CP-60M Pickups Repair

Problems with my Yamaha CP-60M --*PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
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Problems with my Yamaha CP-60M --*PROBLEM SOLVED!!!*--
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(Read 9402 times) Problems with my Yamaha CP-

ptpt88
60M --*PROBLEM SOLVED!!!*--
Fiesta Red
on: November 30, 2008, 05:14:42 AM

Posts: 19
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=4773.0 Page 1 of 15
Problems with my Yamaha CP-60M --*PROBLEM SOLVED!!!*-- 9/10/17 9:39 AM
I have bought now one of the rarest and the most compact CP pianos; CP-60M
. However, this was not used for years... it was just laying in some dusty
storage with terrible smell of smoke... but well, otherwise the condition is almost
perfect naturally because this was not banged up with tours and traveling...
After I got it, the first thing I noticed it was of course very out of tune because of
years of unuse and there is a few other things I was already expecting from old
unused acoustic piano which are purely mechanical problems and can be fixed
pretty easily. The power source was also missing but I managed to build up my
own.
After I got the power on, first thing I noticed was unexpected disappointment
because the tremolo was NOT panning stereo like in Eletric Grand models ... is
it true or is it just somehow broken??? I just loved so much hearing the CP-70
and -80 models where the tremolo was so awesome stereo effect. I am wondering
because still this CP-60M does have 2 audio channels like it would be stereo???
:roll:
But the real problem is that the upper registers are really silent when listening the
output. it seems like there would be some problems with it's pick-ups because I
noticed the the difference starts exactly in same position where the third (when
counting them from left to the righ) pick-up starts. I mean the last hearable note
is the last one with the second pick-up and the next unhearable note is the first of
in third pick-up.
However I have checked that the electricity is working on them and there is no
any point where would be bad solderings. I can hear pick-ups when touching them
with my hand. So what is the problem? I mean I can hear the notes but the
volume difference is huge! I can barely hear those silent parts and mostly they
contain just noise. And I mean there is no any parts working and parts not
working, but there is the point I mentioned that the whole left side is fully working
and the whole right side is barely hearable with noise. I have checked and
watched and examined but there is no anything visible to notice and the strings
are in correctly positioned on the pick-ups that they should work.
:cry:
So I need help because I am not really expert with these things as I presume that
the problem could be in electronic side.
Logged
"Music, for me, is not just about notes. It is about everything. Music exists before we exist.
It is the shaper of the universe. It is the universe itself. It is the primary vibration, the first
thing that moves everything else. Everybody understands the language of music, whether
they are composer or not... it is part of us. It is deep in our memory.
I compose spontaneously. I try to capture the music without the influence of reasoning or
the possibility of alteration. The only way to achieve this is not to think. Thought is a tool of
analysis. It cannot be a tool of creation. ... When the music comes raw like this, it is closer
to the truth of the moment." -- Vangelis
--------
Gear:
Yamaha CP-60M, Yamaha CS-40M, Yamaha EX-5R, Roland RS-505 Paraphonic, Roland JD-
990, Roland SH-09, Generalmusic S3 Turbo.
muzik87 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Fiesta Red
Reply #1 on: December 17, 2008,
03:09:56 PM
Posts: 14
Hey!!
Did you end up figuring this out? I have the EXACT same problem with mine after
I bought it. I've always been playing it acoustic for now as I find it loud enough
for practice, but I would definitely like to be able to plug it in too!
Logged
ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Fiesta Red
12:09:51 AM
Posts: 19
No, I didn't...
I presume now that the problem is either in the amp section of electronics (inside
the keyboard), or there is bad connection or unworking soldering in the pick-up
wire (the silent part starts exactly when the third pickup starts. Last note in the
second pick-up works, but the first note of third pick-up is very silent as the rest
of upper keys as well). And the problem is that the wire is really INSIDE the
pickup and so I cannot test it... any way to open that glass-like tube?
This problem seems to be pretty common with cp-60m???

