Lillegaard Transcript

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON

JAMES P. CHASSE, JR.; JAMES P. 1
CHASSE; LINDA GERBER; and MARK
CHASSE, individually and in his
Copy
capacity as Personal Representative )
of the ESTATE OF JAMES P. CHASSE, )
JR., )
Plaintiffs, )
V. )NO. CV-07-0189-HU
CHRISTOPHER HUMPHREYS; KYLE NICE; )
CITY OF PORTLAND; CITY OF PORTLAND )
JOHN DOE FIREFIGHTERS/PARAMEDICS;
PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU and OTHER )
PORTLAND JOHN and JANE DOE 1
OFFICIALS; BRET BURTON; MULTNOMAH )
COUNTY; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and )
JANE DOE DEPUTY SHERIFFS and MEDICAL)
PERSONNEL; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and)
JANE DOE SHERIFF'S OFFICE and OTHER )
OFFICIALS; TRI-COUNTY METROPOLITAN )
TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT OF OREGON; )
and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE 1

NORTHWEST, INC.,
Defendants.
)
DEPOSITION OF
DAVID E. LILLEGAARD
Taken in behalf of Defendants
* * *
July 17, 2008
1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900
on
Shannon K. Krska, CSR
- ..
court Reporter
400 Columbia, swte 140
Vancouver, W A 98660
Schrmtt&Lehmann, Inc. 121 sw Morr~sons t , s u ~ t e850
Portland, OR 97204
C O U R T R E P O R T E R S
(360) 695 5554 (503) 223 4040
Fax 13601 695-1737 www sireporting corn sl~nc@~westoffice
net
David E. Lillegaard, 7/17/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiffs: MR. THOMAS M. STEENSON
Attorney at Law
8 1 5 S.W. Second, Suite 500
Portland, OR 9 7 2 0 4
For the Defendants MR. JAMES RICE

Humphreys, Nice, and Attorney at Law
City of Portland: 1 2 2 1 S.W. Fourth, Suite 430
For the Defendants MS. SUSAN DUNAWAY
Burton and Multnomah Attorney at Law
County: 5 0 1 S.E. Hawthorne, Suite 502
For the Defendant MS. JEAN BACK

AMR : Attorney at Law
1 2 1 1 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900
INDEX
EXAMINATION BY: PAGE NO.
Mr. Rice 3 - 49
Ms. Dunaway 49 - 63
Ms. Back 63 - 7 1
Mr. Steenson 7 1 - 75
Mr. Rice 75 - 7 5
EXHIBITS
No. 302 Diagram 49
Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

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Lillegaard, 7/17/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
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PORTLAND, OREGON; THURSDAY, JULY 17, 2008
DAVID E. LILLEGAARD
called as a witness in behalf of the Defendants,
having first been sworn by the Reporter,
testifies as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. RICE:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Lillegaard. I'm Jim
Rice. I work for the City of Portland. And we just
introduced ourselves to each other.
A. M-hm.
Q. You're here to have your deposition taken
today. Are you aware of that?
A. Yes.
Q. And have you ever had your deposition taken
before?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever testified in court before?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And what kind of a case was that,
matter was that?
A. Gosh, I barely remember. It was like 20
years ago.

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Q. Okay.
A. It was involving like some other thing that
I witnessed.
Q. You were a witness?
A. I was a witness, yeah.
Q. All right. Have you had a chance to talk to
anybody about what a deposition is?
A. Not really.
Q. Okay. It's a - -
A. Well, yes.
Q. Okay.
A. I talked to him this morning on the phone.
Q. Mr. Steenson?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. And did he generally go over with you - -
A. Yeah.
Q. - - what a deposition was?
A. Yes.
Q. So it's - -
A. But not before today.
Q. Okay. And it's an opportunity for lawyers
to ask perhaps a witness questions to determine what
they're aware of. Do you understand that?
A. Yes.
Q. And what I'm going to do is ask you

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1 questions and ask you to answer them out loud instead
2 of just nodding your head so the court reporter here
3 can take down the answer accurately.
4 A. Okay.
5 Q. Fair enough?
6 A. Fair enough.
7 Q. If I ask you a question that doesn't make
8 sense, you don't understand a word or it sounds
9 garbled, would you tell me and I'll try to change the
10 wording around so it makes sense to you?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. If I ask you a question and - - what I'm
13 going to ask you to do is wait for me to finish the
14 question before you respond, and that way only one of
15 us is talking at a time and that helps our court
16 reporter get everything down accurately.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. Okay. If you, during this process, need to
19 take a break, get a glass of water, use the rest room
20 or something, all you have to do is finish answering
21 the question and then you just tell us you want to
22 take a break and we'll do that for you. Okay?
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. Do you - - are you on any medication or ill
25 or is - - lack of sleep, is there any reason you can't

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1 give us your best answers here today?
2 A. NO.
3 Q. If you're called as a witness if this matter
4 goes to trial down the road and you answered a
5 question here today, you answer it differently in
6 court, do you understand that any lawyer would have
7 the right to point that out to the jury?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. So it's important that I both
10 hopefully ask a clear question to you and you can
11 respond to it. All right?
12 A. All right.
13 Q. Good.
14 Would you tell us your full name, please?
15 A. David Eric Lillegaard.
16 Q. And, Mr. Lillegaard, have you gone by any
other names?
A. NO.
Q. What's your date of birth?
A.
Q. And where do you reside?
A. Portland, S.E. Seventh and Morrison.
Q. Okay. And what's the actual address there?
A.
25 Q. Okay. I don't know what's going to happen

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1 when this matter goes to trial, but if it is, we

2 usually subpoena someone, and it's nice to be able to
3 call that person to try and arrange for a time for
4 them to show up so they're not waiting around for a
5 long time.
6 A. M-hm.
7 Q. Is there a best number, a cell phone or
8 something that's the best number to try and reach you
9 at?
10 A. Yes, hold on.
11 Q. Maybe you can tell us what that is.
12 A.
13 Q. Okay. Thank you.

14 And how tall are you?
15 A. Sixone.
16 Q. Okay. And where were you born?
17 A. Portland.
18 Q. Okay. Did you grow up in Portland?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Did you get a chance to go to high school in
21 Portland?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did you graduate from high school?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And which high school did you graduate from?

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A. Milwaukie High School.

Q. Following high school, did you have any
formal education?
A. No - - well, I went to beauty school.
Q. Okay. Well, there's different kinds of - -
A. Right, right.
Q. - - education and training you have. So you
went to become a hairstylist; is that right?
A. M-hm.
Q. Okay. And where did you go to school?
A. Milwaukie Beauty School.
Q. Okay. How long is that course of study?
A. About two years.
Q. When did you graduate from that program?
A. '95, I think.
Q. Okay.
A. Yeah.
Q. A variety of occupations when you're done
with your schooling you somehow get registered with
the state. Is that true in your line of work?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Do you have to take a test to do
that?
A. M-hm.
Q. And is that put on by the State of Oregon?

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A. Yes.
Q. And do they issue a license?
A. M-hm.
Q. Do you currently have a license?
A. Yes.
Q. And what's the license in?
A. Barbering and hair dressing.
Q. Okay. Can you give me a summary of what
your work experience has been in the last five years?
A. Last five years? Well, the last three years
I was working at Rudy's in the Pearl District.
Q. What period of time was that?
A. That's from ' 9 5 (sic) till the present day.
Q. Till the present, okay.
A. And then prior to that I was living in
Philadelphia for a couple of years.
Q. Okay.
A. And I was not officially licensed for the
first year for a while, but I -- you know, I was doing
hair in my home.
Q. Okay. Kind of on the side?
A. Yeah, kind of on the side.
Q. So what year did you actually get your
license?
A. There?

