Carter Transcript

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON

JAMES P. CHASSE, JR. ; JAMES P. )
CHASSE; LINDA GERBER; and MARK
CHASSE, individually and in his
1
)
capacity as Personal Representative )
ib
py
(>-y=J)
of the ESTATE OF JAMES P. CHASSE, )
JR., 1
Plaintiffs, )
V. )NO. CV-07-0189-HU
CHRISTOPHER HUMPHREYS; KYLE NICE; )
CITY OF PORTLAND; CITY OF PORTLAND )
JOHN DOE FIREFIGHTERS/PARAMEDICS; )
PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU and OTHER 1
PORTLAND JOHN and JANE DOE 1
OFFICIALS; BRET BURTON; MULTNOMAH )
COUNTY; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and )
JANE DOE DEPUTY SHERIFFS and MEDICAL)
PERSONNEL; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and)
JANE DOE SHERIFF'S OFFICE and OTHER )
OFFICIALS; TRI-COUNTY METROPOLITAN )
TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT OF OREGON; )
and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE )
NORTHWEST, INC., )
Defendants. 1
)
DEPOSITION OF
TONY LEE CARTER
Taken in behalf of Defendants
August 8, 2008
1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900
Portland. Oreson
Shannon K. Krska, CSR
court Reporter
4 0 0 Columbia, Suite i40
Vancouver, WA 98660
Schrmtt&Lehmann,Inc.
C O U R T R E P O R T E R S
121 sw Morrison st., Suite 850
Portland, OR 97204
(3601 695-5554 j503) 223-4040
Fax (3601 695-1737 w.slreporting.com slinc@qwestoffice.net
Tony Lee Carter, 8/8/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys
2
APPEARANCES :
For the Plaintiffs: MR. THOMAS M. STEENSON
Attorney at Law
815 S.W. Second, Suite 500
Portland, OR 97204
For the Defendants MR. JAMES RICE

Humphreys, Nice, and Attorney at Law
City of Portland: 1221 S.W. Fourth, Suite 430
Portland, OR 97204
For the Defendants MS. SUSAN DUNAWAY
Burton and Multnomah Attorney at Law
County : 501 S.E. Hawthorne, Suite 502
Portland, OR 97214
For the Defendant MS. JEAN BACK

AMR : Attorney at Law
1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900
Portland, OR 97204
Also Present: Kari Furnanz
INDEX
EXAMINATION BY: PAGE NO.
Ms. Dunaway 3 - 11
Mr. Rice 11 - 26
Ms. Back 26 - 35
EXHIBITS
[None marked.1
Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

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3
PORTLAND, OREGON; FRIDAY, AUGUST 8, 2008
8:56 AM
* * *
TONY LEE CARTER
called as a witness in behalf of the Defendants,
having first been sworn by the Reporter,
testifies as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MS. DUNAWAY:
Q. Hi, Mr. Carter. My name is Susan Dunaway.
I represent Multnomah County and Deputy Bret Burton in
this case.
Have you ever had your deposition taken
before?
A. No, I have not.
Q. Have you had a chance to talk with anyone
about what a deposition is?
A. NO.
Q. Okay. Have you had a chance to talk with
the plaintiff's attorney at all about having your
deposition taken?
A. Introduced just minutes ago.
Q. Just minutes ago, okay.
Well, what is going to happen is I'm going
to ask you some questions. You've just taken an oath.

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Anything you say here is under penalty of perjury. If

you're called as a witness at trial, then anything
that you say at trial that is inconsistent with what
you say today could be pointed out to the jury. Do
you understand that?
A. I understand.
Q. Okay. Did you have enough sleep last night
so that you'll be able to understand all my questions?
A. I hope.
Q. Okay. Are you on any medications?
A. No.
Q. Okay. If during the time that I'm asking
questions, if you don't fully understand my question,
would you let me know right away so I can try to
rephrase it so that it's more understandable to you?
A. I will.
Q. Okay. Where do you work?
A. I work in Carlton.
Q. In Carlton?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And what do you do?
A. I'm an electrician.
Q. And how long have you worked in Carlton?
A. A year and a half --
Q. Okay.

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5
A. - - roughly.
Q. Where did you work previous to that?

