Stuart Transcript

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON

JAMES P. CHASSE, JR.; JAMES P. )
CHASSE; LINDA GERBER; and MARK )
CHASSE, individually and in his )
capacity as Personal Representative )
of the ESTATE OF JAMES P: CHASSE,
JR.,
V.
Plaintiffs,
)
)
)NO. CV-07-0189-HU
Copy
CHRISTOPHER HUMPHREYS; KYLE NICE; )
CITY OF PORTLAND; CITY OF PORTLAND )
JOHN DOE FIREFIGHTERS/PARAMEDICS; )
PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU and OTHER )
PORTLAND JOHN and JANE DOE )
OFFICIALS; BRET BURTON; MULTNOMAH )
COUNTY; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and )
JANE DOE DEPUTY SHERIFFS and MEDICAL)
PERSONNEL; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and)
JANE DOE SHERIFF'S OFFICE and OTHER )
OFFICIALS; TRI-COUNTY METROPOLITAN )
TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT OF OREGON; )
and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE )
NORTHWEST, INC., 1
Defendants. )
DEPOSITION OF
RANDALL STUART
Taken in behalf of Defendants
July 14, 2008

1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1600
4 0 0 Columbia, Su~te140
Vancouver, WA 98660
Schrmtt&Lehmann,Inc. 121 SW Morrison St., Suite 850
Portland, OR 97204
C O U R T R E P O R T E R S
j3601 695-5554 15031 223-4040
Fox (3601 695-1737 www sireporting.com ~linc@~westoff~ce.net
Randall Stuart, 7/14/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiffs: MR. THOMAS M. STEENSON
Attorney at Law
815 S.W. Second, Suite 500
Portland, OR 97204
For the Defendants MESSRS . JAMES RICE and

Humphreys, Nice, and DAVID A. LANDRUM
City of Portland: Attorneys at Law
1221 S.W. Fourth, Suite 430
Portland, OR 97204
For the Defendants MS. SUSAN DUNAWAY

Burton and Multnomah Attorney at Law
County : 501 S.E. Hawthorne, Suite 502
Portland, OR 97214
For the Defendant MS. JEAN BACK
AMR : Attorney at Law
1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900
Portland, OR 97204
Also Present: David Anderson
INDEX
EXAMINATION BY: PAGE NO.
Mr. Rice 3 - 84
Ms. Dunaway 84 - 100
Ms. Back 100 - 116
EXHIBITS
No. 301 Diagram of scene
Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

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PORTLAND, OREGON; MONDAY, JULY 14, 2008

10:59 AM
* * *
RANDALL STUART
called as a witness in behalf of the Defendants,
having first been sworn by the Reporter,
testifies as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. RICE:
Q. Good morning, Mr. Stuart.
A. Good morning.
Q. My name's Jim Rice. I'm a deputy city
attorney with Portland. We introduced ourselves to
each other briefly earlier. Is that right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You're here to have your deposition taken
this morning. Have you ever had your deposition taken
before?
A. No.
Q. Has anyone explained to you that it's a
question-and-format opportunity for the lawyers to
speak to a potential witness about a case?
A. Yes.
Q. And what I'm going to do is ask you
questions, as will others probably. And if my

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1 question's not clear to you, would you stop me and I
2 will try and change the wording of the question so it
3 makes sense to you?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. No. 2, to help our court reporter, I need
6 you to give what you're doing now which is a verbal
7 response to the questions. In conversation we might
8 nod our head, but it makes it difficult for her to put
9 down the answer.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Have you - - are you on any medication or
12 have any physical problems, anything, lack of sleep,
13 anything like that, that would make it difficult for
14 you to answer questions today?
15 A. NO.
16 Q. Have you had a chance to talk to a lawyer
17 about what a deposition is?
18 A. yes.
19 Q. Okay. And who was the lawyer that talked to
20 you about that?
21 A. My lawyer in California.
22 Q. Okay. And the last thing is if a witness is
23 asked a question in a deposition, if that person ended
24 up testifying in trial and they changed their answer,
25 a lawyer would have the opportunity to point that out

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1 to the jury or the judge. Do understand that as well?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. So it's important that we communicate
4 well - -
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. - - do you understand that?
7 Would you tell us what your full name is,

8 please?
9 A. Randall Stuart.
10 Q. And would you spell that for the court
11 reporter?
12 A. and Stuart is S-T-U-A-R-T.
R-A-N-D-A-L-L,
13 Q. Have you gone by any other names?
14 A. NO.
15 Q. And what's your date of birth?
16 A.
17 Q. And what's your present address?
18 A.
20 Q. And how tall are you?

21 A. Five two.
22 Q. Okay. And how about your present
23 employment, are you presently employed?
24 A. Free-lance.
25 Q. Okay. And what kind of free-lance work do

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Randall Stuart, 7 / 1 4 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
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you do?
A. I'm a professor of theater so I job in to
universities.
Q. Okay. Are there any universities in the
last year that you've been working with?
A. Yes.
Q. And which universities are those?
A. Southern Oregon University in Ashland,
Oregon.
Q. How about your educational background, did
you graduate high school?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was your education after that?
A. Two further years.
Q. And where did you go to school?
A. San Francisco City College, San Francisco
State University.
Q. And did you have a major when you were
attending those institutions?
A. Yes.
Q. And what were those majors?
A. English.
Q. And what years were those?
A. '78 and then nine.
Q. Okay. And what kind of work have you done

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other than the present work which you're doing which
is working with theater?
A. I've always been a professional theater
artist.
Q. Okay. And do you act with local companies?
A. I'm predominantly a professor of theater,
Shakespeare and the Greeks, and a director of theater
productions.
Q. Okay. Have you had any medical training?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever in the military?
A. No.
Q. Have you had any training in psychology?

A. Yes.
Q. And how did that come about?
A. My training, it would be through education,
studying it at college, and then also in - - in the
field of the arts it's ever present.
Q. Okay. As a person who is in theater - - some
jobs we go to school and sort of get a learning
background and then end up in the employment field,
law would be one of those fields. Other fields are
much more I would call on-the-job training where
you're actually delving into the kind of work that
someone does. Is most of your training in theater
Schrnitt & ~ehmann,Inc.

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1 from actually participating in theater?
2 A. No. It's participating at the American
3 Conservatory Theater from 1974 to '79 in what is now
4 their master's program, so it is what is called an
5 advanced training program. And you'll find them
6 around the country. And they deed MFAs to students
7 who train for three years, comprehensively.
8 Q. And did you go through the program that
9 actually gave you an MFA?
10 A. I went through the program before it was
11 accredited with its MFA status.
12 Q. And did they - - in certain kinds of fields
13 when someone has completed work and later on things
14 get more sort of technical or at least formalized they
15 may issue someone a degree after they've been through
16 a program. Did something like that happen to you?
17 A. Well, there were so many years and years of
18 folks that they did not.
19 Q. Okay. Have you had any involvement with law
20 enforcement?
21 A. Involvement?
22 Q. Yes.
23 For example, sometimes people volunteer to
24 be on community boards. Anything like that?
25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. And could you tell us about that?
2 A. Attended Inner City Oakland Neighborhood
3 Watch meetings which included officers of the law from
4 Oakland.
Q. Okay. How about in Oregon, have you been in
any sort of neighborhood watch, anything like that
here?
A. No, sir.
Q. Okay. Do you have any relatives who are in
law enforcement?
A. Yes.
Q. And could you tell us about that?
A. Second cousins who I spend the holidays with
in the past, and they're on the San Francisco police
force.
Q. How long have you lived in the Portland
area?
A. This would be two and a half years.
Q. And did you come up from California?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you ever been to the Swindells
Apartments in Portland? Do you know what those are?
A. No, sir.
Q. All right. We're here to talk about
Mr. James Chasse and his unfortunate death. Are you

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aware of that?
A. Yes.
Q. Had you met him before the incident where
you -- that you observed?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Have you met with his father or any
relatives of Mr. Chasse?
A. No, not met with them.
Q. Have you given any statements regarding what
you observed the day you saw Mr. Chasse interact with
the police?
A. Yes.
Q. And to whom have you given statements?
A. The police department.
Q. Okay. This is the Portland Police
Department?
A. M-hm.
Q. Anybody else?
A. A single interview on KGW television the
week of the event.
Q. Okay. Any others?
A. A single interview to The Oregonian the - -
two weeks after the event is my guesstimate.
Q. Okay.
A. Would have been within the week of the

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event, I'm not exactly sure.

Q. All right. Any others?
A. No.
Q. Have you had any training or experiences
with individuals with mental illness?
MR. STEENSON: Objection to the extent it
calls for speculation. But go ahead.
THE WITNESS: In the arts we deal with it a
lot, but -- but from an artistic perspective. So
medically, no.
Q. (By Mr. Rice) Okay. And first of all, there
are a wide variety of matters which might fall within
the term mental illness. Do you agree with that?
A. Can you repeat the question?
Q. There are a wide variety of conditions that
might fall within the term mental illness. Do you
agree with that?
A. Yes.
Q. And, for example, someone might be mildly
depressed or someone might be severely depressed. Do
you agree with that?
A. Yes.
Q. And have you dealt with people - - anyone,
either a family member or working with someone, who
you considered to have a severe mental condition?

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A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And can you tell us who that person
was?
A. It seems like private information.
Q. Well, we're here in a question-and-answer
format today and I have the opportunity to ask you
about things. What I'm really trying to get is is
your sort of background and experiences because we're
going to get to what you observed at some point. Do
you understand that?
A. Yes.
Q. So what I'm trying to find out is I'm not
necessarily concerned at this point with the name of
the person - -
A. Ah.
Q. - - but the kind of condition you're dealt - -
what you dealt with or observed.

A. Oh. Severe depression in a family member.
Q. Okay. How about schizophrenia, have you had
any contact that you know of with people who suffer
from schizophrenia?
MR. STEENSON: Objection to the extent it
calls for a medical conclusion.
Q. (By Mr. Rice) You can go ahead and answer
the question.
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A. Yes.
Q. And how did you come into contact with
someone who you thought suffered from schizophrenia?
A. By working with a family whose son suffers
from schizophrenia.
Q. Okay. And when you were working with that
person, was that working within the context of
theater?
A. No. That was in context of my reverandship.
Q. Okay. And do you have a degree in divinity
or other experience in that field?
A. Life-long study of divinity and - - and
certified in spiritual humanism.
Q. Okay. Who would give such a certification?
A. Certifications can be on line.
Q. Okay. Have you studied at any sort of
bricks-and-mortar-type institution, if that's a term
you're familiar with?
A. I'm constantly studying divinity. Sometimes
at bricks and mortar.
Q. Are you working toward a degree in that
field?
A. It'd be nice, but not necessary.
Q. Okay. Is it something that you do or have
done for remuneration, in other words, for money

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1 issues, or is this an interest of yours that's not
2 necessarily economically tied?
3 A. Correct, it is not economically tied.
4 Q. And are you presently studying with any
5 particular institution locally?
6 A. My own divinity study which is nightly.
7 Q. Okay. Within Divinity I think of there as
8 either being denominations or some sort of a
9 categorization maybe is a better word because it's a
10 very broad field. Do you, in your mind, focus on one
11 particular field of theology such as, I'm just going
12 to give you some examples, there are people who might
13 be - - it can be Judaism, it can be Islam, it can be
14 many denominations of Protestantism, Roman
15 Catholicism, Greek Orthodox?
16 A. I've got you. I've done them all. I've
17 often done co-servicing with rabbis, priests,
18 ministers, in weddings, funerals, memorial services,
19 baby-naming ceremonies. I would call myself
20 pantheistic.
21 Q. Okay. In that training then you've had some
22 experience with someone who suffered from
23 schizophrenia?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did you engage in a counseling role with

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them?
A. It was around the issue of a dying family
member so it was part of the landscape of that several
weeks.
Q. Okay. And was the dying person the
individual that suffered from schizophrenia?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Was - - so there was a family member
who was attending that suffered from that condition?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And was that locally or someplace else?
A. East Coast.
Q. East Coast.
And was that something you were involved
with for weeks?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. From what you understood, was that
person on any sort of medication that was prescribed?
A. I was aware that in his past he was on
medication. The question was whether he was at that
point.
Q. Okay. What kind of behavior did you notice
with that person that might lead you to conclude that
that person was in fact afflicted with schizophrenia?
A. Clear emotional ups and downs, some rage

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issues in his case, hearing voices, not tracking or

eating well.
Q. Okay. Did - - did the individual who you
were attending ultimately pass away?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any further contact with that
person who suffered from schizophrenia following that
event ?
A. In - - indirect, and as it is a family - -
this is a friend of the family.
Q. Okay. And does that mean you spoke to him
like on the telephone or corresponded - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - with him?
A. M-hm.
Q. Is that correct?
A. Once, yes.
Q. Just once.
Has that ended actually?
A. The communication thus far, yeah.
Q. Okay. How long ago was that?
A. One and a half years ago.
Q. Okay. Any other contact with an individual
who you believe suffered from schizophrenia or was
that it?

