SL IV S/R-1

Time: 12:43 CDT 85:17:43 GMT

2/8/74

PAO 1:44 central daylight time. This is

post Skylab Control. CMG n_mber i test was performed about
an hour ago on the control $oment gyro number i aboard the
space station. And the indicators were that the wheel speed
did not come up. The currents applied to the field windings
on the gyro indicate that the wheel is still stationary.
They've shut the heaters off on CNG number 1 now. CMG number
2 continuing in a stressed mode. Commander Cart, aboard the
New Orleans, has finished his prellminary physical and he just
had family communication at 17:34 or 1:34 central time, with
his family. Pilot Pogue and Science Pilot Ed Gibson are
getting very close to the end of their initial physical.
Blood samples being drawn now, and they should be coming up
family call within the half hour. Wet11 let you know after
that happens. 1:45 central daylight time, this is Skylab
Control.

END OF TAPE
SL IV S/R-2
Time: 01:28 CDT 85:18:26 GMT
2/8/74

PAO This is Skylab Control. One hour and

26 minutes central daylight time. All three initial medical
examinations for the crewmembers of Skylab IV have been
completed. And Commander Jerry Cart indicated that they
all feel pretty darn good. He said they only had a feeling
of headiness and vertigo initially when they stepped out of
the command module. Science Pilot Ed Gibson echoed Cart's
remarks. He said, "I feel pretty good, and overall we all
feel pretty good." And Bill Pogue chimed in by saying the
same thing. We should have a medical report for you some-
time soon. That'll come from the medical officers here in
Houston. 1:27 central daylight time, this is Skylab Control.

END OF TAPE
SL-IV S/R-3/1
TIME: 02:44 CDT, 85:19:44 GMT
2/8/74

PAO Two hours and 44 minutes central

daylight time, this is Skylab Control. We've just received
word that there will be a medical review this evening around
i0 p.m. with Dr. Royce Hawkins, Medical Director for the
Skylab Program. Repeating that, there will be a medical
review briefing this evening in the briefin E room in Building 1,
with Dr. Royce Hawkins around I0 p.m. An exact time will
be announced later and we'll be hack with that when we get
it. 2:44 central daylight time, this is Skylab Control.

END OF TAPE
SL-IV S/R-4/1
TIME: 02:59 CDT, 85:19:09 GMT
2/8/74

PAO Three o' clock central daylight time.

We're about 30 minutes away from a replay of the video
of recovery. Video coming from the U.S.S. New Orleans, cameras
aboard ship. That's about 30 minutes away from now and
repeatinB an earlier announcememt, they'll be a medical
review with Dr. Royce Hawkins this evening about 10 p.m.,
we don't have a firm time on that yet but we'll he back
with you. And that'll be in the Buildin E 1 brlefln_ room,
that's tonight around i0 with Dr. Royce Hawkins. Thirty
minutes away from a replay of recovery video now. 3:01
central dayliEht time, this is Skylab Control.

END OF TAPE
¶.

SKYLAB NEWS CENTER

Houston, Texas

SL IV Skylab IV Post Recovery Briefing

Johnson Space Center
February 8, 1974
12:00 p.m. CDT

Participants:

Dr. James C. Fletcher, NASA Administrator

William C. Schneider, Skylab Program Director
Kenneth S. Kleinknecht, Skylab Program Manager, JSC
Leland F. Belew, Skylab Program Manager, MSFC
Phil Shaffer, Flight Director
Alan B. Shepard, Rear Adm., Chief,Astronaut Office, JSC
Dr. W. Royce Hawkins, Deputy Director for Medical Operations, JSC
Col. Alan R. Vette, Director, DOD Manned Space Flight Support Office
William J. O'Donnell, Public Affairs Officer

PC-129
SL-IV PCI29A/I
TIME: 12:00 CDT, 85:17:00 GMT
218174

FLETCHER Well I I would like to read something

from the - President Nixon to the astronauts before I begin.
This was just TWXed to the ship. "On behalf of the American
people, I'salute the third crew of Skylab astronauts on
your safe return to Earth and on your successful completion
of man's longest space journey. Your mission has brought
to an end one of the most scientifically productive endeavors
in the history of human exploration. Skylab now joins the
ranks of the Santa Maria, The H.M.S. Bagle, the Spirit of
Saint Lucas - Louis and the Eagle. Each of these great
vehicles has carried us beyond the comtemporary limits of
human knowledge into a new comprehension of our own possibilities
and a new definition of our own destiny. We welcome you home
and we salute you and all your predecessors who have launched
us on this _reat adventure." Signed Richard Nixon. This is
a most historic day and I don't need to tell you it has
_reat meaning for all of us. Naturally, those of us that
have been directly involved are terribly dissappointed that
because of no network coverage at splashdown, the world
could not share this experience with us. Everything that
we have done in the Skylab Program has been necessary for
future progress in space. And the Skylab experience has
confirmed that we are really on the right track in proceeding
to develop the Space Shuttle and its spacelab manned
module for use in the 1980's and 1990's. Skylab in all its
aspects has demonstrated that this nation is capable of
conducting broader and more useful benefical activities
in space that directly relate to our own planet Earth. It
has served us well as a true orbiting research facility.
And namely our astronauts to carry out a wide spectrum of
scientific engineering and biomedical studies. To appreciate
the broad capabilities of Skylab, we should take note of
President Nixon's landmark speech on this space exploration
which he made on March 7, 1970. In that speech, the President
stated that three purposes should guide our space program -
exploration, scientific knowledge, practical application.
Surprising as it may seem, Skylab and the Skylab men have
accomplished simultaneously all of these purposes. It was also
said that we must see our space elfort, not only as an adventure
of today but also as an investment in tomorrow. And that space
activities will be a part of our lives for the rest of time.
Skylab has shown the way. In a very real sense Skylab can
be considered a turning point, for while it was basically a
experimental space station, it nevertheless possessed many
qualities and ingredients that will characterize operational
missions for the future. It has moved the space program from
the realm of the spectacular into a new phase that can be
characterized possible as almost businesslike if not yet quite
SL-IV PCI29A/2
TIME: 12:00 CDT, 85:17:00 GMT
2/8/74

routine• Now even the splashdown portion of it was not exactly

a routine today. The investment in Skylab has contributed to an
orderly transition from the Apollo era, the 60's to the
space rather the shuttle spacelah era of the 1980's
and as continued U.S. leadership in man's space flight.
We have clearly - clearly demonstrated that man can perform
valuable services in Earth orbit as observers, scientist,
engineers and repairmen. Skylab has given us a wealth
of new information about the dynamic processes of the Sun
and how this effects all of us here on Earth. It's provided
new evidence of the value of Earth observations from space,
helped us defined the feasibility of making new products in
zero gravity, and has stimulated interest of international
cooperation in space. I must say 271 days is a long time,
but that's how long it's been from the first launch of the
Skylab orbital workshop• And to all of us it's a significant
step in the long term duration - long term flight in space.
All of these returns from our Skylab investments are impressive
and I should point out, the returns are not all in. We will
be hearing much more about what has been found in the months
ahead• Indeed, we will all be living with Skylab achievments
for a long - long -

END OF TAPE
o

SL-IV PCI29B/I
Time: 12:00 CDT 85:17:00 GMT
2/8/74

FLETCHER - we will be hearing much more about what

has been found in the months ahead. Indeed, we will all be
living with Skylab achievements for a long, long time. Thank
you very much.
PAO Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we have with
us today the Skylab team. Beginning from my right, William
C. Schneider, Director of the Skylab program. Next to him is
Kenneth S. Kleinknecht, Skylab Program Manager here at JSC,
Dr. Royce Hawkins, Deputy Director for Medical Operations,
JSC, Mr. Le!and Belew, Skylab Program Manager at the Marshall
Space Flight Center, Admiral Alan Shepard, Chief to the
Astronaut Officer here at JSC, Flight Director Phil Shaffer,
and on the far end, Colonel Alan Vette, DOD Manager for Manned
Spaceflight Operations. Bill, you want to open with a state-
ment?
SCHNEIDER Well, as you know, Skylab IV just had a
most successful completion of their mission after 84 days and
1 hour and 16 minutes, and Dr. Lowe told me we were 8 seconds
late in our splashdown. But that marked the completion of
what I consider the historical phase of Skylab after 271 days
of useful work in orbit. And now we begin the science phase
of Skylab. And for the next year next few years, I should
say, there'll be just as an intense effort - probably not as
visible to you folks_ but probably very meaningful examination
of all the data that we've brought back. And as we've said,
that's the pay-off of Skylab, that was the reason for Skylab,
and it has been successfully completed - our portion has been
completed. The Science phase has just begun. Let me take off
a few things that happened during Skylab IV in the area of
accomplishments. We had planned 30 EREP passes, and we ac-
hieved 39. In addition to that, we had about - we also had
planned 2 solar inertial passes, and we completed - we com-
pleted four. In the ATM, we had planned 350 hours of of
solar observation, we actually completed 338. The Comet
Kohoutek had 13 obs - separate observations by the ATM and
iii observations by the other instruments. We did all the
major medicals; and incidentally, we spent more hours on major
medicals in Skylab than we had on any previous mission. The
corollary, we batted a hundred percent, we had 28 planned
and we accomplished 28; same with the student experiments;
and the same with ETOs. We actually achieved exactly what
we had planned. In the ATM world, I understand the ATM scientists
are particularly pleased because during this mission, we were
able to catch a flare right from it's initial phase right on
through. All previous flares, we caught sometime during their
build-up or fall-down. This one we got the thing from birth
through death. Turning then to the entire proBram, which, of
SL-IV PCI29B/2
Time: 12:00 CDT 85:17:00 GMT
2/8/74

course, this also marks - Let me let me tick off a little

bit of statistics, and as I said, statistics are meaningful
only in this historical phase• As far as duration is concerned,
if you go back to what we had said we were going to do back
before the May 14, we'd planned on 241 - 240 days in orbit.
We actually accomplished 271. Of the m - that time we'd
we'd thought we'd be planned for 140 days, we actually did
172• In the science world - and incidentally, in - we did
something of -

END OF TAPE
• • °

SL-IV PC129C/I
Time: 12:00 CDT
2/8/74

SCHNEIDER - planned for 140 days, we actually did

172. In the science world, and incidentally we did something
unusual in our mission planning, something that is unusual for
us. We were not ultra conservative. We thought we were bein_
quite bold. We thought we were scheduling our premission
flight plans more fully than we expected to be able to accom-
plish. The ATM world, we planned on 565 hours and we got
755 hours. The medical world, we had planned 701 hours and we
got 822. EREP. we thought we would be lucky if we got 60
passes. We got 90 Z-local vertical passes plus ii solar
inertial passes, almost 60 percent more than we had in our
fondest dreams. Technical experiments, we had planned 264
hours, we got 294. Materials investigations, we had i0 of
them planned. We actually did 32 separate investigations.
Astro physics, we had 168 planned we actually did 412. Even
in the student investigations we had thought we'd get 44 of those
operations, we actually got 56. If you look at the percentages
they range anywheres from 320 percent of what we had planned
to well over i00 percent in the worst ones. So I can say
we certainly were able to - through the hard work of a great
number of people - achieve what more than we really had
expected. I received a great number of questions in the
last week asking me what I though the greatest achievement
of Skylab was. Skylab has been a multidiscipline facility.
And it's been a something different to each individual. Each
discipline, each scientist has looked upon Skylab as having
meaning in a different area. As far as Itm concerned Skylab's
greatest - greatest achievement was to prove beyond a doubt
that there is no limit in our space research that just like
anything else that America sets out to do, the limit is only
our resolve not our ability to do work, not the ability of
men to work and not our technical knowledge.
PAO Okay, we'll take questions.
QUERY Dr. Hawkins, what do you think of the
crew when your first quick information that you have, and
are you now willing with with the condition that they
appear to be in, to say anything about a one to two year mission?
HAWKINS Well, I'm elated with what Itve heard.
I wish that we could all seen this exit this from the
spacecraft on this certainly monumental occasion. But they
did sound great. Their voices were strong and by their own
admission they did feel good. You I think heard about as
much of the commentary that I did. But they were shakey, I
don't know that they appeared to or sound to be worse off than
what we saw with the Skylab III crew when they returned, if you
can remember how they looked. I would imagine that this crew
SL-IV PC129C/2
Time: 12:00 CDT
2/8/74

looks very - very similar. I'm delighted with the inital re -

medical reports that we have from - from the command module.
And I still reserve the right to answer the last question
until we've had a chance to look at some of the cellular
levels on the samples that we bring back.
QUERY Is this the first time that they have
recovered the apex cone, if they did; and what use would you
make of it?
SCHNEIDER I don't recall whether we recovered -
we did _et at least one apex cover in Apollo. We have no
plans to make any use of it. We didn't need it; it's - was
available and they recovered it. But we have no reason to
believe there is anything wrong with it, obviously people
will look at it.
QUERY Could you tell us some of the things
that you have done on this flight that will be useful on
the Space Shuttle. Some of the experiments that were planned
to _ive you information, and were there any -

END OF TAPE
. °

SL IV PC-129D/I
Time: 12:00 CDT
2/8/74

QUERY Could you tell us some of the things

that you have done on this flight that will be useful on
the space shuttle? Some of the experiments that were planned
to give you information, and were there any thay you planned
that would aid you on the ASTP?
SCHNEIDER Well we had a _reat deal of activity
go into what we would call habitability, and that will pro-
vide a great storehouse of knowledge of how to best build
a machine for the future, both shuttle and any space
station that might come on beyond. And from a ASTP stand-
point, why, we both use the command - the same command and
service module. I do believe they will probably use some
innovation of our flight planning practices, and we do have
a materials processing experiment. Lee, you might add to
that you can. We have a materials processing experiment
that follows on with the one we had. I must confess if I'm
a little vague about ASTP, it's because I haven't been looking
at what they've been doing for the past year.
BELEW Well, there is an experiment on ASTP that
follows the Skylab materials experiment. Actually there's
two. And we do feel that that will especially one of them
will be a step toward proving some technology that's needed.
It's - before we go all out for something on say shuttle. To
elaborate a little bit on your overall question; what we
really did gain in an overall system sense out of Skylab,
that will to apply to say, the shuttle, is the systems that
we functioned, the attitude control systems, power systems,
and the life support systems, and the coolant systems,
especially for experiments. They do span the spectrum that
I feel proves without a doubt the operability of it over
a long duration, that will be a direct feed in to shuttle,
and shuttle payloads. It's eliminated I think a great deal
of concern that one might have had we not had the Skylab-
type mission.
QUERY How about a rundown on the post or the
unmanned testing of Skylab. The CMG I, and so forth.
BELEW Well, on the post Skylab testing, the
tests that have been conducted that give us some results to
date are those that were run at the very end of the manned
mission. That's on some battery tests. On our battery systems,
we have two major systems. One on the ATM and one on the
airlock. And those tests showed a very favorable trend in
the batteries that are in the airlock. The battert's life
looks extremely good. Better than we'd hoped for. And the
ATM, they looked as we had expected. We handled those two
systems somewhat differently as far as what they received
before we sent them up. For instance, the batteries in the
airlock were new. The ones in the ATM, we had used through
• .°

SL IV MC-129D/2
Time: 12:00 CDT
2/8/74

a great deal of our test program. And that two - having two
types results there gives us a great deal of information on
this type of system. The other enBineering tests are just
under way. The one that we have a bit of information on is
the spinup of our CMG number I. It began looking like
it might be following the right curve as far as the current
that one would have. We have the footprint of the first
startup and we plot it, we were tracing the results of this
one. It looked pretty good for an hour, but it now looks
like it's kind of not acting just right, so I wouldn't
predict too much on that one. The other engineering tests
are just underway.
PA0 Mary.
QUERY I have a question for Admiral Shepard.
Since you were the man that started this whole thing off,
and you had a, I believe the time was something in the order
of 15 minutes in space, could you Five your thoughts on did
you think this day would come that you would have an 85-day
mission? And what you think the astronauts per se, not
technology, I don't mean that, but the men themselves have
accomplished during this span of time?

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI29E/I
TIME: 12:00 CDT, 85:17:00 GMT
2/8/74

QUERY - nauts per se, not the technology,

I don't mean that, but the men themselves have accomplished
during this span of time.
SHEPARD Well I think, certainly Mary that you
partially answered your first question in that back in '59 and
'60 when there was a great deal of cynicism about men in space,
that we found it difficult to believe that we would have made
the strides that we've made in this short period of time. I
think that we've accomplished certainly much more than even
the most optimistic of us would have predicted at that
particular time. And I think that certainly along those lines,
we have reached a sense of maturity which is heartening
to us in some degree that we have been able to do this. In
the short space of time that we've been able to demonstrate
already, some of the spin-off and fall out that has started
to effect the social structure of the country. But at the same
time, it's disturbing that since we have reached this sense
of maturity that its becomes so blase that we didn't even cover
the last landing of this fantastic Skylab program live on
television. With respect to these accomplishments, I think
that certainly the majority of them have been accomplished
by the fact that man has been the factor in the loop. Not only
the crews in the spacecraft but also the crews on the ground
have been able to bring their exercising judgment - exercise
their judgment in engineering to bear on the problems that
have occurred. I don't think that we would have been able to
make the progress that we had that we now have the imaginative
and the flexible element of man with us all the way through
during this time period.
QUERY How much of a problem - how much of a worry
was this propellant leak this morning? And since something
similiar occurred on the second mission, does this give you any
thoughts about this system in general that you're thinking
about make any changes?
SHAFFER The first part was a leak in the command
module RCS system which is a system that provides attitude
control during reentry sequence. That system is completely
redundant, so the first concern is the loss of redundancy and the
sensitivity to a subsequent failure in the other system. The
second level of concern is that fact that those propellants are
toxic. And we had some special procedures that we wanted to relay
to the crew to protect them from the toxicity as much as we could.
One of the thinBs that was new this time that we didn't have
for the two previous missions was ARIA spacecraft - the ARIA
airplane off Japan that covered the deorbit maneuver. And that
vehicle came in very handy because it allowed us to relay that.
information to the crew prior to entry. I don't think we
• °

SL-IV MCI29E/2
TIME: 12:00 CDT, 85:17:00 GMT
2/8/74

know yet, what the actual leak was. Whether it was the
helium which is used to pressurize or whether it was actually
one of the propellants. But that system is contained in
the vehicle that we have recovered. So it will be able to
find out specifically what the failure was. Alan do you
have something you want to say.
SHEPARD That was what I was going to say, Phil,
exactly.
SHAFFER Okay.
QUERY For anyone who would like to take a
crack at it, I would like to know what's left for man in
space? Decoupling budgetary and political things from it but
just some on - on pure basis, what is there - what is there
left now for man to do in space?
SCHNEIDER I'll take a crack at that. That's what
I meant when I said it's only national resolve. We have
shown that no man or machine limitation on whatever we want
to do in space. I believe our Royce is a little more
conservative than I. But I think eliminating budget problems,
I think we have shown in Skylab that man can work in space.
He does useful work in space, and there is useful work to be
done up there. And we've shown that there's no man restriction
on shuttle or space station or anything that we want to do
beyond that.
QUERY I know there's no money in the fiscal '75
budget for another series of Skylab missions, but is this
being considered at all since you have most of the hardware
you need?
SCHNEIDER No sir.
QUERY Think it will be opened for consideration
now that this series was completed so successfully -

END OF TAPE
SL IV PC-129F/I
Time: 12:00 CDT
2/8/74

QUERY - -- being considered at all since you

have most of the hardware you need?
SCHNEIDER No, sir.
QUERY Think it will be open for consideration
now that this series was completed so successful.
SCHNEIDER No, sir, I do not. The equipments that
we have been using in Skylab will gradually be phasing into
the ASTP and Shuttle Programs and once that begins to happen,
why, we will have essentially no capability to reactivate. We
are holding to things until June. That's - because that's
when they begin being needed for the Shuttle, and after that,
there will be no equipment available.
QUERY Even though the men now have left Skylab,
and even though the tests have been complete, the mission in
a sense is still going on. I think people would be interested
in knowing the future of the workshop, roughly how long it
will be expected to stay up. How long it will function, and
how valuable its function will be?
SCHNEIDER We have, as you heard earlier, a series
of engineering tests that are planned for the next 22 hours,
I believe, or something on that order, which are designed
to bring back to us as much engineering data as we can out
of Skylab as it remains. At the end of that, we will put
it in to what we call a gravity gradient mode, and we will
turn off the lights and turn off the switches and turn off
the CMGs and let Skylab drift. It's anticipated that it
will remain in orbit about i0 or ii years.
QUERY Related to that, I heard several references
the last couple of days about a possible revisit to Skylab
with a time capsule being left in it - that sort of thing.
What do you have in mind?
SCHNEIDER Well, we've just left it such that if, in
the event the Shuttle comes along and we go up there and we can
redock and revisit if ASTP has an alternate mission, why it
too can go up and dock and revisit. We do not think that
there is a high probbability that if you tried to turn the
systems on, they would turn on, but we think you can very
easily, very probably be able to dock and reenter. And that's
why we left the package, the materials they have to bring
back to see what long term exposure in space is. Currently
I'd have to say there are no active plans that I know of by
anybody to visit Skylab.
QUERY Mr. Schneider, since many of us feel that
we have ended an era in certainly dynamic exploration, where
we've had progress in manned space flight year after year, and
now we only have the ASTP, which is a brief mission and Shuttle.
How soon do you think that we will be able to get underway
with an equally dynamic manned exploration program, in which we
have things above and beyond what we've done and equally dynamic
with the past, say, 13 or 14 years?
SL IV MC-129F/2
Time: 12:00 CDT
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SCHNEIDER Mary, you'll forgive me if I don't know the

dates on the Shuttle_ because I really don't. But I'll
say I don't look upon this as the end of an era, but as
the beginning of an era. I think we've shown in Skylab
that what we've been saying on Shuttle is true. We are _oing
to make space into another diminsion that man is goin_ to
use profitably. He's going to live and work up there. And
with Shuttle, we're _oing to make that easier than it was on
Skylab.
QUERY Has there been a ballpark figure on the
numbers of Earth photographs you have.
SCHNEIDER I've seen those numbers. Many, many.
If you'll excuse me just a minute. Is this it? Let me -
ATM, it says we have 182,842 frames. I hope they're all good,
too. EREP, it says we have 40,286 in 190A, and 190B has
5,860, and we've got a great deal more film than that that's
coming down, so that's just a beginning. Now, also, interestingly
enough, we have 238,600 feet of tape, which, off of the EREP.
So there's a great deal data that will be coming down.
That's what I mean when I say this is the beginning of the
scientific phase. It will take the scientists a great deal
of -- --

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI29G/I
Time: 12:00 CDT
2/8/74

SCHNEIDER - will be coming down. That's what I mean

when I say this is the beginning of the scientific phase. It
will take the scientist a great deal of time to look at that
data and to bring out of it all all that it's worth.
QUERY Those were total Skylab. Not just this
past mission?
SCHNEIDER I'm sorry, yes.
QUERY Dr. Hawkins, now that the mission's over
and keeping in mind that there were a few very evident
problems at the beginning and lack of training on certain
medical things, and all that kind of thing. To what now
would you attibute the dramatic changes in both the mood of
the astronauts and the efficiency of the astronauts, and the
seemingly greater difficulty in adjusting to weightlessness
compared to other crews.
HAWKINS Well, Mary, I don't I don't know as we've
really saw any greater difficulty adjusting. When you look
at the levels of performance in all - and compare those they
have looked very very similar to what we have seen in the
past. There is a learning curve that they - they must go
through. It is is a new environment and they've got to
learn how to move and coordinate themselves in this new
environment. Even though they have had extensive training
on the medical equipment that they used in flight - preflight.
There is still a new learning curve that they have got to
follow. I think you see individual difference, eertainly_
but that's - that's to be expected. But I think this crew
has - did have some experiments and some tasks and all which
they were - were asked to start immediately off on, in the
early phases of the mission which the previous crew did not
begin to encounter until way beyond halfway of the mission,
when they had already gone through that initial just sheer
learning curve of adjusting in weightlessness. So, I I
think the performance is very outstanding in the way that
they have wrapped up this program and the data that they
have given us not only medical area but all of the scientific
areas of endeavor here, I think Just speak for itself really.
SPEAKER Don't forget none of these three guys
have been there before_ this is the first time for all three.
They haven't been anywhere before except listen to the sea
stories at the bar. (Laughter)
SPEAKER We were talking to the ATM PI's this
morning, and they had a very very glowing report for the
conduct of the ATM experiments by this crew. In fact they
said some of there very best data on on was gained by this
crew. So - so that sort of witnesses that they really did
SL-IV PCI29G/2
Time: 12:00 CDT
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did perform quite well.

QUERY For Alan Shepard and Dr. Hawkins, do you
see any objections to sending another rookie - entirely
rookie crew up in space?
HAWKINS Well, I'm sure Admiral Shepard doesn't
and I certainly don't as long as they've had the benefit
of pre-flight training which they must have or any crew
must have.
SHEPPARD Yeah, I think that's correct. That
bears out the the fact that our training program is
essentially correct for these three fellows. The comment
I made earlier had =o do with the fact they were not
only there for the first time., but there had been, as Royce
said, some last minute changes in procedures particularly in
the medical experiments, which they really hadn't had a
chance to become too familiar. So I don't see any problems
at all. And certainly that is one of the plans as you
look forward to shuttle is to put rookies up there.
Particularly in the area of the payload specialist as we
call them. This will be the first time for them, so we've
got a very good data point on how to handle it.
SPEAKER I might add that certainly this crew did
everything that they were called on to do, and they did it
well. No one can question the - the way in which they did
anything.
QUERY Do you think it's safe now that the
mission completed that man could stay up in a long mission
for a year or two using the same physical training that was
used on Skylab?
HAWKINS I think it will go a long way to keeping
him there, sure. We're going to have to look at what we've
learned here in these three missions. And certainly in the
duration that we've just flown does give us a lot of hope
and promise for what man can really do, how long he can
stay there. I'm optimistic about it. I didn't mean to
sound pes - -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI29H/I
TIME: 12:00 CDT, 85:17:00 GMT
2/8/74

HAWKINS - - does give us a lot of hope and promise

for what man can really do and how well he can stay there.
I'm optimistic about it. I didn't mean to sound pessimistic
earlier in response to the first question. There are - there
are a lot of things that have to be learned, which we do not know
at this particular point. But what we have seen in performance
does lead us to believe that certainly we can - we can work
around any limitations that man has in order to be able to
keep in there in help him do a job.
QUERY To follow up possible on what AI was
saying, that's sounds to me as though somebody has been
thinking about maybe getting new astronauts from somewhere
down the road closer to the shuttle. And I just wonder if you
could share some of that thinking with us as to when you
might be in position to bring some new ones on board and
whether they will be women involved and the requirments for
these new people and so forth.
SHEPARD My name is if we're going to talk about
ladies in space my name is Deke Slayton. We have as you
know all kinds of plans for shuttle, the crewls in Shuttle
training programs. But just generally speaking, the plans right
now for staffing the missions appear to be that we will use the
current astronauts that we have here at the space center, in
the areas of piloting requirements, in the areas certainly the
initial medical and the initial scientific experiments. But
beyond that after a year or so of conducting these experiments,
the thought currently is that we will be brinBing in people
who are familiar with a specific experiment, and will be conducting
it, but not necessarily have any previous training at all in
space flight. That's the general plan and certainly if you
want to say that an experiment includes writing a poem in space,
maybe you'd take a poet up there. I see no reason why you
wouldn't expand it to that degree.
QUERY What you're saying is that after a year or
so, what you're looking at is taking Just ordinary people
along.
SHEPARD We've been putting in ordinary people in
space for 12 years now - 13 years. You won't believe it but
we have.
QUERY I'd like to know about what information
from Skylab is goinB to have a bearing on the future training
of the astronauts for these shuttle programs?
SHEPARD That's a big question, I think certainly
we will - we will use almost all of the training, the types
of trainin_ equipment - the same types of training in
procedures that we've used in the past. We)re found them
very successful, which has, of course, - to maybe break
SL-IV PC129/2
TIME: 12:00 CDT, 85:17:00 GMT
2/8/74

it down a little further, which means you'll have some

people training to be pilots and some training to be the
scientist that and specialists that go along with it. But I
really haven't seen generally speaking anything in our
previous training programs that - which we will not use in
training people further right from the general familiarization
training right all the way down to the specific experiment
type training. We've had a lot of experience to count on.
QUERY For those of us who followed this thing
every day for 84 days and especially in the last few weeks,
whatever happened to CMG number 2? Is it still alive? I know
it's still alive and if it were to collaspe now after -
during this period, how long - what would be the orbital
lifetime of the - ? S
SCHNEIDER Well, CMG number 2, as we left the
control center a moment ago, locked like it was in what we
call stable i, that's where we started. We - we souBht a new
plateau you know, during these last 6 or 8 weeks. And found
another stable point and it's been vacillating between the two.
Of course, if you lost this CMG, you would really lose the
ability to keep it pointed to the solar attitude that's
necessary over these next 20 so - 20 odd hours to do
some of the data gathering we're doing. Sort of academic
as to what happens thereafter because you will call on that
system not to where, it'll be shut off.
KLEINKNECHT Whether that's operating or not doesn't
effect the lifetime of the vehicle that's up there.

