousness or space? Are
you able to be open and listen to the child in a nonjudgmental way?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you able to be with your child?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Be,
are you able to be with your child, or are you lost in doing? Is it continuous doing?

can you bring being into your relationship with your child? And if you bring being in, that is, you're
fulfilling the inner purpose. Then when the child grows up, it's less, much less likely or improbable that
you will get attached to your role of parent. You will then be able to let go of the role. And then be
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then able to be whatever you need to be.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): At any given situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. You say, "If you ignore your inner purpose," that's why I keep
reading from the book because I think I want to stress how important it is to connect to inner purpose.
"If you ignore your inner purpose," bottom of 264, "no matter what you do, even if it looks spiritual,
the ego will creep into how you do it, and so the means will corrupt the end. The common saying, 'The
road to hell is paved with good intentions' points to this truth. In other words, not your aims or actions
Page 17 of 37
are primary, but the state of consciousness out of which they come. Fulfilling your primary purpose is
laying the foundation for a new reality, a new earth." Doesn't that mean that it's not just what you do,
but it's the intention behind once you do it?
the consciousness that flows into what you do. And there's nofuture is always secondary in the
doing. That is theyour future is not that you look forward to primarily, but totality in what you do,
being totally here. Any performer, anyartists know this very well. I, can you be, when you're total,
then completely different energy arises.

sometimes, you see, the moment the artist performs sometimes is an empowerment that suddenly
comes in because then it's sometimes only then that this person can be absolutely total in the present
moment.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see that. I was with Tina Turner and Cher this
weekend for a show that we're doing on May 8. Everybody, don't miss that, Tina Turner and Cher. And
watching them in rehearsal, sitting in the, we're just all sitting in the bleachers and watching. And then
when they each came to the stage, something happened where there was like, they were infused by
something from another level that you could see. Something came over them on the stage.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And whatever that was, this is so interesting watching them perform to
(inaudible), you say, "I want some of that." I want some of that. And what that is is the present or level
of consciousness that they're bringing. Not just the beat and rock 'n' roll.
that's also what people respond to. They go there because they can sense there's something there that is
very powerful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very powerful, yeah. Inspiration and enthusiasm.
Page 18 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And you say when the combination of inspiration and enthusiasm,
something happens that's bigger than one person.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. So Gwen and Bob have spent the last 17 years teaching at schools
on U.S. military bases throughout Europe. They now live outside Munich, Germany, and are Skyping
us from their kitchen. Hi, Gwen and Bob from Munich.
GWEN: Hi, Oprah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello to you all. Is it the middle of the night there or early morning?
GWEN: Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What's your question?
GWEN: Well, my question's about apologizing. I'm reading on page 258, we say the most important
thing to realize is your life has inner and outer purpose. And I have found that apologizing when it's the
right time helps me get back in alignment. However, when I have been wronged by someone, I expect
to hear that apology to help build the relationship and get it back to a positive way. And I like feeling
comfortable around others, and when there's not closure and notand apologies don't come, I feel very
uncomfortable. And I'm beginning to wonder if this is my ego at play, and how can I maintain an inner
and outer alignment when I don't feel I have an appropriate apology from the person I expect it from?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, you just answered your own question, really. I'm going to let
Eckhart answer you. But you just answered your own question cause you just key word here:
appropriate. "I have not received the appropriate apology from people." That would be your ego that
needs that appropriate apology. Take it away, Eckhart. Mr. Tolle.

Adding to that, of course, the ego, another thing the ego does is it keeps accounts, and it says, "You
owe me." And in this case it says, "You owe me an apology." Now, this is good because this is an
opportunity for you to become aware of the ego in you. So whenever the ego arises and you recognize
it as the ego, it's a great opportunity of saying, "Oh, there's the ego." There are the thoughts that the ego
produces in my mind which say, "He should apologize. She should have apologized." And another
thought that comes: "I can't be comfortable with this person anymore unless he or she apologizes."
You can observe the thoughts that the ego produces, and you can observe the emotions that are there as
Page 19 of 37
a result of those thoughts. So it's a wonderful opportunity for you to see your own ego, which is no
more than the human ego. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you, but to observe ego in
action. This is always the greatest thing toand then at that moment when you become aware of this
kind of thought emotional, mental emotional pattern in you, who are you? When you recognize it,
you're already in the space of awareness from where you recognize it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You take away its power.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You diminish its power.
so peoplethere are many reasons why people don't apologize. People don't apologize because they
may not even know that there is anything to apologize in their view of things. Or they may not
apologize because their interpretation of what's happened is the complete opposite of your
interpretation. Perhaps they thinkor their ego thinksthat you should apologize. Or, or
GWEN: Well, I'd like to think I do. I get it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But also that's how you're using it based on what you're saying. Based
on what you just told us here, it's your ego's way of feeling superior because you like to think you do
and you're the one that goes and says, "Well, I apologized and you didn't."