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A. That's it.
Q. Okay. In - - in divinity training, is there
training you've gone through dealing with people who
suffer from mental illness?
A. My training is specifically in thanatology.
Q. And could you tell us what that means?
A. Yes.
Q. Go ahead.
A. The - - the grief counseling in death and
dying situations.
Q. Okay.
A. When someone is on their deathbed in the
last ten days to ten hours, thanatology comes into
play as a way to comfort, think out loud, be prayerful
with a family and the members who are experiencing
that passing.
Q. Okay. With regard to the incident on N.W.
23rd and Everett with Mr. Chasse, you know what I'm
talking about, don't you?
A. Yeah.
MR. STEENSON: 13th actually.
MR. RICE: 13th, excuse me.
Q. (By Mr. Rice) Did you review any documents
prior to coming here today for the deposition?
A. Yes.

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Q. And what documents did you review?
A. My original typed version to - - of complaint
to the police.
Q. Okay.
A. It's a four-page document. The - - how do
you say the iteration or the - - the telephone
interview that is then --
Q. Transcribed.
A. Transcribed, thank you.
Q. Sure.
A. The transcription of the interview with Lynn
Courtney --
Q. All right.
A. - - which was a few days after the event, a
summation of - - Lynn Courtney's summation of that

transcription.
Q. All right. Anything else?
A. I also have a copy of the - - my initial
complaint to the police but in a -- in the form that
one would pull it off the web.
Q. Okay.
A. Same words, just different typing.
Q. And where on the web do you know you got
that?
A. Well, these were supplied to - - these were
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supplied to me so that I could review them.
Q. Okay. Who gave you those?
A. Mr. Steensonls office - -
Q. All right.
A. - - provided these witness documents for me.
Q. And you brought those subject to the
subpoena; is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Could - - would you pass those over to me and
let me look at those for just a moment?
A. Sure. I donut know if you need that top
part.
Q. All right. 1'11 give you most of these
back. I'll give you one other document in a second.
MS. BACK: Can I see those? Sorry.
THE WITNESS: These ones?
MS. BACK: Yes. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Q. (By Mr. Rice) Prior of coming in here today,
have you gone back to N.W. 13th and Everett to look at
the scene?
A. No.
Q. Is that a part of town you transverse
periodically?
A. Well, periodically, yes.
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1 Q. Okay. Did you testify before the grand jury
2 in this case?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you know in what order of grand jury
5 witnesses you were?
6 A. My memory says I was first.
7 Q, Okay. Have you given - - beyond the
8 statement to Detective Courtney which you talked about
9 which was then transcribed off an audio cassette or - -
10 audio somehow, have you given any other audio
11 statements?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Any video statements?
14 A. NO.
15 Q. Have you been asked to do either one of
16 those beyond what Officer Courtney asked you for?
17 A. NO.
18 Q. The day this happened I believe was a
19 Sunday. Does that recollect with you?
20 A. That's correct.
21 Q. Prior to observing what you saw at that
22 intersection, do you recall what your day was like?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. Could you tell me about that?
25 A. I attended a theatrical matinee at Artists
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Repertory Theater, 15th and Morrison, and traveled
with my companion during the dinner break between two
shows to the Pearl District.
Q. Was this the Upstairs-Downstairs?
A. M-hm.
Q. All right. And so when you left there
between the two shows you were going to go get
something to eat; is that right?
A. Yeah. A little bit of shopping and some
eating .
Q. And your companion, was that Constance
Doolan?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And did you have plans as to where to go to
to eat?
A. NO.
Q. Okay. So when you left the theater you were
walking along and then you came to the intersection;
is that right?
A. Rather we were in the retail store called
Cargo.
Q. Okay. What kind of a store is that? I'm
not familiar with that.
A. Retail house items that are - - house items I
guess you'd call them.

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Q. All right
A. And then we walked out of Cargo ending up on
the corner of the Bullseye Gallery which is the
northeast corner of the corner in question.
Q. Of the intersection?
A. Intersection, yeah.
Q. Had you had any alcohol to drink that day?
A. No.
Q. Were you on any prescribed medications of
any kind?
A. No, sir.
Q. Okay. And at some point in time when you
were there you observed Mr. Chasse; is that correct?
A. From the northeast corner I observed and
heard a great consternation, both vocally and
visually.
Q. So did the visual and the auditory sort of
occur at the same moment?
A. My looking up and perception of them, yes.
Q. Okay. And what did you see?
A. Mr. Chasse being pursued by three officers
of the law. My - - from mid block down towards the
corner in question.
Q. Were there any police vehicles around that
area at the time?

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A. Not that I was aware of at that moment.

Q. All right. How far did you observe the
police officers follow Mr. Chasse before there was
like physical contact between Mr. Chasse and one or
more of the officers?
A. By physical contact, you mean - -
Q. Touching him somehow, whatever that first
contact was. And we'll get to that later.
A. All right. The half block downhill grade,
some reaching out I suppose would constitute about
touching.
Q. Okay.
A. The takedown was at the corner.
Q. Okay. Do you think they touched him at any
time prior to the takedown occurring, or could you
tell?
A. My view began mid block.
Q. Okay.
A. My tracking began mid block.
Q. And as you're observing them run from mid
block to the corner, did you see him actually touch
him in any way, either with a hand or piece of
equipment?
A. Well, sure, because it ended in a takedown.
Q. Okay. And -- but prior to that takedown?

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1 I'm going to get to that. I'm wondering as he's

2 running along is someone shoving him or tapping him?
3 A. Well, a reach for.
4 Q. But you're not sure whether there was any
5 contact?
6 Because reaching to me means just placing
7 your hand out in front of you. Do you agree with
8 that?
9 A. They were all running at the same pace.
10 Q. Okay. Did you notice any difference among
11 the law enforcement officers with regard to their
12 uniforms?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. And what did you notice that was different
15 about them?
16 A. One officer, the youngest, had a light green
17 uniform on.
18 Q. And what was the color of the uniforms of
19 the other two officers?
20 A. Blue and black, a combination, blue.
21 Q. Okay. And the officers are running after
22 Mr. Chasse; is that right?
23 A. Yep.
24 Q. Is Mr. Chasse carrying anything?
25 A. A backpack. And they are in - - their hands

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are in contact with the backpack.

Q. Okay. What did you notice about
Mr. Chassels appearance?
A. His - - his physical appearance?
Q. Yes. I mean, using any of your senses when
you first observed this beginning.
A. Lean, tall, skinny, nothing too
extraordinary.
Q. All right. Anything unusual about the
police officers that you saw following him?
A. By unusual you mean - - or - -
Q. Well, you've had some experience with law
enforcement officers, and sometimes someone might tell
me I saw a law enforcement officer but his uniform was
unusual, he had a black helmet on, equipment,
something about him. Or did they appear to you to be
sort of normal street police attire?
A. Yes.
Q. That's correct, the latter one?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And then they ultimately came in
contact with Mr. Chasse; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you describe what you saw and heard?
A. Yes. The forceful tackle resulted in

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26
1 everyone going down in various ways, one officer
2 executing a judo roll of sorts in his fall, the other
3 skidding on his feet. But there was a moment that all
4 four men were on the ground.
5 Q. Okay. From listening to you, it sounds like
6 all four people landed at the same time. Is that
7 correct or not?
8 A. It was all split second, but quite - - quite
9 visually specific of four men running with great force
10 on a downhill resulting in a tumble and tackle of four
11 men, at least for that moment of the takedown everyone
12 on the ground.
13 Q. All right. Tackle can mean different things
14 to different people.
15 A. M-hm.
16 Q. Did you play football in high school?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Have you played football at all other than
19 perhaps tackle, touch - -
20 A. I know the rules of football.
21 Q. You know the rules of football. Do you
22 watch football on telephones?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Do you go to football games?
25 A. No.

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Q. Tackle could mean taking someone's arms and
plowing them to their back and knocking them down, it
could be hitting them in the feet making them tumble
over, it could be taking their arms and wrapping them
around somebody.
A. M-hm.
Q. How would you describe this tackle?
MR. STEENSON: Objection, argumentative. Go
ahead.
THE WITNESS: In the theater we have
licensed choreographers for fighting on stage so that
it's safe.
Q. (ByMr. Rice) Sure.
A. And so this phrase is also used in
choreographic sessions. And so tackle to me can mean
many things.
Q. Okay. And what did - - did you observe
something that makes you use the word tackle?
A. Seeing four large men fall to the ground
after running.
Q. Okay. Could you tell, from where you were,
whether all four of them impacted Mr. Chasse at the
same time or was it more like dominoes going over
where perhaps one person actually was the first in
contact with him and the others tumbling or did it

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happen too quick?

A. All four did not impact on his body.
Q. Okay.
A. There would be the case of one - - one sense
of contact that seemed like part of the judo roll that
was executed so it was partial - -
Q. All right.
A. - - upon his body.
Q. And let me stop you. Was his body on the

ground when that happened or was it in mid air?
A. It was on the ground.
Q. Okay. So one officer landed on the ground
and did this roll that you described?
A. Yeah. Mr. Chasse was pushed, he fell, and
within all the same sets of seconds down came officer
one executing a judo roll, one slipped on his feet and
to his bottom, I believe the young man in the green
out£it.
Q. Was he the - - the green outfit that slipped
on his feet or the first one?
A. That's my memory --
Q. Okay.
A. -- is that his was a slip.
Q. All right.
A. And the third was somewhere in the midst of

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
29
this very quick tumble slash tackle.
Q. Okay. From your vantage point when
Mr. Chasse fell, could you tell how his arms were
positioned?
A. No.
Q. Could you tell, during the fall of the
officers, how any of their arms were positioned?
A. No.
Q. Once the four individuals landed on the
pavement itself - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - what happened next?
A. Much. What happened just next was a
continued pursual from ground and then up.
Q. And what do you mean by up?
A. People regaining -- getting back onto their
feet .
Q. Okay. Did Mr. Chasse ever get back onto his
feet?
A. In the mix of the next three or four
minutes, yes.
22 Q. Okay. Did each of the other officers at
23 some point get back to their feet?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. So they land on the ground and then

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
30
you observed people getting up. Did that happen

immediately after they hit the ground?
A. The - - yeah. The pursual continued in a
chaotic fashion and it included certainly in swift
time all four getting back up.
Q. Okay. And when they got back up, did they
begin running again?
A. It stayed relatively contained in a
exuberant flailing of and dancing about and Mr. Chasse
dodging them.
Q. So was he - - was it more like - - did you
ever see a boxing match on television?
A. M-hm, yes.
Q. Okay. Sometimes in a boxing match one of
the persons is not running away but moving from side
to side or back and forward. Is that what Mr. Chasse
is doing? How is he dodging them?
A. He was surrounded by them. He's dodging and
ducking.
Q. Okay. And is he dodging and ducking people
trying to grab him or people trying to punch him or
what is it that he's dodging?
A. At this -- at this moment, the officers
grabbing at him.
Q. Okay. And did - - how long did that last?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
31
A. That segment would be 45 seconds.

