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SCOTT My name is Scott Clark. I am an ordained minister/Teaching Elder in the PCUSA. I am also married to Jeff, my partner of 13 years.

Redwoods Presbytery is one of several presbyteries that have sent you two overtures. I urge you to recommend both. As you heard, the AI will offer immediate relief to pastors who want to serve all their people. At the same time, the constitutional amendment starts the long-term process of amending the constitution to recognize the full dignity of all families. Both an AI and an amendment are needed. Im here today to talk about the harm that the current policies of the church continue to do to LGBT people and our families all in the name of Jesus Christ. The harm has to stop. Over the past 6 years, Ive had the honor of representing Presbyterian pastors who have been charged with celebrating the marriages of same-gender couples. As marriage became legal in a number of states, these couples came to their pastor and asked their pastor to celebrate their marriage with them and with their families. The current policies of the church insist that the pastor tell these couples No, and that the pastor turn these couples and these families away from the church. This is cruel. This is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ not to mention abundant provisions of the Book of Order that mandate inclusion and full participation in the life of the church for everyone. I have argued the last three marriage cases before the General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission the GAPJC. In each of those cases, these pastors and these couples have testified as to the importance of marriage in our lives. And throughout those cases judicial commissions and individual commissioners have called on this body, the General Assembly, to stop this cycle of harm and amend the Constitution. In fact, one judicial commissioner even

apologized to the same-gender couples on behalf of the church for the harm that the church is doing in the name of Jesus Christ through its current policies. This year, when the GAPJC affirmed the conviction of Rev. Dr. Jane Spahr, 6 of the 15 Commissioners spoke out strongly against the courts decision. They point out that the current policies of the church treat LGBT people like we are somehow children of a lesser God. They have said that the second-class treatment of LGBT people shows the hypocrisy of the church as the church claims to include all, but then excludes LGBT people from the pastoral care of the church in marriage. 7 of the 15 members of the GAPJC have implored this General Assembly to amend the Constitution. The Constitution must be amended because it is harming real people and real lives. In these disciplinary proceedings, heres what the testifying same-gender couples have said: For us for same-gender couples marriage is a sacred vow of commitment, a covenant between the two of us, and with our community that brings God into our marriage where God resides as a part and parcel of our marriage and family. Marriage is a part of how we form family, and how we raise children. Our marriages stand in continuity with the marriages of our parents and our grandparents. And yet, under the current policies of the church, the PCUSA treats us like second-class citizens, and insists that pastors turn us away from the church when we seek to be married. Please stop this cycle of harm. The Gospel of Jesus Christ insists that the church welcome all people into the full life of community without discrimination. I urge you to recommend that the General Assembly amend the Constitution to more fully reflect the expansive welcome of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

DAVID I am . . Sexual orientation for straight people is the capacity for romantic love and giving of self. Its not just about sexual attraction and behavior. As a part of who we are, we are attracted to another person, can build a meaningful relationship with them and become a family. Family is not about sex, it is about relationship and that makes it dependent upon having a companion or spouse. The consequence of the traditional interpretation of the Bible is that, while straight people are told to avoid lust, casual relationships, and promiscuity, gay people are told to avoid all romantic relationships. Though capable of and desirous of loving relationships they are told that even lifelong, committed relationships would be sinful, because their sexual orientation is broken. They are told that they will never have a romantic bond that will be celebrated by their community and that they will never have a family. So a gay person who finds someone they grow to love and want to spend the rest of their life with, is told, following the traditional interpretation, that their only choice would be to walk away with a broken heart and retreat into isolation, alone. This would not be a single incident but one doomed to be repeated throughout their life. Within the traditional interpretation of Scripture, falling in love is one of the worst things that could happen to a gay person. Two problems present themselves with that broken traditional interpretation. First: In Matthew 7 Jesus warns against false teachers, and he offers a principle to test good teaching from bad teaching. By their fruit, you will recognize them, he says. Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. Good teachings are not destructive to human dignity, dont lead to emotional and spiritual devastation, and loss of self-esteem and self-worth. But this is the consequence for gay people with the traditional teaching on homosexuality. It has

not borne good fruit in their lives, and has caused them much pain and suffering. Taking Jesus seriously, that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, we should question whether the traditional teaching is correct. The second problem comes from Genesis; the creation of Adam and Eve. In the beginning, God created a man and a woman, and two men or two women would be a deviation from that design. But, this story deserves closer attention. In the first two chapters of Genesis, God creates the heavens and the earth, and everything in them, declaring them to be either good or very good except for one thing. In Genesis 2:18, God says, It is not good for the man to be alone. God makes Eve for Adam. And a woman is a suitable partner for the vast majority of men for straight men, but not for gay men. For gay men, its another gay man who is a suitable partner. For a lesbian woman, it is another lesbian woman. The necessary consequence of the traditional teaching on homosexuality is that, even though gay people have suitable partners, they must reject them, live alone for their whole life, without a spouse or a family of their own. We are now declaring good the very first thing in Scripture that God declared not good. By holding to the traditional interpretation, we are now contradicting the Bibles own teachings: that it is not good for the man to be forced to be alone, and teaching that it is.