you can keep a resentment inside for quite a whilean inner resentmentwhenever you think of that
person or you meet that person. There's a little resentment at the back, which is also the ego. The ego
loves hanging on to resentments. And when resentments go on for a long time, as I've described
somewhere in the book, they've become grievances. Grievances are heavy, long-term resentments. So
you can observe that in yourself, and again be happy that you're observing, able to observe the ego in
you. It's a wonderful thing to be able to do that. And of course, and then another person, the other
person who is not apologizing, perhaps it's the ego who prevents them from apologizing because the
ego in many peoplethis is not a particular function perhaps of your ego, but in many other people
the ego finds it almost impossible to apologize because it believes that it would be losing something by
apologizing, which of course is a delusion. So these things happened. It's a wonderful opportunity for
you to see your own ego, and by seeing it, you realize the awareness grows in you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Bob, what's your question for Eckhart?
BOB: Yes. On page 265, Eckhart refers to"your external purpose becomes charged with spiritual
power because your aims and intentions will be one with the evolutionary impulse of the universe."
Page 20 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love that.
BOB: What is the evolutionary impulse of the universe?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is so great. Let's read that one more time. "Once that foundation"
he says. "Fulfilling your primary purpose is laying the foundation for a new reality, a new earth. Once
that foundation is there, your external purpose becomes charged with spiritual power because your
aims and intentions will be one with the evolutionary impulse of the universe." Thank you, cause I had
written, "Aha!," and there are three littleI read it three times, and I got stars, circles, everything
around that. Thank you for bringing that up, Bob. What do you mean by that?
I'm not sending you back to the book, but the answer somewhere in the book. I'm not sending you there
now, so let's look at it. The evolutionary purpose of the universe is growth of consciousness. It's going
towardsomething is flowing into this world of so-called matter, physicality. Something is flowing
into this world of physicality or matter that comes from a different dimension almost, one could say.
How do I know this? Because I know it in myself. I know it. I've observed it in other people too.
Something is flowing into this world of thisit seems to be very heavy, the heaviness of matter.
Something very different flows in, which I call consciousness. Which you can call spirit. So a spirit is
beginninghas already started a long time ago, but now beginning more fully through the human form
amongst other formsto come into this world more and more fully. This is the arising of awareness,
the arising of presence. And all that is part of the greater evolution because there's a famous dictum,
which is so true, "As above, so below." So whatever happens here on this planet and in the human
form will be reflected throughout the universe. These are universal movements. "As above, so below.
As below, so above." So what happens here in the microcosm of the earth will also be happening in the
macrocosm. So when I saypeople might ask me, "How do you know whatwhat the, purpose of the
universe is, the evolution of the universe is?" Because I know it in myself. If you know it in yourself,
you know many, many answers even about the macrocosm because the macrocosm is no more that a
reflection of the inner.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you see it all the time in nature.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see it all the time in nature, you see it all the time in nature. The
whole process that's going on in nature is also going on with humans. We compare ourselves to nature.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The principles are the same.
Page 21 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Did that answer your question, Bob?
BOB: Kind of.
don't, you'll have to really know the answer, you have to go within. It's not through the mind or
through somebody like listening to me and then saying, "Okay, I believe what you said." I don't want
anybody to believe what I said. I want people to really go within and verify within themselves whether
or not that is true in their own experience. So by becoming more conscious of your inner being, many
answers will come.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Let me take a stab at it, interpreting what I hear Eckhart saying.
He's saying that there's a universal source or power of energy that all of us that we all stem from that
universal power or source or energy. You're with me, right? You can call it God, you can call it
whatever you choose to call it, you can call it higher consciousness, or you can call it universal energy,
you can call it the divine. When you tap into the part of you that iswe're calling consciousness or
presence or inner purposewhen you tap into that, that is connected to the source of all universal
power and energy. Are you with me so far?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And when you tap into that part of you that is connected to all
universal power and energy, your aims and intentions will be one with what all universal power and
energy is striving for. And what it's striving for is for you to allow the consciousness to come through
you as a human being. So that's what he means by evolutionary impulse. Impulse of the universe is to
support you and you bringing about your higher consciousness. That's why you're here is to allow that
part of you that is connected to all that is universal energy, the source or God. To better explain it, it is
the God in you. When you allow the God in you to come forth, the God of all things supports that.
you just gave us a demonstration of that because the whole energy shifted when you spoke those
words. Very powerful energy came through. So beyond what you said, energy that came through with
it was actually a demonstration of that.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. Did it? Did it? You got it now, Bob?
BOB: Yeah, can I ask one more thing?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sure, sure.
Page 22 of 37
BOB: Would there be a way to convey Eckhart's teaching on awareness to Christians who are probably
offended by labels like evolution. Is there a way to convey this message
GWEN: Of the awakening, without getting into the evolution.
BOB: There are people who are going really shut down when they hear the word "evolution."
if they're completely shut down then of course there's no way they're going to listen to you. But not all
those people are going to be completely shut down. I don't believe that evolution is necessarily a
problem for all Christians.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and evolutionary process, the evolutionary impulse of the
universe is about the evolvement as the earthbecause even as Christians you know that the earth
keeps evolving, it keeps evolving, it keeps moving forward. We as human beings keep evolving.
can see it in your own life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can see it in your own life. You're not the same as you were 25
years ago. That's your evolutionary process as Bob and Gwen here on the planet. Bob and Gwen have
evolved as Christians.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And even as you are a practicing Christian, in the beginning of
practicing Christianity, your faith may not be as strong or you may not be as tested, but you evolved in
the process of your Christianity. Actually, can you ask somebody in the back to bring me the e-mail,
Dean, that came in from a message board this week? I thought the woman who talked about father son
and Holy Ghost as consciousness, and there was a beautiful e-mail that came on the message board
from a woman who is practicing Christian who said she was Catholic. And I'm going to try to get the
e-mails. Because she bestand I had a, I had an aha! moment reading it because I thought, "Oh, that's
right!" The Holy Trinity, the Holy Spirit is the higher consciousness that you're talking about. And you
just call it consciousness. But as a Christian, it is the Holy Spirit where Jesus said, "I leave you with
the holy spirit."
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see that, right, Bob and Gwen?
Page 23 of 37
GWEN: Oh, yeah. It's just the use of that word sometimes puts some people off that might otherwise
have the door to be awakened. And just knowing that word is in the book, they might just say, "Whoa,
I'm not quite ready to do that yet."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Evolution.

