Transcript MS Depo

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IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE 11TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA GENERAL JURISDICTION DIVISION
COUNTRYWIDE HOME LOANS SERVICING, L.P., Plaintiff, vs. et al., Defendants. _________________________________ Case No.: 09-21198CA09
DEPOSITION OF MICHELE SJOLANDER Wednesday, March 14, 2012 10:07 a.m.
4500 Park Granada Calabasas, California
REPORTED BY: Julee Sokol CSR No. 11319
www.uslegalsupport.com 1-888-311-4240
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APPEARANCES:
For Plaintiff Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, L.P.: AKERMAN SENTERFITT BY: JEFFREY A. TRINZ, ESQ. One Southeast Third Avenue Twenty-fifth Floor Miami, Florida 33131 Telephone: (305) 375-5600 SHAPIRO & FISHMAN, LLP BY: TRAVIS HARVEY, ESQ. 2424 North Federal Highway Suite 360 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Telephone: (561) 998-6849 (Appearing telephonically) For Defendant et al.:
ICE LEGAL, P.A. BY: AMANDA LUNDERGAN, ESQ. 1015 North State Road 7 Suite D Royal Palm Beach, Florida 33411 Telephone: (561) 729-0530 (Appearing telephonically)
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INDEX TO EXAMINATION WITNESS: MICHELE SJOLANDER
EXAMINATION By Ms. Lundergan
PAGE 5
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INDEX TO EXHIBITS WITNESS: MICHELE SJOLANDER
Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, L.P. vs. et al.
Wednesday, March 14, 2012 Julee Sokol, CSR No. 11319
MARKED Exhibit 1 Exhibit 2 Exhibit 3
IDENTIFICATION Amended Complaint to Foreclose Mortgage Complaint to Foreclose Mortgage and to Enforce Lost Loan Documents Plaintiff's Response to Defendant's Request for Production Plaintiff Notice of Service of Answers to Interrogatories
PAGE 58 90 96 111
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Exhibit 4
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CALABASAS, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, MARCH 14, 2012; 10:07 A.M.
MICHELE SJOLANDER, having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Q Ms. Sjolander, can you please state your full name
for the record? A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Michele Sjolander. Is it okay if I call you "Michele"? Yes. Okay. Michele, who do you work for?
Currently, I work for Bank of America. And what is your title? Senior Vice President. And what's the address where you work? 4500 Park Granada, Calabasas, California. Thank you. Before we get into other questions, I
just want to go over some preliminary matters, and I know that you've sat for other depositions before; so you may have heard these previously, but just so everyone is on the same page, if you could wait until I finish asking my question so that the
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court reporter can get it all typed out before you start to answer, and I'll also try to make sure I wait until you've finished answering before I move on to the next answer. That
way the court reporter doesn't have to try to listen to two people at the same time. If you can please keep your answers to verbal answers. I can't see you; so I don't know if you are shaking
your head "Yes" or "No," and if you say "Uh-huh," it doesn't come across readable on the transcript. So try to keep your
answers to verbal answers and no gestures and things like that. If you don't understand something I'm asking, please tell me you don't understand, and I'll try to rephrase it or re-word it so that I can help you understand the question. Your attorney may have some objections, but unless he instructs you not to answer, please answer the question. In addition, because this is a telephonic deposition, I would ask that you refrain from any text messaging, emails, things of that nature, while the deposition is ongoing. And I also want to clarify for the record that there is only going to be one attorney speaking. Is that correct, Travis? speaking at the deposition. MR. HARVEY: No. You are not going to be
You are just here to observe.
I'm not making that stipulation.
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MS. LUNDERGAN:
But you both are going to be conducting
because my understanding is only one attorney will be conducting the deposition and one attorney will be defending it. Not multiple attorneys defending the same deposition. MR. TRINZ: No. Let me be clear. I'm defending -- this I'm defending. The
is Jeff Trinz in -- with -- with Michele.
only thing I would say is that Travis may have -- has more knowledge of the case, the history of the case, and so forth. So if a question comes up, he may be able to assist with that. comes up. MS. LUNDERGAN: talking to you. objecting-MR. TRINZ: No. -- or instructing the witness -No. -- or anything of that nature. He is Right. I have no problem with him It's not defending the depo but just if something
I just want to make sure he's not going to be
MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: No.
MS. LUNDERGAN:
here as counsel, things of that nature? MR. TRINZ: MR. HARVEY: Yes. Yes. I would agree with that.
MS. LUNDERGAN: Q
Okay.
Michele, do you understand everything that I've said
as far as the instructions? A Yes.
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Q correct? A Q A Q
Okay.
Michele, you have been deposed before;
Yes. And how many times has that been now? Six. Six times. And, recently, you were deposed in the
case of Clinton Kirby; is that correct? A Q given? A Q Yes. Okay. And at that deposition you talked about what You stated that you Yes. Was that your most recent deposition that you've
companies you have been an officer for.
had been an officer of Countrywide Home Loans, Inc. Is that correct? A Q Yes. And you also were an officer at one point of
Countrywide Bank, FSB. Is that correct? A Q Yes. And now you, currently, stated that you are an
officer of Bank of America. Correct? A Q Yes. Are these -- are those the only three corporations
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you've been an officer of? A Q A ventures. Q A Q Can you tell me who those are? I cannot recall all of them. Okay. Well, let's -- let's go through your No. Who else have you been an officer of? Many different entities of Countrywide and the joint
employment history then. After you graduated from college, who did you work for first? A Q you. A Q A Q A Q A Q Warehouser Mortgage Company. Okay. And then where did you work after that? Warehouser Mortgage Company. I'm sorry. Can you state that again? I can't hear
Countrywide Home Loans. Countrywide Home Loans, Inc.? Countrywide. Yes.
And then where did you work? Bank of America. I'm sorry. I don't know if it's your phone or where Can we try
it's positioned, but I can't hear your responses. to adjust that? A Can I turn this?
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MR. TRINZ:
Yeah.
We'll turn it up a little bit. I'll try to turn my
MS. LUNDERGAN: volume up too.
It's very faint.
THE COURT REPORTER:
Off the record.
(Off the record from 10:12 a.m. to 10:13 a.m.) MS. LUNDERGAN: Can you read back the last question?
(Whereupon the record was read as follows: "Question: And then where
did you work? "Answer: Q Bank of America.") Can you go ahead and answer that
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
question, please? A question. (Whereupon the record was read as follows: "Question: And then where Can you repeat it? I thought I answered that
did you work? "Answer: THE WITNESS: Q Bank of America.") Bank of America was my answer. Okay. So from your -- you had Then you
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
that original mortgage company you worked for. worked for Countrywide.
And then you work for Bank of
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America. Going back to the question of what have been your capacities as an officer, can you now state any other companies that you've been an officer of other than Countrywide Home Loans, Inc., Countrywide Bank, FSB, and Bank of America? A I was on officer for different entities of
Countrywide. Q And can you tell me those different entities that
you were an officer of? A Q There were many and I cannot recall all of them. Is there anything that would help refresh your
recollection of that? A I would have to go back through years of history
of -- of what I was an authorized signer for. Q Okay. If you were an authorized signer, are you
considering yourself then an officer of that company? A Q Yes. Okay. Were you at any time an officer of
Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, L.P.? A sign. I had -- I had the authority -- the authority to
As an officer. Q Okay. But were you actually a named officer of the
corporation? A I was a named officer of Countrywide, yes.
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And what was your title as an officer of Countrywide
Home Loans Servicing, L.P.? A I had several titles. I was an EVP. Then I went to
a Senior Vice President and a managing director. Q Okay. And Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, L.P.,
doesn't exist anymore; is that correct? A Q Its successor is Bank of America, L.P. But the actual Countrywide Home Loan Servicing,
L.P., doesn't exist? A Q Correct. Okay. So when I noticed this deposition of you as
an officer of Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, L.P., you can't technically be an officer since that company doesn't exist anymore; correct? MR. TRINZ: I'm going to object as a legal conclusion
you are asking the witness. Q question? A Q I don't understand the question. Well, you just previously stated that Countrywide BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Can you, please, answer the
Home Loan Servicing, L.P., doesn't exist; correct? A It was -- I stated that it does not exist. Its
successor is/was Bank of America, L.P., Servicing L.P. Q A Correct. Yes.
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And we noticed your deposition today as an officer
of Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P.; correct? A Q Yes. Okay. But if that corporation doesn't exist
anymore, you can't technically be an officer of a corporation that doesn't exist? A Q I am an officer of its successor. Okay. But you are not currently an officer of
Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P.; correct? A Q Correct. Okay. Going back to the depositions that you've
given previously, do you remember you stated there were six depositions you believe you've done? A Q cases? A Q A Q A Q A Four to -- four or five. And do you remember the names of any of those cases? Not offhand. Is there anything that would help you remember that? I have a document in my office. Can you -- can you go look at that? No. I can't. No. We're not getting it. If is there something that would refresh Yes. And how many of those were related to foreclosure
MR. TRINZ:
MS. LUNDERGAN:
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your recollection, you are not going to allow her to review that? MR. TRINZ: Q That's correct. And what is the document called?
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
Does it have a title? A Q A Q No. It's my own writing.
Just some notes that you had taken? Yes. Did you review those notes in the anticipation of
this deposition? A Q No. Can you please state, again, what your current title
is at Bank of America? A Q Senior Vice President. And what is your job responsibility as a Senior Vice
President? A Q A My current job responsibilities as of today? Yes. Today I manage the loan delivery department and
operations. Q A And what does that mean? I run the GSE eligibility loan delivery, which is a
securitization of the loans into securities for Fannie, Freddie, and Ginnie. And my operations, I have collateral oversight.
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Okay.
What about in 2009?
Was it the same job
responsibilities that you have today? A Q A Q A No. I had more.
What else did you have? I had more departments underneath me. Like what? I had a master file audit department. I had a bond department. I had a collateral deficiency. Collateral management. And --
Q A Q A
And on behalf of who did you work in 2009? Who was my boss? What company did you work for? In the beginning of 2009 I worked for Countrywide,
and I think in March I was Associate Day One, I became Bank of America. Q And what was your title when you were with
Countrywide in 2009? A Q training? A Q That's pretty broad. Training in what? Countrywide in 2009 I was a Managing Director. In your current capacity, have you received any
You just listed what you do currently today in your
capacity for Bank of America. Did you receive any training to do those jobs you do
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today? A Q I've been doing these jobs for 15 years. Okay. So when you became part of Bank of America,
you didn't receive any additional training? A No. We kept Countrywide legacy, Countrywide systems
and processes. Q Okay. How about when you were working for
Countrywide?
Did you receive any training in doing the jobs
that you outlined for me when you were working for Countrywide? A training. Q And what kind of training was that? Was it, you As I took on new responsibilities, I received
know, written training that you read, or was it an in-class type of training? A Q A Director. I had training with the associates on systems. I had class training regarding conduct and H.R. issues. I would receive monthly classes that you would take on the web. Q And what were those regarding? A variety. Like can you tell me about those? I had one-on-one training with the previous Managing
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A Q
Mostly H.R.
Reg "W."
Variety of different classes.
Was any of the training that you received in the
form of written policies or handbooks? A Q A Of reading handbooks or -Yeah. Yes. Something that you could read. There was always -- there is handbooks
included in the on -- on-the-web training. Q Okay. And is that still true today there are
handbooks for the job positions that you do? A Are you asking for typical responsibilities or That's
handbooks regarding Reg "W," and H.R.-related issues? what I'm saying yes to. Q A Q Okay. Are there --
There are policies --- handbooks that deal with what you do today,
whether it's -A Q There are policies --- you listed loan delivery operations, different
things that you do. Are there any handbooks today regarding those functions that you do today on a day-to-day basis? A There are policies and procedures that have been
created regarding the job duties of my departments. Q A And where are those kept? Mostly are kept within or secondary marketing
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databases on-line. Q Okay. And are they all stored in the same location
or are they in different locations depending on what the topic is? A They're all stored in -- currently, they're all
stored in our SharePoint site. Q A Q A Q A Have those policies changed from 2009 to now? Yes. How have they changed? As jobs changed, the policies changed. Can you give me an example? Well, an example is I don't have master file audit
anymore; so it is no longer within my job -- in my -- my SharePoint site. Q But has the actual policy changed or you just no
longer do that? A Oh, I can't comment on the policy. Now that policy
falls in a different area. Q A Q How about the jobs -But there are policies --- that you still do? Have any of the policies of
the jobs that you still do changed from 2009 to now? A Of my associates that report to me, yes, their jobs
have changed as well. And as their jobs change or systems change or there
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is accounting changes, the policies are updated accordingly. Q Okay. And do they store the old policies in a
system as well as the new policies? A Q A Q A Q I can't answer that. I don't -- I don't know.
Do you know who would know that? Our risk. I'm sorry. Can you say that again?
Our risk department. The risk department. And who is in charge of the risk department?
A Q
For secondary marketing Cindy Tutor. Okay. Have you reviewed any of the policies in
anticipation of the deposition today? A Q A Q correct? A Q Yes. Do you have offices as well in the Texas and Tampa No. How many people do you have in your department? As of today, I have approximately 20 to 30 people. And you work out of the California location; is that
locations? A Q A Q No. Where do you work when you go to those locations? In the -- in an assigned area. Have you ever had signing authority on behalf of
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MERS? A Q A Q A Q A No. Are you familiar with the MERS system? No. I know what MERS is.
Did you ever -I've never been on system. -- know what MERS is? I know what MERS is. When you just said the word
"system," I thought it meant -- I took it as you going on the system and applying in MERS. Q A Q MERS? A Q A No. Do you? Access in the sense of -- let me just -- access in Okay. No.
But you are familiar with MERS itself? Yes.
I know what MERS is. Okay.
Does anyone in your department have access to
the sense of going in and doing MERS, signing a loan into MERS? Q Access -- let's break it up into two parts. Is anyone in your department an officer of MERS? A Q No. Do you know anyone in Bank of America who is an
officer of MERS? A I would think so. Yes.
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Q A Q A Q
Okay.
Can you tell me who those people would be?
I -- In the MERS department? Okay. So Bank of America has a MERS department? Yes.
In servicing. Okay.
And how many people are in that MERS
department? A Q It's completely out of the scope of my position. You have no knowledge of who is in the MERS
department? A I know people that are in it. I don't know how many
people are in that department, no. Q Okay. Can you give me some names of the people who
are in it? A Q A Q I can say "Christy Cafferty." Okay. Is that the only name you know?
That's my contact. Okay. Do you know anybody else who works with
Christy in the MERS department? A Q Not personally. Okay. Do you ever have any interaction with the You said that was your contact. What would
MERS department? you use her for? A
If I had questions regarding a MERS Milestone or if
a loan was registered in MERS. Q Okay. And then Christy would be the one that would
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be able to access that information? A I would contact her. I'm not sure who accesses it.
She gets back to me with my questions. Q Okay. So you are familiar then with the MERS
documents such as the Milestones and the Min audit; correct? A I know what a MERS Milestone is. Yes. No.
I do not know what a Min audit is.
I look at documentation and see if the note was printed on Mom docs. Q docs? THE COURT REPORTER: hear it? MR. TRINZ: Can you repeat that? The court reporter Could she repeat that? I couldn't I'm more on that end. It was printed on Mom
Tell me that just again.
didn't pick up your last question. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: I guess my question is -- I You said "Mom docs"?
wasn't clear what she said. A Q A Yes. Okay. M-o-m Docs.
And what is that?
The documents are on -- are on MERS documentation
and they call them "Mom docs." Q A Q A So it's the way you would access the MERS documents? No. Okay. So what do you use Mom docs for?
Those are the docs, documents, that the borrower has
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in connection with the MERS. instrument. docs. Q A Q
They're the note, the security
And they are on what we call Mom docs, M-o-m
Is that separate from your imaging system? Yes. Okay. How often in your -- your current position do
you have to access MERS information as far as asking Christy for information? A Q A Q Only on -- when I have cases that come up. Weekly? Monthly. Monthly. Do you have -- other than the companies Monthly?
that you identified, do you have signing authority on behalf of anybody else? A I don't understand what you are saying. It's
open-ended. Q Okay. Did you have -- are you -- do you currently
have signing authority on behalf of Bank of America? A Q A Q A Q A Yes. How about Countrywide Home Loans, Inc.? Yes. Countrywide Bank, FSB? Yes. How about Premium Capital Funding? No.
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Any other companies that I haven't listed that you
have signing authority for? A As I previously said, I have signing authority for
several entities of Countrywide or I should say had. Countrywide is no longer in business as you know. Q Okay. How about BAC Home Loans? Do you have