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1 Q. Is this in Philadelphia you're speaking of?
2 A. In Philadelphia.
3 Q. Isee.
4 A. I got my license in ninety - - I mean 2004.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Something like that. I can't remember
7 exactly, to be honest with you.
8 Q. And then you moved back to Portland; is that
9 right?
10 A. Right.
11 Q. And have you been in Portland since that
12 time?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Living here at least?
15 A. M-hm.
16 Q. This incident happened in September of '06,
17 we're talking about Mr. Chasse today.
18 A. Right.
19 Q. At that time, did you need any sort of a
20 hearing aid or glasses, contact lenses, anything like
21 that?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Do you have any medical training?
24 A. NO.
25 Q. Any training in psychology?
Schrnitt & Lehrnann, Inc.

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A. No.
Q. Any training in martial arts?
A. NO.
Q. Ever in the military?
A. No.
Q. How about a contact with law enforcement
officers, have you had any contact with the Portland
Police or any other law enforcement officers?
A. Ever?
Q. Yeah.
A. Yeah.
Q. And can you tell me what kind of contact
that's been?
A. 1998 - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - I got called by an officer to be
questioned about some money missing from a salon that
I managed at the time.
Q. Okay. So the police were making some sort
20 of an investigation?
21 A. Right.
22 Q. Is there anything about the police officers'
23 conduct at that time that you thought was
24 unprofessional or improper?
25 A. No.

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1 Q. Okay. How about any other incidents?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Have you ever been to the Swin - - Helen
4 Swindells apartment?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Do you know where that is?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Okay. This incident that we're going to
talk about today involved Mr. Chasse. Do you know
what I'm talking about?
A. NO.
Q. Okay. Did you witness the police officers
have an altercation with someone near Blue Hour in
September of 2006?
A. Hm-m - - well, I did witness the Chasse
incident in 2006.
Q. Did you?
A. Yeah.
Q. And that's what I'm asking you about.
A. Right, right.
Q. So you recall that incident?
A. I do remember that incident.
Q. All right. Had you ever seen or met
Mr. Chasse prior to that date?
A. No.

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1 Q. Okay. Did you have any contact with the
2 Chasse family?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Have you been interviewed about that
5 incident other than today?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And can you tell me who you've spoken to
8 about that incident?
9 A. A few people.
10 Q. Okay. I don't know if it's easier to do it
11 chronologically or --
12 A. Yeah, I'm going to try to do it

13 chronologically. Of course I got interviewed a few
14 days later by the detectives.
15 Q. All right. And those are detectives from
16 the Portland Police Bureau?
17 A. M-hm.
18 Q. All right. Who else?
19 A. And then that week was kind of whirlwind. I
2o got interviewed by Willamette Week - -
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. - - and I think Portland Mercury, I could be
23 wrong. It might be another -- it might have been

24 another Willamette Week follow-up.
25 Q. All right.

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1 A. But I think it was Portland Mercury.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. I'm not certain.
4 And then the private investigator.
5 Q. All right.
6 A. I forgot his name.
7 Q. Anybody else?
8 A. Then most recently I did an interview for a
9 documentary being filmed called Alien Boy.
10 Q. Okay. And that's a movie that's being
11 filmed?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And when was that filming taking place?
14 A. Couple months - -
15 Q. When did it take place?
16 A. Couple months ago.
17 Q. Have you ever gotten a copy of the footage
18 that you - -
19 A. NO.
20 Q. - - provided?
21 A. Hrn-m.
22 Q. Sometimes when people work on a film or a
23 documentary they're either given a script or an
24 outline or something like that to follow. Were you
25 given something like that?

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David E. Lillegaard, 7 / 1 7 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
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A. No.
Q. So it was kind of a question-and-answer
format - -
A. M-hm.
Q. -- is that what it was?
A. M-hm.
Q. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In your life's experience, have you ever had
a family member or a friend or through work had
contact with someone who had a serious mental illness?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us about that?
A. I had an uncle who committed suicide a
couple of years ago.
Q. Okay. And did he live here in the Portland
area when you were here?
A. This was when I was living in Philadelphia.
Q. Okay. Was he also in Philadelphia?
A. He was here in Portland.
Q. He was here?
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you know, did anyone ever tell you what
condition that your uncle suffered from?
A. It was depression.

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Q. Depression?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Could you tell he was depressed?
A. Yeah.
Q. Any other interaction with seriously
mentally ill people?
A. I have an aunt also. My dad's mom - - I
mean, my dad -- I'm sorry, my dad's sister who is
paranoid schizophrenia.
Q. And is she here in Portland?
A. No. She lives in South Dakota.
Q. Okay. Do you - - have you had regular
contact with her?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you go visit her or does she come to
visit you?
A. I visited -- last time I saw her was three
years ago.
Q. Okay. And do you know whether or not she
takes medication?
A. She does.
Q. Have you ever been around when you were told
it was - - or you perceived she was not taking
medication?
A. Yes.
Schrnitt & Lehmann, Inc.

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Q. Okay. And was her - - could you describe her
behavior when she was not taking medication, just in a
general sense?
A. Delusional, paranoid, yeah.
Q. Were you ever around when your aunt was in
that condition and she had any contact with either law
enforcement or medical people or - -
A. NO.
Q. -- social workers, anything like that?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Did you ever see her become physical
with other people?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Aside from - -
A. I mean, not violent.
Q. And that's what I meant.
A. Yeah.
Q. I don't mean just touching or holding hands.
A. Right.
Q. I mean an altercation of some kind.
A. Right.
Q. And you have not seen that?
A. Never, no.
Q. You talked about talking to Mr. Steenson on
the phone today. Have you talked to any other lawyers

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about this incident?

A. No.
Q. Were you called before the grand jury?
A. NO.
Q. I believe the day in question when the
incident with Mr. Chasse took place was a Sunday.
Does that sound right to you?
A. I don't remember the day, but yeah, it
sound - - I mean, it must have been because I usually
take my lunch early on Sunday because of my schedule
that day so I was at lunch at about one. I usually
start at 11 so I was at lunch at about one.
Q. Okay. And were you working at Rudy's
Barbershop that day?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there a name - - I think of it as being
called a hairstylist, maybe that's not technically
right. Is that what you're called?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have customers that come in and
you - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - work on them; is that correct?
A. Right.
Q. Do you sort of develop an outlook toward

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1 people's hair and style because of your job?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. On that day, did you have any alcohol to
4 drink?
5 A. NO.
6 Q. Or were you on any prescribed medication?
A. NO.
Q. Do you have a recollection about what time
9 of the day it was you observed Mr. Chasse interacting
10 with the police?
11 A. I can't remember exactly the time of the
12 day.
13 Q. This incident happened many months ago
14 and - -
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. -- there may be questions that I ask you
17 where you simply don't - - either never knew the answer
18 or no longer remember the answer.
19 A. Right, right.
20 Q. We appreciate that, too. So if you don't
21 recall or don't remember, just tell us that.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Very good.
24 Do you remember where you were when you
25 first saw Mr. Chasse?