END OF TAPE
SL IV PC-1291/I
Time: 12:00 CDT
2/8/74

KLEINKNECHT - - Whether that's operating or not

doesn't effect the lifetime of the vehicle that's up there.
QUERY Dr. Hawkins, did you get any actual
measurements in talking with the ship on what the blood
pressure and pulse readings of the various men were? And
if not, they obviously didn't, then if not, how soon could
we expect to get that?
HAWKINS Mary. We didn't, as I was shaking my head.
No, the only figures we did get was reported by the crew, one
of the crewmen earlier from the spacecraft of the heart rates
in a supine position, which were 70, 80, and 80, which are
certainly very, very nominal readings. I would estimate
that possibly, maybe 2 hours before we'll really have the
initial quick-look report that'll ?ive us any solid figures
to work with. it'll be very late this afternoon, early part
of the evening before we get the final R plus zero data.
PAO More questions• Thank you very much.

END OF TAPE

NASA-JSC
 Skylab News Center
Houston, Texas

Skylab Review
Johnson Space Center
February 21, 1974
i:00 p.m. CDT

Participants:

Dr. Robert A. Parker, Scientist Astronaut

W. Royce Hawkins, Deputy Director for Medical Operations
Verl R. Wilmarth, Program Scientist for Earth Resources, JSC
Dr. J.A. Eddy, High Altitude Observatory, Boulder, Colorado
William C. Snoddy, Skylab Kohoutek Project Scientist
Robert L. Bond, Co-PI Skylab Habitability Experiment
Bob Gordon, PAO

PC-131
SL IV PCI31A/I
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

PAO Ladies and gentlemen, we'll begin our

post-Skylab IV summary. First I have a couple of announce-
ments. The fifth Annual Lunar Science Conference will be
held here at the Johnson Space Center on March 18 through 22.
More than 200 reports on lunar scientific research will be
presented by investigators from the United States and several
foreign countries. Some 500 scientists are expected to part-
icipate in the conference, which will be held right next door.
No, excuse me, at the Gilruth Recreation Center and in
Building i. Further information on this activity can be ob-
tained through this office. Second announcement, courtesy of
our secretary, Judy Boin; she encourages you to buy some
more coffee today, and you are all invited to the public
Affairs post-Skylab event this evening in the Nassau Bay
Hotel, Suite 153. So we have 171 days, 13 hours and 14 minutes
of Skylab, so here to tell us about Skylab IV, Mission Scientist
Dr. Robert Parker. So we will turn it over to Dr. Parker.
PARKER Okay. Let me - have they all got this
little review thing. Okay. So you know what we're
tryln_ to do this afternoon. Generally, what we're trying to
talk about are the results from all of Skylab. Sort of a
general "tie everythin_ together from Skylab," including in some
cases some first looks at SL-IV data, or at least in some cases,
an evaluation of the productivity of SL-IV. For some, and
many experiments, I should say, the data for SL-IV is Just
now, or e_en not now available to the Pls. For some experiments,
for _nstance, S183, the French ultraviolet astronomy experiment
will not even be developed until next Tuesday, so that in some
cases, you know, in fact, most cases, we cantt show you, "Hey,
this is what we did and these are our conclusions from SL-IV."
In fact, we're a long ways from that. In fact, I think I
mIKht Just emphasize again, because I think quite frequently
the publ_c as a whole, at least, and you people that speak to
them probahly does not have too good a realization that the
really solid basic results, or the results that really count
from the Skylab data will not be available in some cases for
years, And that's not to say that the most exciting first-
look tblngs won't be available during this coming year, but
there will be, indeed, very heavy and decent solid science being
done on Skylab data, hopefully 5 years from now, still, so that
there's an awful lot of stuff yet to be gained which we can't
even begin to think about right now. On a shorter time scale,
I might Just again, sort of as an announcement, call your
attention to the to at least some of my feelings. I myself,
being sort of up here later on, talking generally about the
corollary experiments, and somewhat - feel somewhat remiss
quite frequently to come up and talk about somebody else's
experiment. What you really want to do is instead of coming
SL IV PC-131A/2
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

to hear me talk about 85 corollary experiments in 14

minutes, what you really want to do is sit down and talk to
the individual PIs who know more about the experiments than
I do, partly because they've got the data, and I don't. And
whose real lives have been involved in them as well. And
there are a number of symposia being scheduled by NASA, not
just for the press's benefit, but for the group of PIs benefit,
and - but these ought to be newsworthy for you people and let
me start out by saying there's one on materials technology,
which is basically the furnace and the metallurgical samples.
It will be held at Marshall sometime in April. There's one
on EREP results which will be held here in Houston in July
or August, and then a similar medical one which will be held
here in Houston again in July and August. A general symposia
is currently scheduled for the American Astronautical Society
meeting in Los Angeles in August. It will be kind of again,
probably a somewhat simpler level "gee whiz" type of a thing
with a whole bunch of the PIs from many areas. That's in
Los Angeles in August. And there are some plans afoot to have
some sort of a Kohoutek symposium in Goddard in October, in
Washington. Those are the ones we know about so far. In re-
viewing the accomplishments of the mission I can say as those of you
who I recognize as having been here on and off for a good deal
of the last year, at least coverin_ Skylab, I'm sure some
of you are probably a little bit tired of hearing NASA
people say that the mission has been very successful. _owever,
it has been very successful, and I really feel, you know,
there's no other word to describe it. In fact, I can say this
for a number of reasons, one, we've accomplished far more than
we expected to a year ago, for instance, a year ago SL-IV was
a 56-day mission. It had only one load of film for each of
the ATM experiments, instead of essentially two, which we got
eventually. EREP was expecting 26 passes, instead of something like
40, on both SL-III and SL-IV. ATM was expecting somethlnK like 200
hours on SL-III and IV. We had no idea of doing anythin_ with
Kohoutek, because a year ago - well, a year and a month ago
we didn't even know Kohoutek existed. Many of the corollary
experiments, such as S019, a year ago was expecting to expose
two magazines of film_ one on SL-II and one on SL-III. Instead
they exposed various portions of five magazines over all three
missions. And this, remember, was when we assumed a year ago,
that we_ in fact, were going to have a perfect working vehicle
after launch. In fact, it may be one one likes to think
about this on the late night summary shifts, which we worked so
many on - durin_ Skylab, that maybe, in fact, we wouldn't
have accomplished quite as much as we did, had we had a per-
fectly successful launch. It may well be that gettin_ our

ii¸ ;I_!_I!+_
SL IV PC-131A/3
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

feet wet on the very first day of Skylab and having to scramble
and make do and make some very hard decisions made us a little
less conservative than we would have been, and perhaps allowed
us to accomplish more in the long run for the mission. In
that line, I'd like to read one thing here, which is a letter
that Jack Sevier and myself as program scientists wrote to
Bill Schneider as program director towards the close of the
SL-IV mission discussing the efforts of not Just the experi-
menters, but of many of the other people who worked down here
for instance, in the MOCR and the backrooms and out at
Huntsville, and at the various contractor sites, and what
their impact was on the science mission. It goes as follows:
"Without detracting from the dedicated and excellent performance
of the many individual members of the experiment teams, we
feel it is also particularly important to recognize the slmillar
high level of dedication and performance on the part of the members of
the operational teams supporting the vehicle and ground
systems. Time and again during the mission as different mal-
functions occurred they exerted themselves mightily to
maintain not only the viability of the vehicle, but also the
science capability of the mission. Although a leFitimate
and easier course of action would have been to stick
conservatively to premission plans and constraints and
let the experiments fend for themselves, systems constraints
were repeatedly reevaluated and work-around procedures developed
in o_der to increase the capab_llty to support experiment
activities. For example because of electrical shortages and
thermal problems, a sizeable program of power management was
Instituted in ordc_r to permit the continuation cf Z-LV
maneuvers for EREP. When command module launch weight became
a problem because of requirements for repair and for an ex-
tended and launch - and stowage requirements for an extended
SL-IV mission, virtually all the reductions in weight were
made in the area of operational equipment and through reexamination
of launch redlines. Similiar efforts were also made following
the loss of CMG number 1 to permit maneuvering in this
nonnominal mode for EREP and comet observations. As you well
know, there are many other examples where such efforts have
also contributed very substantially to experiment operations.
Presuming to speak for the various members of the experiment
teams, we are happy to acknowledge the major contributions
by the various operational teams to the science accomplishments
of Skylab." And I guess I can say that wlth a gread deal of
serious sincerity, because there were many times when
I frankly felt almost embarrassed at how little was being asked
for the scientists to give up in terms of what was being taken
off, for instance, of the command module before the SL-IV
launch. An awful lot of things that people have assumed for
SL IV PC-131A/4
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

many years were necessary were taken off instead of takin_

off other experiment consumables, like extra canisters of film
for ATM and EREP and so forth. The mission was also, I think,
and here I'm talkin_ about the whole Skylab mission, or the
Skylab program, maybe is the better work for it. It was
also successful because each mission built so well on the
preceding missions. Because we were able to develope and
demonstrate a flexible, smoothly-working system to accomplish
and plan our objectives in a timely manner. The I hope,
and we certainly tried, and I - as I say here, I think we
SUCC

END OF TAPE

_I _b_ ¸
SL-IV PC-131B/I
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

PARKER - - the Skyla5 program maybe is the better

word for it, was also successful because each mission built
so well on the preceeding missions because we were able to
develope and demonstrate a flexible smoothly workin_ system
to accomplish and plan our objectives in a timely manner.
I hope, and we certainly tried and as I say here I think
we succeeded. I think we found a system and were able to
develope at least a system where we could remain in Flight
Plan and work in extremely flexible atmosphere, respond to
real time requirements and changes, And I think this is
something that I myself am as proud of as say the total number
of frames exposed or something llke that for any one of the
experiments. Now one of the things I was gQinz to do this
afternoon is talk particularly about some of the results, in
particular are the corollaries. However, as I said before virtually
none of the data has gotten to the Pls in any form to be analyzed
yet. We have a couple of "gee whiz" thln_s of the comet
which we"ll show you, but quite frankly, maybe I shouldn't
say this, but quite frankly we just don't have any SL-4 data
right now that's been given any sort of interpretation. This
is particularly true of the corollaries because very little of
the data is brought down in real time as opposed to say the
medics when they get the crew back in almost real time and they
get all their telemetry data back in real time. They say
$019 with the comet was developed yesterday; S183 for instance,
is beinF developed on Tuesday; S093, the ozone experiment
heinz developed over the weekend. So some of the data is
still totally locked up on film. Other data is just barely
become available to the Pls. Itrs also somewhat ironic that
because of the small staffs of most of the corollary experiments
in many cases only two or three people are workinz on the data.
During SL-IV very little time was available for the small staffs
to work on the reduction of SL-II and SL-III data. Again if
I were to discuss (squeal) that much from most of these Pls
because again they have been spending all of their efforts
workln_ operationally and gettinz more data durin_ SL-IV. So
for those reasons_ I really don't wan; to say too much about
mean counts and results. I don't llke to talk about how
many frames somebody got or how many feet of magnetic tape
they got and so forth. That is one way of keepin_ track of
what we've accomplished, but I donlt myself find that too
_nteresting. And I know that there was a press conference
here with the corollary people before Skylab IV a couple of
days where they did discuss some of those sort of results.
I think I can Just say this, Skylab IV was devoted prlmarily
to reruns, and production runs, and the acqulsltlo_ of more
data for most of the corollaries that had been done already
SL-IV PC-131B/2
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

on SL-III. Virtually all the corollaries for the whole Skylab

mission got essentially all the data or more than they antici-
pated say a year ago. Primary exceptions here are the solar
scientific airlock experiments who lost in a great hurry when
we had to use the solar scientific airlock to deploy the canopy
during Skylah II. In fact for those three experiments we did
rescue some data from them particualarly by takinK experiments
out of EVA and makin_ those (squeel) - S073, which was wantin K
to look at these zodieal light Gegenschein particle contamination
scattering around the spacecraft. That experiment, if you can
remember back to August, malfunctioned, could not he withdrawn
back in through the antisolar airlock which would have essentially
tied up the airloek for all other experiments, and so that
experiment was jettisoned early during SL-III. Those are the
two basic experiment areas which we did not do quite as - or
did not do literally as well as we had expected a year ago.
If some of you have questions on individual experiments, I'm
quite willing to answer those, and hopefully I can get you
some reasonable and honest comments on those. But as I say,
I don't want to sit up here and tell you that S019 got 136 frames
of film compared to a pre-mission total or some other EREP got so
many thousand _

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI31-C/I
Time: 13:03 GMT
2/21/74

PARKER - - total or some other EREP got so many

thousand feet of magnetic tape. And I think I'd let it go
at that and if you have - if some of you have questions I'd
be willing to answer them, otherwise we can press on to the
next one which must be the medics.
PAO Okay, Dr. Hawkins. Unless you have a
question, Jim.
QUERY Okay. What were some of the things that
were taken out of the CSM that you said were previously thought
to be necessary?
PARKER Okay. There were some lockers. You know,
things were stored in soft - in soft stowage instead of hard
stowage. There must be some sort of writeup on that someplace
(garble) word about that.
SPEAKER Yes. Before each mission, Jim, there
was a list available of the things removed from each command
module that were necessary.
PARKER Okay. One in particular - one in particular,
was water from the survival kit. Used to be in there, I think,
for 5 days, this was reduced to 3 days, or else it used
to be in there for 3 days, was reduced to 2 days. The
total size of the survival kit was markedly reduced in order
to save weight.
QUERY That's it?
PARKER No, there was a whole bunch of other ones.
There was some - there was 150 pounds more or less taken out.
But I - quite frankly, don't have those.
PAO Well, if we have no further questions on
this area, we'll go on to Dr. Royce Hawkins, discuss the
crew status, and medical experiments. Dr. Hawkins.
HAWKINS Okay. I guess the way this was set up
here, for - by Bob, as to how we were going to approach this
this afternoon. Sounded like we're going to give you all the final
answers to what we've seen in Skylab and let me assure you
right now, that isn't so. We've -, we've had - we've had
three successful flights and we've had six different individuals
up there and our results from each of the missions, has been
somewhat different. This is unlike a lot of engineering type
of of studies and all, where they can predict the outcome
of a specific performance or failure. Man is a different
type of system all together. He doesn't always respond. He
doesn't usually respond just exactly like you - you were going
to predict and that's the interesting thing about it_is the
understanding and learning what - what these differences are,
that the real limitations of man may be and, therefore, provide
means in order to cope with those limitations in order to go
ahead and do a job. We feel like the results we have seen
 • p

SL-IV MCI31-C/2
Time: 13:03 GMT
2/21/74

with the three missions thus far, certainly with the last one,
point positively toward man's future roles and participation
in space. The longest duration of the mission, showed a crew
retuH1i[g - I think probably in the best shape of any of the
three crews. Their - certainly their immediate postflight
performance was better than what we really anticipated or
expected to see. In the in the 171, the the crew of
Skylab IV were, of course, not subjected to the full work
protocol on the bicycle ergometer. Even at this level, they
were capable of performing quite satisfactorily although at
much higher physiological cost, both in heart rates and blood
pressures than what we'd seen preflight. This is again,
what we would expect. At R plus l, they were still not
able to do a full protocol. This is slightly different from
what the from what the Skylab II and Ill crews showed. But
by R plus 4, all of the crews of Skylab IV, were back within
their preflight envelopes. Now to compare that with Skylab II,
that crew was not back until R plus 16. R plus 3 looked very
much like R plus 4 by R plus 5 they were - they were considered
well back within their preflight envelope. Now in the 92,
M092 experiments, the - -

END OF TAPE

i! :i m£
L

SL-IV PCI31-D/I
Time: 13:03 CST
3/21/74

HAWKINS - - that are well back within their

preflight envelope. Now, in the 92 - MO92 experiments, the
the Skylab IV crew showed again, not - not - responses
not unlike the previous crew's. We had one crewman that was
not able to complete the the full protocol. He had to
abort the run at minus at 1 minute and 12 seconds into the
minus 50 level. The commander and the science pilot were
able to complete that protocol on R plus zero. Up through
R plus 2, which was all still out on the ship, they they
were still showing rather slgnlflcant blood pressure
elevations, heart rates and all with the performance of of
the protocol although they were able to complete those runs
satisfactorily. And then by R plus 4 back here, and again
at R plus 5, the crew of Skylah IV were back within the pre-
flight levels. Now, this was again borne out at R plus ii,
which is the last data point that we had on the on the
Skylab IV crew. So, their performance, I think in the cardio-
vascular area, has been one of, that I would say, is very
remarkable. It's - it's certainly one that is - is most
encouraging, and I don't yet fully understand all of the
- the significance of the differences that we have seen, or
why we have seen these particular differences. Although with
each mission we did do certain things differently, and exercise
was certainly one of the differences that we did put aboard
Skylab III, and again on Skylab IV, increasing the amount
of time that the crews had for personal exercise on each
subsequent mission there. The - the calf circumfrance measure
ments, which is another interesting flndln K which I know all of you
have - have tried to track and follow along with us. We have
always seen, in every mission, a rather significant drop in
the circumference of the calf of all of the crews. And this
would vary, the rate of change then, from that initial first 2 or
3 days, would vary depending upon - on the individual. But as
far as Skylab IV showed, this was a continuing rate changeout beyond
day 40, with rather slgnif - a - type of plateaulng after that,
very insignificant rate change if any at all. Now then, at recovery
we saw what looked llke exactly the same type of last infllght
measurements, and we expected that this was going to follow
along the path which we saw for the two previous missions,
where this would be slowly returning to what the preflight
girth measurement of the calf was, something out about llke
21 days before this occured in Skylab II and III. Well,
by R plus 5 they had recovered about a third of the loss that
was seen in flight, and then by R ii, R plus ii, I consider
the measurements that we obtained at that time to be exactly
like they were preflight. So, here's a fairly significant
SL-IV PCI31-D/2
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

ChanBe in the positive aim. Now, to give you some comparisons

of times of recovery, or return to baselines for Skylab II
and III, and IV. In II the - the II crewmen, that were longest
of any of the crew - crewmen flown so far, did not begin to
show comparable prefliBht levels of measurement until
after R plus 21: that was the commander and the science pilot.
Now, the one individual that was - stood out very much
different was, of course, the pilot on Skylab - -

END OF TAPE

7-- il:iiil:
SL-IV PCI31-E/I
Time: 13:03 GMT
2121/74

HAWKINS - - one individual that was stood out

very, very much different was, of course, the pilot on Skylab II,
who was back to preflight levels at R plus 2. Skylab III,
all three crewmen were considered hack by R plus 9. Then
again, as I said earlier on by R plus 4, the Skylah IV crew
were back. Okay. Now in the 131, the that's the vestibular
studies the - the results here have - have been very - very
similar, really, to what we've seen in the previous crews. The
last measurement that we had with the Skylah IV crew was in
R plus 5, where the motion sensitivity test was performed and
at that time, the crews were able to perform their - their
usual 150 head movements at the maximum rotation of 30 rpm,
but with mild symptoms. Now the next time we'll be - we will
evaluate this particular teat and function will he at R plus 17,
which will be like next Monday. The oculogyral illusion in
special localization tests were as - were performed at R-If and
these were considered to be back within preflight levels. The
Skylab II crew, were - were considered back with all of the
motion sensitivity and the OGI and the special localizations
by R plus 21. Perhaps even a little bit of question at that
particular time, as I remember, but we were not able to again
check them until R-60 which by that time, was a very positively -
reverted back to at normal preflight state. Now, the same
thing appeared with Skylab III crew, and I think that what we're
going to see here is probably a similar situation with Skylab IV.
Now the big differences here are the levels of rotation, the
stress the - which the crews of II, III, and IV were subjected to.
As I said, Skylab IV crew have been rotated at the 30 rpm, which
is what the - they had obtained preflight and sustained all
the way through in flight. The Skylah II crew were at 12 rpm.
For two of the crewmen, 15 rpm for one, and 20 for the other
preflight, and they were not able to go above these levels in
the postflight period, although in flight, they did. While
Skylab III, were - all three of them were about had obtained a
level of about 20 rpm with 150 head movements preflight and were
able to continue on that level of,performance in the postflight
period. So, that is a difference there and yet, I don't fully
know why _ why the difference. Now an interesting point is in
the calcium mobilization from the bones, we had not seen any
significant losses until Skylah III and at that time, we saw
about a 7 percent loss in the heel bone of the science pilot.
Now, in Skylab IV, the R plus 1 data - and that's all I have
available as yet, showed a loss in - in all of the crewmen,
with _bout a 7 percent loss in the pilot, 4-1/2 in the science
p_lot_ and about 0.7 - 0.5 percent in the commander. This, again
then doesn't look much unlike what Owen's Owen Garriot showed
us in Skylab III although this is at a - a certainly longer
period of flight and exposure to zero gravity. The significant
SL-IV PCI31-E/2
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thing here I think is, of course, that all three crewmen here
have shown some some loss. Although, again let me reassure
you that the losses that have been seen to date, are not - are
not of any level that would be clinically significant where you
would expect any type of trouble such as bone fractures or
anything of that nature. But it is - it is an interesting
finding which as yet must await the full analysis and in-
terpretation by our principal investigators. Now, let me touch
on the other points which have been of significant interest
to us and that is the hemotology. Again, our loss in plasma
volume has been about the usual 15 percent loss in Skylab IV.
And the red cell mass, again doesn't look really too much
unlike the - the previous crew's except perhaps a little
bit lower percentage loss in the Skylab IV. Now in Skylab II,
we - we had - we showed about at R-0, about a 14 percent loss
in the red cell mass. In Skylab III, we had again about a 14 -
15 percent loss is the average and then in Skylab IV, I would
say the - the average loss here was somethin_ like about 7 percent.
So it may - roughly, it's about half. Now I don't know what
the - let's see. I guess we did get another blood - blood
samples that are isotope studies done in R plus 5, I believe
it was. And I don't have the results of that yet. That'll
be coming probably by the end of the week. But in the the
hemoglobins, this was initially found to be elevated in the
R-0 recovery phase, partly due to dehydration and concentration
of the - of the blood, the pla - and red cells. It - the
figures at that time did not look too much unlike what the
inflight values had been running. Although, remember we did
see an awful lot of fluctuation in the in the readings that -
that were obtained in flight. And I might add that did not
always correspond with what the - the readings obtained post-
flight from the inflight samples returned to us show. Now
at R plus I, then we did find with rehydration, a drop in the
hemoglobin levels by about 2 to 2-1/2 grams across the board
for the crewmen. Now this to dat e now, has - has remained just
about at a gram, gram and a half loss. They have increased
slightly. The other important thing that we track very closely
in this immediate postflight period has been the reticular
side counts which is a indication of the blood-forming organs
of the body to produce new red blood cells and where in Skylab II,
we did not see any activity in this area until out to beyond
R plus 18. And somewhere in between R plus 18 and R plus 42,
which was the time that we were able to obtain blood samples
again from that particular crew. And it was somewhere in that
time period, they did begin to develop what would be called
a normal hemopoetic activity in response. The Skylab III crew
were different. They were definitely showing increased red
cell counts , red cell formations there by R plus 5. And R
SL-IV PCI31-E/3
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

plus - Skylab IV, we were seeing _p_,,1_ =4_4-e counts in

R plus zero. So you can see, we do have a lot of differences
here to look at and it's going to take tlme for us to really
compare all of the data that we have. We still have a lot of
the laboratory data, of course, from the infllght samples
that is still bein_ processed and - -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI31-F/I
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HAWKINS - - for us to really compare all of the

data that we have. We still have a lot of the laboratory
data, of course, from the infllght samples that is still
bein K processed, and I cannot really speak of any of the results
there as yet. But it's goin K to take some time for us to
completely analyze this and put it together, and to really
understand what all of these changes really mean because
they do have to interlock and interrelate to one another.
PA0 Okay, we'll have questions and answers.
If questions, please wait for the mike. Paul, right here.
Paul (garble).
QUERY Dr. Hawkins, way back in May before the
Conrad crew launched, you said that one purpose of the
medical tests was to find kind of a magic formula that would
enable man to stay in space virtually forever. Do you think
at this point in time that you got a handle on it, or you
still searching?
HAWKINS No, I don't think we've got a handle on
it yet by any means. And we won't really, until we've
definitely been able to put all the pieces together and
really understand what the - what the big picture is.
PAO Bill Crommie.
QUERY Have you got any actual reasons or spec-
ulations on why each of the crews came out better? I mean
are you sayin K it could be a combination of exercise and
the fact that they were there long enough to plateau off,
or what?
HAWKINS Well, you can speculate on a lot of the -
a lot of these thin_s really. And no, I don't know the
answer to that. I think exercise has definitely played a
significant role. That and time have been the really the
hi@ - the bi_ Deltas if you, you know, as you look from
one mission to the other. Of course, the other difference,
of course, are the individuals. And although I think that
the - the individual performance _s really not goln_ to give
you that sole answer. There are other thin_s which you've
got to figure into it. And the nutrition, the schedule of
activity, the time allocated for rest, exerclsin_, all
of these thinks definitely play a significant role in - in,
I think, in preparing men or maintaining them in a state
where you could expect them to go indefinitely.
PAO Author Helt.
QUERY Well doctor, based on what you have found
out thus far, how would you personally feel about certifying
a reasonably healthy, but nonspace trained person, say like
Raquel Welch, for a 14 or 30 day space shuttle flight? And
SL-IV PCI31-F/2
TIME: 13:03 CDT
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for this type of person what sort of preflight medical checks,

if any, would you want to run?
HAWKINS Well, (laughter) I'ii start off and say I'ii
volunteer to take all of that responsibility and perform
all the examinations necessary. (Laughter) The - yeah,
I feel llke that we've, you know, we've flown healthy in-
dividuals. Of course, we - we certainly know more about
the individuals that we've flown than we do right now about
the average people off the street which you're referring to
as being candidates for passengers in the in the future.
Out of what we've - what we have learned and what we will
learn in Skylab, we will have to develop criteria and standards
of selections of people who will be flown. I I I have
no doubts, but what the standards can he somewhat lower than
what we have, you know, have selected our astronaut core
by and have have flown in the flights to date. These
- these individuals have been in the - in really the best
of health. They've had the advantage of most of medical
attention that anybody in, I think in the world, has ever
recieved, They've had the benefit of all the medical
knowledge that we can muster to support them_ and for a
specific purpose that we were going into the unknown and
we had to, you know, we had to have them ready to cope with
any type of problem, emergency, or whatever. I think that
the _ the physical status of those crews have held up to
that requirement. But, I think in the process we've learned
too, that okay, we, you know, we can fly people with a little
less physical state, a little less exercise regime program that
they would _ave to maintainp and certainly the different
sexes. But the standards will have to be established, and
I don_t have those today, of what wetre going to measure
those passengers by. But there definitely will have to be
some restrictions placed on people. You can't just open
it up as an airline yet to everybody because I feel very
sure that the type of changes we've seen, certainly in
cardiovascular areas are going to dictate that there's a
lot of cardiac and cardiovascular problems just won't be
able to go.
QUERY Let me, if you'll speculate alon_ with
me just a little bit further here, based on your knowledge
of the, say out of a given number of people like i0 or 100
average individuals there would be a certain number you
would expect with some cardiovascular problems, and so forth.
But - but, just can you give us a ballpoint figure of - of
say, projected i0 or 15 years from now. Out of a I00 average
people, how many would you think would be medically
okay for 14 or 30 day type of space flight as a passenger?
SL-IV PCI31-F/3
TIME: 13:03 CDT
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HAWKINS Whew, oh, boy. (Laughter) I don't know,