signing authority for them? A Q A Q A Q A Q BAC Home Loans? Yes. The servicing L.P., yes. Yes. Yes. Was that a "Yes"? Yes. Okay. And when we talk about "signing authority," You do have signing authority for them?
what types of documents can you sign on behalf of the entities that you've stated that you have signing authority for? A I have signing authority for my endorsement on the
collateral. And I have signing authority for creation of LNA's, if there is a loss note affidavit. Q A Okay. Anything else?
Just collateral-related documents and execution of
GSE agreements. Q What are those that you just said? The GSE?
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A Ginnie.
GSE agreements.
So anything with Fannie, Freddie,
For example, Ginnie for commitment authority. Fannie to approve a contract to transmit. sale. Q So you have authority on behalf of Freddie Mac to Freddie, a bill of
execute certain documents? A Not on behalf of Freddie Mac. I have signing
authority on behalf of Bank of America to execute documents pertaining to those -- to those agreements. Q A Q Okay. And you said the LNA. What was that?
That is a loss note affidavit. Okay. And how often do you execute loss note
affidavits? A Q A Q A Q A Never. You never have executed a loss note affidavit? No. I have not.
But you know you have the authority to do that? Yes. Is that in one of your handbooks or policies? It is in -- that I have -- that I have authority or
the authority spelled out? Q A The authority spelled out. Yes. My -- we do have procedures pertaining to We
creation of loss note affidavits when we were doing them.
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no longer -- my department no longer create or execute a loss note affidavit. Q A Q What department does do the loss note affidavits? That would be post-closing. Okay. And do you know anyone who works in that
department? A Q A Q Yes. I do.
Was there an answer? Yes. I do.
I don't know if it -- is cutting out -- is it
cutting out for you guys when I speak? MR. TRINZ: We can hear you clearly. Okay. For whatever reason I'm still
MS. LUNDERGAN:
having a hard time hearing her. MR. TRINZ: Is there more volume? If we turn on the volume, I think we're
THE WITNESS:
going to get that back. MR. TRINZ: Oh. I'm talking the same. I'm not changing my
THE WITNESS: tone.
I'm talking the same. MR. TRINZ: We'll move the phone a little closer. So we
don't want it to fall off the table. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: What I need you to do for me,
Michele, is can you walk me through how a typical loan moves through your systems?
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What I'm referencing is, if it was not an original lender, if this was not an original Bank of America loan and it was not an original Countrywide loan, but you received it from a third party, how does that loan make it into your system in your physical possession? it comes? MR. TRINZ: Q Object to the form. I can't hear. You might have Where is the first place
BY MS. LUNDERGAN: It cut out.
said something. MR. TRINZ: question.
I said I object to the form of your
MS. LUNDERGAN:
Okay.
We're going to have to figure out
another method because I only heard just "I," and it's cutting out of the rest it. the system or -THE COURT REPORTER: Off the record. I don't know if we can try to re-start
(Off the record from 10:35 a.m. to 10:41 a.m.) Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Going back to what we had talked
about, Michele, basically, I just wanted you to walk me through the process of how these loans are received, either from, you know, the original lender in the collateral files. Can you walk me through, you know, how they're received, where they go, and how they get processed through your system?
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MR. TRINZ: Q please?
I'm going to object to the form. Michele, can you answer that,
BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Are you guys there? Yes.
MR. TRINZ:
We're here. Can you --
I think you need to
clarify the question. Q question? A I don't.
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
Michele, did you understand my
You are -- you need to clarify.
Are
you -- you want me to walk -- and let me see if I'm understanding it correctly. You want me to walk you through how the collateral is moved through -- through the company? what you are asking? Q A Q A That's correct. The collateral documentation? Yes. Yes. That's correct. So the collateral -- in this case, this is a The collateral is received into Is that -- is that
correspondent lending loan.
the correspondent lending vault in Tampa, Florida, and it is logged in and imaged. At that time it goes into the vault in -- for the correspondent lending vault until the funding occurs on the loan. At the time of the funding, the collateral is moved from the correspondent lending vault into our Tampa facility
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vault. And, actually, that's -- I'm speaking as of today. If you want as of this loan, I'm -- in 2009? Q A Q A Q A Let's talk about today and then we'll talk about -Okay. -- 2009. So today -First, we'll talk about today. Yes. It's two different processes.
But today, so the collateral then is moved from the correspondent lending vault in Tampa to our Tampa vault, which is "Rincon Trust." It is logged in there.
At that time an endorsement stamp is placed on the note. And it goes -- if it is pooled to a Fannie, Freddie, or Ginnie security, it will then go for review and the collateral will be reviewed against the transmission of the data for Fannie, Freddie, or Ginnie. At that time the collateral is looked at to make sure it is true and original and placed -- after it passes, if it's reviewed without a deficiency, it is then placed into the vault. Q A And it remains there -The vault in Tampa? -- until -Yes.
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And it will remain there until a release is filed on the -- on the loan. Q to who? A It would depend. If it's -- if it's in a Okay. When you say, "a release is filed," a release
foreclosure, a release will be requested by a foreclosure attorney. If it is paid off, a release will be requested by the payoff department. Q A Q A Q Do you know if a release was requested in this case? Yes. It was.
Have you reviewed that document? Yes. I have.
Did you review it in anticipation of today's
deposition? A Q A Yes. I did.
And do you have access to that today? I look -- I have access to the collateral -Yes.
tracking of the collateral. Q Okay.
Then I would request that you -- can you guys
go ahead and email me that document, please? MR. TRINZ: No. Well, I'm entitled to anything she
MS. LUNDERGAN:
reviews in anticipation of the deposition. MR. TRINZ: I don't think that's the case.
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MS. LUNDERGAN:
Well, she stated that's where she's
getting her knowledge from, which she's testifying to, which we're entitled to. MR. TRINZ: Well, I disagree and we're not producing it. Okay. So your position is that any
MS. LUNDERGAN:
documents that she's basing her knowledge on today that she reviewed to answer the questions, you are not willing to produce? MR. TRINZ: That's correct. All right.
MS. LUNDERGAN: Q A Q A Q A year.
So you stated there was a release in this case? The system shows a release. Yes.
And do you know the date of that release? I think it was -- it was March 6th. Of two thousand and -I think it was -- I can't -- I can't tell you the
I just looked at the date. Q Okay. Okay. So the basic outlines you've given me
is what is currently happening today; correct? A Q A Yes. Okay. Now let's talk about how it was in 2009. The loan would be
In 2009, it was very similar.
logged into our collateral area in CLD. And at the time of funding, the collateral then would go to our Simi Valley vault and be logged in.
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So it was -- the only difference is -- is the vault location. Q A In 2009 we did not have the Tampa facility. Okay. In 2009 -Not 2009. I'm sorry.
I mean -- I'm sorry.
In 2007 when this loan funded. Q
Your position, from reviewing the documents, that
you acquired this loan document in 2007? A Yes. Well, 2008. But it funded in December of '07
and we acquired it in 2008, in January. Q All right. And what did you look at to ascertain
that you acquired it in 2008? A I looked at the system and the collateral, when the
collateral was logged into our facility, the collateral processing. Q When you say, "our facility," which entity are you
talking about? A As I said, Countrywide and Bank of America was its So when I say "our" in this case, I mean It's the same location.
successor.
Countrywide and Bank of America. Q A Q
But it wasn't Bank of America in 2008; correct? Correct. Okay. So which entity would it have been that
received this collateral in 2008? A Q In 2008 it would have been Countrywide Bank. FSB?
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I would assume so.
I don't have a timeline of when
the entities changed names. Q A Q And when did Countrywide cease to exist? Can you repeat that? When did Countrywide cease to exist? Objection. Calls for a legal conclusion. Can you, please, answer that? I
MR. TRINZ: Q A
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
Legal Day One, I recall, was January of 2009. I'm sorry.
mean July of 2009. Q
So in July of 2009 was when Countrywide merged with
Bank of America? A That is -Objection --- what we call Legal Day One.
MR. TRINZ:
THE WITNESS: MR. TRINZ:
-- to the form.
And I object to the form. Q the date? A Q That is what we call Legal Day One. All right. And when you say, "we call Legal Day BY MS. LUNDERGAN: And how do you know that that's
One," where did you get that from? A Q A Q That's what Bank of America -Was it -Written. It is written down?
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A Q
It was in all of our announcements. Okay. So it was something that they announced that
that was going to be the day that you merged? A You are using -Objection as to the form. You are using words -- I did not say the That is the day that
MR. TRINZ:
THE WITNESS: word "merge."
I said "Legal Day One."
we call -- that they called "Legal Day One." You would have to talk to the legal aspect of whether it was called a merge or -- I'm just testifying to the fact that that was Legal Day One. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. On Legal Day One, is that
the date that you stopped being an employee of Countrywide and started being an employee of Bank of America? A Q A Q A of 2009. No. Okay. When did that change occur?
On Associate Day One. And when was Associate Day One? I do not know the exact date. It was between April I do not know. So --
I -- I do not have the exact date.
It's just recollection from three years ago. Q
So you stated that under both systems, the 2009
system and the current system, that the endorsements are placed on -- in the -THE COURT REPORTER: I'm having a hard time hearing her.
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THE WITNESS: hearing you. MR. TRINZ:
Yeah.
We're now having a hard time
Right. Sorry.
MS. LUNDERGAN:
I'm asking the court reporter, is there anything else we can do with this system because it's becoming really difficult. MR. TRINZ: little bit. will help. MS. LUNDERGAN: now. Okay. I don't even have speaker phone It's better now. We just turned it up a I think that
And just speak up a little bit.
I'm just on the regular phone. MR. TRINZ: Okay. It's better now.
MS. LUNDERGAN: Q
Okay.
Going back to the question, you stated both in your
description of the 2009 and your description of the current process, that you endorse the documents when they came in along with the imaging system at that time. Is that correct? A I did not say I endorsed. I said the collateral
documents are endorsed upon arrival. Q And did you ever work in that department that
endorsed the collateral? A Q I did not never worked for -- no. Did you ever supervise the department that endorsed
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the collateral? A Q No. Okay. So you don't have any first-hand knowledge
then of the endorsing of the promissory notes, do you? A I have oversight to the -- I have collateral
oversight in which I do ensure that the processes of the collateral -- I walk through and review them. Q A Okay. Can you explain to me what that means?
It means I -- the department does not directly
report to me, but I have insight to the processes and procedures that that department does. Q And where does your knowledge of the process and
procedure come from? A Q that mean? A facility. Q Okay. And were you doing audits of the facilities I conduct a -- every six months an audit of the Mostly from doing audits. Okay. And when you say, "doing audits," what does
back in 2008? A Q today? A Q Yes. And what is it you are looking for when you are Yes. And are you still doing audits of the facilities
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doing audits of the facilities? A I ensure that the procedures that the GSE's require
are in place. Q A Q And what procedures would those be? Those will be the procedures on All Regs. Okay. And what, specifically, are you looking for
when it comes to endorsing a promissory note? A Q blank? A blank -Q A Okay. -- or the -- let me rephrase that. That the endorsement chain is correct. Q Okay. And when you are looking to see if the The final endorsement is an open endorsement in That the endorsement is placed in blank. Are you looking for all endorsements to be placed in
endorsement chain is correct, what are you comparing that to to make sure that it's correct? A Q A Q I am looking at the note. Are you looking at the original promissory note -Yes. -- or are you looking at the copy of the original
promissory note? A time. I am looking at the original promissory note at that
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Okay.
And what on the original promissory note are
you looking at to make sure that the chain of endorsements is correct? A Q The endorsement chain. Okay. But when you are looking at the endorsement What are you looking at
chain, how do you know it's correct?
to make sure that that endorsement chain is correct in the way it's supposed to be? A I ensure that the endorsement is -- follows the path
of our funding. Q Okay. And so where do you compare it to find that Is there something you are looking at to
out, the funding?
make sure it matches up and make sure it follows what it is supposed to follow? A Another document. Sometimes I will be looking on
the system to ensure that it follows the -- the -- the -- the chain on the system. In most cases I'm looking at the actual stamps to ensure that what is -- what each entity is closed and opened correctly. Q Okay. And when you said you look at the system,
what is it on the system that you would be looking at? A numbers. Q Is that through your own system or are you talking I'll look at the -- on the movement of investor
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about the MERS system? A Q A That is through my own system. What -I am not looking at the assignment chain if that's
what you are asking. Q No. That wasn't what I was asking.
What is the system called that you are looking at? A Q in 2008? A Q A Q A Yes. And are you still using it today? Yes. And who inputs that information into that system? That -- the system goes through our investor It's a web secondary marketing website. And is that the same system that you were using back
accounting. Q And they would be the ones who would put in the
chain of ownership into that system? A Well -Objection as to form. -- it -Was that the department, the one
MR. TRINZ:
THE WITNESS: Q
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
that puts in -A I think you are -- you are -- I'm not talking about I'm -- I'm looking at the
the chain of ownership here.
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endorsement chain of the collateral versus how it -- ensuring that it is correct. That the chain is correct going through.
I look at the system to ensure that -- to look at investor changes and how the loan -- loan was sold to. how the investor change went through. I do not want to confuse the two. Q So you look at the endorsements to make sure each And
endorsement follows in a proper chain so that it goes from A to B, B to C, C to D; correct? A Q Yes. That is correct.
And then when you look on the actual system, you are
looking at the actual documentation that -- that shows the change in actual ownership of the loan; correct? A I'm looking at -- no. I'm looking at the investor change. how the investor is positioned. Q A So you are just looking -I'm just looking at how the investor numbers have It's a secondary marketing system. I'm The investor --
moved through.
looking at who was our first investor and how it moved through -- through the different investor channels. the ultimate investor -- Fannie, Freddie, Ginnie. Q Shouldn't that chain that's on-line match the chain Who was
of endorsements on the note? A No. Because if it's an open endorsement, it
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wouldn't say Ginnie as your final. open -- an endorsement in blank. Q Okay.
It would just be an
Besides the last person in the chain,
shouldn't the endorsements line up with the previous parties? A lined up. The -- the endorsement on the document should be The endorse -- if you are looking at my system, it No.
doesn't -- it does not read that way. Q Okay.
So the endorsements don't always follow the
information that's on your system? A No. You're -- you're -- that is not correct. Two
different sources. Q When you say, "two," I guess I'm not understanding
what it is you are saying. Can you explain to me the two different sources? A One is -- one is an investor. The -- the investor
number and how it moves through our systems. And one is an endorsement chain, which is the chain of title, of the endorsement on the note. things -Q A But you do -I look at our system for different reasons. I was not finished. Q Okay. That's fine. I know But do I'm sorry. Two different
Do you ever check then the chain of title? you are saying your system shows something different.
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you ever check to see when you do your audits that the endorsements properly follow the chain of title? MR. TRINZ: Objection as to form. Title to what?
THE WITNESS: an assignment.
I'm -- I'm -- this is an endorsement, not
So I'm speaking directly to the endorsement of
the note, not to the assignment chain. And this is -- I'm looking at are the endorsements open and closed correctly on the note; is the chain correct. Q A Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: And --- and I think what you are getting at is to make Okay. What I'm asking --
sure that it properly follows, like I said, from A to B, B to C, C to D -A Q Correct. -- instead of going A to D, C to B. You are saying you properly -- you look to see that the chain follows that natural progression from one party to the next -A Q A Q The correct possession. -- correct? Yes. Okay. What I am asking is do you ever check that
that chain -- that A to B, B to C -- is really what occurred? Is that part of your auditing to check and see -A But --
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Q A occurred.
-- that --- that is what occurred. There is no what really It's the
The note is what the possession is. So that is what occurred.
collateral.
And I guess that's why I'm being confused here -Q A You --- because what occurred on the note is the
possession of the collateral, and that's what I am looking at. Q A Okay. How do you know that?
Because it is -- the note is the promise to pay.
It's your document -- your collateral. Q that? But you don't ever check any -- you don't ever check
You just assume -- what I'm trying to understand -A Q A I don't know what you want me to check. -- if the endorsements are there -I don't know what you want me to check, I guess. That is your
Because the note is your promise to pay. collateral.
That is your -- that is your underlining (sic)
document of what the borrower has to pay. So I am checking to ensure that the endorsement chain is followed correctly, A to B to C to D as you said previously. Q Okay. But you don't ever do any other -- you don't You look at it to see that it's A to B,
check anything else? B to C, C to D?
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A Q
I ensure that it's correct. Okay.
Yes.
Who decides -- let's go back then.
