stratford (Electrical) 15 Feb 07 13:21

Good evening to all. On site we have a Gas Turbine GE 9FA DLNII. SOme time before we
noticed a sudden loss of flame to one of the 4 flame detectors, after one minute we hde high
exhasut spread temperatures and consequent trip of the turbine. When we put back the unit it
seemed OK. Can you suggest for a possible cause?

26 Feb 07 16:00
Romefu12 (Mechanical)

Stratford
Diagnostics of the 9FA and DLN 2.0 takes some rather substantial expertise and a host of data
download of the event from the control, Mark VI is presume and a host of control tags to
determine what actually happened to give you a loss of flame and subsequent HETS trip. You
would need to know many conditions such as DWATT Load, DLN Mode, was the unit
transfering mode at the time and lengthy list of the control tag data. Have you tried asking GE to
diagnose?

Kind Regards
Romefu12

stratford (Electrical) 4 Mar 07 5:16

Romefu12, thank you very much for your answer. During trip from eaxhasut t/c sread we have
noticed only that one of the flame detectors 28FD-15 showed 0 and as a consequence we had the
exhaust spread and the trip. Load was steady, gas flow the same.
We suspect that one combustion chamber went OFF.
Does this make sense?
rmw (Mechanical) 5 Mar 07 21:41

That is exactly why you have the control logic that you do because you can suffer a flame out in
only one combustion can while still maintaining flame in the others. It may or may not be one
with a flame detector depending on your turbine. A significant exhaust temperature spread will
be an indicator of this, and that is why the logic takes it out.

rmw

7 Mar 07 12:19
Romefu12 (Mechanical)

Stratford
It is not unusual for 1 can to suffer a flame out. If you do suffer a flame out you will create a
substantial High Spread. You need to download the Exhaust Thermocouple Spread data during
the event (Control Tags TTXD1 thru TTXD27) and your FD_INTENS_1 thru FD_INTENS_4
to determine when you lost the flame sensor data. I suspect if you lost flame the control would
interpret this event as a cold spot. If you could tell me at what Unit Load and what type of fuel
was being used when this happened I could probably tell you which combustion can or cans to
inspect thru a predicted swirl calculation. This could be a hardware issue, a fuel contamination
issue, or other mechanical issue with the purge circuit. Many things could cause this issue.
Romefu12
stratford (Electrical) 11 Mar 07 5:29

Romefu12, seconds before the fault the load of Gas Turbine was 260MW (base load), flame
intensity was 61-63-60-58 on the four detectors, then we had L28FDD alarm (detector 4 went to
0), then COMBUSTION TROUBLE and finally HIGH EXHAUST TEMPERATURE SPREAD
TRIP. The spread was caused by Exhaust TC 17. Also if you can you can send me this swirl?
Thank you in advance. Our GE support suspect also fuel contamination on the cans.

stratford (Electrical) 11 Mar 07 5:33

Also romefu12, the flame is lost before the spread and the fuel in natural gas (coming from
Russia). We only this GT only in natural gas due to several technical problems with liquid fuel.

13 Mar 07 13:08
Romefu12 (Mechanical)

Stratford
Your L28FDD alarm indicates loss of flame in Can 8. However your HIGH EXHAUST
TEMPERATURE SPREAD TRIP caused by Exhaust TC 17 indicates a swirl calculation @260
MW to indicate a problem with Can 4.

I would begin by borescope inspection of cans 3,4, 5, and 8.

Romefu12

samson16 (Electrical) 5 Apr 07 6:28

Dear Mr. Romefu12,

The conversation was quite informative and useful
Could u please post the Swirl chart (Load vs Swirl angle graph)for this machine. I was a startup
TA in GE few years ago and now I am a freelancer

Thanks and warm regards

Samson16
Plant was started up by the "SEQ Start". Sequence 20, 21 and 22 had step Disable, Sequence
23A and 23B had step Enable. (This was done for a reason) but this meant that the auto start held
at Sequence 23A StepA waiting to be stepped on.
The plant was then run up in manual.