A. Previous to that I worked in California.
Q. Okay. So how long have you been in Oregon?
A. About two years.
Q. Were you in California or Oregon in
September ' 0 6 ?
A. I was here.
Q. You were here, okay.
And where were you working at that time?
A. At that time -- oh, Carlton.
Q. In Carlton, okay.
Well, the reason why you received a subpoena
in this case is because I sent some questions to the
plaintiffs' attorney, and the questions concerned
claims that the plaintiff is making against the
county, against the city, and against the ambulance
company in regard to certain disabilities that
plaintiff alleges that Mr. Chasse had. You were named
as somebody who would know something about those
disability claims, okay. So my first question to you
is: Did you know Mr. Chasse?
A. I did not.
Q. Okay. Were you present at the Blue Hour or
in that vicinity of N.W. 13th and Everett on September

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6
17th?
A. I was.
Q. You were, okay.
Do you know anything about Mr. Chasse having
a disability?
A. Only after the fact.
Q. Okay. So would that be only what you read
in the newspaper or saw on TV?
A. I heard on the radio.
Q. Heard it on the radio, okay.
Have you ever made a claim yourself based on
a disability?
A. Negative - - in the military, yes, I did.
Q. And what was that?
A. Ankle injury.
Q. Okay. So was that more like a workers' comp
type of claim but in the military?
A. Not a workers1 comp. It was a - - I damaged
my ankles and you just file a -- in case there's
complications after the fact years later. That's the
only reason you file it.
Q. Okay, all right. So when were you in the
military?
A. '89 through '94.
Q. Okay. And did the ankle disability have

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7
anything to do with your leaving the military?
A. Negative.
Q. Okay. Where -- why were you in the vicinity
of 13th and Everett on September 17th?
A. Shopping with family and friends.
Q. Okay. So what was it then -- let's go back
then to September 17th. Did you see the altercation
between Mr. Chasse and the police officers?
A. I did not.
Q. You did not, okay.
Where were you about, say, 5:15 then on
September 17th, 2006?
A. I was shopping in that area at, what is that
place, don't know the name of the place. It sells
Asian furniture right on the corner of the little
restaurant that - - where this happened at.
Q. So you were in the same block as the Blue
Hour restaurant?
A. Correct.
20 Q. Okay. You did not see any altercation
21 between Mr. Chasse and the police officers?
22 A. I did not.
23 Q. Okay. Did you make any statements to the
24 police after the altercation?
25 A. I did not.

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Q. Were you interviewed by anyone after this

incident?
A. I was not.
Q. Okay. Did you talk to anyone in that
vicinity after the incident?
A. I asked a woman who was passing by what had
happened.
Q. And what did she tell you?
A. She said something about the cops were
holding him and that was it.
Q. Do you know who that woman was?
A. No idea. She was just a passer-by.
Q. Where do you live now?
A. I live in Salem.
Q. Okay. And what is your address?
A.
Q. Did you observe anything on that day at that

place in regard to the arrival of an ambulance?
20 A. I did not see the ambulance arrive.
21 Q. Okay. So I want to get this straight. You
22 did not see the altercation between Mr. Chasse and the
23 police - -
24 A. Negative.
25 Q. - - is that correct?
SchmittLehrnann, Inc.
&
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A. That is correct.
Q. Did you see anything having to do with the
officers chasing Mr. Chasse?
A. I did not.
Q. Okay. You didn't see anything with - -
having to do with the ambulance arriving?
A. Not when it arrived, no.
Q. Did you see the ambulance leave?
A. No.
Q. You did not.
Did you talk to anyone other than that one
woman whose name you can't remember or never found out
about the incident?
A. No. I just asked the one question.
Q. Okay. And other than today, with whom have
you, if you have, had a conversation about that
particular incident?
A. The only person I talked to was Mary who was
there with me.
Q. And who's Mary?
A. Mary Jean.
Q. Mary Jean Whittemeier?
A. Don't know her last name. I know her maiden
name, Kornott, but I don't know her married name.
Q. Okay. Is that the woman from Indiana or

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Ohio?
A. Ohio.
Q. Ohio, okay.
Okay. So were you shopping with Mary Jean
that day?
A. I was.
Q. Okay, all right. Is she a relative or
friend?
A. She's a friend - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - of my family.
Q. Do you know if Mary Jean saw the
altercation?
A. I do not - - I walked out. She was already
out there. I do not know.
Q. Okay. You said you had a conversation with
her. Do you remember what was said during that
conversation?
A. I asked - - as I came out, I asked what had
happened.
Q. Okay. Do you remember what she said?
A. I do not.
Q. Don't.
A. She -- I don't know if she was over there or
not. I have no idea.

