PM Lee Kuan Yew 1967 Meeting With Local and Foreign Press at Television Singapura

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PRIME MINISTER MEETS LOCAL AND FOREIGN PRESS AT
TELEVISION SINGAPURA, SUNDAY, 5TH NOVEMBER, 1967
JOURNALISTS PRESENT:
Chia Poteik STRAITS TIMES
John Kam EASTERN SUN
Ngeow Pak Hua NANYANG SIANG PAU
Wu Shik SIN CHEW JIT POH
Lim Teng Woh CHINA PRESS
Lim Hee Seng MIN PAO
Teh Chuan San SHIN MIN RYH BAW
Bakar bin Ismail UTUSAN MELAYU
Suleiman Jeem BERITA HARIAN
T. Selvaganapathy TAMIL MALAR
John Iruthagam TAMIL MURASU
V. P. Abdullah MALAYSIA MALAYALI
Ian McCrone REUTERS
lky/1967/lky1105b.doc
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Ong Beng Guan UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Myron Belkind ASSOCIATED PRESS
M.K. Menon AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE
Sergei Svirin TASS
Ying Yi Chuan CENTRAL NEWS AGENCY
A.L. Ferguson AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING COMMISSION
F.A. Emery THE TIMES, London
John Bennetts AGE, Melbourne
Selvaganapathy: Mr. Prime Minister, you have been reported as saying -- I am
sure that you have been reported correctly -- that "Americans
are powerful. The world is painfully aware of that fact that
Americans are brave -- or perhaps a better word --
courageous morally, no one doubts, but that the world in its
interests believes that this power and the courage should be
controlled. For in a world of bears and dragons, that is the
best way to ensure that peace in future will not be unduly
threatened." Was it just an observation or a warning, Mr.
Prime Minister?
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Prime Minister: I am sorry that, in spite of having a written text in front of
you, you misquoted me by the misplacing of a punctuation
mark. I remember distinctly what I said in Washington on
arrival. I had a script and what I said is: "That Americans
are powerful, the world is too painfully aware. In a world full
of bears and dragons that power must be exercised with
restraint, prudence and so on, and resolution." Whatever I
said in America is on the tape because I had a TV Singapura
man with me carrying a tape, and I stand by every word of it.
What has not been reported -- although I said it at the dinner
with President Johnson -- is that human beings, when they
become organised into nation-states, have a very natural
inclination to choose carnivorous birds or animals as their
symbols. We have done so ourselves. We have a lion and a
tiger. And the world is not just full of bears and dragons.
Nearer home, we have got a garuda and two tigers. It is
much better, whatever the national emblem, in the mind and
in the heart they should be full of doves, peaceful doves. And
I have a very grave apprehension that if there were a
miscalculation, there will come a point where the Chinese
who are physically there, neighbours to North Vietnam, and
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the Russians who have not decided to give up the leadership
of the Communist world, will have to react.
At the moment the Russians have only given surface-to-air
missiles. That means defensive. A B-52 passes by, you shoot
the B-52, worth $5 million? It falls down. But if the
escalation goes on, and if the Russians were to give surface-
to-surface missiles, that means the Seventh Fleet is in danger,
which means step by step we go towards the ultimate. And
the ultimate in this case may be limited nuclear war because I
don't believe the Russians are going to die for North or South
Vietnamese. It is not worth their while. But they will supply
North Vietnamese with more and more sophisticated
weapons in order that more Americans and South Vietnamese
will die and South Koreans, and Australians and New
Zealanders, and the Filipinos and the Thais. But the
Chinese are right there on the border and, if they believe their
national interest, their survival as a people are threatened ...
Well, there are two KMT divisions still in Burma. They are
self-supporting divisions.
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I have no doubt that as of now, the American "over-kill" as
they call it... They have so many nuclear weapons and war-
heads, they can just plaster out all the Chinese cities. But I
don't think you can kill the Chinese countryside and 700
million people. And they have, regular army plus the militia,
somewhere around 7 million, perhaps 9 million. All of them
are self-supporting units. They don't require the American-
style PX stores, logistic support. If they fan out -- I find this
very credible -- if you hit them, then they will, as they have
said, ignore all national boundaries and it is into South
Vietnam, into Laos and Cambodia -- and Cambodia is their
friend still -- into Thailand, into Burma, into Malaysia and by
foot into Singapore. Then, can the Americans really commit
genocide against the whole of Asia? I find this a horrendous
thought but I find the other one equally terrifying: the
Americans turning their backs on Asia, saying, "Well, look,
this is not worth it."
As some people in high authority in America, who are against
the Vietnam war, have said, "These are not our kind of
people." Meaning they are chaps who are near savage just
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come down from the trees... So why bother about them?
Perhaps, if I were a white American, I would believe that.
Looking at the Vietnamese, they say, "Well, what is the
point?"
But, first of all, I do not believe that the South
Vietnamese or North Vietnamese has just come down from