Q1: With Seq 20, 21 and 22 Disabled and Seq 23A and 23B Enabled and the "Seq Start" initiated
but not complete, is it ok to "Reset" the "SEQ Start"?
If so then just by resetting Seq 20 will this rest all, or do we reset all individually?
Q2: If we do not reset any of the above and given that the auto start was not completed will the
"Seq Stop" if initiated do its job off load the plant?
Reply to this post...

Posted by markvguy on 25 January, 2007 - 1:36 am

This doesn't sound like any "standard" software. There have been numerous implementations of
"one-button" plant start-ups for cogeneration plants, which included the gas turbine but also
started boiler feedwater pumps, vacuum pumps, and on and on and on and... Some were
(MUCH) better than others. Some had a start command on the GE turbine operator interface
which was "tied" to the plant DCS one-button start. Does it normally work at your plant?

ALL of these schemes are pretty unique to the plant and equipment used at the plant, and there
are few plants which are built alike. There has been talk of some organization developing and
promoting a one-button start standard for years, but the status of the project is not known nor
where it originated (but the best money says somewhere in the European Union).

This sounds like a very sophisticated, and unusual, scheme which, without much more detail,
would be extremely difficult for this author to comment appropriately on--unless there are others
here with a similar system. It also sounds like the designer(s) built some kind of logical
ordering/numbering of steps/processes in for trouble-shooting and understanding.

Have you consulted your plant's Operation Manuals or Design Manuals for details? In most of
these one-button start schemes, the gas turbine control just gets signals to start, synchronize,
load/unload, in response to some "master" control, usually a DCS (which could be a Speedtronic
Mk VI these days!).

And, as you seem to be alluding to, there is always the "Manual" option when the one-button
start doesn't satisfy.

There have been horror stories about "one-button start" start-ups which took months and years of
work, only to be finally abandoned in favor of the traditional human operator coordinating events
and activities. Great idea--quite not seen through to a successful conclusion.
GE 9FA Gas Turbine Generator Set Technical Data:
GE 9FA Gas Turbine Generator Set is one of the most advanced technology gas turbine generator,
and one of the highest capacity gas turbine genset in the world.
Capacity: 255.6MW
Single cycle efficiency: 36.9%
Preliminary temperature: 1288 Celsius degrees, exhausted temperature: Celsius degrees.
Pressure ratio: 15.4

9FA GE gas Turbine body:

The 9FA GE gas turbine generator set's main body is composed of booster, combustion chamber,
turbine, bearing, bearing box, rear and front support and turbine base. there are five chambers.
the booster is of 18 stages, turbine of 3 stages, and pull type rotor.
The GE 9FA gas turbine generator set was licensed by GE to our Chinese famous producer of
Harbin. And now it is under nationalization under cooperative efforts of GE and Harbin. All the
main parts are from GE, and every turbine will be certified and test by GE or GE authorized
technicians or parties.
In March,2003, HPEC signed Technology Transfer Agreement (TTA) of 9FA heavy-duty gas turbine
with GE. GE has transferred all 9FA gas turbine manufacture
technology to HPEC except for components which are forbidden to export by American
government.

Here is a list of reference of installed 9FA GE gas turbine generator power plants:

Item Name User finished Date

1 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant Hangzhou 2004-06

2 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant zhangjiagang 2004-09

3 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant Huadian 2004-10

4 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant Shanghai 2004-12

5 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant Hangzhou 2005-12

6 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant Huadian 2005-01

7 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant shanghia 2005-02

8 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant zhangjiagang 2005-03

9 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant zhangjiagang 2005-05

10 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant huadian 2005-06

11 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant hanzhou 2005-07

12 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant ningbo 2005-09

13 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant zhujiang 2005-12

14 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant ningbo 2006-01

15 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant zhujiang 2006-03

16 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant nanjing 2006-04

17 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant nanjing 2006-07

18 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant beijing 2006-11

19 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant beijing 2007-04

20 9FA GE gas turbine generator plant fujian 2007-11

Detailed Technical Specification on GE 9FA Gas turbine generator power plant

1. GE 9FA Gas Turbine
Most Mature Gas Turbine in the World �Biggest Market Share on F Heavy-Duty GT
� Advanced Cooling Technology and Hot Material
� Max Reliability and Availability
� Short Installation Period
� Flexible Start Mode
� Least Maintenance
GE Heavy Duty Gas Turbine Type Definition
PG9351= PG 9 35 1 FA
Power Generation
Frame Size
First 2 Digits of Horse Power
1 Shaft
Firing Temperature
PG9351 Performance Data (ISO condition)