Q. Okay. And when that segment ended, did the
altercation turn into something else?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the next phase, if I can use
that phrase?
A. The next phase was the officers attempting
to gain control, beginning to use their arms in what
seemed like -- this next phase seemed like here comes
the arrest.
Q. Okay. Let me just back up for a moment.
When they're chasing Mr. Chasse, are the officers
saying anything to Mr. Chasse that you can hear?
A. It's quite verbal on everyone's part.
Q. Okay.
A. So yes, I think - - exact words I don't know,
but certainly the word stop would have been in there.
Q. Okay. Is Mr. Chasse saying anything back to
them?
A. Yes.
Q. What's he saying?
A. No, no, no.
Q. All right. And then the next thing that
happens is they're standing -- they get back up on
their feet and they're standing around each other?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
32
A. Yes.
Q. H e r s dodging them as you described?
A. H e r s dodging them and speaking.
Q. And what's he saying at that point?
A. What have I done, no, no, no, don't hurt me.
It's high pitched and it's fast speech.
Q. Is it a loud or quiet fashion?
A. High pitched and loud.
Q. Okay. And as someone in the theater there
are different not just modulations but tone that's
involved. How would you describe his tone?
A. For an adult male, I would say surprisingly
high pitched and panicked. I would say that there was
great stress and panic in his voice.
Q. All right.
A. Theatrical as we call it.
Q. And that's your background and so that's why
I'm asking you that. How about on the officers' part
when they're standing up, are the officers saying
anything to him?
A. They're just completing grabbing the bag - -
backpack and they are beginning -- they are saying get
down on your stomach, get down on your stomach.
Q. Okay. And how about the - - the -- both the
volume and the tone of their voice, how would you

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
33
describe that?
A. Mighty.
Q. Mighty?
A. (Nods head. )
Q. Was it loud?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you clearly hear them?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So we went from the phase of them
standing up to the next phase and they're ordering him
to the ground; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Does he comply?
A. There's a mixture of noncompliance and
dodging and the beginning of forcing him down.
Q. Okay. So the officers have their hands on
him - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is it all three of them or can you tell
which ones?
A. Oh, it would be fair to say that. And mind
you, this is in millisecond increments - -
Q. Okay.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
34
A. - - that all three.
Q. And when they start pushing him down, does

he go down to the ground?
A. They're not very successful.
Q. Okay. He's able to resist the three
officers pushing on him?
A. Yes. He's moving in a I'd say circular and
surprisingly athletic manner.
Q. Okay. Would you describe him as being a
flexible person? And maybe you can't tell. Is that
right, is that what you're telling me?
A. I -- I don't know him so I wouldn't describe
him as a flexible person.
Q. All right. I'm just seeking his body
movements. For example, did you ever see - -
A. Ah.
Q. -- a martial arts like a kung fu movie where
someone's in that - - have you ever seen a movie like
that?
A. I prefer nonviolent movies.
Q. All right. Have you ever seen Crouching - -
was it Crouching Tiger, whatever that movie was?
A. It was beautiful.
Q. It was beautiful and sort of a combination
of dance I would call it and martial arts. Right?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
A. M-hm.
Q. And the movement of those actors are - - I
would describe are very flexible people.
A. In that moment of this incident, yes, he was
flexible.
Q. Okay. So he is dodging them and avoiding
them somehow. Ultimately, do they - - do the officers
push him to the ground?
A. Yes.
Q. Or is that what happened next?
A. A continued attempt to control Mr. Chasse at
this point includes pushing him down to the ground as
he says not on my stomach, not on my stomach.
Q. Okay.
A. And they are - - there are now feet on limbs
and -- and physical pressure pushing down from the
officers.
Q. Okay. I understand by pushing down you're
showing with your hands. Feet on limbs, what does
that mean?
A. A foot on a - - to keep him to the ground, an
officer's foot upon one of Mr. Chasse's foot -- feet.
Q. Okay. So one officer sort of pinning a foot
to the ground, is that how you would describe that?
A. Yes.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
36
Q. Okay.
A. In an attempt to I suppose move towards
handcuffing him.
Q. Okay. What happens next?
A. The handcuffing or next step doesn't seem to
be successful. There still seems to be much
adrenaline and consternation. In this next segment or
section many things happen. A Taser gun or a gun that
I then would assume was a Taser device is taken out
and through the next session is applied. One can hear
echoing on the building, the reverberation of that
instrument being fired.
Q. Was there any conversation among the
officers about the Taser that you heard?
A. Not that I heard.
Q. Okay. And prior to this incident, did you
have any familiarity with Tasers?
A. Passing familiarity, but not - - knowledge
that they existed.
Q. You knew they existed?
A. Yeah.
Q. Did you understand how they operate?

A. M-hm.
Q. And what's your understanding of how they
operate?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
37
1 A. An electrical current that can help stun
2 somebody's system and some actually have a retracting
3 thing. I suppose that I know that there are two kinds
4 as best I would know from, you know, watching the
5 television and asking relatives.
6 Q. All right. And did your relatives talk to
7 you about the Taser, how it operates?
8 A. Didn't talk to the - - five or six years
9 ago - -
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. - - yeah. Not now.
12 Q. Do you remember what they said or is that
13 sort of a hazy memory?
14 A. It can render a arresting subject still.
15 Q. Okay. Anything else?
16 A. Oh, during that section? In the rising - -
17 in the control not being settled yet --
18 Q. Let me ask you: Do you know how long the

19 Taser was applied? Because you heard some noise.
20 A. I heard four distinct sounds that matched
21 the arm motion of the officer.
22 Q. Okay. And do you know how long they either
23 were in total, can you estimate that, or how long each
24 one was, whatever's easier for you?
25 A. They were in rather quick succession, the

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
38
1 four individual moments. And it would be hard for me
2 to know what the exact amount of the seconds in which
3 the Taser was applied would be.
4 Q. Okay. And how would you describe the sound?
5 A. It was both a sound from the instrument and
6 then a different kind of sound echoing on the
7 buildings. From the instrument itself a kind of low
8 electrical rattle with a slight pinning or pop.
Q. And what was the sound coming off the
buildings that was reverberating?
A. More of a mid-range pop.
Q. Were the officers saying anything when the
Taser was being applied that you heard?
A. The whole incident was vocal. It continued
get down, get down, not on my stomach, not on my
stomach.
Q. Okay.
A. In this -- oh.
Q. As you're observing, you're hearing the
noise, is there anything as you look at Mr. Chasse
that makes you think that electrical current's being
applied on him?
A. Well, a lot else was happening to him at the
same point. There was also fisticuffs during that
period of time. So we were observing several things

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
Randall Stuart, 7 / 1 4 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v. Hurnphreys, et al.
39
including that happening.

Q. All right. So was there so much happening
you can't attribute any particular thing to the Taser
itself?
A. He became unconscious a minute or so later.
Q. Okay. I meant at the time. And we'll get
to that next phase.
A. M-hm.
Q. You said there were fisticuffs as well.
Could you describe that for me?
A. Arms and legs - - arms and legs in use on the
subject.
Q. And is he erect, is he flat on the ground,
is he somewhere in between?
A. He's on the - - the ground almost handcuffed,
almost subdued.
Q. Okay. Do you know where his arms are when
that's happening? Can you see them?
A. They -- during the first part of this
section one arm was below him, one above, and then
very soon in this mix they had both his arms back.
Q. Okay. Can you tell - - as you're looking at
him are you looking at the right side of his body or
the left side of his body?
A. A lot of motion. At this - - and he wasn't

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
40
always in the same position.
Q. Okay. Do you know which arm was tucked
underneath him when you described that and which arm
was out to one side?
A. That would be a millisecond of what I'm
describing.
Q. Okay. And is there any - - is there any way
between the two officers wearing blue, not the green
uniform, but the other two officers, that you can
distinguish between the two of them?
A. Between the two gentlemen?
Q. Yes.
A. Physically?
Q. Any way. I mean, I want to make one obvious
one, one appeared to be black, one appeared to be
white. I'm not saying that's the case. But is there
some way, in your mind, you can distinguish between
the two of them?
A. Yes.
20 Q. And what's - - how do you distinguish between
21 the two of them?
22 A. The slightly older of the gentlemen in blue
23 is mostly standing during the confrontation.
24 Q. All right.
25 A. The other gentleman in blue is - - is down

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
41
and working on the arrest.

Q. Okay. The younger one?
A. Yes.
Q. All right.
A. The younger man in blue.
Q. Younger man in blue, just between those two.
The green uniform makes it a little bit easier to
separate him out.
When Mr. Chassels down on the ground, do you
know, was it the younger one or the older one that is
holding his hand out to the side?
A. Can you repeat the question?
Q. Yes.
I think you told me at one point that one
officer was standing and Mr. Chasse's arm was either
out to the side or behind him somehow and his other
arm was tucked underneath him, and I 1 m trying to
determine if you know, if you know, which officer was
holding the arm to the side and which officer was
involved with his hand underneath him.
A. The older officer was more involved with his
own arms, the officer's arms, and Mr. Chasselsupper
body at that moment in this phase of the arrest.
Q. Okay.
A. It is also in this phase of the arrest that

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
42
1 to subdue Mr. Chasse I have a general recollection of
2 fists being thrown, fisticuffs, as well as kicking.
3 Q. Okay. Let's break those two down. Did you
4 see the older officer ever use his fist on Mr. Chasse?
5 A. Not that I recall.
6 Q. Okay. Did you see the younger officer in
7 blue ever use his fist on Mr. Chasse?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And how many times did you see the younger
10 officer in blue use his fist on Mr. Chasse?
11 A. Many things were happening at once. I'll
12 say I can recall two.
13 Q. Okay. And when I ask you questions, I
14 understand you may not be able to give the definitive
15 answer to these things because things obviously
16 happened rapidly.
17 How about the officer in green, did you
18 observe him using his fist on Mr. Chasse?
19 A. I did not observe that.
20 Q. Okay. And when the officer in blue used his
21 fist twice on Mr. Chasse, could you tell whether it
22 was - - where the blows struck?
23 A. Oh, yes.
24 Q. And where did he come into contact with
25 Mr. Chasse?

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
43
1 A. Somewhere within the mid range. There was a
2 lot of motion at that moment.
3 Q. And mid range could mean a lot of things.
4 A. Between waist and neck.
5 Q. Okay. Is the conversation continuing as
6 you've indicated before lie on your stomach and
7 Mr. Chasse saying no, or has the conversation changed
8 in any way?
9 A. Mr. Chasse is consistently saying no to
10 the - - the Taser implementations and wiggling and
11 moving.
12 Q. During this episode, I'm not sure I've asked
13 you, where was the officer in green? Was he in
14 contact with Mr. Chassers body?
15 A. They were all in contact with Mr. Chassels
16 body.
17 Q. And were they all up in the torso area or
18 were they -- one officer has his arm at one point to
19 the side, the older officer. The younger officer's on
20 the other side either pulling his arm or other side of
21 the body. Where's the officer in green at that point,
22 if you know?
23 A. Towards the bottom Mr. Chasse's body.
24 Q. All right.
25 A. And my memory -- yeah, yeah.

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
44
Q. All right. So is the next phase when

Mr. Chasse's cuffed or is there something else that
transpires we've not talked about?
A. We've spoken of kicking.
Q. You're right.
Who kicked Mr. Chasse that you observed?
A. The kicking that I observed would have been
from the younger officer in blue.
Q. Okay. And when he did that, was he lying on
his side kicking him, was he standing up and kicking
him?
A. Mr. Chasse was about 80 percent contained at
this point. Again, it was not a complete arrest yet.
Q. All right. And the younger officer kicked
him; is that correct?
A. During the period of Taser, kicking, and
fists, yes.
Q. Okay. How many times did you observe the
younger officer kick Mr. Chasse?
A. It'd be safe to say three.
Q. Okay. And kicking to me means the use of
the person's foot. Is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And kicking could theoretically be either
the direct toe going into somebody or it could be the

( 3 6 0 ) 695-5554 ** ( 5 0 3 ) 223-4040
45
1 side of someone's foot. Could you tell what the kick
2 looked like from where you were?
3 A. It would have been toe, toe to flesh.
4 Q. All right. Did you see any - - any other
5 officer kick Mr. Chasse?
6 A. So much was happening so I -- I shall say
7 no.
8 Q. Prior to the actual cuffs being on
9 Mr. Chasse, has there been any physical force,
10 punching, kicking, anything like that, that we've not
11 talked about at this point?
12 A. In the melee there could have been a slap or
13 two.
14 Q. Okay. And by slap, that's something - - an
15 open hand?
16 A. Yeah. Against flesh.
17 Q. Okay. Can you attribute any open-handed
18 slaps by any officer to Mr. Chasse?
19 A. No, sir. It was sound.
20 Q. Is there any way of you coming up and saying
21 I heard a certain number of slaps, I heard three
22 slaps, I heard eight slaps, whatever?
23 A. In this section of the arrest?
24 Q. Yes.
25 A. (Shakes head.)

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
46
Q. The answer's no?