the trees. They have 2,000 years of history, culture and
civilisation, during 900 to 1,000 of which they resisted the
Chinese and eventually emerged as a separate nation-state.
Secondly, however degraded they are now, selling or having
to sell their souls and worse, their wives and daughters for
American green backs, there is deep inside a great deal of
pride. And a people with a long history have that pride and
have that determination to reassert themselves.
I never asked the Americans to go into Vietnam in
1954. In fact, in 1954, I was on board a ship between here
Hong Kong when Dien Bienh Phu happened. And I cheered
for the North Vietnamese because I thought it was right that
the French should be taught a lesson. In 1955, Mr. Foster
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Dulles signed a treaty with Ngo Din Diem. In 1956, there
were no elections because Ngo Din Diem said no free
elections could be held. Well, they decided to do this and
they have brought about a situation in which if there is a
sudden turning of their backs on Asia, ..... You are a
Singaporean, Mr. Selvaganapathy and so am I ... We will
both have had it within 5, 7, perhaps 9 years. In Asia, people
bend with the wind and when they know gale-force winds are
coming, they bend even before the wind comes, like the
bamboo!. And you know what happens.
You know what happened in Malaya and Singapore
when they thought the Malayan Communist Party was going
to win. Everybody ducked. They pulled the blankets over
their heads and peeped out of the window and then dashed
back and pulled the blankets over their heads. If South
Vietnam is given away in some kind of spurious, bogus peace
treaty which means, in effect, temporary neutralisation and
after 2, 3, 4 years the liberation army takes over, I have no
doubt in my mind that Laos, Cambodia, Thailand will very
quickly do likewise, perhaps even Burma. They have no
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chance then. The Americans should have fought west of the
Mekong, not in Vietnam because in Vietnam, they are
fighting a very tough people.
This is the strange thing I find about American policy.
In the Middle East, it is said ... I am not sure whether they
do or they don't ... they supported with arms and moral
sustenance, the Israelis against the Arab Muslims. And for
this time, the Israelis have shown that they can use all this
gadgetry and win. But in Southeast Asia, they are doing just
the opposite. They are supporting the more ... I am not
saying it is good or bad, but it is a fact ... that the Southeast
Asian is more easy-going. He likes a graceful and a leisurely
life. So they have decided to support -- this is a very broad
comparison -- the Muslim against the Israeli. I do not believe
that it is Mr. Svirin's instructors who are firing these rocket
surface-to-air missiles that bring down the B-52. It is the
Vietnamese who are doing it. All you have to do is to show
them once, then they will spend a lot of time perfecting it.
And perhaps the second time that they fire, the Russian
instructor in Moscow or wherever it is in the Turkish republic
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or in Siberia, will give a bit of advice on how to be more
accurate. The third time he fires by himself, and a B-52
comes down worth $5 million US. If you go back there in 2
years time, you will find that the South Vietnamese have
improved on the techniques which their Russian mentors have
given them. That is life.
The Americans chose this bed of roses and I am not
asking them to lie on it. All I am saying is: if you, the
Americans, decide to cut your losses and get off on the cheap,
then I must put in contingency plans. Because, as I have said
I am committed. I am committed not to Vietnam but a non-
Communist, democratic-socialist Singapore. But if Vietnam
is lost, I am quite sure liberation armies will start moving
westward and southwards. Why should my children be
committed, why should your children? Why should the
Singapore people be committed?
Selvaganapathy: Are you sure this will not happen?
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Prime Minister: If it happens, so be it. I am hoping it doesn't. But if it does,
so be it. I am not asking the Americans to die for me.
Menon: But, Mr. Prime Minister, you said you are afraid of
escalation. At the same time, you are against the Americans
backing out. Does that mean that the status quo should be
maintained?
Prime Minister: We are going into the technicalities of the war. I don't think
the status quo is bearable, militarily or psychologically, for
the American people and the President. Because from the
people, the pressure is on the Congressmen and the Senators
on to the President; and from the newspapers on to the public,
back to the people, back to the Senators, back to the
Congressmen, on to the President, the Secretary of State, the
Secretary of Defence. I am not an expert in these matters but
I think it is far better to concentrate on the political side -- on
what the Americans called "pacification", but what I would
call consolidation of a national identity, pride in being
themselves, in being South Vietnamese. And that can only be
done by South Vietnamese themselves.
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You know what happened when the British governors
were in charge. They said, "Communism, great terror. You
will all become robots." Nobody believed a word of it. I
didn't. I joined the Communists, as you know, to push them
out. But I had no doubts in the years that I and my colleagues