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A. Yes.
Q. And where were you?
A. I was - - I had climbed up on the steps,
'Cause I saw the police. I didn't see Chasse right
away. I saw the police when I was in the middle of
the road walking back from Whole Foods.
Q. Okay. Had you gone to Whole Foods for
lunch?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So you're walking back from Whole
Foods?
A. Right, right.
Q. So you're at ground level on 13th at that
time - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - is that where you are?
A. Yes.
Q. And you saw some police cars?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Anything about the police cars that
is out of the ordinary for you?
A. That they were there in the first place.
Q. Okay. Do you know how many there were?
A. How many police? No, not exactly. I mean,
I can guess, but no.

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1 Q. I would actually rather have you not guess.

2 If you know, tell us.
3 A. Okay.
4 Q. Were there flashing lights on or emergency
5 lights on?
6 A. Not that I remember. It was daytime, so - -
7 Q. Okay. And as you approached, you see the
8 police cars, what did you see?
9 A. I walked up the stairs on the balcony by the
10 business that I work at.
11 Q. All right.
12 A. And I got a vantage point just from above,
13 and that's when I saw Chasse.
14 Q. Okay. When you went up the stairs to the
15 raised area there - -
16 A. Yeah.
17 Q. - - was there anyone else around that you
18 recognized?
19 A. A couple of my coworkers were sort of
20 peaking out. And I walked over by Blue Hour.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. So yes, yes.
23 Q. And when you say people --
24 A. The answer is yes.

25 Q. - - peaking out, you mean from inside the

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building outside?
A. Stepping outside and looking out a little
bit.
Q. And who were those people, if you recall?
A. Liz, Elizabeth; and Ann Stevenson - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - one of my other coworkers.
Q. All right. And when you walked up then you
walked somewhere on that raised platform; is that
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And where did you walk to?
A. I kind of moved around. I didn't walk
anywhere in general, but I moved around a little bit
to get different vantage points, so I walked over by
Blue Hour at one point.
Q. And once you're up there and either walking
towards Blue Hour - - or did you sort of stop between
the way?
A. Yeah. Between Wieden + Kennedy building and
Blue Hour. I was moving around, like I said, to get
different vantage points.
Q. And when you looked towards the area where
the officers were or Mr. Chasse was, what did you see?
A. I saw Chasse on the ground and I saw a bunch

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of people standing around him.

Q. And what kind of people or is there any
identification how you could tell us - -
A. Police -- police officers and ambulance
workers, like emergency workers.
Q. Okay. And when you looked at Mr. Chasse he
was on the ground. Was he lying on the ground - -
A. M-hm.
Q. -- is that right?
A. M-hm.
Q. Can you describe how he was lying on the
ground?
A. He was sort of -- kind of awkward. He was
kind of face down but on his side at the same time but
with his face kind of on the ground.
Q. Okay. A n d s o - -
A. And I saw - - like from his vantage point I
kind of saw his face.
Q. Would --
A. Like I like saw his profile.

Q. Would his face have been toward you or
facing away from you?
A. Sort of like his profile from what I saw.
Q. And --
A. And he was passed out.

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Q. Okay. We'll get to his condition later.

A. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry.
Q. I'm not sure what you mean by profile. So
you're just seeing one side of his face - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - is that fair?
A. Yes.
Q. And is his face point - - if we took his nose
as sort of an area, is his nose toward the ground,
toward you, or away from you?
A. Kind of diagonally towards the ground.
Q. Okay. And as you looked at Mr. Chasse on
his side with his face in the way you've described it,
could you tell whether or not he had any -- suffered
any injuries?
A. No.
Q. All right.
A. I mean, except for the blood on the ground,
so - -
Q. Okay. And where was the blood on the
ground?
A. By his face.
Q. All right. And was it directly beneath
where his nose would be or his mouth would be or was
it - -

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A. M-hm.
Q. - - off to one side?
A. It was right underneath his face, like he

was laying in it.
Q. All right. And is there a way for you
physically to describe how much blood there was?
A. I would say it was about six inches around,
just a small pool.
Q. Okay. And so it would be six inches across
like the diameter?
A. Right.
Q. From one edge of it to the other edge?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it mostly circular?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. You then also started to talk about
Mr. Chasse's other conditions that he had. Could you
tell whether or not he was conscious?
A. I can tell he was unconscious.
Q. Okay. And how could you tell that?
A. Because his eyes were closed. And I
remember from the different vantage points I was
trying to see if he was breathing. I couldn't tell.
Q. You couldn't tell?
A. I couldn't tell whether he was breathing or

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not.
Q. And you say his eyes were closed. Was it
his one eye or could you actually see both his eyes?
A. Both his eyes were closed from - - well, he
was laying down on one eye kind of, so, I mean, it was
obviously closed or open laying in the concrete, so - -
Q. So we're assuming one eye was closed?
A. Right.
Q. And you could see the other eye?
A. Right.
Q. And was the - - was he still?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any movement at all?
A. NO.
Q. How long did you observe him in a condition
when he was still?
A. About - - oh, gosh, I don't remember exactly.
I don't know. I don't know exactly, sorry.
Q. When he was in that condition, were there
police officers or medics of some sort around him?
A. Yes.
Q. Sometimes when we look at a group of people
we can differentiate them somehow. And I'll just
start by was there differences in clothing regarding
the people who were around Mr. Chasse?

(350) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
A. Yes.
Q. What do you recall about that?
A. I remember seeing police and what I, at the
time, assumed were security as well.
Q. Okay. What would make you say someone is
security?
A. They looked like the - - the Pearl District
security that work in the neighborhood.
Q. All right.
A. So I'm not sure how many were there. I
mean, it was pretty - - it was a small group, but it
was pretty like hectic.
Q. All right. And then could you differentiate
-- 1'11 call those law enforcement people. Were there
differences in their uniform colors?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. All right. And then was there another group
of uniforms that were different from law enforcement?
A. Yes. There were emergency workers.
Q. All right. Had you seen those emergency
workers other times downtown?
A. No.
Q. You'd never seen EMTs or other people?
A. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Q. Okay. So you have some sort of frame of

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reference to --
A. Yeah.
Q. - - recognizing them?
A. Yes, definitely.
Q. And were the police officers, as you're
observing them when Mr. Chasse is still, doing
anything?
A. Standing around looking at him.
Q. Okay. And how about the emergency - - or the
medical workers, the emergency workers, were they
doing anything?
A. One - - the lady, there was a lady in the
group.
Q. All right. What was she doing?
A. She had some sort of monitor.
Q. All right.
A. And she was checking him.
Q. Was she standing up or sitting or kneeling
or how would you describe her posture?
A. She was changing positions. She would stand
up. She - - from what I remember, she had him hooked
up to some kind of monitor because I remember
wondering what the monitor was all about. I think it
was a heart monitor --
Q. Okay.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
29
A. - - but I don't know.

Q. Okay.
A. And she was checking the monitor once in a
while.
Q. All right. Did you hear any conversation,
words that the police officers were saying around this
time?
A. No.
Q. How about any comments or conversation by
the EMT workers at this time?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Was - - and there was nothing going
back and forth that you could at least hear --
A. NO.
And is Mr. Chasse making any noise during
this period of time?
A. No.
Q. Did Mr. Chassels laying still ever change?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did you see or hear that led you to
that conclusion?
A. He became conscious again.
Q. All right. And how did he act when that
happened?

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30
1 A. Upset.
2 Q. Okay. And upset can mean a lot of things.
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. Can you describe, in detail, what you
5 remember about that?
6 A. I remember him yelling, but it wasnlt
7 making -- I couldn't understand exactly what he was
yelling. It was like garbled.