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11
Q. And other than Mary Jean, that was the only
conversation you've had?

A. That's it.
Q. Okay. And you don't know anything about
Mr. Chasse's disabilities?
A. No. Only the radio.
Q. Okay. That's all the questions I have.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. RICE:
Q. Good morning, Mr. Carter. My name's Jim
Rice. I work for the City of Portland. I'm a lawyer
there.
A. M-hm.
Q. I'd like ask you some other questions, maybe
something that's hasn't been asked.
You were in the military from 1989 to 1994;
is that right?
A. Right.
Q. And what branch of the - -
A. Army.
Q. And what was the name of your military
occupational specialty?
A. Infantryman.
Q. So you were an 11B?
A. I was 11B, that's 11 Bravo, 11 Charlie, and

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11 Hotel.
Q. Okay. And 11B is - -

A. Infantry.
Q. Infantry/light weapons. C is mortars?
A. Mortars.
Q. And what's H?
A. Hotel is a missile gunner on the top of a
humvee .
Q. Okay. Did you serve overseas?
A. No, I didn't - - well, Hawaii.
Q. Okay. Best part of overseas maybe to serve
in.
So you were with the 25th infantry over
there?
A. Correct.
Q. You've indicated you did not see the
ambulance arrive; is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. Did you see any care that was provided by
anybody from the ambulance company?
A. NO.
Q. Did you see any care that was given by
anyone from the Portland Fire Bureau?
A. No.
Q. Did you talk to anybody from the ambulance

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company?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you overhear anyone from the ambulance
company say anything?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you hear anyone from the Portland Fire
Bureau say anything?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you have any conversation with anyone
from the Portland Fire Bureau?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you have any conversation with any

Portland Police officer that day?
A. No.
Q. Have you had any conversation with any

Portland Police officer subsequent to that day?
A. No.
Q. Have you had any conversation with anyone

that worked at the Blue Hour?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever actually see Mr. Chasse?
A. I did.
Q. And where was he when you saw him?
A. On the ground.
Q. And can you describe Mr. Chasse's appearance

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for us?
A. He was in a contorted position, knees - - one
knee up, one knee on the ground, elbow up in the air.
Q. Was he handcuffed at that time?

A. Could not see if he was or was not.
Q. Was anyone touching him when you saw him?

A. No. An officer was standing above him.
Q- Okay. How many officers?

A. One.
Q. Do recall the color of the clothing of that

officer?
A. Earth tone color.
Q. Okay. And by earth tone, I think of that as
brownish or off brown?
A. A dark color, I could not be --
Q. Okay. And when that one officer was

standing over Mr. Chasse, was anyone near him?
A. Yes. A woman, curly hair. I want to say
Navy blue uniform.
Q. And what was she doing?
A. ~ u s tstanding there.
Q. All right. When you were looking at
Mr. Chasse, could you see his face?
A. No. No movement.
Q. You couldn't see his face?

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A. No.
I can see, well, part of his face, yes.
Q. Okay. As you looked at his face, is there
any injury that you could see?

A. NO.
Q. As you looked at his body, could you see any
injury?
A. No, I could not.
Q. When you say his body was in a contorted
position, what part of his body was in a contorted
posit ion?
A. Arms and legs.
Q. Okay. And can you describe how it was
contorted?
A. Well, he had a knee up - - he looked as
though it was like this and one knee up.
Q. Okay. So am I correct that he's - - is he
lying on his side?
A. He - - partially, yes.
Q. Okay. And if he's not completely on his
side, what part of the ground is making contact with
his body in his upper part of his body?
A. I want to say the side of one of his arms.
Q. Okay. Could you see any injury to an arm?
A. No.

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Q. Any injury to a leg?