Evolution. Well, it will particularly put people off who take a literal, absolutely literal interpretation of
Genesis. But most Christians, I believe, don't take an absolutely literal interpretation of Genesis. And
they would be perhaps
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And if you do, then that's not for you.
that's, it's fine.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Then this isn't the path that you need to follow.
yes. But if you're open to the idea that this creation may not be literally true, but that it is actually a
description of an evolutionary process, not of blind chancethis is what Christians object to mostly. I
also see it; it's absurd. It's not blind chance. Evolution is not something coming together over billions
of years of atoms and molecules accidentally bring about this beautiful universe. I do not believe that
there is no guiding intelligence behind evolution. There is. That is so obvious when you look at the
world and you look at yourself. You know the famous analogy of the monkey and the typewriter?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, I don't.
they say
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): There's a famous analogy about a monkey and a typewriter?
is to do withto describe what evolution means by people who believe it is blind chance. It's a
mechanical mechanistic thing that how evolution happened. All chance events that would mean if you
put a monkey at a typewriter, and this monkey is immortal, and this monkey starts hitting the keys of
the typewriter and goes on for a billion years or two billion years or longer, they say if evolution as
chance development is true, then eventually the monkey is going to produce by chance the works of
Shakespeare over a billion years.
Page 24 of 37
not going to happen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. I missed that monkey and the typewriter analogy somewhere in
my college upbringing.
you see the
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, I see it. I see it. Here's a quote. Bob and Gwen, can we go back to
them? This is from somebody named Button20. Did you see this last week?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't see the message boards, do you? Actually she's Joannie in
Long Beach, actually. She said, "My faith was strong." "Oprah, Oprah, Oprah, my faith was strong, but
now it's growing stronger and stronger every day. The words of the Bible," she says, "are just jumping
out at me. How could I have not seen them so clearly before? Like, 'Be still and know that I am God.' 'I
will not leave you alone. I will always be with you.' This book, A New Earth, has put into words what I
always felt from within. As a Catholic, I can describe my faith very simply. It's based on the Holy
Trinity, which is "in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit." That's it in a nutshell. The rest
of the Bible is just a history lesson as to how all that came about. To say it another way, God created
the world, saw what a mess we were making, sent his son down to teach us how to live. Then Jesus
said when he knew he was going to have to leave us, 'I will ask my father, and he will give you another
advocate, the Holy Spirit to be with you always. The spirit of truth which the world cannot accept
because it neither sees nor knows it because it remains in you and will be in you.' John 14:16. And here
it is again," she writes. "John 14:26-27. 'The Holy Spirit that the father will send in my name will teach
you everything and remind you all of that I have told you. Peace I leave to you. My peace I give to
you. Not as the world gives do I give it to you. Do not let your hearts be troubled or afraid. And you
know what, Oprah? I got it this time when I read it. I really got it. People wouldn't be so afraid if they
only knew that the energy flowing through their very being, which I choose to call the holy spirit, is
the most fabulous, wireless connection to the, most powerful source in the universe; the God that
created us. May God bless you and keep you safe in his grace, you are truly one of his messengers."
And that's from Joannie of Long Beach, California. And she write, ends with "Life is a gift; live every
day as a thank you note."
good.
Page 25 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't that fantastic? I mean I just thought this was so fantastic. So happy
to share that with you. That's what one Christian had to say, okay.
GWEN: Thank you. It's very nice.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was great too. Joannie, Long Beach. I almost Skyped her
this week. I thoughtisn't that perfection?
Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was perfection. Thanks, Gwen and Bob, thank you guys.
GWEN: Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Shall we continue here? You say, "Your inner purpose is to awaken. It is
as simple as that. You share purpose with other people on the planetbecause it is the purpose of
humanity." Let's again talk about what it means to awaken. Doesn't the very word "purpose" imply that
you can do something about it? Purpose, means on purpose.
right. I ask that question
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say you can't make it happen, that it is an act of grace, this
awakening.
and what I talk about is the first moment of the awakening. It happens or it doesn't happen. First
moment, which is the disidentification from the stream of thinking and the arising, might only be a
glimpse at first. The arising of awareness. You're suddenly becoming aware that there is a realm
underneath thinking, there is a realm of stillness inside you. You touch it. Maybe you're out in nature.
Suddenly as you did, when you were on the mountain top.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, I had another one. You know what? I had another one just Friday.
This is going to be on this Friday. But this past Friday I was at Tom Cruise's house. You know Tom
Cruise.
personally.
Page 26 of 37
know he jumped on your sofa somewhere.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, you even know that, okay. Okay, we're going to talk about that.
Now I'm jumping on his. I went to his house to jump on his. Anyway, Tom Cruise lives in theI could
cry just thinking about it. He lives in the most magnificent place I have ever seen, read, heard or
experienced in my life. I tell you, I drove through his house through this grove of aspen trees for like a
half mile before we get to the gate. He lives at the top of the mountain, and the house sits in the center,
and you're surrounded by all the mountains of Telluride. We went outside through his bedroom to
stand on the balcony, and there are all these aspen trees around and the mountains and absolute
stillness. Absolute stillness. So much, my eyes started to water. I've never, I've never seen anything
more beautiful or felt anything so deep, so rich. And aside from that time I was on my mountain. And I
said to him, first of all, what it takes to be the kind of person that comes to this, that has that as your
space, and you know, he's had a lot of, you know, things going on in his life. And I said, "No matter
what, you have this. You have this place to come to." Oh, my god. I would justand I felt so filled up
when I left, from the stillness.
yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And we stood out on Tom's balcony and I said, "Tom, can you hear the
silence? It has its own language." He said, "Yeah, you're right, it does. It has its own language."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Was
he already aware of it, or you made him
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, he was. No, he was, he was aware of it, he was aware of it, yeah.