MYRA I am Myra Kazanjian, a teaching elder from Utica. We recognize the civil unions of same-gender couples. We permit pastoral care and certain worship services for committed same-gender couples. But some faithful Christians are uncomfortable with calling these relationships marriage. They are like marriage in every sense of the wordexcept they involve same gender couples. They provide all the same benefits as the ancient marriage rites of our Hebrew ancestors. They provide for the birth and nurture of children. They provide compassionate mutual support and affection for each party. These unions are an economic partnership and can link families together for their mutual benefit. So why cant we call these relationships marriage? Is it our differing understandings of scripture? As Presbyterians, we believe that the Spirit constantly leads us to new insights. Is it our human judgments of others? Jesus taught that we are all in the same boat. No one of us is greater or less in Gods eyes. Is it that some of us have no personal experience with loving same-gender couples that might allow them to see the beauty of such relationships? We as a denomination need to stop lobbying grenades at each other and return to our essential mission of sharing Christ with the world. Yes, the passage of this amendment will upset some of us. But real people are being hurt now, particularly LGBT youth. LGBT youth are less likely to describe themselves as happy. They are

more likely to be bullied. Who else but the church of Jesus Christ should reach out to them? Knowing that people of God accept them just as they are will make a difference to them, and to their loved ones, we can be sure. A pastor from my Presbytery wrote: We are all trying to discern Gods word for us. And as surely as we are all unique creations of the loving God, we will each of us disagree from time to time. Put if we profess to call all people to Christ, to proclaim Gods love for us in worship, to guarantee full participation in worship to all persons, we must give teaching elders and sessions the discretion to choose, according to their conscience, to recognize the covenant of Christian marriage for two people of the same gender just as we allow teaching elders and sessions the discretion to choose otherwise. To do anything else denies one group within our membership the opportunity to fully worship God.

ANDREW My name is Andrew Stehlik and I was ordained as minister of Word and Sacrament in the Reformed Church in the Czech Republic, in a denomination with roots that go back to the Husite reformation of 1415, a full century before Martin Luther. Reformation theology and its heritage are very important for me. The Book of Order of the Presbyterian Church USA clearly states that: Marriage is a civil contract. This statement about the civil nature of marriage goes back to the time of the Reformation and was an integral part of the reformation struggle for the spiritual freedom and the autonomy of individuals from the overreaching and over-controlling medieval church. The Reformers unequivocally declared marriage to be a civil contract and not a sacrament. For instance John Calvin in his Institutes (Book IV) says, Marriage is a good and holy ordinance of God. Just as agriculture, architecture, shoemaking, and shaving, are lawful ordinances of God; but they are not sacraments. (endquote) The Reformers rightly recognized that the Roman Catholic Church made marriage into sacrament in order to exercise power and control over society and over the lives of individuals, even on this very personal and intimate level. Calvin called this church control tyranny; Luther called it the Babylonian Captivity of the Church. Reformation theologians were quite clear that marriage did not belong under the direct jurisdiction of the church. The Reformation did indeed open the space for the autonomy of the secular and individual. The Reformers recognized the universal importance of marriage, which was and remains a broader institution than any church or any religion.

For the Reformers there was no such category as Christian Marriage; such a category would undermine the universal nature and value of this institution. As Protestants we can speak about the marriages of Christian(s) or of marriages conducted by Christian ministers, or marriages sealed within the bounds of Christian congregations. In our protestant ethos, the institution of marriage is ultimately shaped and formed by individual couples and regulated by any given society and their appropriate civil authorities. As the civil authorities of many states broadened the realm of freedom and expanded the rights to marry to same gender couples, it is precisely in the spirit of Reformation to allow pastors and congregations in these states to treat marriages in a similar and equal manner. I am worried that a mistaken and narrow interpretation of a few sentences in the worship section of Book of Order are being used to seduce the church back to Babylonian Captivity of sacramental tyranny, in another attempt to exercise inappropriate ecclesiastical authority over individual lives.