Fuel NG

Output (MW) 255.6 &, ;, ;nbs, p;

Heat Rate (kJ/kWh) 9,757

Efficiency(%) 36.9

Pressure Ratio 16.5

Airflow (kg/sec) 641

GT Speed (rpm ) 3000

Fire Temperature(�?/SPAN>) 1327

Exhaust Temperature
602
(�?/SPAN>)

Power Factor 0.85 (Lagging)

Combined Cycle Performance Data S109FA:

Output (MW) 390.8 Heat Rate (kJ/kWh) 6350 Efficiency(%) 56.7 1 GT +1 ST ISO Condition
�?/SPAN>Fuel =NG S209FA: Output (MW) 786.9 Heat Rate (kJ/kWh) 6305 Efficiency(%) 57.1 2 GT
+1 ST
Main Component of Flange to Flange (F-F): Compressor Combustion Turbine Frame & Diffusion
Compressor

NO. of Stages 18

Type Axial Flow

Transonic Stages 1st, 2nd stage

NO. of VIGV 1

88º�?/SPAN>Open�?/SPAN>49º�?/
VIGV angle range
SPAN>Close�?/SPAN>

Casing split Horizon Split

Type of Rotor
Assembly of Wheels, Tie bolts
Construction

9, 13 stage air
Turbine Cooling, Preventing Surging
extraction

DLN 2.0 + Combustion: Emission (NG):

NOX �?/SPAN>25 ppmvd

CO �?/SPAN>15 ppmvd

VOC �?/SPAN> 2 ppmvd

DLN 2.0 + Combustion

Type Can annular reverse flow

NO. of burners 18

NO. fuel nozzles / burner 5

Type of igniters NO. of igniters Type of

Spark Plug 2 Silicon Carbide 4
Flame Detectors NO. of Flame Detector

Turbine

NO. Stages 3

Casing split Horizon Split

Absolute total temperature

at inlet of 1st stage nozzle

~1420 �?/SPAN>
�?/SPAN>ISO�?/SPAN>

Absolute total temperature

at inlet of 1st stage bucket

1327 �?/SPAN>
�?/SPAN>ISO�?/SPAN>

3 Stages Buckets

Second
First Bucket Third Bucket
Bucket

Material DSGTD-111 EQGTD-111 EQGTD-111

Coating GT-2912 GT-2912 GT-2912

Adopt Cooling ? Yes Yes NO

DS=Directionally Solidified
EQ= Equiaxed
3 Stages Nozzles
 Second
First Nozzle Third Nozzle
Nozzle

Material FSX-414 GTD-241 GTD-241

Coating ? N/ N/ N/

Adopt Cooling ? Yes Yes NO

Turbine First Stage Cooling

1:Impingement Cooling
2:Convection Cooling
3:Film Cooling
Turbine Assembly, Test
Purpose:
� To test dynamic balance of GT at FSNL
� To test GT Performance
�FSNL=Full Speed No Load
GE Method vs. EOH Method

4000Hours/year
8000Hours/year
300
160 Starts/year
Starts/year

GE 4 years 3 years

EOH 2.4 years 2.1 years

Hot Gas Path Maintenance Intervals Comparisons. GE Method vs. EOH Method
PG9351 Estimated Repair and Replacement Cycle

Replace
Repair Replace Interval
Interval
Interval (hours)
(starts)

Combustion
CI 5(CI) 5(CI)
Liners

Caps CI 5(CI) 5(CI)