Q. All right. Was it loud or soft or how would
you describe it?
A. It was as loud as - - it was pretty loud. I
mean, not super loud. He wasn't screaming or
anything, but he was definitely yelling.
Q. All right. And could you make out actual
words?
A. No.
Q. All right. Were - - was anyone saying
anything back to him?
A. Not that I could recall.
Q. At this time, was he handcuffed?
A. Yes.
Q. What could you see regarding restraints or
handcuffing?
A. He had both his feet restrained and his
hands were restrained, and his feet and his hands were

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
31
1 restrained together from the back.

2 Q. Okay. So his hands were behind him and they
3 were restrained; is that right?
4 A. Right.
5 Q. And was there a connection then between the
6 handcuffing and the feet?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. All right. And how would you describe that
9 connection?
10 A. They were tied together by some device. I
11 don't -- I couldn't tell whether it was a rope or a
12 chain.
Q. Okay. And were - - was the attention by the
EMTs still ongoing when he was yelling like that?
A. From my frame of reference, when he was
yelling I couldn't really tell.
Q. Okay.
A. Yeah.
Q. Did you see the EMTs do anything other than
hooking him up with the device and doing whatever test
that was?
A. No, not at that point.
Q. Did you recall the EMTs doing anything other
than that test you've described with the machine?
A. No, I don't.

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32
1 Q. When the EMTs were working with Mr. Chasse,
2 did you see anyone else laying their hands on
3 Mr. Chasse or touching Mr. Chasse in any way?
4 A. I believe I saw an officer - - one of the
5 officers, I don't remember which one, get down and say
6 something to him or check on him. I couldn't tell
7 what he was saying. He kind of got down to get a
8 closer look at him.
9 Q. Okay. So he was hunched over?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. Is there anything about that officer that
12 you remember today that would help us identify who
13 that person was?
14 A. NO.
15 Q. Okay. So do the EMTs ultimately stop
16 working on Mr. Chasse or stop testing him?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Is that the next thing that happens?
19 A. Yes.
2o Q. Is there anything we've missed up to this
21 point?
A. No.
Q. Okay, all right.
A. I saw her put the machine away.
Q. And when she puts the machine away, did you

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33
1 see her do anything with the machine?
2 A. She just picked it up and walked away and I
3 didn't see the machine - - I think she might have put
4 it back in the ambulance, but at that point I wasn't
5 paying attention.
6 Q. All right. So she leaves the scene. And
7 you sort of stop focusing on her and look at other
things at that time?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. And what are you looking at at that time?
A. Looking at - - at that point in time I'm just
looking - - I think I walked back into the salon for
another minute --
Q. Okay.
A. - - just 'cause I'm supposed to be working.
Q. All right. Checking in with the boss?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. Is there a manager at that place?
A. She is our sort of like - - she wasn't there
that - - no, there wasn't.
Q. Okay. So you just sort of check in?
A. Yeah.
Q. And then do you come back out again?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. How long do you think you were inside the

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34
building before you came out?
A. Less than ten seconds.
Q. Okay. You were just in and out --
A. Yeah, yeah.
A. Like I said, I'm moving around a little bit
to get different vantage points. And when that was
wrapped up I walked - - when she put the machine away I
was kind of walking back into the shop.
Q. Okay.
A. I can play this out in my mind.
Q. Okay. Are you kind of curious about what's
going on?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you shocked about what you're seeing?
A. Very much --
Q. Okay.
A. -- yeah.
Q. And what is it that you're shocked about?
A. That it's going on in the first place.
Q. Okay.
A. Because you don't see that every day in that
area of town.
Q. No.
Had you seen a similar incident to this in

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
35
your life?
A. Never.
Q. All right. So you pop in just for a few
seconds?
A. Yeah.
Q. You come back out. What's the next thing
that you observe?
A. I do see them put him in the car --
Q. Okay.
A. - - and drive away. Ad then it just ends
like - - and I see the lady with a bucket of water
pouring the water on the blood.
Q. Okay. Let's kind of just back up a little
bit.
A. I1msorry.
Q. We will get to that.
That's okay.
So did you see Mr. Chasse either standing up
or being lifted up off the ground?
A. Being lifted up.
Q. And who did that?
A. The officers.
Q. All right. Do you know how many officers
did that?
A. I think two.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
36
Q. Okay. Did you -- did you actually see them

do it?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall how they picked him up?
A. I couldn't tell how they grabbed. I mean, I
can't remember how they grabbed him.
Q. All right. And they carried him with his
entire body off the ground; is that right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And did you see where they took him
to?
A. In the back of the car.
Q. Okay. Did you see - -
A. The police car.
Q. Could you see the car that they actually put
him in from your vantage point?
A. Yes.
Q. And where was that car?
A. It was parked on the corner near where the
incident was happening.
Q. So - -
A. It was within probably - - maybe around the
corner, maybe on the corner, but within 20 feet from
where they were.
Q. So it would have been very close to the - -

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
37
A. Yeah.
Q. - - intersection of 13th - -
A. Yes.
Q. -- and Everett; is that right?
A. Very close, yes.
Q. And would it be west of the intersection?
A. I can't remember.
Q. All right. Did you, I mean, actually see
him being placed in the car itself?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you describe, as the officers are
approaching the - - forgive me if I've asked this. How
many officers were carrying him?
A. I think two.
Q. Two.
And as the two officers are carrying
Mr. Chasse and they come to the car, how did
Mr. Chasse get into the vehicle itself?
A. I think they - - I think I remember them
placing him in.
Q. Okay. Did someone open the door, is the
door open? Do you remember any of that?
A. I think the door was open, yeah.
Q. Okay. And did they place him in what part
of the car?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
38
A. In the back.
Q. In the back seat?

A. Yes.
Q. Anything unusual about how that happened?

A. Hm-m.
Q- Okay. Did you see them then step back away

from the car, the officers?
A. I don't remember seeing that.
Q. Okay. Do you remember seeing the door
closing?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So I mean, typically the way I would
think of that happening was someone would stand back
and take the door and close the back door.
A. Okay.
Q. Is that kind of what happened?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Anything unusual - -
A. That had to have happened. They can't close
the door on themselves.
Q. Do you actually remember that?
A. I do remember that. It's just like there's
certain things how I played it out in my mind is a
little - -
Q. All right. Was there anything unusual about