Logged
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Gear:

Fiesta Red
08:37:09 AM
Posts: 14
I have seen other posts online before about this problem, none with a solution
really. I think I'm just like you, the last note of the second pickup works put as
soon as i click the note starting the third pickup it stops working. In fact its
doesn't work starting from the first A above Middle C. I don't know if there is any
direct way of going checking the pickups since the strings are sitting directly on
them... You know if we can remove the back panel? There's two screws in the
back, i moved them but the panel still stays there, maybe it could be easier to
check from the back...
Logged
pianotuner steveo Problems with my Yamaha CP-

MIDI Mark V
08:43:46 AM
I know NOTHING about this specific model, but as with any stringed piano, BE
CAREFUL with what you take apart in the area of the strings-there is high tension
on the strings, and if you remove the wrong screws, it can implode!
Also, just for general knowledge, NEVER touch piano bass strings with your bare
hands, the oils from your fingers will kill the tone. (not immediately)
Posts: 2952
Logged
A keyboard player in love
with vintage guitars!!!
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2000 Yamaha acoustic piano
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
....and a few guitars...

Fiesta Red
09:14:35 AM
Posts: 19
Quote from: "muzik87"
I have seen other posts online before about this problem, none with a solution really. I think
I'm just like you, the last note of the second pickup works put as soon as i click the note
starting the third pickup it stops working. In fact its doesn't work starting from the first A
above Middle C. I don't know if there is any direct way of going checking the pickups since
the strings are sitting directly on them... You know if we can remove the back panel?
There's two screws in the back, i moved them but the panel still stays there, maybe it could
be easier to check from the back...
The back panel can easily removed. you need to unscrew the screws in the both
sides too. Just left one screw in both sides which holds the handles. There is
totally 8 screws which you need to remove, 2 in the back panel and 3 screws in
both sides of the panel. Just remember to keep handles open, otherwise you
cannot take the panel away. But that does not solve this problem in anyway.
Logged
--------
Gear:

Fiesta Red
11:29:52 AM
Posts: 14
I wanted to see if the wires were soldered on right, it was easier to do this by
removing the back panel. And just like you, it seems that the problem is inside
the piezo system. The only possible way I can see to have access to them is to
bring it to a tech, since you would have to lossen all the strings in order to
remove the pickup and I do not have any piano tuning equipment. Hopefully
there is still techs out there able to fix this, or hopefully this is fixable!
Logged
Spaceduck Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Mark I
06:22:57 AM
Quote from: "pianotuner steveo"
I know NOTHING about this specific model, but as with any stringed piano, BE CAREFUL with
what you take apart in the area of the strings-there is high tension on the strings, and if you
remove the wrong screws, it can implode!
Posts: 150 Also, just for general knowledge, NEVER touch piano bass strings with your bare hands, the
oils from your fingers will kill the tone. (not immediately)
Thanks for this info steveo, do you recommend any cleaning/maintenance

procedure for CP strings? I just noticed how ridiculously expensive they are... I
paid less for my entire piano than most outfits charge for a half dozen strings. I've
been playing a lot softer lately :?
Logged

MIDI Mark V
11:01:01 AM
No! Never try to clean piano strings-especially the copper wound bass strings, and
you should never touch the bass strings with your bare hands,either.You can
gently wipe the plain steel strings with a dry cloth if you must, but do not use any
cleaning solvents or any other liquid of any kind on or near the strings.(If certain
liquids were to get around the tuning pin, (IE oil)it can loosen the pin making it
impossible to tune)
Posts: 2952
A keyboard player in love The oils from your fingers can kill the tone of bass strings.Also, there is a lot of
with vintage guitars!!! tension on piano strings, they can be dangerous if they break. People have been
killed by them-no joke.
If you are worried about breaking strings, talk to a local piano tuner about
adjusting the let off. Increasing the let off (like escapement in a Rhodes) takes
some of the initial force or blow away from the string (the impact of the hammer),
therefore, reducing the chance of breakage.Breaking piano strings can happen,
but it is far less common than breaking Wurlitzer Reeds or Rhodes tines.
Logged
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP

2004 Hammond XK3
2009 Korg SV-1 73

Fiesta Red
12:54:58 PM
Posts: 14
Quote from: "Spaceduck"
Quote from: "pianotuner steveo"
I know NOTHING about this specific model, but as with any stringed piano, BE CAREFUL
with what you take apart in the area of the strings-there is high tension on the strings,
and if you remove the wrong screws, it can implode!
Also, just for general knowledge, NEVER touch piano bass strings with your bare hands,
the oils from your fingers will kill the tone. (not immediately)
Thanks for this info steveo, do you recommend any cleaning/maintenance procedure for CP
strings? I just noticed how ridiculously expensive they are... I paid less for my entire piano
than most outfits charge for a half dozen strings. I've been playing a lot softer lately :?
Yes good information indeed. If you touch the strings, in the end will it make
them sound dull? What else could happen touching the strigns? It is not
something I do, but i wonder if anyone before purchasing this piano did anything
of the sort...
By the way, you guys don't want to know how much I spend for mine I was
able to get it here in Canada from some guy in the city I live for 300$ CAD...
Literally! I didn't know that much of the specific model at the time when I bought
it since I just wanted a good piano that was carryable and "smaller" for my
appartment. After I bought it and made more research on the model, I figured I
could've easily have paid an extra thousand :| I must consider myself very
lucky... Now I just hope I can get this piezo problem fixed up, after the holidays!
Logged

MIDI Mark V
05:02:57 PM
Yes, touching the bass strings can make them dull and lifeless eventually.The oils
from your fingers (even if you think they are clean and dry) attract dust,dirt,etc
more quickly onto the strings. This doesnt really happen with the plain steel
strings,but really there is no reason to touch them normally.
Logged
Posts: 2952
A keyboard player in love

with vintage guitars!!! 1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 Korg SV-1 73

Fiesta Red
02:06:11 PM
Posts: 19
I found this note from yahoo CP piano group discussing about same CP-60M
pickup topic which made me wondering;
"I figured it out... decided to dive in a take a look. I removed the

rear panel and there it is... The pickup is mounted to the metal harp
frame and consists of several sections wired end to end. Just one
shielded cable exits from the bottom end (low string side).
The very top section was dead... no output. It's hard to describe but
some of the connections between the different sections of the pickup
are made with a small loop of shelded cable, and others are made with
the sections of pickup flush against each other... with those it
looks like the wire connections between sections are molded into the
lucite pickup housing.... very interesting...
Since the connection to the dead section on the high end was the
molded in type, there seems to be no way to repair it without
completely removing the strings that are sitting on top of it.
Just for the heck of it I took a flat blade screwdriver, placed it on

the edge of the pickup near the connection point and gave it a few
taps with a hammer.... problem solved! the high end section is
working again!!... Not how I like to fix things but it worked!"
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacp/message/356
Would that same tapping solve my problem? I am very terrified about doing that.
Isn't it possible that it could do some serious damage?
Logged
--------
Gear:

Fiesta Red
12:00:18 PM
Posts: 19
Hi. I have some great news!
I just wondered also this crackling and humming sound, so I touched each
soldering to hear any changes... I noticed that if I touched any of those soldered
spots, it caused everything sounding just normal!!!
But... it tooks only a few seconds until it goes back into more silent again. And i
mean my pickup was not dead at all... upper keys are just more silent than
lowers... so I again, as very relieved, presumed that there is just something
wrong with soldering.
And then... I spotted one particular soldered spot where... after some touching
and moving it... unlike others it didn't do that very terrible electric noise and huge
humming... I just hear "snap" sound and every noise and hum goes silent and
the volume is same normal with all keys!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But again it takes only about 2-5 seconds until it goes more silent again and hum
and noise starts too. It is very strange that why it doesn't matter what soldered
spot I touch, it makes every key sounding same... only this specific spot which is
in fact the last soldering in the very right, it just does not make every key normal,
but stops all noises too... I really hope re-soldering it would help and keep all
volume same.
Logged
--------
Gear:

Fiesta Red
02:57:57 AM
Posts: 19
update;
About the previous post, I would like to add that it does not go silent unless I
press keys too hard! I can play it with all upper keys sounding normally, but only
very softly... I can't play any song because I need to play all keys too softly for
anything.
I see it's really a ground problem. So resoldering would not help. Maybe there is
something part touching the circuit board and causing this disturb?
But damn it!!! damn damn damn damn.... I can open the keyboard but I just
cannot open and get access into circuit board because the wires are so thick and
tightly made and going all around that I just can't open it... I am pretty sure I
wouldn't be able to put it back....
God damn it... this problem makes me crazy! :evil:
I would like to sell this away and replace it with Nord Electro, but still this is
something I have been wished to own for many years so I just can't sell it away...
I love it too much... the sound of the acoustic mechanic and the piano it'self is
just something which you just cannot replace with anything digital... and after all
there is nothing broken and in fact pickup is working fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is so crazy problem that it makes me mad! :evil:

I am so hopeless and helpless...
Logged
--------
Gear:

Fiesta Red
Reply #14 on: January 07, 2009,
02:53:39 AM
Posts: 19
(Sorry for multiposts...)
HI!
I have now something AWESOME NEWS!!!
I did exactly as the "article" above says. I took very small flat blade screwdriver
and put it to the connection point between the pickups and tapped it a few times
and it worked!!!
Now all pickups are hearable! However it did again gone into silent after some
time BUT at least now I can play it fully without caring about hard notes! I am not
sure how long this would stay... maybe an hour, maybe week or maybe year!!!
But I can still get it right after tapping it again!
I see that there is 2 wires inside the pickup connection and if both are badly
connected then it will make upper keys silent as dead, but in my case only 1 wire
was badly connected so I could hear all upper keys but half the volume... also it
made huge white noise and humming which all disappeared after I tapped the
middle spot between pickups!
I am now really super happy !!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
THE PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
It seems that this pickup connection where pickup is attached to next pickup is
not soldered but "pressed connection". So now I am very sure that this problem is
indeed very common... no, in fact it is "normal" issue among the CP-60M pianos
because the pressed connection gets loose after 20 years.
Logged
--------
Gear:

Fiesta Red
09:23:48 AM
Posts: 14
wow that's just good news! I will have to open it up tonight and have a look at it.
If I can fix this and spare a technician to repair this, that would be awesome!
Logged

Fiesta Red
02:44:38 PM
Posts: 19
Quote from: "muzik87"
wow that's just good news! I will have to open it up tonight and have a look at it. If I can
fix this and spare a technician to repair this, that would be awesome!
Update again;
This was not finally over... after tapping it holded all sound ok only from 10
seconds to max even 2 days... but eventually it always gone into same half
volume, and this lead into madness... tapping all the time until the connection is
broken down :!:
So now I believe I made the final decision... at least I hope so!!!
I noticed that the problem was in the pickup which was about 1 millimeter too
much right to the frame of the next pickup and so obviously the connection is not
proper, so when I pressed it from the right side to he left, it went back 1
millimeter to the right and was then OK, but only after a few key hit it moved
back to half volume again, so... it doesn't need to move more than half millimeter
to be enough for bad connection... :shock:
I removed one string which was on 2 keys and was in the way of the connection
spot... I never believed I even could do it by myself... but I had no choice... I
carefully removed the string (which was halved for 2 strings for 1 key) and then I
put a thick metal nut into between the pickup and metal frame and now it will
keep the connetion point still so I wouldn't need to solder it because that's very
very hard to do as the connection spot wasn't obviously meant for soldering at all.
But man, what a job!! 5 hours just to remove only 1 string and put it back!!! it
was very messy... the string bended into all unwanted places into the mechanics
of hammers and carefully needed to pick it off... and it almost ruined one very
soft sponged string holder!
here's the pic what I did;
and here's the same pic but I explained the parts of it;
You see, big difference from cp-70's pickup blocks! if some block goes slilent it
won't affect to others, but in here cp-60m as the pickup is in large sections, bad
connection will affect to several keys. The pickups are divided for 7 section which
are paired with this pressed connection and these pairs are then soldered with
wires together. Pair 1, the pickup 1 and 2 are the bass and lower keys, pair 2,
pickup 3 and 4 are the middle and higher and rest 3 are the highest keys. There is
totally 4 pressed connections which are not soldered but just pressed together so
obviously after 20 years these will get loose sooner than unlikely soldered spots.
and here's closeup pic of the nut too;
Logged
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Gear:

Fiesta Red
06:08:59 PM
Posts: 14
thanks a bunch for those pics! I was able to figure out where I had my problem
aswell. In fact, it is exactly at the same spot, but I don't know if I will want to
adventure myself to add that nut right now. In fact, it seemed to work
(momentarily, could be couple of mins, hrs...) if I "pushed" the pickup in,
meaning, in the opposite direction where the nut would be acting. I may try to
figure something out to get that working, perhaps a clamp of some sort might just
do the trick...
Logged