were with the Communists that when the British were out, the
Communists would want to be in. They were not going to
allow me to be in. And, therefore, we made contingency
plans. And the British were skillful enough to step out of the
arena and give us the buttons that controlled the state.
We won not because of guns. We couldn't win
because of guns; we won because of policies -- social
programmes, housing, education and health, jobs, a sense of
identification of a people with the achievements of the whole
community. And Singapore is, with justification, proud of the
modest progress we have made.
I am not saying that we are equal to New York or even
for that matter Chicago or Los Angeles. But compared to
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what Singapore was in 1954 or 1959 when we took office
you will agree that it is a healthier place not just for you but
for the ordinary people. It is a better place to live in because
there are more homes, all the children are in school, unlike
before. there are more clinics; there is more medical care
and attention; more scholarships for the bright, and
scholarships for all Malays. I know that UTUSAN and the
BERITA HARIAN who are represented here have sort of
belittled this. But let us be quite frank.
Every Malay that goes to school or to University or to
the Polytechnics gets it all paid, which is more than we give
either to a person of Chinese or of Indian descent. And I
think that made the difference. That is why Singapore feels
that it can do it.
President Johnson embarrassed me by his praise
because it was in such a Texan terms -- extravagant, big. But
he was praising not me. He was praising Singapore. I can't
do it without Singapore and the people, the team. It is like an
orchestra and a conductor. I may be or I may not be a good
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conductor but if I don't have a good orchestra, with first
violin, second violin, the oboe, the double bass, the clarinet --
the whole range of instruments -- there would not have been
the beautiful melodies that have reached not just Washington
but Scarborough and London. Scarborough is 400 miles from
London. But people have come here, they have seen. We
have improved on what the British gave us. This is the only
way out for South Vietnam. And it cannot be done by
Americans. It must be done by South Vietnamese.
Selvaganapathy: Mr. Prime Minsiter, when you said that the...
Prime Minister: No... I don't want to stop you but how about giving the
others... I am particularly interested in our UTUSAN and
BERITA HARIAN friends because they blacked me out so
completely in all their reportings. It is just little captions here
and there that give the Malay people in Singapore a very
distorted view of the world. But, mind you, being a free
press, well, it is your newspaper, you do as you like.
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Ong Beng Chuan: Sir, do you feel that America's fear that Singapore might turn
into a third China, might result in their miscalculation and
push you to the wall.
Prime Minister: I think that is a very real possibility, this belief not just in
the State Department among their Southeast Asian experts
but among the people at large. Americans at large believe
that Singapore is in China. They see pictures with shops with
Chinese signs; they see me and they say, "Ah Chinaman." If
they believe that we are going to be extensions of Chinese
power -- by Chinese I mean the People's Republic of China --
they they are going to take certain preventive steps, not
themselves of course, because that will be too obvious but
they can... There are any number of people around in the
region who would do the job for them but who cannot do the
job for them but who cannot do the job unless they supply the
aircraft and the ships. As Lord Louis Mountbatten explained
to me about the landing after the Japanese surrender, it was
so complicated that even after the surrender the whole
operations had to go on. To cross water, you need ships and
aircraft. None of our neighbours can manufacture these ships
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and aircraft. They were supplied primarily by the Russians --
for a different purpose, mind you. In the end, it was used to
ends which must have grieved the Russians who supplied the
weapons because the conservative estimate is 300,000
Communists die, perhaps more, and perhaps a lot of people
who happened just to be sitting by or walking next to a
Communist.
I want to know and I haven't got a clear answer from
the Americans. They Russians are not giving spare parts now
in the same quantities. I want to know from the Americans
whether they believe that Singapore has the right to survive as
a nation, as a people. Or whether they also are going to start
supplying aircraft, missiles and ships. If they are then in 10
years, a very dangerous situation can take place. It is like in
the old days, in feudal days. When the princes fought, they
never went into the arena. They sent their knights. So you
adopt or you are adopted. All right, if America adopts so and
so, we will be adopted by so and so. Whatever happens, we
will never be cowed. I would rather be dead, fighting,
arguing, than be emasculated, turned into a political and
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economic eunuch. I think the Americans ought to know this.
And I told the Americans this.
Belkind: What did they say in reply?
Prime Minister: They said, "No, no,. That I have too vivid an imagination.
Why should I worry... The regime in Indonesia is peace-