Are you -- are you still endorsing promissory notes as far as is it your name still being -A Q No. -- executed on endorsements? No? A Q A Q A No. When did that stop? March -- April -- March or April of last year. And why did it stop? Two -- two reasons. I had a heart attack and I was
out on leave and we needed to replace my signatures. And the second reason was we decided to change bank -- we went to Bank of America's processes after that. Q A imaging. Q Okay. And what is Bank of America's process?
That the collateral is endorsed upon receipt of into So prior to image -How is that different than the process that you
already had? A The collateral would come in, be imaged, and then go
to the vault and have the endorsement placed. Now the collateral comes in as the endorsement is placed and the collateral is imaged. Q Okay. So in the old system it would have endorsed
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after it went to the vault? A that? In the old system it would have -- can you repeat
Sorry. Q You stated that Bank of America's system now is for
the document to be endorsed as soon as it comes into the imaging; correct? A As soon as it is logged in -- yes -- to collateral Yes. Under the previous system, it would not have
processing. Q
Okay.
been endorsed until it went through imaging and went to the vault; correct? A Q Yes. Okay. Why is there a change from the old system to
the new system? A Q attack? A Q I was out. Okay. Yes. I was not here at that time. Was that when you were out because of your heart
Have you ever personally executed any
endorsements? A note? Q A Q Yes. No. Have you ever assigned any endorsements personally? My -- with my -- my personally placed a stamp on a
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A Q A
A wet signature on an endorsement? You actually physically signed an endorsement. Are you asking a wet signature on an endorsement on
a piece of collateral? Q I'm saying have you ever physically signed an
endorsement on an original note? MR. TRINZ: Object to the form. My stamp has been placed on collateral on
THE WITNESS: a note. Q A Q A Q A
BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay.
Okay.
That's not what I asked.
What I'm asking is have you ever physically -That's what I was trying to --- signed for a note? My wet signature has never been placed on an That is not common practice.
original note. Q
Now, you stated that the endorsements are stamps on
the collateral; is that correct? A Q A Q sorry. Are they ever placed on there in any other method other than stamping? That is correct. Has that always been the policy since 2008? Yes. And it is still policy.
Are they ever stamped in any other method or -- I'm
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A Q
No. Are any endorsements ever what you called wet ink
signature where someone actually signs the endorsement? A Q It is -- it is not -- not -- none of mine have been. Okay. How about anyone else's? Do you have any
knowledge if anyone else's signatures are -MR. TRINZ: Q stamping? MR. TRINZ: Objection. Outside of her knowledge. Objection. -- physically placed on versus
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
THE WITNESS: Q
Outside the scope of my business. Okay. Do you have any knowledge
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
then of that? A Q No. Okay. How long has -- you are no longer executing
endorsements, but when did you begin executing endorsements or when did they begin using a stamped signature to execute your endorsement? A Q 2005. And how did that arise? Was it something that they
asked you to do or was it something that became part of your job position? A Yes. My previous boss had left the company and my
stamp was replaced with his. Q Okay. And how did they create the stamps? Did you
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sign something for them to model the stamp after? A Q Yes. Okay. Did you do that one time or have you done it
several times? A Q A Many, many times. And why change the stamp? My title has changed. The entities have changed. Variety of
The old stamps got old. reasons. Q
Were peeling back.
And do you know how many stamps were issued with
your name on them? A Q 100? A Q A More than -- more than 10. Less than 50? I don't -- through the whole years, I can't even Not the exact number. Could you estimate? But many. More than
Is it more than 10?
give that answer. Q Okay. And what happens to the stamps? What happens
to the old stamps when you execute new stamps? A Q A I collect them and burn them. Okay. Yes. You physically collect them? Well, I don't physically go -- they -- they --
they give them -- the bank gives them back to me and I destroy them.
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Okay.
Is there any written policy on who can use
your stamp? A Q There is a power of attorney. Okay. And does the power of attorney give a
specific person the ability to use your stamp or is it a group of people? A It's the -- the bank, the custodian is able to use
mine -- my stamp. Q A Q A So the power of attorney gives power to who? To the custodian -And who is the custodian? -- to endorse collateral. Who is the custodian now or at the time of Mr. Q note? Well, is there only one power of attorney or have
you executed more than one? A There has been more than one power of attorney. As
entities change, the power of attorney is -Q Well, let's talk about in 2008. Who was the power
of attorney at that time? A Q A I gave a power of attorney to Countrywide Bank. Anyone else? No. Only the custodian had power of attorney to
apply my stamp. Q Okay. So in 2008 only Countrywide could put your
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stamp on notes; is that correct? A Q A Only Countrywide Bank, yes. How about in 2009? I would have to look at the chain of when the They were The custodian, yes.
custodian changed from Countrywide Bank.
Countrywide N.A. to Countrywide Bank, NSB, to "Rincon Trust." I do not have the legal dates of when each entity changed in my head. Q Okay. But from your knowledge there have been
several powers of attorney? A Q I've executed powers of attorney, yes. Okay. And each time you execute a power of
attorney, it goes to an entity instead of individually named people? A Q Yes. Okay. Do you know the people who are using your
stamp currently? A Q Currently no one is using my stamp. I'm sorry. Did you know the people in 2008 who were
using your stamp? A Q A Do I know them personally? How about in 2009? Did I know them personally? Yes. No. Do I know the No.
group of the department? Q Okay.
The people who were executing your
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endorsements, is the power of attorney the only instructions they got as to using your endorsements? A You would have to check with the custodian on their
policies and procedures and their instructions. Q given? A I do not know what their training is or how -- or No. You have no knowledge of what instructions they were
their policies and procedure. Q Okay.
Were there any limitations on the power of
attorney as to how they could use your endorsement? A I would have to read the whole document. I don't --
I have not read it in many, many years. Q Okay. From what you remember, do you remember any
specifics about what the power of attorney said? A Q attorney? A Q I do. Okay. Are they in your personal files or are they I can't recall what the power of attorney said. Okay. And do you keep copies of all the powers of
part of your Bank of America files? A Q they be? A You would have to go back to the custodian and They are part of Bank of America files. Okay. And if I wanted to find those, where would
request for the power of attorney through the custodian.
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Okay.
So they're not physically at Bank of
America's location? A is -Q A You said -Our custodian is in -- is on the Bank of America That is Bank of America locations. Our custodian
location in Simi Valley, Tampa, Fort Worth. Q A Q But they are a separate entity; correct? They are a separate entity. Yes.
So the power of attorney is stored at the -- at
their office versus the other buildings? A The power -- I mean I -- yes. The -- the custodian
holds the power of attorney that they're using to execute my stamp. Q Okay. Is there anyone who oversees the actual
physical application of the endorsements on a day-to-day basis? A The custodian. Yes. There is a manager that
oversees that group. Q A Q Okay. And what's his name? Lori Meter.
It's her name.
And does Lori currently oversee the physical
application of the endorsements? A Does that department report to her? I do not know.
I would think so.
I can't -- you would have to talk to the
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custodian of -- the reporting structure of the custodian. Q Okay. Well, you said Lori over -- Lori was the
person who was overseeing the physical application. Is that currently her position or are you stating that was her position? A I know when my signature was applied, or my stamp, My stamp is no longer applied. I don't
it was her position.
know if that is still her position or if it is other -- if she has people reporting to her that oversee that. You would have
to speak to the custodian of how their reporting structure is. It's out of my scope. Q Is there any time that your stamp was being used
Lori Meter oversaw the application of the endorsements? A Lori Meter was my contact person for the associates
and Maria Gardener was my risk contact in the -- the compliance officer. Q And isn't it true that Lori Meter also has her
signature endorsed? A Q Yes. And did Lori Meter have a stamp as well as the stamp
that you had? A Not for the servicing L.P. but, yes, she does have
a stamp for Countrywide Bank FSB. Q And not for the servicing L.P. is that because she
didn't endorse on behalf of them or because she didn't have a
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stamp? A Because she did not endorse on behalf of the -- of She only endorsed on behalf of the custodian,
the servicer. the bank. Q
Okay.
When the collateral file comes in, how does What I'm saying is how
it get triggered for an endorsement?
does the department know it needs an endorsement? A As I said, the collateral file -- are you -- today's
practices or back in '07 or '08? Q A Let's start back in 2008. Back in 2008 at every -- every piece of collateral
that went into the custodian, into collateral, the processing area, received the correct endorsement chain and stamp. Q So every collateral that came in received the chain
of endorsements? A Well, yeah. The -- the entity chain is an
endorsement in blank. Q But on some promissory notes there are multiple
endorsements; correct? A Yes. Because it has to show the chain of the
ownership of the loan. Q Okay. And if I'm the person who is sitting down and
going to stamp these documents, how do I know which endorsements it needs? A You would have to go and ask Lori what her policies
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and procedures are and what the custodian's policies and procedures were at that time. Q Okay. So you have no knowledge as to how the people
who are stamping these documents know which stamps to use? A Well, when you say, "no knowledge," I know how But I -- I'm not
they -- how they ran through the chain.
going to speak on their polices and procedures and how their training was and how they know. custodian. Q Okay. When you say you know how they ran through You would have to talk to the
the chain, what does that mean? A Well, I can see that they would logistically look
that it was how -- what the entity -- what the closing entity needed to be and how to get there. Q A Okay. And what did they look at to determine that?
You would have to -- it's not in the scope of my
department. Q Okay. But you said you have knowledge of it. So
what is your understanding of it? A The knowledge of how they look at the chain and of
how -- I guess I would say my knowledge is my personal knowledge. Let's go there. My knowledge is my personal
knowledge -Q A But --- of how to apply an endorsement.
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I do not know how they were trained or what their policies and procedures were to apply the endorsement chain on the note. Q Okay. Well, you said your personal knowledge. From
your personal knowledge, how do they determine which endorsement to place on the note? A Well, if -- they will look at each -- each note is I guess without me having a piece of collateral in
different.
front of me and explaining it, it's very difficult. Q A Okay. Well, let's look at the one in this case.
You really have look -- so we could look at the one
in this case. So the one in this case, they're receiving it. is actually an allonge. MR. TRINZ: as an exhibit? THE WITNESS: They already have it as an exhibit. Let's go ahead and mark this as Hold on a second. Do you want to mark this This
MS. LUNDERGAN: Exhibit 1. MR. TRINZ: is it you want? MS. LUNDERGAN:
Okay.
Just the allonge or the note?
What
Are we looking at -- what I would like
you to show her, I guess, is attached to the amended complaint. MR. TRINZ: Okay. Hold on.
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MS. LUNDERGAN: with the allonge. MR. TRINZ:
We can go ahead and turn to the page
Hang on one second.
Okay.
Do you want to mark the entire amended complaint as an exhibit or just the note and allonge? MS. LUNDERGAN: complaint. MR. TRINZ: Hold on a second. Let's make sure it's not That will be the Okay. Let's mark Exhibit 1 the entire amended
mixed with something else. complaint and the exhibit.
It's clipped.
Hold on one second.
Page 1 is "Amended Complaint to Foreclosed Mortgage." The last page -- is from Stern's office -- oh -Is that correct? I want to make sure we
is the lis pendens.
have the proper exhibit. MS. LUNDERGAN: Is it the -- the amended complaint, not
the original complaint? MR. TRINZ: No. It says amended complaint. Okay.
MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ:
And the last two pages are the lis pendens
from Stern's office. MS. LUNDERGAN: That should be it then. Can you go
ahead and turn to the allonge? MR. TRINZ: Okay. It's been marked as 1, and you want
her to turn to the note and the allonge? MS. LUNDERGAN: Yes. Please.
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(Whereupon Defendants' Exhibit No. 1 was marked for Identification.) MR. TRINZ: allonge. Q Okay. All right. We have the note and the
Go ahead. BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. Looking at this allonge,
is it fair to say that when it would have arrived at your office, it would have already had the portion of allonge that is typed that says Premium Capital Funding, borrower name, property address, loan amount, closing date. Is that correct? A Q Yes. Okay. Would it have had the stamp above the line
that says Countrywide Bank, FSB? A Q No. Okay. So it would have come to you as a blank
endorsement; correct? A Q Yes. Okay. Now, if this was received by someone who was
supposed to add the endorsements, how would they know to add these three stamps to this document? A Q I can answer how I would know. Okay. And I'm just going to interpose. Object to
MR. TRINZ: the form on that.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
I cannot answer what the custodian
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did or what the custodian's policies or procedures were or training. I can say this is how I would look at this -- this
open endorsement. MR. TRINZ: I'm also objecting because you seem to
assume that all the stamps are applied at the same time, and I don't know that that's the case. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Well, okay. Lori, how -- or,
Michele, how would we know whether these -- you testified previously that the collateral would come in and the endorsements would be executed. Is that correct? A Q Yes. Okay. Would endorsements be executed all at once or
were they executed at different times? A Q All at once. Okay. So we can assume then from your knowledge of
the general procedures that these three stamps were executed all at the same time; correct? A Q Correct. Okay. So from your knowledge what would you do to
determine what stamps to place on this allonge? A From my knowledge I would know that the -- I know,
because I'm secondary marketing, that the loan is funded in Countrywide Bank, FSB's, name. So the pay to the order of
Countrywide Bank, FSB, that was the cash.
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And then it was sold from the bank to the mortgage company. So it went from Lori Meter's stamp from Countrywide
Bank, FSB, to Countrywide Loan Servicing, L.P. Then I sold it out of the mortgage company, or in this case when the stamp was applied, it was sold to Ginnie. And my stamp is applied that says Countrywide Homes, L.P., to pay to the order of blank. And that is a common practice to leave the endorsement open for all -- per All Regs and the guidance of the GSC's. Q Okay. So we're in agreement then that all three of
these stamps were executed at the same time; correct? A Q Yes. Okay. Was there actually a physical transfer of
this original note from Countrywide Bank, FSB, to Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., to Ginnie Mae? A Q In the vault, yes. Okay. So the note physically remained in a vault
during all times? A Well, the note, yes; but when it's sold to Ginnie,
it's then isolated in the vault in the Ginnie Mae portfolio area. Q Okay. But it's not actually transferred to Ginnie
Mae, to their actual headquarters? A The endorsement -- the pay to the order of, yes,
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remains blank unless something happens and Ginnie Mae wants to then close their endorsement. That's -- once the loan is sold to Ginnie, it is their -- however, they want. endorsement, they could. Q Okay. So even though all these endorsements were If they would like to close the
executed from Countrywide Bank, FSB, to Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., to what you stated was in blank to Ginnie Mae the loan actually -- the original loan actually stayed in the vault. Is that correct? MR. TRINZ: Object to the form. Are you talking about the collateral?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
The collateral would stay in the -- after the
endorsements are placed, the collateral then would go and be reviewed, and then it would be placed in the vault, and the collateral would remain in the vault. remained in the Ginnie vault. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: There was no -- there was no In this case it
physical transfer of the collateral from Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, L.P., to Countrywide Home Loans -- or from Countrywide Bank, FSB, to Countrywide Home Servicing, L.P.? What I'm saying is this loan didn't actually leave that location and go to another location -A Correct.
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-- from Countrywide Bank, FSB, to Countrywide Home
Loan Servicing, L.P.; correct? A Q Correct. Okay. You stated previously that you knew that this
loan was to be transferred to Countrywide Bank, FSB. How would you know, if this came in as a blank, a blank endorsement, who it was being transferred to? A Well, I knew at that time that Countrywide Bank,
FSB, funded -- funded our loans so that the money that was used -Q So you would -- it would just go off of -- it would So at that time you knew the
just go off of the time frame.
loans coming in were being funded by Countrywide Bank, FSB; correct? A Q Yes. Okay. Do you know who the current owner is of this
loan that we're talking about today? A Q I have not researched that. Okay. You stated that this loan was transferred to
Ginnie Mae; is that correct? A Q It was sold to Ginnie Mae. Okay. Yes.
Are you aware that the loan has been pulled
from Ginnie Mae to Bank of America? A Q Re-purchased, you mean? Yes.
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A Q
I -- I don't -- I did not look at that. Okay. Did you review any documents with regards to
this original -- this -- this loan before the deposition? A Q A Q A Yes. The allonge.
What did you review? The allonge. Go on. I reviewed the allonge. I reviewed the commitment history to see how the
loan was moved there.
So how -- when it was received into our
collateral processing area. It was reviewed without a deficiency. the Ginnie vault. It went to
And then, as I said, it was released.
I reviewed the collateral, more of the collateral, and of the loan. Q A Q Okay. No. Never? Since 2008 to now your position is they've Are endorsements ever put on by a printer?