A. The answer's no.
Q. Is there anything else we've not talked
about in terms of physical force prior to Mr. Chasse
being handcuffed?
A. Not prior, no.
Q. Okay. During this entire time, have you
remained on the northeast corner of the intersection?
A. No, sir. I've moved from northeast to
southeast.
Q. Okay. At what point during the altercation
that we've just talked about did you move from the
northeast to the southeast?
A. Perhaps 30 seconds after the takedown
moment.
Q. Okay. From the time you first observed
Mr. Chasse to him being cuffed, do you have an
estimate of how much time that was?
A. Observed Mr. Chasse halfway up the block
being - -
Q. Right.
A. - - chased?
Until when?
Q. Until the point h e r s actually handcuffed.
A. Some - - somewhere in the four-minute mark.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
47
Q. All right. So when Mr. Chasse's handcuffed,
is he on his stomach, is he on his back, is he on his
side? How would you describe his body position?
A. Stomach and soon to be on his side.
Q. Okay. And when we say handcuffed, he's
cuffed behind his back; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And how did Mr. Chasse get from being on his
stomach to on his back? Did he roll over himself or
was he assisted by the law enforcement officers?
A. I'm sorry, repeat that question.
Q. When Mr. Chasse went from being cuffed on
his stomach to cuffed on his side, did he, on his own,
move his body to his side or did the law enforcement
officers place him on his side, if you know?
A. I don't remember that.
Q. Okay. Once Mr. Chasse is lying on his side,
is he saying anything?
A. He's -- his voice is diminishing and his
energy is diminishing, but he's still crying and - -
and does use the word mercy here and he continues to
say no, no, no.
Q. Okay. And what are the police officers
doing?
A. Standing above him looking down.
Schrnitt & Lehrnann, Inc.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
48
Q. Okay. Have any of the police officers
arrived at the scene or is it still just the three
officers that you have observed?
A. Much was happening. By this point there are
more officials there.
Q. And by officials are we talking about police
officers?
A. That's - - that's my memory.
Q. Okay.
A. There are not emergency vehicles here quite
yet.
Q. Okay. We'll get to that I'm sure soon.
A. Oh.
Q. So police officers are standing above him.
Mr. Chasse's on his side. Are they saying anything to

him?
A. I don't remember words at this point.
Q. Okay. What's the next thing that happens?
A. I believe medical arrives right at this
moment.
Q. Okay. Is there more than one medical unit
that arrives?
A. There is a big truck and a smaller truck.
Q. Do you know which one of them arrived first?
A. They were in order, the - - what one thinks

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 2 2 3 - 4 0 4 0
49
of as an ambulance, the shape of a minivan but an

ambulance sized, and then something closer to a - -
perhaps a fire truck or a slightly larger vehicle.
Q. All right. Do you recall which one of those
arrived first, the ambulance or the fire truck?
A. It seemed at the identical moment.
Q. All right. Did EMTs is what I'm going to
call them, medic people, did the EMTs leave their
vehicles and approach Mr. Chasse?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did you observe as they approached
Mr. Chasse?
A. Discussion between they and the arresting
officers and the officers that were gathering.
Q. How far are the EMTs and the police officers
from Mr. Chasse?
A. You mean in their car or in - -
Q. When they're talking together. I mean, are
they three feet from Mr. Chasse, are they ten feet
from Mr. Chasse?
A. There's a group around him so that would be,
what, two feet perpendicular -- or standing up, and
then another group near a now parked police car on
Everett yet another ten feet away.
Q. Did the EMTs from the ambulance and the EMTs

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
50
from the fire truck stay together or did they divide

up?
A. I wasn't tracking that at that moment.
Q. All right. What - - could you hear what the
police officers and the EMTs were talking about?
A. Yes. Now -- at this point, yes, you could
hear some conversation.
Q. Okay. What conversation did you hear that
transpired between the law enforcement officers and
the EMTs?
A. For me it was specifically hearing from the
EM -- the female EMT --
Q. Okay.
A. -- he's bleeding from his mouth.
Q. Okay. When you're standing looking at
Mr. Chasse at that point, are you seeing his face or
are you seeing his back, are you seeing his feet?
What's the - -
A. At this point it's his back, his head is
going north.
Q. Okay. And at that point, had you seen
Mr. Chasse bleeding at all?
A. Yes. During the fisticuff section I saw one
of his arms with a large red gash as well as a large
bruise.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
51
Q. Okay. And the EMT said he's bleeding from

the mouth; is that right?
A. That's what I heard.
Q. Did you hear any response to that from
anybody?
A. I heard no verbal response.
Q. Okay. Did you see any response?
A. Further discussion as if she was being
updated on what had just happened.
Q. Okay. How long did that discussion take
place before any EMT approached Mr. Chasse?
A. She - - she had already approached. They
were quite close to him, over him.
Q. Okay. So when she's saying he's bleeding,
is she actually at Mr. Chasse's side?
A. No. She's walking towards him.
Q. All right. And when she walks toward him,
what do you see her do or hear her do?
A. There's some discussion and then in relative
posthaste she kneels down and begins to assess.
Q. Okay. And did you see her either treat
Mr. Chasse or test Mr. Chasse in some fashion?
A. Yes. I got the sense that - - that there was
a - - perhaps a - - you know, an arm cuff for blood
pressure, that there was the beginning of an

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
52
assessment.
Q. As she's approaching Mr. Chasse is she
carrying anything?
A. Yes. She or perhaps someone with her,
there's a - - like a black medical kit or tool kit.
Q. And they begin to assess Mr. Chasse. Is he
still on the ground on his side handcuffed?
A. Yes.
Q. What's the next thing you observe?
A. Mr. Chasse going limp and beginning to
change color.
Q. Okay. And when he went limp, are you still
looking at him from his - - you're looking at his back
at that point in time?
A. Yeah. Sort of a three quarter so not
totally his back.
Q. And when you say he goes limp, is it a slump
or how would you describe that?
A. A crump.
Q. So his body just becomes loose?
A. Yeah. His - - his vocal speech diminishes
and disappears and he goes loose - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - as you might observe someone fainting
perhaps.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
53
1 Q. All right. Is there any way - - as you look
2 at his hands, can you tell what color they are, if
3 there's been any change in color?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And when you look at his hands, what do you
6 see?
7 A. The color draining from them.
8 Q. And what color would they be turning into or
9 toward?
10 A. After about two to three minutes they were
11 quite blue gray
12 Q. Okay. Could you see his face at all during
13 this point?
14 A. Kind of a quarter view, not a full view.
15 Q. Okay. When you looked at his face, could
16 you tell any change in color?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. And what could you observe?
19 A. His forehead also turning quite gray and
20 blue.
21 Q. Okay. And is the - - are the EMTs around him
22 at that time?
23 A. The EMTs and the officers, yes, are circled
24 around him.
25 Q. And the officers.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
54
1 And do you see any reaction, on their part,
2 to this change that you're observing?
3 A. No.
4 Q. All right. What's the next thing that
5 happened?
6 Can you hear any conversation among them,
7 the EMTs and the police officers at that time?
8 A. There is conversation, but it goes off
9 voice.
10 Q. Okay. What's the next thing you either see
11 or hear happen?
12 A. A great pause of very little happening which
13 seemed odd. The older of the officers stepping away
14 to glove up and assess and he says what - - we hear one
15 word which is the word from that officer bite and he
16 moves away and looks at his arm and gloves up.
17 Q. Okay. And what's the next thing that you
18 observe happening?
19 A. Minutes go by and they're standing and off-
20 voice discussion.
21 Q. And by off-voice discussion, you mean you
22 can't hear what's being said?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. What's the next thing you observe
25 happening?

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
55
A. After about two minutes or so, perhaps

three, at that point Mr. Chasse's fingers begin to
move as if they are awakening.
Q. From the first time that you observed him go
limp to that point in time, do you have an estimate of
the time lapse in between there?
A. I'm going to estimate anywhere between two
and four minutes.
Q. Okay. What's the next thing that occurs?
A. He reanimates slowly, fingers first, color
in fingers first. And once he is reanimated he
becomes vocal immediately.
Q. And when he's vocal, what do you hear?
A. Help me, help me.
Q. Okay. Is --'can you tell, is he looking at
someone, is he just - -
A. Nearby - -
Q. - - shouting this out?
A. - - the --
Well, they're all there. The - - the EMT,

the lead gal who had helped him earlier by taking his
blood pressure or what have you, is there and they
make eye contact. She and Mr. Chasse make eye
contact.
Q. Okay. Is she standing at that point or is

( 3 6 0 ) 695-5554 ** ( 5 0 3 ) 223-4040
56
she still kneeling?

A. Well, she had been standing a lot during the
pause. She is kneeling when he reanimates.
Q. Okay. Is she doing something to him when
that's going on or she just happened to be kneeling
when that happens?
A. Kneeling.
Q. During this time that the EMTs have been
near or in the vicinity of Mr. Chasse, he's wearing a
shirt; is that right?
A. Yeah. H e r s in a shirt and coveralls - - or
trousers. Yes, he's dressed.
Q. Can you observe, considering his clothing,
whether or not his chest is moving?
A. Do you mean at this moment in the - - that
I'm describing?
Q. Yeah.
A. Well, h e r s awake and speaking at this point.
Q. Okay. How about when he went limp, during
20 that phase was his shirt such or the way the shirt was
21 on his body that you could tell whether or not his
22 chest was moving?
23 A. I was, again, mostly viewing his back with
24 about a three quarter on his body. And it was clear
25 he was not breathing. The only place his shirt was

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
57
ruffled to my view was exposed his arm. Perhaps the

shirt had been ripped.
Q. So when you were looking at him and he was
limp, it's your impression that he was not breathing;

is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. When he again starts to interact with the
female EMT who's kneeling beside him, what do you
observe transpire?
A. Off voice at this point she seems to create
a comforting something and - - with the idea of saying
I'll be right back, and so she stands as if to go get
something and he screams mightily for her don't leave,
don't leave.
Q. Okay. When she walks away, is she carrying
anything?
A. I don't have a memory of that.
Q. Does the EMT leave the immediate area
Mr. Chasse is?
A. She may be only going over to -- to her
things, her - - her medical needs.
Q. Okay.
A. She comes back swiftly.
Q. So she comes right back to Mr. Chasse?
A. Relatively swiftly.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
58
Q. And the officers and the other EMTs are
still standing around; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. While this is transpiring, are there more
police officers that are arriving at the scene?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And are they parking their cars in
the immediate area of Mr. Chasse?
A. Yes and no.
Q. Some were?
A. Cars parked on Everett and - - yeah, they're
about.
Q. Okay. And when she returns to Mr. Chasse,
can you hear conversation between Mr. Chasse and the
female EMT?
A. The question again?
Q. When the female EMT comes back to
Mr. Chasse, can you hear any conversation between the
two of them?
A. No, because itls covered by him - - his --
his vocal excitement again. He's scared of something
she's going to do.
Q. And by vocal excitement, is this the
high-pitched --
A. High pitched.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
59
1 Q. - - noise you described earlier?
2 A. No, no, don't touch me.
3 Q. All right. Is he -- is she doing something
4 to him? Can you see that she's actually touching him
5 or doing something to him?
6 A. Something to do with his left arm.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. It seems as if there's something in her hand
9 like a cylinder. I - - he begins to animate and wiggle
10 and move and - - and the game is on again. They're
11 having to control him - -
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. - - as they - - as she tries to do something,
14 a test or something.
15 Q. And when they begin to control him, is this
16 EMTs trying to hold him down or - -
17 A. No.
18 Q. -- is it police officers?
19 A. Police officers.
20 Q. Is it the same officers that were involved
21 earlier with Mr. Chasse?
22 A. To the best of my recollection, while I
23 watched --
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. -- with interest what she was doing.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
60
1 Q. Okay. So are they using their hands to hold
2 him still while the EMT apparently is doing something
3 to him?
4 A. In my view at least one of them, yes.
5 Q. All right. Are -- do you observe any blows
6 or kicks or anything like to him at that time or are
7 they simply holding him in place?
8 A. Don't recall, but certainly holding in
9 place.
10 Q. Do you actually see the female EMT do
11 something to him with this device she has in her hand
12 or could you tell?
13 A. I - - I don't know if it was successful, if
14 it was just a swab or a test or a -- something
15 helpful.
16 Q. Okay. And when that is concluded, does she
17 then stand up or does she remain kneeling?
18 A. Well, they've moved from - - from - -
19 everyone's moved because h e r s been able to wiggle
2o away.
21 Q. How far did he wiggle?
22 A. Five to six feet.
23 Q. So he wiggles, she uses the device to
24 whatever - - whatever that was. When she's - - does she
25 conclude that somehow and then change her body

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
61
position, the EMT? Does she stand up, does she walk
away, does she stay with him?
A. I think they all stayed within his sphere.
Q. Okay. What's the next thing that happened?
A. They completed the secondary movement of the
black strap or hog tie, I don't know the proper word
for it, the restraining device that is long and black
and like a rope. And they -- they had partially put
that on him when - - just before he went into
unconsciousness. They completed that situation.
Q. Okay. And by completed that, what did you
observe?
A. I observed the second stage of - - of his
legs being tied at one end and his arms being tied at
another.
Q. Okay. His arms are behind him; is that
right?
A. Behind him.
Q. You're indicating the front, but he was - -
his arms are behind him and are handcuffed still; is
21 that right?
22 A. (Nods head.)
23 Q. And is it a tightening of the strap, is that
24 how you would describe it?
25 A. If not a tightening right in that moment,

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
62
it's soon to occur that it's tightened.