I don't know what that figure would be right off hand. Really,
I'd even hesitate to make a guess. I think you've got a -
One thing, I think you've got to again look at a specific
population that you're going to be flying. You're not going
to really be talking about flying every man off the street
like an airline. You're going to be flying people with
specific backgrounds, scientific or whatever, to perform
a specific function up there. And the damands, I think, are
going to be different for each different group. You're going
to have the hard-core pilots who are going to fly the thing
up there and back and they're going to have to meet some
pretty rigid standards because they got to be - they got to
be in a state where they can perform and take care of any
type of emergencies that exist whether you're passengers
or not. It's very comparable to what you'd see in an
airline situation. But out of a hundred people off of the
street that you're talkin_ about, I'd say maybe i0 percent
would maybe be, you know, readily acceptable.
PAO Bruce Hicks.
QUERY Yeah, Royce, I got a couple. First of
all, what were the results on the - the testing on the
heart size?
HAWKINS Okay, the - you're talking about the
echo cardiography. I don't have - I really don't have
any results yet on the X-rays, which you know the conventional
cardio ratio. These have not been measured as yet and
analyzed completely. The - the echo showed absolutely nothing,
no change in the - in two of the subjects, the commander
and the SPT. The pilot was the only one who showed any type
of change, and this looked on the first of the examination
to be a volume - a chamber volume change rather than any
muscle mass or body wall thickness - muscle wall thickness.
QUERY Well, do you expect those results will
change with the X-ray results, or will they - do you think
they'll backup the echo cardiogram? That's more sensitive,
isn't it?
SPEAKER Well, the echo cardiography is designed
to measure - -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PC-13iG/1
Time: 13.:03 CDT
2/21/74

HAWKINS - muscle mass or body wall thickness,

muscle wail thickness.
QUERY Well, do you expect those results to change
with the X-ray results or will they - Do you think they
will back up the echo cardiogram? It's more sensitive, isn't
it?
HAWKINS Well, the echo cardiography is designed to
measure the wall thickness. The cardio-thoracic ratio is a
diameter of the heart, the overall size of the heart, which we
have consistently seen to be reduced in size. And the question
before was whether that was a muscle loss, cardiac muscle loss
or whether it was a volume change. And so far the initial results
with the echo cardiography looks like it's probably volume change.
QUERY And this is the first time we've done the
echo cardiography, so the other times when we've seen the heart
shrlnka_e or the reduction in size or whatever, it isn't
muscle mass loss as such then?
HAWKINS Well, so far what I have available right
now tends to say that that is the truth. It is not muscle
loss.
QUERY And a moment ago you made a comment that
the exercise regimen may not he as much on, say, the average
guy off the street and so forth on a Shuttle flight. Well,
the results - just a to gross look at the results of how long
it takes to come back to the envelope after flight, you take a
mission that is three times as long as the first one the guys are
back five times faster, hut they have done all this much
more exercise and each flight got more. How can you cut back
to the exercise level of Pete Conrad's crew and say they are
going to he, you know, he able to handle it?
HAWKINS Well, I'm really thinking about the the
realistic time duration of your Shuttle flights. You're talking
about 6-day, 8-day flights. And you go back and look at
Gemini and Apollo crew's return to those, they bounce back
within about this time period that we have seen here without
any real exercise program on board - nothin_ of the nature that
we'_e had with Skylab. They didn't have a bicycle ergometer
up there or a modified makeshift treadmill up there or any of
that. It was just a hungee cord, the Exergene or whatever.
And so I think with the shorter duration flights, the amount
of exercise is really not going to be so meaningful, not that
it isn't it wouldn't be helpful, let me put it that way.
And what I would propose that we have in Shuttle is the capability
for exercising and maintaining the physical status of all the
people.
SL-IV PCTI31G/2
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

QUERY Well then in relationship to a I- or 2-year

flight is an hour and a half of exercise per day going to cut it
or are you going to have to increase that?
HAWKINS Oh, I think there is a limit to how, you
know, how many hours a day that you need to exercise to maintain
your physical status. And what that magic number is, Bruce,
I'm not real sure at this point, but it certainly looks like
from Skylab IV that an hour to an hour and a half a day seems
adequate. And I wouldn't expect it to go beyond that really.
If they utilize that time efficiently, that should stress the
cardiovascular system and the musculature system adequately
enough to keep you in a pretty good state of health.
QUERY Can you put a number on the heart shrinkage
as a percentage of the total heart or something?
HAWKINS Let's see, I don't have a figure, let me
see what - I was trying to think back to Skylab II and III,
what we - This was not, I mean, this is not a big significant
loss. I think the percentage that I recall right offhand,
I may be wrong on this, was somewhere between 1-1/2 and 3 percent,
depending on the individual. That's diameter or volume, area.
QUERY In other words, when the heart is fully
expanded it would be 3 percent less than on Earth.
HAWKINS Yeah.
QUERY I wanted to ask you about the gain in height.
Did they all three gain exactly the same amount of height and
all lose it at the same time at R zero?
HAWKINS It was about the same. It was about, well
it was about an inch and a half to 2 inches is the range it
that they showed inflight. And then yes, this is, you know
almost immediately reverted back to their normal preflight
levels, certainly over the first 2 days. The same thin_ with
the anthropometric measurements that we saw inflight. If you
recall, we did see a reduction in the limb size circumference
both - more so in the legs, but also in the upper extremities
as well as the trunk. And you can associate this partially
with a lengthenin_ of the spinal column in the increased height,
and of course, e stretching or redistribution of the body tissue.
And then of course under the one g conditions you get recompression
of the spaces between the vertebrae and then they settle right
back to what has long been their normal height. And you also
get the other tissues more or less kind of returning to what the
normal waistline was and so forth.
QUERY Did any of them lose any of the compensation
in their back muscles like A1 Bean did?
HAWKINS They are all complaining, even today, of
some muscular soreness. This involved the neck, the abdominal

+
P ++ -i+++
+i+|_
 SL-IV PC-131G/3
Time: 13.:03 CDT
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muscles, the lower back, and the calves, primarily. They

still have a little residual of this. I think all three of
them are still experiencing a little of this even to th_s
time. So it's been gradually improving, but it's still there.
And a little muscular stiffness associated with it also.
QUERY To what would you attribute that?
HAWKINS Well, I think it's just a different use of
the muscles, and muscle groups, you know in this immediate
return to one g conditions over to what they had accustomed
themselves to using them in zero g. And it's not too much
unlike you getting out and working hard in the yard on a
Saturday and using muscles you haven't used, they are goln_
to be sore for a few days.
QUERY In effect, the use of the muscles are normal
in gravity was not bein K done up there and they atrophied and
they are being used now and they're sore as a result of this.
HAWKINS Well, they are used in a different way.
Now I don_t know how much atrophy, you know, it looks like
from what we_ve measured with this crew that we really haven't
seen any appreciable amount of atrophy, although you can't
completely say that there was not some. I think certainly
in the lower extremities we did see some of that with Skylab
II and III. I think we've seen less of it with IV because
of the specific type of exercise program devices that we put
aboard to specifically give them a chance to work those big
heavy antigravity muscle groups.
QUERY There was a - the crew reported they had
a rash while they were in the flight, a skin rash sort of
thin K . Now that youtve had a chance to look at it does this
tell you that there is need for a change in personal hygiene
or clothing changes or anythin_ like that for a lon_ term
flight, or was this wen related to zero g environment?
HAWKINS Well, it's not I don't think it's related
to the zero g, but I do think itts related to of course the
environment, the gaseous environment that they are in. The
temperature, humidity and amount of oxygen and all very
definitely have influenced the condition of the skin. They
have all _ all crews have experienced some drying effect in
fl_ght. And this is strictly just a result of the gaseous humidity
environment. And this was not, I don't think, specifically
the cause of t_e rash. I think that's perhaps more of an
irritant type of thinK. The rashes that were seen were not
of an infectious nature_ so they are really just from irritation,
from the clothing, or that type of thing. These - -

END OF TAPE
SL IV PC-131H/I
Time: 13:03 CDT
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HAWKINS - - The rashes that were seen were net

of an infectuous nature, so they're really Just from irritation
from clothing or that type of thing. These - Hygiene, of
course, is always extremely important, and the better hygiene
capability you have for your crews, the healthier the skin is
goin_ to be. But I feel that we really did not see any really
significant chanEes here in the crews from either of the
postfllght that would say that you Just really have any big
problem. There were - they did use the showers, and I think
it's important that they have that capability to shower down,
and keep keep themselves in a comfortable healthy state.
PAO Arthur.
QUERY Doctor, was there anything out of these
missions, not necessarily of a - of - anything of serious nature,
but was there anything that - medically speakln_ that sur-
prised you? That strikes your memory as somethin_ that was
a little bit unexpected?
HAWKINS (Cough) Excuse me. Well, I guess - I
guess the performance of the crews during - durinK the
exercise performance on their bicycle ergometer and all was
a little bit different that what I had expected. I would
have thouKht, initially anyway, before we ever flew Skylab II,
that we would of - we would have seen greater changes in the
physiology of the - of the men undergoin_ this particular
type of function as - as a reflection of the - of a chan_ing
in the cardiovascular system. What we really saw was the
crews - and this was characteristic of all of them - the crews
more or less looking exactly llke they did preflight. And
then the big change, of course, was in the immediate post-
flight period. The other interesting thing, and I don't
llke to classify it as really su- you know, as surprisin_
to that level, but the performance to the in - to the
er - bicycle er - I mean, the lower body negative pressure.
Their performance here of how you could you could see what
we_d term degradation in the cardlovascular response, and
then on the very next time around they would of - they would
not show this at all. Their performance would be, again,
very acceptable. This was a little surprisln_ and indicative
of a of a - certainly a change, a fluctuatln_ type of
change, but not necessarily reflecting a - a cumulative type
of degradation. It's got to be thus related to some some
specific things associated with the run at that time. En-
vlronment, lack of sleep, some things thus have to figure
into it, but the 92 did prove to he a very good predictor.
Their performance inflight under the 92 predictin_ what
they were going to look llke in the postfllght period. I
think this was rather significant. And then, of course the
other big change was - that we saw, and didn't really expect
SL IV PC-131H/2
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

was the in the vestibular area, of how these crews could

perform at levels which exceeded the - their preflight base-
line levels without any symptomatology whatsoever in zero g.
QUERY I realize the radiation environment in
Earth orbit's different than it was in - since lunar - or trip
to Mars or anything, but did you see anything in your radiation
studies that would indicate a need for more protection or
less protection or anything like this? Any change in what
you previously knew?
HAWKINS No. Not from the standpoint of levels of
radiation that we saw. The levels - and I don't have these
actual figures here with me, but the levels that the crews
saw in Skylab were always below what we predicted. Now, that's
total cumulative dosage over the period of time. It's always
below what was predicted, and it's certainly below any designed
critical levels. I think that there now we're going to have
to take another look at this, I think that there are some
possibilities that when you go through certain latitudes or
certainly through the South Atlantic anomaly, that you may be
picking up higher rates of radiation at that particular time,
and we probably need to take a further look at this as we begin
to understand more about what we've learned from - certainly
from Skylab IV in - in the light flashes, studies and all this
that we've been able to do in passin_ through those - that
anomaly and also the northern and southern latitudes. But,
here again, the total dosage and all has well been below any
established critical levels of exposure, and therefore the
crew should certainly not experience any problems whatsoever.
PAO Bill (garble)
QUERY Yeah. You didn't indicate any surprise
at the fact that the red blood cell mass was only half in this
crew as compared to the others - -
WILMARTH Well - -
QUERY You have any theories as to why that is?
HAWKINS I here again, the maximum loss I believe
in III didn't appear until the second sampling either, so we
may be seeing a further loss in that. I'm - I really you
know, I really don't know what to make of it yet.
PAO Okay. If we have no more questions of
Dr. Hawkins, thank you sir, we'll move on to the next part of
the program. Bob?
GORDON Okay. The next one will be Wilmarth, who
will talk about some of the EREP results.
WILMARTH I didn't mean to run everybody off, but
I want to do two things this afternoon. And that's primarily
to talk about what we have overall accomplished relative to
EREP, Earth resources, and then another aspect of Earth resources
and that has to do with the visual observation project that we

i )l
!l_
SL IV PC-131H/3
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

initiated for SL IV, and to give you a brief review of what

the crew observed; some of the things that they'll be talking
about tomorrow and showing you some rather striking photographs
of some of the the phenomena that they observed and that
they have photographed. Now, I want to back up a little bit
on EREP, because I think we lose track of what we originally
planned to do with EREP and try and give you a feeling of what
we have accomplished relative to the total objectives that we
first started out. I see that there's some people in this
audiance have already seen these slides, but I do want to go
back and recapture some of the things that we talked about at
the very beginning of EREP. So we can start out with the first
slide, please? EREP was conceived with a specific point in view,
and that is to determine how useful the spectral and spacial sen-
sors we have on board could be in Earth resources. Secondly, we
flew a series of microwave experiments and we needed to find out
how good they would be. How useful they would be in any -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCi31-1/I
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

WILMARTH - - and that is to determine how useful

the spectral and spaclal ensensors we have on board, could be
in Earth resources. Secondly, we flew a series of microwave
experiments and we needed to find out how good they would be -
how useful they would be in the Earth resources program.
Thirdly, what's the effect of the atmosphere. We had onboard
sensors capable of detecting the atmospheric constituents varying
and the effects of that kind of data on the overall processing
and analysis of data from the - from the other sensors is a
very important aspect as I'm sure you people recognize. We
move on to the next one, please. The total EREP program was
devised around essentially nine various program elements and
you can read these as quickly as I can. They represent the broad
disciplines beginning with geology, hydrology, cartography and
land use, and things llke that. But remember that these are
the major areas that we are planning to use the sensors to
determine how useful they would be in the - both from a scien-
tific and a land use or an application type program. We have the
next one, please. Contrary to some of the Skylab programs,
scientific studies, we have on board, a major segment of the
scientific communities both in U.S. and in 19 foreign countries.
We have 140 designated Pls. They are strongly supported by
a series of probably an additional 250 to 300 scientists that
are dlrectlysupportlng their activities. Now, to emphasize
to say a_ain, all of the data have not been distributed to
the Pls and I_ii talk of that a little bit later; none of the
data from SL_IV. So we're in the same boat as many other
investigators, Can we go on to the next one, please? To
give you a feeling with the distribution of the foreign Pls
here is the llst that you've seen before. There are 19 of
them. Again, our neighbors to the south, have considerable
interest £n Earth resources. Can we have the next one, please.
Can I have tkls one also? Now with that as a background, let's
turn briefly to what we accomplished in SL-IV. The ground
tracks that you see here, very similar to what we did on SL-III,
the SL_II ones are primarily - the ones on the far left with
the descending passes over the U.S. and down through South
America, III looks very similar to this with the exception
that we have a rather lonK arc. You will see that beginning
here, extending all the way around to the - to give us a complete
360 degrees cycle using the radar altimeter. But in general,
we kave 40 Z_LV passes. We had 5 solar inertials, primary to
look at some of the data from a solar inertial standpoint and
the funny looking llne that you see down over the U.S. and
South America; was one of the first EREP passes. That was
done l_n solar inertial mode and some of the results from that
are beginning _ some of the data are now beginning to be
processed and they are rather interesting from a oblique standpoint.
SL-IV PC131-I/2
Time: 13:03 CDT
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We - again, some of the differences from III is we took a shot

up over Iran and that part of the world and although we did
have considerable cloud cover, the data are of considerable
use to the Pls. Again, we shot down over Australia once,
twice, off over into Europe but this is a very had time of
the year simply from the standpoint there's a Sun angle that's
not very convenient to take data over there. So in general,
what we've taken, is essentially an additional 40 EREP passes,
operation of the sensors, and from the standpoint of total
sensor operation, they were all operational. We did do a
little mechanical fixing of the 193 antenna so that we'd only
have crosstrack mode instead of in-track mode. gut the data
are, of course, of direct interest to many of the investigators.
Can we go on again? Let's look at what we did for SL-IV and
then I'll move on to what we have accomplished on the total
mission. Regardless of the statistics, they still are avery
valuable and a very valid way of judging how good we did.
The 190A multlspectral camera, some 18,000 frames, and I will
comment here that finally, we did get data over our Houston
Area Test Site and as you well know, that's one of the major
areas of investigation here being conducted by the science and
applications, Earth observation division. We got again, a
good number of frames from the 190B. I have looked at some
of the new emulsion of the 190B color IR and people, it is
spectacular. The resolution that we are gettin_ from the new
IR data is really very good. The I think tomorrow, you will
see a shot of Birmingham, Alabama that will be very interesting
to most people who are involved in Earth resources. From an
operational standpoint_ as I noted, we did do a repair job on
the 193 antenna. During the - about the middle of January,
as a matter of fact it was January 15th, we changed out the 192
multispectral scanner detector. And this was done for a
specific purpose. We carried up with us on SL-IV, a new
higher resolution detector, specifically in a thermal band
channel 13. There was a program requirement to obtain as much
information on "geothermal data" as could be in order to determine
the capability of looking at variations in surface temperature
let's see, surface temperature variations under various con-
ditions, both from a terrain, from a daytime and a nighttime
data take. This was done and I'll show you an example of what
that _ those kind of data. In the - in the final analysis, of the
140 PIs, we did complete with the exception of 3 PIs and Dr.
Enastrosa (?), studying the upwellin_ areas off the coast of Peru,
we dfd not obtain any data for him or Dr. Geisner (?) over the
Chad area. As far as EREP data, we did not obtain any infor-
mation from him. And then for Dr. Stoyburr, we did not acquire
the data he needed in pre_dawn conditions in order to do his
thermal volcanic studies down in Guatemala. So those are all

L ! 21i!_
_
SL-IV PCI31-I/3
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140 PIs, we do have data for the PIs to do their final analysis
and complete their approved investigations which I think is a
rather a very definite credit to the three-man crews. As I
stated and I showed you an example, after 360 deRree altimeter
pass, data was acquired. Again, one of the storms in the
January 4 to January ii time frame, off the north Atlantic,
was one of the largest storms in a decade. We did acquire
successfully a series of optical and miercwave data over that
storm in order to determine the variations of sea state, wind
conditions, the wind conditions were upwards of 70 miles per
hour and wave heights were 40 to 50 feet, in order to determine
the utility. I go back again to the objective of how useful
our microwave data from space in studying the variations in
sea state and several other environmental conditions. Again,
you probably have looked at the snow and ice maps of the U.S.
We did get a considerable amount of data for snow mapping and
sea and lake ice studies over the U.S. I pointed out some of
the geothermal data, so let's go on to the next slide. Now,
the X-5 detector is a higher resolution capability in the
thermal channel. What we did was to take a series of data
takes, using the X-5 detector and you can see the areas that
we have acquired data. Commenting for a moment, we did a
pre-dawn pass over here, followed by a series of passes in
the daylight. We did down over this part of the world. These
were ground truth using both the heloeopter for ground truth
as well as ground stations in order to determine the actual
temperature variations. We did do a series series of - I
thought I could shout loud enough. We did do a - a very in-
teresting ground track down through here with ships taking
data actually the chemical and the temperature data. Word
came at the same time that we were overflying with the X-5
detector. In general then, we satisfied a program requirement
in order to determine how useful such a detector would be from
satell_tes in order to look at variation - -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI31-J/I
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WILMARTH - - program requirement in order to determine

how useful such a detector would be from satellites in order
to look at variations in temperatures both from a geothermal
energy source, in other words, detection of potential hot
springs or volcanic areas for use in studying and possible
development for geothermal energy. Again, the one over
- off the coast of Florida was done primarily to look at the
loop current sea surface temperature variations. The other
areas were, of course, of interest from the standpoint of
what are the - what is the detectable temperature variations
over different varieties of terrains. Could we go on to the
next one, please? This is an example of an image created
from the 192 X5 thermal detector. It's down off the coast
of - of New Orleans is actually Marsh Island. Marsh Island
is in here. Here is the Mississippi River comin_ down. As
you notice, the difference in temperature is rather obvious.
The land is brighter, warmer than the water and you can see
the variations here. Now, this is one of the first downlink
data that was during the mission, and it's obviously not as well
processed. Considerable data can be further obtained from
it, but it does give you a rather interesting idea of how
useful this kind of thermal detection capability is. Look
at look at the variations between the darker blue water
out in here and some of the pollution or some of the areas
in here which probably represents long shore currents in this
area. So, this is Just a typical example of the kinds of
imagery that you can get from an X5 detector with a - with
looking at variations in surface temperatures. The cities
little cities stand out very interestingly as bright spots.
You can see here the areas where - This spot, incidentally,
over here is not real. There are some flaws data dropouts
Can we go on to the next one, please? All right let's look
at EREP totally. Statistics again - some 22,000 feet of mag-
netic tape, some 34,800 frames of 190A, and some 5600 frames of
190B. In addition, you all know there's a series of DAC
film which are used primarily with the 191 to determine location
of the data collection. Let's look at what we did from the
standpoint of the - of the objectives. We set out to find
out how useful the microwave data are in Earth resources. We
d_d obtain excellent data over hurricane Ava, over hurricane
Christine. As I remarked the extratroplcal cyclone, the
largest in the decade over the north Atlantic, was sent some
successive passes, and we do have a tremendous amount of data
which will aid us in understanding how useful this sensor
is for the determination of possibly looking to the future of
other types of sensors and other types of satellites. The
SL-IV PC131-J/2
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altimeter data was acquired over several deep ocean trought,

including the Java trench, the Puerto Riean trench, the
Mariannes trench, and again the trip around the world, as
we jokingly spoke of the 360 degree altimeter run, does
provide us a rather new complete cycle of data on one pass
for looking at the geoidal characteristics of the Earth.
Turnin_ to some of the more - more, let's say, difficult
but rather interesting and certainly of prime importance to
the understanding of the - and the analysis of the other
sensor data, we did acquire much of the - much of the 192
data over a series of groundtracks with the ground with
the ground truth information in order to understand the
variations in total reflectance from the Earth with using
the aircraft as well as the 192 sensor onboard on EREP. This
is, of course, of interest in the atmospheric modeling and
of direct interest, of course, as I stated to the data
analysis program. As part of this in SL-II, Wabash River,
within an hour we obtained, on a clear day, the 190 - I say
all of the EREP sensors were operational, the ERTS overflew
within an hour, we had aircraft at 10:20 and 40,000 feet,
operating of concurrently, or near concurrently, a very similar
and a very complimentary set of sensors. Similarly in SL-IV,
we did the same thing over White Sands. Again this is known as
multistate sampling technique, but it does provide us a
way if evaluating utility of the sensors based on what we
would call ground truth or near surface aircraft and making
comparison with some of the unmanned ERTS type data. We
have the next one, please? Within the sensus cities program
being conducted by the U,S. Geological Survey, we acquired
a mass amount of data over 15 of the 18 sensus cities.
Specfically in the Phoenix area and also on the Washington
D.C. area. Their comments to us is that the EREP 190A, and
190B data are comparable to some of the high altitude
RB57 aircraft data. So, we know that we have certainly
approached a standpoint that how useful are these sensor_
in Earth resources, they're proving to be certainl) beneficial.
The modeling that we have done intrying to look at the
use of the oblique as well as the vertical 190B data in
trying to map inaccessible or vary your mode areas of the world,
has this modeling has progressed to the point where we
know that we can do a very useful topographic map from the
EREP data without any - without a major ground control program.
The area of un - area under study was done the Gran Chaco of
Paraguay, part of the of the major area which has not
been mapped. We have certainly demonstrated that the EREP
data can provide us that kind of modeling and that kind of
 SL-IV PCI31-J/3
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data for topographic mapping. Finally, and perhaps of

a lot of Pazazy interest has been the visual observation
program. The crew has observed and has acquired a tremendous
amount of unique information over areas that we were not -
that we had not photographed on previous manned missions
and over areas of the ocean which very little information
on sea temperatures, currents, island wakes, and things
like that had been acquired over the past years of study,
both from a ocean as well as from a aircraft program. Can
we go to the next ones now? Letts look at what we tried
to do with the the visual observation program. How good
can the crew he as a scientific observer, both from a
photo documentation standpoint, from an observer standpoint
in getting data of direct interest in scientific studies
of the Earth. This was a prime objective. We had onboard,
a very extensive data package with maps and illustrations
of the kinds of phenomena to be observed and the kinds of
features as well as the procedures to observe it. Now, to
look at what they accomplished, let's take a look at the
next one, please. Up through mission day 81 and we know
this is imcomplete, but here is a series of numbers that
give you the variety of features, dlcipllnes that they
observed. They represent essentially 85 different categories
of features or phenomena, something on the order of 800 to
850 observations and well over 1200, maybe 1500 photographs.
In part some of this is color IR, both Nikon as well as
Hasselblad. But in all of these the crew served and photo
documented exactly what they were looking at, therefore
the data are of direct interest and we have already proven
that it is of direct interest and they'll talk to you some
more about this tomorrow on some of these specific examples.
Let's go on. All right to kind of wrap up here are the areas
here it illustrates the kinds of data based on the color
chart that you can see over there. They observed a rather
tremendous amount of upwelllng Plankton blooms off in this
part of New Zealand, the a Alpine'fault has been photographed
and it's a tremendous example of data collection. Here again,
they looked at the currents here, you see the pinks are primarily
the desert sand dune areas. Geology is indicated, here is
the Afar triangle with the African rift shown through here.
Deserts here_ looking over here, the Humboldt current and
and the very interesting Falkland current which they'll talk
to you tomorrow as well as the Yucca,an current

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI31±K/I
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WILMARTH as indicated. Here is the Afar

trlangle with the African rift zone through here. Deserts in
here. Looking over here, the Humboldt current, the fault
the very interesting Falkland Current which they'll talk
with you tomorrow, as well as the Yucatan current. Again,
the ice islands and the general areas in here. This gives you
a general feeling of the areas that the crew observed and
collected data. So in summary I think that we can say that
that EREF as Bob already has indicated has far surpassed
what we thought was going to be accomplished. We know it's
going to be several years down the pike as to when we're
going to get some results. As an example or let - let me
comment for a moment the results are now beginn_n_ to be put
forth, as a matter of fact, we are having (garble) at AGU on
April 8th a summary of - with about i0 of the PI's to give a
preliminary summary of what they have learned. We are also
having here, as Bob indicated a science conference in July with
all the PI's commlng in to give us a status of where they
are, what they are doing, how far they have progressed in their
data analysis. Of course, this is a very massive effort. It's
not a very easy Job to look at somethin_ on the order of
34,000 frames of data, although each PI doesn't get this, this
is recognized. Nevertheless, you look at a - one photograph
co_erlng something on the order of 3606 square miles obtained
from the 190B and the variety of information can be obtained.
You readily understand, as a matter of fact, George Mall of
Hurricane Center in Miami stated rather emphatically that
he had spent two weeks observing and analyzing one photo-
graph obtained on on the 190B in SL-III. So we do have
a massive job ahead of us. The data distribution is well
underway from SL-II and SL-III probably 75 to 80 percent
of all the data has been distributed to the PI's. We have
one major area of concern and thatts the 192 which is a
multispectral scanner. We had - had problems in processing
the data and we are delayed ±n that. And distribution of
the data probably is going to beg_n something in the order
of the May time frame. So that over all ladies and gentle-
men is a summary of what we have acccmplished, I think it's
been a great mission.
PAO Thank you Dick. Orson.
SPEAKER Well Dick if data reduction analysis
takes so long what does this do as far as working on a second
generation EREP that could be put on future spacecraft either
manned or unmanned?
WILMARTH All right, I think the answer to that is
that is that we intend to get, as I indicated in July, a very
quick status of where we are and what wetve accomplished.
SL-IV PCI31-K/2
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And from that I'm sure that we will be able to - to give a -

a rather firm understanding of what kind of - of sensors;
let's say what our EREP sensers have dene. That was one of
the major objectives of what we tried to get done here. In other
words, how useful is the 13 channel scanner? How useful is
the 190 B with a 30 meter resolution capability, or the co2er
IR, which may or may not be a - a total total picture. But
we certainly will have at that time the utility of the micro-
wave data. Those those PI's have really gone to work and
we will have that data available certainly. So we will have a
considerable amount. Now with the 192, of course that presents
a different problem. Okay.
PAO Bill.
QUERY Dr. Wilmarth, could you tell us in what
way that - did Skylab prove that you need men to operate these
instruments or could you take the same instruments and use
them on - on ERTS. And do you have any if it does prove
that you need men up there can you give us specific of how
or why?
WILMARTH We - the fact that man was there, they
were already flying Skylab, and of course, we came on at a - at
a very late date to get our EREP sensors on board. So the
concept of Skylab was already established. During SL-IV the
the crew did observe and did use their options to turn on and
turn off and plan some of the the data taking for to optimize
the collection of data with the - with the sensors. Now in
direct responce to your question, there is no doubt but what
some of the sensors can be operated remotely. The - whether
the man is needed or not, of course, is depending upon whether
there is a need to change out film or something of this sort.
No_ some of the results of the altimeter data analysis are
being used by federal agencies to determine the utility or
the shape, size specifications of the sensors on board a - a
GOC microwave satellite.
QUERY So in other words, Skylab IV then didn't
definitely prove that you need men up there to make Earth
resources observations.
WILMARTH We did - from an EREP standpoint, the sensors
probably can he designed - developed so that there is not a
need for a man. But I think that one of the - the things
that we did prove is that that utility of the sensors and
operational capability of the sensors with the capability of
chan_nR as we did on on the SL-IV the 192 detector did
optimize the - the utility of that sensor and that data.
And again I go to the visual observations where they did
obtain some rather interesting and heretofore new data on
various of the ocean phenomena.
SL-IV PCI31-K/3
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PAO Lou Alexander.