never been put on by a printer? A Q A Q They are printed on by a person, by a stamp. They're always -- they're always done by stamps? These are stamps. Yes. It's
And they -- it's always been done that way?
always been a stamp? A To my knowledge.
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When the endorsements are created, is there any
documentation that's done simultaneously to document who put on these endorsements or when they were done? MR. TRINZ: Objection as to form. As I said, this is not in the scope of my
THE WITNESS: department. Q
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
Okay.
But is it in the scope of
your knowledge? A Q No. I don't know.
So you have no idea if the people who are using your
stamps, do they make a note of when they used it and then in what circumstance? A Q Correct. Do you know why you don't personally stamp
documents? A It was not common business practice. The common
business practice is that the note is most secure with the custodian, and that the stamp would be applied at the custodian in the vault. It would not -- the note would not be secure if it was sent to my office for me to endorse it. the security of the note. Q Okay. And it's always been done that way since It's all about
you've been involved in 2008? A Yes.
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Do you know what kind of -- you are stating you
have, you know -- because it's secure and that's why you do it that way. Have you ever come across the situation where the original note has been lost? A Q Yes. Okay. And, typically, is that something that it's
been lost because the original lender lost it or was it because, once you received it, it somehow was lost? MR. TRINZ: Objection. Calls for speculation.
Do you have a specific instance you want to reference? Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: How about in this case? Are you
aware that, when the complaint was filed, it alleged that the note was lost? A Q No. I'm not aware. Is there anything that you've reviewed that
Okay.
shows the circumstances regarding the lost note in this case? A Q No. I -- I -- this -- no. If I were to look in your system, where would
Okay.
I look to find out whether there were any problems with the note being lost? A Q I -- our servicing system. That's where you would keep track of notes that
become lost?
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A lost.
I -- I'm not talking about notes that have been And in this
I'm talking about this particular note.
case the collateral was not lost. show it ever being lost.
Up until Ginnie, I don't
And so after it hit servicing and
the years that go by, then it would have to be noted in servicing if the collateral was misplaced or lost. At the time when I looked at this loan, it did not show anything of the collateral being lost. The collateral
was reviewed without deficiency which ensures -Q A like -Q A You testified --- January -- and I'm just going off memory. But And when was that done, the review? As it was logged into the custodian. I think it was
around January 16th, I think. Q A Q Of? Of '08. Okay. So as of January 16th, 2008, based on your
memory, there was nothing in the system showing that this note was lost? A Q Correct. Okay. And if I wanted to look today to see whether
there were any notes made as to whether or not this note was lost, I would look to the servicing records? A Yes.
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How about in general?
Is that, generally, where any
documentation is made regarding a lost note? A You would have to talk to that department that
creates the lost notes. Q A Q A Okay. Who creates the lost notes?
Post-closing. Okay. And what -- where is that department located?
I think -- I think the department is located in
several different areas. Q A Okay. In what areas would those be?
To my knowledge Simi Valley and -- I do not know if
they have people in Fort Worth or not. Q Okay. And do you know anyone who works in those
departments? A Q A Q A Q A Q Yes. Okay. I do. And what would their names be?
"Allen Colluse." Okay. And where does he work out of?
To my knowledge he's located in Simi Valley. Okay. Anyone else?
That's my contact. Okay. And so that would be the department who would
make notes if it was discovered that the note was lost? A Q Yes. And would anybody else be involved in that other
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than that department? A Q The creation of the lost note affidavit? Let's start generally. If it was discovered that a
note was lost, who would be involved in documenting that and that sort of information? A answer. Q Okay. If it was discovered that a note was lost, Is it only that department that That is so open-ended that I couldn't even begin to
what department handles that? you discussed? A
If a note -- if -- if a loan is reviewed, gets to
the custodian and does not have the original note, a deficiency is placed on the system. There are several areas that can review that deficiency, including my group, that can see that there was -that there is a deficiency on the note and the collateral -the note -- well, the note has been -- a lost note affidavit might need to be corrected -- created. Q received. A Okay. So that's when the loan is originally
What if it's lost after that point? And that's exactly what I said. That is completely
out of my scope. Q Okay. You have no knowledge then if a note is lost
after that point? A No.
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Q A Q
Who would be involved? It would be "Allen Colluse's" area. Okay. That's what I'm trying to understand.
So Allen handles any notes that are lost after they come in and the review is done. You stated that when they
came in and you did the collateral review, if there were any problems at that time, it would be documented? A Right. And he -- he would then be alerted as well
at that time.
So his group, to the best of my knowledge, is
the group that is alerted if a lost note affidavit needs to be created. Whether it is at the time of review, at the time of
receipt, or, I guess, when you are -- as you are saying for services. You would have to talk to those departments. It is
completely -- post-closing is completely out of my scope. Q Okay. And out of your knowledge? You have no
knowledge of those areas? A I have no knowledge of their policies and
procedures. Q Okay. You talked about the deficiencies and the What type of deficiencies are you looking
collateral file. for? A
Am I looking for?
I just look to see -- if a loan
has a collateral deficiency, I cannot sell it. Q Okay. And what do you mean "collateral deficiency"?
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What are some examples of collateral deficiencies? A There could be -- the borrower could not have
initialed the second page of the note. There could be -Q A Okay. -- a rider. An issue with the rider.
An issue with language. If it's a "seema," you need to go collect the old note. There is a variety of reasons why a loan needs to be reviewed and to ensure that the collateral, all the pieces of collateral, are there. Q Okay. You testified in your deposition with
Mr. Kirby that you had a checklist of things that you reviewed when you did your audits. A Q A Yes. What kind of things are on that checklist? I have -- I send a list of loans out that I want to
pull out of the vault to ensure that the collateral is all in the file. I look at the endorsements. safekeeping. I look at the fire and ensure that there is no -it's up to fire code. Many of my checklist items are just found in All I look at their
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Regs and it's -- I ensure that we're following the same guidance that the GSC's give us. Q to? A Q A Q Yeah. Okay. And where is that stored? Is this a written checklist that you are referring
In my computer. Okay. To your knowledge has an audit ever been done
on the loan that's the subject of this case? A I -- I look at many loans. I can't -- to my
knowledge, no. Q
But I can't tell you that for sure.
If we wanted to find out whether an audit had been
done, is there a way to search for that? A Q I don't keep track of the loans I look at. Okay. No.
If you had audited this loan and found a
problem, would there be any documentation of that? A Q A Q Yes. There would.
And where would that be? In the collateral deficiency post-closing system. Okay. And if you had audited this file and not
found any deficiencies, then am I correct there would be no documentation of the audit? A Q That is correct. Okay. Is one of the things that you look for in the
collateral deficiency audit to find out whether there are
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powers of attorney? A It's not a collateral deficiency audit. I don't try to find It's a -- I
don't look for deficiencies. deficiencies. Q A Q Okay.
Then what would you call it? A QC audit.
Just an audit. Okay.
In your QC audit is one of the things that
you look for whether or not the powers of attorneys that are required to be there, is that one of the things you look for? A If the loan was signed for power of attorney, yes, I
will look for power of attorney in the file. Q Okay. And when we're talking about that type of a
power of attorney -- I'm just trying to picture what that would look like. Is that where we're talking about, for instance, if there were two borrowers and one borrower wouldn't make it to the closing, the other borrower would sign with their power of attorney? A Q Is that what we're talking about? I -- yes. Okay. Or a trust. Yes.
Is the powers of attorney that -- what I'm
picturing or what I'm thinking -- for instance, there is a husband and wife. sign the loan. She might execute a power of attorney giving him authority to sign the loan for her; correct? Is that kind of And the wife can't be there that day to
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what you are looking for? A
Those types of power of attorneys? I look to see
I don't think I go into that detail.
if the -- I look at the signatures of the note to see if a power of attorney was needed. Q Okay. And when you say you look at the signature of
the note, so if someone had signed as attorney in fact for somebody else, you would know that that needed a power of attorney; right? A a copy. say. You know what -Q Okay. So that's how it would trigger you to look I would look for a power of attorney in the file or Actually, a copy of the power of attorney, I should
for a power of attorney, to look at that signature? A -- can we pause here? Amanda, she needs a take a quick break.
MR. TRINZ: Yes. Real quick.
Okay.
We'll go off the record.
(Off the record from 11:37 a.m. to 11:51 a.m.) Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Michele, before we get back into
the questions, I need to ask you did you have any conversations with your attorney about this deposition while you were on break?
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Yes. I have to also -And you want to tell me what
MR. TRINZ: Q
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
those conversations were? A Q A We talked about the tenses. Okay. And what specifically was that?
How sometimes you are saying -- I'm very confused of
when it's -- when you are talking about 2007 or 2008, when the loan funded, and then today's practices. Q A Q A Q tenses? A Q Yes. Okay. And did he give you any instructions? I'm going to object. It's attorney-client Okay. -- our company has evolved. And were you -Okay. Okay. I was -So you were asking your attorney about the And as --
MR. TRINZ: privilege.
But the -- the short answer is we did not discuss anything of substance, other than I asked her how she felt because she has to take medication, which is why she left to take medication. MS. LUNDERGAN: Well, she was stating she was discussing
the tenses of my questions, and if she's discussing my
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questions on the break, I have a right to that. THE WITNESS: just -MR. TRINZ: She just told you that was her -- she So that was the extent of the It was not a specific question. It was
expressed a concern to me. conversation. MS. LUNDERGAN: those questions. Q
If you could just let her just answer
So, Ms. Sjolander, you simply stated to your
attorney you were having difficulty understanding the tenses; is that correct? A Q A Q Yes. And did he give you any advice in response to that? Just for me to further clarify it with you. Okay. And was that the substance of your
conversation during the break? A attack. Q Okay. Going back to the question, we are talking Other than us talking about computers and my heart
about how you would review a file to see if it needed a power of attorney and how, in order to determine that, you would look to see whether the signatures had been signed as power of attorney; correct? A Right. Yeah. If the -- if the -- yes. Attorney in fact.
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Okay.
So let's look then at your endorsement of
this promissory note in this case. How do I know, by looking at that endorsement, that somebody is signing as power of attorney for you? A for me. Q A Well, someone is not signing as power of attorney They are placing my signature stamp. But someone has a power of attorney to do that? Yes. They have a power of attorney to place my They are not putting my wet signature on it. And how do I know from that endorsement that
signature stamp. Q Okay.
somebody has had the power of attorney to stamp your name to a document? A Q I just told you. But if I was just -- if I didn't know you and I was
just looking at this endorsement, is there any way to tell from that endorsement that somebody is executing this as your power of attorney? A Common practice. I think if you know the mortgage
industry, you would know a stamp is placed. Q A Q Okay. If you do not -Okay. But there is nothing, other than the
document, that shows somebody is executing this as a power of attorney; correct? A No. Correct.
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Okay.
And do you know why it's done this way
instead of having that person sign their name as power of attorney for you? A This has been common practice for years. I can't
tell you why. Q
I mean it's been 20 years in the making. Okay. So it's your understanding it's always
Okay.
been done this way? A Q To my understanding, yes. Fine. Okay. In our area, yes.
Have there ever been any discussions
about doing it the typical way, which is what we discussed, where somebody signs it, as attorney in fact, for somebody else? that? A Q No. I've never discussed that with anyone. Have you ever questioned that, of why it's Has Bank of America ever had any discussions about
Okay.
done this way, instead of the way it's typically done, which is someone signing as attorney of fact for someone else? MR. TRINZ: "typically done." this. I'm objecting to the use of the word What's typically done is what's done on
So you are injecting your own opinion into this
question and I'm objecting to it. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. Michele, has there ever
been any discussion of why it's done this way versus the way we discussed earlier, which is a person signing as attorney in fact for someone else? Has there ever been any discussion of
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why it's done this way? A Q Not to my knowledge. Okay. Do you know who we would ask as to why it's Is there a department or person that you would
done this way?
know of who would have knowledge of why it's done this way? A I mean you could go an All Regs. As I said, you
know, it's a system that shows all the regulations of all the GSC's. I mean it is in there for Fannie, Freddie, and Ginnie.
It discusses the use of a stamp for an endorsement. Q Okay. And where would I find that? Is that
available to the public or is that -A Q America? A Q A Q No. It is available to the public. And can you -I think --- something that's only available to Bank of
Okay.
I think you have -Can you -I can't understand. I think
THE COURT REPORTER: THE WITNESS:
You would have to purchase it.
you -- I don't know how it's on-line. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. I would have -- I would
have to purchase access to that information? A Q I believe so. Okay. I'm not sure.
And is it your understanding that information
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would be on Fannie Mae's website? A Q I believe so. Okay. Do you know, offhand, the website where the
information can be found? A Q A Q Not offhand, the exact website. Okay. Okay.
I mean I -Where do you get your knowledge then that it's How do you know that?
available to the public? A
Well, I know All Regs is available -- I mean I know
when I -- I could look at All Regs at Warehouser, All Regs at Bank of America. I'm not -- I know that you can go in and it -request the software. Q Okay. Request access to the software.
If I were going to request that information If I wanted to get access to
from you, what would I call it?
their instructions about these stamps, what would I call it if I wanted to ask you for it? A Q loan?" A Well, you wouldn't -- you would have to ask for what All Regs. I would just say, "Can I have the All Regs for this
particular regulation you are looking for. Q A Okay. So in this case you would say, "What are the
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regulations around facsimile stamps?" Q Okay. And you call it a facsimile stamp. Is that
because it's done electronically or because -- I mean why do you call it a facsimile stamp? A Q A Q A Q A Q That's what they call it. Okay. But it's not actually put on by a fax?
Correct. Okay. But it's manually done with a stamp? It's f-a-s.
It's not a fax, like f-a-x. Okay. It's facsimile. Okay.
I -- I understand that now.
These powers of attorney that you've executed over the years, do you know if they're recorded? A I believe so. I -- I can't tell you for sure. I
believe I've seen some that have been recorded. Q them? A I can't answer that. I think you would have to go Okay. So it may be some of them but not all of
back and research. Q recorded? A Q A To my knowledge. Are they notarized? No. I don't -Okay. But your understanding is some of them may be
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Q A
None of them? I don't think so. I would have to go back and I would have to I don't --
review that.
As I said, it was many years.
go through -- through them and look at them. Q Okay.
Do you ever remember having a notary there
when you executed a power of attorney? A I've executed many things with a notary. So I
can't -- I can't tell you whether yes or no. Q Okay. When was the most recent power of attorney
that you executed? A Q I don't have that answer. Okay. Were there witnesses there when you executed
powers of attorney? A Q A me, yes. Q Okay. And who would those people be? Is it Yes. There were witnesses there; is that correct? Yes. There is usually someone in my office watching
somebody you supervised or is it always the same person? A Q It's usually someone that works for me. Okay. Yes.
And do you remember names of any of the
people who witnessed your signature? A Q A "Joan Martinez." Anyone else? -- if it was notarized, it would have been one of my "Joanne Inness." If it was --
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notaries, "Jose Sevalla." I mean we're looking at years of people that have worked for me that bring in the documents and I review them to sign them. Q Okay. Going back to your stamp, when the stamps are
created, are they sent to you to review before someone uses them? A Q Yes. Okay. They -- yes. And is there a limit on how many stamps can
be used at any given time? A Q I don't understand that question. So could -- for instance, could you execute -- you
know, could you have 20 stamps being used or can you only have five stamps being used at any given time? Is there a limit on the number of stamps that can be in use at a certain time? A Q Not to my knowledge. Okay. And you said that you would get copies -- or
you would get the stamps back to burn them. Would they just send them to you in the mail? A No. We were in the same facility; so I would --
they would walk them over to me. Q Okay. And you stated that this was done when the
entities changed and you had to get new stamps; correct? A Yes.
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Q A Q had done? A Q A
And you said that you would burn those stamps? Yes. Is that the policy or was that just something you
That's my policy. Okay.
I mean they're my stamps --
-- with my signature.
I don't want them out; so I
destroy them. Q at home? A Q I do that at home. Okay. How many stamps have you burned over the Okay. And do you do that at work or do you do that
