WES MONTGOMERY INTERVIEW Interview by Ralph J Gleason first published in Guitar Player Magazine in 5/09/10 05:25

WES MONTGOMERY INTERVIEW

Interview by
Ralph J Gleason
first published in
Guitar Player Magazine
in 1973

The first time I heard Wes Montgomery play, it was like being hit by a
bolt of lightening. Once he hit the guitar strings with his thumb, you
could feel it in your gut anywhere within the reach of sound. I heard a
lot about Wes Montgomery before I ever saw him. His two brothers, Buddy
and Monk, were in a group in San Francisco called the Mastersounds, and
they kept saying, “Wait, wait until you hear Wes!” and they sure were
right!

Wes came out to San Francisco and played with them on Sunday afternoon at
the Jazz Workshop, and that was it. The club couldn’t wait to have him
back. Eventually, Wes moved to the Bay Area and played with his brothers.
He also worked a long engagement with John Coltrane and Eric Dolphy at the
Jazz Workshop, plus an appearance with them at the Monterey Jazz Festival,
and then formed his own group.

For a while before he went out on his own, Wes lived up the street from me
in Berkeley. It was a bizarre kind of feeling to look out the window in
the middle of the day and see the world’s greatest guitar player wandering
down the street, but there he was. I got to know Wes a little (who ever
knows anybody?) in those days, as he and I and his brothers put our heads
together day after day trying to get the Montgomery Brothers, as a group,
off and running. Despite Wes’ genius that never did happen. He had to go
out on his own to do that.

The interview which follows was done when he began to record under his own
name, and it disclosed something to me of which I had not been aware: Wes
was,actually very insecure about his own playing and very worried that
when it came his turn to solo night after night, he wouldn’t be able to
consistently maintain the standard he wanted. Ile really didn’t think he
was good enough to play with John Coltrane and when he was offered a job
by ‘Trane (What a group that would have been!). It wasn’t just the money,
it was the fact that he couldn’t think of himself as the leader in his
field. He was always saying that he had played much better fifteen years
before.

And of course, he never got the sound he wanted out of any amplifier, and
spent thousands of dollars hassling with electronics. I don’t believe that
in his whole professional life he ever really got the kind of sound on
stage that would have made him happy. The Fender people and everybody else
must have been dpi ven crazy.

It was easy to talk to Wes, but not when he saw a microphone. I deeply

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WES MONTGOMERY INTERVIEW Interview by Ralph J Gleason first published in Guitar Player Magazine in 5/09/10 05:25

regret not succumbing to my original idea which was to bug my living room
so I could tape him without him knowing that his words were being
recorded. I never got around to doing it; just one of those things.
There was one time when he was playing in a club on Broadway in San
Francisco, Barney Kessel was playing in another and Bola Sete was playing
in a third. Each one of them had the other two guitar players in the
audience for every show! I think they scheduled the sets to allow for it.
And every guitar player in Northern California who wasn’t working was busy
running from one to another of those clubs all night long.

I took a young guitar player who was also a journalist with me .one night
to hear all three of them, his name was Jann Wenner [Rolling Stone’s
editor]. I don’t think he’s picked up a guitar since. In. any case, he has
never mentioned it to me!

Wes never took a lesson in his life. He thought all kinds of guitar
players were better than he was, but the truth of the matter is that he
will be remembered long, long after the other names are lost in the mists
of history.

RJG

How long have you been playing guitar?

I started in ‘43 when I was 19, right after I got married. I bought me an
amplifier and guitar two or three months later. I used to play tenor
[guitar], but it wasn’t really playing. I’ve really gone into business
since I got the 6 string, which was like starting all over.

How did you get interested in playing guitar?

Charlie Christian, like all other guitar players. There was no way out.
That cat tore everybody’s head up. I never saw him in my life, but he said
so much on records. I don’t care what instrument a cat played, if he
didn’t understand and feel the things Charlie Christian was doing, he was
a pretty poor musician.

Did you hear any guitar players before him?

Reinhardt and Les Paul, those cats, but it wasn’t anything you could call
new, just guitar.

What was the first Charlie Christian record you heard?

“Solo Flight.” Boy, that was too much! I still hear it. He was it for me.
I didn’t hear nobody else after that for about a year.

You taught yourself guitar?