Wonderful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That was my moment with Tom Cruise that you'll get to see. Now, when
you see us on television this Friday, you won't get all of that because it's all about the interview and
stuff, but I had a spiritual moment with Tom at the top of the mountain, yeah.
these are wonderful moments of grace. But you don't necessarily need to be in those beautiful places.
It's a greatit's an act of grace when it happens.
Page 27 of 37
that stillness is primarily an inner dimension, and it can arise anywhere. But sometimes it's good to
have experienced it there where the environment is most conducive to experiencing ultimately the
inner because if you don't feel it on the inner, you won't really be aware of the silence around you.
only through the inner that you can be aware of the outer silence. So to be aware of silence, how can
you be aware of silence only by being still?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because it's only the stillness in you that is aware of the silence. If your mind were totally occupied
with noisy thinking, you would not even know it's still around you. Or you would say to someone,
"Oh, it's very still," and then you would carry on thinking.

Wouldn't really experience it. So there's the equivalent of outer stillness, this is the outer dimension of
spirit.
can sense spirit that's out there in nature. But you can only sense it because you already have it within
you. It's that in you that responds, that senses it. Only people whose mind is not totally noisy can
actually be aware of silence. And so I sometimes observe when I go, I will go for a walk in the forest
every day, and often I see people who are jogging or walking their dogs, and very few are really there.
They're talking on the phone, they have headphones on, they're talking to their friends and all that
immersive thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So they could be anywhere. They could be
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Could
be anywhere.
Page 28 of 37
office.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Someone asked, "Eckhart, everything you say in your book
resonates with spirit. I believe it to be true. However, do people ever ask you how you know all this. If
so, how to respond? Where does your knowledge come from?" This is from Rene in Indianapolis.
Where does your knowledge come from? How do you know what you know?
essence of it comes through a realization. In other words it's by touching the consciousness that one is
that you are. It comes through becoming still and listening for what comes out of the stillness. It's not
primarily based on knowledge, although of course I have read spiritual books, quite a few. I use
sometimes some of the terminology that is already in existence, has been in existence for a long, long
time. But the book is more than just a compilation of other spiritual books that I have read. The
essence of the book is in my own realization. In other words, the answers come by being still. When I
write, I sit there with a note pad, a pen, and become still.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not on computer?
Everything is done by hand. So then I wait for some movement of thought to come out of the stillness.
And then gradually a thought formulates itself, and then there is a critical faculty that says, "Okay,
does that makes sense?" Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't make sense, I become
still again and then perhaps a thought that is more suited to what I can sense comes up ,and then I write
it down.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So did you write this book from a place of inner space? You know, last
week we talked about inner space, and I was a little frustrated until the end of the class because I was
trying to get this concept of inner space across to all of our viewers and listeners. And at the end of last
week's class, as we had gone off the air here, Eckhart said, I said, remember, I said to you, "I'm a little
frustrated," and you said, "Because you cannot understand it through concepts and language, that inner
space isn't something you can understand with your mind."
So as an explanation, it's not very satisfying when one talks about inner stillness and then people try to
understand, "Okay, what is he actually talking about?" And you can see already, when you're in your
head, inner stillness. "What's that about?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That doesn't make any sense.