Q. Okay. Once that had transpired, what's the
next thing that happened?
A. Still a lot going on.
Q. Well, what else is going on?
A. There's a clear decision that the officers
are going to take him.
Q. And what leads you to that conclusion?
A. He was lifted in the air and it resulted in
him being taken in the air up - - back up the street
from whence the event began.
Q. Was he picked up?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know how many officers picked him up?

A. Certainly two - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - possibly a helper.
Q. All right. So there was at least one or
maybe two?
A. Yeah.
Q. And how were they holding him to pick him up

off the ground and take him?
A. Like one would carry a deer.
Q. Okay. Someone was in the front and someone
was in his torso area and one was in his legs?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
63
1 A. I remember at least two. If there had been

2 three I suppose they would have been all over his
3 body, but it seemed more as if he was hanging.
4 Q. Okay. So what part of the -- was there one
5 officer more near his head and one more near his feet
6 or were they side by - - across from each other?
7 A. Fair to say one at head and one at feet.
8 Q. Okay. The officer that was near his head,
9 what part of Mr. Chasse's body was he holding on to or
10 touching?
11 A. I'm unclear. I'm - - my thought was
12 shoulders.
13 Q. All right. And was the other officer
14 holding him like around his legs?
15 A. It would have been either legs or feet.
16 Q. Okay. And those two officers then carried
17 Mr. Chasse to a car; is that right?
18 A. Carried him back uphill on Everett away with
19 Mr. Chasse vocalizing again and just as strongly.
20 Q. Okay. So he was loudly again using that
21 high-pitched noise; is that right?
22 A. Where his voice sits in his - - yeah, in his
23 body he was still saying, with remarkable energy, no,
24 no, what have I done, no, don't touch me, mercy.
25 Q. Okay. Was he saying that in a clear voice

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
64
that you could understand?

A. Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
Q. And was it loud?
A. Well, it was moderate - - moderate compared
to what it had been previously in the event.
Q. Okay.
A. It was clear.
Q. All right. Did you actually see where the
officers took Mr. Chasse when they carried him?
A. Up and out of our view up Everett uphill.
Q. Okay. So it was around the corner so you
couldn't actually see where they took him to; is that
right?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. What's the next thing that
happened at the actual scene?
A. Another officer walked towards my friend
Constance and I.
Q. So this is not the younger officer or the
older officer or the officer in green but a different
individual?
A. Yeah. An individual who had arrived on the
scene mid.
Q. Mid event?
A. Mid event.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
65
1 Q. Do you know what that officer's name is?

2 A. I do not.
3 Q. Okay. And when that officer -- did he
4 approach Miss Doolan?
5 A. He met her eyes first, yes.
6 Q. Okay. And what transpired between the two
7 of them?
8 A. He said are you interested in what happened
9 just now?
10 Q. Okay. What did - - did she say something
11 back?
12 A. I don't know if it's appropriate for me to
13 say what she said.
14 Q. You can tell us.
15 A. She nodded and said yes.
16 Q. Okay. Was there any - - anything more to the
17 conversation than that?
18 A. M-hm.
19 Q. What -- did the officer reply to her?
20 A. M-hm.
21 Q. What was the reply the officer made to
22 Miss Doolan?
23 A. Though not verbatim, it was an instant
24 accusation of Mr. Chasse, so it was in the -- the
25 nature of the neighborhood of, oh, he has 14 prior

(360) 695-5554 * * ( 5 0 3 ) 223-4040
66
convictions of crack.
Q. Did he say anything other than that at that
time? Is there more to his statement or does that end
his statement?
A. Miss Doolan responded.
Q. Miss Doolan responded?
A. M-hm.
Q. And what did Miss Doolan say back?
A. That may or may not be the case, officer,
but what we just witnessed was quite violent.
Q. Did he respond to that?
A. He got in the police car that was nearby and
rolled up the windows and drove away.
Q. Did anyone ask him for a business card or
some sort of identification?
A. There was no time.
Q. Okay. Was there any conversation you either
were involved with or Miss Doolan was involved with
with any other officer?
A. No, sir.
Q. All right. So when he - - when that officer
gets in the car and drives away, what else do you see
happening?
A. A - - a closing up of the event: People
packing up, getting back into vehicles; a gentleman

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
67
1 coming out with a spray bottle to spray the asphalt
2 area where the blood had been.
3 Q. Could you see the blood prior to that on the
4 ground?
5 A. There was blood on his body and - - yeah,
6 certainly a darkness of blood upon black asphalt.
7 Q. Okay. Can you estimate for me how big an
8 area that that blood covered?
9 A. Nine inches by 12 inches.
10 Q. Okay. And - -
11 A. It's a guesstimate.
12 Q. All right. And he has a spray bottle and
13 he's spraying that area; is that right?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Is it mopped up somehow or does he just
16 spray something on it and walk away?
17 A. There may have been mopping, but the event
18 happened.
19 Q. Okay. Did you have any conversation with
20 any of the EMTs that arrived on the scene?
21 A. No. Though as everything was coming to a
22 close and Mr. Chasse was being brought up Everett and
23 out of our sight there was clear vocal mocking that
24 happened from someone who was either -- the EMT or the
25 fire department. And we witnesses turned to each

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
68
other and said did we just hear that?

Q. What did you hear when you heard these
statements?
A. The mocking of Mr. Chasse's cries for help,
so a child-like imitation of it.
Q. Is there any way of attributing that to any
person other than what you've already told us?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how can you attribute that to any
person?
A. He was dressed differently, had a different
haircut, and I remember who he was.
Q. Okay. Have you ever seen any pictures of
anyone, been able to figure out who he is?
A. I would be - - I Id be able to.
Q. You could, but you have not to this date; is
that right?
A. (Nods head. )
Q. Can you describe the kind of clothing that
he had on?
A. M-hm. Yellowish lime green, those big
utility trousers that I'm assuming are a fireman's
trousers that have suspenders hanging off of them, and
a longer haircut.
Q. All right. Race?

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
69
A. Caucasian.
Q. Anything about his height or weight or some
physical characteristic that stands out to you?
A. A healthy young man of maybe, you know, six
feet or so, healthy, strong, Caucasian male.
Q. All right. And when there was - - were you
the person that said did I jut hear that or did
someone else say that?
A. It was a group consensus.
Q. How many people are standing around that are
what I'm just going to call independent individuals,
not involved with the scene itself?
A. Well, one could - - could see that various
corners have various groups of people. Our corner,
which is the Blue Hour corner and the steps leading up
to the Blue Hour restaurant, our immediate area has
six to eight people, not all of whom stayed through
the entire incident or arrived at the same time, so - -
Q. All right. And were you on - - the Blue
Hour, as I recall, there's some steps that lead up and
there's sort of a patio maybe - -
A. Yes, sir, outside door dining.
Q. - - maybe three or four feet off the ground,
something like that. Is that right?

A. Yes.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
70
1 Q. Okay. And you were on the ground when
2 this -- when you observed these things; is that right?
3 A. No. My - - I was up probably on the - - if
4 not the first step that would have then led to that
5 dining area, then the second step down.
6 Q. Okay. And Constance Doolan, did she remain,
7 I mean, in physical proximity during this time?
8 A. By my side, yep.
9 Q. Okay. And was she below you or above you or
10 standing on the same step?
11 A. My memory is she might have been on the step
12 just below me. She's tall.
13 Q. I haven't had a chance to meet her yet.
14 Is there anything else you observed that day
15 other than the spraying of the street by the fire
16 bureau person or paramedic, whoever that was, and the
17 officers leaving? Did anything else transpire that
18 day we have not talked about?
19 A. A piece of bread was taken out of a backpack
20 and put on top of an officer's car.
21 Q. When did that happen?
22 A. Relatively early in it all. Once they had
23 his backpack and opened it, one person must have been
24 quickly opening it while things continued to
25 transpire. That was put on top of the police car.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
71
1 Q. So while the struggle was going on an

2 officer picked up the backpack and put it on the car?
3 A. Somewhere in the mix there, yes.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. Relatively early. It was there exposed as
6 the heel of a piece of bread, you know, bread there.
7 Q. Okay. So did you see them take this object
8 out of the backpack itself - -
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. - - this bread?
11 Was it loose or was it in a bag, anything
12 like that you recall?
13 A. My recollection of it was that it was a heel
14 of bread exposed.
15 Q. All right. Was the officer that did that
16 someone who had arrived at the scene or was it one of
17 the officers who initially had been chasing
18 Mr. Chasse?
19 A. I'm not positive.
20 Q. Did you see them do anything with regard to
21 the backpack other than reaching in and taking out the
22 piece of bread?
23 A. No, not in the midst of all that was
24 happening.
25 Q. Okay. At this point in time, my

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
72
understanding would be street's been sprayed, the
officers are leaving, you and Miss Doolan are standing
on the steps to the Blue Hour. Is there anything else
that happens or do you leave the scene at that time?
A. We do not leave the scene. We collect our
thoughts and stay. And we eat french fries at the
Blue Hour.
Q. Okay. Of the people who were around the
Blue Hour that day, did you by chance know any of
those people?
A. No, sir.
Q. They were strangers to you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any conversations with the
people who were at the Blue Hour about the events you
had seen?
A. Only to ask a waiter - - there was - - people
were discussing and moving on and going home.
Q. M-hm.
A. To ask a waiter if they had all experienced
what we had experienced.
Q. And did the person - - the waiter respond to
you?
A. He said - - he said, oh, yes, one of our
employees was - - was present.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
73
Q. Okay. Did you know that employee or --
A. No.
Q. - - speak to that employee?
A. No.
One other thing happened. As we ate french
fries about 20 minutes later an unmarked black car
with very dim windows drove by in a slow fashion as if
it were rechecking out the area.
Q. Okay. Anything else?
A. No.
Q. So Miss Doolan and you had your food and
then you left. Did you go back to the play?
A. I'm trying to remember whether we went back
to attend the play again as it was a play I had
directed or whether we went home. I believe we went
home. I think we were in no mood to watch the play
again.
Q. Okay. And by directed, had you directed it
at that theater or at some other time?
A. I was the - - the stage director of the
production performing at that time.
Q. Isee.
Did you have any responsibility that night
there, any work responsibility?
A. No. Once the director's directed the show

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
they're done.
Q. Okay. What I've tried to do was, and I'm
not an artist, unlike you - -
MR. STEENSON: Just a second, just you're
entitled to a break. If you want to break at some
point, I don't know whether you need one or not or
keep going, but that's up to you.
THE WITNESS: Be nice to use the men's room.
Q. (By Mr. Rice) Fine. Any time after you've
answered a question you can just ask to take a break.
A. Yes.
(Recess: 12:24 to 12:30 PM.)
Q. (By Mr. Rice) I have made some - - some crude
diagrams here and I'm going to ask you to begin by
using one of these. And I'm going to ask you where
some of the events transpired.
The difference I've tried to make really is
just that there's more room on one of them than the
other one in terms of placing objects on here. So I'm
going to suggest you use this one. And I'm going to
have our court reporter mark it as an exhibit, but if
you're more comfortable using the second version I'm
happy to use either one of those, and if you want to
create your own diagram you're also free to do that.
A. I'm wondering whether, please forgive me,

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
75
whether Everett and 13th are in the right direction,
if the Blue Hour -- if the Blue Hour is on this
corner, this is Everett.
Q. I have Everett going this way and - -
A. And the Blue Hour would be there, would it
not?
MR. LANDRUM: Everett is east and west, and
13th is - -
Q. (By Mr. Rice) I have a different diagram
then. How about trying that one?
A. I like this one.
Q. All right. There we go. Do you have a pen
with you or should I give you a pen?
A. I'll borrow one from you.
Q. Here's one right here.
A. Oh, should we --
Q. Let her mark that as an exhibit.

(DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 301 was marked for
identification.)
Q. (By Mr. Rice) So I'm going to hand you
what's been marked as Exhibit 301.
A. M-hm.
Q. Does that roughly depict the intersection?
A. Oh, that's a paint line, curb lane, raised
walk, oh, gotcha. Yeah, it does. I see where the

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
76
tree is there, but I know, just from walking Everett
for years now, that there's a tree just beyond this
line that I - - is where I would start my observation.
Q. Okay. So maybe not everything's on the
diagram itself?
A. Right. Although - -
Q. Do you mind if I stand next to you so we can
look at this thing together as I ask you some
questions about it?
A. Sure.
Q. Thank you.
So when you're looking at Exhibit 301,
there's - - you can't see on the diagram where you
first observed Mr. Chasse; is that right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At some point in time, though, you've told
us that the officers were following Mr. Chasse and
they were running together and ultimately they came
into initial contact with him; is that right?
A. M-hm.
Q. And that's when they fell to the ground?
A. That's when they fell to the ground.
Q. Could you mark, with a No. 1, where on the
diagram you believe they fell to the ground.
A. And then we may have other locations to

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
77
come.
Q. Right. So let's just start with the No. 1
and we'll - -
A. This is the sidewalk. There's the end of
the building, okay. Well, of course it was in motion,
but I believe the first - - the reason I'm holding off
is that I do feel I know where the pool of blood was
but that's a different part of the story.
Q. Why don't we get to that a little later. So
the first place would be where they fell to the
ground.
A. (Witness complied.)
Q. There's a 1 there.
And the second thing would be they got up
and they moved somewhat and then there was another
portion of the altercation?
A. M-hm.
Q. And would you put a No. 2 where that
occurred.
A. (Witness complied.)
Q. Did the Tasering take place at No. 2 or did
that take place somewhere else?
A. No. 2 equals a lot of motion, but it's this
general area, and that's where the Tasering took
place.

(360) 695-5.554 ** (503) 223-4040
78
1 Q. And then No. 3, is that the same place that
2 Mr. Chasse was handcuffed or is that someplace
3 different?
4 A. I'm sorry, I'm looking at this paint line
5 assuming it's the top of the curb line. Those still
6 are fine.
7 Am I allowed to draw an area?
8 Q. Sure.
9 A. (Witness complied.)
10 Q. So within that area is where an altercation
11 occurred and he was handcuffed; is that correct?
12 A. He was Tasered and eventually handcuffed.
13 There was some travel, and I do mean quick travel,
14 into this area.
15 Q. And that would be area No. 3.
16 A. And somewhere between 3 and 2 would have
17 been my memory of them finally being able to get him
18 handcuffed.
19 Q. Okay. And there was a pool of blood that
20 you've described. Could you make that area No. 4, or
21 is that within one of the areas you've already
22 designated?
23 A. Yeah, it ended up the man came to spray
24 right around here. No. 4 would be where the pool - -
25 the pool of blood in question that I saw wiped up at

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
Randall Stuart, 7 / 1 4 / 2 0 0 8 Chasse v . Humphreys, et al.
79
the end of the event.

Q. Okay. And you first observed this on the
northeast corner; is that correct?
A. By Bullseye Art Gallery.
Q. Okay. Could you put a No. 5 where that was.
A. Leading to cross the street.
Q. You then at one point moved to point No. 6
which was I believe is that the first and second step
of Blue Hour, or was there something in between there?
A. Oh, no, it would have been dangerous not to
cross correctly. So when I cross I would have been at
No. 6 for just 30 or 40 seconds more, over here on the
corner.
Q. Okay.
A. And then No. 7. Oh, can I number it No. 7 ?
Q. Absolutely.
A. No. 7 would have been up on either first
step or second. It could well have been first.
Q. And first or second step can actually mean
two things I guess. Is it the first step up from the
pavement, is that what you mean by the first step?
A. The dining level, then first step down,
second step down, and I occupied the second, maybe
once in a while moving to third, but mostly just being
against the wall here at No. 7 on the diagram.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
80
1 Q. Okay. So that would be the first or second
2 step that's the highest up, is that correct, or
3 closest to the ground?
4 A. Two steps down from the dining level.
5 Q. Okay. At some point in time you learned
6 Mr. Chasse had died; is that right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you recall how you learned about that?
9 A. On the news.
10 Q. Okay. Do you listen to the television news,
11 to the radio news, or do you get the newspaper or the
12 web, forgetting about that last one?
13 A. It was on the news, the television news.
14 Q. And at that point in time or sometime
15 thereafter you made a statement to the Portland Police
16 Bureau about what had occurred; is that right?
17 A. It was my intention to make a complaint
18 irrespective of the news of his death.
19 Q. And you made that complaint; is that
20 correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And you have - - have you made more than one
23 complaint or have you made just that one complaint?
24 A. Just that one and then the follow-up
25 interview --
Schmitt & Lehmam, Inc.

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1 Q. With Detective Courtney?
2 A. -- with Detective Courtney per the phone
3 call to do so.
Q. Correct.
And then you also testified before the grand
jury?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You told me about that.
Have you had any other -- have you given any
other statements to any investigator we've not talked
about?
A. No. One came last month to my residence,
although I was out of town.
Q. And have you talked - - you told me about
your lawyer and there's a privilege between clients
and lawyers down in California so we're not going to
get into that.
A. Right.
Q. Have you talked to any other lawyers about
what had occurred?
A. Other than to contact Mr. Steenson's office
back in 2006 around the months of the events and the
memorial service and what have you to ask what do I do
next, how can I be helpful to everybody, how can I be
a good witness?

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1 Q. All right. And did you talk to Mr. Steenson

2 or someone in his office?
3 A. Very, very briefly two days ago.
4 Q. Just two days ago?
5 A. Yeah. To get these documents.
6 Q. Okay. But how about back then, I mean,
7 shortly after the incident, did you contact
8 Mr. Steenson's office?
9 A. I may have stopped -- I stopped by asking if
10 I could leave a sympathy note for the family.
11 Q. Okay. And did you have a chance to talk to
12 someone in the office about that?
13 A. I think it was just a secretary who said,
14 you know, we'll do our best or whatever, so I - -
15 Q. Did you actually create a sympathy note and
16 drop it off or mail it?
17 A. I believe so. I have a busy life.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. I know my intention was to do so, but I -- I
20 hope I did.
21 Q. Okay. Have you - - have you been living in
22 the Portland metro area generally since that time?
23 A. Yes and no. I travel a lot.
24 Q. Is that part of your work?
25 A. It is. To go teach eight to 12 weeks at

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universities or go direct plays at regional repertory
theaters. So I was here a lot in 2006 and I've been
here intermittently in 2008, but 2007 barely.
Q. Is your work the kind of work where someone
somewhat unexpectedly calls you up and says would you
- - can you assist us with a project?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Okay. The trial in this matter has been
tentatively set for late April maybe to mid May of
2009. Do you know what your commitments are during
that period of time?
A. They're fluid. And as a free-lancer and
artist in America one is always waiting for the call.
It usually is six months in advance. It can be two
months in advance.
Q. Okay. At this time, do you have anything
scheduled during that time frame?
A. We're talking April - -
Q. April '09.
A. April '09.
Q. The later part perhaps to mid May.
A. I'm not contracted. I have two things
pending.
Q. Okay. Once - -
A. I'm not contracted.

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Q. And when you say contracted, is this someone
actually presents you with a written document, if you
decide saying I'm going to show up and do something,
is it something over the phone where you simply agree
orally?
A. Written legal documents in American Regional
Theater.
Q. I've tried to go through this in sort of a
systematic order that would be helpful for me to
understand what you observed and also for you to tell
us, all of us listening here, what transpired. Is
there any portion of this that I've not covered with
you that you think is significant?
A. Not at this seating.
Q. Okay. Thank you for coming in today. Nice
meeting you.
A. Nice to meet you.
MS. BACK: Do you have any questions?
MS. DUNAWAY: Yeah, I just have a few
follow-up questions.
EXAMINATION
BY MS. DUNAWAY:
Q. Again, my name is Susan Dunaway, and I
represent the green uniform - -
A. Yeah.

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Q. - - and the county.
A. Okay.
Q. Yeah, the green uniform is Bret Burton.
A. Yeah.
Q. One of the statements that you made when
Mr. Rice was asking you questions was that after the
EMTs saw Mr. Chasse and were -- was walking away from
Mr. Chasse, that Mr. Chasse was screaming mightily for
the EMT. What does mightily mean to you?
A. With great emotional need.
Q. And what does that mean? Does it have any
reference to volume?
A. Volume is included.
Q. So he was - - he was screaming very loudly
for her? Is that what you meant when you said
mightily, that he was screaming loud?
A. Not generally loud but you could hear him
quite well. There was a great need in his voice and
it was well articulated and - -
Q. And perhaps you said it but I didn't hear
it. Exactly what was he saying at that time to the
EMT?
A. Don't leave me.
Q. I may have missed it. When you were
describing when all four are running down the street

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1 and then they all fall, what position was Mr. Chasse
2 in when he fell? Was he on his back, his stomach, or
3 his side?
4 A. Once pushed and tripping predominantly on
5 his front, the front of his body.
6 Q. Then when you said that you heard the Taser
being utilized, did you see what part of the -- of
Mr. Chasselsbody the Taser made or if it made contact
with?
A. Through much movement it certainly would
have made contact towards or on his arm and his rib or
waist on the side that I was observing. It would have
been in his mid cavity.
Q. Mid cavity.
And so that would have been on the right
side of his body?
A. No. At that point his head was headed - -
there was much wiggling and his head would have been
in, what do you call - - what's our direction?
Q. In the north direction?
A. Heading towards PSU.
Q. South.
MR. RICE: There's a little circle there.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) South?

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A. In that moment his head was - - was south
when I observed and heard the Tasers and saw some
motion that equaled the sound of the Taser to his
moving body - - Mr. Chassersmoving body near or on his
arm or midsection.
Q. Okay. And what else was happening at that
time when the Taser was being used?
A. Vocalization, Mr. Chasse speaking or
pleading or announcing. And the older of the officers
towards or near his -- his body also trying to contain
him. There was a lot of containing attempts going on
all in that moment.
Q. And were any of the officers saying
anything?
A. This was the section where there - - of what
was heard, this section of the incident included get
down on your stomach, get down on your stomach, no, I
don't want to, no, I don't want to.
Q. Okay. So at this point, is Mr. Chasse still
on his back?
A. At this point, Mr. Chasse is wiggling and is
both on his back and front. This is not - - there is
no containment yet of - - to him only in one -- only in
one position. There is much movement during the Taser
section.

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1 Q. Okay. Would this be correct, after
2 Mr. Chasse falls down on his stomach, from - - from
3 that point on for quite a while during the struggle
4 everything is very fluid and Mr. Chasse is very fluid
5 moving back and forth from his front to his back?
6 Would that be a correct statement? From what you've
7 been saying I've been trying to visualize it, and
8 would that be a correct statement?
9 A. There's the takedown, there's a scuttle
10 away, there's much avoidance and slapping and
11 attempting to get him controlled, at this point they
12 have him semi-controlled and the things they are doing
13 are a foot to a foot, hands and - - hands to chest, an
14 attempt -- a long attempt to handcuff and some
15 Tasering.
16 Q. But Mr. Chasse keeps on flipping back and
17 forth from his stomach to his back?
18 A. It may not be as A and B as that, but there
19 is movement, yes.
20 Q. Okay. At the very end of your - - of
21 Mr. Rice's questioning when you were putting the
22 numbers on the diagram you said that you were first on
23 the northeast corner when you see the pursuit?
24 A. Yes, ma'am.
25 Q. Okay. And then at some point you cross over

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to the Blue Hour; is that correct?
A. Yeah. Maybe 30 or 40 seconds later. Once
it's safe to cross.
Q. Okay. So by safe to cross, I assume you
mean there was traffic going down Everett at some
point?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Were any of the people who were going
down Everett slowing down to observe what was going
on?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you - - did you happen to notice how many
or was every car slowing down to watch what was going
on?
A. Right away - - certainly it would not have
been in the view of everybody, position No. 1 and No.
2, especially on my map - - or on Exhibit No. 301 is
out of eyesight of the people coming down Everett.

Certainly the noise and conflagration were catching
attention. I would say initially some cars were
slowing down and perhaps a few were not.
Q. And what initially caught your attention to
the four of them kind of running down the road?
A. Sound and motion out of my right eye, a view
right up to that second tree.