Transition Pieces CI 5(CI) 5(CI)

Fuel Nozzles CI 3(CI) 3(CI)

Crossfire Tubes CI 1(CI) 1(CI)

End Covers 6(CI) 3(CI)

Stage 1Nozzles HGPI 2(HGPI) 2(HGPI)

Stage 2Nozzles HGPI 2(HGPI) 2(HGPI)

Stage 3Nozzles HGPI 3(HGPI) 3(HGPI)

Stage 1 Buckets HGPI 2(HGPI) 2(HGPI)

Stage 2 Buckets HGPI 1(HGPI) 3(HGPI)

Stage 3 Buckets HGPI 3(HGPI) 3(HGPI)

CI= Combustion Inspection Interval

HGPI=Hot Gas Path Inspection Interval

Firing Hours Starts

CI : 8000 450

HGPI: 24000 900

2. 9FA Combined Cycle

9FA Combined Cycle
Arrangement
� SS109FA: Single Shaft Combined Cycle
1GT+1ST+1GEN
� MS109FA:Multiple Shaft Combined Cycle
1 GT+1GEN
1ST+1GEN
� MS209FA: Multiple Shaft Combined Cycle
1GT+1GEN
1ST+1GEN
1GT+1GEN
3. Steam Turbine(158#&152#)158#�?09FA�?/SPAN> 152#�?09FA
109FA Single Shaft Combined Cycle Steam Turbine158# Steam Turbine
�?/SPAN>D10 Optimized�?/SPAN>
158# Steam Turbine
� 3 Pressure, Single reheat , Impulse,
Condensing Turbine
� Combined HP-IP casing
� LP:double Casing, double flow
� Stages:27 stages
HP�?2�?/SPAN>IP�?�?/SPAN>LP�?×6
� LSB Length:900mm
158 # ST Performance Data (Hengmen Project)

Output 130.728MW

Rating Speed 3000r/m

564.3
HP MS T, P �?/SPAN>,
9.510MPa

HP MS Flow 282.79 t/h

564
RHS �?/SPAN>,
2.206MPa
IP Flow 312.15 t/h

314
LP Steam T, P �?/SPAN>,
0.3506MPa

LP Steam Flow 354.08t/h

ST Back P 7.6kPa

209FA Multi-Shaft Combined Cycle Steam Turbine 152# Steam Turbine

152# ST Structure
� 3 Pressure, Single reheat , Extraction
Condensing Turbine
� Combined HP-IP casing
� LP:double casing , double flow
� Stages:25 stages
HP�?0�?/SPAN>IP�?�?/SPAN>LP�?×6
� LSB Length:1000mm
4. 390H Generator
50Hz,397MW, 390H Hydrogen-Cooled Generator
390H Main Parameter
� Model:390H
� Rating Output:397.8MW (Cooling water
Temperature :28.6�?/SPAN>�?/SPAN>
� Rating Capacity: 468MVA
� Max Continuous Output:424MW
� Rating Voltage:19kV
� Rating Frequency:50Hz
� Rating Power Factor: 0.85(Lagging�?/SPAN>
� Rating Excitation Voltage:750V
� Rating Excitation Current :1998A
� Rating Pressure of Hydrogen:0.414Mpa
� NO. of Phase:3
� NO. of Poles:2
� Excitation Mode: Static Excitation
5. Performance Test (Zhangjiagang Plant)

Guarantee
Condition:

15.4�?/SPAN
Ambient T:
>

Ambient P: 101.61kPa

RH : 80%

Back Pressure : 5.381kPa

Guarantee Performance Margin Guar

 results

Output�?/SPAN>MW�?/SP
395.86 399.531 +0.93% Yes
AN>

Heat rate �?/SPAN>

6249.1 6181.3 -1.06% Yes
kJ/kWh�?/SPAN>

Performance Test (Taiyangong plant)

Guarantee
Condition

-4.2�?/SPAN>
Ambient T

Ambient P 102.36kPa

RH 43%

Back Pressure 3.4 kPa

Performance Complianc
Guarantee Margin
results Guarantee

Outpu�?/SPAN>MW�?/SPA
364.1 365.865 +0.48% Yes
N>

Heat rate (kJ/kWh�?/SPAN> 6311 6309.1 -0.03% Yes

Re: what is the abrivation of GE- 9FA and 9E gas turbines Answer
#1
GE 9FA &9E MEANS FRAME 9A &9E GAS TURBINES, 9= MODEL
NUMBER,A&E VERSIONS

Is This Answer Correct ?