Yeah. Charlie Christian's records. I listened to them real good, and I

knew that everything done on his guitar could be done on mine, because I
had a 6 string, so I just determined that I would do it. About six or
eight months after I started playing I had taken all the solos off the
record and got a job in a club just playing them. I'd play Charlie
Christian's solos, then lay out. Then a cat heard me and hired me for the
Club 440 (Indianapolis). I went on the stand and played the solos. The
guys in the band helped me a lot about different tunes, intros, endings
and things that they had. They wired me up on all those, but after that,
that was it.

You worked around Indianapolis from then on?

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WES MONTGOMERY INTERVIEW Interview by Ralph J Gleason first published in Guitar Player Magazine in 5/09/10 05:25

Well, I got pretty good and went on the road with a group. We starved. At
that time I didn't realize that you'd work one gig in Kansas City, the
next in Florida and the next gig will be in Louisville. You know, a
thousand miles a night. That was really rough, man.

Did you go out with other bands?

Hamp (Lionel Hampton) was the only big band I went with, '48 '50.

While you were running around the country with Damp, did you hear any
other guitarists you were interested in?

To me, all guitar players can play, because I know they're getting to
where they're at. But, like one guy will come up like Tal Farlow. Tal came
on. the scene poppin' and burnin'. Well, instead of other guys getting
their thing closed, they'd jump on Tal Farlow. Now, he can carry them for
a long time, but when they get through they haven't done a thing by
themselves. It's such a hard instrument that somebody has got to get
things out for them to go by, evidently, because it's hard to get
something on your own. It's a very hard instrument to accept, because it
takes years to start working with it, that's first, and it looks like
everybody else is moving on the instrument but you. Then when you find a
cat that's really playing, you always find that he's been playing a long
time, you can't get around it.

What do you want to do with the guitar, where do you want to go with it?

I've thought about it, but I'm so limited Like playing octaves was just a
coincidence. And it's still such a challenge, like chord versions, block
chords like cats play on piano. There are a lot of things that can be done
with it, but each is a field of its own, and like I said it takes so much
time to develop all your technique. Say if you wanted to play a chord like
you would a melodic phrase, there's no telling how long it would take you
to do it. I used to have headaches everytime I played octaves, because it
was extra strain, but the minute I'd quit I'd be all right. I don't know
why, but it was my way, and my way just backfired on me. But now I don't
have headaches when I play octaves. I'm just showing you how a strain can
capture a cat and almost choke him, but after a while it starts to ease up
because you get used to it.

You don't use a pick, do you?

No. That's one of my downfalls, too. In order to get a certain amount of

speed you should use a pick, I think. A lot of cats say you don't have to
play fast, but being able to play fast can cause you to phrase better. But
I just didn't like the sound. I tried it for about two months. Didn't use
the thumb at all. But after two months I.still couldn't use the pick, so I
said I'd go ahead and use the thumb. But then I couldn't use the thumb
either, so I asked myself which are you going to use? I liked the tone
better with the thumb, but the technique better with the pick, but I
couldn't have them both.

Did you ever run into any of the classical guitar players, like Segovia?

No, and I don't want to, because these cats will scare you. It doesn't
make​any difference that they're playing classic, but there's so much
guitar. Like if you hear a classical guitar player, he'll make you feel
like "What're you playing the thing you're playing for? This is what you
should be playing." He might make you want to back up, and I don't think
anyone should try to get to you. But I imagine I'd be the same way with a

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WES MONTGOMERY INTERVIEW Interview by Ralph J Gleason first published in Guitar Player Magazine in 5/09/10 05:25

classical guitar player. But if a jazz player is really playing, the

classical player will have to respect him.

Is playing the guitar still kicks for you?

Yes, it is. But now I don't have the drive I used to. Like the time I was
with Hamp, that was the time I had the best feeling of "getting in," of
bringing it right out, because it was right under my hand, but I didn't
pay it any mind. You could be fooling with the thing, and nobody is doing
it, but you're not either, and you've got it right under your hand. That's
the way I was. Later on, a thousand people said, "Why don't you try
finishing it?" Well, I said, "I'll be darned." Iike I'm 38 now.

If you had to name a half dozen of your favorite guitarists, who would
they be?