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1 Q. Were you getting ready to cross Everett at
2 that point?
3 A. Yes, ma'am.
4 Q. Okay. So you were actually - - you were at
5 that corner and you were looking I assume in both
6 directions?
7 A. Looking both ways.
8 Q. Okay. And that was what caught your eye was
9 that you were being cautious and getting ready to
10 cross?
11 A. Yeah.
12 Q. Okay. After Mr. Chasse is cuffed and the
13 officers who were involved in the struggle are
14 standing around, did you happen to notice where the
15 person with the green uniform was?
16 A. There with everyone. There was a small
17 group around Mr. Chasse and then maybe ten feet away
18 by a now parked police car would have been another
19 group. I can't say what exact group he was in. The
20 two groups are very close to one another.
21 Q. So there were two groups of police officers,
22 two groups of -- two groups of people?
23 A. Yeah, a mix of EMTs and the fire folk,
24 etcetera.
25 Q. And they were - -

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A. They were all within - - they were all

waiting and standing and discussing off voice the
event I suppose in this area of No. 2 on my map. The
exact placement of the young officer in green in that
moment I couldn't exactly tell you.
Q. Okay. And so where the No. 2 is then there
is a group of people including the fire fighters,
EMTs, and the police standing around Mr. Chasse?
A. It might say that there's -- I don't know if
it's splitting hairs, but it's -- once h e r s really
down and just before he goes unconscious there's an
area just a little farther this way, about four feet
this way, which makes me wonder whether I should give
it another number.
Q. Okay, that would be good. Where - - could
you put on there as 8, make another circle where all
of the EMTs, police, and fire are standing around him.
A. Oh. Well, can I draw in a now parked car - -
Q. That would be good.
A. - - at this point?
Q. Okay.
A. So I believe there's now, at a slight angle
this way, one of the arrived police cars. Shall I
make that No. 8 ?
Q. Okay.

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1 A. And during this unconscious moment I would
2 call No. 9, which is just a few feet over north of my
3 No. 2 - - uh-oh. I don't want you to think that's a 6 .
4 Here we go, No. 9 would be where he was unconscious
5 and there would be several folks around him. I'm
6 making little Xs around my No. 9. And there would be
7 quite a few folks over here, quite a few officers of
8 the law and medics, near this No. 8 parked car.
9 Q. Okay. And I just want to clarify one point.
10 I believe that you testified that you did not see the
11 officer in green kick Mr. Chasse at any point that you
12 can recall?
13 A. That I can recall.
14 Q. Had you ever seen anybody arrested before?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q . When?
17 A. Living in inner city Oakland almost weekly,
18 usually street crime, you know, or some foot pursual
19 and arrest. Great amount of drug activity and
2o prostitution in the area I have lived in.
21 Q. Okay. And had you ever seen officers ever
22 have to struggle in order to effectuate the arrest?
23 MR. STEENSON: Objection to the extent it
24 calls for speculation. Go ahead.
25 MS. DUNAWAY: I'm asking for his perception.

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MR. STEENSON: I'm still objecting on the
grounds it calls for speculation.
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) Did you ever see officers
struggle to be able to make an arrest?
MR. STEENSON: The same.
THE WITNESS: The arrests I had formerly
seen?
Q. (By Ms. Dunaway) Yes.
A. Minor amounts. Maybe just a bit of scuffle,
a bit of run, but not a takedown, in my experience.
Q. And had you ever seen any - - I assume then
from what you just said that you had never seen a
struggle that went on for as long as this particular
struggle went on?
A. Other than on television, no.
Q. And I think that you indicated that you do
work with choreographers. Is that correct?
A. Yeah. Fight captains and choreographers are
- - in American Regional Theater are utilized for
almost every show.
Q. And so do the choreographers, then they
choreograph --
23 A. Violence.
24 Q. Violence and fights?
25 A. Yeah.

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1 Q. And have you ever been involved in working
2 with a choreographer who is choreographing a fight
3 similar to the one in - - that Mr. Chasse was involved
4 in?
5 A. Yes. Especially modern plays. Classical
6 plays would be sword play, but modern plays are
7 usually hand-to-hand combat.
8 Q. How did you feel after -- after watching
9 this unfold right before your eyes?
10 A. Pensive.
11 Q. Okay. I don't see - - that doesn't sound
12 like emotion to me. That's - - you were just
13 thoughtful .
14 A. Yeah. Well, your question was right after?
15 Q. M-hm.
16 A. Taking it in and feeling pensive and wonder
17 at what had just been witnessed.
18 Q. Were you angry?
19 A. I wouldn't call it anger, no.
20 Q. Were - - distraught?
21 A. Not distraught, no.
22 Q. Exhausted?
23 A. I was quizzical. I was pensive. I wondered
24 what I had just witnessed.
25 Q. But it sounds like you're saying you didn't

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1 have any strong emotional reaction to this?
2 A. Oh, attached to that seeing someone - -
3 seeing the amount of violence involved was certainly a
4 category of my instant reaction, if we're talking
5 about the instant reaction, of despair at what had
6 happened to the person who had been arrested.
7 Q. What about now?
8 A. Still quizzical.
Q. Okay. But did you feel frightened after it
happened originally?
A. Personally not frightened for myself.
Certainly felt it must have been terribly frightening
for everyone involved.
Q. Did you observe, after Mr. Chasse was in
cuffs, did you observe how the - - the officers who
were involved, what their physical state was like?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. What - - can you describe what - - how
they looked after Mr. Chasse was in cuffs?
A. Tall and proud.
Q. Were they - - did you see any sweat on any of
them?
A. Yes. On the - - the older of the chaps.
Q. Did you happen to observe - - the older
meaning the older officer in blue?

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A. Officer Nice.
Q. Nice.
Did you observe how they were breathing?
A. How they were?
Q. Breathing.
A. Breathing? They were breathing fine 'cause
there had been a lot of pausing and waiting and
standing still at the arrest - - I mean, once the
arrest was finalized.
Q. So how long after Mr. Chasse is in cuffs are
you saying that they looked fine?
A. Oh. Well, oh, sorry, cuffs, not - - not
coming back to consciousness.
Q. Right.
A. Okay, pardon me.
Oh. Oh, after the success of the cuffs?
Q. Right.
A. Oh, certainly, I'm sorry, breathing heavily
and some sweat, yeah, and some consternation at that
moment.
Q. And at that - - at that moment, how did they
seem then? Before you said they were standing
proud - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - but that seems to be --

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A. Later.
Q. - - related to something later.
A. That's later.
Q. At that moment, how did they appear
emotionally?
A. Like they had just been through something
large.
Q. Did they look tired, at that point, when the
cuffs go on?
A. The kind of tired after a burst of
adrenaline. Not tired tired like you need a cup of
coffee, but sure, they had just been through a great
exertion of energy - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - yeah.
Q. When Mr. Chasse fell after the pursuit, was
his backpack on his back? Were you able to see
whether or not he had his backpack -- you said earlier
that when he fell he fell on his stomach. At that
point when he falls on his stomach, is his backpack on
his back?
A. I'm tracking in my memory. The backpack was
definitely being pulled away from him in the midst of
the first parts of this event. There was even a
moment that he tried to continue to hold on to it.

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I -- I cannot say whether that backpack was
successfully pulled away from him as they - - as they
ran down and just before the fall, the first fall, or
whether it was immediately after the fall. It was in
that area in time that it was displaced away from him.
Q. Okay. But - - so you're not sure if the
backpack was still on him when he fell?
A. Recalling two years later, no.
Q. Okay. And then I just want to make sure
that I heard your testimony correctly. You said that
at some point Mr. Chasse, while he was unconscious,
appeared - - it appeared to you that he was not
breathing?
A. Yes.
Q. And then he spontaneously awoke and started
breathing again?
A. His body surprisingly reanimated and the
color came back and - - and he almost immediately
spoke.
Q. And during that period of time when he was
unconscious, were you focusing on his back?
A. Our view was not just his back. It was
above and - - and so one could see his forehead.
Q. But could you see his back during that
period of time?

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A. Oh, yeah.
Q. You could?
A. Oh, yeah.
Q. Okay. And were you attempting to observe
whether or not you could see movement in his chest?
A. As someone who deals a lot with death and
dying patients, I saw signs of breathing stopping and
discoloration of his skin and the cessation of
movement on his body or clothing.
Q. And no movement in his chest as you would if
somebody was breathing?
A. Of course the chest was slightly out of my
view by virtue that I was not in front of him but
rather above and behind him, but I saw more than his
back. His cavity, his body was no longer moving,
including the up - - the upper part of his body that I
could observe.
Q. And approximately how far away from him were
you at that point?
A. It would be the mathematics of your chart
here, from my position at No. 7 to the position of No.
9.
Q. Okay. And just one last question. Have you

personally ever been involved in any kind of a fight?
A. I grew up with two brothers, so in my youth,

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sure, a bit of scrabbling about.

Q. But other than that, which I assume was not
one where you really felt seriously like you had to
defend yourself, I hope, have you ever been involved
in any kind of physical altercation?
A. Not in life. A lot on stage.
Q. I think that's all I have.
EXAMINATION
BY MS. BACK:
Q. I just have a few questions for you. My
name's Jean Back, and I'm one of the attorneys that
represents AMR, and that's the ambulance company - -
A. I see.
Q. - - that arrived at the scene.
And I'm going to try not to overlap with the
answers that you've already given the best I can so
I'm going through and marking off my questions that
you've already answered.
A. Okay.
Q. When you speak of the medics, I want to try
and figure out which medics you're talking about at
which point in time. So do you know the difference
between the medics that worked for AMR and the medics
from the fire department?
A. My perception had to do with the different

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
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1 outfits that -- uniforms
Q. Okay. And what uniforms were the medics
that worked with AMR wearing?
A. They seemed to be kind of a dark or perhaps
black jumpsuit, concatenate jumpsuit.
Q. And the fire department folks, what were
they wearing?
A. Certainly at least my perception was that at
least one of them was in the - - what seemed to be
firemen's trousers that have the hanging off
suspenders, a different coloration. So T-shirt and
greenish/yellow trousers perhaps.
Q. Okay. And do you know how many medics you
saw from AMR?
A. I do not, because our - - our focus was so
clearly on the female medic because she was, you know,
female.
Q. Okay. And do you know whether the female
was an AMR medic?
A. Well, yes, because my assumption was the
first car in place which was more ambulance like is
where she and - - and certainly some colleagues came
from. My focus was not on the other colleagues.
Q. Okay. How many people did you see exit from
the first vehicle that came, the ambulance-type

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vehicle?
A. It is not clear to my memory.
Q. Okay. And, again, did you see, was the
female medic carrying anything from the ambulance when
she exited the ambulance?
A. Well, there was a - - like a doctor's kit or
a tackle box type of thing that was part of the
witnessing of the event. My assumption is she would
have brought it, but of course that's an assumption.
Q. Okay. And was - - when the AMR - - and 1'11
represent to you that the female medic was from AMR.
When the AMR medic arrived, was Mr. Chasse hobbled at
that point in time? Was he - - did he have the
connection between his cuffs on his arms and the cuffs
on his legs?
A. My memory says no, that the completion of
the cuffing was after he came back into consciousness.
Q. Okay.
A. My memory of it.
20 Q. Okay. And what was Mr. Chasse doing when
21 the female medic arrived on scene?
22 A. Losing consciousness.
23 Q, He was losing consciousness at the point
24 that she arrived?
25 A. There were moments - - I think there was a

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brief moment of him still semi-functional but on the

ground and contained, and then he went out.
Q. And one of the reasons that you believed
that he lost consciousness was because you saw some
color leave from his hands?
A. Yeah, his hands and his forehead.
Q. And his forehead. And you were able to see
his forehead from your vantage point?
A. Yes.
Q. How -- how much time occurred between when
they cuffed his hands and when you think - - when the
color left from his hands?
A. Many, many chapters between the two. Can
you restate it again for me just so it's fresh in my
brain?
Q. How much time --
A. M-hm.
Q. - - occurred between the time that they
cuffed his hands and the time that you recall his
hands losing color?
A. That would have been -- that would have
included the - - the medic approaching him 1 think
while he still had some consciousness. I'm just
trying to think this through for a second.
Q. Sure, take your time.