course it doesn't.
Page 29 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or people say, "It's all that woo-woo stuff."
that's what some journalists often say they come to spirituality and say, "Oh, it's all that stuff. They
don't give themselves a chance. You really, it's, you have to give yourself a chance and see whether
you can sense in yourself that to which these words point. So and only then does it become real and
alive.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is the same thing we're saying to Bob and Gwen, when Bob is
trying to say, "What do you mean by the evolutionary impulse of the universe?" What that really
means is that when you are in alignment, when your inner purpose is aligned with what you do, that
you will be supported by the spirit of God or by universal energy in such a way that life opens up to
you. And people think, "Oh, it's about you being lucky," or, "Gee, isn't that strange that this
happened?" Serendipitous things happen. Things fall into line. Right. When you are in alignment.
that they fall into line, that's one way or another, everybody can experience that, so why not give it a
try? Live as if the present moment were more important than past and future. On a practical level, of
course, you still use past and future. But give your attention to this. Spend some a few days or few
weeks living in that way. Immediately surrendering negativity when it arises and recognizing it as ego-
based or pain-body-based.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because all negativity is ego-based?
negativity loves ego; it's a denial of life. The moment you identify with negativity, that's part of the
ego. So experiment because you've lived in one particular state of conscious for many years. Try
something different, and see what happens. And what happens primarily and first of all is an inner
shift. And after a little time gap sometimes, it gets reflected in the outer realm also. But that's no longer
the main thing because the main thing already is that you enter that state of peaceful, alive presence in
yourself. When you're aligned with what is, aligned with the now. And that's what matters. The rest is
the icing on the cake. When good things happen to you. It doesn't mean you now feel good because
something good has happened to you, something good has happened to you because you already found
the goodness within you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. So you can only manifest that which you already are.
yes. You already are that. Whatever people are looking for, whatever form they already are that. They
are looking for God, and I'm not saying that this form is God. I'm not saying that this person is God.
I'm saying the essence, if you go deep enough within, they look around where you and God merge.
And it's everybody's destiny and purpose to live from that place of connectedness.
Page 30 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Because of the I am, the I am is I am that which comes from God.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I am that which comes from God.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Laurie lives in New Brunswick, Canada, and she's Skyping us from her
family room in St. John. Hello, Laurie.
LAURIE: Hello, Oprah. Hello, Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome to our conversation here this evening.
LAURIE: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What do want to say to us?
LAURIE: I would like to comment on the dialogue on inner purpose that begins on page 262. There
are parts of that dialogue, the parts that were written in italics that could've been me speaking word for
word. In fact, those where the reasons that I think I was drawn to the book in the first place. I turn 38
this summer, and I've had two members of my immediate family die in their mid-30s. So their deaths
have left me very keenly aware of the immediacy of my own living and how important it is for me to
align my life, however long it shall be, with my inner purpose. And to make sure that the relationships
that I have with peoplemy husband and my children especiallyare genuine. And that I conduct my
life from that place of higher consciousness. So my question is, I'm so aware of how important and
precious every moment of this human experience is. I don't want to waste a moment of it on anger or
resentment or disappointment. Some days, I'm just more conscious than others. So I ask, Eckhart, do
you believe that two people can actually live in an intimate relationship with one another either as
partners or as parent and child without wanting from one another? And do two people have to be at the
same place in their spiritual awakening for this to happen?
you, thank you. Good question. Now, when I say without wanting, what I mean of course is without
saying, "I want you. You are my property. You must not leave me, otherwise I will get extremely
angry." That's kind ofit doesn'tI'm not saying that you might not say to your partner, "I want you