QUERY Will the data from those snow and ice
studies be available to - to the PI's in time to provide
them _ith information they can check out on agriculture and
flood control. I presume that has to be this year.
WILMARTH Yes, we are planning right now the distribution
of the SL-IV data by May. Certainly all of the optical data
will be distributed by May. Processing of the 192 is going
to be delayed as I said we won't start that probably until
May itself. But all of the other data will be processed and
distributed.
PAO Howard.
QUERY What is the problem with the S192?
WILMARTH We've got a (garble) of the noise problem.
QUERY Was it all the way throuzh all three
flights?
WILMARTH It's worse in the early 192 and it gets
better in the 193, and we haven't looked at the 194.
Although the data that we did get on the EDDU or the down-
link data that you've already seem here indicated that the
data are really very good. So, it's a - it's a kind of
kind of hand - hand cultured processing of the data to meet
the PI requirements. It's a rather complicated gadget.
PAO Paul.
QUERY Did you recover all the data that you
lost through the - because of the absence of filters during
several passes early in Skylab IV?
WILMARTH We are - at the present time we have
processed the color for the 190-A of the first ten - eleven
passes that we took, and that's good. We have not - we have
not proces processed any of the other channels or any other
camer8 stations until we see a little more experimentation on
it. But we are - we don't see any reasons - any problem in
trying to process it. We know that the color is very good.
PAO Louis.
QUERY But concerning the design and procedures
for the insturments, you lost four passes on SL-II because
one step in calibration had been omitted or or align -
alignment. And you lost a few passes or partially lost them
in SI-IV because the filters were omitted. Are you satisfied
that you can design machines and procedures that you can send
up on ERTS that will he alright?
WILMARTH Yeah, I guess we are I guess we can do
that. I mean it's - it's Just like anythin_ else if you've
got the time and the money you could probably design it so you
wouldn't have that kind of s problem, Louie, is that what you'le
asking?
SL-IV PCI31-K/4
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QUERY Yes, but now let's, if you don't mind,

let me refine it a l_ttle bit. Art Hill was talking about
quick look or you telling about a qu_ck look so that you
could get your second generation equipment recommended for
a - an upcoming ERTS flight. Do you think that - -
WILMARTH Do you mean for the ERTS-B_ is that what
your talking.
QUERY Yes sir. Are you satisfied that you
can make recommendations for that?
WILMARTH I would say that from the July conference
that that probably is relatively very late in trying to get
any inputs into the ERTS-B. If that's the question you're
asking I didn't understand that one. No I thought you
were talking about shuttle and beyond, right. But as far
as ERTS-B that's set in concrete as far as 1 kncw.

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI31L/I
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WILMARTH Relatively very late in trying to get any

inputs into the ERTS-B. If that's the question you're asking,
Art, I didn't understand that one. No, I thought you were
talkin_ about Shuttle and beycnd, right. But as far as
ERTS-B, that's set in concrete as far as I knew.
PAO Jim Malloy.
QUERY What phenGmenon were they trying to detect
or shoot when tbey were taking pictures of Russian launching
sites?
WILMARTH Well, I Just don't know the answer to
that one myself. No, I really don't. I knew they took some
handheld over Russia, but -
QUER_ Who requested that they shoot them?
WILMARTH Is that ERTS is that ERTS satsl-.
lite? We did take the Gobi Desert sand dune study photo-
graphy on SL-IV, but on - not on any that I kncw of EREP -
we dldn't do any EREP data, and I'm sure they didn't do any
handbeld over the Russian launch sites. If they took any,
that was probably done by the ERTS unmanned satellite
out of Goddard. At least, I don't know the answer to that.
PAO Okay. then?
WILMARTH Dom't ask me, I don't - you're the expert,
(Laughter)
PAO Okay, Dick, thank ycu very much. Next
we have Dr. Jack Eddy of the High Altitude Observatory who'll
discuss the ATM and solar science. Jim was reading Jack
Anderson.
EDDY I'm here representing the six experiments
on the ATM from five organi2ations and I guess, I'ii list them
for you quickly, since I'm not a part of any of them_ and I want
to make sure they're properly credited. It's the ultra-
violet spectroheliograph of Harvard College Observatory,
the X-ray telescope of the American Science and Engineering Com-
pany, the X-ray telescope of NASA, Marshall Space Flight
Center, the white light coronagraph of High Altitude Observa-
tory, the extreme untraviolet spectroheliograph and ultraviolet
spectrograph of the Naval Research Labaratory.
QUERY Can we have your name?
EDDY Yeab, it's Jack Eddy, I'm from the High
Altitude Observatory. I've been called in as sort of a neutral
arbitor to give you a summary of the solar results from SL-IV.
Speaking on behalf, I think more of the solar physics community
than the principal investigators, so I hope I'Ii have your answers.
I want to give you a few highlights of SL-IV then a very quick
summary of the entire mission anticipating your questions, which
I understand comes which is, "what do we know now that we didn't
know last May about the Sun?" And finally, I want to have time
for questions. As was explained to you earlier today, the
SL-IV PCI31L/2
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experimental film is a long way from being ready. The - all

of the experimenters I have talked to just within the last
few heurs can report that the film is partly processed. All
but one have begun processing; none has completed processing.
So I - they haven't seem for the most part their data, let
alone being ready to give me any pictures to show you, so I
don_t have ary mew pictures for you as you were told. That
always makes me thing of the - being put in the position of
Snow White in that movie where she sang "Someday My Prince Will
Come", but they're not here today. I can say that they are
all immensely satisfied with the results of SL-IV as they
are with the whole mission, with the performance of the
astronauts and with the performance of the instruments.
And I woulG remird you that these telescopes that are on the
ATM are as complex as any that man has ever turned on the
sky, and I think that's true from tbe ground or from orbit.
So it _s really quite amazing. And in this case, SL-IV is
unique in that the mission was finished with all systems
operating and going strong, There were no disabling failures
in SL-IV. There is a partial one _n SO54 that was cured,
and I_ii mention that one in a minute, but the mission was
fin£shed with everything going strong. This included the
five extra eamerssp which were taken up for this missio_, which
made possible an extra 25,000 pictures. And again to give
you an idea Qf how this thing was pushed to the very bitter
end_ I got the report from Bob MeQueen on experiment SO52
last Friday, that in the films that they got back, their
roll - their one magazine of film is 650 feet, or about 8000
frames, on the supply spoo_ that wss broepht back with one
foot of unused film. So_ it was really squeezed out unt_l
the last. I think thetis what the sports testers call extra
effort, and I think _t's really something. The picture count,
l_m not supposed to tell you, I guess, the total numLer, but
it ccmes out to. be about 600 a day over the 9 months ef the
mission. And that is something when you also realize that
each of these Fictures _s the stale of the &rt. It's as good
as any thet has been taken_ and I think that's really some-
thin_. The highlights of SL-IV as I see them are these:
one, the observation of tbe trapsit of Mercury on the 10th
of November. thmt was just be£ore the manned phase of this
last mission. When the planet moves across the disk of the
Sum, it appemrs, of course, as a very t_ny dot there. It's
diametel is only l0 arc seconds, which comes out to be, in our
earlier press release, 1/400,000 the size ef the Sun. As
it mcves across it appears as sort of a dot. When it goes
across_ here is a picture, that's all I've got to do is hold
it up where you call see Mercury here, here, here, here, here,
SL-IV PCI31L/3
Time: 13:03 CDT
2/21A74

here, here, and here. If I turn it rightslde up, it's that

little dot here across the disk of the Sun. Here we see it
actually moving out, backlighted by the corona in this line
of magnesium -X. So the observation of that phenomenon has
to be a highlight. It help astronomy in two ways, one is by
hacklighting the planet illuminating it from the rear, it gives
you a chance to probe the planetts atmosphere. Doctor Reeves
told me this noon about the progress of that analysis. He
does see the gradient of an atmosphere on Mercury in the
ultraviolet_ and that's kind of an exciting thing that we can
see that distance small object*s atmosphere. He can also
analyze it then by looking at the spectrum in more detail,
and he_s not ready to give us that result. The second way
it helps astronomy is in solar physics. It extends the
resolution limit of the instruments that observe it. In this
_ase the Harvard College spectroheliograph. As you recall,
the resolution limit of the Harvard College limit is about
five - -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PcI3i-M/I
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EDDY - - Second way it helps astromony is in

solar physics. It extends the resolution limit of the
instruments that observe it; in this case Harvard College
spectroheliograph. As you recall the resolution limit of
that Harvard College instrument is about 5 arc seconds which
corresponds to roughly a featured 2000 miles across on the
surface of the Sun, fixed by the optics of the telescopes.
By watchinK a very small object this one move across in
time, you can actually trick optics into giving you a finer
picture of the Sun by watching what it covers and uncovers.
And in this way, they were able to see features down to about
1/5 that size or 400 miles across, 1 arc second on the
surface of the Sun. To give you an idea of that, to say on
a room this wide, if you would let the room represent the disk
of the diameter of the disc of the Sun, the sort of detail
that Dr. Reeves and the Harvard group see by watching this go
by corresponds to a dot as small as I could draw on that
board. About a tenth of an inch, in 20 feet so you're
really lookln R at fine detail. And sure enough, when he
looked in fine detail in the ultraviolet, there was a
structure of it that size on the Sun. That's Just been
the history of our study of the Sun. The finer you look at
it, the more fine detail is there, The Mer - transit of
Mercury occurrs about 16 times per century. The last one
that occured was in 1970, the one before that was in 1960.
They don_t always come out every 6 years llke that so
we were very lucky that one of them occurred during the time
Skylab was up, and more than that we were very fortunate that
there were clever enough technicians and support to point the
telescope just right during the unmanned phase, to capture
this thing, as it goes along. Other astromoners by the way
use transits of Mercury to look at fine detail. That
technique had been done before, but never in the ultraviolet.
Certainly a transit of mercury had never been observed before
in the ultraviolet. The second feature, an annual eclipse of
the Sun was observed on Christmas Eve, the 24th of December,
while the instrument was in the man mode. The it's not
an complete ecllspe as seen from the ground. Still a ring
of the i Sun appears if you were right on the band of Tataoudi (?)
tower i which happened to stretch across the South America.
It was observed by Skylab on 6 orbits. The Skylab vehicle
forces an eclipse of the Sun by moving around so fast_ so
you actually change the geometry faster than nature gives
you this eclipse. So on the film records of this phenomenon
you see the moon on the downllnk records; the film hasn't
been looked at yet. Moving through the corona, well down into
SL-IV PCI31-M/2
TIME: 13:03
2/21/74

down into the occulting disk and back out again on 6 passes.
So this phenomenon was observed. That's two eclipses that
Skylab observed in 9 months which is this one and the other
being on June 30th on the unmanned mode. That's more than we
normally get in a year. Once again we were fortunate; we can't
take credit for their production at all. Just to make an
interesting contrast to you in that, on June 30th, the unmanned
Skylab observed an eclipse. On December 24th, the manned
Skylab observed an eclipse in the Sun with three men up there
operating it. For each of those, hundreds in the case of
Africa; thousands of scientists, went off to Africa to see the
same things in the atmosphere that the Skylab astronauts were
looking at, the chromosphere and the corona. And fairly
expensive expedition if you will, by ships, by airplanes, by
every way. The people on the ground got a chance to see them
for a couple of minutes. In the case of the South American
eclipse is an annualar eclispe; they couldn't see the corona.
In Africa, a very long eclipse, they got 7 minutes of viewing
time. The Skylab was up there watching it every pass. And all
the time in between those two esclipses. I think it says
something about cost effectiveness here, we ought to think
about. Maybe IVll get a chance to talk about it later. The
third highlight of the thing was the observation of the famous -
infamous Comet Kohoutek, about which we'll here more in the
next report. I want to say why the observations of that comet
by the white light coronagraph are unique. Man has observed
many comets and he watches them as close as he can as they come
into the Sun. But at some point, no matter how bright a comet
is, whether it is bright as advertised or not as bright as
advertised, you lose it in the glare of the Sun. And one way
that man has thought about many times of watching the comet
as it gets,close - it's most interestin_ part of this orbit is
by the use of a coronagraph and indeed this has been tried in
the past. The weather has stopped us; the atmospheric scattering
has stopped us. This is one time, when it didn't stop us
according to the downlink pictures anyway. And I think, again,
the test development of the H-AD film shows that it's going
to be as good as expected. I will make a prediction that the -
when that picture becomes available to you, and I'm just awfully
sorry that it's not available to anybody today, but I'll predict
and not having seen it, that it _s goin_ to restore a little bit
of the lost glory to Comet Kohoutek. I think it's going to
be exciting to see that comet as it moves in to it's closest
part of the Sun. As it experiences this horrendous gravitational
pull of the Sun as it passes through the hottest blast of the
solar radiation. It was there within 16 million miles of the
Sun. And Skylab watched it go there and it watched it go out.
SL-IV PCI31M/3
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That's twice as close as Mercury. I think thatVs got to

be a first too, the first time man has ever watched a comet -
a middle class comet come that close to the Sun and back out
again. A fourth highlight, and Just in general, is that again
on this mission the ATM instruments observed a number of
spectacular solar features which Itm not going to list for
you now other than to mention the very large llmb prominence
that was seen on December 18 and 19. Estimates at the time,
I think, still stand: that it probably was as large as any
that has been seen in the last quarter century. That may
not mean it's the largest since then. It probably tells
that our observations of the llmb of the Sun haven't been
that complete for 25 years. Secondly, the complete observation
of at least one flare sequence from start to end, you
know, all wavelengths, and a very dynamic limb event on
January 13 and 14. The real importance of these isn't that
it was the largest prominence or that it was a bright flare
or that we even that we saw so much of it in time. I
think the real importance to solar physics is that we have
complete coverage of it by a number of (garble) instruments
trained on it, operating simultaneously, programmed as cleverly
as we can to do it. It's really an organized onslaught on
these rare occurences. I would ask you too to think about
the comparison between Skylab and say, the International
Geophysical Year. If you remember about 16 years ago in
1957 when one of the aims of that was to get complete coverage
of dynamic phenomena on the Sun. And for this purpose chains
of station were set up around the Earth with hydrogen-alpha
telescopes and any other instruments they could to try to
be (garble) to catch events like this. Indeed, they caught some
but they were limited in how much of it they could see. They
could only see Just one layer of the chromoshpere. You may
also remember that back in the International Geophysical Year
there was a thrust to try to find out whether flares had
any ultraviolet or X-ray emission. An@ if they were_ was it
important? We know now that it is terrible important but
only 16 years ago, we didn't know if it was there at all. And
in that case we sent the Navy to see in the Caribbean with
ships and rockets, baloon-borne rockets and all sorts of
eloborate things. Once again with the warning net to give us
a warning of when they would occur. When the flare was reported
to be starting, the rocket were sent off to try to find out
was there X-ray or ultraviolet emission. Some of that was
thwarted by the communication problem come up in a flare.
When they tried to report it, out the ionoshpere was disturbed
so the ships couldnlt here it. But they did find out that there
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was a little of these radiations but now, in the last year,

we are looking at them in grave detail over the entire
ultraviolet and X-ray spectrum and that is a tremendous advance.
An overview of Skylab as a whole, quickly and the reason I
put that on the board was just to remind you of where we start
in the solar cycle and that's the very roughly drawn count

END OF TAPE

_ __!ij__
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EDDY to the entire untravlolet and X-ray

spectrum, and that is just a tremendous advance. An overview
of Skylab as a whole quickly 9 and the reason I put that on
the board was to remind you of where we are in the solar cycle,
thatVs the very roughly drawn count of Sun spot number as
astronomers define it. As a function of time, the last maximum
is in 1969, the one before that, 1958, the one before that,
1947, you know all that. You may not remember that the maximum
there in 1958 at the time of the GY was - was the highest
every observed, about 200. And that with the Skylab mission coming,
most of us were pretty pessimistic about what sort of activity
we were going to see. The extrapolated number there, you see,
goes down to a Sun spot count of like 20 or 30 durln R this period
of time; that's a monthly average number, but it could be zero
on many days. And I think that's what people sort of feared
would happe_ during this mission. I'm next going to show you
a plot, it1"s the second viewgraph_ the one thatts not colored -
or not bound, which is a magnification of the solar cycle
during the Skylab mission. This is a - yeah, - this is on
this decllnln_ phase, but look how good the Sun was to us.
Here's the same scale that's over on the board there. Here is
100, the height of the last Sun spot maximum, here's 130, and
50, and down here's zero. Launch of SL-II was back here way over
to the left. The first mission I1ve colored in in green to show
what happened to Sun spot number during those 28 days. You
see we went through a minimum and a maximum during this
checkout period. The second, SL-III misslon_ occurred here and
data were taken in manned operation over this range. How could
we be so lucky. This was when - time came when the Sun
spot number went up to just about to 130 at a time when we
expected the Sun spot cycle to be tailing off towards zero. Again,
this happens as fluctuations most of the time throughout the solar
cycle. But for this, the jump up that high and give us the
picture of a really active Sun has just got to be something
we should really be thankful for. The next part of the mission,
and if we can slide that over Just a little bit, I think there's
a little more information here. This is the SL-IV time period.
As you notice, the overall envelope is coming down, so during this
last mission, the solar activity was a great deal and we see
here this phenomenon that was reported to you in which people
like Nell Scheeley and all who are - and Joe who are in on
this mission operation knew very well, and that was that the
Sun had two faces. It was presenting to us a very hot and
active face and then a very quiet face. Here's a period of six
days when the Sun spot count was zero_ another period of six
days when - four days when it was zero, and inbetween, a very
active other hemisphere of the Sun. So, if we had been able
to program the Sun to produce some activity for us during Skylab,
SL-IV PCI31N/2
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I don't think I would have programmed it much different than

the way it came out. But we do see that overall the activity
was considerably lower during this last mission; I think you
all know that. And that ts all for that slide. What do we
know now that we didn't know about the Sun before? About the
structure of the solar atmosphere, we now have a record in all
wavelengths of the temperature and density of the solar atmos-
phere. I should say, at all heights. WavelenEths are directly
related to heights in the atmosphere. By making observations
of the Sun not only when it's active, but when it's quiet, we
can build up this data and, therefore, a model of the quiet
and active Sun. Those results are the ones that you're going
to have to wait quite a long time for. But we do have now, I
think, a complete set of data to go into that - that model.
About flares, we have a complete picture now - a time picture
and a wavelength picture of these dynamic events, and I just
mentioned that in our status now as compared to what it was_
say, I0 years ago. About the corona, we had looked at the
corona in X-rays before, but never with this kind of detail,
and never - never day after day. We know for sure now that
it's complete folly to talk about the corona as being a million
degrees, or a certain density, or a certain anything. It seems
to be so changin K and fluctuating. In the X-ray region, it seems
pretty clear now that we can classify as our next step of
approximation, the corona as being: corona holes where there
doesn't seem to be any corona; active regions where the corona
is very hot, and the residue of active regions. It's very
startlin_ new knowledge of the corona that we didn't know at
all before and couldn't have know before, is in the shape and
the chan_es in the solar corona as it's seen in white light,
that is, distribution of electrons in the outer corona of the
Sun, through the coronagraph. And there, too, you have to stop
and think about the effort that mankind has gone to over the
years to try to see the corona to try to build up just a few
observations of it. You've heard these numbers before, but let
me give them to you again that we have roughly one eelispe a
year. The average length of time that we can see the corona
during an ec - total eclispe, is about 2 minutes. That means,
like 2 minutes a year that anyone of us has, if he's lucky and
well funded enough to see them. By combinin_ peoples observations
over the length of _ the Earth over which an eclispe is seen,
that observation period can be extended to maybe an hour per
year, And that Is if everybody works together and everything
works out okay. So, that's a hundred hours per century. That
says that if everythin_ goes right, that when SL-II splashed
down on the very first mission, they had on board more pictures
of the corona than mankind had ever had up to that point. And
SL-IV PCI31N/3
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that includes the fact that people have been observing the corona
since many - literally thousands of years before Christ. In
terms of records of it, we'd never had that kind of record, and
that is kind of a gee-whiz number, too. The really important
thin_ is not that wetve got so many thousand pictures of the
corona_ but that we_ve got them in a time sequence over a
regularly planned and intelligently thought out way, so that we
watch it change. And that is the other thin_ about the corona -
that the Sun, we certainly didntt know before Skylab, and that
is how much it chanKes. We didn't have any idea how the corona
chanKed really i especially the outer corona. And man's been
tryin_ to find that out for many years. I was just at the
Naval Obseryatory a few days ago looking through some old stuff
tkere and found that in 1886, an elaborate experiment was
carried out to try to find out whether the corona chan_ed.
And this was done by settin_ up one ecllspe station for that
particular eclispe of that year in Russia, one in China, and
trying to find out whether - by comparin_ the pictures between
these two stations whether they could detect any chanKe. Well,
guess what happened? The Russian ecllspe was clear, the
Chinese was clouded out. That started a series of thln_s
and this experiment has been tried many, many times, but we
never have been able to detect any change. People have also
looked for transient features in the corona, and although
these have been hinted at by radio techniques, we could never
seem them optically. You're well familiar with the coronal
transients - the small slide, if I can have that now, reminds
you of one of those, this one is from SL-III. That - a better
focus_ I hope - that sort of thing was sort of dreamed of,
but certainly never seen. If it was dreamed of, we kind of
had the hope that if there really were those thln_s there,
maybe we_d see one. And Dr. McQueen tells me that they've
seen literally scores of them durin_ this mission. You're
lookln_ at probably one of the best ones taken in August, but
they're numbered llke that, and you've been given those pictures
before. Thatts a complete surprlse. I think if I were to
say finally, what is the most important sln_le accomplishment
of the Skylab ATM solar experiment package, it's this, that's
it'S shown the power of this way of looking at the Sun - -

END OF TAPE
s -Iv P¢-131-0/i
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EDDY I think if I were to say, finally, what is

the most important single accomplishment of the Skylab ATM
solar experiment package it's this: That it's shown the power
of this way of looking at the Sun; this coordinated attack
method. Of all astronomical objects, you must concur that the
one is the most important to man is the Sun. Even though it's
easy to see out the window, when you really stop and think
about it, it's almost audacious to think that we could be able
to really look at it in great detail and understand it in
detail, by techniques that the previous group up here
called remote sensing. Looking at something thatts 100 million
miles away and to really think that we could conquer it in
the way that we think that we're getting to now. I think of
it, the comparison of Skylab and say, the single experiment
approach or the single experimenter approach in terms of attacking
this great problem, I think a good simile is sort of like
David and Goliath_ We're attacking a big thing. And in Skylab,
we've gone from this slingshot stage to literally a firing
squad, where we have elaborate things all trained upon it
at once and this has really paid off. It's been done, by the
way, over the feelings of many of us about whether that
was the best way to do it and whether it would work. But the
doubters are convinced among the scientist; it's not only
the principal investigators in solar physics who are rejoicing,
itts the entire solar physics community because they're all
folded into it. And last_ once more let me say, the role of
the astronaut, I just dontt think thereVs any doubt about
that in anybody's mind that that was the thing that really
made it go, Each experiment was salvaged at one time or
another by astronaut intervention. By pinning the door that
had locked shut, by removing foreign material that had fallen
on the coronagraph occulting disc, by reaching in, as they
did durinK this mission, with a screwdriver at hand to turn
the filter wheel that was Jammed in the wrong position. Each
of these experimenters told me that he felt genuinely that
the thing that snatched victory from defeat was having the
astronaut there. And thatts not saying anything about the
way they directed the experiment, conferred with the ground,
help decide what to look at. I wish you could see a movie
that I saw just a few days ago, which was a quick run-through
of the hydrogen alpha pictures of the Sun on, I believe it
was the second mission. So here you see a very accelerated
picture of activity on the Sun. Over Just a few minutes, you
see the Sun zip by and change rapidly as this was made into
a movie. Astronomers have done this before, too. But the
thing that impressed you here, the crosshairs of the pointed
SL-IV PC131-0/2
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cluster were on there. And as the Sun came around and any-
thing active came around, zip, there went the crosshairs right
to it. And if somethin_ else didn't show up here and up they
would go. And there was a record that just was terrible
impressive about how they were taking every target of opportunity.
They, I mean the people that were here controllin_ on the
ground and the astronauts up there. But nothin_ was missed.
I can't imagine anything more efficent than that operation in
astronomy. You start to see somethin_ and as an astronomer,
you'd picked it out. That looks a little interestin_ and the
next thing you knew the crosshair was on and by golly, they
got it. I think that was the story of the mission.
PAO Dr. Eddy, thank you. If you have a
question, please wait for the mike. Bill, microphone.
QUERY Have you had any better idea or feeling
as to what causes flares and how the corona receded from
below to such a high level?
EDDY You're really on to the right questions
and I don't think that I can say we've now answered either
of those questions. We have the data to answer them now,
in time and in spectral coverage, Those are certainly
two important questions to be asked from these data.
QUERY And you feel you can't answer them right
now?
EDDY I think the data is there to answer them,
yes.
PAO In the back.
QUERY Probably miss it on my own tape_ Going
beyond those equations which I know will be a few years,
Dr. Eddy, can you tell us who will be usin_ that data? And
what he will be using to figure out with it? Such as magenetic
storms or electr - radioactive - radio storms, l_m sorry.
EDDY Yeah. First part of the question: Who
will be using that data? There are five experiment groups
but each of them has allied experiments literally around
the world. I don't know what the total number is; hundreds
of cooperating institutions. To give you an example of
the way they'll look at it in terms of Earth effects, we'll
look very hard at the data now for things in the corona,
that we're now getting an idea are the areas that extend on
out and effect the Sun. In particular these are now coronal
holes where we think the solar wind flows out much faster
and can be then extrapolated on to the Earth. We'll be
identifyin_ these in a very clear way now in the X-ray pictures
like in the AS and E data. We also see them in the white light
coronagraph data and in the ultraviolet data. And these will

!i ii_i
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be linked with interplanatary observations and with observations

on the Earth to try to establish a correlation. Does this
really coincide with something that happened on Earth, giving
a given lag-time. That sort of approach. That will be used
terrestrial effect applications. I think one thing here that
the Skylab has done too is let us look at the outer atmosphere
of the magnetic field that seems to control the emissions that
leave the Sun and reach the Earth. And in the X-ray pictures
of the corona and the white light pictures, we see this magnetic
field map for the first time.
PAO Well, if you have no more questions, Dr. Eddy
thank you very much. We'll move on now to Mr. William Snoddyp
Marshall spaceflight center was the Skylab Kohoutek project
scientist. Before we move on we have a change in plans for
tonight. A change in room numbers, so pick them up here.
SNODDY Let's get the important things first.
SNODDY I'm afraid that as far as showing you
results, we do indeed suffer from the snow white syndrome that
we mentioned awhile ago. We depend on, for our Kohoutek results,
on ATM and on the corrollary instruments and as you just
learned, the ATM data is not really available yet. And the
corollary is, that Dr. Parker referred to, that data is only
now becomin_ available. I have some information about how
it's looking, say I would say directly from the darkroom and
I'ii mention that as we go along. Dick Wilmarth mentioned
that ERFP was a little bit late getting on Skylab. Well, I
think Kohoutek is really a new comer considering the fact
that it wasn't discovered until, I think it was ii months
ago. And the fact that a comet of this size and it still is
a very nice comet so far as comets are concerned, did come
alon_ at this time is indeed a very delightful prospect.
This is the first time that a comet has ever been discovered
so far away from the Sun. That is 9 months away in time.
First time it's ever happened and it may never happen again.
Had it not been discovered just at the time that it was
discovered due to orbital considerations and so forth, it
would not have been discovered until possiblt last October
or very likely, last October. So we were very, very fortunate
to have this opportunity and I think it's a real testimony
to the flexibility of the Skylab type operation that we were
able to take as full advantage as we think we have taken of
this opportunity, The comets are a little bit llke the Sun in
that they are dynamic objects. And in order to understand
them you need to have synoptic data take over a period of time,
preferably with as broad a range of instrument as possible.
SL-IV PC131-O/4
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Because they tend to show up unannounced from directions - from

completely random directions that it's almost impossible to have
any kind of logically planned program. That again is why this
particular comet has been an opportunity.