A. No.
Q. Any injury to his head?
A. NO.
Q. Did you see anyone strike Mr. Chasse?
A. No.
Q. Anyone kick Mr. Chasse?
A. No.
Q. Was Mr. Chasse making any sound at this
time?
A. No.
Q. Was he moving at all?
A. No.
Q. How long did you observe Mr. Chasse?
A. Off and on maybe 45 minutes.
Q. Okay. And is that from the first time you
came out?
A. Correct.
Q. And did you - - were you going back and forth
into the shop?
A. I was.
Q. Okay. So you were shopping for furniture;
is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. So from the first time you saw Mr. Chasse

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Tony Lee Carter, 8 / 8 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v. Humphreys
17
1 until the time you no longer saw him, that was
approximately 45 minutes?
A. I - - roughly.
Q. Okay. I'm not holding you to the minute.
But at some point you came out and he was
just gone?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Tell me - - tell me what else you know
about Mr. Chasse.
A. I left before he was taken away.
Q. Isee.
And that day, that was a Sunday, does that
sound right to you?
A. I cannot remember.
Q. Okay. Had you had any alcoholic beverages
to drink that day?
A. No.
Q. Were you on any medicine or anything like
that?
A. No.
Q. Sometimes people have had things happen to
them during the course of a couple of years and
sometimes they end up with a head injury of some kind
that might affect their memory. Anything like that?
A. NO.

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Q. Not that you know of?

A. Not that I know of.
Q. All right. Where do you work in Carlton?
A. Where do I --
Q. Yeah.
Do you work in some particular company
there?
A. I work for Brightside Electric.
Q. Okay. Do they do residential or commercial
or both?
A. Both.
Q. And is your job then an electrician?
A. I'm a service electrician.
Q. And what does service electrician mean?
A. Drive the van to different jobs.
Q. Okay. So you're more a driver than a person
with works with electrical things?
A. No. I do both.
Q. And are you certified somehow to be a
electrician?
A. I'm state licensed.
Q. Did you have the opportunity to go to
college after high school?
A. I did.
Q. And where did you go?

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A. University of Hawaii.
Q. And did you end up with a degree from
University of Hawaii?
A. No.
Q. Did you -- did your studies at the
University of Hawaii prepare you to do electrical
work?
A. I took courses conclusive to becoming an
electronics technician.
Q. Okay. So that was - - that was what your
major would be?
A. It was more associate's program.
Q. An associate's program, all right. Did you
get an AA degree?
A. No.
Q. So I'm trying to make sure I understand
this. You come out of the store and you see
Mr. Chasse, he's lying in somewhat of a contorted
position. You didn't hear any conversation from any
police officer, medical-trained person?
A. NO.
Q. Was there any conversation you had with
people in the surrounding area other than what you've
told us about?
A. No.

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Q. Did you hear any mention of drugs?

A. No.
Q. Did you hear anything regarding someone
having a criminal conviction?
A. No.
Q. It's uncertain at this time if there's going
to be a trial. And if there is a trial we might want
to subpoena witnesses. Is there a best phone number
to try and reach you at for scheduling things?
A. Yes.
Q. And what's that number?
A. 503-602-2661.
Q. Is that a home phone, a work phone, a cell

phone?
A. That's all three.
Q. All right. In basic training in AIT, did
you have any medical training?
A. Yes.
Q. First aid?
A. First aid, combat medical training, and
advanced infantry training.
Q. Where did you go to basic training?
A. Fort Benning, Georgia.
Q. And how about AIT?
A. Fort Benning, Georgia.

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21
Q. Based on what you learned in the military

regarding medical training, did you see anything
involving Mr. Chasse you thought was inappropriate
from a medical standpoint?
A. Did not assess that at the time.
Q. Okay. And how about since then, made any
other assessment?
A. Only his position.
Q. Okay. What do you believe about his
position that was right or wrong?
A. He should have been lying stretched out.
Q. In other words, not having - - and having his
legs straight out?
A. Correct.
Q. And why do you think it was inappropriate
that his legs were in a bent position?
A. Didn't know what was wrong with him so
you're asking me to assume.
Q. Okay. And I'm not going to ask you to
assume if you don't know what was wrong, okay.
Have you had any contact with the Chasse
family?
A. No.
Q. Have you talked to any lawyers about your
testimony?

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A. No.
Q. Have you -- did you appear before the grand
jury?
A. No.
Q. Have you given any recorded statements
either by tape recorder or video or film, anything
like that?
A. No.
Q. Did you - - when Mr. Chasse was lying on the
ground, did you ever observe his face?
A. Only when he moved.
Q. Okay. And what kind of movement was he
doing?
A. Slow sporadic movements.
Q. Okay. Did you ever hear him say anything or
make any noises?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you hear him actually say words?