Barney Kessel is one. He's got a lot of feeling, he's got a good
conception of chords in a jazz manner. And he's trying to play a little
flamenco. He's trying to do a lot of things, not just standing still at
one particular level. He's trying to get away from the guitar phrase, to
get into the horn phrase. Tal Farlow strikes me as a different cat
altogether. To rime, he doesn't have as much feeling as Barney Kessel, but
he's got mare drive in his playing, and his technique along with his drive
is pretty exciting. And he's got a better conception of modern chords than
the average guitar player. Sometimes he gets kind of sloppy like a lot of
guitar players, that's why a lot of cats have put him down. But I guess
nobody has it all, but he's got a lot of drive, though, and he's so fast.
Now, Jimmy Raney is just the opposite of Tal Farlow. It seems like they
have the same ideas, the same changes, the same type runs, the same kind
of feeling, but Jimmy Raney is so smooth he does it without a mistake, a
real soft touch, it's the touch he's got. Django Reinhardt, naturally,
he's in a different thing altogether. To me, a lot of guitar players don't
go to a particular place, they just sit down and play a whole lot of
guitar, and Reinhardt is one of those kind of cats. And I think Charlie
Byrd is also a new cat on the scene that is trying to make the switch,
trying to get into both bags at the same time, and he's got a lot of
recognition from it, but it's a hard thing to do. I think that's why he
came in like he did, because of a little flamenco and jazz vein along with
unamplified guitar.

Would it suit your temperament to sit there like Freddie Green (with Count
Basie) and not take solos?

It would be all right, but I don't know that many chords. I'd be loaded if
I knew that many. I'd probably go join a band and just play rhythm, man,
'cause he's not just playing chords, he's playing a tot of chords. But,
that's not my aim. My aim is to move from one vein to the other without
any trouble. Like, if you're going to take a melody line or a counterpoint
or unison line with another instrument, do that, then maybe drop out at a
certain point, then maybe next time you'll play phrases and chords, or
maybe you'll take an octave or something. That way you'll have a lot of
variations there. The only difference is if you can control each one of
them. Still, the biggest thing to me is keeping a feeling, regardless what
you play. So many cats lose their feeling at various times, not through
the whole tune, but at various times, and it causes them to have to build
up and drop down, and you can feel it.

Why are there so few guitar players today?

I think it's like, the average person thinks he wants to play guitar, then
he goes as far as, "I think I'll buy me a ten or twelve dollar guitar and

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WES MONTGOMERY INTERVIEW Interview by Ralph J Gleason first published in Guitar Player Magazine in 5/09/10 05:25

mess around to see if I like it." Then they find out, after maybe the
first week or two, their fingers feel like pins are sticking into them,
but they can't stop, because once they stop it'll heal up. I think a lot
of people don't realize that it's just crises you've got to go through. I
think another reason is when they think about playing guitar they pick it
up and feel they should automatically play what they are thinking. Then a
guy thinks he'll go get himself a teacher, and the teacher has to do
everything, and they won't try to do anything for themselves. But they are
the one who has to learn guitar, because a teacher can only show you so
much. You have melodic lines and chords, and you have the neck before you
can do either one. It takes a long time, and you have to think ahead to
your limits before you can do anything. Then you've got to figure if you
want to slur up to a note, then you've got to come back so you've got to
know where you're going. These things play so big of a part that you get
discouraged when nothing happens.

It's like playing pool, isn't it?

Well of course I'm a pretty sharp pool player, but the guitar is just a
hard instrument. A cat will listen to a guy that is playing and think he
can do that, but he won't study on how long that cat's been playing. Then
he gets discouraged because he can't even get two notes out. Then he says
he'll struggle with it himself, and maybe he'll find out in six months
that he still can't make a line, then he feels like he's a dumb cat. But
when you find guitar players that are playing, you'll find out that at one
time they never cared if they never played, they were going to keep on
until they did. After a period of time the beginning player will hear a
little difference in his playing, and that little inspiration is enough to
go further, and the first thing you know you won't back out. The biggest
problem is getting started. Then later everytime you hear guitar players
everybody plays more than you. And those things are not very
inspirational, they're pretty discomforting. And then somebody says, "Why
don't you put that thing down, you're not doing anything with it." Well,
that's no help. And you'll find more people against you than for you,
until you get started. Then you'll find more with you than against you.

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