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI31-P/I
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SNODDY from completely random directions that's

almost impossible to have any kind of logically planned
program, That aRain is why this particular comet has been
such an opportunity. We - and you need to get the data over
a dynamic range because you want to understand what a comet
is, where it came from, where it's going, the whole life of
the comet. As it comes in towards the Sun the different
materials that which it is made boil off at different rates.
And so you need to see how much of what material is there at
what time, and from this you can work backwards and try to
determine what it is that the comet is the nucleus of the
comet is made of. What is the model of the comet? Bob Parker
mentioned that we planned to have a Kohoutek meeting in
October. That particular meeting is a - a the one he referred
to as a IAU meeting on comets that was previously scheduled
several years ago to -and it will be in October. I'm sure
there will be a lot of Kohoutek papers at the meeting. But
it's become apparent that there are so many observations by
so many different groups that there is a real need for a
symposium just on Kohoutek. And this is bein_ looked into
and it may be that we will have such a symposium perhaps
as early as April - as May of this year. And at that time
then we'll really begin to see what - what sort of things
we really accomplished. It's like a Jigsaw puzzle, each
observation with each instrument is one piece of the puzzle.
At at the May meeting, if we have it then, all these pictures
of puzzle will be brought out and then the fun will begin of
tryln_ to fit them together and see what kind of model or
what kind of picture we come up with. I want to - I dontt have
- have anything in the way of Skylab results yet. I do have
somethin_ we'll come to in a minute. Let me do a brief,
shall we say, summary discussion of what we think we've accom-
plished using just a few viewgraphs here. Can I have the
first one please? This is a viewgraph that I_ve used down
at the Cape prior to the launch that showed the kind of
operation we wanted to carry out. I agree with Dr. Parker
the number of frames sometimes don't mean a lot. But in the
case of looking at something like a comet where you want to
watch it evolve, the number of observational opportunities
do mean something. So this is our wildest dream, the sort
of thln_s we thought we might come close to carring out. We
had a minimum program that we wanted to carry out that was
less than probably half this extensive. You see the various
instruments on the left there, the corollary instruments
and ATM instruments. And then the times when we would llke
to have observed if at all possible. This is the thing this
is call our - called our intensified program. And the next
SL-IV PCI31-P/2
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viewgraph shows you how we did compared to that. The red

dots are the actual observations that were made, And just
without trying to count anything you can see that we came
real close to almost reaching our dream program. Better
numbers are shown on the next viewgraph, summary numbers
which list the different instruments. The ATM is grouped
together down here. And these are the observational oppor-
tunities. And this is the minimum for the mission requir-
ment document based on what we felt like would make sense in
terms of the scientific program. This is the intensified -
extended intensified program where we tried to cover the
entire range of Skylab IV mission, And with intensified
observations, this is the kind of thing - our dream program
shall we say, and this is what we actually what we accom-
plished. And in almost every case we came - certainly exceed
the minimum in almost every case and came close to the
intensified. I think when we consider what was envolved
in carting out these observations, the fact that the space-
craft had to be maneuvered in a manner that they had really
had not given much consideration to before - The the timing
was very tricky because the comet always set just before the
Sun or rose just before the Sun. So you had to be careful
of the Sun in the case of the corollary instruments. You
had pointing problems to worry with; you didn't have much
you didn't always have a bright star handy to use as a
reference back when the comet was extremely dim at the early
and late part of the missions. And just procedures in
general and all of these sort of things I think is just
rather miraculous that we are able to carry out that much
of our planned program. Let me say a little bit about the
brightness of the comet, if I could have the next viewgraph.
This just shows you sort of thing that we were working with
here in trying to understand. What we have here is bright-
ness of the comet in stellar magnitudes along this scale
here. And to give you some idea of what this mean I've
plotted the brightest stars are along here. Jupiter resently
was about this brightness. Venus was up here, the full
Moon was up there. The dimmest star, which was on here but
got left off, is down here around sixth maKnitude, about
right in here. Then we have time along here just in time
nearest perihelion. And these are theoretical curves that
have taken into consideration the distance from the Earth to
comet because the nearer you are to the comet the brighter
it would appear, And the distance from the comet to the
Sun, because as the comet comes near the Sun the brighter
the comet appears, So these curves have taken that into

I !jl:
SL-IV PCI31-P/3
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consideration and there are two basic parameters that are

usually used in trying to fit a comet. One is this index N
here which has to do with the rate at which it brighten
up as it approaches the Sun, and you see a family of curves.
Different comets seems to follow different curves, it's not
quite understood why. And then this whole family can be
shifted up and down based on a kind of an intrinsic bright-
ness, a constant that's added to the formula. In this case
the constant has the value of 5. So you have this family
of curves and you shift it up and down to fit the data. This
is ground based observations that we were using to try to
understand what Kohoutek was doing. One of the first things
that we might point out is the scatter that you get in these
ground based observations. And these observations were
filtered by the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory. That
is people called in their observations to Smithsonlan who
is a clearing house for this sort of information. They in
turned fed us what they felt to be the most reliable and
best observations based on their past experience. So you
can see the kind of scatter you get. And you can see at
this - even in early December it's awfully difficult based
on what you have here to say for sure what the thing is
going to do. So it is it still appeared though that it
would fall - we shifted the curves up and down so that most
of them fell with in this range of - of values. And it
still appeared htat following the - in the perihelion and the
first part of January where the vls - the ground based observa-
tion would be the best - you can see it's nearer the Earth_ so
this side of the curve is higher than this side - that we should
be up in here comparable to the brighter stars and perhaps even
brighter if you - you know dreamed a little bit and thought
you were on one of those upper curves there perhaps. So even as
late as the toward the middle of December it looked llke
that we would still have a very nice visual object in the
January sky. That's what the Smithsonian was predicting and
we saw no reason to quarrel with them. Following perihelion
is the - the thing has it has dropped off and more rapidly
than even the lowest of these curves. This is not understood
really why. There has been quite a bit of speculation on it.
Perhaps as we gather more and more information on this, this
will become more apparent to us, a reason for this will
be understood. But it is very quite in - in the past I think
more typically if they change at all they tend to get
brighter rather than dimmer after they pass through perihelion.
Although that is not always the rule, certainly. So this is -
there is Just a lot that we dontt understand about comets, I
guess, is one thing this thing proves. And nevertheless, the
SL-IV PCI31-P/4
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the fact that it was not as bright as the public had expected
and as we had all hoped that it would be, it's still a very
attractive comet to say the least. And I think the next
viewgraph which is a ground based observation made in New
Mexico by a - an observatory run by Goddard and the Univer-
sity of New Mexico. This was made on January 14, this little
circle here is the size of the Moon, thatls a half a degree
just to give you an idea of scale. You see the two tails
here. The - I hope you can see it. The straight one here
is the gas tail we talk about made up of ionized particles
that are blown back by the solar wind, the low energy protons
from the Sun. And then this fuzzier one here that's kind of
curved to the left or up I should say is the dust tail,
which is made up of small particles on the average of less
than 1 micron in size. And they are blown back primarily by
the sunlight itself, the solar photons. So this comet is
an interesting comet. It does have these features. It's
been studied by a tremendous number of techniques and
astronomically speaking it's an exciting object. One of this
type - -

END OF TAPE

ii_:
"-iHE:
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SNODDY - so this comment is an interesting comment.

It does have these features; it's been studied by a tremendous
number of techniques and astronomically speaking, it's an
excitin£ object. One of this type does show up according to
Smithsonian about every 2 to 5 years, perhaps. However, the
trick is that they generally don't show up in time for you to
do anything about them. Comet Bennett, for example, which was
the last big comet of this type which came in 1970, I believe
it was the last one, was only discovered, I believe, 2 to 3
months, I forget the exact time, prior to perihelion. So,
that's more normally the case, you don't have any warning.
Suddenly, they're there and therets Just no time to gear up
any kind of good well-rounded program, You need that synergism
that you get from a number of instruments all doing their
thing. And with this one, we think we_ve got it. So it'll be
extremely interesting to see how - what we learned from all
these different results. Let me go on now to the next view-
graph. This is one of the - this is the viewgraph of the
photograph of the TV screen of the downlink of the sketches
that the astronauts did. This one in particular was done the
day after perihelion. From that we've reconstructed - we had to
get airbrush drawing. And if we could have the next viewgraft,
which is a first attempt to try to reconstruct the comet as they
saw it on these particular days. They were the only ones making -
able to make these observations as it was so near the Sun. This
is about 10 days before it got to the Sun when it was - as they
call it, a very graceful object. This was one day after it
passed nearest the Sun, this was as it appeared during their
second EVA. You see, this tail has swung around to the other
side, as it went pass the Sun, and leaving this spike which
is probably there all the time dependin_ on hich theory you
use to explain it. And then there are colors that are in the
original drawing that don't show up too well here, the orange
and the red and so forth which are thought to have to do with
either the kind of material or with the thermal effects or
things of this sort. In the comet then, this is 2 days after,
4 days after, 7 days after, and then back out here. And normal-
ly, on the ground, you would only see this observation and maybe
that one. Actually, you'd be lucky to get that near the Sun with
observations. You would miss all this entirely. So, for the
first time - this is the first time this sort of thing has
ever been seen that near the Sun. Welre quite excited just
over these visual observations. Maury Dubin, who's head of
the Commentary Office of NASA headquarters has said that this
probably constitutes one of the best scientific papers to
come out of this Kohoutek/Skylab program, Just these visual
observations in themselves. I might mention one other thinz,
too, that's kind of interesting is the spike remained there
SL-IV PCI31Q/2
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if you'd allow me to briefly try to explain this thing. Some

of the an_les aren't quite right on this. We now know more
than we did at the time that we put this thin_ together. One
thing, when we reversed it to try to get it pointed right in
respect to the Sun, we reversed it one time too many, and
the obtuse angle - this angle here - this tail here should be
more up. In other words, if you could just swap these two angles,
you'd have a more accurate situation of what they really
observed. But in effect, what happened is, this is the heavier
material that was in the orbital plane that was following the
comet. And prior to perihelion, the tail of the comet was
also following the comet as it came towards the Sun. So the
tail of the comet, more or less the dust tail, made up of
much lighter - smaller particles tended to mask this spike of
heavier material. This material here is probably less than
one micron in size on the average. This material here is
probably greater than i0 microns in size. But they are both
materials are here, you just can't tell the heavier from the
lighter because they overlap each other. After it went past
the Sun, the solar pressure of the light blew the lighter
particles so that the tail now, the long graceful tail, is
ahead of the nucleus of the comet; whereas, these heavier
particles are still trailing it, and so they now stay re-
vealed, so to speak. This has now been confirmed. At the
time these sketches first came down, we misinterpreted this.
We here - some of the people here working on this data, thinking
that this was more of an injection of material or else it
was a - a - the old tail looping way around, and this was the
tail way out somewhere and not heavier particles close in. We
now have confirmation that what I just told you is probably
the correct story because there has been infrared observations
that were made on the ground which indicated this region to
be hotter than this region, even though this is nearer the
Sun, the Sun is down here. This region is hotter than that.
And that's explained by the fact that these less the one micron
size particles, and that's where the particle size comes from,
is you explain this being hotter by assuming that the particles
are very small, less the one micron. Therefore, they are not
efficient radiators at the 8 or I0 micron wavelenKth they would
like to radiate the energy they're absorbing by the Sun. Not
being efficient radiators, they tend to get hotter, whereas these
particles - this is more near the (garble) temperature, there-
fore, you'd tend to think that these particles must be at
least the size of the radiation they're trying to radiate, there-
fore, they must be i0 microns or greater. That would - also
explains why these have been blown that way and and these are
remaining back here. But you need this combination of, for ex-
ample, the ground based infrared versus the visual to really
SL-IV PCI31Q/3
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begin to get an understanding of what really was going on. I

think that's Just one real quick example of that. The - oh,
yeah, one other interestinK thing, too, is that this spike here
would naturally become dimmer as it moved further away. Even
though, as it got further away from the Sun, ground based
observatories with the long time exposures similar to the one
you saw just in the previous slide, were still able to pick up
a little bit of spike. And in fact, it's still being seen.
And in fact, I learned yesterday with Smithsonlan that recent
observations have shown that the spike, instead of becomin_
increasingly dimmer as it moves further away from the Sun,
has started becoming brighter again. And that came as a real
surprise to them. I don't know if that means that more material
is - is coming loose from the nucleus and is is falling
into this region, or Just what it means. But that was an
unexpected phenomena that they learned about only the day before
yesterday or so. So, this continues to remain a an inter-
esting object even now. It's about 9th magnitude now, by the
way, which is still plenty bright. Smlthsonian says, as far
as they're concerned, they - they get excited over 15th magnl-
tudes_ a thousand or more times dimmer than Kohoutek is this
very day. The last viewgraft gives a summary of the highlights
and I'll just quickly try to run over - some of them are sem-i
redundant, if you'll pardon that. But we do have - the long
term coverage of the evolutionary development all the way, our
first observation of any sort was made on November the 23rd,
the last one on February the 3rd. We observed the occultation
of the scora pi the star Pi-Scorpio by the comet. And I'Ii
verbalize most of these for the benefit of the people that aren't
here to read it. By SO19, that data was taken. We hope, here,
that some of the material in the comet will show up in ab-
sorption, that doesn't normally show up in emission. In other
words, it will absorb the light of the star and we can
tell what the material is by the fact that the light from the
star looks different when seen through the comet and, therefore,
we can tell a little bit more abo_t what the comet is made of
by using this technique. We got our imagery, we hope, with
T025 on December 25 and 29th; that should be quite interesting.
to compare that with the astronaut views and that sort. We
got the ATM synoptic coverage and Jack Eddy referred to that
a while ago I wontt need to say any more about that except that
I think you could tell that they were quite excited about it
and I think that _s typical of most of the PIs that got data
on the comet. We got imagery with the $201 of the hydrogen
cloud development, and that has been done. This data is
available; it's just just becoming available, and I under-
stand the astronauts will be showing that tomorrow. They'll
be glvin_ some of the results of this, but it looks good.
SL-IV PCI31Q/4
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We have the photometric development. Just used the little Nikon

camera where they took a couple of shots, one or two shots
a day of the comet, --isible eye, Just to get this - instead of a
big scatter of data, we hope we have a nice smooth - not smooch,
necessarily, but a nice curve where we can see how the bright-
hess does vary and and really nail down, at least for one
comet, exactly what it did do in terms of brightness. How much
of those jlg_les we see are real and how much are just due to ground
base error of one sort or another. Then we have the OH cloud
that we think

END OF TAPE
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SNODDY - - on this. How much of those Jiggles

we see are real and how much are Just due to ground-base
error of one sort or another. Then we have the OH cloud
that we think we got with these instruments here. I see -
I want to mention back up here on S019, I talked to the PI
about ii o'clock this morning, literally Just out of the
darkroom and they were very delighted. They say they have
beautiful data with S019 on the comet, lots of spectral ]ines.
And of course they haven't had a chance to do anything with it
yet because we're literally Just developing films so that's
real good. The other data that's being developed right now
this - today, tomorrow over the weekend, we'll know a lot more
next week than we do now. Do you think we got spectrograph
observations over an extended period? We know we've got the
S019 information. We got some Lyman Alpha data from S055.
On S082 A and B, I understand from them they have processed
their data and it looks like maybe the results from that is
going to be marginal at best. There may not be much information
there. But we do have the spectral information from S019
anyway. And again S082B, we apparently may not have information
here. This is probably premature to say for sure until we get
a better look at the data. The astronaut observations and
your periheloun, I've already talked about. They were the
first to detect that antitail and kind of alert people to
the fact that it was there. We may have got data w_en the
comet passed through the orbital plain or when the Earth
passed through the comet's orbital plain. We got the S052
information. Again, these timelapse observations, that
should be quite nice. We may have gotten some extra imagery
This would be pretty much a long shot. We -that would depend
probably on there being an X-ray event on the Sun which would
then excite the comet's nucleus and it in turn would floresce
in the X-ray region. We don't know whether this occurred
while we were looking at the comet wlth these instruments
or not because the Comet was on the backside of the Sun and
the X-ray event would have to be on the back side of the
Sun, and we have no way of knowing whether there was one at
the time we were taking these exposures or not. The data is
not yet available for us. Then last and probably most important
of all is Just the fact that we have recorded similar summary
observations with the sounding rockets and the spacecraft,
ground base observatories. We -copernicus for example
only the OAO 3, I believe it is. We were only able to observe
Kohoutek when it is at least 60 degrees away from the Sun.
And the first time it has been 60 degrees away from the Sun,
I believe is on February 28, I'm sorry, January the 28. So
it could not start it's observations until then. But it's observing
SL-IV PCI31R/2
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in some of the same spectral regions that ATM has been observing.
Of course that overlapped real nice and we have the ATM data
up until that point and then we pick up with Copernicus
and it's continuing to observe right now. And will do so
up until the middle of March or so at which time I believe
the comet again comes back in towards the Sun at least along the lin
line towards the Sun. So they're going to have to quit observing
at that time. So we optimistically we have a lot of good
information and we're just real anxious to see if indeed we do
or not. I think that about covers it.
PAO Okay, Bill, we have questions?
QUERY Yeah, Bill you said that the Kohoutek was
a very attractive comet at the least and were you ever able
to see it with the naked eye?
SNODDY Me, personally? I've stood next to guys
here in Houston who said they saw it but I'm nearsighted and
I have trouble seeing a lot of stars actually even but -
QUERY Did you see it through binoculars or anything
else?
SNODDY Oh yes, a number of time. When I was in
Huntsville once for about January the 10th or so, I took my
wife out and it was just very easy to observe. She found it
with no difficulty, once I told here where to look, you know,
she could tell it had a tail and which way it was pointing
and that sort of thing. But yon had to kind of know what
yon were looking for. It was a fuzzy kind of thing. And if
you look for something like you saw that picture then that's
not what you would see, you know, with the naked eye. And there
were quite a few of people who did see it with the naked eye.
In fact some guy claimed he saw it with his naked eye just
a few days ago, still. And apparently this fellow -
PAO (Garble)
SNODDY Beg your pardon. And this is relayed to
me Smithsonian when I was talking with him. They said that
this guy has a record of being able to see tremendously
well. But - and - But there were quite a few people who did
see with a naked eye, especially some of the guys here who
the astronauts and so on that flew up. Karl Henize saw it
a number of times when we went above the clouds in his plane
jet and made seketches of it and things of this sort.
PA0 Howard, and then Bill.
QUERY Dr. Eddy said the picture is near perihelium
should be spectacular, what are we likely to see in those
pictures?
SNODDY You'll see - you should - I would expect
you'd see something like that series that I had in the sketches

°iii
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there where it would start out probably with the tall pretty
much behind it and then as it got near the Sun. The tall
would move it around to the other side as the Sun begins
to effect it. You might see the interaction between the tall
and the corona. That's one reason the solar people are so
interested in the comets. Because they are good probes of
the Sun's environments. And we may see turbulances take place
in the tail. And these maybe relatable to coronal events of
various types. It you may See this spike develop. I don't
remember the range over which they had the data but
I think they yeah they had data out to that point. You
should see the tall move around and this spike actually develop.
I would think you should. Any other points that I have missed
there particularly.
QUERY Not really.
SNODDY Okay.
QUERY Bill, is there anythin_ as yet that you can
say new about the structure and composition of the comets?
SNODDY I guess the - from the not from Skylab
results yet because we don't have that much yet to see but
from the radio observations, it's now confirmed, I guess
that the comets are made up of more exotic materials than
had originally been thought by a lot of people. This implies
they are indeed probaly formed way out in the extreme region of
our solar system if not captured by the solar system even.
And/are very likely examples of the primordial material that
the solar system was originally made of because of this having
been formed that far out. And therefore, that kind of gives
weight to the idea that they formed that far out and they
are out there and this comet may have been formed at the
time the solar system was and this is the first time this
orbit has been perturbed such that it came in near the Sun.
That may be one of the reasons to that it didn't brighten up
as much as we thought. We thought that that must surely
have something to do with the fact that it seems to be such
a new comet in the sense of it first approaching the Sun.
Perhaps there is a frozen layer of' hydrogen gas on these
new comets that contain dust for example. And an older comet
llke Haley's comet wouldn't have this frozen layer of hydrogen
gas; it would have already been evaporated away. But in a
new comet perhaps there is as it comes in and starts to
evaporate away at great distances llke out near Jupiter
where this one was discovered. You then have the dust
associated with this left as a kind of a halo around the
comet. There's not much solar pressure to blow this halo away
at that distance so it just sort of han_s around and accummulates
SL-IV PCI31R/4
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and so when the Sun hits it, it reflects off of this dust
and makes it appear a lot larger than you normally expect
the comet to appear at that _reat distance. This is the kind
of various people have talked about this sort of mechanism
perhaps explaining it. There was also a recent study that was
done I understand, I don't believe it's been published yet,
but there seems to be a relationship about how active the
Sun is and how bright a comet becomes as it comes in
toward the Sun. And the Sun was very quiet so perhaps we
had a very new comet approach and a relatively quiet Sun and
that sort of thing has been talked about.
PAO Abby.
QUERY What new information or understanding
do you have of comets from the sketches of the way it
behaved right around perihelium?
SNODDY Well, I think - there's always been theories
about the way these tails should behave depending on the size
of the particle and things of this sort. And there have bottles
made up of - if the material that's coming off has such a range of
partical sizes then you would get a tail of this -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI31S/I
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SNODDY - about the way these tails should behave

depending on the size of the particles and things of this
sort, and there have been bottles made up of if the - if the
material that coming off has such a range of particle sizes
then you'd get a tail of this behavior and it would interact
with the Sun in such a fashion, and as long as comets are
way away from the Sun, then all material tends to behave sort
of the same way. It's only when you're really near that you
begin to get this differentiation in particle sizes and things
of that sort. And so I think the crew's observations will
really allow the theoreticians to refine their models in terms
of this tail behavior - development and behavior in terms of the
particle sizes and in terms of the rate at which these particles
are produced. This - the same kind of information that SO52 is
expected to give us also. And so I think this confirms well, I
think it's it's that in that it allows us the first time that
observations have been made this near the Sun, where it's
really easy to begin to sort out these different kinds of
of thinking about the size particles and the distributions of
them and the way they would behave.
QUERY What is the model then of the way they
behave?
SNODDY Well. it's it - it depends on the rate
at which they're produced and the size of them_ for example.
Even here, there was some feeling that the spike was caused
by very small particles that were - if you imagine the tail
dragging behind the comet and then being reformed and making
a great big - as you come around the Sun, the tail - the new
part of the tail the part that's Just coming off of the
nucleus begins to be pushed ahead and you kind of get a U-shaped
tail. First it's straight, then it develops a kind of a kink
in it, then gradually this kink pulls the whole tail around.
And at first, we thought there was some speculation that the
spike was made up of the materials at the end of this tail, the
very fine material that had not been pulled around yet to the
other side of the comet. The old tail, so to speak as opposed to
being something else other than that. And so, I think we now
with this information about this dynamics and the angles and
so forth, we're able to say no, the spike in the infrared
observations, the spike is definitely made up of heavier mat-
erial that is in close to the comet, a material greater than
i0 microns in size with - and perhaps it's this kind of material
then this kind of material does in - may be proof that this
sort of material does come off of comets, and this may explain
the development of meteroid streams. You know, there are these
streams of meteroid in space and occasionally, the Earth
tray passes through one, and you get a meteroid shower.
SL-IV PC131S/2
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Well.it's been speculated that these streams are the remnants

of comets. And maybe we now have direct evidence that
indeed this does seem to be the case. There does seem to be
these heavier particles that are breaking away from comets as
they come in near the Sun, and are developing these streams. So,
the fact that there are particles this size, I think, is now
being proved, whereas, you might some other theories might
have it that there aren't any particles this size, they're all
very. very small dust things that are - would be blown away
in in the - in the tail and eventually blown out of the solar
system entirely.
OUERY So this is the first direct evidence that
particles of this size exist from - come off of comets?
SHODDY I - so far as I know, it is, yeah, I think
so.
PAO Bill Promey?
QUERY You said that comets - you concluded that
comets are made up of more exotic materials than you expected.
What exotic materials? Does that throw out the dirty snowball
theory?
SHODDY No, that - they are also - it's the frozen
gases and so on, and dust, which is the basis of the dirty snowball_
but it was always thought that the frozen gases or not always
thought, but it was basically thought that they were made up
of primarily water, simple molecules. And now they - the - with
radio techniques, they've discovered the hydrogen cyanide and so
on which is a more complicated molecule. And so - the dirty
snowball is much more complex than some people had thought
that it probably would he, they didn't expect that you would
find these kinds of complex molecules in comets.
PAO Okay. Okay, Bill, thank you very much.
We have next Bob Bond who will discuss the habitability studies
aboard Skylab based on intrepertation of the crew. Ve have
a clarlfaction to make on Jim Maloney's question here. I'll
ask Brian to pass them out to you. Was it (garble) Denis?
Yeah. Before we start, I'd better read this because I'm sure
there's a lot of people on line based on Jim Maloney's question
(garble) here. Images of the Soviet launch site located at
60 degrees 15 minutes East, 46 de_rees North and called the
(Garlbe) have been made usin_ data returned from the Earth
resources technology satellite. Both summer and winter images
have been released by the NASA Public Affairs Office at
Goddard Space Flight Center. One such photo image was reproduced
in a recent issue of Aviation Week and Space Technology. The
image was produced from data acquired on October 5, 1972. ERTS
1 data is automatically acquired over virtually the entire
globe. Only areas near the poles are not viewed by the elec-
tronic sensors on the satellite. All photographs from ERTS

-
SL-IV PC131S/3
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data are made available to the _eneral public through the

EROS, Earth Resources Observation System data center in Siou
Falls, South Dakota. No photography to the best of our
knowledge was taken of the Bachinor site by Skylab equipment
or crews. No such request or program requirement was issued
and no data is expected from either the EREP instruments or
from held - handheld cameras on Skylab. So we'll proceed
with Bob Bond on habitability studies, Bob.
BOND Okay, let me speak to two of the Skylab
experiments today, M487 habitability and crew quarters study
and M516 crew activities malntlnance study. My boss being the
principal investigator for the former and myself for the
later. And rather than harass you with any of the details
of why or how particularly the experiments were _enerated
and the protocols were developed and the data was gathered,
suffice it to say that neither of these two things were
experiments in the classical sense of the term, but they
were rather something more akin to an operational evaluation.
The purpose of which was to gather as much quantitative in-
formation as possible and to reduce as much subjective
opinion into quantitative engineering terms as possible so
that that information could then be used in the design of
future vehicles and programs. Methods that we used were
basically unobtrusive. We listened a lot and we took as
many pictures as we could of the guys doing things in their
general order of business. That is we did not stage demo-
strations Just for the sake of catching the guy doing a
particular thln_. But preferred really to see the crewmen
in there _enera] work day scheduled llvin_ and workin_ inside
the spacecraft feeling that that would _ive us a much better
data point on how a particular item was accomplished. In terms
of data we have available film, television solicited voice
comments, unsolicited voice comments, ad hoc remarks.
Environmental data represents most of the quantitative
numerical data that we have in han@ . There was a small kit
that we have on board with environmental instruments in it
that could he used to - to Bather number type of data. And
then we simply talked to the _uys an awful lot when they get
back. Go over the film and the pictures with them, _o over
the remarks that they made. And help ourselves by getting
the responses from them to assess the adequecy of the design
of the man machine interface on board the spacecraft. And
that particular interface regardlesss of whether it has to
do with the creature comfort and experiment and operational
element on board the spacecraft is the interface that we're
interested in. Now for the convenience of scorekeeplng_ we
had divided the two experiments up into subcategorles or
elements if you will and there are a number of those so why
SL-IV PC131-S/4
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don't I for the sake of convenience here today just march

down through those elements and give you a sentence or two
about what we think the major findings are in each one of
them where we think we have a finding. I'll begin with 487
and I'll yell when I make the transition from 487 to 516.
In 487, the first element we dealt with we call architecture.