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
39
1 the way he was either placed in the car or the way the
2 door was closed that you recall?
3 A. No.
4 Q. All right. Once he's in the back of the
5 car, what's the next thing that happens?
6 A. Everybody just disappeared.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. They just drove away.
9 Q. So what I think you mean by that is - and
10 tell me if I'm wrong - the police officers got back in
11 their car and they drove off - -
12 A. Right.
13 Q. - - is that right?
14 And the EMT people, they got in their
15 vehicles and they left?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. All right. But you also mentioned something
18 about a woman and a bucket that's in between there,
19 and I want to go back and cover that.
2o A. Yes.
21 Q. Can you tell me about that?
22 A. After the police were gone - -
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. - - she came back and poured blood on the --
25 with -- I think it looked like soapy water.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
40
1 Q. Okay. Was there more than one woman that
2 you saw who was an EMT or a police officer?
A. Not that I can remember.
Q. All right. So the woman took the soapy
5 water and a bucket and dumped it on the ground?
6 A. Right.
7 Q. Did she then get back in her vehicle and
8 1eave?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Were they all gone at that point?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did you make any further investigation like
13 going out into the street, looking what happened,
14 anything like that?
15 A. NO.
16 Q. Did you go back to work then?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. As everyone is - - the police officers are
19 leaving, the medics are leaving, is there any
2o conversation that you can hear about what either the
21 police officers are saying or the medics are saying?
22 A. Absolutely not.
23 Q. And when Mr. Chasse is being carried to the
24 car, remind me if you've told me, where were you on
25 the raised platform?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
41
1 A. At that point I was between Blue Hour and
2 Wieden + Kennedy building.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. There's that little area right there.
5 Q. How - - how big an area? I've been there but
I perhaps can't remember. How big an area is that?
A. That whole area?
Q. Yeah.
A. It's about a block long.
Q. Okay. And are you mid block at that point?
A. Closer to where Chasse was. I was about - -
from - - I'm trying to remember the street. I was more
by Blue Hour, but I was kind of at the very end of the
business towards my shop.
Q. Okay.
A. So there's like my - - my - - there's Dress
Code - - there's my business, Dress Code, the Wieden +
Kennedy building, and there's Blue Hour.
Q. Okay.
A. I was between Blue Hour and Wieden + Kennedy
building.
Q. All right. Is there anything during this
time when you're observing that's in your way, either
a car that's in your way or too tall of a person
that's in your way - -
Schmitt & Lehmam, Inc.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
42
A. No.
Q. - - or did you have a clear view during this
time?
A. Yeah, clear view.
Q. All right. So as everyone's leaving you
don't hear the police officers saying anything; is
that right?
A. Right.
Q. And you don't hear the EMTs saying anything?
A. Right.
Q. Is there anyone else telling you anything
you didn't know?
A. Yes.
Q. And what are people telling you at that time
that you - - you did not, you know, witness or see?
A. My friend Luis told me that an officer said
to him that he was a known drug dealer or - -
Q. Okay. And who is Luis?
A. Not Luis, I'm sorry, Jamie.
Q. Jamie?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. And who is Jamie?
A. He's one of the guys that works at Blue
Hour.
Q. Is this Jamie Marquez?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
43
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Before this incident, did you know
Mr. Marquez?
A. Not closely, no. I mean, I bumped into him
and was friendly with him when I saw him on the
street, but I didn't know him that well.
Q. Is this someone that just happens to work in
the general vicinity?
A. Right.
Q. You're not social friends with him?
A. I'm friends with him now.
Q. You're friends with him now?
A. Yeah.
Q. At that time, you were just people working
in the same basic geographic vicinity?
A. Yes.
Q. And have you become social friends with him
since then?
A. Yes.
Q. Does that have something to do with this
incident?
A. Yeah.
Q. And how did that come about?
A. We're both musicians and we talked about
that.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
44
1 Q. Okay. What kind of - - do you play
2 instruments or you're a vocalist or what?
3 A. Yeah, both.
4 Q. Both?
5 A. M-hm.
6 Q. Is there some kind of music you play?
7 A. Electronic music.
8 Q. And how about Mr. Marquez? Music's a pretty
9 broad field. Is there some sort of subset of music
10 that he's involved in?
11 A. He's more of a DJ.
12 Q. Okay. Do you work together?
13 A. No.
14 Q. All right. So Mr. Marquez talked to you
15 that evening. Did he say anything else to you?
16 A. That was it. I mean, we were like - - we
17 were both exchanging like this is unbelievable that
18 this is happening in the Pearl District.
19 Q. M-hm.
20 A. We were pretty surprised.
21 Q. At - - at this point in time - - I should
22 actually say, as you're observing you're talking it
23 was sort of a shocking experience; is that right?
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. Sometimes when we're involved with something

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
45
1 there's an excitement factor that happens to us just
2 from what we're observing.
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. Do you agree with that?
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. Was that sort of the state you were in?
7 A. No, I wasn't excited. I was more worried
8 Q. Worried. And tell me what you were worried
9 about.
10 A. Just about that guy
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. Yeah, James.
Q. And can you tell me what you were worried
about?
A. Well, it came - - 'cause when he was passed
out the reason why I was moving around and trying to
get a vantage point, I thought he was dead at that
point - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - because I wasn't getting - - I was trying
to see the monitor.

Q. Okay.
A. And I just wasn't seeing him breathing and
at that point I thought he was dead.
Q. And that's 'cause he was still?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
46
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. All right.
A. And so I guess I was a little excited when
he woke up 'cause I was relieved that he didn't die,
but I was still kind of worried about him.
Q. Sure, yeah.
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. So you'd seen him be very
still - -
A. Yeah.
Q. -- and come to life, he's handcuffed and
he's taken away in a police car?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that what you're upset about?
A. NO.
Q. Okay. Are you upset just 'cause a human
being had been through something - -
A. Yeah.
Q. - - and obviously had had something physical
happen to them?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. All right.
A. I mean, that's not a fun thing to see.
Q. Of course not.
When you were standing there at that point

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
47
1 in time, did you see something that you thought a
2 police officer acted improperly?
3 A. I couldn't be a judgment on that. I mean - -
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. -- I don't know if I can be - - if I can
6 really judge that. The only thing that I thought was
7 awkward was that they were just standing around
8 looking at him.
9 Q. All right.
10 A. It just felt awkward.
11 Q. Sure.
12 Did Mr. Marquez say anything else to you
13 about what he claimed a police officer said to him?
14 A. That's all I remember him saying.
15 Q. I may have asked you this, and if I have you
16 can tell me. You observed some blood directly beneath
17 Mr. Chassers face on the ground; is that right?
18 A. Right.
19 Q. Could you see any other injuries on him?
20 A. NO.
21 Q. When you observed Mr. Chasse on the ground,
22 could -- did you ever get a direct look at his face or
23 was it always from a profile view?
24 A. When he lifted his head up the first time
25 when he was yelling.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
48
Q. This is when he stopped being still and - -
A. Right.
Q. - - became animated?
A. M-hm.
Q. And you looked at his face?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember anything about his face at
that time?
A. He was very upset.
Q. Okay. Any - - anything else about his
coloration or injuries, anything like that?
A. Nothing that stood out other than the fact
that he was really upset.
Q. Sure.
I've tried to go through this sort of
chronologically to make it easy for - -
A. Yeah.
Q. -- both of us as we're doing it. Is there
anything I've not talked to you about today that you
think's of significance that you observed?
A. Not that I can recall.
Q. Thank you, Mr. Lillegaard. That's all the
questions I have now. Maybe some of the other lawyers
will want to ask you something.
A. Thank you.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
49
1 MS. DUNAWAY: Could you mark that.

2 (DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 302 was marked for
3 identification.)
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MS. DUNAWAY:
6 Q. You want to take a look at that.
7 I'm Susan Dunaway. I'm with the county.
8 A. Okay.
9 Q. Can you take a look at that and see if you
10 kind of generally recognize what that diagram, the
11 'intersection that it represents?
12 A. Okay, gotcha. M-hm, yes.
13 Q. Okay. On that diagram can you first mark
14 where you were when you first saw Mr. Chasse?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And mark it with a 1.
17 A. With a l?
18 Q. M-hm.
19 A. Let me make sure I have the right - -
2o Q. Yes.
21 MR. RICE: Is that green ink?
22 THE WITNESS: Yes.
23 MR. RICE: Green ink may not show up on a
24 xerox machine. Can we use a different color?
MS. DUNAWAY: Yeah.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
50
1 MR. RICE: You can use one of those pens.