years that you had stamps? A Q A Q A Q A Q I don't know. Is it more than 100? No. More than 50? I don't know. Is it -- is it more than 10? I mean -- more than 10. Okay. Okay. Do you know if Bank of America has any
policy on what to do with the old stamps that are done being used? A Q Not to my knowledge. Okay. So nobody instructed you that you had to burn
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them; correct? A No. I mean I know I am an officer. I know that I
need to destroy them. Q A Q Okay. Does Lori Meter destroy her stamps?
I cannot speak for her. Okay. But do you have knowledge of whether she
burns her stamps? A Q A Q I have no knowledge -Okay. -- on what she does with her stamps. Is there ever a stamp that contains two
endorsements? A Q Yes. Okay. Is that a stamp that contains both yours and
Lori's endorsement? A Q Yes. Is that -- when was that stamp first issued or when
did that first start with the double endorsement? A Q A I don't have the year. Okay. Why did you go to a double endorsement stamp? I mean I'm sure
You would have to talk to the bank.
because we were -- it was easier to apply one instead of applying two. Q Okay. Did they have to get your approval to do a
double endorsement stamp?
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A Q
Yes. Okay. And you had no problems with them using a
double endorsement stamp? A Q Nope. To your knowledge are they still using any double
endorsement stamps? A Q A Not with my name on it. Okay. How about with anyone else's name on it? It's out of the scope of
I can't comment on that.
my position. Q How about in the scope of your knowledge? Do you
have knowledge -A Q A I don't. -- if they're using -I don't. I don't. I don't. They're not my stamps.
It doesn't involve me. Q Okay.
I don't know.
Was the double endorsement stamp -- well, did
you destroy that stamp? A Q A Q A Lori. Q Okay. What does Lori Meter do now? I did. And how long ago was that? I think June of last year. Okay. Is Lori Meter still executing endorsements? I don't -- you would have to ask
I do not think so.
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A Q
She works for "Rincon Trust." So she actually works for the company that stores
all the documents in their vault? A Q A Yes. Okay. She is our custodian. Has she always worked for "Rincon"?
"Rincon" has changed names through the development But, yes.
of -- you know, through its successors. Q Okay.
And she was still with that entity even when
the name was a different name? A Q Yes. Okay. Do you know how long she's been in the
mortgage industry? A Q A Q A I don't. Are you -- are you friends with Lori Meter? Yes. Okay. How long have you known Lori Meter? I can't -- I
Since -- I don't know -- 2006, seven.
can't put a pinpoint on it. Q A Q A And what position does she hold now? She's with "Rincon Trust." And what does she do there? You -- you would have to talk to her within -- what
her scope of her job duties are. Q A Okay. As her friend, you don't know what she does?
We don't really talk about her day-to-day
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activities. Q her job? A I -- I -Q Okay. Let's go back to this particular loan. She -- she manages the -- the -- the collateral. Okay. You don't have any idea of what she does at
You stated before you don't know who the current owner of this loan is? A I stated that. And I -Yes. I saw that the loan was sold
to Ginnie. Q A Q A
And do you know -You told me there was a re-purchase. When it was sold to Ginnie? I -- I would have to look at -- refresh my memory on I don't have --
the dates. Q A Q loan? A
Okay. I know it was after January 16th of '08. And do you know if Ginnie is still the owner of this
I think you told me that there was a re-purchase.
That Ginnie re-purchased it. Q Okay. Where would you look at to determine who the
current owner of this loan is? A I would look at our investor, our commitment history
of the loan, to show ownership.
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Q system? A earlier. Q
And where is that stored?
Is that on a certain
Yeah.
That's the system I was talking about It's a website.
The second marketing system. Okay.
And who inputs information as to the current
owner in that system? A It's a system. It's generated through various I don't know who inputs it.
systems of our servicing. Q A Q Okay.
But you don't input it; correct?
Correct. And you don't oversee the department that does input
that information? A Q Correct. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about Countrywide
Home Loan Servicing, L.P. They were the servicing branch for Countrywide; is that correct? A Q A Q Yes. And they only serviced loans? The L.P., yes. Okay. They are a servicer. They just
They didn't own loans though.
serviced them; right? A Q Well, the loan was sold out of the mortgage company. But Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., didn't -They just serviced it for the owner?
they weren't the owner.
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Well, Countrywide is the entity, the overall entity,
that owned the loan. Q A Yeah. The Countrywide Home Loans, Inc.; correct?
You would -- you would really have to talk to the
attorneys on how the structure of the ownership goes between Countrywide and the L.P. and the mortgage company. Q Okay. But from your understanding Countrywide Home
Loan Servicing, L.P., is a servicing company; correct? A Q Yes. Okay. They are a servicer. Can we turn back to the original complaint in
this case and can we mark that as Exhibit 2? MR. TRINZ: Okay. The original complaint, which has
been replaced by the amended complaint, that goes -- let me look at the exhibits and make sure we're talking about the same thing. Okay. There is an FHA planned unit
There is the original. development rider. And there -MS. LUNDERGAN:
There is a notice of federal tax lien.
The last page should be a loan ledger
marked exhibit -- is that a "D"? MR. TRINZ: it. It says Countrywide Home Loans at the top. the last -- is that part of the complaint? MS. LUNDERGAN: That is part of the original complaint. Is that Yeah. It's something. I can't really read
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MR. TRINZ: Composite 2. Okay.
Okay.
All right.
So that's going to be
Hold on while the court reporter marks it.
It's marked. (Whereupon Defendants' Exhibit No. 2 was marked for Identification.) Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. Michele, can you turn
to -- they're not numbered -- page five of the complaint where it starts with Count 1? MR. TRINZ: There is only three pages. Are you there?
When you say page five of the complaint, the
complaint is only three pages. MS. LUNDERGAN: composite exhibit. MR. TRINZ: Right. So the fifth page in, which would be, I'm sorry. The entire packet. The
MS. LUNDERGAN:
technically, the first page of the allegations. MR. TRINZ: complaint. complaint. MS. LUNDERGAN: Action Summons"? MR. TRINZ: Not what I have here. It just says, The first page doesn't say, "Civil Well, the whole package starts with the It just says
There is nothing else in the packet.
"Complaint to Foreclose Mortgage." MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. For whatever reason you don't
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have the summons. MR. TRINZ:
Mine has a summons, a lis pendens. I mean I have it -- I mean -- I don't know I'm not sure. Hang on.
if I have the summons. MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ:
But what we're -I've got -- I've got the complaint.
Right.
I don't seem to have the summons handy here. MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. The first two pages -- I'll just
state for the record, the first two pages were the summons and the lis pendens. So in my packet the fifth page is Count 1 of the original complaint. MR. TRINZ: For you, that must be your --
This is the first page. -- the initial page, whatever it is
MS. LUNDERGAN: numbered. MR. TRINZ:
This is -- the first page is Count 1. In the first page, paragraph five reads,
MS. LUNDERGAN:
"The plaintiff owns and holds the note in mortgage." Is that what your copy says? MR. TRINZ: Q Yes. Ms. Sjolander, we had previously
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
discussed the -- the rule that Countrywide had in these -- in these loans. Going back to that, it's your understanding that Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., was the servicing branch for Countrywide; correct?
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A Q A Q
Yes. Okay.
And Bank of America --
-- took over that. Okay. And just for the -And Countrywide Home Loans -Just -- just -- Amanda,
MR. TRINZ: Q
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
MR. TRINZ:
Excuse me, Amanda.
just for the record, I'm going to put an objection on the record to testifying about the original complaint. There is an amended complaint. This is a nullity. It is of no
It's been superceded by the amended complaint. import or effect in the case whatsoever. questions but I'm putting my objection. MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: Q
Now, you can ask the
Your objection is duly noted.
Right. Going back to paragraph five it
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
says, "The plaintiff owns and holds the note in mortgage." Michele, do you understand what "owns and holds" means? A Q Yes. Okay. In your understanding that if -- if -- if it
is true that Countrywide Home Loans Servicing was only the servicer, they wouldn't own and hold anything; correct? A Well -Object as calls for a legal conclusion.
MR. TRINZ:
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THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
I mean there is legal entities.
And I think that's what you would need to look at is the legal entities of Countrywide, and the servicing entity, the mortgage company. So when it says, "The plaintiff," I'm sure it's talking about Countrywide as a whole who now is its successor (sic) of Bank of America. Q A Q And -Okay.
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
-- and we do hold -So we should infer then that -Let her finish the question (sic). I was not done. You
MR. TRINZ:
THE WITNESS: MR. TRINZ: interrupted her.
Let her finish the answer, Amanda. Let her finish.
THE WITNESS:
So when we talk about owns and holds the
note, we do own and we're holding the note on behalf of -- of Ginnie. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. And can you tell me where
in the complaint it says that? A Q I did not write the complaint. You can take some time if you want to read through
it and let me know where in the complaint that it says they are owning it and holding it on behalf of Ginnie. A I could not tell you that. I did not read the
complaint.
I got it ten minutes before I had to be here.
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Okay.
Well, we'll take a second.
Go ahead and read It's not
through it. that long.
It's only a couple of allegations here.
MR. TRINZ:
You know, objecting regarding -- I mean you
have an amended complaint, which is the operative complaint in the case. Why are you asking her about the original complaint
from three years ago? MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. I got your relevance objection.
I'm going to go ahead and have her answer my question. THE WITNESS: Q It does not say that. Okay. How's that?
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
So there is nothing within
the complaint that indicates this is being brought by anyone other than Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P.; correct? A Q It says the plaintiff. Is that correct? Well, Countrywide.
There is no mention of it being
brought on behalf of anyone else? A Well, Countrywide Servicing, L.P., is now a
successor to Bank of America Servicing, L.P. Q Okay. But on this complaint there is no allegations
that it's being brought on behalf of anyone else; correct? A Q Correct. Okay. You stated earlier that you were familiar
with some of the MERS records, such as the MERS Min Summary. So I would like to turn to that if you could. I actually faxed you over two copies of the MERS
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documents.
One are the documents that MERS themselves
produced, and the other are documents that David Stern Walker (sic) produced. A Q Okay. I would like to --
What I would like to talk to -Hold on. I want to make sure --
MR. TRINZ:
THE WITNESS: business. Q
MERS is completely out of the scope of my
So as I -BY MS. LUNDERGAN: That's fine. But you stated
earlier you were familiar with those types of documents. A I know what a Min document looks like. I know what
a Milestone looks like.
But I am not -- MERS is completely
out of the scope of what my department does. Q Okay. Perfect. So let's turn to the documents that
were produced by David Stern's office and I would like to mark those as -- I think we're up to -- what? MR. TRINZ: Okay. Exhibit 3? The first
Let me just add -- okay.
page is "Plaintiff's Response to Defendant's Request For Production." MS. LUNDERGAN: And then it goes Min Summary,
Milestones, Min Audits. MR. TRINZ: And then there is some other documents. Then Transfer Audits.
There is documents from Bank of America, it So you want Composite 3?
looks like, or they're different.
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MS. LUNDERGAN:
Yes, please.
(Whereupon Defendants' Exhibit No. 3 was marked for Identification.) MR. TRINZ: Okay. So let me just count how many pages
there is one -- not counting the first page, the actual documents -- yeah -- one, two, three, four, five, six, seven -- eight pages of what seem to be MERS documents. Is that right? MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: and Clara There is eight pages?
That's correct.
Then there is a letter addressed to right? I want to make sure we have
everything you are marking a composite exhibit. MS. LUNDERGAN: Three, four, five -- mine ends with --
mine is, in total -- one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten -- mine is 14 pages in total. MR. TRINZ: Well, let me count. I'm really only going to be using the So those last pages -I have 14 pages. All right. Let's
MS. LUNDERGAN:
first handful of pages. MR. TRINZ: Okay.
mark this as Composite 3. THE WITNESS: When you said you faxed it, you did not
fax it to my department; right? Q A Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. It was emailed to your attorney and also to I'm sorry. We emailed it.
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Mr. Harvey? A fax. MR. TRINZ: Q Okay. We have Exhibit 3. Okay. Can we please turn to Okay. I was just confirming it was not sent to our
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
page two, which would be titled, "Min Summary"? A Q A Q A Q A Q Yes. Okay. You've seen this type of document before?
Min Summary, no. No. You've never seen a Min Summary before? No.
I do not look at Min Summaries. Okay. What do you look at?
I've looked at the MERS Milestones before. Okay. Let's turn to page three, which is the
Milestones. A Q Okay. Okay. Looking at these MERS Milestones and the
notes that they've made, can you walk me through the chain of ownership of this loan? A Q I cannot. Okay. You don't know how to read the MERS
Milestones? A Q correct? This is not -- out of my scope of my department. Okay. You said you were familiar with them;
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Familiar, yes.
But I am not -- I do not feel I do
comfortable enough to explain them in the court setting. not understand them. Q I do not understand them enough.
What is your knowledge of the MERS Milestones as far
as what information do they contain? A I -- they contain the -- the -- the lenders. I -I'm going to object to her She is not here as a I look
at the description. MR. TRINZ:
All right.
testifying from other business records.
corporate representative of any entity, let alone MERS. THE WITNESS: MR. TRINZ: Right.
So I don't -- I -- I -She actually is here as a corporate
MS. LUNDERGAN:
officer of the plaintiff. MR. TRINZ: Actually, she's here as a fact witness. I'm actually here as a fact witness on the So I think -If you
THE WITNESS:
endorsement, not on MERS at all. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
I would disagree on that.
read the notice of deposition it reads as vice president of the plaintiff. A Q A It doesn't read as a fact witness --
I cannot testify --- on your deposition. Okay. I cannot testify to this MERS document. It
is out of the scope of my department. representative within servicing --
I think if you need a
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Okay.
Well, I'm only speaking what's in the scope So let's talk about the scope of --
of your knowledge. A Q A
I am telling you -I don't care about what's in -Okay. And I'm telling you, I do not have knowledge. I do not have -- I don't know how
I've seen this document. the data gets there. document -Q Okay.
I have no knowledge of what this
Then you can tell me -- when I ask questions Let's go
if you don't know, you can tell me you don't know.
through it a little bit at a time and you can tell me what you are familiar with, what you have knowledge of. And if you
don't know, tell me you just don't know and we'll address it at that time. Is that okay? A Q If your questions are not open-ended, that's fine. Okay. Looking at this document it appears that the
most recent entry, you see the January 7th, 2010, entry, lists the current investor as Bank of America, N.A.; is that correct? A I do not know if that's the current investor, but it
does say Bank of America, N.A. Q A Okay. Or actually it says Bank of America -- BAC Home Loan
Servicing, L.P.
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Okay.
And you must not be looking at the same thing I'm looking at the entry marked January 7th,
I'm looking at. 2010 -MR. TRINZ: Q
Hold on. -- under the Milestone
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
information paragraph -A Q As I --- it says new investor Bank of America, N.A.; is
that correct? MR. TRINZ: reading from. THE WITNESS: I do not see that. No. And if I knew how We're trying to figure out what you're
to read these documents, I would probably know what you are speaking about. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. Well, looking at the
document you see we've got four paragraphs there; right? One says description, one says date, one says initiating organization, and one says Milestone information. Does your copy say that? A Q Yes. Okay. Now, let's look at the fourth paragraph,
which says Milestone information, right underneath that paragraph, the second line, it says, new investor Bank of America, N.A. Does yours say that?
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A Q
Yes. Okay.
It does. Perfect. Now, you said you don't know if
that information is correct; right? A from. I said I do not know where this information comes I do not know what feeds
I do not know this document.
this information. incorrect. Q Okay.
I can't say whether it's correct or
If we said -- if -- for the sake of our
discussion, if we said it was correct, that that was correct information, then that would mean that the owner of this loan, as of January 7th, 2010, appears to be Bank of America, N.A.; correct? A I cannot say that. Object to the form of the question. You are -- you are -- you are saying
MR. TRINZ:
THE WITNESS: seeking this.
As I said, I am not a -- I'm not -- I'm not a I am a witness to the endorsement. Okay. You said you were familiar
witness to this document. Q
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
with Milestones; correct? A Q Yes. Okay. I've seen them. I'm familiar with it. Yes.
And in what -- in what situation have you
become familiar with Milestones? A MERS. Q That's the only thing you've ever looked at the MERS Just by looking to see if the loan was registered in
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document for? A Q A That's what I look at. Okay. If the -- if the loan is on Mom docs, is it
registered in MERS. "Christy, is it registered in MERS?" "Yes. "Okay. Here is your MERS Milestone." Thanks."
That's all I -Q A And what do you use the MERS milestone for? That is my knowledge. That is what I do. It's not
in my department.
It's not within the scope of my department. No. Here is
How they register, what they do, what this means. Q Okay. And when she says, "Here you go.
your Milestones," what do you do with those? A matches. Q All right. You confirm that it's the same loan Confirm that it is the same loan number. Same -- it