END OF TAPE

i i_i_
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BOND One of them where we think we have a

finding. I'ii be_in with 487 and I'ii yell when I make the
transition from 487 to 516. In 487 the first element we
dealt with we called architecture which had to do with the
_eneral layout of the spacecraft, the manner in which it was
put together, the compartmentalizationp dividing the thins
up into various compartment for doing business and the basic
interior design. There were two basically very different
kinds of spacecraft. The workshop was set up in a one _ kind
of orientation with a very definite floor a very definite
ceilin_ a very definite gravity orientation. The multiple
dockins adapter was a cylindrical can without any particular
pravity orientation associated with it with things laid out
around the peripkery of the cylinder of gettin_ as much in
as you could around the periphery and leaving a path through the
middle for the _uyS to traverse. It turned out that maybe it was
just a function of the fact that so much time had been spent
in the one-g trainer learnin_ how to do business. But never
theless, the crewmen tended to orient themselves the same
way in the spacecraft even though they were not gravity
hindered, as they did in the one-g trainer, and they tended to
translate about particularly on the lower deck of the work-
shop where there was a distinct ceilln_ and floor that could
be used for what we call pressure walking where you put your
hands on the ceiling and your feet on the floor and bounce
between the two as you go along. You can use either the top
or the bottom to get your fin_er or toes hooked into to
locomote alon_. And they tended to remain in an erect
posture, even as they went about the spacecraft. Wetd antic-
ipated there would be a _oldfish in a bowl type of loco-
motion where you would no head first from point to point.
That did not turn out bein_ the predominate mode of locomotion.
Nevertheless, on a lot of instances we discovered that it was
not dificult for the crewmen to take advantage of zero g nor
should it be difficult for us in designin_ other vehicles
to take that same advantage of zero g. For instance even
though the table in the wardroom was, oriented in a one-g
kind of a way and you essentially oriented yourself with
respect to the table as you would on the ground, it was
not difficult for a _uy to be at that particular station
eatinp and have some _uy from upstairs, there was a hole in
the floor between the wardroom and the upper deck that was
a hatch way there that was removed and left open, to poke
his head down through essentially upside down and communicate
with th_ fellow downstairs a 180 degrees out from what you
would accustom yourself to doin_ on the ground, and that
seemed to provide no particular difficulty. Because of
numerous instances of that type throughout the missions, it
SL-IVPCI31-T/2
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appears to us that it's perfectly feasible to take advantage

of the zero-g situation in designing things, but there is
no particular reason to try to orient for zero g if one-g
is more convenient. That has a lot of implications for the shuttle
because the thin_ has to be used in a one-g mode as well as
a zero_g mode. It's got to be flown and serviced as an air-
plane on the ground and used as a spacecraft in orbit. We
hope that that will help a lot in designin_ that. Some other
interesting things associated with architecture, it appears
to be no particular problem to hang a guy up against the wall
and have him sleep there. His bed is oriented 90 degrees
differently from what he is accustomed to having it, but
that seems to he no particular problem, The crew slept very
well, the only instance we had of people movinF out of their
bedrooms and going other places in the spacecraft were not
associated with any kind of phycological disorientation
because of sleeping vertically but were associated with the
thermal conditions that occurred in the bedroom as the relationship
of the spacecraft and the Sun chan_ed from time to time and
it got hot in there and they moved out to a cooler place
until it cooled off. The - the one interesting point as a
final point on architecture the place where you seem to have
the most difficulty with running into things and impinging
yourself on the structure of the vehicle upon the structure
of the vehicle is where you make a transition in the path
that youtre traveling, or where you have an openin_ and have
to go from one compartment to another, where you chan_e
directions essentially and have to go around the corner through
an opening or whatever. The body tends to seek a sort of a
neutral position in zero g with the legs bent somewhat and
as you go through hatches you tend a lot of time to dine up
your knees and your toes on the sills. And if there is a place
that we ought to put some padding and protection in future
vehicles, it's any place where you go through a door or change
your direction of travel from one direction to another as
you go across a threshold of some sort. Environment was
another basic topic that we attempted to investigate. The
environment within Skylab turned out to be very pleasant. The
temperature, once the initial difficulties were solved with
respect to _ too much heat inside and the solar shields were
deployed, because very pleasant. It was an odor free enviroment.
It was quite quiet if you will, presented no difficulty in
terms of noise creation keeping the guys awake at night or
anything of that nature. It was relatively dry which created
some small problems on in terms of the same kind of difficulty
you would experience on the ground in a dry climate,
nosebleeds, not violent nosebleeds but a tendency toward
SL-IV PCI31-T/3
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that direction, hangnails developing scaliness of the

skin. A few of those kind of things which you may or may
not hear about from some of the medics. We attempted to do
no evaluation of it. We Just noted it as an artifact and
wetll let them do the evaluating. The illumination on board
as an emviromental factor was some what marginal. Could
have been a good deal brighter places to do business. And there
was no particularly noticeable airflow, even though there was an
airflow, it was not noticable to the crewmen in terms of creatinp a
coolness, if you will, llke standing in a cold breeze. It
was there and it did move things about inside the spacecraft
very nicely, as a matter of fact, I'll mention later what
a nice thing that is and how we hope maybe to take advantage
of it. But is was not a problem for them. The only time
that they really noticed that there was any airflow at all
was when they got themselves wet taking a shower and were not
completely dry when they got back out into the airstream and
then they did notice a bit of coolness. Mobility and restraint
is another major item. We discovered that there was tremendous
mobility. There seemed to be no difficulty in _oing
from anyplace to any other place getting themselves from point
to point or gettinR any other item of equipment from point
to point. In terms of what it takes to restrain a fellow to
have him do business at any particular workstation, there
were numberous items onboard, of restraint, all of which were
given a reasonable fair trial, some of which turned out not
bein_ very useful at all. For instance the chair that we
had at the ATM panel turned out not bein_ a very useful kind
of device because it limited the scope of activitiy of the
crewmen at that panel. It doesn't take much imagination
to, as you sit there, think about how much more mobile you
would be if you were restrained only at your feet, could lean
in any direction you wanted, to rather than beinR restrained
as you sit in the chair and can only cover whatever you can
reach from that sitting position. Let me show you the major
item of restraint in Skylab. Let's have that first one now.
I_ll show you here the triangle shoe as it interfaces with
the grid. I know you've heard a great deal about this particular
device, you may have never seen one of these animals up
close. The shoe is rather bulky and rather large and rather
heavy in a one-g enviorment. None of those items particularly
5other you in zerorg. It goes through the grid and if you rotate
it slightly, it will lock as it is shown on the screen here
in t_e locked position. That gives you all the restraint that
you need to do business at a particular worksite it mounts
you very rigidly so that you can exert forces in any direction.
SL-IV PCI31T/4
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It holds you there vary nicely, t_e only problem we discovered

with it was that it took awhile to accustom yourself to exactly
how you make the interface between the shoe and the grid.
You'll notice that the triangle on the shoe is almost as
big as the hole that you have to stuff it into. And you have
to look in order to see where you are. It was not a thing
that could be very easily engaged without looking at what
_ou were doing_ On the other handj once there, you were
retained very nicely, you did not have to twist your foot
and lock it in place, once you put it therep you could leave
it ratEer loosely attached and extract it very easily and
very readily. There were other devices onboard that we
did try towards the end of the last mission and toward the
beginning of the first mission that replaced the triangle
on the bottom of the shoe, little things that looked some
llke an inverted ice-cream cone - mushroom type jobs
that is probably a better description, an upside-down mushroom,
that would hook underneath the grid was much smaller and
would go through the triangle in the grid more readily but
would also disengage more readily. Those were not found
to be nearly so desirable by the crewmen as the triangle was
because the triangle, after a time you got accustomed to it,
you were much more readily able to engage it and it gave you
the kind of -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI31U/I
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BOND - - also disengage more readily. Those

were not found to be nearly so desirable by the crewman as
the triangle was because the triangle - after a time you _ot
accustomed to it you were much more readily able to en_age
it and it _ave yon the kind of restraint you would llke to
have, the kind that you can engage and not have to think about.
You don't have to exert any additional forces to stay there
and you can forget all about it and go about your business.
Let me show you that device in work, if we can see that second
slide now. This is an infllght photograph, it shows A1 Bean
at the ATM panel during his mission. You'll notice that he
is restrained only at the feet, he is not using the chair. He
has tremendous mobility and tremendous scope, he can reach
any point on that ATM panel. He can reach to the left of
it, he can reach to the right of it. There was nothing that
he needed to do business at that panel or in that immediate
area that he could not get to with simply the foot restraint
engaged and he could engage both feet or one foot as he
desired and had tremendous scope and mobility by doing that
much more so than the limited trainer allowed the crewmen to
have on the ground_ which was what they had become accustomed
to it, the one g situation which is sitting in a chair and
front of this same panel. Once in orbit, they found that
they could get at things quite easily, that they could not
on the ground and it was a plesant surprise to them. It
also begins to change our thoughts and ideas about where
the design eyepoints should be for designing panels in
work stations. We can take advantage of this particular thing
to essentially spread out the crewmen's range of mobility and
range of cooperation. And we'll have to ogitate awhile on
what that might mean to us in terms of how to design the
next item, but it increases our scope and our capability quite
a bit. Another point that can he made by looking at this
particular picture is in terms of mobility and restraint.
Anything on board the spacecraft is vulnerable and eligible
to be used as a restraint device, even though it may not
have been so designed or intended for that particular kind
of use, and the point that we will have to make very strongly
with designers of hardware with future spacecraft particularly
designers of experiments is that whatever their device is it
may be used in ways that they had not intended for it to be
used. You'll notice here that A1 is holding himself in
the position that he has chosen there not only by being
restrained by his feet, but he's chosen to pull his body
back to a particular posture by pulling up on the tray there
that is designed to hold down all the paper work that tells
him what to do at that panel. There are numberous instances

s
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in looking at the film and the TV of the guys operating on board

Skylab that show them using whatever happens to be available
in their path to push off of, initiate motion, stop motion,
restrain themselves temporarily, or whatever. And that's a point
that must be made very stongly in future designs. This is
the first time we had a vehicle large enough for the fellows
to move around in and really display this kind of capability.
Another major point, moving into maybe the creature comfort
area had to do with food and water. For the first time here,
we have an open food tray, very similiar to what you might
pick up in a cafeteria. And dispersed around the tray is
the old system the Apollo system where you have to stick the
water gun in, squirt the water in, reconstitute t_e food
and eat it with your fingers, _et it all mixed up together
and then suck it out through the hole. Therels no question
about the fact that that is a far less desirable kind of a
system and to simply take the open tray with the utensils
and eat it. And the food adhered very nicely to the utensils
and there was not much spattering, if you will, about leaving it
off the utensils. The major spattering had to do with opening
the cans and of any of you have opened these pop top cans
know that that "last millimeter or two is the one that gets
you. I'm not sure that there is anythin_ we can do about
that except catch the drop as it goes by. But that turned
out not being a significant problem. It was not difficult to
clean up whatever drops or spatters of food were bantered about
by doing that. And the system itself turned out being quite
nice, quite easy to use. And if we can see the next one now. We
see here the first crew, picture taken in the trainer not in
flight but the inflight pictures do not look significantly
different from this one. If I hadn't told you you probably
wouldn't have known the difference. And it presented a very
nice kind of a way to do business, the trays had timing devices
on them, so that you set up your meal. It's kind of like putting
the roaster in the oven and going to do something and when you
come back afterwhile, it's all done. You set up the cans in
the tray for the next meal, turned on the timer) went away and
did your thing and then when you came back and it was time to
eat next time and your food was all warm and all you had to do
was take the lid off and eat. An_ it presented a nice social
situation for everybody to gather around the table to eat and
talk about what had happened since the last time. In the world
of hygiene, great improvements made here also, if we could see
the next one please. There we see once again in the trainer,
Paul Weitz is standing in the waste management compartment.
By his left hand is the fecal/urine collector system. Down by
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his left knee are the three drawers that were the urine
collection drawers. A little closer back to me is the hand
washer system. All of these things worked very nicely, were a
vast improvement over wet and dry wipe kinds of things to do
business. The fecal collector was a tremendous improvement over
defecatin K in a glove. The guys had no problem whatsoever
in using this system. It functioned very nicely for them.
It's a great improvement and it ought to be accepted as the base-
line way of doing business from now on with whatever improvements
we can crank into that system. When, lefts see, yeah when
A1 Bean's crew left the spacecraft, they left a calling card
for the next crew that was coming up and as you see Paul standing
here_ you can't really appreciate the manner in which you
would have to use this system until you can see somebody
using it, so if we can see the next one, we'll find a way
that Jerry Cart's crew found the head as they arrived. The
previous guys had stuffed a set of clothes with used up linen
and things and mounted the guide in the use position as you
can see him here. That's a little bit different than we're
accustomed to seeing people. 90 degrees different at least.
But that presented no particular problem. Geometrically at
least, the one thing that was complained about most was the
fact that we failed to realize that maybe folks woul d like
to _o there and read the newspaper llke they do on the ground
and the light was overhead. When you get into that position
you can't see, you'll block the light out. Okay, we can pull
that one down now. And bring the lights back if you want to.
Let's hold that last one for a while. Another major area of
investigation had to do with housekeeping and we define
housekeeping as all of those things you needed to do to keep
your ship liveable. The one thing that we discovered is that
you must allow time in the time line to do all of those
things that are a number of chores that must be accomplished
on a daily basis, there are other things that are associated
with changing filters and cleaningscreens and doing Just general
housework that can be done periodically but it does impinge
upon the time line. The time must be allowed on the daily
basis to get these chores accomplished. One of the very nice
things that happened was for the first time we had a nice
forced air system that had fans in the loop that moved things
around and kept the air circulating and flowing about inside
the spacecraft and there were return vents there Just llke you
have in the air conditioning and heating system in your own home.
There were filter there that had to be changed or cleaned
periodically. The point at which the air was sucked up out
of the cabin and transferred back into the system for recycling
and redistribution became a collection point for e_erythlng
SL-IV PCI31U/4
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that got loose in the spacecraft. We would - that was a

very nice kind of a thing because you didn't have to
particularly worry about anything that you lost control of.
If it was some small sort of a thing and you were concerned
with about the fact that it might get into your eye or your
ear or up your nose as you slept in the evening, it didn't.
There was not a reported case in all of the manned hours
of Skylab of any of that kind of thing happening. Nothing
ever floated into a human orifice inadvertently. These thin_s
all migrated to the screens. It was nice to know that because
if you lost control of something and you wanted it back, you
could go to that screen in a day or so and it would be there.
We would like to take advanage of that in future designs by
knowing that that happens and knowing that we can go there
designing maybe a more easily cleaned system and maybe taking
either further advantage of it by - there is enough retention
force on those screens and we did do a little bit of
experimenting in the last mission by havin_ the guys go to
the screen and use it as a place to do business. When you
have a great deal of loose paper and you want to update your
checklist and write on it and pasting your pages and it
would do things like that. When you turn all of those loose
things loose zero g they're going to go somewhere, particularly
if there's an airflow system that -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI31V/I
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BOND _ - to do business when you have loose

paper and you want to update your c_u_cklist and write on it
and past new pages in it and do things like that, When you
turn all of those loose thin_s loose in zero-E, they're going
to go somewhere, particularly if there is an airflow system that
moves them around. If you can go to a place llke this and not
have to stick them down with tape or stick them under sprln_s
or bunse_s_ we can lay them out on a flat surface, it makes
it a nice place to do business_ And it retains it. There's
enough inward, ne_atlve pressure there if you will to retain
them. They tood advantage of tkls and we maybe would llke to
try to take advantage of that by concurrently deslgnin_ into
the system a worksatlon alon_ with these return air screen so
that you can go there and do work, If we can see that last one
now. This is sort of a representlve collection of debris.
Once agaln_ an inflight picture made on Conrad's flight on
the first mission showin_ some of the thin_s that collected
on the screen at the top of the dome, And you can see a
representive group of items, a bolt and nut, a syrln_e,
various bits and pieces of paper and debris and dust, a ba_
that was opened. Everythin_ went there from the very smallest
to the very largest. Jack Lousma said he discovered one
night in his sleep he kicked loose his Jacket that he wore
around all the time from the place he had it hun_ up in his
bedroom and he knew exactly where to go. He hustled up to the
screen and there it was. So from the largest to thesmallest
item collected on the screen and this photograph bares evidence
to the fact that yeah, there is the stuff and it did go there.
You can take that one down now_ And thatts the last picture
I have to show you. The final two or three items associated
with M487 were in some ways minor, but nevertheless Interestln_
and will have application down stream. For instance, garments
is another major item. We discovered in the world of garments
that two piece garment is indeed a very good kind of a garment
to use and to have on board. It gives you various options of
what kind of clothing you will wear. It allows you to adjust to
thermal conditions by putting on or takin E off pieces of
clothing. The nicest thin E it does,as opposed to the one piece
flight coverall is that it allows you to very easy access for
personal hyglene chores. You don't have to undress completely
in order to Eo to the John. Pockets become much more useful
in zero g than they are on the Eround. We lay things
on desk_ we put thinss on table, we put them everywhere on
the ground and they stay there, You cantt do that in a
zero g envlorment and the pocket becomes one of the most
utile tools available to you. A good deal of thought will
probably be put into the deslgn of the Earment system for future
SL-IV PCI31V/2
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progarams in order to take full advantage of this and to be

sure that all the right kinds of pockets, restraints, et cetera
are there to hold the right things and retain them in the
right kind of way, allow access without emptying the whole
thing. That's another problem, the jack-in-the-box effect
in zero g. If you have a large container and you have a single
orifice through which you insert and extract items once
you open them up and get a hand in there and stir them up
and try to extract one without getting the rest of them out
you ordinarily discover that you have removed more than you
intended to inadvertently, a lot of times, That must be
thought about seriously. The garments tended to stay very
clean, They got dirty from the inside out, rather than from
the outside in, no perspiration predominantly being the thing
that soiled the clothing, the undergarments and socks mainly.
There was nothing on board to soil from the outside in. The
spacecraft had been put into orbit in a clean room kind of
a configuration and it pretty much stayed that way. The
one thing that the first crew complained most about was the
fact that they would have like to have had more underwear
and socks so that they could have chan_ed those on a
more frequent kind of basis than they did. That was accomodated
in the later missions by launching more in the command modules.
Communications, IVA communications, person to person inside
the spacecraft was another major item. And there was only
one thin_ to say about that, it was rather difficult in the
low pressure enviornment_ sound did not propogate well, particular
sound of voice. And beyond i0 to 15 feet, it was difficult
to communicate by a voice without using the intercomm system
on board. That problem will probably go away in the shuttle
Because it will be a 15 pound cabin and we'll talk just like
you and I are talkin_ now. Off duty activity equipment was
the final major item investiKated by 487 and of all of the
items that were available in the kit on board the one thing
that seemed to be used predominantly was the tape recorder
for the playing of the cassette music. The other major-off-
duty item was the window out of which the crews enjoyed
immensely looking at the ground. And we have concluded that there
ought to be plenty of those availabe for use in future vehicles.
In 516, a lot of the areas overlapped with the 487 thin_, there
were a few unique items associated with that. Manual dexterity
was one of the areas of investigation. What we have concluded
is that at least for 85 days, the crewmen dexterity did not
de_rade at all. Their ability to manual manipulative chores
seemed to be just as keen and sharp at the end of the mission
as it was at the beginning of the mission. And the only thin_
that is a problem in that area is when you have a multiple number

_I i_.__
 SL-IV PCI31V/3
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of small items to manage. It gives you much more of a problem

than trying to manage a single large item. That gets us into
the next item, which was mass handling and transfer or
cargo moving from place to place. We had anticipated that
there might be some difflculty in moving some of the large
packases about• It turned out there was no difficulty at
all. The crewmen moved all of the large items on board very
readily from place to place. What did give them trouble was
trying to control or logistically manage multiple small items.
They get away from you very easily_ They are hard to corral
and get all into one place and when you open whatever the
lld is they tend to get out of there. Wlth very very small
forces imparted to them, they_ll go somewhere. That's
a problem that we must work on quite a bit, Another major
area, in 516 was locomotion which is the same as mass handling
and transfer without the mass. It's you going somewhere
without taking something with you, somewhat analegous to
the mobility and restraint in 487. And once again the major
finding there is that locomotion is very easily and readily
done presents no problem whatsoever. You can go forwards
backward, upside down, turn flips enroute (garble) Pete did in
most of his trips from point to point. There seemed to be
no difficulty at all in locomotlng from place to place within
the spacecraft, Very small forces were needed to initiate
locomotion_ and very small forces to stop it at the other end.
The final item is maintenance, maintainability. And the major
finding here I think is that man is capable of maintaining his
spacecraft and all of the hardware in it if glve the proper
tools to do business with and given the proper access to
whatever it is that has gone wrong. The vehicle itself was
maintained in an outstanding manner. As a matter of fact,
the program was salvaged through maintenance during the first
mission, unscheduled unplanned maintenence as it was. But,
nevertheless, the entire program was salavaged by that.
A number of the experiments were salvaged onboard by being
able to get inside of them, detect what the bug was, and cure
the problem. And what we would recommend to management regarding
the shuttle program is we take advantage of this capability
that we put the tools on board, that we provide the access
that we provide a workslte. A work station where the chores
can 5e done. And take advantage of the guy's capability for
doing these things. And I think that probably covers, Bob,
the major points of the two experiments,

PAO Okay, any questions, Bill.

 t

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QUERY Yeah, on the rec there they included a

lot of balls of different sizes and consistency and at least
the first crew used them, did the crew take any advantage
of those, did they use them at all?
BOND Very little, it was a sort of a gee whiz
item to pull out and play with, a little bit. We do have some
film of the first crew using them. We have no reports of
anybody else using them for anything.
P 0 ake Carolyn here.
QUERY How about the playlnK cards?
BOND Playing cards were never used. As it
turned out there were restraints on board that were provided
for the playing cards which would hold a sinKle hand, a deck
diffent kinds of hands for different kinds of games and one
use that we found for that was in holding down the checklist
for the updates.
QUERY In view of what you found out about maintenance
and are you going to recommend on that shuttle that there be
ways of going EVA in order to make repairs and doinK main-
tenance?
BOND We certainly will.
PAO Howard.
QUERY On this last fllght_ Bill Pogue did a lot
of complaining about the waste management system, about food,
about a lot of things that nobody else seemed to complain
about throughout the mission. Is that just his individual
taste or desires or what, do you have any explanation for
that?
BOND Well, we approached the think I guess by
saying that we had nine crewmen and in order to get the consensus
we tried to add up all the comments and divide by 9, if we
end up with 3 siKma data point we may treat it that way. There
was an awful lot subjective individual opinion associated with
the manner in which we were forced to do business. Most of
our data came back bein_ suggestive and the difficulty we're
having now is convertinK the subjective data into objective
data. A lot of what we did was to ask questions and ask for
evaluations onboard given an opportunity to express an opinion
about how it could have been done better or what was wrong
with it. Most of the guys took advantage of the opportunity.
PAO Abby.
QUERY There was some talk that the sleeping
arranKement, they were too close to each other, so when any-
body turned over_ the other person heard them and the same
with the voice management system, just for the noise, are you
planninK to do anything about that?
SL-IV PCI31V/5
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BOND We wish we could. As the shuttle is

conceived today, there is no place in that vehicle to go to
get away from other people so we will probably attempt to
lightproof and soundproof the sleeping arrangements as much
as possible with privacy curtains or some sort of sound and
light buffer between people. We strongly recommend it by all
Skylab crewmen that that be done.
PAO Art.
QUERY Another thing that Bill recommended was
that in the waste management that somehow you separate the hand
washln_ and face washing facilities from your hygiene
facilities. Is this goln_ to be done on the next shuttle or are
you still goin_ to have this crowded bathroom situation on
the shuttle?
BOND The shuttle, Just because of it's size
will probably be more crowded than Skylab was. The constraints
will probably be more severe in terms of volume available to
do business. We'll be reduced to something like a waste
management compartment the size of a commercial airliner. As
opposed to the one in Skylab which may be three four times that
size.
PAO Abby.
QUERY How, in the architecture in, say, planning
a future space station, would you separate the sleepln_ com-
partment much more from the bathroom Just from this noise point
of view, would you separate, have individual sleeping com-
partments? Is the noise that bad?
BOND Given enough room to do that kind of
business, yes, I think we would try to get those kinds of
thln_s as far apart as possible. The problem with Skylab was
it was a common wall between the bedroom and the bathroom and
the equipment made noise when it was operated. There may be
ways of reducln K the noise in the equipment, however you may
be able to separate physical the two facilities from each
other.
PAO Abby.
BOND Did they play darts? The last two crews?
BOND I thought you'd never ask. They played
with the darts. Just out of sheer curiosity the aerodynamlclsts
amon_ them were intrigued by why did the darts tumble and not
go right. They made larger fins and taped them on, cut the fins
out of the carboard on the checklist and attached them to the
darts and sure enough when you got enouzh surface to control
the vehicle that you are flying it flew pretty well.
QUERY Who did that SL-IV?
BOND Three_
QUERY Three.
BOND Yeah.
SL-IV PCI31V/6
TIME: 13:03 CDT
2/21/74

PAO For those of you who have traveled

70 million miles with Skylab and the rest of us, we thank
you. Tomorrow is the crew conference at 9 a.m. in the morning
in the large auditorium. The next premission briefing will
be ASTP next spring, thank you very much.