2 Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) So to give you a point of
3 reference, at the very bottom, that's the Blue Hour.
4 A. Right, right.
5 Q. Right, see that.
6 Okay.
7 A. Blue Hour. I -- these are the tables. I
8 was kind of -- when I first saw him I was back.
9 Q. Farther?
10 A. Further back.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. More towards Rudy's Barbershop, or like
13 actually there's a clothing store and at the time it
14 was like a museum/real estate office, museum slash
15 real estate office, so I was more coming up the stairs
16 from that side from that vantage point. That's when I
first saw him.
Q. From that side you have to go upstairs to be
up at the Blue Hour?
A. M-hm.
Q. Okay. And that's where you were when you
first saw Mr. Chasse?
A. Right.
Q. Were you on the street level or on the
25 stairs?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
51
1 A. I was on the stairs.
2 Q. On the stairs of - -
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. Why don't you put a 1 with an arrow pointing
5 back in the direction that you were actually standing.
6 A. All right.
7 Q. Then could you put a No. 2 on where you were
at that point when you thought -- you first had the
thought that Mr. Chasse was unconscious.
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And then just at the very end of your
testimony when Mr. Rice was asking you questions you
were talking about when Mr. Chasse reanimated, when he
became conscious again.
A. M-hm.
Q. Could you put a No. 3 on where you were?
A. I'm trying to think.
(Witness complied.)
Q. Okay. Now, could you draw, as kind of like
a stick figure, where Mr. Chasse was lying. So, you
know, if you could do it with like his head and - -
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. - - something like that.
A. I'm not a very good artist.
Q. Neither am I.
Schrnitt & Lehmann, Inc.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
52
1 A. I believe it was right there.
2 Q. Okay. And could you put little circles
3 where you were seeing police officers standing?
4 A. I'm going to change this. It was closer to
5 there, I'm sorry. And I saw kind of that thing. I'm
6 not sure how many people were there.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. I didn't count.
9 Q. All right. Thank you.
10 A. You're welcome.
11 Q. When Mr. Rice was asking you questions, you
12 said you were interviewed by a number of newspapers?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did you happen to keep any of those
15 articles?
16 A. I - - my girlfriend did. No, I didn't.
17 Q. You didn't?
18 A. NO.
19 Q. You do not have them?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Okay. Did you read those articles?
22 A. I skimmed through them.
23 Q. Okay. And since you skimmed through those
24 articles that specifically mentioned you, have you
25 read anything in any publication or on the Internet in

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
53
1 regard to Mr. Chasse?

2 A. I - - repeat your question, I'm sorry.
Q. Since you skimmed the articles that

specifically mentioned you - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - have you read any articles in any
publications or on the Internet - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - in regard to Mr. Chasse?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. What have you read?
A. I've - - like I said, I didn't read full
articles on the line, but I've looked up Chasse. I
looked up the web site of the people doing the
documentary and talking about his life before he was
dead, before he died --
Q. Okay.
A. -- SO --
Q. Did you read any articles about this
particular case?
A. Not thoroughly, no. I just skimmed the
articles that I was in and I've seen a couple of - - I
saw it on the news a couple of times, but I never
really thoroughly read any one article.
Q. Okay. And I believe at some point there

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
54
1 were p o l i c e r e p o r t s t h a t were posted on t h e I n t e r n e t .
2 Did you r e a d - -
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. - - any of t h e p o l i c e r e p o r t s ?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. Do you remember which p o l i c e r e p o r t s
7 you read?
8 A. Not e x a c t l y . I googled my name. Like i f
9 you Google my name James Chasse comes up.
10 Q. H-m-m.
11 A. And t h a t ' s how I found o u t .
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. Yeah.
14 And I have r e a d t h a t . I have r e a d t h e
15 p o l i c e r e p o r t from t h a t p o i n t .
16 Q. So you read t h e p o l i c e r e p o r t ?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. And d i d you have a chance t o review
19 t h e p o l i c e r e p o r t p r i o r t o coming h e r e ?
20 A. J u s t from t h e on l i n e .
21 Q. On l i n e .
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. And d i d you read any of t h e o t h e r p o l i c e
24 reports?
25 A. No.

( 3 6 0 ) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
55
1 Q. When Mr. Rice was asking you questions you
2 said that Jamie Marquez said that the police had told
3 him something about Mr. Chasse being a drug dealer.
4 A. Right.
5 Q. Okay. Was there anything else that, while
6 you're standing there, Jamie told you about what had
7 happened?
8 A. NO.
9 Q. Have you talked with Jamie Marquez since the
10 incident about what he saw?
11 A. Very briefly. He called me recently about
12 the documentary being filmed and said -- so I didn't
13 actually talk to him about that incident. I did talk
14 to him about the -- I'm sorry, about the documentary
15 being filmed.
16 Q. So did you talk to him before you went to be
17 interviewed by the people doing the documentary?
18 A. Yes. But about the documentary.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. So it wasn't specifically about James
21 Chasse. It was just about the documentary.
22 Q. All right. I just wanted to make sure I
23 understand your testimony. When you saw Mr. Chasse
24 you came to the conclusion that he was unconscious
25 because he was lying still and his eyes were closed --

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
56
A. Yes.
Q. - - is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Was there any other thing that you
observed at the time that led you to believe that he
was unconscious?
A. No, other than he wasn't moving.
Q. He wasn't moving at -- he was lying still
and - -
A. I couldn't see him breathing.
Q. You could not see him breathing?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. What were you looking for that led
you to believe that he was not breathing?
A. I was looking at - - to see if his chest was
moving, to see if his stomach was moving.
Q. Okay.
A. Like very closely at that point. I was kind
of -- like I said, I was moving around, getting
different vantage points trying to see if there was
any sign of breathing.
Q. Okay. And from your vantage point, you did
not see his -- he was lying on his stomach at the
time; is that correct?
A. Right.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
57
Q. So what you're saying - -

A. And his chest was sort of forward. You know
what I mean? Like --
Q. NO.
A. - - with his face sort of forward. His chest
was also diagonal. He wasn't like on his stomach,
'cause his - - the way he was tied was kind of awkward.
You know what I'm saying? So I saw kind of like part
of his chest.
Q. Okay. So he was not laying on his chest?
A. Kind of diagonally. Diagonally like one --
this part of his chest was on the ground, the other

part wasn't .
Q. So was he at a 45-degree angle?
A. Kind of, yeah.
Q. So from where you were standing, you were
actually -- then you were actually looking at his
chest?
A. Yes.
Q. You testified that all of a sudden he became
reanimated - -
A. M-hm.
Q. -- and then he started yelling; is that
right?
A. Yes.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
58
1 Q. When did you find out that Mr. Chasse had
2 died?
3 A. That evening.
4 Q. How? How did you find out?
5 A. On the news.
6 Q. On the news?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. When you saw that on the news, were you
9 surprised?
10 A. When they said that he - - he died I wasn't
11 sure it was him at first because I didn't connect the
12 two right away. But then it like all of a sudden hit
13 me so - - I'm sorry, repeat your question. I'm sorry.
14 Q. Oh, okay. Well, you testified that at some
15 point while you're watching this you actually thought
16 maybe he was dead; right?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. And then you were surprised that - -
19 A. M-hm.
20 Q. - - he wasn't dead?
21 A. Right.
22 Q. And so later on that evening you're watching
23 the news and then you find out he had died?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Were you surprised when you found out that

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
David E. Lillegaard, 7 / 1 7 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v . Humphreys, et al.
59
1 he died later in the evening?