loving and so on." I said, "Look, the present regime is peace-
loving but did the Russians foresee giving 2 billion roubles
worth of arms to Soekarno and the Army which was then
going the way of the PKI, the Communist Party of Indonesia?
Did they foresee that it was going to be used against the PKI?
Can you guarantee me that we will always have in Indonesia
a pragmatic, realistic, hard-headed, co-operative, peace-
loving regime? supposing the PKI came back, and you have
supplied them with landing craft... You know, the C-113
Hercules that flew over Labis in September 1964 and 70
paratroopers came down from the sky -- can you guarantee
me that the moment the regime changes, you can take back all
these instruments of destructions?"
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Belkind: Would you rather have Indonesia not re-armed, or re-armed
by America or somebody else?
Prime Minister: I would have thought that my statement is self-evident. I
would rather that we all declare our everlasting friendship on
the basis of peace, amity and quality. And the surest
guarantee or credibility of that is, don't have offensive
weapons.
Ground-to-air missiles are alright because I haven't got
aircraft, I am not going to fly into other people's air-space.
But surface-to-surface missiles are a different thing. The
Americans whom I met, particularly those in authority say,
"No, no, we don't want an arms race in Southeast Asia." I
say, "Well, very good, let's not have an arms race because if
you do, you cannot expect us to do nothing." And they say,
"Look, let us co-operate." I say, "Yes, by all means." But, to
what purpose? Today, 1967, the best way and the quickest
way to refurbish their infra-structure -- roads, railway,
shipping, repairs to ships, aircraft, the consumer products,
tyres and so on -- is from Singapore.
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Having refurbished them, let us say in 15 years,
perhaps slightly more, perhaps slightly less, they become
bulging with muscles and they decide that they ought to own
Singapore... What is the percentage? Why should I as a
representative of Singapore -- never mind whether it is the
PAP or any other government -- any government in
Singapore, representing the interest of the people of
Singapore -- that doesn't get a clear-cut guarantee that
boundaries will not be changed by force must be on the
cautious side and must take every precaution.
And for the sake of BERITA HARIAN and UTUSAN
MELAYU, may I say that we consider the Malaysians as
friends. We were in Malaysia without any guns. The police,
the army were all under Malaysian control; and they found us
an indigestible morsel, and they asked us to get out. So now
with guns. I don't expect the Malaysians to want to take back
an even more indigestible morsel! And, in any case, they are
not arming themselves with offensive weapons. They have
only got jet trainers. But the Russians supplied some MiG-
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19s and some MiG-21s to Soekarno. If you start supplying
spares again, it will be a very troublesome part of the world.
How can I be sure?...... How can America be sure that
the PKI cannot make a come-back, and Mr. Brezhnev and
Mr. Kosygin will not supply or resupply all the spares to
make the MiGs and the cruisers and submarines effective
again? Nobody knows. Therefore, when people say to me:
"Why do you do these things?" I say, "Because we live in a
very dangerous part of the world, a balkanised Southeast
Asia." I want to make it clear, and I am saying this publicly -
- I have said this so many times to my own people -- better
die than be castrated, than be an economic serf. And I think
that reflects the views of Singapore.
Selvaganapathy: Sir ...
Prime Minister: How about giving UTUSAN ... What worries me is the fact
that UTUSAN and BERITA are so silent. And tomorrow, I
will see none of this.
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Suleiman Jeem: I want to know regarding the announcement of the President
last week, the formation of a Malay Secretariat: what do you
think? Can this thing solve the problem of the Malays in
Singapore?
Prime Minister: Sorry, I ...
Bakar: Announcement of formation of a Malay Secretariat
in Singapore. It was announced by the President last
week.....
Prime Minister: By our President, Singapore's President?
Bakar: Yes, our President?
Prime Minister: Can I put it in another way? There is no government in South
and Southeast Asia that more jealously protects the interests
of its minority groups. I am not giving licences and
directorships to companies because then you only help one or
two Malays. You heard the argument when we were in
Malaysia -- why we didn't believe that that would solve it.
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And let me say that the educational programme, the social
reforms, the housing will not solve it in one, two or three
years. It is going to take 10 to 15 years to make the Malay as
hardworking and as competitive. I have no doubt that if the
Malays in Singapore get accustomed to walking at the same
pace as the others, they will make the grade. I have no doubt
about that. You look at the footballers. There is nothing
wrong with them. Our best footballer has now been taken
over by K.L. What is his name -- Karim? Our best centre-
forward. He is now bought over and joined the Malaysian
forces. I say good luck to him.
But let me give you this example which I found in
Hawaii. Mind you, what I have said applies only to Hawaii
because in mainland America it is slightly different. The