END OF TAPE

_, LI.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE: 1974--778-214/22 80

 SKYLAB NEWS CENTER
_-_ Houston,Texas

SL IV - Postfli_ht Crew Press Conference

Johnson Space Center
February 22, 1974
9:15 CDT

Participants:

Lieutenant Colonel Jerry Carr, Commander

Dr. Ed Gibson, Science Pilot
Colonel Bill Pogue, Pilot
Jack Riley, PAO

PC-132
SL-IV PCI32-A/I
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

PAO Good morning. The Skylab IV crew is here

today to tell you something about their mission, show you some
pictures. I think most of you know these _entlemen but for
the record, we'll reintroduce them. At least two of them
look a little bit differently than they did when they returned
to Earth. From your left, the mission Commander, Lieutenant
Colonel Jerry Carr; next to him, Science Pilot, Dr. Ed Gibson:
and on the end, the Pilot, Colonel Bill Pogue. Colonel Carr.
CARR Thank you. I think first off, I'll just
bring up the _reat reentry crisis. As you all know, we had a
ring problem with propellants and the helium _ases that pres-
surize the tank and heaped on top of that, we ended up with a
configuration problem. Essentially what happened is, we - we
pulled four circuit breakers just prior to separation and just
after we had tested out all of our engines. And the four
breakers we pulled were near the right four breakers we should've
pulled and in the fury of getting all our marbles gathered up
and everything straight for the loss of the secondary ring,
the plumbing - redudant plumbing system that had failed, in
our haste in preparing for that, we essentially just pulled
the wron_ four breakers. And so when we separated, we had
that long moment of silence as I twittled the hand controller
and nothin_ happened. And our hearts fell and our eyeballs
popped, but we immediately moved to our next line of defense,
you might say, which was in accordance with the training that
we've gotten and we moved on to our direct system which is
essentially a second set of wirin_ that _oes to the - to the
engines and used those and from then, all from then on, all
worry was _one. It was just more of puzzlement as to how in
the world that had happened because we had just got finished
testing those engines out. And I had a very stron_ hunch at
the time that it was a procedural problem and we couldn't find
it. And so rather than make any big thin_ of it on the _round,
I wanted to find out the facts first. I asked the fellows here
at JSC to try to see if they could ferret out the reason why we
had the problem. And sure enough as I had suspected, it was
a procedural problem and but at no time did we feel that we
were in any great sweat. I will admit there was an instant of
stark realization that we were - something was amiss. But
thanks to good reliability design, we had plenty of redundancy
and we had new trenches to fall back to and it was just no
problem at all. When we got to the actual reentry attitude,
I was able to give it back to the computer and it did a magni-
ficent job of flying us right to the target point. So, so
much for the reentry. I'll be glad to field any questions later
on on this thing that you might want to ask. But I think that
pretty well covers it. Bill, why don't you give them a little
overview on the medical situation.
SL-IV PCI32-A/2
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

POGUE Of course, we worked pretty hard during

the flight to maintain physical condition. We thought at
the time during the flight that we were in good physical
condition. However, there is always a doubt. On the ship
we - when they started the tests, things started looking very
optimistic and they have continued to look optimistic. We
just completed another long medical protocol this morning
at least as far as that blood test is concerned. And although
our the hemoglobin level is down in all three of us, it's
still above what could be the normal average range in - in
individuals. We feel well. We're running again and aside
from very, very minor things which we've very dutifully reported,
just maybe a sore calf here, and maybe knee joints a little
bit sensitive there, a little bit of lower back sensitivity,
we're in _reat shape and it - mainly, itls just a manner of
having this sort of consciously make yourself aware of any-
thing in order to be able to report anything to the medics,
which is of course, the desirable position to be in. We
feel great and I don't know how we look. Anyway, we're de-
lighted with the way the medical test results have come out.
CARR Ed, why don't you fill them in a little
bit on the ATM.
GIBSON Okay. The mission itself in terms of ATM
went fairly nominal except for two events which we were very
pleased with. First, was a very

END OF TAPE
"" -
__L-IVPCI32_B./i
- - ' . .
TIME: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

CARR - - fill them in a little bit on the ATM.

GIBSON Okay, the mission itself in terms of
ATM went fairly nominal except for two events which we were
very pleased with. First was a very bright coronal transient.
I was satisfied with this for two reasons; first is it exemplified
the type of coordination which we've developed between the
ground team and the people in flight. One of the observatories
on board - one of the observatories on the ground picked up
a prominence which was lifting off the limb. That's a fairly
high-density material right above the limb of the Sun, and
reported it in to the people here at Mission Control which
sent it up to us, and with in a matter of minutes then we were
able to get the ATM instruments on it. It showed up on board,
looking at the corona of the Sun which is the region right
around the Sun, the atmosphere of the Sun, showed up as a
very bright spearhead of material moving away from the Sun
out - I wouldn't say it was heading directly toward the region
of the Earth, but it could in some instances. What I'm trying
to imply is that there was an awful lot of material thrown
off the Sun in one instance which all went into the solar
wind which eventually arrives here at Earth. So, from that
standpoint the scientific interest plus the coordination
that was - really worked well. I was very happy with that
event. Second one is the flare which we did get. We did
get a couple of flares, and so did other missions, but I think
from the previous missions we were able to determine what
is the optimum way to use the instruments which we had
on board in order to get the rise of a flare. The reason
we're after that, of course, is that all the action takes
place in the early minute or two of a flare and then from
there on it's just a decay of what's taken place. It's
essentially an explosion, if you will, on the Sun. A lot
of energy is released, and the whole aim here is to determine
what happens in those initial few minutes so you can under-
stand how the explosion takes place and be able to better
predict it and maybe even, to some degree, use that same
technique in applications down here. We were able to look
an active region which we could tell by its pulse rate; its
pulse rate was up, if you will, the energy which was being
emitted from it was coming out very sporadically in rather
large quantities, that it was about to flare. And we just
stood on it and waited until we had an indication on one of
our displays that it was just at the very early stages of going
off and luckily we were on the right spot at the right time
and got everything going. So, I think we probably got the
early rise of a flare and that we were very interested in
SL-IV PCI32B/2
TIME: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

seeing how the results came ou't. The third aspect of the mission
is which we continued on was the nominal operations of
the ATM using a lot of onboard judgment which has been
developed in the previous two missions and which we hope
we were able to advance a little bit. There's a lot of
interesting data which when all put together, I think, is
going to tell us a lot about our own energy source.
CARR Okay, and now it's show-and-tell time.
We would like to show you some of our home movies; some of
our pictures that we took. We're going to start off with
some - I believe some Kohoutek work and then an ATM pizture.
And then, not because it's of any greater importance than the
others, but it's pictures we got back first, and that's a
lot of the visual observations and Earth resources photography
that we took. We - we've picked some pretty good examples here,
we believe, of the various areas in which we were interested.
And we'll try to give you a little bit of a blurb along with
each one of them. So if we can go ahead and dim the lights
and get started.
CARR These pictures up here are really sketches,
and these are essentially renditions done on the ground based
on the television pictures they took of the sketches that -
that Ed made with Bill and I leaning over his shoulder
nagging at him when we thought he'd put the wrong colo_ in
or the wrong line, so Ed, why don't you talk a little bit
about that?
GIBSON Okay, the first one on the left just shows
the comet as we saw it before it got to perihelion. There
was not really too much in the way of a dynamic phase to it
then. We saw just the coma, the bright region around the
nucleus and the tail leading off. We had to use binocalars
in order to see any detail at all. We like everybody - -

END OF TAPE
 SL-IV PC-132C/I
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

GIBSON - - nucleus and the tail leading off.

We had to use binoculars in order to see any detail at all.
We, like everybody else, were a little disappointed in the
brightness of the comet, but once it got down to perihelion
and we were able to see it, which is the second frame there,
the center frame at the top,then it became very interesting
to us_ And the time we first saw this was out EVA. It was
rather bright. I know you folks down here didn't get a good
chance to view it that way_ but we were out EVA and I had
a visor down and looked up at sunset and there it was. And
what was so remarkable about it was the spike which came out
from the front of it. There are several explanations of this
spike, one perhaps which is the best is the dust which had
not moved around behind the comet as it swung around the Sun,
and it's in the plane of the orbital motion of the comet, so
it all appears really like a spike whereas if you were looking
at the top it would look more like a fan. But it was very
bright to us, it was yellow in appearance, which is not shown
there.
CARR Yeah, we felt that there was a whole lot
more orange in that than what you see in these pictures, in
particular those close to perihelion, considerably more orange.
GIBSON And it appeared relatively more bright
to us for about 2 to 3 days after perihelion. Then as
the tail swun_ around so that we were lookin_ more perpendicular
to the axis of the tail, essentially its lon_ length became
exposed to us, the tail tended to lengthen out and we saw
it out to around 7 or 8 de_rees or so at one time. And the
spike out in front tended to diminish in intensity and finally
disappear as far as what we could see of it. As we went on
there we were able to view it quite well up to about a week,
week and a half. I think the last sketch I made was up around
9 days after, that's not included here. And we saw the tail
become more bluish in appearance, which is characteristic
of a gas tail rather than a dust tail. When you look at photo-
graphs which were taken with long time exposures, they show
both tails existin_ and starting to separate a little bit
as you got out maybe 5, 6, to 7 degrees or so away from the
nucleus. We never saw that separation. It became very faint
as we got out that far, but we were able to distinguish the
gas tail itself and its bluish appearance, It all happened
ralatively quick, that is in a period of a week or so, and
to us it was very beautiful and very dynamic. And I'm sorry
that the people down here did not get the same view.
CARR I must say that I think the most thrilling
think was the day you and I were out EVA, Ed, and you said,
"Man, look at that, there it is." And that comet was just
SL-IV PC-132C/2
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

_orgeous up there in the sky right near the Sun. And the sk¥
was so black and the comet was so brilliant, and it was just
really a gorgeous sight. It's one of the sights that from that
mission that I think I_ii never forget.
GIBSON You know, in order to really view it well,
we had to get dark adapted, that is to close our eyes or in
some way keep the light out for 4 or 5 minutes before you looked
at it right after sunset. So the next time around Jerry was
wondering where I was and he found me huddled over in the
workstation right behind the airlock shroud rolled up in
little ball tryinE to keep my eyes away from the light.
CARR Yes. You begin to have worries and doubts about
your crew, you know, when you find them huddled up in the corner with
their eyes closed. (Laughter)
PAO I think we had better keeping on moving here.
GIBSON Okay, let's go ahead.
CARR Okay, this view here just essentially
_ives you a good look at the other aspects, the other ways to look
at it. I don't think we should spend any time on this. In
fact, I believe this was presented yesterday, wasn't it, in the
science conference?
GIBSON Yes, that bottom one will explain the
spike out front if you'd like to go into those details some
time.
CARR Okay, next: slide. This slide is a very
early, early picture we took with the handheld camera. This
was the experiment $233, which was the Nikon camera with very
sensitive film. And this is Kohoutek in late November when
the only way we could even see it was with binoculars. And
we had to make use of essentially our knowle_e of the star
fields in order to get even pointed in the right direction.
But there, you can see, is Kohoutek with just a little bit of a
tail beginning to form. Next slide.
GIBSON We do not have any of the photographic
data which was brought back from ATM available to us yet.
The only data we have is the type of data which you see here
which is from the Harvard experiment, S055.

END OF TAPE
SL IV PC-132D/I
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

GIBSON We do not have any of the photographic

data, whlch was brought back from the ATM available to us
yet. The only data we have is the type of data which you
see here, which is from the Harvard experiment, SO55. It
was all sent down on telemetry, and therefore it has been
able to be processed and put out. What this illustrates is
typical of some of the things which we saw on the very limb
of the Sun. Right here, we're looking at a line of neon VII
in the red - which is shown red here, and this is a loop
right above the limb. We've got a mechanical failure here.
Let's push the button. Here we go. This and - let's go on
to the next slide, I think it will show it better. This shows
the higher temperature regions. This is from silicon XII.
which is a line - essentially what it means is a silicon
atom which has had ii electrons removed, so it is very highly
ionized. And it shows the very hot regions of that same area.
Next slide, please. Now_ we have a composite of the two, which
shows the loop as well as the hot regions - again the red
region are the relatively cool areas, or yellow is exceptionally
bright. What was important about this is not just how it
looks still here, but apparently over a couple of orbits here,
this was able to exchange energy between the surface and the
loop itself. Material was ejected in a flare at the base,
it went up into the loop, came back down along the magnetic
field lines, which everything tends to follow on the Sun, back
into the feet of the loop, right down there at the surface
and caused more flaring, and this energy exchange took place
several times. One thing that we hope to determine from ATM
is quite a bit about the magnetic fields, and how they in
turn put energy into flares very rapidly. This is one thing
we don't understand. It's going to be useful for understanding
the dynamics on the Sun. How to predict flares, and we may
learn a little about energy processes that may be useful to
us down here.
SPEAKER Okay.
CARR Okay. Now this slide shows the Falkland
Current. And some time ago, we got briefings from some of the
people in the area of oceanography, and they were askin_ us
to do what we could to see what could be seen from space, and
what could be determined about ocean currents. And talking
to a few of the fellows who had flown, I had very grave doubts
that we would be able to see much of anything in the way of
ocean currents. However, the Falkland Current is one of the
most spectacular currents in the world, as far as we can see.
The plankton that blooms up, that comes up from the bottom
of the sea is a very brilliant green in the Falkland Current.
It's a very fluorescent-type green. It seems to come from
SL IV PC-132D/2
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

alon_ the westward drift area, which is down just north of

Antarctica_ and it swoops up alon_ the Straights of Magellan
and around the Falkland Islands, and it just runs headlong
into the Brazil Current, which is the South Equatorial Current
coming down from the north along the Argentine,Brazilian
coast, and just off the mouth of the Rio de la Plata
River, these two currents come together, and a magnificent
eddy pattern is set up. And when you've got all the plankton
that you can see here, all the smears you see are real brillian
fluorescent green plankton, and it's carried along in the
current, and it's just like a - as an aviator would see it -
sea marker, dye marker in the sea. And it very, very plainly
showed us the confluence of these two currents, and we could see
exactly how those two currents met, and how they eddied. We
passed over the area so many times we could get a day-to-day
synoptic view of how the current was changing. Now, the value
of this particular picture is is this is one of the times that
we saw what is commonly called the red tide, and that's this
area right in here. And the red tide is made up of a one-cell
organism that is very toxic to shellfish and fish and it's
even believed that some of the airborne vapors that come from
these red tides have affected people on land, when they've
been blown into inhabited areas. The plankton itself, the
nice green plankton you see, is what the fish feed on, so you
can see one of the values of observations from space is that
you can find plankton, and where the plankton is there's got to
be fish, a lot of fish.

END OF TAPE

i iir
SL-IV PCI32-E/I
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

CARR the use of observations from space

is you can you can find plankton and where the plankton is,
there's _ot to be fish, a lot of fish. And the Russians and
the Argentinians have done a _reat deal of fish harvesting
down here in the Falkland Current. One particular point that
this - this picture shows out is the fact that the red tide
is almost completely surrounded by the green, life-giving
plankton bloom. We've got a lot of pictures of this and they're
going to be all released over a period of time. I think that
the - this really thrills the oceanographers and to us, it
was very interesting. Next picture. Now we took this picture
again at - with the purpose of looking at plankton blooms.
You can see that light-colored stain there. That's in the
water. That's not clouds. There's some light stain right up
in here. And we were Just busy giving people all sorts of
synoptic data on the plankton blooms and then people began
to look at these pictures recently and they said, "Hey, look
at this. You've got these cloud streets these little streaks
of clouds all going along here which indicate that the wind
is blowing" - well, there goes the flashlight. The wind is
blowing in this direction. From down here, up into this
direction. But they said all of a sudden, you - you know
you're forming these nice cloud streets over the water and
everything looks good. And then all of a sudden, you get one
of these great big empty cells - empty space here with all
the cumulus built up on the other side of it. And the
oceanographers say, "You know, we think we're Just beginning to
discover that there are some things called 'cold-water eddies'
in the ocean where cold water is rising from below." It's very,
very cold and we think what we've got here is the wind blowing
over the normal temperature of water which is a little bit
warmer than the air. And so your - by convection, you're buildin_
clouds up. But then all of a sudden, that air goes over this
cold eddy right here and nothing happens. You get no clouds,
And then when it gets to the other side of the eddy, it runs
into that, that warm water again and we set up convection and
you build up the big cumulus clouds. So we're beginning to be-
lieve that these are what are known as cold water eddies and
these eddies are beginning to answer a lot of questions that
people are trying to figure out as to just exactly what is
the mechanism of energy exchange between the ocean and the
atmosphere. Next slide.
GIBSON You'll have to work a little hard but I
think in the center of the picture to the left, you'll see
an island and you'll also see a wave coming off of that, This
is a bow wave and it's very much analogous to what you would
have in a speedboat. Here's bein_ the island. Here's a
SL-IC PCI32-E/2
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

series of waves which move off. As you move a boat through

the water, you would get a series of bow waves moving off.
Now we're moving the island through the water, if you will, or
the current past the island and we get a very analogous situation.
These waves in the water, were not always apparent close to
islands but here where we did have a strong current, it was.
This is the island south of New Zealand, the Antipodes Island
and we're able to - knowing the speed of propigation of the
wave here and the angle which you make back here, you're
able to also figure out the speed of the ocean current. This
has not been done yet, but it is - should be done quite easily.
Also cominB straiBht back from the island - that is _oing from
left to right, there is another darker line which you see which
is the island wake itself. Not wave, but just the wake of the
island. The fact that it's darker) implies to oceanographers
that it's a colder region of the ocean, cooler water coming
up from below and has led some people to speculate that with
this fairly substantial temperature difference, you could
Benerate thermal-electric power. People are lookin_ into
this - how feasible it is, I couldn't be sure right now. But
it sure would make an island like this which depends upon most
if its energy for from petroleum imports, it would make it
quite self-sufficient. Next slide. Now we're looking at some-
thing analogous to a wave that we saw before only now it's formed
in the clouds. Here we have the air with the clouds, moving
over an island down there in the lower right and a series of
waves coming off of it, analogous to the bow waves which we
saw in water, here we see the same effects in the clouds. What's
remarkable here is the extent of these waves. This picture
carries across about 200 miles and I'm sure if we looked a
little bit harder, we might be able to see a little bit beyond
that. That's an exceptionally large wave pattern and I would
have never suspected. I don't think many people would have also
that the wave pattern would propigate for this long distance
and affect the weather this far downstream. Also, interesting
there is if you look up close to the island, you see not only the
waves which are coming off in the same - the bow waves which
we've seen before, but there are some which run almost straight
back. They're very narrow, short wavelength and they're super-
imposed upon the other waves. This is unexpected and right
now, I don't have a good explanation for that. Maybe some
people who have thought a little more about it do. Most of the
time when we did see waves coming off islands like this in
the clouds we saw Carmen Vortices which is a series of
just circular patterns, spiraling patterns which alternate
left - or counterclockwise and clockwise. Very rarely did we
see a pattern which was so extensive and so beautiful as this
SL-IV PCI32-E/3
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

but this was a Food one and it's Foing to be studied a little
bit. Next slide, please.
POGUE This - this is southern Australia here
and we have the city of Melbourne located right up here. North
is generally in this direction here. 90-mile beach over here,
Tasmania down to the south. The - well there will be a pair
of pictures here and what I would like to call your attention
to is the value of the human operator in Fathering data from
space. This picture has merit in its own right but the the
pair of pictures shows rather _raphically the data that is -
that can be gathered by a rather spontaneous and on-the-spot
action by the human crewmember. If we could see the next
slide, please. Yes. Okay. Now you'll notice - if you can
recall, the previous slide and this slide, you'll notice again
we have the city of Melbourne located just above Prince Charles
Bay here I think. I'm having trouble with my pointer. But
the - the point here to make is that this picture here gives
us the color of the circular bay down in the lower left. The
previous slide _ave us a sunFlint pattern. Now the sun,lint
pattern will give us a lot of data regarding current flow and
water action, silt deposition and the like. The change, of
course, from one slide to the next, _ives us comparative
data. This slide here is better for total color, tone and
shading. The ne - the previous slide with the sunglint on
the water, gives us much better an idea of surface texture
in water flow patterns. Again, just pointing out the value
of an on-the-spot observation and a quick reaction by a human
operator.
CARR Bill, if you can get that pointer going,
would you point out the cultivated area there because I'm
going to be
POGUE Okay. It's - -
CARR Referring to that later.
POGUE It's up in the upper left, just above
the antenna. This is part of our rangeland and agricultural
area in southern Australia and -
CARR And the lower right area there is all
cultivated.
POGUE The lower riBht area down here, just to
the left of 90-mile beach that runs perpendicular, up and down
along the left. So we have ranch land and agricultural area in
this photograph. And it's not working too well.
CARR Do we have any hope for another pointer?
POGUE Next slide.
CARR Do we have a redundant pointer?
CARR Okay. This is - Sakurazima volcano in
southern Honshu right here and this was I think the first
active volcano we saw. And having been stationed in Japan, I
SL-IV PCI32-E/4
Time: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

_uess I became the resident expert on Japan in our crew and I

was always watching for something familiar. Whenever we went
over the area and there was old Sakurazima just smoking up
a storm one day. And the real value of pictures like this
is the fact that you can study the smoke plume and you can
study how the wind carries it and how it diffuses and spreads.
And the study of this and the understanding of how that smoke
plume moves around, is very valuable in our studies, our in-
terpretations of how manmade pollutants are - are wind carried.
Would you please show the next slide but keep this one ready
to flip to if necessary? Now this was taken the next ,Jay
and you can see that the smoke plume is gone considerably
more. The distance here is about 220 miles from the volcano
out here to about as far as you can see the smoke plume.
Notice that the smoke plume is still going sort of south-
easterly but you notice the southern side of the plume is a
very, very sharp line of demarcation and then it's sort of whispy
or feathery off to the north, indicating to me that there
must be some sort of a wind shear or something there where
you've got lower level winds going in a different direction
than upper level winds and when this smoke finally gets into
the upper level winds, it begins to be swept on up toward the
north and I think the people - -

END OF TAPE
SL-IV PCI32-F/I
TIME: 09:15 CDT
2/22/74

CARR - - where you've got lower level winds

going in a different direction than upper level winds, and
when the smoke finally gets into the upper level winds it
begins to be swept on up towards the north. And I think
the people in environmental studies are very interested
in - in the winds and how smoke is carried. And this smoke
here, though it's mostly steam, it does carry a lot of
nitrogen and sulphur and carbon dioxide it it. And this
I guess, is probably the first picture that was ever taken
that shows the complete smoke plume from a volcano. Back to
the next slide quickly and then move to the next one after
that. You can see there's been considerable - considerably
more diffusion in one day's period of time and it's about
essentially the same amount of smoke. Okay.
GIBSON We're lookin_ here at the South Island,
New Zealand. For any of you that are familiar with it,
there's a town of Christ Church underneath the clouds over
here on the right, and Cape Foulwind up here on the upper
left. Manual backup pull through. The prominent feature
here that interested us and we were trying to - to gather
data on for a long time is the linear feature which runs
north-south. This is a fault line, a wrench fault, if you
will. What has happened here is the land on the left has
moved up relative to the land on the right. This fault line
is part of the Circum-Pacific tectonic fault line, or series
of faults which runs all around the Pacific. It gives us infor-
mation on sea floor spreadin_ and continental drift. We were
so interested in this because it was able to demonstrate to
us as well as other people how obvious some of these faults
are from space. Granted you can hoof around and find much
of this on the ground but you really can't find the full
extent of it and find so many obvious manifestations. For
example, the vegetation on the left is much different than
it is on the right. It comes about primarily because of
the slope of the land is different. You can - let's just
take a look at, say this one little stream bed here. It's
very narrow here on the right hand side of the fault where
the water's running very rapidly; it's a very steep incline. And
then down here where the floor is a very gradual slope, it
tends to spread out_ and thatts true all the way alon_ here.
You can see the direction of the fault movement by seein_
the direction of the channel which has moved this way and
then finally up and to the left as you go across the fault.
We looked for faults all along in New Zealand. We were
very happy to get days like this. There were not too many
of them, hut we did get quite a few which were open in New Zealand
SL-IV PCI32-F/2
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low cloud cover and this is the first time, I think, we've
gotten some fairly substantial mapping of the area from
space. We did quite a bit of searching for faults, if you
will, especially over southern California, the San Andrea,
and so forth. This is a twin of San Andrea, if you will,
very much like it. And we have a whole host of pictures
which we brought back which the geologists will be working
with. Next slide, please.
POGUE This is a feature that we discovered in
Wisconsin as a circular feature which I'm tracing now with
the light here, which was unknown prior to the flight. This
is the Mississippi River here. The city of LaCross is
located right in here_ Eau Claire, Wisconsin up here, and this
is the western tip of Lake Superior. This is approximately
60 miles in diameter. It is interlaced with rivers that
run more or less east-west. And I looked this up in an
atlas last night and the circular feature does not show up,
but you can piece it together by using pieces of rivers and
a major road artery that goes around here. So the thing
actually does exist. We noticed this because of the snow
which provided a relief detection capability. In other words,
it just showed up when it had snow on it apparently. This
area has three possible port I say, sources of origin. It
could be volcanic_ it cantt be volcanic, so I threw that
out because the rocks are not volcanic. It could be structural
due to collapse or folding or something like that, and it
could be an impact crater. And they were goin_ to - the
geologists now are looking into movin_ into this area to try
to determine exactly what. It looks like now, probably structural
is tile best guess on this. The point here is that this
was an unknown structure prior to our flight. It is not
just a fictitious thing, it actually exists there, and with
it will be looked at. I would like for you to keep this in
mind and, in other words, it's not just a point of curiosity,
although itts certainly curious in its own right, but it
does have a relationship to other features which we saw in
orbit. Next slide, please. This circular feature here in
the lower right is a - the Manicouagan impact feature in Canada.
If down to the south here is Quebec City. The St. Lawrence
River runs along in this direction here. And we're we're
looking fairly north - far north in Canada again. This is
a little bit smaller than the feature in Wisconsin, about
50 miles in diameter, and 45 miles in diameter. It does
show up fairly well on an atlas, although the complete
circle cannot be detected. This is known to be of impact
origin and because of the way that the rocks have been broken
SL-IV PCI32-F/3
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up and mangled and so forth. Again the point is that we

were able to see a new feature, and of course, we feel that
you will always be discovering new things in space. Next
slide, please.
CARR Okay, this - this slide is one of many,
many slides that we took, many, many pictures we took
showing sand dunes. People are becoming aware of the fact
now that sand dunes are not always straight or slightly
crescent-shaped and rippley looking things like you see out
around Yuma, Arizona and the Sonoran Desert, and out in the
Sahara. We're beginning to find that as you look around
the world, and as the different wind patterns and geographic
features affect sand movement, we find different kinds of
sand dunes. And these sand dunes in this particular field
are rather star shaped. Every one of these little sand dunes
in here, when you look at them very closely in a real good
photograph, are star shaped, somewhat like a - somewhat like
a five_pointed star. Another very peculiar feature here is
that all of these little stars are on chains. If you can
follow the direction of the arrow here, I think you can begin
to detect rather linear patterns, so you have chains of
stars, And this again is very peculiar. We're gathering data
and the people from the geological survey who are studying
sand dunes are trying to come up with some sort of a rationale
as to why sand dunes seem to form in all these strange ways.
Another thing that we don_t show very well in this photograph,
but we have some excellent photos of it, are the edges of
some of these dune fields. One would think that a dune field
would come to an end when it hits a river, or when it runs
into, say a ridge of mountains or something like that. But
you would not expect a dune field to come to an abrupt hault
on flat land where there's no geographic nudge, you might
say, to cause it to change. And that seems to be the case right
here. As best we could see from space, this area where these
all these chains just abruptly come to an end is very flat.
There doesn't seem to be any logical geographical reason - geological
or geographical reason why that string of star dunes should
come to an abrupt halt. We saw sand dunes in the Algerian
Desert, in the Gobi Desert, the Sahara Desert, the deserts -
the Kalahari Desert down in southwestern Africa. There are sand
dunes in the United States and Mexico, South America. And they're
just not the same; they're all different. And the folks from
the geological survey are - have alert had alerted us
before we left that we should look for all the different types
we could find and whereever possibly document them photo-
graphically so that they could compare them and try to come
SL-IV 132-F/4
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up with some - some answers to these questions. Next slide

please. Okay, San Francisco.
POGUE Okay, I guess this is mine. Okay, when
it's good, it's real good, and when it's bad, it's still good.
This is not a particularly good picture for discriminating
objects, but it does show the San Andreas fault very graphically.
I don't want to dwell on this other than to say that every picture
that we get does have value. You have even some snow cover infor-
mation over here on the right. One of things that we would like
to avoid is gettin_ low contrast, like everythin_ here is
in shades of blue. But whatever we get we can use. Next
slide.