2 A. Yes. Among other things, but yes, I was
3 very surprised.
4 Q. Okay. While you were moving about along the
5 patio of the Blue Hour and trying to get a better
6 perspective, did you have any conversation with
7 anybody who was there?
A. While I was moving about? I did go up to
Jamie, I was like what's going on? And he was kind of
working that day, too, so we couldn't really talk.
He's like I don't know, man. And then it -- so not
while I was moving around. I didn't have like a long
conversation. I was just sort of what's going on,
this is crazy. And there was no real long exchange
regarding it.
Q. Okay. And none of the customers, you didn't
talk to --
A. No.
Q. - - any of the customers?
A. Hm-m.
Q. Did you hear any of the conversations that
were going on around you?
A. NO.
Q. Had you ever seen anybody restrained that

way before?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
60
1 A. Yeah. I don't remember when, though. But I
2 have seen that done before. I don't - - I think it was
3 maybe on the news before.
4 Q. M-hm.
5 A. And I've seen people get arrested downtown,
6 you know, quite regularly, but very - - not very often
7 like that, not to that extent.
8 Q. Like what? Not very often like --
9 A. I see drug busts once in a while --

10 Q. M-hm.
11 A. --and--
12 Q. But not like that where - -
13 A. Not where they're restrained and laying down
14 like that.
15 Q. Okay. Now, you testified that you saw the
16 police officers carrying Mr. Chasse up to the car --
17 A. M-hm.
18 Q. -- and that you thought that there were
19 maybe two?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. So is it possible that there were more than
22 two?
23 A. Yes, it could have been two or three.
24 Q. Okay. So you just -- you're really not
25 sure?

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
61
1 A. I'm not 100 percent. I do remember seeing

2 him being carried. I just - - you know, it was kind of
3 like confusing so I can't remember whether it was two
4 or three. But it is possible that it was two.
5 Q. Okay. At least two, and maybe more?
6 A. Right.
Q. Okay. Then you saw Mr. Chasse being put
into the back of the car?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you see what position Mr. Chasse was
in once he was in the car?
A. Not after they closed the door. I think - -
so no, my answer is no, I didn't see him after they
put him in the car.
Q. Had you ever seen Mr. Chasse before?
A. I've seen him walk by a few times before,
yeah. I recognized his face from the news and from
pictures, but I've never met him, but he's someone - -
Q. But you've seen him in the neighborhood?
A. I've seen him in the neighborhood. I
recognized him.
Q. You'd never spoken with him, though - -
A. No.
Q. -- or interacted with him?
A. No.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
62
1 Q. And do you know anybody who did know
2 Mr. Chasse?
3 A. Vaguely. A friend of mine who works at a
4 bar says he knew him. This friend of mine was a
5 musician from the '70s and '80s in Portland and he
6 knew him just for a little while, just briefly. And
7 his name was Carl. But he didn't - - he doesn't know
8 much about him. He just knew that he was a public - -
9 like he wrote for Zions.
10 Q. And do you know where - - what Carl's last
name is?
A. No, I don't, I'm sorry.
Q. Do you know where he works?
A. Yes. He works at Kelly's Olympian.
Q. What was your general impression of
Mr. Chasse when you would see him walking around the
neighborhood?
A. I didn't really have one.
Q. Not - - you didn't have - - hadn't formed
any - -
A. NO.
Q. - - impression?
A. Well, my -- kind of a hippy. He looked like
a hippy to me.
Q. Okay. When you saw him walking around the

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
63
1 neighborhood having testified that you do have a
2 personal experience with people who have serious
3 mental illnesses, did it ever cross your mind that
4 this man looks like he probably has a mental illness?
5 A. No, not from what I've seen. I mean, I've
6 had no conversations with him. I've just seen him
7 walk by, so - -
8 Q. That's all I have. Thank you.
9 A. All right.
10 EXAMINATION
11 BY MS. BACK:
12 Q. Hi.
13 A. Hi.
14 Q. We met out there. My name is Jean Back, and
15 I represent the ambulance company and the paramedics.
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. And so I'm more interested in what your
18 observations were of those folks and what they were
19 doing.
2o A. Okay.
21 Q. And one of the things I wanted to know is
22 whether you remember when the paramedics unit drove up
23 to the scene.
24 A. Do I remember them doing that?
25 Q. (Nods head. )

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
64
1 A. I don't remember them driving -- I didn't

2 see them drive up.
3 Q. So your - - you saw them when they were
4 already at the scene?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. And then what do you remember -- do
7 you remember what uniforms the paramedics were
wearing?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember -- I mean, you may have been
asked this, and so I do apologize if you have, but do
you remember folks that were standing around
Mr. Chasse that day having - - wearing different types
of clothes, types of uniforms?
A. There were different uniforms, but I - - I
couldn't tell - - I don't really know about that
business. I couldn't tell whether they were a private
company or not.
Q. Could you tell at all the difference between
the fire department people and the paramedic people --
A. NO.
Q. - - the ambulance people?

Did some -- and so do you know how -- not
knowing what the difference is between these people,
do you know how many people were there that were

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
65
the -- with the ambulance company?

A. Not exactly.
Q. Do you recall whether they were wearing --
whether anyone, the lady that was treating him, was

wearing any gloves?
A. No, I don't remember that.
Q. You do recall that she had a machine hooked
up and - -
A. Yeah.
Q. - - was looking at this machine?
A. M-hm.
Q. And do you recall whether she ever - - have
you ever had your pulse taken before where someone
puts a cuff around your arm and they blow it up and
then listen to your pulse?
A. Yeah, I don't - - honestly I don't remember
seeing that on his arm. I do know he was hooked up to
a monitor, but I don't know how.
Q. Do you know where - - you don't remember
where the lead to the monitor - -
A. No, I don't.
Q. - - came from?
So it could have been hooked up on a cuff on
his arm, but you don't - -
A. Right. I don't remember. Actually from my

(360) 695-5554 ** ( 5 0 3 ) 223-4040
66
vantage point I - - I don't know. I mean, I'm sorry - -

I mean, I don't know.
Q. That's okay. You can only testify about
what you can remember.
A. Yeah.
Q. And we're not interested in guesses and --
A. Right, right.
Q. So we do appreciate you coming here today
and helping us out, so - -
Do you recall whether - - what his - - the
color of Mr. Chasse's skin looked like when you were
looking at him?
A. He looked pretty pale.
Q. Looked pretty pale?
A. Yeah.
Q. Was there a difference in - - when you think
that he was unconscious during the period of time - -
how long was that, do you think, that he - - he was
unconscious?
A. It couldn't have been more than 15 minutes
of -- from when I saw him to when he woke up. I think
it was about ten minutes, but I'm just guessing.
Q. And how much of that 15 minutes or ten
minutes do you think he wasn't breathing?
A. I don't know.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
67
Q. How - - how - - what - - when you said that you

were looking at his -- you could -- you were looking
to see whether his chest was expanding with air and to
see whether he was breathing, can you tell us what
period of time you think that, by your observations,
he -- he wasn't breathing?
A. I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
Q. I'm sorry, it might have been a confusing
question. I think that you previously testified that
you had looked - - you didn't think he was breathing
because you had looked at his chest or his stomach
and --
A. Right.
Q. - - and it didn't appear that he was
breathing. My question is: How long a period of time
did you spend looking at his chest and stomach and --
and that you didn't think he was breathing, what was