to take out the garbage because I took it out yesterday." On a practical level, there may be some
wanting. So the question is, can two people live together without that deep psychological wanting that
Page 31 of 37
wants to cling to the other person, says, "fulfill me or make me happy, don't you dare leave me," right?
That is the question. What I would like to change the question a little bit from "can two people"
because you cannot be responsible for somebody else. Ask yourself the question, "Can I live with my
partner or whoever without bringing in this unconscious energy of wanting, which comes from the
ego? Can I live with a person like that?" Because it only requires really one person to go through this
shift in consciousness. So only you can really answer the question, and it's not an abstract question. It's
a question that you can only apply to the present moment to really answer it as an alive question rather
than an abstract thing, whether "Can people live in fully conscious together?" is an abstract question. A
more powerful and a more vital question is, "Can I? And even that notch, all my, for the rest of my
life?" Not like that, no. No. So you bringto, to find the answer, a vital answer that is true for you,
you have to remember that question as you live it, situations arise in your relationship. See, at this
moment, "Can I be free of that egoic wanting and needing?" And if you cannot be free at this moment
of this egoic wanting and needing, and because you cannot be free, negativity arises because the
partner is not responding to the wanting and needing or isn't even there, hasn't come home yet. Then
this is your chance again to be aware, as I mentioned to the other question a little earlier on, this is your
chance to become aware of the ego in you as the wanting. So even if the answer, "Can I be free of
wanting?" is, "No, obviously I can't because there's still wanting in me." Then at least you are able to
recognize the ego, and that means how are you able to recognize the ego? You're becoming aware.
And only when you dwell in awareness, in your relationship, can you be free of those unconscious
movements.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I think the wanting that you're talking about is wanting you to be
a certain way to help fill me up.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what he's talking about. Not in terms of practical, "I need you to
pick up the laundry, I want you to pick up the milk, I want you to" That's very different than, "I want
you to be what I want you to be so that you make me whole." Even though that whole, you know, Tom
Cruise, as a matter of fact, Jerry McGuire line, "You complete me." Wanting somebody to complete
you is what he's talking about because nobody can.
LAURIE: Yes, I think I misinterpreted that as being, wanting, you know, wanting recognition from
your spouse or wanting gratitude or wanting respect or things like that. And I couldn't quite figure out
how you live in an intimate relationship without wanting those things, and for me in ourwe have a
busy household. We have five little boys all under the age of 9.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good God!
LAURIE: There's always somebody wanting something around here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where are you? At a closed off room somewhere with the door locked?
Page 32 of 37
LAURIE: I am, and it's also 10, so they're all in bed.
LAURIE: But for me, I think, and you've talked a lot about people having their own spiritual practice,
and I guess for me right now, it's living amidst the chaos of the day and not getting mired down in the
muck of the daily routine, and being able to stay above that. Being unflappable and keeping that
sensing of inner peace even though it's a little bit chaotic in the immediate surroundings.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, with five boys under 9, oh, my god, it's a noisy house.
a good practice here is not wanting to be this moment to be different from the way it is. Just this
moment. That's where you relinquish the wanting, that's just a main relinquishment or letting go of
wanting. Not wanting this momentand it's always this momentto be different. So if the children
are screaming and just mayhem, that's what is and then you deal with what is. But not the internal
rejection of what is. So not wanting, really deep down is not wanting this moment, a moment may
come in the form of a person, your partner, the children. At this moment, this is what is and not
wanting this moment to be different from the way it is. Then you are aligned. Then you act. You take
action. You can tell them, "Stop doing that," but internally you are free, you're not reacting internally.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What about what Laurie was saying about wanting recognition? Not just
from your spouse, a lot of people you do things and you want people to recognize what you've done,
you know, to be, you know, I don't know, admired or you know, receive affection in your relationship,
is that your ego?