blacks are 10% and the whites are 90%. And there is the
awful problem of the past, the scars of the master-slave
relationship. In Hawaii, it is completely different. There are
Chinese there, Japanese, white Americans, French, British. I
even met a person of Russian descent, they left probably with
the Bolshevik Revolution, Mr. Svirin. And there are the
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Polynesians. And because they work together and live
together and there is easy relationship, the Polynesian today...
The Polynesian people are, broadly speaking, the same type
as the Malays. And they are equal, not all of them yet
because there are some islands where they refuse to change
the adat. But in the Big towns, in Honolulu, they have
changed and they are catching up and are equal. We will be
deceiving ourselves if we think we can do this in two or three
years or in one election period. But you show me where we
have, as a government, either been not forthcoming to help
the Malay to help himself or have put impediments in his
way. But crucial to all this is: to help our Singapore Malays
to help themselves. If you don't want to go into the modern
world and learn science, technology, mathematics,
trigonometry, algebra, chemistry, physics and you only want
to read the Koran and Malay studies, then I can't do anything
about it.
Bakar: Sir, regarding the Malay side, is there anything that can be
done, is there anything that has been done, for this particular
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subject so as to make the Malays in the same pace with the
others in Singapore?
Prime Minister: First of all, you are a Malaysian, aren't you? You are a
citizen of Malaysia. Since you ask me this question... I don't
want to any way to interfere with your policies or your
government's policies in Malaysia, either in Johore Bahru or
in Kuala Lumpur or in Penang. But let me ask you this: Has
your government given, as we have given, special subsidy for
housing? You know, if an Indian or a Chinese goes to a
Housing Board flat he pays the ordinary subsidised rent. But
for the Malays -- ours, of course, not you because you don't
qualify; you are a Malaysian citizen -- but our Malay
Singapore citizens get a 20% subsidy paid for by the Social
Welfare Department in order that he will have a better house
-- more healthy, with more windows, water, modern
sanitation, electric lights and therefore, his children will grow
up healthier, and better able to compete. Now you tell me
whether that is being done in Johore Bahru.
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Bakar: Sir, to get more about the answer to that question, I should
say that you should go for the Malaysian Government itself,
not for me.
Prime Minister: No, no, you asked me, and I am telling you that there is no
field ... Look, can every Malay in your country -- because
you are a Malaysian....
Bakar: No, I am asking about the Malays in Singapore.
Prime Minister: Exactly. And I am doing more for them than even you are
doing for yourself.
Bakar: Do you think that the formation of this Malay Secretariat will
sort of push up the standards of the Malays in Singapore?
Prime Minister: If we did not think so, you think we are going to waste our
time and energy?
Bakar: When are you going to form this Secretariat Sir?
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Prime Minister: The Secretariat is already in being. I have a group of senior
officers -- non-political. I see this as a long-term problem.
Any Malay that can get into the University of Singapore or
into the Polytechnic or a secondary school or even Nanyang
University gets all his fees and books paid and a bursary.
Can you say the same? Do you do the same for yourself?
What more do you expect us to do? And deliberately, you
are causing mischief every day by a very skilful play on
religion, race, language. I am watching this, and because we
have a free press I wait. One day, as I did in the case of the
libel action ... Your company, the UTUSAN MELAYU, paid
$80,000 for the cost of the libel action? That is just libel
against me as an individual. Let me be quite blunt to you.
You work this up and one day, your editor here and perhaps
you, for writing the story, may find yourselves under a charge
for sedition which includes arousing racial antagonism and
animosities which I say you, very subtly, are doing every day.
Bakar: In what way, Sir?
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Prime Minister: You want me to go through the MIRROR for opinion?
Why do you ban the MIRROR from your country? Why not
read the highlights? Why not read what 'Bajang' says every
week? Look, the publicity that you have given people who
represent nobody -- Ahmad Haji Taff, Syed Ali Redha -- who
do they represent? They lost the last election. Syed Isa
Almenoar: He signed the Minority Rights Constitutional
Commission and yet, because you twisted his arm by
communal pressures, he, the man who signed the Report and
said, "Yes, it is wrong to have written into the Constitution
special this, that and the others, special licenses, special jobs"
-- he backtracked and said, "Well, the Constitutional
Commission is the Constitutional Commission. Now in my
position as Chairman of UMNO or now PKMS, I demand
...." -- he always demands, he never makes a request; he
demands -- "that the Singapore Parliament should write this
into its Constitution." Do you believe that that is helpful?
This is utter rot, isn't it, rubbish, and your publication incites
this feeling. You are blocking everything that I am saying,