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A. For having some - - some connection with him

or the possible blood pressure moment, some thing, and
then he went out, his hands would have turned blue
about two minutes into the four-minute episode, his
hands and his -- and his forehead, so he would have
been effectively cuffed, you know, I'm guessing three
minutes.
Q. Okay. Do you know on the chart that you've
done - -
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. - - what number on that chart was he? I
mean, can you - - that's sort of in a time line, isn't
it, the chart a little bit?
A. A bit, although we've added 8 and 9 that - -
Q. Yeah.
A. - - which are not in sync.
Q. At what number was he cuffed?
A. Somewhere between No. 2 and No. 9 , ma'am,
which are right next to each other.
Q. Okay.
A. So once he's in the fetal and final
position, being cuffed and losing consciousness would
be just within feet - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - of No. 2 and No. 9.

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Q. You - - you said you heard some discussion

between when the female paramedic arrived between the
police officers and the female paramedic. Do you
remember, did you hear what was said?
A. It went off voice. I heard her voice say
either -- well, definitely the words - - the part of
the sentence I heard was he's bleeding from his mouth.
Q. And did you hear her say anything else?
A. No. Her low tones with Mr. Chasse were in a
more private, you know, caring fashion.
Q. How about with the police officers, did you
hear anything other than he appears to be bleeding
from his mouth in that conversation? I know you've
said that already.
A. No. The conversation continued.
Q. And - - and did you hear any more of the
conversation?
A. NO.
Q. Okay. About how long did the conversation
between the police officers and the female paramedic
continue after you heard that first comment?
A. It stretched out during this three- to
four-minute next chapter of quiet and waiting and
things not happening, and so there was quiet as well
as discussion, mostly people standing, including the

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medic, for the majority of that period of time.

Q. Did you hear any conversations -- do you
know who the other AMR medic was?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Did you hear any other conversations between
any of the persons that you would call medics and
police officers at the scene?
A. Only of rising vocal - - vocalization or
slightly louder, but undiscernible conversation from
the young fireman in the trousers with the suspenders.
Q. What was he saying?
A. I do not know.
Q. Were you - - Miss Dunaway may have asked
this. I apologize if I'm asking you a question again.
But were you able to actually - - at the point that he
was conscious, you were able to discern that he
actually stopped breathing because his body stopped
moving; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you able to actually count his
respirations at any point during that time?
A. Not from the distance I was at. It was
clear he was not moving.
Q. So it was clear that his body was silent.
Were you able to actually see the rise and fall of

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his - - his chest or even his back?

A. No.
Q. At any point, were you able to see a rise
and fall of his chest or his back?
A. Before and after this loss of consciousness.
Q. You believe you were able to see that?
A. Well, I mean, he was breathing through the
whole event except for this period of - - my perception
was he was not breathing during this perception --
period of time.
Q. And the question specifically I want to know
is were you able to actually visualize, see the rise
and fall of his chest when - - at the times that you
feel that he was breathing, were you able to visualize
that his - - that there was a rise and fall?
A. Oh, during breathing times?
Q. Right.
A. Oh, yes, ma'am.
Q. And what do you remember about how -- what
is your memory about those visualizations?
A. Physical exertion and both vocal pleas -
pleas, P-L-E-A-S- that moved upwards as well as then
the body following as well.
Q. Okay. So you're speaking more in terms of
just his movement and his speaking, and I'm speaking

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1 just in terms of someone who is at rest and breathing.
2 A. Oh. Oh, yes, there were times he was on the
3 ground before and after unconsciousness in which it
4 was clear he was - - that the cavity of his body,
5 though I was viewing it mostly from the back with a
6 bit of the ability to see the top of his rib cage and
7 his forehead, that he was - - though tied, he was
8 breathing, yes.
9 Q. Okay. Do you remember how he was breathing?
10 Was he breathing rapidly?
11 A. I don't remember specifics about his
12 breathing other than he was animated and awake at
13 those times.
14 Q. Okay. Do you remember whether he was
15 experiencing any problem catching his breath?
16 A. No. That's what was so extraordinary was he
17 was quite vocal and had a lot of power or adrenaline.
18 Q. Were you able to see, at any point in time,
19 whether his eyes were open?
20 A. In the whole event or - -
21 Q. Well, specifically let's take it to when
22 the - - when the AMR paramedics arrived.
23 A. Ah.
24 Q. From then on, were you able to determine
25 whether his eyes were open?
Lehmann, Inc.
Schrnitt &
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109
A. Not from my vantage point.

Q. What - - so when the AMR paramedic got to
Mr. Chasse, did you overhear any conversation between
the paramedic and Mr. Chasse at that point in time?
A. As he was ramping down there may have been a
blood pressure moment of some kind, but before he lost
consciousness just a sense that she was there to help
him and that - - and that he, during that period before
losing consciousness, he did quiet down for a moment.
Q. Did -- was there - - could you tell if there
was eye contact between the two of them?
A. There certainly must have been. She knelt
down near him.
Q. Did she appear to be trying to attend to his
needs?
A. Assessing, yes.
Q. Was she behaving in any way that would
appear to you as mocking or teasing or --
A. NO.
Q. And did you hear any of the - - did you hear
any -- did you hear Mr. Chasse say anything to her
during this period of time?
A. Only upon reawakening saying don't leave me,
don't leave me when she moved away to go get
something.

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110
1 Q. Did you hear him ask or say anything about
2 his backpack?
3 A. No.
Q. And how -- how sure are you about the
statement that Mr. Chasse said don't leave me, don't
leave me?
A. Very sure. It may have been don't go.
Q. Could it have been don't move my backpack?
A. NO.
Q. Do you remember what her reaction to those
words were when he said don't leave me, don't leave
me ?
A. She was already in motion. There was a
moment of a gesture of don't worry, I'm going coming
right back.
Q. And she was in motion to go do?
A. Get something out of the case or get - - just
do whatever she would do next.
Q. Was Mr. Chasse moaning or behaving like he
was in pain when the paramedics were with him?
A. There could have been some moans in there
with the verbalization.
Q. Did you - - I'm - - and let me -- because I
don't think this has been explained very well to you
that guessing isn't really something that I'm

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111
interested in.
A. M-hm.
Q. What I'm interested in is knowing what
you're going to say now - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - because if you say something different in
court --
A. Right.
Q. -- you know, that's important to me:
A. Right.
Q. So aside from what could have happened - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - or what might have happened, what I want
to know is did you hear any moaning or groaning from
Mr. Chasse when the paramedics were treating him?
MR. STEENSON: Objection, argumentative. Go
ahead.
THE WITNESS: I did not hear low tones
including moaning. I heard high tones.
Q. (By Ms. Back) High-pitched like screams?
A. Yeah. I heard words that were delivered at
a high amp and a high pitch.
Q. What words did you hear?
A. Throughout the event no, no, no, not on my
stomach, mercy, etcetera, etcetera.

(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
112
Q. And during the time that the AMR paramedics

were there, what words did you hear?
A. No words from him, except when he reawakened
and asked her please don't go.
Q. Okay. Do you remember, did he -- did he
struggle when the paramedics were with him?
A. He was -- he was bound. I mean, he was
incapacitated and - -
Q. Did you observe or hear any conversation
between the paramedics and the police to try and
unbind him?
A. No.
Q. And when the paramedics were there, what
specific movements do you remember seeing from
Mr. Chasse?
A. He was quite contained at that point. He
only began to wiggle again and move his body after he
reawoke.
Q. Now, I want you to try and set aside what
you observed with the struggle that occurred to
restrain Mr. Chasse and if you were arriving on scene
as a paramedic. With that in mind, did you observe or
- - did you observe Mr. Chasse do or say anything that
would make someone who hadn't witnessed the struggle

think that there were any serious injuries to

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113
Mr. Chasse?
MR. STEENSON: Objection, argumentative,
vague.
THE WITNESS: I don't know how to be a
medic.
Q. (By Ms. Back) Yeah. The question is if --
for someone who's arriving at the scene and not having

witnessed the struggle, what, in your - - what
observations would they - - would -- from that point on
and from, you know, from you observing it, what
observations would there be of serious injury to
Mr. Chasse?
MR. STEENSON: Same objections. Go ahead.
Q. (By Ms. Back) Answer it if you can. If you
can't, that's - -
A. I mean, my experience is my experience, not
a different experience.
Q. Okay. And so along those lines, did you
hear him complain of pain when the paramedics were
there?
A. No, I did not hear words about pain.
Q. Did you observe him to favor any - - any of
the -- any part of his body?
A. No. He was quite down for the count in a
fetal position.

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114
1 Q. And even in the time when he reawoke and
2 started wiggling after they were trying to do that one
3 test on him, did you observe him trying to favor any
4 part of his body?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Do you remember seeing the paramedics take
7 his pulse?
8 A. Right at the get-go I think she -- she was
9 definitely attending to the arm in some fashion before
10 he went unconscious.
11 Q. Do you remember seeing the paramedics take
12 his blood pressure?
13 A. My memory's unclear about that. I - - I feel
14 that the way one sees someone unwrap a cuff, you know,
15 a cuff, and that's in one's mind.
16 Q. Did you observe the female paramedic hand
17 the police officer a piece of paper at any point in
18 time towards the end of the scene?
19 A. Not in my memory.
20 Q. So you heard no conversation or saw nothing
21 about that?
A. I saw a kind of closing conversation.
Q. And did you hear any words that --
A. NO.
Q. Okay.

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115
A. I do apologize. May I run to the men's room
again?
Q. Sure.
Take a break.
(Recess: 1:31 to 1:34 PM.)
Q. (By Ms. Back) Thanks so much for being
patient with us.
I know you made - - you made a complaint or
felt that you wanted to make a complaint about the
incident that you saw. Did you make any sort of
similar complaint with respect to the medical care
that was provided?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Do you have any reason to feel that you - -
Mr. Chasse wasn't provided with medical care at the
scene?
A. Well, would you reask the question for me?
Q. Do you have any reason to believe that
Mr. Chasse wasn't provided with medical care at the
scene?
A. Yes, I have reason to believe that.
Q. Okay. Can you tell me what those reasons
are?
A. Sensing that a - - he was taken away strongly
beaten and bleeding, not with the people in the

(360) 695-5554 * * (503) 223-4040
116
1 ambulance.
2 Q. Okay. I have no more questions.
3 MR. STEENSON: No questions.
4 MR. RICE: Okay. Thank you for coming down
5 here.
6 MS. DUNAWAY: Thank you.
7 THE WITNESS: That's it?
8 MR. RICE: That's it.
9 (The deposition concluded at 1:35 PM.)
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(360) 695-5554 ** (503) 223-4040
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2 STATE OF WASHINGTON )
) ss.
3 COUNTY OF CLARK )
4 I, Shannon K. Krska, a Certified Shorthand

5 Reporter for Oregon, do hereby certify that, pursuant
6 to stipulation of counsel for the respective parties
7 hereinbefore set forth, RANDALL STUART personally
8 appeared before me at the time and place set forth in
9 the caption hereof; that at said time and place I
10 reported in Stenotype all testimony adduced and other
11 oral proceedings had in the foregoing matter; that
12 thereafter my notes were reduced to typewriting under
13 my direction; and that the foregoing transcript, pages
14 3 to 116, both inclusive, constitutes a full, true and
15 accurate record of all such testimony adduced and oral

16 proceedings had, and of the whole thereof
17 Witness my,hand and CSR stamp at Vancouver,
18 Washington, this 30th day of July, 2008.
19
20
21 Shannon K. Krska
Certified Shorthand Reporter

Oregon CSR No. 90-0216

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF OREGON

and AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE )

July 14, 2008

For the Defendants MESSRS . JAMES RICE and

For the Defendants MS. SUSAN DUNAWAY

Also Present: David Anderson

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

PORTLAND, OREGON; MONDAY, JULY 14, 2008

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

7 Would you tell us what your full name is,

20 Q. And how tall are you?

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Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

Q. Have you had any training in psychology?

Schrnitt & ~ehmann,Inc.

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event, I'm not exactly sure.

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what you dealt with or observed.

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issues in his case, hearing voices, not tracking or

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summation of - - Lynn Courtney's summation of that

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~chmitt& Lehmann, Inc.

Schmitt & Lehrnann, Inc.

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A. Not that I was aware of at that moment.

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1 I'm going to get to that. I'm wondering as he's

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are in contact with the backpack.

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happen too quick?

Q. And let me stop you. Was his body on the

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you observed people getting up. Did that happen

Schmitt & Lehmann, Inc.

A. That segment would be 45 seconds.

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A. - - that all three.

Q. And when they start pushing him down, does

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Q. Did you understand how they operate?

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18 Q. Let me ask you: Do you know how long the

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including that happening.