often is. But if you believe that the world is withholding from you, I say that somewhere in the book.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, you say it in the book.

Give what you think people owe you, give it, and then you see a reciprocal movement, not even
necessarily from the very same people you're giving it to. But the universe reciprocates if you give
recognition, gratitude, whatever it is. You give it out even to strangers. Recognition, a smile, giving, so
there's a flow of energy flows out.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause what you give out, what you put out is going to come back
always, always, always. That's a universal law. Thank you, Laurie. Thank you for your moment of
calm with the five boys.
Page 33 of 37
LAURIE: Thank you. I'm going to miss this on Monday night.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, well, thank you very much.
LAURIE: This is my
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is this your time for yourself?
LAURIE: This is. Yeah, it's great. We worked hard to carve out those moments of stillness around
here.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, we're going to continue with something we call the Soul Series on
Monday night. There's a great, great interview that I've done with, uh, Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor. Her mind
actually, as we mentioned last week. She lost the left hemisphere of her brain through stroke. And the
right hemisphere was still working, so all of the chatter stopped and she was in bliss.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And she said, "Even though I was drooling, I was drooling, I was in"
she, she was in heaven, she was in bliss. Yeah.
haven't used the terms right and left hemisphere in the book. I rarely use scientific terms, but that's how
she sees it. I think she's right.
right hemisphere has to do with unitive knowing, but not conceptual.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. She said she felt the connection to all things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. So here we are week nine and only one more class to go, and I bet
so many people relate to this. "Many people," you say on page 262, "who were going through the early
stages of awakening, are no longer certain what their outer purpose is." A woman from Milwaukee,
Oregon, just wrote "Can you still be 52 years old and be in the same place Ivy was at the beginning of
this show, not knowing what you want to do?" What drives the world, you say, no longer drives them.
Seeing the madness of our civilization so clearly they may feel somewhat alienated from the culture
around them. What do you do in this case if you're at this point in your life where reading this book has
shaken you up and you realize more than ever what you don't want to do. You realize, "I have been on
Page 34 of 37
the wrong course." You realize you have been awakening. Now what do you do? "I'm all awakened,
now what?"
the awakening, of course, is the realization of your inner purpose primarily. So don't come into conflict
with where you are now and what you're doing now. If you cannot surrender to what you're doing now
and be okay with it, at least bring acceptance. We talk about this in the next chapter. At least bring
acceptance to whatever you're doing now so that you're okay with it. That is vital. Then you are in a
state of clarity. You enter a state of clarity when you are no longer in opposition to your present
moment, life where you live or what you're doing. If you cannot surrender, whatever you're doing
continuous to produce unhappiness in you, and no matter how hard you try, then of course it's a clear
sign that you need to leave that situation.

either you let go of the resistance and see if you can, and sometimes people say, "No, I can't," but all
they really mean is they're not willing to.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not willing to, which is very different.