number in comparison to what? A is -Q A Okay. And where on here do you see the loan number? Same loan in comparison to the note. That it truly
Well, I look at -- well, she usually has the loan So I can't tell you. I can tell you what this
number on it.
is because it's -- it doesn't have the loan number.
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The document she sends me, she puts the loan number on it, I guess. Q Okay. That's how I know. Do you know if she adds the loan number or is
the loan number present on the document you have access to? A Usually she sends me the loan number. I don't know
if she puts the loan number on it or what. Q Okay. Does it appear to be handwritten or does it
appear to be part of the document? A Q I don't even know. Okay. Maybe it's handwritten on it.
Where would you look to refresh your
recollection? she sent you? A Q
Do you have any of these MERS documents that
On this file?
Not here.
No.
How about in general?
Do you have any MERS
documents that she sent you? A Q A Q Not here. No. Not in this room.
Where would they be? Probably my Simi Valley office. Okay. So you have no knowledge then as to any of Is that what you are stating?
the other MERS documents? A Q Yes. Okay.
That's what I'm stating. The only thing that you use the MERS
documents for are to look at the loan number; is that correct? A Q No. That's not correct. I --
Okay.
What else do you use them for?
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As I said, I confirm if the loans -- I don't use the You keep saying I use them. I don't use
MERS documents. them.
I confirm that the loan, if it's on Mom docs, was registered in MERS. By doing so, I contact that department
and they send me the Milestones. "Yes. Michele, it is. Here's the MERS Milestones."
"Great."
I look at it and I stick it in the file.
I don't -- I take -- I guess I take their word for it. I mean I can't say if there is a loan number on it. We
have usually a conversation. yes, it is on MERS. Q A Okay.
They look it up, and they say,
"Here is your MERS Milestone."
I mean I can't go into detail of the document. I didn't hear the question.
THE COURT REPORTER: MR. TRINZ: Q
She said let's go back to page number two. Okay. In looking at this
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
document can you tell whether this loan has been securitized? MR. TRINZ: on page two? MS. LUNDERGAN: THE WITNESS: Q Yes. Yes. Page two, Min Summary. The one that's marked Min Summary? You're
No.
I cannot tell. Okay. If you were to try to tell
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
whether a loan has been securitized, where would you look in your system?
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In our servicing system, I would look at the
investor number, the investor history. Q A Q A Q Okay. Yes. Okay. And is the loan securitized? Yes. And have you done that in this case?
It was securitized with Ginnie. Okay.
And that's not reflected in the name of the
case, is it? MR. TRINZ: Q Object to the form. In the caption of this case,
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
which reads Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., Plaintiff, versus there is no indication in that caption
that this loan is securitized, is there? A Q No. There is not.
And you stated it was securitized in -- back when it
was moved to Ginnie Mae, and when would that be? A Q A Q Back in '08. 2008? Uh-huh. Okay. I also then would like to turn you to the
interrogatories that were sent by fax. Do you have those? MR. TRINZ: think I saw them. THE WITNESS: I'm looking to see. Hold on. This? Interrogatories. I
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MR. TRINZ: looked at.
No.
Those are the document requests we just
Hang on. It was part of the initial email to you.
Right. It was notice of servicing answer to
MS. LUNDERGAN: intogs (sic). MR. TRINZ: printing. THE WITNESS: MR. TRINZ:
Well, I forwarded them to be -- for
Was --
It was four attachments; right? There was four attachments. I printed all
THE WITNESS: four. MR. TRINZ:
Okay.
Hold on.
When you sent them by email, can you tell me what that file was called? MS. LUNDERGAN: Yeah. It would have been called
Plaintiff -- it would just be "P" apostrophe "S," notice of servicing, abbreviated N-O-S, answer to intogs (sic). THE WITNESS: No. The attachment of the file -- there One that said Michele Sjolander There was
was one called P-R, S-P-D's. Endorsements.
There was one that said complaint.
one that said amended complaint. MS. LUNDERGAN: There should have been, in total, the
amended complaint, the original complaint, a set of interrogatories, a set of requests for production, and your
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endorsements. And then there was a second email with a second request for production response. THE WITNESS: I never printed it. So in total there should be four
MS. LUNDERGAN:
documents sent to your office. MR. HARVEY: This is Travis Harvey. Let me interject,
Amanda, I believe the reporter said she only received four emails. morning. MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: Yes. That's correct, Travis. I'm looking -I believe there was five with six followed up this
You have four.
MS. LUNDERGAN:
What I emailed to you, Travis, is the
same thing that was emailed to your co-counsel. MR. TRINZ: Okay. So, Travis, you got six. Those are the
MS. LUNDERGAN: six that I sent. MR. HARVEY:
Yeah.
I got them this morning a few I think the court reporter is
minutes before we started.
indicating to you -- or whoever is there -- said they received the emails. They only received four. Right. So --
MR. TRINZ:
I'm looking here -What I'm relying on is that what I didn't
MS. LUNDERGAN:
Okay.
I sent to your co-counsel is what we've got today.
realize that the court reporter had printed documents.
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MR. TRINZ:
No.
She didn't.
She didn't.
She didn't.
Travis is mistaken. MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ:
That was Michele talking. Okay.
Because I forwarded -The one email to Travis is five, and
MS. LUNDERGAN:
then one, and that's what you should have received as well. MR. TRINZ: Okay. The interrogatories were in the initial
MS. LUNDERGAN: set of five.
Travis, can you confirm that that was in that initial set of five? MR. HARVEY: I can't confirm what you sent them. I got
an email separately this morning. MR. TRINZ: I'm looking here. I forwarded what I got to
Michele for printing out.
I forwarded one email because I did Because it
not get the second one until I'm seeing it now. was as we were walking up to the office here.
So I do see plaintiff's notice of service of answers to interrogatories. MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: possible -THE WITNESS: MR. TRINZ: I only have four. So they either -Okay.
-- didn't get printed out or is it
Oh. I only have these attachments.
THE WITNESS:
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MS. LUNDERGAN: printed.
Okay.
So it looks like it didn't get
You want to take a quick break and print them? Well, how about -- can we do something else
MR. TRINZ:
and go back and do it rather than -- so we can move it along and we'll take a break in a little bit and do it? Because I'm
looking here -- I sent her whatever you sent me, except for the second email -MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: Okay.
-- which I didn't get until -- I didn't see So --
it until a few minutes ago actually. MS. LUNDERGAN:
I really would like to just finish with
it because it's going -- it's going to hinge off what we just talked about. MR. TRINZ: Okay. So I would appreciate if we could just
MS. LUNDERGAN:
print it and move through this particular subject. MR. TRINZ: off the printer? THE WITNESS: MR. TRINZ: I clipped everything that I had. Okay. All right. Is it possible to get it
Okay. So if --
All right. -- I don't have it, I don't have it.
I understand. It was one, two, three, four --
THE WITNESS:
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THE COURT REPORTER: MR. TRINZ: discussion here. No.
Are we still on the record?
Let's go off the record on this
(Off the record from 12:32 p.m. to 12:42 p.m.) Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Again, my question,
Ms. Sjolander, is did you have any discussions with your attorney during the break? A Q No. Okay. Going back to my question -- and if you can
pull the interrogatories out and get those ready. MR. TRINZ: Q We have them now. You discussed that this loan
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
was -- based on your review of the file, the loan was securitized back in 2008; correct? A Q Yes. Okay. And if we can turn to those interrogatories.
Do you have them out? MR. TRINZ: We have them. Okay. And I think we're up to -- are we
MS. LUNDERGAN:
up to Defense Exhibit 4? MR. TRINZ: Okay. Let's mark it. It starts with the
notice of service -MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: Yes.
-- and ends with the signature page on the
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back. MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: A total of 13 pages. I'm just looking at It says
I didn't count them.
the signature page by -- I can't even see who it is.
litigation specialist, notarized -- California -- California notary. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. And then the last page of
it -- it looks like I've got duplicates. MR. TRINZ: Can I mark it? Can she mark it?
MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: ready.
Mark it, please, as Defense Exhibit 4. It's been marked and the reporter is
Okay.
(Whereupon Defendants' Exhibit No. 4 was marked for Identification.) Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. Ms. Sjolander, based on
the first page, do you see the date that these responses were served appears to be November 1st, 2010? A Q A Q Yes. Was that a "Yes"? Yes. Okay. And if we could turn then to interrogatory
number nine, please, and can you take a moment and read that. And you see the response there to these interrogatories in 2010 is that there is no trust. So based on your -- your statement that this loan
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was securitized in 2008, it appears that that is an incorrect statement; correct? MR. TRINZ: I'm just going to interpose an objection She -- well, you can ask her but
generally, Amanda, on this.
it doesn't appear she had anything to do with the preparation of this or -MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: Okay.
-- submission to your office. I'm just asking her to compare the
MS. LUNDERGAN:
response in that interrogatory to what she has stated to me. I'm not -- I'm not in any ways implying she had any part in drafting this response. I'm just asking her to compare what she has told me to what the responses to this discovery were in 2010. THE WITNESS: Q Okay. So -Ms. Sjolander, comparing that,
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
does it appear that that answer is not correct? A why. One, this is 2010. The loan could have been And, two, when they Like a I cannot state that. And I'll give you two reasons
re-purchased out of the security by then.
say, "trust," are they talking about like a PSA? trust? Or a security?
I don't know how they read "trust" when they write -- when they answer this question. I was not with them.
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Okay.
Well, I will state to you that this is
talking about security, whether or not this loan has been securitized. And in your review -Amanda, let me -- hold on. -- of this file -Let me object. You are stating --
MR. TRINZ: Q
BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Hold on.
MR. TRINZ:
I know your office probably prepared these, but she was saying -- I think she was interpreting the response. You are saying -- you are giving your opinion as to what the question says; right? MS. LUNDERGAN: Yes. I just want to clarify. I'm not in any
That's correct.
way interpreting what the person who responded to these would have interpreted. MR. TRINZ: Okay. I'm just stating what our position is
MS. LUNDERGAN: here. MR. TRINZ:
Okay. Okay.
MS. LUNDERGAN: Q
So, Ms. Sjolander, you had stated that in 2008 the
loan was securitized and you knew that because you had reviewed some documents before you came here today. Was there anything in those documents that you had reviewed that would lead you to believe the loan was taken out of the trust? A Nothing. Well, in the documents that I reviewed, I
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did see a release.
And so in that sense a release to me shows I can't tell you
that it was probably taken out of the trust. the dates.
I can also say that for common foreclosure, when these loans go into foreclosure we -- and the loans go down, we'll re-purchase them out of the security, and that's to my knowledge. So unless I was on my system and able to research it right now and look to see exact, I can't stipulate that. But
I know to my knowledge usually when these go into foreclosure and there was a release, it is that the loan was released out of the security or re-purchased from the security. Q A And this -Back when this was prepared -- when this was I can say back in 2008,
prepared, I don't know what occurred.
when the loan was logged in, it was securitized under a Ginnie Mae security. Q A And that's it. And you said there was a release in the file?
Okay.
There was -- there was not -- when you say, "in the So our system
file," there was a release on our system. showed that the collateral was released. Q A Q And who was it released to?
In this case I think it was Stern. Okay.
Back in --
So it was simply -- when you say it was
released, you mean the actual physical loan was taken out of
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the vault and sent to Stern's office; correct? MR. TRINZ: Q A Object to the form. Can you answer that, please? I
BY MS. LUNDERGAN: I don't know.
Can you restate the question?
don't know what you are asking. Q Okay. You said that on your system there was a
release; correct? A Q Yes. And you believe that release was a release to David
Stern's office; correct? A Q Yes. Okay. But what you didn't say that it was a release What I'm trying to understand is when you say
from the trust.
there was a release, are you talking about a release, meaning the physical release of the document from the vault to David Stern, or are you talking about a release from the trust to another entity? A I'm showing that there was a release of the
collateral, which usually in -- in -- from my knowledge base tells me that the loan went into foreclosure and the loan was probably then re-purchased out of the trust. I cannot guarantee that without going on my system and checking. 2008 and 2010. I don't know what occurred between, you know, All I can say is there was a -- you know, when
I looked at this system, the collateral system, I could
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show -- I saw that there was a release of collateral. Q Okay. And you looked at those -- you looked at
those systems in anticipation of this deposition? A Q Yes. Okay. And have you access to those in your office
where you are today? A Yes. Okay. And I know, Mr. Trinz, you are
MS. LUNDERGAN:
going to object, but at this time I would ask if there is something there that could refresh her recollection about the time, that she would take a moment and review those documents. MR. TRINZ: objecting. MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. Then I also would ask that you No. We're not going to do that. We're
send me a copy of the documents that she used in anticipation of this deposition. MR. TRINZ: objecting. MS. LUNDERGAN: Q Okay. No. We are not going to do that. We are
So you would have to look at those documents then to
ascertain when that release was -- was executed; correct? A The system. You keep talking about documents. Yes.
I would have to look in our system. Q A Okay. Our system.
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So you would have to look in your system to find out
when that release was executed? A Q Yes. And you would have to look in your system to find
out whether that release was a release from the trust; correct? A Q Release from the security. Okay. Yes.
Versus what I stated could have been a
possibility, which was just a release of a physical note to David Stern's office; correct? A Q Yeah. Okay. Usually they happen together. But, yes.
Based on your review of the file then, do
you -- could you tell who the current owner of the loan was? A I would have to look at our commitment history and I I would have to go back
don't -- I mean I -- I don't recall. and look through this -- this loan. Q Okay.
But we're in agreement then that Countrywide So it
Home Loans Servicing, L.P., doesn't exist anymore.
would have to be someone else who would be the current owner of the loan; correct? MR. TRINZ: conclusion. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Can you answer my question or do I'm going to object. Calls for a legal
you need me to restate it? A Well, Countrywide Home Loans would be the successor
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of Bank of America Servicing, L.P. Q Okay. I'm only talking about Countrywide Home Loan They can't own this loan today because they
Servicing, L.P.
don't exist anymore; correct? A I don't know how -Object. Again, let me interpose the
MR. TRINZ:
objection and then you can answer, if you can. The objection is based on you are calling for a legal conclusion. THE WITNESS: Legally, I don't know how the entities --
how it was -- the legal entities. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. How about non-legally?
Just -- just your understanding. If Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., doesn't exist, could they still own this loan? A Well, as I said, Bank of America purchased So as its successor --
Countrywide Home Loans. Q A Q Okay.
Can you answer my question which was --
As successor --- is Countrywide Home Loans -- can I finish my
question, please? A Q If I could finish my answer. If Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., doesn't
exist anymore -- and you stated they have ceased to exist -then they couldn't be the current owner of the loan. Maybe
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another entity related to them could be the owner of the loan but Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., is not the owner of the loan today; correct? MR. TRINZ: Again, interposing the objection. You are
calling for a continuing series of legal conclusions by a non-lawyer. MS. LUNDERGAN: the question. THE WITNESS: question? MS. LUNDERGAN: I'm going to keep repeating it and he's So can I have the court Does Countrywide -- can you repeat the Okay. Please just let her respond to
going to keep stating his objections.
reporter just repeat back the question? (Whereupon the record was read as follows: "Question: If Countrywide Home
Loan Servicing, L.P., doesn't exist anymore -- and you stated they have ceased to exist -- then they couldn't be the current owner of the loan. Maybe another entity
related to them could be the owner of the loan but Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., is not the owner of the loan today; correct?")
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MR. TRINZ: of the form.
Again, I'm also going to object on the basis
THE WITNESS:
So an entity that -- of Countrywide Home
Loans that -- the successor now owns the loan to my knowledge. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: But not Countrywide Home Loans
Servicing, L.P.? A Q I do not know how legally it was set up. Okay. I'm not asking you for legally. Just within
your knowledge if there is -- if Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, L.P., does not exist -A Within my knowledge the successor of Countrywide
Home Loans, L.P., owns the loan, which is Bank of America Servicing, L.P. That's to my knowledge. I can't -- I can't
answer it any other way. Q Okay. So your -- your response is that Countrywide
Home Loan Servicing, L.P., as named, does not exist any longer; that now they are Bank of America or BAC? MR. TRINZ: Object as to the form. And you're calling
for a legal conclusion still. THE WITNESS: I don't know. I think you would have to
talk to a legal attorney to get the answer correct. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. Does your company still
execute documents to Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P.? MR. TRINZ: Object to form. I couldn't -- I don't know. To my
THE WITNESS:
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knowledge, I don't know. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. Do you receive any