and the ministers ar saying, and the President, who is a
Malay, is saying and Inche Othman Wok and Haji Ya'acob
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.... He is a Haji -- I would say more religious than Syed Isa
Almenoar. Inche Ya'acob went on haj, he doesn't drink, he
doesn't gamble. And you block him out and you distort him.
I am prepared for the open confrontation all the time. In the
end, in Singapore, we will win because, however poisonous
your propaganda, the schools are there, the opportunities are
there and the Malay people can think. Would you like to
come back on another question? Or do you think the Malay
people can't think and therefore, you would like to leave it as
it is?
And whilst we are on the subject: BERITA, I have been
reading BERITA for my five weeks away. The two-inch, half
inch, five lines ... I am not sayng that I am an important
person. But what I say is important to Singapore, don't you
think, and to Malay readers in Singapore. 7.7% of our
population are Malays. And this reduction to two or three
lines: is it an accident? What I said: is it so bad that it cannot
bear being told to the Malays? What I said about Hawaii
when I left: there is not a single word in BERITA. UTUSAN
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I give up, but BERITA: you are supposed to be a modern
rumi-type paper, forward-looking. In spite of what you are
doing, we will do what is right for the Malays, we will bring
them forward as a modern component of a modern Singapore.
It will take ten years, maybe. It may take 15 years. But in
the end, you will look at them and you will say, "They are a
great people, the Malays included."
Selvaganapathy: Mr. Prime Minister, can you say something about what you
see in Malta and ship-building yards in England?
Prime Minister: Well, yes. I have to be very careful here. Malta is in a very
difficult position at the moment because the Suez Canal is
closed and so the ships are not passing through. The
Mediterranean has become a big lake now, and therefore
there is less business. But because the dockyard comprises
10% of the economy, the govenment is paying all the workers
the full salary, even when they are doing nothing.
Sometimes, they close the docks, fill them up with water and
play waterpolo. We are a bit more fortunate. Nobody can
close the Straits of Malacca; it is a bit wide! And unless the
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Americans, the Russians and the others are stupid enough --
which I don't think they are -- to make it belong to the same
owner who then closes it up and we pay toll, there will
always be the ships going around from Japan to the Gulf and
back. The big tankers, the 200,000 tonners -- they take four
days to degasify before you can work on it safely. That is
just about the time from Japan in the north to Singapore. I
have every confidence that we can do it. It will give an extra
reason: the Maltese have very fierce competitors in the
French at Marseilles who are a pretty tough lot, and they
work hard; in the Genoese in Genoa, in Naples and even the
Greeks in Athens. They work very, very hard. We work
hard in Singapore, and we always try to work harder than
everybody else and, as long as we do that, Singapore will
thrive and prosper regardless of what happens.
Abdullah: Prime Minster, in connection with the special (commitments)
to the Malay community....
Prime Minister: No ... You are a Malayalee? You run a Malayalam paper.
You are not expecting me to give you the 20% subsidy we are
30
giving the Malays? You are not asking for that. Come on.
Of all the States in India, the Malayalees are the most
educated, with the highest literacy rate and the largest number
of unversity graduates. So you can't expect me to give you
what we are giving the Malays. Let us be fair. No, no, let us
leave that, and leave our UTUSAN and the BERITA
HARIAN friends to throw in their poisonous darts. Why do
you want to throw in one for them? Let us have another
question.
Chia Poteik: I see that we have only time for one last question.
Prime Minister: Please .....
Chia Poteik: May I bring you back to your visit to America where you
created a good impression?
Prime Minister: How do you know?
Chia Poteik: Well, you said that Mr. Johnson praised you quite highly.
31
Prime Minister: That is what he said. What a man says and what a man
thinks... Well, we have to wait and see. He having said, we
have to watch what he does. He praised me, yes. I was
almost embarrassed.
Chia Poteik: But from reports we received here, we gather that the
impression you created during your visit was very favourable
to Singapore.
Prime Minister: I am paid to do that, isn't it? You don't expect me to go to
America or to Zurich or to Scarborough to create a bad
impression for Singapore? You think my job is to do that? If
I did that, then I should get the sack.
Chia Poteik: Well, be that as it may. But your visit produced a favourable
impression of Singapore ...
Prime Minister: Thank you -- if you think so, it must be so.
32
Chia Poteik: And, if I may ask, will you say that that will lead to greater
American interests in Singapore, politically and economically
in the future?
Prime Minister: I would rather concentrate on the economic side. As far as
the politics are concerned, that means the bases and the
military alliances and so on, we are so accustomed to the
British and they are such old friends. I lived for 4 1/2 days
with all the ministers and the whole of the National Executive
of the Labour Party in the same small hotel in Scarborough