A. NO.
Q. You heard him make noises?
A. Moan.
Q. Okay. Was he moaning part of the time or
all of the time you saw him?
A. After - - after herd been there a while.
Q. Was it a quiet moan, a loud moan? How would

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you describe that?
A. Loud, uncomfortable.
Q. Did you ever see any blood associated with
Mr. Chasse?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever assess his state of
consciousness?
A. No.
Let me correct that.
Q. Sure, go ahead.
A. I thought he was unconscious or dead when I
first saw him.
Q. Okay. When you first saw him, what led you
to believe that he was unconscious?
A. No movement whatsoever.
Q. How long did you observe him when he had no
movement whatsoever?
A. Quite a while. I was wondering to myself
why they weren't taking him away 'cause I thought he
was dead.
Q. Okay. Did you actually think he was dead as
opposed to unconscious?
A. Correct.
Q. All right. So when h e r s - - h e r s lying there
on the ground with his legs in a contorted position;

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right?
A. (Nods head. )
Q. And you think he's dead. How long did you
observe him before you saw some movement on the part
of Mr. Chasse or some other sign of life?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay.
A. I know I entered and exited the store and he
was still there in the same position.
Q. Okay. And do you know how long it was from
when you first saw him being very still or dead as you
perceived it to coming out the second time?
A. Third time.
Q. Third time.
A. No, I don't know.
Q. When you looked at Mr. Chasse, did you note
his skin coloration?
A. NO.
Q. Did you take any photographs that day?
A. No.
Q. Have - - what's your principal source of
22 information or news?
23 A. Radio.
24 Q. Okay. Have you listened to radio shows
25 regarding Mr. Chasse?

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25
A. NO.
Q. Did you have any indication that day that
there was something mentally wrong with Mr. Chasse or
Mr. Chasse was suffering from some mental disability?
A. No.
Q. I've tried to listen to the first lawyer and
then sort of chronologically go through what's
happened, what you observed. Is there anything that
you consider significant that you've not told us about
today regarding Mr. Chasse?
A. Significant in what way?
Q. Well, that you think pertains to how he was
injured, whether he was injured, whether he received
treatment, whether he didn't receive treatment,
something that should have been done for Mr. Chasse
that wasn't done for him.
A. I thought it took a while, too long, once I
realized he was still moving later on, that he was
still alive, why weren't they treating him.
Q. Okay. You felt that the health care
providers should have done more for him?
A. Correct.
Q. Anything else?
A. That's it.
Q. Did you have the ability to assess the scene

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26
and say they should be doing something other than
treating him just generally?
MR. STEENSON: Objection, vague.
Q. (By Mr. Rice) He's making a record for the
judge. You can go ahead and answer the question.
A. I don't understand the question. Can you
repeat it?
Q. As you sit here today, do you think that
there's something that should have been done for
Mr. Chasse medically that wasn't done?
MR. STEENSON: Speculation.
THE WITNESS: Other than providing medical
care, I don't know.
Q. (By Mr. Rice) Okay. Thanks for coming down
here today. Maybe the other lawyer would like to ask
you a question.
EXAMINATION
BY MS. BACK:
Q. Hi there, my name's Jean Back, and I
represent AMR, the ambulance company that was there.
And I just want to go through again your
observations of Mr. Chasse. I'm trying not to repeat
stuff, but I'm still a little unclear as to how this
all played out and what you saw.
A. Okay.
SchmittLehmann, Inc.
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Q. So you were in the store, the Asian