letterhead from Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P.? A Q No. Are there any current employees that would call
themselves employees of just Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P.? A Q A Q I don't know. Okay. To be honest, I -Is there -- are there officers of Countrywide Home
Loan Servicing, L.P., today? A Q A Q I don't know. Okay. Who would know that information?
Somebody from our legal team. Okay. That's the only person who would know whether
or not that company still has officers? A I would -- I would assume so. I don't feel that I
should -- I have enough knowledge to be able to answer, legally, those questions. Q Okay. And who is it that you are appearing on
behalf of here today? A Q I am here for -- under Bank of America. Okay. You are not here then for Countrywide Home
Loan Servicing, L.P.?
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I am here for the endorsement that was placed under
Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P., which is -- Bank of America is representing me which is one in the same in its successor. Q America? A Q Yes. Okay. I want to go back to something we had talked So you are appearing here on behalf of Bank of
about earlier, which involves the endorsements of the note, and I guess maybe we had gone in circles and you didn't quite understand what it was I was asking, which is for the people who are putting the stamps on the promissory note, what instructions do they receive as far as what stamps to put on the note? A As I said, you would have to talk to their training I think Lori Meter would be
program and how they're trained.
best to explain their polices and procedures and how they place the endorsement chain. Q Okay. But you didn't have any oversight with
regards to when your stamp was used and which documents? A have -Q Okay. All right. So you didn't have any oversight My stamp was used on the notes. And, no, I don't
on when they were stamping the documents and which documents got stamped; correct?
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A the note. Q
Well, the note would be stamped, or an allonge to
Okay.
And did you have any oversight as to which
particular loans got stamped with your endorsement? A I knew that fundings that came in through the Yes. I did
custodian were stamped with my endorsement stamp. know. Q Okay.
And on a daily basis did you tell them which
ones were able to be stamped with your endorsement? A Q A Q No. They used the power of attorney.
How about -- can you repeat that? No. They had a power of attorney. So once you executed the power of attorney,
Okay.
you really didn't have any oversight as far as what documents they stamped or which promissory -- I'm sorry. rephrase. Once you executed the power of attorney, you didn't have any oversight as to which promissory notes they stamped; correct? A Q Correct. Okay. Mr. Trinz, can I have you state for the Let me
record on behalf of who you are appearing here today? MR. TRINZ: I'm here as counsel for Bank of America. Okay. You are not counsel for
MS. LUNDERGAN:
Countrywide Home Loan Servicing, L.P.?
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MR. TRINZ:
I'm not answering anything else and you
can -- you want to take my deposition some time, that's fine. MS. LUNDERGAN: So you are refusing to tell me who you
are appearing here on behalf of? MR. TRINZ: I just told you. Okay. Is that the only party you are
MS. LUNDERGAN:
appearing here on behalf of today? MR. TRINZ: Well, Ms. Sjolander, to the extent she's an
individual witness, as opposed to a corporate representative, so, yes, I'll be representing her as well. MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. So your appearance here today is
related solely to Bank of America and to Ms. Sjolander in her individual capacity; correct? I just want to clarify who it
is you are appearing here on behalf of. MR. TRINZ: I've answered it already. Okay. We'll take it as an affirmative. I already
Take it however you want.
answered the question. MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: Okay. Thank you.
You're welcome. Let me see if -- I have just a few more
MS. LUNDERGAN:
follow-up questions and then we'll be done here. Q Back to those interrogatories that were signed. If
we could pull those back out. down.
I don't know if you set them
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MR. TRINZ: Q
They're right here in front of us. Ms. Sjolander, do you ever
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
execute interrogatories on behalf of Bank of America or Countrywide? A I've executed a declaration. I'm not sure if it's
one and the same. Q Okay. Do you ever remember answering
interrogatories in your capacity at Bank of America or Countrywide? A I could have been asked a question. I wouldn't have
known if it was an interrogatory or not. Q Okay. But you don't -- you don't specifically
remember signing any interrogatories? A Q No. Okay. Do you know the person who signed the
interrogatories in this case "Reeza R. Samedian"? A Q No. Okay. Do you know which department executes
interrogatories? A Q group? A Q located? I do not know. Okay. And where the is the litigation group I think our litigation group. Okay. And how many people are in the litigation
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A Q A Q
I do not know. Okay. It's not in your office in California? I --
They could be.
You have -- have you ever had any interaction with
the litigation department? A Q Just when cases like this come up. Okay. And in your interaction what are the names of
the people you've been involved with? A don't -Q Okay. And from those emails you don't know where I don't know offhand. I mean they're emails. I
the people are located? A forth. Q No. We usually talk on the phone or email back and
I don't go to their offices. Okay. You'll see on this, if you can turn to the
interrogatories, that "Reeza R. Samedian" signed this as a litigation specialist. Do you know what that means? A Q No. Okay. Is there anywhere in your handbook that we
discussed earlier that would define what that title means? A Q Not that I'm aware of. Okay. So does Bank of America have any sort of
documents that defines people's positions? A Yes.
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Okay.
And where are those documents?
Are those
similar to the documents we discussed earlier that are on-line? A Yeah. You could go into human resources and look at Is that what you are asking?
job descriptions. Q Yeah.
Would there be some sort of manual or some
sort of document that would describe what each position entails? A I don't know. It's a manual. There are job
descriptions that describes people's jobs. Q A Q Is it written or is it on-line? Isn't that the same? Well, is there a paper copy or is it only an
electronic copy? A Oh, I've only witnessed it electronically or you
could print it. Q Okay. Is there only one manual for all of Bank of
America or is it divided up into several? A They said these are job descriptions. They're not
manuals that we're talking about here. Q Are these job descriptions all located in one
electronic location or are they divided up in separate locations? A It's in one location. You can look at various jobs
and the job descriptions that go with it.
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Okay.
And if I were to ask for something like that,
what would I ask for if I were to ask, you know, human resources? A Q A job description. A job description, is that what I would ask for? A
job description for a litigation specialist? A Q A Q That's what I would call it. Okay. It's not known by anything else?
Not that I'm aware of. Okay. Is there ever a time when the endorsements
are executed after they're received by either Bank of America or Countrywide? You had stated earlier that they were imaged
almost simultaneously with -- or they were endorsed -- I'm sorry. Let me rephrase. You had stated earlier that they were endorsed almost simultaneously with receiving the collateral file and the imaging. Is there ever a time when an endorsement would be executed some time after that? later? MR. TRINZ: Object to form. I couldn't answer that. I mean there For instance, months or years
THE WITNESS:
could be a deficiency -- from what I stated that there is two different processes. So I don't know what process you are
referring to back in '08 or our current process.
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BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
Okay.
Well, let's talk about the
2008 process. Back in the 2008 process was there ever a time when an endorsement would be added months or years after you received the note? A If the -- if the collateral -- I mean in this case So that So part
the collateral was reviewed without a deficiency.
ensures that there was an endorsement placed on it. of the review process -Q Okay.
So that would be one of the things that they
would look for in 2008 when they were reviewing the collateral file -- I'm sorry -- would be the endorsement? A Yes. First, I'm going to object to form. Second,
MR. TRINZ:
you interrupted her answer.
So you talked over her so the If you can let her
reporter did not get part of her answer. finish.
If you can remember what you were answering. THE WITNESS: process. MR. TRINZ: Q Okay. Okay. And how about today? Is I was saying it was part of the review
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
that part of the review process to check for the endorsements? A Q Yes. Okay. And are any notes made when a review is done
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of the file? A You would have to talk to Lori Meter or how they --
if there is a deficiency found, a deficiency is noted in our system. Q I'm not sure what you mean by "notes made." Okay. For instance, if I was the person in 2008 who
was doing a review of the file, would I make a note that the endorsements were present or would I only make a notation if there were no endorsements? A To my knowledge you would only make a -- you would
only make a note or place a -- place a deficiency if there was no endorsements so that we knew that we had to go place endorsements. Q A Okay. However, that's to my knowledge. You would -- to I'm not sure.
get the -- there could be other circumstances. In that department -Q
You think Lori Meter would be the person who would
know that type of information? A Q Yes. And Lori Meter, you had stated, was with the company She was -- she was the person who would have
back in 2008.
that information? A Q Yes. Okay. But you said today you're not sure what
exactly her job -- her job entails today?
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Well, her job -- yeah.
I mean her job has changed
as all of ours have. Q Okay. But you think, still today, Lori Meter would
be the person who would know what kind of notes are made when the file is reviewed? A Q Yes. Okay. Do you have any reason to believe that the
promissory note in this case has ever been lost? A Q Nope. And your reason or your basis for stating that is
because there were no notes in the system that the note had ever been lost? A There were no notes in our collateral deficiency I did not look at the
system that the note has been lost.
servicing system to see if there was any notes on the servicing system. Q Okay. And when these documents are transferred to
the attorney for foreclosure, is there any notation made of what documents are transferred? A Well, the collateral. You know, what was in the
collateral file was transferred. Q Okay. So the note would be that the collateral file
was transferred to the attorney? A You would have to talk to Lori Meter. I'm not sure
how they notate their system.
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Okay.
To your knowledge if -- if something was
missing from the collateral file when it was sent to the attorney, would a note have been made of that? A Once again, you would have to speak with the
custodian with regards to their practices and how they notate the systems. Q Okay. You have no knowledge of how they notate the
system or what information is relayed in the collateral files of the attorney? A Q Correct. Okay. I want to go back really quick to why you no
longer -- why they are no longer using your stamp to endorse notes. You had said that you had left because you had a heart attack; is that correct? MR. TRINZ: It's all been asked and answered, Amanda.
You went into it and she answered it. MS. LUNDERGAN: Q Okay.
Were there any other reasons why they stopped using
your particular stamp? A I was out on leave at that time. I cannot comment
on the change. Q A Q You can't comment on it because you don't know? Correct. I was not here. I was not involved.
So you went -- or they stopped using your stamp;
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correct? A Right. I was not involved in the conversations
about the -Q stamp? A Q stamp"? A Q A Q Yes. And who was that person? Joan Martinez who works for me. Now, who is that in relation to you? Is that your When I came back from leave. Someone just told you, "Hey, we stopped using your So how did you find out they stopped using your
supervisor? A Q A Q you. Why would she be the person who informed you that your stamp was no longer being used? A Because after I went out on leave, she was No. She reports to me.
Who is it? Joan Martinez. Yeah. And why -- sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt
responsible for notifying that I was leaving -- out on leave and that, you know, that we wanted to halt my stamp being used at that time that I was not here. Q Okay. Is there a policy that if you are on leave
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that they can't use your stamp? A Q No. There is not. So why was it that, because you were on
Okay.
leave, they were no longer going to use your stamp? A Well, for one, at that time I don't think that they I -- I can't -We changed
knew my capacity of when I was coming back. it was all hearsay. our practice. I was out.
I was not here.
I -- when I came back from leave, I was
notified of the change of practice by Joan Martinez who reports to me. It was her job. She took over a lot of what
my duties at that time.
And it was -- Lori Meter instructed
her the practice is changing. Q Okay. And you said the practice was changed. What
do you mean when you say their practice changed? A Well, the note is now being endorsed upon arrival So when the collateral is imaged, it has
prior to imaging.
the endorsement chain on it. MR. TRINZ: Again, asked and answered previously. You
already asked her this. Q you done? MR. TRINZ: Q stamp? A Because the custodian is no longer using the stamp. Uh-huh. I'm done. Why would that impact using your BY MS. LUNDERGAN: So why would that affect -- are
BY MS. LUNDERGAN:
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Bank of America employees are now using the stamp as it arrives into the imaging plant. Q A Okay. -- it changed our practice. In other words, a power So it --
of attorney did not need to be used because another entity was not applying the stamp. Bank of America associates were
applying the stamp at the time it arrived into the imaging vault area. Q A It was not --
And how long -I was not finished. It was not in the custodian's possession.
Q A Q change?
Okay.
And how long has that change been in effect?
I think since March or April of last year. And do you know the reason why they made that
MR. TRINZ:
Asked and answered several times. As I said, I was out on leave. I was not
THE WITNESS:
privy to those discussions. Q BY MS. LUNDERGAN: Okay. And you haven't heard any
information since you've been back of why they made those changes? A They wanted to have the -- from what my knowledge is
they wanted to make sure the endorsement chain was on imaging. It was a good change. Q That now --
Why do you --
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Because now if you look on imaging you can see the Whereas --
endorsement chain. Q
And so now you said Bank of America employees are
executing the endorsements? A Q Yes. And who are those Bank of America employees? Are
they a specific department? A Q A Q A Q I'm sure it is. Do you know the name of that department? It's in post-closing. No.
Is Lori Meter part of the post-closing now? No. So Lori Meter is not involved in endorsing the
promissory notes? A I don't know if she still -- I don't think so. No.
I'm not involved in that practice anymore because it's not my stamps being used. before. Q A Q Okay. You would have to talk to the new area. Was there any written notification that went out to I think I answered this same answer
Bank of America employees when that policy took effect? A Q Not to my knowledge. Is there any written policy in place now about Bank
of America employees endorsing the promissory notes?
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As I said, it is no longer in the scope of my You would have to talk to the new
department or any groups.
department and the new area of what their policies and procedures in training was. Q How about in the scope of your knowledge? In the
scope of your knowledge is there a current policy regarding the endorsing of promissory notes by Bank of America employees? A Q I do not know. You -- okay. I think that concludes it.
Do you have anything you would like to ask, Mr. Trinz? MR. TRINZ: No. Okay. Are you guys going to read?
Yes. Where do I send it? The original?
THE COURT REPORTER: MR. TRINZ:
The original.
I guess typically send it to
the witness and I'm going to order a copy. THE COURT REPORTER: when she's done? MR. TRINZ: Well, let's see. That's a good question. Where does she send the original
You can send it to you; right? THE COURT REPORTER: MR. TRINZ: Yeah. Can we go off the record?
Let's go off the record.
(Whereupon the deposition concluded at 1:18 p.m.)
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DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY
I, MICHELE SJOLANDER, do hereby certify under penalty of perjury that I have read the foregoing transcript of my deposition taken on Wednesday, March 14, 2012; that I have made such corrections as appear noted on the Deposition Errata Page, attached hereto, signed by me; that my testimony as contained herein, as corrected, is true and correct.
Dated this ___ day of ______, 2012, at __________________________________________, California.
______________________ MICHELE SJOLANDER
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DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET Page No. ______ Line No. ______ Change: ______________________________________________________ Reason for Change: ___________________________________________ Page No. ______ Line No. ______ Change: ______________________________________________________ Reason for Change: ___________________________________________ Page No. ______ Line No. ______ Change: ______________________________________________________ Reason for Change: ___________________________________________ Page No. ______ Line No. ______ Change: ______________________________________________________ Reason for Change: ___________________________________________ Page No. ______ Line No. ______ Change: ______________________________________________________ Reason for Change: ___________________________________________ Page No. ______ Line No. ______ Change: ______________________________________________________ Reason for Change: ___________________________________________ Page No. ______ Line No. ______ Change: ______________________________________________________ Reason for Change: ___________________________________________
____________________________ MICHELE SJOLANDER
_________________ Dated
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STATE OF CALIFORNIA COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
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I, Julee Sokol, Certified Shorthand Reporter, do hereby certify: That prior to being examined, the witness in the foregoing proceedings was by me duly sworn to testify to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; That said proceedings were taken before me at the time and place therein set forth and were taken down by me in shorthand and thereafter transcribed into typewriting under my direction and supervision; I further certify that I am neither counsel for, nor related to, any party to said proceedings, not in anywise interested in the outcome thereof. In witness whereof, I have hereunto subscribed my name.
Dated:
Sunday, March 25, 2012
____________________________ Julee Sokol CSR No. 11319