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CARR - photographically so that they

could compare them and try to come up with some some answers
to these questions. Next slide, please. Okay. San Francisco.
POGUE Okay. When it's good, it's real Rood
and when it's bad, it's still good. This is not a particularly
good picture for discriminating objects but it does show the
San Andreas Fault very graphically. I don't want to dwell on
this other than to say that every picture that we get does
have value. You have even some snow cover information over
here on the right. One of the things that we would like to
avoid is gettinR low contrast. Like everythin_ here is in
shades of blue. But whatever we get, we can use. Next slide.
SPEAKER Okay, Ed.
GIBSON This is a slide which is representative
of the type of data which we got in the northern part of the
Unite_ States, of course, in the the good season for snow
cover_ and that's what welre primarily interested in here
although we'll show quite a few other things. We're looking at
Lake Erie here_ Lake Ontario, the old hometown of Buffalo, New
York right there, Niagara Falls, Toronto over here. You can
see the sharp, relatively sharp cutoff of snow as you move
away from the lakes here. Seems though there's just a belt
of snow running from from the lower left to the upper
right, from this band right over to here and this is one of
the few times that this whole region was wide relatively
wide open. We did see on the lakes, a large number of these build-
ups of clouds as you move across the lakes. For example, here's
a good illustration of this. The wind would be blowing
from the lower left, pick up a little moisture over the re-
latively warm_ moist waters of the lake, start to condense
it out and then finally when you got over land which was re-
latively cool, it would really cause it to condense and dump
a lot of snow out on the region as it goes across. And that's
why the southern and the eastern side of the lakes usually end
up with quite a bit of snow. As I shoveled my driveway back
there three times in one day, I use to wonder this. Now we
also did study the Lake Ontario, especially for ice. Unfor-
tunately, the cloud cover was there most of the time but we
did get - manage to get a few pieces of data which I think
will show synoptically ho w the ice forms and what its dynamics
are. Right now, we've got it fairly early in the mission where
there was no ice. Next slide, please. Here's another area
which we studied quite a bit for ice. We're lookin_ at the
northernmost penninsula of Newfoundland, right here, and the
Strait of Bell Isle coming along here, and Quebec. This is
of course, a coastline as we move along here and we're looking
at the ice which is off to the right here. It's quite interesting
SL-IV PCI32-G/2
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to the people who want to study ice dynamics, formation and

the flow of ice, as to just how this process takes place.
We got many repetitive passes over this area. This was just
about at our highest latitude that we got. We were able to see
things quite clearly up to 55 degrees latitude here and be
able to see not quite so clearly beyond that.
CARR Bill, I think one time you saw the
mountains up at Bathan Bay.
POGUE Bathan Bay. Way up there north of Hudson
Bay, yes. The - there was a good low Sun angle, just at
dusk, but you can see a country mile up there and there's
no doubt about it. About 1600, I guess in any direction
which from lunar distance, it doesn't sound like a whole lot,
but still gives you a good view. Of course, the nice thing
about it, you'll say, "Why study the ice?" and boy golly,
we got a guy come in here and talk to us one mornin_ and we
came away ice enthusiasts and converts. It turns out that
if you melted all the sea ice here, you'd sink Florida. So
that's why this is important. (Laughter)
GIBSON This whole area we studied quite a bit
right down here is the Gulf of St. Lawrence which there was
an awful lot of ice formed on and changed quite dramatically
throughout the mission. For the people that are interested in ice,
this is brash ice and pancake ice, plumes of it reaching out, mostly
wind driven. Next slide please.
POGUE Oh - let's see. Trying to get my bearings.
I was wonderin_ if this is upside down or not. We're looking at
the Rampart Range of the Rockies here. It's right (garb]e)
my button. This is the Rampart Range. We have Pikes Peak,
Colorado Springs, the United States Air Force Academy, Denver,
Colorado, and we have to the north up in here - I can't - this
is Greeley. I think this is Cheyenne but I wouldn't stake
my reputation on it. Now. This orients you. We have the
Platte River, goes back up to the north, that's the South Platte
actually. Okay. So we have the Rocky Mountain area here,
the value of this photograph is for studies of snow cover
which has very important implications as far as our water-
shed is concerned. In fact, we have the Continental Divide
in here and the Continental Divide is roughly right alon_
in here. But this picture is important for two reasons. It
shows us the potential for using these photographs for snow
cover studies and to be able to analyze our watershed po-
tential. It also shows us some of our shortcomings. For
instance, there're a couple of things here that impair our
ability to calcuate snow cover. One is that there's so much-
I know this area fairly well in here and there're a lot of
trees in here. And this to some degree, degrades our data.
SL-IV PCI32-G/3
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So let's - we want to study that. Another thing is that you'll

see that some of these very deep valleys in here also shadow
the snow and make it difficult to use op certain optical
techniques for determining snow cover. So we have great
potential here. We also see some problem areas and we will
be studyin_ those. I would like for you to recall this photograph
because later on, we're going to look at an area around Flag-
staff, Arizona. I hope we get to that one and I'll show you
how we can get around that difficulty.
CARR I think another important point in this
particular picture too, another value of it is that you can
study metropolitan growth. We can see Denver as big as life
and you can see how Denver's growing and pictures like this
taken over two or three years of - will very, very graphically
show you how Denver's growing.
POGUE I don't think that demographers really
realize what potential we had for using snow cover photographs
for determining these metropolitan areas. This is excellent.
CARR Next slide.
GIBSON As Jerry mentioned before, one of the
things that we can do from orbit is to look at smoke plumes
and determine a little bit about how these smoke plumes carry
and what you're likely to expect in the way of condensation
and dropout from plume from pollution. Here we're lookin_ at
some oil well fires off the coast of Louisianna. This is
one goin_ off of Marsh Island here and this is on the southern
side of Vermilion Bay. This is the Atchafalaya River coming
down here into the Atchafalaya Bay. We're able to also see some
of the sedimentation and how it's carried, how it's moved out into
the Gulf. The smoke plumes themselves, this one is about i00 miles
long as shown here and I believe there was some succeeding
photographs showing how this thing progressed further out into
the Gulf, So it does go for quite a few hundreds of miles.
As we looked at it with other wavelengths, I'm sure we'd find
the effects far downstream. The wind was quite strong here.
You can see by the narrowness of the - both the narrowness and the
straightness of the plume itself. We did get quite a few of
these, both from - from fires like this, from brush fires over
in Africa, we saw quite a few and from pollution sources within
our own country. Next slide please.
CARR Okay. This is - this is a pretty good
indication of a good picture showing agricultural area. This
was taken in Australia and what we have here is a dry lake.
We have surrounding this dry lake, a lot of very well cultivated
areas and you have these areas here which are either burned or
we have ground that really isn't suitable for cultivation. One
of the thinRs you can do from space, I'm convinced of this is
SL-IV PCI32-G/4
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that you can do an excellent job even just visually or with

handheld cameras, you can do an excellent job of assessin_
the crops that are being grown down there. If you'll remember
early - earlier in the slide presentation, I asked you to
remember down around Melbourne, some of those that cultivated
area down there. And you see it's a great deal like this one.
You can see the very, very stron_ rectilinear pattern.
That's cultivation. Ran_eland is also extremely easy to see.
You can very definitely and very easily see man's effect on
the Earth. When a man puts up a fence, he makes a change down
there and just in the way the animals graze. And the way the
animals graze, is going to affect the land. We very definitely
saw changes in color. When we first got up there in November and
December, we looked at the wheat producinE areas of the southern
hemisphere which are essentially northwest or southwestern and
southeastern Australia and Argentina, south of Buenos Aires, and
down around Gulfo de San Juan down - down or San Jorge down
below that. But the fact was that in December and in November,
the fields were essentially brown which I guess meant that they
were - it was early in the season. They were plowed or a laying
fallow and had not yet started their growth. By late January,
and early February, there was a very definite chan_e in color
of all these fields that we could see, especially the wheat
fields since they were larger. You could see the different
shades of green. You could see the rather chartreuse green of
new growth and you could see the very deep rich green of the
more mature crops. And photographic coverage of that sort of
thin_ in infrared as well as color photography is certainly of
great value to man in bein_ able to assess world-wide what the
what the wheat crop situation is for a given time. In northern
Australia, they were having one heck of a drought and we flew
over and took many pictures of the northern Australian drought
area and through central Africa, we took many pictures of the
drought area there. While we were up there, the northern
Australia drought area had a very huge rainfall

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CARR But we feel, since they were larger, you

could see the different shades of green. You could see the
rather chartreuse green of new _rowth, and you could see the
very deep rich green of the more mature crops. And photo-
graphic coverage of that sort of thing in infrared as well
as color photography is certainly of great value to man in
being able to access worldwide what the, say the wheat crop
situation is for a given time. In northern Australia they
were having one heck of a drought, and we flew over and took
many pictures of the northern Australia drought area, and
through central Africa, we took many pictures of the drought
area there. While we were up there, the northern Australia
drought area had a very huge rainfall in a short period of
_me, and they had terrible flooding problems. And I think
most of you might remember the story that came out about the
flooding and everything around the Gulf of Carpenteria. And
we _ot some good pictures of that. And it just goes to show
you what a - what a disaster a drought can be, because once
you have a drought and the foliage dies off, if you _et hit
by a bi_ rain, the erosion just wipes you out, ruins your
topsoil. And we've got very, very good pictures of all of
this from space, which I'm sure that people who are studying
these areas are going to find of great value.
POGUE Yeah, you engorged rivers 500 miles inland
in northeastern Australia.
CARR And they're just hauling the silt down
and dumping it in the water. You see all that good topsoil
just being carried out to sea. Next slide.
POGUE Okay. This is mine.
POGUE This now, is false color IR_ or color IR,
infrared, using the Earth terrain camera. This is the city
of Birmingham, Alabama, and it's the this road here is the
main road down to Montgomery, which lies on down here, so
that north is generally on the left side of the photograph.
We've look at faulted, folded, and bent, broken Southern
Appalachain Mountains. That's what all of these features are
here. The main purpose of this is to show you that we can,
by using - and also, you'll notice the false blue color of
the bodies of water here. The main purpose here is that by
using carefully selected photographic techniques, we can
enhance the things we want to look at; we can subdue the
things that confuse us, and we can extract the maximum data.
Next slide please.
PAO We're beginning to run short on time_ so
we need to kind of excelerate here if we can.
CARR I think this picture pretty much stands
on itself. Right up here is where it all started. And we
never failed to take a picture where it all started anytime
we got over it. But let me point out quickly some interesting
SL IV PC-132H/2
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things about this. This is also an infrared picture. Notice

how red it is around here on Merritt Island. That's because
of all that vegetation there. That's all _ood healthy
vegetation, and it shows up a nice rich red. As you _et down
in this area where it becomes more populated, you begin to
see the gray areas in between population. There's Cocoa
Beach. Right there is Patrick Air Force Base. Another thing
that is of value to the meteorological people is the fact
that the cloud shadows here are extremely well defined. And
it gives them an opportunity to study cloud shapes and forms
from this sort of distance. Next slide.
CARR This is another photo taken by the Earth
terrain camera, and it shows the dynamics, if you will, or
the amount of sedimentation which is carried into a bay here.
We're looking at the town of Mobile right here, Mobile Bay.
Here we have two rivers coming together, the Tombigbee River
and the Alabama River come together, move down through this
river channel, and through many outlets come into the bay here,
and eventually on out into the Gulf. The sedimentation motion,
I think is well defined here, and we've gotten - we made a
fairly concentrated effort to study mouths of rivers and the
sedimentation flow. And I think we'll have some useful
data for the folks who are worried about how the land is
redistributed in this way. Next slide.
POGIE All right. This is an area of northern
Arizona here. This is meteor craters. This is Humphrey's
Peak, the town of Flagstaff, Arizona and U.S. 66 is comin F
right along in here. I re - referred earlier to the photograph
of Denver and told you that the primary value of that photograph
was in accessing snow cover. We're looking in an area very close
to the Salt Verde Watershed, which is very important in Arizona
for obvious reasons. They have to manage their water very
carefully. I mentioned the problem we had in avoiding the
problems caused by shadows and vegetation and by the use of
color infrared. We can partially obviate that problem and get
rid - the vegetation will show up as a red in this area, but
by using the various techniques, we can cancel out the detrimental
effects of certain other features and come up with a sort of a
total picture of the watershed of an area. And that's sort of
that is the way we handled this one sort of problem. Next slide.
CARR Okay. This is the last slide. This is
down in Baja, California, and what you're looking at is an-
other chance we got to look at a fault, and this is the
Agua Blanca Fault. And you can see it right there, and it
goes all the way from the Gulf of California, which is down
here, all the way up and you can just kind of trace sort of
a linear pattern all the way to where it drops into the sea.
SL IV PC-132H/3
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This, by the way, is another little sidelight, look at that

little eddy in the clouds right there. Very interesting to
the people studying meteorology. The geologists, I hope,
will be able to get a lot of information from this. One
item of interest is this transform, or cross-fault right here,
and what we're looking for is the other end of it. You know,
you've got fault line here, which is a sheer line between
two hunks of ground, essentially that has slid, and the _uess
is that maybe this area right here has something to do with
that, but we have a cross- fault here, and we're busy looking
for the other side of it. And you can see a few stream beds
in here that are displaced by a very large amount• And as
Bill and Ed both mentioned, the San Andreas Fault has gotten
a lot of coverage from us. I think it's going to give us a
lot better understanding of the fault zones and the earthquake
situation in California. Baja California, and western
Mexico were very, very extensively covered photographically,
as well as down around the Chile and Peru coast, the Autocoma
Fault was extremely well lighted for us at all times. We
certainly got a lot of good photography of that area. And
that should just about tie it up.
SPEAKER Okay. The crew is still on a busy de-
briefing schedule and we've got somewhat less than 20 minutes
for questions, so we'll take those now. Bill Crommey.
QUERY During the latter part of the flight
you all three described experiencing changes in attitude
towards human value. I believe it was sort of more humanistic
orientation. Could you describe - each one of you describe
those feeling for us?
CARR I think we pretty well covered those in
flight, as to how we felt that we had changed. I'll try to
keep mine brief, and just say that I think that the trials
and tribulations and the things that we looked at; the things
that we were exposed to up there have kind of heightened my
awarenes of the world around me, made me a whole lot more
interested in spreading my horizons and getting away from just
one narrow pursuit of either occupation or interest. I now
have a much wider interest in many things in the world.
GIBSON I would say that I had a little different
viewpoint, but it's primarily the - boils down to the same
thing in the end product, and that is world unity. I saw
how small the world really is, and how little difference there
really is between one piece of land and another. All the
divisions are manmade, and I certainly would like to see
everybody get that type of perspective, and I'm sure we'd
move towards world unity a little bit faster.
SL IV PC-132H/4
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POGUE Well, I call share these views. I cer-

tainly developed a greater sense of value of the individual
and the potential that lies within each individual for making
contributions to himself and to society. I don't know exactly
how to explain it, other than the fact that again, one becomes
more or less tuned to and greater - with a greater sensitivity
to your own thought processes and the way that you look at
the world. I would - I think that attitude and feelings are
really everything and - in dealing with problems. Although
I think that we do have to have technical capability, and
I certainly - I enjoy doing teehnica] work. I think that
there is a proper balance that can be achieved. I don't
think that you can swing the pendulum too far in either
direction. If you do this, all you do is destroy your own
balance and outlook. I hope to some degree that I have more
or less restored the balance and outlook I have on life.

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SL-IV PC-1321/I
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POGUE I hope to some degree that I have, more

or less, restored the balance and the outlook I have on life.
QUERY Yesterday Senator Frank Moss of Utah said
that a dot on an ERTS satellite picture of Mount Ararat in
eastern Turkey might turn out to be Noah's ark. The Bible
said that that is where Noah's ark is supposed to have landed.
In your mission, in any of your photographs, did you see
or photography anything like that? Do you expect that anything
like that might show up in any of your photographs?
POGUE Well I think that most certainly you're
going to find all sorts of new revelations and new things up
there. I have no reason to doubt the people's thoughts there
on the Mount Ararat thing. We saw nothing like that on Mount
Ararat_ but_ the capability is up there. You can look down
on Earth and you can see the big picture. You can see things
in completely different relationships one to the other. And
so I have no reason to believe that you can't really discover
a lot of new things. And we feel we have discovered a lot
of things about the Earth by just being off from a distance
and being able to see the whole area,
QUERY This is for Bill Pogue. Bill_ you and
your mates were up there for 84 days. What did you miss
the most? Remember, this is for television now.
POGUE Well, I think we're all family men and
we missed our families the most. I missed being - I think the
most enjoyable part of the day is being with the family in
the evening. And this is what I missed the most.
QUERY I guess for Jerry, you did have the - man's
longest mission and all. And would you have been willing to have
stayed an additional 3 months, I mean provided all the you
had all the food and water and so forth you needed? And what
is going to be needed in the psychological comforts for a
year or 2-year mission?
CARR Well, the first part of your question,
yes, I think if there were something productive to do up
there and we had all the other things taken care of we would
have been willing to stay. But it had to be worth it to
stay up there, not just staying up to see how lon_ we could
stay. There had to be something productive to be done. Psycho-
logically I think man has got to be able to- there have got
to be things to divert your mind. You can't run in the channel
too long up there, youtve got to be able to relax, put your
feet up, think about things you've got to be able to completely
divert your mind from what's going on there into some other
area. We of course, the most interesting thing for us, the
way for us to divert our minds was looking out the window.
That was really great. We enjoyed that more than anything
 T

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else. But we also tried to do as much reading as we could,

we also tried to do a little bit of writing. But I think for a long
year-lonE_ or several-year-lonE missions we're going to have
to develop systems where a guy can divert himself, that is
thinEs like movies and television and lots of good literature,
good music. You've got to be able to get your mind off the
work, and as we say in the flying game, close the hangar doors
and go off and do something completely different.
QUERY For either of you, were there times where
you just got on each others nerves, and was there tension
between you and what caused it if there was?
GIBSON Well, I think we answered that in flight
and other times also. Of course everybody has got their
own idiosynchrocies, but these, whatever frictions that
might be caused by those were relatively small compared to
the realization that all three of us were in this thin_ together.
And we started cooperatinE I think when we were assigned to
the flight and that spirit's remained and I've been very happy
with it.
CARR I think that we are a very fortunate crew
in that our personalities_ our character is all rather compli-
mentary. We all seem to there was somebody to pick up
where the other guys weren't too interested. Like, I think
Bill is a creative kind of guy, pretty philosophical kind of
guy. Ed is the kind of guy who likes to look ahead and know
what's coming and plan and get ready, and I'm kind of an execute
man. Bill can dream up some neat ideas, and Ed will plan ahead,
and i'll see that it gets done. And the three of us just kind
of - we all mixed up well together, complimented each other's
ability.
QUERY Executioner.
CARR I think we were very fortunate that we
were put together in this way because it worked to our advantage.
And we had no difficult times up there at all.
QUERY How about when you returned to Earth, was
there anything that had transpired here that you recall that
you had not been aware of, of course, while you were on the space
station? Anything surprising happen on Earth that struck you
when you got back?
CARR I think the folks on the ground did a
very good job of keeping us aware of what was going on in
the world. Our little morning newscast that we got from the
Euys was very good and we appreciated it. I personally was
most impressed by my family when I got back. I thought they
had carried just beautifully while I was gone. And that is
the one thine that nobody told me about, about how beautiful
my family was. They got alon_ beautifully without me. My
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wife kept things together, and the kids got sort of a kindred
spirit and they all just worked together and bore up under the
fact that the old man was gone. And thatts the thing that
really impressed me.
GIBSON Kind of scares you a little bit.
CARR Yeah,
QUERY This is a question I am relaying for
Mary Bubb at the Cape. It's for all three of you_ and I'd
llke an opinion from all three of you. Was there anything
in space such as weightlessness, isolation from Earth or
physiological changes which caused you difficulties during
the first 6 weeks of the mission including what appeared to
be excessive fatigue, mild depression, and slowness in doing
tasks?
GIBSON Well I think in the first 6 weeks or I'd
say about the first 20 to 30 days, we were all working pretty
hard and behind in the power curve as we call it in the flying
game. We started working hard, and the harder you work the
more tired you get and the less efficient you get and therefore
the harder you've got to work. And I think this is something
we learned as we went into the flight how to keep the time line
in the right perspective. And after that first 20 or 30 days,
we learned how to carry it out and we are very happy with the
results from there on. But it was a very valuable lesson
to us and I think to everybody else,
CAKR I think maybe that the adversity, we consider
to be adversity we had the first 20 to 30 days of tke mission
where we were really running hard and running behind, and
working hard to try to get caught up. I think that's the thing more
than anything that triggered the feelings that Bill and the
three of us talked about about human value and human sensitivities.
If you start playing the machine game, playing the numbers
game, you lose your humanism, and your human sensitivities.
And this is somethinK that I think was very graphically brought
home to us. And we finally realized that if you will just sit
down and talk to people about what is not working right and
what is working right, and get a little dialogue going
that things really smooth out. And just as soon as we had
our conference on day 28, and the ground told us where their
hanKups were and we told the ground where our hangups were,
thinks smoothed out and we really got to hustling. And I think
this really is a pretty good demonstration of the value of
humanism,
POGUE Analogy there that seems to me to be valuable
is that it doesn't take much overrun in scheduling to destroy the
total operation. It's like a family that makes $i0,000 a year
and trying to spend ii. I mean or 5 dollars more than what

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you make. It's just the difference between contentment and

misery. There is not there is a very very fine distinction
there and when you go just beyond that point, then the whole system
goes unstable. And I think that it looked very reasonable to
some people_ but it was just a little beyond what we really could
have done well and properly.
QUERY The three of you set a new endurance record
for man in space and sent back an awful lot of scientific
data_ but you really didn't get the headlines that previous
space missions have been accorded. And I wonder how much
that bothers you that your work really didn't get the recognition
that the work of previous astronauts did?
GIBSON I think that there is a natural inclination
on the part of everybody to want to see what they are doing
recognized by the people around them. But at the same time
we have to realize what is the state of the space program
now, and we moved into what you call more operational phase,
the phase where we are busy accomplishing thinks which are
no lon_er new and different but which we just go into in more
detail as we have tried to illustrate to you this morning.
Importance and newsworthy are not necessarily the same thinE.
We realize it, it's a fact of life. But on the other hand
it tells us the maturity of the space program.
QUERY (Garble)
GIBSON Yes.
QUERY For the future of the space program though
from the standpoint of - -

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QUERY Yes. For the future of the space program

though, from the standpoint of _etting new funds and every-
thing, isn't it necessary to really keep up the interest
in the program as far as the public _oes; as far as the
people who spend the money in Washington?
GIBSON That it - that is certainly is. I think
it's up to us to try to tell the public what we are doing
which is of importance and which is of usefulness to them.
That's what we've been trying to do and we will do for quite
a few months to come. We're disappointed, of course, if we
don't get the immediate recognition which goes with the
spectaculars, so our work becomes a little bit harder. But
nonetheless we intend to carry it out.
CARR I think as a marine I think maybe this
sort of thing is kind of like the old - the marine - the
beachhead thing, you know, when you make your landing,
your amphibious landing, and you roll in and all the action's
on the front lines and nobody pays much attention to what's
going on back at the beachhead after the front lines move
inland and they're busy consolidating. And as far as I can
see I think that what we are in now in space, particularly in
Skylab, we were in a consolidation phase. That is we're
beginning to find out what we can do. We've proved that we
can get up there and get back safely. And the question now is
what can we do while we're up there? And I think that in
Skylab we've definitely shown a _reat deal of potential there.
We've, I think, without a doubt established the need for
man in space; not just robots and satellites.
QUERY Could each of you give us an illustration
of the effects on your day-to-day life that - just some mundane
things of your readaptation to the one _.
CARR Well, at first the readaptation to one g
Well, let me hit the zero-g part first, really. The first
2 or 3 weeks in zero-g, you know, you're always thinkin_
about getting from here to there and how am I going
to anchor myself when I get there, and that all has to be
thought about. But after you've been there for awhile and
you've worked out a scheme of your own for how you handle
yourself, you begin to forget about that and you begin to get
on with the work at hand. And I do remember very distinctly
on the ship that I was right back in the same boat in one g
and that was how am I going to get from here to there without
ricocheting off the walls, and the very same thing. You spend
the first week very concerned with how you're going to get
from here to there, and what you're going to do when you get

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there. And then after a few weeks good old Mother Nature
helps you accommodate to your environment. And now I don't
worry about any of that anymore, I'm more concerned with
what I do when I get there. It's all very natural, Jt just
and if you just kind of rear back and quit worrying about
all the details of things, you know. _,_enever you change
a man's environment it takes time to accommodate, and you
got to learn new things, new skills, reestablish old skills
or something like that.
PAO Okay, thank you very much.

END OF TAPE

NASA-JSC

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