Fiesta Red
Reply #18 on: February 03, 2009,
12:27:25 AM
Posts: 19
Update again;
Still I need regulary to adjust pickups to get them correctly in position, but at
least it will hold them even if I hit notes very hard!
And if it does not hold, I can always hit some sort of spline to the beneath of the
nut, like for example, tiny flat blade screwdriver and then it will hold it properly. I
can now use my piano seriously at any time when really needed!!!
Logged
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Gear:
Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Spaceduck
Mark I Reply #19 on: February 10, 2009,
10:58:25 AM
Congrats, ptp! Have you been following the Yamaha CP usergroup? There's an
ongoing discussion about some CP60 issues. Most of it goes over my head, but
since it looks like you know your stuff, you might pick up some good pointers.
They're also talking about the difference in action between the CP60 & CP70 and
how to adjust the 60 to make it like the 70 (less "sticky" they say).
Posts: 150
One question about the 60... is it possible to remove the entire back? How cool
would that be to play a gig with the harp completely exposed, like in your pics but
for the audience.
Logged

Fiesta Red
12:21:32 PM
Posts: 19
Congrats, ptp! Have you been following the Yamaha CP usergroup? There's an ongoing
discussion about some CP60 issues. Most of it goes over my head, but since it looks like you
know your stuff, you might pick up some good pointers. They're also talking about the
difference in action between the CP60 & CP70 and how to adjust the 60 to make it like the
70 (less "sticky" they say).
One question about the 60... is it possible to remove the entire back? How cool would that be
to play a gig with the harp completely exposed, like in your pics but for the audience.
Yes, of course it is possible! Didn't it told it already in previous posts??? I have

removed back panel in the pic! Only the both opponent sides are not possible to
remove without removing the power source, outputs and it is also attached to the
frame too.
"The back panel can easily removed. you need to unscrew the screws in the both
sides too. Just left one screw in both sides which holds the handles. There is
totally 8 screws which you need to remove, 2 in the back panel and 3 screws in
both sides of the panel. Just remember to keep handles open, otherwise you
cannot take the panel away."
and yes I am the member of this yahoo group. I will see the topics later...
Logged
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Gear:
Spaceduck Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Mark I
04:49:34 PM
No, you misunderstood or I didn't explain fully... I was wondering if you could
remove the back in addition to the front as you've done in the pic. The idea is to
let the audience see "through" the piano. But from your last post it sounds like at
least one panel must remain. If so, unfortunately you can't do what I was talking
about.
Posts: 150 Logged
ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-60M --

*PROBLEM SOLVED!!!*--
Fiesta Red
12:01:57 AM
Posts: 19
No, you misunderstood or I didn't explain fully... I was wondering if you could remove the
back in addition to the front as you've done in the pic. The idea is to let the audience see
"through" the piano. But from your last post it sounds like at least one panel must remain. If
so, unfortunately you can't do what I was talking about.
No, you are wrong, it is truely possible, you can remove all panels except the
sides. But to be able to remove the panel which stores the keyboard, you need to
unscrew it but that's it. the audience can clearly see you and piano's frame and
strings and the side panels does not matter.
Logged
--------
Gear:
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Problems with my Yamaha CP-60M --*PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

*-- 9/10/17 9:39 AM

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Author Topic: Problems with my Yamaha CP-60M --*PROBLEM SOLVED!!!*--

(Read 9402 times) Problems with my Yamaha CP-

muzik87 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

This problem seems to be pretty common with cp-60m???

muzik87 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

pianotuner steveo Problems with my Yamaha CP-

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

muzik87 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Spaceduck Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Quote from: "pianotuner steveo"

Thanks for this info steveo, do you recommend any cleaning/maintenance

pianotuner steveo Problems with my Yamaha CP-

1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP

muzik87 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Quote from: "pianotuner steveo"

pianotuner steveo Problems with my Yamaha CP-

A keyboard player in love

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

"I figured it out... decided to dive in a take a look. I removed the

Just for the heck of it I took a flat blade screwdriver, placed it on

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

God damn it... this problem makes me crazy! :evil:

this is so crazy problem that it makes me mad! :evil:

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

(Sorry for multiposts...)

I have now something AWESOME NEWS!!!

I am now really super happy !!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

THE PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

muzik87 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

So now I believe I made the final decision... at least I hope so!!!

here's the pic what I did;

and here's closeup pic of the nut too;

muzik87 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Problems with my Yamaha CP-

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-

Yes, of course it is possible! Didn't it told it already in previous posts??? I have

Spaceduck Problems with my Yamaha CP-

ptpt88 Problems with my Yamaha CP-60M --

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Author Topic: Problems with my Yamaha CP-60M --PROBLEM SOLVED!!!--