furnishing store; correct?
A. M-hm.
Q. And the first time that you came out, what
did you observe?
A. I saw Mr. Chasse lying on the ground and an
officer above him.
Q. And at that time, did you also see the woman
with curly hair?
A. Idid.
Q. And what color - - did you see the front of
this woman or the back?
A. She was moving, a little bit of both.
Q. And do you have - - do you know what agency
she was with?
A. No idea.
Q. Do you know whether she was with the
ambulance company?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Did she have any gloves on?
A. I don't know.
Q. Was the ambulance there - -
A. Yes.
Q. -- at the time?
What length was the woman's hair?
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Tony L e e Carter, 8 / 8 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v . Humphreys
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A. To h e r s h o u l d e r s .
Q. And were t h e r e any o t h e r people b e s i d e s j u s t
t h a t woman and t h e o t h e r person around?
A. Firemen were t h e r e .
Q. And what makes you s a y t h a t t h e y were
firemen?
A. Only t h e way t h e y were d r e s s e d .
Q. How were t h e y - -
A. Boots.
Q. Anything e l s e ?
A. That's it.
Q. Okay. Was t h e f i r e t r u c k t h e r e a s well
then?
A. I d o n ' t know i f t h e t r u c k was t h e r e . I
d i d n ' t see i t .
Q. So am I c o r r e c t i n understanding t h a t you
d i d n ' t observe M r . Chasse b e f o r e -- t h i s was t h e f i r s t
time t h a t you observed him and s o you d i d n ' t observe
him b e f o r e t h e ambulance was t h e r e ?
A. Correct.
Q. And a t t h e time t h a t you looked a t
Mr. Chasse i n t h a t prone p o s i t i o n , you d i d n ' t s e e him
moving?
A. Correct.
Q. Did you - - were you a b l e t o s e e h i s c h e s t o r

( 3 6 0 ) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
his back?
A. No.
Q. So were you able to discern whether he was
breathing?
A. I could not see him - - any movement.
Q. And you may have missed some of the
interactions that the ambulance company was doing with
Mr. Chasse before you got there?
A. Possibly.
Q. And then - - so you observed him at that
point in time. How long did you stay out there
watching him?
A. Don1t know.
Q. Okay. And then you went back into the
store?
A. Correct
Q. And how long were you in the store?
A. Off and on. I have no idea of the time
passage.
Q. Do you have any idea what you were doing
when you walked back into the store?
A. Talking my daughter.
Q. Okay. Did your daughter also observe - -
A. NO.
Q. - - any of this?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
30
A. I told her not to go outside.

Q. Who else was there with you that - - other
than your daughter and Mary - - Mary Jean?
A. Mary Jean's sister, my wife's mother, my
wife, my son, my daughter, myself.
Q. Who else besides you and Mary Jean observed
this incident?
A. Only us two.
Q. Only the two of you, the others all stayed
in the store?
A. Correct.
Q. And they didn't observe any portion of it?
A. No.
Other than leaving, when leaving they might
have glanced over.
Q. Okay. What is your - - what are the names of
all the people that were there?
A. My wife is Triz, Mary Jean's sister is Joan,
my son Alex, my daughter Miya, and my wife's mom is
Honna .
Q. And how would we reach the folks that
don't -- I assume your wife, your son, and your
daughter all live with you. If we were wanting to
reach any of those other people, how would we reach
them?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
Tony L e e C a r t e r , 8 / 8 / 2 0 0 8 C h a s s e v. Hurnphreys
31
A. You could ask Mary Jean for her sister's

phone number, and if you need to talk to my wife's
mother I can give you that number.
Q. Okay. So you went back into the store and
then at some point you came back out?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And then tell me what you saw when
you came back out.
A. The second time?
Q. Right.
A. Same thing. I saw interaction between the
firemen talking, the police still standing over
Mr. Chasse, and no movement.
Q. He still wasn't moving?
A. NO.
Q. And did you hear anything?
A. Not at the second time.
Q. The first time, is that when you heard the
moaning?
A. NO.
Q. And you didn't hear anything the second time
either?
A. Correct.
Q. And you didn't observe AMR doing any sort of
medical treatment?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
32
A. That's correct.
Q. And did you observe the fire fighters doing
any medical treatment?
A. No.
Q. And how long did you observe him during this
time, the second time?
A. The second time? I don't know the time that
transpired.
Q. Okay. Fair enough.
So you - - did you observe him to be
breathing on the second time?
A. No.
Q. Do you know for sure he wasn't breathing?
A. I do not know.
Q. You didn't observe the rise and fall of his
chest?
A. That's correct.
Q. Did - - and you couldn't see his face?
A. Only partially.
Q. Could you see whether his eyes were open?
A. No.
Q. Could you see whether he was talking?
A. He was not talking.
Q. Were you able to - - were you close enough
that you could hear conversation in that - - that

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
33
specific area?
A. NO.
Q. Okay. So the second time then you went back
in the store?
A. Correct.
Q. And what did you do when you went back in
the store?
A. Looked around again. I'm not a shopper.
And then I went back outside.
Q. Okay. And how long do you think you were in
the store?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Okay, don't guess.
So you went out a third time?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And then tell me what you saw when
you went out the third time.
A. The third time I saw Mr. Chasse moving.
Q. Okay. You saw him moving?
A. Correct.
Q. Did you hear anything?
A. I heard him moaning as he was moving.
Q. And what movements was he making?
A. Movement with his arm and legs.
Q. And do you know what prompted that movement,