you need to see the difference between not being able to and not being willing to, whatever applies to
you. "Am I not willing to accept this this moment? Am I truly incapable of accepting this moment?" If
you found you're truly incapable of accepting this moment when you're doing your job or whatever
you're doing, then this is a sign that it's time for change.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Many
times, you will be able to have this energy flow into what you're doing already and transform how you
do, perhaps, what you've been doing for many years and is perhaps in a state of resistance, and
suddenly how you do it changesyou're no longer doing it in a state of inner resistance. And then you
bring a completely different energy into what you do. Consciousness rolls into what you do. And often,
either this is deeply fulfilling and it affects many people around you, or it could also happen that now
that you're no longer resisting what you do, change suddenly comes into your life.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. This is a beautiful quote from page 266, you say that, "The
great arises out of small things that are honored and cared for. Everybody's life really consists of small
things. Greatness is a mental abstraction and a favorite fantasy of the ego. The paradox is that the
foundation for greatness is honoring the small things of the present moment instead of pursuing the
idea of greatness."
Page 35 of 37
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's that one step.
right. So many people have this idea, "I want to achieve something great or be somebody great." And
they neglect the step that leads to greatness. They don't honor this step at this moment because they
have this idea of some future moment where they're going to be great.
then it's surprising when you truly look at people perhaps who you would say have achieved great
things, that even in their life, it's really is a sequence of small steps because every moment is quite
small. You are wherever you are at this moment. Some people believe, not to mention you, some
people believe I'm doing great work. I mean, I am because the consciousness is moving through this
form. I don't feel personally responsible for what I do as such. But even there, it is small steps, when
the writing happens, there's a notepad and a pen. And as the present moment and there's a stillness,
very small. There's not some idea, "I'm going to create a work that's going to change everybody's
consciousness." No, I'm just true to this moment. "What is this moment requires?" It's a blank sheet of
paper and a pen and a stillness. It's a small thing. When I give a talk, talk maybe 2,000 people come. If
I had this idea, "I'm now going to give an important big talk," that will lead to stress and fear because
maybe it not going to be that great. So but if you can, with every step being present, the car comes to
pick me up. If you stay into the car, sit in the car, the car moves toward the venue where the talk is
going to be. I look out of the window, simple people walking past the tree and sky this moment. Step
out, waiting in the green room to wait for the talk to start breathing. Simple. Nothing big, just a little
moment, this moment being true to that. Then you step on to the stage, there's the empty chair, and I sit
in it, still, breathe, and what else, 2,000 people there and also no word, no idea what isgoing to come
out of his mouth. Be happy with not knowing. Still, not big. It's all small. It's all a sequence of very
small moments, and by being true to the small moments, something great arises.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the biggest lesson from tonight is by being true to the small
moments, by being true to this moment, it means to bring the sense of presence, sense of consciousness
to every single moment so that everything that you do is fueled from a deeper level than your ego.
Everything you do is fueled from a deeper level than your thoughts. Everything you do is fueled from
your being, and that is what gives meaning and purpose to whatever you do. That's the essence.
Page 36 of 37
wonderful to see you when your power comes through your talk, it's beautiful. The words are so true.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thank you everybody. I want to thank you for joining us
tonight. As I said, next week will be our last class on A New Earth, the finale. But we don't want the
discussion to end there. Pleases join me on Monday, May 12, for the start of my Soul Series just to
continue this conversation for those of you who have been enjoying these webcasts here on
Oprah.com. For the first time, we will be broadcasting the videotaped sessions of my XM Radio show.
It's where I get to talk to spiritual teachers; I've been doing that for a couple years now. I talk to
spiritual teachers, thinkers and scholars about my favorite subject: the evolution of the soul. People
like Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, Wayne Dyer, Elizabeth Lesser, Jon Kabat-Zinn, Byron Katie, Sarah Ban
Breathnach, Kathy Freston and others. So keep Monday nights at 8 p.m. reserved for Oprah.com if you
can get away from the five noisy boys or whatever's going on in your life. Tonight's class will be
available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any
of our classes you can do that tomorrow also at Oprah.com and iTunes. It's free because of the
generous support of Nature Made Softgel vitamins. This week you can update your workbook and get
ready for our last class, Chapter 10, A New Earth, how to bring awareness to every moment of your
life. There really is no higher calling. We're going to go for two hours next week for the benefit of
wrapping up all the things we've been talking about in these past 10 weeks. This was great. Thank you.
This is a good class. Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We'll see you at number 10, coming up, number 10. Bye, everybody.
Thanks for your message boards.
Page 37 of 37

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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tonight, we're coming to you with a special two-hour finale of our New

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Would you like to lead us, sir?

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody else.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're not separate.

Copyright 2008 HARPO PRODUCTIONS INC

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What it's like to grow older.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

Copyright 2008 HARPO PRODUCTIONS INC

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You mean the form.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Consciously.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

Copyright 2008 HARPO PRODUCTIONS INC

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.

Copyright 2008 HARPO PRODUCTIONS INC

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the first (inaudible).

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

Copyright 2008 HARPO PRODUCTIONS INC

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because we don't honor.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And role-playing.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Intelligent stupidity.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tell us what you mean by that.

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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And being.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or a second time.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):

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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right.

Copyright 2008 HARPO PRODUCTIONS INC

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's in every aspect.

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.

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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is correct.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.

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KIMBERLY ELISE: Hi.

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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good questions. Good.

KIMBERLY ELISE: Okay.

ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So

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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of

KIMBERLY ELISE: Ah.

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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Yeah.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.