LARA I am Lara Marsh, a ruling elder from the Presbytery of East Iowa. Think of a word or phrase that best describes Christianity for you. <pause> For us, one word might be generous, giving, loving, or a phrase might be taking care of the weak, preaching the gospel, or merciful and gracious. However, according to marketing research firm The Barna Group, the word that best describes Christianity for Americans between the ages of 16 and 29 was antihomosexual. Researcher David Kinnamon states, 59 percent of young adults with a Christian background have left the church (and one of the top reasons) is because they perceive the church to be too exclusive, particularly regarding their LGBT friends. Eight million twenty-somethings have left the church, and this is one reason why. (endquote) Contrary to what the extremist media might portray, this is not a liberal vs. conservative topic. From my own home state of Iowa, evangelical Christian Republican Kathy Potts says, I know many people who hold conservative values like equality and freedom If it werent for the loud voices of a few in our party, I do believe more Republicans would stand up in support of marriage equality. I didnt always feel that way One of the things that changed my mind (was watching my kids). They love and support their friends, regardless of their sexual orientation, race, gender or religion. Then I realized that I was tired of watching adults judge each other while my children could embrace the

differences in their friends. After all, that is what being a Christian is all about (endquote) The churchs position on same-gender marriage has been self-contradictory. Some within the church deny loving, committed same-gender couples the right to marry and at the same time make accusations of promiscuity. Meanwhile, heterosexual couples can get married and then divorced in a matter of hours. These overtures allow all of us to exercise freedom that resonates with everyone from youth to seniors, liberal to conservative, privileged to disenfranchised. These overtures emphasize trust of local sessions and teaching elders to make decisions about what is right for them in their time and in their place. They do not force anyone to do anything. In 2011, 3.8% of the U.S. population self-identified themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender. Many would argue that this self-identification number is much lower than reality, and it does seem like a small percentage for all this fuss. Maybeuntil you hear that only 2.1% of the U.S. population self-identified themselves as Presbyterian. That number is from 2008 and it has been dwindling for decades. 50 years from now, there will still be LGBT persons but will there still be Presbyterians? I agree with Christian writer and speaker Rachel Held Evans who says: We are tired of fighting, tired of vain efforts to advance the Kingdom through politics and power tired of being known for what we are against, not what we are for. We are ready to stop waging war and start washing feet.

RAY We all care about our families and one another. We care about our denomination and its churches. We do our best to be faithful, to love our God with all our hearts and all our might; loving each other in the same way. We strive to witness this to all, welcoming those who will into our midst. We, too, as Presbyterians have a long history in hospitality and courage, shattering the limitations of fear and change. The Evangelist Paul tells us, that for anyone who is in Christ, there is new creation. The old order has passed away (been shattered), now everything is new. And, in this new time we ask you to do two things that call upon courage of faith and the hospitality of our tradition: First, to send pastors forth from this assembly with the immediate relief of an Authoritative Interpretation of W-9.4000 to marry couples in states where same gender marriage is legal and (2) recommend to the plenary an amendment for ratification, adjusting the wording in W-9.4000 of our constitution, assuring that the covenant of all loving couples may be recognized equally. Friends, this is about our family. Our baptized sisters and brothers. Christians. Presbyterians. This is about us and whose we are. In 2005, I was ordained as an openly gay man. In the first fourteen months of my very first call I performed sixteen memorial services. No one asked me if I were gay, they asked me questions about how they were going to be able to live without their loved one, how they would take care of family members, or how they knew -- really knew their loved one was in Gods hands.

I was their pastor. Never did I see any one of them as anything other than a full member of the church. Nor did they see me as anyone other than their pastor who loved and cared for them. Friends, this is not about being gay. This is about who we are as Christians and the family God has created us to be. Weve taken such powerful steps of witness many times before in our history, not shying away from just causes because they were controversial: We came to welcome both women and men to ordination; we now welcome and install pastors who have a same gender spouse; we call qualified candidates to teaching and ruling elder who identify as LGBT. We change faithfully -and we need to change faithfully, once more. As states legalize marriage, teaching elders are being asked by same gender loving couples who are among our members, family, friends, to be their pastor and officiate at their marriage. We are called now to widen the circle of love in Christ in this new and exciting time of Gods great Love and Abundant welcome. We are being called to step up to Gods call, as Presbyterians know how to do. Thank you for hearing us and God bless you all.

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