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1

DEPOSITION OF MICHELE SJOLANDER Wednesday, March 14, 2012 10:07 a.m.

4500 Park Granada Calabasas, California

REPORTED BY: Julee Sokol CSR No. 11319

INDEX TO EXAMINATION WITNESS: MICHELE SJOLANDER

EXAMINATION By Ms. Lundergan

INDEX TO EXHIBITS WITNESS: MICHELE SJOLANDER

Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, L.P. vs. et al.

Wednesday, March 14, 2012 Julee Sokol, CSR No. 11319

MARKED Exhibit 1 Exhibit 2 Exhibit 3

CALABASAS, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, MARCH 14, 2012; 10:07 A.M.

You are just here to observe.

I'm not making that stipulation.

But you both are going to be conducting

is Jeff Trinz in -- with -- with Michele.

I just want to make sure he's not going to be

MS. LUNDERGAN: MR. TRINZ: No.

Michele, do you understand everything that I've said

as far as the instructions? A Yes.

Michele, you have been deposed before;

companies you have been an officer for.

Countrywide Home Loans. Countrywide Home Loans, Inc.? Countrywide. Yes.

We'll turn it up a little bit. I'll try to turn my

MS. LUNDERGAN: volume up too.

It's very faint.

THE COURT REPORTER:

Off the record.

And then you work for Bank of

Countrywide. Q And can you tell me those different entities that

recollection of that? A I would have to go back through years of history

As an officer. Q Okay. But were you actually a named officer of the

corporation? A I was a named officer of Countrywide, yes.

And what was your title as an officer of Countrywide

successor is/was Bank of America, L.P., Servicing L.P. Q A Correct. Yes.

And we noticed your deposition today as an officer

Does it have a title? A Q A Q No. It's my own writing.

What about in 2009?

Was it the same job

responsibilities that you have today? A Q A Q A No. I had more.

You just listed what you do currently today in your

Did you receive any training in doing the jobs

Variety of different classes.

Was any of the training that you received in the

But you are familiar with MERS itself? Yes.

I know what MERS is. Okay.

Does anyone in your department have access to

officer of MERS? A I would think so. Yes.

Can you tell me who those people would be?

And how many people are in that MERS

MERS department? you use her for? A

If I had questions regarding a MERS Milestone or if

I do not know what a Min audit is.

Tell me that just again.

wasn't clear what she said. A Q A Yes. Okay. M-o-m Docs.

And what is that?

The documents are on -- are on MERS documentation

Those are the docs, documents, that the borrower has

in connection with the MERS. instrument. docs. Q A Q

They're the note, the security

And they are on what we call Mom docs, M-o-m

open-ended. Q Okay. Did you have -- are you -- do you currently

Any other companies that I haven't listed that you

Just collateral-related documents and execution of

So anything with Fannie, Freddie,