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
Tony Lee Carter, 8/8/2008 Chasse v. Hurnphreys
34
if anything?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Did you observe AMR to take his pulse?
A. NO.
Q. Did you see a medical kit anywhere near his
body?
A. No.
Q. Do you know what a blood glucose is?
A. NO.
Q. Okay. So the third time you saw him moving
and you heard him moaning?
A. Correct.
Q. How long did you observe him during that
third period?
A. Don't know.
Q. Don't know, okay.
Then what happened?
A. He moved around. They just looked at him.
I wondered what was going on because I don't know what
had happened - - I did not know.
Q. Okay. But being in and out of the store,
it's conceivable that you could have missed things
that were going on with respect to Mr. Chasse?
A. Possibly.
Q. Do you - - have you spoken with anyone at all

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
35
from Mr. Steenson's office - -

A. No.
Q. - - with respect to this case?
No investigators have come out and spoken
with you?
A. No.
Q. How do you - - do you have any idea how your
name became associated with this case?

A. I'm assuming Mary Jean.
Q. Okay. I don't think I have any further
questions for you. So some of these lawyers might
have some follow-up.
MR. STEENSON: No questions.
MS. DUNAWAY: No.
MR. RICE: Thank you for coming down,
Mr. Carter.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
(The deposition concluded at 9:27 AM.)

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
C E R T I F I C A T E
STATE OF WASHINGTON )
) ss
COUNTY OF CLARK )
I, Shannon K. Krska, a Certified Shorthand

Reporter for Oregon, do hereby certify that, pursuant
to stipulation of counsel for the respective parties
hereinbefore set forth, TONY LEE CARTER personally
appeared before me at the time and place set forth in
the caption hereof; that at said time and place I
reported in Stenotype all testimony adduced and other
oral proceedings had in the foregoing matter; that
thereafter my notes were reduced to typewriting under
my direction; and that the foregoing transcript, pages
3 to 35, both inclusive, constitutes a full, true and
accurate record of all such testimony adduced and oral

proceedings had, and of the whole thereof.
Witness my hand and CSR stamp at Vancouver,
Washington, this 14th day of August, 2008.
&&U
Shannon K. Krska
Certified Shorthand Reporter
Oregon CSR No. 90-0216

(360) 695-5554 * * ( 5 0 3 ) 223-4040

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON

and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE )

For the Defendants MR. JAMES RICE

For the Defendant MS. JEAN BACK

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

PORTLAND, OREGON; FRIDAY, AUGUST 8, 2008

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Anything you say here is under penalty of perjury. If

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Where did you work previous to that?

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Were you interviewed by anyone after this

Q. Did you observe anything on that day at that

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. And other than Mary Jean, that was the only

conversation you've had?

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Okay. And 11B is - -

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Did you have any conversation with any

Q. Have you had any conversation with any

Q. Have you had any conversation with anyone

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Was he handcuffed at that time?

Q. Was anyone touching him when you saw him?

Q- Okay. How many officers?

Q. Do recall the color of the clothing of that

Q. Okay. And when that one officer was

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

any injury that you could see?

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Any injury to a leg?

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Not that you know of?

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Did you hear any mention of drugs?

Q. Is that a home phone, a work phone, a cell

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Based on what you learned in the military

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Did you hear him actually say words?

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. So you were in the store, the Asian

Schmitt & Lehrnann, Inc.

Q. And were t h e r e any o t h e r people b e s i d e s j u s t

t h a t woman and t h e o t h e r person around?

Q. And what makes you s a y t h a t t h e y were

A. Only t h e way t h e y were d r e s s e d .

Q. Okay. Was t h e f i r e t r u c k t h e r e a s well

A. I d o n ' t know i f t h e t r u c k was t h e r e . I

d i d n ' t observe M r . Chasse b e f o r e -- t h i s was t h e f i r s t

time t h a t you observed him and s o you d i d n ' t observe

him b e f o r e t h e ambulance was t h e r e ?

Q. And a t t h e time t h a t you looked a t

Mr. Chasse i n t h a t prone p o s i t i o n , you d i d n ' t s e e him