called the Grand Hotel. They have known me for 20 years.
And I know the Conservatives too, for an almost equally long
time and I make a point of keeping the contact. On the
political and military side, our lines with the British are so
valuable it is utter stupidity to change it. Perhaps in time to
come, the next generation in the 1980s may develop a special
relationship either with Russia or with the Americans.
But the economic side -- and this is again what the
STRAITS TIMES never reported, perhaps for good
reasons.... I met no fewer than 150 people in New York,
33
Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco, each one of whom
is worth between 250 to 500 million U.S. dollars, personally.
When you say you are a millionaire in Singapore, that means
you have only got 300,000 U.S. dollars. But when you say
that so and so is a rich man like Mr. John Rockefeller III, that
means he can't count his money. And even Mr. Nelson
Rockefeller, the governor of New York, whom I met -- he
told me, "The American public trust people with wealth
because that means there is no need for them to be corrupt."
So I told him. "Well, in that case, I am at a disadvantage if I
run for politics in America because I have got no money."
But these people not only met me, they met Mr. Hon Sui Sen,
Dr. Phay Seng Watt, Joe Pillay of the Economic Planning
Unit, Mr. Sim Kee Boon, Mr. Rahim Ishak. And without
undue immodesty, I will say that these people are as good as
any that the Americans have got.
We are at the MIT, Massachusetts Institute of Technology,
for about two hours in a discussion group. I was tired and I
wanted to save my voice for the afternoon when I had to talk
to Harvard students who are not very keen on the Vietnam
34
war because they may have to die there. And my colleagues
batted, and if the Americans knew what is quality, what is
knowledge, wisdom, judgment -- as I think they do and some
of them were very able men ... Mr. Weisner, for instance, the
head of the MIT Technology section : he is one of the world's
most eminent scientists. I would say that these men were not
bowled out by one spin ball. They held their own, and the
Americans can judge it. This is not a one-man show. The
press presents it as a one-man show because it is the simple
way. You just say Lee Kuan Yew or Dr. Sukarno. God
forbid that I ever try to emulate him. But these businessmen
with almost billions of dollars, in Singapore dollars, are hard-
headed or they wouldn't have these billions of dollars. They
can see a thinking, rational, effective outfit when they come
across one. I am not saying they are going to come in
tomorrow to invest. They are going to watch. They will
make the enquiries and probes and so on. But they will wait
till the Presidential elections in November 1968 because they
want to know whether their government will maintain an
interest in South and Southeast Asia, a continuing interest into
the 70's, 80's and beyond, or whether they will turn their
35
backs, in which case the Russians will be very worried
because they will then be alone in the Pacific on the western
seaboard.
With the Americans, their sea-coast is on the eastern side of
the Pacific basin. The Russians have a sea-board contiguous
with certain other hydrogen powers on the western rim of the
Pacific, and they may find it all lonely by themselves ... They
are also making aircraft carriers, I read somewhere. Let us
hope the elections come out the right way. It is not just who
is elected President, but how he is elected. If the American
people prove as a people -- or, at least, 51% of them prove --
that they have the stuffing that makes for a great nation, that
they are not just short-timers and impatient, wanting a quick
solution, and if they can't find one, packing it up -- if they
prove that they have wisdom, judgment not to go and blow
the world up, not to throw away what could be great friends
in South and Southeast Asia provided they back the right
forces, the modern, forward-looking forces, the people in
each community who want to bring their nations forward, not
backward, into the 21st century where man will go to the
36
moon, to Mars and beyond... And the Russians are going to
back them. That is why they back President Nasser.
President Nasser. as Mr. Svirin knows, locks up all his
Communists. But he is a modernising force. so he got the
assistance, the Aswan Dam, which will be there a hundred
years from now as a reminder to Egyptians of what the
Russians did. If the Americans have got that kind of wisdom
and build Aswan Dams for the Mekong, for instance, and not
just give helicopters and jet fighters which will cause trouble
all round, and build factories and perhaps open a little of their
market for us, then they will have friends on the western rim
of Asia. If they haven't got that kind of wisdom, then I think
they are in trouble.
Now they have an embargo against the People's Republic of
China. There are a whole series of articles which cannot be
sold to the People's Republic of China, a strategic embargo,
to make the Chinese progress slow. In the 21st century, if the
whole of South and Southeast Asia are on the side of China
and the Soviet Union because by that time they would have
got together again as two different churches, and they put an
37
embargo on the Americans there is a whole range of strategic
products which cannot be exported to America or to Western
Europe. Then the Americans are going to find life less
affluent and less comfortable. And it is for the people to
decide and for their leaders to pose this question honestly and
truthfully.