the time period?
A. Long enough to be worried. Probably
about - - no more than ten minutes.
Q. Okay. So you thought that - -
A. I don't know exactly, but no more than ten
minutes.
Q. Okay. And so you thought that perhaps he
wasn't breathing for a period of time of ten minutes?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay.
A. No more than that.
Q. And did you see Mr. Chasse before -- before
the paramedics were there?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So, again, you saw - -
A. I mean before - -
Q. Before the ambulance was there.
A. I didn't see him until after he was passed
out.
Q. Okay. And after the female paramedic was
there?
A. Right.
Q. You didn't see the female paramedic come
onto the scene?
A. No.
Q. Did you see that machine that he was hooked
up to, was that in a black bag?
A. I - - when I saw it, it looked like a big
monitor. I didn't see a bag that it was in.
Q. Okay.
A. I couldn't tell.
Q. Did you see a backpack that may have
belonged to Mr. Chasse anywhere on the scene?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
A. No.
Q. Okay. And when you saw that Mr. Chasse
started moving again - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - do you remember at all whether anybody
had done any sort of medical test on him just prior to
him starting to move again?
A. No.
Q. Did you see anyone poke him or try and get
some blood for any tests?
A. No.
Q. Do you have any information about what
the - - the medics or the paramedics might have seen
before they got to the - - whether they had any
information about what occurred before they got to the
scene?
A. I'm sorry, could you repeat?
Q. Do you know, do you have any information
about what the paramedics -- whether they knew about
what happened before they got to the scene?
A. I don't.
Q. Did you - - since you were able to see when
he wasn't - - when you think he wasn't breathing, were
you able to then see the rise and fall of his chest
after he reanimated?

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
70
A. Yes.
Q. Were you able to count his respirations at
any point in time?
A. No, no.
Q. And you didn't hear any conversations
between any of the officers or the paramedics?
A. No.
Q. Did you observe whether Mr. Chasse was
favoring any body part?
A. I - - (shakes head.)
Q. Did he appear to act like any part of his
body was in pain?
A. I couldn't tell.
Q. Was he moaning at all?
A. He was making garbled sounds.
Q. Okay. And do you remember, as you sit here
today, whether he said any words?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Did you remember, when you talked to
the police, whether you told them, just initially
after this accident, whether he said any actual words?
Do you remember him saying anything?
A. And I'm only acting - - when I - - I couldn't
hear any words.
Q. Okay.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
71
A. He was interacting with the police, but I

couldn't hear any words from my point.
Q. The person who you saw wash the blood with
the soapy water off the street, was that the same
person that you saw was checking the monitor when - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - he was hooked up to a monitor?
And what - - can you tell me what that

person, what color hair the person who was washing the
blood off the street had?
A. I think she had kind of shoulder length
blond hair.
Q. And you don't remember what she was wearing?
A. I believe she was wearing a white shirt,
from what I remember.
(2. Okay.
A. Maybe a white shirt.
Q. Okay. I don't think I have any more
questions. I really appreciate you coming here and
helping us out.
A. You're welcome.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. STEENSON:
Q. It looks like, from this police report, that
Detective Courtney with the Portland Police Bureau

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
72
interviewed you four or five days after Chasse died.

Is that about right?
A. That sounds right, yeah.
Q. He reports that you told him that you saw an
officer nudge subject - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - with his foot on his shoulder or side.
A. M-hm.
Q. Was that during the time when you thought
Mr. Chasse might be dead?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember whether the officer was
wearing a blue uniform or a green uniform?
A. It was a Portland Police officer.
Q. Okay. Do you remember whether he had a
baseball cap on or not?
A. No.
Q. Did that officer or any other officers do
the same sort of nudging with his foot or any other
officer's foot, more than one?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. According to this report, you told the
detective that when Mr. Chasse came to or whatever
happened and he woke up and started yelling or
screaming, that he said something to the effect, it's

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
73
1 quoted here, let me up, end quote.

2 A. Okay.
3 Q. Is that possibly something you heard or can
4 you recall?
5 A. I don't recall. I - -
6 Q. Okay.
A. It is possible.
Q. Okay.
A. But it was garbled.
Q. All right. Could it have been help me or
don't beat me, do you know?
A. To be honest with you, it could have been
something that at that point I thought he might have
said, but I don't remember clearly - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - exactly the words.
Q. When you got a chance to see Mr. Chassers
face when he turned up and started screaming and
whatever he was saying that was garbled, you said he
was - - he looked to be upset. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. In your opinion, did he look to be scared at
that time?
A. No. I think he was confused and upset.
Q. Okay.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
A. Like disoriented.
Q. When you saw Mr. Chasse walking around, was
it always in the Pearl District?
A. NO.
Q. Where else?
A. No. I mean, I remember him being from
Portland. I used to lived in Old Town.
Q. Okay.
A. And I've seen him walk by Old Town - -
Q. All right.
A. - - a few times. Not many times, just a few
times.
Q. Sure.
Any -- anyplace else in Portland you ever
saw him walk?
A. I think I saw him by the library once.
Q. Up on Tenth?
A. Yeah.
Q. Did you ever see him causing any problems;
screaming, getting in fights, causing any - - any
issues?
A. No.
Q. Was he always alone?
A. Yeah.
Q. And by - - when you say he looked like a

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
75
hippy, do you mean like long hair?
A. Long hair, beard, yeah.
Q. Other than what Mr. Marquez told you that an
officer had said about Mr. Chasse being a known drug
dealer, did anyone else say anything else that night
about drugs related to anything and Mr. Chasse?
A. No.
Q. That's all I have. Thank you.
FURTHER EXAMINATION
BY MR. RICE:
Q. Mr. Lillegaard, just a follow-up.
Mr. Steenson asked you about a nudge by the
officer .
A. M-hm.
Q. Was this some sort of an assaultive kick or
more of a - -
A. No.
Q. - - atap?
A. It was a tap.
Q. That's all I have. Thank you.
A. All right.
Q. Thank you for coming in here.
MS. DUNAWAY: Thank you.
(The deposition concluded at 3 : 0 5 PM.)

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
76
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2 STATE OF WASHINGTON )
) ss.
3 COUNTY OF CLARK )
4 I, Shannon K. Krska, a Certified Shorthand

5 Reporter for Oregon, do hereby certify that, pursuant
6 to stipulation of counsel for the respective parties
7 hereinbefore set forth, DAVID E. LILLEGAARD personally
8 appeared before me at the time and place set forth in
9 the caption hereof; that at said time and place I
10 reported in Stenotype all testimony adduced and other
11 oral proceedings had in the foregoing matter; that
12 thereafter my notes were reduced to typewriting under
13 my direction; and that the foregoing transcript, pages
14 3 to 75, both inclusive, constitutes a full, true and
15 accurate record of all such testimony adduced and oral
16 proceedings had, and of the whole thereof
17 Witness my hand and CSR stamp at Vancouver,
18 Washington, this 1st day of August, 2008.
19
20
21 Shannon K. Krska
Certified Shorthand Reporter

Oregon CSR No. 90-0216

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON

and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE 1

For the Defendants MR. JAMES RICE

For the Defendant MS. JEAN BACK

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

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1 when this matter goes to trial, but if it is, we

13 Q. Okay. Thank you.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

A. Milwaukie High School.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

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Schrnitt & Lehrnann, Inc.

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12 A. Yeah, I'm going to try to do it

23 wrong. It might be another -- it might have been

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about this incident?

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Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

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1 Q. I would actually rather have you not guess.

24 A. The answer is yes.

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of people standing around him.

A. Like I like saw his profile.

A. And he was passed out.

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Q. Okay. We'll get to his condition later.

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A. It was right underneath his face, like he

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A. - - but I don't know.

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yelling. It was like garbled.

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1 restrained together from the back.

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Q. Okay. Did you -- did you actually see them

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Q. In the back seat?

Q. Anything unusual about how that happened?

Q- Okay. Did you see them then step back away

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25 with -- I think it looked like soapy water.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.