6 Yes 4 No
0
Madhu
Re: what is the abrivation of GE- 9FA and 9E gas turbines Answer
#2
GE 9FA 400MWATT STEAM TURBINE FOR PRODUCING ELECTRICITY

GE-9E 145MWATT

Is This Answer Correct ?

2 Yes 11 No
0
Theo Vissers
 Re: what is the abrivation of GE- 9FA and 9E gas turbines Answer
#3
Gas turbines of GE make are denoted by Frame i.e. Frame -
V, Frame - VI, Frame - IX etc.

Frame - 9E gas turbine means serial no. 9001 , 9171 E etc

For 9171 E - 9 means the frame number, 17 means 170000 HP,

1 means single shaft and E is the latest modification

9FA is a high end frame 9 machine i.e. has higher rating

than 9E

Is This Answer Correct ?

8 Yes 1 No
0
Mob
Re: what is the abrivation of GE- 9FA and 9E gas turbines Answer
#4
GE gas turbines were basically divided into 2 different
classes.
1. E - class Ex: 6B, 9E
2. F - class Ex: 6FA, 7FA, 7FB, 9FA, 9FB,9FA+e

F class machines are newer machines and has higher power

generation capacity.

9FA means : "9" indicates Frame size and "F" indicates F -

class machine. FA and FB are two categories of F - class
machines.

9E means : "9" indicates Frame size and "E" indicates E -

class machine.

9FA+e means : "9" indicates Frame size, "F" indicates F -

class machine and "+e" indicates extended version of 9FA.

For ex: 9FA+e 'inspection interval' is more compared to 9FA.

Is This Answer Correct ?

4 Yes 0 No
0
Naga
Re: what is the abrivation of GE- 9FA and 9E gas turbines Answer
#5
9 means frame size and f is the class size in 9FA

and 9FE means frame size is 9 and class is E

 Is This Answer Correct ?
0 Yes

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

I don't know about the specifics of that engine, but I do know about gas turbines. The basic idea
is that you have a centrifugal compressor and a turbine connected to the same shaft. The
compressor (powered by the turbine) compresses air and sends it to the turbine. Before it gets to
the turbine it is combusted with fuel to increase its temperature and pressure. In the turbine this
gas is expanded and cooled while forcing the turbine blades to spin from the flow. The spinning
blades spin the shaft which powers the compressor and also yields much more power from the
shaft. Here we get usable work through the shaft to rotate equipment like a generator or a car's
driveshaft, etc.

There are other variations of a gas turbine where the gasses are allowed to escape the turbine
without losing too much heat and pressure. The turbine is designed to spin enough to power the
compressor, but the rest of the gases are allowed to escape at high velocity. This is the basis of a
jet engine because these escaping gases output usable work in the form of thrust to power a jet
forward.

Another variation is an older technology called a turboprop which is used to power airplanes. In
addition to the compressor and the turbine, the is a fan (propeller) on the front of the shaft which
uses some of the generated power to force atmospheric air past the plane to generate thrust.

A final variation of the gas turbine is one that can be used with any of the previously discussed
variations. It uses a technology called regenerative heating. This type of turbine has a heat
exchanger (like a radiator) that takes heat from the hot exhaust gases and transfers it to the intake
air after it has been compressed. This allows the fuel that is ignited to increase the temperature
and pressure of the gases entering the turbine even more. Higher temperatures and pressures of
gases entering the turbine make the turbine more powerful. So basically, a regenerative gas
turbine is more efficient because it makes the gases hotter and more pressurized with less fuel.
Source(s):
my education