PM Lee Kuan Yew 1967 Meeting With Local and Foreign Press at Television Singapura

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PM Lee Kuan Yew 1967 Meeting With Local and Foreign Press at Television Singapura

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1

PRIME MINISTER MEETS LOCAL AND FOREIGN PRESS AT

TELEVISION SINGAPURA, SUNDAY, 5TH NOVEMBER, 1967

Chia Poteik STRAITS TIMES

John Kam EASTERN SUN

Ngeow Pak Hua NANYANG SIANG PAU

Wu Shik SIN CHEW JIT POH

Lim Teng Woh CHINA PRESS

Lim Hee Seng MIN PAO

Teh Chuan San SHIN MIN RYH BAW

Bakar bin Ismail UTUSAN MELAYU

Suleiman Jeem BERITA HARIAN

T. Selvaganapathy TAMIL MALAR

John Iruthagam TAMIL MURASU

V. P. Abdullah MALAYSIA MALAYALI

Ian McCrone REUTERS

Ong Beng Guan UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

Myron Belkind ASSOCIATED PRESS

M.K. Menon AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE

Sergei Svirin TASS

Ying Yi Chuan CENTRAL NEWS AGENCY

A.L. Ferguson AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING COMMISSION

F.A. Emery THE TIMES, London

John Bennetts AGE, Melbourne

Selvaganapathy: Mr. Prime Minister, you have been reported as saying -- I am

sure that you have been reported correctly -- that "Americans

are powerful. The world is painfully aware of that fact that

Americans are brave -- or perhaps a better word --

courageous morally, no one doubts, but that the world in its

interests believes that this power and the courage should be

controlled. For in a world of bears and dragons, that is the

best way to ensure that peace in future will not be unduly

threatened." Was it just an observation or a warning, Mr.

Prime Minister: I am sorry that, in spite of having a written text in front of

you, you misquoted me by the misplacing of a punctuation

mark. I remember distinctly what I said in Washington on

arrival. I had a script and what I said is: "That Americans

are powerful, the world is too painfully aware. In a world full

of bears and dragons that power must be exercised with

restraint, prudence and so on, and resolution." Whatever I

said in America is on the tape because I had a TV Singapura

man with me carrying a tape, and I stand by every word of it.

What has not been reported -- although I said it at the dinner

with President Johnson -- is that human beings, when they

become organised into nation-states, have a very natural

inclination to choose carnivorous birds or animals as their

symbols. We have done so ourselves. We have a lion and a

Nearer home, we have got a garuda and two tigers. It is

much better, whatever the national emblem, in the mind and

in the heart they should be full of doves, peaceful doves. And

I have a very grave apprehension that if there were a

miscalculation, there will come a point where the Chinese

who are physically there, neighbours to North Vietnam, and

the Russians who have not decided to give up the leadership

of the Communist world, will have to react.

At the moment the Russians have only given surface-to-air

missiles. That means defensive. A B-52 passes by, you shoot

the B-52, worth $5 million? It falls down. But if the

escalation goes on, and if the Russians were to give surface-

to-surface missiles, that means the Seventh Fleet is in danger,

which means step by step we go towards the ultimate. And

the ultimate in this case may be limited nuclear war because I

Vietnamese. It is not worth their while. But they will supply